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Author Topic: Busted Primer  (Read 3596 times)

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Offline Magicman

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Busted Primer
« on: November 19, 2017, 03:08:45 PM »
This was an absolute first for me.  I carried the .280 sighted in with a different cartridge/bullet as a backup rifle on my recent Elk hunt.  Of course it was not needed, so I now needed to re-zero the scope with my normal Deer round: Factory Remington 140 gr Core-Lokt.
 

 
I have shot thousands of both factory and handloaded cartridges, but never had a primer failure.  I knew when sparks flew and I got an eyeful of something that something unusual had happened!  Yup, then I put my shooting glasses on.
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Offline TimRB

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2017, 03:51:34 PM »
Is that a crack forming on the side near the head?  If so, you may have a headspace issue.  Possibly the brass stuck to the side of the chamber during firing, as it's supposed to, but a gap existed between the head and the bolt face allowing the primer to back out and let gas loose to carbon up the head and generally make a mess of things.  Possibly.

Tim

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2017, 04:01:04 PM »
That was a factory round, but I see what you are looking at.  The spent cartridge is still at the Cabin, so I will check that out and report.  I had fired several rounds re-zeroing back in September before the Elk trip, and I fired two more rounds after this happened.
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Offline goose63

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2017, 04:34:43 PM »
Linn if I load mine a little to hot that will happen to mine  :o
goose
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Offline TimRB

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2017, 05:58:16 PM »
Linn if I load mine a little to hot that will happen to mine  :o

Hard to tell from the photo, but there seems to be a bit of cratering on that primer.

Tim

Offline Magicman

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2017, 06:02:13 PM »
I have separated heads before when I was reloading and didn't pay enough attention to headspace.  This being a factory load, head separation would surprise me.  It will have to remain a mystery until I get back to the Cabin.   smiley_headscratch
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2017, 09:13:38 PM »
Wow, Good your ok. Never seen a factory load do that before.
Did you get the bullets on sale? :D :D ;)

Offline ToddsPoint

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2017, 05:00:59 AM »
Check your firing pin to make sure it isn't broken.  Gary
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2017, 08:04:27 AM »
OK but I fired several more rounds after this happened.
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2017, 02:08:21 PM »
I now have the spent brass in hand.  There is no head separation or even a bright ring ahead of the web indicating that the brass stretched.  The blackened ring visible in the above picture is where the gasses passed the web and stopped where the brass was sealed inside of the chamber.  There also is no primer cratering around the firing pin strike.

I still did not find any indication that there is a problem with the rifle especially since I shot several times after this happened.  Hopefully this was just a freak incident.
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2017, 06:49:22 PM »
I think that in your case Lynn, it's just one of those things that happen once in a while!   :-\
~Chuck~
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2017, 08:54:34 PM »
A bad round.

Offline addysdaddy

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2017, 04:42:17 AM »
Howdy. Glad to hear you are okay. Is there a chance that your barrel end got plugged with a little bit of dirt etc during the hunt. The gas pressure has to go somewhere and the primer is the weakest link in the chain. Most barrels are proofed much stronger than the cartridge they are designed for. Lay a metal straight edge along the barrel and look for the most minute bulge.
Trying to think of something Cool to say kinda defeats the purpose.
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2017, 08:06:13 AM »
This was my "backup" rifle and was not used during my hunt.  I shot and zeroed it with my Elk cartridge before I left and it was stored in the camper.  I was re-zeroing it with my normal deer cartridge.

Now for the answer.  It's amazing how the mind works when you take your mind off of the actual puzzle.  This came to me last night while I was supposed to be sleeping.  addysdaddy, you were getting mighty close.

I always put electrical tape over the barrel end of my hunting rifles to prevent the possibility of dirt/snow from plugging the barrel.  In this case I used the last bit of electrical vinyl tape on the '06 that I actually used and shot while hunting.  I then searched my shop at the Cabin and found a roll of heavy vinyl utility tape and used it on the .280.  This heavy (thick) tape was on the rifle end when I shot it which caused the higher pressure buildup and blew the primer.  Guess what?  I put the same tape over the barrel end after I finished shooting Saturday!!!

Yes, there is now a roll of electrical tape in my vehicle for the Cabin.

This incident just like sawing incidents may serve to help someone else which is why I don't mind sharing mistakes and the ultimate solution.  I thank each of you for your input because we all learn together.   smiley_thumbsup
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Offline addysdaddy

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2017, 12:21:49 PM »
Every learning experience you walk away from has value. A friend of mine uses those small finger cots. little rubber tubes to cover his rifle barrels on rainy days. they blow off with the air in the barrel as the bullet is shot. Antway, glad the mystery is solved.
Trying to think of something Cool to say kinda defeats the purpose.
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Offline Crow99

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2017, 06:47:50 PM »
Looking carefully at your photo,  I would call it primer failure, not necessarily excess pressure.  I see that the anvil and the round body of the primer stayed in the case. Commonly, when excess pressure "blows" a primer pocket,  the whole primer falls out because the brass pocket is expanded.  In your case it looks like just the flat rear of the primer separated from the rest and there was of course a huge gas leak that cratered your bolt face. So it looks like the primer cup failed where it was folded.. weak metal combined with stress at the fold, maybe faulty annealing, and it let go.
If I were you, I would contact Remington about this.  I would say they owe you a new bolt...  imho, definitely not due to taped muzzle.

Offline Magicman

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2017, 07:10:31 PM »
You are correct that only the rear of the primer separated at the fold.  The remainder of the primer and the anvil remained in the case.

I will look more closely at the bolt face when I go back to the Cabin.
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Offline Crow99

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2017, 07:40:44 PM »
Yeah, that bolt face Looks badly cratered / gas cut around the primer.
Remington will want the information and lot number from thge ammo box too.

Offline Magicman

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2017, 07:16:50 PM »
Yes the bolt face is badly cratered.  Ill be communicating with Remington and Browning next week. 
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Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2017, 07:35:56 AM »
Being a backup gun,  did it have oil in chamber and barrel?  This could push pressure.
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2017, 08:04:42 AM »
No oil, I did not clean or oil after sighting it in before the Colorado trip.

I am in contact with Remington and am providing them with the information that they are requesting.
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Offline Mad Professor

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2018, 04:09:20 AM »
I also use tape to protect the muzzle on my rifles, particularly my traditional BP MLers.

But what I do is only apply tape to the end/muzzle, and trim with my knife so only a circle of tape covers the end. Never had a problem this way

Offline Magicman

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2018, 09:59:30 PM »
Everything has been sent to Remington so the ball is in their court.  I ain't expecting much.   ::)
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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2018, 10:37:56 PM »
Speaking of Remington. 

I have read in several news releases that Remington is filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy:  In brief: Remington files for bankruptcy amid declining gun sales | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

I have always been very partial to their weapons.  Maybe because that's what I grew up shooting.

Bruce

Offline Magicman

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2018, 01:05:27 PM »
Thank You @Crow99 for your Reply #15.  I contacted Remington who sent me a return shipping label and requested the spent cartridges as well as any unfired cartridges e/w the box, etc.

Remington contacted me yesterday stating that they would cover the cost of the bolt plus replace the ammo.  The said that the failure was due to corrosion inside of the primer.  They gave me a contact with Browning.  Browning then called me today and sent me a return shipping label.

I will box the entire rifle and send it to Browning.

Edit:  Browning sent me a return label and the rifle has been boxed and delivered to UPS.
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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2018, 07:59:10 PM »
Excellent!  Looks like you'e on the way to a full resolution of the problem. I' m glad that Remington is making things right for you.  These days you hear so many times where this or that company leaves people high and dry. It's good to hear that one is doing the right thing.

Offline moosehunter

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2018, 08:23:28 AM »
A good many years ago I was having trouble with my Remington 870. Whenever I shot a slug the chamber would open. Shot thousands of rounds of trap loads without it happening ,before and after the slug problem. 
I called Remington and sent the gun to them. A few weeks later a representative called me to say he couldn't find a problem with it and that I was inadvertently pulling the chamber open when I fired the gun. I explained that I had thought of that possibility and had bench fired it with no hand on the forend, it still opened.
Another week or so went by and I received another phone call from Remington "we are unable to find any problem with your shotgun,  we are sending it back to you". A few days later the gun came via UPS, in the box was a letter stating that they had found nothing wrong. The 870 had a brand new receiver and bolt. Hmmmm, they found nothing wrong but replaced the receiver and bolt? Remington did not put in writing or verbally tell me that they were replacing parts. The chamber did not pop open when firing slugs after that.
I have always wondered if they really couldn't find something wrong and replaced parts to cya or if they knew there was a problem and replaced parts to fix it.
Oh well, they didn't charge me, the gun works properly. 
mh

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2018, 11:09:37 AM »
   While I was in USMC we had a problem on the M2 (I think) .50 cal machinegun on the LVTs jamming after a few rounds. I think it was Browning who made them. They took the gun and drilled a hole in the cover and mounted a camera to watch the feed. Fired thousands of rounds with no further problem. Evidently the extra space at the cover for the lens fixed the problem. Accidental discovery. Never can tell what till you try it out.
Howard Green
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Offline Magicman

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2018, 08:26:44 AM »
My rifle is back from Browning.  I have no idea how they repaired the bolt face but the crater is gone and it is now smooth, all at no cost to me.  Remington also sent me two boxes of cartridges.

Thanks to all who offered suggestions and motivated me to examine the bolt face and take the necessary steps toward getting it repaired.

 
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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2018, 09:40:56 PM »
I heard on the news Remington is about to fold.
Did y'all here this?
Magic has a Brand New Sticker

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Re: Busted Primer
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2018, 10:13:58 PM »
They are in Chapter 11 "restructuring" bankruptcy same as many/most of the other gun manufacturers have gone through.  I don't know how you reduce your debt by $650 million but that is their plan??

They handled my incident very professionally and with no reluctance.  Browning did the fix, Remington paid for it, and I am 100% satisfied.
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