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Author Topic: Steep cable logging question  (Read 3828 times)

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Offline Puffergas

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2018, 12:26:19 PM »
As long as the cable goes to a lower mounted snatch block, the roof mounted winch should not be more prone to tip the cat over than where the down low snatch block is mounted.

If the snatch block is higher than the winch the cat will be more tippy.
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, IHC 300 Utility, Timberjack 225D, Burg Bandsaw mill, Steiger Bearcat II

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2018, 01:16:53 PM »
It would add about 500lbs to the roof and move the COG up, but the stability triangle on the thing is pretty darn good and im not much of a risk taker.  If i had to do a pond or 2:1 grade i could pull the winch off and plug the hoses. 

Im considering the lower fairlead as the only skidding location so that the forces acting on the chassis are normal, and any upper rollers as an option for yarding from stable stationary positions.  I mean, i wouldnt consider operating a yoder or yarder before it was rigged up with guy wires or stabilizers on a level pad.  I imagine those are pretty easy to flip if you set up wrong too. So ..dont set up wrong then.
Revelation 3:20

Offline Puffergas

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2018, 07:47:43 PM »
That is a good point. The weight of the winch would adjust the center of gravity .
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, IHC 300 Utility, Timberjack 225D, Burg Bandsaw mill, Steiger Bearcat II

Offline longtime lurker

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2018, 05:06:14 AM »
 Looking at your winch would it be possible to make a spacer plate to go between the current mounting bolts and the mounting points on the back of the machine? That would also require swinging the fairlead 90 but would mount the hyd motor vertically up. Its a hydraulic motor... it doesnt care which way is up.

Seen a study once: Would you believe that in 87% of dozer rollovers other then fluids the machine can be righted and walk off. The odds arent so good for the monkeys in the seat). I've tipped a few myself. Other then some bruises and the shakes and a lunchbox upside the head I've been pretty lucky. I knew some guys who weren't.  Lot of that country we used to work was more brown than green on a contour map though.

I'm hearing ya about the $ Mike, and know you arent going to go looking for trouble with it but still... I'm concerned.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline starmac

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2018, 05:39:22 AM »
Well guys, from what I have seen on what he is looking at doing, the blade will be buried to keep the cat from pulling forward and the winch will be pulling on the dog leg, how is it going to flip the machine unless that little winch can flip it end over end. I doubt seriously the rops would stand that kind of pressure.

Now the weight of the winch will change the center of gravity a bit for general dozer use, but we are talking a very small percentage in the grand scheme of things.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline longtime lurker

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2018, 06:49:47 AM »
ummmmmmmm... thinking outside the square.

its a hydraulic winch and aside from line restriction/flow drop (and you got plenty flow on that girl if you put a diversion valve off the angle rams  - mount directly behind the spool valves and the lever comes up beside the right armrest then a pair of quick couplers at the back because I've done this on a D31 afore ) it doesnt need to be hooked to the machine at all.

Build an arch and mount it on that. Keeps it nice and low. Drop two hoses and your drawbar pin and its gone.
Which leads to the next observation that the back half of a wrecked skidder would be worth keeping an eye out for.

The one thing I can tell you for sure Mike is that having done the D31 backwards skid trick myself a time or 500 if you can get an arch she'll tow more going forward with an arch then you ever could off the blade and you wont be cricking your neck all the time doing it, or beating the idlers to death when shes got the drive sprockets off the ground and still pulling like a train. I got a lot of respect for those little tractors, wish I had pictures of some of the things I dragged out with mine.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2018, 01:44:44 PM »
I looked at clocking the winch so that the motor is vert/horizontal.  Its do-able with some vent changing and maybe having to drill and tap a new oil fill for the worm, but then it either puts the freewheel lever in harms way or blocks it, and moves the fairlead down bottom under the winch.  And still is totally in my way.

  Im not saying it couldnt be done, im saying i want it on the roof.  Why? because i believe that is a superior location for my needs with only one small drawback.  Now i could be wrong.  Until someone shows up to say they tried it and went back to conventional mounting because its limits outweighed its merits, we are all kinda guessing and i tend to be stubborn enough to need to see things for myself (and a lot of times conventional wisdom doesnt concur with my results)  I dont dispute that winch on roof will reduce roll stability, but i do believe that is easily compensated for and does not pose a very large hindrance to me personally.  If so, just unbolt and fork it onto the pallet until needed again.

 Can i mount it on an arch?  Certainly, but i dont want to just yet.  Thats 2 pieces of equipment to move to my little jobs and a lot more looking backwards IMO.  If some experiences changes my mind, its not a big deal to build an arch and move it to there.  Well.. It is a big deal right now while most of my machine shop is stuck in mass.  What equipment i have here is how i earn the money to fund trips back up for more of my stuff.  I was never supposed to be a logger, or even have a dozer.  just happened that way.  Gotta make the most of it.

Thanks for all the input. I will probably stick to my guns anyway but if my plan sucks ill probably heed yours eventually so keep em coming.
Revelation 3:20

Offline teakwood

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2018, 09:10:55 PM »
Atta boy!

i tend to be stubborn enough to need to see things for myself

 :D i'm exactly the same!
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2018, 05:17:27 AM »
Ive learned the most by screwing things up, and ive screwed up a LOT of stuff. 


If it works, ill call it the DODER.  Dozer Yoder.  Backoff Caterpillar, beat it Link-Belt, outta my way Madill!  The Doder is trademarked!
Revelation 3:20

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2018, 07:55:29 AM »
Skagit beat you to the punch https://i.ytimg.com/vi/qSfMEWTLCK0/hqdefault.jpg
Here's another idea
https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/10977231/1996-cat-525
Also don't forget if you decide to put the winch one top to brace the heck out of your ROPS they werent designed for that kind of pulling forces.
https://steepslopelogging.events/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/P1120327-B-846x635.jpg
Another idea is a side mount winch like this one for tethering one of the reasons towers and choker setters are becoming antiques out here.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2018, 10:07:20 AM »
Nice finds!

The cat doesnt look like it was ever finished, no fairlead and cutoff hose stubs.. But i like it.  I did consider winch on back side of the blade (i dont wajt it infront) but it would hit the nose on full lift and i cant give up an inch there.  Plus with a brush bar on there and logs hitched up im pretty toe heavy and wanted some rear ballast.  My blade has been fully reskinned right over the last one with heavy plate also.  I am gonna try a reciever mounted DC truck winch i have on the blade this spring to see if i like it.  Light easy cable to pull for twitching small pulpy stuff.

What theyre doing with the liebher is how i picture the setup.  Push up a mound in front of you to make a flat pad and have no chance of rolling down the hill, then pull everything up to the mound.  Winch up a pile then relay to a skidder/forwarder/forestry trailer from there.


The cab will get 3x3 tube diagonal bracing.  Fwiw, my buddy before me broke a final on this machine and picked it clean off the ground to drive it back to the shop with a cat 330 excavator.  Chained from the rops.  So it held about 17k.  Im thinking most trees will be lighter!  I will set the relief valve so that it cant rip itself apart. 
Revelation 3:20

Offline coxy

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2018, 03:16:05 PM »
but you where also picking it straight up not pulling back on it if you know what I mean not saying it wont hold

Offline Puffergas

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2018, 06:52:06 PM »
By George the ideas are starting to flow now ! !

http://www.cambrianequipmentsales.ca/images/Dozer/Dozer4.jpg

http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/EP1057777A2/00320001.png

https://d2uhsaoc6ysewq.cloudfront.net/27387/Pipelayers-Caterpillar-D5N-LGP-8055717.jpg



If it is against the forum rules to post links I can delete them and you all will need to search for dozer side boom.
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, IHC 300 Utility, Timberjack 225D, Burg Bandsaw mill, Steiger Bearcat II

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2018, 10:42:05 PM »
Here's a video of that Skagit, there use to be one around my area I'd bet it's now a pop can or a Toyota Prius.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Steep cable logging question
« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2018, 10:32:36 AM »
Yeah id seen a few of those pipeline side boom cranes on auction listings over the years.  The way theyre set up is a cantilever that relies on the counterweight exceeding the line pull resistance to not fulcrum onto their sides.  In my first drawing the double A frame is sort like that in travel mode but then you swing down the other A frame drop leg and now have a 4 post tower on its own legs with a parked dozer for a counterweight.  I think youd break something before flipping the machine.  And hopefully before any of that the log simply gives up the fight and complies with my demand to rise up and walk to me.


I didnt realize how big that crawler yarder was in the first pictures.  275 gallon gas tank.  Thirsty! 

I tried to sell a complete D8 engine of that vintage for years at scrap price with no luck.  Even the export world had no use for it.  Times have changed.   
Revelation 3:20


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