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Author Topic: Any hydraulic geniuses?  (Read 2179 times)

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Offline Pclem

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Any hydraulic geniuses?
« on: January 12, 2018, 01:00:22 PM »
I've got a small setup with a skidsteer and forwarding trailer. Any chance there's a way to power the trailer wheels off the skidsteer? Maybe with a motor driving each wheel? Running off the auxillarys? Probably be hard to keep same speeds in sync? I know a single bunk forwarder is made for the job, but this setup sure is handy for small jobs. Very nimble in the woods too :)
Dyna SC16. powersplit. supersplitter. firewood kilns.bobcat T190. ford 4000 with forwarding trailer. a bunch of saws, and a question on my sanity for walking away from a steady paycheck

Offline Stuart Caruk

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2018, 03:38:31 PM »
Sure, but it isn't going to be cheap. You can buy a hydraulic motor, wheel drive assembly (with a brake if you want it) for around $2500 a pop. Weld them on, slap on your tires and wheels and hook them to your aux hydraulics. If you want independent motor control wire in a 12VDC diverter or flow control that you can trigger with one of your toggle switches to send the flow to one wheel or both.
Stuart Caruk
Wood-Mizer LX450 Diesel w/ debarker and home brewed extension, live log deck and outfeed rolls. Woodmizer twin blade edger, Barko 450 log loader, Clark 666 Grapple Skidder w/ 200' of mainline. Bobcats and forklifts.

Offline bushmechanic

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2018, 04:01:16 PM »
 In Nova Scotia lots of guy's used to have power trailers behind there farm tractors. They ran the differential on the trailer off of the power take off of the tractor and only used it to get unstuck. May work for you if you have a farm tractor.

Offline 2308500

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2018, 05:36:20 PM »
many power carts here in nova scotia were built using the back end of an old truck with a 2 speed rear axle and the transmission.  with ground speed pto on the tractor if you could match the ratios and gearing properly, it was an almost unstoppable combo.

when travelling between jobs, the operator would shift the axle between hi  an low into  "mexican neutral", to save wear and abuse on components.

this same setup could be used with a hi torque hydraulic motor on your skid steer, but, as stated earlier, it may not be cheap.

Offline lopet

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2018, 06:55:07 PM »
Yes, with a truck axle and a differential you probably get away for a lot less money.

Here is just another idea, years ago I ran a old forklift on top of a old barn to stack big square bales. I got it cheap without a motor, pulled the tranny and coupled the original crank driven hydraulic pump with a five horse electric motor I had. Then I went and bought a high speed hydraulic motor and mounted it direct on the diff. A food pedal and a old loader valve with a linkage was doing the forward and reverse.  Just remember the faster a motor spins the less torque it has and the same thing the other way around.  You find pretty rugged ones on old sander boxes.
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Offline Gearbox

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2018, 07:19:33 PM »
Put a large BIG 80 roller sprocket on each wheel and run one motor . you would need a case drain hose and a over riding clutch  . Or just chance out the axel for a rear end and run a HYD.motor on it. You will have to limit the speed to your hydraulic flow or use a over riding clutch .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

Offline Riwaka

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2018, 07:22:33 PM »
Does the Bobcat have any trackgrips on the tracks to aid traction in the snow? Pretty hard on the tracks though in hard ice?. or go to a modern track on the bobcat with plenty steel in the track and a big 'rubber grouser bar'.
https://youtu.be/5rukCSDmKB8?t=3m19s

Would a tandem axle trailer spread the weight better.?

Offline krusty

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2018, 08:15:50 PM »
Do you have more pics and details on that trailer? It looks sweet!

Offline Pclem

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2018, 08:38:02 PM »
All good ideas guys! Glad to know it's possible. I'd like to stick with the skidsteer rather than the tractor. It works much better to [short skid] to the trails than a tractor. And much easier to transport it and the trailer.
Dyna SC16. powersplit. supersplitter. firewood kilns.bobcat T190. ford 4000 with forwarding trailer. a bunch of saws, and a question on my sanity for walking away from a steady paycheck

Offline Pclem

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2018, 08:44:34 PM »
Do you have more pics and details on that trailer? It looks sweet!

I bought it from a guy off craigslist a few years ago. It's got a long cylinder on the front that hooks up to auxillarys to dump. I don't use the dump with the bobcat. Just lift the loader up and "shake it off". I've used it with the tractor, but you've gotta have pretty nice wood so the logs slide off. Crooked stuff gets jammed up sometimes.
Dyna SC16. powersplit. supersplitter. firewood kilns.bobcat T190. ford 4000 with forwarding trailer. a bunch of saws, and a question on my sanity for walking away from a steady paycheck

Offline Pclem

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2018, 08:52:39 PM »
Does the Bobcat have any trackgrips on the tracks to aid traction in the snow? Pretty hard on the tracks though in hard ice?. or go to a modern track on the bobcat with plenty steel in the track and a big 'rubber grouser bar'.
https://youtu.be/5rukCSDmKB8?t=3m19s

Would a tandem axle trailer spread the weight better.?

I stuck a few 3/8 grade 8 bolts through the underside. Might try longer and more of them. I think those trackgrips would be rough on frozen ground. I used to have a wheeled bobcat with steel loegerings, and welded some short snow chain links across the bars, and it was very rough. Also, the snow didn't clean out and stuck to them alot making it worse
Dyna SC16. powersplit. supersplitter. firewood kilns.bobcat T190. ford 4000 with forwarding trailer. a bunch of saws, and a question on my sanity for walking away from a steady paycheck

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2018, 08:58:16 PM »
The challenge is you have variable displacement drive pumps feeding the track finals, and a fixed displacement auxilliary flow out of the work ports on the loader couplers, which is fed off the charge pump.  The charge pump really is to feed the drive pumps first and is meant to be run at rated rpm.  Idling down to vary flow will result in lowered charge pressure which os detrimental to the high pressure drive pumps that make up the hydrostatic system.

So basically, its easy to use the remote hydraulics to feed a hyd motor coupled to a truck differential, but you cant modulate speed and it might be pretty challenging to operate where you arent fighting the two different speeds.  Freewheeling could also be a challenge.

I can think of a hundred rub goldberg ways to try this however i think the most straightforward is a truck axle and driveshaft in the trailer.  The driveshaft would go to a carrier bearing with a belt sheave on it. Next to that, mount a variable displacement piston style (swash plate) drive motor also with a sheave and belts.  Use an idler to tension the belts when drive is needed.  When you want to freewheel down the road, pop the belts off.  The driveshaft allows the motor to be placed up near the tongue with the motor up out of harms way, no crawling under, snagged hoses or hooking it on a stump or submerged in mud.

The sheaves give a coarse speed adjustment incase you get things way off, and the variable swash plate kinda gives you a high/low range.  This is exactly how the transport speed and work speed is achieved in burkeen trenchers and tennant sweepers.  You get power in forward and reverse, with a neutral and two modes with a fairly easy/light and possibly affordable setup if youre good at scavenging.


The really complicated expensive way is to find a burnt matching bobcat undercarriage and build a bunk ontop.  Your pumps could be run to the other drive motors in series or parallel.  Series will run normal speed, parallel will run half.  Thats the other way to get a hydraulic rabbit/turtle speed.  A switching valve that goes from series to parallel.
Revelation 3:20

Offline Pclem

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2018, 09:17:05 PM »
Do you have more pics and details on that trailer? It looks sweet!



Dyna SC16. powersplit. supersplitter. firewood kilns.bobcat T190. ford 4000 with forwarding trailer. a bunch of saws, and a question on my sanity for walking away from a steady paycheck

Offline DaleK

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2018, 07:53:42 AM »
Might look around for a tractor wrecking yard and see if you can find any older tractors that had hydraulic front wheel assist on them that you could swap out. There were a bunch around in the late 70s/early 80s, bigger JD 30 and 40 series tractors come to mind
If I Sang about a saddle with a lasso and a gun,
You'd thing about a cowboy beneath the prairie sun
But I sing about a pine tree with a bucksaw and an axe
I sing about a big man, The Canadian Lumberjack.

Offline DaleK

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2018, 07:58:55 AM »
Or rear wheel drive off a wrecked combine would work too
If I Sang about a saddle with a lasso and a gun,
You'd thing about a cowboy beneath the prairie sun
But I sing about a pine tree with a bucksaw and an axe
I sing about a big man, The Canadian Lumberjack.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2018, 09:04:01 AM »
Did you put a hitchball in the stump bucket?


I jockey around and dump a small trailer with my stump bucket as well, but it has a pintle and i capture it with a grapple tine.  This way i can pick it up and put it down without getting out of the machine.
Revelation 3:20

Offline Pclem

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2018, 09:30:28 AM »
I torched a hole in the middle tooth of the bucket. Just a hitch pin. I should add some metal to the stump bucket to close tighter. Right now it doesn't close tight enough to grab a pintle. Good idea Mike!
Dyna SC16. powersplit. supersplitter. firewood kilns.bobcat T190. ford 4000 with forwarding trailer. a bunch of saws, and a question on my sanity for walking away from a steady paycheck

Offline Gearbox

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2018, 10:47:40 AM »
I think what you are looking for is some help in the tough spots and corners not full time assist .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

Offline Puffergas

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2018, 11:54:39 AM »
Maybe move the axle back a foot or two. That will put more weight on the skid steer.

Maybe a walking beam axle would go over rough ground easier but maybe turn a bit harder.

Nice rig ! ! !     8)
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, IHC 300 Utility, Timberjack 225D, Burg Bandsaw mill, Steiger Bearcat II

Offline Riwaka

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Re: Any hydraulic geniuses?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2018, 01:53:43 PM »
If you had the dollars another machine - a Morooka (track dumper) with a log deck that is interchangeable with a tipper deck or a small JD or like bulldozer (dozer track loader?) that the trailer can be kept hooked to. There are a few accidents when the trailer is unsecured or is reattached etc sometimes. Probably find a dozer that is not as worn out as what the old forwarders are.
e.g https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/22720515/1985-deere-450d


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