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Author Topic: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting  (Read 4372 times)

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Offline bonds007

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Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« on: March 06, 2015, 12:39:35 AM »
 

  I have a Hydro Ax 611e sn 4366, with what I'm pretty sure is a 22" koehring waterous sawhead on it. The saw is weak, takes a while to spin up, and stalls on anything thicker than 8 or 10". When warmed up is even worse. I'm not a logger and bought it at auction to clear some of my property.
Not sure the machine has the right pump on it. Everything I read says Rexroth AAV6VM160 is the correct pump, and the one on my machine is not that. Has the Sauer Sunstrand drive pump on top, and the lower looks like a long aluminum tube with flat sides where the hoses bolt up.
Dealer is no help, only gives their book # for the pump to order from them at 5 grand. I would like to procure otherwise if necessary.
Does anyone know of an independant mechanic in middle-west Georgia, or middle-east Alabama who could properly troubleshoot it for me?
Anyone have the correct pump model and sawhead motor model for this machine?




Offline 1270d

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2015, 07:09:32 AM »
Forum member "Kiko" might be have an answer for you.  He has a lot of knowledge about woods equipment.

Offline Southside logger

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2015, 07:56:59 AM »
@CCC4 may be able to give some advice, they have a hydro ax on his crew.
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Offline kiko

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2015, 08:41:43 AM »
The aav6vm160 rexroth is the saw motor located in the saw it self.  The gear pump located beneath the sauer drive pump is a two section gear pump that operates the boom functions and the saw.  There are many things that could cause your symptom, and it could get real expensive real fast. The first thing to do would be acquire a pressure gauge set up and check saw pressure with blade stalled.  Should be 3700 psi.

Offline sshier

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2015, 11:16:46 AM »
How are the teeth ar you cutting Hardwood probably not the problem but with dull teeth cutting hard wood can be troublesome

Offline CCC4

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2015, 07:23:29 PM »
My boss said he would be more than happy to discuss your Hydro Ax problems with you...pm me if you are interested. First off...he said check your teeth for sure. Then, be dang sure to grease the bottom bearing on the saw itself and the side bearing. If you don't know...raise your head and you will see a bolt dead center of the saw...remove the bolt and you will be able to access the grease zert. My boss said if the teeth are good on yer saw and you have greased everything...your problem will be in the saw motor itself. He told me to tell you to call him for sure...jus send me a pm and I will hook ya up.

Offline bonds007

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2015, 11:58:39 PM »
Thanks, will do.

Offline bonds007

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2015, 12:15:45 AM »
I might have found part of the problem, a wad of hardwood limb/sapling pieces and vines above blade and in blade housing. It was defiinitely slowing it down.
Teeth could definitely be better. Some teeth are newer than others. I will try to get teeth pic on here tomorrow- upload not cooperating right now.
Before I can try it out (without the wad) next problem is the buncher arm switch quit closing. There was a mess of wire in the handle.... I guess I need to start another post to get some input on wiring diagram to find that problem.
Got a pressure test kit on order.

Offline so il logger

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2015, 01:14:28 AM »
I just viewed your pic's on the FF gallery, they look shot to me. But I think there is more to it than the teeth. Start there and if you haven't already got with CCC4 about that contact then maybe you should.
Good Luck
stihl ms 660's 661's husky 395's 450c tj Learning something new everyday

Offline log cutter

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2015, 01:37:10 AM »
Looking at your pictures in your gallery, your teeth are worn out.  Don't know how many teeth are on it  but try putting 1/2 of a new set on ,put a new tooth  every other one  and see if it makes a difference.
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Offline kiko

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2015, 03:59:16 AM »
I agree the teeth are shot.  You are not cutting the wood but rather gnawing it down.  I can help you with a part number on the teeth if you can  get a pic of a tooth removed and what size bolt it has.  Dull teeth are what caused those disk cracks. 

Offline nk14zp

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2015, 07:42:24 AM »
Not sure on the hydro ax but the JD 653e has a solenoid that if bad or unhooked will cause the same thing.
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Offline bonds007

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2015, 03:31:01 PM »
Thanks guys, I will get some teeth on order. I pulled one of them already and there are some numbers stamped on them: hopefully they will be correct model or I will mic them and post pic to find out.
I'm going to try and trace down the joystick wiring now. If any one knows where that valve set for the buncher arms is located on this machine it would help greatly.
Looks like I may have to pressure wash and degrease the crap out of it to be able to trace everything. Looks like 20 yrs of oil, dirt, and pine straw caked up inside this thing. I know time is money but a lot to be said for periodic maintenance of a machine...especially for resale value.

Offline bonds007

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2015, 10:39:20 PM »
Found the joystick wiring problem: was some crappy rigged up wire repairs in the frame chase that had come apart. I followed hoses from the bunch arm cylinder, found the valve wire, and got it working with a jumper wire. Got to rewire the rigged up mess and might as well fix the tach and other guages while I am rewiring. Go to chase down a wire diagram for 611e.
Can anyone tell me where the tach (hot saw tach) wiring is supposed to go?
Found the bottom blade plug/grease zerk- thanks for that! I would have never even thought of it.
If anyone here is selling those teeth and can overnight them out tomorrow let me know. I would love to send some business your way. They are Quadco BN55 Q1015DT. What remains of the tooth is 2-3/16" wide, shank is 1" long and 1-1/4 diameter. Bolt is 3" shank and looks to be 1/2" fine thread.
Are the carbide teeth worth the extra $ for cutting or just for longevity? Should I replace bolts as well?
Thanks for all your input and help guys!

Online beenthere

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2015, 11:43:04 PM »
Found the joystick wiring problem: was some crappy rigged up wire repairs in the frame chase that had come apart. I followed hoses from the bunch arm cylinder, found the valve wire, and got it working with a jumper wire. Got to rewire the rigged up mess and might as well fix the tach and other guages while I am rewiring. Go to chase down a wire diagram for 611e.
Can anyone tell me where the tach (hot saw tach) wiring is supposed to go?
Found the bottom blade plug/grease zerk- thanks for that! I would have never even thought of it.
If anyone here is selling those teeth and can overnight them out tomorrow let me know. I would love to send some business your way. They are Quadco BN55 Q1015DT. What remains of the tooth is 2-3/16" wide, shank is 1" long and 1-1/4 diameter. Bolt is 3" shank and looks to be 1/2" fine thread.
Are the carbide teeth worth the extra $ for cutting or just for longevity? Should I replace bolts as well?
Thanks for all your input and help guys!

Try that in the "wanted" section of the Forum... FYI
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Offline snowstorm

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2015, 05:55:41 AM »
you cant buy direct from quadco. there should be plenty of quadco dealers around try the local cat dealer. if they dont have them they be able to tell you who will

Offline nk14zp

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2015, 01:11:14 PM »
And yes on the bolts.
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Offline 1270d

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2015, 05:58:24 PM »
Try Comstock logging supply at the top of the page.

Offline furltech

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2015, 06:09:11 PM »
Quick question for my own info looking into the op's gallery at the saw disk on his buncher i noticed it is cracked at the teeth is there a danger of it flying to pieces or is that normal stress .and can it be welded .I  haven't worked around many bunchers and was curious ? Sorry for the hijack.

Offline bonds007

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2015, 01:28:45 AM »
Got all new sawteeth at local Cat dealer and put on yesterday, spent all day today rewiring other people's crap, putting in a new keyswitch, and a new Kenwood stereo and speakers (just to add resale value  ;) ). I also found the joystick buncher switch problem and ran replacement wires. Finish wiring in the am, installing a new windshield, bolting all panels back in and will try it out.
Wondering myself about the blade cracks? I have seen ads for blade repair and welding; I was planning to grind and weld as deep as possible. My Ironman 230 mig should do the job, if not my gas welder will.

Offline sshier

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2015, 01:10:31 PM »
Those Look To Be Concave Cutters I Switched To The Quadco BEVER Teeth They seam to hold up better for me but any way there's nothing like a fresh set of teeth it we I'll cut like butter

Offline bonds007

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2015, 10:47:16 PM »
Well the new beaver teeth seemed to do the trick; I think I got lucky today on the pump/motor issues. I am amazed at the difference. Tried it out on two big tornado damaged pines in my front yard and it sang right into them as far as the butt plate was deep. Had to cut from 2 sides to get them done and it ate through that like a fat man at a hotdog eating contest. It threw nice shaved ribbons about 1/8 to 3/16 thick and up to a foot long, instead of mulch chunks like with the old teeth. It also seemed like the blade/motor powered up after the initial slight loss of rpm, like I read it was supposed to in the Koerhing Waterous book I just recieived a few days ago (bought on ebay).
Another thing that might have been causing some issue was the prior owner had a cut buncher grapple wire and saw solenoid wire at the midsection around the driveshaft. They had spliced another wire in for buncher grapple, and had also rigged a jumper wire from keyswitch to saw switch to buncher grapple rocker switch. While rewiring I also noticed that sometimes, when switching the saw on, the grapple buncher would open too and stay powered like I was holding the buncher  arms switch, draggin the engine down (at low rpms). I suspect that while cutting, when hitting the buncher button it was somehow turning off or cancelling out the power to the saw solenoid, as it seemed to die out sometimes while operating.
The bad luck today was one of the trees I felled rolled off the limbs of another big standing pine after I laid/dropped it and about 8' of the top landed on the power line about 50' to the left, cancelling out the power to several hundred folks in the area for a few hours. Pic in album. I had to help the power co guys with my ASV track loader to get it off the lines while they cut. Guess my name is Mudd in the neighborhood for a while.
Thanks for all the help everyone! Knowledge is priceless. If I can help any of you in any way please let me know. I will update post on how it does tomorrow- gonna get it butt deep in some real wood in the morning, but no more power lines....

Offline Southside logger

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2015, 11:29:00 PM »
Glad to hear you got it working.  Even better to hear you did not get hurt when turning in your application to the "Big Blue Flash Club". A number of us are members, mine was just a glancing brush by of a pine, big flash but no outage as a result.  They going to make you pay for it?
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Offline so il logger

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2015, 12:28:42 AM »
Big Blue Flash Club.... yep i'm a member  :D :D :D Didn't know what it was called before but I've been there...Don't sweat it... like forrest gump said.... ____ happens. At least you got it going, I figured there was more to it than the teeth  :)
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Offline bonds007

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2015, 01:06:55 AM »
 ;) hey I like that... BIG BLUE FLASH CLUB! There were actually 3 sets of flashes before the power dropped out. Accordin to the guys their system detects shorts, backs off and tries again twice before the break throws at the substation. No transformer problems. Heckuva light show. I don't think any problem on paying for it. We had a big snow recently and they said treefalls are expected and no big problem (thats their story)...I just helped it along I guess...

Offline Ken

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2015, 07:12:20 AM »
I am also a member of that club.  Took out the power to a village on one of the coldest days of the winter a few years back.  Took several hours to get the power back on.  Glad you got the buncher working better.  Love the sound of a saw singing through wood
Lots of toys for working in the bush

Offline sshier

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Re: Hydro Ax 611 weak sawhead: need help troubleshooting
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2015, 12:10:04 PM »
I don't know if anyone said but make sure you change the bolts also my experience is that if you don't they'll break of and say goodbye to that new tooth a buck is alot cheaper than 30 for a new tooth and backer


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