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Wood Processor on the Slide

Started by jmur1, August 14, 2017, 11:46:51 AM

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Ox

K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

jmur1

Easy does it

dave_dj1

Awesome, you should be proud  8)
Get yourself a stool and relax while the machine is doing the work.

Bradm

Interesting concept on the build and I think I see a few spots directly related to your blade where you can pick up some more efficiency.

First, change the tooth top geometry from the triple chip that it appears to have (it looks like this is a 72 or 80 tooth truss and component saw blade) to an ATB (alternating top) with a nail cutter grade.  You will dull up faster but should have less carbide damage overall resulting in longer term savings.

Second, increase the side clearance on the blade from the 0.022" (quite standard on a truss blade) to .045".  This will reduce rubbing and binding, from the both the log and the cut round, on the steel plate of the blade freeing up HP and maintaining RPMs.

Third, get the blade tensioned for the RPM the machine runs at.  It appeared that the blade had some wobble to it and I thought it sounded like it was "chopping the air" a bit.  The sound was hard to hear though as the background music masked the cutting/idling sounds.  Any chance you could post a video without the music?

And fourth, though not overly critical, drop the tooth count to about 60 teeth.  This will give you a slightly bigger gullet to handle more sawdust load.

jmur1

Quote from: dave_dj1 on October 02, 2017, 05:09:22 PM
Awesome, you should be proud  8)
Get yourself a stool and relax while the machine is doing the work.

I have been throwing around the idea of a chair - seems like a very good idea. smiley_idea 
Easy does it

jmur1

Quote from: Bradm on October 02, 2017, 06:03:10 PM
Interesting concept on the build and I think I see a few spots directly related to your blade where you can pick up some more efficiency.

First, change the tooth top geometry from the triple chip that it appears to have (it looks like this is a 72 or 80 tooth truss and component saw blade) to an ATB (alternating top) with a nail cutter grade.  You will dull up faster but should have less carbide damage overall resulting in longer term savings.

Second, increase the side clearance on the blade from the 0.022" (quite standard on a truss blade) to .045".  This will reduce rubbing and binding, from the both the log and the cut round, on the steel plate of the blade freeing up HP and maintaining RPMs.

Third, get the blade tensioned for the RPM the machine runs at.  It appeared that the blade had some wobble to it and I thought it sounded like it was "chopping the air" a bit.  The sound was hard to hear though as the background music masked the cutting/idling sounds.  Any chance you could post a video without the music?

And fourth, though not overly critical, drop the tooth count to about 60 teeth.  This will give you a slightly bigger gullet to handle more sawdust load.

Thanks Bradm:
I appreciate your comments - I will look more into this.  The machine does need some service in general.  The load runners are hopping abit right now on the slide and the saw drive belts need replacement.  (I took them off tonight).  I believe this blade is running pretty smooth - I will look at another non-music video for you to hear the sound.  It may be running a little slow with this engine - I need to check the RPM again (I messed around with the engine speed - there is only on or idle setting) - Ill confirm that later this week.    Thanks for your write up - definitely interested in as much improvement as possible.  I have several spare blades to try out different sets on.   The blades are XL 4000 28" Panel blades.  I believe they are 60 teeth - Ill confirm.
Easy does it

jmur1

Easy does it

Bradm

Thanks for the video without the music but I think my ears were playing tricks on me.  What I thought was a chop was more from the blade bogging down than anything else.

If you don't mind sharing, where in Ontario are you?

jmur1

Hi Bradm:

I am just north of Guelph.

The blade has 72 Teeth my mistake.  XL 4000 part #L52M68072-40.

jmur1
Easy does it

jmur1

I am now working on a sliding tray insert for the slab saw.  I will have an update shortly.



 
Easy does it

jmur1

I was finally able to get the 20 hp twin Honda mounted on the machine.  What a world of difference!  Easily twice as fast now.  It eliminates the chugging of the saw and speeds the splitter cycle significantly as well. 



 

I know that the hydraulic oil will run hot now - here comes a cooler. 

I've got some minor fit reworks to perform where the exhaust interferes with the saw belt when the control arm is raised up.

I will get some videos posted soon after that rework is complete.

jmur1
Easy does it

hedgerow

Jmur1
That motor has to make a huge difference on the saw staying up to speed. It will speed up your production. You will find it likes the gas. I run a 40Hp kohler on a firewood processor and it likes gas and added 20Hp Briggs to help the Kohler.  My hyd chain saw takes a lot of power.

moodnacreek

             That's an interesting machine and somebody put a lot of study and work into it. I have learned the hard way that to really cot wood you need iron, big thick saws, horsepower, gpm and pressure. Big iron cutting small wood is the thing for production.

jmur1

Quote from: hedgerow on February 13, 2018, 03:38:38 PM
Jmur1
That motor has to make a huge difference on the saw staying up to speed. It will speed up your production. You will find it likes the gas. I run a 40Hp kohler on a firewood processor and it likes gas and added 20Hp Briggs to help the Kohler.  My hyd chain saw takes a lot of power.

I have seen the gas ramp up quite abit from the 15 hp.  Its a tough call.  For many of the logs I cut 15 hp was all that was needed; but then when the larger logs came along the 15 hp was VERY slow to cut them. 
The 20 hp Honda is much smoother as well.  I think I'll stick with the extra power and capacity.



Easy does it

jmur1

Quote from: moodnacreek on February 13, 2018, 10:31:24 PM
             That's an interesting machine and somebody put a lot of study and work into it. I have learned the hard way that to really cot wood you need iron, big thick saws, horsepower, gpm and pressure. Big iron cutting small wood is the thing for production.

I definitely agree with that sentiment - When it comes to this type of equipment you can't build it too heavy or powerful if you want it to last!   
Easy does it

jmur1

Here are some pics of the exhaust rework.





I made some video but it was not usable.  Ill make some more on the next run.
In the meantime....
I'm going to rework some of the seasons damaged parts.  More power = more damage!
Easy does it

hedgerow

That 20 looks to be at home on the processor. Looking forward seeing a video of it running. 

jmur1

I finally was able to put together an update video.  It is linked here:

https://youtu.be/8AzemM6g3J8

Appreciate the interest and the comments!

jmur1
Easy does it

hedgerow

Looks like that Honda engine is right at home on the processor. So what pump did you end up running on the splitter? Does belt driving that pump seem to work ok? 

jmur1

Quote from: hedgerow on March 20, 2019, 10:57:57 AM
Looks like that Honda engine is right at home on the processor. So what pump did you end up running on the splitter? Does belt driving that pump seem to work ok?
Hi hedgerow:
There is only one hydraulic pump for the entire unit and it is the Haldex knock-off 28 GPM 2 stage.   I have burned one out by letting it get too hot (was also low on oil due to a trickle leak I did not notice untill too late), but the new one seems to be working good so far.
I was running a steady replacement on all belts and as mentioned last year looked at going to a double belt drive.  But the guy at my industrial supplies store convinced me to go to the heavier cog belt (by Gates) and have since had no issues.  I have run the machine through 28 firewood bush cord this year (not including slabs from my sawmill) and the belts all look good still.  I will keep an eye on them.


 

The belt drive of the pump has a separate shaft that has two bearings and one pulley up to the engine pulley.  It runs with the engine 100% of the time - The saw is on a centrifugal clutch.  The only issue I have with it is on cold days the engine struggles to idle until the oil warms up.  Seems to work pretty well otherwise.  I would replace this belt before quite often.  It now looks like it will last for a long time.
jmur1   
Easy does it

hedgerow

Over the years I have reworked some homemade splitters that were running motors that ran less than 3600 rpm and I had to use a jack shaft,pulleys and belts to get the pump up to speed it did seem the gates cog back belts did stand up a little better. Looks like the processor is dialed in and running well. I really like the idea of using the circular blade. I had to go with a chain type on mine as I cut a fair amount of large locust and hedge trees. I do have a self contained buzz saw that we cut a lot of the smaller hedge on. 

dave_dj1

Looks good! Thanks for sharing it with us and here's to many more cords!

jmur1

I had some high level testing on the processor this year.  I ran a double trailer load of mixed knotty maple though and found the rate of damage jump up drastically.  I posted this video that gives an idea of the crooked winding logs requiring constant winching- and if you wait till the end it shows the moment the lower wedge was sheared clean off.

I called it Homemade Wood Processor has a Bad Day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LleSPY7bVg&fbclid=IwAR0w1JnWTBKUB2wPkGURQpg2OBUb4FJv69TstCCgVS6a0qA31qH_7bMY5IE

jmur1
Easy does it

hedgerow

Knot filled and crooked winding logs just don't work well on the firewood processors. I too was running some bad wood threw my homemade processor last fall after grain harvest was done and wasn't watching the splitter part close enough and a knotty one went threw the six way wedge and pushed the wedge up past the stop and broke my hyd adjustable part of the wedge all up. We parked the processor and just bucked with the skid loader saw and used my regular splitter to finish the 20 cord I needed for the winter. 

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