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Author Topic: New E classic owner  (Read 3251 times)

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Offline overclocking

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New E classic owner
« on: July 21, 2015, 11:11:22 PM »
Hi guys I am new to wood burning entirely. I am not unfamiliar with cutting wood, but new to burning. I purchased a house with a new gas boiler and decided 600 a month was way to expensive. I am in the process of collecting 10-12 chords that has been down for a year or more, and more is being split daily.

My boiler is an e classic 1400, I purchased it second hand and intend on hooking it up next month. I have the boiler 40ft from my house, it came with 30 ft of thermopex and I will need to devise a way to add additional pex. That should not be a problem.

I have collected all the tools and pex as well as fittings to connect this thing to my house. The boiler came with 4 heat exchangers and a thermostat.

My main questions are on the exchanger connections. I have an electric water heater, so my intention is to connect the long tube water heater exchanger to the cold side of the water heater, seems as this would preheat any incoming water that is going in the heater, so the heater would not have to turn on.. That one seems straight forward.

Next I have 2 larger exchangers and a smaller exchanger. My idea is to piggy back the two larger exchangers and save the smaller guy for a rainy day project for my garage heat. (piggy back to get as much energy out as possible)

My current boiler setup is a standard 125k btu lp hot water boiler, there are 6 zones. The house size is roughly 3000sq feet and built in 96.

Where my confusion is arising is the connection of the exchangers to the existing manifold. DO I just piggy back the exchangers then run the water that is returning (cold from the baseboards)  through the exchangers? The LP boiler return manifold is 1 inch copper that opens up to 1 1/4 Iron pipe where it goes into the boiler. If I reduce the return flow by adding the exchanger setup is that going to impede normal operation of my gas unit? ( I still need gas for when I am not home.)

Offline doctorb

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2015, 08:41:07 AM »
Overclocking - Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Usually, the exchangers are connected between your e Classic and the water jacket of your furnace.  The object is to keep the water in your existing gas furnace at a high temperature so that the gas furnace never receives the signal to turn on.  This exchange is NOT thermostat regulated and this water circulates through the exchanger constantly, from both the wood side and the gas side.  The water in your baseboards returns to the gas furnace and exits the gas furnace the same way it always has.  This circulation is thermostat regulated.  As far as needed plumbing, you will need a water line connected from your intake and outflow of your furnace connected to your exchanger, with a cirulation pump to circulate that water through the exchanger.

There are lots of diagrams available on the CB website as to the different ways to hook this up. 

The size of the exchanger may matter.  There are others on the FF that can provide that expertise.

I am also concerned as to how you are planning to hook up your hot water.  It seems to me that, with your current design. you will be providing hot water to the tank only when more water is required.  You will still be using electricity to keep the water in the tank warm when no water is used (like overnight).  This too can be circumvented by rearranging your system.  Dependent upon your boiler, the water jacket in your gas boiler can be used to heat your hot water, along with a secondary small  heat exchanger after the hot water leaves the furnace. 

All good questions.  There's a ton of info here with experienced OWB owners to help.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Offline gspren

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2015, 08:49:16 AM »
  The water from the wood boiler is not under pressure while the water from the gas boiler is so they never connect directly. On my system there is a heat exchanger mounted above the in house boiler and a circ pump running boiler water through one side while another circ pump runs water from my outdoor boiler through the other side, these pumps run continuously, circ pumps use very little electric. During heating season I set the wood boiler temp to stay between 178-183 F and lower the indoor boiler to 140-150. If you are 40 ft from the house buy a new piece of GOOD insulated pex so that you don't have any underground connections!
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, JD 2355 4X4 w/fel, JD 620, Yamaha Kodiak 400 & trailer, Kubota 400 RTV,  P&M OWB, 75 acres to play.

Offline overclocking

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2015, 09:20:55 AM »
Thanks for the reply guys.

Does anyone know where I can find a diagram on how to hook up a sidearm?

I know the ports that exit horizontally on the tube are for the boiler, I know the water heater will be the first stop from the boiler.

I just dont see how a sidearm works I guess. I mean how does it circulate?

On my tank I have 4 possible connections to hook it to.

inlet
outlet
pressure relief valve
drain

Looking at the diagrams it looks like they hook to the pressure relief and the drain, but I dont see how that would circulate the water without a pump.

Offline whitepine2

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2015, 08:33:58 PM »
Thanks for the reply guys.

Does anyone know where I can find a diagram on how to hook up a sidearm?

I know the ports that exit horizontally on the tube are for the boiler, I know the water heater will be the first stop from the boiler.

I just dont see how a sidearm works I guess. I mean how does it circulate?

On my tank I have 4 possible connections to hook it to.

inlet
outlet
pressure relief valve
drain

Looking at the diagrams it looks like they hook to the pressure relief and the drain, but I dont see how that would circulate the water without a pump.
Convection Hot water rises cold goes down the older John
Deere tractors didn't have a water pump just convection cooling,it
works I know,never had the JD over heat. As a matter of fact they
were fitted with shutters to make them heat so as to run on kero
would run them up to near boiling of course system was under
pressure.

Offline woodmills1

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2015, 09:58:29 PM »
I have a side arm heater, it works so well I needed to put a tempering vale on to the water heater to reduce the risk of burn off flesh.

Te center of the heater is for the house water.  The bottom connects to the drain vale output and the drain is then outside that.  The top connects to the overflow with the overflow vale above that.  Yes, the two horizontals connect to the furnace water, it flows in a separate pipe around the center one.  The incoming furnace water connects to the bottom horizontal, so that that water is hottest and causes the house water to rise in the center of the side arm setting up a thermosyphon.

do not let your outdoor water mix with you indoor water either from the water heater or your furnace
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Offline overclocking

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2015, 09:49:26 AM »
Thanks guys. I have been getting my wood stacked and accounted for and most of it is very large pieces. Usually 24 inch and once split logs. Do these gassifers prefer smaller or larger hardwood? I know to start it obviously smaller is better, but once it is running is larger also acceptable?

Offline beenthere

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2015, 11:02:07 AM »
You will find that the gassers prefer "dry" wood... and large chunks do not dry fast (take a couple years minimum) and any regular size wood cut and split now can't be dry enough to burn for at least another year in a gasser.
Not sure what your wood situation is, but just sayin...  sounds like you are in for some frustration on startup yet this coming season.
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Offline overclocking

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2015, 06:56:53 PM »
I was told they love dry wood, so I found someone selling dry wood that has been down for a few years. I put an order in for 12 chord, but I am finding it is not as dry as I hoped. Its all oak and hickory. Some of the red oak was wet inside, some was not. We tested it with one of the moisture testers and its showing 40% inside if I split the large pieces.

Offline overclocking

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2015, 11:38:15 AM »
OK here are my heat exchangers I got with the unit. Would it be sufficient to use just the big one for my house boiler? Is there really any benefit to use the medium and large in a piggy back configuration?

I also threw a picture in of the house boiler. Its 125k btu and the house is approximately 3k sq feet, built in 96 but the *DanG mice have ran off with a lot of insulation in some areas. .

I am collecting thoughts and going to start planning the layout this weekend. I would like it to be presentable, but most of all maximum efficiency.

The main thing I am concerned about now is the most efficient way to connect the exchangers. I have been reading up and i dont see many people piggy backing them.My idea was to use the medium sized one as a "pre heater" prior to water entering the larger main exchanger.

Offline overclocking

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2015, 11:47:51 AM »
 

  

  

  

  So apparently I dont know how to attach pics.

Offline beenthere

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2015, 01:16:35 PM »
overclocking
You are getting about half way with the pics. Loaded 4 of them twice, and prolly because you didn't realize they were in your gallery already, so uploaded them again.

To post them in your post, you can go to the "modify" button and then "Click here to add Photos to post" which will take you to another window. Don't click the upload button but instead, click the "My gallery" button in the menu line.
Then click the pic you want, it will enlarge, and then you SCROLL down to where the line "Insert pic in Post" appears or you can copy the url listed.
Click the Preview button to verify that your post is what you want it to be. Should do it.
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Offline overclocking

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2015, 01:44:14 PM »
Thanks!

Offline gspren

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2015, 10:10:15 PM »
   I see on the tag it shows Central Boiler made in York, PA which is near me but I thought they were made in the mid-west. Are they still made in York?
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, JD 2355 4X4 w/fel, JD 620, Yamaha Kodiak 400 & trailer, Kubota 400 RTV,  P&M OWB, 75 acres to play.

Offline Cass007

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2015, 01:38:32 PM »
   I see on the tag it shows Central Boiler made in York, PA which is near me but I thought they were made in the mid-west. Are they still made in York?

I'm in York and they are not made here. I believe they are out of Minnesota. The closest dealer I could find to our area was in Carlisle, PA.
Becoming more Hillbilly with every passing year.

Offline garret

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2015, 09:42:52 AM »
The HEX are likely made for CB by another manufacturer.
E-Classic 2400 comfortably heating 4,200 sq.ft. and unlimited DHW, Off-grid, Photovoltaic-powered pumps in gloomy SW PA , 34 t splitter, numerous Husky chainsaws

Offline overclocking

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2015, 08:23:46 PM »
So I looked all over the internet and the general consensus is that the 5 inch 50 plate exchanger should be more than enough for my boiler setup, so I am going to use just the large one and a side arm for my water heater. I am going to install the setup in the next few weeks. I will add pictures as I go.

Offline overclocking

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2015, 08:59:31 AM »
Well I started to hook up the water heater, was 25 solder joints and about 20 crimps. It didn't really turn out as good as I wanted, I might clean it up. The side arm ended up being clogged with scale, so its filled with muriatic acid now to clean it, then I will post a pic with that installed too.

I added a temp control valve for safe use. The little exchanger should heat incoming water, while the side arm keeps it hot. I think I want to remount the mini exchanger though to make it a little more presentable. 

 

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2015, 11:09:52 AM »
And heres the picture of the exchanger. Its getting mounted in the section between the pump and boiler, I am moving the temp gauge on the boiler above the exchanger, so I can monitor incoming and out going temps. 

 

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Re: New E classic owner
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2015, 01:56:10 PM »
please post pics when the side arm and the whole water heater setup is done. can you post them from difrent angles as well?
Thanks


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