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Author Topic: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit  (Read 2152 times)

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Offline Engineer

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Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« on: September 21, 2017, 09:17:21 PM »
Pardon me if this has been discussed before but I am not having a lot of luck finding an answer in a search.

I want to put together a first aid kit for working out in the woods.  Basically a trauma kit or large wound kit, like you might get if you hit your leg with an axe or cut yourself with a chainsaw kickback.  I hope to never have to use it, but it might mean the difference between life and death.  I see "logger's first aid kits" being sold by the places like Bailey's or Ben Meadows, but they have limitations - either nothing is listed and you have to go by a poor photo; it's for 15-20 people and I need it for a maximum of two people; or the items included are enough to deal with a bug bite or a thorn scratch and not much else.  A tube of bactine and a Minion Band-Aid ain't gonna do much good in the woods. 

I have spoken to a couple of former Army field medics, who have to deal with gunshot wounds obviously.  They mention blood clotting agents, cotton t-shirts, large bandages, and various chemicals or meds that protect against infection.  I don't have any specifics.

Would anybody care to chime in about what they think should be in a woodsman's trauma kit?  I am going to compile a list and put one together, and hopefully post the results here so that others can put their own together.  My son will have to do a version of this for his BSA First Aid merit badge, but I don't feel like waiting any more - got wood to cut and no time to waste.

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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2017, 09:59:48 PM »
A blood clotting kit should be in every first aid kit.  I also carry one when hunting.
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Offline sawguy21

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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2017, 10:27:29 PM »
This is the contents of a Canadian Red Cross level 1 kit.
4 Sterile Abdominal Dressings (8 x 10)
12 Sterile Gauze Pads (4 x 4)
8 Pairs Latex-Free Gloves
12 Cotton Tip Applicators (6)
6 Triangular Bandages with Pins
4 Sterile Pressure Dressings (4 x 6)
1 Scissors (stainless steel, 5)
1 Splinter Forceps (4)
1 Pocket Mask
100 Hand Cleansing Towelettes
100 Assorted Adhesive Bandages
2 Adhesive Tape Rolls (1)
24 Antiseptic Wipes (Benzalkonium Chloride/BZK)
2 Elastic Bandage Roll (3)
1 Accident Record Book (10 pages)
1 Pencil
40 Non-sterile Gauze (3 x 3)
4 Conforming Gauze (3)
2 Wooden Splints (9)
1 Wooden Splint (12)
1 First Aid Pocket Guide
It comes in a soft bag, weighs about 6 lb and easily fits under the truck seat. That reminds me, I need to check mine. The antiseptic wipes have an expiry date.
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Offline Stuart Caruk

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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2017, 03:06:24 AM »
I carry enough pressure dressings to stop a massive bleed, and a sealed pack of tampons. They work great for stopping blood flow from serious puncture wounds. Cut up they stop serious nose bleeds as well.

Last year when I worked in my shop with a tunnel catheter sticking out of my chest, I always had these close by. If I managed to rip the sucker out, it fed straight into my jugular and down into my heart. Ripping it out inadvertently, I figured might make a mess...
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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2017, 08:21:17 AM »
Something similar to this:  WoundSeal Powder or this:  Clotting Kit
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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2017, 02:17:24 PM »
Here is one that meets the OSHA requirements. Logger First Aid Kit

The one thing I see as missing in sawguy21's kit is a blanket of some kind to prevent shock. They have those reflective foil blankets that are compact and foldable.

Also in our first aid training, the EMT doing the training says to keep a box of women's menstrual pads in the kit as they are good for stopping blood flow. That and pressure are your best friend. I would not advise using any wound seal powder or clotting agent on any wound that will require further treatment. Pressure and an absorbent pad are the best remedy.

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2017, 05:18:46 PM »
Quote
I would not advise using any wound seal powder or clotting agent on any wound that will require further treatment.
I'm all ears.  Whatever I need to know, I'm ready to learn.   :P
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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2017, 06:45:09 PM »
Here in MN and through the MN Logger Education Program (MLEP) we are required to take first aid training every other year with CPR the other years. The EMT lady that gives the training does NOT recommend putting anything on a wound except clean water, alcohol pads and/or sterile dressings. Burns get nothing because even gauze pads will stick and be very painful when they have to be scraped off later.

The basic rules that I know are to clean the wound with clean water or antiseptic pads. apply sterile dressing, and apply pressure till it stops bleeding. If something is still in the wound, leave it because it may be plugging the blood flow and apply pads and pressure around the foreign object. If the blood flow is pulsating, then more pressure and perhaps a tourniquet should be used. If you use a tourniquet, don't loosen it when the flow stops. Leave that for the EMT's to deal with.

When we had livestock, our vet would not even use blood stop when dehorning and castrating when the blood was spurting all over the place. If anything he would pinch off the vessel or burn it with a hot iron. He said the blood stop was worthless and a potential contaminant.

I've had countless blood draws and even when on blood thinners they just apply pressure and a tight gauze wrap and tell you to take it off after about 20 minutes. On a cardiac catherization when they make an incision in a vein in your groin, they just apply a dressing and a weight when they are done and make you lie still for two hours.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2017, 07:47:28 PM »
We taught that blood clotting agents were for extreme use, remote, help not on the way, survival situation.  I never saw the need working in the woods.
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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2017, 09:32:04 PM »
OK, but I have not been told anything that I did not already know.  I too worked in an industry that required advanced first aid, CPR, both conscious and unconscious pole extraction, manhole and trench extraction which included poisonous gas.  I know that the only time that a tourniquet is to be used is to sacrifice a limb to save a life.  I am also a many gallon blood donor and I grew up on a farm where dehorning and castrations were normal activities.  I was also so unfortunate as to witness a co-worker killed that was standing less than 10' away.

The purpose of a clotting agent is not for normal first aid, but for an extreme circumstance which I hope never happens.  I have no hesitation or reservation about having a kit in my truck and also a packet in my hunting backpack.
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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2017, 10:32:04 PM »
The purpose of a clotting agent is not for normal first aid, but for an extreme circumstance which I hope never happens.  I have no hesitation or reservation about having a kit in my truck and also a packet in my hunting backpack.

That's certainly OK, but for me in those extreme circumstances the chances of clotting agents doing any good are close to zero. If I were to add anything to a first aid kit other than what's recommended, the first thing would be some Forceps, Hemostats
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Offline Stephen Alford

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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2017, 01:42:55 PM »
 Over the years I have found a  mirror has been great to have for the odd time you get debris in your eye.

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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2017, 03:26:38 PM »
I am a full-time firefighter/EMT. Have some clotting agent impregnated gauze for packing non-tourniquet accessible deep wounds such as abdominal or thoracic, and have some CAT tourniquets for all extremity bleeds. If direct pressure won't stop it then tourniquet and leave it on with application time noted. A good conforming splint such as a SAM splint with some gauze rolls is great also for displaced breaks.
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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2017, 04:18:36 PM »
I worked for a Dartmouth College professor that made a special bandage for large wounds very large he told me .
Him and the college sold the idea to the military for a large amount of money.
He told me it help the wounded person to have a chance to make it to the trauma unit.
This man was very smart
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Offline codemunk3y

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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2017, 10:15:05 PM »
I'll provide my background so that the following has context. I am currently a police officer full time and a member of the Australian Army as a reservist. I have completed a number of first aid courses through work, volunteer fire brigade and have done a Combat First Aid course through army which included insertion of IV's, giving morphine and dealing with trauma.

I have two first aid kits, a trauma kit and a boo boo kit.

The trauma kit has a CAT Tourniquet, compression bandage and 3 shell dressings. It covers the immediate incident such as losing control of the saw and hitting something not protected by safety gear, as well as snake bite. It will help me until I seek medical attention from external sources. I am planning on adding an IV kit to it at some point, but have not done so yet. This kit lives on my person at all times. I have a very small chest rig similar to what you would see in the army that contains all of that. The reasoning behind that is that if I'm changing gear such as taking jackets on and off, chaps on and off, then I always have it on me as opposed to in a pocket or on a belt.

The boo boo kits sits in the car and contains everything else. Band aids, antiseptic, splinter removers and everything else. It's bulky but it covers every other situation.

The other thing to consider is how you go about seeking medical assistance. I work alone in an area of limited to no phone reception. I carry a EPIRB/PLB on me that I can use to get help if my phone doesn't work. I know that if I need to get help then it's at least 60mins by helicopter and 2 hours by road. I make sure I carry a small amount of food to keep me going while I wait and a section of panel marker if I need to attract attention to air assets.

I hope to never use any of it but I know it's there when I do and more importantly know how to use it. First aid courses give you a good idea what you need to do and what you need to carry.






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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2019, 09:04:41 PM »
I am a full-time firefighter/EMT. Have some clotting agent impregnated gauze for packing non-tourniquet accessible deep wounds such as abdominal or thoracic, and have some CAT tourniquets for all extremity bleeds. If direct pressure won't stop it then tourniquet and leave it on with application time noted. A good conforming splint such as a SAM splint with some gauze rolls is great also for displaced breaks.
Coming from another ff/emt I agree completely and add in a couple chest seals (prefer HALO myself) and keep a survival kit handy in case of extended time out.

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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2019, 07:29:26 AM »
I'd like to jump in here, but before I do, let me try to understand what you are looking for. Are you looking for a personal kit to be carried by a person daily, or a crew kit that will live in the skidder, truck, or at the landing? There is a big difference between the two and the decisions and choices you make.
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Offline lxskllr

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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2019, 10:30:29 PM »
Visited this thread after having purchase paralysis debating over a trauma kit. Didn't help much tbh, but what I ended up getting was an Israeli bandage, and a RATS tourniquet. I'm gonna put them in an m16 magazine pouch, then add some stuff I consider useful to fill it up. That'll easily fit on my saddle or chaps, and it's a nicer case that just about any end user case.

Seems like the kits have junk I'll never use that only serves to inflate the price, and not enough, or none at all, things I'd find useful.

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2019, 07:27:58 AM »
Visited this thread after having purchase paralysis debating over a trauma kit. Didn't help much tbh, but what I ended up getting was an Israeli bandage, and a RATS tourniquet. I'm gonna put them in an m16 magazine pouch, then add some stuff I consider useful to fill it up. That'll easily fit on my saddle or chaps, and it's a nicer case that just about any end user case.

Seems like the kits have junk I'll never use that only serves to inflate the price, and not enough, or none at all, things I'd find useful.
a Couple of 4x4's, some Stop Clot, and some roller gauze should finish it off. Put everything in a zip log bag with the air squeezed out before you put it in the pouch. This will keep it in good shape for years. Mine is very similar, about 4x6 pouch, hangs on my felling belt. Everything in it is clean as a whistle. These take a lot of abuse, rain, snow, mud. Dirt and moisture work their way in.
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2019, 07:57:13 AM »
the stop the clot gauze works well and as stated it is for large deep wounds.  do not use a maxipad if a finger with gauze will work.  You can watch the stop the bleed videos if you like.  you want the most psi over the area or proximal to it to stop arterial bleeding.  If you get a kit to keep stuff clean, you can keep adding stuff as you figure out you need it.  we throw out hemostats as they are all disposable now. I carry quick clot and a tourniquet in my car everywhere.
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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2019, 08:29:41 AM »
Since I have been 'out of the game' I have lost my sources. Gotta look for some of those hemostats. I may have some in an OB kit if I still have one laying around, but I thought they just had cord claps, not the same thing exactly :) . Never did get around to buying a CAT, I should do that, usually have stuff handy that will do the job. Is Stop Clot OTC now Doc? Last time I messed with it, it was new, and had a short shelf life with a big price tag. Our state had not yet approved it for field use and I forgot about it for a while. I always have a 'big kit' not too far away, but keep small ones with the right stuff handy.
 I am going to have to cultivate a source soon. Too may kits to keep up with. Each with it's own target purpose. My favorite is the StatPacks thigh bag I use for festivals now. Just basic initial stuff, a b/p cuff and steth, pulse ox, a few 4x4's, wipes, gloves, hemostats, roller gauze, tape, notepad, pen, glasses, bandage & trauma shears, antibiotic packets, and various band-aids. I give out lots of band-aids. Its a nice little pack, easy to carry. It is ALWAYS in my truck the rest of the year.
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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2019, 08:36:29 AM »
I think so.  I get samples.  fire carries it, and ems is about to start.  email the co and ask for a sample.  We used to save up hemostats and would have 5 gallon buckets of med tools.  I might try to save up a batch for who needs um.  I carry quick clot.  I thinks it uses some parts of crab/seafood to stimulate slotting.
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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2019, 05:30:36 PM »
@doc henderson ,

   May be a silly question but won't be my first or likely my last, but if the quick clot product you mention is made from shellfish is it likely to cause a serious allergic reaction to people allergic to seafood/iodine like my daughter? Or is it one of those cases where you don't care because you can always give epi later, if needed, and treat the allergy/reaction while not stopping the blood loss would be more serious or fatal?
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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2019, 05:41:58 PM »
I think it is a processed protein, and I do not think that is a concern but let me double check.  A tourniquet is also a good thing to keep handy, or have to know how to make one in a pinch.  The R & D department (US military)  has found that most limb salvage is based on the wound, not from the tourniquet.  So only use if needed, but the leg won't do much good if you bleed to death.  if I put a tourniquet on my uninjured leg for an hour, it would hurt but my leg should be fine.  do not try this at home.  so if needed, do not hesitate to apply a tourniquet and seek medical help.  again more info at "stop the bleed"  including some active shooter stuff.
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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2019, 05:48:18 PM »
They refer to it as a mineral Kaolin.  Little to no risk of allergy.  I agree that the risk is so low that it should be used and ongoing treatment rendered as needed.  I assume and will verify that the Iodine is absent, and the risk may be to other things in the product.  
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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2019, 05:59:52 PM »
there is a lot of stuff out there.  you can get quick clot on amazon or Walmart online. an ace wrap or dedicated compression bandage.  there is a medication called TXA we are beginning to use for massive bleeding in the usa.  It has been used a long time in Europe and the pills are sold over the counter for heavy periods.  on the highway, working with heavy equipment and chainsaws, this is definitely something to consider.  keep in your car, backpack, workplace.
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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2019, 06:23:17 PM »
I have been following t'quit usage and studies for over 20 years. Read them ALL (Boston Med was my favorite) and  still wonder why it took the AHA so long to endorse them given the evidence. Anyway, I should get a proper one. If you ever find yourself with excess samples of stop clot, I know an EMT that would like to have a few in his pouch. ;D ;D Mine long expired. When I get back, I will see if I can snag some directly, no time now. Who are the main producers now? I did have some samples from Moore medical when I handled the EMS account with them, but since I don't spend money with them now, I doubt they would help me out.
 WV that was a great question, I never thought of that! I assume we would all do what has to be done in the moment, but it's great when you know what to expect next and can be ready for it. Truthfully I have never had one that got to the point of using a stop clot like product, but I would be a fool if I were not thinking about it. I have had them either controllable with conventional methods or way past any clotting agents being of use (CTD). I have not yet seen it all, because nobody has. Right Doc? Looking forward to hearing if Doc gets a definative answer. I suspect his initial thoughts will hold true and it's not an issue. But it is still a great question I would want to know.
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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2019, 10:28:01 PM »
just so you know, (prob. already do)  most pharma items have a shelf life that is arbitrary.  so 3 years after the exp. it is still prob. fine.  It does matter to store properly and not damage the package.  the quick clot is dry and a mineral so it should be fine.  at least do not throw it out until you get some new.  there are a few drugs like tetracycline that can become toxic when old, most will loose a little efficacy, but most are fine even past the exp. for a while.  I get samples at training stuff, but if I get some extra, I know what to do.  can get some instruments as well,  @Old Greenhorn 
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

Offline doc henderson

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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2019, 10:48:11 PM »
here is what is in my bleeding pocket of my back pack.



 

In another pocket is a heavy froggs rain gear, safety glasses and gloves.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: Trauma kit/logger's first aid kit
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2019, 11:24:48 PM »
Philmont rules, right DOc? 'Be able to find all critical items in your pack in pitch darkness. That's the way I always packed too. Upper rght was always emergency med stuff, rear was weather emergencies, upper left was water. 
 Thanks. Headed out in the morning, just came in from doing a rush slab for our camp (long story) and I got pictures, but no time to make a post. On the road early in the AM, back in a week. Thanks.
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) I mill for fun and my mental health. NYLT Certified.

I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here.


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