General lack of respect for the Dead, in my town.

[Jim_Rogers]

This is a bit of a rant, but also to let you know what's going on.

For a while I have been volunteering as a member of the cemetery committee for the cemetery where my father is buried. His parents, my aunts which are both my father's sisters, and most likely more relatives that I don't know about.

My mother was on the committee up until a few years ago, and when she stepped down, she asked me if I'd take her place.

I said sure.

What it means is that I go to one or two meeting, (that last about an hour) once or twice a year and listen to the reports and see what's going on and normally nothing special is going on.

Then the lady, whom I've known since grade school, and she works for the church as the church secretary, came to the meeting, and said that with this interest in things like Ancestry dot com there were a lot of people coming to the church or calling the church to try and find "grandpa or grandma" or great, great, grammy or whomever.
And she had no idea where if even if they were buried in the cemetery right across the street from the church.

So the directors, whom I am one of, decided that they should form a "Records Committee" and get all the records into a computer format so that they can be searched and find "grammy" when someone calls or stops by.

Sounds easy enough.

So I joined that committee and we had about 8 people on it when we started.

At the first meeting we decided to enter all the names into an excel spreadsheet as it was easy to do and we all had that program on our computers. And most everyone knows how to use it. There was basically no cost as this program is normally fairly standard to be in the computer.

The records that the clerk had were all on 3x5 file cards. So we decided that we'd test the format of the excel spreadsheet and then divide up the card and everyone take 100 cards and start entering them into the computer. Then merge the file and have a grand list with everyone's name and dates.

At the second meeting of the records committee when we were going to divide up the cards, myself, the clerk who can barely read and write and who doesn't even own a computer or have email, and one other widow lady showed up. All the other five seemed to be busy and couldn't help.

We got a box of 3x5 file cards from the clerk, and some other things like the plot plan of the cemetery grounds. This plot plan showed the numbers of the grave sites, but it was many years old and not up to date at all.

The lady took the 3x5 cards and being that she's a widow, her husband is buried there, and has a lot of free time on her hands, would enter the info into the spreadsheet.
I volunteered to use my cad program and recreate a new plot plan showing all the grave sites and get it all up to date. And interesting project and for me somewhat fun, as well as a challenge.

After entering all the cards into the spreadsheet and at another meeting, where the clerk, the lady and myself were the only ones present, the clerk informed us that he has some documents known as burial permits for everyone buried there. He told us he had boxes full of them and most likely hundreds and hundreds of them, possibly even thousands.

We were a little shocked that he hadn't mentioned that before. And we requested that he bring them to us so we could enter the information of these documents into the program.
This is the stuff that people want to know when they call the church secretary as well as where grammy is.

The widow lady and I have been working on sorting out the burial permits and getting them entered into the spreadsheet, in a different color font then the 3x5 cards so that we know where the info came from by just looking at the color.

Next, we have names of who bought the grave site, but not always who is buried there. So it was decided that we "walk around" the grave yard and read off the info from the head stones.
This info tells names and dates. We decided to enter this info into the program in the color blue for the stones. So now we have black for the 3x5 cards, red for the permits and now blue for the stones. This system is working good and we have entered lots and lots of info into the spreadsheet. The first box of permits had 460 in it. The second box had 90. And he said he had at least two more briefcases full of them, which we haven't seen yet.

During one of our many "one hour" walk arounds we observed a pedestrian walking his dog in the cemetery. I informed him that "dogs were not allowed" in the cemetery whether or not if he picked up after it or not. This is not a public place for walking a dog.

Our cemetery rules state that unless you own a plot or have a direct relative buried there then you are not allowed in. It is private property. If you are a guest then you have to be accompanied by a direct relative of a person buried there.

I was told by the clerk that he had posted "no dogs allowed" signs before and that they were pulled down in less than a week.

Knowing this I decided to not spend any money on signs, as I wasn't authorized by the committee to spend any money on anything at all.

I printed up some "no dogs allowed" signs and put it in a clear plastic sleeve and stapled it onto a 1x12 and attached the 1x12 to a piece of plastic pipe I had laying around. I found some old metal and pounded that into the ground and bolted the pipe to the metal. I made three of them for the three main entrances to the cemetery. I installed them the other day.

Here is a shot of one of them:



 

I was hoping that these would last a while.

This morning on my way in, I drove by the cemetery like I do everyday, and I noticed this:



 

Someone had between 7pm last night and 7:45am this morning taken a knife and cut the sign out of the backboard.

I have replaced the sign and it is now covered with plexiglas so that they can't just cut it out again.

Last week I wrote a letter to the editor of our local newspaper telling them about our rules about who can enter the cemetery and about our rule of "no dogs allowed".

Now, I'm not a dog hater, I don't own a dog, but I don't hate them. It just that a cemetery is not the place to walk your dog, and let him/her go to the bathroom there whether or not if you pick it up.

I haven't seen my letter to the editor as the paper only comes out once a week, and it due out this coming Thursday. I also send it to another editor for a another paper for the town next over from us, that the cemetery is on the town line with. And they will be publishing it also, but I haven't seen that yet.

In one of my daily "drive bys" I saw our police department car in the very driveway where the sign was vandalized. And I stopped and talked to this officer and told him about our policy of no dogs allowed. I asked him if he could tell anyone he sees walking their dog in our cemetery to not enter. And he said he couldn't do anything until it was posted.

The committee president, a nice little old lady, said to notify the police after I posted it. So I did. I emailed the chief.
And I emailed the chief, again, and told him we already have been vandalized. The signs were there less than two days.
He wants me to file an official report so that he can prepare proper orders for his officers.

I am considering getting a "trailcam" and putting it up in a tree nearby the sign if it happens again.

My rant is that these people in the neighborhood of the cemetery, most I believe don't have relatives there, believe this is public property and they can enter and do whatever they want there. And they have no respect for the dead.

Jim Rogers

[Dave Shepard]

Perhaps the police department should be notified. They may be able to tell you the proper way to post the property. Once it's posted, they should be obligated to keep people out, they are trespassing on private property after all.

[Chuck White]

Lots of disrespect around cemetaries Jim!

Quite a few around here have visiting hours and closed hours posted!   ;)

I do like your sign though, makes a lot of sence too, when someone is walking their dog in the cemetary, and he has to go, guess where he'll cock his leg up! 

Most likely, the owner would just stand there and let the dog do his business!  :-\

EDIT: Locally, here a few days before Halloween some vandalism was done to one of the cemetaries in Canton.  Some headstones were turned, some were tipped over and some were broken.  No clues at this time!

I mean C'MON, at least have some respect for the dead!  :'(

[jamesamd]

You'r,a better Man than anyone,KNOWS,Jim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God BLESS Ya.
Love Ya!!!


Jim

[thecfarm]

Lot of help from the police.  :  By the book.  : Keep at it Jim. I have a dog. I feel I do a good job where I walk her when I am away from home. I had a male dog and I taught him don't even sniff at a car tire.

[Jim_Rogers]

Dave:
I'll go up to the police office and get the paperwork tomorrow and fill out a report about the vandalism and hopefully it will help.

I was thinking that since it has already been vandalized that I would contact a reporter and have them do a story about "Lack of Respect" and see if she'd meet me at the cemetery and do an interview and photo.

The public needs to be educated about this.

Jim Rogers

PS. I was thinking of some catchie phrases like, "how'd you like it if I brought my dog over to your lawn and let him go on that?" "and not pick it up" or "how'd you like me to let my dog go on your grandmother's face......?" That may bring some of this to light.

[Jim_Rogers]

cfarm:

I know most dog owners now take care of their dog's stuff.

But the guy who mows the lawns down there says that not all dog owners pick up after them, at our cemetery.

I don't have a dog, my mother wouldn't let us have one when we were kids but I don't hate dogs I just don't want them going in the cemetery out of respect for the dead.

Jim Rogers

[thecfarm]

Jim,I would NEVER walk my dog at a cemetery. I have brought my dog to my parents grave,but he was in my arms. I did not want him doing anything.

[samandothers]

You are a good person and doing the right thing.  Too bad people have no respect.

[chain]

Yep, same thing here. A little widowed lady who lives very near the local cemetery brings her two dogs [small type] over to the corner each day and allows them to pee & doo around the gravestones. She never thinks a thing about it, no one else does much care either. In fact, the rules are fairly lax, the cemetery is beginning to look like a carnival, hardly any rules to limit types of decor around the gravestones.

Appears some are competing to draw attention..it is quite a mess....and the flags...while only one Old Glory should stand over the cemetery, I've had to call attention to the keeper to attend and replace the tattered or wind-strewn banner. I won't tell about the other flags.

[Jim_Rogers]

One of the tasks assigned to the "records committee" was to identify each veteran's grave so that the local veteran's association can put flags on each one.

Recently we were given a copy of a drawing made in 1940 showing all known veterans at that time. This drawing was created under a WPA project and it showed lots of grave sites that the newer plans did not show. This helped me a lot to find some unknown locations of grave sites. We had the grave site number but not it's location in the grave yard.

As it was done in the late 30's and the page says printed in July of 1940. As of that time we hadn't entered into the second world war. So the list only shows, "Rev" for revolutionary war, "Civil" for the Civil war and "World" which was for world war 1. But at that time there was no world war 2 so it was know as the "world war" and I think it was also called the "World War to end all wars".

Soon we will have a great list to give to the VFW to use to place flags. I don't know how many right now but there will be a lot, if they didn't have the civil war vets listed, because we added a lot of them.

Jim Rogers

PS. signs were all standing this morning, no damage.

[thecfarm]

I posted some of my land when I first had the house built here. Just a way to let the hunters know that something is up. I was talking to one of the locals and mentioned that to him. He got all worked up,and said we have been hunting there for years and will keeping doing it.  :  I just said go ahead and I'll post all 170 acres and call the game wardens and walked away. Now with that situation I can kinda understand where he was coming from. But still did not agree with his reasoning.  ;D But a cemetery???  ???

[red oaks lumber]

 why do we as a soceity feel it nessasary to post signs every where? i have 300 acres with about 100 acres woods. my back fenceline is 3/4 mile long butting up to county land(all woods) the whole distance. in the 40 yrs we lived here never have we put up signs. with no problems either.
my thinking is people see signs as its personally directed at them. weather its for a cemetary or private drive or just wild property.
as for the dog pooping in the cemetary, if it wasnt "private" i i don't think any of it would be a issue. some people do things just for spite.
good luck

[beenthere]

Seems signs that say "NO .........  without permission" are less offensive, IMO.

i.e. "No hunting without permission" or "No trespassing without permission" are easier to accept than just "NO". 
But the "No dogs" may have been trashed just because all of a sudden they were there when someone walking their dogs found them (short term anger/response).
I suspect they got the message and like it or not, will find another place to walk them as most people don't continue to do what others don't accept.

A neater sign would, IMO, get more respect than the original one posted. It looks a bit temporary and not a very "official" one. Maybe that is in the short range plan. Getting support from the local government about such matters would be beneficial.

[WH_Conley]

I don't post my property.I just let everybody know it is reciprocity, if I can't hunt on you, you can't hunt on me. I have been here at this location for 16 years. I have 115 acres and can hunt on over 1000. Seldom do I ever see anybody, it is just the thoughts that they are welcome. I understand that the people that pay the property taxes should have the say over their place. A lot of things work differently in different areas.

[Jim_Rogers]

We are working as a committee. Therefore no one person can spend any money unless the committee ok the expense.
That means I can't spend any money to "buy" any fancy signs. And why would I want to if they are going to be pulled down within a week like I was told.
These rustic "free" signs didn't cost the committee anything. And it's a good thing as one was destroyed already.
Of course the person who did it was upset. His daily walk got changed. Boo hoo on him.
There are miles and miles of roads in my town and a park right across the street from the cemetery where they can walk their dogs all day long, no restrictions. Go over there and do their business on that lawn, not on someone's grave.

Jim Rogers

[chain]

I don't post my property.I just let everybody know it is reciprocity, if I can't hunt on you, you can't hunt on me. I have been here at this location for 16 years. I have 115 acres and can hunt on over 1000. Seldom do I ever see anybody, it is just the thoughts that they are welcome. I understand that the people that pay the property taxes should have the say over their place. A lot of things work differently in different areas.

I would hate to think what would become of our property if we didn't 'Privatize' it. First time we deer hunted on our property[we're absentee landlords] a couple were camping right in the main trail. The next morning I went in on the South end and had a shot at a doe, but missed. An old fellow came down the trail and tried to run me off, saying this property was posted and belonged to his grandma in California, and that he and his buddies had hunted every year [which I didn't doubt] for twenty years! Fortunately, I had my map with me and showed him our property lines we had just painted the month before. I also told him my Dad and brother were just down the road ....just then he said, "son, it don't matter, you just hunt anywhere you please in here!" :D

And last year, a neighbor cut our fence, cut down several young pine and oak for shooting lanes, made two blinds, put corn-bait an salt in front [all on our property]  with out permission. But I believe in keeping good neighbors, I just let them know that I knew what they were doing. :-\

[thecfarm]

About me posting my land.I just want people to know there was a house here now.I still have people walk right down the driveway. I have not had trouble behind the house with people shooting towards it. But last year I had someone shoot right at the front of the house during turkey season. Would you like that red oaks lumber? I only posted behind the house,now I posted both sides of the road. It's kinda like locking your doors,it just stops the honest ones.

[WH_Conley]

I guess we have it pretty good here. The worst trouble is out of town hunters that lease land from a timber company. They don't take the time to find out for sure where their lines are and try to run people off their own property.

[red oaks lumber]

if someone shoots right at your house, their not smart enough to understand  a sign anyway. ;) i'm not pointing fingers, so dont take it that way

[thecfarm]

Sorry to ya red oaks.  ;D

[Jim_Rogers]

Today's update:

The Sargent of the police force called me today to take my statement on the vandalism of the sign at the cemetery. So now I don't have to fill out a paper report. And it is on record, including and emailed photo of the damaged sign.

We did another walk around today, and recorded a lot of info off of some headstones.

We actually found a veteran that wasn't on our veteran's list.

That was the good thing about today's visit.

Next year, hopefully, he will get a flag along with all the others.

Jim Rogers

[Draco]

PS. I was thinking of some catchie phrases like, "how'd you like it if I brought my dog over to your lawn and let him go on that?" "and not pick it up" or "how'd you like me to let my dog go on your grandmother's face......?" That may bring some of this to light.

Jim,
How about?:
"This is private property.  No animals are allowed.  Please respect the departed.  If you and your dog like to spend time here, we have an opening.  Please see the caretaker for details."

[beenthere]

 :D :D :D

[Jim_Rogers]

PS. I was thinking of some catchie phrases like, "how'd you like it if I brought my dog over to your lawn and let him go on that?" "and not pick it up" or "how'd you like me to let my dog go on your grandmother's face......?" That may bring some of this to light.

Jim,
How about?:
"This is private property.  No animals are allowed.  Please respect the departed.  If you and your dog like to spend time here, we have an opening.  Please see the caretaker for details."

I like it. I may use it.
Jim Rogers