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Author Topic: Sharpening a ripping chain  (Read 6475 times)

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Offline jopoff1981

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Sharpening a ripping chain
« on: January 29, 2016, 09:05:14 PM »
Thanks in advance I am new to chainsaw milling in fact just ordered a 42 inch bar for my 044 and a full skip chain to go with it. I have heard to sharpen to a 10 degree angle. I would like to know why and could I go closer to 20 or even leave it at 30 I want to use it for crosscut too. I am not going to be using it very much but I sold my bandmill but still want to cut slabs. I have bell-saw for lumber.

Offline sawguy21

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2016, 10:28:59 PM »
The standard will rip but not leave a smooth finish like the dedicated chain. If you like the look or have a planer it won't matter.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2016, 04:49:29 AM »
42" is a lot of bar for 70 cc's.

Offline jopoff1981

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2016, 08:35:39 AM »
I know it will be fairly slow but can't afford a new saw right now. If I use it much I will move up. Gotta use what you got

Offline DonnerParty

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2016, 05:46:21 PM »
A lower top-plate angle will give a smoother finish, as the cutters don't pull sideways quite as hard, leaving a smoother and narrower kerf. I like Stihl chains, and they don't make factory ripping chains anymore. I always start with stock 30 degree factory angles, then slowly adjust the top plate angle down each time I sharpen, to maximize cutter life. Works fine, and i end up ripping with 30 degree top plates all the time. Most people like 10-15, some even go down to 0 (square), but I've found that it's better to have some amount of positive angle, and 10 or 15 or so works pretty good.

The Husqvarna roller-guide sharpener works really well for ripping chain. I find it easier to file to 15 degrees or so with it than to 30, even though that's what it's designed for. It also offers a progressive depth-gauge depth filing plate, which will keep your chain cutting much better as the cutter wears (compared to fixed-depth depth gauge filing plates).

I have milled up to 24" softwoods with my MS440, but wouldn't want to go much wider than that with that saw. Tune it rich and take it slow!

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2016, 08:48:39 PM »
Here's how I look at chainsaw milling .Not everybody agrees with me .As a rule the sawyer is salvaging logs that otherwise would be firewood which is okay .

Even with a standard chisel chain which will cut or rip circles around a rip chain and  the cut is smoother  than say a circular saw .If the lumber is for wood work, furniture projects etc. it's going to be planed any way so why bother with a slow cutting ripping chain ?Chainsaw milling is slow to begin with why add additional misery ?

Offline jopoff1981

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2016, 10:28:26 PM »
Yeah I'm not to worried about being smooth as long as it's flat and even. I got planners and sanders.

Offline jopoff1981

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2016, 10:36:10 PM »
Is it doable to cut 36" hardwoods with the 044 ? I bought a skip chain. I know it's not ideal but it should cut. I will probably do it very little anyway. I will do most of my sawing on my circle mill. I sold my bandmill a month ago and already miss it.

Offline cre73

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2016, 08:33:06 PM »
Is it doable to cut 36" hardwoods with the 044 ? I bought a skip chain. I know it's not ideal but it should cut. I will probably do it very little anyway. I will do most of my sawing on my circle mill. I sold my bandmill a month ago and already miss it.

 I do not believe an 044 would do 36in hardwood or last very long if it does. But good luck.

Offline sharkey

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2016, 11:08:27 AM »
If you attempt this - running a 36 inch bar on an 044/440 - run your mix at 20:1 so you dont fry the cylinder.   

Offline mad murdock

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2016, 01:13:17 PM »
Like others have said, a 36" cut for any saw is a heavy pull, best done with the biggest available.  70cc is a little on the weak side.  You may be able to pull it off, but it will be slow going, and as sharkey said, mix your gas a little heavy on the oil, I would use 32:1, let the saw idle plenty after a cut, and never let it run out of gas, if it does the lean out thing in a heavy cut while it is hot, it might not start again, as you may well damage the piston/cyl.
JD AMT 626, Turbosawmill M6 Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Offline goose63

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2016, 02:13:10 PM »
Not trying to steal this but would a Jred 2188 be big enough to do this?
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

Offline DonnerParty

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2016, 04:43:49 PM »
Is it doable to cut 36" hardwoods with the 044 ? I bought a skip chain. I know it's not ideal but it should cut. I will probably do it very little anyway. I will do most of my sawing on my circle mill. I sold my bandmill a month ago and already miss it.

I wouldn't mill 36" hardwood with my 440. I like the saw too much.

If you decide to go for it, tune it rich (at least 1000 rpm under max with a tach), and take it really slow, allowing the saw to rest and cool down often.

Offline DonnerParty

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2016, 04:47:29 PM »
Not trying to steal this but would a Jred 2188 be big enough to do this?

It has the power. Also, those saws have an awful lot of platic on them. Melting the plastics would be a concern. Saws get hot during long cuts on the mill. It's a concern with many of the newer production saws, IMO.

Offline beenthere

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2016, 06:07:21 PM »
If saw plastic was melting, I'd think we'd be hearing about it.

But I hear nothing...   anyone?
south central Wisconsin
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Offline goose63

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2016, 07:32:59 PM »
Thanks guys I have a ash log bout 38 inch and 15 ft long that's to big for my little woodland 126
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

Offline jopoff1981

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2016, 07:14:10 PM »
I will not be cutting that big often at all i will be looking for a 660 in the meantime.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2016, 09:19:20 PM »
You can rip cut, mill with a smaller displacement saw but it's slow as a snail .I tried it with an 048 Stihl cutting 18" red oak .Wow was that a chore .

Now that said if it were I it would be at least 100 cc if not larger .066 Stihl  would do it but it won't beat any speed records .

Like I've said many times chainsaw milling in my opinion is an option  to salvage lumber from what other wise would become fire wood so use what you can get your hands on .I wouldn't recommend a 42 cc saw though for a task like that as if anyone would .

Offline beauj5

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2016, 10:59:10 PM »
So I've been milling with a chainsaw mill for a few years and have done around 20 or so logs, plus a few for buddies. I only mill logs 32" wide and up and are 10'-14' long. Anything smaller isn't worth the work and gets turned into firewood. Not bragging, I'm still learning every time I do it. I have gone through a fair amount of chain trying to find the "perfect" ripping chain and what I've learned among a ton of other things is this: It works the hell out of my 880 and 660. You are asking your saw to work at max capacity for long periods of time. I would never put a 42" bar on my 440s. I'd bet dollars to donuts that you will burn it up and spend a lot of time doing it without much gain. Sharp chain filed evenly and correctly with the rakers filed correctly is essential. Skip chain is essential. Round gound filed at 10 degrees vs square ground at stock is noticeable only in smoothness. "Store bought" ripping chain is no better in performance than stock chain filed to 10 degrees. Chisel chain is rougher than semi-chisel chain. Old nails in trees are not good on chain. So, in summation and trying to stay on the topic of your post, my advice is this:  Get a 660, put a max air flow air filter on it and a dual port muffler and put that 42" bar on that and save your 440. You WILL kill that wonderful little saw trying to mill anything bigger than 24" with it, and even then, I'd be nervous.  Also, try having the dealer make a chain at 10 degrees and get another leaving it stock and see for yourself.  It may cost a little extra, but it's nice having an extra chain and you'll know first hand how it differs. let us know what you end up doing and what worked and what didn't. Maybe I'll learn something new.
When the road forked, I went straight.

T540xp, 562xp, 034 super mag, 044, 460, 576, 056 super mag, ms460, 066, ms880, 090.

Offline footer

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2016, 09:56:52 PM »
Beauj5, have you tried 0 degree ripping chain compared to 10 degree?

Offline beauj5

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2016, 07:06:13 PM »
No, I haven't yet. I went 10 because that's what the Oregon products chart suggested. I'll try 0 degrees on an older chain that I have that needs touched up and when I try it out, I'll post it here.
When the road forked, I went straight.

T540xp, 562xp, 034 super mag, 044, 460, 576, 056 super mag, ms460, 066, ms880, 090.

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2016, 11:11:55 AM »
I have some 0 degree (from Balies), and used it for a few big logs. 48 inch + red oak, running a 60 inch bar and 084. With the bar so much longer than the log diameter, I didn't cut 90 degrees to the log because I was standing on top cutting down. I only had the log blocked up about 6 inches off the ground. The chain is full comp, not skip. The saw seems to handle it OK, but Im not sure if I tried cutting full width at 90 degrees to the log, how it would work.

Offline DonnerParty

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2016, 11:11:16 AM »
0 degree top plate angle works fine, but less than 0 will pull the cutter sideways the wrong way and won't cut well or leave a good finish. 10 or 15 cuts just as well, and is much easier to see and maintain a constant top plate cutter angle.

Offline DonnerParty

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2016, 11:13:08 AM »
I have some 0 degree (from Balies), and used it for a few big logs. 48 inch + red oak, running a 60 inch bar and 084. With the bar so much longer than the log diameter, I didn't cut 90 degrees to the log because I was standing on top cutting down. I only had the log blocked up about 6 inches off the ground. The chain is full comp, not skip. The saw seems to handle it OK, but Im not sure if I tried cutting full width at 90 degrees to the log, how it would work.

As you bring the saw off of 90 degrees, you start pulling longer strands of grain rather than short cuts directly across the grain. Lots of people call this "noodling". This puts less strain on the saw, and also works better with a slightly higher top plate angle.

Offline beauj5

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2018, 02:06:35 AM »
So the 0 degree grind was a pain to get to from the original 30 degree, mainly because I had to file back a ways to get past the damage caused by the railroad spike I hit, and then it took awhile to get the rakers back down.  Once I got it to 0 degrees, it really didn’t “feed” well into the wood and almost didn’t want to go at all.  So, after some looking, I believe that one side was “past” 0 degrees, and so the cutters were maybe trying to cut on the inside first versus the outside.  So, I went back and reground the whole dang thing again to just shy of 5 degrees (maybe (2.5) and what I ended up with wasn’t much different than the 10 degree angle.  The cut was smoother than 30 degrees, but not any different really compared to the 10 degree.  In summation, for what I’m doing, the 30 stock angle on the round ground cut fast and efficient, is easy to maintain, and leaves a nice finish that cleans up easy with a planer if needed.  One thing to note, though, is if you are looking for a smooth easy finish, even pressure with the saw across the entire log will get good results. When you start “see sawing” the saw, that’s when the uneven chain and bar marks really show up, which, for some applications is really cool.
When the road forked, I went straight.

T540xp, 562xp, 034 super mag, 044, 460, 576, 056 super mag, ms460, 066, ms880, 090.

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2018, 04:50:51 PM »
Just curious how many of you have tried square chisel chains for ripping?

Offline dogone

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2018, 12:10:41 AM »
Just finished four six foot cuts in a 28 in poplar using a 20 inch bar. My old husky 154 powered through but it was work. It is a pro saw but 55 cc was not really enough. I polished the ports and opened the muffler so it burns gas like a hog. First time using a beam machine and I really like it. I can see a bigger saw and a chainsaw mill in the future.
  I stopped to fuel up often and used compressed air to cool the saw. I used both a new rip chain and regular chain ; didn't notice any difference.

Offline Don P

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2018, 07:55:24 AM »
One thing that has come to mind as we've wandered down the log with plenty of time to think. If you think about the log as a bundle of long straws, when you are cutting straight across the log you are cutting off the ends of the straws. If the engine is leading you are chipping your way down the straws, if the nose is leading you are brushing the straws back down as you cut. Those last 2 are sort of like brushing against the way the fur grows and then with the way it grows. Just stuff that passes through ones head. I'm curious if anyone has noticed much difference in that angle of attack. I'm not to noodling just square, leading or trailing.

Offline thelogsmith

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2018, 11:37:48 AM »
Don if what your asking is one way faster than the other, in my experience no. And that's using a double ended bar w/ a 2100 on each end. Also comparing ripping chain to standard we've had better luck with ripping chain as far as speed goes(It wasn't huge, but every little bit helps). You'll learn to become one with your sharpener after you hit a nail and have 221 dl of .404 needing attention
tk1400, husky 2100's, a 298, 372's a 357 and a token stihl. john deere 317 skid steer. cut it twice and its still to short!

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2018, 06:16:53 AM »
With chisel chain you'll get better results if you can hold about 30 to 45 degree angle of attack .It won't be cutting noodles to clog you up and it won't be pulling saw dust to dull the chain and be slow as molasses in January .You've got to play with it a little bit to finger it out .

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2018, 07:21:04 AM »
I don’t do any milling like you guys are but have squared off alder or Doug fir in the brush for spring boards or as part of a job and I don’t remember feeding issues with square chisel like round chains. How far are you guys dropping your rakers? The few times I had to slab a side off I dropped the rakers pretty good on an old falling chain then she would self feed enough I’d have to hold her back some.

Offline Don P

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2018, 07:41:35 AM »
We've been playing with it, .040 is pretty good, we dropped to around .050 last time and it worked well on the Lucas slabber, that is probably too much for the Alaskan. It depends on width, hardness and hp. When it gets too much it snags and hangs up too much, too little and it takes too much pressure to make dust. Rounding the leading edge of the rakers helps as well. None of this is gospel just where we're at now.

Offline homestead090

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Re: Sharpening a ripping chain
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2018, 10:54:36 PM »
I'm using 404 chains at 10 degrees and getting very smooth cuts as long as you don't rock the mill back and forth. I'm using Granberg chain (made by Carlton) and some NOS Stihl Ripping chain I got off ebay. As far as a saw, the more power the better. It will also let you cut without moving the mill around a lot, or at least be tempted too. I'm using a Stihl 090 and just bought a second one off ebay. I saw you said it wasn't a good time to buy a big saw now, just for reference. I just got the second 090 for $650 including shipping. It is missing a few parts but you can get Chinese parts for this saw very cheap and many of them don't matter as far as performance goes (clutch covers, caps, handles, etc). An 090 goes for $1,200-$1,500 on average for just a running decent saw and way more when they are pretty. What I got it for is the low end of what I see them going for. It was one that was relisted after not meeting it's reserve price. I messaged the seller and they excepted the offer. If you keep your eyes open for the saw you want, and are patient, you can get a good deal. I've got some videos of the 090 milling if you are interested or considering what saw to buy. It's old but powerful, 137cc, lots of torque. Mine has the governor removed so it keeps its speed up, carb tuned accordingly, but not too high rpm. It's a heavy saw, and you feel it moving around but I once you're in the cut it doesn't matter. I like that it's all metal. I'm sure an 880 or the 3120 is nice, but running the old saw is fun and from videos I've seen, I'm milling faster, especially in the big stuff. Back to your topic, I think anything much more than 10 degrees is going to dull way to fast, I think 30 degree or any normal cross cutting angle would not last long at all, maybe not even on cut in big wood without dulling, especially if it is at all dirty. I can take several wide cuts before I can notice any difference. Each chain will last me about 1 big log (3-4 foot diameter hardwood, white oak for example). I got two logs with walnut but was moving slow toward the end, better to sharpen, better for the bar as well so your not pushing really hard and wearing things out. Sorry for all the rambling, but I know when I was making decisions, I wanted a lot of info! Good luck.
Furniture maker and wood collector.


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