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Fair day pay for a buddy with a skidder

Started by Mountaynman, January 15, 2017, 06:01:02 PM

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Mountaynman

Just tryin to see what other people think what would be fair day pay for a gd friend with a cable skidder pulling off of one of my cutters to a hot landing short pull 200 yds tops buck and push up got two cutters one dozer over an hr a turn with the buggy loadin out of a bunch pile I can run longer hrs and sat n sun to catch up we have worked together before not this way though it wd be impossible to do by the mbf or cord on this job
Semi Retired too old and fat to wade thru waist deep snow hand choppin anymore

xalexjx

do it by production, thats how i would do it with my grapple if i was subbing, only skidding that far out of pre-bunched piles would be able to put a tractor trailer load on the land every two hours pretty easily.
Logging and Processed Firewood

Mountaynman

hes gonna pull cable with the cutter helpin pullin to the same pile as my dozer for now kind of hard to sort it all out bub have always paid everyone on production hard to do on this job haven't had this many guys on the ground in a while got one kid just runnin around behind us cutting culls beech whips and breakin tops down
Semi Retired too old and fat to wade thru waist deep snow hand choppin anymore

coxy

when I pull rocks for trout habitat I get a grand a 8h day  with my 518

killamplanes

jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

AlexHart

I'm no pricing expert but 100 dollars an hour for a cable 440 seems borderline outrageous to me.   I often don't get that for a tri-axle log truck that costs many multiples of that to buy and maintain.   Plus needs like... insurance, permits, fuel, registrations etc.   I don't mean to be argumentative... I simply don't understand.   Unless its all veneer oak or something I have a hard time picturing a poor little 440 pulling enough to cover that charge even if you gave it all the gross proceeds so I don't understand why anyone would voluntarily hire at that price.    Heck... they are so cheap in theory you could buy one yourself and fully pay it back in a month if that's really what they were worth. 

As previously mentioned I'm no expert but I would think somewhere in the vicinity of 500 a day for the skidder/operator for the day.

Sounds like you've really got a big job going at any rate.   Good luck with it.     

barbender

I doubt you'd ever get more than $50-60 an hour for an old cable skidder around here. Hardly anyone pulls cable here anymore, anyways. I think when cable was king most pay was production based in this area.
Too many irons in the fire

coxy

Quote from: AlexHart on January 17, 2017, 09:57:52 AM
I'm no pricing expert but 100 dollars an hour for a cable 440 seems borderline outrageous to me.   I often don't get that for a tri-axle log truck that costs many multiples of that to buy and maintain.   Plus needs like... insurance, permits, fuel, registrations etc.   I don't mean to be argumentative... I simply don't understand.   Unless its all veneer oak or something I have a hard time picturing a poor little 440 pulling enough to cover that charge even if you gave it all the gross proceeds so I don't understand why anyone would voluntarily hire at that price.    Heck... they are so cheap in theory you could buy one yourself and fully pay it back in a month if that's really what they were worth. 

As previously mentioned I'm no expert but I would think somewhere in the vicinity of 500 a day for the skidder/operator for the day.

Sounds like you've really got a big job going at any rate.   Good luck with it.   
ill go with what your saying  but then how is a little jd 35d track hoe worth 125 an hour   like I said I get a grand a day   popped a u joint last week took out the short piece of drive line off the tranny 16in long 6 bolts on one end and the other is the strap type cost me 1100  it would take week to make a payback at 50an hour  ;D  the guys around here are getting over a 100 an hour with picker truck 9miles from the mill 400 a load  ??? ??? I know what your saying I have a truck and only do my own fire wood the mill picks up my logs

killamplanes

My grapple truck, and pup same $. I leased it for a week for 80 bucks hour and I paid fuel. I honestly probly lost more than I got. It packed 250k ft 2miles. About everything got broken. I wondered why guy jumped at 80 hour. Of course next time I go with truck. But not enough hours in a day.  I can't imagine trying to make a decent living around here for 60 an hour running a skidder that is a piece of equipment you throw hundreds at a week with no real break downs. And the occasionally winch rebuild, clutch, engine work. O ya tires. And as a skidder operator I carry 2 661 worth 2500$ due to the fact trees aren't bucked correctly or hung up and need to drop before topped. I can tell you here you will work a week and be of for 2. The weather is never good for logging for long. And unfortunately I eat everyday, my insurance is paid yearly 1 mill policy unbrella log and lumbering. Sorry for the rant but i'm still not rich. And booked atleast a year out.
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

Mountaynman

I can hardly get 125 an hr round here for the buggy we got all that insurance here to bub including workers comp large lot with heavily marked lots of low grade it will pan out as long as the loads come off the mountain every day to pay someone a grand a day would not work out. don't really think they would add another load on there own just helping to keep job flowing sometimes on this lot the cutters are dropping 10 culls and leaves for every tree we r pullin small area not running all over just eatin daylight can run buggy at night if need be and after this week might have to 40 and pouring rain here now nuts weather
Semi Retired too old and fat to wade thru waist deep snow hand choppin anymore

killamplanes

Well we're all different. Here we are able to work in such short spurts. If I were able to average 4 days a week year around I could sharpen the pencil alot more. Including what I pay for timber. And I don't pull any firewood, it's all left in the timber. There's absolutely  no market for it. Very few burn wood. Me included. And I got firewood all over. I literally have gotten 5 semi loads out in the month of January, it's mud a foot deep off the highway and will be for atleast another week. It's been a real nightmare. Welcome to my world...
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

OH logger

killiam planes what part of Illinois u from?? just askin cause when you are talkin about how you guys do things it sure sounds like the way we do it here in northwest ohio. same type of equipment, weather, mentality etc
john

killamplanes

Between st.louis and springfield illinois. With alot of deep black dirt that won't dry out  8)
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

Spartan

The rate probably depends on the product.
Let me give you an example.
Scaled logs to the stud mill (thats where we send our white-wood and small fir) around here will fetch 365 mbf, so in average wood you might gross 1300 - 1400 on 23 ton haul with a self loader
Some random length mills will pay more for specialty wood but lets use the bove for an example

400 goes to trucking
400+ to stumpage
you have a buncher (if you own it) just expenses
processor expenses
skidding expenses

lets just say its production based.  On a smaller production job.
On a good day a small to medium line machine (older) will pull 3 of those loads a day if no breakdowns average will be 2 truck loads a day with all things considered (weather, breakdowns, snow, etc....)

you are left with 500 to 600 a load after the first 2 expenses which will never change.
so on average out of about 1000 left over in a day for the contract logger, you have to pull processing expenses out of that, lets say $7.5 a ton
and falling expenses at say $7.5
thats about 300 - 350 a machine.
That leaves you with about 300-350 to pay your skidder operator and no profit unless you own all the other machines and can budget it better.
Out here if you said $100 an hour for an older line skidder they would laugh you off the mountain.

I am a contract cutter and skidder with my own equipment and I get paid by the ton for both.  Thats the only fair wage for our market because we put out multiple products from firewood to saw logs to rails.  Longer pulls the rate goes up.

Just a west-side small operation perspective if it helps.

killamplanes

I agree with spartan on the gross. But I believe I have much bigger logs. At 2 loads a day with a feller bunches doesn't sound to good unless tress are smaller. Which would be to me less than 20in bhI on average by myself hand cut skid buck up a load minumum a day. Excluding hauling to a mill. I haul in wet weather only, may pack to road but actually hauling when I can't log.  And different timber here if I got a 1300$ for a semi load it would be left in timber. My cost is set by me that it's not worth it. I have some blocking as by product but don't chase it. Call me spoiled but I have alot in equipment and not much time with the conditions (weather) to do it in.  So I view my cost as high. I don't have the long season or the quantitys to spread my cost over. This is why very few want to work for loggers here, they work like dogs for week or 2 and of couple weeks. It's to feast or famine. Unless like me with other businesses incling a mill.
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

Spartan

You're right that is smaller wood.
The bigger stuff does add up faster and a guy can definitely do better than 3 loads with cable on that behind a buncher if he pushes it.
Depends on the skid.  I've done 1/4 mile uphill all the way, that sucks for production.

Our prices for wood are not great here.
As far as I know, I am the only one around who contracts a skidder on small operations.  Most everyone is a gypo and does everything themselves. 
Probably because the margin for profit is too small to pay someone like me to do what I do.
Dunno about the big boys who put 20+ loads a day out, I've met 1 and has all his own equipment and just hire employees.
my guess is others do the same.  but not many left out here.

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