Crosscutting Big Slabs

[Andries]

Yellowhammer, you had made this point a few post back:
"We work the week getting the lumber ready to sell, knowing each post sawing operation significantly increases the value of the product, so even though the mill is turned off we are still increasing profit."

After you made the decision to sell to the retail market - for one day per week, you also cut out any middlemen.
Smart business move. Delivering the final product to the final customer.

I've been selling some slabs as well, trying to take advantage of the rustic furniture fashion trend before it disappears.
Here's what my scouting turned up:
Festool Sword SSU

Love the Festool line, but this one hasn't escaped from European markets, yet.

Makita 16 5/16"

One honking big saw, or the world's most petite woodworker ever! (maybe both).

Skil Sawsquatch 10 1/4"

My 'Black Friday' purchase at Acme Tool in Fargo ND.
This is a totally redesigned "Bigfoot" Skil saw, stronger, cool running motor and a wet bath worm gear.
Word of advice, use a heavy gauge extension cord, this baby needs ALL of its 15 amps.

So, for the final customer, the simplest way to get those final crosscut or rip cuts made:
Clamp the slab so that it overhangs the tractor forks, make the cuts using a thin baltic plywood ripping guide, dust and lower the final product into the customers truck.
If this works up here in the snowy North, it might work for you down there in the balmy South?

[YellowHammer]

I've never seen the sword, pretty nice.  The Makita is a monster, for sure.  I'm still undecided, but just this last weekend we sold 6 slabs, and I was asked to trim 4 of them.  Easy crosscuts, but my crosscut saw required double cutting all of them.  Simple, easy job turned total pain.

The slab retail market for us is here to stay.  The money is too easy.  The sawing is just as easy, and the recovery from the log is very high.

On a different subject, the slab rack is a success,  8) I can't even remember how we got along without it, even though it has only been built a few weeks.   

[xlogger]

They sticks are 5/4 x 5/4.  It's 3.5 inch clear opening between sticks. I hope the customers will be able see well enough, but we will see.  I tried a few slabs today, and need to make a few adjustments but it seems it will work well.
This is from Roberts reply. I must of deleted too much of his response.



Robert, can you see the slabs without pulling them out pretty good with the 3.5" opening?

Also wondering if how it would work putting green slabs in one like that to dry without sticker stain. Do you think without weigh on top they might move too much.

[WDH]

My experience is that green slabs, standing vertical exposed to the air without being stickered with other slabs, tend to check and crack badly and also twist and warp more.  I try to sticker slabs in a herd and cover the top layer of slabs with a stickered layer of nurse boards on top.  Warped and twisted slabs are a huge downgrade. 

[YellowHammer]

I wouldn't want the spacing any less than 3.5" but it seems to work pretty well.  Wider may work better, but I wanted to get the holding capacity up.  We have a small safety chain draped over the rack so they can't pull them out and drop them on themselves.  The gap in the floor boards are also important.  If it's right, it will feel like the slabs are being sucked back into the rack. 

[xlogger]

I'm going to build me something like that soon. I picked up a River Birch last week and going to get a Beech this morning to slab up. Maybe a poplar also.
I'm close to biting the bullet on a slabber. I talked to Jake yesterday and told him I would buy a turbo saw slabber, but now he can't ship till later next month. I'm going to look around some but I do like some of things the turbo has over others. I'm the type if I say I'll buy it I want it now, could change my mind in two months.

I said I might be getting too old to buy another machine but Danny said we still had a few good years left ;D.

[WDH]

Make hay while the sun shines (old saying). 

[Den Socling]

It amazes me how long this thread has run after Ian had the answer with the first post.
Well I've used a chainsaw before   :D
:D :D

[YellowHammer]

It amazes me how long this thread has run after Ian had the answer with the first post.
Well I've used a chainsaw before   :D
:D :D

We've covered quite a few subjects here... 8)
I'm probably going for the big track saw for a Christmas present.
We haven't even got to the part about drying big slabs quicker. ;D

[DelawhereJoe]

I don't know if any has said or posted about it but I saw on Amazon that they have a conversation kit for worm drive circle saws to use a small bar and chain.

Prazi USA PR7000 Beam Cutter for 7-1/4-Inch Worm Drive Saws

[xlogger]

:D :D
[/quote]

We haven't even got to the part about drying big slabs quicker. ;D
[/quote]

I bet Den has a answer for that.

[Den Socling]

How about 10 days off the saw? 

[Andries]

Den:
Really?
Drop a tree, mill out a whack o' slabs and then,
Slabs 2 1/2" to 4" thick, down to 10% moisture?
How's that possible?

[Ianab]

How's that possible?

Den has high tech Vacuum Kilns.

You know the old saying.
Cheap, Good, Fast... Pick any two.

His kilns are Good, and Fast. That means that unfortunately they aren't cheap...  :D

[Den Socling]

Our vacuum kilns aren't cheap but they will pull the water out in about 10 days. You end up with slabs that are 8%, sterile and they aren't cracked. If you have the market, you can make a fortune. I've been doing it for years but the word-of mouth has finally spread. Delivery is long.

[Andries]

Is that commercially available and viable from a money making point of view?
So, Yellowhammer.
This puts some bunch of new perspective on slab sales!
50  plus slabs sold per weekend retail day, for the whole year.
Does that pay for a high end 'den' super wood kiln?
. . and maybe time to reconsider the slab cutting options?

[Den Socling]

We have somewhere around 100 kilns drying wood around the world. Some are drying wood that could never be dried before like New Zealand Red Beech.

[YellowHammer]

Just for my info, what does a basic Vacum Kiln start at?  I'm assuming somewhere in the hundred grand range? 

Without doubt, one of the biggest drawbacks to a conventional kiln approach to drying slabs is the time involved for a return on investment.  For example, if I spend $10,000 on big slab walnut logs, my money is tied up for a year, give or take, until the wood has air dried, then kiln dried and processed.  Then do the same with different species, such as maple, persimmon, etc, and I have a lot of money invested doing nothing. That is a hard decision, tie up good money for a long time with a hope of a good product, or take the same amount of money, produce 4/4 at a good clip and sell it immedialty and get my initial investment money back quickly, so it works for me, and is not tied up, stacked up, sitting in a barn for a year. I have some slabs I am now just getting out of the kiln, that the 4/4 wood has been sold and my investment returned, many, many months ago.

The other thing I've already learned about this slab market, in quantity, is that conventional equipment works, but isn't ideal. 
A slabber saw is better than a bandsaw, so I need a wide slabber.
My planer isn't wide enough
My straight line rip saw won't feed slabs that aren't planed.
My cutoff saw won't crosscut big slabs
I need a vacuum kiln
I need an easy way to joint or straightedge slabs
I need a strong back
Or not...

The issues inherent in the simple topic of "Crosscutting Big Slabs" is really just the tip of the iceberg. 

[Den Socling]

This should be done through PM but our kilns start at $95k. But I hate that model. It's too expensive for the 1000 bf that it holds. Our most popular model holds about 3000 bf and cost $137k. The kiln charge in this model is 50" wide x 17' long. That's a complete kiln.

When people ask for a small kiln I have to explain that manufacturing cost does not go down proportionately with capacity. For example, the heating plates cost me more than $1000 each. A lot of machining  and aluminum welding goes into the two ends. The cost is the same whether the plate is 13' long or 26' long. Another example is the cost of the control system. It's about the same whether it goes on a 1000 bf kiln or a 10,000 bf kiln.

And I have a really cool vac grab that lifts slabs right off the fork truck. Save your back.


 



 

Naturally, it's expensive.

[xlogger]

How many are you going to get Robert. Check and see if there is a limit.  :D

[Andries]

Thank you for that info. Den.
I never tumbled to the fact that you make or sell 'kilns on steroids'.
Maybe if I spent less time in the "Sawmilling" section of the Forum, it'd be a good thing.  :D

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

Robert, maybe Den will have a 2-4-1 sale...

Oh, just go ahead and buy a baker's dozen, they're cheaper that way...

Herb

[Den Socling]

It takes a big company to feed more than one. Marucci Sports https://maruccisports.com/wood-bats/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ep4p&utm_term=&utm_ for instance, has 4 of our kilns. But consider that 1 could dry 13 12/4 slabs every 10 days. That would keep a small operation busy.

Edit: That's assuming the slabs are 50" wide x 17' long and you can load only one per layer.

[Den Socling]

I'm also proud to say that Louisville Slugger and Old Hickory Bats uses our kilns. In a week or so we are shipping a kiln to Dove Tail Bat. And we have an order from Cooperstown Bat. Next year essentially every baseball bat in America will be dried in one of our kilns.  8)

Edit: Please excuse my crowing.

[scsmith42]

I'm also proud to say that Louisville Slugger and Old Hickory Bats uses our kilns. In a week or so we are shipping a kiln to Dove Tail Bat. And we have an order from Cooperstown Bat. Next year essentially every baseball bat in America will be dried in one of our kilns.  8)

Edit: Please excuse my crowing.

Crowing is allowed Den!  I look forward to the day when you can brag that "Scott Smith has one of our kilns"! .