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What % of sales is log purchase

Started by alanh, July 20, 2017, 02:40:55 PM

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alanh

I have a couple tree guys that give me logs, I generally pick them up and they say they are happy to get rid of them. I would like to compensate them occasionally so as not to wear out my welcome.
Understanding that some logs will be too short, too twisty, too much metal, etc., I`m thinking that when I actually retail lumber from their log, (I keep track of where they came from) I`ll drop them some cash, saying, yep that (fill in the blank) came in handy..
For instance I just cut a nice red oak log for a guy, he paid me 300. for the boards, what would be fair to give the tree guy?

YellowHammer

If I were going to pay them, I'd pay the the standard rate for the log cost, as if I was buying from a logger, for the logs I actually used.  But just as with a logger, I only pay for what is usable, with suitable deductions, at fair market price, both ways.

Or pay their fuel. 

One guy delivered his week of picked, good logs to me on Thursday, and when he stopped, I heard his wife complained to him that he needed to start again because she counted on my payment for the usable logs for their "Friday night dinner at the steakhouse."  ;D

In that case, fair payment was decided by his wife, not him. ;D ;D

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Kbeitz

I know some tree guys and they tell me that they are happy if I take the logs.
They say they have no need for them and the only thing they can do is saw them
up for firewood and at the end of the day working in trees all day that's the last
thing they want to do.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

moodnacreek

Only pay for good saw logs. Encourage them cut knots close and not split the buts. I've had very poor luck with tree removal people for many years. Good luck.

Brad_bb

The thing is, tree services are not loggers.  You're likely dealing with a lot of yard trees.  They got paid for taking them down AND for hauling them away.  The value of logs is likely insignificant compared to what they make taking them down and hauling them off.  At that point the logs are more of a nuisance.  With the number that they take down, getting rid of them is a blessing. 

With that said, most of my logs come from tree services and many are yard trees.  There are no loggers in my area and no logging industry per sae. I don't get them directly from tree services though.  I am connected with a firewood guy who has relationships with tree services and the city.  Most tree services around here but trees 5ft and shorter to load them with a grapple truck.  He has one or two that will bring in logs in longer lengths.  I go to his yard and select what want (because he always has more than he can use in his firewood business).  Right now I pay him .25 for Ash, .35 for cherry and honey locust, 1.00 for walnut, .30 for elm.  Once in a while there is oak.  I determine the price, and it varies depending on the quality of the log, goes up with better quality, and with length.  I need 12' and up for typical beams.  Better price for 16'+. 

My guy gets them from all the tree services FOR FREE.  I have to pay my firewood guy because he will deliver to me and he has the relationships.  You have to be careful if you start paying one tree service, then others will expect it too.  If you want to show your appreciation, try to do something that will not be a direct payment for logs.  If they express some interest in some lumber or sawing a log, maybe do that.  Be careful with that too, people can try to take advantage of that and take your labor for granted.  I've sawn 4 logs for my firewood guy in the last two years for free(and delivered the lumber back to him) for his own wood working. 

Here's an idea, get that guy a gift card for a restaurant as a token appreciation.  Then the wife will get her Friday dinner.
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NWP

I'd second the gift card idea. I give $25 gift card to QuikTrip (an awesome convenience store in our area) to people in situations like this. They are usually very grateful that you thought of them and it really doesn't matter how much the card is for.  I also will get $50 and give to guys that work for me after we've had a long hard week or they've gone the extra mile for me on a job.
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Peter Drouin

When you get a tree guy stop in and want a deal or free lumber because he gave you free logs can get you in a pickle. Say he wants more lumber than logs he gave you. Or better grade lumber than the  logs full of nails he gave you??
I have people wanting to give me logs all the time.
I tell them, This much $$$ delivered in my yard. This way you stay even with them.
You owe no one that way.
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Ron Wenrich

I did some work in the Newark, NJ area and we had tree guys bring in "logs".  There was no charge and they took all that came.  That was a disaster, as they had no quality control.  Lots of metal, lots of short logs, and lots of junk.  When hurricane Sandy hit the area, they were swamped with logs.  The benefit to the tree guys was they avoided a tipping fee of $125/ton.  So, they've already been paid for the logs by not having to pay the tipping fee.  That fee is about $750/Mbf.

You could show your appreciation by giving something they could use every once in awhile.  Case of bar oil, saw chain, or the like.  Even a case of cold ones.  That is to show your appreciation for them letting you rummage through their log pile.  It isn't to pay for logs.  If you pay for logs, don't pay more than firewood prices. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Lumber Grader

Here in Memphis Tennessee, they charge the tree services to take their logs. Sounds like you are providing a service by taking their logs and not charging them. Perhaps you should give it time and see if you even make any profit on the logs AFTER you have figured all your expenses up and have sold the lumber from some of their logs. Profit margins can be non-existent if you are getting poor logs or the species of the log is not in much demand. Run the numbers. Just remember what you are providing to them is a service that they may be tickled pink they do not have to pay for!

paul case

To answer the question in the title, 50% or less. I like to at least double my log money for sawing, but I pay $.35 bdft in the log for most logs. Good oak grade logs are $.50 and I seldom buy walnut.

I think a little different on the logs people randomly show up with. I pay for my logs. I dont buy firewood. If someone brings me logs that are shorter than 8' they go in the firewood pile, and I dont pay for them. If someone brings in some shorter ones and wants them sawn it goes by the hour, but the  markets I have need 8' and 10' so I buy those sizes. I try help people understand If they want to sell me logs, I need those sizes and nothing else.I cant tell you the number of times I have told someone that I need 10' 6'' logs and they say''ok I will cut them 11'. 11' wont fit through my door, cut them 10' 6''. I have had a few walnut loggers try to bring me loads of that random length stuff that 1/2 of it went into the firewood pile. I guess they are to busy to use a tape measure.  ???   

Tree service guys are in the same shape until they realize that cut in the right length those yard trees can be worth something too.

There is some old thinking that having trees on your place is like having money in the bank, but I think it isnt as much money in most cases as people tend to think.

PC
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sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
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pc

Sixacresand

i generally sell pine lumber for 35 cents per bdft.  That is based on my logs or what I tip the tree service guy for.  If I had to Add another 15 or 20 cents per bdft to cover a cost of logs, which I don't know what pine is going for,  then folks will go on to the box store and get the kiln dried, planned lumber and I would understand.  Other species like logs of oak, walnut, popular, cherry, cypress, paulownia, is worth paying for.
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

alanh

Thanks guys, I get it with the no good logs, the way it works right now is they set aside ones they think are good, I pick the ones I think are good, some turn out so, some notsomuch. That why I`m saying after I actually sell something at a profit, I`ll throw them something, one guy has back lot he dumps everything in, if I pick up some logs I drop the bucket and grade the approach a few times, I like the bar oil (or beer) idea.,

bucknwfl

I will leave logs, chips and debris just about anywhere for free if I don't have to pay to get rid of it. It cost to pay by the ton or load. I will haul it a distance comparable to distance to closest dump.  I don't have time to market logs. Th work is volume based and most of the time tree location dictates how big or small pieces have to be removed in. I have people who will take every load of chips I can dump. Another guy takes every load of debris in his pasture and goats eat it.  It takes all kinds

Thanks

Buck
If it was easy everybody would be doing it

WV Sawmiller

   Only tree service logs I got I hauled and they loaded. I sold some but some was old and too wormy to use. I'd suggest pay for a tank of gas or dinner once in a while if you are getting logs you can use but remember how many you got that you barely broke even, lost money or had to cut into firewood or chips.

   I'd tell them which logs were usable/profitable and let them know if/when most are of little or no value.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Bluejay27

We kind of have different relationships depending on the tree service. There's a big one that has easily 100mbdft in logs, so we pick out what we want (lots of big oak butt logs, and some figured stuff) and get a log truck load at $0.30-35/bdft delivered. Another one always has oak and pine when we need it (often on a rush order), so we pay $0.375 for oak and $0.25 for pine (all 16ft, we need it and we're paying a logger $0.34 delivered).

But that's based on the fair yield, so if we hit a good bit of metal or rot (or it's barely worth calling that twisted thing a log), we get that log free plus some to cover the lost production. Never had any problems over scaling, it's better pay for him than firewood or chips without any extra work.

As for the small guys, a few dump them off cheap or free while others have a good eye for logs and we pay $0.20-30/bdft when they bring us good stuff. When we were first starting out, we only ever got free logs or did some sawing in trade. But now that we need the logs, we need to pay for them. It depends on what you have for competition; if they don't have anything better to do with the logs and you're set for supply, then just making it worth there while doesn't hurt you and helps them enough.
'98 Wood-Mizer LT40HDD42 Super, '08 LT40HDG28, '15 LT70HDD55-RW, '93 Clark GPX25 Forklift, '99 Ford F550

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