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Compaction and tree survival

Started by livemusic, February 13, 2017, 08:29:31 AM

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livemusic

I have been cutting competing saplings and small trees around my dogwoods on 40 acres so that they are more apt to survive and prosper. We had a drought from hell here about three years ago and I suspect that many dogwoods died (and so did oaks and cedars) from that and some survivors are looking poor, still, like they won't make it. I don't have a feel for the odds of a tree surviving once some of its bark falls off.

Beyond cutting the competition and opening up some light, what about compaction? I am building a trail / access road generally around the perimeter and it often goes close to dogwoods. Does anyone know anything about compaction and how it affects trees? I see this mentioned as a concern. If you know of anything specific about dogwoods, let me know that, too. I am concerned about all of the trees and compaction, not just dogwoods, but those are the most important due to their beauty. I don't know how many dogwoods I have on this 40 acres, but I figure it's over 200. I have flagged all that I see but have not been counting them, wish I had. Might do that.
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Bill

pineywoods

Dogwoods are an understory tree, they actually need some shade. Roots are very shallow, hence susceptible to drought and compaction..Dead dogwood makes fine turning blanks..
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livemusic

Quote from: pineywoods on February 13, 2017, 09:34:49 AM
Dogwoods are an understory tree, they actually need some shade. Roots are very shallow, hence susceptible to drought and compaction..Dead dogwood makes fine turning blanks..

How dead? What about a dead one that has no bark, been dead a good long while, but the wood is very hard and not rotten? Any use for that? I have GPS several of those.
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Bill

ppine

Compaction has been studied a lot. It is a serious problem in clay soils especially when they are wet. Compaction reduces the pore spaces that allow the movement of oxygen and other gases in the root zone. 

Try to avoid running vehicles when the soil is wet. Track vehicles do less damage than wheeled ones. Use the smaller yarding equipment in wet conditions if you can. Horse logging is one way to avoid compaction all together.  The effects on skid trails last at least 25-50 years or more.
Forester

Magicman

Removing trees to allow sunlight is the wrong thing to do.  Soil with enough clay in it to compact is poor soil for Dogwood.  They need loose, mulchy soil and plenty of shade.
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livemusic

Quote from: ppine on February 13, 2017, 11:54:27 AM
Compaction has been studied a lot. It is a serious problem in clay soils especially when they are wet. Compaction reduces the pore spaces that allow the movement of oxygen and other gases in the root zone. 

Try to avoid running vehicles when the soil is wet. Track vehicles do less damage than wheeled ones. Use the smaller yarding equipment in wet conditions if you can. Horse logging is one way to avoid compaction all together.  The effects on skid trails last at least 25-50 years or more.

Do you have any idea how far from a compacted road the damage occurs?
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Bill

livemusic

Quote from: Magicman on February 13, 2017, 12:59:45 PM
Removing trees to allow sunlight is the wrong thing to do.  Soil with enough clay in it to compact is poor soil for Dogwood.  They need loose, mulchy soil and plenty of shade.

This tract of land has an amazing amount of dogwoods. I pondered on that and suspected that the soil type has something to do with it. An aquifer sand formation happens to outcrop in this area. Rather than red clay and iron ore type soil, which is common in these parts, it's sandy or loamy. So, I guess that could be it.

The entire land parcel has a canopy of large trees, mostly hardwoods. I haven't removed any large trees, only small ones less than 4" diameter growing within about ten feet of a dogwood. Plus vines. Do you think that is ok? These small trees are not blocking sunlight but are demanding nutrients.
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Bill

Magicman

If there is an area where Dogwoods are growing and thriving, anything that you do has the potential to compromise their environment.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

DMcCoy

An associate bought my wife's Grandmothers cactus collection.  We went to see it in his greenhouse where he had them all in a 6" deep bed of almost straight peat moss.  I could not believe my eyes.  I made some protesting noises and he calmly clued me in after a bout of laughter.  Cactus LOVE peat moss and deep rich soils.  The reason they are out in deserts is that is the only place where they can successfully compete.

The reason I bring this up is the 3 dogwood trees (Cornus Nuttallii) I have are in open full sun locations in voids of replanted Douglas fir.  All natural seedlings.  Dogwoods are shade tolerant but that is not mutually exclusive.  My 3 tress are thriving! Once the firs are bigger the dogwoods will indeed be in shade and in a mature forest will be an under story tree. 
Opening up an area with trees used to shade can lead to sun scald(bark loss).  I see massive amounts of damage to alder which grows fine in full sun, but changing their bark exposure is the problem, the exposure of once shaded bark.
Your drought could be the equivalent of logging exposure, your shredding bark a sign of sun scald( sunburn) 

With your soil compaction question my 2 cents are this.  Given time the trees will grow roots into non compacted soils and avoid those that are compacted.  The trees near your roads will have less 'good' soil than the trees away from your roads.  I don't know how you would manage a timber area without roads so I don't know what else to add.


livemusic

Quote from: DMcCoy on February 14, 2017, 09:06:25 AM...3 dogwood trees (Cornus Nuttallii) I have are in open full sun locations in voids of replanted Douglas fir.  All natural seedlings.  Dogwoods are shade tolerant but that is not mutually exclusive.  My 3 tress are thriving!...

I was going to make a comment kind of like this but you beat me to it. I have done quite a bit of reading about dogwoods lately, and I have seen chatter about them doing fine in full sun, which is not what I thought they liked. I thought they liked partial sun.

I have noted that I was walking my tract, and came upon an area where most of the underbrush disappeared. Big trees, yet it seemed to be more light. Dogwoods were really thick in that spot.
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Bill

bluthum

If the entire stand is even aged mostly you might want to consider how old the dogwoods are. They don't live a long time, seems most around here check out at around 50-70 years. 

I had a similar forest behind my house brimming with big dogwood and now they are rare due to natural attrition it seems.  Makes nice firewood as well as novelty stuff like the aforementioned turning stock.

ppine

The effects of compaction are pronounced and long lived, but localized in nature.  Skid trails and roads can show impacts for 50 years, but 5 feet away from the edge of the road there will be no noticeable effect at all.
Forester

nativewolf

Quote from: bluthum on February 16, 2017, 05:51:10 PM
If the entire stand is even aged mostly you might want to consider how old the dogwoods are. They don't live a long time, seems most around here check out at around 50-70 years. 

I had a similar forest behind my house brimming with big dogwood and now they are rare due to natural attrition it seems.  Makes nice firewood as well as novelty stuff like the aforementioned turning stock.
Well the dogwood blight actually really whacked most of the shade growing dogwoods that are natives.  Best survival in the east are in full sun.  Sad sad day when you can't walk your kids in the woods to see wild dogwoods.
Liking Walnut

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