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Author Topic: New Home In-Floor Heat  (Read 5446 times)

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Offline overclocking

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2018, 11:08:40 PM »
My theory on the plates is run them if you can. If there are nails all over from hardwood floors or the backer board you might not be able to run the plates.

Its really two different but acceptable forms of transferring the heat.

If you run the plates its likely you wont need to insulate under the ceiling drywall because the plates transfer the heat mostly by conduction. I would run some type of vapor barrier under the ceiling drywall though to keep it from discoloring from the temperature changes.
If you just run the loops and no plates your going to want to add at least tabbed foil foam radiant barrier to trap the air into a 2 inch void in order to promote convection.
Its not wrong either way, they both work as long as the loops aren't over length.

As far as getting the heat upstairs, I would suggest 1 inch pex to a center mounted manifold if you can and zone control them electronically.

My main floor is heated, but my upstairs is not and I wish it was. There is nothing more comfortable than that type of radiant heat. I would absolutely spend the money now, and not wish you had later.

Offline shinnlinger

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2018, 07:38:23 AM »
I used armafoil and there is no noise from expansion/contraction and it was cheap and easy.  I nailed my air dried flat sawn pine into the joists so as to avoid the pex with ring shank nails in my air nailer. I painted the heads black first and turned up the air to get a nice countersink.  Again, cheap and easy.  I even put them down rough sawn and then floor sanded in place.  8 years later and held up pretty well.  In winter the cracks open up a bit but not too bad.
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Offline mitchstockdale

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2018, 10:47:44 AM »
I used armafoil and there is no noise from expansion/contraction and it was cheap and easy.  I nailed my air dried flat sawn pine into the joists so as to avoid the pex with ring shank nails in my air nailer. I painted the heads black first and turned up the air to get a nice countersink.  Again, cheap and easy.  I even put them down rough sawn and then floor sanded in place.  8 years later and held up pretty well.  In winter the cracks open up a bit but not too bad.

I may see what i can find that is similar to Armafoil around here the hardware stores typically only deal in the basics.  Will most likely end up using the plastic clips with pre loaded nail.

I have been thinking of doing the same type of floor but since my joist are running the same  direction that i would like the flooring to run I have been considering gluing it down with Mapei adhesive.
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Offline mitchstockdale

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2018, 11:24:25 AM »
My theory on the plates is run them if you can. If there are nails all over from hardwood floors or the backer board you might not be able to run the plates.

Its really two different but acceptable forms of transferring the heat.

If you run the plates its likely you wont need to insulate under the ceiling drywall because the plates transfer the heat mostly by conduction. I would run some type of vapor barrier under the ceiling drywall though to keep it from discoloring from the temperature changes.
If you just run the loops and no plates your going to want to add at least tabbed foil foam radiant barrier to trap the air into a 2 inch void in order to promote convection.
Its not wrong either way, they both work as long as the loops aren't over length.

Most likely not doing the plates unless i get a heck of a deal.  As a minimum for insulation I plan to use 1" or 1.5" EPS foam with a reflective face

As far as getting the heat upstairs, I would suggest 1 inch pex to a center mounted manifold if you can and zone control them electronically.

I have been looking at this for a couple weeks now and I dont have a good spot for the manifold upstairs on the second floor....will most likely be bringing all the 1/2" leads down to the crawlspace.
 
My main floor is heated, but my upstairs is not and I wish it was. There is nothing more comfortable than that type of radiant heat. I would absolutely spend the money now, and not wish you had later.

Great advise thanks...have really come to this realization since the thread was started... everybody has been very helpful.

Will try and post a layout for people to see what I am up to.
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Offline mitchstockdale

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2018, 12:51:09 PM »
Sorry for the quality if you squint really hard you can sort of make things out.  I attached a PDF also has better quality.



  



 



 
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Offline Corley5

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2018, 08:10:47 AM »
  I bought a pex stapler to attach my lines to the sub floor.  I used pex-al-pex because it is supposed to transfer heat better and isn't noisy like regular pex.  I've got two runs of 1/2" tubing in each 16" space between the 2X10s and installed 8" thick foil faced fiberglass insulation with the foil up to reflect the heat up and leave a two inch air space.  My supply manifolds are in the basement with flow meters.  We didn't insulate the tubes going upstairs.  They're in the wall between a closet and the stairway.  Both are very warm.  We leave the closet door open.  The system is set up for thermostat controlled pumps and zone valves but we never installed the thermostats and adjust the temp with isolation valves on each zone.  The components are on the shelf in the mechanical room.  It's on my list to finish that part but until it then it works very well ;D   
  I'm considering putting some tubing in a wall of each room in the old part of the house to supplement the baseboard.  It would be hooked into a separate loop and pump and only used on the very coldest days when the baseboard falls behind.  I've got enough tubing left over and taking off the T&G and putting it back on wouldn't be too bad.
  I got my supplies online.  Shop around.  Pex Universe and Pex Supply were two sites that come to mind.  They offered free shipping with a minimum purchase 8)  I ordered some 1/2" ball valves a while ago because they were way cheaper than Lowe's or Home Depot.
  I don't know what you've got for a crawl space but I'd seriously consider putting your manifolds somewhere you can easily access them like a utility room or a closet on the ground floor if possible.  Installation as well as maintenance will be much easier.  If a pump or something needs replacing it would a whole lot more pleasant :) :) and it's easier to monitor the system.  Not that it needs much :)

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Offline Stoneyacrefarm

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2018, 10:07:35 AM »
Great input guys.
I'm currently working on the same kind of project.
Radiant heat in the basement floor and the first floor as well.
Work hard. Be rewarded.

Offline Corley5

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2018, 11:31:35 AM »
 

 

 

 

This is the pex stapler I've got.  Worth every penny.  It was used to install the potable pex as well.  We use the standoff clips.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Peter-Mangone-RB-5-Manual-Clip-Gun-5226000-p?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItpC56-vS2AIVFb3sCh1AIQ39EAQYASABEgJ_3fD_BwE 
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Offline KamHillbilly

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2018, 08:47:14 AM »
I have an 1 1/2” of concrete ( regular concrete with smaller rock and an additive which name I can’t think of ) on my main floor covering pipes I just added an extra bottom plate on walls , most of main floor is 3/4” maple hardwood glued directly to concrete with Bosticks Best urathane adhesive . Wood has been down for 15 years with no issues , My friend has his stapled underneath sub floor with radiant plates and it seems to work well also but he ADL-Org insulated the under side between floors . Mind you we may be in a different climate we are in our 3rd week of -30C temps .
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Offline John Mc

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2018, 10:29:16 AM »
KamHillbilly - mine is a similar setup to yours: A lightweight concrete slab poured on the subfoor (like you, I can't remember what was added to the concrete). I had sleepers nailed down before the slab was poured. The tubing runs in the gaps between the sleepers (the sleepers were left a bit short on the ends to create a gap fo the tubing to go through). Slab was poured on that between the sleepers. Instead of gluing, my hardwood flooring was nailed to the sleepers. It's been working well for 15+ years now, and I really like the thermal mass of the slab.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Online Crusarius

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2018, 01:34:21 PM »
that is a great idea. I just don't want to add anymore to my existing floor
I knew what I thought I meant.

Offline mitchstockdale

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2018, 07:55:48 AM »
Quote

This is the pex stapler I've got.  Worth every penny.  It was used to install the potable pex as well.  We use the standoff clips.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Peter-Mangone-RB-5-Manual-Clip-Gun-5226000-p?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItpC56-vS2AIVFb3sCh1AIQ39EAQYASABEgJ_3fD_BwE

Wow!  I need this stapler... running the pipe is going to be a horrible enough job, this would sure make things go a little easier instead of swinging a hammer overhead.  Thanks Corley5 much appreciated.

Any particular reason you would use the stand off clips as opposed to the flush clips??

Does anyone know of an online supplier that carries this product and will ship to Canada I tried the online portal at supply house and it seems they don't ship to Canada.
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Offline Corley5

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2018, 11:18:47 AM »
http://www.petermangone.com/Canada%20Distributors.php

The standoff clips hold the tubing away from the surface so it doesn't wear with expansion and contraction from rubbing.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom


Offline clerkick

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2018, 09:40:10 PM »
I have an ICF home, actually my first house, radiant heat on both floors, in slab and stapled to second floor subfloor with what is basically foil faced bubble wrap placed between the joists. This seems to work well, aside from the master bed/bath zone. Master bed has the only carpet in the house and is on the north wall of a home designed for passive solar. This I think costs me more money than the type of tubing attachment would. Carpet and padding provide a lot of resistance to heat transfer. Currently 14 degrees and this is my slab vs bedroom temps.  Edit: the original owner ran tubing in the garage slab but never hooked it up. Something the wife and I think about adding every winter. A lot easier to add a thermostat and a tyco valve than to add tubing after the fact. 

  

 

Offline 50 Acre Jim

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2018, 08:20:08 PM »
What's your boiler set at? Temp sure looks low coming into the house.
Go to work?  Probably Knott.  Because I cant.

Offline mitchstockdale

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2018, 08:51:01 AM »
Does anybody have any recommendations on whether insulation is needed on the zone piping that runs from the manifold to where the zone loops start.  In my case the approximate pipe length is going to be about 20+ft from the manifold outlet to where the loop starts. Is this something to consider or does it matter in the grand scheme of the system?
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Offline mitchstockdale

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2018, 08:53:38 AM »
What's your boiler set at? Temp sure looks low coming into the house.

I wonder if this is because he has an ICF house? my friend built an ICF home and he can literally heat the place with a candle...lol
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Offline Corley5

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2018, 09:17:58 AM »
  When I was in the planning stages for my in floor heat it was recommended that I read Dan Halohan's books.  I got these  "Pumping Away"; "Hydronic Heating, Practical guide for the Nonengineer"; and "Primary-Secondary Pumping Made Easy".
Dan's website https://heatinghelp.com/about-us/
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Offline E Yoder

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Re: New Home In-Floor Heat
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2018, 07:44:59 PM »
What's your boiler set at? Temp sure looks low coming into the house.
This is mixed down water, correct? Not the full temp boiler water.
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