Adding a laser

[vfauto]

Has anyone added a laser to their sawmill and if so can you share your experience and pictures?

[Percy]

I have added the factory Woodmizer laser kit way back in 05. The stock laser is pretty much useless as it don't  have enough hormones to light up the blade path unless it's dark. I snagged a more powerful one ant it's much better. Some say the green ones are better. They are a time saver extraordinaire especially when cutting smaller logs.

[Kbeitz]

I tried it...It's so hard to find a place to mount it out of the way
and after you do mount it one little bump and it will need relined.
I did not trust it. 

[GAB]

Sneak a peek in BandMill Bandits gallery.
I think you will find what you are looking for there.
GAB

[DPatton]

In my construction experience with single and multi plane style lasers I would have to agree with what Percy said. The green lasers seem to show up better in most lighting conditions but when working in full daylight both the red or green ones I've been around have very limited working distances.

[Peter Drouin]

Save your $$$ and train your eye to see where to cut, Your eye will work in all light.

[moodnacreek]

Have two, both burned out and I won't buy anymore unless they get real cheap. I do have a shadow lite over the fixed blade on the edger. This is dependable and you turn it off when your done. The draw back is you can't have any sun lite in the mill building. Some times I make a crayon mark at the end of the plank at the shadow line before I let it go in [the edger] and hand guide it to make sure I get a straight cut. [ I edge 2, 2  1/2  and  3 inch hard wood often that will be used rough  not resawn .

[tmbrcruiser]

I added lasers to the edger and mill. On the edger I would never run with out them, on the mill my success has been so so. I purchased red for the mill and wish I would have gotten the green. Mounted the laser under the dust shoot and powered the laser with a series of 9 volt batteries. Everything works well early or late in the day, not so well in bright light.

[Pabene]

I have tested laser on my bandsaw mill. First I have to remind all about the risk for your eyes. In most mills the laser beam is in the same level as childrens eyes. For that reason it can be good to just light up the laser for each moment you need it.
A way to use an auto leveling laser at the mill is like this: Set up the laser on a tripod on the right side of the mill, with a posibillty to eysy raise and lower the laser. When a log is loaded on the mill, use the laser to adjust the log to the best position for the first cut. With a mark/line outside the saw, in the same level as the blade, you can then move the saw up or down so the mark will hit the the laser beam and then make the first cut.
That way is kind to the laser. No vibrations from the saw will destroy the laser. In my opinion the laser is very good, just to assist you to make the first cut right.

[Josef]

You might want to look at the apinex 50 mw line generator laser in green, I mounted one on my mill in 2016, still going strong, a few points needed addressing when adapting it to the mill, but it works great. Be careful though, at 50 mw it is visible in all but direct sunlight but will do damage to eyes. Probably the most useful mod I made to my old Timber Harvester mill.

Joe

[Darrel]

I have a red laser that I have never attempted to mount because I only use my mill outside during daylight hours doing mostly portable milling. If I ever get a saw shed built then maybe, however by that time my eye should be pretty well trained and the laser might just stay on the shelf.

[starmac]

At the risk of sounding dumber than a smoldering stump, what exactly do you use a laser mounted on a mill for?

[LeeB]

At the risk of sounding dumber than a smoldering stump, what exactly do you use a laser mounted on a mill for?

It's for people who can't see straight.  smiley_tom_dizzy01

[Chuck White]

If a laser is mounted on the mill and properly aligned, and bright enough, it will show the path that the band will travel!

Speeds things up a little, especially leveling the log and watching out for sawmill parts!

[Hackermatack]

If a laser is mounted on the mill and properly aligned, and bright enough, it will show the path that the band will travel!

Speeds things up a little, especially leveling the log and watching out for sawmill parts!

Thanks for that I was wondering myself. So the laser is aligned with the blade to show a line on the log where the blade will cut. I can see how that could be useful on the first cut. I am a fair weather miller probably won't work for me, I have a Harbor freight free with any purchase tape measure that gets me by.

[bandmiller2]

Lasers seem to work best if you are in a building, sunlight will wash them out. I have a good one mounted overhead for my circular saw. Pointing down it poses little threat to eyes. If a fella does a lot of milling your eye is just as good and faster. For the occasional sawyer they help. Po boy laser get a cheap laser level that will pivot with the dot lined up with the band. I can't see them being a great advantage on a band mill. Frank C.

[Josef]

I find it's most useful when leveling the pith, I try to always set the log with small end towards the head, raise the head to match the pith of the far end and use the toe board to raise the small end to the laser line to match it. Secondly, it's great to determine the opening cut to assure it will yield a board of your target width, and lastly it will reflect off the stops, to make sure they are low enough to prevent a strike.

It just gives someone anal like me who always questions if "it's right on" a visual cue to confirm the blades path, someday I'll have my eye calibrated well enough not to need the crutch, but I'm not there yet.

Joe

[Percy]

Ive had mine forever and when it did die, I went without for a couple years. I missed it. Where I found the laser especially helpful was with smaller logs where a difference of 1/4 inch blade height could make the difference between getting 3 pieces of 2x6 x16 instead of just 2. Also, I have a remote LT70 with 26 foot capacity.  Alot of walking to determine wether the blade is going to stay in the log on at that slight kink at the 18 foot mark.....unless you are using the laser.

Its easy to get by without one and its not nearly a big a deal when it quits compared to a debarker.....but mine has paid for itself many times over.

[PAmizerman]

I have a laser on my mill. IMO it has no down side. It definitely helps in log leveling. I don't do any measuring unless I have logs that I am centering the pitch on. I still edge on my mill and that is where the laser really speeds things up.

[MbfVA]

You might want to look at the apinex 50 mw line generator laser in green...
Joe

I looked on their website.  Would you be so kind as to tell us the model number you like so much, so we can look it up on the site. I love choices but that site is crazy with choices, and I was unable to get their search function to help.

[MbfVA]

My mill is a swing blade, and it is very hard to line up the blade for the first cut because of the way the mill is designed.   The machinery gets in the way.

Wondering if a rotating construction laser tactically positioned on a tripod beside the mill would be a workable solution?  Setworks mostly takes over once the first cut is done.

I am still hopng for a response on another thread as to whether not third party setworks can be adapted to swing blades like my Peterson.

I am not a huge fan of the rather odd freely rotating dial that Peterson uses. I think I would prefer an actual lumber scale such as on most of the band mills, in the absence of electronics setworks.

But even with setworks, it seems that first cut can also be challenging to line up on a band mill.

[Pabene]

I know a rotating laser would work good. Most of rotating lasers are "self leveling". That means you first have to level your mill. It is an easy task if you already have the laser. (The saw head has to travel the same way as the laser line.) The next to do is to make it easy to raise and lower the laser unit. I have a steel tube, mounted vertical to the wall, with a bracket for my laser. The bracket slides on the tube and hold the laser by friction. Some tripods has a pillar for the laser, as can be cranked up and down. Then you have to make a mark line outside the saw head in the same height as your blade.
Now you can adjust the log to best position for the first cut. The laser line is visible along the log and you can than lower the saw head so its mark also is on the laser line and cut.
If your mill has a swing blade it would be possible to have an other laser with a fix beam like such on edgers, to guide you for your vertical cut.

[MbfVA]

Thank you, well laid out procedure.

I am still fairly new with this machine, but I think that if I get the horizontal cut lined up & started correctly as to height, the vertical cut is pretty much set automatically when I come back in the "pull" direction.    I think that works backwards as well, that I could start with the blade vertical and thus also be right for the horizontal (push) cut.

I'm trying to get out to the mill at the farm this week, so I'll try out what you suggested.  I have a Leica rotating laser, which does both vertical and horizontal.  I could put white paper or a white board on the side of the saw  carriage for visibility with a mark for where the saw blade is.  I don't think I want to secure my laser target to the saw because of the vibration.

I have been mounting it on my Giotto photography tripod and it adjusts vertically.

I am up way too late here in the states, so I'm going to call it a night.

[Kbeitz]

For the people that's looking for a laser for a round blade saw....

You can buy a laser washer that goes under the nut that hold the
blade on. The laser turns on automatically when the blade spins.

Sample...

I have tried for an hour to get the hyper link thing to work...
I give up ...
Just type in (Bosch LS010 Miter Saw Laser Washer Guide) in Google
and you will see what I'm talking about.

[MbfVA]

Won't work on my Peterson WPF, sorry to say (blade is held on by a ring of bolts around the arbor, not a single center bolt).   If I could put it on there, it would get in the way of most 10 inch cuts.  I ran it past another thread where Ianab gave me the bad news.  Thanks anyway for the suggestion; maybe it will work on another brand, depending on the arbor.

I haven't tried it yet, but I'm optimistic about the tripod mounted laser level.   I do anticipate it being tricky to pick a spot for the laser where it shines on all the right places and none of the wrong ones, such glinting off the stainless steel frame uprights.  One big advantage: it will not be vibrating on/with the saw.   I recall someone saying that is the major reason why the Wood-mizer laser level accessory is so expensive (almost $1,000!).  Personally, I'd nominate the orange paint ;).

[Josef]

The Apinex unit I added to my mill is the 50 mW 90 degree green laser, from my ordering receipt this is what I ordered from Apinex early 2015

GM-CW02L <50mW Compact green laser module with line generator US$ 125.00
AC110-220-DC3 110/220, power supply adaptor, 3V US$ 17.50
HS-12 Heat sink 12mm US$ 17.50
Sub Total   US$ 160.00
Shipping (United States Express)   US$ 24.95
TOTAL   US$ 184.95

I ordered a spare shortly after this order, and the one weak point in the unit is where they attach the leads on the back of the module. They are soldered to a very small pc board, and are made from wire I'd equate to frogs hair gauge. To remedy the weak point that became evident after only a few hours operating with the vibrations of a sawmill head I added a terminal board just behind the unit to support the wires where they're tagged to heavier wire to the power supply. You can see it in this pic.



I used the heat sink block as an "adjustable base" it has 5 threaded holes, one center and at each corner, I clamp it with the center and pitch it with jack screws at each corner to fine tune the alignment. In full disclosure I had the first module fail after 1 week, they replaced it free and it has worked flawlessly since, over two years. In this pic you can see how bright it is.



I also aligned it so the outside edge of the visible beam is only 2 inches outside the working side of the mill to prevent someone inadvertently looking directly into the beam. The mounting bracket is fabbed to bolt directly to the head frame, slung under the blade wheel guard to extend it forward so the laser is out front but protected by the cage welded to the bracket. It's fabbed from really heavy angle so it would take a pretty good hit to dislodge it. It does get dust in the mount occasionally, I just blow it out with air. I'm sold on it and would find operating without it a distinct disadvantage.

Joe

please note I modified the above post to correct the fan angle of the laser module to 90 degrees.

[Pabene]

Josef, I like your instalation and the photos shows all very good. I started with a similar laser, without moving parts inside, because I think it will resist vibrations. Unforfunately it just had 45° wide beam so it could not reach over a long log. If the beam angle would been 60°, in my case, it would been good for me to. ( To wide beam results in less light intensity). I have the mill inside and have a big door open in one end. In my case I can see the laser line most of the time. When the sun, one hour in the mornings, can hit the log through the open door, I cant see the laser line. So, to perform a test of the laser you are going to buy, on your own mill, is my advise to all.

[Kbeitz]

Look into rotating mirrors. You can take a small mirror and glue
it on the shaft of a small motor and point the laser at the mirror
and it will project a straight line. This way the laser does not need
to be so big and powerful but it will project a very powerful line.

[MbfVA]

Josef, what kind of mill is yours on?  Band or swing blade?

[LeeB]

Look into rotating mirrors. You can take a small mirror and glue
it on the shaft of a small motor and point the laser at the mirror
and it will project a straight line. This way the laser does not need
to be so big and powerful but it will project a very powerful line.

More info please.

[Kbeitz]

One mirror makes a strait line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDvAilvoy6M

Add more mirrors and it gets goofy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28TYxk0dt5w

[LeeB]

Guess I'll have to wait until I get home to see what you are talking about. I can't view youtube over here at work. Blocked.

[petefrom bearswamp]

I second Peter Drouin's comment.

[Josef]

MbfVA, the mill is a Timber Harvester band mill, but I would think it would work on any mill that has a frame mounting point on the head solid enough to keep the module stable, keep in mind that a laser strong enough to be easily visible in strong sunlight will probably also be able to do damage to the eyes anyone foolish to look directly into the laser. At 50 mW this module falls into that category.

Joe

[Kbeitz]

MbfVA, the mill is a Timber Harvester band mill, but I would think it would work on any mill that has a frame mounting point on the head solid enough to keep the module stable, keep in mind that a laser strong enough to be easily visible in strong sunlight will probably also be able to do damage to the eyes anyone foolish to look directly into the laser. At 50 mW this module falls into that category.

Joe

Just 5mw will damage your eyes...

[tawilson]

I am finding this pretty handy.

[Ga Mtn Man]

Josef - Why did you choose the GM-CW02 laser over the BES532-L for $99?  Also, I noticed in the description for the mounting bracket BRH it states that "Laser diode modules are positive to the case...".  How did you get around that when mounting yours?

[tawilson]

Josef - Why did you choose the GM-CW02 laser over the BES532-L for $99?  Also, I noticed in the description for the mounting bracket BRH it states that "Laser diode modules are positive to the case...".  How did you get around that when mounting yours?
.

That's a good question that I wish I had asked. I ordered the GM-CW02 and immediately broke a wire off while mounting it. They made it right and suggested I get the 20mW AGLL2 that I'm using in my pic above. I want a little more beam down the log so ordered the 50mW BES532-L this morning. 50mW plus the specs say the beam is consistent across the entire width.
As far as isolating,  I wrapped the mounting block with electrical tape and it worked. I will come up with something a little more trustworthy when I get the new one.
I also just ordered a time relay to make sure it's off when I'm handling the lumber

[Josef]

Ga Mtn Man, I chose the GM-CW02 over the BES532-L for two reasons, first because of the wider fan angle, the 90 degree beam angle allows a "wider" beam width up closer to the module, a 60 degree beam angle restricts the width of the beam when the head is closer than 3 feet from the end of the log (I like to see the width of the opening cut on the end of the log). (Assuming it is aligned to illuminate over the length of the log). Second reason was the dia of the module, 12 mm vs 16 mm.

These two are the only green laser line generators Apinex has available in 50 mw. The green line generated by the 50mw is noticeably more robust than the 20mw units. Also the GM-CW02 unit has a projected beam "thickness" twice that of the BES532-L, 1.4mrad vs 0.6mrad making it appear "brighter" over the length of projection, again IMHO.

Positive to the case only means the module is clamped over its entire length. The BRH mounting bracket is probably not stable enough to withstand the vibrations of a saw head (IMHO) and the more stable heat sinks are all 12mm, too small for the BES532-L module.

In a previous thread I cautioned about the insufficient quality of the wire attachments of the GM-CW02, I used a terminal block a couple of inches behind the module to address the "movement" of the wires (which mimic frogs hair) after one of my modules had their leads break off in testing. Apinex did replace the unit.

The HS-12 heat sink is a comparatively substantial unit. It has 5 threaded mounting holes on the bottom, one at each corner and one in the middle. I use the four corner holes to "jack" the heat sink and angle it to align it, and then use the center hole to secure it to the base to clamp it down. I made my mounting base out of very heavy angle iron to minimize the effects of the vibration of the mill.

One caution I always bring up for anyone considering this mod is to be sure you align the laser so the fan angle never projects beyond the side of the mill that helpers work on, it only takes a moments intention on the part of a helper who mistakenly looks directly into a 50mw laser to potentially cause eye damage. Imagine how easy that would be with the saw head raised to saw that opening cut off the top of a log when it's closest to eye level of anyone standing within line with the laser beam.

All in all this was the most useful mod I made for my Timber Harvester mill. Quite a few hundred hours on it without problems, though I do realign it every spring, seem to shift about a quarter inch in a years time. I have it mounted outside of the head uprights so hitting something with it is "almost" impossible.

Joe

[Josef]

After rereading the previous post I must apologize for sounding like a broken record about the danger of potential damage from a 50mw laser, I know you're all very responsible builders and operators and I know how much I dislike being nagged about the obvious. Sorry,

Joe

[Bandmill Bandit]

I added the laser to my mill using woodmizer mounting hard ware and 90MW (i think) green laser. Its all in the usefull sawmill mods thread.

I installed an adjustable auto shutoff relay to my laser circuit so that the laser can not be left on by mistake.

I have it set to shut off in 5 seconds which is all I need to get the alignment set.  

[Ga Mtn Man]

Thanks for the thorough response Josef.  Your reasons for choosing that particular model make sense.  I'm still confused by the wording from the Apinex website though:

"Laser diode modules are positive to the case for optimal heat sinking. Do not mount metal brackets to the negative supply or negative earth without additional electrical isolation."

It sure sounds to me like they are saying the case of the module is hot.

[tawilson]

Apinex recommended I test the power supply voltage and while doing that I checked and the outer shell is indeed positive. 

[Josef]

Interesting, this is not a precaution I observed, my mounting is indeed electrically hard on the mill head frame, and the 12 volt system on the mill uses a frame ground, but the laser power supply is independent of the 12 volt system using a 120v step down transformer so I guess it is isolated electrically. I need to investigate further.

Joe

[Kbeitz]

Just put it in a plastic block... Drill a hole in plastic and split it in half and bolt it back together with the laser in the middle.

[tawilson]

Their mount is an aluminium block  with a set screw. Could do that out of plastic also I would think.  
Edit, I was just on Woodmizers site and their laser mounting block is listed as plastic. Looks like a split one like Kbeitz described.  Doesn't say what size but I ordered one.

[Bandmill Bandit]

My laser is the BES532-L  50mW from apinex.  I just looked up the part number to be sure.

Mounted in the wood mizer hard ware direct from wood mizer.

Added the momentary on/off relay and push button to activate the laser. Relay is adjustable to be normally open or closed and can be set from 2 seconds to several minutes on and then it shuts off. Mine set for normally open and 5 secs on when activated.  

The woodmizer laser and composite Laser mount (CE-305) comes from Cemar electro in Quebec. If I remember right you can get the ball that laser fits into in different hole sizes.

cemar electro . com 

[Josef]

Several years ago when I was looking into an aftermarket laser module I checked on the Cemar products, their pricing was several times that of the Apinex units, hence I went with Apinex. Looking at them again this morning it seems that the Cemar GM 850 is more in line with the Apinex units from what I found on Ebay. Specs are very comparative. I am going to add a laser to a homebuilt mill I'm working on for my SIL and requested a quote from Cemar to compare them. I'll pass on that info when I receive it.

Bandmill Bandit, could you share the manufacturer and part number of the momentary on off relay you used?

Joe

[Stuart Caruk]

I added a green line laser that I bought from Amazon. It's a  

Laserland
532nm 50mW Green Laser LINE Module Locator for Cutting Machine +adapter +mount

I've bought 3 of these now for various uses and they seem to work great. I mounted one on the wall by my edger so I can see the guide fence location when the fence is flipped up to edge live edge slabs. Back then they cost $28 with the mount. I see now that they run $35. 

[ladylake]

 I used to think I needed a lazar  but not anymore after sawing quite a bit.  Steve

[Kbeitz]

I added a green line laser that I bought from Amazon. It's a  

Laserland
532nm 50mW Green Laser LINE Module Locator for Cutting Machine +adapter +mount

I've bought 3 of these now for various uses and they seem to work great. I mounted one on the wall by my edger so I can see the guide fence location when the fence is flipped up to edge live edge slabs. Back then they cost $28 with the mount. I see now that they run $35.

Only $20.68 free shipping on E=bay...

[Bandmill Bandit]

I used to think I needed a lazar  but not anymore after sawing quite a bit.  Steve

That is what I thought too, till I used LT40 Super with a laser site. I'd put the productivity increase at about 10 to 15 percent so it was worth the the effort and cost to add the laser.
Having it makes those first cuts on each side much more accurate and reduces at least 2 cuts per log for me.

[tawilson]

4 months later my Lazer setup is still working fine. Another advantage I've found is I can sight down the blade and Lazer on the end of the cant to check clearance with the clamp.