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Making charcoal

Started by Don P, November 22, 2017, 07:52:01 AM

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Ljohnsaw

I've been following along, too.  I have a pile of aluminum that, someday, I want to melt down and make something...
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Don P

I'm glad y'all are enjoying it too, I've always wanted to mess with this end of things. So far about the only thing I've spent is time. I guarantee those old iron workers here a century ago were using river sand and hillside clay to make molds and refractory lining.

There was one of those aha moments yesterday, actually there were several, we call them ignoseconds cause whatever it was was usually really ignorant and you figure that out in the span of about a second.
One was, the heat and flame are not that visible, and it is some kind of hot. Always have the gloves on.
When the crucible leaked into the furnace there was a second of "where is it?".  "Uh-oh, I hope it doesn't run back to the fan" (Fan should be up with a downward sloping tube to the tuyere!) Quick check and the fan was good. Next thought, 2 or 3 lbs of red hot glowing aluminum just hit the sheet metal bottom of the pail, and I'm over snowmelt saturated wet ground, big spatter hazard. Probably better over a dry bed of sand. Happily, ignorant but unscarred  :)

Dave Shepard

Water expands 1,600 times when turning into vapor.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

samandothers

You are wise to recognize the dangers though a bit delayed but better than not recognizing and paying a higher price!

Enjoying the journey.

Don P

Slow learner but learning  :D
The camera decided it wasn't too bad out today.
This is the 5 minute furnace. Small blower, too much for this even, I had an old brake shoe I was shading it with most of the time, I can make an adjustable swinging flap. This would work for a number of pours if lined with some kind of refractory. It would burn hotter with a lot less fuel.



This is inside at the bottom, that is the tuyere, the blow pipe to the fan, the dropped pour did try to head back to the fan, that's melted aluminum in the pipe. Notice it burned though the sheet metal... or without going to the trouble of lining a quickie pail furnace it will last long enough for a few pound pour.



This is the dropped pour, I'll remelt it next time, charcoal floats and skims off easily. Sort of neat as art.



The lined furnace I'm thinking might be a flue pipe stuck in an old drum with hillside clay packed around it and a very slow warmup to cure it then continue on and fire. I'm going to bring the blast in either at several points around it (in our old local iron furnaces that duct around the old furnaces was called the windbelt) or from underneath like a forge to get a more even burn. You can see the cold back corner on the pail. My single inlet charcoal burning drum suffers from the same problem. When I have time I'll make a lined furnace and try again.

Don P

I got back over there yesterday and flipped out the burn barrel from that second burn above. What was up is generally to the right and the bottom end of the slabs as they stood in the packed barrel is to the left.


It looks like the fire went up from my too small inlet at the bottom until it found a level where it had enough air from above to burn and then it never got enough oxygen to really get going down below. I had other things to do yesterday so didn't take time to cut more inlets. I decided to start with a smaller looser fire in the bottom, let it burn and then start feeding those slab ends back into the fire as it could take them. I finished by throwing the roof board cutoffs in. (I pulled about 30 good pieces of reasonable length 1x6 poplar out of what had been chucked into that pile in the background ) I probably fed it every hour or so and then dropped the top on what was then only about a 3/4 full drum and sealed it off with a couple of scoops of dirt. When I would throw in a healthy amount the smoke goes white, steam, then if I had thrown on too much it would have green/yellow in it, unburned wet methane I think, choking it down too much.

I think I've got enough lump and blacksmith charcoal for the near future, my barn shed is about full of bags  :D
I'm going to start just burning and dumping the charcoal and make a pile. Screening and bagging on any scale would need work, its bottlenecking me right now, need to clean up and get out of his pasture. I'd like to have enough frost action after I pull out to help loosen up our compaction of that site over the past year.  I'll let it sit in the weather until I'm done burning. Then I'll get a hammermill and dump the rest through it and grind it to biochar. I cleaned up the planer shavings and put them in the farm compost pile. Moved the planer up into the barn for doing the loft floorboards which will generate a bunch more shavings. The ground biochar will mostly go on the pile with the shavings and I'll roll it all in. Hopefully it will be good black earth for their garden in a year or two

r.man

The easiest way to make charcoal that i have found is in an outdoor furnace. Load heavier than needed one visit and then shovel excess coals into a steel pail the next time. Sift out the ash after the pail has cooled and repeat. I am making fuel grade for a charcoal gasifier so I will grind the raw stuff into smaller pieces and sift out the dust. Without much extra time involved I am producing about 2 pails or close to 10 gallons of raw charcoal a day. I have made charcoal in an indirect barrel system as well as a direct and this is by far the least time consuming way.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

Ljohnsaw

That sounds like the best way - you are making heat that you are using and robbing a little to make the charcoal, instead of just wasting all the heat.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Don P

r.man, Have you figured out how you're going to grind it? I was thinking a hammermill, curious to hear how people do it.  I'd really like to see plans and progress on the gasifier when you have time.

Dave Shepard

This is at the top of a burn cycle, so everything is glowing pretty well, but it's all charcoal. I could produce a couple barrels a day.

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

gww

Dave
I have pulled that type of stuff out of my stove before.  Do you find that to be cooking charcoal?  I do know if you do it the indirect way and burn all the gasses out of the wood that you would not smell things like hickory smoke when you used it for cooking.  The stuff out of my stove looked ok but I have tried cooking over wood and it is terrible.  So, You may not be using the charcoal for cooking but does just pulling the wood out of the furnace get it to be smokeless or at least make the smoke not smell like smoke?  Smoke not controlled makes good meat bitter.

I could try it myself cause I am burning wood every day but figured if you already know, I don't have to waste a steak if I am wrong.
Cheers
gww

Dave Shepard

I haven't tried cooking with it. My interests are more along the lines of blacksmithing with it. These are softwood slabs. Hardwood slabs do the same thing. Actual split firewood I don't think would work as well.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

gww

Dave
I kinda knew you were using it for differrent stuff but thought I would ask anyway.  Thank you for taking the time to respond.
Cheers
gww

Don P

I've screened out some lump for grilling but haven't tried any yet. I suspect it is creosote or the tars stuck to the charcoal that is giving it the off flavor. One check I read somewhere along the way said that good charcoal shouldn't really need soap to come off you, if it is shiny, oily or tarry it was at too low a temperature so is not just pure carbon yet. That might be the flavor  ???

I picked up some playsand and firebrick today while I was coming home from the last round of physical therapy for the shoulder repair. I think I'll try lining a half barrel with bricks packed with hillside clay, fire it slow then try a melt and see what happens.

The roofers were finishing up at the barn so I cleaned up there, dumped the last load of charcoal and have just smothered todays burn. I think one more and I'll be out of that pasture.  Up behind the haybarn where we set up later and sawed from midsummer to fall has enough slabs and edgings for quite a bit more.

r.man

Don I built a grinder last year based on one by Gary Gilmour. Fairly fast with a separater screen built on to it and it gives good results. I do have a better gear box and motor to put on it as well as some dust control before I use it for large amounts.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

Don P

I'd appreciate a look if you have any pics.
How were you direct and indirect firing?
Several years ago a friend was making charcoal indirectly by filling a 55 gallon drum with wood, put the band clamp on the lid and laid the sealed drum on its side across angle iron that was across a cinder block firebox. He put the 2" bung on the bottom and ran a pipe from that hole back to the fire. The unburned gasses coming from the cooking wood would help feed the fire. It was working good until creosote, condensate and ash blocked the pipe. It's kind of suprising how far the top of a drum can go. We decided it needed a hinged steel flap in the lid as a popoff valve.

With this I was trying to find an easy way to make charcoal on site out of the slab pile. For a teenager this might turn a few bucks.

gww

Don
Thanks for mentioning the 50 gal barrel thing and also what to be carefull of on it.
Cheers
gww

Paul_H

Hi Don,

here is a FF link to a thread on making charcoal and running small engines on the the screened fuel. This link should take you to a charcoal grinder built by FF member Magicmikey

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,81327.msg1297600.html#msg1297600
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Don P

Thanks Paul!  I made the mistake of reading the whole thread and watching all the videos. That looks so much easier with charcoal. This could be a problem, that looks like fun  ;D

Paul_H

Yes,charcoal like sawdust is addicting!😀
I remember the threads you posted long ago of the charcoal kilns near where you were working. Pretty interesting,we have nothing like it around here.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Don P

That looks like an easy way to get into running on wood. I liked Gary's method of making charcoal. I do have another tank I could make an afterburner out of for this tank. It would take the knuckleboom to set it, although that's do-able. I can see even when my smoke cleans up there is a lot of unburned gas rolling out of the drum, that extra burn room I'm sure would help clean that up. I like the big barrel for holding a fair amount of slabwood at a time. It makes a pretty good whack of charcoal but I can see that as a good thing, there are several vehicles that don't leave the farm but run a lot. That I think would be a good place for charcoal or wood gas.

The rotary screen is a great idea, looks very much like a gristmill's bolter reel. They start out with a fine screen for cornstarch and then become progressively more coarse as the ground grain travels down the bolter. There are dividers underneath at each screen change. What I've been capturing between chicken wire and expanded metal screens, my aluminum melting size, looks like about the size you all are using for transport fuel.

bdsmith

Don P:
I grind my charcoal with a Toro leaf blower using the vacuum attachment and bag.  I have to control the moisture content of the charcoal between "dusty" and "muddy" but I can process 5 gallons in about 5 minutes.  The Toro has an aluminum fan blade that fractures any size of chunk into 3/8" or less.  The unburned pieces pile up behind the fan and you can hear the sound change.

Also, charcoal used for biochar ought to be burned at a low temp - around 600 to 700 degrees.  This leaves tars and petroleum behind.  Various bacteria and fungi feed on these.

I have adapted the TLUD stove (Top Lit, Up Draft) method to my charcoal making.  I burn wood in a vertical sided pit and keep adding wood to move the combustion layer upwards. This robs the lower wood of O2 and the residual heat bakes out the wood gases leaving charcoal.
I have been making 2 to 3 cu yards at a time, with 5 to 6 hour burns.

Don P

Cool, I'll try some through my sawmill blower and see what happens. It has a steel impeller I welded up and it can take a pretty good hit, not sure if it'll grind or just pass it through. I could install a screen above the blades so it can't eject above the screen size, not sure if that would work or just clog but its a easy starting place. Thanks for keeping the ideas flowing.

That's interesting about low temp and leaving hydrocarbons intact, that is the opposite of what I read... somewhere. That article was saying that the soil bacteria would clear it from the char with time but that it was not a good thing. I'm still at the open minded skeptic stage of learning. I'm hoping to get some passed around and played with.

With the recent cold snap we got into the charcoal slab pile the other day, we've all been blowing through the firewood this winter and it's early yet! There's still plenty of sawing to do there still though.

Just in case this works out, be thinking of doing this in a third world country to make cooking fuel and garden amendment and how to use that charcoal safely and efficiently in a simple tin can rocket type burner.

Al_Smith

I don't really set out to make charcoal by using a coking oven or retort of sorts .However if I rake the ashes of my slash pile after a burn I may have as much as a 5 gallon bucket full of lump charcoal.
I burn the slash from the top down so in theory the smoke wafts up through the flames and as such the ashes tend to cover the bottom of the pile where it burns up with a lack of oxygen  .Presto chango charcoal

Don P

That works for very small amounts of grilling charcoal but the rest went up in smoke and ash. I'm trying to look at it sort of like the butcher, those pigs ears and ham bones are another resource.

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