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Author Topic: Frick 00 Circle Saw  (Read 3625 times)

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Offline Rigg

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Frick 00 Circle Saw
« on: December 31, 2017, 11:24:13 AM »
I attached a video of my sawmill I got running some time back.  Would welcome any comments or suggestions.

I haven't ran it in awhile and seems a little slow on power.  The sun was shining on it and that doesn't help.

I'm not sure if its spinning fast enough to make the blade stand up. Can any one tell from the video?

My receder for the headblocks also seem to be binding up a little. 

I've had to keep adjusting the headblocks to keep the boards square.  That has been my most recurring problem.

I'm running about 1/8 inch of lead with new chrome teeth.   Its gigging on the return more than I'd like right now.

Its a 48 inch blade.


Offline dgdrls

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2017, 12:40:16 PM »
Hi Rigg, 

nice set-up

what's the power unit?

No telling from the video on your blade,...tooth pattern/number of teeth?
whats your blade hammered to for surface feet per minute (SFPM) or RPM's

Since its been sitting, maybe a little maintenance to get the set-works loosened a little??

D


Offline Rigg

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2017, 01:18:19 PM »
Thanks.  Its a International UD-14 power unit.  I think its around 75 hp from what I've read. 

I don't really know what the blade was hammered for.  I'm assuming around 540 rpm.  I don't feel like the blade is turning that fast though.  Probably need to get a tach.

Its B/F teeth.  I think there's 48 teeth on that blade.  I need to go count again.

I've oiled the setworks pretty well.  They work well pulling in but seems difficult going out.

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2017, 02:35:13 PM »
Your losing power while you're in the cut.  That's causing your saw to lay over because whatever you saw is hammered for, you're not maintaining that speed.  I have to question if you're actually running fast enough.  Since you're running direct off the motor, there isn't any slippage in the belts.  Check your air filters.  That was often an area where we lost power was when they got dirty.  Is there a tach on the motor?  I'd say your under 500 rpm, just by the sound of the saw.  You should be able to feed faster than what you're doing.

I also wonder how sharp your saw is.  Chromed bits always seemed dull to me caused by the plating process.  How do you plan to sharpen the chromed bits?  You'll need a grinder to knock the chrome off of them.  Also, how are your saw guides?  They should be close on the board side.  You're getting markings on your lumber.  Your bits need to be aligned with the shanks or you'll have some teeth that are hanging longer than the other teeth.  Your saw will always lead to the stronger side.

Lead is a relative thing.  If you're not running up to RPM, then it won't matter, as the saw isn't standing up.  Some mills can get by with a scant lead, others need a lot.  I had one that needed 3/8" lead.   Track alignment can affect your lead.   

Binding can be a problem, but a bit of diesel does a good job as a lubricant.  It also doesn't attract too much sawdust. 

One thing I would add on technique.  I always gave a tug on the dogs as I dogged on a hand mill.  That takes out all the slop and keeps the log securely in place.  Watch your fingers. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline Rigg

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2017, 03:09:48 PM »
Thanks for replying Mr. Wenrich.

I am losing power more so than several months ago.  I haven't sawed with it in a bout 2 months till we took that video.  Planning on cleaning air filter and changing fuel filter.  I also have air in the fuel sometimes and haven't completely fixed that either.

Would like to eventually hook a Detroit up.

In nice poplar I can generally feed a lot faster than in the video.  However the last 2 days it seemed a little sluggish.  That's why I'm worried about it.  When I hit that nasty little cucumber seems like it just set the motor back.  So not sure if its me or the motor.

I don't have a plan for the chrome bits.  I had a box of them and I put them on because the old bits were shot. It cut a lot better after I did that.  Till now.  I have an angle grinder and a mill bastard file. Will they work?

I did go back through after I initially put the chrome bits on and straightened them up a bit.  Before that I had 1 or 2 teeth that were really leaving a groove. I'll do it again then.

Also on bits.. I also have a box of standalls.  However, some of the shanks are winter and some are summer.  So wasn't sure if I should use them.

After this video I did tighten the guides.  I was in a hurry and didn't have time to fool with them.  When I shade my eyes from the sun I noticed the gap was to much.

However, seems like I need to tighten my guides to often.  Guessing that's because the saws wobbling when she slows down in the cut?

An older sawyer straightened me out on the dogs yesterday as well.  They have a little slop in them.

Offline 4x4American

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2017, 03:33:12 PM »
Whats that electric motor by the setworks powering or is it not hooked up? 
Boy, back in my day..

Offline Gearbox

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2017, 03:55:52 PM »
I see a few things .
1 When you did the lead did you turn the saw to use the same tooth the measure to the same bunk and the saw guide backed off .
2 there is something about the teeth making a deep mark in your board . look at your teeth .
3 You can't guess at saw speed . Start at idle with the saw guides backed off and throttle up until the saw stands up .
4 If you are running that UD at 6 7 or 800 your power will be way down . that is a 1400 rpm engine .
I am wondering if Jeff sees this if he might know what is causing the teeth marks . It isn't spraying saw dust on the return so it may be to much lead . Does the saw step over when it comes out of the cut .
























A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

Offline Rigg

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2017, 04:12:56 PM »
4x4,
The electric motor will recede the headblocks.  I don't have it hooked up right now.


Gear box,

Don't have anyone to ask about the UD 14.

Yes, checked lead with same tooth and ran the guides out.  I haven't changed it from what its always been.

So when I go to flip to diesel I have to put it a little above the 3rd notch to get it to run.  If you try notch 1 or 2 it'll die.  Sometimes it'll lope in the 3rd notch.  The 4th notch it revs up and steadies.  That's as fast as she goes. That's where I'm sawing. 

So I've had some air in the lines and am wondering if that's not why its running as fast as it should and loping.

I have the fuel supply tank up in the air.  In the book it says the lines should slope down from the engine to avoid air pockets. Reason I put it there because it always was there. Do you think this could be a problem?

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2017, 05:00:19 PM »
I can't help you out with the engine issues.  I always worked with diesels that were belted to the mill.  That way you could run at a good RPM and get the power into the blade. 

To sharpen chrome, you need to knock off the chrome from the face of the tooth.  Without that, you won't be able to file the teeth.  I run chrome for awhile, but switched back to steel.  I used them on my edgers, since they weren't used for as deep of cuts.  But, new chrome always gave me some tooth marks.  Simonds is the only game in town and I've seen teeth that are mismanufactured.  I've had some that I had to get into shape to make a good tooth.  Usually, they were long on one side.  Chrome also has a tendency to be a little erratic in the thickness.  A spider gauge will help you get the teeth all the same width.  A quick and easy way to do it is to take a file on the sides of 3 teeth.  If it rocks, the middle one is high.  I've used that method to get rid of wild teeth.

Another thing to do is to check your saw on how it runs when its stationary.  Loosen your guides so the saw doesn't rub.  Find an area where the teeth are in the center of the guides.  Advance the saw one tooth at a time and mark your saw with a "+" or a "-" as it moves to the left of right.  The more it moves, the more "+" or "-" marks you use.  You'll have a map of your saw and collars.  For a quick fix, you can use a paper shim.  But, what is really need is to have your collars turned. 

On setting lead, if you have 3 bearings, you have to loosen the bearing in the middle before you set your lead.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline Rigg

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2017, 06:09:10 PM »
Yeah, I didn't have any teeth marks until I changed teeth.  I took a straight edge against 3 teeth at a time and gently tapped a few wild ones over.  That helped a lot but still have some grooves.  Maybe do it again?  What do I have to use to knock the chrome off?

Probably why I have a box full of chrome teeth.

Another question.  If you take that back dog up as the carriage is coming back in other words let the log lay up against the saw for a second and the saw is rubbing it harder than maybe it should.   Will it be enough to cause it to make the next cut be off a little?  The thickness of the board on one end be thinner?

Offline Gearbox

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2017, 06:19:03 PM »
Ron and I will get it on the right track . I have never sawed with chrome . As far as the diesel are you saying you open the throttle wide open ? Are your fuel filters new ? We have a UD 18 at our farm club that is stuck . If need be I can use it to refresh my memory . Seems to me when we switched from gas to diesel we always opened it wide open then throttled back . Man that's 40 years ago haha .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

Offline Gearbox

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2017, 06:24:03 PM »
Is your last board tapered ? I had the bunks out of time once . It took a while for the light to come on that one . your last board will always be tapered by a 1/4 inch the rest will be right . Each notch is 1/8 inch I think .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

Offline Rigg

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2017, 08:24:18 PM »
I run it wide open.  Not sure the phone he was using picked up all the sound. 

Fuel filter is not new.  Supposed to get a new one Monday.

My last board has been tapered at times.  I've reset the headblocks and then its been fine.  I haven't checked lately.

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2017, 09:19:12 PM »
Sounds like you have some stress in the logs.  When you let your back dog up, that will relieve the stress and you'll have a bit of spring in the log.  The way around that is to constantly turn your cant.  But, when you do that, you need to make a shim cut.  That trues up your cut and wastes time and fiber.  Otherwise you end up with miscut lumber that has little value. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline Southside logger

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2017, 11:23:01 PM »
I don't know anything about circular mills, but the yoke on the PTO shaft does not look like it is spinning at 540 based on what my irrigation pump looks like. It could be the camera causing an optical illusion. A plugged up filter will limit your RPM for sure.  Either way, please get a shield over that shaft for the sake of your offbearer and yourself.
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Offline sealark37

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2018, 10:25:00 AM »
When it is running properly, your UD-14 should make short work of the logs you are sawing.  Either the governed speed is low, or fuel pressure to the injection pump is low.  If you don't have a service or owners manual for the UD-14, they are available on Fleabay.  You have a nice looking setup.  Don't wait too long to build a saw shed.    Regards, Clark

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2018, 06:50:14 PM »
It looks like you need a speed reduction to run the engine at 1400 + and the saw at 5 to 600.
you can usually can find the saw speed by running [in the air] your engine at the saw wobble speed and accelerate until the saw runs flat and note that speed. That should be the hammered speed and you cannot go below it.  the engine needs to run at maximum torque + while the saw runs at the hammered speed.  The nice thing about shaft drive is their is no pull on the mandrel compared to belt drive. there is a ud 14a rebuilt long block down here.

Offline Corley5

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2018, 07:36:57 PM »
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Offline Darrel

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2018, 08:02:30 PM »
It looks like you need a speed reduction to run the engine at 1400 + and the saw at 5 to 600.
you can usually can find the saw speed by running [in the air] your engine at the saw wobble speed and accelerate until the saw runs flat and note that speed. That should be the hammered speed and you cannot go below it.  the engine needs to run at maximum torque + while the saw runs at the hammered speed.  The nice thing about shaft drive is their is no pull on the mandrel compared to belt drive. there is a ud 14a rebuilt long block down here.

4 speed transmission in 2nd gear would just about do that for you.
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Offline Corley5

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Re: Frick 00 Circle Saw
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2018, 08:15:35 PM »
  Is the drive shaft from the engine bolted directly to the mandrel or is it offset and connected with belts?  Getting 540 RPMs directly off the clutch PTO would have the engine at less than half the rated speed.  It appears that the clutch unit is a direct drive with no gear reduction internally.  That's why I ask if there's some pulleys and belts involved to change the ratio.  I'm assuming there are :) :)  Is this how the previous owner had it set up?
  I'd replace your engine's fuel filters and then check its RPMs.  There should be a setting on the injection pump to turn it up.  Get a shop manual for it too :) :)  Nice set up 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
  My Corley 5s are left handed and the mandrel can be bolted directly to a tractors PTO.  Otherwise my MM G403 and Cat D13000 used belts and pulleys to connect to the mandrel for the right RPM.  Being LH mills the radiators face the mill to get the right rotation.
 

  



 

 
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