Test fit with removable iron peg

addicted · September 15, 2015, 09:16:40 AM

Hey guys
Does anyone test fit there joints with an iron pin/peg before raising? I went to a class with Jack Sobon a while back and he had a few iron rods tapered at one end and about 2 inches bent 175 degrees at the other. The idea was to test fit joints using the rod as a peg then the bent end was easy to pry out by leveraging against the tab. I'm test fitting now and wondering if its worth the trouble to make a few.

Thanks
Rusty

Jim_Rogers · September 15, 2015, 11:16:13 AM

I/we use them when we have them on hand.

Jim Rogers

addicted · September 15, 2015, 12:00:52 PM

Thanks Jim
Are they worth the effort to make a handful of them?
Have you tried to make some your self? If so any suggestions? Last time i heated an old wrench to bend it for a distributor bolt the wrench promptly broke during the first use. However it was an old cheap wrench to start with.
Rusty

Jim_Rogers · September 15, 2015, 01:15:55 PM

Well, years ago, I wanted to make up a whole bunch of them to have on hand to sell.
But after getting a quote from my machine shop guy the only way I figured I could do it was to sell some, say 10 in advance and use that money to make up 20.
So, I'd have some to sell later on when someone wants them.

Recently we used a wrench that iron workers use to put together steel buildings as the end comes to a point:

Here is a shot of mine.

And you'd use a second one to get the first one out of the peg hole by putting the tip into the hole in the top.

There has been a guy in CA who has wanted some for a while. He finally got tired of waiting for me to make some and purchased the drawing from me so he could have his machine shop make some up.

I have considered just selling the drawing, some more.

If you want one just pm me or email me and 5% would go to the forum.

Jim Rogers

beenthere · September 15, 2015, 01:34:25 PM

Look at McMaster-Carr for alignment pins, and a variety of them will show up.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-alignment-pins/=yy927m

Appears there is at least one similar to what Jim pictures in photo attached, with hole in end to use another for extraction.

Seems I've seen another that has a claw-like end on a drift pin, but haven't found it with Google.

Roger Nair · September 15, 2015, 01:35:29 PM

It is my understanding that in English tradition that some of the tapered tee handle framing pins have an oval cross-section that tightens and loosens with the twisting of the tee handle, this allows for drawing joint and removing the pin without pounding and prying. I however been using steel erectors spud wrenches and been satisfied. Any industrial supply house will have tapered pins in their catalog.

Jim_Rogers · September 15, 2015, 01:57:15 PM

I just ordered 3 pins from McMaster to see if they will work.
I got item # 6055A2
This is about the same size as mine and should work.

Jim Rogers

razor · September 15, 2015, 08:03:54 PM

They call them podgers across the pond. I have around 20 and use them all the time. Once you use them for mock-up you'll never go back. Nothing more frustrating than trying to remove a stuck peg, especially when it's in a spot you can't tap out from the other side, like a floor assembly. My podgers are T shaped. I have a machine shop that makes them for me for about $20 a pop. Sorry i don't have a pic on hand of them. Hook pins is another name.

razor · September 15, 2015, 08:09:06 PM

Big day lads! 54 posts and i'm a no longer one of those "I'm new" guys. Yea!! feel like i've been patched in.

addicted · September 15, 2015, 08:37:45 PM

Great information guys..Thanks
I'll be looking to procure a few drift pins soon.
Rusty

beenthere · September 15, 2015, 08:38:51 PM

Quote from: razor on September 15, 2015, 08:03:54 PM
They call them podgers across the pond. I have around 20 and use them all the time. Once you use them for mock-up you'll never go back. Nothing more frustrating than trying to remove a stuck peg, especially when it's in a spot you can't tap out from the other side, like a floor assembly. My podgers are T shaped. I have a machine shop that makes them for me for about $20 a pop. Sorry i don't have a pic on hand of them. Hook pins is another name.

How about putting your location in your profile... then "across the pond" would have some meaning. ;)

Jim_Rogers · September 15, 2015, 08:40:03 PM

When I ordered mine earlier today, they didn't calculate the shipping costs. So I don't have a grand total of what it will cost me yet. I didn't like that about that site.

Jim Rogers

beenthere · September 15, 2015, 08:46:34 PM

My experience with McMaster-Carr is that their UPS shipping is about half of what Amazon.com shipping usually is. Hope you don't have a bad experience with them. I never have.

But if you set up an account, then your account should show the total charge IIRC

Jim_Rogers · September 15, 2015, 08:55:39 PM

Quote from: beenthere on September 15, 2015, 08:46:34 PM
My experience with McMaster-Carr is that their UPS shipping is about half of what Amazon.com shipping usually is. Hope you don't have a bad experience with them. I never have.

But if you set up an account, then your account should show the total charge IIRC

I just checked my order status and it says it was shipped. But I can't see how to check my order total. It is not on the order page. How do you check your account?

Jim Rogers

beenthere · September 15, 2015, 09:00:47 PM

My account shows all my previous orders, and a .pdf invoice for each one.
But don't know how soon that info is posted, although would expect it to show right away.
Also, email confirmation with invoice sent.

razor · September 15, 2015, 09:19:17 PM

"How about putting your location in your profile... then "across the pond" would have some meaning"

Done

addicted · September 16, 2015, 08:32:55 AM

Hey Jim
The same thing happened to me. Ordered a few and no price on shipping when ordered and no price on the order confirmation email either.
Rusty

Jim_Rogers · September 16, 2015, 09:24:50 AM

Rusty:
I emailed a question to customer service. And they replied that the total isn't posted to the account until a day after it is shipped.
I got an email today with the total.
Shipping for three was under $7 for me.

Jim Rogers

Jim_Rogers · September 16, 2015, 11:24:01 AM

UPS just delivered my pins.
Shipped in from NJ overnight.

After lunch I'll have to open the box and inspect them.
Now I'll need to find a tie beam and post to test them in.

Jim Rogers

BCsaw · September 16, 2015, 10:37:02 PM

Be sure and let us know how they work out Jim!!! :D ;D

addicted · September 17, 2015, 08:34:51 AM

Shipping for 5 of those pins to Michigan was around $8. Great rate, given that they will be delivered today. But like Jim indicated, it would be nice to know ahead of time given some of the unscrupulous shipping rates that are out there.
Rusty

Brian_Weekley · September 17, 2015, 09:09:17 AM

I've always found the shipping charges from McMaster are very reasonable. It's a great source for all kinds of things.

Jim_Rogers · September 17, 2015, 09:36:13 AM

I didn't get to it yesterday. I don't know if I'll have time to get to it today.
People want their lumber yesterday and can't seem to figure out when to order it correctly.

Jim Rogers

beenthere · September 17, 2015, 12:10:50 PM

About shipping rates, I wonder if McMaster just charges the actual rate they have to pay so don't know it ahead of time? Whereas other online companies estimate the charge immediately and just pocket the difference.
Also, I've found myself putting together an online order and then cancelling that order when the final total that includes shipping is displayed.
So maybe McMaster does it so that we don't make that terminal decision.

But have always been impressed by the low shipping cost and fast service that comes from McMaster-Carr. Even bulky items like shop broom with the long handle come with low shipping costs.

addicted · September 17, 2015, 12:52:31 PM

The alignment pins look like they will work however I can see one problem, in that there is nothing on the large end to pry against or twist if you get one stuck. An angle grinder may solve that problem or a quick weld of scrap.
This may be a good excuse to buy a welder. Do you think the wife will see it that way?
Rusty

beenthere · September 17, 2015, 01:35:09 PM

Can you drill a 1/2" hole in the large end for another pin to be used to extract ??

Jim_Rogers · September 17, 2015, 03:05:35 PM

Quote from: beenthere on September 17, 2015, 01:35:09 PM
Can you drill a 1/2" hole in the large end for another pin to be used to extract ??

Most likely that's what I will do.
the alternative is to push the pin out with a 1/2" or 5/8" dowel. I call that a peg pusher.

Jim Rogers

addicted · September 17, 2015, 09:51:39 PM

Is it easier to to drill a hole or grind a flat spot in which to twist the pin out with a wrench? Grinding it quickly will probably heat the end to a point of changing its characteristics. I don't know if that. Will be an issue or not.
Rusty

Brad_bb · September 18, 2015, 01:15:34 AM

I had about 25 Podgers made by a local machine shop. This is the picture I used to spec the body out. These were $22 each. The hole is to accommodate the handle which is a just a piece of 1/2 inch cold rolled rod I ordered online cut to length by Speedy Metals in Milwaukee. Contact me if you want the full size Jpeg of this sketch is you want to quote it locally.

addicted · September 19, 2015, 08:28:49 PM

I like the taper on your podger, but i bet you hear that a lot. :D
The taper on the ones i just bought seem to hit the 13/16 size hole before moving the offset tenon hole far enough on a 2" 2" tenon-shoulder. Mine will probably work better on 1 1/2" 1 1/2" or on a 1" hole.
Rusty

Jim_Rogers · September 22, 2015, 09:48:02 AM

I haven't tested mine yet.
But Saturday, I opened the box and showed them to a bunch of timber framers at the northeast gathering in Maine.

Here is a shot of them:

and:

I'll let you know how they work when I finally test them.

Jim Rogers

razor · September 22, 2015, 08:31:42 PM

a straight tapered podger with no easy means to retract it isn't much different than driving a wood peg in IMO. I've had my T shaped podgers so tight it was all i could do to twist them out. I'd consider welding a handle across the top

Roger Nair · September 23, 2015, 12:45:56 AM

If your tee handle framing pins have an oval rather than a round cross section, you can tighten or release the pin by twisting the handle. Eliminate prying and pounding, increase efficiency by using fewer tools. Sorry for repeating a previous post.

Brad_bb · September 25, 2015, 07:35:44 PM

It looks like it would work sizewise Jim. I looked up that part number on McMaster carr, but it didn't tell what grade of steel it is, it only said "carbon steel" . I hope is soft enough to drill the holes. It looks like the pin was heat formed so I hope it's not too hard.

Jim_Rogers · September 26, 2015, 07:42:55 AM

I took them with me to a workshop class yesterday, and one of the students said her husband was looking for some test pins.
So I sold them.
I'll have to buy more for myself, again.

Jim Rogers