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Author Topic: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?  (Read 3139 times)

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Offline celliott

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2017, 05:08:16 AM »
Definitely youíll want good tire chains and 4wd for whatever tows it, especially without the assist. I forgot they were that expensive but now I remember thatís a big part of why our farma was so affordable for a big trailer.

I donít know if this is possible with your group land ownership, but have you considered owning the trailer yourself and maybe renting the service of the trailer for when the others need to use it? Seems like it could solve some of the problems but probably introduce more too... just a thought, I know Iíd rather be sole owner on something like this. And sole operator...
Chris Elliott

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Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

Offline John Mc

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2017, 08:28:43 AM »
I donít know if this is possible with your group land ownership, but have you considered owning the trailer yourself and maybe renting the service of the trailer for when the others need to use it? Seems like it could solve some of the problems but probably introduce more too... just a thought, I know Iíd rather be sole owner on something like this. And sole operator...

The problem with renting is that you are now a commercial operation and can have significant liability if something goes wrong and someone get's hurt (including if they get hurt from their own ignorance or lack of familiarity). Even having someone sign a waiver  does not protect you - they can't waive their spouse or children's right to sue, or their medical insurance company's right to sue to recover costs (known as "right of subrogation"). This is one of the reasons companies renting equipment have major-league liability insurance policies. A co-owner is not held to the same standard.

Owning equipment as a group does require a different mode of thinking: "I'm letting someone else use my equipment" vs "I'm using our equipment." You do have to pick your partners carefully.

BTW, the co-owners on this would not be the same as the co-owners on the land. Three of the landowners would be in (including me). My forester (who also happens to be a good friend) and a couple of others so far. I still don't know if this will actually happen. The price tag may still scare enough people off that the attempt falls apart.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2017, 09:23:43 AM »
Does no one in this group have a welder? 

Find an old k30 or f350 dually dump, pull the cab and bed, make operator station up near the radiator, chain it up, weld the steer axle differential, sell the bed and weld on some bunks.  Pitch in to buy a crane and bypass rotary grapple together and run it off the trans PTO.  Transport it with a car trailer and pull all the 16 footers you want.  The guys with toyotas can man up and get real trucks.   Logging is heavy, if you wanna play logger youre gonna play heavy equipment too. 

Offline John Mc

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2017, 10:47:32 AM »
It's a nice concept, Mike, but there are plenty of people in our area with large equipment when we have that need. We are intentionally looking to go small and light here. None of us are interested in logging full time. This is for smaller jobs and going after the occasional trees which were blown down in a storm or grabbing a few trees for a special project - both situations where we don't want to open up the forest for larger equipment. Most of us are doing this sort of work on occasion now (not commercially), we're just interested in making it a bit easier to do and minimizing the distance we drag the trees, tearing up trails and loading the logs up with dirt

The guys with the small trucks got them small on purpose, not because they couldn't afford a larger one. They understand their usage will be limited in this application. Odds are, they'll call on one of us with a tractor to get the wood out to an area that is easier to reach with their truck, and they'll do the haul from there. The small truck use is sort of incidental to the whole project: they'll be used where the trails are good enough (and flat enough) to allow it to free up the tractor for the more difficult stuff.

There are folks doing this sort of thing with ATVs. In fact, there used to be a guy in the area from a 3rd generation logging family that left the business, then got back into it doing horse logging with a sideline of ATV logging. The ATV stuff in particular is more specialty work: he can reach places that larger equipment can't get to (at least not without some major trail work).

We're looking at a step bigger, without going "full-scale". Most of this is for personal use or for local specialty projects. My own current interest is in salvaging some nice red oaks that blew down in a windstorm. Not enough to interest someone to come in and do some commercial work, but some of it might get used as flooring in the tiny house my son is building. If I can make it easy for them to get at, a local mill will send their truck to pick it up and turn it in to flooring for us, but for them to send their crew in to pull out a dozen downed trees just doesn't make sense.

As we get further in to this, I'm thinking that our hope of pulling out 16 footers may be too ambitious - at least in most cases, and especially with the larger diameter hardwoods.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2017, 01:25:38 PM »
Its been a long time since i was around anyone with spare money, ive kinda forgotten those days. I guess when you have spare money and just want to do something because youd enjoy it, you just can.   Only people with spare money can consider a $15k trailer to get a few trees because economically its just preposterous.  But then again so are vacations.  Yet theres nothing wrong with vacations if you can afford them. 


I guess i get your goals now.  I think youre coming around to the idea .. But ill state it clearly.  If you want to mess around with a trailer load of wet 16' red oak thats big enough to get some lumber out of, youre talking crawler tractor power unit.  Even a big 4wd AG tractor will get pushed around by that load on anything with a side slope or hill.   

16' sticks are also gonna take a bigger road unless you have some really well designed trails and favorable terrain.   With compact tractors, I think an an arch up front and a skateboard dolley on back is how thatd have to be done, one stick at a time, to keep from digging up the trails.  If you cant lift one end of a log it just tears the heck out of a place and feels like it weighs 3x more. 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2017, 01:49:50 PM »
Btw, im not saying dont do it or dont have fun in the woods or anything like that.   I am all for that.  But if you need a community owned piece of equipment it means no one person has the cash for it or theyd buy it alone.  So from that perspective i say, go have your fun with what youve got.  I have done what youre talking about with stuff other people literally scrapped, and i have enjoyed building it just as much as working it.  Maybe even more.  Find some junk, whip something up with your buddies and drink beer.  Go try it, break it, drink more beer, change it and try to break it again. 















Offline John Mc

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2017, 01:58:19 PM »
Only people with spare money can consider a $15k trailer to get a few trees because economically its just preposterous.  But then again so are vacations.  Yet theres nothing wrong with vacations if you can afford them. 

I guess i get your goals now.

Well, you sort of get the goals. That's exactly why no one of us would buy the trailer. We simply don't have enough need of it to justify paying that kind of money. Some of us would use it a lot more than others, but none of us are in this full time. No way I could justify $15K for my own use, however, I could certainly justify $2,500.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline John Mc

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2017, 02:06:21 PM »
Btw, im not saying dont do it or dont have fun in the woods or anything like that.   I am all for that.  But if you need a community owned piece of equipment it means no one person has the cash for it or theyd buy it alone.  So from that perspective i say, go have your fun with what youve got.  I have done what youre talking about with stuff other people literally scrapped, and i have enjoyed building it just as much as working it.  Maybe even more.  Find some junk, whip something up with your buddies and drink beer.  Go try it, break it, drink more beer, change it and try to break it again.

Nice pics. Hard to believe that little thing is moving those logs.

At least two of those involved could afford to buy it, but that's not the same thing as justifying spending the money for their own individual use (and one of those with the $$ also has the least experience and least need. For him, it's just something for fun: "I want to make something out of this log that came form my own land", and he's hoping to learn a bit from the others involved). 5 or 6 of us could keep it busy and get enough out of it to have it make some sense.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline DDW_OR

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2017, 02:29:26 PM »


I agree that is amazing.

John Mc, i did a quick search on the Vermont craigslist and found some interesting items
use some of these searches
Logging
grapple -hay -bail
crane
hoist
hydraulic

set the price to 2 and 3500

FYI, i got into trouble linking to listings so that is why i did not.
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Offline DDW_OR

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2017, 02:48:47 PM »
saw this

Homemade skidders

this gave me the idea that a pickup could be converted to a small logging truck
TimberKing 2000 & Talon Sharpener, Mahindra 5520 4x4, Max22 4x4, Bobcat Excavator 331, E80, Multitek 1610EZ
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Online Skeans1

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2017, 03:24:16 PM »
Btw, im not saying dont do it or dont have fun in the woods or anything like that.   I am all for that.  But if you need a community owned piece of equipment it means no one person has the cash for it or theyd buy it alone.  So from that perspective i say, go have your fun with what youve got.  I have done what youre talking about with stuff other people literally scrapped, and i have enjoyed building it just as much as working it.  Maybe even more.  Find some junk, whip something up with your buddies and drink beer.  Go try it, break it, drink more beer, change it and try to break it again.

Nice pics. Hard to believe that little thing is moving those logs.

At least two of those involved could afford to buy it, but that's not the same thing as justifying spending the money for their own individual use (and one of those with the $$ also has the least experience and least need. For him, it's just something for fun: "I want to make something out of this log that came form my own land", and he's hoping to learn a bit from the others involved). 5 or 6 of us could keep it busy and get enough out of it to have it make some sense.
Just a quick question how large of logs are you expecting to pickup, as well as how much weight are you going to pack? Only reason I ask we have a Farmi forwarder trailer that we've used here and there to do road clean ups ect with on a 90 horse Deere tractor it's no forwarder or shovel to put it nicely does it work for light stuff yes, now to the bad the brakes being hydraulic on ours are a pain they're either locked up or you free wheel, then the turning tongue has its place but most of the time it's pain, the loader is on the light side and the landing gear love to sink they need wider pads.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2017, 05:07:17 PM »
That poor little JD.  :o
Need to shorten up a truck for it to really shine in the works,getting a truck turned around in the woods ssome room.
There is a guy just a few miles from me that shorten up a Ford truck,for a plow truck. The rear tires are just about 3 feet behind the cab. I stopped in to see how he did it. I forgot now,but it survived last winter.
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Offline Puffergas

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2017, 06:53:35 PM »
Make it yourself.



This winter I'll convert it to a forwarder. It runs on charcoal, that is what the tanks are for.

Maybe you need a portable mill, swing or chain.

Get a light weight trailer or build one. Use a winch to load in the woods. Then use a road machine to deliver it. Keep your cash for something that will not loose value.
Jeff
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Offline gspren

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2017, 07:13:10 PM »
 I think a good (log rite) log arch would be enough for occasional log retrieval.
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Offline John Mc

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2017, 07:21:44 PM »
Just a quick question how large of logs are you expecting to pickup, as well as how much weight are you going to pack?

We're hoping to be able to haul 5000# or so, but some of the tow vehicles probably won't be able to handle that in the rougher terrain, so they'll be using a lighter load (or waiting for someone with a more capable vehicle to do the pulling). I suspect the log size will be limited by the loader capacity. On these smaller trailers, you can only pick up 1000 - 1500# depending on which one we get.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline John Mc

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2017, 08:15:16 PM »
Puffergas - finding a trailer and setting it up for parbuckling or using a DanG Deadheader log lifter is still in the running. If we go that way, I'll probably just own it myself or with one of the guys who are in the landowner group. Just trying to consider all the options before we decide.

gspren - We've already got access to an arch (well, some of us do). We're looking for a step up from an arch for the times we have more volume to move

If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Online Skeans1

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2017, 11:34:14 PM »
Just a quick question how large of logs are you expecting to pickup, as well as how much weight are you going to pack?

We're hoping to be able to haul 5000# or so, but some of the tow vehicles probably won't be able to handle that in the rougher terrain, so they'll be using a lighter load (or waiting for someone with a more capable vehicle to do the pulling). I suspect the log size will be limited by the loader capacity. On these smaller trailers, you can only pick up 1000 - 1500# depending on which one we get.
I'll look around at the elima film there was a perfect machine for your application I'm not sure of the price but if I find it I'll post the video.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2017, 07:39:13 AM »
Alstor maybe?

Offline roger 4400

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2017, 08:44:31 AM »
John, if you want go on my photo gallery and have a look what we could log with an ATV. on a very hilly trails.
21,000 board feet of wood, to build our house. The largest was a spruce 21 in. wide, 17 ft long......we also got some oak 17 ft long 25 to 30 in. wide...that were log with a D6 bulldozer  :D
Good luck
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Offline John Mc

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Re: Compact tractor sized forwarding trailer?
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2017, 08:55:00 AM »
Mike & Skeans1

Is this what you are talking about?





Looks like a great machine, but the price SK550,000 (Swedish Krona) amounts to over US$65,000. A good bit out of out range.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow


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