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Baby steps

Started by nektreeworks, October 25, 2015, 10:46:06 PM

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nektreeworks

Hello all. I recently have been searching around for a smaller tractor to use for pulling small logs out of the awkward places I find myself doing some tree jobs (amazing the jobs people want done when they see you can handle a saw half decently). I have been looking at the older for 8 and 9n tractors as they would be in my price range and seem like they would be capable of doing the work I am looking to do (as a 16 year old it's sort of hard to balance work and play along with other things). I am just wondering what some of your guys feelings and opinions are on these tractors as for being used in the woods. Thanks all,
                                    Riley

beenthere

If the older Fords are of interest, I'd suggest only the 8N. It comes with individual rear brakes and both brake pedals on the right side, with clutch pedal on the left. The others of that era have the brake pedals on the side that the wheel is on... i.e left brake on left side near the clutch which is difficult to operate in tight spots.
I do like the 8N for logging... Watch your p's and q's as they are some light in the front end and you need to balance log weight on the 3 ph and front end weight, and often steer with the brakes.

A good working 8N around here is in the $4000 neighborhood for price. But that is in good condition for engine, hydraulics, tranny, and tires.

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

azmtnman

The nice thing about those old Fords is great parts availability. Besides replacement parts, you can get electronic ignition and all sorts of goodies.
  I don't know your location, but in the Midwest you can find a beat up 8N for $1500 or less that's still mechanically in good shape. The Jubilees, NAAs, and 600 series Fords can be bought reasonably also and have almost double the HP (8N is 17 HP, my NAA is 30-something) and have hydraulic and pto upgrades with the same basic 8N design.
  If I was going to use it in hilly terrain, I would install a ROPS.
1983 LT 30, 1990 Kubota L3750DT, 2006 Polaris 500 EFI, '03 Dodge D2500 Cummins powered 4X4 long-bed crew cab, 1961 Ford backhoe, Stihl MS250, MS311 and MS661--I cut trees for my boss who was a Jewish carpenter!

nektreeworks

Thanks for the reply. I was definitely leaning towards the 8n for the exact same reason that you stated. Brake pedals on both sides just seems a little bit weird. And I am quite aware of the light front ends of most tractors but these do seem to look very light. Are there any modifications that you would suggest for this type of tractor to make it better suited for woods use?

47sawdust

Your forum name leads me to think you are in Vermont.That means rough terrain.Some type of ROPS would be mandatory,front end weights as well.The tractor you mentioned will work if you work within it's limitations.Go slow,think a couple steps ahead, and load light.We want to see you grow to old age.Tire chains,good ones!
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Autocar

I would be very careful using a little Ford tractor you can flip a tractor over on to yourself so quick it's not funny. Any time you pick anything up with the three point hitch your lifting that front end up. Just my two cents but you should read up on the minny skidder the fellow is building. Years ago I bought a M460 Vemeer trencher back hoe for $850.00 it was low to the ground and it had a push blade on the front it would pull a pretty big load and always stayed on the ground. Not that you don't understand the dangers of pulling logs but things can happen as fast as lighting stricking. Good luck and be careful.
Bill

pineywoods

Back in my younger days, 8N fords and their close cousins massey ferguson 35/135 were the skidders of choice in the woods of the deep south. Fitted with a good set of tongs on the 3 pt hitch, they made a workable pore mans grapple skidder. Brakes on most 8n's was poor or non-existant. Chronic problem wasn't the brakes themselves, but the axle seals. They leaked rear end grease on the brake shoes. Most owners pulled the axles and installed 2 seals back to back. Front end loaders could be had, but don't. The front suspension is rather light duty. The massey cousins are a bit more desireable, more power, dual range tranny, live pto, perkins diesel engines optional. An option on both models is an 8 volt battery replacing the standard 6 volt
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

North River Energy

If you already have the tractor, that's one thing.  Otherwise, there's plenty of suitable iron out there that might work better.
I used my Toyota FJ40 for a couple of firewood seasons.  Would not use it today on account of value on the collectors market, but it pulled well, got into tight spaces, and had plenty of traction/steering in the front end on account of the massive 6cyl engine.  At the time it was preferable to the family 8n.
Depending on what you plan to pull, and where you plan to pull it, you might consider an older Jeep with loaded tires/chains, and maybe mount a Fisher plow frame to the rear end in place of the 3pt lift.
You'll beat it to death eventually, but by then should have developed a better idea of what you really need for future work.
Also, the front/rear track difference on the 8n makes it a pain to trailer without modified ramps.

nektreeworks

Quote from: 47sawdust on October 26, 2015, 07:33:53 AM
Your forum name leads me to think you are in Vermont.That means rough terrain.Some type of ROPS would be mandatory,front end weights as well.The tractor you mentioned will work if you work within it's limitations.Go slow,think a couple steps ahead, and load light.We want to see you grow to old age.Tire chains,good ones!
Yeah terrain around these parts isn't exactly the nicest

beenthere

NRE
Quotethe front/rear track difference on the 8n makes it a pain to trailer without modified ramps.

IIRC we changed the spacing on the front and rear wheels fairly often to adapt to different spacing of corn plantings and such. Seems could adapt to trailer ramps too, but may not be able to go narrow enough. 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

nektreeworks

My reasoning behind the small ford tractor is mainly the price point of it. As a 16 year old working seasonal work I don't exactly make enough money to be able to spend a lot of money on something even though I would love to haha

thecfarm

Weren't those 8n a little high geared?   :o  Without the sherman shift. I grew with a '54 Ford,nice and slow in first gear. I myself would not want a 2 wheel drive tractor in the woods. Downhill with a load behind is like the tail wagging the dog. I have a 4wd now and what a diffeance. More control and much safer. Yes,cost much more too,but so much better.
And the '54 had both brakes on the right side,clutch on the left. My Father had an 8n or 9n. Traded it for the '54,had bigger tires,better motor,better gearing and seem like a few more things he liked better too.
There is a knack to getting wood out with a tractor too. I have seen some fancy braking and swearing by my Father many many times.   ;D
And without a winch on the back it is slow,slow and more slow. I use to be the chain guy. My Father would drive and I would hook and unhook the logs. Sometimes we only got 10 feet at a time. With three 16 foot chains hooked together it was slow. But it was a fun time too.Lots of memories to look back on.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Pine Ridge

Great to see young guys with a real interest, best of luck in your tractor search and be safe.
Husqvarna 550xp , 2- 372xp and a 288xp, Chevy 4x4 winch truck

Hilltop366

My brother uses a 1985 MF 210 with a small logging winch to collect fire wood.

It is amazingly agile with good ground clearance and will run all day on a few dollars of diesel, power steering would be nice but the standard steering has never failed.


Puffergas

Check to see if your state has a ROP program.

A winch is the checkers but will cost more than the tractor.



My smallest tractor.
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

North River Energy

Just to be clear, I'm not disparaging the 8n.  I grew up operating, repairing and getting into all sorts of trouble with our 1950 model. And was repeatedly reminded of the friend of the friend of the neighbor who got careless and dead on account of a rollover.
Any tractor is probably better than no tractor, but you should be exceptionally mindful of exceeding it's design and capability.  If you are doing management work on land that already has graded roads, or is relatively flat and free of large rock, a small tractor like the 8n would do a good job.  'Free-range' it may pose more of a liability and/or risk, given it's light weight, short wheelbase, lack of ROPS/canopy etc.
If you have a limited budget, one of the last things you need to buy is a compromise. Particularly when the compromise is driven by price rather than utility. Sometimes it's better to work with fierce efficiency on a limited scale, sharpening your focus and surgically planning the next move, than it is to buy a piece of equipment and then try to find the best way to employ it.

BTW, did a 'Jeep CJ' search on CLNH, and found a running woods buggy with winch, locked differentials and armor plated tub for 1500.

Regardless, good luck with the endeavor. :)

kiko

I think you would be better off with an atv and a log arch than a 8n.  These tractors were made to a plow in a field.  Sure they were used for logging, because those people were trying to feed their self and families,  not making extra cash. I usually say " IMO" in these post, but not this time!  The 8/9n will kill you. Dead .

Straightgrain

Awesome seeing a young man who wants to work..salute!

An 8n will work if you work within its limitations. If you don't have an FEL, 4WD, and or a winch on your tractor, you will have to modify how logs are typically brought to the trail; where they can be skidded to the log deck.

Here is my example when all I had was an ATV and a home made arch: I selected a beefy tree and secure a snatched block to it @ 10 feet high. I ran a 100 foot cable through the block and pulled the felled-logs from the safety of a level trail. 

Once the logs were on a level spot, I would skid them to the deck for butchering into firewood.

Second point for you; skidding. Using all three points of attachment on the back of your tractor will improve your productivity; you must allow for a 90 degree turn as you rig logs for skidding. There are lots of 3 point skidding hitches on the market.

Third point; ROPS. As mentioned earlier, a seat belt and a roll over protective structure will save your life if the tractor rolls...watch out for low limbs against the roll bar, the tractor will keep on trucking and pop a wheely if you hit a big oak limb.

Be safe, live to be an old man.
"We fight for and against not men and things as they are, but for and against the caricatures we make of them". Joseph Schumpeter

beenthere

I think the 8N would run circles around an ATV getting logs out of the woods, even if there wasn't a logging arch to go with it.
And they can be safe, depending on the operator.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

kiko

An 8n is among the safest of all logging tractors when it won't start.  Almost all respondents have mentioned the major safety issues with these tractors.  Most of them have probably actually been there and that's how they know. It is defiantly how I know. The dead don't know what happened. All equipment safety is depended upon the operator, so that point is invalid in this case.  I am done with my rant and since I have been there I won't be back here.

mills

Back when we used tractors, 8N, 135, 240, 860 ..., Dad had us hook to a grader blade and run with the blade turned backwards. It was supposed to be a last ditch safety device, but I remember getting several butt chewings for using it as a wheelie bar.  :-\

beenthere

kiko
QuoteI am done with my rant and since I have been there I won't be back here.

I "been there" too.. and logged a fair thousands of bdft of logs with the 8N.  just sayin....

Appreciate your contribution and input on safety.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Corley5

  My family has used farm tractors extensively for logging.  That's what we had.  My grandpa skidded and loaded LOTS of logs with a narrow front H Farmall.  I wouldn't necessarily recommend it but it can be done.  My biggest concern about a tractor in the woods isn't rollover it's something falling on the tractor operator.  Many operators have been killed by falling trees and limbs running machines in the woods that didn't have a strong canopy.  A strong roof over your head is very important.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

azmtnman

Quote from: beenthere on October 27, 2015, 07:44:04 AM
kiko
QuoteI am done with my rant and since I have been there I won't be back here.

I "been there" too.. and logged a fair thousands of bdft of logs with the 8N.  just sayin....

Appreciate your contribution and input on safety.

X2
I think we can get so caught up into "have to have this or that" that we can stop ourselves before we get started or become slaves to some banker.
1983 LT 30, 1990 Kubota L3750DT, 2006 Polaris 500 EFI, '03 Dodge D2500 Cummins powered 4X4 long-bed crew cab, 1961 Ford backhoe, Stihl MS250, MS311 and MS661--I cut trees for my boss who was a Jewish carpenter!

terry f

   A sixteen year old pulling a log with a 8N is a recipe for disaster, even though its probably been done by most of the members here. I would think a old skidder with no winch and bald tires would still be a better choice for about the same money, or even a old pickup.

nektreeworks

Quote from: terry f on October 27, 2015, 04:34:25 PM
   A sixteen year old pulling a log with a 8N is a recipe for disaster, even though its probably been done by most of the members here. I would think a old skidder with no winch and bald tires would still be a better choice for about the same money, or even a old pickup.
Since my old pickup ended up rolled over in a swamp about two months ago I'm out on that option haha. That being said, it also taught me a lot about balance and taking things slow. Thank you for your input though! I would like to provide a little bit of background on myself. I am in my first year in the two year forestry program at my local high school. We log with tractors (although a bit bigger than an old ford) and have logged off and on for a friend over the last couple years. Mainly what I do myself is little work for driveway clearing and things like that up up camps and such. Although lately I have been finding myself in situations where even a little tractor like the 8n would be adequate to pull logs where I am working. These aren't rocky or hilly stretches, they are fairly straight and flat places. It's just enough for me to get started until I am able to start work back up in the summer and look for something a little bit bigger and better. I appreciate all of your comments and appreciate your concerns for my safety and I definitely planned on adding things such as a ROPS and seatbelt. thank you all again,
         Riley

SAnVA

Hey, 8n Fords have done lots of small scale logging in my area by farmers and people on a small budget. You can find a decent one in my area for $1500 -$2000 but if you could swing it I would recommend a 35 or 135 Ferguson and a decent one in my area can be had for around $3000 just more weight, better gearing, power steering is a big plus but you will be steering with brakes a lot, I have a 1967 135 MF and use it with a shortened boom pole with log tongs just keep your lift as low as possible and keep your hand on the lift lever at all times and stay within your tractors limits, which you will learn very quickly! Be careful!

Puffergas

About every other year some dies from a tractor roll over around here. Most of the time brush hogging too close to a ditch. A few years ago an ATV roll got somebody. PTO got a gal's hair, tore the scalp off. If the tractor don't get yah the chain saw will.

This is the anti nose over design that I need to keep working on. Maybe when the snow piles up.

Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

nektreeworks

Thanks again everyone for the help. I appreciate the input and I certainly am taking everything in and am looking over my options to see what I can get for a set up. It's so great to have people nice enough to help someone just getting started

Maine logger88

I'm with kiko on this one I have twitched wood with bigger tractors and that's dangerous enough. The 8n or similar tractors are probably the most dangerous thing to pull wood with If you decide to go that route then pull light loads and always have your foot on the clutch. But for what they get for those things you could get a bigger safer machine
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

donny hochstetler

I don't want to discourage someone for pursuing a dream ; especialy some  young guy;  but be very very careful  ; just about every post on here says either not to do it or b  careful its not a matter of if something will happen its a matter of when and if you will be lucky or not; many have had close calls n have lived for another day ; many have not  ; just my thoughts  I have never skidded with a tractor but have run about every cable machine out there ; I'm running a 640d deere n like it very well ; 30 yrs in da woods you get to c the ugly as well as the good; the good far outweighs the ugly;  helped load up my dad one day; we thought he was dead; but he pulled through;  never been the same since; b careful; lad

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