The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems

Tally-I/O




Author Topic: Price too low?  (Read 5698 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DanG

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 13493
  • Age: 73
  • Location: Chattahoochee, Florida USA
  • Gender: Male
  • DanG, The Official ForestryForum Cussword
    • Share Post
Price too low?
« on: March 03, 2002, 05:45:47 AM »
As I try to plan a direction for my sawmilling business to take, one of the things that seems lucrative, and in demand, would be the production of flooring. There is about to be a housing boom in this area, and I'd like to get in on it, by installing a dry kiln, and a planer-moulder, to produce my product from start to finish.

Now comes along this fellow that is advertising "factory fresh oak flooring, $.99 per sq ft."  :o :o

Surely, he can't produce a high quality, finished product at that price, and stay in business, can he?  Would it be ethical to call him, and ask about his product, pretending to be a potential customer, or should I be upfront, and identify myself as future competition?

What would be considered a fair price for flooring, ready to install?
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Offline Jeff

  • Fearless Leader
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 48448
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Harrison MI
  • Gender: Male
  • I know that I do not know.
    • Share Post
    • THEE Forestry Forum
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2002, 06:06:37 AM »
Dan,

Here is a sample of our floor. We paid .99 a square foot. It is what they call cabin grade. I hate the high grade flooring because there is no character. This flooring has stain, knots, mineral streaks, and its beautiful.

Here is the real deal though. The cabin grade lumber that we bought for .99, in all actuality probably cost $2 a foot by the time we culled out the pieces that had wane, broken tongues or grooves, splits, loose knots, etc. We ended up with the look we wanted but not at 99 cents a foot.

I would believe that this wood you speak of is the same type deal. The Company that sold us the wood sells it as is. it comes in about 6 to 8 foot bundles.

I bet if you call them up and ask if they have guaranteed covererage with usable peices at that cost he will say no. I would not think calling him to ask questions would be deseptive at all, unless you actually tell him your a customer. I would say, "I am interested in your flooring" which would be the God's honest truth.

We have a large amish population around here, and everyone of them have a sawmill. We get phone calles every week from people with german accents asking about our lumber prices. Who do ya figure they are? :D
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life.
Ezekiel 22:30

Offline Bibbyman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 11418
  • Age: 69
  • Location: In the middle of things
  • Gender: Male
  • Pro-Sawyer Mary and Bibbyman
    • Share Post
    • Warden Sawmill
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2002, 07:13:33 AM »
Ive always been open and upfront when talking with others in the business. Quite often, weve helped each others businesses by exchanging customers that we could better serve or by helping each other with referrals, find equipment, etc.  

Ive gotten those calls too where people want to know the prices of everything, where our logs come from, how much to we pay, who we market to, what equipment we have and how we do things, and Ill ask them if they have a sawmill or are thinking of getting one.  When they say yes, I invite them to come down some time and well talk.  I find its good business to be on good terms with others in the business.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Offline Ron Wenrich

  • Forester
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13931
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Jonestown, PA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2002, 07:25:51 AM »
German accents?  Everyone around here talks like that!  I've heard the words Jews, choose, juice, and chews all pronounced the same way. :D

It is no more unethical to call and ask about his product than to walk around Lowe's or Home Depot looking at the products they are selling.  You can get ideas from all sorts of places.

Flooring is generally produced from low grade lumber.  Knots are often removed as well as other cosmetic defects.  This type of flooring is going for around $3/sq ft in at Lowe's.

Another thing to look at is lumber thickness.  The higher grades of flooring are 3/4".  You can get them a lot thinner, and that skews the sq ft to bd ft ratio.  

What market niche are you looking for?  Do you want the low end user or the high end user?  Each will demand a different grade and price.

Another thing to consider is different species.  Oak is the most prevalent now, but, I've heard that upscale houses are turning more towards maple.  Consumer tastes differ from area to area.  Specialty markets usually command higher prices.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline Bibbyman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 11418
  • Age: 69
  • Location: In the middle of things
  • Gender: Male
  • Pro-Sawyer Mary and Bibbyman
    • Share Post
    • Warden Sawmill
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2002, 01:08:40 PM »
I didnt say anything about ethics.  Im always up front because Ive found it a better way of doing business.  But, now that you mention it,  if I call someone on the pretense that Im a legitimate customer and use 5-10-20 minutes of their time to find out information valuable to me,  with no intention of doing business with them, then Id say yes,  thats not right.  Ive had a number of calls that I know or suspect fall in that range.  They have taken more than information, they have taken my time.

As far as Lowes and Home Depot,  then its out there for public display and youre likely going to pick up an extension cord, power tool, or some nails anyway.  But even then,  when Home Depot came to our area,  I went in and looked over their KD hardwood and asked to talk to the manager of the department.  We talked for about a half hour and exchanged business cards.  You know what!  They will buy from local producers. He gave me some examples for the deals they made with local businesses where he had came from.  I didnt peruse it because we already have two lumberyards that we supply lumber to.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Offline Bud Man

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 607
  • Gender: Male
  • "MAKE EM HAPPY WHILE YOU MAKE A BUCK & EN
    • Share Post
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2002, 02:37:04 PM »
I've found evasive tactics in learning about "The Competition" to be ethically improper ( in my mind) and limiting in results.   An open conversation with a competitor will tell you much  more about them than a closed one of evasive means.  Competitors know you're there and you know their there,  an open conversation has lead to many great opportunities for me in the past and I'm sure it will lead to many more.  Competition is what makes us get out of bed in the morning and take on the day with vigor !!
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

Offline J_T

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Dukedom Tn
  • Gender: Male
  • Some of anything beats all of nothing Even in Dukedom Tn
    • Share Post
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2002, 09:06:56 PM »
 A man across the way here has a sawmill and when i got mine i didn't know how to aproach him for information.So one sunday i worked up my nerve an went an knocked on his door.His son started up their mill and showed me all about it .Since then he comes by to check on me i appointed him inspector and he said he would saw the first log when i get it together.All i know about a sawmill is what my uncle told me said he knew a man once that read a book on sawmills.I have been suprised at the help i have got. Most around here say thare is plenty for every body.
Jim Holloway

Offline Tom

  • In Memoriam
  • *
  • Posts: 25838
  • Age: 77
  • Location: Jacksonville, Florida
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Toms Saw
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2002, 07:46:03 AM »
JT, I noticed  "way back in the nineteen hundreds" (I like to say that)  that sawmillers are generally the most  helpful bunch of characters I ever met.  I know there must be some jerks out there but all I have ever met were more than willing to talk shop, help with problems, teach most anything they knew and help another mill out in a bind, even if it was a competitor. I guess the Feds could have a hay-day in this occupation if they wanted to come down on one-man sawmills for price fixing, although the millers don't consider it that.  They are just visiting and helping, not coercing.

You may feel out of place looking the big lumber yards over for material and prices, but I'll bet you would be welcomed on the site of most of the little mills. These operations seem to be a "horse of a different color". :)
extinct

Offline J_T

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Dukedom Tn
  • Gender: Male
  • Some of anything beats all of nothing Even in Dukedom Tn
    • Share Post
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2002, 07:57:37 PM »
Right Tom I think small mill folks relate better because they started at -0 too. Anouther nice bunch of folks I have found is right here on the Forum I am glad I found it. Any yaull get close to here drop in.
Jim Holloway

Offline Bud Man

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 607
  • Gender: Male
  • "MAKE EM HAPPY WHILE YOU MAKE A BUCK & EN
    • Share Post
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2002, 11:12:15 PM »
I'll second that.   J T   Wish I had a map of all the members, I'd visit every one till I had at least mastered each ones level of BS.  Probably take at least 2-3 months. I think I'm ankle deep above some of them on the front end.
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

Offline Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6049
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2002, 06:53:00 AM »
http://www.coxewoodfloors.com/stuart1.htm

This is the flooring mill down the mountain, they produce some nice stuff and have some pics to let you see grade. Ours is 1c red oak, all the color of the species, only sound small knots, I think $1.35 10 yrs ago. They did have a cabin grade below 2c that we could get at the mill, never used it..it looked like alot of waste. It probably all works out in the wash. The Appy Gold is black locust,a beautiful floor, these pics were taken of the floors in their offices, JEB is in the foyer, his birthplace is down the road. Inlays and custom borders are becoming a larger niche.
http://www.coxewoodfloors.com
This is the flooring guys in town, their links page is good, they also have more grade pics.

Flooring is a high callback item if there ever was one. There will be no mercy on high MC's, and customer education is in order as far as maintaining indoor rh or expecting some movement. Just stuff to consider before hopping in.  :P
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline woodman

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 482
  • Age: 2015
  • Location: Wilmington Ma.
  • Gender: Male
  • I love cutting lumber on my wood mizer
    • Share Post
    • Jim Cripanuk's Portable Saw Mill
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2002, 09:09:30 PM »
 :)  Bud Man if you are going to make a tour doun't forget to see me & Wood mills and  :) :) :) :) ;D ;D all the way home
Jim Cripanuk

Offline Bud Man

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 607
  • Gender: Male
  • "MAKE EM HAPPY WHILE YOU MAKE A BUCK & EN
    • Share Post
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2002, 01:33:09 AM »
Careful bout them open invites Woodman,  Macurtis made that same mistake and It took him 4 days to run me off.   :D :D    Now as far as  :) :) :) :) ;D  ;D    I'd have to think I'd be the one being laughed at with my Southern accent when I got out of my Ka and asked for a Coke instead of a Pop.  And a trip would have to be in the summer cause " Hush Your Mouth I'm From The South " I ain't coming in the winter. :o :o :
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

Offline Corley5

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8161
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Wolverine, Michigan USA
  • Gender: Male
  • Wolverine, Michigan
    • Share Post
    • Whittaker Farms
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2002, 08:08:56 AM »
"Wish I had a map of all the members".  That would be pretty cool.  Is it possible Jeff?  
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Offline DanG

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 13493
  • Age: 73
  • Location: Chattahoochee, Florida USA
  • Gender: Male
  • DanG, The Official ForestryForum Cussword
    • Share Post
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2002, 08:19:34 AM »
Jeff, scoot over to the "Tractor Tales" board at ytmag. Click on the "Talers Map" and see what they've done with it. I'm most confident that a man with your obvious skill and talent could pull it off.  Ol' "Bobduck" put that one together, so he could answer any questions you might have. 8) 8) 8) 8)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Offline L. Wakefield

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1278
  • Age: 68
  • Location: Hollis Maine
  • Gender: Female
    • Share Post
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2002, 10:15:53 AM »
   I'm with y'all on the map and an open invite from my end of New England. I don't have much to show yet- no mils, just sawz, and small ones at that. And a very young woodlot. But I garntee I feed ya right and learn all I could while you wuz here. But I do like the idea of a countrywide map. Esp if I was in my truck... 8) 8) 8)   lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Offline Jeff

  • Fearless Leader
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 48448
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Harrison MI
  • Gender: Male
  • I know that I do not know.
    • Share Post
    • THEE Forestry Forum
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2002, 10:49:49 AM »
well, by seemingly apparent skills and talents failed to find what you were talking about other then a long thread of people saying where they were from :-/ Got some better directions? Maybe an actual address? Am I looking for an actual map?

HELP!
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life.
Ezekiel 22:30

Offline Bud Man

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 607
  • Gender: Male
  • "MAKE EM HAPPY WHILE YOU MAKE A BUCK & EN
    • Share Post
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2002, 10:59:56 AM »
Jeff  You got the profiles- Leave out the Michiganders :D and just put a Star on top of Michigan( We know there's a member in every town) :D and plot the rest of the members in their respective places and when I want to go on a trip I'll know where to stop and chat.  Don't include no pictures cause I never would have gone to visit Macurtis(He's Ugly) :D
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

Offline L. Wakefield

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1278
  • Age: 68
  • Location: Hollis Maine
  • Gender: Female
    • Share Post
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2002, 11:06:47 AM »
   I'd suggest either state or town and state. Not street address. Let members e-mail each other if they are wanting to come visit and they can get specifics then.  lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Offline Jeff

  • Fearless Leader
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 48448
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Harrison MI
  • Gender: Male
  • I know that I do not know.
    • Share Post
    • THEE Forestry Forum
Re: Price too low?
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2002, 11:24:35 AM »
I have a temporary solution here using an offsite web resource. Give me a few then look for the guest map link on the entrance page.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life.
Ezekiel 22:30


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Slab Price vs Dimensional lumber Price

Started by Solar_HoneyBee0 on Sawmills and Milling

17 Replies
1695 Views
Last post May 07, 2019, 08:21:00 PM
by Tom the Sawyer
xx
Price for 051 and 064

Started by Ducksnuff870 on Chainsaws

2 Replies
588 Views
Last post February 13, 2013, 06:56:55 PM
by shinnlinger
xx
How would you price this job?

Started by Nomad on Sawmills and Milling

15 Replies
2689 Views
Last post July 23, 2012, 10:41:20 AM
by drobertson
xx
price for.

Started by twobears on General Board

6 Replies
1500 Views
Last post July 05, 2006, 12:11:18 AM
by Gary_C
 


Powered by EzPortal