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Author Topic: Clearing a dense population of Ailanthus trees.  (Read 8898 times)

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Offline Weekend_Sawyer

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Clearing a dense population of Ailanthus trees.
« on: January 31, 2006, 08:45:47 AM »
  I have somewhere between 3 and 5 acres of Alanthus trees on my 45 acre property in the eastern panhandle of West Virginia. I am going to get midievel on them this spring. They are growing densely on the side of a fairly steep slope so dozing them will not work. They range from sprouts to 6Ē. I plan on getting a back pack sprayer and a machete and hiking the hills hacking and spraying.
I have done some research and they say that if you hack around a trunk and spray it with roundup it will suck it in and kill the tree. And if you spray the sprouts leaves they too will die.

Has anyone tried this, what were your results?

I tried girdling alone a couple large trees on our hunt club property a few years ago and the root sprouts were amazing. I would say that 3 trees close together sent up sprouts in about a 50'x50' area.

What do you all think. I know this will take time but it is a great excuse to get into the hills. Any other ways to kill these trees? After purchasing this property I have more time than money.

Some time this year I hope to get a forester to come out and discuss forest management. There will be alot of open slope to repopulate when this is cleared.

Jon

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Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

Offline estiers

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Alanthus trees.
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2006, 09:51:50 AM »
Unless you get incomplete kill, roundup should do the trick without sprouts.  It translocates in the phloem, so it goes up and down.  You have to be knowledgable about the time of year of course, if there is no movement down (ie the spring) then no chemical will get to the roots.  I have heard of even just tapping the tree with roundup and not having to girdle.  As always, pay close attention to labelled rates as you don't want to break the law.
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Offline Weekend_Sawyer

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Alanthus trees.
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2006, 08:40:22 AM »

 One of the problems with doing research on the web is the thousands of hits you get on a search string. Soooo I cannot find the article again but on one of the many sites I found said that if you cut an Alanthus down the energy will go into root sprout and pull nutrients (and whatever you spray on it) from the stump.

I am wondering if this will work in the spring.

Obviously I am chomping at the bit to get started so I am going to run a test in an area that is easy to work. Where I'll girdle some and cut some off and see what happens. That way If I get a heavy root sprout I can treat it next year.

Jon
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Offline Fore Knobs

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Alanthus trees.
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2006, 02:01:50 PM »
It seems like the trick is being able to kill the root system.  In other words, you can kill the head, but not beast.  Personally, Iíve effectively killed Ailanthus using Tordon (picloram) applied to a few girdled stems.  The drawback with Tordon is the tendency to remain in the soil for a while, and leach into groundwater.  So, mass application might not be wise, especially near riparian areas.

Iíve never experimented with Round-Up due to reports of its supposed ineffectiveness in Ailanthus. However, Iíve stumbled across various scientific reports that suggest otherwise. 

I guess the bottom line is that any efforts to control Ailanthus on a large scale will require multiple years of herbicide application.

Offline Weekend_Sawyer

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Alanthus trees.
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2006, 02:36:24 PM »

 I definatley don't want anything that remains in the ground or gets into the water.
I understand that when roundup hits the ground it, somehow, goes inert, or atleast away.

I agree that this will be an ongoing project but that's ok.

I have another problem on my hillside, the old logging roads and some of the open areas are filled with Chinese Stilt Grass.  Roundup says it will get rid of that too! Wonder if it will work on my ex?

Jon
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Offline Phorester

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Alanthus trees.
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2006, 09:53:38 PM »
Your proposed methods should work.  Been done successfully here in Virginia not far from your panhandle property.  RoundUp binds to soil particles, which is why it doesn't move in the soil.  But if the soil moves, like being washed into a creek for instance, it of course takes the Roundup with it. It also has a short half life, breaks down in a few months in the soil.

One time we had a problem with an applicator that used dingy water in his sprayer.  The Roundup bound to the soil in the mix water and didn't work. 

It should work on the stiltgrass too, but that might be a losing battle.  That stuff is everywhere and reseeds prolifically.

Sorry, probably won't work on your ex.  RoundUp is so safe you can drink a cup of the concentrate and not die.  I expect then you'd have an ex with one heck of a tummy ache, but she'd live.  ;D
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Offline Bill H

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Alanthus trees.
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2006, 10:29:52 PM »
Roundup works, from what I understand your success rate will be lower in April to Early June period. I was dumb three years ago and cut down about 30-40 of them and learned that the forester was right when he said that just sorta pisses them off >:( >:(. So now I am smarter and use the frill and kill or hack n squirt method in the July to October time frame with 98 to 99% success :) :). I believe you will find this to be true as well. Also use the farmer grade 35 to 41% active ingredient and don't add more than 30% water, and you can kill them. 8) 8). Good luck Bill
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Offline ToadHill

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Alanthus trees.
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2006, 01:55:57 AM »
If you go to Forestry Supply Co.  you can buy a product called Garlon, mix as directed and spray on the bottom18" of the trunk.  It will kill the tree and work its way into the root system to keep the roots from sprouting.  I have used it on Beech in my woods with great success.  I like it because you don't have to blaze the trunk for it to work.
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Offline bugboy

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Alanthus trees.
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2006, 06:13:17 PM »
Garlon will work well.  Arsenal, made by BASF, does a really good job too.

good luck.

Offline Weekend_Sawyer

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Alanthus trees.
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2006, 04:04:19 PM »

 I went to Forest Supply and bought a 2.5 gal can of Garlon 3A. They say hack and squirt and stump treatment can be done year round but works best during active grotwth.

 Some of the other research says that if nothing else cut down the female trees to stop the seed spreading.

I am going up this weekend and going to cut down some of the females that I have found and stump treat them. Last weekend I sprayed a bunch of 1" sprouts with roundup so I hope to see how they are doing.

I did see where Garlon 3A has 44% active ingredient, Tricloplyr (sp?), where Roundup has 2%.

We will see how it goes.

jon
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Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

Offline Don P

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Alanthus trees.
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2006, 01:33:34 PM »
I hate Ailan ... Ilanthu ... Alainthi ... I hate that stuff  >:(

Just a heads up to check this thread out too;

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=19199.0
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Offline Weekend_Sawyer

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Alanthus trees.
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2006, 11:09:07 AM »

 Hacking and slashing, machete in one hand, spray botle in the other, a lot of trees got bit this weekend!

I hack around the tree 2 - 3 feet above the ground leaving 1 - 2 inches between cuts, then spray the Garlan3A in the cut. This works better than cutting the tree down and spraying the stump for a couple of reasons. Slashing is faster and it takes more product to cover the cut area of a stump. trees under 2" I did cut off and then spray.

 The saplings that I had sprayed last weekend on the leavs looked quite dead this weedend, this also included a couple of Japanese Barberry and a Multifloral Rose and of course the Ailanthus.

 I also was able to plant 450 Loblolly Pines that a Forester gave me saturday! I attended my first Forestry Seminar ever and got to talk to lots of great people. After the seminar we went out into the field and planted a bunch of trees and shrubs to learn proper technique, and to get a bunch of trees in the ground! Afterward when I was telling the Forester that I was heading over the mountain to my place he gave me the trees. What a great weekend!

Jon
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Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

Offline Weekend_Sawyer

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Alanthus trees.
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2006, 08:24:44 AM »

 Update, 3 weeks later.

 There were some trees I had slashed and sprayed with roundup just to see what would happen. They look sick, leavs are beginning to wilt and turn brown. We will see if they will die.

The couple hundred that I slashed and sprayed with Garlon 3A look dead, the leaves are brown and hanging down, completley wilted!

The ones that I cut down and stump treated have no sprouts yet.

I have thousands more to attack!

Jon
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Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

Offline Phorester

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Alanthus trees.
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2006, 11:39:24 PM »

"Slashing is faster and it takes more product to cover the cut area of a stump. trees under 2" I did cut off and then spray."

This is probably a moot point now, but you don't have to cover the entire surface of a big stump with herbicide.  Only the first inch around the outside.  That's where the cambium layer is located, and is the only part of the stump that will absorb the chemical.  The rest of the stump is dead cells.

I'm sure you knew about that,  but this is how it comes into play when you do a cut-surface treatment with herbicides.

Still, though, it probably is faster to hack and squirt a big tree than cutting it down and painting the cambium layer.

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Offline Frickman

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Alanthus trees.
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2006, 08:55:13 PM »
I'm doing a little land clearing job now for a new house. Out on the log deck, where the front yard/driveway will be, is a 16" dbh alanthus, or what we call tree of heaven, surrounded by lots of saplings. The landowner started talking about how nice that tree will look out front. I told him enjoy it now, it won't be there by the end of this week. I said that it is my responsibility as a forest industry professional to rid the world of as many trees of heaven as possible. If he wants a tree out front there are plenty of nice maple saplings back in the woods he can transplant.
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Offline Weekend_Sawyer

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Alanthus trees.
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2006, 07:57:02 AM »


 Good for you Frickman, the more I get into this the more I find these trees everywhere! They just don't grow in Brooklyn anymore.

Phonester, I should have known that!

 I am heading back up this weekend to hack and slash again.

Jon

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Offline Weekend_Sawyer

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Ailanthus trees.
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2006, 08:40:03 AM »

 Update,

I spent the weekend pulling up sprouts, and they are EVERYWHERE!. I don't want to spray all of them because it would be costly and not very nice to surrounding plants, so I pulled a couple hundred saplings out, they pull easy in the mountain soil. The deer are helping to keep the sprouts cropped down too. Another reason I don't want to spray them.

 The roundup treated trees are still sick looking but seem to be recovering! I gave some of them another hack and a shot of Garlon.  The Garlon treated trees have lost most of their leaves and when I took a slice off with my machete the felt kinda dry. I still have a large untreated area and my neighbor has more. I am going to offer to help them get rid of their Ailanthus too.

Jon
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Offline Mr Mom

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Ailanthus trees.
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2006, 09:00:42 AM »
     Have you tryed brush and weed killer?? i think that is the name of it.
     My dad used to use it all the time.



     Thanks Alot Mr Mom

Offline Weekend_Sawyer

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Ailanthus trees.
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2006, 01:25:50 PM »
 6 months after my first trees were hacked.

I have noticed that a lot of the garlon treated trees are showing a white fungus looking growth around the area of treatment. I can't wait till next spring to see what comes up!
 
 I am nolonger going to pull sprouts. My new approach is to let the deer have the sprouts, they seem to love them and have them stripped clean and are even clipping most of them way back. Pulling them is time consuming and I would not like to treat the sprouts and then have the deer eat them and then have me eat the deer! Anything that gets larger than my thumb I will take care of.

Jon
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Offline WDH

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Re: Clearing a dense population of Ailanthus trees.
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2007, 07:13:39 PM »
What is the update on the garlon treatment?  I use Tordon 101M and it is deadly with a hack-and-squirt treatment.  Have not seen any residual damage as long as you confine the Tordon to the hack in the plant.  Have done thousands of weed trees this way with no ill effects.  What is the status on the Ailanthus?  Did the garlon do the job?  I have found round-up is best as a foliar spray and not as good as an injection or stump treatment.  If you spray broadleaf species, I have found that garlon rules :).
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