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Author Topic: Setter  (Read 2378 times)

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Offline ladylake

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Re: Setter
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2018, 07:01:15 AM »
 
 I can see that perfectly, there is a huge difference between his blade and one  with a 40 ° back angle and both say they saw great.  Steve
Timberking B20 12000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Dino setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Setter
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2018, 08:59:02 AM »
Steve you are not by yourself on the confused part.  I am gonna go back and reread the whole thing.  Banjo
Cooks AC 36--Prentice 210C--Morgan edger--Kubota M7040 with loader--Case 580 K with extendahoe--Case 850C dozer--Int 1700 series twin cylinder dump/log/flatbed truck--logging arch--2 logrite mill sp.--Cat claw sharpening system--And a bulldog to make sure it all stays here.

Offline Pabene

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Re: Setter
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2018, 01:11:37 PM »
Steve, I have the main part of the back at 30°. It is only the top of the teeth as have 12°. The gullet stays in nearly the same volume as the original. I am checking the relief angle at the outside of the teeth. The result is: for a tooth with a hook angle of 8° and a relief angle of 12°,  the  “EDGE-angle” is 70°. The advantage is there is more steel as supports the edge. There are more steel to transfer heat from the edge down to the body.
I am sure that the blades keeps its sharpness better, it cut with a “softer sound” and the finish is smother.
If you compare the teeth on a circular blade with my blade, (see the photo in the thread above), you can see the angles are similar.
I am not sure I understand everything here but in my opinion would a back angle of 40° results in a to pointed tooth. The edge angle for such teeth would be 42°, it is to week and brittle.

Offline JB Griffin

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Re: Setter
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2018, 09:41:07 PM »
A lot I don't understand in that last post too. But I KNOW this, the Kasco 7/40 is the smoothest cutting blade I have ever tried, and that profile went through at least two designs before being put on the market. That being said Kasco spent a lot of time and money on that EXACT profile and when our sharpener dude changes it the blades won't run nearly as good.

Your mileage may vary, as no two mill or sawing situations are exactly alike.

How thin a point of a tooth can be and still hold up is purely a matter a metallurgy and heat treatment not profile.
2000 LT40HYDD33-RA, 160 Prentice, Frick 2 saw gang edger, Wright W-37 ABG, Suffolk dual tooth setter, Cat claw single tooth setter,'96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, CS-590 Echo, MF 20c, M681 Memo.

1.5 million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator and counting.

Offline Pabene

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Re: Setter
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2018, 04:45:07 PM »
JB Griffin, I have now seen how the Kasco 7/40 looks like. There is a photo here on the forum from two years ago. I am not the man to say it is good or not without to been able to test it. The most important on that blade, in my opinion is, it has more volume in the gullets. I believe it is made in very good steel, it is sharp and they have very good finish on the grinded surfaces. I think Kascos reason for the 40° back angle is it was necessary to give it a steeper back to be able to make a deeper gullet.
I am waiting for blades with gullets like this but the pitch would be 1.25” or more for 1.5” wide blades. For us with mills with less than 10 kW motor it would help to cut big logs.
!.5” wide blades with 7/8” pitch and also with 1” pitch, has gullets as are filled up with saw dust already when you cut boards about 8” wide. To much sawdust and chips in the kerf creates o lot of problem.
I also think the miss behavior you had after your sharpening process was caused by bad grinding.
I would like to test such 7/40 and I would allow my self also to try 12° on the tip at the first sharpening.

Offline ladylake

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Re: Setter
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2018, 05:21:09 PM »
 
 (How thin a point of a tooth can be and still hold up is purely a matter a metallurgy and heat treatment not profile)

 No way are those little pointy teeth are going to hold up to a nail hit as good as one with some metal behind the tooth.  Steve
Timberking B20 12000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Dino setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline JB Griffin

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Re: Setter
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2018, 08:50:17 PM »
Pabene, I have no doubt that your method of sharpening must work for you. But I seriously doubt that it is answer to all sawing woes. You are most very likely sawing much different sizes and species of wood than the red and white oak, hickory, sweet and black gum, and shortleaf pine that I saw on a daily basis.

Ladylake, band mill blades are made for cutting wood ;), I will stand by my statement. For more than 12 years I have forged knives and other tools and never once did I send anything out to have someone else do the heat treat for me. Do I claim to be an expert on the subject... never, but I know way more than the average bear.
2000 LT40HYDD33-RA, 160 Prentice, Frick 2 saw gang edger, Wright W-37 ABG, Suffolk dual tooth setter, Cat claw single tooth setter,'96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, CS-590 Echo, MF 20c, M681 Memo.

1.5 million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator and counting.

Offline ladylake

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Re: Setter
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2018, 01:58:31 AM »
 
 JB  So then put a razor blade on the edge of a knife with very little metal behind it and see how it holds up, I'll stand by common sense.  Keep in mind that you switched from a low quality blade that I tried and no way would it saw straight to a high quality blade.  I think the quality of the blade made more difference in sawing than those little pointy teeth.  Another thing how many sharpening can one get out of those little pointy teeth, seem like after a few sharpening's most of the original tooth would be gone.  Steve
Timberking B20 12000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Dino setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline JB Griffin

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Re: Setter
« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2018, 07:16:59 PM »
Steve,  I have gotten as many as 14 resharps out of those silvertips thats around 14mbf sawn with that blade. But that blade was exceptional. Most averaged around 6-7. Thats with 36" bandwheels. The main problem with the silvertips are low consistency,  some do good, others are junk right out the gate.

The Kasco blades are upto 4-5 resharps now and are still going.

If you aren't grinding the entire profile accurately the original tooth will be gone from any blade in a few sharpenings.

At this point I will refrain from this thread.
2000 LT40HYDD33-RA, 160 Prentice, Frick 2 saw gang edger, Wright W-37 ABG, Suffolk dual tooth setter, Cat claw single tooth setter,'96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, CS-590 Echo, MF 20c, M681 Memo.

1.5 million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator and counting.

Offline ladylake

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Re: Setter
« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2018, 08:33:34 AM »
I have had a Cooks single tooth setter. It had some week points, in my opinion, but easy to adjust so it was a good setter for me. There are more things to observe about setting than I have seen here on the forum. All setters I have seen on the market bends the teeth against a horizontal edge. That means the side of the tooth is parallell to the blade body. In other tools you want to see a relief angle in this area. If you are careful and have the setters anvil to push the tooth on a point close to the face, you will have a little better result. If you would press the tooth, on a point close to its back, it can result in a negative relief angle for the side of the tooth.
The teeth on most blades has a back angle about 30° and the back is shaped straight up to the tip. That means the tip, on the outside of a tooth with set, will cut a little wider in the kerf. It is what you need but the margin to bad behavior can be low. I hope you can see it can be critical to perform the set in the best way. I have made some tests to first "pre-twist" the teeth a little and then perform the set in my S.T.S. So far it has been positive.



 I have my Suffolk setter up and running, works great. The push block is angled well so it hits the tip of the tooth first bending it out a little so no need to worry about the relief on the side of the tooth on this setter.  Steve
Timberking B20 12000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Dino setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

 


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