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Forest fire

Started by sawguy21, May 04, 2016, 11:58:28 AM

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sawguy21

My bil and nephew work out of a 130 km camp north of Ft McMurray Alberta, it is ugly up there right now. They just went back to work the other day but are now on a moments notice to leave as the camp is needed for evacuees from town. However nothing is flying in or out because of the smoke and the only road leads to the fire.
Gas pumps are dry in town, evacuees heading south on the highways are stranded. RCMP and tank trucks are patrolling the roads to make sure everyone on the clogged two lanes gets out safely.
Fire officials say it will only get worse, temperatures are in the high 20's, low to mid 90's Fahrenheit, with strong winds. The CBC news images are frightening.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

thecfarm

That does not sound good.  :(
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

DeerMeadowFarm

I just saw some pictures of this...not good.  :-\

WmFritz

Quote from: DeerMeadowFarm on May 04, 2016, 01:15:19 PM
I just saw some pictures of this...not good.  :-\

I did too. I read an interview by one woman that said it looked like a zombie apocalypse trying to leave town. The article said 80,000 people need to be evacuated. Was that a misprint?
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

Woodhauler

No misprint, whole town 80,000 people  told to leave.
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

petefrom bearswamp

Good idea to evacuate.
Remember the Peshtigo fire in WIS and the tillamook in OR?
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Just saw this on the news. Its impossible to fight a fire of that magnitude with equipment and having those high winds. Nature plays a big part in the intensity and nature will have to play a big part in containing it.
Good luck up there.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

red

Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

Chuck White

The pics on the evening news tonight were bad, real bad.

My heart goes out the ones on the evac route!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Ianab

News here reports 1600 structures destroyed by fire. I'm guessing that's not ALL houses, but I'm sure a heck of a lot are.

Getting everyone out before it was too late seems to have been a REALLY good idea. Lot of people could have died of they left it too late.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

thecfarm

I saw the report on the news too. Trees burning besides the roads is not a good sight. Saw some homes that was gone too. :o
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

r.man

I was a fire fighter for just one summer in the eighties, we didn't see a lot of action because we were basically extras but we saw some up close. I cannot stress how dangerous forest fires are, I have no desire to be within a few hundred miles of one and would not wait until I got an evacuation order to put lots of distance between myself and any fire. We once bolted and left our equipment to burn because of a wind change and that was in fairly mild conditions. Think of the worst campfire smoke you have ever stepped into and now make everywhere like that while trying to decide which way is safe to go. Not a good situation and I really feel for the people affected.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

sawguy21

Last we heard, bil and nephew are stuck at the camp airstrip. The buses left to evacuate camps closer to the fire, no flights in or out and it's a long walk back to the bunkhouses. We don't know how sleeping accommodations, sanitary facilities and meals are being handled.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

starmac

As I understand it, even the new school which is close to the center of town has burned. What I read last night was the town was mandatorily vacuated, but at the same time the road that was needed to take was closed, so everybody had to go thre wrong way which did not lead to any help until they ran out of gas. They were bring in tankers trying to get everybody up and running again.

I drove through Alberta, the week before last and they were already fighting fires then, hope that they catch a break from mother nature.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Bandmill Bandit

I live about 4 hours south of the fire and my daughters very good friend was sent in yesterday with the Army and reserves.

Approximately 1600 to 1800 structures destroyed as of last night.

My daughter works for StanTech and the new school they are building for September opening date was completely destroyed along with 2 new neighbor hoods that were close to 80 percent complete are gone as well.

The boots on the ground are working hard to protect and save infrastructure and directing the excuation of some 50,000 plus people. Water treatment plant and pumping station along with the sewage treatment plant, municipal yards and shops were at risk last night as well as one of the fire stations.

Air port was also at risk and Transport Canada had called in the air force to shift the air port to another industrial heavy transport air field.

Conner said Afghanistan and Iraq was not a lot different  then this for the emotional state of the people and the fact you 10s of 1000s of people trying to get out of town on the only high way in there and its mostly a 2 lane high way under construction getting twined. He said the good part is that the people aren't trying to shoot you.

Temperature to day is 14 degrees C so far and its cloud and we are getting a little rain.

We need it to dump for a few days but this will help the fire fighters alot and will suppress smoke so that the water bombers can get in closer.

This one makes the last one look like a camp fire.   
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/fort-mcmurray-fire-alberta-expands-evacuations-1.2888796   
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

sawguy21

Many did not get enough warning to have time to gas up and the stations had to close up as people fled. The city was cut in half by the fire as the only bridge was threatened, those on the north side of the river were forced to go north to the camps. The fire came in from the southwest so the main highway south runs right by it, dash cams showed flames beside the road and sparks flying around the slow moving vehicles. I can't imagine being an LEO out there directing traffic.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Paul_H

My Brother was evacuated to North hills camp and is just flying out today. He has a house in one of the bad areas but doesn't know yet if it's still there. 
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

DanG

"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Chuck White

I couldn't imagine going through that gut-wrenching ordeal!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

lowpolyjoe

I saw the coverage on the news this evening.  Terrifying.   


sawguy21

Bil and nephew have been moved to a camp further north to make room for evacuees. According to my sister (who is a nervous wreck) there will be five flights an hour round the clock to move 18000 people to Edmonton or Calgary starting tomorrow, they need the camps for fire fighters. The guys have been split up, they don't know which flight(s) they will be on and will be going at a moments notice. My nephew's wife is driving to Red Deer, halfway between the two cities to retrieve them and drive home. The logistics are mind boggling.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Brucer

May 1: Large fire burning in the forest, well south of town and west of the highway, wind blowing from the east, no structures downwind. Something to keep an eye on, but not alarming.

May 2: Fire doubles in size, but still moving to the west. A few people receive an"evacuation alert", which means they could be ordered to leave and could get as little as 15 minutes warning.

May 3: Fire doubles in size again, still moving moving to the west, but starting to curl northward. Huge clouds of smoke in the distance, sunny over the city, a few neighbourhoods on the outskirts put on evacuation alert.

Suddenly, just around noon, the fire explodes. No one was prepared for this. Fire is now burning east toward the highway. Wind is carrying firebrands up to 2 km (more than a mile) ahead of the fire. Fire jumps the Athabaska river. Entire city is ordered to evacuate.

May 4. Fire quadruples in size over previous day. Fire now burning on both sides of the river, moving east and north directly toward town. South of the city the fire burns eastward across the highway and approaches the airport. Fire operations centre has to be evacuated to a community to the south.

May 5 (today): Fire grows by a factor of 8 over the previous day. Winds up to 70 km/hr (45 MPH). Structural firefighters are working inside the city trying to save buildings. Wildfire crews can do nothing to stop the spread of the fire (as one operations chief said, dropping water from the air on a fire this size is like spitting in a campfire.) Three communities south of the city are evacuated. Fire operations centre has to be evacuated again.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

square1

Prayers for the safety of those fleeing and those fighting this inferno. Most things can be replaced, but their lives cannot.

thecfarm

It just keeps getting worse. :o  :( :(
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

OntarioAl

The Fort Fire is a real tragedy with a silver lining about 90,000 people evacuated and no lives lost to the fire (unfortunately one young lady was killed  in a traffic accident).
Large Forest Fires are nothing new to this region check out The Great Fire of 1919 2.8 million ha (almost 6.9 million acres)
https://merlemassie.wordpress.com/2015/05/19/the-great-fire-of-1919/
Ontario is starting to pick up some serious fire activity in the Kenora Red Lake areas on the border with the province of Manitoba.
Could be a serious fire season
Al
Al Raman

sawguy21

My bil and nephew are on their way to Calgary  8) This is really crippling a fragile oil industry as well as local forestry, the area is a major producer of pulp and strand board. There are some sawmills but most of the timber is 'swamp spruce' or tree length fence posts.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

coxy

Quote from: sawguy21 on May 06, 2016, 12:53:05 PM
My bil and nephew are on their way to Calgary  8) This is really crippling a fragile oil industry as well as local forestry, the area is a major producer of pulp and strand board. There are some sawmills but most of the timber is 'swamp spruce' or tree length fence posts.
sorry to hear      wish you could get some of the rain we are getting

starmac

They have a dire situation over there. We had one of the dryest winters on record and are worried about the fire season we will have. They are in the same boat, except are ahead of us somewhat. I drove through northern Alberta a couple of weeks ago, not that far north, but talked to some of the fire crews that were already fighting fires in the high prarie area.

It is somewhat unusual for a fire to go through a city, and their plight is compounded by the fact there is just one highway going through there, Not to mention highways there are smaller than what most think of county secondary roads, they have quite the predicamint going on, lord help them.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

coxy

I know its been dry but is part of it because of no logging and all the dead trees and no roads/trails to help fight it    please tell me if I'm wrong or out of line for saying it that way

sawguy21

The area is criss crossed with seismic cut lines so there is lots of access. They didn't get hit with the beetle infestation so most of the trees are reasonably healthy, just dry. The fire started heading away from the city then the wind changed, and the forest seemed to explode.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Bandmill Bandit

as tragic as this Fire situation is, this is Alberta! We get knocked down and we get up again and then help some one next to us to get up too.

We may be a Gang that will mob you when you when our province is attacked but we are the same gang that will load pickups pulling trailers with jerry cans and slip tanks full of GAS and Diesel and drive straight up a SINGLE road into the heart of the fire to provide fuel to people that have run out of fuel so they are able to get out. Even horses have been put to use to transport fuel to stranded people.

There are crazy people and then there are Albertans. We have to be to live here! Our basement is the true location of Hell!

Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Brucer

Quote from: coxy on May 06, 2016, 07:21:44 PM
I know its been dry but is part of it because of no logging and all the dead trees and no roads/trails to help fight it    please tell me if I'm wrong or out of line for saying it that way

You're not out of line, the questions are valid. Some answers are ...

1) These are healthy (huge) forests.
2) Fires are part of the life cycle of a forest and help to rejuvenate it.
3) The access roads are there but are of absolutely no use in fighting a fire like this (see David Poston's post #6 on the previous page).

This fire would not have been a big deal had it not happened to hit Fort McMurry, just as hurricane Katrina would not have been a big deal if it hadn't hit New Orleans.

I listened to someone on the radio yesterday complaining because "the government" wasn't doing enough to protect large cities in Canada from wildfires. What could they do? The fire was blowing basketball clumps of burning debris over a mile ahead of the fire (and that was before the winds really picked up. It jumped the Athabaska river, which is over a kilometer wide (half a mile).

What really matters is how the entire country has pitched in to help. The oil companies in the area opened up their camps to refugees who had to escape to the north. They're now providing accommodation to police and firefighters. Canada's second largest airline, Westjet, has been offering free flights from the camps to the major cities in the south. A company has donated a bunch of mobile homes, and the land to erect them on, in a smaller city south of Fort McMurray. Two weddings that would have been postponed have gone ahead with everything donated (including the wedding rings in one case). Bed and Breakfast owners are donating their accommodations. Private donations have surpassed $30 million dollars (in just 3 days).

And, as is usually the case, the media picks up on the devastation. Photos appear of whole neighbourhoods completely gutted. That's newsworthy. You don't see photos of the other end of the city where whole neighbourhoods are (so far) intact.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

thecfarm

Basketball clumps of burning debris is bad enough but sending that through the air a mile is really something bad.
We've had 2 fires here on the hill. Both small ones. One bordered my land and things helped slow it down. No slash for it to burn on,at that time my land was not logged. There was nothing for the fire to creep onto. As soon as it got into my pines the ground was bare. No fuel for the fire to burn.The other guy had his cut hard,so it did not have many softwood trees to burn,fire dept came with a 2 inch hose and it started to rain.I was cutting trees on his side so the fire would not get into my pine.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

SwampDonkey

It's about the worst nightmare to be in the middle of that fire. One thing about fire in thick softwoods is it does not even have to be on the ground if there is a hard wind. Plus wind created by fire. It can travel fast just in the tree crowns. Plus all the fine dry fuel tied up in dead lower limbs. Those green tops is like burning kerosene. Spruce-fir woods grow thicker than pine so it's easy to move tree to tree.

Good luck to all getting out and safe. We are just thankful in or neck of the woods because of lots of rural settlement that we have lots of ways out. And large cleared fields to break up such a disaster. Back in the day of the great Miramichi fire of 1815 they were not as lucky. One of the largest forest fires on the continent. Over 500 lives lost.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

sandhills

Central Nebraska is just a haze right now, I haven't heard of any fires around here so with a strong north wind I'm guessing it's coming from Canada?  Wish the best for everyone up there, I can't imagine the devastating losses, stay safe.

sawguy21

Swamp talks about crowning, that has to be seen to be believed. No way anyone is outrunning it. Some years ago I flew over the area burned by the large Mariana Lake fire south of Ft Mac. It was quite amazing, there were islands of green untouched by fire amid huge swaths of black, the fire had crowned taking out the trees on high ground and going right over the lower swampy areas.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Roxie

Quote from: sandhills on May 07, 2016, 01:09:12 PM
Central Nebraska is just a haze right now, I haven't heard of any fires around here so with a strong north wind I'm guessing it's coming from Canada?  Wish the best for everyone up there, I can't imagine the devastating losses, stay safe.

I heard on the news this morning that satellite images are showing haze as far south as Georgia. 
Say when

sawguy21

Only several days of heavy rain is going to slow this one down, it could burn for weeks or even months. It is headed east and will likely cross into Saskatchewan. There are no major centers in it's path but there are many native villages, some with no road access, that will need to be evacuated.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Brucer

The fire front has moved on. Temperatures have lowered (good), humidity has increased (good), a bit of light rain (good). Forestry crews are hunting down hot spots and extinguishing them -- hot, dirty, grueling work but necessary to prevent flare ups.

Government officials, along with the media, have toured the city (and sent video to the evacuees). Yes, whole neighbourhoods were destroyed, but other neighbourhoods were untouched and 85% of the homes are still intact. Early on, fire crews fought to save the water treatment plant, the hospital, and the schools. It seemed trivial to many people at the time, but those facilities are key to getting the town up and running again. Gas is off, but power is still functioning in several areas. There is a lot of toxic ash that has to be cleaned up.

The planning for resettlement is already under way. None of the tarsands production facilities were damaged. They shut down during the worst of the fire so they could ship out their operating and maintenance personnel to make room for fire fighters. Now two small facilities have restarted and the big ones are making plans to start up again.

Tens of millions of dollars were donated to the Canadian Red Cross for relief efforts in Fort McMurray. The federal government and the Alberta government pledged to match those donations dollar for dollar. That's in addition to hundreds of millions in government spending to restore the city.

It will be weeks before people can start returning, but they will most definitely be back.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

sandsawmill14

thanks for the update Brucer im glad to here its getting better :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Ianab

I'm guessing that with water / power / school / hospital etc and the majority of the houses / businesses intact that most people will be able to move back home in weeks ?

If they had lost those essential services it would take months to make the city habitable again.

Different sort of devastation, but Christchurch was badly hit by an earthquake in 2011. They are still rebuilding the center city area. Most of the larger buildings withstood the quake, as did most houses. But most where damaged and, and the majority of the larger building have to be rebuilt. Takes years to rebuild a whole city.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Brucer

My guess is 2 to 4 months :(.

The governments have learned from previous disasters and actually improved how they handle the restoration.

Among the first people to be moved back will be shop-owners (provided their shops are still standing). Not much point in letting people go back if they can't buy groceries and other essentials.

Every refrigerator and freezer in the community will be unsalvagable. I'd guess there'll be 40,000 or so appliances that will be trash. After the Slave Lake fire 5 years ago they had the owners duct-tape the doors shut and roll them out to the curb. They were taken directly to the landfill.

There will be toxic dust everywhere -- all generated by the high temperature fires in the burnt-out houses. Standing homes will have to be checked out before people can safely move back.

I just read that the guy who managed the recovery of Slave Lake was hired to spearhead the restoration plans for Fort McMurray. That will help speed up the process (and get it right).

Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

sandhills


Bandmill Bandit

The recovery & Restoration process is now under way and is going quite well From ALL reports.

The team tasked with getting it underway is experienced and lead by a very capable adn experienced Gentleman.

A look at this report  http://www.slavelake.ca/live/digitalAssets/2/2272_1Transition_Newletter.pdf 
will give any one who is interested a pretty good idea of how this recovery will go.

The Volunteer part of the clean up program is expected to launch this wee kto allow people to spend the Victoria Day week end in the "Fort Mac" area to help get things well under way. There many families booking their holidays to go up there to help. RV sales at the local dealers here have increased quite sharply and a couple of the sales people I know at the dealers are saying that the first trip for most of them is to Fort Mac for a week end and up to 4 weeks to help the clean up.

We may be red necks in this Province but we help our neighbor. Slave lake took 4 years and there are still a few infrastructure improvements under way so it no over yet for that community. Fort Mac will not be any less time to recover. But recover we will!       
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

red

Hard to believe the fire is still burning
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

DelawhereJoe

This fire is nearing the size of Delaware about 2000 sq mi's, its a terrible thing that so many people have been displaced by this fire. If I could find a way to send some of this rain up that way I would gladly do it.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

Bandmill Bandit

the last week has been cooler and we are getting some rain BUT we need it to rain steady for 3 or 4 days. Recovery is underway.

My oldest daughter and a few friends organized a group to volunteer distribute clothes and food and other essentials at one of the main distribution centres in Edmonton for the weekend. I will post a report when she gets back to town. I am sure she will have a few pictures I can post.

If people from the forum would like to donate I can post the Red Cross Donation web site to make it simple to do and so you dont get to any of the scam web sites out there.

http://www.redcross.ca/donate#selected-appeal-82628fd5-2c84-4db7-abe8-5968eca9335f

That link will get you there.     
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

sawguy21

 8) The response has been tremendous. Residents are scheduled to start returning June 1, utilities have been mostly restored and most homes have been deemed safe to enter. Full recovery is probably a couple of years away. Right now a major concern is foraging bears who have been burned out of their habitat.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

coxy

at least that's some good news  the bears will become food for the people  :-\ ;D

sawguy21

The  fire is still out of control, it could take months to stop unless the weather cooperates which at this point seems unlikely. It has already burned over 580,000 hectares, more than 1.4 million acres. Fortunately the area is sparsely populated but the livelihood of the residents is destroyed along with the vegetation and wildlife.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

sandhills

I can't even imagine that and I do everything by acres, prayers for everyone up there and for rain.

red

There is a Wikipedia page    2016 Fort Mc Murray Wildfire " The Beast "
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

SwampDonkey

Well, probably won't have to worry about pine beetle spreading east on jack pine.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

thecfarm

You would think with all the equipment we have we could control a fire.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

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