STIHL MS 461 or 661 CM?

[Dr. Cornwallis]

So I've been bitten by the bug, and it didn't take long to figure out what I already knew, I would need more than one saw. I'm looking for a big saw to compliment my 261 CM and I'm wondering if I want the 461 or the 661 CM. Primary use would primarily be for felling and bucking large laurel and live oaks on my ranch. My gut tells me since I already have a 50cc saw to go big and get the 661.

[ButchC]

I have both, actually a 660 and a 461 and the 461 came about because the 660 is just plain one heck of pile of saw to fell with, too much saw actually for this 60 year old body. Don't get me wrong tbe 660 is a nice saw, I love to put a 25" bar on it and buck big stuff but the 461 took all of 10 seconds in the wood to become my favorite felling saw. Guess it depends on how big and brawny you are? A 461 is a big leap up from a 261, matter of fact it is a leap up from my 036.

[DelawhereJoe]

Do you ever plan to get a chainsaw mill and whats the largest tree on your land that you could cut. The 461 will run a 32" bar, Stihl lists the 661 at the same 32" bar but it will run a longer bar then that.

[Dr. Cornwallis]

I have both, actually a 660 and a 461 and the 461 came about because the 660 is just plain one heck of pile of saw to fell with, too much saw actually for this 60 year old body. Don't get me wrong tbe 660 is a nice saw, I love to put a 25" bar on it and buck big stuff but the 461 took all of 10 seconds in the wood to become my favorite felling saw. Guess it depends on how big and brawny you are? A 461 is a big leap up from a 261, matter of fact it is a leap up from my 036.

I guess since you asked I'll brag about my self a little... I'm 6'1", an athletic 225, I spend 4-6 days in the gym and I follow a traditional strength and conditioning routine. I eat red meat and potatoes, I don't eat kale, I don't wear skinny jeans. That being said, I don't want to buy too much saw. I want to be able to run a 32" bar in  hardwood without feeling like I should have brought more saw to the party. Oaks that measure 30"-36" at the base are not uncommon on the property. It would likely be run most of the time with a 32" bar but I would also like the option to run a smaller bar, like a 25". I'm not into beating my self into the ground for fun but if the 661 will cut substantially better with a long bar than the 461 then I'd think the weight penalty may be worth it.

Do you ever plan to get a chainsaw mill and whats the largest tree on your land that you could cut. The 461 will run a 32" bar, Stihl lists the 661 at the same 32" bar but it will run a longer bar then that.

I have no plans for a chainsaw mill, however, I do plan on getting more heavily into the tree trimming and removal side of my lawn care business.

[ButchC]

The 461 is no slouch with a 28" bar but is never going to keep up with a 661 with any bar in any wood but then again a 661 isnt going to keep up with an 880 with same bar in same wood. I still dont think you need a 661 but understand the addiction as I am afflicted myself. If you can throw a 661 around go for it 8)

[teakwood]

i don't know the 461 but i am sure its a nice saw, i have a 066 and its a beast, i'm sure the 661 has even more power. they are very good saws. the 600er saws are heavy for a 8h day of use, but if you will put a 32" bar on it i would go with the bigger saw.

I had a 088 , you have to be one heck of a man, more like a bear, to work a full day with it!!! just to drop start it you have to get a good stand :D :D

[khntr85]

If you are wanting to run a 32" bar a lot, I would say the 661....I have a 461 and with a 25-28" bar its unstoppable....I also only cut hardwood...

[WoodBurner19]

I also have a 461 with a 20" b/c.  It's a very very strong saw! I use it mostly for bucking up firewood that my logger delivers to me. I also drop some hard wood trees on my property when I need too. See if you could test the saws within your area. You would be more than welcome to run mine if your in NJ   Good Luck & let us know what you get.

[Ikeholt]

661 for sure Doc.  No cure yet for CAD.  Keep an eye out for an 880.

[Jesper Jepsen]

Owning a 661 I can say it is a beast to handle and demands big trees or else its way to heavy. I run a 362 up to 20" and the 661 with a 25" and for the big stuff a 36" bar and it has no problem running a well sharpened 36" chain full depth in oak. The 661 is heavy but I sure love it but it's not a saw for small logs <20-25" it is simply to much power. I tried a 16" bar on it just for fun.. it's actual rather scary to see that cutting speed. The 661 will run a 42" bar if needed.

I would go with the 661 over the 461 it's a never design and is a one nice machine that just longer for working day in and day out wearing you out. ohh and one thing I really love is the easy access to air filter.. Stihl should make that standard on all their saws.

Jesper

[khntr85]

Well which saw are you leaning towards getting....I would lean towards the 461
If ou only need a 28" bar in hardwood...

[Dr. Cornwallis]

Well which saw are you leaning towards getting....I would lean towards the 461
If ou only need a 28" bar in hardwood...

Well, I'm actually a little torn still. I kind of feel  like the 661 is probably a little more saw than I need but I really don't want the 461 to end up being a little less saw than I need. Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like because I already have a 50cc saw (261 CM) I would probably be better served with a 661 for felling and bucking larger trees. I know that ounces = pounds and pounds = pain but I think that for a 1.7 lb weight penalty it may be worth it as I like the extra grunt and I also like that the 661 is an M-Tronic saw and a newer design. If the 461 was M-Tronic that would definitely sway my opinion a little more. Aside from weight, the other thing that makes me wonder if a 661 is too much saw is that while I plan to use a 32" bar somewhat frequently, the reality is that the saw will live with a 25" on it most of the time. We have plenty of really large oaks on the property that would require a long bar but we also have way more smaller oaks and pine trees, thus, statistically I'm more likely to be using it to fell smaller ish trees. That being said, I run a 16in bar on my 261 so I don't really have any intentions of ever running either a 461 or 661 with less than a 25in bar.

[DelawhereJoe]

Get the 461 you will not be disappointed in it running a 25" bar also get your 32" and run full skip chain. You may want to get one of the lite bars for it as it will be nose heavy with the longer bar.

[teakwood]

If you cut smaller trees most of the time get the 461, i am sure she can be used with a 32" bar occasionally and cut some bigger trees also, it's just a little slower.  the 661 weight will kill you if you work on smaller mid sized trees the whole day, for that you just don't need such a big saw. For falling and bucking you're fine with the 461.
i use my 066 for splitting big logs in half for the sawmill, then you really need the big saws hps. or for chainsawmilling, the bigger the better, but then most of the time the log supports the weight of the saw and mill.

[YellowHammer]

I had a 044 series, then 660 and finally own one of the newer 661 models.  All used the .375 chain.   All of the saw were OK but I buck a lot of 28 to 36 inch hardwood logs, of course because we have a sawmill business like lots of folks.  I didn't like the 660, but really like the 661.  I have a 32 inch bar, but use the 28 most because it has better balance.  I wouldn't go back to the smaller saw. 

[Dr. Cornwallis]

Thanks everyone for all the insight. I'm going to order a 661 CM from my dealer with the 28" Lite Bar.

Here is why I'm going with the 661 461:

1. Better AV than the 461
2. Stainless Muffler
3. CM
4. More of dat ass


Some very smart people have pointed out here that the 461 is likely plenty of saw, and I believe it is. For the small weight penalty, however, I'm going to try the 661 as we really do have some massive oak trees here and I think that most of the time bucking and felling, the weight of the saw will be supported by the tree. For limbing and felling smaller trees I will use my 261. If the 661 proves to be too much saw, I'll wait and pick up the next generation of Stihl professional 70CC saw. I'll report back with saw porn when I get it.

[HolmenTree]

Also run a 18"-20" b/c on that 661 when you don't need the 28". You'll thank me ;D

[khntr85]

I am sure you will love the 661....

I will say I have heard people talk about the AV on the 461...I got one a year ago, and I haven't noticed the av at issue at all....I will say this I had a 362 with spring AV, after I got the ms461 I sold the 362....I actually prefers the 461 AV....

  I tell you I have ran a hand blowers slot at home and work....if people want to know what "numb" fingers feelnlike run a blower for 4 or more hours a day, not fun!!!

[Dr. Cornwallis]

I am sure you will love the 661....

I will say I have heard people talk about the AV on the 461...I got one a year ago, and I haven't noticed the av at issue at all....I will say this I had a 362 with spring AV, after I got the ms461 I sold the 362....I actually prefers the 461 AV....

  I tell you I have ran a hand blowers slot at home and work....if people want to know what "numb" fingers feelnlike run a blower for 4 or more hours a day, not fun!!!

I run a backpack blower now with my lawn business but I used to run a hand lower when I started out as a kid. I think it was a Stihl BR85 or something and while a great blower (my dad still has it) that thing would make your hand go numb after a few hours.

I'm glad to hear that the 661 is likely a good choice. Ill get a couple different length B/C for it. I'm thinking a 20", 28" lite and 36" Lite for starters. If I find a need for something larger I'll cross that bridge when I get there. With a 261 CM w/ 16" b/c and the above 661 combination I feel pretty ready to tackle whatever we have at the ranch as well as make some money this year trimming/felling some trees. Now I just need a bigger truck. I had no intention of ever getting into the tree business when I bought my '16 Tacoma and 5x8 trailer. Right now I'm wishing I had a 3500 and dump trailer.

I may also look into getting a Wood Mizer LT 10 and start doing some light lumber work. Oak boards go for something crazy like $25 for a 1x4x10 at Home Depot. I think I could make a decent amount of money off selling oak boards from trees I fell around here as I don't know of anyone who does it.

[khntr85]

Yep you have a great combination there!!!

  How do you like your ms261cm....I came close to getting one awhile back, but didn't....let me know how the 661 runs I bet it is a beast!!!

[Dr. Cornwallis]

Yep you have a great combination there!!!

  How do you like your ms261cm....I came close to getting one awhile back, but didn't....let me know how the 661 runs I bet it is a beast!!!

I really like the 261, it's extremely strong for it's size. With only .75 less hp than the 362 and close to two lbs less in weight I think it's a great saw. Its a great general purpose saw and I think it will really compliment the 661 well for limbing/processing and also for felling smaller trees.

[khntr85]

Yep you have a great combination there!!!

  How do you like your ms261cm....I came close to getting one awhile back, but didn't....let me know how the 661 runs I bet it is a beast!!!

I really like the 261, it's extremely strong for it's size. With only .75 less hp than the 362 and close to two lbs less in weight I think it's a great saw. Its a great general purpose saw and I think it will really compliment the 661 well for limbing/processing and also for felling smaller trees.

Awesome!!!!

Is you 261 mtronic....I darn near pulled the trigger and got a 261...I just truly didn't need it....still may who knows...I rebuild and sell saws, so I play with the profit money, even thought it's not that much lol...

  Hope all goes well , I want to run a 661, like right now !!

[Dr. Cornwallis]

Yep you have a great combination there!!!

  How do you like your ms261cm....I came close to getting one awhile back, but didn't....let me know how the 661 runs I bet it is a beast!!!

I really like the 261, it's extremely strong for it's size. With only .75 less hp than the 362 and close to two lbs less in weight I think it's a great saw. Its a great general purpose saw and I think it will really compliment the 661 well for limbing/processing and also for felling smaller trees.

Awesome!!!!

Is you 261 mtronic....I darn near pulled the trigger and got a 261...I just truly didn't need it....still may who knows...I rebuild and sell saws, so I play with the profit money, even thought it's not that much lol...

  Hope all goes well , I want to run a 661, like right now !!

It is M-Tronic. It's the first M-Tronic saw I've ever had. I almost ordered the non M-Tronic version because I'm usually pretty old school but I'm actually willing to give M-Tronic a fair shot and think it's a pretty great idea. Computers are extremely reliable in cars and have done wonders for them so, I don't see why they won't do the same with chainsaws and other hand held equipment. Maybe I'm wrong but that little 261 rips.

[khntr85]

Yep you have a great combination there!!!

  How do you like your ms261cm....I came close to getting one awhile back, but didn't....let me know how the 661 runs I bet it is a beast!!!

I really like the 261, it's extremely strong for it's size. With only .75 less hp than the 362 and close to two lbs less in weight I think it's a great saw. Its a great general purpose saw and I think it will really compliment the 661 well for limbing/processing and also for felling smaller trees.

Awesome!!!!

Is you 261 mtronic....I darn near pulled the trigger and got a 261...I just truly didn't need it....still may who knows...I rebuild and sell saws, so I play with the profit money, even thought it's not that much lol...

  Hope all goes well , I want to run a 661, like right now !!

It is M-Tronic. It's the first M-Tronic saw I've ever had. I almost ordered the non M-Tronic version because I'm usually pretty old school but I'm actually willing to give M-Tronic a fair shot and think it's a pretty great idea. Computers are extremely reliable in cars and have done wonders for them so, I don't see why they won't do the same with chainsaws and other hand held equipment. Maybe I'm wrong but that little 261 rips.

  Noni don't think you are wrong....I am also a little skeptical, of course time will tell!!!

[Awesomesince72]

Good choice on the 661. I'm a strong athletic 5'11" 200 lb guy myself and have owned. 066 since 95'. I'm 45 now and I can tell you that the 66 feels heavy after a couple hours. I picked up a couple 461's in the last couple of years in hopes that a lighter saw would be easier on me.
My thoughts are that I didn't even notice that it was a pound or two lighter than my 66 but I did notice it didn't have near the torque of the big saw. I run 32" skip chisel on both saws and the 461 is a great saw. Maybe with a light weight shorter bar it would be a potent saw.
I really like my souped up 365 with a good sharp 24" chain for day to day use now.
Getting older I guess.

[s grinder]

I have a MS660

[s grinder]

I have a MS660 with a 32"bar skip chain for my stump grinding business,also have a MS261 with a 16"bar for firewood very good combo,also run a 20" bar on the 660,it's a animal with the small bar. It's like running a late 60's Hemi Cuda, balls that won't quit!

[khntr85]

Good choice on the 661. I'm a strong athletic 5'11" 200 lb guy myself and have owned. 066 since 95'. I'm 45 now and I can tell you that the 66 feels heavy after a couple hours. I picked up a couple 461's in the last couple of years in hopes that a lighter saw would be easier on me.
My thoughts are that I didn't even notice that it was a pound or two lighter than my 66 but I did notice it didn't have near the torque of the big saw. I run 32" skip chisel on both saws and the 461 is a great saw. Maybe with a light weight shorter bar it would be a potent saw.
I really like my souped up 365 with a good sharp 24" chain for day to day use now.
Getting older I guess.

Try a 25--28" inch barnon the 461....I use a 25" mostly on mine, but I am always cutting hard wood....I love the 461, but I don't even think the standard oiler would enough to oil a 32"...

[HolmenTree]

Also run a 18"-20" b/c on that 661 when you don't need the 28". You'll thank me ;D

I just happened to see blsnelling's comment on Dr Cornwallis's 661 thread over on the other forum.
He says a 661 is way too heavy on a 20" b/c  :D

Another good example why he's better at wrenching then he is as an operator  ;D

[sandsawmill14]

a 261  is all you need for a 20" bar  : but my 441 with the 20" on it is alot more fun ;D i can only imagine a 661 with a 20" bar on it    but really hope no one has tried it on a 880 because that would just be wrong  :-\ sorta like pulling your lawnmower trailer with a semi :D :D :D

[HolmenTree]

a 261  is all you need for a 20" bar  : but my 441 with the 20" on it is alot more fun ;D i can only imagine a 661 with a 20" bar on it    but really hope no one has tried it on a 880 because that would just be wrong  :-\ sorta like pulling your lawnmower trailer with a semi :D :D :D

sandsawmil14, actually the 880 is the 090AV's little brother and the 090 is rated from the factory for a 21 inch bar.
Also look at my 066 owner manual's spec....16 inch



  

 

[sandsawmill14]

i bet it would be fun to run for a few minutes anyway but they are to heavy for me  :D  i put my little 441 down and get the old 029 out for topping an cutting up the tops for fire wood :D :D

[HolmenTree]

For years when I was hand logging I ran a 18" on all my saws including a Jonsereds 920, Stihl 064 . That was for felling, limbing and topping spruce and pine.
You got the power and the ergonomics for that kind of work, especially in frozen hard cutting wood.
That short b/c makes that big powerhesd alot lighter by the end of each day... 5 days a week.
Plus alot easier for handling limbing topping and brushing under growth.

Here's my 090 with a 17" .404, great for ripping posts.


  

[sandsawmill14]

we had a 18" ( i think ) on one of the old 1050 homelites and a 20" on the other one  big saws didnt bother me then but i picked one of them up the other day to move it  and i sure would hate to go to the woods with one of them now  :D  i complain abut the new stuff all the time but i guess i have to admit it has helped us over all

most people want to run at least 6" more bar than they need anyway IMO i can cut 50" oak with a 25" bar with no problems other than finding a 50"oak left standing :-\ all the big timber is gone in our area other than shade trees and pasture trees :(
  run a 25" most of the time and a 28 some but it is all splitting logs for the mill i like a 20" for felling or cutting fire wood  i dont have to bend over to far and its not to many teeth to file 

[HolmenTree]

I haven't logged for a living for years but I still run a 18" on my main tree service saw.
Anything longer is just clumsy for me but I do have multiple saws up to 36" in my company saw stable.

My 12 year old daughter and I put this very short video together over a year ago.
This is the only one of two videos I have ever made. Plus it has been about 20 years since I last used this competition cold start bucking technique.
Here's my 562XP-18" with over 1500 hours on it, completely stock with only a muffler mod on it.
Out fitted with a brand new Stihl .325 23RS chain with a light touch up with a 3/16" file.
Could have went a bit quicker on the start as my daughter didn't give me alot of time :D and slow on the up cut start as I had the snagging work dogs on .
You can't beat the ergonomics of a 18" b/c.

https://youtu.be/ROLWSJWyJwQ

[sandsawmill14]

looks like it done pretty good to me     and i agree with you on the shorter bars i have 20 instead of 18 but its because its what came on the saw  ;) i do have a 18 on the 029 i think  but hand filing is another good reason to run the short bars i am good at it and fast as most but i hate it  : it makes my bad shoulder hurt >:( but i can file a 20" or less about as fast as i can change the chains so i just file  its easier to keep a file in your pocket than an extra chain  ;D and if you will keep it out of the dirt and touch it up every time you fuel up it only takes a minute ;D  and i will not run a dull saw >:( (maybe a little dull at the mill :-[ ) but not in the woods

[khntr85]

I cut a lot of tops for fitewood...as anyone knows the woods can look like someone dumped out spaghetti sticks when they are done....well I got a 461, been a year or so ago now....I got the saw with a 25" bar....that 25" bar is a perfect setup, when you have the room to run it...

  Now when I am cutting in the a extremely tight places we're there are multiple logs tangled together and the hardwood is 18-20", I like to run a 20" bar on the 461....at first I thought maybe it would be too small for the saw, but 18-20" dry oak, hickory, ash, and some walnut is hard stuf....the 20" bar shines in the tangled areas.....the bar doesn't stick threw the woodand cut into limbs/other logs....

I treat these tangled messes with the upmost respect...I cut firewood alone, and it only takes a second to get pinched/smashed in these areas!!!

[nativewolf]

Smart Khntr85, a pile of wood is an excuse to get hurt.  Safety first!

I've thought about a 461 with an 18" bar actually.  Keep a 25" on standby for the occasional big tree.  However, a 461 still seems a bit heavy to me but then I'm built like a half starved chicken.

[ButchC]

I have run a 20" on my 660 a few times and keep a 20 on my 461 unless conditions demand longer.  Loading a big power unit with a short bar is no more complicated than keeping the chains sharp and the depth gauges set so you can use the power. I run 025 on smaller saws but when running a 20 on the big saws  I run 030 and could run deeper when cutting cookies for fun but they would be pretty dangerous in the woods.  You must of course keep your 3/8x72 driver chains separated for peewee saws and big irons if your going to play the depth gauge game.  As stated earlier when using the correct techniques a person can cut one heck of a big tree down with a 20" bar, a person doesnt need a 32" bar to cut down a 32" tree ;D 

[khntr85]

Smart Khntr85, a pile of wood is an excuse to get hurt.  Safety first!

I've thought about a 461 with an 18" bar actually.  Keep a 25" on standby for the occasional big tree.  However, a 461 still seems a bit heavy to me but then I'm built like a half starved chicken.

, you got me laughing there lol....it does have a little wieght, and when you are in brush and trip hazards, the 20" bar really shines for me!!!

How long have you had your 461, and how do you like her??

[khntr85]

I have run a 20" on my 660 a few times and keep a 20 on my 461 unless conditions demand longer.  Loading a big power unit with a short bar is no more complicated than keeping the chains sharp and the depth gauges set so you can use the power. I run 025 on smaller saws but when running a 20 on the big saws  I run 030 and could run deeper when cutting cookies for fun but they would be pretty dangerous in the woods.  You must of course keep your 3/8x72 driver chains separated for peewee saws and big irons if your going to play the depth gauge game.  As stated earlier when using the correct techniques a person can cut one heck of a big tree down with a 20" bar, a person doesnt need a 32" bar to cut down a 32" tree ;D

How do you like your 461....I am sure glad I got mine, has saved me a lot of work...I know with the 20" and 25" bar my 461 cuts hardwood like butter, I love it!!!

[ButchC]

I am getting old enough that the 660 is becoming a load unless I am bucking. The 461 fast becoming a favorite. I dont know what people are cutting or what they expect when they say a 461 doesn't handle a 32" bar? I just hired a huge Maple tree taken down in the front yard that was too close to the house for comfort for me to take down. The arborist was running a 36 on his 461 and it pulled it just fine with skip chain.  Maybe some need to brush up on sharpening chains? Or expect the saw to fall through wood like race day? Maybe the arborist and  I got the best 461s ever made?   Mine will pull a full compliment 32" chain with 025 rakers just fine. I dont carry a saw to the woods or often run a saw all day but the weight hasn't been a problem withthe 461 as it is with the 660.  I use it for a lot of 20" bar work that I used to due with my 036 because it does it with so much more authority. I guess you could say I like the 461?  8) In the woods it handles more like a 036 on steroids than the downsized 660.

[happscrap]

Hello all, New here.. first post. My fav saw is my 660 with a 20 incher on it. Its a beast for oak and its the perfect saw on the ground for getting larger wood cut for the loader ( My loader can only lift 1100 lbs ( to get thru a 40inch gate) That being said, the 440 is the perfect saw when climbing for larger wood. Anything from 10 to 18inchs I use the 261.

Someone mentioned putting a 20 inch on an 880. If they made that bar.. id be all over it just to try it. I cant express enough how much I love that 660 with a 20. Its my go to saw.

Nice to meet everyone. Off to work!  8)

[Dr. Cornwallis]

 I ordered up my saws today. MS 661 CM with 20" and  25" ES Light bars and I ended up getting a 193T for my in tree saw. My dealer cut me (phrasing) a pretty sweet deal on both. I paid $1108.99 for the 661 w/ 25" ES Light bar and $288.99 for the 193T.

[Dr. Cornwallis]

Hello all, New here.. first post. My fav saw is my 660 with a 20 incher on it. Its a beast for oak and its the perfect saw on the ground for getting larger wood cut for the loader ( My loader can only lift 1100 lbs ( to get thru a 40inch gate) That being said, the 440 is the perfect saw when climbing for larger wood. Anything from 10 to 18inchs I use the 261.

Someone mentioned putting a 20 inch on an 880. If they made that bar.. id be all over it just to try it. I cant express enough how much I love that 660 with a 20. Its my go to saw.

Nice to meet everyone. Off to work!  8)

Thanks for posting man. You're close to me too, I live over in St. Petersburg. Do you feel your 660 is too big for climbing?

[happscrap]

St. pete.. man.. we are neighbors :laugh: I have climbed with the 660  ... im a bigger guy so its not that bad. 460 is my saw of choice for larger cuts in the tree. 193 isn't a bad saw, but i only use them for small dead wooding and prunes and the beginning of removals. I also only run a pole saw 12 inch bar on them and that makes it way more powerful. I have around 10 of them and to me they are a disposal saw. Of course the old 200's are better but 2 saws to one is a no brainer to me. We srt rec climb all the time in clearwater... your welcome to join man.. loads of fun.

[khntr85]

I am in st. Pete right now for vacation lol!!

[Dr. Cornwallis]

St. pete.. man.. we are neighbors :laugh: I have climbed with the 660  ... im a bigger guy so its not that bad. 460 is my saw of choice for larger cuts in the tree. 193 isn't a bad saw, but i only use them for small dead wooding and prunes and the beginning of removals. I also only run a pole saw 12 inch bar on them and that makes it way more powerful. I have around 10 of them and to me they are a disposal saw. Of course the old 200's are better but 2 saws to one is a no brainer to me. We srt rec climb all the time in clearwater... your welcome to join man.. loads of fun.

Where do you guys rec climb at in Clearwater?

[khntr85]

Did you get yourbsaw in yet???

[Dr. Cornwallis]

I've got it, I've actually had it for a couple weeks now. Initial impressions are that it's a real monster. It seems to balance well with the 28" ES Light bar. Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to put it in wood yet. I had a job lined up to remove a large oak tree and that was going to be the saws first time in wood, however, I was under bid so I haven't had the chance to usebitbyet. It's killing me too.