Safest protective gear

[johndoesti]

I know that gear is no substitute to awareness, sound pratice and knowledge so I want this thread to focus on what you consider is the safest gear out there (please be specific on brand/models). I'm looking for the whole package, helmet with ear/face protection, gloves, chaps & boots (I could be convinced to get a jacket as well). Weight, the fact it'll be hellishly hot in the summer is not an issue as most work is done during fall/winter, I really want to focus on safety. Thanks

[longtime lurker]

The two I take seriously are the hard hat and boots. In either case I think that the best bet is to try a few on and get the most comfortable fitting you can. Bad boots will cripple ya and there are few things more annoying then a hard hat that wants to flop around every time you turn your head.

[celliott]

I think the labonville chaps are the thickest ply kevlar on the market, they definitely are high quality chaps. Get the full wrap ones.
Boots, steel toe leather boots are ok, they will save your toes from crush injuries and maybe a toe cut and are sturdy, but leather won't slow a chain at all. Cut resistant\protecting boots are better. The rubber chainsaw boots are good but not the most comfortable. I just got a pair of haix protector prime boots, they are steel toe, and are chainsaw cut certified with kevlar. My new favorite boots, I'm done buying leather steel toe logger style boots.

Helmet- I have a husqvarna technical forest helmet and really like it. Every manufacturer makes a quality helmet, can't really go wrong IMO.
They do make kevlar cut resistant gloves as well, I don't know though, I don't like wearing gloves in the summer. The majority of chainsaw cut injuries occur to legs

Others will chime in as well, I'm sure, that the most important piece of safety gear is under your helmet. If you're tired and fatigued, quit. If it seems dangerous, or something isn't right, don't do it. Take your time, work slowly and deliberately, and think things through. Probably the most dangerous time for someone running a saw is when they get enough experience to be confident, and they get complacent. Every now and then I'll do something and realize "wow, that was scary" or that was dumb- a kickback event because I wasn't paying attention, a loaded limb snapping back, resting the saw on my leg as it idles down, brake off (snagged my chaps once that way) just things you should notice but don't.

[Riwaka]

If you are cutting all day for many days the Protos helmet may be worth a try. Using a loud saw - ear plugs and muffs together.
Other items to consider is the quality of a first aid kit. Logging is not usually conducted outside a hospital.
Communication/ personal alerts - radios, alert systems and phones are only effective if they work.
http://logsafe.co.nz/faller-monitoring/
http://www.safe-eyes.co.nz/ (depending on what type of wood you are cutting etc)

[nativewolf]

I don't really have anything useful on my own equipment and am in the same boat.  I just wanted to add that Haix sells clearance stuff from website directly at 50% off or so.  Not promoting but if you've got really large or really small feet you may find a boot on there that fits at huge savings.  I've never worn a pair but was looking at protective gear myself.  Cutting too much to have no chaps for instance.  My boots are worn out and Redwings are just not comfortable after 4 hours on my feet.  So, I did the googling thang on Haix and that's impressive.  Another poster really liked some rubber boots but they didn't have good ankle support.  These Haix look like better boots. 

There is that company in MT that makes handmade boots, you could search the forum, one reviewer found at a yard sale and had to look up, they were probably $400 boots he got for a few bucks but he said they were the best.  Arborist are saying very good things about the Haix boots and they have demanding needs (climbing, limbing, nimble, safety). 

[John Mc]

The safest protective gear is the stuff you will actually use. It's easily possible to go so overboard that there is a temptation not to wear it at all. For example, I prefer to wear full-wrap chaps because they provide better protection around the lower leg than the "apron-style" chaps that only cover the front 180˚. However, I'm working in Vermont. I can see why someone working in the south might make a different choice: the danger from dehydration affecting reflexes and judgement may outweigh the extra protection of heavier PPE.

[John Mc]

As someone already mentioned, Labonville makes some excellent chaps. They make both full-wrap and "regular" (apron-style) chaps. Within their full wrap line, they make Competition Chaps (10 Ply), And there standard line which is 5-ply (similar to most other manufacturers). I've tried on both. While the Competition chaps certainly provide better cut protection, I couldn't stand to wear them. They were just too bulky for my taste. Maybe standing still on the landing, but I couldn't see moving around extensively in the woods in them. Husqvarna, Stihl and others also make good chaps.

Chainsaw protective pants are an alternative to chaps. Some of the newer styles (at least newer in the US, they've been in Europe for a while now) are much more comfortable than the old ones I have. I've been looking at getting some Pfanner pants or some Husqvarna Technical Hi-Vis Chainsaw Pants.

For helmets, there are a wide variety of good manufacturers and models. The main thing to look for is a 6-point suspension. This provides better protection than the 4-point suspension. A ratchet adjustment system is a nice convenience feature (particularly if you are sharing a helmet among different people and need to resize it frequently), but it's not really a safety feature.  I've used a Husqvarna Forest Pro helmet for years. I recently "upgraded" to their "Technical Forest Helmet". More of a comfort upgrade than a safety one.

I'll second the recommendation for Haix Boots. I bought a pair of their XR200 boots a couple of years go. They are some of the most comfortable work boots I've ever worn. I also own a pair of the rubber chainsaw boots. They work well when I'm in very wet situations, but just were not comfortable, so I ended up not wearing them (a friends serious chainsaw injury to his foot prompted me to find a boot I would actually wear).

As Celliot mentioned, the most important piece of safety equipment sits under your helmet. Pay attention, get appropriate training, and stay hydrated (it's scary how much even mild dehydration can affect your reflexes as well as your judgement. If you are feeling thirsty, you ARE dehydrated, and it IS affecting you adversely - it just a matter of how significantly you are being affected.)

[teakwood]

The problem here is the heat, i understand that is easy wearing PPE in cold temp but when it's 80-95 its a PITA and you have to obligate yourself. I had to quit work many times just before heat stroke.
I have the pfanner gladiator cool pants (will never buy another brand again!, John Mc: you won't regret buying a pair, expensive but worth every penny. http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=34&item=15417
and then for the head i have this setup: thanks to Holmentree's suggestions! i use it with ear plugs


 

[John Mc]

TeakWood - the Gladiator ventilation pants you linked were one of the ones I was considering (and you even linked the color I was looking at: I want something higher-visibility than the gray, but blue is a magnet for deer flies, so I avoid that color for a couple of months each summer). The problem is, I've never even seen a pair. I'd really like to try them on before I buy, but there are no dealers anywhere near me.

I have at least seen the Husqvarna Technical Hi-Viz Pant. They were on someone else at the time, but he was raving about them.

[DeerMeadowFarm]

Helmet - I have a Husqvarna Technical helmet. Fits great, light weight, good visibility and THE best mesh screen I've had on a helmet. I often find myself trying to lower it thinking it wasn't down only to find it was already down.

Chaps: I have a pair of Labonville full wrap chaps. Best ones made IMHO. However, Since I am often climbing in and out of a tractor when I'm cutting/skidding, I find the chaps (any brand) tends to hook the various levers on the tractor. That, and for comfort made me switch to....

Pants: I use Husqvarna chainsaw pants. I forget what model they are. I work for a German owned company for my real job and I am fortunate enough to have a boss that resides there who happens to have a childhood friend who owns the only Husqvarna shop in his village. My boss is more than willing to mule Husqvarna stuff to me and that's how I was able to get my technical helmet before it was offered here and it's also where I got the pants. I'm not even sure they offer that particular model here...?

Boots: For winter cutting in wet conditions (snow) I have a pair of the rubber Husqvarna chainsaw boots. They work well but a lot of people don't like rubber boots. I hunt with Lacrosse 18" tall rubber boots; have for years, so rubber boots to me are comfortable enough. I recently bought some Oregon leather chainsaw boots. Styled like a hiking boot, these have become my favorite boot to wear period. It's water "proof" but obviously not like rubber. I wear them most of the time for every job even if I'm not cutting. I need to buy another pair before they go and discontinue them (with my luck)

[John Mc]

Helmet - I have a Husqvarna Technical helmet. Fits great, light weight, good visibility and THE best mesh screen I've had on a helmet. I often find myself trying to lower it thinking it wasn't down only to find it was already down.

... My boss is more than willing to mule Husqvarna stuff to me and that's how I was able to get my technical helmet before it was offered here and it's also where I got the pants. I'm not even sure they offer that particular model here...?

It was kind of weird: The Husqvarna Technical Forest Helmet (not to be confused with their Technical Arborist Helmet) was available in the US for a short time, then disappeared for more than a year - despite remaining in the Husqvarna USA web site. They did not respond to any questions about the status, and none of the dealers with whom I checked had any clue what the story was. I ended up buying mine on eBay from the UK, and it was about $40 CHEAPER than what had been advertised in the USA, even after shipping.

Even more strange: my local dealer was still able to get a replacement ear cup replaced under warranty - only took him about a week to get the replacement.

The Technical Forest Helmet is now available from US dealers - at $130 (more then double the cost of the Forest Pro helmet). Despite the jacked up price, I'm still happy with it -- and if someone wants to mess with it, You can still get the same thing for about $85 or $90 on eBay from the UK.

[Maine372]

i can appreciate your curiosity and research but this is such a subjective topic that there is no definitive answer. the safest gear is what works for you.

at my 'day job' we wear company supplied labonville chaps. they are thick and feel that they offer the best protection from the saw chain. (actually had just the outer shell stop a chain once without reaching the Kevlar.) on the other hand they are stiff! I find them difficult to move in and the wrinkles they get around the knee when bent catch on everything.

when I work for myself I wear Husqvarna branded chaps that are thinner and more flexible. movement is much easier, my legs don't tire as quickly and I have noticeably less tangles/tripping.

which is safer? the chainsaw proof chaps that trip me up or the chainsaw resistant chaps that let me move freely?

[teakwood]

TeakWood - the Gladiator ventilation pants you linked were one of the ones I was considering (and you even linked the color I was looking at: I want something higher-visibility than the gray, but blue is a magnet for deer flies, so I avoid that color for a couple of months each summer). The problem is, I've never even seen a pair. I'd really like to try them on before I buy, but there are no dealers anywhere near me.

I have at least seen the Husqvarna Technical Hi-Viz Pant. They were on someone else at the time, but he was raving about them.

Can you order them and send them back if they don't fit. there has to be some measuring system that you can get pretty close. I had to order a special size because i am wide (not fat :D) and short, so my pants are L short.
But the pfanner pants really adapt to you figure, the whole back is stretch even the hips, knees and heinie are preformed, you can believe me when i say that they are almost as comfortable as a jogging pants!
They not that famous in America, but they concurred the market in middle europe, in Switzerland almost every professional logging company switched to pfanner, their helmet is considerd the best logging helmet out there. http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=37&item=5688

[mike_belben]

I wear a petzl arborist helmet with integrated muffs and screen.. since i started as a climber.   Ive never tried another to compare it to, works i guess. 

Logging is maybe one of the oldest jobs around where i live now and i end up talking to a lot of old loggers.  I think my opinion at this point is that the most critical safety gear is between your ears, not getting a saw in the leg or a trunk rolled onto you in the first place is probably the best insurance right?

Ive observed here lately that a lifetime of felling makes a person way (over)confident in precisely how everything is gonna go cuz it went that way 10,000 times before and this leads to complacence.  deviations in the script can then lead to injury because this confidence prevents the cutter from taking appropriate precaution that a less salty cutter may have.  I cant compete with these production guys at all in bd/ft but im never just trusting that a half inch hinge will hold up a 6 stem domino like they are either.  Id rather make less money than be laid up healing from it. YMMV.   

[thecfarm]

One thing I catch myself doing,I have less respect for a 6 inch tree than one 3 feet across.  :   I find myself doing things with a 6 inch one that I would never even think about doing with one 3 feet across. I have to think,slow down and respect them all.

[teakwood]

It was a 6 inch tree that broke my leg back in 2007! so now i respect them all!!

[johndoesti]

Thank you all for your great comments. I heard a lot of great things about the Pfanner pants but I see no actual tests on how safe they are protecting your legs. Chap tests are all over the place so we know what works and what doesn't but what about the Pfanner pants?

[John Mc]

I know they meet European safety standards, since they are widely used in commercial settings in Europe. I've not looked in to what US specs they meet.

[sweetjetskier]

My gear:

Haix XR200 boots, really like them. pair on left are newer, with brand new laces as my puppy ate the originals.  Labonville full wrap chaps.  Little warm in Summer, but a lot cheaper than ER visit.  Husqvarna helmet, face shield long gone. Really want one of the new Husqvarna technical forestry helmets.

All this gear plus other odds and ends fits in a Husqvarna duffle bag, it works well for me.

[johndoesti]

Just ordered a pair of Haix Volt. Hopefully this will turn out to be a safe boot as I didn't see many reviews online.

[chep]

Arborwear makes a set of full wrap chaps that are 2nd to none. Stretchy adjustable buckles are a hit. They move very well through the woods.
As far as chainsaw pants go. All the euro pants are made for arborist. Not loggers. I have tried them all. Tight butt hugging stretchy pants have no place in the woods. They get wrecked by brush, cable and high stepping over logs.
The only pants I have gotten a year out of are the Stein Krieger pants. They are rugged but a bit heavier and hotter then the butt hugging spandex pants that most of the hobby loggers seem to love

[teakwood]

so every professional logger in Europe is a hobby logger?? i know hundreds of full time loggers in Europe and not one of them uses chaps, they all use "euro pants"!  Pfanner has different style pants, there is a arborist pants with full stretchy fabrics all around which are for climbers and then there is the gladiator pants which i own, they have a stretchy back and a extremely durable front fabric, it's as tough as it gets. I use it since 4 years with probably 1 year of actual use on them and they look like new, and i doubt that your underbrush is as nasty as the tropical jungle, there is almost no plant without spikes or ants or some other thing that will get you :D

[John Mc]

Chep, I'd be interested in which brand and model pants you have tried and found did not hold up. I know Pfanner makes both Arborist and Logger models, and that the Arborist models are definitely designed for more mobility (and I would suspect this cuts into the durability a bit).

I've got two relatives who are full-time loggers in Sweden who would take serious issue with being called "hobby loggers" (and these are not guys who are spending their days riding around in the cab of a feller-buncher either). They swear by their pants. Neither has used chaps in many years. They also wear protective jackets. I'm not sure if the Swedish version of OSHA requires that, or if they did it by choice, but they thought we were crazy when I mentioned that I'd never seen anyone wear the jacket in my area. (They did grant that they are typically in cooler weather than much of the US sees, so that may be a factor.)

I can't imagine they'd be fans of the pants if they were only getting a years worth of life out of them. I know one of them uses Husqvarna brand for almost everything (probably influenced by the fact that one of the Husqvarna factories is not far from where they live), so I'm guessing he also uses the Husqvarna brand pants. I'm not sure what the other uses, but I know they were different. (I was not paying attention to PPE brands when I visited them a few years ago. I was more interested in what they were doing.)

[johndoesti]

Not that anybody would be interested but I changed my order to Haix Protector Prime boots instead of Volt ;D I'm already used to these kind of boots as my mountaineering boots are pretty much the same...

As for the pants, I want more than general feedback by real loggers on how great/comfy they are (wherever they are from) unless they have some incidents to share. I want to know how safe they are, how it prevented serious injuries, etc. I want to see a chainsaw drop on one of these european pants  8). They probably can't be as safe as the Labonville 10-ply chaps but there's always that compromise between "agility" provided by lighter material vs overall safety, as one other user already pointed out.

I want some badly as I find chaps cumbersome but I want to see those european pants tested first.

[nativewolf]

I'd also be interested in incident discussions, maybe some of our Scandinavian friends can post some stories.  Lots of good forestry over there in Sweden and Finland

[teakwood]

johndoesti:  All those euro pants from well known brands as pfanner, stihl, husquarna, ....they all meet european safety standards, and they are hard to get. And they have to approve in different country's,  switzerland has their own "OSHA" which is called EPA, the european union has the CE label and i think that GB has also it's own "OSHA". So you can be certain that if they approve all european standards they will also approve US safety regulations.

My pant is class 1: so 20m/second chainspeed

[John Mc]

Not that anybody would be interested but I changed my order to Haix Protector Prime boots instead of Volt ;D I'm already used to these kind of boots as my mountaineering boots are pretty much the same...

The Protector Prime are great boots. I tried both them and the XR200 boots. I ended up choosing the XR200 simply because they fit me a bit better and I preferred the slightly lower cut (I had to order the medium width, since the wide they had in stock was a little sloppy on my foot).

[Andries]

Johndoesti - why not have a look at Youtube.
The bush party that pulls a pair of pants over a Norway Pine log and takes a big (660 Stihl?) to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJS2q3HRCHQ
or...
The very brave? Czecho guy who is wearing the pants while he takes a swipe at his leg with a "Wild Thing" looking smaller saw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5VSivQe760&t=29

. . . . I want to see a chainsaw drop on one of these european pants. . . I want to see those european pants tested first.

Time to place your order!

[John Mc]

Even considering how well those pants work, that Czech guy is an idiot.

[Andries]

Completely agree.
But there's one or more, in every crowd, right?
My son is the climbing arborist, I'm ground crew.
Been thinking about pitching my chaps and order myself a pair of Gladiator pants from Pfanner.

[johndoesti]

Andries : believe me I have looked at YouTube extensively  pc_smiley.

Do you recognize the pants used in the first video test you posted?
I found this video for Pfanner as well: https://www.pfannercanada.com/blog/entry/slow-motion-pfanner-chainsaw-protection.
Still I think I saw a video of class 3 pants completely fail somewhere.

One good example (and again I'm not able to determine which brand/model it is):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvUHXOQJ5Yk

Having specs is good, but how good is it in reality?

[teakwood]

Well, hard to tell but i'm pretty sure those pants aren't pfanner, the front fabric on the pfanner is one stiff layer, when the guy in the vid moves the pants around it gets all wrinkled, like a ski pants. those look more like a cheap chainsaw pants. also why doesn't he show the brands name on the pants. if you have a pair of good chainsaw pants you really can tell the difference. 

[teakwood]

Completely agree.
But there's one or more, in every crowd, right?
My son is the climbing arborist, I'm ground crew.
Been thinking about pitching my chaps and order myself a pair of Gladiator pants from Pfanner.

Do that, you won't regret, and then if you like them you can chime in and help me spread the positive feedback. Kind a hard to make a point if i'm the only one who has tried them :D :D

[trapper]

anybody make extra short chaps?  Short and fat.  5'3"

[chep]

I've tried phanner gladiator, sips, husky standard pants, Swede pro, forester, and 1 other pair of stretchy butthuggers that failed. I have crotch failures in all these pants. The huskys i ended up duct taping the boot zippers closed. Could never get them to stay shut and hold.
Never hit a pair with a saw it's always been a blowout.
Lots of opinions on pants but only a couple from actual loggers. Again the only pair I can personally recommend are the Steins. Well built. Not stretchy spandex garbage. When i was climbing more the stretch was good, but as soon as you take those pants into tje bush they are weak...

[teakwood]

I've tried phanner gladiator, sips, husky standard pants, Swede pro, forester, and 1 other pair of stretchy butthuggers that failed. I have crotch failures in all these pants. The huskys i ended up duct taping the boot zippers closed. Could never get them to stay shut and hold.
Never hit a pair with a saw it's always been a blowout.
Lots of opinions on pants but only a couple from actual loggers. Again the only pair I can personally recommend are the Steins. Well built. Not stretchy spandex garbage. When i was climbing more the stretch was good, but as soon as you take those pants into tje bush they are weak...

And again with the insulting! so we are all just weekend hobby loggers here??  Just give your opinion so others can make up their own mind about a product, no need to make false statements. 

[chep]

I'm not insulting. Do you log for a living? Full time? 40 hrs plus a week? How many hrs a year do you spend running a chainsaw?
This guy is asking for an opinion and a review. I gave one.  I was questioned so I gave more info.
I am big on safety and think saw pants are critical to day in day out work. Chaos have there place as well. But to go out and spend well over 300$ on a pair of pants is an investment. So I am giving my 2 cents on over 2000$ worth of saw protection I have purchased in the last 9 years.
Thanks

[chep]

*chaps* not chaos. Dang autocorrect

[teakwood]

40% of my time is logging (and yes i do it for a living) 30% is an excavation business and 30% is furniture making and other stuff. so i am not a "full time logger" but if you take 20 years of working by 40% so it's around 8 years of "full time logging", so i think i have a fair share of experience in logging and PPE.

johndoesti: if you want some feedback for chainsaw pants you should search in some forums from europe, i didn't search but i am sure you can find lots of reviews in europe because every professional logger use them there, the market is big for pants in EU

[John Mc]

I've tried phanner gladiator, sips, husky standard pants, Swede pro, forester, and 1 other pair of stretchy butthuggers that failed. I have crotch failures in all these pants.

Sounds as though they just plain don't fit you.

So do you use the Steins now, or have you decided to stay with chaps?

[DeerMeadowFarm]

I don't log for a living; thank God, those guys have it rough.

My main reason of choosing the pants over the chaps came about when I bought a winch for my tractor to skid the logs out. There are three levers on the left side of my tractor seat (my normal enter/exit side since the loader joystick is on the other side) and the straps on my chaps would hook the 2wd/4wd lever 90% of the time. Most of the time it was an inconvenience. A couple of times it cause me to stumble out of the cab and at least once it caused me to take a pretty good header. Coupled with the fact that the pants are cooler in the summer and more comfortable overall, it has become my favorite PPE for my lower body. I still use the chaps for quick trimming, or if I'm doing strictly ground work (preferably in the winter) but the majority of my cutting time finds me wearing my pants.

[chep]

If I am operating forwarder i usually use chaps to get out and bump knots flush stumps and cut trees processor left.
If I am mostly chopping I wear the Stein.

My workmate is using Oregon Waipatou saw pants. And loving them. I may try them.next about 160$ through honey brothers .uk.

[DeerMeadowFarm]

My workmate is using Oregon Waipatou saw pants. And loving them. I may try them.next about 160$ through honey brothers .uk.

If their pants are as good as their Fiordland boots then they must be a winner!

[Ed_K]

 Don't care what you wear, wear something protective. I was wearing husky chaps yesterday and lost a chain cutting a top. I have three bruises on the inner part of my thigh were the chain teeth hit. If I hadn't had them on just think what the bruises would have looked like.

[nativewolf]

Bought my first pair of chaps this week, I'm just doing to much sawing to not be smarter about it.  Looking to upgrade my boots next. 

Can someone tell me more about the cut proof boots like Haix is promoting? 

[John Mc]

Can someone tell me more about the cut proof boots like Haix is promoting?

The Haix chainsaw/logger boots are the XR 200 and the Protector Prime. Both have toe and cut protection and are waterproof (Gore-Tex Liner). The Protector Prime is a little taller (9" uppers vs 7" uppers for the XR 200). The 9" uppers were a bit much for me, so I went for the XR200. I did find they run fairly true to size. I usually wear a size 9 with a C width; so I ordered the size 9 in their medium width, and it fits perfectly. These are the first safety boots I've owned that are so comfortable that I think I'm just wearing hiking boots. I'm very happy with them.

[nativewolf]

Can someone tell me more about the cut proof boots like Haix is promoting?

The Haix chainsaw/logger boots are the XR 200 and the Protector Prime. Both have toe and cut protection and are waterproof (Gore-Tex Liner). The Protector Prime is a little taller (9" uppers vs 7" uppers for the XR 200). The 9" uppers were a bit much for me, so I went for the XR200. I did find the run fairly true to size. I usually wear a size 9 with a C width; so I ordered the size 9 in their medium width, and it fits perfectly. These are the first safety boots I've owned that are so comfortable that I think I'm just wearing hiking boots. I'm very happy with them.

That's great to hear and useful on sizing.  How are they holding up? 

[John Mc]

That's great to hear and useful on sizing.  How are they holding up?

Great so far. I can't say my own pair has had heavy use, but I've heard good things from others about their longevity.

[nativewolf]

Good deal.  Wonder if anyone has run a saw into a pair?  Or an axe or machette

[John Mc]

I saw a demonstration video somewhere, but I can't remember where.

Keep in mind that none of this gear makes you "bullet-proof". Just about all PPE I've seen has the disclaimer on it that it is not designed to completely prevent injury, but used properly, it will lessen the severity.

[tawilson]

I'm such a follower.. Just ordered a pair of XR200.

[celliott]

I have the protector prime's. The folks at Haix told me the prime's run 1\2-1 size small generally. I typically wear a 12, ordered a 11.5 and it fits great. I am starting to think these are the best boots I've ever bought. Love them. Only thing I'm not sure of is the durability, but they seem solid.

[johndoesti]

I also went with the Protector Prime, they fit me pretty well. The differences with the XR200, as far as I can tell, are Vibram sole vs non-vibram, 7" vs 9" height and steel toe cap vs composite. Definitely ½ smaller. I'll post my full gear when I get it all (thanks everyone).

[John Mc]

The other difference between the Protector Prime and the XR200 boots is that the XR200 boots meet the European Class 1 (20 m/sec) cut protection standard, while the Protector Prime meets the class 2 cut protection.

In my case, anything was an upgrade in this area, since I never wore my rubber chainsaw boots, and the old hiking boots I did wear had no cut protection. The deciding factor for me was the fit. After suffering through the rubber boots and giving up on them, I wanted something that fit me well enough that I would actually use them. The protector Prime was not a bad fit, it's just that on my foot, the XR200 was better.

[sweetjetskier]

The first Haix boots I purchased were the Airpower Gold arborist boots, really liked them and bought another pair 8-9 months later. That was 5-6 years ago and now have 2 pairs of the XR200's.

I did have one small problem with sole to boot adhesion and I was taken care of without question.  Sent Haix the "damaged" boots and about a week later I received the free replacements.

Haix has been a great company in my experience.

[smoked]

This is a great topic.  I am a hobby woodworker and wood burner and between cutting firewood and running a chainsaw mill, I spend a good amount of time with scary tools on my weekends.  I can't afford to go out and buy it all at once but I am trying to add safer equipment/PPE to my toolbox so this has been a very informative topic. 

Do you guys think chaps are good for chainsaw milling where knees are normally in the dirt or should I save up for the better pants?  Thinking about mobility.

[teakwood]

For chainsaw milling i never used leg protection. the chainsaw is in the mill and there is now way you can get cut like this in the leg. maybe some knee protection!?

[Ed_K]

 Maybe look into cut resistance glove?

[Nobody]

Have to agree with Riwaka on the helmet. Protos all day long for me. Generally better protection, especially the back of your head. Also like that the mufflers tucks in inside the helmet. Sits extremely firmly compared to anything else I've tried.

As for pants/chaps I cant say more than that I love my Stihl x-fit pants. Very comfy, but expensive. Chaps are a no go in scandinavia. Anyone using them for full time / professional logging would be looked at as nothing more than a misplaced amature.

[John Mc]

Have to agree with Riwaka on the helmet. Protos all day long for me. Generally better protection, especially the back of your head. Also like that the mufflers tucks in inside the helmet. Sits extremely firmly compared to anything else I've tried.

I've never even seen one of those helmets in real life. I'm sure they are great, I just have a hard time believing they are $300 great. Are they targeted more at arborists?

As for pants/chaps I cant say more than that I love my Stihl x-fit pants. Very comfy, but expensive. Chaps are a no go in scandinavia. Anyone using them for full time / professional logging would be looked at as nothing more than a misplaced amature.

I'm curious about this. Why is it that Scandinavians so strongly prefer the pants to the chaps? I have a distant relative in Sweden who is a logger, and he would agree with you - unfortunately I didn't ask him why. Is it a style thing, or is there some belief that the pants are safer?

[Nobody]

Have to agree with Riwaka on the helmet. Protos all day long for me. Generally better protection, especially the back of your head. Also like that the mufflers tucks in inside the helmet. Sits extremely firmly compared to anything else I've tried.

I've never even seen one of those helmets in real life. I'm sure they are great, I just have a hard time believing they are $300 great. Are they targeted more at arborists?

As for pants/chaps I cant say more than that I love my Stihl x-fit pants. Very comfy, but expensive. Chaps are a no go in scandinavia. Anyone using them for full time / professional logging would be looked at as nothing more than a misplaced amature.

I'm curious about this. Why is it that Scandinavians so strongly prefer the pants to the chaps? I have a distant relative in Sweden who is a logger, and he would agree with you - unfortunately I didn't ask him why. Is it a style thing, or is there some belief that the pants are safer?

Yeah, they are unnecessary steep.. probably because, as your on to, their more adapted for climbers.
That said, when I got mine I had to order another right away for my dad who wanted the extra luxury in his old days while whacking weed.

For the chaps I dont really know, and dont think I can give an accurate answer. But I think it has a lot to do with culture. For instance you wont see plant and construction workers in everyday clothing on the job here. And jeans is everyday clothing.
Almost like dress codes, carpenters wear their nail pouch pants. Construction workers wear hi-viz from top to bottom. If you wield a chainsaw, well, then you wear proper chainsaw protective clothing.

Edit: one important detail flew right over my head. I dont think anyone produces CE approved chaps, which is required. Pretty much same as ansi just for europe.

[John Mc]

Why is it that Scandinavians so strongly prefer the pants to the chaps? I have a distant relative in Sweden who is a logger, and he would agree with you - unfortunately I didn't ask him why. Is it a style thing, or is there some belief that the pants are safer?

For the chaps I dont really know, and dont think I can give an accurate answer. But I think it has a lot to do with culture. For instance you wont see plant and construction workers in everyday clothing on the job here. And jeans is everyday clothing.
Almost like dress codes, carpenters wear their nail pouch pants. Construction workers wear hi-viz from top to bottom. If you wield a chainsaw, well, then you wear proper chainsaw protective clothing.

Edit: one important detail flew right over my head. I dont think anyone produces CE approved chaps, which is required. Pretty much same as ansi just for europe.

I can easily see why the pants are safer than the apron-style chaps. Not sure why there would be much difference between good-quality full wrap chaps and pants. (But then, I 'm just eyeballing them, and I'm no PPE engineer).

I see a number of chaps that meet ASTM F1897, ANSI Z133.1, and OSHA regulation 1910-266. I don't see many that mention CE specs, but then probably not a whole lot of people in the US are looking for that spec. I have to admit, I have not looked at the specs to see what the difference is.

[Nobody]

Why is it that Scandinavians so strongly prefer the pants to the chaps? I have a distant relative in Sweden who is a logger, and he would agree with you - unfortunately I didn't ask him why. Is it a style thing, or is there some belief that the pants are safer?

For the chaps I dont really know, and dont think I can give an accurate answer. But I think it has a lot to do with culture. For instance you wont see plant and construction workers in everyday clothing on the job here. And jeans is everyday clothing.
Almost like dress codes, carpenters wear their nail pouch pants. Construction workers wear hi-viz from top to bottom. If you wield a chainsaw, well, then you wear proper chainsaw protective clothing.

Edit: one important detail flew right over my head. I dont think anyone produces CE approved chaps, which is required. Pretty much same as ansi just for europe.

I can easily see why the pants are safer than the apron-style chaps. Not sure why there would be much difference between good-quality full wrap chaps and pants. (But then, I 'm just eyeballing them, and I'm no PPE engineer).

I see a number of chaps that meet ASTM F1897, ANSI Z133.1, and OSHA regulation 1910-266. I don't see many that mention CE specs, but then probably not a whole lot of people in the US are looking for that spec. I have to admit, I have not looked at the specs to see what the difference is.

For you guys there is no CE, you got ANSI instead. It's just formal edited by admin tho.. I cant even buy a hardhat from the US because it isnt CE approved.. I can of course, but my insurance would be obsolescent if anything where to happend..

[Nobody]

Anyway, to get back on track I'd like recommend the Pfanner Zermatt boots if your on spurs occasionally.
Didnt want two sets of boots for felling and climbing, and the Zermatts works fine. A bit slippery tho, but very good ankle support. When working in steep, slippery terrain I put on snow spikes which Pfanner supplies also.

[Ianab]

Climate might have something to do with the chaps vs pants things.

Locally most of the logging is done in the warmer weather (less rain and mud). So it's warm, and humid, making for HOT work. You would be flaked out from heat exhaustion by lunchtime if you tried working in heavy padded trousers. Shorts, boots and chaps give you protection, without being cooked alive. A t-shirt with some day-glo visibility stripes and a forestry helmet completes the "uniform".

Now if you were working in snow, I imagine the extra padding would be a bonus, not a liability.

[John Mc]

That's a good point, Ianab. However, the climate in the Scandanavian countries is not all that different from Vermont. I do see some professionals here wearing pants, but I see a lot of them wearing chaps.

[Nobody]

Yeah, good point! Didnt think about that.. But chaps+jeans would get much hotter than newer style chainsaw pants (for a price). They breathe pretty good these days, and are strategically padded, with very thin strechy fabric on the back side. I have to admit tho, shorts+chaps sounds like a dream..
Also, your point reminded me about something Ianab. The Protos helmet I recommended can get a bit warmer than traditional helmets.

Dunno about the climate in Vermont, but it's not uncommon to experience 30celcius/86fahr for a while in summer here. Would guess the humidity to be another story tho, and that plays a big part.

[Ianab]

This is random video of a local logger, wearing the local "uniform". Jeans and Chaps WOULD be too hot to work in, so shorts it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It5o434EtXw

On the plus side, the plantation pine tends to smother any undergrowth, so it's OK to wander around in shorts and not get torn up with brambles and other rubbish. Humidity is usually in the 70-80% range.

[Nobody]

That looks really comfy! Would sport a pair of briefs under them chaps if I worked deep enough in the woods  :D

That terrain there must be awesome to work in.. never seen anything like it, theres no undergrowth at all.. Better get myself over there sooner than later for a look-see

[John Mc]

Dunno about the climate in Vermont, but it's not uncommon to experience 30celcius/86fahr for a while in summer here. Would guess the humidity to be another story tho, and that plays a big part.

We get the same thing here. 30C/86F for a few days here in the summer, occasionally hitting low 90's F (32-33C). We had some record-breaking heat for our area a couple of times this summer, and a really strange few days when the temperature hit 95F/35C in early October (average for October is high of 58F/14C down to low of 35F/2C). I'm in the Champlain Valley of VT. Up in the mountains it's a bit colder.

[Nobody]

Dunno about the climate in Vermont, but it's not uncommon to experience 30celcius/86fahr for a while in summer here. Would guess the humidity to be another story tho, and that plays a big part.

We get the same thing here. 30C/86F for a few days here in the summer, occasionally hitting low 90's F (32-33C). We had some record-breaking heat for our area a couple of times this summer, and a really strange few days when the temperature hit 95F/35C in early October (average for October is high of 58F/14C down to low of 35F/2C). I'm in the Champlain Valley of VT. Up in the mountains it's a bit colder.

Sound like it's very similar. Have only had a few nights with frost here this month. 11-15C during the day.

[teakwood]

Short and chaps! ??? 
That would be a big no no around here with all the insects we have crawling around and spiny underbrush. I work with long pants year around, even in the woodworking shop, you get used to it.

As i said many times here before, the best thing that worked for me in the heat is the pfanner gladiator cool pants, a white t shirt and the white construction helmet with a curtain and ear props. And believe me i know what working in the heat means: 8 month Rainseason 26-31C/ 78-88F with 80-100%hum and 4 month dryseason 28-36C/ 82-97F with 60-80%hum



  

 

[Nobody]

Short and chaps! ??? 
That would be a big no no around here with all the insects we have crawling around and spiny underbrush. I work with long pants year around, even in the woodworking shop, you get used to it.

As i said many times here before, the best thing that worked for me in the heat is the pfanner gladiator cool pants, a white t shirt and the white construction helmet with a curtain and ear props. And believe me i know what working in the heat means: 8 month Rainseason 26-31C/ 78-88F with 80-100%hum and 4 month dryseason 28-36C/ 82-97F with 60-80%hum



  

 

Have not tried Pfanners gladiator yet. I hear they are just as good as stihl/husqvarna premium pants just without the brand price tag. Could you do a comparison if you've tried stihl/husky pants?

[teakwood]

i have had two stihl pants and they are good, but they weren't the new style vent pants, so i can not compare them actually.
Pfanner's are actually more expensive than stihl an husky, but more than half of the loggers in switzerland changed to pfanner gear, they are considered as good as or even better than the known brands.

[Nobody]

i have had two stihl pants and they are good, but they weren't the new style vent pants, so i can not compare them actually.
Pfanner's are actually more expensive than stihl an husky, but more than half of the loggers in switzerland changed to pfanner gear, they are considered as good as or even better than the known brands.

hmm.. Around here, the Stihl x-fit is about 1/3 more than for the Gladiator.. Probably because of the retailers then..

[John Mc]

Around here, the Stihl x-fit is about 1/3 more than for the Gladiator.. Probably because of the retailers then..

I don't even see the x-fit on the Stihl-USA site.

[Nobody]

Around here, the Stihl x-fit is about 1/3 more than for the Gladiator.. Probably because of the retailers then..

I don't even see the x-fit on the Stihl-USA site.

huh.. well, here's a link from Stihl-Norway. May just get redirected, but worth a try..
http://www.stihl.no/STIHL-produkter/Verneutstyr/Vernebukser-for-motorsag/22135-66308/X-FIT-vernebukse-midje.aspx#accessibletabscontent1508703820161 

[Andries]

I going to guess that the "safest safety gear" is the stuff that you lace up every day going to work.
No thinking about it. Just put 'em on.
When my old Sorel boots gave up the ghost, I looked around a lot before buying Swede-Pro boots from Gemplers in Wisconsin.

My feet run hot. Even at -35 degrees I wear medium weight socks.
My issue is with any boots that have GoreTex in them, is that my feet start to sweat a lot.
Like sweat hog sweat.
Which leads to frozen toes and frostbite ain't no joke.
These boots meet the OSHA reg. 1910.266 requirement for chain saw protective footwear.
I normally wear size 12 boots, but found that they ran a bit small and that the 12 1/2 size fit really well.
Gemplers were really friendly and easy to deal with.
I'll post an update once I get a season in on them: milling, firewood, construction and the usual 'Canadian Crazy' wear and tear.

[teakwood]

i have had two stihl pants and they are good, but they weren't the new style vent pants, so i can not compare them actually.
Pfanner's are actually more expensive than stihl an husky, but more than half of the loggers in switzerland changed to pfanner gear, they are considered as good as or even better than the known brands.

hmm.. Around here, the Stihl x-fit is about 1/3 more than for the Gladiator.. Probably because of the retailers then..

I payed 320$ for the pfanner in Switzerland, in the US they are 300$, so they are not cheap. how much did you pay for the stihl's?

[Nobody]

i have had two stihl pants and they are good, but they weren't the new style vent pants, so i can not compare them actually.
Pfanner's are actually more expensive than stihl an husky, but more than half of the loggers in switzerland changed to pfanner gear, they are considered as good as or even better than the known brands.

hmm.. Around here, the Stihl x-fit is about 1/3 more than for the Gladiator.. Probably because of the retailers then..

I payed 320$ for the pfanner in Switzerland, in the US they are 300$, so they are not cheap. how much did you pay for the stihl's?

about 400$ +VAT   :embarassed:
Hard to compare prices between borders tho. The dollar is strong, and the NOK is weak these days..

[teakwood]

  that is expensive. i checked the stihl page from switzerland and the most expensive one sell for 460$ but i  don't know why it's so much more than others.

The pfanner is great and i will definitely buy another pair, i can just give feedback in hot temps, i have no experience in the cold. But for the summertime you should try a pair out

[Nobody]

that is expensive. i checked the stihl page from switzerland and the most expensive one sell for 460$ but i  don't know why it's so much more than others.

The pfanner is great and i will definitely buy another pair, i can just give feedback in hot temps, i have no experience in the cold. But for the summertime you should try a pair out

Yep. Stupidly expensive imo.. Next pair will be Pfanner, no doubt!

[teakwood]

Pfanner also has pants for the winter i think they called gladiator hot or something like this. If they are as good as the gladiator ventilation pants it's a no brainer. you won't regret.
Just don't confuse the names: the logger pants are called pfanner gladiator or pfanner gladiator ventilation pants which are robust and the arborist climber pants are called pfanner ventilation which are more stretchy and comfortable but not as tough   

[John Mc]

Do any of our forum sponsors sell Pfanner pants?

Teakwood is right: you have to be careful about what you are buying. At least for the stuff marketed in the USA, here is the naming I'v found (they're a bit different names than what shows up on the Pfanner Austria website).

for arborist use: Pfanner Ventilation Pants

Logger - warm weather: Pfanner Gladiator Ventilation Pants

Logger - cooler weather (?): Pfanner Gladiator Pants

Links above are to TreeStuff. All of them run $300. I'm neither endorsing TreeStuff nor knocking them, they were just a convenient place to show the description.

HEre's what TreeStuff said in describing the difference between "Gladiator" and "Gladiator Ventilation" Pants:

The Pfanner Gladiator Pants have no ventilation in them so they are better for colder weather. The Pfanner Gladiator Ventilation Pants have the same front as the traditional Pfanner Gladiator Pants, but the backs have a mesh material at the top and zippers for vents by the backs of the knees.

The stretchy fabric on the back of the Gladiator Pants does breath (in fact, some people complain about their butt getting cold in the winter), they're just not ventilated the way the Gladiator Ventilation Pants are.

[Nobody]

Many thanks for the clarification!! I thought gladiator and ventilation was the same thing.

[John Mc]

Many thanks for the clarification!! I thought gladiator and ventilation was the same thing.

Just heard back from TreeStuff on clarifying the difference. I've edited my post above to add that description.

[teakwood]

Very good post John Mc!

So the only difference between the gladiator and the gladiator vent is the Zipper? Mine have the zipper and with them open sometimes you feel the breeze going thru. I am sure pfanner also makes a winter pants, maybe they are not sold in the US.

the catalog in English: after page 171 the pants start. But confusing, they have new names now???

http://www.pfanner-austria.at/en/downloads/kataloge/

[John Mc]

Very good post John Mc!

So the only difference between the gladiator and the gladiator vent is the Zipper? Mine have the zipper and with them open sometimes you feel the breeze going thru.

The zipper and "some mesh at the top". This was just one vendor's description, so they may have ignored some differences.