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Author Topic: Logging equipment  (Read 4871 times)

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Offline starmac

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2017, 05:17:50 PM »
I am curious, on jobs such as the 1/4 acre job you are currently on, do you have to do anything with the tops or cut down any unmarketable wood??
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2017, 07:09:25 PM »
If u want to full time it forget the tractor. If the wood lots your buying will alow tree length then your cheapest highest production machine using a chainsaw to fell is a cable skidder. Ctl is exspenise to buy. You need to google some of these terms and Google southern logging.

Offline luvmexfood

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2017, 07:48:12 PM »
I do some logging here on the farm using a tractor. Without a doubt a winch would be the first addition. Make sure you have a good saw. I started using what I had. An older stihl 029. Gnawed on a lot of larger trees getting them down and it was a booger to start. Last straw was when I geared up one morning, carried everything down in the woods and it would't start. Went saw shopping without a lot of money. Bought an Echo 590. What a difference. Cut a  30dbh hard maple down in less time than I would have cut the face cut with the stihl. Still not a pro saw but a good step up for part time use. If I could, I would kick my own rear for not getting a bigger saw when I started.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

Offline dirthawger

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2017, 10:45:08 PM »
yea ill have to google CTL and slasher and southern logging. But i talked to a couple small loggers in my area and they charge the land owner 50-100 a tree to cut it down. But i was hoping to offer my sawmill service along with logging. But yes a loader is definitely a must have for me,  im hauling with my 1 ton and will need a bigger trailer cause i can only haul 5 tons but saw timber where im selling goes for $48 a ton and $22 a ton for pulp

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2017, 11:00:17 PM »
Charging a land owner per tree is the tree removal business.  Logging is paying a landowner for a tree.  Stay on the side youre on for now.. until you can grade a standing tree in winter from 50feet. 

 youve got a stump grinder and a sawmill.   a bucket truck and a chipper will complete the package and get you a lot of work.  Bring the nice logs home to your sawmill.  You can parbuckle them onto the trailer if you have to.   

Timber markets as well as the stock markets are in bubbles right now.  A downturn is overdue and when it comes a lot of outfits will go belly up.  Thats when you should consider buying into logging equipment.  Even at firesale prices, CTL harvester logging takes a CDL and $100k.  The proceeds from a typical used stump grinder might buy you a few saws. 

What model tractor do you have?  Front loader?  4wd?  3 point hitch?
Revelation 3:20

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2017, 11:49:22 PM »
im hauling with my 1 ton and will need a bigger trailer cause i can only haul 5 tons but saw timber where im selling goes for $48 a ton and $22 a ton for pulp


These 4 stems...  $30



That single stem... $210




$109 load of white oak pulp, probably 40 to 50 stems



$1500 load of white oak stave.  14 logs



Note that there are 4x more stems to handle and 1/4 of the money in low grade.  Also those are prices paid at mill with no split.  Imagine sharing half your pulp money with land owner. 

I have a 2ton truck and 30 feet of flat deck thatll move 10ton of wood without breaking (not legally but itll do it)

My 1975 era logging operation can barely make $80 a day hand cutting pulp alone.  After fuel, oil leaks, saw chain and lunch, its an exhausting way to break even.  God forbid a machine breaks, which they always do.

I could make $80 a day with a lot less labor and iron just working at lowes.  And actually have health insurance without really needing it


 


The lower the grade and diameter of timber, the more critical production speed - and in a lot of ways, luck -becomes.  I really am trying to be helpful to you, not just discouraging.







Revelation 3:20

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2017, 12:04:23 AM »
Man that kind of money I wouldn't start a saw for honestly our low price for 36' right now is 800 per thousand and almost a grand for decent export. Highest value timber I've cut was 1500 a thousand for poles. How do you guys make it over there?

Offline starmac

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2017, 12:25:37 AM »
When we had a pulp market it was 50, I was hauling 30 tons, when the price dropped to 40, the loggers quit loading it and just left it in the woods. Now we have no market at all, so it stays in the woods except for what little gets hauled out for firewood.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2017, 03:15:57 AM »
Even dirthawgers prices are horrible. Loggers here squeal if the pulp hits $40 a ton.

Offline Firewoodjoe

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2017, 03:18:44 AM »
Cuts the mills Stumpage and they'll pay about $28 a ton to produce and truck it.

Offline dirthawger

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2017, 08:47:27 AM »
Guess i shouldve explained a tad better.  Im not looking to log like y'all do, like y'all have said what im going to do is more like tree service but i was looking for ways to be more effecient because ill still be skidding and loading logs but i think a log loader is what i need maybe even one with a slasher. Id have to quit my job and go all in to make money doing what y'all do, maybe one day but im not prepared for that yet.

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2017, 09:07:05 AM »
Can I ask real quick are you mechanical? Are you planning on hauling tree length? A log loader either a knuckle boom or a full blown shovel like we run up here is only good if you can get it to the job. There's a thought a forwarder it takes the place of two machines yarding is do able as well as loading trucks.

Offline Bogue Chitto

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2017, 09:09:33 AM »
 

  

  

  John Deere tractor with logging tongs and loader.  Works well for my second job.   

Offline Bogue Chitto

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2017, 09:12:38 AM »
 

  Logs hauled out with tractor.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2017, 10:38:57 AM »
but i was looking for ways to be more effecient because ill still be skidding and loading logs


I guess the biggest distinctions between logging and tree removal other than who pays who, is gonna be 1. how far are you dragging them and 2. What is done with the tops. 

If you can leave the tops out in the woods but have to skid em pretty far,  your most efficient first step will probably be a skidder.   Loading efficiently is the next biggest challenge but if you cant get them to the truck you dont need to worry about that yet.  If you can skid fast, and its good timber, you can survive by parbuckling at first.
   A mid sized self powered knuckleboom log loader crane mounted on a trailer that can load itself and the truck its hooked to is my advice for a one piece must do all unit to get started.  This way your cousin can be driving a load to the mill while you are still skidding and sorting back at the job. Efficient use of time is critical to have made any money by dark.

 If you are in clay country i would start with a 6way dozer or drott loader as the skid machine.  Roads and drainage are critical for winter logging in southern clay.  Dozers achilles heel is speed.  Just dont go after really spread out jobs, work compact sites.  I get my trees by building ponds. Crawler loaders are slow and clumsy but cheap and strong.  Steep pulp, forget it.  But big fencerow oaks on mild terrain, yeah they can do well.  The only thing more valuable than a fat log is a long fat long.  Which is hardest to skid and load.  Thats where a crawler loader can make sense.  When one tree pays a grand.  But ya gotta be CDL to move any of this stuff.


Going back to that fork in the road.  If your customers have small lots with short distance from stump to street, and especially if tops must be cleaned up.. then a skidder isnt your best first expenditure, its a big tracked bobcat with a grapple.  Not the ideal logging machine but it is the ideal machine for a general contractor starting out and hungry to make money however it comes.    The stump grinder you have is a good component to hang onto for a while longer.

Youve not described your tractor yet.  You may have a good machine to add attachments to already.

If you dont have a CDL start thinking about it.  Logs are heavy.  You cant make good money unless you are hauling CDL weights.  There arent enough hours in the day or fuel in the tank to haul in 3 loads when it coulda been one.    If you get a CDL and hard times hit your logging operation, poof, log and dump driving jobs grow on trees.  Can be the difference between losing your equipment and keeping it.  Plus you get way more leads on cheap iron when youre in with the local crowd. A driving job can be a big springboard.  Youll learn which mills play scaling tricks before you haul your logs in. 
Revelation 3:20

Offline dirthawger

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2017, 04:57:15 PM »
As far as my tractor goes its a mahindra 4530 44 hp 4wd with FEL. Plenty strong but im not doing another job until i get a grapple for the front and back.  I also have my CDL but not sure if its still valid. My license expires next year but i haven't had a dot physical in a few years nor have i drove a big rig so i may not have it anymore.  I've been leaning towards a loader is a definite must. Right now I believe we are CTL. We cut the trees down and then cut them up 16'6".

Offline enigmaT120

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2017, 05:24:23 PM »
Man that kind of money I wouldn't start a saw for honestly our low price for 36' right now is 800 per thousand and almost a grand for decent export. Highest value timber I've cut was 1500 a thousand for poles. How do you guys make it over there?

Don't torment them...  And didn't you cut some western red cedar?  I've seen some high prices for that but I don't know who was paying them.  And I'm bummed that ODF is no longer posting the quarterly timber price averages.  Is there another site for our area's average prices?
Ed Miller
Falls City, Or

Offline starmac

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2017, 05:43:48 PM »
If you have a cdl but have not kept your medical card up, it has been suspended, BUT, you can take a physical from a dot approved provider and register it with the dmv (the doctor can't do this) but you can do it online and get your license reinstated online.
I would make this a priority before your license expires. Hauling by the ton at the prices you have posted, I do not see a way to stay under cdl and make wages, myself. 
You can have skidders, feler bunchers, danglehead processors, log shovels, all paid for, if you can not get enough product to market, it just amounts to a bunch of iron.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline chep

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2017, 06:11:09 PM »
If you are already cutting to length you should consider a smaller 6 wheel forwarder. 12 ton capacity. Move wood, and even better move brush and tops. Pile for burning or wildlife. Also can load trucks etc. In my opinion it's the most versatile logging machine out there. No bumper trees landowners love them.  Find a lowbed co that will haul it for you anywhere. Should be 300 $ per move as long as it's not to far. Find one that's not whipped for under 75k. It would set you apart big-time from skidder loggers to find the niche you are looking for
My 2 cents

Offline TKehl

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Re: Logging equipment
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2017, 07:08:00 PM »
My setup is moving toward this:  4wd tractor with loader and grapple on front, log winch on back, and a couple few trailers that can be pulled with the tractor in the woods (receiver hitch on winch) and switched to truck on better roads.  Trailers will be pintle hitch and tounge heavy enough so they can be unhooked and rehooked without getting off the tractor using the 3 point.

I'd love to have a grapple trailer as well someday.

Versatile as I already have tractors and trucks with multiple uses.  Fewer engines to maintain and they are paid for.  Should be pretty good within a half hour of home and I only do it part time.  Plenty of properties that fit that bill for me.

I'll also add that one of the local loggers I know just bought a tracked skid steer and loves it.  He chases Walnut, veneer, and stave pretty hard though.  Low grade for him is big Sycamore or Red Oak.   ;)  He is a full time operation and does some dirt work to. 
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.


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