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Black Walnut Logs

Started by D6c, December 22, 2017, 12:24:54 PM

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D6c

My brother has been doing land clearing on some bottom ground and an old railroad ROW that runs across it.  He had a logger come in and buy the better walnuts and some white oak.  I don't know what their minimum size is, but it looks like it might be around 18", so there was a lot left they weren't interested in.
I did some dozer work for my brother to strip the topsoil from the ROW (abandoned since the 1950's).  He plans on hauling off the clay from the RR bed (about 1/8 mile long) to level the bottom ground into one continuous field.  He'll stockpile the clay for use as a pond dam behind his house later. 

He didn't want the walnut to go to waste so he gave me what was left, plus some burr oak and cottonwood.  Some of the burr oak will go for trailer decking for my brother's lowboy.  Because there were a lot of small / med. size trees I ended up with a lot of logs, some of which I was surprised the logger didn't want.  By the time I get them cut into manageable lengths for the sawmill it looks like I'll end up with something over 200 individual logs....some small and short but there will still be some wood in them.

As I've said before, I'm just getting started sawing, and I don't have a ready market for the lumber.  This is a windfall of logs for me....and a large task.
The weather has just turned cold here, but I'm thinking I should spend part of the winter sawing and stacking lumber to air dry, and part of the winter building a solar kiln.

Any advice on sawing these would be welcome.  From what I read most woodworkers prefer their 4/4 lumber cut around 1 1/8" to allow for shrink and cleanup....sound about right?
Any advice on how much of it should be cut to thicker size? 
At any rate I'm going to have piles of lumber by the time I get done.  I've started building some pallets to air dry it on.  So far they look like they'll work out pretty well.  I'm covering the stacks with pole barn siding.  The problem will soon be where to store it all.

I don't have 10% of the stickers that will be required to stack it all.  I've made some by ripping store-bought 1 x 3's (3/4 square) but I don't know if there will be problems with using these on the walnut.  I've seen pics of stickers that have diagonal ribs milled across them.  Are these commercially made stickers?....They look nice but have no idea how pricey they might be.
Part of the logs have been coated with anchorseal and I just got another 5 gal.to seal the rest as it's going to be a while getting these sawed.



  

  

  

  

  

 

TKehl

Nice haul!!!

That walnut will hold for a while.  May want to leave some of them as logs and cut them as sold.  Always seems like customers want a whole bunch of something I don't have.   ;)

Any old stickers will be fine for Walnut.  The fluted ones are good for things like Maple and Cottonwood that sticker stain.   That leads to asking what you plan to do with the Cottonwood?  If some staining doesn't matter, then neither do the sticker type.  If you want it to stay pretty and white, could be worth looking into.  If it will be barn siding, then slap it up green and don't worry about it.   :)

Walnut will air dry nicely reducing the time in the kiln.  The barn tin covers work good.  Just make sure the pallets are strong enough to hold the weight of the boards flat.

Oh, and it looks like some of that would have nice gun stock blanks in the crotches.  Worth looking into.
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

D6c

Quote from: TKehl on December 22, 2017, 02:02:17 PM
Nice haul!!!

That walnut will hold for a while.  May want to leave some of them as logs and cut them as sold.  Always seems like customers want a whole bunch of something I don't have.   ;)

Any old stickers will be fine for Walnut.  The fluted ones are good for things like Maple and Cottonwood that sticker stain.   That leads to asking what you plan to do with the Cottonwood?  If some staining doesn't matter, then neither do the sticker type.  If you want it to stay pretty and white, could be worth looking into.  If it will be barn siding, then slap it up green and don't worry about it.   :)

Walnut will air dry nicely reducing the time in the kiln.  The barn tin covers work good.  Just make sure the pallets are strong enough to hold the weight of the boards flat.

Oh, and it looks like some of that would have nice gun stock blanks in the crotches.  Worth looking into.

Not sure what I'll use the cottonwood for...the last one I had I quarter sawed up for decking on pallet rack.

It had occurred to me there might be few gun stocks in them.  There are a couple with burl bulges but I'm not sure how a stock blank should be sawed.  Which way should a stock be oriented in the log?

TKehl

In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

D6c

Quote from: TKehl on December 22, 2017, 05:36:12 PM
I'm still learning.  I'll refer you to people that know this stuff well.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,66491.msg994525.html#msg994525

Thanks for that link....looks like real good info for stock blanks.

Ianab

Maybe saw some of the cottonwood up first, dry it couple of months, and it will be dry enough to use as stickers for the Walnut, which will last a long time in log form.

Certainly looks like there is plenty of good stuff left in the rejects. Commercial mills aren't interested in crotch wood, and short logs won't produce boards that fit in the grading rules, but can still be sold to woodworkers etc.  You don't need 8' boards if you are only making a 6' table etc.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Crossroads

Looks like a nice pile of walnut!!
With the right fulcrum and enough leverage, you can move the world!

2017 LT40 wide, BMS250 and BMT250,036 stihl, 2001 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins, l8000 Ford dump truck, hr16 Terex excavator, Valley je 2x24 edger, Gehl ctl65 skid steer, JD350c dozer

WV Sawmiller

   Good on you. Don't overlook those little firewood lengths with the hollow spots. I cut some like take that into 2"-3" cookies and painted both sides with anchorseal and they held up pretty good. I have sold a few to people for crafts and such. Some wanted to make end tables and such out of them I think they were about 23" wide. The hole in the center seems to help relieve the stress and they are not as bad to crack as a solid piece.

   On my mill I just clamp them directly in the movable hydraulic clamps, set my simpleset and start slicing. Be careful and don't drop them as they are somewhat fragile but turn out to be some pretty pieces.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

nativewolf

My goodness they did leave a bit of money.  However, lots of loggers don't really understand the walnut market.  Sadly.

We cleaned up after a high grade and they left $28k in walnut in 35 trees.  Crazy.

I can assure you that you have some quite salable walnut there.  As others have said it will keep, just seal the ends if you can.  If not, you'll just trim them a bit more.  If you get to a crotch, save those they make neat flame gun stocks.

In those pictures it looks like the crotch wood is missing?  Hope you didn't leave them behind in the burn pile.

Liking Walnut

ToddsPoint

Quote from: TKehl on December 22, 2017, 05:36:12 PM
I'm still learning.  I'll refer you to people that know this stuff well.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,66491.msg994525.html#msg994525

I'm the one who wrote that tutorial and passed it to Jim Rogers to post here on the forum.  If you need help laying out walnut for gunstock blanks PM me and I can probably help you.  Gary
Logosol M7, Stihl 660 and 290, Kubota L3901.

D6c

Quote from: ToddsPoint on December 23, 2017, 04:53:47 AM
Quote from: TKehl on December 22, 2017, 05:36:12 PM
I'm still learning.  I'll refer you to people that know this stuff well.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,66491.msg994525.html#msg994525

I'm the one who wrote that tutorial and passed it to Jim Rogers to post here on the forum.  If you need help laying out walnut for gunstock blanks PM me and I can probably help you.  Gary

Thanks,
When I get to sawing crotch wood I might have a few questions

Brad_bb

Although I have an alaskan mill, I'm saving up my crotches to take to a guy with a Petersen slabbing mill to slab them all at once.  He's much faster and more efficient.  If your crotches are too big for your mill, think about that.  It would be a lot of hassle to set up to slab short crotches for me.

Get your logs on bunks - some small diameter long logs or timbers to space them 6 inches off the ground at least.  Seal the ends, and walnut like that will wait a long time.  You'll have plenty of time to mill it.

Don't leave good wood at the site.  You got some good saw stuff, but don't discount small diameter and curved walnut.  I saw 6"-16" dia curved pieces, don't have to curved too much, for timberframe brace stock 6-8 feet long(PM me if you want specifics on how to do this and how to prep the live edge).  I use small dia 4"-6" long branches for railings.  Cut them flat on two sides.  Keep the top side live edge and de-bark.  Smaller pieces with interesting curves are good for furniture as legs or part of tops etc.  They can be used whole or sawn on two sides, maybe split down the middle for two matched pieces.  Smaller crooked branches can be used for balusters- de-barked preferably.  I let very little go to waste/firewood.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

GAB

In the picture with the Farmall one of the logs appears to have a bow to it.
If it was my log I would consider sawing it into 2-1/2" thick slabs for benches around a fire pit.
A slab with 3 17" blocks makes a good bench.
Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

D6c

Quote from: Brad_bb on December 23, 2017, 08:16:58 PM
Although I have an alaskan mill, I'm saving up my crotches to take to a guy with a Petersen slabbing mill to slab them all at once.  He's much faster and more efficient.  If your crotches are too big for your mill, think about that.  It would be a lot of hassle to set up to slab short crotches for me.

Get your logs on bunks - some small diameter long logs or timbers to space them 6 inches off the ground at least.  Seal the ends, and walnut like that will wait a long time.  You'll have plenty of time to mill it.

Don't leave good wood at the site.  You got some good saw stuff, but don't discount small diameter and curved walnut.  I saw 6"-16" dia curved pieces, don't have to curved too much, for timberframe brace stock 6-8 feet long(PM me if you want specifics on how to do this and how to prep the live edge).  I use small dia 4"-6" long branches for railings.  Cut them flat on two sides.  Keep the top side live edge and de-bark.  Smaller pieces with interesting curves are good for furniture as legs or part of tops etc.  They can be used whole or sawn on two sides, maybe split down the middle for two matched pieces.  Smaller crooked branches can be used for balusters- de-barked preferably.  I let very little go to waste/firewood.

I've got some old power poles I'll use to get them up off the ground.  Just didn't have time to sort & pile them when I was hauling.  I did get the ends sealed just before it turned cold and snowed.

It was kind of a hurry up deal getting out what I could. He was in a hurry to clear up the field, get the brush burned and do some tillage before the weather turned.  There was no doubt more that could have been salvaged but it's all smoke now.
I have no experience with timber framing or furniture building for that matter.  From looking at your gallery you do some nice timber framing.  It would be interesting to try my hand at it, although I'm guessing there's quite a learning curve.  I have plenty of old osage that was planted in the 1930's.....Hmmm, I do need a saw shed.

WV Sawmiller

   I had posted earlier about a couple of dead walnuts on the stump I have on my place. Right now I know of a 3 about 14-15 inches at the base and one about 20-22 inches. Today while trying to train my rat terrier to become a squirrel dog I came across another one that fell in an ice storm 10-15 years ago but it looks to still be rock solid. I will either get some long cables and snatch blocks and pull it out or if I get enough logs to move I may get my mule skinner friend to come back for a one day job moving them out of the woods into the pasture for me and I can move them with the tractor then.

   I have a friend who has a big one in his yard he cut last spring. It is about 30-36 inches in diameter and 10' long. I tried to get it out for him but we got it hung in his ditch and could not pull it out. He has since gotten it free and I may try to get it loaded on a trailer and haul over to the next county to a sawyer with a slabber and get it cut into 3" live edge slabs. I think he gets 50 cents/bf for slabbing and it could take years to sell it all  but one good slab would pay for sawing and the rest would pretty much be profit.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Brad_bb

I found a dead walnut on the stump while cleaning a fencerow this fall.  It looked like rotted junk and the other guy working with the was going to cut it up.  I said NOOOOO!  So i had him cut it for a 12 foot trunk and the two upper branches.  I cut the trunk into and 8X10 and the heartwood was perfectly find.  I sawed the branches on two sides for organic pieces.  The sapwood was compromised and we used draw knives and removed the majority of the sapwood and ended up with perfectly fine pieces.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

WV Sawmiller

   I'm with Gerald on the curved logs being cut into live edge slabs for benches. I cut mine 8/4 and put mortise and tenon legs on them, cut off the excess tenon length then put them upside down on the mill, clamp, spread the blade guides wide and cut at 17". When finishing I sand them and rub with tung oil.

   The uglier the log the prettier the bench no matter what design you use for the legs. Caution - if you have too much bend you may need to put an extra leg in the middle of the bend or they may be off-center and want to tip over backwards. (Don't ask me how I learned that. ;D)
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

 

 
Who would ever use curved slabs for benches??   :o
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

moodnacreek

To me, getting them off the ground is a waste of time as it only dries them quicker and warms them.  Green logs are the opposite of lumber that must be off the ground.

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: moodnacreek on January 02, 2018, 01:23:17 PM
To me, getting them off the ground is a waste of time as it only dries them quicker and warms them.  Green logs are the opposite of lumber that must be off the ground.
?????

   Discussed before. My logs rot when I leave them on the ground, especially softwood and soft hardwood.

    Only reason I leave logs (other than very durable logs like WO, Locust or Walnut) on the ground is laziness/neglect, I know I will saw them in the every near future or I want them to spalt and that is a fine line between the neat color lines and rotting.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

moodnacreek

W. V.  Just finished sawing and stacking 4 m of black walnut that's been here since April. The most deterioration was on the top [of pile] logs. The ones in the mud where the best. I do like to put fire wood logs on runners.  When I started in 1980 I put saw logs off the ground like people say but I learned and share it here when I get tired.

WV Sawmiller

   As I mentioned earlier I do not always worry about stacking high durability logs which includes WO, Locust and Black walnut off the ground.

   I do not recommend anyone storing softwoods (Pine, spruce, etc) or soft hardwoods (Poplar, maple, etc ) and even red oak or other hardwoods that are more susceptible to rot and insect damage directly on the ground.

   If you walk through the woods and find one of these less durable trees on the ground that has been there a while there is a good chance it is soft, punky and worthless while a few feet away the same species of tree that fell in such a manner it is off the ground due to a big root ball, fell across a drainage or across another tree there is a good likelihood  the wood will be solid and fit to saw. Just take a stroll through the woods and see if that does not hold true in New York as it does in WV.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Brad_bb

Quote from: moodnacreek on January 02, 2018, 01:23:17 PM
To me, getting them off the ground is a waste of time as it only dries them quicker and warms them.  Green logs are the opposite of lumber that must be off the ground.

Any logs I've ever had on the ground collect moisture on the bottom and left too long will start to rot.  We're talking about grass or dirt or gravel.  I have a large concrete pad that I put logs on that is well drained (water never sits on it), in the sun, and exposed to wind.  i don't have that issue on that pad.  But on grass or dirt especially, moisture will wick onto the log, or collect from rain - it will never dry out. 
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

WV Sawmiller

Brad,

   X2 in my experience.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

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