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Author Topic: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails  (Read 2363 times)

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Offline Brad_bb

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Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« on: January 09, 2018, 12:17:21 PM »
When I first got my Woodmizer mill in 2014, I never got clear answers from Woodmizer on resharpening and nail strikes.  So my first bands that had nail strikes I sent back for resharp and when they came back it seemed like they didn't cut well at all.  So from then on I set nail strike bands aside and if I had just nicked one, I might try resharp, but most of the time if I could see the tip of the tooth not a point anymore, I figured they couldn't do anything with it and I junked it.  For the longest time I wondered if they really checked the set on the resharp bands as well and someone's recent post here confirmed that they don't.  I think they should.  I have a band that I just hit a nail with and it still cut be once a revolution it would jump because I think one or two teeth were bent out of the correct set. 

So, if you hit a nail do you junk the band?  Am I correct in that they cannot grind back enough material to fix from nail strikes?
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline uler3161

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2018, 01:40:07 PM »
I do not junk the band unless it's already close to it's end of life. I do my own blades. It does take more effort to grind a tooth back and to get it reset though, especially if you have to downset and don't have a setter that does that.
1989 LT40HD, 12ft extension, WoodMaster 718, Fordson Major Diesel, Champ CB40 Forklift

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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2018, 02:00:06 PM »
I was told to turn the blade inside out when you ship it back to resharp for sharpening after it has hit some metal. That way they know what's up with that blade and do a very close inspection of the blade.
If they determine that it could be sharpened the do. If they determine that it is junk then they replace it with a new blade at the box price.
I keep track of my blades by serial number written down on a tag. And I re-attach the tag to the blades when they come back from resharp. That way I know the history of the blade and whether or not if it has hit metal and been resharpened.
That's just me and the way I do it.
I do grind them some myself and will try and save a blade that has hit metal but sometimes it doesn't work out.
Jim Rogers
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Offline Beavertooth

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2018, 03:42:25 PM »
I was told by woodmizer resharp if there is more than 3 teeth in a row messed up they chunk it.
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Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2018, 04:12:18 PM »
I run my blades until they snap. I sharpen them and if they don't cut good I sharpen
it again and again until I get it right. I never found a blade I could not get to cut
again. One I took 4 teeth clear off the blade. I just kept playing with it till I got it
working again. It might not be worth you'r time to do this but I have nothing but
time. I'll take the challenge. This goes with drill bits, saw blades and what ever
else I can mess with.
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Offline fishfighter

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2018, 04:26:42 PM »
I had some success and some failures. What I had did was just grind off the teeth that took the blunt of metal hit and resharpen the rest of the blade. Sometimes it works and some times it don't.  ;D

Offline Chuck White

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2018, 04:45:01 PM »
If I have a blade and 1 or 2 teeth are messed up to bad, I just take my Vice-Grips and snap them onto the tooth to straighten it up so that it actually becomes a raker and therefor, has no set!
~Chuck~
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Offline Crossroads

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2018, 07:54:34 PM »
I send them in unless I see cracks in the blade. If I have a tooth bend out of shape to the point its leaving marks on the wood, I find it and tap it back in shape with 2 hammers, 1 as a backer and one as a tapper. Hitting small nails, Ive had good luck getting them back from resharp. I had one yesterday though that hit a 3/8 lag bolt. I dug the bolt out and was going to try to finish the cut with that blade. Went about 6 and hit another one :( that blade is toast.

I will start turning then inside out though, thanks for that tip.
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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2018, 08:29:37 PM »
I set and resharpen my own bands and rarely have to scrap one due to nail hit. If you will spend a few minutes checking set and grinding most bands can be salvaged or at least demoted to crappy log status. Frank C.
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2018, 09:24:37 PM »
I sharpen my blades, Use WM double hard 55. When that happens if I can grind a little to fix it I will. If I have to grind all the hard off the top of the tooth to fix it I junk them. I do keep 10 or 20 bad blade for logs I know have iron in them.
I cut lumber full time for a living. For the price of a blade it makes no cense to fool with them.

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2018, 11:16:39 PM »
So these responses lead to the next question...

Is there a good you tube showing how to sharpen or fix bands?  How do I find the offending tooth, any trick to it?  Gauge?  I understand how you sharpen an antique cross cut saw -filing the teeth to the same height  and then sharpening them, but how they are sharpened is different from how a band is sharpened, eh?
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline Percy

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2018, 12:32:41 AM »
I sharpen my blades, Use WM double hard 55. When that happens if I can grind a little to fix it I will. If I have to grind all the hard off the top of the tooth to fix it I junk them. I do keep 10 or 20 bad blade for logs I know have iron in them.
I cut lumber full time for a living. For the price of a blade it makes no cense to fool with them.
^^^^ this ^^^^
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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2018, 05:39:17 AM »
If I have a blade and 1 or 2 teeth are messed up to bad, I just take my Vice-Grips and snap them onto the tooth to straighten it up so that it actually becomes a raker and therefor, has no set!

I tried that and just finish breaking those teeth off. ;D Every time I had hit metal, I wipe out at lease 4 teeth in a row. :(

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2018, 07:37:08 AM »
Brad, if I've hit a nail I first , wile the bands on the mill, check for the steel curls on the tooth tips then for over bent teeth. With the band tensioned on the mill, not running, I run a piece of sticking over the band. With some practice you can detect over bent teeth and reset them with a adjustable wrench. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline Chuck White

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2018, 07:42:42 AM »
If I have a blade and 1 or 2 teeth are messed up to bad, I just take my Vice-Grips and snap them onto the tooth to straighten it up so that it actually becomes a raker and therefor, has no set!

I tried that and just finish breaking those teeth off. ;D Every time I had hit metal, I wipe out at lease 4 teeth in a row. :( 

If the tooth was bad to begin with, you're still not out anything!   ;)

Just don't want anything sticking out to put marks on the lumber!   :)
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain the Wood-Mizer.
I LOVE MY SAWMILL

Offline slider

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2018, 07:59:28 AM »
Brad, Cooks has a good youtube video on band service. Especially the part on dressing the stone which is key to getting the profile correct.

Like chuck i don't like tooth marks on the lumber .On framing lumber it's not a big deal but on the good stuff those marks just drive me nuts.

Finding the offending teeth is a challenge for me but if you have the time it's worth it.

Sometimes i just down set the whole band then reset and sharpen.
al glenn

Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2018, 09:34:11 AM »
When a blade hits metal I take it off and put a white wire tie on it, my code for metal.

At home, I clean all my bands with my drill press, and I set the metal ones aside together.  When I get to those, I lay them on the table saw, put on my glasses, and pull it around as I look at the teeth.  Like Bandmiller said metal damage often results first in curled over metal on the tooth face.  As I look at the teeth from the top with the right light it is easy to spot more heavy damage which is rounding over of the tip.   If I think this will take more than 2 or 3 passes on the grinder to remove, I will measure the band width and decide (usually) to discard the blade (more likely if the band width says it is half used up or more).

To repair the blade, I mark a spot with a sharpie inside and out, then go around first with my fingernail or if that gets hard, with a flat file, and flip off the curled over metal with a clockwise upward twist of the file.  Sometimes I also take a light file stroke on the face of the tip.   If I encounter anything that is more time consuming the blade gets trashed.

I don't have patience or time anymore to spend more than about 5 minutes on a blade saving operation outside of the regular clean-sharpen-set cycle.   The customer already paid for the blade and I don't have to make money this way.

Regarding finding over-set teeth, it would be great to be able to do this quickly on the mill when I pick up unacceptable kerf marks but the blade is still sharp.

I haven't had luck trying to feel for the overset tooth with an adjustable wrench, there's too much slop in mine.  I could probably lock my digital caliper and use it to scan the blade,  but it is a Starrett and I can't bring myself to be dragging blade teeth through it.   Doesn't work for me to be spending any time on this during sawing.

Back home, I can put a blade on the setter, back off the pushers, and watch the dials as the blade goes around. But this requires 2 passes watching one or the other dial. It's not that hard and I can bend the teeth back easy as I find them.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker, hydraulics everywhere), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.

Offline tawilson

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2018, 09:52:07 AM »
Terrific, I have the same setter/sharpener as you. In the sharpener manual there's a page where they recommend using a Woodmizer wash tank which performs a few functions, including down setting, deburring and cleaning. I have searched and can't find anything anywhere on one. Do you or anyone else know of this?
Tom
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BMS250 and BMT250 sharpener/setter

Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2018, 01:22:39 PM »
What page?  You sure you're not looking at a ReSharp ad?   :D  Seriously I think I saw that too but can't see it in my manual here now.

Down setting and de-burring in a tank?  Guess I can imagine doing that in a tank with some strong acid but the tank would need to be plastic and the blades would be thinner when they come out.  :o :o
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker, hydraulics everywhere), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.

Offline tawilson

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2018, 01:43:22 PM »
"When using a Wood-Mizer wash tank,  blades are run through a cycle that cleans,  deburrs, and washes the blade in solvent.  The wash cycle also includes a set of rollers to pinch the blades to flatten and equalise the set.  This allows for the blades to be properly set during the setting process."
There's more but here's a pertinent quote. I'll put up a screenshot of the page when I can.
Page 6-3.
Tom
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2018, 03:23:46 PM »
"When using a Wood-Mizer wash tank,  blades are run through a cycle that cleans,  deburrs, and washes the blade in solvent.  The wash cycle also includes a set of rollers to pinch the blades to flatten and equalise the set.  This allows for the blades to be properly set during the setting process."
There's more but here's a pertinent quote. I'll put up a screenshot of the page when I can.
Page 6-3.
Page 6-3 in my BMS200/250 sharpener manual has a parts diagram of the grinder assembly on it which by coincidence is also section 6.3.

like i said I saw what you are mentioning somewhere. Curious what that is about I think it is for ReSharp operators.  Never saw that wash tank advertised anywhere on their web site
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker, hydraulics everywhere), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.

Offline tawilson

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2018, 04:19:48 PM »
"When using a Wood-Mizer wash tank,  blades are run through a cycle that cleans,  deburrs, and washes the blade in solvent.  The wash cycle also includes a set of rollers to pinch the blades to flatten and equalise the set.  This allows for the blades to be properly set during the setting process."
There's more but here's a pertinent quote. I'll put up a screenshot of the page when I can.
Page 6-3.
Page 6-3 in my BMS200/250 sharpener manual has a parts diagram of the grinder assembly on it which by coincidence is also section 6.3.

like i said I saw what you are mentioning somewhere. Curious what that is about I think it is for ReSharp operators.  Never saw that wash tank advertised anywhere on their web site
Actually it's section 6-3 and page 6-6. This is in the PDF I downloaded. It may be different in my paper manual but that's where I first saw it. I've looked for it on their site too.
Tom
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BMS250 and BMT250 sharpener/setter

Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2018, 04:41:43 PM »
Sure it's the sharpener not the setter manual?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT   2001 WM LT40SHDD (42HP Kubota, Accuset2, FAO's, Lubemizer, debarker, hydraulics everywhere), Peterson WPF 10-30 with chain slabber. Logrite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.

Offline tawilson

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2018, 04:51:46 PM »
Sure it's the sharpener not the setter manual?
I'm sure. It's in the Resarp Process section. Another quote:
"The ReSharp process is designed to take a used, dull blade and bring it back to maximum performance. There are three basic stages in the ReSharp operation which can be performed in different sequences dependent on the equipment that you have,  the quality of the incoming blades and the final result required. Grinding Washing Setting"
I've searched and have never seen it discussed or any pictures except the one in the manual, either here or anywhere else online.
Tom
2017 LT40HDG35 WIDE
BMS250 and BMT250 sharpener/setter

Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2018, 07:13:10 PM »
I don't wash. ;D

Offline slider

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2018, 07:31:55 PM »
I do .I want to keep my wife.
al glenn

Offline Chuck White

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2018, 07:53:04 PM »
"When using a Wood-Mizer wash tank,  blades are run through a cycle that cleans,  deburrs, and washes the blade in solvent.  The wash cycle also includes a set of rollers to pinch the blades to flatten and equalise the set.  This allows for the blades to be properly set during the setting process."
There's more but here's a pertinent quote. I'll put up a screenshot of the page when I can.
Page 6-3. 

This procedure sounds like the cleaner, downsetter, washer & setter at the Wood-Mizer Hannibal shop!

Which is where I originally got the idea to make (have made) my own downsetter!
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain the Wood-Mizer.
I LOVE MY SAWMILL

Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2018, 07:55:12 PM »
I do .I want to keep my wife.


The blade. Just put it on the setter then sharpen. ;D

Offline tawilson

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2018, 08:11:24 PM »
"When using a Wood-Mizer wash tank,  blades are run through a cycle that cleans,  deburrs, and washes the blade in solvent.  The wash cycle also includes a set of rollers to pinch the blades to flatten and equalise the set.  This allows for the blades to be properly set during the setting process."
There's more but here's a pertinent quote. I'll put up a screenshot of the page when I can.
Page 6-3. 

This procedure sounds like the cleaner, downsetter, washer & setter at the Wood-Mizer Hannibal shop!

Which is where I originally got the idea to make (have made) my own downsetter!
I figured their shop had one so I planned on checking it out next trip there. Downsetting and de-burring are what interested me. I clean the blades before I take them off the mill usually.
Tom
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BMS250 and BMT250 sharpener/setter

Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2018, 08:18:45 PM »
Sure it's the sharpener not the setter manual?
I'm sure. It's in the Resarp Process section. Another quote:
"The ReSharp process is designed to take a used, dull blade and bring it back to maximum performance. There are three basic stages in the ReSharp operation which can be performed in different sequences dependent on the equipment that you have,  the quality of the incoming blades and the final result required. Grinding Washing Setting"
I've searched and have never seen it discussed or any pictures except the one in the manual, either here or anywhere else online.
Strange. No ReSharp section in my manual.  But I"ve seen what you quote.  I'll have to look at the other paperwork I have. 

In any case it's a plug for ReSharp, that washer is not something WM sells.   I think there would be a good market for a simple downsetter device if they sold one. 
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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2018, 12:25:33 AM »
Milling yesterday, and I started with a log that was full of nails. I hit one and then I did as Bandmiller2 said and looked for the curls on the teeth.  About a dozen teeth were affected and had the curl or at lease something I could feel with my finger nail on the leading edge of the tooth.  So I marked all those teeth with a red paint pen and then took a small flat file and hit the leading edge to take off the curl and flatten it.  I tried the band and it was cutting again.  I ended up taking off the other 3 slabs plus one 5/4 board.  I then went to start taking an 8/4 board and zing!  I had to pitch it this time- too many teeth affected.  Hey, that saved me losing a new band.  I have other bands I'd set aside from nail strikes, but I discovered that I need a better way to hold to inspect and work on bands.  I know I saw a post once where someone on here created a couple wheels on a bench to install the blade so they could work on and rotate it.  Now sure how they tensioned it.  Anybody got a link to that post?
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

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Re: Woodmizer band sharpening and nails
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2018, 11:25:41 PM »
Terrific, I have the same setter/sharpener as you. In the sharpener manual there's a page where they recommend using a Woodmizer wash tank which performs a few functions, including down setting, deburring and cleaning. I have searched and can't find anything anywhere on one. Do you or anyone else know of this?
I've visited Resharp in Ga.  Basically, the cleaning machine looks like a self feeding sharpening machine with many motorized, spinning wire brushes scrubbing the band with oil or or solvent, much like a car wash for saw blades.

 I saw some bands that were so rusty and dirty it looked like they had been stored in wet mud, and after the wire scrubbing and cleaning they looked pretty good.

When I hit a nail, I pull the band and then when I have time, put it in my dual tooth setter and go once around, checking the dial indicators, setting the band per usual, and resetting over set teeth or bent teeth, and what ever else was damaged.  Then I'll CBN it back to sharp and cut with it.  If I have more than three busted off teeth consecutively, I chunk the band. 
HobbyHardwoodAlabama.com


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