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Author Topic: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)  (Read 4517 times)

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Offline teakwood

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Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« on: September 21, 2017, 05:50:35 PM »
In January i have to start a big thinning of my teak plantations, around 17ha (42acres) and around 2500 trees.

Now i am preparing for that.
A worker cuts the underbrush with a machete (a brutal work), then i pass with the MS260 and prune the trees up to 2m (7'), then mark the trees to be thinned with red spray paint, make another pass with the pruning hand saw up to 6m (20') except the red ones, and later another pass has to be made and prune just  the blue ones up to 7,2m (24'). The blue ones are the future trees which will stay to the end, the most straight, fat and dominant trees.

This part of the plantations are 13 years old and that's the second commercial thinning.  Pre commercial thinning at 5 years, first commercial at 9 years, second at 13 years, third at 17 years and then we will see, maybe at 24 years another.

First the battle with the underbrush
 

 
 

  

 

Pruned with chainsaw and marked


 
 

 
Pruning to 20'
 

  

 

double DanG do i love my trees! there is no better feeling than walk thru the forest and see how they grow
 

 

Offline lopet

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2017, 08:42:14 PM »
Good for you. 8) smiley_thumbsup

I will trade your January temperatures. ;D
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2017, 09:17:12 PM »
looking great looking great. 

Questions:  How many trees per acre are you leaving?  What's the average diameter are the harvest trees?  You seem to be keeping a pretty dense stocking level, is that to keep focus on height for now?  Any issues with suppressed buds emerging after thinning?

Love to see some tropical pictures!  You should get TulePeak down to look at some of your sustainable teak.  It is amazing wood.

Offline TKehl

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2017, 09:48:20 PM »
WOW!  Thanks for sharing! 

That's quite the slope in a lot of those pictures. 

Great to see differences and similarities from other areas and climates of the globe! 
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2017, 10:16:35 PM »
Lopet: you don't want our dryseason temperatures! January is actually nice 25-32 (77-88 Fahrenheit) but you definitely don't want march to may 28-36 (82-98) :o :o

Nativewolf:  The plantation is at 360 trees/ha (144/acre) after thinning i leave 220/ha (90/acre), in 4 years will go to 150/ha (60/acre).
Average diam staying is +/- 12". Average of harvest is 8-10".
Now it's dense because it's before thinning, after thinning it looks very thin/light and after 2-3 years the canopy starts closing again and after 4 year it's dense again :D.
It's very difficult to mark the thinning and i am still learning, you have to cut enough but not to much. More trees is more money, but only if they're thick enough! 
The trees in the pictures don't need any more height growing, they're tall enough, but i don't want to cut too many of them because they will be worth a lot more in 4 years.

ooooo, buds emerging is baaaaad in teak!! the stumps need 10 years to finally die. You can see them very good in the first pic. every big leave on the ground you see in the second pic was from a emerging bud from past thinnings. The guy with the machete is ordered to cut them all down. 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2017, 09:02:14 AM »
Lets be honest here, brush cutter guy is really your snake and turantula finder!  :)

Awesome pics

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2017, 09:54:41 AM »
The low density surprises me.  In loblolly pine plantations a low density would be 200/acre with no thinning.  We'd expect to see 12"DBH at 15 years or so (just rough averages, really changes from northern planting zone in Virginia to Southern Georgia).  However, you're not getting much larger trunks with even lower density. 

Wonder if Teak crown is so much larger?  Anyhow, very neat.  Fun to see something different and thanks for sharing.

Online Don P

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2017, 10:37:17 PM »
very cool.
I think the budding question is about the remaining stems, do they form epicormic or side branches in response to the increased light on the trunk or is teak not one of those trees?

google is my friend, I guess that also is part of your thinning management strategy;
https://www.panamateakforestry.com/english/gti/management_strategies.php

what is done with the thinnings from this round, looks like some decent sized pole stock? how thick is the sapwood in those?

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2017, 05:01:20 AM »
Mike: Your not that off with that comment  :D. He cuts thru a snake every once in a while. When we started to clear the land for planting it was bad, they killed one per day over the first 3 years!! Mostly rattle snakes, i am no fan of killing animals and gave them the order to not cut any boa in half, but i couldn't really demand that with the venomous ones or i would have been left without workers. The tarantulas are no problem, they just stay in their hole when they feel vibrations.
The worst are the wasps and ants and ooooh almost forgot the ticks! (but they're more of a dry season problem). The worker gets stung by wasps every day, some are meaner than others. There are at least 50 different types of wasps.

But it's not that bad when you finally get used to it.


Don P: yeah i was guessing a little bit what he meant with that bud question.
Epicormic (had to look that up of course) i have never seen on teak.
Side branching of course, after thinning they tend to grow some side branches where the sun hits but very little, maybe one branch per tree but they don't grow big because the canopy closes fast again and suppresses the new branch and they tend to dry out and get thrown off from the tree. Never the less we pass every 2 year repruning  the trees. more branches grow from the bottom of the tree (what's the correct word for that?) from the trunk. they call them children here.
Side branching is more of a problem on the border trees where a skidtrail passes. Those trees get a lot of sun light from the side.

The logs i sell mostly to Hindu buyers, the bigger the trees the more buyers we have. The Hindu have the lowest price but are the only ones who buy small diam logs. The Chinese and Vietnamese are crazy for logs over 12" and they pay better.
Sapwood should be smaller than 1-1.5"
These pics are from 2016, so the logs should be better by now. Less sapwood, better color on the heartwood
 

  

    

Offline coxy

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2017, 07:22:29 AM »
nice pics of everything   why do you cut all the under brush before cutting the trees does this help in them growing faster like weeding a garden  as far as your critters go you would never see me there  :D

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2017, 09:10:47 AM »
Yeah..youd need to import workers that would even do that job if that plantation was in america.   Or spend $100k on some hepa filtered AC'd sidehill flail mower. 

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2017, 09:40:43 AM »
Why do i cut the underbrush?  ???

Take a look at the first and third pic again! It wouldn't be possible to walk thru that with a chainsaw in hand. What you can't see in the pics that there are lots of climbing plants/ liana typ vegetation who connect every underbrush to the other. you would just hang up if you try to walk thru that.
I don't know if the trees actually benefit from the cleared underbrush but it sure looks nice and eases every other task after that: stockpruning, marking, height pruning, felling, skidding.

Yeah..youd need to import workers that would even do that job if that plantation was in america.   Or spend $100k on some hepa filtered AC'd sidehill flail mower. 
:D :D
and that worker earns 2.4$/hour (i pay him 20 cents more than normal because he is doing on heck of a job. he is 48 and i can put what ever youngster beside him and after a day of works he just leaves them far behind, that's worth something!


Offline nativewolf

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2017, 10:36:43 AM »
Thanks to DonP for clearing up my suppressed bud question, I couldn't remember how teak sprouted or if it did.  Long years ago.

Have you ever put animals in the plantation?  Cows are popular in Thailand/Myanmar/India.  Never seen the teak on Java, I know it is intensive.  Goats would surely keep the undergrowth pretty clear, you'd have to fence though.  In Thailand they'd just hire kids to be cow herds, cheaper than fencing, no real predators, they just keep them moving and herded together. 

Interesting that the Indian buyers pay less but take anything and that the Vietnamese buy at higher prices.  Huh.


Online Don P

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2017, 10:44:21 AM »
our Christmas tree plantations are kept quite clean as well, generally steep land. more often than not that is immigrant labor and herbicides though. not that I'm suggesting that if the economics can allow non chemical methods.

thinking of value added, could those smaller poles produce all heart 6x6" posts and timbers. that and decking would probably find market here.

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2017, 11:12:56 AM »
sustainable certified forest teak decking, heck it would never make it past the docks due to the boat yards.

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2017, 11:14:20 AM »
our Christmas tree plantations are kept quite clean as well, generally steep land. more often than not that is immigrant labor and herbicides though. not that I'm suggesting that if the economics can allow non chemical methods.

thinking of value added, could those smaller poles produce all heart 6x6" posts and timbers. that and decking would probably find market here.

DonP not to derail the thread but do cows just damage the fir too much to allow cows in the older Christmas trees?  I assume you're mostly growing fraiser fir?

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2017, 01:19:54 PM »
 and off into the weeds  :D, I'm not a fan of livestock and trees. it would be too late for the early weed suppression need in Christmas trees before the young trees could handle cattle amongst them. if anyone would know of a trial it would be this agent, she has tried lots of alternatives.
https://christmastrees.ces.ncsu.edu/christmastrees-ipm-farms/
http://fraseripm.blogspot.com/search/label/organic

what I was thinking with the deck parts comment is if there is post harvest time to process that with a lucas. ship air dried rough milled and keep the shipping weight/waste and primary processing money at home.

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2017, 06:09:51 PM »
After the third year we put cattle in. My neighbor has his cattle in my plantations about half of the year. He pays me 3$/head/month. For me it's a win win, they help eating the underbrush and put some on the ground with their walking around, he checks my fences and repairs them as needed. But of course they don't mow that underbrush nice, lots of wooden sticks and non eatable vegetation as well but it helps. I am not a cattle guy and with the cow stealing around here for me it's not a profitable business.

our Christmas tree plantations are kept quite clean as well, generally steep land. more often than not that is immigrant labor and herbicides though. not that I'm suggesting that if the economics can allow non chemical methods.

thinking of value added, could those smaller poles produce all heart 6x6" posts and timbers. that and decking would probably find market here.


Yes they can produce all heart posts(depending on the length required). Do you have something in mind?
For the timber you have to be careful: It's still young wood, (for furniture i just use +20 year old teak, at least) don't confuse young plantation teak with old grown 40,50,70 years old primary forest teak from Burma, Indonesia, ...

sustainable certified forest teak decking, heck it would never make it past the docks due to the boat yards.
i am not sure if i understand what you mean. This teak is still too young to be used on luxury boats

and off into the weeds  :D, I'm not a fan of livestock and trees. it would be too late for the early weed suppression need in Christmas trees before the young trees could handle cattle amongst them. if anyone would know of a trial it would be this agent, she has tried lots of alternatives.
https://christmastrees.ces.ncsu.edu/christmastrees-ipm-farms/
http://fraseripm.blogspot.com/search/label/organic

what I was thinking with the deck parts comment is if there is post harvest time to process that with a lucas. ship air dried rough milled and keep the shipping weight/waste and primary processing money at home.


What do you mean with that?  I have a small bandsaw mill (like a small woodmizer) and there are dry ovens 6miles from my home at a company that i know very well. Or ruff sawn lumber up to 6/4 air dries within 3 month during dry season down to 12-14% 

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2017, 06:31:40 PM »
looking at the log pile it looks like another possible market opportunity for these small diameter logs would be to mill them into 6x6 porch and deck posts and 5/4 x 6" floor decking, railings use 2x4 often. it might be worthwhile to add value and produce something there rather than selling to the one low paying log buyer. easy for me to say from afar  :)

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2017, 07:42:48 PM »
So you think this young plantation teak is going to move a bit?  Boat yards are certainly scrambling to find good alternatives to teak.  They can't get enough of it. 

DonP- I can see cattle and Christmas being a bit challenging.  We're going to be doing babydoll sheep in our blueberry fields, have to move them in april due to usda manure/fecal matter rules but other than that they help and are a hit with the kids.

Cattle in tropical plantations is usually a win win, teakwood is doing it the smart way, getting a few dollars and no cows to maintain.

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2017, 10:27:44 AM »
looking at the log pile it looks like another possible market opportunity for these small diameter logs would be to mill them into 6x6 porch and deck posts and 5/4 x 6" floor decking, railings use 2x4 often. it might be worthwhile to add value and produce something there rather than selling to the one low paying log buyer. easy for me to say from afar  :)

If you sell them i send you a container full of timber! ;D

I would need to find a person who has a market for it in the states and then go thru all the export papers and stuff. It can be done!

"So you think this young plantation teak is going to move a bit?  Boat yards are certainly scrambling to find good alternatives to teak.  They can't get enough of it." 
Well, after drying it would be pretty stable.
Teak grows unbelievable fast the first 10-12 years (growth ring up to 1.5"). Now after 10 years they do 0.5-0.75" and that will decrease the older they get and will densify and improve the hearth wood.
For Boatdecks i am sure it's to young, but for some pool decks or porch decks i think it would work.
The shipbuilders have a hard time to find old teak because there is not much left and the prices grew to the  unpayable, they will have to adapt to plantation teak, but the oldest they can find.

Offline coalsmok

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2017, 06:47:46 PM »
Not sure what the wholesale price would be but a quick search pulled up Brazilian teak 1x6 decking boards selling at around $2.60/lf.

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2017, 08:44:51 PM »
Not sure what the wholesale price would be but a quick search pulled up Brazilian teak 1x6 decking boards selling at around $2.60/lf.

That's not actually Teak

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2017, 08:57:52 PM »
well, we could all talk through it here and try to sell it through the forum want ads?
we use pretty low grade juvenile southern yellow pine for typical 5/4x6 decking. it sounds like you are saying the juvenile heartwood improves as the tree matures further around what is obviously heartwood now. is that the case or is this juvenile heartwood as good as it is going to be now, with the mature, later heartwood outside of this core being what is really superior later? what I'm really wondering I guess is, would this heartwood, as it is now, be considered naturally decay resistant?

if the wood would work the big question then would be how many board feet are in a container and what would it cost to get some specified moisture content rough milled, or, fully dried and surfaced, lumber to a dock here?

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2017, 08:51:57 AM »
The heartwood now will always stay heartwood later too, there will not be a better heartwood ring around the juvenile wood later. It's all the same, but as the future growth rings decrease it will be better and denser wood.
i know that the juvenile heartwood will have better color later and i think that in the future this wood will also densify as the tree gets older although i have no prof of that.

The wood is already naturally decay resistant because of the special specs teak has which is the natural oil in the wood. That oil is already in the wood not depending his age.

Some questions:

Do i need FSC certification to import to the states? or is it just for buyers comfort?
How long are those 1x6 deckings? How thick need the boards to be before planing, at least 6/4?
How long are the posts?
6X6" posts will obviously have the heart in it. Is that a problem? you know a beam/post with heart in it will always have a crack in one side because of shrinking when drying.

Offline tule peak timber

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2017, 08:59:50 AM »
I've had some experience with what you are trying to do.You have lots of competition selling raw wood to finished products with years of experience in front of you. Lots of info on the internet available to help you write a business plan. Most guys just dump into the Indian market. Good luck! 

   Costa Rican cull counter tops .

  A cull kitchen table....Rob
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Offline nativewolf

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2017, 03:32:58 PM »
Ah, Tule Peak has jumped in so that's great.  Ok, question for you:  you've worked with juvinile CR teak before, hwo stable is it?  will it move if used as boat decking?  porch decking?  Just curious.

Offline tule peak timber

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2017, 03:44:59 PM »
I couldn't get it to go as boat decking. As porch and stair treds yes. The CR stuff I have was re-kilned by me and seems to be fine for stability.Rob
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Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2017, 05:49:59 PM »
That's great info and very useful. thanks tule peak
Do you know from which company the teak was, here in CR? How old was the teak? and can i know the price you paid for a board or how are those measurements?
Your kitchen table looks pretty knotty, was that intentional or was the teak all knotty?
What do you mean with cull? I looked that up and it means like to pick out of a bunch, is that correct?

 "You have lots of competition selling raw wood to finished products with years of experience in front of you."

You are right with that statement and i think that i do not want to get into that with my small amount of wood next year. Too much unknown variables.
What i always thought is:
When i have +20 years old teak i try to find one single buyer who would love to buy X amount(small) of quality and to his required measurements sawn (or planed) timber directly from me. I'm sure i can sell him 80% of the price he would pay at the store or timber salesmen.
I need to eliminate the middlemen's who just take a big chunk out of the price without too much effort.
There is no sense to try to compete with the big companies.
But i am sure a buyer would also benefit from such a deal.

Here is a topic i wrote in the woodworking section. It's about my closet i made out of 20 year old teak, lots of pics!

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,92928.msg1431382.html#msg1431382

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2017, 06:34:35 PM »
I couldn't get it to go as boat decking. As porch and stair treds yes. The CR stuff I have was re-kilned by me and seems to be fine for stability.Rob

Couldn't get it to go...meaning no one wanted it?  Didn't work?  Or?

Offline tule peak timber

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2017, 10:45:36 PM »
I looked at your teak closet link. Very attractive and very well done. I found that when I was filling in the blanks/ answers, in my business plan for a second  grower selling teak culls , TACA was the most impressive tool . Without a doubt, the best looking stews on ANY airline, anywhere in the world. Immaculately dressed and extremely professional and polite. This little airline tried so hard it seems they have been absorbed by Avianca. Taca clearly was exceptional and its business model was rewarded..
 You clearly have talent , and what brief research I did on you today would lead me to believe that standing out from the crowd is within your grasp. You need to do the research on your selected business model and go from there.  Rob

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2017, 06:25:21 AM »
Interesting on your preparing for your next harvest.
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Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2017, 10:33:28 PM »
Thanks for you encouraging words, i appreciate.

i kind a on hold with all that teak timber selling, searching for markets of semi or finished teakproducts, investing in woodworking machines

Since 3.5 years i'm trying to get the permits for a stone quarry on my land. Although it has been the most difficult and stressful thing i have ever done in my life i am so close to achieve it.  Seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.  (CR Government and institutions are some of the worst on the planet, a international study confirms my opinion, they have zero interest if the private firms and investors produce or not!!)
The quarry will without a doubt become my main and most profitable business.

So the teak will become my retirement plan and second business. The thinnings will have to be done, no matter what. i'm aware of that. But it was always my idea to let that teak grow to 25,30 even 40 years.     

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2017, 05:53:46 PM »
We finally started the thinning, weather is still a little rainy so i have to wait with the skidding but we already dropped around 550 trees, we (i and a helper) do 80 per day from 6 to 11, after that we skid for 2-3 hours if the day is dry, if not we call it a day. The tops we cut in pieces so nothing stays 1-2' over the ground and let them to rot.
In total i marked 2206 trees for this thinning. The trees in the pics are 13 years old.

Remember that pic from the start of the topic?

 

and now after thinning

 

We did the nasty slopes first

 

Before

 

After

 

Here you can see the difference pretty good. right side is before thinning and the left side is already done

 

the first 30 trees on the landing, nice dark color

 

provisional addition to the atv, i just hated to bend over the chainsaw on the ground which moved all over the place! Now it a sturdy mount at ideal height!! ;D

 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2017, 06:15:22 PM »
Sweet. 


What kinda rubber on the quad?

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2017, 06:24:27 PM »
they were the original tires when i bought the quad and then had them vulcanized with that farm tractor design, good for the mud bad for the road

Offline tule peak timber

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2017, 06:47:38 PM »
I couldn't get it to go as boat decking. As porch and stair treds yes. The CR stuff I have was re-kilned by me and seems to be fine for stability.Rob

Couldn't get it to go...meaning no one wanted it?  Didn't work?  Or?
  Yup...
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2017, 10:26:52 AM »
Some more pics
This is one of the biggest i have to cut, it hurts but i have to make light
 

 
 

  

  

  

  

  

 

18" bar

  

 

  

 

Before

 

After

  

 

Offline chep

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2017, 11:01:39 AM »
Awesome pics! And awesome project. The tropical growth rates make your project so tangible for a person to be involved in a lifetime forestry operation

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2017, 11:51:05 AM »
The normal clear cut circle in teak is 20years, then replant again, so actually if you start young, as i did, you could make 2 circles but i prefer to let them grow.

Offline lopet

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2017, 07:06:15 PM »
Nice pics and good job, just wondering why you as a European are using the Humbolt. I didn't know that style until I moved to where I am now. I personally would have used the conventional cut and probably had my notch even a  little lower where you had yours and my back cut at the same high or a little lower where you had yours. Not trying to criticize, just wondering why you prefer it.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2017, 07:26:42 PM »
teakwood I really enjoy your thread.  Banjo
Cooks AC 36--Prentice 210C--Morgan edger--Kubota M7040 with loader--Case 580 K with extendahoe--Case 850C dozer--Int 1700 series twin cylinder dump/log/flatbed truck--logging arch--2 logrite mill sp.--Cat claw sharpening system--And a bulldog to make sure it all stays here.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #42 on: December 31, 2017, 09:20:37 PM »
Sometimes the good ones has to go to make it better for the rest.
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Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2018, 10:10:28 AM »
Nice pics and good job, just wondering why you as a European are using the Humbolt. I didn't know that style until I moved to where I am now. I personally would have used the conventional cut and probably had my notch even a  little lower where you had yours and my back cut at the same high or a little lower where you had yours. Not trying to criticize, just wondering why you prefer it.

That's a good question! I definitely learned the humbolt technic here on the FF. As we fell lots of trees a day i just adapted all my movements to a minimum so i can do it faster. the humbolt, if done correctly which is not that simple, just gives you a nice, straight butt on the log (as you can see on the pic where i have my hand on the log) so i don't have to make a second cut to square the butt of the log.
And i like the technic because i can cut low and saving any inch of the log will give me more money. ;D ;D 

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2018, 10:34:50 AM »
Sometimes the good ones has to go to make it better for the rest.

In the first pic you can see a tree on the right side (with a blue mark) and another blue one is on the left side (not in the pic) and another blue one further down, which are even bigger and nicer than the one i dropped. The blue trees are my future trees, the dominant ones.
The 3 blue ones stand in a triangle and the red one was in the middle of it. So with falling only one in the middle, although a real nice tree, i help 3 future trees to get more light.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2018, 11:52:35 AM »
Atta boy

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2018, 06:27:29 AM »
The small ones are a real PITA ::) 16 trees in that hitch on 8 chokers 


 

The bigger ones are ok. I will be very happy when the day comes i just need to put 3-4 trees behind the skidder ;D

  

 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2018, 09:14:32 AM »
Thats pulp friction, the days when youre logging for burger flipping money! 

Nice work, itll pay off!

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2018, 12:11:31 PM »
Seeing the spaghetti wire electrical wires reminds me of the tropics (Thailand to India)  for sure.  Just run another wire...no worries.  Fortunate that there is a market for the small stuff, Teak is a great great wood.

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2018, 08:42:44 AM »
Thats pulp friction, the days when youre logging for burger flipping money! 

Nice work, itll pay off!

That's right but the difference with teak is that also the small ones are worth something. The small ones are around 10$, so that hitch was 160$, more or less. Not much but it ads up, i am cutting 2200 trees this year. 

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2018, 08:46:09 AM »
Seeing the spaghetti wire electrical wires reminds me of the tropics (Thailand to India)  for sure.  Just run another wire...no worries.  Fortunate that there is a market for the small stuff, Teak is a great great wood.

 :D :D yeah, these countrys they just don't get it, electrical, phone, tv, internet, everything is in the air looking like a plate of spaghetti. One tree or branch falls and there we are without electricity, again!

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2018, 03:21:39 PM »
Well sign me up for teak!  In oak thats about a $40 load laying on the ground for me. 

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2018, 07:03:53 PM »
yeah but i had to plant and maintain it over the last 13 years, i'm still in the red numbers but thats the first year a real nice amount  gets in as a return. Finally i'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

Thursday we loaded the first long wood container. The logs have to be: 7 meters in average length and 61+ cm circumference average in the middle of the log length, fairly straight.
101 logs in that load and the final amount was 3277$ for 23.8m3 volume

 

  

 

Not the ideal logloader but thats what i got   

    
 

  

 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2018, 07:07:01 PM »
Hey youre makin it happen with what you got.  god willin, thats what counts.

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2018, 09:28:37 PM »
Seeing the spaghetti wire electrical wires reminds me of the tropics (Thailand to India)  for sure.  Just run another wire...no worries.  Fortunate that there is a market for the small stuff, Teak is a great great wood.

 :D :D yeah, these countrys they just don't get it, electrical, phone, tv, internet, everything is in the air looking like a plate of spaghetti. One tree or branch falls and there we are without electricity, again!

Yep, people haven't seen wiring til they get to India.

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2018, 06:51:57 PM »
First load of short wood. I payed the loading per contract because i didn't want to deal with so much short sticks.
180$ per load, so they came with 6 guys and lasted 4 hours for the 26.5m3, 660 logs :o
 

  

 


Offline nativewolf

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2018, 08:52:04 PM »
Hate to ask but I have to...

What do you get for that short wood trailer.  For us backwards Americans he's loaded up over 7 cords of short teak logs.

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2018, 08:55:58 PM »
That's a valid question.

1950$ , so more or less around 2k. I'm pretty pleased with that price because these logs where all from smaller and/or not so straight trees.

Online BargeMonkey

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2018, 09:25:43 PM »
nice to see pictures that don't have snow. 😂 your going to get 3 cuts to a rotation or ? what's the ideal age ?

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2018, 10:00:01 PM »
Normally its around 18 years for the clearcut.  precommercial thinning at 5, first commercial at 9, second at 13 years and clearcut at 18.
i will make another thinning at 17/18 years and let the rest grow to 25, 30 or 40 years, then you talking serious money

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #60 on: January 20, 2018, 02:43:21 PM »
Rented a small bulldozer to renew some of my trails on the finca.

Look at that rig for that small Komatsu 41! :D
 

 

Very nice dozer, ideal for the work i needed done

 

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #61 on: January 20, 2018, 10:24:05 PM »
Did you just drive it off the side of the lowbed?

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #62 on: January 21, 2018, 06:31:32 AM »
Yes, the operator did, but on the other side there is a small dirt hill, so no damage to the lowboy.

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #63 on: January 21, 2018, 06:42:03 AM »
That's a valid question.

1950$ , so more or less around 2k. I'm pretty pleased with that price because these logs where all from smaller and/or not so straight trees.

So turn green with envy NA hardwood guys.  He is getting $285/cord for pulpwood size thinnings.  Now since we know how much work went into it we all know it is not $285 profit but ....that's a very nice price for such small timber. 

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #64 on: January 21, 2018, 06:45:08 AM »
Did you just drive it off the side of the lowbed?

You can't rent big equipment in Costa Rica and use it yourself. It's always from a company who does work with that machine and comes with his operator.
I specially insisted on this driver (Vidal is his name) and excepted a 2 week delay because he had holidays :D
He is without a doubt the best dozer driver i know. He makes one, at most two, passes and that trail is like new again. He lasted 12 hours for almost the whole finca (around 3-4 miles of trails, also cut some new ones which demands more time) and the hour rate is 53$.
After the work was done i told the owner that i will bring him the 636$ to his office. He told me: pay me 530$!! :o and he didn't charge the transport nether. 

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #65 on: January 21, 2018, 06:57:09 AM »
That's a valid question.

1950$ , so more or less around 2k. I'm pretty pleased with that price because these logs where all from smaller and/or not so straight trees.

So turn green with envy NA hardwood guys.  He is getting $285/cord for pulpwood size thinnings.  Now since we know how much work went into it we all know it is not $285 profit but ....that's a very nice price for such small timber. 

and that is after just 13 years of growing. this thinning will bring around 30k, i hope, hard to guess before loading all the wood. tomorrow we load another long wood container. i have 130 long logs waiting cut to length already. I just need around 100 but better to be sure if some of them don't meet the specs.
I will definitely get into black numbers in the next thinning, in 4 years!  The long wood containers will just require 60-70 logs because of the bigger diameters and the same volume (24m3) will bring 4000-4500$ instead of 3200$.
"The pulpwood", how you guys like to call my shortwood  :D :D will always bring the same 2k.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #66 on: January 21, 2018, 08:11:03 AM »
Soo ughhh.. Ya think that stuff'll grow in tennessee? 

 :D

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #67 on: January 21, 2018, 08:21:59 AM »
 :D :D just inside the tropical belt and beneath 600m altitude. The best areas is one with a dryseason (here we have 3 month) where it's real hot and dry so the trees drop all there leaves and the wood can harden and get a beautiful dark color

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #68 on: January 21, 2018, 08:25:58 AM »
I kinda said this before,but I really enjoy this thread, Shows a whole diffeant way to harvest wood. And a kind of wood that is diffeant to me. I also enjoy seeing the way you do things there. Loading a truck by hand stopped around here about 60 years ago.  :)
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Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #69 on: January 21, 2018, 08:50:14 AM »
Thanks thecfarm for the kind words.

I would surely love to have a small grapple and any type of machine, that would also simplify the sorting of the wood immensely, or loading the containers. But kinda hard to justify such a machine for 10 loads a year ???

At some day in the future i would love to have a euro type skidder with the crane in the back and double drum remote controlled winches. A dream.
I like the one lopet has! (i hope you don't mind that i posted your picture! ;D)


 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #70 on: January 21, 2018, 07:36:23 PM »
Ooh la la.

Offline lopet

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #71 on: January 21, 2018, 07:55:51 PM »
Heeh, what's that picture doing here.  :D :D

Well teakwood, this is NOT my dream solution. Don't get me wrong it's working for now if you compromise here  and compromise there.  My dream is to have two skidders, one just for cable skidding and one with a grapple boom and a clamp at the back for all the smaller stuff.
I think this probably would work the best for my operation, but I am afraid I am running out of time . ;D
As I probably mentioned before,  with the boom added later in the skidder's live, it's mounted on top of the winch and the visibility to the back is very poor, also the cab is way too small and too tight and I am 5' 8" 190 lbs.
The seat only turns 90 degree and all twelve loader functions run on one single joystick.

Okay, now you got me going again here, my dream is to replace the 5 speed tranny on my C5 with a clark torque converter and power shift of some mining equipment, ditch the funky cage and replace it with a tractor cab, have a hydraulic rotated seat with pedals for throttle and forward /reverse and two joysticks for all hydraulics and steering.
Also ditch the winch and the arch and mount " Junior's " grapple boom on the back  and  and and.....

What do you think , is that realistic or will it just be a dream ?  You started it  ;D

With all the hassle I went through with the import, I would definitely NOT do it again.
If I were you I would mount a new dual drum winch to the back of of a skidder and have room to mount a boom behind the cab. You're not doing much big stuff either, I mean really big diameter, that's why I think that would work for you.   

 
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #72 on: January 21, 2018, 08:05:18 PM »
lopet  does that turn in the middle or is it front wheel steer    I like to dream to some day ill have an unlimited flow of cash to buy all the new stuff before anyone else gets it would be nice to buy something with 0 hours in stead of things with 50,000 hours  :D

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #73 on: January 21, 2018, 08:44:00 PM »
Teakwood, very interesting operation you have. your photos of teak logs on the ground, ready for market really got my attention. In my neck of the woods it would be rare to see logs cut properly like that. On t.v. they show so called loggers destroying the butts of logs in felling. Doing it wrong is glorified here. Thanks for posting your operation.

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #74 on: January 21, 2018, 10:28:26 PM »
coxy  it articulates like a skidder should and that's why the cab is  v shaped to the back.

That's my dilemma with a dream project like that, I still wanna do it but don't know if I get to use it much or is just going to be built for somebody else.
I have to get out of farming first so I can shake some money and time loose and that's not before another two years.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #75 on: January 22, 2018, 06:39:21 AM »
Heeh, what's that picture doing here.  :D :D

Well teakwood, this is NOT my dream solution. Don't get me wrong it's working for now if you compromise here  and compromise there.  My dream is to have two skidders, one just for cable skidding and one with a grapple boom and a clamp at the back for all the smaller stuff.
I think this probably would work the best for my operation, but I am afraid I am running out of time . ;D
As I probably mentioned before,  with the boom added later in the skidder's live, it's mounted on top of the winch and the visibility to the back is very poor, also the cab is way too small and too tight and I am 5' 8" 190 lbs.
The seat only turns 90 degree and all twelve loader functions run on one single joystick.

Okay, now you got me going again here, my dream is to replace the 5 speed tranny on my C5 with a clark torque converter and power shift of some mining equipment, ditch the funky cage and replace it with a tractor cab, have a hydraulic rotated seat with pedals for throttle and forward /reverse and two joysticks for all hydraulics and steering.
Also ditch the winch and the arch and mount " Junior's " grapple boom on the back  and  and and.....

What do you think , is that realistic or will it just be a dream ?  You started it  ;D

With all the hassle I went through with the import, I would definitely NOT do it again.
If I were you I would mount a new dual drum winch to the back of of a skidder and have room to mount a boom behind the cab. You're not doing much big stuff either, I mean really big diameter, that's why I think that would work for you.   

 

I think the ideal machine for me would be a newer euro skidder but with a "klemmbank" (a big stationary grapple to haul long wood) in the back, dual drum winch and a crane, a small crane would be sufficient. yours seems very big and in the way.
Of Course it would have to have turning seat with all the controls and double joysticks.

But i would want that machine already built this way, i don't have the possibility nor the desire to fabricate such a skidder. adding a winch adding a crane, seems pretty complicated to me.

Offline teakwood

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #76 on: January 22, 2018, 06:45:28 AM »
What do you think , is that realistic or will it just be a dream ?  You started it  ;D

Seems like a awful lot of work/trouble to me ???  But of course you know you situation better. I have no idea what you're logging and my knowledge of the northern forests are pretty limited.

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #77 on: January 22, 2018, 06:44:29 PM »
Seems like a lot of work/trouble to me ??? 

You got that right, maybe I just need more guys trying to talk me out of it.  :D
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #78 on: January 22, 2018, 09:32:30 PM »
Are you a full time logger? do you have your own woods?

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #79 on: January 22, 2018, 10:54:44 PM »
I farm and sell firewood. The logs I am getting out of my 80 acre woodlot and any standing tree which is offered   to me for free, like fence rows and smaller thinning jobs. Once every while I buy a truck load or two when I don't have enough good hard wood.
Living in the snow belt of the Great Lakes makes logging challenging in the winter months, that's the time when I hide in my shop and build my own stuff. Most of my farm wagon gears are home made. :)
 
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2018, 06:29:58 AM »
ahh, now it makes sense to me why you want to start such a fabrication project on you skidder. If you have the time and skills why not!?
80 acres that's a nice piece of land, i have 47ha (116 acres) and it's alot of work.

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #81 on: January 30, 2018, 07:48:15 AM »

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #82 on: January 31, 2018, 06:42:03 PM »
Thanks mike for that post

Myanmar is the last place that has old grown teak left, 70, 80, 100 years old. that's a total different wood than 20 year old plantation teak. of course it's about 3-4 times more expensive also.
I have read some reports from quality teak buyers that it's almost impossible to buy the old teak at a affordable price anymore.

Of course that's good news for us plantation owners. more for me as i'm planning to let them grow to 30-40 years

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #83 on: January 31, 2018, 06:46:01 PM »
Glad something good will come of it i guess

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Re: Preparing for next teak thinning 2018 (Now Started)
« Reply #84 on: February 11, 2018, 10:19:38 AM »
Sold the oldest 260 to my help as a firewood saw and bought him a new MS361 for work.

My "old" (half year) 361 i really like!! Muffler moded and double sided felling dogs
 

  

  

  


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