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Stihl M-Tronic

Started by jargo432, February 28, 2016, 10:40:35 PM

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joe_indi

I recall that in the 50s when the first transistors started appearing here the experts claimed they would never replace the sturdiness of the valves. A decade or more later I saw the first integrated chip (Sinclair) and again the experts claimed they could never do the work of transistors. More recently I heard this about micro chips. In engines I heard this as fuel delivery moved from a basic carburetor, to single point fuel injection, mult-point, cb points to electronic , mechanical injectors to solenoid, to piezoelectric...
Heard it more recently when the exhaust stratified 461 (who uses waste gases) was compared to the clean air stratified 575,..........and, it will continue, until we come to grips with technology.
So, I think the M-tronic just like everything else needs some time for getting accepted.  Just the fact that a screw driver no longer works but you need a laptop or PC to fine tune should not be a retarding factor.
The 'expert's will find will find their way around it soon enough.
A very good example is my Fiat with a multijet turbo diesel. A tuner has developed a multi-mode map for the ECU, regular (stock), sports for fun at the signal light, economy for highway cruises and a high torque mode for bumper to bumper traffic. Switchable from mode to mode by switching off the engine, turning on the ignition and pressing the accelerator to select mode 1, 2, 3 or 4 which is indicated by the fuel gauge moving from Empty , Quarter, Half, Three Quarter and Full being the selected mode.
If an independent tuner in a country like mine can do this for Mercs, Bee Ms, Toyota and such, I am confident that soon members on this forum and elsewhere will find the ways and means to custom tune M-tronic very very soon. :)

Inaotherlife

I don't make money using saws. But I save money doing my own maintenance and using what I can for firewood and hobbies. Still, I wanted three new saws that would last me a long time, be easy to start, and wouldn't require much maintenance over cleaning and sharpening.

While I really, really would have loved to have a brand new MS201CEM and a MS261CM, I ended up buying 3 Echos, CS-361P, CS-490, as well as a CS-2511T for over $400 less than what the 2 M-Tronic Stihls would have cost me, and over $900 less than if I added in the MS150TCE.

I do think the 2 M-Tronics 35 and 50cc saws are a cut above the two similar Echo's I got though. And I really do like most Stihl equipment. But all three of my new saws have been super easy to start and trouble free, and have required a minimum of tuning.

barbender

I bought an M-tronic Ms261cm last year. I'm very impressed with this little saw. It has a surprisingly good amount of torque and has ran flawlessly from 90°F to -20°F, and I've never reset it or anything. Turn it on, pull the cord, and go👍
Too many irons in the fire

Cruiser_79

I have a 341 (bought new)  and a secondhand 660. Pretty old fashioned and especially the 660 is a beast 8). They work well and only had some issues with broken oilpumps. When I want to buy a new one I will go for a 461 or 661, but will they work fine with high temperatures as well with the M-tronic? I mean >30 degrees celcius ( 85-95 fahrenheit)
And nobody ever had problems with the processor etc? And if so, is it possible to replace the processor by yourself? 

lxskllr

Quote from: joe_indi on February 17, 2019, 11:43:30 PM
I recall that in the 50s when the first transistors started appearing here the experts claimed they would never replace the sturdiness of the valves. A decade or more later I saw the first integrated chip (Sinclair) and again the experts claimed they could never do the work of transistors. More recently I heard this about micro chips. In engines I heard this as fuel delivery moved from a basic carburetor, to single point fuel injection, mult-point, cb points to electronic , mechanical injectors to solenoid, to piezoelectric...
Heard it more recently when the exhaust stratified 461 (who uses waste gases) was compared to the clean air stratified 575,..........and, it will continue, until we come to grips with technology.
So, I think the M-tronic just like everything else needs some time for getting accepted.  Just the fact that a screw driver no longer works but you need a laptop or PC to fine tune should not be a retarding factor.
The 'expert's will find will find their way around it soon enough.
A very good example is my Fiat with a multijet turbo diesel. A tuner has developed a multi-mode map for the ECU, regular (stock), sports for fun at the signal light, economy for highway cruises and a high torque mode for bumper to bumper traffic. Switchable from mode to mode by switching off the engine, turning on the ignition and pressing the accelerator to select mode 1, 2, 3 or 4 which is indicated by the fuel gauge moving from Empty , Quarter, Half, Three Quarter and Full being the selected mode.
If an independent tuner in a country like mine can do this for Mercs, Bee Ms, Toyota and such, I am confident that soon members on this forum and elsewhere will find the ways and means to custom tune M-tronic very very soon. :)
I hope you're right Joe. I agree with your general points, and I love my 362cm, but I wonder how many people will have the know-how to hack on saw computers. Cars have a wide audience, but sawyer/hacker/gearhead is a rare combination I imagine.

Weekend_Sawyer

 I have had my 261-CM for over a year now and have no complaints.
I do have a warning. Don't let it run out of gas. I have done this twice now and it took about 30 pulls to get it going again.

 This saw rides in the truck with me when I am up on the tree farms in WV so it gets used about every other weekend.

 I have had my 661-CM for almost as long and it mainly gets used on the chainsawmill.  It is a real bruiser and I'm glad to have it.

Jon
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

ehp

Im not a fan of the autotune but once I mod the second linkage they work fine, the Mtronic seems to work pretty good and the latest 462 seems to work the best

Weekend_Sawyer

I'm curious, what does the 2nd linkage do and how did you mod it?
Jon
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

realzed

Quote from: Weekend_Sawyer on February 21, 2019, 07:48:35 AM
I have had my 261-CM for over a year now and have no complaints.
I do have a warning. Don't let it run out of gas. I have done this twice now and it took about 30 pulls to get it going again.
Jon
HA - funny you should mention that Jon - I did run out a couple of times with the new 261 I have as well..  
I found it goes quite a way on a tank full over my older 026 and previous 290 to the point where it allows me to get caught up on my cutting and forget about fuel related things.. so inevitably the end result is it just dies without so much as a single cough or fart as a carb'd version might give, well before you can shut it down.. 
My guess is the M-Tronic adjusts so well that it runs perfectly right until the last drop unlike older versions which usually give some lean-warning or surging as notice of impending doom..   
AND as you mentioned it does take quite a bit of effort to resurrect it again.  
I found the weight of it, lack of vibration, and good balance, all contribute to making the time fly by and instead of getting tired enough to stop and refuel as an excuse to take a break the C-M version lets me just power on through - sufficiently to forget to look at the tank level and paying for it with the dreaded 'empty' hard restart penalty.
I'm really pleased with the saw and especially the performance of it though, all things considered!
 

lxskllr

My 362 will get subtly irregular when it gets low on fuel, and I stop to fill it. Haven't run it out of gas yet due to the warnings here  :^D

HolmenTree

Yeah you wouldn't want to be in the predicament of a barber chair on a tree splitting up 30 feet above you when your saw stops the instant you're half ways through the back cut.
That Mtronic should have a built in warning signal when it's starting to run out of gas.
My 261 I noticed it had a slight ignition miss right before it almost died and I was able to turn it off in time.
 But I was just lucky I was paying attention.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

samm

I just bought my 4th M-Tronic saw, a 241c. I don't think it will take over the 362c for riding shotgun with me, I love that saw, all-around. I'm stingy, so all the M-Tronics I have are second-hand to me. But I'm happy to say, I haven't had major issues yet.
I like that one can perform a simple reset for various situations, especially when entering a new season.  Then they seem to run like a champ.

I would like to ask: does one benefit from modding (intake/exhaust port timing grinding or muffler mods) the M-Tronic saws in the same way as a normal carb? I wonder how hot I can make my 241c before I run into issues -- but I'm also OK if the suggestion is to leave it alone.

Cheers
Keep your stick on the Ice!

Weekend_Sawyer

Check out this thread starting at reply #507.
Actually the whole thread is worth the read!

Official MS261CM vs 550XP test in Chainsaws
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

Crusarius

I definitely agree with the "do not run out of fuel" statement!!!!!!!

Is that enough !!!!?? :)

Cruiser_79

Last week I was at the stihl dealer. I know the guy pretty good, and asked about the M-tronics. He told me that the first models had some problems, he thought it was the 201 tophandle who were the first with m-tronic. After the first models they never had serious problems. Most important thing is to keep everything clean when refilling and servicing. When there are problems with the M-tronics, people will say it's a software problem but in fact the problem is caused by bad maintenance and contamination. It's not my experience, just tell what he told me last week  ;)

He didn't recognize the problems with running out of fuel either, is everyone here having problems with it? 
He also told me that you can reset the m-tronic by running it on choke for 60 or 90 seconds. It's a kind of calibration, and mostly the problems will be solved. When carburettor and everything is clean offcourse... And the microprocessor/unit is easy to replace. 

I think my next saw will be a m-tronic, than I can figure it out my self  ;D

MacDiarmada7

Regarding M tronics VS older conventional models there has been a raging debate out here . Both Stihl and Husqvarna sell and service many saws in this neck of the woods . Most folk up here live at 7-10,000 ft 
most fuel wood cutting is done between 9-11,000 . Talking to dealers and many folk using the newer M tronic models , most folk seem very unhappy with their performance.
 I'm not referring to a home owner occasionally cutting but people who make a living selling firewood or cut their own for winter.
BUT Ive never owned one so my impression is based on other peoples feedback.
Is maith an t-anlann an t-ocras {hunger is good sauce}

My arsenal :High Mountain Husky Dynasty
262xp, 371/372XP, 562XP, 550xp II , 357XP, 346XP, 350/346xp top end, 55Rancher , 445 xtorq, 435 xtorq

ZeroJunk

I bought a MS661 and have only made a couple of cuts with it. Bad weather.  I can tell you that it is very quick. But, I'll never put over a few hours on it.

A tree service guy brought me a MS261 with an earlier solenoid. The piston was toast.  I cleaned the cylinder, put a Meteor piston and a new solenoid. Just finished a few minutes ago. Seems to run fine.

How does a man who runs a saw for a living let a saw cook and not hear it or be able to tell it is off.   Never have understood that.

sablatnic

Quote from: ZeroJunk on March 22, 2019, 12:46:33 PM

How does a man who runs a saw for a living let a saw cook and not hear it or be able to tell it is off.   Never have understood that.
Most of them don't, and I don't understand either, but they just are not "engine men".


Cruiser_79

I purchased a brand new 661 M-tronic  few weeks ago and tested it in some poplar logs before it's on his way to a project.
Can't say it has much more power than my old 660. I expected it to be much more agressive to be honest. But with my 660 I often need 5 pulls or more before it starts, the 661 goes straight away! That's a big difference. The air filter is easier to clean as well, but it looks like it collects way more sawdust than my 660. After an hour it looks like its almost full of dust, my 660 only needs cleaning after an entire day. 

I ran out of fuel once, and the 661 didn't start after refill. It looked like it flooded, while my stihl dealer told me that it is impossible to flood the M-tronic. I took out the spark plug, filed my chain and waited a few minutes and then it started again. But it's quite annoying that it won't start after running out of fuel... 

nativewolf

we have a 362cm and a 462 and have to say that over time with multiple users the mtronic easy to start feature...fails. 

Our 462 must be choked to start after running out of fuel and frankly it is not easy to start but the choking after running empty has been an issue from get go.  Going to change fuel filters and air filters on it next week and reset to see if gets easier to start.
Our 362 had a fuel filter get plugged and since then has been tough to keep running sometimes...sometimes...and that gets me.  

Oh and parts are hard to get, when bucking a massive oak this week the blade pinched just as the log decided it could roll a bit, log got the handle (we don't have a full wrap...) and bent it and broke a suspension rode inside spring.  Ordered another handle ( full wrap :)  )but a stihl dealer took 2 days to figure out how to order it.  They have still never seen a 462 so you may experience pain in parts.  

On the positive side they both seem ok power wise, I'm the size of a half starved chicken so a 660 type saw is just too big for me.  462 is fine, I dropped some oaks with massive buttress's yesterday with the 462 (even with a half broken handle) that were 60" at widest, just cut off buttress and make a big notch and bored it out.  I actually dropped it with the 362.  If I were big enough to use a 660 safely I sure would or the husky equivalents.
Liking Walnut

Simple Jack

Quote from: nativewolf on May 16, 2019, 05:52:51 AMor the husky equivalents

I see a lot of post about how happy people are happy with there M-tronic, but it seems that there are a lot of post about how they are not. I was thinking about getting the MS661 because I have a older MS290 that I got in 2011, I converted it to a MS390. I've  never had any problems with the saw what so ever. I like the saw! If you look at all the chainsaw problems, there are very little post about anyone having problems with the old style husky 395XP that is still in production with the plane old carburetor. I plan on getting a husky in the next month or so. You could in time see me post about a problem I have with it, but one thing is for sure it won't have any m-tronic problems.

luap

I purchased the huskvarna 550 xp 3 years ago and have cut 20plus cords of wood each year and it does not give any warning when running out of fuel. I have learned to keep an eye on the fuel window on the fuel tank. It has been a while since I ran it out of fuel so I don't remember if it was harder to start- maybe a few extra pulls. My trees are not big so I put a 16" bar on, much better balanced and wanted to save some weight. Has run and performed well.

knuckledragger

The best things that have happened in the automotive industry in the last three decades are electronic ignition and fuel injection. Why then should chain saws be any different? I've sold a couple of ms250c and three of stihl's ms180c. All five of these saw were equipped with tooless chain adjusters and e-z pull starter. All five purchasers have voiced praise for their saw. I don't own one myself simply because I have more saws than I need as it is. One I forgot Husqvarna's 460 auto-tune. I hav'nt heard from this individual... no news is good news. The point is autos run better and last longer than the carburated, points and condenser version, fact. Chainsaws will have the same type of results.

doc henderson

I agree knuckle but when they do not work, what do you fix.  even the dealers, at least early on, were just changing out parts.  I am anxious to try the ms 500 i when it gets to Ks., but I had bought the ms 661 and had nothing but trouble.  would not start warm and that is a big saw to pull on 20 - 30 times.  My dealer took it back finally and I got an 880.  I have the ms 261 and like it fine.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

knuckledragger

At my age Al it would take a week to give 30 pulls on a 661, compression release or not. I really disliked those 'ol throttle bodies. Auto's tweener era. The auto makers got over that hump. M-tronic, auto-tune I believe is the saw ind. tweener era. Stihl and Husqy will get over the hump as well.  I'm not sure what to fix on the smart saws... they are smarter than am. lol

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