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Author Topic: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?  (Read 19481 times)

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Offline RunningRoot

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3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« on: December 17, 2014, 06:43:00 PM »
After the last breakdown and really looking into the health of my c4d's dorset, I started making a few calls.
Come to find out, a really good friend of mine has several 353 and 453 engines laying around his machine shop.

The 3-53 only has 790 original hours on it. Complete engine. $900.00

The 4-53 has 1,100 hours on it. Complete engine. $1,000.00

Both engines come with a whole other complete parts engine as well ( one good runner and one non runner for spare parts )
#2-#3 bell housings, so whichever one I need.

The dorset in my c4d is running, *for now* but may not for long.
Figured I'd swap one of the Detroit's In after i get done with the current track I'm cutting.

Which one would you put in her ? 353 or 453 ?
Would the 453 fit u think ?
And problems mounting the transmission with the proper bellhousing ? Pilot bearing, clutch and such ?

I was told the only difference between a c4d and c5d is the winch,axles and engine.
I was told the c4d's had a 353 at some point, any truth to that ? Figured it would be an easy swap if they came with a 353. 
 
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

Offline loggah

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2014, 06:50:02 PM »
If you want to stress test your running gear you could put a 4-53 in it !!! the 3-53 would fit ,but you better make sure the rotation is right.personally i think a 4 cylinder Cummins would be the way to go.
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Offline RunningRoot

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2014, 07:06:56 PM »
When u say make sure the rotation is right, do you mean the actual rotation of the engine ?
My dorset is only 80HP so the 3-53 would be plenty and an upgrade at 130HP
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

Offline eichenberg93

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2014, 07:23:03 PM »
x2 what loggah said- the 3-53 would be the better choice if those are your only two options another thing would be if there is enough room for a 4-53. between both skidders we have I would take the cummins any day due to the noise ;) but parts wise the Detroit is cheaper to get parts for. 

Offline OntarioAl

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2014, 07:27:59 PM »
I  second loggah's comments.
Detroit diesels were built to be either clockwise or counter clock wise rotation to satisfy the requirements of the end user.
Al
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Offline David-L

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2014, 08:42:58 PM »
my brother has a C5 Tree farmer with a 353 and small planetaries. seems to do just fine. I believe Lumberjack 48 called it a pulpwood special. I think a 353 is around 90 hp.



 
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Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2014, 10:58:33 PM »
 The 353 came in so many varietys its hard to list them all. check rotation,and look the engine over and see how hard its going to be to couple the fuel and coolant. Your pump runs off the crank ? I would sit down and figure out if you wanna keep the machine or run and dump. a 4BT conversion is probably 5k guessing by the time you track everything down.
 The 353 in a Jack forwarder is a touch diff, gear train is set up special, they call it a "stationary powerplant engine", and because of my luck it had the old style gears on the back end which was the last set Swentons had. The 4BT will walk circles around a 353 for torque, my forwarder is a dog, if i wast pressed when i did mine it would have gotten a 4BTA or 4.5 powertech.

Offline HiTech

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2014, 02:17:16 AM »
Perhaps you could find a farm tractor engine to fit. Ford, John Deere, Perkins, etc. You really don't need more than 70 or 80 hp. in a C4. If you juice them up to much things start breaking...like planetary gears and axles. I saw a Dorsett for sale not long ago on Craigslist...I believe either Glens Falls or Albany New York area. It was $1,400. Either under Farm Equipment or Heavy Equipment. A C4 has a shorter nose than a C5. Something that will fit in a C5 may not fit in a C4. If it were me and I could find one I would have a 4 cylinder air cooled Deutz. I have seen many in used Military Equipment such as air compressors or generators with very few hours on them scarped out because of age. Sometimes you can buy the whole pice for little or nothing. A, D 914 L4 is 78 HP., A perfect C4 motor. Just my quarters worth...Good Luck whatever you do.

Offline Corley5

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2014, 07:17:42 AM »
X2 on the Deutz.  They're a good tough engine and best of all no liquid coolant system to maintain  :) :)
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Offline RunningRoot

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2014, 07:29:24 AM »
My dorset is just to hard to get parts for. Everything, and I mean everything has to be ordered online or over the phone from the UK, or I have to deal with a joke of a company. Went to rebuild it once already but I was sent a kit for the ford 2711 instead of 2701e.

A Cummings would be my dream swap into the old girl but I know it would be really pricy.
The rest of the skidder is in good working order and have faith it will last a good bit.

I managed to pull the head in less than 30 minutes and it took me less than an hour to install it, torque everything to spec and adjust the valves... easiest engine I've ever worked on. 
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

Offline mad murdock

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2014, 07:35:36 AM »
What year is your TF? The best combo for a C4 IMO, is a Deutz.  For the money tho your buddy has a deal that is pretty good, if the rotation is correct.
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Offline OntarioAl

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2014, 08:38:10 AM »
RunningRoot
I have a long history of running Detroits in the  logging business, at one time I had 4 (2-53,3-53,4-53 and a 6V92). That being said Detroits have had their day and I for one would not go through the aggravation of retro fitting a 3-53 into a C4 with the end result a very loud fuel thirsty machine. The neighbours in my area let subtly let me know that they knew I am running my machine.
My 230 with a 3-53 will not be overhauled or replaced with another Detroit when the time comes it will get a Cummins. It will be more fuel efficient, a lot quieter and an improved resale value.
My thoughts
Al





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Offline treeslayer2003

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2014, 08:40:20 AM »
what a deal! the 353 is around 80 unless its turboed. or just send it to me  ;D

Offline drlewis

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2014, 11:25:46 AM »
my c4 was upgraded to a 3.9 cummins turbo. it fits in there nice ,lots of power and great on fuel.its  cold blooded i plug it to a generator for half hr and it takes off. the man i got the c4 from got a bread del van and took the motor out of it.

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2014, 11:51:16 AM »
Ebay has them, and a few of these engine trader sites, also look on Machinerytrader.com for pulled engines or call a few of the boneyards that list a parts machine, you may luck out and find something complete.

Offline RunningRoot

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2014, 07:30:02 PM »
Bargemonkey,

Do you mean the dorset or the cummins?

You guys may,just may be talking me into the cummins. I like my c4d,just big enough and just small enough at the same time. I'm just wanting to pull wood and quite worrying about when the dorset engine in it is gonna take it's next dump...

The only thing about the cummins is, that every Joe shmoe that has one thinks theirs is worth 5 grand when it looks like they dug it out of a creekbed 😁
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

Offline pineywoods

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2014, 08:39:19 PM »
If you are interested in a 4 cyl duetz, check out the craigs list etc in arkansas and mississippi. The rice farming areas have lots of them driving irrigation pumps, running full throttle for days on end, completely un-attended.
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Offline bushmechanic

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2014, 08:57:02 PM »
Well I guess I'm going to be the odd man out here in this discussion. I'd go with the 353 in a C4 as the 453 would be too long to shoehorn in there, and too much power. I have used forwarders with everything from Detroit Diesel 353's, Perkin's 1006, Cummins 4BT's, John deere 4045t and 6068's. But the most enduring was the 353. When you pushed the starter button in the morning you knew you were going to work for the day. If you want clean and quiet don't get it, if you want to haul wood then get it. You know if it's quiet you are looking for put a gasser in.... only for the chains and chokers you'll never be heard in the woods. I got a 250 chev in a TJ 201 and that works great. If you get a Cummins 4BT try and get the 125 HP engine the older ones lack power.

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2014, 10:16:39 PM »
Bargemonkey,

Do you mean the dorset or the cummins?

You guys may,just may be talking me into the cummins. I like my c4d,just big enough and just small enough at the same time. I'm just wanting to pull wood and quite worrying about when the dorset engine in it is gonna take it's next dump...

The only thing about the cummins is, that every Joe shmoe that has one thinks theirs is worth 5 grand when it looks like they dug it out of a creekbed 😁
The cummins. You start looking around and they are there. Call Schafers in wolf creek, Delk may have a machine for salvage with one, when i hunted around i found a couple pretty quick. I will agree, my 353 has never let me down as far as being reliable, but the 4bt i had didnt either. Guys have done this conversion, hunt the internet a little and im sure you can find some info. You have a manual transmission machine right ? I dont know with a powershift ? But a straight manual should 90% bolt up other than adjustment or little tweeks providing youve got the bellhousing. 1 thing to consider, the pump on my 405 ran on the cummins gear train, i dont know how yours is. I dont think running off the crank would be too hard either but investigate every angle before you jump.

Offline treeslayer2003

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Re: 3-53 or 4-53 detroit transplant ?
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2014, 11:22:19 PM »
Well I guess I'm going to be the odd man out here in this discussion. I'd go with the 353 in a C4 as the 453 would be too long to shoehorn in there, and too much power. I have used forwarders with everything from Detroit Diesel 353's, Perkin's 1006, Cummins 4BT's, John deere 4045t and 6068's. But the most enduring was the 353. When you pushed the starter button in the morning you knew you were going to work for the day. If you want clean and quiet don't get it, if you want to haul wood then get it. You know if it's quiet you are looking for put a gasser in.... only for the chains and chokers you'll never be heard in the woods. I got a 250 chev in a TJ 201 and that works great. If you get a Cummins 4BT try and get the 125 HP engine the older ones lack power.
nope, i aggree. be a good match to that size skidder.


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