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Author Topic: hard starting 660  (Read 2240 times)

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Offline tlbrooks

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hard starting 660
« on: October 09, 2015, 07:11:28 PM »
I have a 660  with a muffler mod and limiters trimmed.im about 1 turn out and saw runs well after you get it started.it idles at 2750 rpm 13800 wot out of cut .ive tried 3 different plugs today.ive tried with the decompression valve and with out using it.it doesn't matter if its cold or hot it wont hardly start.it doesn't matter where I put the choke it just wont hit or fire the first time.im wondering if its a spark problem . im using high test non ethenal fuel.any help on ideas on the saw.a non starting saw makes for a bad day.i did get some of a 4foot red oak cut today and quartered with the saw . thanks for any help.

Offline Texas-Jim

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2015, 10:18:26 PM »
How do you go about starting it? I mean does it take 10 pulls or is it hard to pull, bit more info.
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Offline tlbrooks

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2015, 10:34:36 PM »
sometimes it takes 15 to 20 pulls before it hits. it would usually start in the hot position but only after many tries. when it does start it idles  and revs really well. it ran a 25 inch bar buried in a red oak pretty good to.it just doesn't wont to start.

Offline ZeroJunk

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2015, 11:38:33 PM »
Is the fast idle throttle position working ?  I have had a couple of those where the fast idle position was not opening the butterfly at all. I tried changing the linkage, then the control shaft with no luck. Then I replaced the trigger itself and the function started working properly. I guess the trigger just wore down where it slides on the switch control shaft, or maybe the tabs on the trigger had worn where it would not stay in position. I know they were a bear to start at idle speed and not throttled up some.

Offline sandsawmill14

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2015, 11:39:24 PM »
i threw the only husky saw i ever owned in the scrap metal bin when it was less than 2 years old because of the same problem dealer couldnt/wouldnt fix it. it took 8-10 pulls to start when it was new and just kept getting worse. i ran stihl saws before and ever since. just for the record i blame the DEALER not the saw >:(  hope you get it fixed soon
will be watching to see what is wrong
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Offline Texas-Jim

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2015, 01:50:53 AM »
zero has  a great point, they dont always like starting at idle. Get someone to hold trigger down when you pull it. Cant always see whats going on with filter in the way. If it starts with trigger pulled then check linkage out as zero said.
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Offline sandsawmill14

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2015, 07:21:15 AM »
  my 441 is hard to start at idle but will not start at wot so if you have some one hold throttle keep this in mind while trouble shooting. it starts good when cold and when hot i mean on first pull but if you been running it hard and let it set 5-10 min is when it is picky  ??? also this a strange development  the spark plug wire wont stay on comes of while in the cut it will sound like its missing. push wire back on runs fine it got really hard to start and i was going to change plug is how i found it. can you change the wire or is it permanently connected coil ???   you might want to check wire if you havent already :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Offline tlbrooks

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2015, 08:42:21 AM »
lots of good ideas. I don't think the saw has been used enough to wear any parts at trigger but I will check on that to see if the butterfly is opening. im still thinking spark may not be right. is there  a spark checker that can be used outside in the sunlight. my wire is so short its hard to ground. I don't use this saw a lot only when I get big stuff to cut but it seems like every tree that dies in my wood lot is big. im like you sandsawmill  ive about give up on the saw. I just put a high output oiler in to solve the oil problem. ill confess I was looking at big huskys last night online.

Offline sandsawmill14

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2015, 12:13:04 AM »
i take the plug out and put it back in the wire and set the plug on top of the jug then the wire is long enough to check and see if its firing if its not i will put new plug in and try again. its easier to check at night or at least in a darker place :) works for me anyway. btw i did get 1 new plug that wouldnt fire but only 1  ::)
far as the big huskys the big mill im sawing for now has been through 3 390 husky saws this year :o but they are hard on saws 2 galded pistons and 1 couldnt keep the screws in the recoil or muffler locktite didnt even help finally stripped housing to the point it was done. the 2 that were galded 1st 1 ran about 3 hrs and locked up dealer replaced top end ran 3 days past warranty and did it again (90 days i think is what dealer said on commercial saws) second 1 went about 4 months and might have been a might have been ok but 1 of the guys burned it up spitting big logs for my mill. he done it on the 3rd log, i dont know he did it only had a 20" bar on it. i have a 28" on my 441 mag and bought it used last december and it still runs strong. its only job is busting big logs so its pulling the full length all the time.  they got a new 461 and ms 250 to trim lumber stacks a week ago last friday. but it will be 3-4 months before we know if they hold up any better than the huskys. as i said these guys(hire hands) are hard on saws. im not putting down husky we have just had bad luck with them this year. for the record this mill has run all husky for the last 20+years
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Offline sandsawmill14

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2015, 12:18:04 AM »
i hope if  ive been good enough this year santy clause brings me a new 660/661 (whichever i can find) and a ms 250 for firewood. i get tired of the 034 or 038 both have 20" bars and i want something lighter to work up the tops :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Offline ladylake

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2015, 10:42:58 AM »
 

 As mentioned fast idle is a big deal, make sure it's working.  When hot you should try pushing the control lever all the way down to set the fast idle then back to the run position.  Also if you low adjuster is lean it won't pull fuel through good, try opening it about 1/4 turn and you might  have to turn the idle speed screw in to get the idle rpm right.  Steve
Timberking B20 14000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline tlbrooks

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2015, 03:23:21 PM »
ill check the low adjustment  also . Ill get into it in a few days finishing the big log. would the decompressor closing late/slow cause it to not start when it cold or hot?anyway thanks for the ideas ill try anything to see if it helps.

Offline tlbrooks

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2015, 04:00:59 PM »
I took the air filter out and here is what I found. with  switch all the way down to cold start the choke was fully closed . warm start the choke is fully open and butterfly partial open. when I blip the trigger the butterfly is controlled by trigger and goes to run position.   the butterfly will not go to partial open without first pulling trigger then moving switch to hot start . if I move switch without pulling trigger it does nothing to butterfly. I assume this is normal operation. 

Offline ladylake

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2015, 07:22:09 PM »


 Sounds like your fast idle is working, try opening up your low adjuster about 1/4 turn.  Maybe do a compression test also, low compression will make hard starting, do that with the compression relief closed.  As you mentioned maybe the comp relief is staying open too long but if your try starting it with it closed and it still starts hard that would eliminate that.  Steve
Timberking B20 14000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline ZeroJunk

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2015, 07:50:12 PM »
When you get all that sorted out I would richen it up about 500 RPM. That is pretty close to the edge and I don't think you gain anything from it.

Offline Texas-Jim

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2015, 07:54:28 PM »
sandsawmill14 make sure on your 441 that the top butter fly closes when you let off trigger, if it stays open any at all starting will be a bear.
What we do in life echoes through eternity.

Offline tlbrooks

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2015, 08:00:07 PM »
ive got a stihl tacometer  so i will richen it a little. i think some of my problems was when the saw first hits and i would move the switch to fast idle i didn't know i needed to go to run and then back to fast idle to get it to work.

Offline sandsawmill14

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2015, 08:54:16 PM »
i was working on it this afternoon and think i got plug wire problem solved.
 texas-jim saw starts fine if i push to switch to choke position and then back up to fast idle before i pull it. i was saying that because it was suggested to hold the throttle and try to start it and my saw wont start with any more throttle than the fast idle :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Offline ladylake

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2015, 06:56:26 AM »
When moving the lever from choke to run it should stay on fast idle unless you pull on the throttle which will kick it off fast idle.   If it was getting off fast  after firing it would take a lot of pulls to start.  Steve
Timberking B20 14000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline 49er

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Re: hard starting 660
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2015, 12:19:10 PM »
IMHO, a chainsaw was not designed to mill with. And if I was going to use one for this it would be a big one, bigger than a 390. Even then it takes a person with a keen sense of what is going on to be successful. In the end a chainsaw is a poor substitute for a band saw.
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