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Author Topic: Question for the CTL guys.  (Read 2541 times)

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Offline BargeMonkey

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Question for the CTL guys.
« on: December 29, 2017, 01:05:13 AM »
 Saturday morning I'm headed to VT to look at this. Other than welds and cracks what else on a dangle head do you look for ? Anyone ever been around one ? I've been told the 711 was kind of a prototype and expensive being Cat. 7000hrs, originally owned by a company down by the PA border when they where doing the pipeline work.
 

 
 

 
 

 
 The guy bought it from Cat, hasn't worked much, he bought a Ponsse rubber harvester. Has the books, supposedly the computer works right. Same finals as my Timbco, Cat C-7 engine, has a fire system. I think the guys in ME/NH have it figured out with working behind a buncher, that's my plan with this machine, wondering if there's anything special on the head to check ?

Offline Riwaka

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2017, 05:19:08 AM »
LogMax's spare part time span policy is 10 years according to this.
http://www.logmax.com/en/service-support/spare-parts
Have a look at a few machines (JD, tigercat,etc) of the same age and hours to allow a valid comparison of 'value'.
https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/12090251/2011-tigercat-h822c

Are the 711's specs around to know how heavy a head it can handle (pump volume/ pressure to run the head etc? to know what alternative heads are options.(ponsse, tigercat -too heavy, waratah, newer logmax, rolly2 etc) http://www.swedcan.com/Logmax.php   newer 6000B  http://www.logmax.com/en/products/6000b
I gues you are aware of the C7's real world history.

Offline bushmechanic

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2017, 05:32:59 AM »
Hey Barge that head is a Logmax, no problems there, well other than the broken upper knife. If they have the other piece it's no problem to weld back on, but it most likely got lost in the bush. I can't speak on the carrier but if it's Cat it's bound to be expensive. Check the bushings on all the moving parts that can get pricey. Make sure that it measures by turning on the computer and rolling the measuring wheel both ways. Those are nice simple heads, easy to work on and they work good but not a hardwood head. I used a 5000 for the past two years, I was really impressed with it. It you decide to get it keep me in mind if you have any questions with it. We never had any problems getting parts for our 20 year old head and was actually in stock in Moncton NB, way better than John Deere here. Everything at Deere had to be ordered and for some reason one part was always at the Milan warehouse. 

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2017, 09:01:44 AM »
Make sure you can still get the parts for the carrier even cat is like Deere/Waratah or Komatsu/Logmax for parts anything built after 10 years well to them scrap. Being that age that 750 should be 24 wire correct? You might call and ask on a price of a computer ahead of time just to get an idea of what they run.

Offline allaboutsawdust

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2017, 09:04:12 AM »
Barge I can't help you on the carrier much but there are a couple things I would look for on the head. Other than the obvious stress cracks it can be a good idea to pull the cover off of the front of the feed wheels to check the gear lube in the wheel planetaries.  If that has not been kept up with you can spend a lot of money on planetarie parts in a hurry. Also on that 750 head the measuring system can be a PITA. The measuring wheel arm pivots at the bottom, instead of the top like the new 7000 series head, giving you a little less traveling distance for accurate measuring and leaving it more susceptible to getting hit with rough spots on the log when feeding it through the head. I have been happy with the 750 head on my Rottne but that measuring system has been a weak link. If that is a 400 computer the technology is a little obsolete now but they are pretty much a bullet proof. I have had good luck with the 400 computer, Logmax made them fairly simple to understand and troubleshoot when you do have problems.
A father son cut to length team with a '00 rottne smv harvester, '89 and '99 rottne rapid forwarder, '74 664 clark ranger skidder, '86 ford one ton that hauls 100 plus cords of firewood a year along with a couple thousand taps worth of sap.

Offline snowstorm

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2017, 10:18:30 AM »
if it has 24 wires i would look for another machine. could you buy a new computer for 10k?

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2017, 10:25:34 AM »
Man, its crazy that these things come with 30yr price tags and only 10yrs of parts support.  Seems like a trap.
Revelation 3:20

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2017, 10:28:46 AM »
..but you need a water pump for your turdbox 1966 volkswagen beetle.. JCwhitney and rock auto will swordfight for your $19. 

All the irony.
Revelation 3:20

Offline leeroyjd

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2017, 12:05:47 PM »
If you are following a buncher would a fixed head be less $ and possibly more reliable? I followed one with a Fabtek and had good results, but have never run a dangle for comparison.

Offline snowstorm

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2017, 12:32:13 PM »
With all the money barge has. Just go to fort Kent and buy that new tiger cat with the fixed 7000 8ft. It's only half a mill

Offline snowstorm

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2017, 12:33:17 PM »
7000 xt.   

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2017, 06:27:00 PM »
Or a new Skidmore 22 with a bottom knife I may have some pictures of a new one at the factory some where. Can I ask why you'd want to follow a buncher vs only having one machine to do the same job?

Offline North River Energy

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2017, 06:27:23 PM »
..but you need a water pump for your turdbox 1966 volkswagen beetle.. JCwhitney and rock auto will swordfight for your $19. 

All the irony.

^Fake news.
Type 1,2,3 Volkswagens are air cooled.  :D

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2017, 10:44:31 PM »
With all the money barge has. Just go to fort Kent and buy that new tiger cat with the fixed 7000 8ft. It's only half a mill
😂 only 545,00. Yeah no, non tilt, be about useless here without a buncher.

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2017, 10:47:05 PM »
I appreciate the info guys i really do 👍, again something I don't know much about. Going to price some parts and look it over, I'm not desperate but looking.
 

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2017, 12:14:44 AM »
If I was doing a processor I would do a a Rottne they're easy to work on as well as a JD engine , all the pumps have the tags still on them same with bogies, an a small business owner that means a lot to me.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2017, 02:05:23 AM »
..but you need a water pump for your turdbox 1966 volkswagen beetle.. JCwhitney and rock auto will swordfight for your $19. 

All the irony.

^Fake news.
Type 1,2,3 Volkswagens are air cooled.  :D

I blame russia.
Revelation 3:20

Offline Ken

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2017, 05:07:42 AM »
The Logmax heads are quite popular around here and anybody I've talked to like them.  The Timberking on the other hand would be a bit of a gamble in my mind.  I'd sooner buy something that is far more common.  Then again you have been running a Timbco and there is only a handful of them left in my part of the world.  Good luck in your decision.  I would also say go buy new if logging was all you did.  I was nearly ruined trying to keep an old harvester running.
Lots of toys for working in the bush

Offline Riwaka

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2017, 05:01:43 AM »
Possibly the modern equivalent to the 711
Cat 521B with south star qs500  (Logset with the forwarder in the demo also do rubber tired harvesters/ processors. might one day ask cat to get logset to put a cat engine in a logset rubber tired harvester/ processor with logset head with band tracks - could up with something interesting)
https://youtu.be/NbWtSB9Wwsw?t=9m55s

Offline snowstorm

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2017, 08:58:43 AM »
so did peter say cat was out of the forwarder business now?? sounded like it

Offline wannaergo

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Re: Question for da CTL guys.
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2017, 11:07:28 AM »
I hear that now that cat is dealing logset they are discontinuing the forwarders. Not really a bad thing as far as Im concerned. The European machines are far superior to the cat stuff.

As far as the timber king goes, I would honestly be nervous. That wasnt a common Machine, so I think parts would be a bugger to get.
2016 Ponsse ergo 8w
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Husky 385

Offline North River Energy

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2017, 11:42:12 AM »
..but you need a water pump for your turdbox 1966 volkswagen beetle.. JCwhitney and rock auto will swordfight for your $19. 

All the irony.

^Fake news.
Type 1,2,3 Volkswagens are air cooled.  :D

I blame russia.

The Russia ate your homework? 

Offline deastman

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2017, 12:19:46 PM »
so did peter say cat was out of the forwarder business now?? sounded like it
Cat told me at the show last spring that you can still get a new Cat forwarder but you have to special order it and it has to be built for you. Milton Cat is now selling Logset forwarder's and stocking parts for them, they had one at the show and it looked like a nice rig
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

Offline deastman

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2017, 12:24:55 PM »
Two contractors I know up here run Log Max heads and they swear by them. I would check with Milton Cat about parts availability for the carrier, wouldn't think it would be a problem and they're a Log Max dealer also
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2017, 12:35:03 PM »
They look like a beautiful machine but how long till they drop that line or cat buys them out just like Ecolog, Fabtek, and Timber King that'd be my worry with an Logset for the long run.

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2017, 08:50:49 PM »
 I'm waiting to hear back from the forestry salesman, he sold it to this guy, find out exactly on parts, they still make that class of buncher. Yeah you can order a new cat forwarder still, salesman at Boonville tried to talk us into a 564 that was sitting there for 380k new.
 

  

  

 
 140 miles north of me, wasn't a bad ride. I'm going to go back up after talking to Cat and he will get it going. This machine wasn't beat, not all banged up, got in the cab, hit the switch and the engine door opened. I see a few little things, missing the roller covers and 1 cover on the stick. It is the large cable, not a 4 wire computer from what I see. He bought it for a job, used it and kept it as a back up, I think for the money it's not a bad deal. It's not small, I think it's a touch wider than my Timbco and longer track base, he has the books for the machine and the head, said it weighs 57,800 which isn't to bad.
 Now... and I'm under the impression that this is the dumbest thing possible....  this guy has a new Ponnse processor... owns 2 grapple skidders and a 384 prentice slasher, cut and delimbs for the skidder, zero forwarder. Says a couple other guys up that way also do it.

Offline 1270d

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2017, 08:55:36 PM »
He bunches with a ponsse?   That's interesting..   doesn't seem like it would be at all competitive with a tracked buncher

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2017, 08:56:31 PM »
We do that from time to time doing long log I'll the longer wood into the center or slightly off row center for the logs then pulp I'll put into the thinning for the forwarder.

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2017, 08:58:17 PM »
He bunches with a ponsse?   That's interesting..   doesn't seem like it would be at all competitive with a tracked buncher
Would it be much different then what we do out here doing CTL long logs?

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2017, 09:11:00 PM »
He bunches with a ponsse?   That's interesting..   doesn't seem like it would be at all competitive with a tracked buncher
The guy didn't even blink, stutter, nothing. I said I was under the impression that it doesn't work, he said 2-3 other guys are doing it, he has 2 big grapples, had a pull thru down by his shop he uses when on small redpine.

Offline barbender

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2018, 02:39:15 AM »
There's a few guys around here that run a buncher, and then a 703 Deere processor behind it, delimbing in the woods tree length, then skidders and slasher. I tell some of these guys, you already have that wood in the head you might as well cut it to length and forward it.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2018, 03:21:16 AM »
All I have to say is Robyn at Fabtek had set ups like this for 30 years it's nothing new I still do 36' fir CTL in the woods a short log is 20' pulp length if you're interested contact me.

Offline bushmechanic

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2018, 08:03:04 AM »
Looks like a nice machine and I can't get over the low hours on it. I have to disagree with snowstorm on the computer cable size being an issue. I used a Logmax for the last three summers with the larger cable and never had any problems with the wiring. Actually found it to be simpler than the canbus system to troubleshoot, not that either bothers me. One ground for everything and then a single wire to operate a function, simple. As for the carrier most parts are off the shelf for whatever machine make. For example on a 1010D John Deere all the hydraulic pumps and motors are Bosch Rexroth. Wish that machine was close to me I might buy it and go into business for myself  :D

Offline 1270d

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2018, 07:17:38 PM »
I've bunched/limbed with the harvester a little.  It didn't seem to work at all but maybe we didn't do it long enough to work it out.  It was a good way to get a few edges that the buncher couldn't get and clean up the softwood without moving the pull through to the site.   

Offline 1270d

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2018, 07:20:41 PM »
I'm interested in learning more bargemonkey.  What kind of wood are they operating in and what production level?

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2018, 01:31:19 PM »
I'm interested in learning more bargemonkey.  What kind of wood are they operating in and what production level?
I can PM you the guys #, I think they cut alot of hardwood and softwood.

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: Question for the CTL guys.
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2018, 01:33:09 PM »
Looks like a nice machine and I can't get over the low hours on it. I have to disagree with snowstorm on the computer cable size being an issue. I used a Logmax for the last three summers with the larger cable and never had any problems with the wiring. Actually found it to be simpler than the canbus system to troubleshoot, not that either bothers me. One ground for everything and then a single wire to operate a function, simple. As for the carrier most parts are off the shelf for whatever machine make. For example on a 1010D John Deere all the hydraulic pumps and motors are Bosch Rexroth. Wish that machine was close to me I might buy it and go into business for myself  :D
Finally tracked down the Cat salesman and doing the paperwork for it, salesman says it's going for a steal, it sold for 150k 3yrs ago. Milton handles logmax, salesman told me there is no issue for parts on the machine.


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