my new 'girl' (a TJ200)

[krusty]

Hi folks,

Most of my posts have been on the timberframing side of things and it is time to build a cabin in the woods. Having midlife crisis, I thought a nice old skidder would be better than a fast car so I found myself a 1963 TJ 200. It has the Ford 172 gas in it. I have yet to take it into the woods as I want to spend some time going over it first. It runs and drives fine, a tweak of the winch and will test its strength tomorrow. Lots of small little things to fix on it. Manifold, rewire, lube and fluids etc but nothing major. Oh it should get a new tire. I should say I hope there is nothing major I find!

Want to redo the carb at some point and the manual says it is a TSX but the carb body is definately a zenith. Will take it off tomorrow to see if I can find a tag but this one has me stumped....if there are any zenith carb gurus pls let me know. I am hoping most of the 172 engines with zenith used the same base carbs, gasket wise anyways.

Will get some pics up in the next few days. Its sole purpose is firewood any any nice saw logs I come across. Nothing production oriented.

Krusty,

[Gearbox]

Has that one got a long lever to operate the winch . I ran one like that 40 years ago liked it .

[Neilo]

Interested to see the photos

[furltech]

Are you in nova scotia krusty

[krusty]

Where was I.....

yes it is the model with the long lever to activate the winch.

while I do like NS, I am about 12-15 hours west

And I will get some pics or video in the next couple days when it warms up a bit.

[furltech]

Only reason i asked is i was looking at the mate to that machine and was thinking about making an offer and i see it is off of kijiji just wondered if you had got it

[krusty]

Sorry I forgot to upload a pic. Changed 2 tires, ignition components, manifold to make sure I was happy. There is one gremlin with it running, needs to be on 1/4 to 1/2 choke and it runs fine with lots of power. Have torn apart the carb 3x and still cant find out why. So I broke down and ordered a new carb. I cannot see any other issue with it but will know by next weekend when the carb arrives. The winch seems to work fine. Able to pull myself backwards. Topped up fluids and will need a seal at one wheel/axle. Once the carb issue is resolved there is one more thing I would like to do before it heads into the woods on a warm day....add brakes!

I do have the factory manual from JD and at some point the brake drum was removed. I have seen a couple posts on TFF about using a rotor and caliper from a small car. That is what I think I will try as I do have a good machinist friend if needed. Have yet to pop off the drive shaft from the transfer case yoke to see how it would get attached. Any wisdom appreciated!

Feels good and hillbilly to drive it around the yard :D

[Ridge235]

Hello krusty congrats on your new girl. Looks like she's gonna workout well for you. You mentioned you were able to obtain manuals from Deere, even on this old of machine? Just curious because I have what I think is an early 70s 225 and they told me they have no record of it.  :new_year:

[barbender]

Sweet machine! Yeah, if you were able to get any info out of Deere about an orange TJ you're a way better man than me ;)

[Neilo]

I think all the brake conversion will have been done to the New Process transfer case, not the old style which should be in yours. Some of the old brakes were mechanical, some hydraulic. Does this one hydraulic brakes originally?

More photos would be great.

[bushmechanic]

I have an old TJ 201B same as that one you have there. I put the disc brake on mine and it works great as my driveway is very steep. Mine came with a drum system on it and parts were too hard to find. I used what I had kicking around at the time, a front disc brake and caliper from a 1995 Dodge Dakota. Just make sure when you install it that the bleed nipple is up so you can bleed it. I see someone has extended the arch also. Timberpart's have those seals in stock for the wheel end's.   

[tacks Y]

Have you drained the gas and put new ethenal free gas in it? ( sorry about spelling ) This worked for me on an old Huber. Nice skidder.

[krusty]

Hopefully this link is OK with the admins:

https://www.johndeeretechinfo.com/index.cfm/manual/WC204_LC/

Is what I have. PM me for more info for those who are interested. The manual is 'interesting' to say the least. Parts diagrams are decent, but the service tidbits are lacking compared to a real deere manual.

It does have fresh gas and flows fine out of the tank. I have an old Allis D grader and JD 40C and they purr like kittens but this carb has me stumped. All of my old machines have nice patina and they start on 1/4 crank and that is what I want for this TJ as well. It impresses the neighbors ;)

As for brakes, it had a hydraulic system which is missing the drum hence why I wanted to add something different.

Bushmechanic could you share a bit of detail on how you attached the rotor to the yoke/output shaft and how you attached the caliper? There is still a master cyl in the cab that is not seized and can get going again. To me what you did seems the best option.

[bushmechanic]

A picture is worth a thousand words they say. I removed the backing plate and used a couple of washers to space out the bolts, if not the bolts will strike inside. I drilled the rotor with four new holes to fit the yoke then used longer bolts to bolt the rotor and yoke together. I would have made a bracket to mount the caliper to the transfer case but the caliper was for the wrong side so I welded it in place on the right to the machine body. Don't forget to put the caliper sliders on too. This should give you an idea, hope it helps.

  

  

  

 

[krusty]

Was down in TX this week and had my new Zenith 13875 carb delivered there to save on shipping and taxes. What I do appreciate about this machine is the ease of working on it (so far) as it took about 5 mins to install.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyPXBMRff2g&feature=youtu.be


Had to adjust it but was rather simple. Now I am happy. It started right up as well when installed. The throttle linkage is off by about 1/8" from before but just need a stronger return spring. As well, the choke linkage was set up for a rigid shaft with ball joint, so I added that, but have to hold the choke on while it warms up as it is not like the cable mechanism where it stays out until you push it back in.

[krusty]

Thanks for the pics Bushmechanic. The new rotor is coming this aft and thankfully is cheap. From what I can tell, I will undo the yoke where the old brake was. Will also need to take the output shaft off. There is some type of flywheel on there at the moment. Then drill the 4 new holes and put it back together. Once I have that done I can order a caliper and attach it too.

[krusty]

Yesterday I put the brake rotor on. Was on my way to my machinist friend to help me get the 4 holes drilled for the output yoke. I was worried that I would not have it aligned so I would get him to do it. Stopped in for a drive through coffee and while waiting in line I popped the output yoke into the center of the rotor and realized it was pretty self aligning with the taper on both parts. So I drove back home and drilled the 4 holes myself. Installed it yesterday and tried it out. Quickly understood why Bushmechanic needed spacers so I added them this AM and all is good now running true. Cut down a 10" oak just to make sure things were working good before I head out to cut firewood this week and the winch was fine.

Still need to add the caliper and a seatbelt and away I will go.

[krusty]

Should add, it is a bit cramped and awkward working in there forsure! Put in a new Ujoint to as there was play in the existing one at the top of the shaft.

[bushmechanic]

I'm sure you'll "get er done"! Did you buy that machine from Kelly? Yes it is cramped trying to do anything around the transfer case on those machines. I think you will find it's a capable machine for firewood.

[krusty]

Spent about 6 hours so far cutting and skidding and it is plenty good for my needs. It has been a mild winter and am breaking through the frost when I winch up and drive out so will just go with 1 or 2 trees at a time when I am in the swamp. Finally figured out the free spool option on the winch too. Last little tweak needed is to stop the PTO engaging handle from popping out.

Any suggestions on where to get chokers? I broke 2 so far. They were well used and might as well stock up on replacements! Am in Ont but can get them shipped to NY for US based businesses as well.

[GRANITEstateMP]

  Labonville in NH or ME has them.  Pretty sure they wouldn't mind shipping them to NY, heck sure they have dealt with Canada plenty too!  I got my chaps from them, good product (so far).

https://www.labonville.com/

[larry1]

I operated the same machine when I was only 15 . It had a great winch and I skidded big veneer back in the day . We overworked it and the gas engine blew up , so we installed a 6 cyl int. gas by extending the front end 18 " -then we had lots of power !!! --HAVE FUN !!

[deerguy]

Krusty, if you want to buy in Canadian dollars, there is Sling Choker stores across the North. I bought chokers from their North Bay location, but there might be one closer to where you are....??? An option at least.....

[krusty]

I found a place in NY that had them available and was 1 day shipping for free. Cant beat that.

Larry1: it has been a hoot to drive and am much more skilled in a short time. Since I am select harvesting I am only dragging a couple trees at a time and it has plenty of power. I wish I had a video of what I did last winter for firewood....a '71 Skidoo alpine pulling a plastic ice sled 1/4 of a cord at a time.

This year is sooooo much quicker and am making a nice skidoo trail through the woods.

Today started running real rough until it died. Then I realized the gap and the points seemed to be to close. Opened them up a bit and off we went.

[Gearbox]

Lube that point cam or it will wear the rubbing block off and will quit again .

[krusty]

So far the skidder has run all winter without issue. Though I am just cutting firewood and a few saw logs myself.

The front axle Ujoint needs to be replaced and if I take that axle shaft out once I might as well do them all at the same time.

From the transfer case, there is a Ujoint, short section of drive shaft, another Ujoint. Then a longer section of drive shaft, then Ujoint at the front diff. At the rear portion of the long drive shaft, it is held in place by a bearing of sorts to the frame. While it is caked in grease and I have yet to clean the gunk off, how does one get that shaft from the bearing, or the shaft out of the frame. You would have had to seen it to understand it

I really dont want to be pressing out the front end Ujoint from underneath the machine if I dont have to.

Crazy winter, freeze, thaw, flood, repeat. Am cutting ash in a swamp.

[bushmechanic]

There are two studs welded to the block that the bearing is in. The nuts have to removed from behind the bracket that is welded to the left side of the frame. Remove the nuts and the complete driveshaft can be removed with the steady bearing. To remove the steady bearing you must remove the yoke next to it. Don't forget to index your yokes when doing u joints!

[krusty]

Bushmechanic that makes perfect sense thanks! I could feel the hex heads on those studs but since they were covered in years of fluid it did not make sense. But now it does. Appreciate it!

Oh and I am always careful on yoke alignment.

[krusty]

Hi folks,

I am ready to start hauling my firewood out of the woods but will need to use my TJ to pull my dump trailer through the muddy spots given the rain we have had so far this year. It should have been well dried out except for these 1 in 100 year rain events.

The last couple times I went in to move things around, it would only start and run for a min or 2 before it would die without full choke and now it wont start at all. The carb and ignition is new. It would run fine for 60 seconds without issue. I thought maybe clogged fuel filter so changed that with no issue and the fuel flow out of the tank is good. Took my carb off and ran it through my ultrasonic cleaner and will reinstall this weekend. Will also confirm spark at the plugs.

I am pondering whether some rain has entered into the tank somehow given how torrential it has been coming down. Next step will be to drain the tank and fill with fresh fuel. Seems like it is one of the few things it could be. Any tidbits appreciated!

Also pondering where I should put a hitch on the TJ to tow my dump trailer through the wet areas or just pull it through with the cable?

[Corley5]

Ignition condenser 

[krusty]

That is an easy fix....will pick one up tomorrow as well. I guess I should have put my resistor back in the circuit too in the winter. I took it out as had more ignition issues until I realized the wire from the coil to distrib was in poor shape. With that in order it ran super solid until this issue.

[North River Energy]

If it was running, and now it's not, and the only thing between the two is time and humidity, then your points may be gunked up. If/when/before you change the condensor, remove the points and drag some emery paper between the contacts until they shine.

[Corley5]

They don't make points and condensors like they used to. 

[whitepine2]

They don't make points and condensors like they used to.

No they make electronic today put a set in my M farmall
and starts one turn nothing like it but don't need to worry about points any more,should have had then years ago,was told about them
but ya know how it is just didn't do it stubbing  I guess. Try it I'm sure you will like, good luck

[bushmechanic]

You had better put that resistor into the system for sure. That cuts the voltage down so your points don't burn up, which is most likely what's wrong now.

[Corley5]

I've got Pertronix systems in a couple old Farmalls and a JD.

[krusty]

I do see Pertronix available for the 172 but expensive here in Canada. Will grab it on my next work trip to the US. In the interim will put points and a new condenser in this weekend and will let you all know.

[krusty]

New points and condenser were put in and made no difference so I added a new coil and we are back in business. Also put in a new 1.5 ohm resistor and with it in the circuit, I only had 6v across the coil. It is not enough to give good spark when warm. Will try a 1 ohm resistor which should bring it up 7 v or should I just go for a .75 ohm and get it up to 8v? I heard the UC12 coils were happiest at 8v.

Thoughts?

[mike_belben]

I put a big $ pertronix in my 1.6L gas bobcat and it burned up in a month. Not happy with them.

Its typical to have a high voltage start current and a low voltage run current through your breaker points.  Example, your crank position wire bypasses the external resistor but your run position on the ignition switch goes through coil and resistor.  Say 11v cranking and 7v running. 

[krusty]

I called the tech support number for SMP to get an idea of ideal voltage and max current for one of their coils. The individual seemed pained to find an answer for my questions.

Running the UC12 with no resistor gives me excellent results engine wise but of course will eat coils.

Measured voltage across the coil when hot was 6v on a full battery. That seems a bit low and also not enough spark to make the engine run well. Currently using a 1.5 ohm resistor and the UC12 has 1.3 - 1.5 ohm resistance so that math makes perfect sense. Ordered a MSD8214 resistor at .8 ohm which should give me 7.2 - 7.8 v across the coil. Stay tuned on results.

[bushmechanic]

You seem to be on top of this! I always thought it was cut down to 6 volts while running. I know some systems use 12 volts for starting then through the resistor for running. Trouble is if you put it direct voltage then it will go to what the alternator puts out, say 14 volts.

[krusty]

Bushmechanic....

I thought I read somewhere else that the ideal voltage for a UC12 coil was around 8v. As for the 12v start, you will see starter solenoids with an in and out for high current and then 1 or 2 terminals in the 1/8" range. If it has one, it is to activate the solenoid. If it has 2, 1 is to activate the solenoid, the other is to connect to the + terminal on the ignition coil thus bypassing the resistor and is only activated when the starter is cranking.

There is an alternator on my old TJ but wiring that up is on my todo list Since it left my house back in the winter is has been in the woods with only fluid top ups and an ignition coil.  I will bring it back home in the fall for a once over before the cold comes.

[krusty]

@bushmechanic do you know what SAE bellhousing size is on the Ford 172 in these? Well I guess it would be on the tranny portion but I have a lead on a good 353 to swap in. Everything should fit fine but want to be sure it will make up to the existing tranny. The 353 is a good runner and cheaper than a 172 rebuild parts and minimal machining as required.

[bushmechanic]

The bell housing will have to change on the gearbox, you will also need an adaptor plate to get to the SAE # of the engine's rear housing. I'm not sure if a 353 will fit into that frame... a military aluminum one might because of the low basepan. A front sump oilpan will be on top of the front differential. I'll try and get some pic's so to help you understand.

[krusty]

Ya the sump looks like it will be a problem. When I take the 172 gasser out, once the front bolts to the frame mount are out can I tilt the engine up and forward or do I need to take the tranny out too? It is caked in oil at the back of the engine so am not sure if I can just disconnect from the bellhousing and remove engine or does the tranny need to come with it?