iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Start of something big?

Started by jeff, February 27, 2001, 05:22:13 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.

Jeff

    
From something so small?
    Well, thanks to SAWTOOTH I have a supply of Alabama Paulownia tomentosa seeds. The talk is of phenomenal growth (10 to 15ft a year??), and fantastic value of the logs. But alas, we may be to far north. Hugh say's if it'll grow here, they should be quite valuable due to the slower rate of growth and resulting tighter growth rings that will occur this far North.
http://www.pauloniatrees.org
http://www.paulownia.com/
I am going to run my experiments with growth right here for all of you to see, success or failure. Starting with a picture of the seeds. I take credit for all success, if they don't even sprout it's Hugh's fault.

This photo shows seeds at twice normal size if your resolution is 800 by 600

Tomorrow, planting and where I will be keeping the seed beds.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

     Our home is on the south side of the road facing north, and that's where most of the windows are. Not a real good direction for sunlight. But! we have a vaulted skylight in the new part of our home and it does face south, so, thats where the paulonia seeds will start out. It should be sunny, a little more humid, and a little warmer, because of the vault. Besides that, the seeds will have all that cedar for moral support!

Sawtooth, if your looking in, how long before germination can be expected??
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Hugh Darty

You should see results in about two weeks. Be sure and check your soil moisture every day, as your growing area appears to be warm and dry, which is what you want. You also don't want much direct sunlight, about sixty to seventy percent of normal.

After your seeds sprout they will set and not grow for two more weeks. After that they will take off! By the middle or end of April yours should be outgrowing your trays and ready to transplant. You should not place them outdoors until all danger of frost is over.
 
I will give planting instructions when trees are right size!
Hugh

Don P

We have a few growing in the neighborhood but ice really seems to do a number on them, about 3000' southern VA mts. There is a beautiful plantation at the base of the mountains, piedmont NC. I'll try to get a pic next time I go down there.???

Gordon

So let me get this straight that if the trees take off and grow great your going to take all credit for them.:)now is that fair Jeff?

So the closer growth rings could also mean a stronger tree??? Or am I in left field on that one?

One last question are the people that are growing these trees finding market for them?

Oh by the way check out my new user pic---8)
Gordon

Jeff

I think the other guys will have to aswer wheather the wood is stronger. From my understanding it would be at least more stable. I would think more dense would translate to more strength. I know that some of the "antique logs" that are being recovered in underwater logging in the great lakes are worth moe because of the closer growth rings then their more modern relatives. Rons?

Naw, I won't take the credit, I just want to draw attention away from me if they don't grow::)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ron Wenrich

Pawlonia is purely an export wood.  The Japanese use it for dowry chests and other things important to their culture.  It is a very light wood and carves very well.

Markets would be primarily with veneer and export log buyers.  There's one over around Havre de Grace, MD.

Gordon should be in a really good area to find them growing wild.  I once had a farm manager from Annapolis who said there were quite a few on the farms he managed on the Eastern shore.  

Hint:  look for purple flowers in the spring.  It also looks a lot like ailanthus.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Jeff

I read somewhere that the wood is valuable, but marketability is low, simply because of the small amount of trees marketable trees yet available. Does that make sense?
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Gordon

This is a post from---Hugh Darty---that he put in my instant message box by mistake and told me to repost it on the main board, so here it is.

Hugh wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Japanese value the close growth rings because of the softer texture, fewer defects in the wood, and scaricity of that grade of wood. The close rings also signify high price which socially is like comparing my Mercedes to your Chevy. The wider ring paulownia is available from China at a cheap price, so it is more common in the poorer peoples homes.
Japanese tradition is for the bride and groom to buy Tansu, (not sure about the spelling) which is Japanese traditional "chest of drawers" for storing silk komona's and clothes. The fewer defects in the Tansu, the fewer defects in the marriage.
Paulownia also works and mills very well. It shrinks or swells very little with changes in humidity. A good Tansu will be built so precise that a drawer will pull a vacuum when opened, and pop out other drawers almost when closed.

Large diameter tight ring logs with few or no defects are very valuable, often being auctioned off to the highest bidder. The rich family of a Japanese bride will buy such a log and have the perfect Tansu made for a wedding gift, insuring a long and happy marriage with no defects.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hugh

Don P

Hugh, so how old is the high value log.How many rings per inch? Ron, sounds like you have them up there. I thought you were icier than us. How are they doing it. See I have this rolling creeping kinda hole appearing in my front yard that would benefit from a competative fast growing high value tree.Pretty flowers are a plus, as the locust have stopped blooming. Told Michelle about Jeffs experiment we have a bet on. She thinks they will periodically freeze back to the surface.

Hugh Darty

Paulownia logs are bought and sold by grade. The best logs are "double A" grade. They must be at least 16 inchs on small end with no knots or defects. Length must at least ten feet. The other grades from worst to best are E,D,C,B, and A. Growth rings in the better grades are at least four per inch.  A "AA" log should be a minimum of sixty four years, although I have sold thirty five year old trees for "AA" when market was right. The outer four inchs of rings are the most important. Center rings can be wider if outer rings are allright.
Hugh

Hugh Darty

Back in my paulownia cutting and buying days, I would hire a plane or helicopter to fly me around in the spring to locate trees when they were blooming. They bloom out before most trees leaf out so the purplish blooms were easy to locate.

Ron, what is the buyers name you mentioned in your post? I knew most of the paulownia buyers in the past, may be an old friend. I had another friend in Virginia who you may know, also in the sawmill buisness, Mitch Carr. He was the first to sell Paulownia to the Japs. His companys name was Augusta Lumber.
Hugh

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ron Wenrich

Don, We have scattered paulownia in the woods, very rare.  But, there are some used in landscaping.  One logger has planted a small plantation of paulownia.  It'll be interesting to see how things go.  

64 years for logs would yield a 16" log at 4 rings/inch.  That is too long for most people to speculate on a market that may evaporate before maturity.  If the Japanese don't buy, then there is a very limited market.  Now chestnut is a different story.

Hugh, I don't recall their name, but I don't think it is Augusta.  There is a German concern there that pays some pretty good prices for good veneer.  

There was also a guy in Rising Sun, MD.  He had a log yard in PA, close to the MD line.  I drove past and saw paulownia that had a bee's nest in it.  They were buying everything.  Markets have changed since then.  I believe his name was Greer.

We had some last year.  I can't tell you where they went, but they were sold.  I'll have to check.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Hugh Darty

I screwed up on the 64 years necessary for the best grade. It should be 32 years since you count rings on the outside of the heart, thus counting only eight inchs of wood on each side.
Hugh

L. Wakefield

   So a lot of people are reporting this as a naturalized tree- I don't know where everyone lives. Do we now have a sense of its northern extent? Jeff, I thought you were in Michigan. I am wondering if it grows in WV. I am sure from the pix on that German website that I have not seen it before. It sounds like very good bee fodder. A useful tree to have around. If it's good wood, the market may not be here for the big bucks NOW, but good is good. Plant em. People will figure it out.

                 LW
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Jeff

I do live In Michigan! Northern lower. Look at your map. Hold up your right hand, palm facing you, I live at the base of your middle finger, right next to the edge of your ring finger.

L. check out the links I listed in the first post of this thread.

http://www.pauloniatrees.org

http://www.paulownia.com
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

L. Wakefield

Yes, I already checked them out. Hey, did you know there was a stuck flag on the board? I can't remember which heading. One of the early ones, logging or education. It's been stuck for a few days. BTW, this is such an excellent website. You all just keep making it better.:)  LW
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Jeff

I don't have a stuck flag, Are you using your back button on your browser? That will make the flags appear to be stuck. Let me know where it is if you see it again.

Thanks L. It's turning into what it is with the help of all of you. Now if I could get somebody with some money to notice and help me pay for my band width...
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Don P

LW,
 Don't know where you are in WV but we have seen them on I-77 near the Kanawha riverside just a few scattered.

Ron Wenrich

I have seen a few in woodlots in SE Pa.  Naturalization would be from planted stock, which is primarily ornamental.  These were all pretty small.

Your best chance of seeing them would then be on suburban and possibly rural woodlots.  When you get into areas that have substantial forested areas, the chances would be less, since you're farther removed from a seed source.

I imagine there shouldn't be too much of a problem along the Atlantic seaboard.  As you increase in elevation, your chances are reduced.  Another factor may be soil conditions.  Our soil is pretty good in this area, and in SE Pa, it gets even better.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Hugh Darty

The place to find them is in areas where the soil has been disturbed in the past. Old surface mines, highway fills, and clayroots are prime place. One tree has a million seeds which are carried near and far by the wind, but they have to settle in just the right place to survive. Insects and nematoads love them, so an area with sterile soil conditions (burned brush piles from site prep are perfect) are the most likely places to find them. We see a lot of them in old barn drips also.
Hugh

Hugh Darty

If anyone finds any of these trees, especially a large one, let me know. I still have contacts in Japan who might be interested.
Hugh

L. Wakefield

Thanks, Don, for the info about paulownia by the Kanawha. I have my (fallow) farm in southern Ritchie county- not too far from the Little Kanawha, but closer to the Hughes river. It certainly has TREES- and my (non) management technique at present could easily include planting interesting species. This sounds like a worthwhile one.

BTW, as I approach 50 (born 9/5/51), I realize that some of what I start I will not see come to completion. So- why not plant trees? It's the same with kids- not likely you'll see the end of THAT story. My kids are grown, my animals as multiplying, but my trees are just getting started..
                        
                 LW
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Thank You Sponsors!