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Author Topic: block heaters  (Read 1965 times)

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Online thecfarm

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block heaters
« on: January 01, 2018, 03:47:11 PM »
The only time we have seen double digits is with a minus sign.
Those block heaters sure are nice. Mighty nice. My tractor will fire right up. This tractor has the fuel tank behind the seat. My other one had it front of the steering wheel,kinda over the engine. I use to throw an old piece of carpet on the hood to keep the fuel warm. I use it every few days to bring wood up to the house. I still let it idle for a while. I can hear the hyds whine on it,until it gets warm.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline goose63

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2018, 04:36:26 PM »
Ray I have a small tank heater on my little trackter that  I keep in a shed and at 20 below that thing will fire up like it's summer
goose
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Offline 47sawdust

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2018, 04:45:04 PM »
Yeah Ray a block heater is a wonderful thing.So are warm hydraulics.I like to give my Kubota a little time before we head out.
Mick
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Offline moodnacreek

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2018, 07:19:01 PM »
Electric block heaters should be rigged up with timers.  Besides saving electric costs, keeping an engine warm for long periods [with no use]  increases corrosion.

Online thecfarm

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2018, 07:27:51 PM »
My tractor don't sit too long. Maybe 48 hours at the most. I will unplug it at times. Just to save on the electric bill. That poor tractor does not get much of a rest.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2018, 07:37:59 PM »
  My 2355JD has a block heater but it doesn't get plugged in very often, because I avoid work when it's that cold. On those occasions where I need to start it in the teens or colder I plug it in for about an hour and she fires right up. So far my Kubota has always started without one.
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Offline Woodcutter_Mo

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2018, 09:17:16 PM »
 I have a magnetic heater I use occasionally on my truck since the block heater it has doesn't work and on the tractor as well. I stick it on the bottom of the oil pan for a couple hours before I plan to start the engine. It makes it easier on the starter and battery in really cold weather. I'm sure it doesn't work as well as the internal block heater but helps alot.
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2018, 09:35:33 PM »
Some of our heaters are on timed outlets, others get plugged in before chores. My Kubota is a hydro, so I let it warm up after it starts, but it sure is nice to just crank it over once and have it running.
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Online thecfarm

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2018, 09:38:00 PM »
I had an old subaru. That thing would not start in the singles numbers. I put a halogen light under the hood and covered the hood with an old blanket and it would start like it was 30į.
My FIL says it cost too much to run them block heaters. So he would rather start it cold and save a dollar.  ::)
I feel any heats helps out some,if you can.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2018, 09:43:41 PM »
I think cold starts, especially below 10 F, are really hard on an engine. Even a 1500 watt  heater only costs 20 cents an hour, at least on my residential meter.
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Offline starmac

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2018, 10:54:54 PM »
We keep block and oil heaters on them, it is not uncommon during cold spells for someone to start their rig and toast an engine because the oil is too cold to pump with just a block heater. I have one heater that just has an oil heater on the oil pan and one on the tranny too, no block heater, it will start easy enough at 20 below, but I usually don't use it once it gets that cold.
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Offline Brian_Rhoad

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2018, 11:24:29 PM »
Here is a Thermostatically Controlled Outlet that would work for a heater. I use one on a heat lamp.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/farm-innovators-thermostatically-controlled-outlet?cm_vc=-10005

Offline Ed

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2018, 12:08:10 AM »
Even though my diesel truck is in a heated shop, when its this DanG cold I'll plug the block heater in for a couple hours before I go plow.

Cuts the warm up time down.

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Offline barbender

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2018, 12:58:01 AM »
Electric block heaters should be rigged up with timers.  Besides saving electric costs, keeping an engine warm for long periods [with no use]  increases corrosion.

Would you elaborate on the corrosion issue?
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2018, 05:46:39 AM »
Ed, I keep my truck in a heated shop, so that there is basically no warm up time, I crank it and back out, rear ends tranny everything is sitting at 60 degrees, so she is ready to roll out.
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2018, 06:30:59 AM »
I have them on the John Deere and cat. Put them on a timer for a 3hr heat up before I turn the key.
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Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2018, 07:22:11 AM »
Block heater and battery tender trickle charger are plugged in all the time on my tractor that I feed cattle with, other equipment gets plugged in as needed.

Offline Chuck White

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2018, 08:04:14 PM »
I have a battery tender hooked up to my little JD-1023E all through the Winter and I have a block heater on order for it now, should be here before the weekend!

This cold snap has been brutal and the heater will be a blessing!
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Offline bodagocreek2

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2018, 07:55:34 AM »
Have a block heater on my 20 year old Kubota 2900 that's never been used. No electricity. When glow plug light goes off starts the same winter or summer. Let it idle for 20 minutes or so for hydraulics to loosen up.

Offline PA_Walnut

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2018, 08:19:46 AM »
I got a block heater for my Kubota even though it fires right up regardless of the temp. However, with single-digit temps, I think it's easier on everything to be a little warmer at startup.
However, of course, installation would seemingly (should) be straight forward and easy...no deal.  :-\ :-[
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Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2018, 09:41:46 AM »
Have a block heater on my 20 year old Kubota 2900 that's never been used. No electricity. When glow plug light goes off starts the same winter or summer. Let it idle for 20 minutes or so for hydraulics to loosen up.

Just because it will start doesn't mean that it is the best for the engine. A warmed block experiences much less wear on cold starts. Also many tractors don't have good plugs.

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2018, 10:14:35 AM »
Sometimes when ordering a block heater you have choices with wattage. If you leave it plugged in all the time get a low watts model, for occasional use get the mega watt model and you won't need to wait as long for warm up.
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2018, 02:25:21 PM »
Sometimes when ordering a block heater you have choices with wattage. If you leave it plugged in all the time get a low watts model, for occasional use get the mega watt model and you won't need to wait as long for warm up.

I seen up to 300 watts on E-bay... Whats a good wattage for leaveing it plugged in all the time
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Offline 51cub

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2018, 03:58:22 PM »
I have to second barbender's question. Please elaborate about corrosion. I have times when I'll need to leave at all hours of the night. It's easier to leave it plugged in for awhile sometimes
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2018, 07:50:28 AM »
I have to second barbender's question. Please elaborate about corrosion. I have times when I'll need to leave at all hours of the night. It's easier to leave it plugged in for awhile sometimes

Here's an attempt at explaining the corrosion issue if a preheater is left operating long-term without starting the engine and getting it up to full operating temperature regularly:

I know it is a concern on air-cooled piston aircraft engines (but I'm less sure about tractor engines). The main concern there is that you can start air flowing through the engine - warm air rises, pulling in cooler air. As the air rises, it travels to cooler parts of the engine, where the moisture in the air condenses. If you leave it on continuously, you are constantly pumping in new outside air and keeping that condensation cycle going. To add to the problem, as you put hours on your tractor, by-products of combustion build up in the oil. That mix is also corrosive. As you warm it, the moisture and combustion products in the oil can evaporate out and be deposited in other parts of the engine.

The longer you leave that preheater running, the more moisture you are putting in to the system (it may not seem like there is much moisture in winter air, but there is some, and over time you are continuously adding it to the engine. Starting the engine and getting it thoroughly warmed up and keeping it at temperature for an extended periodburns the moisture off. (In my Cessna 172, I'm told to get the oil to 180˚ and keep it there for at least a half hour. I assume this can vary significantly with the type of engine and volume of oil it holds. It also may be completely different with a water cooled engine.)

One thing that helps minimize this is trying to get the whole engine warmed up - the more evenly it's warmed, the less chance of condensation inside the engine. This is one of the reasons that many aircraft preheaters have a heater on each cylinder, plus a heating pad on the oil sump. (On an air-cooled engine, those cylinders are hanging out off the main block of the engine, rather than being inside the block on most liquid-cooled engines. They also have fins designed to carry heat away - a good thing when running, a problem when preheating.) Inside storage out of the wind and/or throwing a blanket or old sleeping bag over the engine cowling on the aircraft does two things: the preheater heats it more quickly, and the heat gets more uniform - at least if you leave it connected long enough for the heat to flow out to the further parts of the engine.

As I mentioned, this is an issue on air-cooled aircraft engines. I suspect it can also be a factor on water-cooled gas and diesel engines, but someone more familiar with them will have to comment on that. The cylinders are a more integral part of the engine block, which helps heat flow to them, but on the other hand, most of these engines are heated with a single source of heat, which could lead to less uniform heating. I'm not sure whether the internal air flow concerns are the same or not.
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2018, 07:57:58 AM »
Learned something new today... Thanks for the education ...
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2018, 08:56:08 AM »
I'm assuming oil viscosity and/or use of synthetics are topics that play during these temps.

I've tried to move all my machines to synthetics, not only for their wear characteristics, but for their ability to flow better at lower temps. (ie. can go with lower viscosity synthetics, over dino oils, and get same or better performance).

I often hear theories, conjecture, blah blah about "modern engines don't need warmed up..." or "that was during the era of carb engines..." blah blah, but some good common sense would dictate that most wear is during the transition from cold to hot and during those times, the engine is most stressed. For me, some nice/long warmup times is the standard.
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2018, 09:03:22 AM »
I feel the engine is nice and warm,with a block heater. No spit and sputter. I have 2 tractors and both will start right up and sound good.  But needs a block heater for the hyds.  ;D  That motor will make some noise.  :o I have no idea how long it takes,but when I go back to the tractor,after about 10 minutes, all is quiet
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2018, 10:10:18 AM »
  My late 80s JD has a block heater in a water jacket which is normal but my newer Kubota doesn't have anything built in although it's easy to stick a magnetic heater on the bottom of the oil pan which I feel is good enough. I may look under and see if there's a place to stick a magnetic heater on the hydraulic reservoir, they are cheap and easy.
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2018, 10:19:58 AM »
Hydraulic reservoir is probably the rearend/transmission. I have a Kubota L48 and I let it run for 5-10 minutes then go easy until everything is limbered up.  The loader, backhoe, and hydrostatic transmission are noticeably stiff until some warm hydraulic fluid has been circulated.
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2018, 12:09:57 PM »
Learned something new today... Thanks for the education ...

No guarantee it works the same way on a diesel as on an air-cooled aircraft engine, but the concept at least makes sense to me.
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2018, 12:51:25 PM »
I've got frost plug heaters on the Bobcat, 3-53 in the Franklin, 706 Farmall, and 401 Case.  I had a circulating heater on the Perkins in the Iron Mule.  The Fabtek harvester has a ProHeat and the Dodge Cummins and 7.3 Ford have their stock heaters.  The Dodge will start with the grid heater when it's cold and is seldom plugged in.  The Ford needs to be plugged in below 15 degrees and likes to be plugged if it's 25 or colder.  The Bobcat's Kubota starts good with just the glow plugs unless it's 20 or colder but I plug it in for good measure if it's near an outlet.  The 353 in the Franklin has a 1,000 watt element.  Plug it in for an hour and it starts like it's 70 degrees.  The 706 it doesn't matter.  Plug it in and it still needs a shot of ether in July when it's 80  ;) ;D
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2018, 01:01:52 PM »
I'm guessing the 706 has the D282? We had one of those that needed to be glowed in the middle of summer right after it was shut off.  :D We replaced it with an engine out of a TD9B. It has a different style injector pump and starts very well in the cold. Has a turbo, too.  :D
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2018, 01:06:39 PM »
Ya, it's an early one with a low 4 digit serial #.  Haying with it I never shut it off unless I really had too like to unplug the baler.  And to get it restarted a shot of ether helped ;D ;D
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2018, 01:19:48 PM »
The glow plugs must not be working at all, then.
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2018, 01:26:47 PM »
I had them checked along with the injectors when the pump was rebuilt.  They replaced  three of them then.  I think.  That was a several years ago.  I think a lack of compression is big factor with this one ;) ;D
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2018, 01:36:57 PM »
 Yeah, that'll do it.  :D Probably only has 18,000 hours.
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2018, 02:34:47 PM »
Your 7.3 needs glow plugs or the relay. Mine will start to -15 at least. When I first got the 6.7 I tried it at 30 below. It started

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2018, 02:45:15 PM »
Y'all keep discussing this and it keeps popping up in my unread page and my pathetic humour has finally broke and I will share the first version of "block heater" that I learned. It looked something like this:

 

 

I learned about the real ones later.
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Offline Corley5

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2018, 05:01:37 PM »
Some of the glow plugs work in it.  It won't start at all if they're not used ;D :)
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2018, 05:08:50 PM »
The hour meter in the 706 reads 4,600 and some odd hours.  It didn't work when we got it.  That'll be 12 years ago in April  ;D :)  Time flies.  It's nice to go back to gallery and look at dates on pictures 8) 8)

 

  
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2018, 08:10:37 PM »
One of ours says 3200 or something like that. Probably close to 20000.

Looks good.  34" rubber? I hate 34" rubber.
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Offline 51cub

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2018, 08:16:35 PM »
Thank you, John Mc! I got reading around some today and ran across something about condensation. I'd have never thought I was making that much, but that's what I get for thinking. Thanks again!
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2018, 08:56:04 PM »
I have a block heater for the sawmill coming in the mail.  Looking forward to having it, but by then itíll be warm out lol


Itís the kind that threads in think I use pipe dope on it?
Boy, back in my day..

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Re: block heaters
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2018, 10:03:04 PM »
One of ours says 3200 or something like that. Probably close to 20000.

Looks good.  34" rubber? I hate 34" rubber.

It had those on it when we hauled it home.  I think they were 15?X38s.  We found a pair 16.4s ??? :-\  It looks much better with them on it 8)  It didn't look right with the other tires on it.  These fill the fenders better ;D


 
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Re: block heaters
« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2018, 08:26:59 PM »
........ I will share the first version of "block heater" that I learned:
 

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
I learned about the real ones later.

Good one!
We Canadians must be a bunch of blockheads, 'cause we've ALL got one of those Block Heaters!
 :D
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