small commercial mill

[quilbilly]

I've been thinking about putting together a small commercial mill to cut cedar fencing. Still a year or two away. Looking at cutting 8k bf per day at a minimum. I can get the logs no problem, I'm just having a bit of a time finding a used operation within my budget. So i would like to know if anyone has done this already or can give some advice on the best used mills. I have been looking at a select 4221, wm 4000, or a Sanborn or heartwood double cut. Then add in an edger and resaw. 

[beenthere]

What mix of target sizes (thickness, widths, and lengths) would you be considering for your cedar fencing??

What variation and range in log diameters would you expect to come to your mill?

[ellmoe]

  If you are only cutting fencing and have the right size of logs,  it is hard to beat a skragg followed by a gang or resaw.
mark

[quilbilly]

18-25ft. Diameter varies. On the west coast here 3ft plus is not unusual for a butt cut. Most guys split em if they're too big and then run em through. I would also like the ability to cut dimensional lumber. Sometimes we get an order for beams or old growth flooring etc. So I was looking at a mill that can cut 40 inches or so before needing to rip the log.

[quilbilly]

Thanks mark, I was looking at that but thought a scragg might not take a large enough log. I could be wrong on that though.

[beenthere]

I've been thinking about putting together a small commercial mill to cut cedar fencing.

Then you want more than just a mill to cut cedar fencing...  ;)

[Ianab]

Thought about a Swing Blade mill to handle the bigger stuff and custom beams etc? Hard to beat them for taking dimension lumber from large logs.  That AND a smaller automated band or scrag saw for the smaller stuff.

Just thinking that the price of a basic swing blade AND a high production mill with smaller log size capacity might be less than a mill that will do everything you want?

The swing blade has the ability to cut pretty much anything, and handle any (sensible) size log. But it would be tough to get the production you want from smaller size logs.

Would the ability to handle 4-5ft logs (easily) open up a supply of "oversize" but good quality logs?

Ditto Beenthere's comments, the mill is only part of the equation. You need the whole processing pipeline, and enough guys to keep it running.

[Ron Wenrich]

I don't think a band mill will be all that good unless you have a debarker.  I believe cedar bark on the west coast is heavy to being dirty.  Just the windblown dirt likes to get lodged in it.  That will increase maintenance costs.  Scragg mills are designed for smaller diameter logs.

Swing blade mills work pretty good in that situation, but you're going to need some automation to get that type of production.  A dimension mill like a Mobile Dimension, Brand X or one of the other double cut mills is also an option.  Many of these mills will handle big logs and you can get length the length you need.  The dimension mill may save you the expense of edgers, depending on the size of lumber you want to put out.  For sawing beams, I would think you would want the ability to turn logs, for example. 

Do you have a business that you are operating right now?  You say you are getting orders for beams, etc which leads me to believe you have a business.  Care to describe what you have?

[ellmoe]

Thanks mark, I was looking at that but thought a scragg might not take a large enough log. I could be wrong on that though.

I've been thinking about putting together a small commercial mill to cut cedar fencing.

Then you want more than just a mill to cut cedar fencing...  ;)

  What Been There said. For fencing you should be using small logs, easier to process ( cheaper) and  competition for logs (price)should be less (cheaper). When I was cutting fence we bought tree length cypress and pine with 4'' to 6'' tops, butts 10-12", relatively straight, just above ( and within ) pulpwood class. In the south this pine for "stud mills" is referred to as "chip and saw". It was/ is not possible to take the larger quality logs, pay the price they command, and make a profit. Fencing is what we made out of logs than would not make lumber. Look hard at your markets and logs. I question if fencing (as in privacy fence, correct? ) is the best use for the logs you describe.  At this time, we resaw fencing out of barky 1x4 and 1x6 lumber that has no market as lumber. we can no longer get small cypress and competition from Central and South America makes pine fencing unprofitable.
Mark

[DMcCoy]

The things I see are cedars heavy taper and on the butt end cedars growth habit -buttressing- you can end up with bark folded back and sealed into the log. Nothing here you probably are not aware of.  Maybe it just becomes a financial and scaling issue.
How you maximize efficiency with highly tapered long logs or lots of short logs is worth a lot of research.  The buttressing issue in my experience creates a large amount of unusable wood volume, something to consider in your material handling plans.
It is obviously done by someone.  I don't know if they give tours but Mary's River, Corvallis, OR, is the only big cedar mill I'm aware of they might have some insights.  There was a smaller commercial cedar mill in Vernonia, OR 30 yrs ago, can't remember the name, don't know if they are still around. 
Mary's River - I think they cut mainly 2x6 decking. 
Large cedar chips (@1 1/2"x 1/4") are available at local landscape supply yards.  One solution to mill waste.   

[quilbilly]

I understand I need more than just a mill. However it is the breakdown part that I am concerned with right now. I will pick up a debarker if I get a bandmill. I have thought of a mobile or Lucas for breakdown of oversize logs. However thinking of space and time the more I can do from one spot and the more recovery the better.
  i have toured a smallish commercial mill in SW WA. They have a cleereman carriage followed by an edger and then a run-around system. They split the big logs and have a debarker. Every cedar mill i know takes 5"+ with no max. So trying to grab just the small wood wouldn't work. There is a solid market for fencing and i am sure i could get rid of the wood at a profit. Just looking for info on best used equip that might do the job.
. I used to mill for a guy who had an lt70. I went to logging for the past few years. So we get orders every now and again for logging and then milling what we log.

[Gearbox]

My rules still apply 5 gal of fuel and 1 man per thousand feet . So you will burn 40 gal of fuel and have 8 men on the mill . If you plan for that and can get by for less GOODY IN THE POCKETBOOK .
Gearbox

[Ron Wenrich]

The Cleerman type mill would work very well, but the length of logs being 18-25' is a little tough to handle.  Most circle mills are designed to go to 16'.  Anything longer means a longer carriage and more track.  Also, those small logs are production killers on any type of operation except scragg. 

[loggah]

My brothers Sanborn 6-36 mill will handle  logs up to 3' in diameter ,it also has a debarker wheel that travels in front of the saw. Im not sure how well it would work on real heavy barked logs,it works fine on everything that grows in the northeast. Don

[Alligator]

Look at these. Everyone will popo on them. I ran a sash gang mill for 15 years. They look slow, but when you calc the bdft put thru in this video they are the most efficient way to break down large cants into boards. They are great at kerf reduction and therefor overcut realization from large logs. The overcut will pay for it in 5 years. My research and contact with this company is that this machine would coast about $60k to get setup and running, with support equipment in the US. That fluctuates with the exchange rate usually to your advantage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92_3G7v8CqE&list=FLk7KXE2mdWZP5769I6ur2og

My calculations are roughly 44 bdft per minute

[quilbilly]

Thanks don, I've looked at the Sanborn and they look pretty good and it seems you can find them for a decent price used. How foes your brother like his?
   also as for the video 40+ ft per minute is more than enough. I'll have to look at that closer. Bark isn't a big deal, ill probably get a debarker unless I absolutely can't find one. We export logs already right now and a debarker would help us immensely if we had 2 separate markets for the logs

[loggah]

He likes it pretty well,no problems and they use it almost every day.