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Author Topic: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills  (Read 12385 times)

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Offline beerguy

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Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« on: August 06, 2004, 06:54:51 PM »
Gentlemen,

How do the folks (like me) who have to set tension on their blades manually accomplish this? I have a big bolt that pushes the wheel outboard when tightened, and I use a torque wrench to apply the pressure. How much do you tighten a 221" blade? It is a long way between guides, so is 70 ft/lbs out of the question? When working on aircraft rigging, there is a tool to measure tention from the rigging cable.  Any such animal?
Feel free to talk amongst yourselves....

Offline dail_h

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2004, 07:29:24 AM »
   My Norwood has got a spring that you compress ,keeps the tension right when the band streches
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Offline music_boy

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2004, 07:53:07 AM »
My 18" "economy" Hudson mill requires 40 to 60 lbs torque. I usually use the 50 to 60 range with good results. The blade is 132 " if that matters.
Hope that helps
Rick
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Offline D._Frederick

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2004, 09:32:32 AM »
Beerguy,

If you want to spend the $$, the big saw companies (Simond ) have a tension measuring device that clamps on to the blade and measure the stretch in the blade with a dial indicator. I thought about buying one for my manual mill, but the cost were about equal to the price of hydrualic components to build a hydrualic tensioning system.

Offline twoodward15

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2004, 06:54:49 AM »
that thing is a tensiometer.  I use one checking the rigging on airplanes as well  (KC-135E models as a matter of fact)  They work quite well.  If you really think you need one, I may be able to dig one up around here.  Let me see what I can find!!!
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Offline EZ

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2004, 07:03:21 AM »
My mill also has the screw spring adjustment and in the beginning it was a guessing thing. Then I found out about the fluddering test and it work out well for me.
I put some tension on the blade, start the motor and slowly get the fpm up to max. I then tension the blade until the fludder is gone and turned the tension screw one full turn. After that I shut it down and counted how many turns it took to back the blade off to slack. As for mine it takes 7 turns. I run a 14 ft 6 inch blade. Hope this helps.
EZ

Kirk_Allen

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2004, 08:18:08 AM »
Twoodward15:

I too have used the tensiometers on the C-130 aircraft rigging cables.  It was the same as the one we used on the transient KC-135, C-141- C-5 aircrafts.  

I may be wrong, but I dont think the ones we use on cables is going to be sufficient for band blades.  I would bet a tensiometer for a band blade would be much wider than a cable tensiometer.  It would have to be wide enough and deep enough for the tension device to be applied to the center of the balde width.  

I bet that the brand of those meters are stamped on them somewhere and if so, the company that makes them for cables may have also made them for other applications.  

I no longer have access to a cable tensiometer (Retired AF) but if you do check the brand name and and we could try to contact the company that made it.  If you cant find the company name I may be able to contact some of my friends at Little Rock AFB and get the info.........provided they are back from Iraq.


Offline Gilman

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2004, 09:11:58 AM »
If you want to make a dirt cheap tension gage, you can clamp a 6" dial caliper to your blade.  You can get the correct stress to run your blades from the blade manufacturer.  Open the caliper to 6.000", clamp in place, and then tension your blade until the blade strains the correct amount over over the original 6".  I could help with the calc's if anyone wants to try this.  I'll just need the blade width and thickness and gullet depth.

Duh, I don't need all those dimensions.  :P Strain is strain. Get that dusty old engineering book out engineer boy!  All I need is how many psi the band manufacturer recommends.

The cheapest dial calipers can be found at http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47257


Only $15.99 for a 6" digital caliper.
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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2004, 09:33:03 AM »
  OK, guess it's me. How does this work?? Where do you clamp it, and what reading do you get ???

 Lets say that I want 1600 PSI on the blade tension.???
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Offline Gilman

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2004, 09:34:33 AM »
I gave Simonds a quick call and they said their Red Streaks should be stressed 25,000 to 30,000 psi.

Thus:

Stress = E * Strain
25,000 psi = (29,000,000 psi) * Strain
Strain = 0.00086 in/in

Having a distance of 6" gives 6" * 0.00086" = 0.005" deflection.

So, clamp the caliper, opened to 6.000", on your band with zero tension.  Then tension your band until it reads 6.005".  This will give 25,000 psi in the band.

For 30,000 psi your caliper should read 6.006"

Hope this helps,

Gilman
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Offline Gilman

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2004, 09:39:22 AM »
I called Woodmizer this morning and was told I needed to talk to John Storm to find out how many psi their blade should be set at.  Unfortunately he is in meetings this morning.  If anyone gets info from Munks or other band manufactures, please post it here.  I'll do a quick little chart for the group.
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Offline Gilman

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2004, 09:55:56 AM »
Ran outside and did a quick test.  I'm running 0.042" x 1 1/2" bands, but the strain should remain the same no matter what thickness or width.

Mounting the caliper, Don't try to get exactly 6.000", way too difficult, just get it close and then add 0.005" to it.


Band set to Zero tension.


Band tensioned.


Caliper reading after tensioning.  I got 0.0045" of deflections, thus I guess I need to be running in the high red with the 1 1/2" bands.


Hope this helps out.
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Online beenthere

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2004, 10:34:19 AM »
Gilman
Good method.  and cheap too. (IMO)
Seems one could just clamp the digital caliper to the band at 6 ", and then zero it out at the "untensioned" starting point, and then read the 'stretch' needed when tensioned.

Saves trying to set exactly at 6.0000" to start, and just use the direct reading of 'stretch' needed to get the desired reading.  

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Offline Gilman

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2004, 10:40:54 AM »
That's a good idea, it will also increase your accuracy.
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Offline LeeB

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2004, 12:49:44 PM »
I like it. Thanks for the idea. Now if I could just remeber which blades are which. LeeB
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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2004, 02:51:51 PM »
  Thanks for the lesson, Gilman. I will try that in reverse next time we go to the camp. 8)
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Offline beerguy

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2004, 09:31:13 AM »
Thanks, guys. This takes the mystery out of it. My torque wrench has been out of calibration for some time, and I have the tools for this measurement.

Offline highpockets

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2006, 06:18:52 AM »
Gilman,

I found your information on blade tension which was very informative.  I had calculated my needed blade tension and bought a proper die spring when I built then mill some 6 years ago.  Since I have lost my calculations.  I like the dial indicator method, thanks.

Louisiana Country boy
homemade mill, 20 h.p. Honda & 4 h.p. for hydraulics.  8 hydraulic circuits, loads, clamps, rotates, etc.

Offline jrokusek

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2006, 02:56:15 PM »
Maybe I'm thinking of a different thread...but I believe this method was only for those people who had actual bandwheels or sheaves.  I though I remembered reading that it didn't work for guys like me who used trailer tires. 

Jim

Offline isassi

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Re: Tension setting for those with 'economy' mills
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2006, 04:30:03 PM »
Mike from Mr Sawmill gave Bill instructions on tensioning using 1 revolution on the pull bolt, back off 1 to change, return to original setting. Now I know he said the blades are accurate, but how can they be sure each and every blade is exactly the same length? I think the caliper idea is an easy and effective way to do it.


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