Prepping For Spring Planting - Coppicing

[Puffergas]

This spring I planted 1000 Black Locust seedlings a few hundred Norway Spruce (not for coppicing) and some Black Willow. It was a bit of a problem because the year before I didn't have the time to prepare. So I've mowed some strips and next I'll spray weed/grass killer on the strips to give the spring planting a head start.





 



 

The plan is 500 Black Locust and 500 Black Willow for this coming spring.

Jeff

[curdog]

Okay,  I hope I'm not going to show my ignorance , but what is that on the tractor in the second picture?  Is it  used for spraying?

[Puffergas]

Okay,  I hope I'm not going to show my ignorance , but what is that on the tractor in the second picture?  Is it  used for spraying?

Some of the trees end up in it to fuel the tractor.   :-\

[Puffergas]

I tried something a bit different with my firewood



 

It started to sprout so I stuck them in the ground.



 

It's Black Willow (I think).

Should I coat the tops with something?

Can I sharpen one end and drive them into the ground with a sledgehammer?

Will only round wood work or can I split larger diameter trunk wood and plant that?

Thanks,
Jeff

[curdog]

That's pretty interesting.  I've taken black willow branches and bent them to the ground and put dirt on them to have them sprout. We did some stream bank restoration and just stuck black willow limbs in the ground,  but I never knew that a log would sprout like that.
As far as coating, I don't like to coat tree's just because it traps moisture and bacteria.  I may cut it at an angle on top to keep water from standing on the log,  but I've never seen willow logs planted. Hopefully someone has a little more insight on this.

[mesquite buckeye]

I cut a black willow down to mill. Didn't get around to hauling the log off and milling it. By the next year it had rooted hard to the ground. Seems like as long as they have moisture, they will live and root. Not a big fuel producer if you figure fuel density, but fast growing for sure if they have the conditions they like. ;D

Cool fuel supply for the tractor. How well does it work and how long before you have to restoke it? ???

[Puffergas]

Cool fuel supply for the tractor. How well does it work and how long before you have to restoke it? ???

I'm not sure how long it will run. Kind of depends on the fuel and how hard your running it. Oh lets say an hour.

As far as how it runs I'll try to link a couple youtube videos, I'm new at this...

http://youtu.be/hDB5e0_fHPQ

and revving the engine:

http://youtu.be/elDL4OkB9Dg


Jeff

[Puffergas]

It's late in the season so now the big box stores don't have herbicide so off to the Co Op. To make it simple lets say a quart on the shelf cost $50 (generic brand at the big box store was about $30) BUT in the warehouse they have 2 1/2 gallon jugs of generic for $50. That made my day and I'll be shopping at the local Co Op more..

Next lesson was that I should have removed the cut grass after mowing because it had a tendency to cover the growing weeds.

Wish I would have started earlier because it looks like some of the weeds are going dormant and the herbicide may not work on them......   :-[



 

Below is one of the Black Locust I planted this year. Hard to see it in the green grass but it's there....



 

[beenthere]

I think your suspicion is right, that the herbicide is not going to be effective on plants that have quit growing for the season.

A mower deck that belched the cut grass out to the side may have left a cleaner swath.

And a pre-emergence chemical sprayed in the fall may work good for spring planting in place of the broadleaf herbicide. You probably don't want the grass competition either.

[curdog]

You can spray an Imazapyr based herbicide around your locust to keep grass down. But don't spray it around your willows.  I just got done killing grass around my redbuds with arsenal today,  any legume is tolerant to Imazapyr.

[Puffergas]

Thanks curdog, I'll look into that.

[Southside]

Just curious what your project is for. Forage, firewood?

[Puffergas]

Just curious what your project is for. Forage, firewood?

Charcoal, firewood, posts, small saw logs (maybe). One more maybe; honey bees for the Black Locust.

[Puffergas]

About six weeks ago I ordered 100 Black Willow live stakes from Ernst Conservation Seeds in Meadville, PA. The kicker was that they would not ship until the end of November and last week there was over a foot of snow on the ground. But they showed up right before the holidays and the snow was melting.



 

So I spent Thanksgiving afternoon in the Willow Paddies.



 

They came with a 20 plus page manual but only a paragraph applied to my operation. Four-fifths of the stick needs to be in the ground if more sticks above the ground it's OK to trim it down.



  

I used an iron pipe with the end hammered down like a wedge to make the holes. Interesting problem was that even with the end hammered into a wedge mud made it's way up the pipe and out the top (and on us) as I hammered the pipe into the ground....  :'(  Lesson learned...  :D



 

Hard to see the little guys in the above photos but they are there....

Cheers

[Clark]

I have never dealt with black willow but what sort of spacing did you "plant" them at?

It would be interesting to see a picture next summer or fall...you are taking requests, right?

Clark

[Puffergas]

I have never dealt with black willow but what sort of spacing did you "plant" them at?

It would be interesting to see a picture next summer or fall...you are taking requests, right?

Clark

They vary a lot but the rows might average 8 feet wide and tree to tree about 6 feet apart. They are near and under an electric line so they might end up being used for more live stakes.

Sure, pictures in the spring.

This spring I planted 50 Black Willow, from another source, that had roots sprouted and cost a lot more but they mostly died off. I also cut some twigs off some large Black Willow from my uncle's trees. Just stuck them in the ground by hand. They seemed to do good. Maybe I'll post some pictures of them.

[Puffergas]

Below a photo of a Willow stick I stuck in the ground this spring (from my uncles tree).


 



Below a close up of the above tree:


 

[mesquite buckeye]

When I plant trees at my farm the deer coppice them for me. :'(

[Puffergas]

My Locus project turned bust. They were alive at the end of last fall but after the coldest winter that I remember they looked dead in the spring. About a dozen survived at an area with the densest and tallest weeds. Maybe the weeds helped to insulate them or something else..









I sure would have been a happy camper if I ended up with about 300 just like above. Oh well I'll get there but it won't be a strait line.

Time to find a better tree for me.

[Puffergas]

This is the black willow patty update. If I recall correctly they were planted last Nov or Dec. This spring there were some green leaves or what ever starting. Later in the year it looked like another bust, no life found. I made some time a few days ago to pay my last respects and to my surprise two foot willow sprouts..!





 

[Puffergas]

Summer 2016, Black Locus. When they take they'll give the weeds a run for their money, so to speak. More seem to be showing up.

[Magicman]

And I am trying to find ways to kill that stuff.   :-\

[maple man]

Hi Pufferman,
I don't know if you are aware of this but the right black willow can be used in musical instruments and a slab sawn 18"x36"x2" blank for a cello back will bring at least $100 from luthiers. The wood has to be straight with no large knots or bark inclusions but small hard knots give a birds eye type figure that will bring a premium. From what I've seen a black willow could reach 20"+ in less than 40 years and if pruned for a straight bole could be a great investment. If you are interested in more info about this google 'cellos Maine' my website comes up first and you can phone me at the # on my website.

[newforest]

Hello, I have installed scores of thousands of "Live Stakes" - cuttings. It is a very handy method to propagate certain species, most famously Willow though it also works well with the shrub Dogwood species, Elderberry, Ninebark, and Buttonbush.

A few tricks not well known - "Live Stakes" are just that - alive - and they should be treated as such. Don't keep them in black plastic bags out in the sun for a few weeks. They are fairly tough, though nowhere near as fragile as bare-root seedlings they can't be treated like a stack of lumber either.

It helps success to soak the root end in water for 24 hours before installation, and also to cut a fresh slice off the end of the cutting at a 45 degree angle just before putting in the ground. Be careful which end is "up" - some suppliers will paint them to keep that situated for you, but you do have to look at the stakes as they won't work going in upside down. Just look at the dormant leaf buds to figure it out. If you can't figure that out, I'm not sure you will have much luck working with vegetation.

It is best to minimize the # of buds left above ground. If there are too many buds that will sprout, the new root system can't support them all and the cutting can easily die. The 80% below ground is a good rule of thumb, but it can also help to count how many buds are left above ground and minimize it to two sets of them.

I would be careful installing Black Willow stakes. They become an enormous tree eventually - you won't need very many of those. There are many other shrubby Willow species that can be used for other goals like erosion control at a higher density. Too many Black Willow stakes will swallow a project area and make other planting ideas a moot point.



As for Black Locust I would suggest they may have died because they were moved out of their native range - couldn't take the cold. Don't know your seed source or planting location, but original seed provenance can become important even years after a successful planting.

I personally would never plant a Black Locust. A bit of a weed tree ultimately and if you want some Black Locust wood, it was frequently planted wherever Humanity "homesteaded" and you can probably find someone who wants to get rid of it if you try. It is considered useful as a "trainer" tree for a high-quality planting of Black Walnut perhaps, but I would consider other species for that.