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Author Topic: New Guy with my Sawmill Build  (Read 12707 times)

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Offline Jimmysmill13

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2015, 12:35:41 PM »
Wow... Looking good.
 I also think that you will need a spring-loaded idler pulley on your belts.
When sawing the belts will warm up and start to slip. I use a back idler
on my setup spring loaded and it really made a difference.
I also used Cooks bamdsaw guide wheels and they work great.
I also use the 13hp engine. Don't put to much set in your blades and
you will be good with that HP. I bet that like me you will be making a
bolt on extension soon.

Thanks!

I will definitely have a spring loaded idler

Offline Jimmysmill13

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2015, 12:37:51 PM »
The pictures look great.
A couple of questions:
* What band speed are you planning?
* How fast will the guide bearings be spinning?

With that speed I guess these bearing will not be lasting very long.

I am look at around 4000 to 5000fpm, I will have a 13hp engine.

I am not sure what the speed will be on the bearings at this point.
If the OD of the bearings is 1 1/2", and your blade is traveling at 5000 sfpm, your guides will be spinning at about 12,732 rpm. That's pretty dog gone quick.

Offline Jimmysmill13

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2015, 12:46:16 PM »
Jimmy, welcome to The Forestry Forum.
Great looking build so far. I will agree with ljohnsaw on your blade tensioner, but it wouldn't be a big deal to use the other wheel for your drive wheel and flip your blade inside out, from the looks of things.
Just a random question, did you already flip the blade inside out to make it saw the direction you are showing in the pics? I ask because both mills I've had they come to me with the teeth going the opposite of what you show. I don't know if it matters a bit, just curious.

Thanks!

Yes the direction you see is the way I set it up. My though process on this at the time was I didn't know if the drive belt would have issues being that the other side is designed for adjusting my toe. I was thinking I would have some alignment issues. I maybe wrong on this. I guess its going to be trial and error at this point.

Offline Jimmysmill13

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2015, 12:58:09 PM »
Your mill looks nice and very rugged with many well-thought-out things on it.  Takes longer than you think, huh?  :)
The only thing that stands out to my eyes is your driven shaft, not the idle shaft.  The pulley to be driven by the engine is quite a ways away from the pillow block bearing.  I'm afraid you're going to have shaft breakage problems.  I'm thinking somehow the space between the pulley and the outboard pillow block needs to be smaller.  I would also recommend using red locktite on all the pillow block bearings.  Smear it all over the shaft and the set screws.  This will keep them from constantly loosening up.  This is for use with the cheap Chinese bearings.  The expensive US bearings probably won't have this problem.  Use heat to get the loctite to let loose for repairs if needed.  The guide bearings you're using are used by many mills.  They wear out pretty fast but are cheap and easy to replace as well.  Keep some gear oil in/on the ball bearings inside and they'll last a good long while.  Gear oil is a high pressure, high shear load oil with lots of sulfur in it (hence the smell) that uses that sulfur and a sacrificial wear surface that gets replenished using more oil on the next revolution (in an oil bath gearbox).  If you have any more questions, this is the best place to get them!  I'm not aware of any other place on the internet with a collection of so many smart, capable men from so many walks of life.  Collectively, we can do anything.
Nice looking homemade mill, buddy.  You have really nailed alot of the common problems with homemade jobbers.

Thanks!

Yes it is taking me much longer than I was thinking. I don't plan on having it even operational till spring.

The drive shaft is long at the moment but that is because I haven't purchased the engine yet and didn't want to cut the shaft till I had all the final dimension worked out. It should be much short in the end. Yes these are the cheap pillow block bearing so I will put lock tight on as you indicated.

I have some 80w gear oil to use on the bearings.

 Thanks again for all the info all you guys have been extremely helpfully. 

Offline Jimmysmill13

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2015, 01:05:02 PM »

 Thank you all for the much appreciated input on the mill so far. I will add more photos of the progress but I may not get much more done till after the holidays.

I do have question on the blade tensioning. How do I know how much tension is right for the blade and is there and easy way to determine this or do in need to add some sort of tension gauge for the blade? 

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2015, 01:16:53 PM »
I will be adding a spring loaded idler pulley and I haven't come up with a design yet but I think I am also going to have the motor be able to slide for belt adjustments. 
Rather than an idler pulley and sliding motor I would think toward a motor hinge/pivot/turnbuckle arrangement such as WM uses.  This would take care of your drive belt tension as well as your "clutch".
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Offline Jimmysmill13

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2015, 01:39:26 PM »
I will be adding a spring loaded idler pulley and I haven't come up with a design yet but I think I am also going to have the motor be able to slide for belt adjustments. 
Rather than an idler pulley and sliding motor I would think toward a motor hinge/pivot/turnbuckle arrangement such as WM uses.  This would take care of your drive belt tension as well as your "clutch".


I like that idea to, it may keep things looking clean and simple on this mill.

Offline Den-Den

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2015, 01:53:11 PM »

 Thank you all for the much appreciated input on the mill so far. I will add more photos of the progress but I may not get much more done till after the holidays.

I do have question on the blade tensioning. How do I know how much tension is right for the blade and is there and easy way to determine this or do in need to add some sort of tension gauge for the blade?

A tension gauge is a nice feature, not sure it is necessary but you do need a way to set the tension so that it is repeatable between blade changes.  Some mills are set up so that a torque wrench is used to turn a screw that tensions the blade, I have heard that works fine once you figure how much works for your set-up.
From what I can tell, more tension is better than less as far as cutting is concerned but it also causes more wear and tear on shafts, bearings etc.  Excess tension will also cause tracking problems if the frame or shafts deflect enough to affect alignment.
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2015, 04:10:25 PM »
I think your going to need track rollers. The belt idlers wont take the weight very well...
They are not that expensive on E-nay.

4" Temper Steel Gate V Groove Wheel Slide Roll Sliding Driveway Gate V Track

 

 
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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2015, 04:56:52 PM »
The blade guides do stay in alignment. I made the guides adjustable in every direction if for some reason they become out of alignment.
What I was getting at is as you slide the guide close to or far from your log, it needs to remain the exact same height from the log bunks so you cut true/square cants.  Mine is off by about 1/8" at the extremes.
I plan on using some vacuum cleaner hose to help keep the dust out of the treads.
Nice idea - does it expand/contract in length?
I will be operating the mill from the idler pulley side and pushing forward. The engine shaft would be facing me and the motors shaft rotation is counter clockwise so the blade will be moving to the right as the teeth direction indicate. I may not fully understand you last question on this so let me know if that makes any sense at all.
I was just commenting on the direction your teeth face - no real question other than if you had to reverse the blade by turning inside out.

What is the T handle used for on the drive side?  It looks like it is used to tension the blade but will also affect the engine belt tension.  I think it should only serve one purpose.  You could use it to tension the engine belt and use another on the idle side for blade tension.  When you are cutting (from the idle side), you will want to be able to adjust the blade tension without walking around to the other side.  In my experience, I tighten my blade to the point where it stops fluttering too much.  And sometime a little more as I watch it cut.

For track wheels, I picked up 3.5" cheap cast iron snatch blocks.  Got 10 for $35.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Jimmysmill13

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2015, 05:48:56 PM »
The blade guides do stay in alignment. I made the guides adjustable in every direction if for some reason they become out of alignment.
What I was getting at is as you slide the guide close to or far from your log, it needs to remain the exact same height from the log bunks so you cut true/square cants.  Mine is off by about 1/8" at the extremes.

I see what your getting at now. I know there are close but I have to go out and check the accuracy of this.

I plan on using some vacuum cleaner hose to help keep the dust out of the treads.
Nice idea - does it expand/contract in length?

Yes it will expand and contract the down side is I just threw away an old vacuum that had what i am planning on using.
I will have to find some more.
 
I will be operating the mill from the idler pulley side and pushing forward. The engine shaft would be facing me and the motors shaft rotation is counter clockwise so the blade will be moving to the right as the teeth direction indicate. I may not fully understand you last question on this so let me know if that makes any sense at all.
I was just commenting on the direction you teeth face - no real question other than if you had to reverse the blade by turning inside out.

I didn't turn the blade inside out that I know of, unless I did it unknowingly.

What is the T handle used for on the drive side?  It looks like it is used to tension the blade but will also affect the engine belt tension.  I think it should only serve one purpose.  You could use it to tension the engine belt and use another on the idle side for blade tension.  When you are cutting (from the idle side), you will want to be able to adjust the blade tension without walking around to the other side.  In my experience, I tighten my blade to the point where it stops fluttering too much.  And sometime a little more as I watch it cut.

The T handle is only for setting the tension on the blade. I haven't figured out exactly what I am doing about the belt tension yet. I may have to do as you are advising and switch it to the idle side. My concern on the idle side is this is also how I set my toe. Do you think this will cause and issue with the belt and pulleys?

For track wheels, I picked up 3.5" cheap cast iron snatch blocks.  Got 10 for $35.

I like the snatch blocks, this would allow me to keep the current rail I am running.

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2015, 06:06:22 PM »
I made toe adjustments for both side - it is/was necessary for my machine (using spare tires).

How wide is your rail?  My pulleys are about 1/2" wide groove, made for 3/8" cable.  My track is 1/4" angle iron, upright.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline breazyears

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2015, 06:56:13 PM »
Welcome to the site.
 Using 1" shaft with the go-cart hubs will not last long. I say this from experience. I had 1" shaft on one side of my mill and it bent, then broke quite fast.
 I ended up with 1"3/8 shaft and it has held up fine.
 I like your mill. Listen to the advise people on this site provide, it helped me greatly.
 Nice job... Keep us updated.

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2015, 08:08:30 PM »
Welcome to the forum Jimmysmill13!
I won't repeat what's been said. What I will say is, nice job. I like the way that you have your pillow blocks spread out. I got mine too close together, and have to replace shafts way more often than I'd like. I would recommend putting some split locking collars on the shafts to keep them from being able to move.
The only other concern I have would be for the carriage wheels. It looks to me like you used idler pulleys. I don't think they will hold up long. But I've been wrong before.  ;)

Thanks!

I did put some collars with set screws on do think this should be a split lock instead?

I am not sure if the idler pulleys will hold up either. I did make them easy to switch out if one goes bad. It just a pin and collar holding them in place. It was away cheaper option then rail wheels.
Yes, the collars with set screws only have the screws, and the small section of the shaft just opposite holding. Where the split collars are actually gripping/squeezing all the way around the shaft. They will hold way better.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2015, 08:16:16 PM »
The T handle is only for setting the tension on the blade. I haven't figured out exactly what I am doing about the belt tension yet. I may have to do as you are advising and switch it to the idle side. My concern on the idle side is this is also how I set my toe. Do you think this will cause and issue with the belt and pulleys?

Looking at the pictures, your motor mount is attached to the main frame, right?  So, as you tension your blade, you are also moving the shaft farther from the motor mount, right?  That is why I was saying it is doing both.  For engaging the saw, you have three options.  You can have a centripetal clutch, an electric clutch (I have that now, part of the lawn tractor engine) or a lever activated belt tension system (had that in my first iteration).  With how you have your blade tension potentially affecting your drive belt tension, I think the lever tension system would be your best option at this point.  Then your idle side can remain as it is now.  But I think you need to figure out a way to adjust toe (easily) on the drive side as well.  You certainly can elongate the holes on one of your pillow block mount plates, but that is not an easy field adjustment.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline 21incher

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2015, 08:27:53 PM »
Welcome to the Forestry Forum. Great job on the mill. My little mill uses 1 1/2" shafts with the 16" wheels centered between them and no overhang. You may need to go with much larger shafts  to keep the blade tension from flexing the shafts. :)
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Offline Jimmysmill13

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2016, 06:36:50 PM »
Here is a update on the saw mill I have been building. It has been a while since my last post but here is what I have done. I have added a  13HP engine, Centrifugal Clutch, and Idler pulley.  I have also modified a few things taken from all your recommendations. Things like blade direction and the drive wheel is now on the left wheel. Today I was able to fire it up and run a couple test runs on the mill. I must say that I am more then pleased. I was surprised how well it cut. The cut was straight and the surface was very smooth. The thickness from one side to the other was only off about a 1/32" to 1/16".

The next step is to add:
 
Battery for engine
Tank for lubricant
Blade Guard
Guard for Acme Thread. 
Height Gauge
 

Offline Jimmysmill13

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2016, 07:14:08 PM »
Here are the Photos

















Offline Ox

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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2016, 09:58:27 PM »
Another success story - well done!
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Re: New Guy with my Sawmill Build
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2016, 10:35:01 PM »
Here is a update on the saw mill I have been building. It has been a while since my last post but here is what I have done. I have added a  13HP engine, Centrifugal Clutch, and Idler pulley.  I have also modified a few things taken from all your recommendations. Things like blade direction and the drive wheel is now on the left wheel. Today I was able to fire it up and run a couple test runs on the mill. I must say that I am more then pleased. I was surprised how well it cut. The cut was straight and the surface was very smooth. The thickness from one side to the other was only off about a 1/32" to 1/16".

The next step is to add:
 
Battery for engine
Tank for lubricant
Blade Guard
Guard for Acme Thread. 
Height Gauge
  <br --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/user/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/media/831C1DB5-2C3E-41EB-90B4-ACA5AF3430F4_zpsqubvrywy.jpg.html][img width=650 --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/r627/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/831C1DB5-2C3E-41EB-90B4-ACA5AF3430F4_zpsqubvrywy.jpg[/img]http://[/URL]
<br --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/user/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/media/874477C3-6A98-4F4E-B8B2-22F9AC39D06F_zpsug0vepzq.jpg.html][img width=650 --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/r627/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/874477C3-6A98-4F4E-B8B2-22F9AC39D06F_zpsug0vepzq.jpg[/img][/URL]
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<br --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/user/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/media/383D8414-610A-4C0B-B0F4-CD69E54A8829_zpsz6zlq0tp.jpg.html][img width=650 --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/r627/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/383D8414-610A-4C0B-B0F4-CD69E54A8829_zpsz6zlq0tp.jpg[/img][/URL]
<br --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/user/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/media/C4B16B28-FECD-463F-8778-2E4B8665D02D_zpscjcxom6o.jpg.html][img width=650 --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/r627/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/C4B16B28-FECD-463F-8778-2E4B8665D02D_zpscjcxom6o.jpg[/img]http://[/URL]
<br --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/user/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/media/544681E9-2DE1-42A9-AFA8-7E622B807150_zpsdvpgvnju.jpg.html][img width=650 --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/r627/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/544681E9-2DE1-42A9-AFA8-7E622B807150_zpsdvpgvnju.jpg[/img][/URL]
<br --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/user/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/media/ACF5745D-D3CB-4928-BAA3-D66ABFE17F98_zpst64turee.jpg.html][img width=650 --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/r627/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/ACF5745D-D3CB-4928-BAA3-D66ABFE17F98_zpst64turee.jpg[/img]http://[/URL]
<br --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/user/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/media/C76C44A3-52D4-48E0-A5E1-B044F7085CC0_zpsibivzs6p.jpg.html][img width=650 --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/r627/James_M_Schlosser_Jr/C76C44A3-52D4-48E0-A5E1-B044F7085CC0_zpsibivzs6p.jpg[/img][/URL]
Well done and sure looks nice.Now I'm asking what did it cost American $ wise Cause it would cost me about 40k Canadian to build one like that,I have 2 mills one is a Norwood's and its older and also a Trim Saw.Sure its rusty and needs work Here in Canada people think $20.00 would buy it  :) .Paid 6k but never got it work,to busy working else where,So I asking 2,500.00 but people figure its way out of ball park.Anything less well the hot wrench can turn it scrap for me or turn into a trailer for the logs & lumber. ::)But just wondering what it cost you for yours up this stage,Material & wages of building it. ;) 
Lives to do sawdust,run a trapline,hunt big game,live life to it's most.Got 4 mills a circle mill,(2 band sawmills) Norwood's 2000, Trim Saw,Beam Machine (chainsaw mill).


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