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Author Topic: Using Setworks to make a cut??  (Read 6181 times)

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Offline JoeyLowe

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Using Setworks to make a cut??
« on: March 20, 2002, 08:20:59 AM »
 :-/ :-/  Let me preface this question with I called Woodmizer to see if and when they would be in my area so that I could receive the day's training I have coming to me.  (Woodmizer is too far away to drive with the mill).  Looks like June/July will be the earliest date.

I have Setworks on my LT40 Super. I know how to program it and I know how to use it after my initial cut. The problem I have is with the initial cut.  A fella told me that after I make the slab cuts, to lower the blade down until it rests on top of the cant, back away from the cant and then turn on setworks and set the cut and saw away.  Problem with that is it is very difficult to get the blade right on top of the cant, thus the cut ends up too thin, not to mention the problems associated with backing up with the blade resting on the cant.

Sooooo ;D, my question is as follow:  How do you make a cut using Setworks?  I figure that I should just make my slab cut using setworks at the beginning, but I dunno??????
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Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2002, 10:16:31 AM »
Well,  we've got the Accuset but maybe I can help.

On our Accuset, there is a AutoDown and AutoUP mode.   I think this is much like the Simple setworks.

You may try this:  Run your head (sawhead that is) up to the face of the log and raise/lower it until you are happy with the face cut.  NOW, set your Setworks.  This should now store the reference position.  Make your face cut, come back,  hit the down lever and it should drop just right.  Cut, come back, down, cut and so on.

I think the only time you'd have to go back and find the top of the cant again is if and when you turn it to a face that is already opened up.

Maybe someone with Simple setworks can improve on the above directions.  :P
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Offline JoeyLowe

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2002, 06:00:23 PM »
 :D Well thanks Bibbyman!  Go ahead and color me pink and call me stupid. :o  Nothing like a little dose of common sense.  Sometimes the answer is so obvious that I overlook it.   8)  Sincerely, thanks again.  I was beginning to wonder if I was destined to make thin cuts for the rest of my life.
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Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2002, 06:54:25 PM »
Hay,  if it makes you feel better,  the first few cuts I made on the first manual WM we got back in 94,  Id cut through,  then lower (or try to lower) the head for the next cut THEN try to return the head.  :o  I bet the instructor at WM thought he had a real dummy on his hands!.::)  He was patient and help us get the blade back on, etc. and watch me closer when I got to the end of the cut.   But I got the hang of it.  

But you know what?  Ive done it a couple of times with the new mill when we were just learning all the new stuff.  All thumbs and two left feet.
8)
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Offline Tom

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2002, 07:00:42 PM »
My customers are quick to point out the deep grooves in my log dogs.

If your mill hasn't any scars, it hasn't been used. :D
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Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2002, 11:42:01 PM »
Back to the Simple setworks,  does the Simple setworks also adjust UP set amounts?

If it does,  then you can basically saw a pattern to get like a 6x6 out of the heart like we would with the Accuset on Pattern mode.

Here is how I think you could do it:  

After youve opened face ONE and cut and then face TWO and cut (like above),  turn to face THREE.  Now on face THREE,  lower your sawhead to say 6 and now re-set your Setworks to start at 6.  Then bump UP, UP, UP until you get to the open face cut that will give you the most full thickness boards.  Now reset your Setworks at this mark and saw off the face cut and then DOWN, cut,  DOWN cut, etc.  Now you may have to turn the cant 180 degrees to keep the heart centered or to release stress but you should not have to find the top of the cant again.

Face FOUR could work the same set at 6,  UP, UP, UP,  reset, cut, DOWN, cut, DOWN, turn, cut, and so on. Then youd have a pile of boards or flitches the same thickness and a 6x6 out of the middle without having to find the top of the cant or making an adjustment cut.

This is basically how Tom and I have pattern sawn for years on a mill without setworks.  But wed start on the 6 mark and go 6+1+5/8=7-5/8, 6+1+5/8 + 1+5/8 = 9-1/4, 6+1 aHhaa CRAP!  >:( 6+1.. :P
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Offline JoeyLowe

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2002, 12:49:58 PM »
 :D I dunno Bibbyman, but I'm willing to give it a try.  Just printed this off and I'm headed to the mill to see if it does.  If so, I can see using that tomorrow.  I have twenty logs to mill into 2x6's.


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Offline Bud Man

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2002, 01:36:09 PM »
JL    Take good notes --we want a report after tomorrow's 20 logs are whittled on !!  I'm trying to learn as you saw and Bibbyman tutors !!   8) 8)
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Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2002, 04:48:57 PM »
Bud Man,  I can just see you now setting on a bar stool with stacks of boxes, phone books and peach cans stacked in front of you to simulate a Command Control station going: SAW, SAW, SAW,  DOWN, SAW, TURN, CLAMP,  SAW, SAW, SAW.  Next log! :o

(Maybe down in Mt. Vernon, we'll have to drag one mill around back and take turns wacking logs up. ::))
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Offline L. Wakefield

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2002, 05:51:59 PM »
   Well, I guess that'd be more fun than Jeff's practice control booth, which  was actually IN the can.. :D :D :D  lw
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Offline Bud Man

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2002, 08:57:02 PM »
Bibbyman  I'm like a kid counting down the days till Christmas,  reading my manuals Wood-Mizer sent, and instead of cans -I'm using whole loaves of bread and a bread knife.  I'm gonna hafta stop with the bread though cause I've gained about 5 pounds allready :o  I'm game for anything that will shorten the learning curve and I'm open for any advise  :P Pour It on me.  ;)
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2002, 04:55:23 AM »
Bud Man,  :P The more studying the better but don't be too disappointed if you don't start off on top of that learning curve.  

My old Uncle Chick with the circle mill ran off a steam engine told me it would take 20 years to learn the sawmill business - and by then you would have studied enough to have earned a degree in engineering.   ;)
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Offline JoeyLowe

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2002, 07:03:37 AM »
Hang in there Budman.  Just 40 more days!  I put the B57's on this morning and I'm headed to the pinewoods again.  Will post photos when done.
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Offline JoeyLowe

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2002, 04:13:22 PM »
 8) Bibbyman:

Setworks doesn't work in reverse.  You can only autoset down, not up. ;D
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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2002, 04:26:11 PM »
Allright    Joey,  quit that dodging the issue with whether autoset will go up from the deck,  ::)  we want the report on those  20 logs,  and how much you beat scale by with that  Wood-Mizer  ;D  " Fess Up  & Come Clean"
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Offline JoeyLowe

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2002, 05:04:37 PM »
 :D

Oh alright!  So far I have milled 8 of the 20 logs.  Took all afternoon to do that since I had trouble turning that mill around on a collapsing bridge. :o

The first log was pine and measured 28" x 10'.  Made a slab cut, turned it 180 degrees and the log fell apart.  Was rotten through and through.  Still was heavy though.  Got it off the mill and onward and upward.  The next 7 logs averaged 15" by 10'.  Doyle sez that works out to 532 BF.  I cut all 2 x 6's and came out with forty-two 2 x 6 x 10 good boards or 420 BF.  A lot less than Doyle scale.

I think that problem was in my slab cuts.  Some of slabs I cut were thicker than normal.  Some of the boards fell apart or were thicker on end than the other so I didn't count those.  Probably the best thing was that I only had two hours of actual sawing time.  Although I did try to amputate one of my log dogs on the last cut of the day.  Lesson learned, "When your tired or frustrated, wrap it up and go home!"

This brings up an interesting question that I was going to ask under a new thread but I'll mention it here instead.  How do you guys level a log for cutting?  Using the toeboards, do you eyeball for level?  What is your reference point on the log?  Do you measure the center of each end of the log to the mill deck and keep those measurements the same?  Is there an easier way?  It is very frustrating as a newbie, to make a slab cut that is obviously too thick or to end up with a cant that is thicker on one end than the other.  Also, do you point the small end of the log towards the front of the mill or the large end?  Why?
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Offline Bud Man

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2002, 05:45:47 PM »
Joey  Everything you mentioned as to slab waste I experienced, in working with Macurtis, but we had the advantage of there being the Two of us. We relied on the toeboards and visual leveling from the side of the log with the two of us coming up with some hand signaling routines.  I guess expertise will come with experience, but my mind has been filled with the implementation of using a mirror on the other end of the mill to be able to see the pith position height  and for top leveling aid.  Time and or maybe some expertise shared from some other sawyers will help us both...Huh ?? :P
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

Offline Tom

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2002, 06:01:23 PM »
Here is "an" answer but not "the" answer.  You will probably find that there isn't a "the" answer.

When I saw construction or sheeting pieces:

I start by trying to keep the heart (center) level. (no measuring)  If you site a spot on both log dogs you will assume a line parallel with the bed that is close to the heart of the log.  I raise the toe board under the small end of the log until a line drawn between the centers of the two ends of the log is parallel with the line I drew across the log dogs.  You site it the same as you would a rifle with open sites. (no, it won't be perfect)

"Art" enters when the log isn't straight.

For a slab, you don't concern yourself with what you are cutting off, but rather the width of the face you are opening up.  If you are cutting 4" wide stuff then the face has to be 4" or at least wide enough that dressing takes the wane off of the board.

If you are cutting a 10 foot log, then you may be able to get a another inch or better out of the log by creating an 8 foot long face on the first cut by not entering the log until the blade is 2 feet beyond the closest end.

I try to keep the small end of the log towards me.  A log is only as big as its little end.  If the little end is at the other end of the mill then you have to judge the exit point of the blade at a distance of the length of the log rather than the entry point of blade.. With the small end of the log closest to you, it makes it a lot easier to hit your mark.

If you were playing golf, wouldn't you rather have a 2 foot put to a 40 foot put? :D


Once you've turned the log such that a flat surface is resting on the mill, make sure all of your toe boards are down.

If you've cut parallel to the heart (center) then the grain will be centered on the boards and a minimal number (1 or 2) boards will have pith in them.

There is another thread (and also the knowledge base) that provides other information that needs to be considered when lining up a log for squaring the cant.  "Heart Check", "Reaction Wood", and "Bow"..

Wood Mizer used to put a 6 inch spring , likened to a screen door spring, on a bolt attached to the tower tube closest to the sawyer.  It stuck out toward the log and could be used to site across it and the blade to arrive at a straight line down the mill.  It helped to level logs and to judge entry points.  You may find the installation of something like that helpful until you get used to "eyeballing" logs.

Some folks call it "reading the log".  That makes you more sophisticated, kinda' like having a title. :D
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Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2002, 06:25:32 PM »
Well,  I was working on a response and by the time I got back to post it, Tom had it covered.  :P

I'm going to post it anyway - just in case Tom missed something - although that's not likely.

To start with,  I always have the logs positioned so the small end is towards the sawhead.  Just let it be known,  some like always to saw from the big end to the small end.  Some dont care.  And when you are sawing logs someone else has bunched for you,  you may as well not care because it would not be practical to turn half of them around.

That being said,  to split taper saw,  measure from the sawbed to the center of the log (not necessarily the heart because the heart may be off center) on both ends.  Then use your toeboard on the low end to level it out.  Youll need to double check your measurements after bumping up the toeboard because the high end may tip down some.  One tip,  if you cant conveniently measure from the bed rail,  you can measure to some of the support frame work below the bed rail and subtract 6 at least on a Wood-Mizer.  

After a few thousand logs sawn, youll get to where youll just eyeball the toe adjustment on low quality sawing like farm lumber and blocking.  

I think somewhere on this forum I wrote quite an extensive explanation of sawing and opening up a face on a log, logs with sweep (curve),  full taper sawing, etc.  Maybe you can page back through the Sawmill and Milling folder and find it.  Even Jeff had some comments about my little essay.  

See if this connects you to the area I done went and done it... thread.

http://www.forestryforum.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=sawmill&action=display&num=1009941469&start=20
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Offline Bud Man

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Re: Using Setworks to make a cut??
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2002, 06:51:57 PM »
You two guys  8) opened my eyes as to using the dogs as a rifle sight. Macurtis did most all the sawing and I did the hand signaling and didn't think of using the dogs cause I was always on the right side or lift side. We did make some use of cut off slabs by making a 4" or 6" or 8" wide entry cut in a new side as we turned. Sure pays to ask questions and your sharing of experiences is most appreciated.  Thank's  The mirror thing is going to haunt me till I try it though !! :D  Time will tell !
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant


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