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Author Topic: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions  (Read 2907 times)

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Offline ljohnsaw

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New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« on: March 29, 2016, 08:34:52 PM »
So I pulled the trigger and bought this new toy:

 

 

It is called a Case Davis 16+4 Trencher.  The 16 is the engine size and the +4 is four wheel drive.  I think it is from the mid 80's.  The engine turns over but the wiring is rotted, the carb is froze up and is missing a coil of some sort.  Some of you have Kohler engines on your mills, right?  Wondering if you could give me a hand.

Here is what I found/see.  The badge on the engine says it is a Kohler K341S (something illegible) No. 71265 Serial Number 9603378

 

There is this unit that has three connections.  Two of which come from under or near the flywheel.  A loose wire is just the right length and goes to the amp meter.   So I'm assuming this is the rectifier to charge the battery, correct?

 

Next is this funny black box with a single black lead that is not connected.  Anyone?  Is that related to the coil?  Can anyone give me a clue as to what kind of coil I'm looking for?

 

Since it does not run, I disconnected the main drive motor so we could push it from his trailer to mine.  Since this thing has a top speed of 2.1 MPH, I'm planning on replacing this small sprocket with one 2 or maybe 3 times the size.

 

My plan is to remove the digging chain/bar and hang my snowblower on the "front", powering it from the digging chain sprockets.  I will re-install the plow blade on the "back".  Then I can plow or blow snow, depending on the conditions.  I suppose I could also use it as a micro-skidder :D

And finally, the hydraulics are a combination of direct control of valves and cable control of valves.  After messing around a few hours, I found two cables that are rusted up.  One for the parking brake, the other for the turn cylinder.  Have any of you seen something like this?  The large mounting nuts are 15/16" for scale.

 

 

Thanks!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2016, 09:30:40 PM »
That cable thing in the last picture looks like a standard snow plow cable we use to move the levers to make the plow angle right and left. Except for the second end. But other than that it's pretty much the same.

Good luck on getting it running.

Jim Rogers
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Offline Brian_Rhoad

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2016, 09:39:17 PM »
Here is a link to the owners manual for that engine.

http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/tp_1346_c_all.pdf

Offline Gearbox

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2016, 09:46:00 PM »
that small box in pic 4 is the points . the k series are starting to get hard to get parts for . you may find parts from john deere as they used k series in 212 and mabey 316
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Offline Kbeitz

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2016, 02:47:24 AM »
Yep thats the point box. Make sure you take out the little points plunger rod and oil it up.
E-bay has lots of parts for that engine.

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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2016, 10:56:51 AM »
Well, at least the points are easily serviceable.  I'm used to the old B&S having the points buried under the flywheel. :-\
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline sawguy21

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2016, 12:44:01 PM »
Check for spark, the engine may have been converted to breakerless which would explain the disconnected wire.
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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2016, 01:32:32 PM »
Check for spark, the engine may have been converted to breakerless which would explain the disconnected wire.

No, don't think so.  There is a spark plug wire attached to the spark plug and other end hanging on the side of the engine.  There is no electronic module.  Plain and simple - missing the coil.  Just finished stripping it down.  Points are corroded and need replacement, carb is froze up hard.  Even sitting overnight with Blue Creeper didn't free up the choke or throttle plate.  Can't even get the float bowl nut off.  Nice simple carb - hate to have to buy a new one.  Might try soaking in carb cleaner now.

Pulled the parking brake cable off and took some measurements.  Found a place that stocks and makes "Ag" cables.  They have the one the steering valve with my part number listed but the brake cable does not have a part number.  Now to find out the price... ::)
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline r.man

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2016, 07:58:25 PM »
I had a similar motor that had a worn cam so the points wouldn't open, put in an electronic kit to get it running.
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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2016, 09:38:26 PM »
Went to NAPA and picked up a coil, points, plug, fuel filter and fuel line.  Installed the coil, point and plug.  Cam lifted the points just fine.  Re-wired.  One odd wire off the ignition switch that I think was connected to the fuel pump.  Not shown in the Operations Manual - probably had a manual fuel pump originally.

Carb looks like its toast.  Found one on Amazon for about $40.  Figure I'll get that since a rebuild kit is $12-16 and that's without having to replace the float.

Called the hydraulic shop that makes the ag cables.  Got a price of $44 on the one - sure beats the price I saw online with another company of $122!  Waiting for a quote on the other (parking brake) cable.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Remle

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2016, 10:51:45 AM »
"Went to NAPA and picked up a coil, points, plug, fuel filter and fuel line." Did the coil have a condenser with it ?? If not you will need one !!

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2016, 10:54:27 AM »
"Went to NAPA and picked up a coil, points, plug, fuel filter and fuel line." Did the coil have a condenser with it ?? If not you will need one !!

Yep!  Had a dooh! moment when I got home.  Picking up one today.  New carb might be here on Saturday so might have it running soon.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline John Mc

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2016, 08:42:50 AM »
Looks like a nice project.

Do you know at what RPMs your snowblower likes to be driven? Performance on those drops off quite a bit as you slow them down.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2016, 11:47:01 AM »
Looks like a nice project.

Do you know at what RPMs your snowblower likes to be driven? Performance on those drops off quite a bit as you slow them down.

I don't know and will need to look it up.  My first try with this blower I cobbled a 7hp motor to it and was belted down to about 2:1.   

 

It worked great until the belt started slipping.  I found that the DR Powerwagon was just too much hassle (shifting forward/reverse) and not enough traction.  So I picked up this trencher to make it easier.

Next question, though.  The tires need to be replaced. 

My "goal" for this machine is to be multi-purpose.  I will keep the digging chain around and hope to make it a fairly easy swap on on off the frame.  I will use it for snow blowing and plowing.  I have a thought about rigging up a winch (12v, possibly mechanical like Kbietz or hydraulic) and use it as a little skidder with a log arch.  This doesn't weigh in like a tractor but at 1,800#, its nearly 3 times the weight of my ATV (which has limited success moving logs).

Obviously, Ag tires would be best in the dirt, but I'm having concerns about traction on snow and ice.  Chains would be required but they are a bit of a pain on ags, right?  If I put turfs on, chains would be good but dirt not so well.  I could use chains on the dirt but I would think that would eat up the ags.  Thoughts?

Also, best pricing on 23.0 10.5x12 6 plys.  I'm seeing about $300-350 on a set of 4 off of eBay (Deestone brand).
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2016, 07:38:11 PM »
I blow snow with the wife's tractor.30hp,turf tires,the rear are loaded. Yes,chains would be easier sometimes,but I have a 500 foot driveway and it does it easy. I may not be able to blow snow uphill,but that only happens in about 2-3 storms. I just drive up the hill and get to the top and I'm all set. How much more for 8 plys? Just thinking of the woods. Stumps and rocks,if you have rocks, are hard on tires. I cut my stumps real low,but the woods are hard on tires. Even on a small scale. Try it with no chains and see what happens.
Looks like you need fire wood too. How about a trailer behind it? I use the wife's tractor in the woods and put a trailer behind it. It did real good with it. I was happy with it.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline Remle

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2016, 07:51:20 PM »
Looks like a fun project. I know pictures often do not do justice, that is to say the tires maybe worse than they look in the pictures, but they do not look to bad, IMHO, theirs more life left, I would run them till they go flat.. The turf tire won't be good on dirt or snow, so I'd stay with the Ag tire, chains will not hurt them. Which way does the seat face ? Sure would be nice to be able to flip it both ways to face the direction you are traveling in..

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2016, 08:06:30 PM »
Looks like a fun project. I know pictures often do not do justice, that is to say the tires maybe worse than they look in the pictures, but they do not look to bad, IMHO, theirs more life left, I would run them till they go flat.. The turf tire won't be good on dirt or snow, so I'd stay with the Ag tire, chains will not hurt them. Which way does the seat face ? Sure would be nice to be able to flip it both ways to face the direction you are traveling in..

Each tire has a unique problem.  One looses air.  On a few, the sidewall is starting to peel off.  On another one or two, the lugs are starting to peel where they were sitting on the ground for 7 years.  All are deeply checked where they were sitting on the dirt.

The seat (as shown in the operators manual) is just a block of vinyl covered foam.  My seat actually swivels.  There are foot rests just above and behind the plow blade and another set in the middle.  When trenching, you face the trencher (where my snowblower will be) and drive backwards when digging.  When back filling, you face the blade.  The joy stick on the side controls direction and speed as well as the steering.

All I have found on-line are 4 ply and 6 ply.  Monday I'm going down to the big tire place in Sacramento to see what they have to offer.  Who knows, maybe they will have some decent used ones...

I was thinking of adding tubes so I can fill them.  There was a thread on here I think debating what to use - Rim-guard (I think that was beet juice) or WW fluid?  Do you fill them all the way up, half way or ??
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2016, 08:12:47 PM »
I would get at least 6ply. I would be tubes in them no matter what. Wife's tractor and my tractor,as soon as I would have trouble with a front tire,a tube would go into it. I think both tractors front tires have tubes in them. If putting tires on,put tubes in them. I just think it's better. Stopped the flat tires on both tractors.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2016, 08:19:37 PM »
Yes, I'm not doing anything less then 6-ply.  Years ago, I had a big old 1961 Case 210B that needed tires.  They were filled with water.  The rims were rusted a little bit.  From that point on, I put tubes in everything.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline John Mc

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Re: New toy - Kohler 16hp engine questions
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2016, 09:33:07 PM »
I was thinking of adding tubes so I can fill them.  There was a thread on here I think debating what to use - Rim-guard (I think that was beet juice) or WW fluid?  Do you fill them all the way up, half way or ??

I'm not a fan of WW fluid, but I know lots of people use it.  Rim Guard is significantly heavier, and is completely non-toxic, so if you get a lea, you don;t have to worry about a pet getting in to it.

You do not fill the tire full. You fill it just enough to cover the top of the rim. This leaves enough air in the tire to give it some flex. Since the liquid fill is not compressible, it would be like riding on tires made of stone.  If you fill with something non-corrosive (like RimGuard), you can put in a bit less: some folks fill to just below the valve stem. When adjusting air pressure, they roll the tire to put the stem on top and not have to deal with liquid coming out of the valve stem.

Another note: when running filled tires, people often drop the tire pressure a bit. Since there is less air space, you tend to get a stiffer ride (which bounces both you and the equipment a bit harder). Airing down a bit partially helps make up for it.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow


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