I figured I'd start a new thread with trivia and tidbits and decided to limit this to outdoor and wildlife matters and keep it here in the Outdoor vs the General thread. I'll try to add something new I have seen or learned over the years about various animals and outdoor matters. If you have something of a similar or related subject you have learned please post it here to keep this interesting and informative.
To start with: While he looks like he has an extremely rigid backbone did you know that an alligator can actually bend his backbone at the neck so much that, if the water is deep enough, he looks like a person standing straight up and walking upright. I assume crocodiles can do the same thing but can only certify this fact for the American Alligator. It kind of makes his look like the Pogo alligator cartoon.
Have you ever watched a bobwhite quail with a clutch of chicks when alarmed? The chicks will freeze and hide under a leaf or anything handy and the hen Bobwhite will try to draw you away with a broken wing act. Once safely away from the chicks her wing miraculously cures itself and she flies away. When the threat is gone she calls her brood back together.
Did you know other birds will do the same thing? Even a "domestic" guinea chick will freeze and hide under a leaf. I have observed ostrich chicks in Southern Africa and Ibis in Mongolia, when they could not outrun pursuit, who froze and stretched out on the ground while the parents acted injured and tried to draw us away. Once we cleared the area the parents called and the young jumped up and rejoined them. Killdeer will do the same thing and I have even seen hen turkeys do the same thing. I suspect that there are many other birds who will do the same thing to protect their nests and young. This may be restricted to birds that spend their lives on the ground more than birds that spend more of their time flying.
Blue birds will do the same broken wing thing.
Speaking of game birds. Did you know that if hunting Grouse in the winter and you find a group of them roosted in a tree you can get your bag limit if you shoot them from the lowest limb up. All they do is look down and wonder why Frankie is doing the funky chicken in the snow. But if you shoot the one on the top limb first he warns all of his buddies "they got me" on the way down and they will all take flight.
My bluebirds always just attack anything that gets near their box but maybe if I'd walked out when the young one were learning to fly and fluttering in the grass they would have tried that.
That sounds like a very useful thing to know on the grouse. Kind of like Alvin York shooting the last German in the line till he worked his way to the front (if the movie was correct).
A good heart attack can be caused by ruffed grouse in the winter. They actually burrow into the snow, and will almost let you step on them before they explode up through the snow and fly away! Just a flushing grouse is enough to give a good start (I've seen dogs run away from it😊) but combined with coming up through the snow from under your feet will make your heart skip a few beats!!
BB, We have grouse here but few and I've never flushed one in the snow like that. I have had quail and rabbits do that in Fla when you'd be walking across a bare cow pasture with clumps of briers here and there. You'd swear there was not enough cover there to hide a sparrow till you step beside it and a covey of quail busts out or Mr. rubberbutt comes bounding out starting you. Many times I have seen people swinging their guns like tennis rackets at the quail because they would be so close. I once flushed 3 deer out of a patch of switch cane no bigger than a sofa on Ft Benning. Sort of makes you wonder how many animals you walked right past.
I've never seen a bluebird do a true distraction display, but they sometimes flutter one wing which I interpret as an anxiety display. They will divebomb you when getting too close to the babies, especially just before they leave the nest. Mourning Doves do the broken wing act. Ovenbirds will fly up close to you and then run away dragging their wings on the ground. Indigo Buntings will come flying up close by and flutterglide away about 3' off the ground. Hooting like a Barred Owl will cause Yellow-bellied Sapsuckers with babies nearby to pitch a fit. I had a sapsucker fly in and land in a dirt road near me and roll around on the road. I treasure all such experiences. And then there are raptors that can be outright hostile when you get near their babies.
I had a beaver in a slough off the Flint River at Lake Worth near Albany Ga do that one time. She had a den built in the bank and I was easing along pitching minnows or jigs for crappie and when I got close to the den she started coming up and splashing sounding like someone threw a big log in the water. She did that right in front of my boat for 60-70 yards till I got far enough past the den then I saw a line of bubbles pass under my boat. While she did not draw me away chasing an "injured" beaver, she did disturb the fishing enough there was no incentive to stay near the den so she still accomplished her goal.
In a way I guess deer do the same thing as many times I have had an old doe snort and prance out in the distance. No doubt she is warning the fawn but she may also be trying to get the predator to come chase her.
I assume most of you have been busted by an old doe where she would stamp her foot and maybe snort and try to get you to move and show yourself. Other animals will do that too. We watched a cow Waterbuck in Kenya at the Nukuru Game Park walking through tall grass stomping her foot like an old whitetail doe. A leopard had just passed and no doubt she smelled him. I guess when they stomp like that sometimes they play on a predators nerves and make them charge prematurely giving the prey animal more time to run away. It was neat to see animals on another continent do the same things ours do.
KEC, I have never been super close to a nest of raptors but we used to have a nest of red-tailed hawks in the top of a tall maple growing in a steep draw. We could walk up on either side and look down in the nest and see the young. I was never dive bombed or anything but the mom and dad would raise Cain in the air above. Any young in the nest would hunker down when they heard the parents. Since this was in the spring it usually coincided with Spring Gobbler season and the hawks screaming would shock any gobbler in the area to gobble so they were a good locator tool. One day I was returning from a morning hunt and a bunch of Jakes ran out past me and I busted one and he flopped and rolled and landed at the foot of the Hawk maple. Boy did the mom do some hollering then. I did not know if she did not want me that close to her young or she just hated to see that much free meat leaving when I collected my turkey.
Did you know there are jumping mullet (mostly a salt water or brackish water fish) in Lake Moultrie and Lake Marion (Santee Cooper lakes) in South Carolina? Years ago I was fishing with a guide who caught 20 or so 12-14" mullet in a cast net. We used them for cut bait for catfish. It seemed to me then we were too far inland, but apparently not. Now I'm used to it but I do remember my surprise when he brought those fish up in the net.
I know they will come a long way up fresh water rivers but I do not know how far. They used to come up the Escambia River in N. Fla where I lived and that was at least 40 miles from the Gulf of Mexico. They would sometimes jump and they were always swimming upstream and would make 3 jumps in a row and clear the water at least a foot high. We used to speculate on shooting them with bird shot because by the 3rd jump you could gauge real close there they would surface the next time.
They used to come up the Suwannee River 50 miles or more from the Gulf. I watched an old timer catch a bunch of them in the run from Hart Springs on the Gilmer County side of the river. He was using about a 25' cane pole (common to that area) with a #8 hook and about a 1" piece of earthworm for bait. He had a dozen or more when I saw him and they all looked to be 4-6 lbs or bigger. The water was swift but crystal clear and he would drop the bait right in front of them when he saw them in the spring run off. I hooked the biggest one I ever saw up above the Yellowjacket landing on the Dixie County side in the river fishing with my dad. He thought it was a mudfish (grinnel/cottonfish) and would not net him for me till it was close enough to identify and I always accused him of knocking it off but I know it really just flopped loose at the boat. A better netman still would have had him. :D
We found baby flounders in the sand in those fresh water springs too.
I've had American Kestrel dive bomb me when I got near their nest. I knew a man who I helped to band Great Horned Owls. He once got nailed by one while he was at the nest up in a tree. After that he would not go up without a helmet on. I have no experience with Goshawks but they are well known to attack people who get too close to the nest. I know the Red-tails will just fly around and scream at you.
I'v seen where a grouse broke its neck trying to dive bomb in the snow after a freezing rain on top of the snow. Also seen where a bobcat chased a grouse up out of the snow. Looking at the tracks the grouse had a frozen chunk of snow on its chest & the bobcat did eat that day
I've seen the broken wing trick a few times. I know there is a nest close by.
We have a bird feeder on the side of our deck and when I go out there and stand near it and a woodpecker has been getting at the suet, it doesn't want company. I've had them fly up from behind and pass inches from my head, definitely gets your attention.
Originally when I got here we had a trailer because that was what the property had, after we put up a house and hadn't put the bird feeder back up, at dawn one morning we heard a tapping noise in the basement near the boiler. I go down to investigate and don't see anything wrong, as I'm going upstairs, I hear it again. I open the basement door and look at the boiler vent and there is a woodpecker pecking on it. I guess he was trying to tell me something was missing. ;D
@Logger RK (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=31718) ,
Talking about broken necks did you know that is one of the normal causes of death for older Blue Footed Boobies in the Galapagos Islands? You can tell the ages as follow: Young Boobies have black feet. Mature Boobies have blue feet. Old Boobies feet begin to turn a purple color. By the time the Boobies get purple feet (15-16 years old if I remember our guide correctly) they also begin to get cataracts and before long they misjudge the depth of the water and when they dive bomb their target fish, which is how they catch fish, they impact the shallow bottom and break their necks.
Twice over the years I've run into a grouse with chicks on the trail. Both times the hen went through the flopping wing trick but in both cases the chicks ran for my feet. I can only assume it has something to do with the predator stepping toward the hen and stepping away from the chicks?
The only time I flushed a grouse with chicks the young were as big as quail and they flew up in the multi-flora rose bushes and lit till I passed. The young quail I saw as a kid used to just hide where they were and they would often grab a leaf and flip it over them. They would not be as big as the first joint on your thumb. I bought some guinea chicks and they would do the leaf hiding trick too.
We chased a couple of 3' tall Ibis in Mongolia while on vacation there and the chicks were as big as a grown chicken but had no feathers to speak of. We were in a dry riverbed and there was no cover. When they realized they could not outrun us they flopped down with their chins flat on the ground while the mom and dad acted injured about 50-60 yards away. My wife walked over and took pictures of the 2 chicks from about 5-6 ft away. We watched several minutes till finally one of the chicks just raised his head and chirped. Mom answered and he jumped up and took off running to her and then his sibling jumped up and followed.
Did you know that a baby bull elephant calf will charge even a full sized vehicle when they are a few months old. The female calves stay back with the cow but the "little boys", as our guide in Kenya described them, when 5-6 months old are much more aggressive and bold and would trumpet and make a mock charge at our vehicle then stop and shake his head as if to say "I'm bad" (and he is with a huge mom backing up his play). It is really funny to see a little bull elephant that only weighs a couple hundred lbs charge at a vehicle weighing several tons.
We watched a herd of forest elephants of assorted ages from a hide overlooking a mineral rich stream in The Central African Republic one time and a little bull under a year old was engrossed with chasing what looked like a big old Muscovy duck across a mud flat. The little bull was so engaged he did not notice his mom and siblings had wandered off into the forest without him. When he did he he searched the nearby area then trumpeted and his mom answered from out of sight and he went galloping full speed across the mud flat like a child lost in a department store. It is amazing how young animals can remind us of children at times.
How many of you have ever watched an old turkey gobbler who was all full of himself and strutting with a bright red head till suddenly he busted you or some other threat and suddenly that bright red head went all white as he showed his heels clearing the area? Did you know ostriches can exhibit similar behavior? When a huge cock ostrich is feeling his oats his head will be blood red and it can also instantly change colors when he feels threatened. There may be other birds that do the same but that is two I know of who do.
A big old male ostrich, if he can whip all the others, will take over a harem of 10-20 hens sometimes. Then he will run himself ragged keeping them together and mostly keeping the other males away. Finally he gets so run down and weak a younger or stronger male comes along and takes his harem away from him and he is cast out of the flock to ramble alone. The good news is once he has only himself to look after he can concentrate on finding food and such and suddenly he will start putting on weight and muscle and after a few months he is strong enough to challenge the upstart that took over his flock and defeat him for breeding rights again then the cycle repeats itself.
I've had a few friends like that😂😂
Quote from: SawyerTed on December 22, 2020, 08:55:27 PMDid you know there are jumping mullet (mostly a salt water or brackish water fish) in Lake Moultrie and Lake Marion (Santee Cooper lakes) in South Carolina? Years ago I was fishing with a guide who caught 20 or so 12-14” mullet in a cast net. We used them for cut bait for catfish. It seemed to me then we were too far inland, but apparently not. Now I’m used to it but I do remember my surprise when he brought those fish up in the net.
Ted,
I was re- reading this and it reminded me of the time I took a buddy of mine out frog gigging in the New River there at Jacksonville NC. We put the boat in at the landing right in front of the USO at dark and rode up the river looking for the frogs I'd heard bellowing a few days before while fishing there. I remember we were chasing a frog under some overhanging willows and my buddy was in front of the boat already nervous about snakes dropping in the boat and a big old mullet jumped right up and hit him right in the middle of the back and nearly made him have a heart attack. I remember another one jumped in the boat a little later in our trip. I don't think we got many frogs but we did come home with a mess of mullet. That area was pretty close to the ocean and still very brackish.
And as to jumping fish one time I took my BIL in a canoe in a slough just south of Charleston SC to look at gators. My wife and I had discovered the slough was full of gators when fishing and frog gigging a few weeks earlier. We went at dark and as soon as we turned the lights on there were red eyes everywhere. They were mostly small (3-4 ft long) but there was one big set of eyes off in one corner of the slough but they would go under every time we'd get close. This was the first time I had ever seen a gator "standing up" in the water as first described at the start of this thread. Anyway we circled the slough and returned to the truck parked on the side of US Highway 17. As we approached JW was talking to my wife and his girlfriend about all the gators we had seen and just as we touched the bank a little bluegill jumped out of the water and hit his hand resting on the gunnels of the canoe and he nearly had a heart attack on the spot.
Sounds like the gators had your BIL a bit unnerved. I can't say as I blame him!
The Diversion Canal between Lake Marion and Lake Moultrie (the Santee Cooper Lakes) to Charleston by the Cooper River is nearly 70 miles. We catch mullet at the hot hole in the canal.
Lake Moultrie is not considered brackish but the Cooper River below the dam is considered a tidal River. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised at the mullet because Striped Bass make the run from the ocean to Lake Moultrie. There are both locks and a fish ladder at the outfall of lake Moultrie.
While I've not had a mullet land in the boat, I've had them bounce off my kayak.
Yes there are gators in Lake Marion and Moultrie. I've not seen any in years because I've decided winter fishing is more to my liking in Santee, SC. They of course are less active and harder to spot in winter. I'm told they reach 800 pounds or more!
Brackish water and the creatures that adapt to it are fascinating. My first real introduction to brackish water was while fishing in the late spring in Lake Mattamuskeet in Hyde County NC. In the early 20th century somebody got the idea to drain Lake Mattamuskeet by digging canals to connect with the Pamlico Sound. They built gates and pumping stations and proceeded to try to pump the lake dry all in an effort to farm the rich peat laden bottom of the lake.
Well the whole enterprise failed miserably. But the lake remains connected to the sound via the canals so the water can be brackish during drier times. Often what happens is the heavier salt water remains on the bottom and fresher water will lay on top until the water is mixed by wind or storms.
I was bass fishing the lake in late May or early June. It had been dry. I made a cast in a likely spot and caught a 14" largemouth. Since I caught a fish there I cast back to the spot but let my lure fall to the bottom. When I lifted my rod, I got a strong strike. The fight that followed had me thinking I had caught a much larger bass. That is until I netted a 20" flounder! Initially I didn't understand but eventually it dawned on me the saltier water was on the bottom. It didn't take long to switch to flounder fishing!
I hired a boat for the day in Douala Cameroon one day and right after we started out we spotted a heavy plank boat about 20' long with a woman and 2 men in it paddling upriver in a pretty swift current. They had evidently been running a trotline and had a number of sting rays and 6-10 lb catfish in the bottom of the boat. We towed them about half a mile up river to a village and they gave my guide about a 6-7 lb catfish. This was pretty close to the ocean so the water was pretty brackish.
BTW - the woman was doing all the paddling and the men were kicked back relaxing. And the woman was at least 7 months pregnant. Did I ever mention I loved Africa.
Coral snakes have black noses and move with jerky motions.
Armadillos can walk underwater to cross narrow streams but can also swim.
Opossums sometimes play dead or "possum" but around here if you see them on the road, they aren't playing possum.
Black mullet taste good fried or smoked.
Frogs, mice, snakes and many other animals use gopher tortoise holes to take refuge during fires.
Baby wild turkeys can swim. When I was about 12 years old, a friend of mine and I came across an Osceola turkey hen with several chicks and we chases her up to the edge of a narrow creek, Fox Branch. She flew over with a few wing flaps but the young ones hopped in and started swimming across. We caught them but let them go back to their mother after we decided we did not want to raise wild turkeys.
Scorpions seem to really like living in the bark of longleaf pines.
We talked earlier about salt vs brackish water and some how it affects some fish. Did you know the salinity of the water may affect the color of flamingos? We had to overnight n Swakomund Namibia on the Skeleton coat while on vacation in the area due to a mechanical problem with our Nissan bakke (truck) and watched flamingos feeding along the coast of the Atlantic Ocean there. Our guide pointed out that some of the flamingos were a much darker pink than others and told us the more salt in the water where they were feeding the darker pink they turned. Reading further I discovered the color is apparently caused by the amount of beta carotene in the brine shrimp and other such food that they eat and it seems reasonable the salinity of the water would affect the food supply the flamingos are eating thereby affecting the beta carotene intake of the flamingos. I doubt our guide had ever read about the beta carotene and I bet the biologists never checked the salinity of the water against the natural flamingo foods present.
Ground hogs can climb trees and mockingbirds return to the same place to nest and will slam into your back when you mow near the nest?
Possums love pink impatience and eat down the row similar to the way we eat corn on the cob?
I did not know groundhogs could climb trees or that possums ate down the row of corn. I have heard that possums eat a lot of ticks and have homodont (All the same shape) teeth. I know mockingbirds, and some other small songbirds, will chase crows. I know crows and blue jays (which are a first cousin to the crow) will attack owls, hawks and eagles. Once at my in-laws in N. Alabama I bet there were well over 200 crows circling and calling. If you looked closely in the middle was a small dot that was a red-tailed hawk. I don't see how he could survive a concerted attack by that many crows.
Speaking of possums, one of the most memorable sermons I ever heard was, "Why indecision killed the possum." The Late Reverend A.B. Weaver from Jefferson, NC preached it at a revival when I was a teenager. The illustration was of the indecisive possum running back and forth on the road in the glare of your car headlights. A.B. was the funniest man I ever have known, somehow his humor was dead serious at times.
I learned that groundhogs climb trees like a cat shortly after we moved to Emily's family farm back in 1988. There was a huge population of the old whistle pigs. My task was to decrease the groundhog population in my free time. One wisened old bull groundhog would appear and disappear before I could get a shot. One day I switched my hunting location to the opposite side of a group of trees. The old groundhog came out, looked in the direction that I had been sitting then promptly climbed a tree. Just like a squirrel he jumped from one tree to another. It was on his climb down the second tree that he met his demise.
I have a little dog now that keeps the possum and groundhog population in check along with the coyotes.
Did you know lions can climb trees? We saw a lioness not far from our lodge on Nukuru Game Park resting on top of the branches of an acacia tree about 20' above ground right at sunset. I can see how they could pull themselves up the trunk of the tree but to this day I don't know how she climbed up on top of all the small branches.
Did you know that bullfrogs are cannibals? If fact I think a bullfrog will eat anything he can get down his throat and his mouth opens almost 180 degrees. When I used to gig a lot of them in N. Fla in my late teens and early 20's the main thing I found in their stomachs were crawfish but I also found small turtles, snakes, and bluegills. I had one in a 55 gallon aquarium in NC and the kids gave me a baby snapping turtle I was real proud of till the bullfrog ate it. The frog weighed about a pound. (I have gigged them that weighed over 2.5 lbs.) I caught another that weighed about 1/3 of a pound and put him in the aquarium but he disappeared shortly thereafter and we thought he had escaped and we'd find him in the house later - maybe by the smell under a worse case scenario which did not make my wife some happy! We went to clean out the aquarium and I caught the big frog to put in temporary quarters and looked and saw the tips if the smaller frogs toes sticking out his mouth.
My next door neighbor here in WV had a small pond and some ducks and he came by one day just in time to rescue a duckling when I saw a big bullfrog jump and land right on top of Daffy Jr. The frog had his lips completely around the duckling and if Billy had not been there when he was it would have been a gone duckling.
A bullfrog will eat anything he can catch. I have hooked but never landed them on a fly rod with a cork bug when fishing for bluegills. It is a fierce battle and lots of fun but they always broke my line. I have caught them with plastic worms when bass fishing. I'd see one on the bank or shallow water and toss the worm past him and drag it by him and twitch it and there would be an explosion in the water's edge and a quick battle to bring the frog in.
(I once hooked a big old hoot owl on the Suwannee River with plastic worm in a live oak over the river the same way but he broke free too after I had pulled him down into the river. He floated a few seconds looking awful confused then started flapping and got air under his wings and broke my line.)
I gigged a bunch of bullfrogs in Beaufort SC when my son was about three and cleaned them telling him I was "taking their clothes off". After a while my son handed me a skinned frog and told me "Okay Daddy. Put his clothes back on."
I once caught a bat on a plastic worm in the air! Unfortunately it got a broken wing and flopped around on the pond until some large fish took it with a huge splash.
Frog gigging is not something I've done. It sounds like it provides lots of opportunity for adventure!
At one time there were enough oysters in the sounds of North Carolina they could filter the water in all the sounds every three days!
Flounder gigging is something I've done and occasionally a Stargazer fish will be mistaken for a flattie. It's a weird thing full of terrible teeth.
Ted,
I never gigged flounders but the back ends of my Samburu and Masaai spears have a barbless spear just like the flounder gigs people used to use in the Gulf of Mexico around Pensacola. I guess I could use them. I have heard of several people who gigged their own feet when shuffling around in a little bit of murky water.
While very modest I must confess, I was dang good as a frog gigger in my teens! I'd take the 6V tractor battery out of our old Farmall Cub, had a pair of alligator clamps hooked to about 10-12 ft of lamp cord connected to a Ray-O-Vac 6v head light so I could travel anywhere in my 12' aluminum jonboat. I had to change the bulbs from normal PR13 to PR18 I think it was because the extra amps would blow them often. I kept plenty of spares with me too. I could spot an amber eye of a big bullfrog behind a log from the reflection in the water for several hundred yards. The first thing you normally see is that big white belly. My gig pole was bamboo and 2' longer than my boat so I could run right up to the frog and spear him. I used a square gig with 5 points (One on each corner and one in the middle) that was wicked. When hunting in ponds and sloughs you'd have to use a canoe or scull the boat really quietly because at the first sign of a paddle scraping on the side of the boat or a little wake reaching him the frog would go under if in the water or jump in the water if on the bank. I mostly hunted the Escambia River where boat traffic was common and I could idle my outboard right up to the frog as he was used to the sound. Also the waves from the boats tended to make the frog sit further back on the bank instead of right in the waters edge. It was critical to keep the light on him once you spotted him to hold him motionless. I'd point the gig at him and drive the boat right into him giving the gig a short jab when I was about 6" from him. Newcomers tend to want to stab at the frog from 4' away and I don't know how many times I'd see them spear the sand right under the frog. Once I speared one I would usually slide my hand down the gig and grab him unless I was confident I had speared him solidly through the backbone as a frog would push off and escape a very serious wound. Once you had the frog on the end of the gig it was time to carefully search the overhead willows (a frog's favorite hangout) and surrounding area for snakes. You could not hold the frog at bay with your light and search the area at the same time so priority had to go to holding the frog at bay. Once the light was out of his eyes he'd jump so you had to be moderately insane to go in after them. I have had snakes jump on a struggling, bellowing frog I had just speared and that is a very annoying and will also elevate your heartrate real quick and in a hurry. Never gig a snake except in self defense and a last resort as they are very hard to get off the gig and it thoroughly piths them off.
If you happen to miss a frog, not that that has ever happened to me of course, mark the spot, run up the river and gig another frog then turn around and come back as after a couple of minutes he will be right back up.
I have had frogs jump in the river then immediately jump back out on the bank. I always wondered what he saw down there to make him do that. The hardest frog to get and the one that will most often escape is the one that takes refuge over land and you see him bounding off 10-12 feet at a jump into the logjam and cypress knees behind him.
The absolute best time to gig frogs was dark nights in the summer when the water was very low and the sloughs had drained significantly. The dark night meant your light was more effective at holding the frog in place. The low water meant the frogs would often migrate to the river and at the mouth of the slough you might find several in close proximity.
We did not have many gators in N. Fla when I was a kid so it was rare to see but I remember coming up on one near dry slough and seeing a pair of bright red eyes that looked to be 3" in diameter and a foot apart. I was in a 12' fiberglass boat and pointed it right at the gator and ran straight to him till he submerged and headed into deeper water scrubbing the bottom of my boat in the process and it seemed his head and tail stuck out on both ends. That certainly was not the smartest thing I ever did not both the gator and I survived the encounter.
BTW Ted, did you try bats for bait after that encounter? Sounds to me like you may have hit on a new lunker bait.
Did you know a mature male bullfrog will have a bright yellow chin? A mature female will often have a black and white spotted belly. Younger frogs may not have either of these traits. The male makes the distinctive and very loud ground shaking "Wronk" sound to attract the female during the summer mating season and the female goes to the male much like a turkey gobbler calling to the hen. The difference being a hen turkey will sometime answer back.
More grouse stuff.
I was once "attacked" by a momma grouse with chicks while atv riding on a gravel rd.
She puffed her neck feathers (ruff) and ran right at me stopping about 3 feet away.
Also while xc skiing a good number of years ago I had one explode out of the snow between my legs while I was coasting down a hill.
Im glad it wasnt a very steep hill.
I have gigged frogs here in NY when I was a kid, but a fellow who worked for me took me out one night in Maryland.
I swear the first one I saw was the size of a house cat. Nothing that big here in NY
A woman I used to work with was into horses and had a couple acres with a small pond in one corner. Her husband was into hunting and fishing. I guess he brought back some catfish and one was still pretty lively so they put it in the pond. So she would go out nearly every day with some bread or crackers and feed the catfish - who got pretty big. One spring, a Mallard pair set up a nest and hatched some eggs. One day she was out there and the ducklings went for their first paddle. She watched in horror as several disappeared when a gaping mouth swallowed them up. They had catfish for dinner soon afterwards! :D
That tale reminded me of one of Mr. Tom Cadenhead's tales. Hopefully the link below will take you right too it but if not it was titled A Catfish Story. (looks like the link did not work but Mr. Tom seems to have posted the first Thread in the sawmills and Milling and if you open it you can got to his memorial website and look under his Allegories for the catfish story. I will always regret I never got to meet Mr. Tom but he had already passed long before I got a mill or found this forum.)
Tomssaw.com Error (http://www.tomssaw.com/cgi-bin/newspro/viewnews.cgi?newsid1069463366,9612),
Pete,
I used to tell my buddies if the frog was not big enough to make Frog Head Cheese (Souse) I would just pass on him and let him grow some more.
I did save the front legs and backs as well as the back legs. If he was not big enough to use the whole frog I did let him go.
I don't know how many of you ever skinned or cut up a frog. They are pretty easy to process. First cut through the skin on the back right below his head. Grab the skin with a pair of fishermans's pincers or pliers like you would use to skin a catfish. Hold the frogs head and pull and the skin pulls off very readily. Cut off the "hands", cut off the feet at the "ankles" then put 2 fingers in the chest and pull the breast plate with both front legs attached. Next cut the back legs off at the hip joints. Next cut the side meat and guts off the backbone. When finished you have the front leg "assembly", the back and the two separate back legs.
Be sure to get rid of the hides. head and guts quickly as since it is usually warm weather they will get fly blown and raise a patch of maggots while you watch if not. Bury or toss them back in the lake for the turtles and fish to eat. Never try to grind them in the food disposal - don't ask me how I know this but I assure you it will not make your wife happy some at all not any!
Back in the day we had friends that we would baby sit their house when they were gone for a period of time. An idea of the nature of the house, it had a plexiglass roof, built in the round, with a two story atrium, built over a pond. Pond was stocked with catfish. There was a bell mounted on a post in the yard beside the pond. They would ring the bell, catfish would show up and be fed. Being fond of catfish, a cane pole with a dried shrimp on the hook tossed in with the feed, and we had supper. Not fair, probably, for the fish, but paid for the baby sitting. 8)
TR,
Years ago I saw an article where some fish farm was raising Sea Bream which was a very desirable and pricy fish. They would ring a bell every time they fed the fish. They did this for many months till the fish reached a certain size then they put the fish in a cage in the ocean and did the same thing for a few more days or weeks then they opened the cages and released the fish but every day at a certain time they rang the bell and fed the fish a token amount but basically the fish were foraging on their own and putting on weight. Finally at the desired time they rang the bell and when the fish entered the enclosure they closed the gates and harvested the fish for the market. They recovered an amazing percentage (Something like 95% IIRC) of the fish.
When I was a small boy I was listening to my grandfather telling about when he was a kid and they raised hogs in and around the Steinhatchee River in central Fla and he said he would get on his horse, load a 100 lb bag of shelled corn and go off to feed the hogs which were free ranging for miles around on their hog claim. He said he would ride down a different trail each day dropping a small trail of corn and he said he'd look back and the road would be full of hogs - dozens if not hundreds at times. I asked him how he ever figured to feed that many hogs with that relatively small amount of corn and he said there was no way that many hogs would survive on the feed he gave them. He said feeding them like that was just to gentle them down a little and make them easier to trap in the Fall when they would capture and butcher or sell the excess. The hogs foraged for their own food but the corn was just a treat to make them easier to catch later. I guess that was the same idea with the fish farm's Sea Bream.
Hogs are SMART, and even fish are smarter than a lot of people give them credit for. If you have ever kept Oscar cichlids in an aquarium, they get to recognise you, and their food jar. They act more like a puppy than a fish.
We called in at a local wildlife reserve earlier in the year. They specialise in the rarer native birds with a predator free fenced forest and captive breeding programs. But one if the "side shows" is the "tuna" (native eels). These are "wild" and just happen to live in the stream that flows though the reserve.
We walked past the stream, and not much was happening.. Came back 1/2 an hour later, and the eels knew it was close to feeding time.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/IMG_9768.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1609227117)
Once some leftovers from the kiwi / falcons / owls lunch showed up, the water was boiling.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/IMG_9772~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1609227151)
The volunteer feeders had a safety briefing, DO NOT FALL OVER. No children or old folks allowed in the water.
We have the same fish living in the little stream in the back garden, but that's the most I've ever seen in one place.
The "Did you know" part?
The adult eels swim out to sea and breed somewhere near Tahiti (1,000+ miles away). The elvers then drift back on the currents and swim up the rivers to live and grow until they are big enough to repeat the cycle.
Did you know that, like the electric eels in South America, there is an electric ray that lives in the Red Sea? There may be others around the world. The Red Sea electric ray has a pair of electrodes on his nose area that he uses for defense and to stun his prey. They generate a very impressive jolt to the uninitiated.
I first found out about them on a Christmas Eve night dive while working in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. I went diving in the Red Sea with a young man who was visiting his mom and dad for the holiday. His dad was a friend/co-worker of mine. During the dive on our return heading back to the entry point my light died so I was following along behind and we were passing over a sandy bottomed area at about 25' deep. Suddenly my partner stopped and shined his light in my face and I stopped to see what he wanted. Suddenly I saw a flat bodied fish about 12-14 inches long hovering right in front of me. I guess it had been hiding in the sand and we were diving close enough to the bottom such that we disturbed it and it it was hovering about 3' above the bottom when we spotted him. It did not have stinger and I assumed it was a baby ray shark. I put my right hand directly in front of him to stop him from swimming away and my left hand behind to stop him from backing up. This lasted several seconds with the fish easing forward and backward a few inches at at a time till I put my right hand, the one with a hole in the index finger of my rubber dive glove, too close to his nose and electricuted-smiley he lit me up like a Christmas tree! My mind entered another universe and I lost all feeling in my joints for several seconds and felt like that cartoon where the guy has grabbed a live wire and his hair is all frizzed out. It was hard to see because of the sand we had stirred up but mostly from the bubbles from my partner laughing at me under water. If Santa was anywhere overhead I bet he saw the glow in the water like that Geico commercial "Houston are you seeing this?". Somewhere in my confusion the electric ray exited the area and I confess I did not see or look for him any more!
Oh well, the results passed quicker than when I tried to lip-lock a large porcupine puffer fish. I had a blue thumb for weeks and lost the nail in that encounter. Note to self: Never attempt to lip-lock any fish that eats coral for a living.
scuba-smiley
Did you know know the Florida gopher tortoise digs a burrow about 20-25 deep where he lives. Their northern range is largely determined by temperature as being true southerners they don't do well in the cold. They also need soft sandy soil without rocks for easy digging but with enough clay to hold the soil together and prevent collapsing of the roof.
These burrows are often shared by rattlesnakes, armadillos and rabbits. The gopher is a vegetarian and a harmless critter that makes a great pet for kids. Well, where it is legal to keep one they do as they are highly protected in Florida now and it is illegal to possess one there. They live pretty much everywhere in the Fla but are also found in south Ga and southern Ala. They may even be in Mississippi but I am not sure they ever crossed the Mississippi River into Louisiana. In Florida they now are a nemesis to construction projects because if one is found on the building site all construction is halted until after the breeding season and the tortoise can be/has been relocated.
Gophers are easy to catch in a pit trap made from a 5 gallon bucket or larger container. Just dig a hole directly in front of the burrow deep enough the can is level with the top of the ground, put a piece of brown paper or thin cardboard over the top of the can and the next time the gopher tries to enter or exit he falls in and is caught.
Be careful when working around a gopher hole! You can readily tell an active burrow by the fresh sandy dirt at the front and you can see the slide marks. Also leaves and spiderwebs in front of the burrow indicates inactivity. I went to pit a large gopher behind my house on USMC base Albany Ga while picking blackberries with my 6 y/o son and used a rusted out 30 gallon garbage can I found in a nearby garbage dump. I dug the pit, covered it with paper and explained to my son what we were doing. The next day while at work I called my wife to see if she had checked to see if we caught the gopher and assured her our son could show her the place. When I called and asked she said "No, there is a rattlesnake there and I'm not going back!" She went out with our son and 4 y/o daughter. Sean rushed up to the pit and suddenly there was a loud buzzing of an angry rattlesnake in the area. She yelled at Sean to stop and scared him so much he and Sharon were both crying but they safely cleared the area. Evidently the snake had fallen in my pit. When I came home I went back with a hoe to kill and recover the snake but it had gotten out but the gopher was in the pit so I recovered him, filled in the pit and stayed away from the area.
In Opp Ala just across the Fla panhandle line they used to have an annual rattlesnake rodeo to see who could catch the most and biggest rattlesnakes. The hunters would find a gopher hole and run a garden hose down the hole and listen to it like a stethoscope. If the gopher was home they could hear him blowing. If a snake they could hear his rattles and scales clicking and they would pour a small amount of gasoline in the hose and blow the fumes into the hole and the snake would quickly come out. Some people hooked the exhaust of their vehicle to the hose and the CO2 would chase the snake out. Others used to cut a plug out of an orange, squeeze the juice out, pour in a little gas and roll it down the hole. In most cases gassing gopher holes is now illegal as too many innocent gophers were killed during the process.
Dad said the gophers in central Fla where he grew up were nearly wiped out during the depression as they are good to eat and slow to raise.
Did you know that there are still many parts of Africa where the people still believe in Magic and witchcraft?
On my last trip to Cameroon in February 2008 we were on a long stretch of road between villages and our guide, a college educated travel guide, told us that road was bad for truck jackings as it was a major ground transportation route between much of the country. I asked her why the Gendarmes did not set up a sting operation with a box truck or such full of armed gendarmes then when the bandits stopped the truck jump out and capture or kill the bandits. The guide said "Oh no, that won't work because they take local medicines they eat or rub on their skin and it makes them invisible." While she was college educated she still believed people could make themselves invisible.
Over next to the Nigerian border while trekking in and camping with the Koume (Koo Mah) people who were first discovered/contacted by outsiders around 1986 I spotted a flat rock propped up by another smaller rock and asked my local guide if that was a deadfall trap for small animals or birds. My guide told us "No, it is a spirit trap. If anyone is coming to this village ahead with intentions to do harm to anyone in the village and they pass here the stone will fall and capture their spirit and they will die. The first time that happens they can buy their way out by buying a cow or steer and having a feast for the village but if they try a second time they will just die and there is no way out." My wife asked "What if they just walk around it?" The guide explained it was like a long line and even someone flying over in an airplane with harmful intent would lose their spirit and die.
In Ethiopia while visiting along the Maga Valley region I saw some baskets hung in the trees as bee hives which was common in many areas I had visited in Africa. Baskets made of palm fronds or wood are hung in likely spots and when the bees swarm they find them and settle into them and the villagers collect the honey and brood to eat at a certain time of the year. I asked my guide what was to stop someone from stealing another persons beehives and he said "Oh no. They go to the local witch doctor and he puts a curse on the hives if anyone steals them a Mamba will crawl into his hut at night and kill him and his family and anyone else who ate the honey." (I like that idea - I wonder if I can hire a WD to hex my tools?)
Our South African guide on a trip there told us many Africans believe evil spirits are little men who hide in the corners and jump up on the beds at night to cause harm to the occupants. That is why they make their huts round (No Corners) and their beds are made high off the ground. (I always wondered if those Mambas and spiders and such might not be part of the reason for the tall beds.)
Since it is New Year's Day and I want all my FF family and friends to have the best possible start on 2021, did you know that traditionally if you ate Black-eyed peas and hog jowls on New Year's Day you were supposed to have a better year ahead. Somewhere along the line the tradition added some greenery to the meal which was supposed to indicate more wealth in the year ahead. In the South the greenery was typically collards or possibly turnip or mustard greens. In the North I understand the greenery was typically cabbage. (I suspect these were the green items still in season in those respective regions at this time of year.)
My dad told me his version of the BE peas and Hog jowls came from growing up in the Depression era. Back then people were dirt poor and most had no refrigeration. BE Peas were one of the few foods people could grow, whip out the dry peas, and save them without refrigeration. The hog jowl used to season the peas was about the cheapest cut of meat on the pig. He said with all that in mind if you were down to eating BE peas and hog jowls on New Years Day you had to have a better year ahead because it could not get much worse as you were already just one step away from starving. :D
Happy New year and enjoy those BE Peas and hog jowls. digin1
Well we didn't have black eyed peas in the pantry but did have white beans. So today we had white beans and ham hock, turnip greens, macaroni and cheese and Emily's awesome cornbread (it might be one of the reasons I married her). We had a whole ham on Sunday for lunch o the ham hock was leftover. The rest Emily made from scratch.
The traditional meal, I believe, was made up just as you say to help bunt the feelings of poverty and because those foods were more available in the dead of winter.
Ted,
We had BE peas with pork loin cut up in it for seasoning and a couple strips of bacon. We had rice, cole slaw and cornbread with it. When we finished my wife asked "Why don't we eat that more often?" We have enough leftovers I will be eating a couple more meals off it I suspect. It was simply good.
I don't know what kind of luck you generate from eating white beans but I wish you luck.
We had dinner alone Christmas and Becky cooked a ham and I think there is one chunk left about the size of a tangerine or small orange. I'm hoping Becky dices it up and makes another ham and cheese omelet with a batch of yellow grits out of it.
Having some black eyed peas, green beans, rice, and rainbow trout right now. We grow the peas - actually for the cows in the summer - known as cow peas of all things - then just keep some back for us, and the trout was compliments of @Poquo (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=45962) - it was very good!!
Did you know that when a female hippo gives birth to a bull calf she leaves the pod to raise him alone for the first 8-12 months because the bull hippos in the pod will often kill a bull calf. If she gives birth to a female she will typically return to the pod with the baby because it is not at risk like a male would be.
We were touring southern Africa and stopped for a couple of nights in the Okavango Delta in Botswana and I was fishing for baby tiger fish with ultra lite tackle near a small papyrus island at sunset. It was a magical time with no wind and glassy calm water and the sun setting on one side of the boat and a full moon rising on the opposite. My wife was like a swivel rotating from one direction to the other trying to get pictures of both. I was pitching a small jig spinner like a Beetle Spin and 6-8 inch tiger fish were attacking it nearly every cast (although I was not landing many) when suddenly a cow hippo with a newborn calf, we assume was a baby bull, drifted down the river to our fishing spot. My guide quickly pulled anchor and cleared the area as he said a cow hippo with a calf was very likely to attack us. We tried a couple more fishing spots but I never got another strike.
I remember we got up the next morning and found fresh hippo tracks about 10' in front of our tent. They were not there that night when we went to bed the night before.
Did you know - you can levitate when you hear a rattle but not see the snake? Olympic jumps.
@Texas Ranger (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=7) ,
I can believe that! That reminds me of the old picture of the new Olympic record for the standing broad jump showing a young lady on a nude beach in the south of France bending over on the beach to adjust her towel or blanket and a cold nosed hound dog walked up and sniffed where cold nosed hound dogs are subject to sniff but I guess this is not the appropriate place for that photo.
I have been watching the History Channel on Thursday nights with the Swamp People crew from Louisiana down in the Everglades catching pythons. Chase or Troy Landry will be walking through the swamp and suddenly yell "Snake, Snake" and run grab the snake by the tail while his partners go grab the head. I am still watching to see them make a grab and pull up a tail with rattles on it. That would be my luck. Maybe we will see it on the did something dumb thread one of these days.
I have had baby lambs while chasing them to the barn yard up and play dead. They stay that way for a minute then jump up and take off.
I was never around sheep. We raised goats for a long time and there is nothing cuter than a bunch of kid goats jumping and playing. I guess the lambs playing dead is like a fawn laying motionless and maybe that is a retained instinct but I did not know that. Thanks for posting this tidbit.
Did you know the worlds fastest snake is generally believed to be the Black Mamba in Africa? He is also one of the deadliest with enough venom to kill a grown elephant. They are often reported to be very ill tempered making multiple bites. Reports have been received of a black mamba crawling into a hut after mice or rats and a sleeping inhabitant would roll over on him and the snake would bite everyone in the hut wiping out whole families. Maybe this is where the stolen honey hex came from.
On 28 December 2010 while touring in Ethiopia and on our way to the Omo Valley, our local guide Clahoon, suddenly yelled that he spotted a snake crossing the wide clay road we were on. We stopped and he said "It was by that bush" so I ran to the bush and got a long stick and probed around but no snake. We looked around but did not see anything so I walked a little further into the stand of scrubby acacia and mopani trees beside the road. The trees were maybe 20' tall but there was very little leaf matter or understory so the ground was pretty clear. I spotted the snake crawling quickly along the stony ground rapidly flicking his tongue out tasting the air. I grabbed a bushy limb and was able to stop and turn him. He was slender, olive colored and about 5' long. Clahoon said it was some kind of mamba and asked if we wanted to kill it. I told him there were no villages around so we'd leave it alone. Our daughter Sharon snapped 2-3 quick pictures and ran back to the car followed by Clahoon. Our driver had never gotten out. Becky and I stayed a couple more minutes with her taking pictures and me, armed with a 1.5 liter bottle of water (I guess I still had it in my hand when I exited the car because I can't recall thinking it would be useful for snake wrangling) and my bushy limb, trying to keep the snake in the area for her to photograph. She got several pictures then we decided we'd better leave or the rest of the gang were going to leave without us.
When we got to a village or lodge with internet we looked up the snake and it was, indeed, a black mamba. Apparently this one must have been a teenager as it was only about 5' long and a mature snake is typically about 8.5' long and can be as long as 14'. Fortunately for us, this one showed no signs of aggression and I never got to, nor did I want to, see the famous black mouth although we did see the coffin shaped head.
A little over a week later on 6 January 2011 while staying at a lodge on Lake Tana, the headwaters of the Blue Nile in northern Ethiopia, a local kid came and got us to photograph a python in the papyrus along the lake. We finally spotted the snake in the reeds but only part of his body slowly crawling forward till I saw the stubby tail which was nearly 2" in diameter at the tip. I grabbed the tail planning to pull the snake out for Becky to get a picture but after a brief tug of war and with no help from the crowd who scattered quickly and far, the snake pulled free. I don't and will never know if he was 10' long on as long as the telephone poles like the locals insisted. I assume it was an African Rock python as I don' t know of any other kind in that area. The tail was nearly black instead of the normal reddish brown like you normally see but different color phases are common in our American snakes and I assume that is true other places in the world.
One thing I remember was in the crowd along the sidewalk surrounding the lake who had been watching the snake there was a young man in a wheelchair. While it may not be politically correct to say so, I really did think it was funny watching him leading the pack of the crowd running away when I grabbed the snake's tail. Have you ever seen a wheelchair burning rubber? I swear it looked like that one did.
Did you know when the African warthog runs it carries its tail high in the air like a flag or banner? Apparently this allows the young to see their mother in the tall grass of the Savannahs and such and stay together instead of getting scattered. It is a comical sight to watch but has practical purpose.
Did you also know the meat of a warthog is a dark, red flesh rather than white like our American and European pigs.
Did you know: Events that end with you saying "what?".
Sitting in the deer stand and a cougar runs across the feed patch, fast enough to make you think twice.
Sitting on a friends patio with an adult beverage in hand, watching the Martin house when a hawk flys in, lands on the side of the house, reaches in one of the nest holes, and extracts dinner.
Sitting in the deer stand and a racoon joins you, the question arises as to who will vacate the stand.
Walking a pipeline road in deer season, friends wife walking beside me, she turns and grabs my arm with a look on her face. Points down to the skunk walking between us.
Sitting around the fire, mid day deer season, when the rattle snake crawls out from under the cabin and the camp lights up with gun fire.
One I have told before: driving to another county with my wife when a cougar jumps the road in front of us, wife's question was, "what was that?" I replied "the cougar you say I never see".
Moments that stick in your mind.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on January 03, 2021, 09:24:54 AM
A little over a week later on 6 January 2011 while staying at a lodge on Lake Tana, the headwaters of the Blue Nile in northern Ethiopia, a local kid came and got us to photograph a python in the papyrus along the lake. We finally spotted the snake in the reeds but only part of his body slowly crawling forward till I saw the stubby tail which was nearly 2" in diameter at the tip. I grabbed the tail planning to pull the snake out for Becky to get a picture but after a brief tug of war and with no help from the crowd who scattered quickly and far, the snake pulled free. I don't and will never know if he was 10' long on as long as the telephone poles like the locals insisted. I assume it was an African Rock python as I don' t know of any other kind in that area. The tail was nearly black instead of the normal reddish brown like you normally see but different color phases are common in our American snakes and I assume that is true other places in the world.
I've been watching "Serpent Invasion" on Discovery Channel lately. But I believe their weight (and possibly length) is inflated for TV. If you watch those guys, they're not picking those things up and putting them in a sack like they weigh 100+ lbs. :D :D :D
Good catch. I know those snakes can be very heavy. I have been wondering as I watched the History Channel specials and three of them walk out of the Everglades carrying, based on what the individual weights were listed during the show, must have been over half a ton of snakes. Those Cajuns are pretty stout if they can each carry 400 lbs of snakes in a pillowcase over their shoulder.
We were going to relocate a big female green Anaconda in Ecuador in December 2008 because it was too close to a village and was a threat to the animals, pets and children of the village. We stopped and took pictures of the snake on our trip downriver. It looked to be at least 20' long and over 6" in diameter. The year before the residents of the village had killed a large anaconda in the same area and our guide wanted to protect the snake as much as the people. Our guide said he would grab it from behind and put a sock over its head to help calm it but that he was going to need our help carrying it to the boat and unloading it at the new site because he was sure it weighed over 200 lbs. I was game to help catch and carry the snake and my wife was excited to take pictures of the whole operation but when we returned to the site on our trip back upriver a week later the snake was gone.
I have a python skin I bought during my travels that is about 14' long and it is 18" wide.
Howard , you underestimate the strength of those cajuns. I've watched with my own eyes ( tv ) as the announcer narrates , them one handed flipping " a 500lb dinosaur " ( gator ) into a 14' jon boat. :D
Ellmoe,
You underestimate the strength of a relocated Hillbilly I bet. I'd bet if that 500 lb gator were in my boat I would have readily thrown him a good 50' getting him out! :D
Did you know the primary food of the Harpy eagle in South America is arboreal/tree-dwelling mammals such as monkeys and sloths? They cruise the sky over the jungle and when they spot their target they swoop down and pluck him from the tree-tops to take back to the nest of a convenient perch to eat.
In December 2008 we vacationed at the CuyaBeno wildlife reserve/national park (Famous for several of the Naked and Afraid contests now) at the corner of Ecuador and Peru and were on a private boat tour down the a tributary of the Amazon River when we stopped to camp in an Indian village. A young local Indian man offered to show us a young harpy eagle on the nest to we trekked 2 hours into the bush to the nest and watched and photographed the rare bird the rest of the afternoon. When we started to leave we checked the ground underneath the nest tree and found and brought back a monkey skull about the size of an egg and a sloth toe (off a three-toed sloth) about the size and shape of a large turkey spur.
I think the Harpy eagle is about the size of our golden eagle and is white with a distinctive fuzzy ring of feathers around his neck. The beak and toes were black on our immature bird (He could fly but never left the nest tree) but may change colors as he gets older as is the case with out American Bald Eagle.
WV Sawmiller, all I can saw is that, with all your exploits and adventures I'd welcome you to sit on my front porch for a visit to hear more !
@KEC (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=40283) ,
I'd love to come talk. Talking is one of my favorite hobbies which was one of the reasons I got a sawmill. :D I think we may have to wait till summer as if I read your profile right you are up in New York and I'd be afraid your winters are worse than ours. I guess if I come I'll have to bring my own grits won't I? :D :D Better yet, you come here and we can feed you catfish and grits and show you pictures to match the tall tales and scars. We'll keep the light on for you. ;D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on January 05, 2021, 07:28:27 AM
You underestimate the strength of a relocated Hillbilly
:D :D :D
Did you know the world's smallest monkey is the Pygmy Marmoset in South America. They are about the size of an eastern flying squirrel - about 4.5"- 6" long and weighing about 3.5 ounces. It is known as a Gummivore meaning it lives on the sap of specific trees. It gnaws the bark off small spots in several locations on its target tree and spends its day running back and forth lapping up the syrupy sap that oozes out and re-opening the spots by gnawing off the healed spots on the bark to keep the sap flowing. I gather the tree must be similar to our sugar maple. I read they live in small troops of 2-9 individuals.
In December 2008 one one of our last days in the jungle of the Cuya Beno reserve in Ecuador we started out for our morning outing. As soon as we pulled out from the dock at our lodge our guide, Neiser Toro, directed Clever, our Indian boat driver, to pull across the small river which was not much wider than the length of our 50' fiberglass canoe with a 40 hp Yamaha outboard, to the opposite bank. We walked a very short distance into the bush and Toro pointed to a particular tree and we walked around it for about an hour looking from various vantage points between the foliage to see parts of the tree and photograph the little marmosets. Finally we spotted what Toro had told us to be looking for. A tiny monkey darted to a spot on a large limb and looked like a tiny dog lapping up water in his dish then he laid his head on the side and gnawed rapidly for a minute or two then darted to another spot on the same tree and repeated the gestures. The tiny monkeys seemed to be in constant motion and were very hard to see clearly because of the thick leaves, their small size, distance from us, and their speed. Without Toro knowing what to look for and pointing them out to us we would never have seen them.
Not so much exotic, but around here, gray squirrels will sometimes gnaw Sugar Maples to get the sap. They seem to select one particular tree when there are others nearby. I suspect that female squirrels are nutritionally stressed in spring. They get pregnant in mid-winter and carry babies through the late winter period when food is scarce and have to make milk to nurse. This is before new seeds and nuts are available. They really can chew heck out of a tree. One thing that puzzles me is that Yellow-bellied Sapsuckers don't seem to bother Sugar Maple.
Did you know that the African Oyrx or Gemsbok (Hems Bok) will crawl under an obstacle if possible rather than jumping over it. We watched an oryx walk up to a tight barbed wire fence keeping cattle away from a road through a pasture along the western/Skeleton Coast in Namibia then stick his head under the bottom wire and basically he just crawled under letting barb wire slide down his 4' long scimitar shaped horns until it slapped him on the rump just as he cleared the fence. A whitetail deer will exhibit similar behavior by walking along a typical 47" high pasture fence hundreds of yards or more to crawl under a knee high low spot in the fence rather than simply jumping over it which he could very easily do. They will do the same and crawl under a fallen tree in their trail rather than jumping if possible. Also when a deer, elk, antelope or such do jump a fence, instead of getting a running start, which would seem to be easier, they will walk up to a fence, stop, squat down, commence a standing broad jump over the fence while lifting his front legs against his chest and tucking his back legs in as they clear the top of the fence. It is a very graceful maneuver when typically exhibited.
I've seen adult woodchucks squeeze under a concrete slab where you would not think they could fit. I once watched a muskrat waddle over to a storm drain and go down through the iron grate cover. I measured the slot that it went down through and it was barely 1 1/2" wide. I once got a bat out of someones' house that got between two windows. I got it out through a slot that was barely wide enough to get a not-so-large diameter ball point pen through.
I knew a mouse could squeeze through a spot about 3/8" if not smaller. I was never around muskrats enough to know what they could get into and never had the occasion to see what a woodchuck could get in. Good on you for getting the bat out of the window! I've seen sleeping bats in our local train depot and they did not look like they were 2" long. They looked more like a leaf than an animal.
Did you know natural rubber comes from the sap of a rubber tree? When the tree is about 6" in diameter a "catface" is cut along one side of the tree at an angle through the bark which is thin and smooth and similar to the bark on our American Beech tree. As I remember a cut about 24"- 30" long was made and at the bottom a small pail (about a pint size) with a wire bail was hung on a peg. White milky sap "bleeds" from the tree and follows the path of the cut and drips into the pail as a dirty white substance. It has a very foul odor and looks very similar to old paint that has been left exposed to the air to harden. Periodically the pails are collected and the hardened rubber sap is dumped on strategically placed work tables built of bamboo or raffia palm fronds on access roads or trails through the rubber plantation. Workers then drive a tractor or ATV pulling a cart through the plantation and collect the chunks of rubber to take to a factory for processing.
While the collection may be similar to tapping maple trees for syrup it is more akin to "chipping turpentine" on pine trees in the southern USA. Every few days a plantation worker refreshes the wound on the tree using a special tool that looks similar to a beekeepers hive tool with one sharpened edge. The worker cuts a strip about 1/4" wide of fresh bark off the tree at the top of the exposed surface/cut on the tree. This continues until the tree is about 12" in diameter when production decreases and the tree is cut down and, at least in the area of West Africa I was visiting, cut up into firewood. There is evidently no obnoxious smell when the wood burns. Rubber plantations are obvious from a distance because the trees have a distinctive lean indicating the prevailing wind direction. The trees I saw were leaning about 30 degrees or so.
The rubber tree was apparently native to South America but it was eventually smuggled out and planted in Africa and possibly the tropical areas of Asia.
Did you ever buy river gravel for use in making concrete or to put in a fish aquarium or on a walkway? Did you ever see how it is collected and processed? Where I grew up in N. Fla sand and gravel was and remains a big local operation. I grew up fishing, frog gigging and swimming in large borrow pits where the gravel had been pumped out. I gather the operation starts with the owner excavating a pit with a loader or bulldozer until they reach the water table, which is pretty high. Once they get a small pond created they put a gravel barge in the pond. The gravel barge is just a square barge, usually floating on 55 gallon drums or such for flotation. In the center is a flexible pipe (seems to me like they were 6-8 inches in diameter) hooked to a very large pump. The pump is fired up and starts pumping up dirt, sand and gravel which spits out the discharge side on to a series of progressively finer screens. The large river rocks get screened out at the first 3-4 inch square screen, 1-3 inch gravel is next, then pea gravel (generally under 1/2" or so) and finally the sand is on the bottom. As the powerful dredge pump runs the lake gets deeper and the sides cave in and the lake gets bigger. The barge is towed around the lake as the lake gets bigger. River gravel is generally pretty well rounded from rolling around in running water which knocks the rough edges off. I have worked on construction sites where we had a big rock crusher and crushed large slabs of stone into smaller pieces to use as the aggregate used in concrete. It probably binds better than river gravel due to the rougher edges.
In Cameroon and Guinea in Africa sand and gravel mining was a manual operation. Large dugout or plank built boats were towed, paddled or poled to spots in the river or mangrove swamps and at low tide a diver got in the water and would reach or dive down to the bottom and scoop up the sand and gravel with a bucket then surface and empty the contents into the boat.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/DSCF0681.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1610208856)
Gravel boats on the kissi-Kissi River near Forecariah Guinea, West Africa
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Yes, there is a Kissi-Kissi River and it looks like the bridge is about 173 m long.
Sometimes this was a one person operation, sometimes one man would stay in the boat and the other was the river rat doing the digging. They would fill the boats till it looked like a light chop on the water would sink them. Most boats I saw looked like they would hold about 1-2 cubic meters of wet gravel.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/DSCF0734.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1610209112)
No much free board left on this load.
At the landing the sand and gravel is unloaded using shovels and it is thrown against a piece of 1/2" hardware cloth built on a frame at about a 45* angle. The sand and tiny pea gravel falls through leaving the larger gravel on top.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/DSCF0675.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1610209343)
Boats full of gravel being unloaded at the landing.
Often someone will set up a concrete block operation at the landing taking the freshly collected sand and gravel and mixing it with cement in volcano shaped mounds with water added in the volcano mouth. This concrete is then poured into metal forms along the bank, tapped down to remove air pockets, the excess on top is troweled off then the form is lifted off and moved over a few inches for the next block and the cinderblock is left to air dry on the bank in the sun. Local builders will drive to the river bank and buy these blocks for any new building projects they are working on. I never asked the price of such blocks but my price no doubt would have been more than a local buyer would have been charged.
In Guinea as shown above the gravel was collected at low tide from the Kissi-Kissi River. In Douala in Cameroon the operations I saw were out in the mangrove swamps and I never actually got to visit the collection sites. It was common to go down to the unloading site and see a naked man working in and around the boats. I have seen loaded boats coming down the local rivers with a naked man poling his vessel to the landing. When or just before he landed he'd slip on a pair of ragged cut-off shorts as a concession to the civilized world.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/DSCF0957_Howard_with_family.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1610209918)
I would walk around the local villages and observe and talk with the local residents. The kids loved to have their picture made and some young man or lady was excited to get to "snap" this picture of me with his family or neighbors.
Here is another picture of a fully loaded boat full of gravel. Note the boatmen use their 8" contractor's shovels as paddles. It almost looks like the water level is already higher than the sides of the boat.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/DSCF2099.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1610215556)
This was taken right at sunset just outside our camp in Forecariah, Guinea in West Africa.
Regarding fractured stone being better for making concrete, when I worked for a concrete company I learned that concrete used on state jobs such as bridge decks had to have fractured stone as aggregate. State inspectors actually would sample stones and count the number of sharp points.
Dad used to have a Chain link fence and monument business and he refused to bid on state or federal fence jobs. He said their specifications would list things like #1 gravel being used in the concrete around the post. He said evidently because it was labeled #1 they evidently thought it was better when actually pea gravel would have been must stronger and held the post in place better. #1 gravel were big river stones more appropriate for landscaping and would not bind well in concrete.
I remember the US bases in Iraq and Afghanistan bought a lot of the big river rock and laid in walkways for dust abatement. I don't know how many sprained or broken ankles we got from that as they were nearly impossible to walk on.
Did you know the snapping turtle (Alligator and common snapper) has a little organ on his tongue that looks like a worm? The turtle lays in ambush on the bottom of the lake or stream with his mouth open and wiggles this lure which attracts fish who dart in and try to grab it and the turtle lunges forward and catches a meal.
When we first moved here to WV we met a couple who used to help do recovery diving in the local lake and river to look for the bodies of people who drowned. (We used to and still sometimes have several people each year who slip on the slick stones in the river while wade fishing and drown, often after hitting their head on another rock and too much water weight and current for them to get up.) Recovery diving is often done in zero visibility water so the recovery divers dive to the bottom of the stream and crawl along the bottom feeling with their hands for the body which is usually hung on a rock shelf or snag or something. The lady was feeling around and stuck her hand into the open mouth of a large common snapper and he chomped down - hard! That was her last recovery dive and she refuses to ever attempt another.
Thanks WV, sound like you have been on some interesting adventures, its nice to here the normal side of the story about places otherwise we only here the horror stories when there is a disaster or war. (our own countries included) :)
I've got one for you. When I was a kid I liked to play in the crick (AKA creek). A few times I saw a muskrat jump into the creek, roil it all up and go limp, and let the current carry it downstream. When it figured it was safely out of sight it would "come back to life" and crawl up out of the creek.
Thanks for posting. I was never around enough muskrats to know anything about them. Maybe we should think of them as "Water Possums". :D
Did you ever see a flying squirrel? Most people have not even though they may have plenty on their property. They don't fly - they glide. Flying squirrels are nocturnal and are rarely seen in daylight hours and only then when disturbed in most cases. They are about 6" long from the tip of their nose to the base of their tail and maybe 4"-5" wide when they spread their "wings". They have a section of thin loose skin between their back and front feet. When they stretch their legs out this skin tightens and allows them to glide from spot to spot. They have huge, limpid brown, bulging eyes and extremely soft, velvety fur. They typically live in small round holes in dead limbs or standing dead trees. I do not know if they take over woodpecker nests or make these holes on their own. They will sometimes live in splits or big cracks in trees and occasionally even in small leaf nests they build or take over from other squirrels. They have a flattened tail about an inch wide they use as a rudder in flight.
If you are looking for flying squirrels go to your woodlot and look for standing dead trees on your property and search them for small round holes approximately 2" in diameter and normally near the top of the tree. An occupied den will usually show up as clean white wood. To check for occupancy you can lightly shake the tree or scrape the side of the tree with a nearby limb to simulate a predator climbing the tree. Be careful shaking these old trees as many are weak and can fall back on you. The area around the den if often especially weak and the tree top may break off at the base of the den. If a flying squirrel is present he will often stick his nose and face out to see what is causing the disruption. Sometimes he will often run out a few inches and stop while flattened out on the side of the tree. If you cease all noise and movement the flying squirrel will normally duck back in his hole. If you continue the disturbance the squirrel will generally run higher and higher up the tree. When he has what he considers sufficient height he will stop, squat down then launch himself out into the air as he spreads his legs and goes into glider mode. I have seen them glide and land on a tree 40-50 yards away but usually they have a target closer. They will often glide down at a very steep angle then flare out to slow and land on another tree. They often have another hole designated and sometimes look like they fly right into it.
I had an old HS friend who several times tried to catch a flying squirrel that would fly directly to a hole in a large tree where he would escape. Jeff studied this and went home and sewed a thin cloth bag/pouch which he then stuffed and opened in the escape hole. He went over and shook the den tree and the squirrel jumped and glided right into the bag which Jeff then closed and pulled the squirrel out and took it home for a pet.
Flying squirrels are very cute but not ideal as pets because they are nocturnal and are only active at night. When you want to play with them they want to sleep, when you want to sleep he wants to get up and chew and run around. As rodents they have to chew constantly it is essential you keep plenty of hard foods like walnuts or hickory nuts and such so they keep their teeth worn down.
They will often target barns and feed on leftover tidbits of animal feed or chew holes in sacks of feed or grain. I had one co-worker in Albany Ga who had one get in the attic of his house and was keeping him up at night. When he finally found what it was George was able recover 20-25 lbs of pecans the squirrel had stored. George finally got the entrance holes closed so the squirrel could not get back in.
A cousin of mine and I chased a flying squirrel into a den hole at the base of a hollow tree. It was near sunset and we came up with the truly brilliant idea of smoking him out. In case he got past us we put Randy up in the tree to grab him as he came by. I gathered a bunch of dry leaves and pine straw and lit them. The smoke did not go up in the hole as planned but came out and up choking me and Randy till I got the bright idea of putting my burlap catch sack over the opening. This worked better and in a minute or two I felt something scratching on my bag so I moved it to check and Rocky came running up with his tail on fire. He ran across Randy's bare leg burning/blistering it then past him to the top of the tree. He stopped momentarily and the fire in his tail died to a small red glow - till he jumped! The tail flared up and it was "Flame On" again as he glided from tree to tree. It was a pretty dry time of year and we were worried we were going to set the woods on fire which fortunately we did not. I always wondered if the hair grew back on his tail after that? In closing I can only suggest you do not try smoking an animal out of his den.
We had a bird house hanging by a wire, the limb was growing around the wire so the girls (11 and ) decided we needed to undo the wire so the tree "would not hurt". Top of ladder, undoing the wire when a flying squirrel came out, jumped on my shoulder, and then the next tree. I was lucky to keep my balance as that was not expected, the house being "empty" as far as we knew. Girls ran after the squirrel and ignored me.
TR,
Your girls sound like they have their priorities in line with many of my buddies and, truth be told, family members. :D I am glad no squirrels or Texan's were injured in the making of this memory. I had forgotten they will take over birdhouses but seem to remember them doing so.
I love to see them gliding as they are so graceful in flight. They look little almost square kites and they shift their bodies or their tail from side to side to direct their flight then when they land they just flare out and land ever so gently on their target tree.
I took down a deer feeder several years back. Squirrels had chewed a 4" hole in the plastic barrel. There were a couple of inches of corn left from after my feeder battery had died. When I lowered the feeder I found a flying squirrel trapped. He had plenty of corn to eat but no water but the sides were too tall and too slick for him to climb out. He did not look to have been in there long as he seemed in good health. I put a feed sack over the hole and tilted the barrel till the squirrel jumped out in the bag. I brought him home and showed him to Becky. We took the squirrel back to the area he where I caught him and released him and she got several pictures of him on a small tree. No doubt his den/nest was near by and he returned safely as soon as we left.
When we were in the woods if we found a den and happened to catch one I would normally take off one my boots and tie him up in my sock till I could get him home.
We had one here in a hardware cloth cage and I was feeding him assorted nuts and such but I found he would not eat the pecans. It finally dawned on me he had never seen a pecan as they don't grow up here. I cracked a couple and put them in his cage and when I got up the next morning every pecan had been eaten. If it was a hickory nut or black walnut he knew what do do but not a pecan.
More than once got in deer stand and heard movement then see 2 big eyes with the light.
as you know I have the same problem with chipmunks. :D
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=112872.0
The last flying squirrel I saw was one with 2 babies in one of my bird boxes, which I left alone. When I did wildlife control work I found that they like attics and when the winters are rough they will go all over in a house looking for food. I trapped several out of one attic using rat snap traps, which are a mediocre trap for Norway Rats, but well suited for flyers. Some that I caught were partly eaten by the rest of the flyers; I found no other animals in that attic. Like many critters they are great when they stay out of the house. They get into houses, usually up high and really like to get in where there is a bad screen by an attic vent fan. I think the most I removed from 1 attic was 22.
I cut a big beech here about 20 years ago. Out came a flying squirrel as the tree was falling. The only one that I have ever seen.
Cfarm,
Beech trees are perfect den trees for flying squirrels and other den dwellers such as racoons, squirrels, possums, woodpeckers, screech owls etc because they they are notorious for have large hollow cavities.
Did you know there is a nocturnal species of monkey? In South America especially in Columbia, Ecuador and Peru there is a monkey about the size of a Fox Squirrel and supposedly up to about 18" tall called the Noisy Night Monkey (Also called Spix's Night Monkey). It apparently is one of the fastest monkeys when traveling through the jungle because it is adept at using all 4 feet when moving and can hurl itself further through the trees than most monkeys. It apparently lives in small family groups with the father doing much of the child care. It has a series of, apparently, very loud calls it uses for protection and to find a mate and such. It is rarely seen, similar to our flying squirrel, because of its nocturnal nature.
We saw part of a NNM on Christmas Day 2008 while overnighting at the Samona Lodge in the Cuyabeno in Ecuador. It was right behind the lodge near the water tank/tower where the lodge pumped up water from the Cuyabeno River to gravity feed to the bathrooms in the lodges and kitchen. The monkey was in a 4" diameter hole in a tree about 50' above ground. All we were able to see of the monkey was his face as he peered out to see what all the noise below was about. If our guide had not pointed him out I would never have seen this one.
The first flying squirrel I ever saw was when I was a kid. We liked to go in the woods and push over dead trees. One a day I pushed one over and when it hit the ground a flyer rolled out, climbed a tree then glided to another tree; I was mesmerized. Regarding hollow beech trees. When I hauled logs the company I worked for bought a stand of timber on state land with a lot of beech that looked really nice. When they cut it nearly every one was hollow. Luckily it was within reasonable distance to a mill in Pa. that chipped it into chips for masonite.
I had a lot of big old beech on my land. Couple feet across was no big deal. I was cutting one and made the felling notch and than started the back cut. All at once I had liquid running out of something. I thought my saw had sprung a leak!! ::) :o Than I realized the saw did not have that much gas in it. :D It was hollow inside and there was water in it.
I dragged and cut up a clump of small beech trees yesterday for firewood. They were a clump on the edge of my creek that washed out and uprooted last year. I think there were 6-7 stems with the biggest was about 10" diameter. When I cut the stems off at the base the clump stood back up and dropped in the creek. The stems are pretty much dead and ready to burn. I am torn between whether to save the butt log from the largest stem for lumber or not as what little beech I have sawn has been beautiful lumber. I will look one more time before I buck it further. I do know beech is very dense and the hardest wood I ever tried to split. I'd hit it with a splitting maul and it would bounce back at me. I'd try to drive a wedge in it and it would bounce a foot or more up in the air when I hit it a good whack.
Back in the days when I used increment borers on a regular basis we would occasionally hit a hollow with water, more often a hollow with pressure built up, from bacteria most likely. Also if not care full a hollow will eat an increment borer bit.
Did you know frog sweat will make you see things? It will if it comes off the Giant Tree Frog in Peru. The GTF looks like our little green rain frogs, you know - the ones that stick on your window pane after a summer rain shower - only much bigger. The ones I saw were about 6" from nose to rump. When agitated they exude a thin milky looking sweat all over their body. This sweat has toxins in it that force a predator to immediately spit out the frog. I don't know if they would eventually kill the predator if they actually ate him or not. Native Indian tribes would collect this sweat/poison and take a burning ember and burn a spot on their skin and rub the frog sweat it it. This would cause them to have visions which they used to locate their next hunting area.
On our vacation into the jungle of Peru we took a small boat up the Amazon in April of 2010 our local Indian crew caught a couple of giant tree frogs and staked them out spread eagled about 6" above the ground with 4 cords tied to small stakes driven into the ground. They tickled the frogs nose and belly with a green leaf until he began to ooze white sweat. They wiped the sweat off with what looked like a wooden coffee stirrer or popsicle stick. They would let this sweat dry and crystalize and sell it to some medical or pharmaceutical company who were studying it for possible medicinal use. After they finished collecting the frog sweat the frog was released. GTFs kept in captivity cease to produce the same toxicity apparently due to the change in diet. (Note: No GTFs were killed or injured in the making of this memory.)
Our guide, a relocated Floridian game warden, living in Iquitos Peru and married to a local Peruvian lady, said he had tried the technique of rubbing the sweat into an open burn wound and it definitely sent him on a trip. He said when it wore off he was amazed that it had corrected his vision and some other improvements. There are still lots of strange things out there about nature we haven't learned yet.
Did you know that even though they look like a horse or donkey, a zebra barks like a dog instead of neighing, whinnying or braying? The first time I ever heard them was on our vacation to Kenya and we were on the Masai Mara preserve we kept hearing all these dogs barking and frogs croaking and I finally realized there were no dogs, jackals (which sound like birds BTW) or hyenas and it was actually the zebras feeding on the savannah.
Did you know that an African (I'm not sure there is any other kind) wildebeest croaks like a frog or toad. So does a Mongolian yak.
As mentioned previously on our first trip to Kenya on the plains of the Maasai Mara at the tail end of the annual migration we were surrounded by zebra and wildebeest and we kept hearing barking and croaking like frogs. The barking was the zebras but the constant croaking was coming from the wildebeests. In the summer of 2006 after completing an assignment in the Gobi desert and while on vacation in central and northern Mongolia we observed herds of yaks and to me, they sounded almost identical to a wildebeest. I don't know how closely the two might be related. I think a yak is closer to a cow.
The Elk is the only North American animal with Ivory . Two teeth 🦷
Quote from: Walnut Beast on January 15, 2021, 04:54:13 PMThe Elk is the only North American animal with Ivory . Two teeth 🦷
Now wait just a minute for a fact check here. :D I thought walrus had ivory tusks and they lived along the coast of Alaska and Canada. I was not the world's best geography student (If I'd ever known I would travel as much as I did I'd have been a lot better student) but aren't they still considered N. America? ???
I have a couple of carved shakers I bought somewhere in Africa - Cameroon I think. They are about 6-8 inches long and 1.5" diameter or so. Evidently they used to make them for kids rattles and fill them with beads or gravel to make some noise. They may have also been a teething toy. The guy that sold them to me swore they were hippo teeth. They may well be cow bone for all I know.
BTW - I did not know elk teeth were ivory. Thanks for posting that tidbit.
I remember a long time ago in an outdoor magazine, I read about a guy who went to far Northern Canada. While there, the Inuits killed a walrus and cut it open and removed clams from the stomach and ate them. I think that it was in the same article that he told about a lake with landlocked cod in it that he fished for.
KEC,
I am surprised the clams were intact after being eaten by a walrus. I never thought about it but guess I always assumed the walrus would crush the shell before eating them. I used to catch big alligator snapping turtles who were full of mussels but the mussels had been crushed before the turtle swallowed them. I am not surprised the Inuit ate intact clams they found inside. I'd bet most indigenous people would eat any stomach contents in their prey they found reasonably intact. I have used unlaid eggs I found in alligator snapping turtles. My wife made a bunch of cookies or brownies out of some one time just for the novelty of it. They tasted fine and the kids got a kick out of taking turtle egg brownies to school with them.
Did you know dogs dream? My not so fearless Rat Terrier, Sampson, will often be laying here on his favorite spot on the rug in front of the TV and we will hear him sound like he has the hiccups or such. When we look at him we see his eyes are tightly closed and he is making little Woof, woof, woof sounds in his sleep and his feet are all twitching as if he is running. I don't know if he is chasing a rabbit or running from one.
Did you know seal oil is supposed to help treat cholesterol problems? At least that is what the plaque says at the memorial at Cape Cross on the northern end of the Skeleton Coast in Namibia.
Cape Cross is home to a huge fur seal colony and previously the seals were harvested for their skins, meat and apparently their oil. Maybe this is why you never hear that Eskimos who eat seal blubber don't die of stroke or heart attack. (Then again - Maybe they do but we just don't hear of it.)
Come to think of it, I really don't hear much of anything about the eskimos🤷🏽♂️😊
Yeah, we are probably politically incorrect in using that term.::) We likely should be referring them as Inuit or indigenous residents. I think Native and Indian and we know Redskin is no longer a PC term. >:( Oh well, at least my dog still loves me. :D
This is something everybody needs to know! Did you know you can estimate the size of an elephant from his footprints? A pretty good estimate of the height of an elephant is determined by measuring and then doubling the circumference of his footprint. A 12" diameter footprint (They are slightly oval rather than being round - kind of like many logs) would be a little over 3' in circumference which would mean the elephant would be a little over 6' tall at the shoulder.
At least this what out guide in Thailand told me on a trip over there in 2011.
Did you know one of the best ways to pick Muscadines (Wild Scuppernongs - Vitis rotundifolia), if you are fortunate enough to live where they grow, is in a boat. Muscadines are big, sweet, tough skinned wild grapes that grow in much of the southern USA. They are usually black or very dark purple but occasionally you may find bronze versions. They may grow to be over an inch in diameter. When you eat them the skin is usually discarded as it is too tough to eat but when cooked the skins make some of the best preserves you ever ate on a hot biscuit.
Muscadines usually get ripe in the Late summer and early Fall around September and October. The vines grow hundreds of feet to the very tops of their host trees and can be very hard to reach the fruit but they often grow on trees along the rivers and streams. If you watch carefully you will often find a tall tree along a river with a vine full of ripe muscadines where the current has undercut the roots of the tree causing it to fall in the river. While this usually kills the tree the muscadine vine roots remain firmly rooted in the soil and it survives and thrives for several more years. The tree will often be dead and leafless making the muscadines easy to see and access.
In such cases you can often run a boat right up beside or even under the vine and pick the muscadines. If you catch them at the right stage the fruit will be so ripe they practically fall off at your touch. In those cases if you can position your boat under the bulk of the fruit you can give the tree a good shake and literally cover the bottom of your boat in ripe muscadines in seconds.
Warning - check the host tree carefully before you start as there may be a big wasp or hornet nest in the tree or even a fat ill tempered cottonmouth.
May have told this before, can never remember. But, I was about 10 maybe a little older, fishing with dad on the Meramec River, Franklyn County, Missouri. We fished a section below the farm that had an Island that was our circle fishing spot, go up river to the point, back down the northern branch, down to the point and back up to home. The northern branch had tall limestone bluffs with hanging over trees. Dad liked to float slow down the bluff under the trees, deepest water and the fish seemed to congregate there. We are floating under the trees when a cotton mouth drops into the center of the boat. We had wooden oars which dad applied to the snake, and the bottom of the boat, there by inventing the live well, as well as teaching me ever cuss word in his vocabulary, which I still use to this day.
Sounds familiar. I don't know how many boat paddles and poles I have broken beating on snakes. (Truth be told many were probably harmless water snakes.) Everybody I used to fish with in N. Fla had a tale of a friend or relative, if not personal experiences of shooting holes in the bottom of a boat or two (some were slow learners).
Another truth be told is I'd really prefer the snake in the boat to stirring up a nest of big red wasps. I don't know how many times we'd tie a bushhook on a limber limb for catfish and come back the next day to find a big catfish shaking the life out of the limb only to find it was home to a wasp nest the size of a dinner plate covered with very angry red wasps. I don't know how we put the line out without disturbing them to start with.
Did you know that individuals from unlike animal species will hang out together for mutual protection and companionship? In Africa it is common to see small groups of big old bull animals from different species together. You may se an old elephant, rhino, cape buffalo, and giraffe hanging around together. These will be old bulls that are still healthy and virile but not strong enough to maintain a harem of cows so they have been kicked out of the herd. Together they have some mutual protection and companionship.
Impala very often stay close to baboons because the baboon troop always has designated "watchmen" and are very alert to predators. We saw an old cast out Blue wildebeest bull we nicknamed "Uncle Remus" hanging out with a bunch of impala fawns on Kruger Game park in South Africa.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/Uncle_Remus~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1611148239)
Here at my home in WV it is common to see 1-2 big fox squirrels hanging around a bunch of wild turkeys. Evidently the turkeys scratch up and expose walnuts and hickory nuts and such they can't eat but the turkeys do.
Great interesting information 👍
Deer, turkeys and squirrels tend to be like that around here, at least to some extent.
Quote from: Tacotodd on January 20, 2021, 08:42:36 AM
Deer, turkeys and squirrels tend to be like that around here, at least to some extent.
Funny... I just had a turducken image pop into my head.
Its a Deer stuffed with a turkey stuffed with a squirrel ....... Deeturkels?
Let's seen how should I do this...my family on one side are Indigenous inhabitants of this continent. My Dad calls himself Indian😊
Did you know maternal instinct will cause animals, even natural enemies, to do strange things?
We had an old housecat named Ugly. Ugly was an excellent hunter constantly bringing home mice, chipmunks and rabbits she had caught around our place. Our neighbor had a terrier who would find nests of baby rabbits but would not kill them. The neighbor kids would bring the rabbits to us to raise. We had a tiny Evenflo bottle with a soft rubber nipple we got from our vet and fed the rabbits powdered bitch's milk and they generally thrived on it. In one instance Ugly had just had a litter of kittens that morning when the neighbors brought us a baby rabbit that was probably a week old as it was covered with fur but it's eyes were not yet open. We were wondering and tested our theory and put the rabbit in with the kittens and Ugly immediately accepted it and immediately began to nurse and clean it just like her own. The rabbit opened its eyes the next day. It was a funny sight watching him nurse with his feline siblings who were all 3-4 times bigger than him. All went well for several weeks till Buggs got older and jumped out of the box and another kitten we had in the house spotted him and accidentally killed him with her excessive rough horse play.
When I was a kid we had an old female Boxer who used to try to steal the puppies of our dachshund. She would also nurse our kittens included two that became large tom cats but would still nurse her even as adults.
I have read articles of other natural enemies adopting young of natural prey including a lioness who repeatedly adopted various Oryx fawns. She could not nurse them but protected them for weeks at a time from other lions and other predators in the area till it died then the lioness would steal another oryx fawn to raise. I have read of lions adopting leopard kittens and a bald eagle adopting a red-tailed hawk chick it had evidently brought to the nest to feed the baby eagles.
A couple of years ago I watched 2 whitetail does and 3 spotted fawns just outside my backyard fence and we watched all three fawns nurse from both does. I have heard if a doe is killed the fawn will also be adopted by other does in the area. The same is supposed to be true with elephants which will raise calves from others.
A few years back I watched a coyote hanging around with a black bear and 2 cubs. Acted like best of friends
This went on for several weeks. Was able to locate the bear den and watch another pair of cubs the following spring.
Quote from: Edvantage on January 21, 2021, 11:36:12 AMA few years back I watched a coyote hanging around with a black bear and 2 cubs. Acted like best of friends
This went on for several weeks. Was able to locate the bear den and watch another pair of cubs the following spring.
Ed,
That sounds pretty neat. How big were the cubs? You'd have thought the mother bear would have been very protective of them and killed or chased away the coyote if they were small and would seem like natural prey for a coyote.
Did you know that male members of the deer family all have antlers that they shed and replace every year while members of the antelope family have horns that they retain their whole lifetime. The largest member of the deer family is the moose which can grow huge spreading antlers. American Elk (In Norway what they call an elk is actually a moose), caribou, reindeer, whitetail and mule deer all are true deer. The pronghorn antelope is the only antelope I can think of while there are many kinds of antelope in Africa from tiny rabbit sized duiker or dik-diks to Eland which are the largest.
Antlers grow back with more or less points and bigger or smaller each year depending on diet and health. Generally for a whitetail buck will have his best rack of antlers at about the 4.5 to 5.5 year old mark. After that his antlers will often be smaller. We had antlers from a pen raised buck at Auburn from tiny spikes up though about 12-14 points in his prime. While the size and number of points varied from year to year they all had the same symmetry. This deer had a constant feed supply but the antlers still peaked at 4.5-5.5 years old and were less impressive after that.
In our area this is the time of year you are most likely to find any shed antlers as the bucks have recently or are currently shedding the old antlers. These shed antlers will not last long in the wild as mice, squirrels, chipmunks, rabbits, etc. will chew the antlers to obtain the minerals in them.
Did you know the incubation temperature in the nest determines the sex of some reptiles such as turtles, tortoises and, IIRC, alligators and crocodiles. Since the nest temperature in nature is typically pretty consistent throughout all hatchlings from a given nest will either be all male or all female.
Knowing this fact helps biologists save threatened or endangered species. In the Galapagos Islands eggs of tortoises are collected and incubated at specified temperatures to raise more of whichever sex is needed. For example they may produce more females if they need more future breeding females. The clutch of eggs can be divided and both male and female will be produced - something that would not normally occur in nature.
In the case of the Galapagos tortoises the biologists hatch the baby tortoises and raise them in captivity until they are about 5 lbs then return them to their home island to increase their survival rates.
Did you know in the skull of an alligator snapping turtle (and I assume on a common snapper) on either side of the brain stem (the bony tube extending from the backbone) is a large pocket of muscle/meat. The next time you butcher a big turtle when you cut the head off be sure to take a thin fillet or boning knife and make a quick circular cut inside the skull freeing these cuts of meat. On a 70+ lb turtle these chunks may be as big a soda can and when you cut them crossways into steaks and flour and fry them they are excellent eating.
Note - be sure to comply with all your state game and fishing regulations pertaining to harvesting of turtles and other wildlife. When I left Fla as a young man the regulations were restricted to harvesting no more than one alligator snapping turtle per day while when I moved to Albany Ga there were no such restrictions.
Most of us associate a turtle as being a slow creature. Did you know the softshell turtle is a serious exception to this rule? A softshell turtle is relatively flat with a pointed nose, leather like shell and looks like a ground frisbee when he gets off a hook in the boat or on the ground. They race along the ground at a very impressive clip. You are not going to catch an escaped softshell by walking. Trotting or running is going to be necessary.
A softshell turtle is also much easier to clean than a snapping turtle and is very tasty when fried similar to a chicken.
According to the man who was New York States' DEC wildlife pathologist for many years, big Common Snapping turtles can have a lot of accumulated toxic chemicals in them. I would not eat one taken from an area known to be polluted. New York legislators, in their infinite wisdom, declared them to be New Yorks' official amphibian a few years back. And, whereas they were an unprotected species for many years, they are now protected with a season and bag limits. And you cannot trap them. I doubt that DEC knows how common they are. You find out when doing summer beaver control work with body-gripping traps and start catching turtles. When you take them out of the trap and think they have drowned, a few minutes later they start crawling away. They somehow can store oxygen and go without breathing for some time.
@KEC (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=40283) - fact check please. Did NY really declare a snapping turtle, a reptile, to be the state's official "Amphibian" or was that a misprint? :D
OK, I just checked on line and it shows the snapping turtle is their state reptile and a wood frog is the state amphibian.
Good point about eating turtles from polluted areas. Our state Fishing Regs includes quantities of various fish to eat from various waters. I think bream and rainbow trout have no warnings.
Quote from: KEC on January 25, 2021, 10:07:41 PM
According to the man who was New York States' DEC wildlife pathologist for many years, big Common Snapping turtles can have a lot of accumulated toxic chemicals in them. I would not eat one taken from an area known to be polluted. New York legislators, in their infinite wisdom, declared them to be New Yorks' official amphibian a few years back. And, whereas they were an unprotected species for many years, they are now protected with a season and bag limits. And you cannot trap them. I doubt that DEC knows how common they are. You find out when doing summer beaver control work with body-gripping traps and start catching turtles. When you take them out of the trap and think they have drowned, a few minutes later they start crawling away. They somehow can store oxygen and go without breathing for some time.
Yeah, snappers are pretty fearsome creatures. I don't know a lot of guys that fish or trap them, its rare these days. There are lots of them for sure, nasty buggers. I ran over one with the fire engine once (I had no choice, code 3 to a working fire and I could either run him over or flip the truck, he lost the coin toss) made quite the spot when the dual tires hit him.
For a long time (since Mario anyway) the NYS DEC has been run by politics, not science. I was part of a campaign to fight some new regulations about 15 years ago and we had them on the ropes bigtime because we kept going to public hearings and asking simple polite questions based on science and the data. We knew the science, and they had NO data. We had them on the ropes and I was interviewed by several papers and on the radio news. Newspapers were given written copies of my statements and questions which many printed verbatim. The DEC was stymied by a simple minded guy with no college degree armed only with google and hundreds of hours to read, research, and study. They finally called me and asked for a private meeting WHERE THEY ASKED WHAT IT WOULD TAKE FOR ME TO STOP GIVING INTERVIEWS AND GOING TO THE HEARINGS. They admitted the science was clearly in our favor but they had been instructed by the Governors office to push the new regs through. I told them right is right and wrong is wrong, neither I nor the others would let it go. They finally bagged the whole plan. BUT, they waited 5 years and passed the regs anyway with only one barely advertised public hearing that we never found out about. The NYS DEC is nothing but another political branch. Its too bad, because they have a lot of good people, just bad managers. Hopefully the wildlife and the land survives this section of our history.
One of our regs that ticks me off every time I see it is the prohibition on having a gun and a bow in the woods at the same time. In rifle season you can take a bow but no gun. In muzzleloader season you can substitute a crossbow for a ML but not a compound or recurve bow. Since I hunt mostly out of permanent shooting houses I'd love to take a bow along during rifle season. If the deer was 20 yards away I'd grab my bow. if he was at 50 yards I'd grab my rifle. I have never understood that restriction.
Quote from: Old Greenhorn on January 25, 2021, 10:59:33 PM
Quote from: KEC on January 25, 2021, 10:07:41 PM. . . a simple minded guy with no college degree armed only with google and hundreds of hours to read, research, and study. . .
Not so simple minded.
. . and a university degree shows the world what?
The ability to sort out facts from political fiction is key to keeping a sense of balance and perspective in times as weird as these.
Good on you buddy!
I can understand your frustration, Howard!
That makes absolutely no sense!
Did you know there are many different kinds of bananas? Here in the USA we typically only get one type. Sometimes you may see a store also selling "finger" bananas that are only a few inches long. In Africa we had bananas like we see here, the little finger bananas (which I find to be sweeter than the bigger ones), another relatively short (4-5 inches) large diameter "white" banana (which is also tasty and seems to keep better than most others), and there is even a red banana which I found comparatively bland compared to the others listed. Then there is the plantain which is kind of like a banana on steroids.
All the above bananas were pretty readily available in Cameroon and Guinea in west Africa when I worked there. I had never eaten plantains till then. Many of the locals liked green plantains sliced and fried but I prefer them dead ripe and they are best fried in local artery clogging palm oil but are also very good when cut crossways into 1/4" - 1/2" rounds and nuked for about 5 minutes. The best plantains I found usually had skins that were already about half black. I have tried them here in the USA but they are never as good as the tree ripened ones I got in Cameroon.
BTW - did you know a banana plant only bears one stalk of bananas? I think the plant would grow to full height in about 9 months and put on a fruit stalk. Commercially when the stalk is about half mature they put a plastic bag similar to a dry cleaner bag over the fruit which makes the fruit grow down instead of outward. Once mature the stalk will never bear again so it is cut off and the plant is cut down at the base and a shoot from it will form a new plant.
Good stuff Howard 👍
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on January 25, 2021, 11:15:13 PM
One of our regs that ticks me off every time I see it is the prohibition on having a gun and a bow in the woods at the same time. In rifle season you can take a bow but no gun. In muzzleloader season you can substitute a crossbow for a ML but not a compound or recurve bow. Since I hunt mostly out of permanent shooting houses I'd love to take a bow along during rifle season. If the deer was 20 yards away I'd grab my bow. if he was at 50 yards I'd grab my rifle. I have never understood that restriction.
They passed several years ago you can bow hunt during rifle season. So you could have a gun to but you have to wear orange if bow hunting
We can bow hunt from the first day of bow season which usually starts in late September until the last day of December which ends our season. You can use a crossbow all that time too. The only exception is the week of muzzleloader season when you cannot use a compound or recurve bow - you can still use a crossbow or a ML. You cannot have a gun and bow in the woods at the same time even during rifle season. If there is gun season going on we do have to wear orange which I feel is reasonable. I just don't understand the prohibition about carrying a bow and gun during gun season or why we can't use a compound or recurve bow in ML season - then again., they never asked my opinion.
Small game season starts a week before bow season and lasts another month after all our deer season goes out. We cannot take a .22 rifle or shotgun with small shot during bow season to shoot any small game we see if we take our bow for deer. (Not that I would as I would not want to scare off any deer in the area. Also I rarely shoot my squirrels as they often warn me when there is a deer coming.)
We had 3 mares that were related, mother daughter and a half sister to the daughter. They foaled at the same time and the foals nurses the first mom they came too. So at weaning time I just kept removing one mother couple of day the next mother and then the last one.
Our old cat Ugly (The one that was nursing the rabbit) and her daughter both had kittens the same day. They were both in the whelping box in labor and both were massaging (What we always called "Making up dough") each other's bellies during labor. There were 6-8 kittens and I never knew which one was the actual mom and they both raised all of them till the kittens were weaned.
OK so I goofed and mistakenly said that NY declared the snapping turtle the state amphibian instead of reptile. I stand corrected on that singular point. Old greenhorn said it right that there are some good people at our DEC. And there are some others.....
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on January 26, 2021, 12:11:09 PM
We can bow hunt from the first day of bow season which usually starts in late September until the last day of December which ends our season. You can use a crossbow all that time too. The only exception is the week of muzzleloader season when you cannot use a compound or recurve bow - you can still use a crossbow or a ML. You cannot have a gun and bow in the woods at the same time even during rifle season. If there is gun season going on we do have to wear orange which I feel is reasonable. I just don't understand the prohibition about carrying a bow and gun during gun season or why we can't use a compound or recurve bow in ML season - then again., they never asked my opinion.
Small game season starts a week before bow season and lasts another month after all our deer season goes out. We cannot take a .22 rifle or shotgun with small shot during bow season to shoot any small game we see if we take our bow for deer. (Not that I would as I would not want to scare off any deer in the area. Also I rarely shoot my squirrels as they often warn me when there is a deer coming.)
I agree they need to get that changed. On late season antler less here they finally changed so you could use a bow or crossbow in addition to rifle just a few years ago.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/DSCF0630_red_bananas.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1611711315)
I've been polishing up my journal (925 pages at present) and going through my photos and trying to select sample pictures that match the text and came across these red bananas I bought in Guinea at an open air market called "The Old Man's Market". Figured I'd post it here to go along with this mornings post.
KEC,
Not trying to bust your chop there buddy. ;) I just figured with some of the legislation some of the folks in the NY legislature are famous for it sounded like something they would have done. If I hurt your feeling I apologize profusely and will fix you a big ol' bowl of hot grits and butter the next time you are in the area.
Quote from: KEC on January 26, 2021, 07:25:17 PM
OK so I goofed and mistakenly said that NY declared the snapping turtle the state amphibian instead of reptile. I stand corrected on that singular point. Old greenhorn said it right that there are some good people at our DEC. And there are some others.....
I wouldn't even call that a 'goof', more like a typo or poorly thought word choice. I make those too many times a day. ;D Although I think the apology with grits is well meant, it wouldn't strike me as any kind of 'reward'. Not a grits guy (OK, lets all get ready for the hail storm of protests and offers of re-education :D).
After my post last night I did some searching and thinking about that event I mentioned. It was in 2003 and I could only find one single reference of all the public testimony I offered at more appearances than I can remember at town and county boards including the county legislature. 16 municipalities drafted stances against the DEC proposal and many more organizations. That was an article in a 4x4 forum which was a full clip of an article in the local small city paper in which I was quoted when I addressed my own town board asking for a resolution, which they passed. (I wrote it for them, just like the many others I had written, including the legislature's.) I learned that if you hand folks things in writing, as long as it saves them time that will take it verbatim, provided it passes muster. So when I presented at a hearing I had printed copies of my remarks which included my contact information to provide to the press and they printed them in full because I made it easy. When I went to towns and the county I had pre-written suggested statements of objection. Most used them with very little editing.
But I post here just to clarify my statements about the folks at the NYS DEC. I found there were 3 layers of folks there. There were the working stiffs like most of us, biologists, foresters, maintenance folks, clerks, mechanics, office folks, etc. They are just doing their jobs like any good folks. Then there are the natural resources professionals with degrees in their specialties, they do research, make recommendations for rules and laws, forestry plans of state lands and other things that feed the policy making (or so they hope). These are good folks too, in the main, BUT some of them want to get to the next level and they do things they would never do unless they were trying to make points or keep their job. Because above these guys are the managers bureaucrats and political appointees. This is where it all goes wrong because they really don't give a hang about the environment, the land, or the people, it's all about how they can get to the next step up the political ladder. Many of them have no usable skills having to do with the environment or wildlife. These folks manipulate all the smart people underneath them and look only for what will get them ahead.
When those 2 nice fellas came to ask me politely to 'shut up' they were very honest. They knew their stuff and they laid it on the table (literally) they told me I was right, they had no data to back up the changes, that the counter proposal I had was not only a good one, it is what they have wanted to do for years, but the managers won't give them the funding to do it. They were very curious how I knew so much about managing a 250 square mile plot of wilderness because my proposals and suggestions were all 'cutting edge' (their term). They pleaded with me to let it drop because they were stuck between what was right and a demanding boss that wanted to get 'the plan' pushed through in time for some political deadline the Governor dreamed up (and he was a crook and a real piece of work, but that's another story). I felt bad for them. They were honest smart guys. But right is right and I stayed the course. The big date came and went and they didn't get their plan through, 'too much public opposition'. They waited 5 years and then slipped it through when nobody was looking.
Never turn your back on these guys and always stick with what is right.
Now the whole story is history and you can scarcely find any evidence of it anywhere, like it never happened. ;D
WV Sawmiller, Not to worry, we're good. Old Greenhorn, I'd love to hear 'The Rest of The Story". I'd like to talk to the right people at DEC about an issue that concerns me, but I'm pretty sure it would resemble running into a brick wall at 100 mph.
Did you know that if you move a box shell turtle (terrapin?) from his small home range he becomes lost and will spend the rest of his like lost and trying to find his way home? I did not know that as a kid or when my children were growing up and every time we would see one we would pick it up and take it home for a pet. My kids even had some in Albany Ga and they would take them down to the neighbor lady who had strawberries in her flower bed. The box shell turtles would run around and eat all the pill bugs/rolly polies. When they could not find any more they would start to eat the strawberries then we would pack them up and take them home. I remember we had road work on the county road in front of our house one day and we were stopped about 2 miles from home by a steep bank. Suddenly pebbles began rolling down beside us like a min-rock slide ended by a BST who evidently lost his grip. I am sure he had tumbled at least 50' before landing upside down on the road. Becky said "Oh, poor turtle" and jumped out and righted him. He seemed to be doing fine, just shook up.
Don?t Move a Box Turtle Somewhere ?Better? ? For Fox Sake Wildlife Rescue (https://forfoxsakewildlife.com/2019/11/03/dont-move-a-box-turtle-somewhere-better/)
If you see a BST even if you think he is in a risky location please resist the temptation to relocate him as you will be dooming him forever.
A little off the normal course here and if you have a spouse who is into quilting you might pass this info along to them.
Did you know quilts were used as a warning system by people helping escaping slaves on the underground railroad? Over on WV state road 122 and US Highway 219, a major route through VA and WV, it is a common sight to see brightly painted quilts on people's barns. The first time I passed through and saw them I thought the residents had a quilt shop and were selling quilts and such. After more research I found that area was part of the old underground railroad used by escaping slaves on their way north to freedom. The people who were helping would hang out a particular style/pattern of quilt which meant things like: "Safe place to stop, Danger present - steer clear, Come after dark, etc" Anyone outside the loop seeing a quilt hanging out drying or airing out would not have thought anything about such a sight as quilts were used in every home and there were no dryers so the quilts were hung outside to air out and to dry. (I don't know how often a mistake was made when someone not in the loop hung out their quilts and escaping slaves saw and misread them.)
Many of the people in our area paint a quilt pattern on their barn and never realize the original purpose it represents. I sawed for a customer 25 miles from here last October and his wife and a barn quilt on the end of their barn. My wife came along with me and told her about the history of them. The lady and her husband had moved here from near Atlanta GA and had no idea and thought it was just a decoration common to this region.
https://folklife.si.edu/magazine/underground-railroad-quilt-codes
There is an old barn just outside of Syracuse, NY that its owner told me was used as a hideout stopover for the underground railroad.
Quilt squares on barns have exploded in popularity in the last 20 years for reasons having nothing to do with the underground railroad. The red editorial WV links, by the way, appears to be attempting to discredit the notion that quilts were used as a slave-era code. Whether they were or not, I have seen no evidence that barn squares have any connection with such an idea. Most of the Virginia examples are following the trend of southern Ohio examples, where this recent fad seems to have picked up steam, and where there was no inkling of underground railroad codes involved. I doubt many of the barn square owners in Virginia, West Virginia, or anywhere else, associate them with the Railroad.
As I mentioned above my customer had one on their barn and did not know about their use in the Underground Railroad. While I am getting old I am not that old so I can't personally verify this was the case. I suspect many of the people who may have been involved kept quiet long after the war and emancipation of the slaves because there would still have been a lot of ill will by some folks. It makes sense whether it is true or exaggerated and is thought provoking.
We have a good friend in Greenville SC who has a quilt top she got from her great or great-great grandmother. The slaves had actually done the sewing to put the pieces together. Sherman's troops came through and his "Foragers" stole/confiscated all the quilts in the house for his troops to use. Since this one was not finished they left it and it had passed down to her. She is 89 right now. She asked my wife to finish quilting it for her but when Becky looked at it and heard the tale behind it she said she would not touch it as it needed an expert who specialized in restoration and such. Hopefully she will find someone who can do it and put it in a museum or such such some time.
Did you know racoons are famous for washing their food? What they are actually doing is wetting their food, apparently to make it easier to swallow. If they are near water they will pick up pieces of food and swish it around good then eat it. If no water is nearby they will eat normally.
My uncle was a big time coon hunter and my cousin had a pet coon in a cage they had caught somewhere. I remember watching him feeding grapes to it. The coon would pick up each grape and swish it in his water dish several times then pop it in his mouth, chew, swallow and repeat. My cousin dropped a sugar cube in the cage. The coon grabbed it and promptly swished it in his water dish where it immediately dissolved. The coon frantically felt all around the water dish for the missing cube with no luck and finally gave up and walked to the back of his cage. My cousin dropped another sugar cube in and the coon grabbed it and ran over to his water dish started to wash it then paused in mid air and popped it in his mouth. I'll give him credit for being a quick learner.
I been told about that sugar cube habit before by a co-worker. I have not heard anything about this before or since, until now. Thx WV. If I ever see her again then I'll let her know!
We had some pet raccoons on the farm when I was a kid. They could cause more trouble than you can imagine. They'd chew open bags of cattle feed, then one would take its' paws and push feed to a hole in the floor and the feed trickled down and landed on the back of a cow in her stantion. The raccoon found it fascinating, not so the cow who was swishing her tail to get it off.
My son had a couple. Last one he had he caught 3 in the road in a local park coming back from fishing one night. Gave 2 away and kept one. DNR gave him a permit for it. One of our daughter's best friends was in the vet program up at WVU and they neutered and vaccinated him. Wife made him a halter out of 2 dog collars - small one around the neck, bigger one around the waist, joined by a strip of leather with D ring for a leash. He was litter box trained but would not cover like a cat. he had lots of personality and would play tag and run from you then chase you and hassle like a happy dog. He'd fish in the minnow bucket for a snack and they'd toss him a small crappie and he'd run under the bow and eat and snarl and bite the heck out of you if you tried to take it away. He was always vicious about his foot and you did not mess with him a about that! He was so fat and slick it was hard to pick him up if he did not have his halter on. BTW - he was a real chick magnet. My son would take him for a walk and every teenage girl who saw him wanted to come play with him. I am thinking about catching one for myself - with my luck I'd empty out the local nursing homes. ::)
My old mentor used to tell the tale about a guy who had one and they left him in the house alone one day. He said it got up in the kitchen cabinet and pushed out every dish up there. he broke every glass, plate, saucer and bowl except for one heavy china bowl that would not break and he took a crap in it.
My grandfather said when he was a kid down in central Fla they had 2 bear cubs and left them alone in the sleeping cabin one day. They came back and found the cubs had both climbed up the chimney, over the dog trot to the dining cabin, slid down the fireplace there, knocked over a bucket of hog lard and rolled in it and generally made a huge mess there then climbed back up the chimney and returned to the sleeping quarters and rolled in Great Grandma's quilts. When G-Grandma returned in real short order they had a new home address with a circus!
Wow that's some funny stuff 👍
Did you know that many, if not most snakes, even non-poisonous ones, will vibrate the tip of their tail when alarmed? If it happens to be resting on a dry leaf it sounds just like a rattlesnake and will have the chill bumps racing themselves up and down your spine.
I assume if this is an instinctive reaction but even a harmless rat snake or such will have your heart racing if the circumstances are right.
When I did wildlife control work I got a call for a raccoon in an attic. At first they thought that a burglar was up there. I believe that the coon climbed a small tree growing up to the edge of the roof, then went up the roof to the chimney, down the inside of the chimney, out through the flue pipe to a T joint, out the open side of the T to the basement. Then it went up the inside of an end wall between the studs (balloon frame house) to the attic. Then, frustrated at not being able to get out, it proceeded to destroy everything stored in that attic. There are few animals as destructive as one that has gotten in somewhere and can't get out.
Oh yeah - see what a bobcat can do to a ragtop jeep when he gets trapped in there!
Did you know the eastern part of the USA as far up as southern Ontario is home to one of the most feared and deadly species of snakes known to man? It is known as the Spreading Adder or Blowing Viper? When threatened this thoroughly vicious reptile will spread its neck wide to show you just how mean, vicious and deadly he is and he will strike at anyone in range. If he fails in his attempt to envenomate or chase away any threat he will actually bite himself and his venom is so toxic he will almost immediately roll over and die usually with his mouth open.
The only thing is - this snake is totally harmless and his antics are all a bluff! This is the hog nosed snake. When threatened he rears up and maybe a foot of his neck (on a large snake say 30" or so) spreads out 2-3 times the normal width as a warning and he will make mock strikes if you get too close. If this fails he will pretend to bite himself and flip over on his back with his mouth open as if dead and play possum. If you turn him back upright he will flip right back over and remain belly-up.
Hog nosed snakes have some popularity as pets but if you adopt one he will quickly abandon the bluffing and playing possum act.
If you encounter one, once you get your heart restarted, please don't hurt him as this is a useful and totally harmless snake.
They may have poison glands deeper in their throat, actually to help digestion. I have never seen one over a foot or so, they tend to be lunch for a lot of critters, other snakes particularly.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10007/bird~2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1591536958)
Most I have seen are small also. I think they may have some mildly toxic venom, or it could just be their bad breath, but it is not enough to make them a threat to people. They certainly don't have any prominent fangs. They are not really an adder or a viper. Those are just a couple of mis-labeled common names people hang on them. Thanks for the photo - they look wicked for such a harmless snake.
Did you know cow manure is a common building material in many parts of Africa?
In Kenya, when a Maasai woman marries the tribe makes a break in the Kraal (Corral)/perimeter fence and they place the corner posts for her house. She and the other women collect brush and weave it into a wall frame and every morning they collect all the fresh cow manure they can find and plaster it on to the frame. Remember the tribe brings the cattle in every night to protect them from lions, leopards and hyenas. Each family builds a calf pen from about 1/3 of the house to keep the calves safe and to separate them from the cows so they can milk the cows the first thing every morning. Anyway, this way the fresh cow manure is applied in stages so it dries and is ready to support the weight of the next level. When the cow manure dries it has no odor so when visiting a Maasai house you will find it cool and pleasant inside.
BTW - each engaged/married woman has her own house and her own gate in the perimeter wall so by quickly counting the houses built or under construction you can get a count of them. BTW2 - if a woman of exceptional status dies the village will bury her inside her home and burn it on top of her instead of taking her body several hundred yards away and leaving it for the lions and hyenas to eat which is the normal Maasai burial practice.
The Himba tribes on the other side of Africa in Namibia and tribes in parts of Ethiopia north of the Maasai mix fresh cow manure with sand and make a plaster to put on the sides of their homes and for flooring. When dry it is very difficult to distinguish it from poured in place, finished concrete.
We visited a village in Ethiopia many years ago and every child we saw had a board, pot, or tray with a clump of fresh cow manure and were all headed to the school building. When we got to the school we found one wall had cracked or been damaged and was being replastered. All the fresh manure was dumped into a pile and water was added and one little barefooted boy was happily stomping away and mushing it up between his toes. When it reached the right consistency it was applied to the wall and finished with whatever tools they had available in the village.
Might just have to resort to that if framing lumber keeps going up 😂
Not sure how that construction material will work in climates with regular rain or monsoons.
:-X
Did you know that shrews don't hibernate and over winter months they shrink their brain and the skull cap, so they can conserve energy? Seems brains require the most energy from food to maintain.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on February 01, 2021, 10:19:48 AMDid you know cow manure is a common building material in many parts of Africa?
I have sawed a few crappy logs which made crappy lumber. I occasionally have to tell customers that I can't make chicken pie out of chicken crap.
Quote from: Roxie on February 01, 2021, 01:50:54 PMDid you know that shrews don't hibernate and over winter months they shrink their brain and the skull cap, so they can conserve energy? Seems brains require the most energy from food to maintain.
Roxie,
Please keep politics out of this thread even if you change the names of the political parties involved. :D
I grew up in Fla and I guess our shrews never had to worry about that level of cold. I do know their salvia had some mild toxicity and they have a very high metabolic rate and have to eat something like their weight every day.
I tried keeping one for a pet as a kid and he wore me out chasing up grasshoppers and grubs and worms for him. I think he only lived a couple weeks under my care.
Quote from: JJ on February 01, 2021, 12:09:12 PMNot sure how that construction material will work in climates with regular rain or monsoons. :-X
JJ,
Good point - the areas where I saw it used were desert or semi-desert. With the Maasai they did not stay in the same area over a couple of years before they moved anyway. I think their homes were more for shade and for the cool evenings rather than for wet weather.
To read an enjoyable imagining of a year's time from a shrew's perspective see the book Life of a Sandstone ridge by David R. Wallace... I think.
Short-tailed shrews have musk glands and their waste has a special nasty/funky odor. They like to check your mouse traps for you and eat the mice. When they come in houses they generally stay at ground level or go in the basement. They have toilet stations where they go repeatedly and the smell is bad. They are well and good outdoors but no so good in the house.
Did you know if a squirrel or many other animals escapes into a hole in a tree you can usually pull him out if you can access the hole and know how to remove him?
When I was about 13-14 my maternal grandfather was squirrel hunting with his old buddy Mr. Frank. My cousin and I joined the hunt in progress and Gypsy his old semi-retired bluetick coonhoud or Cricket, his constant Rat Terrier companion, chased a grey squirrel into a hole about 3' high in a 12" diameter red oak. Grandpa looked around for a greenbrier or grape vine but none were handy so he found a straight, limber hickory switch about 3' long. It was about the size of a pencil at the little end. Grandpa out took his pocket knife and split the end twice - one inch down from both directions. For good measure he spit on the end then inserted the top end into the hole and slowly pushed it in turning constantly in a clockwise direction. A time or two he would hit a blockage then the stick would move up a few more inches. This was the squirrel moving higher in the hole. Eventually the stick stopped turning and Grandpa began to slowly pull down. He would hold steady pressure then it would give a few inches and stop again as the squirrel was grabbing new footholds on the way down. Grandpa would periodically give the switch another quarter to half a turn to keep the tension on it. Finally the upper end of the switch came into sight with the squirrel's tail wrapped around it. Grandpa reached into his old striped pillow ticking shot sack and pulled out a small homemade hammer handle he carried for that purpose and grabbed the squirrel by the back leg, pulled it out and gave it a sharp rap on the head as it came free.
Every responsible hunter should learn this technique in case he has to retrieve a dead or wounded animal that takes refuge in such a den or hole which is a common occurrence.
Normally the best material for this purpose is a greenbrier (Smilax) vine about the size of a pencil on the small end. The perfect vine is the one with the small thorns near the base and you can reverse the vine sending the thorny end up first. The length is dependent on the depth of the hole. In many cases a 3' vine or switch is adequate and much easier to work with than a longer one. The last squirrel I had to twist out I had to use a 12' grape vine to reach him.
The smaller diameter works best because the tail or fur can be wrapped around itself. Anything that will help hold the fur is useful. The thorns on a greenbrier, splitting the end, moisture, tree sap or any gummy substance on the end to grab the fur helps. I guess if I had another world class squirrel dog like I did in my younger years and I was doing a lot of squirrel hunting I'd keep a tube of shoe goo in my shot bag.
Keep the vine twisting in the same direction as you push it into the hole or den. Often a squirrel will chatter at you as the stick touches him. His tail twisting completely around itself gives the best hold. When you feel this happen stop twisting and start pulling but use steady pressure instead of brute force or you can pull his tail off (Don't ask me how I know this) then it is very hard to get a new hold on him. Holding steady pressure will cause the squirrel to tire and he will slip a few inches and grab another foothold and repeat till you can grab the tail or back foot and pull him out. I used to toss them to my dog who would quickly finish off the squirrel for me and as a reward for treeing him. Warning - the squirrel is normally very ill-tempered when forcibly removed like this!
The last one I twisted out was an old boar fox squirrel who was 12' up in a hollow poplar tree. When I pulled him out he grabbed the back of my right hand and started pretending he was a beaver making a new lodge, I shook him off and Sampson grabbed him when he hit the ground but the squirrel twisted around and wrapped his hind legs around his neck and started chewing on his left ear. Sampson howled and shook the squirrel off but not before our old late Australian Shepherd instinctively attacked him. The squirrel ran one direction still attached to 12' of grapevine and Sampson ran the other way howling at the top of his lungs (Have I ever mentioned Sampson is not a very brave dog?). I rescued Sampson, who still periodically has nightmares and wakes up howling on our living room rug, then I chased down the squirrel and killed it.
I have used this technique with coons and rabbits and it should work for groundhogs, foxes, etc who take refuge in a den hole. With a coon you have wrap up the fur on his side and he is much bigger and with longer teeth and a generally worse disposition than your average squirrel so be well prepared when you reach for him. (I made this mistake and eventually reversed it stuck the barrel of my Ruger Blackhawk .357 up the hole and shot. There was a lot of thumping and bark and rotten wood falling followed by the well dead coon - that was much easier than twisting and manhandling him). A rabbit has very thin skin and you have to use much more finesse when actually pulling him out.
WV, Where is your disclaimer that no animals were harmed in the making of these stories?
I think I ate it along with the victims. :D
Actually a few months after we got married I took my new bride hunting at my parents place down in Fla. Bertha, unquestionably the world's best squirrel dog and pretty fair contender for coon hunting champ, quickly treed a squirrel. I walked around the tree so it would show itself to Becky. It started running through the treetops and I think she emptied my little Remington 870 .20 gauge pump trimming the limbs right behind where the squirrel had just passed. We lost sight of him then heard Bertha barking on tree so I went over to her and she was jumping on a small oak with a hole about 3' high so I told Becky "We've got him now". I quickly cut a perfect greenbrier and as Bertha sat watching expectantly and knowing what was coming, I ran the vine up the hole a couple of feet till I touched the squirrel's tail and he started fussing violently and moved up a few more inches. Becky said "You're hurting him." I answered "It won't hurt long" and pushed the stick up a couple more inches and he fussed again and Becky said "Stop, you're hurting him." I reminded her she had just filled the air with shot trying to kill him but my explanations were in vain. She made me quit so I started walking away which really confused Bertha who kept going back to the tree. I finally had to pick her up and carry her away. When I put her down the next time Bertha made a beeline back to the house. That is the only time I ever had her go on strike on me. I guess her attitude was "I've done my part. If you aren't going to hold up your end of the job I'm going to the house!"
You HAD a really good winner of a dog! You just really confused her (both of them)!
Did you know driving over a pile of elephant dung can result in a flat tire on your vehicle?
One of an African elephant's favorite foods is the acacia tree which also produces some wicked thorns capable of puncturing the tires on an SUV, car or pick up truck. Elephants rip off limbs and tree tops and stuff huge chunks of them down their throat loosely chewing and swallowing without breaking them up very much. Whole acacia thorns pass through their digestive system intact and pass out in the bowling ball sized "elephant pills". Running over one of these pills may leave you changing a tire in elephant and lion infested territory so drive around them.
Did you know turpentine was made from the sap of pine trees?
Turpentine was widely used as paint thinner and for cleanup of paint brushes and rollers and equipment. It was also used for medicinal purposes as a disinfectant.
When I was a kid in N. Fla large, mostly planted pine plantations, would be "chipped" at a certain size. I never saw the actual process but I assume they used a sharpened spud bar similar to a mechanic's scraper to remove a wide strip of bark about 12" wide and about 3'tall. The trees were big enough this much bark loss would not girdle or significantly damage the growth of the tree. At the bottom of the cut a piece of thin metal about 6" wide would be folded in the middle and tacked to the tree to make a shelf. On this shelf a little metal cup about 3" wide X 3" deep X 12" long with a slight curve was placed tightly against the tree and the sap would run down into it. In older times these cups were made of glazed pottery and are highly collectable now when one can be found. Periodically workers would ride between the trees and dump this sap into a container. In the older days this would have been by using a mule and a small wagon and a big barrel to collect the sap. I don't remember how long it took before the sap stopped running enough to be worthwhile. The sap would be taken to a processing site where it would be distilled in a huge still operation.
Also when I was a kid we used to see loaded flatbed rail cars full of "lighterd" (heart of pine with all sap wood rotted off) stumps being transported to a processing site to make turpentine. I assume they were ground up and heated and possibly steam applied to remove the sap to make turpentine.
If any of you reading this are more familiar with the actual processing steps of the sap or "lighterd" stumps please chime in.
It has been many years since I have seen pine plantations where the sap was being collected to make turpentine and assume it is too costly and labor intensive to do any more. I think it is largely synthesized now from artificial ingredients.
Reminds me about how they say that, at one time, huge virgin hemlock in the adirondack were cut down and stripped of the bark for tannin to tan hides. The logs were left to rot. Many years ago, I talked with a log dealer who told me how guys would buy standing timber on state lands and the had to cut down all the trees that were marked even if they didn't want it. They would cut big clear elms, which would probably have value today, and leave them to rot. A mill that I worked for in the 1970s sold gun stock blanks sawn from elm to Ithaca Gun Co. They could stain it to look really nice.
In the early-mid 1800's my ancestors listed their occupation on the census as "turpentine", they were tarheels. That catface was periodically scraped to keep the wound flowing.
Since KEC mentioned tanning above: Did you know you can tan various skins (Furs, leather, buckskin, etc) and hides using various natural ingredients?
If you follow the Mountain Man TV series you have probably seen Tom Oar and his wife Nancy out in Montana and possibly Eustace Conway down near Hickory NC or others tanning hides using the brains from various animals. I used to hear an animal typically had enough brain to tan his hide. The skins are fleshed and usually salted then stretched and when dry a solution of boiled mushed up brains is painted on to tan the hide. One big advantage of brain tanning is, when properly done, it will allow the hair to remain on the hide, if desired. As a teen my son shot a small deer and fletched it and after carefully consulting the correct FoxFire book he brain tanned the hide with the hair on. It is still hanging here over the cabinets in our kitchen area 25 years later and looks as good as the day he tanned it.
I have watched documentaries where urine was collected and used to tan leather. I've read horror stories where people took the love of their life car across the border to Tijuana Mexico to get a cheap upholstery job on the seats and got a real bargain - till someone spilled a bottle of water on the seats and they smelled like an outhouse.
KEC mentioned the use of tree bark to tan leather. I don't know the recipe or entire process but it is likely they made a "tea" of the bark and soaked the skin in it.
One of my fondest memories in our travels to remote areas around the world was visiting an outdoor tannery on the outskirts of Marioua (Mar Wha) Cameroon in the extreme north, desert region of that country. The tannery smelled awful and had sheep, goat, monitor lizard, maybe a python or two, and a couple of cow hides in processing. On a lucky day you might find an elephant skin from the nearby Waza Game Park - the park officials would let selected friends or associates come skin any elephants that died of natural causes. The skins were strung on what looked like clotheslines around the tannery. Pits about 3' in diameter and maybe 6' deep were used to process the hides. In one pit they had a mixture of bird manure and buckets of water with hides soaking. In another similar sized pit a mixture of water and acacia beans (Which I now assume were high in tannic acid) were used. I don't remember the sequence of which pit was used first. The chemicals in these pits soaked into the hides and preserved them just as effectively and were as "chemically correct" as any sophisticated factory would have used. There were stations with smooth logs and tools similar to drawknives for fletching and smoothing/softening the hides.
We had to go meet and make nice with the "Chief" of the tannery which I guess is the term applied to any manager or foreman in charge in that part of Africa. He looked to be about 80 years old, wearing typical Muslim attire with the long thin blue shirt affair over matching thin trousers and rawhide sandals on his feet. He was laying in on a mat under a low lean too shade made of palm fronds. I remember he had a hint of a red T shirt poking out from under his shirt/jacket. My wife asked and got permission to take his photograph and he laughed and agreed. She took the picture and showed it to him on the viewer. He had serious cataracts and I offered him my reading glasses to see if the could see better with them. When he saw the picture on the small viewer screen of the camera he gave a big belly laugh and pointed to his neck at his red T shirt so he obviously could distinguish that. Becky offed to let him tuck it in and take another picture but he was fine with it as it was. When we got home she had a large print like an 11X14 or such made and I brought it back and we sent it back to him by our travel agent. I always wondered if he ever got it. With the Boko Haram idiots now active in that area I'll never be able to go see. Even then I saw lots of locals wearing T-shirts with Osama bin Laden pictures on them - and they did not have a crosshairs over his face as I was used to seeing so this "Canadian" tread lightly when we were up there.
Did you know the dung beetle (Tumblebug to us from down South) are found on every continent except Antarctica?
Where I grew up in N. Fla our local tumblebug would come rolling by with his prize a ball about the size of a nickle. The last I saw were on a trip to South Africa and they had rolled up a ball about the size of a tennis ball. There were 2-3 of them working on it and their was no coordination. One would roll it south the other north sometimes rolling his companion along with it and often over the top of him. They were pointed facing away from the dung ball and pushing with their back feet and it was very comical. They actually serve a very useful purpose in helping break down and scatter the waste. The ones I was familiar with would lay eggs inside the ball and they would incubate and when the little worms or grubs hatched they would feed on the nutrients in ball.
I have not seen one in the US since I was a kid. I don't know if pesticides helped wipe them out significantly lowered their numbers.
Did you know a "cow ant" also called a "Velvet ant" is actually a wingless wasp? They are very brightly colored reddish-orange and an inch long or longer. They are very pretty but very painful if you get stung by one. I just read only the females have a stinger and that some males even have wings.
They were always solitary insects running rapidly around searching for food or a nesting area in NW Fla where I was raised. They were not that common but we enjoyed seeing them when we did find one. We usually had to mess with it and as often as not we paid the price where if we'd just left it alone it would have done no harm.
woodpecker blue jay cardinal is the pecking order at my feeder. cardinal allows some small birds to feed at the same time.
Did you know that when splitting (riving?) wood into thin strips for weaving such as for replacing a bottom in an old ladderback chair or to make an old fashioned white oak cotton basket, you need to split the wood into halves each time until they are thin enough to use? Do not try to just split off thin strips from the edge of a larger piece. They need equal support on each side to split uniformly.
In the mid 1980s I stopped by Westville, a visit at a reconstructed 1850's era "town" outside of Columbus Ga. I encourage anyone in the area to visit if you have the opportunity. The founders collected various buildings from the area, dismantled and reconstructed them on site into a "town" with a church, blacksmith shop, residences, etc. The site brings in various craftsmen, some dressed in period uniforms, to operate the equipment and show the skills used in the 1850s including blacksmithing, spinning cotton into thread/weaving, etc.
I was fortunate enough to observe an 80+ y/o black gentleman who was weaving thin white oak strips into cotton baskets. He explained how many ribs you started with no matter the size of the basket and most interesting to me he explained and demonstrated how he made his weaving strips. He started with good clear, straight grained white oak sections a couple of feet long then split the "log" with a froe. He then took a half section and split it again into quarters which he split into eighths then sixteenths until he had strips about 1/8" thick that were thin enough and flexible enough to make the bends he needed. He explained how he stored his wood in damp soil or in water to keep it flexible.
Many years later while working in Cameroon I watched local basket weavers using rattan, a local vine, for baskets and such. I observed they used the same technique splitting the vine into halves each time till they reached the desired thickness.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/Yingui_trip_044.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1612793972)
The palm like plant in this picture is a small rattan vine growing in the jungle on the way to the village of Yingui, Cameroon. Larger rattan vines are collected, peeled and split into strips for weaving.
Sounds much like trapper pack baskets, which are woven out of thin strips of ash.
Did you know if you are planning a trip to watch wildlife the generally accepted best time is during the dry season - whenever that happens to be in the area where you are going?
In Africa the dry season means there will be much less vegetation to obstruct your view and the animals tend to come to and collect around the remaining water holes where you can clearly see a much wider variety of different species interacting (I.e. Eating each other :D). The down side is if you want to see young animals they are typically born in the wet season.
We visited the everglades several years ago in March which, luckily for us, turned out to be the dry season there although we did not know in advance. This meant the most available water was in the canals that had been dug to make the road bed which meant most of the alligators and water birds and such were there too. This meant all you had to do was drive along the main road and pull off on the side of the road to see lots (I mean lots!) of big alligators and cormorants and anhingas and such right there in plain sight. In fact we had to check carefully every time we stepped out of the car not to step right out on a big sleeping gator.
Very often, the people who like to see birds and critters have it best when the critters are not having such a good time. During harsh winter conditions birds flock to feeders, cornfields and roadsides for food and grit. After a winter of deep snow you can take a drive on a sunny afternoon when the snow is starting to melt and see a lot of deer on Southfacing slopes. Here it has been cold lately and the lakes and rivers are iced over. Find open water and you'll find waterfowl, gulls and eagles. At Onondaga Lake in Syracuse someone repored a count of 52 eagles by the open water at the South end of the lake. Some critters thrive in rough conditions such as coyotes that take advantage of deep snow to get deer. In Quebec, I read that coyotes suffer in mild winters and literally put on fat in harsh winters because the deer are easy to get. No doubt, the ravens benefit as well.
In the woods, the palimpsest of snow shows the traces of its life. The tracks and trails hard to see on frozen ground are revealed. The blood and urine are gaudy announcements of life and death. Sometimes you can get surprised how many things move around in a winter day.
KEC,
Very good point. We vacationed in December 2008 at the Cuyabeo Reserve in Ecuador (Where they have done several of the Naked and Afraid contests) and the water was dropping rapidly. We got out on Christmas Day as within days the stream could not have been navigated. A few more weeks and the lake would be drying up and they tell me it is full of Caimans and birds and such eating the trapped fish. I would love to see a sight like that but I don't know how we would ever get in to see it.
The last time we went to South Africa it was in late December and we went Kruger Park and it was the rainy season. You could not see as far but there were antelope fawns and other young animals everywhere which were really fun to watch. It is just a matter of picking what you want to see and time your trip accordingly. Just like watching the Fall foliage here in WV.
Will,
Yes. It is interesting to get up and see the fresh deer tracks in the drive or front yard. It is also a good time to find the deer beds and such and identify future hunting hotspots.
Many people hereabouts are scarcely aware of the existence of Meadow Voles. They are a preffered food for predators and can sometime occur in very high numbers in grassy areas like hayfields. There was an irruption of voles a number of years ago on a pininsula the juts out into Lake Ontario West of Watertown, N.Y. I went up there with some birding friends and we drove around checking the hayfields. We saw a Red-tailed Hawk or two, a Kestrel, at least one Northern Harrier, 4 Snowy Owls, 1 Long-eared Owl, 30-40 Short-eared Owls and 87 Rough-legged Hawks, all dining on the voles. As we walked across a weedy field, about every 2nd or 3rd step a vole would dart away by our feet. Memorable it was.
I have seen some kind of hawk work my field like a quid. Flying low over the field. I stood there and watched it do it.
Did you know the snake with the world's longest fangs is reported to be a Gaboon viper in Africa? There are reports of snakes with fangs over 3" (50 mm) long and a large Gaboon viper can produce and inject enough venom to kill 30 men.
The Gaboon viper is a very large, heavy snake with a pattern similar to that of an American copperhead that very effectively allows him to hide in the leaf matter in the jungle areas where he is typically found. The head on a large G. viper may be over 4" wide. Fortunately these snakes are not particularly aggressive and will generally not attack except in self defense. A large snake can be over 6' long and will be over 4" in diameter. I don't know what they weigh but am confident they can easily weigh over 50 lbs. (Based on the weights reported for the pythons in Fla on "Serpent Invasion" he may weigh 350 lbs. ::))
In all my travels in Africa I never saw one in the wild. I did have a co-worker who was a surveyor on a pipeline project we were working in Cameroon who found one along their planned route. He said they tried to get the snake to move but he absolutely refused and the surveyors finally killed him for safety of the team and to continue the mission.
We wanna be foresters at Mizzou had to take a survey course in summer camp. In the depth of the Ozarks in the heart of Wayne County. In our class of 17 students better then half came from the hills around southern Missouri. Some of the best men you could want to meet. We were in the woods doing a survey on part of the U of Mo forest. This generally meant cutting a trail and dragging a chain and taking notes. The lead man was a kid from Branson when it was a wide spot in the road. We were required to have a double bit, and this guy had one half worn out, but he could cut a tunnel through the woods in no time. The record keeper was another Missouri mountain man, tough as a boot and at home in the woods. He was squatted down taking notes, when the lead man started pulling the chain. In those day the chain had a leather pig tail in front and in back. As the tail end pig tail came in from of the note taker, he never took his eyes off the book, but whipped his machete out of the dirt and cut the pig tail off at the chain loop. He said he thought it was a copper head. We named him quick draw.
That's funny - but I can relate to his response! I nearly had heart failure walking through a trail in the jungle a few miles from my apartment one Sunday in Cameroon and almost stepped on a curved root in the trail. I thought I had stepped on a Gaboon viper or a forest cobra or a black mamba or such.
I was sitting in a deck chair beside our pool in Guinea. On both sides of the pool they had knee high shrubbery that was neatly trimmed by the local camp staff. Suddenly a Green snake raised up out of the hedge about 2' and looked me right in the eye and if ever a snake could think and form an intelligent thought, that one looked like he knew exactly what he was thinking. As near as I can tell from all the photos I have looked through I am assuming this was a green mamba. I got a gardener and we looked for him but never found the snake in the foliage. This snake was about 5 yards from the door of our safety officer's hut. (We lived in little round concrete huts about 20' in diameter with palm thatched roof's.)
Thecfarm, If the hawk you saw flies low over the field, maintaining a given distance from the ground, has a longish tail, wings tilted upward and has a white rump, think Northern Harrier. Females and immatures are brownish and adult males are very pale. WV sawmiller, I got a call once from someone who said that there was a snake in his toilet. When I went and looked, it did sort of look like it was, at first. A closer look and it turned out to be a spoon that fell in the toilet. He happily paid me to come over.
Did you know the best animal engineer in North America, if not the entire world is the beaver? They are the best in the world about stopping water. They carefully survey the area and find the best chokepoints to build a dam using available trees, limbs, leaves and mud. They stop up the water so they can transport, i.e. float, larger materials where they want them and so they remain under water for safety reasons. They will also dig canals used to float heavier wood and they build mud dikes to extend the height of the pond. Where I grew up and used to coon hunt in the Escambia River swamp beavers had built a dike about 12"-14" high for over 1/4 mile backing up water that high along an otherwise dead flat area. That is particularly amazing when you remember every bit of that dike was made by digging up a pint sized, or less, scoop of mud and leaves and swimming over to the dike construction and patting it into place. The beavers build dams in places that also catch wood in flood times then they reinforce that using nature to help them.
Beavers built a dam along the Big Escambia Creek where it runs into the Escambia River at the Fla/Ala line below the town of Flomaton Ala. Compounding the political issues was that the dam was on the Fla side of the line but the water was backed up into Ala actually flooding some streets in the town and putting them out of commission for decades. (Why was the State of Fla going to be concerned about spending money clearing a beaver dam/logjam that was only causing problems in Ala? :D) The dam helped create a logjam that went on for miles. They flooded several miles and hundreds of acres of lowland in the surrounding swamp. Compounding the problem was the logjam was in Fla but the havoc caused was in Ala. Finally after many years the US Army Corps of Engineers got involved and blew up and bulldozed the logjam to restore the water level to previous levels. They will have to continue to monitor the situation as the beavers will continue to try to rebuild to their former level of greatness.
State Highway Department people will sometimes spend who knows how much money to send a gradall and operator out to open a beaver dam only to have the beavers rebuild with a vengeange. Then they keep sending out the gradall. For less money they could pay a trapper to remove the beaver. And then, when a trapper, trapping for fur, not charging them, parks on the shoulder of the road to trap, he gets flack for parking there.
The State paid a trapper to remove a bunch at my parents where they had blocked the runoff. Mom would go out and clean all the briers and honeysuckle off some prized Magnolia or Maple only to come back the next morning to find a pencil shaped stump where her tree had been. They would come a couple hundred yards up in the yard from the edge of the pond. My brother told her she was just making it easy on them. I had a cousin who tried to shoot them but never could hit one. I think the state paid $75 each to trap them out. I made Mom mad telling her I was rooting for the beavers. It was just a little wet weather branch that had never held a constant supply of water before the beavers built the dam. They had fish and frogs and turtles there full time after that. I finally told her she should buy them a bunch of sugarcane and maybe they would get cavities and rot their teeth out. She never tried that as far as I remember. :D
I saw a series of photos one time where beavers had stopped up a big culvert under a road to make a dam. The road dept kept breaking it but the beavers would rebuild. They finally put an overflow drain in to remove the water. The beavers stopped that up. The road dept put about a 4' square box with chain link fence around the overflow. The beavers stopped up every hole in the wire. The road dept kept cleaning that out so finally the beavers built a reverse U shaped dam around the overflow.
For sure, beavers create some great habitat for other critters. One problem is that beaver were wiped out by early unregulated trapping. Then, people came along and built houses along streams. When beaver populations recovered, they caused problems for those homeowners.
Nature finds a way....
My Trapper Buddy "Muskrat "say,there's nothing worse Then a angry Beaver,four & two legged.
Did you know the udders on a female elephant are located between her front legs rather than between her back legs like you find on most large four legged animals? Other than primates which have their udders on their chest and animals with multiple udders such as felines, canines, pigs, etc. most female animals have they udders between their rear legs like a cow, horse, goat, deer, antelope, giraffe, etc.
udderly educational
:D :D :D
Did you know that 3/8" is called "Bee Space" to bee keepers? Long ago beekeepers discovered that in a hive, spaces under approximately 1/4" would be sealed with propolis or bee glue while spaces of approximately 1/2" or more would be used to build cells to store honey or raise brood. Using this knowledge they developed the current telescopic hive. They built removable frames the bees would draw out and store honey and brood while leaving approximately 3/8" between each which the bees used for travel and so the bees did not cross-connect them basically locking them into place. With this knowledge and design the bee-keeper could remove the top and inspect the brood and determine the basic health and condition of the hive. The top could be removed and more supers or boxes could be added to provide more storage space when there was a honey flow going on or removed to harvest the honey or at the end of the season to make it easier for the bees to maintain heat in the hive to keep the queen and any brood alive over the winter months.
Did you know that skunks like to eat honeybees and yellowjackets? Often you will find a hole in the ground in the woods about a foot or so deep where they dug up a yellow jacket nest in the ground. You will often find pieces of paper nest scattered around where they ate the brood. On a bee hive they will stand at the little porch on the bottom board on the front of the hive and scratch on it and lap up the guard bees as they rush out to defend the hive.
I poured gas in a yellow jacket hole one evening after they were back home. The next day I saw the nest had been dug up as you described.
Beaver is some tasty stuff. Tastes like really good tender roast beef
I guess I've always been too sentimental. When I was about 7, working with dad, I got stung by bees in the ground. He told me to pour gas in their hole and when I did their humming slowly faded away like a dying engine. Once they were quiet I went out behind an old rusty bulldozer and cried.
Saw fixer,
I wonder if the dying yellowjackets came to the mouth of the hole and the skunk located them and went after the rest. I'd have thought the gas smell would have kept him away. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
WB,
I have not eaten much of it but do know it is edible. My dogs ate the first one I shot and they would not eat a coon carcass after I skinned one of them. I think the standard recipe where I was raised was to wrap the beaver quarters in foil with BBQ sauce and bake it in a slow oven till done.
Will,
Yes. Crying for wasps is too sentimental. Since you were only 7 y/o I guess we can forgive you. :D
I have taken beaver(after removing the oil sacks and castors) and put the carcass cut in two into a large institutional cooking pot and put it on the wood stove overnight. Next day take it out, discard the water and debone it and discard anything you don't like the looks of. Put the meat into a crock pot with " Sweet Baby Ray's" Hickory and Brown Sugar Barbecue Sauce, stir it and heat it through, but don't cook it. The last time I took it to a game dinner it was gone by the time I got in the serving line. It's great in a hamburger bun.
KEC,
I thought you were fixing to post the old "How to cook a Fox" type recipe. As I remember it went something like:
Take one moderately freshly killed and skinned red or gray fox
Place it on a green cypress board
Garnish with carrots, onion, and sweet potatoes
Cover with foil
Place in a medium oven and cook for 12 hours basting hourly with soy sauce, salt and pepper until the fox tests tender when poked with a fork.
Remove the fox from the oven, remove the foil, throw it all away and eat the board. :D
I had beaver only once. Was a dark brown meat. If I would of been blind folded, I would of thought it was a pot roast.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on February 14, 2021, 11:52:41 PM
Remove the fox from the oven, remove the foil, throw it all away and eat the board. :D
I guess that prooves you can do almost anything with cypress! ;D
...that when armadillo's reproduce they have identical quadruplets . As a side note , they can jump high enough to hit a pursuing teenage boy in the chest , knocking him to the ground! :D
Ellmoe,
I did not know they had identical quadruplets. I always thought they looked like someone dribbling a basketball when they run and that they cannot see well and run into trees and fences and such. The last one I saw was in SC above Charleston SC in a state park several years ago. I did not know they even ranged as far as SC till then. This one was running around under a pine canopy. I let the others (Wife, daughter and family friend) get their cameras ready and I walked wide around him and herded him past. He bounced between them as they took pictures, ran over to my wife's truck and ran right into the front right tire, got up, shook it off and ran away.
Since we are talking about Armadillos for todays topic: Did you know that armadillos have been reported to transmit leprosy?
Cajun's/Coonass, who supposedly will eat anything, were reportedly eating armadillos and were warned to wear rubber gloves and such when cleaning armadillos to eat. I have eaten armadillo and properly prepared, it is very tasty - what I had tasted like good roast pork.
I've been told that leprosy lives in the palms of their feet. I don't know how true that information was, but it was enough for ME!
I've never had the opportunity to taste either beaver or raccoon, but I'd be willing to try it, especially if the cook tries it first and LIKES it's taste. That's very important. A cook is his own and worst critic!
Taco,
Good point. Maybe on my next visit to my dermatologist I need to have him check to see if my Eczema is really leprosy. ::) I have caught and eaten armadillos and my wife and I even visited a leper's colony in Cameroon in 2002 or thereabout. The patients there were amazingly upbeat and happy and we enjoyed visiting with them.
I have eaten raccoon many times. Usually we made it into hash or fried it if a real young one but one time I killed a big one while deer hunting on Ft. Benning and my wife cooked it off the bone and added BBQ sauce and we took it to a church social. One lady would not eat it at first because she knew we ate turtles and such "strange things" as she called them. I told her I would not say what it was but that I had killed a couple of deer already that season. She said she was fine with venison and ate a sandwich and came back for a second. Her husband told me "That was no deer, what was it?" and I mocked a coon squalling and he said "Oh, its a coon." to which his wife acted deathly ill. It tasted real good till she knew what it was.
It's like Sushi. People that will not give it a chance just don't know what they are missing.
It's just a matter of mind over matter.
BTW, Sushi, if you look carefully, means: the way the rice is prepared. For example, a California roll is Sushi but has zero fish in it. Now, Sashimi, different also. I've even had 1 thing at the Sushi bar here in AR that had nothing but fresh raw fish, and it was the best tasting and it had the most tender BEEF STEAK spanked hands down! Ingali I think it was.
But, if you can smell it, send it back ASAP! It's no good. It's done TURNED.
I know that I'm gonna be getting some flack over this, but, it's just good to be able to voice my opinion on it.
The first time I ever tried Sushi was in Okinawa at Gate 2 street outside Kadena AFB when I was in the USMC stationed over there. None of the staff spoke English. The sushi was pretty good and all was well till I popped that cute little star shaped green after-dinner mint in my mouth in one bite and learned all you ever need to know about Wasabi. electricuted-smiley smiley_dizzy whiteflag_smiley pepsi_smiley smiley_sick
Oh yeah, it's just the prettiest and simultaneously ugly hottest uuuh stuff that you're going to be eating. But the problem with it is since it's all natural then there is no GOOD way to know exactly how much is needed.
And like with so many things, it treats different people different ways. When I've chosen a bit to much, it acts like a VERY short and intense ice cream headache. Other people are different, in fact, I'm the only one that people say have ever described it that way. It's hot, but so is some salsa and curry, but I think that probably (don't know) has more to do with the ingredients (salsa) or qty used (curry). Just go easy with the wasabi and sneak up on it until you've got it right!
Wasabi is related to mustard and horseradish, and it's "active" chemical is completely different to the capsaicin in hot peppers, and latches on to totally different sensors, mostly in your nose, the ones are usually sense "irritation". So it makes your eyes water / cough etc first. Chilli may also end up doing that, but it attacks the "heat" sensors in your mouth first, and works it's way up from there. ;)
Both can pack a punch, especially if you aren't expecting it. :D
Yeah for me it is an instant burn with a smoky after burn then nothing. In my case I did not know it was a hot substance. What a way to learn!
Had a father -in law that would eat almost anything. Armadillo's were on the long list. To me his bbq'd "Hoover hog" tasted just like rich , fatty pork. I read once that in some Caribbean Iislands that is considered a delicacy and there was a limited season . If memory is correct , they call it tatoo.
Armadillos have been reported to have leprosy , but it must not be very common or I surely would be infected . They invaded N.Florida when I was a boy. I remember dragging my outdoorsman Uncle out in back of the farm to show him this unusual track. He had never seen such a track but speculated that it might be an armadillo as he had heard that they had been reported in the area. As with most invading species they soon overran the area. My high school buddies and I would go 'dillo hunting often. We'd just pull into any wooded area and go looking for them. It wouldn't be long and the chase would be on! We never kept any , just kept score on who could catch the most. They are very quick and can jump! My buddy was in pursuit of one . I came form the opposite direction and the pannicked 'dillo spun 180 degrees and jumped! He hit my friend square in the chest and knocked him flat on his back! I don't recall catching that one. I suspect I was too busy laughing a he got away.
As normal, the population has receded in numbers and they aren't nealy as many around as there was in those days.
Their proclivity to jump when startled or stressed does not bode well when they meet a vehicle when they are crossing a road. I see lots of road killed armadillos.
They tend to jump up just about the time that the engine oil pans are right over them and they take it out. It tends to be very expensive, if not caught right away. A hassle just to replace the pan on most of the vehicles today.
I always heard of possums as being referred to as Hoover Hogs where I grew up. Bologna was Hoover Ham IIRC. Bertha, my 17 lb shorthaired, curly-tailed fiest squirrel dog dug an armadillo up in a sand pit under an uprooted tree one night while I was coon hunting with her. Her bark sounded more like she was after a snake than a coon or possum. She had a distinct "scared" bark and she was using it then. Finally I heard her nails scraping on his shell and I went in to help. I grabbed the tail when I spotted it and killed him with a Ka-Bar knife. I never knew her to chase another although they were common in our area. I think she must have been bored that night as it was cold and poor hunting.
For today's topic, since I can't think of anything else: Did you know catfish can be caught pretty easily using set lines tied to limbs, baited and left out in targeted areas? They were called bushooks where I was raised but some places they are called droplines or limb lines. Check with local regulations as to any restrictions including locations, hook type, number authorized, baits allowed, and marking.
Trotlines are long lines with multiple short leads tied on and are also effective but can be more difficult to set out and can be more dangerous to use. They have their place but I find bushhooks faster to put out and take up and to run. Where fish thieves are common you may have to use a trotline which you can hide rather than a highly visible shaking limb.
I generally use about a 10' long piece of #21-#24 nylon cord (I use white but some people prefer black or green - white works for me and is easier to see), tie on a big eyed #2/0 to #8/0 hook (I now use only circle hooks) and add about a half ounce weight 6-12 inches above the hook (although a weight is not necessary in many cases) and tie it to a strong, flexible overhanging limb and adjust the depth to between 1-6 feet deep. I normally fish pretty shallow. For bait I now use live bait but that is not allowed in many states so check carefully. I have used cut chunks of soap (Camay, ivory and Octagon were the old standards), cut bait, worms, caterpillars and tried chicken or beef liver. Soap will only catch channel or blue catfish and not flatheads, turtle or "trash" fish. Live bait is essential for flatheads. The catfish mostly feed at night so you want to check your set lines at first light. Many people run them throughout the night removing fish and rebaiting lines to maximize their catch.
It is very exciting to pull up to a line on a lake or river and see a green limb beating the water to a froth but around here the really big fish are flatheads and may be resting on the bottom holding the line tight or swimming in slow circles until alarmed. When you pull on the line or they see the boat they usually have a violent reaction. Be very careful when landing hooked fish as many are lost at the side of the boat. Instead of trying to catch the fish with the net it is more effective to lower your landing net deep into the water then lead the fish into the net and then lift him out of the water. This helps keep him from being as scared and violent in his attempts to free himself.
About things hit in the road. I was once motoring down a narrow, crowned back road with a trailer load of hardwood logs grossing around 90,000 lbs. and I came over a knowl and a Ruffed Grouse was in the middle of the road. I did not want to hit it but there was no safe way to avoid it. I said "sorry, grouse" and straddled it. I looked in the mirror and saw the grouse fly out from under the trailer, unscathed. Happy ending.
I've watched squirrels and chipmunks get straddled by a vehicle ahead of many many times and it is funny when the vehicle passes over and they are scared and confused and did not know which way to run. Once in the clear they would run in circles then scurry back into the woods totally confused about what had just happened.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on February 16, 2021, 08:32:41 PM
I've watched squirrels and chipmunks get straddled by a vehicle ahead of many many times and it is funny when the vehicle passes over and they are scared and confused and did not know which way to run. Once in the clear they would run in circles then scurry back into the woods totally confused about what had just happened.
That sounds exactly like my former boss when he was forced to make a decision. :D ;D :D ;D ;D
I think I may have worked for him on a couple of projects. :D We had a regional manager filling in for our project manager in the Gobi desert of Mongolia and our warehouse caught fire and burned down, a water truck driver had a heart attack and died and drove through the fence. Mr. "Bucking for VP" was on the plane out the next day even before our PM got back to the site.
Did you know that birds can be poor judges of the strength tree limbs they choose to light on?
Several times we have witnessed large birds come in for a landing on a dead limb only to have it break under their weight leaving them scrambling to resume flight. Once we watched a limb break under a great blue heron who actually fell into the lake below before he could get airborne again. Multiple times my wife was photographing a mature bald eagle majestically spread his wings and gracefully settle on to a limb in the top of a tall tree over the river near here. The limb snapped and he dropped 25-30 feet toward the water below before he caught enough air under his wings to resume his flight and stayed dry. My wife was snapping pictures the whole time.
We never tend to think about birds lighting on dead limbs or squirrels jumping from limb to limb only to misjudge and take a tumble. It can be pretty funny to watch when we are fortunate enough to be at the right place at the right time.
I've seen it a few times but usually when I do I only see the limbs going down and the bird(s) scrambling like crazy to "get me OUTTA here"!
Quite a few years ago I was keeping tabs on a Red-headed Woodpecker nest in a dead soft maple tree. Then one day the top of the stub where the nest was was broken off. I'm not sure, but I think maybe the babies were out before it broke. Red-headed Woodpeckers are now very scarce in this area.
I was, okay - I still am - bad about shaking old dead trees when I see a freshly built/used hole in them to see if a flying squirrel pokes his nose out. I don't know how many times I have had the top snap or a limb break and I barely escaped getting seriously whacked. Usually they break off right at a woodpecker or flying squirrel hole where the tree has already been weakened. Sometimes the top breaks and flying squirrel scramble to open up and glide to a nearby tree.
Did you know some species of cuckoo and cowbirds are brood parasites meaning they lay their eggs in the nest of other birds tricking them into hatching and raising their offspring for them?
As I remember the cuckoo and cowbird eggs typically hatch faster than the host eggs do so once junior hatches he pushes the eggs of his pseudo-siblings out of the nest so he gets all the parental love and attention.
I knew that, Howard!
A few years back, I noticed that some of the female Cowbirds would occasionally enter one of my Bluebird houses!
They had a method though, they would light on top of it for what seemed like 2-3 minutes, that was long enough for me to get the .22, we don't have many Cowbirds around here now!
Chuck,
I did not know a cowbird could even get into a bluebird house. I thought they would be too big to get in. Then again, last summer was my first experience with bluebirds when a pair raised 2 clutches of 5 eggs each time. They were the highlight of our summer as they were right in front of our house and we could watch them out our LR window. I never knew they were so protective and aggressive until last summer when they chased squirrels, me, deer, my horse, and everything with feathers that passed by.
We have about half an inch of ice from last night which reminds me when we had an ice storm in Jacksonville NC when we were stationed in USMC there and Bertha, my squirrel dog got after a squirrel in the back yard. He got up the tree in good shape but the first time he jumped to a new limb it got real exciting and he was slipping and sliding and fell. He lost half the hair on his tail when Bertha chased him around a tree several times. He finally got back up the tree but learned to just park in a fork and wait and not try to jump to another limb till things thawed out.
I make quite a few Bluebird/Tree Swallow houses each year and the entrance hole is 1¼"!
I use that size to prevent European Starlings from entering, but they can still get their head in and damage/kill eggs and fledglings if the birdhouse isn't deep enough from the entrance hole to the bottom of the house!
But Cowbirds can still get in!
I made the opening in mine 1.5" and it is probably 7-8 inches below the hole to the bottom of the box so likely 6-7 inches to the eggs assuming 1" for the nest. It would take a pretty skinny or longnecked bird to reach the eggs.
I think our WV bluebirds must be more attentive or more aggressive than yours because I doubt a strange bird could light within 6' of the box of over a minute before they'd send him packing. :D I remember one big pileated woodpecker running circles around an ash tree about 7' in front of the box as the bluebirds swooped at him till he finally gave up and flew away.
I am quite sure that a bluebird cannot get in a 1 1/4" hole. A starling cannot get in a 1 1/2" hole. And, if a cowbird gets into a box, that hole has to be a bit over 1 1/2" in diameter. Thus, the long standing recomendation for a 1 1/2" hole for bluebirds. Yes, bluebirds can be fiesty. I've seen them get after a cowbird that was near their nest cavity. Unfortunately, House Sparrows can enter any box that a bluebird can enter.
Did you know if you are charged by a silverback gorilla you need to be submissive, kneel and keep your eyes down as making eye contact is seen as a threat and will quickly turn a bluff charge into an attack? When any member of the troop is threatened they scream for help and the silberback charges to the rescue which is how so many are killed. Poachers catch a small gorilla and make him scream then kill the silverback when he comes to their defense.
On June 25, 2003 while visiting the Dzanga-Sangha preserve in The Central African Republic we trekked in to watch a group of habituated gorillas being tracked by an Italian lady biologist named Cloe with the WWF and her pygmy trackers. The trackers had already located the gorillas so when we joined them they briefed us on what we needed to do such as keeping our distance, no flash photography and being submissive if charged by the silverback. The week before a tracker got too close and the silverback charged, then walked up to the negligent tracker and "bopped" him on the head with a closed fist as a warning. The tracker was not hurt but got the message.
Anyway we approached where the gorillas had last been seen and we did not notice a 5-6 y/o juvenile gorilla sitting with his back to a tree eating termites with a stick he would poke down their hole till they covered the stick then he'd lick them off and repeat. In the shade of the tree the black gorilla was impossible to see till we were 5-6 feet from him then he jumped up and ran off screaming which immediately summoned the silberback the trackers had named Kerchak (Tarzan's ape stepfather) came charging out of the bushes hooting and ripping up small bushes, breaking limbs, etc. until he was about 10' from us where he stopped and stood resting on his knuckles, 4' arms and 500 lbs of rippling muscles glaring at us. After a moment Becky regained her composure enough to take a picture of him walking back into the jungle. Note: No gorillas or tourists were killed or injured in making of this memory.
The highlight of that years personalized Christmas card was the picture of a gorilla butt with a caption "Can you guess what this is?". Following is current details on the preserve if you want to go visit Kerchak and his family. Check security recommendations before traveling as the last I heard the CAR was still in the middle of another civil war. There is a "small dry season" usually in late June or early July for about 3 weeks when the roads are moderately passable or wait till October or November for the best travel conditions.
Central African Republic gorilla safaris (https://www.responsiblevacation.com/vacations/gorilla-safari/travel-guide/central-african-republic-gorilla-safaris)
I really enjoy following this thread!
Thanks but remember we need your contributions and observations here too. ;)
This isn't earthshaking, but in the six days we've been in this icy time, there have been three big hen turkeys in the front yard looking for seeds or acorns. No pics but I'll try next time.
Is this unusual? Have they been coming around before? Is there anything else around your place they could be getting to eat? Around here the turkeys start coming in about this time of year and tossing through the hay I feed the horse and mule looking for worms and seeds in there. I have seen them in deep snow light in multi-flora rose bushes apparently eating the rose hips.
BTW - I love your photo on your posts. I bet she is not even a little bit spoiled either. Our youngest GD will be 2 on Monday and we have not seen her since her last birthday because of the virus. We get our first vaccination then so 3-4 weeks later we get the second and I guess 2 weeks after that we can go see them or they can come up here.
Had 2 big hens cleaning up the leavin's underneath the bird feeders yesterday, hadn't seen that in a long time .
Did you know that whitetail deer will stick their heads completely under water and feed on submerged plants like moose in Alaska and Canada will do?
Several times here on our local COE Bluestone Lake in the summers while fishing I have watched deer wade out about belly deer, I guess to keep the flies from biting their undersides, and stick their head under and bite of big chunks of submerged grasses and eat them. I have seen the bucks get the grass tangled in their velvet covered antlers. Until I moved here I had never seen or heard of deer doing this.
Once, when driving through the village of Old Forge in the Adirondacks, my son and I saw a doe go up to someone's front steps and put her head inside a pumpkin to get a bite. Couldn't get the camera out quick enough to capture it.
Seeing turkeys around here is not unusual, spring and summer I see 3-4 hens with their poults bugging in the fields. The toms stick together until mating season and then there some pretty sights as they swell up and strut around. We have a cedar brake of about eight acres, that a lot of wildlife hide in.
What was unusual about seeing the turkeys was that it was lousy weather, sleet and freezing rain when I saw them. There weren't even any snowbirds or squirrels about.
The little person in the picture is our 18 month old grandson. Don't worry, easy mistake to make not seeing him grow. He has the prettiest curly hair, but he is 110% boy. He never crawled like other little ones, he kind of hitched along like a sidewinder on his butt and one crooked under him until he could stand up and started to walk. The only time he is still is when he is sleeping. And he is spoiled to a fault! We keep him 4 days a week so his parents can work. I hope you are able to see your grand daughter soon. I so look forward to visits from our girls and the grands. I would not want to be able to visit. Wife's mother is in in assisted living because of brittle bones in her spine, and if we want to visit we must walk around the building and talk through the window screen. No Bueno for sure.
Did you know the Przewalski or wild Mongolian horse is the rarest breed on earth and they have two extra chromosomes? They were extinct in the wild at one point but were reintroduced from a zoo in Holland and seem to be set to make a comeback. They bark like a zebra instead of neighing like a domestic horse. I read somewhere a hybrid Przewalski horse and a domestic horse cross is not sterile like a mule or many other hybrids. They are a light colored brown or dun horse and a big one might weigh 750 lbs. I think there were about 160 or so in the wild when we visited Mongolia.
On July 15 & 16, 2006 while on a private tour through Central and Northern Mongolia after my job down in the Gobi Desert ended, my wife and I stopped to visit the Khustain Nuruu National park which is home to the wild Mongolia Horses. We had seen a few the afternoon of the 15th but were touring the park on our way out and found a pretty large herd in a valley with a small flowing stream. I put Becky, my free lance photographer wife out and told her to hide and set up behind a nearby bush. Shagai, our driver, and Boildick, our guide and I drove past the horses and got out and got on line each about 40 yards apart. We slowly walked toward the horses humming a whistling so we did not startle the horses. This caused the horses to slowly ease closer to Becky. She was frantically taking pictures especially of the mares with young foals. They had eased up with 20-30 feet of Becky so we stopped and watched. All was well till another van loaded with tourists topped the hill. They saw Becky down below with the horses all around and I guess they assumed they were tame enough for everyone to get that close so they started walking towards them. Before they got a couple hundred yards away the horses saw and heard them and ran away over the hilltop half a mile away. I don't know if they were jerks or just ignorant. Anyway Becky got some really beautiful pictures of the wild Mongolian horses before they arrived.
wild horses of khustain nuruu national park in mongolia - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Khustain+Nuruu+National+park&docid=608001893349720810&mid=C5C3A71387C31C36A345C5C3A71387C31C36A345&view=detail&FORM=VIRE)
Did you know a male swan is called a Cob, a female is called a Pen and the young ones are called cygnets (signets)? Swans can be very protective and aggressive especially around their young.
We had stopped beside a lake in southern Norway when I was working a project there at Kristiansand in 2008 and Becky was taking pictures of a Pen and 5-6 cygnets swimming in the water about 40-50 yards away. The Cob was on the opposite side of the lake several hundred yards away and he spotted us. He immediately folded his wings back in a sort of half-cocked position and swam straight toward us at "ramming speed". I don't know why he did not just fly. When he got to the shore near us he came right up on land after us and we ran and got back in our vehicle.
Canada geese will also defend their nests quite vigorously around here in WV in the Spring but I've never seen one as aggressive as that Norwegian Cob.
We have a lot non migratory Canada Geese around here, they are very messy on the golf courses and parks, in the cities. A flock has taken up at a farm pond on the east side of me. They will not fare well if they come to my pond.
OSF,
We have the C Geese here too year round. They are neat to watch on the river but they get on the football field and make a big mess. Our HS is located right beside the river so they don't have far to travel. An old man was our local junk dealer and lived along the river in town. He got all the left over produce and bread from our local grocery store and threw it out on the river bank behind his house to feed the geese and ducks for many years. He invited my son and his friends to come fish there and they spent many nights fishing for there as teens. One afternoon they set up a leaning box, a stick and a string as a trap and baited it and caught a duck and were fixing to kill and cook it. All was going well till they invited Mr. Cox to come eat with them and he told them "You boys better turn my duck loose or I'm gonna skin your heads." and they released the duck unharmed. They were probably going to burn an old tire or such for their campfire to cook him. Mr. Cox told that tale many times and really got a kick out of it.
The super aggressive behavior of Mute Swans ( the white ones with an orange bill that often hold their neck in an S curve position) is why some state wildlife agencies have proposed getting rid of them. They are old world birds, not native here. A few years ago the New York State Dept. of Environmental Conservation proposed a lethal control program as they displace native waterfowl. There was such an upswell of protests that the plan was dropped. People in canoes and kayaks have been attacked by Mute Swans and drowned. While in the army in Germany I went through the Nueswanstein Castle, the one that Disney portrays in their films. In the king's bedroom is a swan made of silver at the sink that had it so water flowed out of its' mouth.
As I remember those we saw in Norway were white but I was thinking they made a noise of some sort so I don't know if they are same as a mute swan or not.
I did a little search about swans. Apparantly, Mute Swans are not totally mute. I can't say for sure what WV saw in Norway, but the behavior of the swans suggest mutes, which are notoriously protective of their nest and young.
Speaking of mute birds, vultures have no vocal organs and can only hiss, cough, huff, and so forth.
Their nesting areas are revoltingly stinky places, usually under rock overhangs, on cliffs, or in small caves. The white (where not vomit stained) chicks hiss violently when approached, but I've only seen adults engage in defensive regurgitation.
I've never seen a vultures nest here in the USA. I saw lots in Africa but never got too close to them. I did see a fried buzzard last year who lit on a power line about a mile from my home and crossed the electric wires. he was still smoking when I came by but he won't do that again. :D
Dad had a friend who found two large eggs in central Fla and I think he thought they were turkeys and hatched them. Turned out to be a pair of buzzards. He raised them anyway and they would come and go. He'd leave dry dog food on the back porch for them and it was a hoot to see them hopping around the back porch eating dog food.
They are a nuisance at the landing down on Bluestone Lake where I fish 8.5 miles from here. People throw old carp and other dead fish and minnows and such out at the landing and they eat them. There will usually be dozens hanging around and they land on people's cars and scratch them up and crap all over them.
Did you know bees in Africa are caught using homemade baskets and boxes? One of the neatest bee baskets I ever saw was in Cameroon in February 2008 when we returned on vacation. They were made from a raffia palm frond and were about 3' long and about 1' in diameter. The palm frond was stripped and split down to about 6" from the base which was left as a handle. The split sections were spread for ribs and more sections were inserted to make it bigger. Then thin strips of raffia or bamboo were tightly woven to make the sides. When finished they were shaped like a horn-of-plenty basket. The end plug was made by wrapping half inch wide strips of raffia palm or bamboo into a concentric circle leaving about a 1" hole at the center for an entrance hole. When finished the round mat was tied tight and coated with mud or fresh cow manure, inserted in the end of the basket and tied in place. The bees would seal it tighter once they moved in. This formed container that had about 10 gallons of storage capacity with a small entrance that could be easily defended, was light weight and was hung about 10'-20' high in local trees and when nearby bees expanded beyond their capacity they would split and swarm and take up residency in these bee baskets.
In Ethiopia I asked my driver why people did not steal the bees and he said if a bee basket was stolen the owner would collect some of the sand from the thief's footprints and take them to the local witch doctor and he would put a curse on it and a mamba would crawl into the thief's hut and bite him and anyone else who eaten the honey. Mamba's are particularly ill-tempered and bite multiple times and one crawling into a hut after mice or rats and stepped or rolled on to by a sleeping resident could result in the mamba biting everyone in the hut.
A missionary in Zambia set up an operation providing free bee hives made from scrap wood from his WM mill and woodworking operation and he collects and pays the local residents for the honey and it has become (beecome?) a big operation. I read about it in the WM magazines. Here is a video of it.
Customer Stories | Wood-Mizer USA (https://woodmizer.com/us/Customer-Stories/ArtMID/5109/ArticleID/155/bee-sweet-honey)
There are 2 species of vulture in the Eastern US, Turkey Vultures and Black Vultures. The Black Vultures generally don't range as far north as TVs. The BVs are noted for being destructive by trashing vinyl roofs on cars and ripping up roofing material on buildings. This brings to mind, when at a drive through game park in Quebec years age they had an area with baboons. As soon as a vehicle entered that area the baboons climbed on and rode to the exit where workers chased them off. A tour bus was in front of us and the baboons got onto the bus and proceeded to rip off every marker light, even pulling the socket and wires out. Must have been an expensive repair.
Baboons are notorious for getting into stuff and can be very dangerous and they are powerful animals. The worst is where people feed them and get them used to being around people. I have seen them in Saudi and various places in Africa. They are very alert and young impalas hang out with them for protection. They always have a guard or two watching. Where they are damaging crops and such and people try to shoot them they first have to kill or sneak past the sentry. I saw 2 big males in Saudi jump off a rock wall into the back of a moving P/U and get in a fight. The same troop had reached in an open car window and dislocated a child's shoulder trying to get food or such.
We were camping along the river that is the border between Namibia and Angola. The office had a sign saying "Don't feed the monkeys - they already eat better than the staff." The owner would walk around shooting them with a paintball gun and they would scream and warn each other as soon as they saw him walking around. The day we left we had cooked breakfast and had one piece of sausage and one piece of French toast and we were all looking at it wanting it but too polite to take it and a Vervet monkey jumped off a nearby tree and stole them both resolving the issue.
Did you know horses in Mongolia typically will be seen side by side in pairs and standing head to tail? This means when one horse swishes his tail he is knocking the flies off the other horses face at the same time.
I worked a project in the Gobi Desert in 2006 at a gold and copper mine project (Oyu Tolgoi) and at the time I was told there was something like about 2.5 million people and over 8 million horses. When you'd drive into a town or village it looked like an Old West scene with buildings made from small poles and lots of Gers (Yurts) the round tents common there. In front of every dwelling you would see a hitching post to tie your horse while you were inside.
WV your posts are hard to beat. Reminds me of a few years back I was driving past a pasture and it was raining. In the pasture was a very big draft horse standing there with a goat taking shelter under the horse. No camera, of course.
Did you know that a giraffe has a very difficult time drinking water? First they have to spread their front legs very wide just to be able to bend his neck down to reach the water and then when he does his lips do not seal and water pours out from between his lips when he lifts his head to swallow.
Here is my journal entry of 27 June 2010 when we were touring southern Africa on a private tour and stopped over to visit Etosha Game Park in Namibia. We were watching a water hole on the park:
Several large giraffe come and drink. They have to spread their front legs very wide to be able to reach the water. When they finish drinking and lift their head a quart or so of water always runs out of their mouth as they can't swallow it all and I gather their lips don't seal it in. One cow is evidently coming into season as the bull follows her closely and tastes her urine to see if she is in heat.
I knew that they had to lower their head to extremes, but I didn't know about the lack of closing of the lips or the inability to swallow until closer to the upright position. I'm learning new things from this thread quite often.
And to think, several people already say that I'm the smartest person that they know. What THEY don't know is, this all just means that I need to find smarter people to hang around 🤷
Taco,
Thanks. The odd and really awkward thing was how really wide he had to spread his front legs to reach his head down to the water. I don't know how much he actually swallowed while he had his head down and I guess it is a bit of a chore to pull enough of a vacuum to suck it up that far but when he raised his head the water did spill out. The guide knew it would happen and told us to watch so we saw it and my wife got a picture of it.
BTW - did you know they have a really big head? I think the head of a big bull giraffe is nearly 3' long? Also our guide said a young cow giraffe is very good eating and provides a lot of meat. I guess they mostly make biltong or jerky out of it.
No offense since I don't even know you but if people are saying you are the smartest person they know, I agree you need to start hanging out with a better group of people. :D
Yes, yes I think I will!
Does that mean you have changed your mind about coming to visit? :D :D :D
Like these guys??
Randy Travis - Better Class Of Losers (Official Music Video) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuL8g2Szse0)
Did you know that White Rhinos are grazers and typically live on the plains and savannahs of Africa while the Black Rhinos are browsers and live in the brushy areas of Africa resulting in them being much harder to find?
Did you know the White rhino is not white but got his name from the old Dutch settlers pronunciation of the word "wide" for his wide mouth?
Did you know rhinos are severely threatened for the value of their horn (Actually a Keratin substance like hair rather than true horn) which is sold to Asians to make aphrodisiacs and to wealthy Arabs who want to make traditional rhino horn handled daggers?
Did you know poachers will typically give a local tribesman an AK-47 and 30-40 rounds of Ammo to go kill rhinos for them and the value for such a horn may represent enough for them to buy a farm and build a home on it? To put that in perspective what would it cost you to buy 100 acres or so of good farmland and build a contemporary home on it?
In December 2011, my wife, daughter and I visited Kruger Game Park in South Africa for about a week and stayed in a different camp/lodge every night to see the different areas. At every campground they typically had a map of the park set up as a game sighting board with little colored magnets to indicate where tourists had seen various big or unusual animals. They quickly learned to remove the symbols for rhinos because the poachers were using that info to help them go slaughter them. Rhinos and leopards are the two hardest members of the big five (Elephant, Rhino, Cape Buffalo, Lion & Leopard) to actually find and watch.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on February 25, 2021, 10:23:38 PM
Does that mean you have changed your mind about coming to visit? :D :D :D
No. Unequivocally NO!
I still want to meet up with everyone that is there. I believe that it will be great fun.
BUT, back to the current fun and learning 🥳
Did you know a baby marsupial in Australia is called a Joey? I understand this is from an Aboriginal word meaning something like young one or small one or such.
I guess in North America a baby Marsupial is called a possum (since that is the only marsupial we have ::)).
Did you know the Ger, sometimes called a yurt over here, in Mongolia is designed to be disassembled, transported and reassembled on a new site as needed, basically when the forage has been depleted or weather changes?
(This may get a little wordy so be warned!)
The basic components of a Ger include:
Panels - these look much like the wood lattice you buy at a building supply and are the walls
A door unit - a wooden door on a frame transported as a unit.
Center Support poles - Normally 2 tall (12-14 ft) T shaped poles with a cross arm about 3' long
A "Wagon Wheel" - Not correct name but what it looks like. It holds one end of the "rafter poles"
Rafter poles - slender poles like TeePee poles that run from the Wagon Wheel to the Panels.
Felt - usually about 3/4" thick and insulates the sides and roof. Cut to fit the shape of the ger.
Canvas - Used to cover the sides and roof and helps shed the rain and snow
Stove and stove pipe - a small, round sheet metal stove about half the size of a 55 gallon drum and stove pipe to vent out the roof
Rawhide strings used throughout to tie everything together
To start construction the door unit is placed facing South and temporarily propped up. (It is bad juju to face the tent in the wrong direction and I nearly started a strike/riot one time setting up several for lunch tents at the mine site because I had the door facing North). I suspect the South facing direction is based on prevailing wind directions and likely good reasoning.
Next stand up the panels and tie them to the door frame and each other with rawhide strings. Ger sizes are referred to by the number of panels used and a 5 panel ger was about the smallest I ever saw, an 8 panel ger was larger and anything larger was rare and for ceremonial use and such. Panels are made from lattice strips cut traditionally with a draw knife but likely sawed/milled now. Traditionally where the strips cross a hole is made with a awl and they are joined with rawhide using a special knot so the tighter you pull the stronger the knot gets. The panels are adjusted to make a circle. A panel is typically about 4.5' high and 9' long when opened. When not in used you push from both ends and the panel folds up like an accordion into a neat round bundle for transport about 12" in diameter and 5' long.
Next the 2 T-shaped poles are stood up and the "wagon wheel" is laid flat and tied to both of them with more rawhide strings. The wagon wheel has holes for the spokes which in this case are the rafter poles. The number of holes/rafter poles is standard and magical based on long standing superstition. I want to think it is 79 or 81 or such but I honestly don't remember. The center support poles were often carved with a horse head design on them.
Now we are ready for the rafters. The rafter length is based on the final size of the ger planned. One end of the pole is placed in the spoke hole of the "wagon wheel" and the other is placed in the top valley of the X on the panel and lashed in place. More rafters are placed at right angles and tied and the panels are moved around slightly to make the ger into a perfect circle. After 3-4 rafters are placed the hole framework is temporarily self-supporting. As more rafters are added the structure becomes increasingly stronger and more stable. When all the framework is in place and lashed together the structure is very strong!
When the framework is complete the felt is lashed to the sides then over the roof. Traditionally the felt was made from wool and hair saved from the sheep, horse, yaks and camels. I don't know how they wove it together. One pie shaped panel in the roof felt now has a hole for the stovepipe and fire retardant material around the stovepipe opening. Finally the cut to shape canvas is fitted over the top and sides. During the colder months sand and dirt are piled on the bottom of the sides to seal out the cold weather. In the short summer months the sides are raised and tied up during the day to allow ventilation then lowered at night. The sheet metal stove is put into place at the center of the ger and the stove pipe is fitted to run out the roof. Traditionally dry horse, camel and yak dung were mostly burned but wood and coal is burned if available. Most of the trees I saw in Mongolia looked similar to a white pine and except up north near the Siberian border where they were larger, they were rarely much over 12" in diameter. In some of the valleys small birch trees grew. These were the only hardwoods I saw but in Ulaan Bataar (Capitial city of Mongolia) I saw sweetgum leaves and read where it was used in making some medicines so there must have been some there somewhere. A rabbit was used as a symbol for a doctor or pharmacist on some drawings.
I don't remember any staking of the ger to hold it down but I may have overlooked that step as there are very strong winds in the area. The ger would have been erected in sheltered valleys near water if possible and the weight of the felt and sand on the bottom edges must have been sufficient to keep it in place.
In our mining camp we had prefabbed wooden floor sections that fit together to make a circle. Traditionally rugs would have been placed on the ground or the bare soil would be left exposed. In our new camp under construction when I left we were building concrete floor pads with in-floor hot water heating we would pipe through them. We were building them in pods of 4 with a bathroom connecting all four which was a huge improvement over getting out and walking to a bathroom 100+ yards away in sub-zero weather. Constipation and urine filled water bottles thrown over the walls were a constant health problem. Also dehydration was a big issue as people were very reluctant to drink enough water especially at night. All the urinals in the bathrooms had color coded urine descriptions reminding the workers to drink more water.
Traditionally when broken down a ger could be lashed on to the back of camels or yaks or pulled behind them or horses on a 2 wheeled cart. Now they are often hauled in a truck.
A ger was considered a living family member. Our safety team nearly started a riot when they were going to set one up and burn it to identify how much response time they had if one caught fire. I had the same response when I was going to cut holes in the sides for openings for the serving and dining gers I set up. We finally just built multiple gers and built wooden weather fences connecting them to avoid the strong dusty winds in the area at lunch. The workers allowed me to face 2 dining gers east and west but not north.
Did you know that most of Mongolia is home to a little rodent that looks about like our Prairie dog? We saw hundreds of them driving around the grasslands of central Mongolia on our vacation there in July 2006. They are about the size of a Fairydiddle (Pine squirrel) and upon further research I discovered they are actually a Gerbil.
These Gerbils store food in underground "larders" for the long winters. A common food supply is a grass bulb that looks very much like a chufa. The local migrant Mongolian herders look for these larders and when they find them they raid them taking all the seeds/bulbs they find. This is a traditional food source for them. I understand these larders may contain 10-12 gallons or more of stored seeds/bulbs.
On 11 July (Naadam - Mongolia's National Day) 2006 we visited a local Mongolian family and as we arrived the women were preparing a special treat using a bunch of seeds/bulbs they had found in a Gerbil's larder. I don't know if they roasted them first or not but I remember seeing them grind them with a mortar and pestle. They took the top off their little sheet metal stove and put a round bottomed pan sort of like a big wok directly over the flames, added a big gob (maybe a pint) of yellow Yak butter, an equal amount of sugar then they added the ground gerbil food and cooked it till it was done. The finished product was very good and tasted very much like oatmeal no-bake cookies.
I sort of felt guilty for the gerbil who had a long hard winter ahead of him.
Red Squirrels (Pine Squirrels) put up large caches of food for later use, too. Doing wildlife control, at one house the R Sq had put a garbage bag full of Staghorn Sumac seed clusters up in the false ceiling of the garage. At another home they had filled several interior wall voids to the top with Black Walnuts. Another had the soffits of a car port stocked with Black Walnuts, and the R SQ were still feeding on them in June. In the winter,especially, R Sq go into underground dens like under tree root wads where it is a lot warmer than up in tree nests or cavities. They will also tunnel under the snow to avoid predators and extreme cold air. Like many animals, when they have lots of food they can be hard to trap in a baited trap. They will prey on bird eggs and nestlings. I try to keep a lid on them around my home. I've learned a couple of ways to trap them without bait.
I rescued a chipmunk from our old cat and he escaped and stayed in the house undetected for months. One day he came out of the portable dishwasher and my son and wife spotted him as he ran to the dog food dish and stuffed his cheeks full of dry dogfood and my son grabbed him before he could get back inside the DW. He said he had gotten huge eating the dogfood and it slowed him down trying to squeeze into the DW back. My son took the back off the dishwasher and found about 25 lbs of dry dog food stored back there. All this time we had from 1-3 dogs and 1-3 cats in the house and nobody ever knew he was there.
That's called living large.
hehehe
Did you know one of the basic principals of scuba diving is neutral buoyancy? This allows the diver to remain at a specific depth without having to struggle all the time to stay down or to keep from sinking too deep. The basic components used for this is a weight belt to make you sink and an air filled vest called a buoyancy compensator or BC to make you float. You add air to your BC by pushing a button on a hose which adds air from the tank till the 2 balance each other. Think of a fishing float and a lead weight on a string. When perfectly balanced the float will neither float to the surface or sink to the bottom.
Compounding the issue is the fact the air in your BC is compressed by the water pressure the deeper you go making it less buoyant and making you want to sink faster - so you have to add more air as you go down. The air in your BC expands as you rise making it larger and making you float to the surface faster so you have to dump air using another little valve on a hose to the BC as you ascend to keep from rising too fast and before your body can adjust to the pressure changes. The major safety rule in Scuba is Breathe Constantly to keep from blowing up your lungs or getting the bends from rising before the air in your joints works its way out. Another safety rule is to stop at about 15' depth for 3 minutes and breathe normally to allow the gases in your body to adjust.
Since you never truly achieve permanent neutral buoyancy when you reach the depth you want to stay you use your fins and swim up or down slightly while observing the coral and sea life in the area. Also since your lungs are an air bladder an experienced diver learns to inhale a little deeper if he wants to rise a little or exhale a little deeper if he wants to descend a bit.
BTW - Did you know Scuba is an Acronym for Self Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus?
Howard, I learned ALL of that stuff in college when I took scuba for an "elective" that we were FORCED to take for a phys-ed course . It was either that or tennis. Scuba sounds MUCH more fun, and I think 🤔 I made the right choice! 🤗
Did you know that when you plan to cook live shellfish such as crabs, lobsters or crawfish you need to have the water boiling before you add the shellfish to the cookpot?
While I was stationed at Parris Island in my USMC days we met several friends from church at a retreat our pastor owned on an inlet near Beaufort SC. The wives got out and caught a bunch of blue crabs in a trap and by using the old chicken neck on a string technique. They decided to cook the crabs so the pastor's wife got a big pot with a lid, filled it with water, added salt and seasoning and put the crabs in then put the pot on the stove and turned on the burner. A few minutes later we began to hear a scritching and scratching sound so Darlene went over and lifted the lid only to find the top was ringed with the crabs trying to get out. I will always remember her beating those crabs back with a big wooden spoon for several minutes till the water began to boil. We should have realized ahead of time this would happen.
Don't forget the Old Bay seasoning Howard!
It was already in there but not enough incentive to make the crabs want to hang around when the temps started rising.
My brother was working near Morgan City LA and said they would have shrimp and crawfish boils and when they ran out of shrimp or crawfish they threw hot dogs in the seasoned water mix and the crowd would eat them before they finished off the shrimp or crawfish.
On diving:
Did you know that the first mass produced individual diving apparatus was made in France in the early thirties? One of the things driving the development of autonomous diving equipment was the race to explore underwater caves or to breach sumped sections of caves. Standard Equipment used in open water diving had been used in such settings with some success, and lots more failure. The much improved Aqualung, developed in the forties by Jacques Cousteau and others, was soon put to work in caves.
Cave diving developed at different rates all over the world, with many examples of ingenious or idiotic homemade equipment. Even now it remains one of the most dangerous sporting endeavors.
But the most audacious such exploration, maybe, was that of Norbert Casteret in the Grotte de Montespan. In 1922 he passed a flooded section of cave by free diving in total darkness. Finding air on the other side, he returned prepared, with matches and candle sealed up in a swimming cap. Passing the sump again, he lit his candle and explored, finding a second, longer sump. He dove this one too finding more air-filled cave. Going onward involved crawling in a heavily dripping passage that put his candle out repeatedly. Being separated as he was from the surface by two sections of water-filled cave, and with no gear of any substance, the fact that he kept exploring further is remarkable.
It is a strange feeling to dive under the water and come up in a place that has never before been seen. I have had this experience only once, largely because I am not too comfortable in the water.
Wil.K,
I am no fan of cave diving. I prefer to have open sky above me that I can at least attempt to reach if things go south. At the end of a night dive in Jeddah Saudi Arabia in the Red Sea in the early 90's right at the exit point I spotted and shot a nice snapper with my compressed air spear pistol with a 12" spear under a large section of riprap - a broken concrete slab. He ran to the end of the 12' line and got fouled. Instead of tying off the gun and trying to reach him from the other side I crawled in there after him. My gauges got hung in a crack in the coral and I was out of air so my dive partner was at the edge of the concrete and I gave him the share air signal. He pulled off his octopus and methodically uncoiled it while I was sitting there turning blue thinking "This is a significant inconvenience" (Funny what lack of O2 will do to your brain that way). He passed me his spare regulator and I started breathing and I shed my vest to try to untangle it and the quick release on my weight belt got hung on a piece of old fishing line and it released and fell to the bottom of the coral. This caused me to float to the top till I bumped the underside of the concrete slab. I got my tank and vest freed and pulled it out from under the concrete into the open sea but then without my weight belt and the partially inflated vest and empty air tank I started to rise uncontrollably and I lost the spare regulator off my buddies tank and was surface bound. It was about 40' to the surface so I breathed out all the way up to keep the air in my lungs from rupturing them as it more than doubled in that distance. This is standard "Uncontrolled Buoyant Ascent Training" in PADI scuba classes and the only time I ever had to use it. I can certify that it works. I came back the next day with a spare weight belt and went back down and retrieved the weight belt and spear. The fish had long been eaten by crabs and other fish.
Did you know there are two living genus of egg-laying mammals alive today? They are the Duck billed platypus in Australia and several different species of Spiny Anteater in New Guinea.
These animal lay eggs and hatch their young then nurse them like all other mammals do.
I think the Duck-billed Platypus has some nasty claws that may be venomous, too.
If you castrate a buck he will grow antlers that will stay in velvet and never harden or shed. Administer some testosterones and they will harden and shed . "Rinse and repeat".
I'm hitting a dry spell so I will add some primitive culture here.
Did you know the Mursi Tribe in Ethiopia are one of the tribes where the women wear lip plates to make themselves more "attractive."? The bigger the lip plate, the more attractive they feel they are.
The women start at around puberty and slice through their bottom lip and poke a peeled wooden peg in the hole to keep it open and to help stretch the hole. Over the next months and years they widen the cut and put in a bigger peg each time. When the hole is big enough they put a hardened clay plate in there shaped like a pulley with a groove all the way around it. The dangling lip is slipped into the groove of the clay plate/pulley to hold the plate in place. The smallest plate I saw was a little over 2" in diameter and the largest was approximately 6". It was common to see Mursi women who were not wearing their lip plates and the "loop" formed by the dangling lip section would hang down on or even below their chins. Is some cases evidently they had stretched their lip too far and the round section in front had broken and you would see them walking around looking like they had 2 pieces of 1/2" diameter rope 4-5 inches long hanging from the corners of their mouth. (I don't know if any attempt to surgically repair these breaks has ever been made.)
On Christmas Day 2010 my wife, daughter and I visited Mago National Park in southern Ethiopia to so see a tribe of Mursi tribesmen living there at the time. When we got to the entrance of the park they assigned us an armed "scout" to ride with and accompany us the whole time we were there. Evidently the Mursi people can be a little "temperamental" at times. Our SUV was packed full with our driver, wife, me , daughter, and local guide so we made space in the cargo area and he sat on a water cooler as a stool of sorts. I noticed he kept rubbing his left arm and scratching a freshly healed hole about 6" below his shoulder. I asked him about it and our local guide translated that the day before he had visited the same tribe we were going to see. Evidently they had been drinking heavily and one man got into an argument with the scout and shot him with an AK47. Evidently the other men in the tribe came over, disarmed and talked to the man and discussed how much trouble he was in for shooting a government/park employee. I guess this sobered the man up somewhat so he negotiated a settlement on the spot that was satisfactory to both parties - he gave the scout his 12 y/o daughter to be his wife. I guess it makes sense a young man would not want to put his FIL in prison or have him executed so that seemed like a pretty bright move to me. Actually they may have made a nice couple and are probably living happily to this day with 7-8 children running around.
When we got to the camp the Mursi people were going about their normal daily tasks. Most of the men from boys about 10-12 years and older were carrying weapons. The tribe seemed angry that there had not been more tourist by to see them that day. Evidently the tourists come and take pictures and pay tips which seems to be their main livelihood in this region. Their normal livelihood seems to be as cattle herders and cattle thieves raiding other tribes in the area. The men had already started drinking heavily and were pretty surly. The Mursi people we saw, men women and children, were naked except for a skin or cloth skirt on most of the women. Many had on or were wrapped in a thin brown, wool blanket as the morning was still pretty cool. We stayed a few minutes and took a few pictures and learned a little bit about their culture and left.
I have visited many primitive tribes in Africa and South America and I can only say this group did not rate real highly as the most enjoyable. They were mostly dusty, angry drunks with chips on their shoulders and with guns.
Did you know women (Girls?) in the Koma (Koo Mah) tribe in the Atlantika Mountains on both sides of the border with Cameroon and Nigeria have the two upper front teeth pulled when they get engaged/married?
The Koma people were first contacted by outsiders around 1986. The women wear only a belt of red beads and stuffed fresh green leaves in the front and back for clothes. One explanation I was given for pulling the front teeth was to make them less beautiful so Muslim raiders in surrounding areas would not steal them. I saw young girls 12-13 years old who were married or engaged and missing their front teeth. We met one lady who was 30 years old and had 15 children and was already a grandmother.
We trekked in and camped and visited with them July 18, 2003 then we went back for a longer stay starting on February 22, 2008. Gifts we packed in to pay for our stay included boxes of matches, local black tobacco that both men and women smoke in pipes, and soap which came in sticks about 1"X1" X 2' and would be cut to length. The women carried their pipes stuck in their bead belt with the stem resting dangerously close to the crack of their butt from my observations.
HA HA!!
Crack pipe!!
Did you know that predatory birds are often the target of their prey? Owls, Hawks and even eagles will often be chased and attacked by crows and blue jays. Sometimes they sit on nearby limbs and yell to everything in the area that there is danger in the area. If the larger bird is flying they will give chase and even dive bomb the larger bird knocking feathers loose. I assume the smaller birds must be much faster and more agile and the bigger bird cannot catch and defend himself from them and can only fly away. Where I grew up in N. Fla it was very common to see a small mockingbird chasing crows completely out of sight. I don't really know how far they will chase one. In N. Ala one time my FIL and observed the sky filled with screaming crows. There were hundreds if not over 1,000 making a large circle over 100 yards in diameter and literally blackened the sky. Finally right in the middle we spotted a red-tailed hawk. The entourage drifted out of sight so I don't know if the hawk survived or not. I see no way a single hawk could have survived that many crows attacking. I know most were just making mock charges at the crow but a large mammal could not have survived a serious, concerted attack by that many crows.
I have heard crows on our local lake calling and would get to the site to find a bald eagle eating a dead fish on the river bank. I never saw the crows actually attack but assume they do at times.
I have mentioned how aggressive my Eastern bluebirds in my front yard. They attack everything that gets near their nest box including my horse, me, passing deer, fox squirrels, woodpeckers and every species of songbird that fly or land too close to their nest box.
See it here often that is a crow harassing a red tailed hawk, the hawk is kind of different as it is mostly white with a gray head, it shows up in the early winter for the last 6 years.<br
>(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/_DSC3788.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1573143368)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/DSC_0102.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1454030459)
Hilltop,
Thanks for the photos. That is a good example of what happens. The first crow to see the hawk and starts swooping and calling and others in the area hear and see him and they come join in until you can have a very large, even huge crowd swooping and calling and sometimes actually attacking. I guess birds get a mob mentality just like people do sometimes.
Yup, often only 3 to 6 crows here when I see them, I have seen seagulls going after bald eagles too.
I watched a flock of seagulls gang up and kill another seagull that couldn't fly.
Took a while but there was like 100 gulls..
JJ
I don't think that many of the birds that are mobbed or hazed by other birds get seriously injured. Around here when you hear crows making a ruckus often means that there is a Red-tailed Hawk or Great Horned Owl, your chance to see the raptor. Many birds mob predatory birds, especially when they have a nest or recently fledged young. I have boxes by my house for Screech-owls and I know when one is in a box when Chickadees, Nuthatches, Blue Jays, bluebirds or other little birds are making a fuss by a box. The chickadees will land right at the entrance hole of the owl box, peer in and scold the owl. Eastern Kingbirds are especially bold about driving bigger birds away from their nest or young, ditto for mockingbirds.
Did you know various animals will make warning or notification type calls when other animals are in the area? These other animals do not have to be predators or a threat. Sometimes they seem to be playing a joke on the other animals.
A common example is a squirrel will often start chattering and making a whining call when a deer is in the area. Most deer hunters know this and take note and stay on the alert when they hear a squirrel start whining. Sometimes it is a deer coming, sometimes turkeys or other animals. Sometimes it is another hunter. One time I was in a deer stand and heard a very loud and insistent whining by a nearby squirrel so I got ready expecting a big buck to come out. Finally I could see the squirrel but not the deer. At long last it came into sight only it was a possum with insomnia who had woken up in the middle of the afternoon.
I seldom hunt my squirrels any more because they are more valuable as a deer warning system for me. You can often determine with very close accuracy the location of a deer in our WV woods by listening to squirrels and chipmunks. As one walks a squirrel or chipmunk will call as long as he is nearby. When he feeds out of their area the next squirrel or chipmunk will start calling so you cab tell if he is coming closer or getting further away. I have been able to track deer sometimes for half a mile just listening to the squirrels and chipmunks.
I saw a special one time about prairie dogs and their various call. One specific call meant there was a rattlesnake nearby. I think they had other calls for other predators.
I remember bow hunting one time in the Fall and there were chipmunks and birds and such all over making normal calls to each other. Suddenly everything got dead silent and this was odd enough I noticed the silence. A couple of minutes later a beautiful red fox with white throat and tail tip walking out and jumped up on an old clayroot about 35 yards away and looked and smelled the air. Once he left the noises got back to normal.
THAT was a very cool read!!!!
Did you know the pygmies in Central African Republic (CAR) and Cameroon and such hunt with nets? They strip the bark off a particular local vine and twist it to make cord. They take the cord and make nets about 30" tall and 40 yards or so long. At the top and bottom of each end they weave or tie on a forked stick with the fork pointed back (Like we used to string fish on). When hunting they go into the jungle and find a particularly dense "island" of brush and the "huntmaster" directs half the team to go one way, the other half the opposite by using hand and arm signals. This surround is made very quickly and quietly. They hang the first net on a small tree or shrub using the forked sticks then they unroll the net till they reach the end then they hook it to the next net using the forked sticks on both ends. They complete the circle on the back side then they go back and improve the surround by making sure the nets are on the ground everywhere. Once they are satisfied they position "standers" at regular intervals around the pen armed with machetes and clubs and 1-2 hunters go into the center of the pen and beat the bushes and yell and chase any game hiding there out into the net and the nearest stander rushes over and kills it. The preferred game is a bush pig but the most common game killed are dik-diks (the smallest African antelopes), anteaters and porcupines. Men and women participate in the hunt and at the end of the hunt the kill is divided between them all.
My wife and I went hunting with the pygmies in CAR on June 24, 2003. You have never lived till you have ridden with 8 near naked pygmies in the cargo area of an SUV. This was evidently the first time they had ever been in a "Moto" and they were signing and whooping the whole way.
We got to the spot and walked half a mile or so into the jungle along game trails till we reached a likely spot and they made their surround. They beat the bushes but nothing came out. We got to see the technique which was all I cared about.
At the end of the hunt we paid/tipped the pygmies for taking us with them then took them home. We paid them one kg (2.2 lbs) of salt which they immediately divided on 8 large green leaves they picked and rolled around the salt, each got a book of matches and we gave them wooden pencils, mechanical sharpener and plastic whistles we had brought for the kids but realize they would be useful to the hunters.
I also bought 2 of the nets and brought them home for a souvenir.
I was going to try drawing a picture for todays post but it is late, I'm tired and have another early start and probably a long day so you will have to read and use your imagination to understand what i am describing.
Did you know old time Norwegians, and possibly others designed the footers on their buildings to prevent access by rodents? While living and working in Norway our Noggie daughter Ruth (Former HS exchange student who lived with us for a school year and has been back on many visits since and vice versa) took us around her home area and showed us some old buildings with design features to keep mice and rats out. They used a large rot resistant wood as footers. I don't remember if they set them on a rock or directly on the ground. Envision a log about 18"-20" in diameter and maybe 30" tall. Imagine having such a footer log then sawing a circle about a foot below the top to a depth of 5-6 inches then using a hatchet or hand adze to shape the area below the circle cut to make half of an hourglass shape so it a mouse climbing from the ground up would reach the narrow spot on the footer only to find a flat, squared off roof over his head that he could not easily pass.
Some of those old Noggies had their stuff in one bag! This simple design has kept those old buildings free of pests for hundreds of years. (I understand some of those Noggies were even smart enough to come to the USA, although some stayed in New York instead of coming further south.)
I'd like some pictures when you can, because that sounds VERY interesting. Maybe, just maybe, something like that could be incorporated into use today.
Doing wildlife control, I learned that codes call for a block wall that comes up just a few inches above grade for the house to sit on. This to reduce heat loss from the basement. Leaf litter builds up to the siding and sill plate, landscapers throw mulch against the wall AND in the winter the ground freezes. It warms up and rains and the ground is still frozen. This all adds up to wetting the siding, sill plate and bottom of the studs, which rot out. The mice, rats, chipmunks, red squirrels then proceed to chew and claw their way into the wall and house. This is very serious, structural damage and difficult and expensive to repair. I have seen it on some very expensive homes. I told many of them that if they don't get anything else out of me looking at their problem, that if I convince them to read the riot act to the landscaper and pull all that organic matter away from the wall, then they got their monies worth. And understand that that mulch and tree debris contains every microbe and fungi known to destroy wood, including the wood on the house. Making it hard for mice to scale the house is on the right track. I have watched mice scale my house, run the roof to a dormer and dive in where the dormer roof meets the main roof. They also climb trees and run a limb to the roof to get into houses. One house had a telephone wire stapled vertically on the siding of the house and mice were climbing up the wire to the roof.
We talked earlier about animals giving warnings about others in the area. Did you know in southern Africa (S. Africa, Namibia, Botswana, etc) there is a bird called the Go-Away bird? It is a Grey Lourie and it is famous for finding a hunter or photographer in the area and he sticks with them calling repeatedly warning all other wildlife someone is there. He is very frustrating to people trying to be stealthy and hunt to photograph the animals in the area. I don't know if he has a sense of humor or is just a piddling nuisance but his name is well earned.
Did you know before a Hammar tribesman in the Omo River Valley of southern Ethiopia can get married he has to jump up on to the backs of and run across a line of bulls? He has to do this while stark naked and he has to run over and back of 15 bulls held tightly by men from the tribe then repeat making 4 successful trips without falling. If he falls he has to wait a year before he can try again. The bulls are actually steers and the ones we saw looked to be 1-2 years old so they were not the huge bulls you sometimes see in herds of African cattle. I guess short, fat men can never marry. (I don't know if there is a provision to use a springboard or shorter bulls in such cases?) ::)
Prior to the jumping the man's female relatives get whipped. The "groom's" friends and relatives are future groomsmen and have long limber switches and the women relatives (Sisters, cousins, mom, aunts, etc) are pretty drunk on local beer and taunt the beaters and blow horns in their faces and make sexually degrading remarks at them and such until they lash them across their bare backs. The beaters are often reluctant to hit them but when they finally do they typically raise a welt and draw blood. Many of the women have permanent scars from previous beatings. I even saw very pregnant women participating in the beating. An old matriarch from the tribe is standing by with a tub of lard or butter and will occasionally put a halt to one of the women participating especially when the girl is getting too frenzied in her actions. The old lady then rubs the "salve" into the wounds to help prevent infection I guess.
When we were there December 26, 2010 the bull jumping had become commercialized and any white tourists in the area were invited to pay to attend. The father of the jumper was in charge of setting the amount and collecting his fee. I don't know if that money is used to help pay a bride price or just to fund a big party.
Did you know for those of you living in the South where gars are common that you can use a piece of nylon cord to help you land them? Gars have a hard bony mouth a long bill full of tiny wicked little teeth. They like to feed in old oxbows and where these empty into the main river. I remember getting into a bunch of them in Dixie County Fla where Old Town Springs, a big clear spring, emptied into the Suwannee River which is similar to an oxbow mouth. The gars feed near the surface and often break the surface. I have had them reach up and grab topwater bass lures with the little propellers on the front and back but could not drive a hook into the bony mouth. What I learned from a friend was that you can tie on a big eyed hook like a catfish hook or such to your line then take a piece of about #24 (Or a couple of smaller pieces if that is all you have) nylon cord 18-20 inches long and center the length through the eye of the hook and tie a hard knot or two then unravel the ends of nylon cord. Set a float 12-18 above the hook, bait with a live bream or shiner or a piece of cut bait and toss it out where you see the gar breaking the surface. When the gar grabs the bait he will get the loose nylon threads hung on his sharp teeth and you will often land him to find the hook actually hanging outside his mouth. Be sure you are using a heavy catfish rod and reel if not saltwater tackle as gars can be very big strong fish. Where legal and safe you may want to use a .22 rifle or pistol and shoot the fish at the boat. Gars are notorious for tearing up landing nets. They get the point of their bill between the holes in a net and spread the hole bigger as they escape.
Talk about something escaping, some TV show recently showed a sqid or octopus that someone caught and plopped it on the deck of the boat. That thing found a small hole at deck level in the wall by the railing and proceeded to ooze through that hole and escape. You'd have to see it to appreciate it. Best way to describe it is that it extruded its' way through the hole.
Sounds more like an octopus than a squid from what I have seen of both of them. I know an octopus is extremely flexible and can squeeze into some ridiculously tight spots in coral and such. I'd heard of them squeezing out of a live box or such and getting out of the boat on occasion and can see them doing something like that.
They also change colors for camouflage and regrow missing limbs. Early in my diving career in Okinawa my dive buddy and I spotted an odd shape about the size between a volleyball and a basketball on the bottom of the bay we were diving in. We rotated it around and found an eye looking back at us. It was a very big octopus with 6 legs bitten off near his body. I bet the legs were 3" in diameter where bitten off and the 2 left looked to be 30" long. We released it and it limped off and I assume it survived unless another predator found it first. I remember we finished our dive and were walking back to our BOQ rooms (We were stationed on Camp Schwab USMC base and rented our gear from the camp MWR) and we were talking and suddenly we stopped and looked at each other and asked "What bit those legs off?" It had to have been a pretty stout predator like a shark or barracuda. I don't know why we did not think of that at the time. ??? ::)
A little closer to home, I removed some Long-tailed Weasels that were going under someone's porch, through a hole in the foundation and getting into the basement. They will clean the mice out of a house, but somehow people don't care for their toilet stations. I caught one in a small cage trap and put it in the back of my pickup. When I got to a place where I wanted to release it it had gotten out of the trap which had 1" X 1/2" wire mesh. Weaseled right through it he did. I once watched a muskrat go down through a steel grate with 1 1/2" slots.
Did you know the heart of a Swamp Cabbage (Sable Palm - State tree of Fla) are edible? The best height to cut is about waist high then you cut it off right at ground level. Supposedly the heart is as big in one this size as a 70' tall tree. You cut the fronds off, cut through the tree, cut the top out and had a "boot" about 30" tall. With a knife you cut through the this spots on each side of the cabbage boot and remove the next frond stub and repeat till you get to the tender heart. Cut or break off the tender white tip till it starts getting hard to break then remove another frond stub or two and repeat till you reach the heart itself. You can boil this with some bacon or pork for seasoning but it is even better fried. Fry a couple of strips of bacon to season the pan, add the chopped up Swamp cabbage till it is tender. If you trip too far up on the buds you will get some bitter taste supposedly Quinine which was also reported as the reason Seminole Indians did not get malaria. My grandmother used to sprinkle a little sugar in her swamp cabbage to off-set the bitter. Warning: Because it is all fiber, it is probably the world's greatest laxative. :D
I expected you to mention adding
"some fava beans and a nice Chianti."
Roxie,
I have eaten a lot of strange foods but even I have my limits. :D
My my Indiana WV you are loaded with great information 👍
Did you know that baby paper wasps/grubs make very good panfish bait?
It can be a little tricky to collect them. ::) The best way I found, other than sending someone else after them, was to find a big old red wasp nest the size of a dinner plate on a small bush or limb overhanging the lake or river. I'd use one of my cane poles or fiberglass crappie poles (The longer the better). I would ease my boat up towards the nest till I could just reach the nest with the outstretched tip of my pole and leave the outboard motor idling out of gear. I would pull the line on the fishing pole tight like a bow and ease the tip of the pole up past and over the nest so that the small stem of the nest was centered between where the line was tied on and the tip of the pole. Once this was done I'd continue to hold the line tight and give a sharp jerk cutting the nest off from the limb where it was attached allowing it to fall into the water below. Since this annoys the adult wasps considerable it is a good time to throw the motor into gear and head downriver a good piece. I'd let the nest float downstream until it was a safe distance away from the angry wasps clustered around the bush where the nest used to be then I'd go collect the floating nest. The baby grubs are very tender and are easily knocked off by small bluegills if they don't get hooked. Be careful removing the grubs as those ready to hatch can still sting.
After yesterday's post this may be a good time to post wasp and bee sting info. Did you know that a wasp can sting multiple times while a honeybee can only sting once? When a honeybee stings her abdomen attached to the stinger pulls off and she dies. If you have been stung by a honeybee you will see the abdomen attached to the stinger and it will be pulsing as it pumps more venom into you. Never try to pull a honeybee stinger out. It is barbed and is not going to pull out and all you will do is squeeze more venom into the sting. Beekeepers typically use a hive tool to scrape and break off the stinger level with the skin. If you don't have a hive tool handy use a sharp knife or if nothing else scrape it off with your fingernail and break it off as close to the skin as possible.
Wasp, bee and ant venom are a strong (Formic) acid so anything that will neutralize the acid should help. Use a base solution such as alcohol, hydrogen peroxide or bleach directly on the sting. Be careful if using a very strong bleach not to cause even more damage. I once got stung by a hornet on the forehead and soaked a cotton ball in bleach and held it on the sting. It neutralized the sting so well I got no swelling or anything but I ended up with a bleach burn that took many months to heal.
An old wives tale was to put chewing tobacco or chew up a cigar or cigarette and place the damp tobacco on the sting. Another OWT was to mash up 3 different types of green leaves and rub the juice on the sting. I don't know if that is true but lacking anything else in the area I have tried this and it may be my imagination but it seemed to offer some relief. I figure as long as none of the leaves are poison ivy/oak/sumac or other irritant, it probably can't hurt.
Honey Bees, my neighbor keeps them.
They swarm my pool during the hottest part of the day right when you want to go swimming :snowball:
Bugging me honey bees - YouTube (https://youtu.be/CNHXRxlIXvE)
I think they are after the water, and congregate wherever they can reach the water without falling in, which is the steps, ladder on deep end, and anything floating in the pool including me.
Funny thing is my neighbor also has a pool, but I think the bees do not like chlorine.. my pool is salt water.
I complain to him about it, but don't think he has told them to stay out of my yard - nobody has been stung yet but my kids will not swim when they are there.
JJ
I am surprised they are coming to salt water. They definitely come to water but if your neighbor puts out water closer to them they should be coming to it. A gentle slope to the water makes it much easier and safer for them to come to it and should actually increase his honey production since they won't be having to travel as far or as long.
Even during the winter if you get a warm sunny day or two they will make cleansing flights to clean out the hive and get water.
The salinity of my pool is 1/10 of ocean water.
I keep the pool at 3200ppm and ocean water is 35000ppm (I just looked it up).
The pool just barely tastes salty. Mostly the bees are going into my railings, where pool water gets trapped from kids sloshing around, and climbing out up the stair. That time of year it was very dry, so nearby stream alternative was dried up. Maybe a little salt helps the honey??
I was trying a citronella tiki torch to drive them off, but I think it just agitated them.
They also mob my potted plants, that I was watering daily:
Honey bees - YouTube (https://youtu.be/RWnRZyswCSA)
JJ
I have a chlorine pool with a waterfall and an exposed aggregate concrete deck. The dogs are always getting in and out so water sits on the deck. I think the ag seems to hold water better than a smooth deck. On hot days, the bees will be on the deck or on the rocks that get splashed by the waterfall. The only problem for them is one of my dogs likes to eat the bees ::) After her tongue gets stung, she will snap them out of the air, spit them out and step on them, and then eat them. But then, sometimes, she gets stung in the foot ::) She just doesn't learn... She's been doing this for years.
Why not just supply the bees with another source of water nearby? Bees and wasps come to my bird bath when it's real dry.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 16, 2021, 09:09:52 AM
After yesterday's post this may be a good time to post wasp and bee sting info. Did you know that a wasp can sting multiple times while a honeybee can only sting once? When a honeybee stings her abdomen attached to the stinger pulls off and she dies. If you have been stung by a honeybee you will see the abdomen attached to the stinger and it will be pulsing as it pumps more venom into you. Never try to pull a honeybee stinger out. It is barbed and is not going to pull out and all you will do is squeeze more venom into the sting. Beekeepers typically use a hive tool to scrape and break off the stinger level with the skin. If you don't have a hive tool handy use a sharp knife or if nothing else scrape it off with your fingernail and break it off as close to the skin as possible.
Wasp, bee and ant venom are a strong (Formic) acid so anything that will neutralize the acid should help. Use a base solution such as alcohol, hydrogen peroxide or bleach directly on the sting. Be careful if using a very strong bleach not to cause even more damage. I once got stung by a hornet on the forehead and soaked a cotton ball in bleach and held it on the sting. It neutralized the sting so well I got no swelling or anything but I ended up with a bleach burn that took many months to heal.
An old wives tale was to put chewing tobacco or chew up a cigar or cigarette and place the damp tobacco on the sting. Another OWT was to mash up 3 different types of green leaves and rub the juice on the sting. I don't know if that is true but lacking anything else in the area I have tried this and it may be my imagination but it seemed to offer some relief. I figure as long as none of the leaves are poison ivy/oak/sumac or other irritant, it probably can't hurt.
Very Important. Anybody that's allergic make sure they carry there EpiPen with them on a trip out in nature
My wife is allergic to them and carries her epi-pen in her camera bag and any time we go fishing or such. They are not nearly as much of a problem as when we were further south but there are still plenty around here. I usually getting into them in one of my wood stacks every year then I get more diligent about checking first. A leafblower works fine to find them and you can defend yourself with it. Blow the dust out of you stacks of lumber or slabs and if they are in there they will come right out while you are still far enough to keep from getting stung till you can get something to kill them.
Quote from: KEC on March 16, 2021, 05:34:52 PMWhy not just supply the bees with another source of water nearby?
we did that, somebody tell the bees smiley_contract
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 10, 2021, 10:21:28 PM
I was going to try drawing a picture for todays post but it is late, I'm tired and have another early start and probably a long day so you will have to read and use your imagination to understand what i am describing.
Did you know old time Norwegians, and possibly others designed the footers on their buildings to prevent access by rodents? While living and working in Norway our Noggie daughter Ruth (Former HS exchange student who lived with us for a school year and has been back on many visits since and vice versa) took us around her home area and showed us some old buildings with design features to keep mice and rats out. They used a large rot resistant wood as footers. I don't remember if they set them on a rock or directly on the ground. Envision a log about 18"-20" in diameter and maybe 30" tall. Imagine having such a footer log then sawing a circle about a foot below the top to a depth of 5-6 inches then using a hatchet or hand adze to shape the area below the circle cut to make half of an hourglass shape so it a mouse climbing from the ground up would reach the narrow spot on the footer only to find a flat, squared off roof over his head that he could not easily pass.
Some of those old Noggies had their stuff in one bag! This simple design has kept those old buildings free of pests for hundreds of years. (I understand some of those Noggies were even smart enough to come to the USA, although some stayed in New York instead of coming further south.)
If I can't remember where I saved an old picture from I guess it is probably fair use :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/stabbur.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1615985112)
I know these buildings as a "stabbur" which might bring up more links if you go looking. Often the pier post is round and shaped on all sides.
The typical person's notions of a pier foundation is a set of unbraced wobbly legs under a building that grows in height and weight. A collapse waiting to happen. Look at how these builders solved that problem, a tall egg crate type joint captured within the post. Notice the gap at the stairs. Also the water shedding features throughout. Take a look at the log profile, shaved so that a shaped wrought iron ring would slide down the length. This gives a neat pleasing appearance, makes notching and grooving easier, but also removes the sapwood exposing more resistant heartwood to the weather.
Don,
Nice workmanship. Those old timers had their stuff together. I assume that is an old mill of some kind?
Since we are on historical issues did you know the most important man in many cases when the original settlers landed in America was often the ship's carpenter? The high class, landed gentry with plenty of prestige and money in the old world might be the ones who could afford to buy passage over but when they landed the low level ship's carpenter was the only one who knew how to build a house.
A stabbur was traditionally a farm storehouse for grain, dried meat and fish, etc. The mouseproof tupperware container of the day. Variations on the same basic style run across Scandinavia into Russia.
Some of those ships carpenters houses were even built like a boat upside down. Early settlers knew or learned quickly just how valuable the tradesmen were. Carpenters and blacksmiths immediately come to mind but you aren't getting far without a cobbler! They were all needed in the new country.
Did you know nightcrawlers come out of the ground on warm nights when the ground is damp especially after a heavy soaking rain or where a sprinkler has been in use? (I understand golf greens are fine places to collect nightcrawlers in areas where they live.) The rear end of a nightcrawler is flat and he uses it as an anchor in the ground while the bulk of his body is outside searching for food or a mate or such. If you have ever watched a robin and nightcrawler doing a tug of war this is a fine example of the strength of this anchor. Sometimes the robin wins but if he loses his grip the worm escapes back underground.
Nightcrawlers can detect light so when collecting them you want your light on a low setting or use old weak batteries. Try to keep the worm in the dim outer circle of light as much as possible. Since it is difficult to see/locate the end of the worm it is often hard to see which end is in the ground and which is the head end. The technique I found that works best is when I see a section of a worm out of the hole I use my index finger to quickly but firmly pin down the worm. Once that is done I determine which end is in the hole and which end is free. With my free hand, I then grab the worm between my pinch point and as close to the hole as I can. Once I have a good grip on it I hold steady pressure until the worm pulls free. If you pull too hard you will break the worm in two pieces.
Catching nightcrawlers for fish bait is a great activity to do with small children like your kids or grandkids. On a damp night around here as you walk you can actually hear the nightcrawlers retreating rapidly into their holes. They are very loud and sound like a bunch of kids slurping long spaghetti noodles. :D
Did You Know, Nightcrawlers will come out at night even in the winter if the ground isn't frozen and the temperature is mild. This can be a great food source for foxes, skunks, raccoons, etc. Did you ever drive a steel rod in the ground and have earthworms come out ? I was once out and saw some molehills and then saw the ground moving from a mole working its' tunnel. Suddenly, earthworms began squirming, almost flying out of the ground to escape from the mole. Worms are a big part of moles' diets. This helped to explain the worms being so sensitive to steel rods being driven in the ground and the sounds of someone walking on the ground. When I was a kid I knew guys who did well selling worms for bait.
In North Florida, they "grunt" for worms. I bet that WV has been a "worm grunter".
I saw something about that on the tube. It looked REALLY interesting, especially for fishing. I think that the guy did it to sell the worms in his shop. Hmm...
Danny,
I was never able to grunt up earthworms. My wife calls it "fiddling" them up and they used to use an old handsaw and saw off a small tree and vibrate it by sawing down into it as if splitting it. The vibration through the roots would bring the worms up. Some people used an old chainsaw and took the chain off and stuck the snout in the ground and revved it up. The standard way was to make a point on a rough 1X4 about 3' long, drive it a foot or so in the ground then rub another rough board across the top causing maximum vibration. I hear experts can grunt up worms as much as 30' away under ideal conditions.
Around Blountstown and Two Egg Fla, about 200 miles south of where I was raised, the state or national parks there rent out earthworm grunting rights. I read where one old timer there sent all 3 of his kids to college on his worm grunting income. We would buy them and used to use these earthworms for fishbait on the Suwannee River when we would go down to my grandparents there. At Two Egg they had an annual contest to see who could grunt up the biggest earthworm and the furthest distance. At the same contest they have a Possum Beauty contest.
Since we are talking fishbait did you know that catalpa worms, the caterpillar phase of a moth that lays its eggs on the the catalpa tree, make excellent fishbait? The caterpillars eat only the leaves of the catalpa tree and will completely strip the tree of all leaves. The caterpillar grows to about 3" long then "goes down" into the ground to pupate. The best time to catch the catalpa worm is when it is fully mature and ready to go pupate. You can use a long slender fishing pole and reach up and touch or "tickle" the worm who lives on the bottom side of the leaf and he will turn loose and fall to the ground.
To keep catalpa worms alive people made big screen wire cages and stuffed green catalpa leaves in there for them to eat. Another trick was to put them in a big brown paper grocery bag in the refrigerator to slow down their activity. Often we would put an inch or so of corn meal in the bottom as absorbent. My old mentor used to package them in plastic cups and cover with white Karo corn syrup and freeze them for future use.
They spit out a nasty green-brown juice that is nearly impossible to get off your fingers no matter how strong a soap you use. My dad was a cook in the Army and he said the only way he found to get catalpa worm juice off your hands was to make up a big batch of biscuit batter. steve_smiley
I can vouch for the Catalpa Worms as an outstanding fish bait. Not sure you'll find a better catfish bait. Was fishing one day, not having any luck and an old timer was bringing his jon boat to shore full of catfish saying he was done for the day and he gave me his leftover funny worms. He said to bite off the head and once they hit the water the green goo guts ooze out into the water creating a fluorescent cloud, which is irresistible to fish. He was right!
They are commonly called "Catawba worms" in my neck of the woods, due to the major river system here, the Catawba River. They emerge around the beginning of July usually and sometimes there will be a second emergence later in the summer. They totally defoliate the Catalpa tree and even in drought years the Catalpa survives this infestation and puts out new growth. I planted a few Catalpa seedlings in my yard and neighborhood and now have a good supply for a couple of weeks a year.
Two other good fish baits are those big green grasshoppers and big black crickets you find by flipping over flat rocks and boards laying on the ground. I never figured out a good way to get them in large numbers. Also, crayfish that have just shed their exoskeleton (shell). I have never seen anything that will get a strike faster than a softshell crayfish.
Stan,
Sometimes small fish would suck the insides out of a catalpa worm. When fishing was slow another technique was to pull (No need to bite) off the head, take a match sized stick and push from the rear to the front basically turning the worm inside out then run your hook through and pull the worm off the stick.
I can remember slang term was "Tawby worms" or "Tawbah worms" where I grew up. Rain crows were bad to eat them.
Karl,
Bait shops here I think fed the crawfish oatmeal and such to make them shed to get softshells which were preferred fish bait. I used to use a long handled shrimp net and scroop in the leaves and bottom of the deep holes in drainage ditches and such and catch baby crawfish. A crawfish an inch long is perfect bream, crappie, and catfish bait. They are scared of a big hardhelled crawfish. I know bass and catfish eat them but a big crawfish is poor bait. I'd tear them in two and just use the tail for bait with some success but a baby 1" long is preferred food for all the fish in our local lakes and streams.
I like the black crickets but where I grew up in the south grey crickets were sold in all bait shops. I have found places where the long grey mole crickets would come out and on to the paved roads or parking pads and such. They are good bait where you can find them. All grasshoppers are good bait where you can catch them.
Did you know the Baka pygmies of the central African countries live in dome shaped huts covered with leaves? They start by cutting a bunch of small limber trees/shrubs, generally under 1" in diameter at the big end and maybe half an inch in diameter at the small end/top, then they stick one end in the ground. On a small overnight/temporary hunters hut, they will stick both ends in the ground. On a larger more permanent hut they may tie the tops together in the middle. They repeat with more sticks weaving them together as they go around the hut. They leave a space at the front as an opening/doorway. When finished with the framework it looks very much like an eskimo igloo. Next they collect a bunch of broad leaves and start weaving them into the framework starting from the bottom to the top overlapping as they go. When they are finished they have a very comfortable, cool, watertight structure. if they stay in an area any significant length of time they just periodically add to the leaves to make sure the hut remains watertight.
Dang , Howard. How can you remember all of your travels and experiences?
I really enjoy reading about them . Thanks.
"Did You Know" almost needs it's own board!
It's THAT good.
Ellmoe,
I have a house full of souvenirs from the places we visited and every one is a memory whether it is a basket, boat paddle, spear, red cloth wrap they wore in Kenya, crossbow, camel saddlebags, rawhide Mongolian rope, etc. Plus I have about 940 pages of journal records I wrote while I was there. Many of these entries are backed up by my wife's photos for when she was there for a visit on we were on vacation together.
When we visited the Central African Republic we went out with the medicine woman and another lady (23 June 2003). Sonjah (Medicine woman about 45" tall) took us out and showed us the plants and described their use while her friend Mballi stayed near the trail with the baby she was nursing. Mballi cut the limber switches and when we got back she made the framework for a hunters hut about 4-5 ft in diameter and 3.5' tall. Then she and Sonjah put the leaves on. I talked Becky into both of us sitting in it for a photo we used on the Christmas Card that year. We filled it to overflowing.
Taco,
We just need more user input. I'm learning too and now know groundhogs can climb and other tidbits that will come back to mind as I see something new.
Since we were talking about bees coming to water last week did you know that is where the term "Beeline" comes from? To find a bee tree old timers would find a spot where bees would come to water and watch them when they left because they would fly a nearly perfectly straight line back to the hive or bee tree. The old timers would watch and follow a bee till they lost sight of it then stop and wait for the next bee to come along the same path. My maternal grandfather used to even talk about sprinkling flour on the bees to make them easier to see in flight. Eventually they would find the tree.
When they found the bee tree they would carve their initials in it. Once so marked the tree was claimed as their property and most folks would honor the claim - or suffer the consequences.
If you read Louis L'Amour westerns and such you will sometimes find where his hero was wounded and dying of thirst in the desert till he spotted a bee which he then followed to a hidden water hole and was saved accordingly.
My Father use to call it lining bees. He was born in '23. Honey and maple syrup was their sugar than.
Sometimes it's what you don't know that makes for very funny and fond memories looking back.
When I was very young, our extended family would have picnics in a nearby State park in the area called Hibernia State Park. As children we really got excited about going because they had pavilions and outdoor rest rooms and endless possibilities for exploring with all our of cousins.
My great grandfather was always a main attraction because he was so grizzled and just a little scary. One particular year the old man really surprised us by giving each one of us little tiny Morton salt shakers. He told us that if we could sneak up on a squirrel and sprinkle its tail with salt the squirrel would stop running and we could take it home as a pet.
It's embarrassing to admit but I was well into my twenties before I realized that great grandfather was a genius at getting us to leave him alone.
Roxie,
Sounds like a good way to keep the kids busy and out of your hair. When I was a kid they used to tell us if you could sneak up on a bird and sprinkle salt on his tail you could catch him. I think it was my first grade teacher who explained that if you could get that close to a bird you could catch him anyway and you did not need the salt.
When my 4 y/o grandson comes to visit he gets us up every morning and immediately wants to go with me to feed the horses. On the way out to the barn I would see a small stick in the access road and kick it out of the way like a soccer ball and Quinn will run around kicking sticks like that the rest of the morning. When I take him for a walk in his home area of Charlotte NC he will do the same thing to any stick he finds on the sidewalk on the Greenway and such there. Sometimes it does not take a lot to keep the kids interested and entertained.
Did you know the southern Anole changes colors from green to brown based on his background color? We always called them Chameleons in N. Fla where I grew up. Also they are equipped with a break-away tail. When a cat or other predator slaps his paw down on one of them and pins the tail it will break off and the Anole will escape and grow a new tail. I have seen them where the tail broke half way and they grew a new tail as well as keeping the old one so if you ever see a fork tailed Anole you know what caused it.
One way to catch Anoles and fence lizards, where they are common is to tie a cricket with a piece of string and tie it along a wooden fence or tree limb where the reptiles travel. They will find the insect and grab hold and not turn loose. That is a great project to do with your kids and grandkids.
I think some African tribes catch monkeys in a similar fashion using a narrow necked clay jug and a piece of fruit or such placed where the monkeys travel. The monkey will stick his paw in the jug and grab the fruit and can't pull his hand free and will remain there till he is caught by the tribesmen. I think Aesop had one of his fables about the same subject or something similar.
I have been debating telling this story, but, statute of limitations has run out.
When in the service in Germany we had field exercises that were "tame", no loaded weapons. But some of us, me, discovered that you could load a cleaning rod tip in front of a blank cartridge and had some short range accuracy. I was and am a country boy, raised hunting and fishing with all that entails. Standing (sitting) guard duty in German forests was as much like sitting in a deer stand or under a tree as I did in the Ozarks of Missouri. Only there was more game at the time and some very restrictive laws, both German and military, that prohibited a lowly enlisted man in killing game.
With all that in mind, I was sitting in a location when a local family of pheasant wandered up with in range, and I fired. The cleaning rod tip spins and becomes a buzz saw, more or less. Rather luck, or well aimed, it took the head off a pheasant. The only problem was the sound of the shot. In a short period of time the Sgt of the Guard showed up in a jeep and questioned the shot. "Sorry, sarge, I was half asleep and changing position I fired my rifle." Short chewing out and he left. I picked up the pheasant, cleaned it, and took it to our mess Sgt who was, by good chance, a country boy as well. So, the mess Sgt had cooked the thing up and he and I were enjoying something besides field rations when the 1st Sgt shows up looking for coffee. The smell of good food in the air, another chewing out, and split a rather small bird three ways.
Not to be out done, one of our guys ran over one of the little red deer that they have over there. Being a county boy himself (I noted a lot of combat engineers were country boys) he took a ham, which is in its self a chore in that bayonets are not designed for skinning and butchering game, and took it to mess Sgt, once again the 1st Sgt, who must have had foresight or a spy in the cook house, showed up and demanded an explaination as well as a share of the booty.
You can take the boy out of the county, but don't give him a gun, a knife and game in front of him.
TR,
Reminds me of tales my dad told about guard duty in Korea about 1946 or early 1947. (He was there at 16 y/o after lying to get in the Army and this was before open hostilities had started but tensions were pretty high.) They were on one end of a bridge over the river and the Russians manned a similar post on the other end of the bridge. Evidently the Russians got to trash talking one of the American teams till an old redneck from Ga stepped out, raised his rifle and aimed at a wading heron of some sort a couple hundred yards away and with one shot took its head clean off. There was no more Russian trash talking.
Another time one of the Americans came to the post staggering drunk. He grabbed an OD can of bug spray with screw in cap, staggered across the bridge, screwed the cap in till it started hissing, then he lobbed it through the door or window of the Russian guardhouse. The Russians evidently thought it was poison gas and ran and left their rifles behind. The drunk American walked back and collected them and brought them back. Of course this created an international incident and a serious butt chewing for the American. I suspect he got off much easier than the Russians did.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 22, 2021, 09:12:00 AMDid you know the southern Anole changes colors from green to brown based on his background color? We always called them Chameleons in N. Fla where I grew up. Also they are equipped with a break-away tail. When a cat or other predator slaps his paw down on one of them and pins the tail it will break off and the Anole will escape and grow a new tail. I have seen them where the tail broke half way and they grew a new tail as well as keeping the old one so if you ever see a fork tailed Anole you know what caused it.
They also can/will fight: LINK (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=50213.msg725559#msg725559)
Texas Ranger, Sounds like maybe you were in Grafenwoehr ? I drove all over West Germany, Holland and Belgium while Stationed near Frankfort in the army. Took a load to Grafenwoehr and nearly got lost on all those roads through the woods there.
Quote from: KEC on March 22, 2021, 12:40:27 PM
Texas Ranger, Sounds like maybe you were in Grafenwoehr ? I drove all over West Germany, Holland and Belgium while Stationed near Frankfort in the army. Took a load to Grafenwoehr and nearly got lost on all those roads through the woods there.
I was, but the pheasant event was some where on the Rhine, the deer was Grafenwoehr. I was stationed in Schweitzegen, but traveled a lot.
Lynn,
I think yours are same genus but different species than ours. I never saw them fight but bet it was neat to watch. Yours in the picture have a sail on their backbone ours never had. They would "Show their money" with the circular red body part under their neck they show to attract a mate or chase off an invader to their chosen territory.
I learned geckos in Okinawa are territorial and I watched them knock each other off my ceiling. They also chirped like birds and the first night on the island I heard them in my BOQ room and kept looking for chimney swifts or such till I talked to some other old salts who knew what it was.
Back to Anoles - while we were in Jacksonville NC after I left the USMC and I was working for the RSNF my 11 y/o son caught a couple and decided since they would open their mouth and bite but had no teeth and did not seem to hurt anything they would be cool earrings for his 9 y/o sister and he hung one on each of her ears. She let out a scream and my wife had to go out and made our son remove them. Another budding fashion trend shot to heck! :D
Howard, I have/had never seen that humped back either and neither of these had that until they squared off. Notice that even the stomach's especially on one of them was puffed out. After the battle, both of them resumed their normal slim shape.
Lynn,
Maybe they are the same then and only expand like that when they fight. Thanks for the update.
Since Texas Ranger mentioned the difficulty and restrictions to hunting in Germany which is similar to other parts of Europe did you know how difficult it can be to hunt over there? We think to hunt you just go down to WalMart and buy a hunting license, grab the gun you have had since you were a teenager and a pocket full of ammo and hit the woods. Not so in Europe.
We have a Norwegian daughter, former HS Exchange student of ours, who hunts with her Dad over there. She tells me to get a hunting license in Norway you must first show proof you have access to land to hunt - a club or own a lot of land. Every year you have to shoot at least 30 rounds in practice then you have to demonstrate to the DNR agent or whatever they call him there observing your practice, that you can hit a 5" bullseye 5 times in a row from 100 meters. The Game Warden will then issue you a license with your rifle number on it. That is the only weapon you can hunt with. If you want to vary your guns you have to repeat the process and qualify with each different gun and have them listed on your license. Oh, BTW, you or your hunting club have to own or be under contract for a government certified tracking dog. If you or any member of the club wound an animal they get the tracking dog to go find him. To get your dog certified (Ruth has one and maybe her second one certified by now) you give the game warden a container of sheeps blood I guess you can buy from your butcher. The GW lays a track of a certain length and number of twists and turns and waits 24 hours then you put your candidate dog on the track and he has to find the end of the trail. If he finds the end of the trail as required in the time allotted he will be certified. Once you have met these requirements you can get your license and legally hunt. Game legally killed can be sold to local markets unlike here where it is illegal to sell wild game. We routinely bought Elk meat (Noggie for moose - so a Norwegian Elkhound was a moose dog) in the grocery store there. Where Ruth lives they have the largest free ranging herd of Reindeer left in Norway.
If a deer, reindeer or moose gets hit by a car in her area the Game Warden will sometimes call Ruth or others with certified tracking dogs to go hunt up the injured animal. When she finds it they either pay her a fee or all or part of the meat which she can use or sell.
Hunting culture varies, a lot, region to region in Europe . In the south, central and western parts, so the bulk of the whole thing, hunting is and has been limited, primarily, to the social elite, it's a thing for the posh and in that sense there is even a kind of stigma attached. Joining hunting associations has broadened access and I think is a source of income for large land owners too. It obviously is related to having access to large enough tracts of land which has been for the most part privately held, if not, again depending on region, then often locally regulated in order to control conflicting interests: wood supply, recreation, grazing and farming and so on and so on.
I think it is more egalitarian up in Scandinavia, isn't everything there? But it makes sense with a thinner population and more open areas.
The east is something different again and I'm not so familiar.
It's my idea that almost everywhere game meat is widely available in restaurants, super and street markets.
Don,
I think we discussed earlier in this thread about game farming in Africa. Any supermarket or restaurant over there will have Springbok, Kudu, and Oryx and such. It is really good for the farmers/landowners and the environment as the game is adapted to the area and survives on the native vegetation without bringing in new diseases or destroying the plant life and such. They typically hunt them at night with lights and teams of professional shooters with small caliber rifles making head shots followed by a team of skinners and they hang the meat in chiller trucks and have portable abattoirs with a team of butchers cutting the meat into the desired cuts for market. The teams can travel around the country working for first one landowner then another.
U
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/64601/image~20.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616530178)
That's very different from these parts.
Don,
I don't know what I am looking at. Looks like mystery meat sirloin tips of some kind from Colorado. Was this a fresh (almost) road kill or something?
I don't know but will ask the next time Ruth calls if she has to take her reindeer meat to a special butcher to be processed before it can be sold in the market in Norway.
Your meant to be only looking at the, "not for sale" stipulation on this elk, (not moose), out of my freezer, the rest inconsequential, in contrast to the commercial African enterprisers in wild game meat and even the commercializations in Europe. A hunting license in Colorado includes the provision the meat is used for personal consumption. Of course we've got a lot of ranchers who'd not appreciate competition.
Don,
Thanks for the clarification. I think you will see the same stamp on any of their personal beef, pork, lamb, goat, etc. people take in to be butchered. Anything that has not been USDA inspected will typically have that stamp.
I don't know to much about it since until now all the meat I ever had hanging in the pantry or stocked in the freezer gets butchered at home, this packaged elk being a neighborly gesture, very welcome indeed.
Did You Know, At one time, the commercialization of North American wildlife was a big factor along with unregulated harvest by individuals in the decimation of game species. Enter the Federal Restoration of Wildlife Act which put an excise tax on firearms and ammo. The money was(and still is) used to pay for law enforcement of new game laws, seasons and bag limits. It also pays for biologists, programs to restore wildlife populations, and hunter safety/education programs. Sale of game meat was outlawed to prevent over harvest. Where I live in Onondaga County, New York, there were no deer left in the early 1900's. Now we have municipalities paying US Department of Agriculture's Wildlife Services to cull deer where hunters don't have access to land to hunt on. In the 1800's gunners shot wheel barrow loads of shorebirds for market. I wonder how many hunters have read up on this history.
The 30's were rough in my part of the Ozarks, folks ate everything that moved. I killed a deer in 1966, and got a letter from the mayor and from county judge congratulating me on on killing the first deer in the county in decades. Not commercial, survival. Now, deer, turkey, pheasant and quail abound, or so I have been told. Oh and bear coming back in Missouri.
KEC,
I read something last week where no game animal had ever gone extinct and the article was stressing how the money and attention spent by sportsmen helped protect the wildlife. I sent a copy of the article to my old guide in South Africa who is big into trying to preserve the animals there. He is a hunter but realizes they need to be managed to survive.
TR,
I have read about the market hunting and my grandfather was a gator hunter and a plume hunter till the laws changed. He was one of the early game wardens in Fla when the judges did not even believe in enforcing the laws. One particular judge was bad to release the people Grandpa had charged. The judge was also a big land owner with lots of cows and hogs he had to tend. He started having problems with the bridges burning behind him and he had to walk out of the woods a couple of times then he started handing out convictions to game violations and his bridges quit burning.
Did you know that in Mongolia to ensure the sheep do not give birth at the wrong season when the weather is too harsh for them to survive, rams are outfitted with a "sheep condom" to prevent premature breeding of the ewes? The device looks like a leather apron tied around and hanging below the ram's belly. When he goes to mount the ewe the apron blocks access and prevents breeding. When the proper breeding season for ideal birthing arrives the herders remove the apron and nature takes its course.
The next time you see a post of the MM wearing his leather welding apron I hope you will remember this tidbit. :D
AW, that's just wrong, on so many levels. :D ;D :D ;D
BUT, it's funny!
And I can testify....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0298.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1267041251)
That it works as intended. ;) :D
MM is a heck of a man, double apron. ;)
Nearly every evening we have a tom turkey pecking around in the front of the house in the garden spot. Once in a while there will be four to six hens working the same place. I enjoy watching them and won't allow them to be hunted on my place. The deer on the other hand are fair game, especially the does "when legal". The population needs to be thinned out but it's hard to get cooperation, since the nephews seem to think horns make venison taste better.
Did you know one technique Himba cattle herders in Namibia use to wean large calves that fail to naturally wean themselves promptly enough is the herder pokes a hole in the thin skin between the calf's nostrils and inserts a couple of small bristle like sticks in there? When the calf tries to nurse he pokes the cow in the udders and she kicks him away. I assume over time the sticks rot away or get hung in the brush while feeding and get pulled out.
Most European countries have well managed game populations.This , along with a moderate climate and good cover makes for some excellent hunting.
Sweden is about the size of my province, Saskatchewan , with about eleven million people. They take one hundred thousand moose and two hundred thousand deer each year. I doubt if there are that many moose taken in North America.
We have a million people in Saskatchewan and maybe take five thousand moose.
There is a case to be made for private ownership of game
Quote from: dogone on March 25, 2021, 09:05:15 PM
Most European countries have well managed game populations.This , along with a moderate climate and good cover makes for some excellent hunting.
Sweden is about the size of my province, Saskatchewan , with about eleven million people. They take one hundred thousand moose and two hundred thousand deer each year. I doubt if there are that many taken in North America.
We have a million people in Saskatchewan and maybe take five thousand.
There is a case to be made for private ownership of game
There are around 200,000 deer per year harvested in Ohio alone. Same goes for West Virginia and likely several other US states.
The total US annual harvest is 6 to 7 million
Yeah, and that may just be the ones we kill with our cars. :D I think WV has the highest vehicle to deer kill in the country and our insurance is priced accordingly.
I was just referring to moose harvest. I edited post to clarify.
How many moose taken in Ohio?
Ain't no meeses living in Ohio that I know of.
Did you know the screw worm used to be the limiting factor for the number of deer in the state of Florida? Evidently, if I remember my Wildlife Biology classes correctly, Fla used to have about 10,000 deer. Any time a deer got a cut, scratch or other injury the screw flies laid eggs in it and the maggots drilled into the muscle infecting and weakening the animal till it died or predators killed it.
The screw worm was eliminated in my lifetime by scientists taking advantage of its lifecycle. The female fly will only mate once but the male, lacking a leather apron ;), would mate many times. Scientists found they could irradiate adult flies and sterilize the males which were released in the area. The males flew around merrily spreading dead pollen to unsuspecting females who then set up housekeeping laying eggs everywhere that never hatched. After several cycles of this the density of viable flies in the area dropped so low the female flies could not find a mate and they died out.
Did you know the steering mechanism on a camel or yak is a stick through his nose with a rope tied to it? The rope is pulled left or right to make him go in that direction. I don't remember if you pull it down or up to stop him. As I remember the owner would find a stick with a fork and cut off both sections above the fork leaving a Y shape a couple of inches across, they poke a hole in the nose between the nostril and push the stick through till the Y stops it then the split the other end and spread it kind of like opening up a cotter key. They tie a rope around the stick and pass the end up to the rider. I never got to watch them training a new animal to steer so I don't know how long it takes the animal to learn. I do know a Mongolian yak is the smoothest ride I have ever been on - he just sort of glides along with almost no noticeable bumping up and down or side to side.
I think they use this same system for a Filipino Cariboo or water buffalo they use as their draft animals.
Did you know the worlds smallest antelopes are dik diks? These little antelopes are not as big as some of our rabbits or hares. Some stand about 10"-12" at the shoulder and can weigh 5-6 lbs. They are beautiful little animals with 2"-3" horns. They are mostly nocturnal with big limpid eyes and typically stay in heavy shaded brush. They are browsers eating the leaves off of various shrubs and such. Fortunately they are pretty adaptable and as best I remember they have pretty stable populations with good reproductive rates.
I used to eradicate possums until I learned that they eat ticks and are 98% immune to rabies. They also help keep the carrion devoured. I wouldn't eat one though!
I have eaten many strange food around this old world but I can honestly say I never knowingly ate a possum. I have pulled too many out of old cow and mule carcasses and such to ever get that hungry. I have also heard that they are tick eating machines and if so, more power to them. I used to catch mother possums and bring them home for the kids to play with the babies. There are few things in life cuter than a baby possum.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 28, 2021, 10:51:39 AM
Did you know the worlds smallest antelopes are dik diks? These little antelopes are not as big as some of our rabbits or hares. Some stand about 10"-12" at the shoulder and can weigh 5-6 lbs. They are beautiful little animals with 2"-3" horns. They are mostly nocturnal with big limpid eyes and typically stay in heavy shaded brush. They are browsers eating the leaves off of various shrubs and such. Fortunately they are pretty adaptable and as best I remember they have pretty stable populations with good reproductive rates.
I've also read that they are VERY tough to put down. That's according to some of the safari type readings that I've read in the past, although I'm fairly certain that I'll never be able to go on one. I also understand that most Africa game is the same way.
I have never heard of the small to medium animals being particularly hard to put down with a well placed shot from most adequate modern firearms. I forget the name of the old hunter but I remember one who killed most of Africa's big game with a 30-06 up to and including elephants. He studied his prey carefully and used bullets designed to open at the desired rate, conducted careful stalks and placed his shots precisely to great effect. Most hunters tend to want to overkill their prey because they are legitimately scared of it. I'd be scared to face a cape buffalo on the ground with him too. Ted Bear killed an elephant with a bow as I remember. He had a special bamboo bow with something like 110 lb pull and 40 inch arrows. In all honesty I think after he made his shot with the bow his PH shot it again with a heavy caliber rifle round.
If I were going to Africa to hunt I would love to take a good .22 rifle and shoot Fracolins (which always looked like a big bobwhite quail and made me drool every time I saw one) and Guineas and maybe a DikDik or two to eat. I have no desire to shoot the big game. I'm not a trophy hunter. Cape buffalo reminded me of a big herd of black angus cows - but I was riding through them and not threatening them.
Local tribesmen do not understand our animal rights groups getting upset about people shooting lions and especially leopards which are bloodthirsty killers and will wipe out a whole flock of sheep or goats or such. I have no problem with people killing such in self defense or for protection of their flocks but for me to put a hide on the wall or rug or hang a set of horns in the corner is not for me.
Did you know the largest, and probably the least dangerous, shark in the ocean is the giant whale shark? They have a huge, wide mouth they open to feed on plankton, small krill and such. The mouth on a whale shark looks a lot like the one on a big old flathead catfish.
The only time I ever saw a whale shark was June 21, 2011 on a dive off the coast of Phuket Thailand. We were diving along some pinnacles admiring the coral and sea critters when my dive partner for the day, an Italian dive master name Francesco Ferrari, grabbed my left arm frantically pointed out to the open ocean so I followed him. Suddenly out of distance a huge shape appeared as a 30' female whale shark circled within 2' of me. I could have easily reached out and petted her. I spun in the water watching her swim away then looked behind and a second, smaller, male about 20' long followed her and passed by me also. It was truly an amazing sight to see.
We continued our dive by the pinnacles till we had run out of time and air then when I got back to the boat and shed my tank and weight belt, Francesco told me "I have over 1,000 dives under my belt but this is the first time I have ever seen one of them. Not only that, this is not an area where they are known to frequent." I don't know who was happier to see them - me or Francesco.
Did you know that the water filters out the various colors of sunlight at a specific rate based on the wavelength of the light? The first color to go is Red which disappears in as little as 15-20 feet, then orange, yellow, green, etc light disappears as you go deeper. As a scuba diver we would encounter this phenomenon routinely. Many times when scuba diving and spear fishing in the Red Sea off the coast of Jeddah Saudi Arabia, I would dive down and shoot a blue and grey grouper at 50-60 feet deep only to return to the surface to find it was actually a bright red fish.
Night diving with artificial lights and flash photography show the true colors and the difference is amazing. Many times my wife would take pictures of soft coral (Fire coral is a prime example) of something that looked grey or blue only to find it was vibrant yellow or red colors.
And MAN has evolved to the point of no longer seeing the UV effect on some plants and even what many laundry detergents have on clothing. Wild game can quite often detect these wavelengths and will "bust" you when hunting. Sight, scent and hearing are games primary means of staying alive. These are the reasons for being still, not making noise, and being as scent free as possible. It's just difficult for us humans to determine whether or not our laundry detergent has this "brightener" in it. There are some products out that do away with the fear of smell and UV effects, but noise is totally up to the individual.
I remember our camo classes back in USMC training. Factors that help you detect the enemy or game included movement, shape, color and shine but the first thing the eye picks out is movement. That will give you or a game animal or predator away faster than anything else. A person standing still in the middle of an open field will often not be noticed even but a chipmunk running in heavy leaves will quickly be spotted.
One of the hardest animals to spot in Africa is the leopard. What gives away a leopard hiding in the trees is typically his swishing his tail like a big old housecat. He could lay on a limb all day and never be seen but when a game animal or something comes by he instinctively starts swishing that tail and gives away his presence.
Did you know when diving where dangerous sharks are present you should always dive with a partner and be sure to carry a dive knife?
If dangerous sharks appear and look to be threatening there are several schools of thought on how to use your dive knife effectively to repel them. Some divers will tell you to try to stab the shark in the eyes as his weakest point. Others will tell you to stab or pound on the shark's sensitive nose to chase him away. Still others will tell you to stab the shark in the belly and eviscerate him as he swims by.
Since sharks have a very low sensitivity to and a high threshold for pain poking him in the eye and pounding on his nose does not really work very well. Also since sharks are very fast and aqile swimmers and have very tough skin it is very difficult to penetrate especially with a dive knife which are typically made of very poor quality steel and are generally very dull.
The only tried and true method proven to work to protect yourself from an angry and aggressive shark with a dive knife is to stab your dive buddy in the leg and swim away from the feeding frenzy while the sharks are distracted.
I have no desire to venture into the sharks' grocery store, so I won't need a dive knife. A bayonet for my Garand, on the other hand...
I worked in Cameroon on a project where we built a 650 mile 30" diameter oil pipeline terminating in a Floating Storage Operation in the Atlantic Ocean. I asked my co-worker, a former sea captain, who was in charge of the shore to ship operations if he was a scuba diver. He replied "I have spent my whole life trying to stay on top of the ocean and I'm not about to change now."
Did you know the recommended method to protect yourself from sharks and barracudas and such when spearfishing is to attach the fish your spear to a buoy towed or tethered a good distance from the diver? If a shark or other large predator fish is attracted to the smell of the blood in the water he goes to the fish instead of the diver giving the diver time to abandon his catch and safely clear the area.
When I was diving I normally used a special ring much like a giant safety pin designed to hold the fish. I would open the pin, unscrew the point of my spear which had barbs a couple of inches long, and slide the fish directly off on to the ring then close it to keep the fish secure. Since I did most of my spearfishing at night my shots were very close and very short distances - like gigging frogs - and I shot most of my sleeping/blinded fish through the eye. If the fish was not shot through the eye I would string him up through the gills or poke a hole through the bottom lip and slide the ring out through his open mouth.
And you lived to tell about these adventures !
Yes but I have shed a few body parts along the way. :D Did you know you should never liplock a porcupine puffer fish like you do a bass? If I'd remembered that they eat coral I could have saved myself a thumbnail and a lot of pain and some temporary embarrassment. I assure you I got over the embarrassment a lot quicker than the lost thumbnail.
I once was trying to get a skunk out from under someones' deck and got impatient as I wasn't having any luck. I was determined to get it in one visit so, knowing the risks, I reached in and grabbed a hind leg, snatched it out and tossed it in the yard. Then I rushed over to it and humanely dispatched it. He managed to reach around and bite me in the process when I grabbed him. I washed the bite and it healed fine. I was vaccinated for rabies. Another time I was trying to transfer a feral cat from one cage trap to another and got careless and it nearly escaped. Determined not to let that happen I grabbed it with bare hands and that cat bit my forearm HARD. I got a nasty infection and ended up going to the doctor for antibiotics. Cat bites are not fun. The cat did not get away.
Our son caught a skunk and brought it home to show our Norwegian exchange student who had returned a couple years later for a visit. As he walked between the fences the dogs barking on both sides agitated it and it started to climb up it's tail which Sean was holding. He put it down on the walk to get a better grip and it sprayed the yard and stunk it up then bit him on the finger and got away so he had to get the Rabies shots. One a week in a different quadrant intra muscular till done. After insurance we still had to pay $800. I told my wife not to be too hard on him as I had showed him how to catch them. That set her off as he had already told her "Aw Mom, Dad will understand." So she chewed on both of us.
Then 5-6 months later Sean and his buddies came home from fishing late one night. I heard the dogs bark then a coon squall. Sean stepped in the door and all 3 baby coons he had caught crossing the road at the lake got loose at the same time. Neele (Nee Lah) our German exchange student that year, ran to her room and locked the door. I grabbed one, Sean grabbed one and his buddy Josh grabbed the third. By then my wife and daughter were standing in the middle of the sofa and my wife said "Sean, you're gonna mess around and we're all going to get rabies!" His immediate but ill-thought out answer was "Not me. I've had my shots." He should had kept quiet or just apologized.
(I hope some more experienced trappers chime in here.) Did you know the two main techniques of skinning fur bearing animals for their pelts is what I have always heard called "Casing" and "Boxing"? Think of casing as removing a pullover shirt and boxing as removing a button up shirt. From what I have seen on shows where lots of trappers skin their catch, casing seems to be more popular.
When casing a fur first the animal is hung head down and the skin is "ringed" at the ankles cutting just through the skin. Next the skin is cut from one ankle to the other along both legs and under the tail. The tail is either split and skinned or cut through and the bone is pulled out. The skin is loosened around the legs which are pulled free then the hide is pulled down over the belly then the chest and finally the head and front feet. The front feet are either cut off or ringed at the "wrists" and the skin is pulled free. The skin is pulled over head carefully cutting it free at the ears and around the lips till it pulls off. Once removed the skin is pulled down onto a skinning frame made of wire or an appropriately sized and shaped board, that looks something like an ironing board, with the flesh side out. The skin is salted and fleshed (excess fat and any pieces of meat left are removed) and hung up to dry. Once dried the skin is removed from the frame/board and inverted with the fur side out and sold to the buyers.
When boxing a fur the same basic procedure is followed except the skin is cut up the middle of the belly and the fur is nailed to a board or holes are punched along the edges of the fur and stings are run through the holes and the hide is stretched tight, fleshed and dried. Beavers are boxed hides and when stretched they are basically a round or oval shape.
Most people skinning a field dressed deer or elk or such are basically boxing the hide. Since I hunt on my own property and am minutes away from my skinning rack I do not field dress and case the hides on my deer.
For those of you who have read the FoxFire series there is a tall tale in there about a family who had a locally famous hound dog named Old Blue who was so smart the owner could take down a skinning board and show it to Old Blue and he would run off to the swamp by himself and usually within an hour or so he would come back with a possum that size. One day the husband came home and asked his wife "Where's Old Blue - he didn't meet me when I came home." His wife replied "Well our new neighbor, Myra Wilson, came over about noon to borrow my iron and ironing board and when I got the ironing board out Old Blue jumped up and ran around us looking at it then started whining and whimpering and ran off into the woods and I haven't seen him since." The story goes Old Blue was never seen again.
:D
Nearly all furbearers are case skinned, that is what the buyers insist on. Yes, beaver are skinned open. The fur should be clean and dry before skinning. A lot of fur is spoiled by waiting too long to skin it and not keeping it cold or fleshing and stretching it in a timely manner. Only hides of deer,moose, cattle, etc. should be salted, not furs. After skinning, furs can be frozen or fleshed to remove fat and tissue from the skin and placed on a drying wire frame or board. Anyone who is serious about learning this should try to get with an experienced trapper and/or visit a fur buyer and ask for help to learn. Smart fur buyers will help so that you don't mess up your furs and then want them to pay you a good price for them. Doing a really good job handling furs takes experience. Some guys can flesh and stretch 100+ raccoons a day. Partly due to covid, furs prices are not good right now.
KEC,
Thanks for the input. I was hoping for input for someone with experience on this. The only furs I ever actually sold were a few deer hides, a few coon hides (Back before the price dropped more than it was worth to skin one), a nice road killed mink and a small coyote I shot while deer hunting. I did not stretch or flesh or otherwise process them. I just cased the hides then froze them till I could take them to my local fur buyer. I used to live trap a few nuisance coons around my barn and my deer feeders but the last 2 seasons they were not worth it. I caught and killed or relocated 7-8 coons and a couple of possums off the front porch but never skinned a one due to stupid low prices. Same with deer hides. They never brought much but I always figured I had already skinned it to get the meat but after last year it got to the point it was not even worth the hassle to store them till I was traveling to near where my buyer could get them.
I am a big fan of Tom Oar on the Mountain Men TV series. He is the old guy out in Montana who traps then processes the hides into end products getting many times the value of the raw fur.
Did you know the puffer fish, when threatened, inflates to several times his normal size? If he can hide in a crack in the coral that makes it hard for predators to get him out. If in the open water it makes him very hard to swallow. There are unicorn puffers that have rows of spines all over their bodies that lay flat when deflated but stick out when inflated.
One night I came across a large porcupine puffer fish in the Red Sea near Jeddah Saudi Arabia while diving there. When I grabbed him he swelled up to the size of a basketball and with all the spines out so I could not grab him. Watching him breath in and out I had an epiphany and grabbed his bottom lip like a bass to lip lock him which should be in the Did something dumb thread because he crunched down. I forgot they eat coral as their normal diet. He crushed my thumb, the nail turned blue and eventually fell off.
I wonder what the difference is between these puffer fish orf which you speak and the blow fish I used to catch by the bucket fulls when I was a kid (saltwater)? Those fish would blow up when you tickled their bellies and had teeth like a rabbit, so if they ever bit down on you they made quite the slot in your finger. The mouths were small though. I haven't thought about them in decades.
Tom,
I suspect they may be the same thing as the puffer fish I saw had buck teeth similar to what you describe. One smaller version had a mask like a raccoon and I believe it was even called a raccoon puffer fish. Some had spines and were the porcupine puffers while others were smooth. You see the dried inflated ones for decoration in Chinese restaurants.
Howard, did you eat any of the puffer fish?
I think it can kill you quite suddenly, if not done right.
JJ
Apparently there are over 600 fish around the world in this family with similar characteristics. The poisonous effects vary with the specific fish. I was 12 years old or so when I was sent out in a rowboat for the day to "catch all the blowfish you can for Aunt Julia and she'll make us a nice dinner" which I did. We would gut and skin them and wind up with a piece of meat that looked a lot like a chicken drumstick. She would bread and deep fry them. I could eat them until I was sick they were so good. (I generally hate fish, but a Aunt Julia was the best game cook I have ever known, she made a moose meat fondu that was just heaven on a plate). Aunt Julia could also make a killer deep fired eel but I did not enjoy the catching so much as a young boy. We would spear them off the front of a special built boat late at night. I would sit in the back as they squirmed all over the deck and kept my knees next to my ears. We'd go out when the water was calm, around 10pm, and get back around 1am, then cleaning began....
JJ,
No, I never did anything but mess with them and paid the price on at least 2 different occasions. I understand there is a poison gland of some kind in there the sushi chef's have to remove. I do not know if cooking would neutralize it or not. I understand to get a master sushi chef certification the chef has to prepare a certain type of puffer fish and eat it. I do not think repeating the course is an option. ::)
The second occasion I mentioned above was on a night dive at a private pier near Jeddah that belonged to the owner of all the Pizza Huts and Popeye's Fried Chicken places in Saudi Arabia. He had given me unrestricted access to dive there. I was diving with my dive buddy and his 13 y/o daughter and near the end of our dive I encountered a big, smooth puffer fish and started messing with him. Since he did not have the spines of a porcupine puffer I was able to really mess with him. He had blown up to about the size of a basketball and I was dribbling him up and down in the water. Finally I turned him upside down which he enjoyed about as much as a cat does. When I released him he righted himself in the water and turned to face me and I could actually see the angry look in his eyes as he charged and grabbed me in the left upper chest and came as close to giving me a male mastectomy as I ever hope to experience. I had on a thin (1 mil) wet suit and my whole left pecs turned purple and were a sickly yellow for several weeks afterward. It eventually healed and I wish I could say I learned my lesson. When they went to leave Jeddah, Joanna, now an ER doctor in Greenville NC, gave me a paper mache puffer fish I have on my mantel to this day which reminds me of that dive every time I see it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2442.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1617500151)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2441.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1617500150)
This momento given to me by a then 13 y/o dive partner remains one of my treasured possessions. Her dad has since passed but the memories of that night dive at Shaker Pier in The Red Sea near Jeddah live as long as this simple puffer fish survives.
Tom,
I had to go get a bib just reading about Aunt Julia.
Big puffer in the lagoon at Rarotonga. About 2 ft long. And no I didn't mess with it. :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/DSCF9528.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1617515142)
These guys (Picasso Trigger) on other hand will actively chase you (and bite) if you get into territory. Luckily they are only up to about 12" long, but they have a much bigger attitude than that.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/DSCF9542s~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1617515353)
Ian,
I am well familiar with the Picasso trigger fish who were popular in the Red Sea too. I did not notice and swam too close to a big one's nest and the first sign I had of her was when she came nipped the end of my fins. They are very aggressive.
Tom mentioned Aunt Julia frying eels and such earlier so we can talk about them a bit. Did you know that a common eel most of us catch in the rivers and lakes have only a backbone and no ribs or such? This is one reason the old timers used to love to catch one or two to feed the kids. They could fry the eel and the meat would slide right off on to their plate.
We used to catch them on catfish hooks baited with cut bait which was one of the reason's my dad quit fishing with anything but soap for catfish bait. The only thing he would catch on soap was channel and blue catfish and no eels, gars, turtles, mudfish (Bowfins), etc that he was not going to keep. I never ate any eels but I skinned a few and cut them up for catfish bait and they were very pretty white meat that looked very much like a channel catfish. We hated to catch an eel because they are very slimy and will twist round and round on a catfish line. Sometimes they will free themselves doing this as will a channel catfish. They difference would be you would see an empty hook with the line twisted with a catfish but if was an eel that had escaped you would have a foot or so of slime on the line above the hook. The truth be told we hated to catch them because we were scared of them because they looked so much like a snake.
One trick I learned to skin one was throw it in the sand. It would roll and get completely covered in sand and you could hold it without getting the slime on your hands. I'd make a cut behind the head like skinning a frog, grab the cut skin in my fishermen's pincers and pull and the skin would come right off just like skinning a big fat rattlesnake. The best way to get slime off your hands is to grab a handy handful of Spanish moss and rub vigorously with it and it will peel the slime right off. If you don't live near where Spanish moss grows you need to move further south, learn to talk southern and eat grits.
I came home from a one year tour with the 4th Marine Regiment from Okinawa Japan Christmas of 1986 via Osan Korea and spent a couple of days sightseeing and shopping there. I found the Koreans eat a lot of eels. Later we had a Korean contractor in Saudi and found they ate lots of dried or smoked eel. In the markets of Osan eelskin leather products were very popular with wallets, purses and belts being the most popular. It was very soft and pliable leather and they dyed it into some really pretty colors. Of course you had a seam about every 4-6 inches as that was apparently as wide as they could stretch the eel.
My thrasher terminology is likely ammis but eel skins were essential for harvesting grains. They formed the connection twixt handle and flail on a thrasher because they are so tough. When I took over my house in Holland from its original owners who'd farmed there for three hundred years, not that that mattered because the farm never was mechanized and relied on horses up till the last farmer retired in the 1970s, there were two skins plastered to a wall in the barn. Looking close I could make out a row of residue in the form of the drying skins across the wall. One of the skins remains, the other I mounted and framed as a memento. Other than that eels mostly disgust me and I steer clear.
When I was a boy, my Grandaddy would take me down to the big creek that was a tributary to the Ocmulgee River below Macon. As there were no dams between us at that point and the Georgia coast some 180 miles away, the eels would come into the river from the Atlantic Ocean and come upstream to spawn in the tributary creek. We would catch them on limb lines or small bamboo poles cut from switch cane stuck into the bank. He would skin and fry them right there on the creek bank. They were very good. Had there own unique taste, not fishy at all. Those are very fond memories for me.
Grandpas are "unique" in what and how they teach us the things that we learn from them, at least when we have the patience to sit still long enough.
Did you know that many fish lay their eggs according to moon phases? Where I grew up in N. Fla bluegills would start bedding around April and would be on their nest every full moon up through September. They liked sandy gravel patches and would form shallow depressions they would guard vigorously. If you could find them on the nest and ease up and drop and worm in the nest you were certain to catch a big old bull bluegill because he would move the bait of just to clean out the nest. Most times you would not see your float woggle, it would just slowly line away from the nest.
I remember a neighbor who had lost an arm to a railroad accident who would sit on a 5 gallon bucket in about a foot of water on a sandy point on a big borrow pit made by pumping the sand and gravel out. Mr. Brown would use a long cane pole and throw it as far as he could reach to a spot in about 2' of water. When he'd catch a fish he'd simply lift his pole behind him to his wife who would remove the fish rebait and tell him when ready and he'd repeat. He could not use a rod and reel to reach the spot so he improvised.
That old man would keep us in stitches talking about hunting or fishing - both of which he was real good at. He'd tell us how hard it was to bait a hook with only one arm because he said he had to hold with either the bait or the hook in his teeth. He said minnows were too wiggly and hard to hold and you'd swallow one pretty often if not real careful. Crickets were too scratchy and the legs would break off and get caught between your teeth and worms were too soft and wiggly and it was easy to bust one and they tasted awful.
:D
Quote from: WDH on April 04, 2021, 07:54:48 PMeels would come into the river from the Atlantic Ocean and come upstream to spawn in the tributary creek.
The mature eels do not come into fresh water to spawn, instead they are swimming out to salt water to spawn somewhere in the Sargasso Sea. After spawning at sea, glass eels return to fresh water and swim upstream to lakes & ponds to grow into elvers and eventually mature eels.
There is big business in Maine to catch net/trap the glass eels for sale to Japan, who's eel aquaculture was wiped out by 2011 Tsunami. Many fisherman made 100's of thousands of dollars in this business as it was so sudden, it was unregulated at first. They were getting $1200-2000/lb from Japan for these eels.
Inside Maine's Multimillion-Dollar World of Eel Trafficking (https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/glass-eel-elver-trafficking-fishing-unagi)
They need continuous fresh supply as the eels will not spawn in fresh water or in captivity of a salt water pen.
JJ
Quote from: Tacotodd on April 05, 2021, 01:26:21 AM
Grandpas are "unique" in what and how they teach us the things that we learn from them, at least when we have the patience to sit still long enough.
Todd,
Did you ever read the FoxFire series of books? A teacher up in the Appalachian Mountains near the intersection of NC, TN & GA conducted a project to collect and record the old ways of doing things. Topics included digging a well, building a log cabin, skinning and butchering a hog, tanning hides, etc. The source for the information were the old timers in the community and the researchers were their grandkids. The old timers were very happy to show and explain the details of each of the chosen topics and a colleteral benefit identified during the process was that the kids got a much better appreciation and respect for their grandparents. It started pretty small and just kept growing. They recorded the info in a book, then another and another. The last count I had I think it was up to a dozen or so books. They are entertaining, educational and a very good reference source for people interested in local history, handcrafts and related skills.
The well is feeling a little dry this morning and I know this should probably be in the health and safety thread but Did you know malaria remains one of the top killers in the world? There are several types of malaria common in Africa, Asia and South America. Malaria is spread by mosquitos biting an infected person then buzzing over to someone else and biting them. When Mozzie bites he she first injects and anticoagulant to start breaking down and thin the blood so she (As with so many dangerous animals in the world it is the female who is dangerous ;)) can suck it up into her proboscis. When she injects the anticoagulant she also injects a small amount of the infected blood and the bacteria take root and begin to grow and multiply exponentially in the new host. (This is the same way heartworms are spread in canines here in America.)
There are several ways to prevent and several other ways to reduce the risk of Malaria. One of our on site doctors may chime in with corrections or updates on the medicines but methods to prevent malaria I took when working in Africa, Afghanistan/Iraq and visiting in the Amazon include:
1. Stay away from everyone else with Malaria - if there is no infected host for the mosquito to bite you are perfectly safe.
2. Stay away from all mosquitos - if there is nothing to transfer the disease you are safe. This is easier said than done if you are in a warm climate.
3. Don't let the mosquitos bite - also easier said than done but boots, long sleeve shirts and long pants, mosquito repellent on your skin and clothes, mosquito bed and head nets, etc. are techniques people use to keep from getting bit.
4. Take medication to stop the bacteria before it can start growing - there are several kinds including Larium (Weekly dose), Malerone (Daily and expensive), Doxicycline (I am not sure about the recommended dose here. We took 250 mg/day in Afghanistan but the company fed it to us as a general preventive for other maladies too so that may not be the correct/normal dose.). With any of these preventive meds you have to start well in advance of visiting the affected area and continue for a certain amount of time after you leave so you have enough in your bloodstream to protect you any time the bacteria is present.
Quinine used to be and may still be used as a treatment/preventive. Quine present in the Sable Palm (Swamp cabbage/Heart of Palm), which was a staple food item for the Seminole Indians is one of the reasons given that they did not get malaria.
We had several co-workers who died from Falciparum malaria on our project in Cameroon. They all died at home in the USA. They would go home on leave and get flu like symptoms and go see their local doctor who had not seen malaria since he took his parasitology class in college and they evidently forgot to tell the doctor they were working in the tropics. The doctors would treat them for the flu and the disease just kept spreading until it was too late. Any hole in the wall clinic in Africa would have assumed malaria and started proper treatment immediately.
Anyway if you plan a visit or vacation to any warm tropical area check with the CDC site to see if malaria is a risk and start your medication as required in advance before going.
Did you know Sulphur can be used to help repel various insects, ticks and chiggers? You can buy small boxes of "Flowers of Sulphur" at most pharmacies. My grandfather spent most of his life working in the woods girdling cypress, hunting for food, plume hunting, gator hunting and finally as one of the early game wardens for the state of Florida. He would sprinkle powdered Sulphur into his shoes and it would be absorbed by the skin of his feet. He'd drop a drop of syrup into Sulphur and roll it into a ball and swallow that to help get more into his system. Across the line in southern Ala from where I grew up in N. Fla a community of Pollard Ala had a community artesian well and many of the residents would stop and get a drink. It was high in Sulphur and when visiting near dusk I remember we would be slapping mosquitoes like crazy while the people who lived there and drank the local water did not seem to be affected. I remember as a kid when we'd get into a batch of chiggers my dad would feed us Sulphur Cream of Tartar tablets which seemed to help repel them.
I'm wondering if @mike_belben (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=33722) saw that.
I went back and re-visited Mikes post again. He was asking about a spray to kill ticks and chiggers it seems on the bushes and grass along a walking path. I doubt the Sulphur would kill them but it might help repel them. I don't know how long it would linger in the area or how much it would take to cover as much area as Mike needs. I think you can buy 50 lb bags and such commercially but don't know if feed stores would handle it. I don't know of any harm it should cause the plant life. We always used Sulphur as a repellent not as an insecticide or such.
If you check your feed supplier you will see yellow salt blocks which are salt with the Sulphur mixed in so evidently it helps repel flies and maybe horseflies and such from cattle and other livestock. It make even be a wormer medication of sorts. It also is a good indicator it does not harm the animals. I know sulpha drugs have been used for medicine for a long time but do not know how it works. Maybe one of our doctors can chime in and elucidate (and help clear things up).
Now you're in @doc henderson (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=41041) territory.
we had a counselor at camp brown who always was chewing on match heads from paper military matches. His dad had told him to do it. He was not the most pointed tool in the box so we worried that it was not a good idea ;). I have posted before about use of sulfur. it is a micro nutrient for plants and animals. (I will see if I can find it). Bactrim has a sulfur group and is therefore called a sulfa medication. great for urinary infection. sulfur can bond to itself, so can attach two bigger molecules like two magnetic objects. your mucus has disulfide bonds. we use mucomyst as an aerosol to break up mucus to provide another sulfur group so it is not so stringy. It is also used for Tylenol overdose to keep the better enzyme breakdown pathway working. acetylcysteine. used to have to drink it and it smelled like rotten eggs, but now have an iv preparation. so it wont kill you in moderation. can cause nausea. and may not be as effective as deet.
Did you know you can load 4 full sized camels in the back of a full sized long bed Chevy pick up? My last assignment in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia was just on the other side of the Bin Laden Memorial Park (The park was dedicated to Ossama's Dad) from the camel souk. I would go over there and talk with the Bedouins there and watch them milk the camels and load them for transport. They would sit the camel down and wrap wire between the ankles and thigh area so they could not straighten them and stand up. They would wrap a couple of slings around them and lift with a boom truck and position them in the bed of the truck to be transported. Camels are amazing animals and can transport a huge load across soft sand and they will get fat of forage that would starve a billy goat. They are also one of the world's most obnoxious beasts and will bite and spit on you.
I would give my dog 2 garlic tablets with her food to keep ticks off of her.
Seemed to work, I had more ticks on me than I found on her, but she had bad breath.
steve_smiley
Quote from: doc henderson on April 08, 2021, 08:47:09 AMused to have to drink it and it smelled like rotten eggs
So, my well on my cabin property has a huge excess of iron but also "sulfur fixing bacteria" which makes the water smell like rotten eggs a little. The taste is somewhat metallic (duh), well, actually
really metallic! Maybe I
should drink this water to keep the mosquitoes at bay! Was planning on just using it for showers/dishes.
I think you can infuse bicarb to raise the Ph and get rid of the bacteria and smell.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on April 08, 2021, 10:01:36 AM
Quote from: doc henderson on April 08, 2021, 08:47:09 AMused to have to drink it and it smelled like rotten eggs
So, my well on my cabin property has a huge excess of iron but also "sulfur fixing bacteria" which makes the water smell like rotten eggs a little. The taste is somewhat metallic (duh), well, actually really metallic! Maybe I should drink this water to keep the mosquitoes at bay! Was planning on just using it for showers/dishes.
I would verify it is safe to drink before drinking it. The health risks might be worse than the skeeters. If you have problems with mosquitoes and ticks and chiggers it might help to drink some of it. We have had wells with iron and sulfur and it turned the clothes yellow in the wash and made strings floating in the tea water.
mmmm mmmmh. sounds good ;) :) :D
Quote from: doc henderson on April 08, 2021, 10:07:13 AM
I think you can infuse bicarb to raise the Ph and get rid of the bacteria and smell.
Don't they do that with Peroxide too?
I'm not sure what else it does but peroxide will oxidize the dissolved iron so it can be filtered. Water with dissolved iron in it can still look clear until it has access to oxygen.
I am not a well expert. someone was on last month and spoke to this. I do not recall the handle.
But that's still interesting about the camel. I had no idea. They are supposed to be very smart as well. But of course, it's from a movie, so who knows(rhetorical)?
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 08, 2021, 09:44:34 AM
Did you know you can load 4 full sized camels in the back of a full sized long bed Chevy pick up? My last assignment in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia was just on the other side of the Bin Laden Memorial Park (The park was dedicated to Ossama's Dad) from the camel souk. I would go over there and talk with the Bedouins there and watch them milk the camels and load them for transport. They would sit the camel down and wrap wire between the ankles and thigh area so they could not straighten them and stand up. They would wrap a couple of slings around them and lift with a boom truck and position them in the bed of the truck to be transported. Camels are amazing animals and can transport a huge load across soft sand and they will get fat of forage that would starve a billy goat. They are also one of the world's most obnoxious beasts and will bite and spit on you.
LOL! Brings back memories of when I was in Amman, Jordan for a year back in 2004. Spent a couple of weekends in the desert riding camel. Just about ruined my back. At the time I could spend 8 hours on horseback and think nothing of it. Spent 3 hours on camel back and couldn't straighten up for 2 days. lol
I asked a Saudi co-worker one time why we would see all these 4 door pick up trucks with the men and boys in the front seat and the back seat area would be full of sheep and goats and the bed of the truck would be full of the women and girls. (They would be wrapped up in their black Abayas and wearing veils.) My Saudi friend sagely told me "You don't have to tie the women and girls in the back to keep them from jumping out."
Its pretty hard to argue with that kind of reasoning.
I'm going to have to keep this in mind if I ever decide to sell my Chevy pickup. What a great selling point !
Yes, it is a definite selling point. You can only get 2 big camels in a long wheelbase toyota.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 08, 2021, 10:29:12 AMI would verify it is safe to drink before drinking it.
The water was tested and it is indeed safe to drink. The iron level is "above the level where it affects the taste" but not unsafe. Tested for all sorts of stuff and passed with flying colors - except for the iron. The water is even somewhat soft - not much calcium and one other thing that I don't recall the name right now. My sister had a place that had high iron. Just NEVER use bleach. It causes it to stain clothes big time!
Quote from: Hilltop366 on April 08, 2021, 11:29:41 AMWater with dissolved iron in it can still look clear until it has access to oxygen.
Yep, comes out of the well crystal clear. Let it sit and it turns brownish and it settles to the bottom of jugs.
Did you know a newborn camel looks kind of like a 5'-6' long fuzzy snake with long legs? The ones I saw did not look like they were over 6" diameter at birth. They are born ugly and do not improve much with age.
bout like us Howard?. :D :D :D, except our girth exceeds 6 inches. :)
Doc,
Don't tell me I am out of shape! Round is a shape. :D
I should have quoted the born ugly and do not improve much with age. we are round just not under 6 inches. ;) :).
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 09, 2021, 10:04:27 PM
They are born ugly and do not improve much with age.
:D :D
There has been a lot of discussion lately here on wells and well water and such. Did you know one of the biggest health hazards world wide is poor quality drinking water? One of the first things many NGOs and Benevolent associations try to do to help people in undeveloped or developing countries (Whatever the current PC buzzword for them may be) is to drill or dig wells for community use.
Water is purified by several methods including the following methods. Community water systems often use a combination of several of these:
Filtration - various media including ceramic and carbon filters remove the dangerous pathogens. Some natural substances like sand and limestone and such filter the water. One advantage of ceramic is only items smaller than the acceptable level diameter pass through. When dirty, the filter plugs up and no water passes through. In 1986 we returned to Cameroon and trekked in to visit with the Kouma tribesmen and we took a filter we had bought at an outfitter in Charlotte NC. We'd put one end in the stream and pump the water through a ceramic filter to get our drinking water. The trek was too far to carry that much water weight with us so we needed to generate it along the route.
Heat - boiling water is a common technique to kill bacteria and viruses. As an extra measure of safety we often boiled our filtered water to kill any virus which the filter might have missed.
Chemical treatment - Iodine, chlorine, etc have long been chemicals added to kill bacteria. We visited the Amazon in Peru and our guide used Iodine to treat our drinking water on the trip.
UV light - UV can kill many pathogens but often it is used with a filter system because too much turbidity in the water prevents the UV light from killing various "bugs" in the water. UV improperly used can give a false sense of security as you think you are drinking safe water but may not be.
People build up immunity to the "bugs" in their water but are not immune to new ones. A tribesman in a remote village in Africa drinking very sketchy water that would kill one of us might come to our home and drink the well water we drink every day and get sick from it. And you can lose your immunity if not constantly exposed to it. I had an uncle in the USAF (Yeah - I know pretty embarrassing for an old Marine but it is true) who was stationed in Iceland. He came home to central Fla after his tour and went fishing on the Suwannee River and had been dreaming of a good drink of that limestone water he had drunk all his life. He grabbed a PA tobacco can and dipped up a couple of swallows and filled his craving - and it nearly killed him. He had lost all his immunity to the critters in it that he had as a kid.
Very interesting about the built up immunity. What about bleach?
Interesting stuff. I don't recall ever getting sick from water but have sipped from risky water holes before :D
If I'm in the woods and see a small stream I'll drink out of that no problem untreated, been doing it since I was a child :D. I don't know ANY science behind if it's safe but my "theory" is the water gets filtered thru moss, rocks all sorts of things and if you sip the surface of the current that's where it's clean since sediment sinks. I'm sure you already knew this just thinking out loud here for discussion ;D.
if you do ever get sick, it will prob. cure you of this. It is not like it will make you sick every time unless you get a load of organism. lots of lore like moving water is safe. if you dig a hole nearby standing water and it fills with water, it will be safe. we all get a sip of lake water when skiing or swimming. You do not drink the water or use ice in Mexico. At Philmont we filtered and boiled our water to make food. for drinking we filtered and added tablets. on a canoe trip we carefully got water from the river to make chicken and noodles. boiled the water first then added a few drops of bleach. In college I got salmonella typhimurium from my fridge, and was not the same for months.
I had no idea about the dug hole near a water body, makes sense how it would be more clean! Will remember that one.
lots of neat survival stuff. a big tarp that get condensation over night, and collect the "dew" by manipulating the plastic tarp. can only live so long without water. If you are in the wilderness with N/V/D you will die sooner.
Quote from: HemlockKing on April 11, 2021, 05:34:42 AMI don't know ANY science behind if it's safe but my "theory" is the water gets filtered thru moss, rocks all sorts of things and if you sip the surface of the current that's where it's clean since sediment sinks.
Out here, it is assumed that ALL surface water has Giardia since there is so much cattle grassing on public land. My wife and daughter got Giardia from eating at an "authentic" Chinese food establishment off the beaten track in San Francisco. We were the only English speaking people there. Either that, or the locals had built up an immunity to what they served there!
My theory on "bugs" is I eat just about everything leftover in the fridge. If it hasn't popped the top off the Tupperware (just bulging a little), its all good! I have a pretty high tolerance to questionable food.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on April 11, 2021, 10:25:47 AM
Quote from: HemlockKing on April 11, 2021, 05:34:42 AMI don't know ANY science behind if it's safe but my "theory" is the water gets filtered thru moss, rocks all sorts of things and if you sip the surface of the current that's where it's clean since sediment sinks.
Out here, it is assumed that ALL surface water has Giardia since there is so much cattle grassing on public land. My wife and daughter got Giardia from eating My theory on "bugs" is I eat just about everything leftover in the fridge. If it hasn't popped the top off the Tupperware (just bulging a little), its all good! I have a pretty high tolerance to questionable food.
:D :D As long as no mushrooms or anything is growing from the leftovers right?
On a long spring hike in the wilds of Alaska, I took a chance on a drink from a beautiful clear running little stream running down the valley. Tasted great. Then I noticed the dead and rotting winter kill moose 50' upstream. Moose infused water. Tastes great, less filling.
Todd,
There are recipes out there on how much bleach to use to purify water. When we first got married and I was assigned to Okinawa and we lived in the ville the water pressure was erratic and when low crud flowed back into the water system so we were told how many drops of bleach per gallon. Seems like a teaspoon for 5 gallons was one guideline. When I mentioned chlorine I was including bleach as a purifier. The various survival reality shows include many of these steps such as the well near a stream to help filter water. Not 100% but much better than flowing water. I think giardia (I believe that is the one called Beaver fever) can be removed by simply filtering through a fine cloth as they are a pretty big organism. There are plants and vines that you can cut that contain or drip pure water or refill the stump with water. Taking charcoal left from the fire and crushing it and filling a hollow tube, like bamboo with a layer of sand and letting the water filter through is one technique. Putting a clear bottle of water in the sun and letting the UV rays purify it is another. Using several of these together is even safer like boiling iodized or chlorinated water. Contaminated water remains one of the world's biggest health hazards. If you are going into a remote area you can buy filtration systems like the one I mentioned or you can buy purification tablets. We used to take powdered Gatorade to add both for the electrolytes we were losing and to kill the taste of treated water.
Did you know other cultures (OK - maybe just different individuals) have developed a different taste for various foods? We trekked in to camp with and visit the Kouma people in the Atlanka Mountains on the border with Cameroon and Nigeria. On the way out we stopped for a rest break and my wife and I broke out some small boxes of raisins and were snacking on them. My local guide for the trip, Abdou, asked what they were so I explained they were dried grapes, etc and gave him a box. He tossed a handful in his mouth like we had been doing and chomped down a couple of times and started gagging and spitting out the remnants, rinsed out his mouth with drinking water and spit it out a couple of times then calmly went back to eating his termites.
Never been downstream of a moose but have met a dead deer in the water a couple of times after camping and cooking downstream the night before. It's surprising how much sketchy water is out there. Giardia takes a heathy period at a rolling boil to do in. Very often travelling around building we were getting different water or were the first ones to use a new well. It wasn't uncommon to get the green apple quickstep for a few days as my system adjusted to the new flora. Some wells I decided it was better to buy water and a time or two the test results came back not so lovely after we had been drinking it for quite awhile. There's a couple of commercial places that somehow pass that I would never eat in, wells that go turbid after a rain (no surface water there ::)) and cross connects in old work. Pretty much all municipal water systems have leaks. As long as the pressure stays positive treated water is leaving the system so no health worries. When the pressure drops like in a power outage then the soil water can enter the system and bring whatever it has been in contact with back into the pipes, all depending that can be not so good for a body. Generally if water or squeezings will make beer or wine it is safe, that is where what to us seems like heavy consumption comes from in some cultures, hard cider was the drink of choice for colonists here.
We live 90 some odd miles north of where my inlaws lived just south of Houston. I soon learned to take bottled water with me, as drinking their water would lead to a day of quick step. Cooked food, no, ice in scotch, no, just straight water.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/3612/DSCN0521~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1320196222)
Pumping from a stream.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN0696.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1327002413)
using this pump and then
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN0694.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1327007708)
using the above shown UV "light" to further purify our water. After we had been there several days Marty was walking upstream and noticed a big cow pie. Yup, upstream from our pumping location and no, we did not get sick.
Yep, same company if not same model we used for filter pump. Mine has a ceramic filter that removes all dangerous pathogens.
When my Dad returned from WWII he got a job at a tractor company. He made deliveries and made repairs out in the field. He had one story where he had worked all morning on a tractor left out in the back 40 from the end of the last season. He got it running and drove it back to the man's house. He was parched from being out in the sun all morning and went directly to the well, drew a bucket of water and put the dipper in the bucket and pulled out a big dead rat.
He said, "boy all of a sudden I was no longer thirsty!"
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 11, 2021, 08:59:39 PMYep, same company if not same model we used for filter pump. Mine has a ceramic filter that removes all dangerous pathogens.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN0693.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1327002411)
Here it is disassembled. The ceramic filter is seen in the top right.
Did you know that one way prickly pear cactus spreads is by the pads breaking off into various animals which then transport them to a new location and then pull the pad free and it takes root in the new site starting a new plant. They have very long, sharp, barbed thorns and can be very painful and dangerous to people and animals. My grandfather had a piece of land that had a bunch on them in Central Fla and when deer hunters using dogs jumped a deer in the area the deer would often deliberately run through them. The dogs following would run into the prickly pear patch and it would shut them down that day and until the hunter could remove them and they could heal up which usually took several days.
MM I have the same one, and we used another that held 4 L and went through a filter by gravity, for enough water to make a meal for the group (13). water is heavy, so you cannot always carry it with you in large quantities. when we made food, we boiled the water well after filtering. then added the dehydrated stuff. The wide mouth Katadyn can attach directly to the top of a water bottle (Nalgene) and then we added a purification tab. if you waited several hours to use that water for drinking, there was no bad taste.
Did you know prickly pear cactus is good to eat too? I first ate prickly pear (with a roasted little javelina) when camping near the big bend of the Rio Grande. Now I have some growing on my place and harvest occasionally.
Just don't eat the spines.
O U C H !!!🤬👿😄😱
Yes, doc, we pumped directly into the Nalgene water bottles and then inserted the UV light thingy for the specified amount of time. No tablets. We then used it for our freeze dried meals and also poured it directly into our "Camelbaks for the next day's water.
We used and drank "cow pie" water for 10 days with no ill effects.
The streams we used as a source were plenty sketchy too and the filter worked fine for us. Weight of the water was the very reason we bought and used it as we'd have had to have hired 2-3 extra porters to carry enough safe water in to see us through in the remote areas we were visiting. Every day we could just generate the next days water and stay as long as we liked and we were carrying a device that weighed a couple of pounds instead of carrying 100 lbs or more and limiting our stay to the amount of our water supply.
Did you know the first fruit trees in my area of WV to bloom are Blackheart (Wild sweet) cherries, followed almost immediately by plums, then apples? Actually, this year I have a peach tree that beat them all to the bloom by nearly a week. The cherries will start to ripen in late May and finish in early June. My Red Delicious apples will get ripe in August and September. The plums probably in June/July (I don't know as this is the first year the bush has bloomed). The odd thing is my peaches, which were first to bloom, will ripen in late September and October. Our dogwoods are just starting to bloom.
I typically actually get a crop of Blackheart cherries about every 4-5 years as most years a late freeze knocks the blooms off the tree. The last couple of years critters stole nearly all my apples. I don't know what I will be fighting to get my plums. The deer, horse and mule eat a few peaches but not enough to hurt me. My big horse can easily reach 10' high and will trample you to get an apple out of your hand but has not figured out how to eat the ones hanging 4'-5' high in his pasture. Go figure!
For sure, apples are relished by a wide range of critters. I once caught a Gray Fox on New Years' Day and its' belly was full of apples.
@KEC (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=40283) it's probably because a grey is the only canine that can NATURALLY climb trees, just not all trees.
I've no idea why the horse can't figure out how to get those apples. Curious, isn't it.
Since there is an active sister thread about bats I'll discuss them. Did you know that most bats are insectivores and are very a very helpful species but some species eat fruit and there are even the famous vampire bats down in Mexico and Central/South America that live on a diet of blood? The insect eaters locate their prey by a type of sonar. You can go out to a night light where a few bats are swooping and diving catching bugs and pitch a few pebbles up in the air and watch them swoop down and grab them. I have always thought about taking my fly rod out with a cork bug like I use for bluegills and see if I can't catch bats with it. Then I get to thinking about how I am going to get him off the hook and I really don't want to hurt them and I back off. Kind of like the first time I went frog gigging and gigged a big water snake then had to get him off the gig and realized what a dumb thing that had been to do.
In the city of Douala, Cameroon in West Africa there were a couple of big mango trees near where I lived and worked where the big fruit bats roosted. There were 10's of thousands, if not more, bats there hanging off every limb. They were about the size of crows. At sunset it looked like a tornado over the area as they left the roost and circled a few times before leaving for their favorite feeding ground. Sometimes in the middle of the day we would see them circling and knew that something had disturbed them - usually a local guy with a pellet gun shooting a few to eat.
We went back there in 2008 and I took my photographer wife over to see them and get some pictures. She has very good cameras and lenses and got plenty of good pictures. We were looking at the pictures on our computer later and my wife was looking at yawning bats and such and she suddenly asked me "What are these things on these bats?" I looked and told her "They are male bats." I never realized her equipment was good enough to tell the sex of roosted bats.
Howard, not sure it is appropriate to talk about sex and your wife's equipment! :o :o :o :) :) :) ;) ;) ;) :D :D :D
Doc,
The next time time she is wearing her "Miss Kitty" dress I will have to check with her about that. :D
I was trying to be funny, and I hope I did not offend too many. Us medical folks work and live with a different line in the sand than many. My apologies to any and all that thought my comments were over the line. all due respect to you and your wife.
Doc,
You sure haven't hurt my feelings or offended me. I still want to talk with you some time about that missing ring though. :D :D
So you do know, the post was reported, so there is a line for some. Be careful with it gents.
Howard you and I have a history of poking fun, and of course that was all I intended, but i was made aware, and I know this is a family site. i have crossed the line accidentally before and so i know that I am somewhat numb to some items of off color biological stuff. It was a play on words. Jeff as you know I love the forum, and mean no harm. thanks for the heads up, and hope you all do not loose patience with the ol doc.
Quote:
"They are male bats." I never realized her equipment was good enough to tell the sex of roosted bats.
Did you know that old timers, and maybe some still do, used to snare gar fish in the southern USA? As I understand the process they would take a thin wire and make a snare/loop, tie it to a long cane pole and place it in front of a live or cut bait under a float in shallow water in oxbow lakes and other places where gars were common and fed on the surface. I assume when they saw the gar approaching they positioned the loop in front of the fish between the gar and the bait. The slender gar would swim into the loop and the gar fisherman would pull tightening the loop. I understand it was very exciting to watch a fish caught in this fashion as they fought really hard and gars can be very large, strong fish.
Did you know that yucca (Spanish bayonet/bear grass, etc) has long been used for cordage? If you watch any of the current reality survival shows you will often see contestants using it for making string to tie together their shelters, make raised sleeping platforms, or to make snares and such. My dad used to tell us it was what folks used to hang the meat in their smokehouses when he was a kid. It is very strong and flexible. Apparently they cut it into strips about 1/4" wide and it was strong enough to hold up heavy hams or sides of bacon and such.
We used to tie things together with yucca when we were kids. This was a parallel discovery I reckon as we weren't taught this use. I tried to make cordage out of all kinds of stuff, but lacking patience and knowledge I usually failed.
In appalachia, yucca and/or daffodils growing in the woods are a common long distance indicator of an abandoned homesite or lost/forgotten graveyard. Yucca is also food.
And on gars: They are not too hard to get on a hook, but getting them to stay on with their violence and bony-headedness is tougher. Sometimes it's easier to snag them. They are good food too.
Will,
I am well aware of how hard it is to hook a gar. I can remember using a topwater bass bait with propellers on the front and back at the mouth of a slough on the Escambia River where I grew up. Gars were breaking the surface all over the place. Regularly I would see bony bill rise out of the water with my lure in between the rows of teeth. I tried repeatedly to set the hook but usually just ended up ducking and dodging as it whizzed past my ear. I never did succeed in hooking one. I think I mentioned earlier I later learned using a piece of unraveled nylon cord in a big eyed hook with a piece of cut bait or live bait set under a float a foot deep or so worked. The gar would grab the bait and get the fine cord wrapped in his teeth and I'd reel him in and often find the hook completely outside his mouth.
Most of the gars in our area were long-nosed gars. We had a few of the alligator gars but they were less common. We considered them trash fish and killed and threw them back in the water. One time Dad was catching a lot of the and had an old broken cane pole and even stuck pieces in their mouths and taped them shut with electrical tape and threw them back. He said they looked like porpoises jumping out there. I think this is why PETA denied him his membership request. ::) I never ate any but cut some up for trotline/bush hook (Limbline) bait for catfish and it was very pretty meat especially the backstraps on both sides of the backbone. They are very strong fish and hard fighters. Salt water tackle was common when fishing for really big ones and a .22 rifle or pistol was used for landing them.
While I am thinking about gars 2 come to mind from my time at Albany Ga. One was on a trotline and my wife and kids were along. It was about 4' long and probably weighed 30 lbs or more and had drowned on the line. My son was about 7-8 y/o and said " What a pretty eye. I want to take him home to show Michael (His buddy next door" so I loaded it up and he ran over and got Michael to show him. Great. Now, what to do with a 4' long, 30 lb dead gar. I realized this was not the smartest thing I had ever done! Like the old Indians did, I figured he'd make great fertilizer so I took him out in my garden patch and dug a ditch about 1' wide & 3' deep and 4' long and buried him. I did have a bumper crop of tomatoes that year.
When my daughter was about 6 I took her out and we were using ultralight tackle with 6 lb line pitching jig spinners with about a 1/6" jig head and instead of the rubber twisty tail or grub I was putting a live cricket on the hook - very effective bream bait as the spinner attracts them and they smell and readily grab the cricket, especially in running water which seems to make them more aggressive. My daughter said "I'm gonna catch me a gar". I told her no as they did not hit this kind of bait and we were in running water (Flint River below the Radium Springs boat landing) and gar were not common. I think the next cast (which was not over 10-15 feet as she was still learning) her 4' rod bowed and she said "I've got a fish" and I said "No, you're hung on a snag" then about a 5 lb fish gar surfaced and she tried to hand me the rod. I told her it was her fish so she started pulling and reeling and I grabbed the landing net and scooped him up. Once in the net he either released the bait or came unhooked but it was too late as we had him. I think I cut him up for trotline bait. I now wish I'd kept him and had him mounted. Not a big fish but a great memory.
Did you know with the warmer weather the snakes will be active again? Be careful in working around your log, lumber and slab piles. Even venomous snakes are helpful to have around so don't kill them unless they present a threat to you, your kids or pets. Most bites occur when people are messing with snakes followed by accidents when we step on one or right beside him and he strikes in defense. For those of you in the deep south where you have coral snakes remember they tend to be very docile but are very dangerous if they do bite. Remember they have a black head/snout and the old saying "Red on black - good for jack. Red on yellow - kill a fellow." So if the red rings touch black rings it is a harmless, useful king snake while if the yellow bands touch the red ones it is a coral snake. Growing up in Fla in the woods all the time we had lots of encounters and still don't know how I kept from getting bitten but I never did have the urge to catch snakes so if I saw one I either immediately killed it (Way more than I should have) or I got away from it.
I always heard "red & black, venom lack; red & yella, kill a fella"
Did you know river mussels prefer to live in gravel over sand? If you are looking for them you will find a lot more of them in a gravel bar than a clean sand bar. I don't know why but have noted this to be the case.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 17, 2021, 05:51:10 AM
Did you know with the warmer weather the snakes will be active again? Be careful in working around your log, lumber and slab piles. Even venomous snakes are helpful to have around so don't kill them unless they present a threat to you, your kids or pets. Most bites occur when people are messing with snakes followed by accidents when we step on one or right beside him and he strikes in defense. For those of you in the deep south where you have coral snakes remember they tend to be very docile but are very dangerous if they do bite. Remember they have a black head/snout and the old saying "Red on black - good for jack. Red on yellow - kill a fellow." So if the red rings touch black rings it is a harmless, useful king snake while if the yellow bands touch the red ones it is a coral snake. Growing up in Fla in the woods all the time we had lots of encounters and still don't know how I kept from getting bitten but I never did have the urge to catch snakes so if I saw one I either immediately killed it (Way more than I should have) or I got away from it.
Seen a Garter snake the other day...thankfully no dangerous snakes here, the ones here arent venomous but I have seen one swallow a frog before :)
Did you know that dogs kill snakes by grabbing and violently shaking them which damages the snakes spine to the point it kills him? Of course not all dogs are successful at this and the greatest risk is when first grabbing the snake. If they miss or are too slow they may get bitten. Jack Russel terriers are one of the most popular dogs in southern Africa because they traditionally kill snakes and that part of the world has a large selection of some really nasty snakes. (Some professional hunters also use them as leopard dogs to track down and hold a wounded leopard at bay. While a pack of large hounds can do the same thing and several working together may finish off the cat, the PH can expect to lose a hound or two. The little JR terriers are fast enough to stay out of the leopards reach and survive to hunt another day.)
In Holland the jack russell's also one of the most common dogs on the farm, used for getting the rats.
Many years ago we took a trip through Amish country in Ohio and the Amish farmers were plowing behind a pair of big horses. They would ride on a sled which I guess helped break up the clods and leveled the ground. All I saw had 2-3 little dogs like mixed terriers or such. They walked behind the horse and I later realized they were catching rats, mice, moles, shrews and baby rabbits the horses were uncovering.
My grandfather had a little Rat Terrier named Cricket that was his constant companion and a very good squirrel dog. We'd gather on Sunday afternoons and move the corn and kill rats. I remember Cricket sitting in a likely spot and grabbing any rat that got past us. She was real good at it.
Ironically she was bitten and killed by a big eastern diamondback on an early season squirrel hunt. I don't know whether she was trying to catch him or inadvertently wandered up on him. I remember that was a very sad time for my grandfather.
Did you know old foresters smell worse than young foresters? (cheap)Whiskey, (cheap)cigars, gun powder, old dogs, etc. 8)
We had a black and tan that flat out hated snakes. He would snatch and shake them to pieces. Michelle had just stepped outside on one job when he jumped ahead, grabbed a big old rat snake and did his routine. She couldn't step back fast enough and when she turned towards me there was a stripe of smelly snake goo right across her shirt :D. I won't kill a rat snake as long as he isn't coming after me, but I don't love the ornery cuss's either.
If you break the pointed tip off a yucca leaf and pull down it'll bring some of the fiber with it. Hold the two ends and twist, a quick needle and thread.
Don,
Thanks for the yucca needle and thread suggestion. May come in handy sometime.
When I was a kid we heard the dogs barking on the porch. The front porch was a concrete add-on to our shotgun modest wood frame domicile and was a slight step down from the house. Mom went to open the screen door and our old German shepherd Rex jumped in front of it and laid down and absolutely refused to move no matter how much Mom yelled at him. Finally she spotted a snake tail under him. We came out the back door and grabbed a hoe or shovel. When we got to the porch Rex moved and he was laying on a big cottonmouth. Had he not laid down where and when he did Mom would have stepped right out over the snake and likely gotten bitten. To this day I still believe that dog knew exactly what he was doing even though he put his life and health at risk. Dogs sometimes do amazing things. Of course, truth be told, he'd probably brought it up from the branch behind the house anyway. ::)
Did you know that wolves will catch and eat fish and eat blueberries? I was reading an article yesterday where researchers in one of the western states had attached a camera collar on a wolf and released it. The camera came on for 15 seconds every hour for a sample of what the wolf was doing. They showed 3 cases in short order where the wolf was wading in a local stream and eating fish it had caught. Another researcher found and photographed wolves eating blueberries and in some cases estimated 85% of their diet in some areas and at certain times of the year. Having never lived anywhere where wolves were present I have no personal experience with them.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 20, 2021, 09:07:30 AM
Did you know that wolves will catch and eat fish and eat blueberries? I was reading an article yesterday where researchers in one of the western states had attached a camera collar on a wolf and released it. The camera came on for 15 seconds every hour for a sample of what the wolf was doing. They showed 3 cases in short order where the wolf was wading in a local stream and eating fish it had caught. Another researcher found and photographed wolves eating blueberries and in some cases estimated 85% of their diet in some areas and at certain times of the year. Having never lived anywhere where wolves were present I have no personal experience with them.
I have three pit bull mix mutts that somebody kicked out on the side of the road. They are fenced for most of the day, but I turn them out for a couple of hours each day. One day, I walked out in the yard to find a fresh huge bluegill laying there. I thought, "Oh no, they have stolen a fish out of somebody's bucket." I walked down to the pond, and didn't see anybody fishing....other than three pitbulls in the upper end of the pond stalking the bream beds. I saw the female catch another one. :D
Wudman
I had never thought of dogs or such catching them but I do know that bluegills and bass will build shallow depressions in the sand for beds and they are often in very shallow water. I grew up fishing in big gravel borrow pits in N. Fla where they had pumped the sand and gravel out and the fish loved the shallow gravel points for bedding areas. I watched one 4-5 lb bass build her bed in about 16-20 inch deep water and her tail would completely exit the water like she was standing on her head. The dorsal fins of bluegills will also sometimes stick out of the water. I can see where a savvy, stealthy dog could ambush them in this environment. Looks like eagles, ospreys and herons would catch a lot.
Did you try praising your dog, give him a treat and see if he will go bring you another? You may have a gold mine there and did not even know it. :D
I had a german shepherd who liked to eat raspberries and blackberries. He drew back his lips and picked them quite neatly with his teeth.
First-Ever Wild Wolf Collar Camera Shows What They Really Do All Day Long (https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/wolf-collar-cam-075822857.html)
BTW - here is the link to wolf camera article. FWIW
our dogs started eating our tomatoes. all you see is the back half of a GS dog, and the vines are shaking, and out comes a dog that run over to the side to chew on a tomatoe. I know they say the green ones are bad for them, but what do you do. :) running-doggy musteat_1 smiley_beertoast
I knew this thread would get around to food sooner or later but did not know it would a mater eating shepherd in Kansas. :D
We were on a job in IL and it was big enough that we would be there for awhile. They plowed up a good sized area so Michelle could plant a garden. At one point she was out there with the same black and tan and their big rotty and decided to feed them sweet peas, which they loved. So much so that they tore out the plants :D. Later in the season we had come home for a break while the drywallers did their work. We got an email with a picture of their dog leaving the garden with a big cantelope stuffed in his mouth :D.
Later on on that same job we were working inside on trim, the masons were there on the chimney and the tile guy comes in carrying a box of donuts and a cappucino. Walks right by everyone and heads up to the bathroom to do his work. Kind of bad form and we all looked at one another and shrugged, prima donna ::). Awhile later he stepped out for a smoke. Best I could tell our dog ate 10 donuts and polished off his coffee :D
We mow the fields now, once every few weeks. The wood chucks have no place to hide now, no tall grass so they hide in the stone walls. I had a dog that would hunt them things. I would hear him barking, staying in one place and I knew he had something. I would tear apart the wall and the wood chuck would ran off and Dew would kill it. Fist time he did not know what to do. I had to kill the wood chuck. Second time his instinct took over. He somehow knew to flip it over and bite the throat of the wood chunk. First time he did this the wood chuck wrapped it's feet around Dew's body. I knew Dew was about to get hurt. I had a gun in my hand but no way to shoot. Than all at once that wood chunk released it's grip because it was dead!!!! My little baby boy turned into a killer!!! He had a lot of fun hurting those walls for a wood chuck.
He was not all that brave with a racoon. Or maybe he was smarter than what I thought. I let him out one morning, still dark, and he had his, I got something PaPa bark. I grab the gun and go to him. Out back there is like a square "U" where the garage hooks on to the house. I shined the flash light in that area and all I saw was teeth and claws and a racoon that was some mad. Dew run in behind me and said, Get him PaPa. :D Never seen him do that. He had enough smarts to run behind me and leave that critter alone.
I raised what was probably the best squirrel dog ever. Her mom was my rabbit and knock around dog and was a black and tan dachshund basset cross and the father was supposed to be a beagle but may have just been a good fence climber. She had treed squirrels for a couple of years and I heard her barking behind the house one day so I grabbed my .22 rifle and went back there. She was treed up a broken off red oak stump with a hole in it. I tried twisting him out the hole and could get red hair but could not pull him out. Finally I climbed up and looked over in the hole and found a big sleeping coon. I pulled a slab off the side of the stump and poked him till he jumped out and 17 lb Bertha grabbed him but he quickly got on top so I pulled him off then he jumped on me and Bertha pulled him off. We tag teamed him a few more times and he finally decided he could whip either but not both of us at the same time. He broke and ran and got in a hole in a hollow bay tree. I went home and got my pistol, feed sack and an ax. My yellow and while beagle followed us back. I cut a slab off the tree and spotted the coon tail and grabbed it and threw it out on the ground. Leader bayed and ran up to it and it slapped him across the face and he suddenly remembered why he was a rabbit dog and turned and went back to the house never to return! After a couple more sessions in 2 more hollow trees I finally inverted my old Ruger blackhawk and fired a warning shot up through his chest and head and he fell out. After that not only did I have the world's best squirrel dog I had a top notch coon and possum dog and a beagle who knew and respected his limitations.
Did you know goats are browsers not grazers? If you see them in a nice clean mowed pasture feeding they are probably starving or at least looking for weeds. They love to eat blackberry leaves and tips, poison ivy, smilax vines, grape vines, and multi-flora rose is like ice cream. They will eat the leaves and tips and even gnaw and strip the bark off the stumps girdling and killing them. They sure cleaned up a mess of them here when we bought this place which was overgrown with them. They will stand on their back legs and create a browse line 6-7 ft high. They will push over small trees and bushes to get to the tops and they will climb leaning trees to unreasonable heights. They are also the world's best agent for teaching patience. :D
Some airports and other commercial property owners pay people with herds of goats to fence off areas that they want cleared and put goats in the fenced area to eat up the brush and vegetation. The goats we had as kids would eat Bull Thistle thorns and leaves.
KEC,
I had one old nanny goat like that. She'd slurp down a thistle plant like my grandkids eating a chocolate bar. If we could just breed them for targeted species we could be rich. One species for poison ivy, another for blackberry, another for multi-flora rose, etc. We'd do great on the kudzu goats. ;)
I watched a news report one time of a guy with a big flock of goats and some very good herding dogs who had contracted with the highway department to clear selected areas along the right of way for places that were too steep and rocky to reach with regular mowers and such. He had a big box truck and a narrow ramp/door he'd lower at the site, the goats would run out/down the cleated ramp and start browsing. He had 3-4 very good herding dogs like border collies or Australian shepherds or such that moved them to where they were supposed to "work" and away from areas off limits. They would stay in the area till they had adequately cleared it and he'd whistle at the dogs and they'd bring them back, load them up, close the ramp/door and move to the next site. I knew the military bases used sheep and goats around the ammo storage bunkers, many which were earthen covered. I don't know if that was a contract service or how it worked. I never saw an MOS/MOT for any service for that. I guess if there were his T/O weapon would have been a shepherd's crook. :D
Back in the Jurassic when I was in college, goats were an invasive species. Not to be put in wooded areas. We had a Pakistani and an Egyption in our classes, they could not understand why we were so prejudicial about goats. We explained the depredation they could cause, and they, having been raised in goat country, explained it was management at fault, not the goats.
When someone here gets the bright idea to go into goat ranching the discussion at the store usually starts with "I see Joe has got hisself an infestation of goats". Most of the time within a year or two they understand the 24/7/365 meaning of the phrase "If it won't hold water it won't hold a goat" and move onto something less inquisitive. I think the great emu breakout was the most fun though :D
Did you know the galvanized minnow traps catch more minnows than the black plastic coated/painted ones? I don't know why but they do. I keep several tied out by the creek in my front yard and when I want to go fishing I grab a handful of dry dog food and bait them with it, toss them in the deep holes in the creek and come back a couple hours later to harvest my catch.
Did you know a long handled shrimp net is a handy tool for catching crawfish? I used to stock up on shrimp nets about 5' long, net a little over 12" in diameter and mesh about 1/4" in diameter. I'd drag it along the bottom of deep pools in ditches and pools left by highwater. Crawfish, when alarmed, scoot backwards and in this case into the net. There was a ditch near our country church near Albany Ga that was a great source. After church I would stop and make a couple of passes sometimes collecting many dozen 1" long crawfish at a pass. I'd put them in a styrofoam bait bucket full of moss and a couple inches of water and keep them in a cool shed and be set for bait for weeks. I found every fish out there ate 1" baby crawfish. Many fish were scared of larger crawfish, which is strange since you find them in their stomach when cleaning them. I would pull the tail off the larger crawfish. It is excellent when placed on the hook of a 1/16-1/8 oz jig on a jig spinner (Beetle spin is a common name brand) and fished on ultralight tackle for bluegills and crappie. The spinner attracts the fish, they smell the meat and attack. I have used nets like this here in WV in high water pools but the rocks tear them up quickly and they need lots of repair and frequent replacement.
Another technique is go out at night with a light and use the net to pick up crawfish in shallow water but these are usually too big for good bait - think eating size crawfish in this case.
I went to my creek to catch a few micros including this nicely colored Northern Studfish;
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/25189/P4230450.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1619213636)
I kept a couple Bluntnose minnows to use as bait and fished the main river for the first time this season. Something broke my line on minnow #1 and this Smallmouth hit minnow #2 as soon as it hit the water. Big or small I love to fish!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/25189/P4230461.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1619213668)
Did you know a wily old raccoon will often cover his eyes when treed by dogs at night? I don't know whether he feels if he can't see the dogs and hunter they can't see him or if it is instinct or what but it can make it very difficult to find a treed coon at night especially if he is in a tree with thick leaves or lots of Spanish moss. A young one when captured and grabbed by hand will do the same thing. One technique coon hunters use is to squall at him like an injured or fighting coon and sometimes that will make him look. I squalled and slapped the side of a big gum tree in the river swamp near home trying to get an inexperienced dog to bark at a coon my squirrel dog had treed and I was too good at it and scared him so bad he came down, jumped out and got away from us before I could shoot him.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 23, 2021, 11:59:14 PM
Did you know a wily old raccoon will often cover his eyes when treed by dogs at night? I don't know whether he feels if he can't see the dogs and hunter they can't see him or if it is instinct or what but it can make it very difficult to find a treed coon at night especially if he is in a tree with thick leaves or lots of Spanish moss. A young one when captured and grabbed by hand will do the same thing. One technique coon hunters use is to squall at him like an injured or fighting coon and sometimes that will make him look. I squalled and slapped the side of a big gum tree in the river swamp near home trying to get an inexperienced dog to bark at a coon my squirrel dog had treed and I was too good at it and scared him so bad he came down, jumped out and got away from us before I could shoot him.
https://forfoxsakewildlife.com/2018/12/26/raccoons-cover-their-eyes-to-hide-because-theyre-geniuses/ (https://forfoxsakewildlife.com/2018/12/26/raccoons-cover-their-eyes-to-hide-because-theyre-geniuses/) You might find this a interesting short read.
OK, I may have told this story before, but, I'm old. A friend of a friend approached me to let him run his coon dogs on my lease. I agreed with the condition I come along, first mistake. The lease was 800 acres of plantations, hardwood corridors on streams and drains, a pipeline, and fences.
We got to the camp and got set up and they turned the dogs loose, withing 30 minutes they hit a trail and off they went. We followed, second mistake for me. They went straight line through 12 year old plantation, briars and all. Rather than go around on trails and roads, straight line. If you have never experienced a young plantation in the south, think of a thicket where stuff on the ground wants you to bid a wea, the trees have closed crowns at ground level and whip you as you and the team go through. At night.
We finally hit the tree where the coon had climbed, and the dogs at the base. The guys 10 year old son was with us and he told the boy to leash the dogs and hold on to them. They gave me the honor of shooting the coon out, and I did. When he hit the ground he took off on a high rate of speed for an injured coon. The dogs, of course, took out after it. The boy, told to hold the dogs, was not ready for that, and went down, to be drug by the dogs a short run through the woods and into the creek, where they got the coon. Coon, dogs and boy soaked, and smelled all about the same.
Quote from: Texas Ranger on April 24, 2021, 08:52:52 AM
OK, I may have told this story before, but, I'm old. A friend of a friend approached me to let him run his coon dogs on my lease. I agreed with the condition I come along, first mistake. The lease was 800 acres of plantations, hardwood corridors on streams and drains, a pipeline, and fences.
We got to the camp and got set up and they turned the dogs loose, withing 30 minutes they hit a trail and off they went. We followed, second mistake for me. They went straight line through 12 year old plantation, briars and all. Rather than go around on trails and roads, straight line. If you have never experienced a young plantation in the south, think of a thicket where stuff on the ground wants you to bid a wea, the trees have closed crowns at ground level and whip you as you and the team go through. At night.
We finally hit the tree where the coon had climbed, and the dogs at the base. The guys 10 year old son was with us and he told the boy to leash the dogs and hold on to them. They gave me the honor of shooting the coon out, and I did. When he hit the ground he took off on a high rate of speed for an injured coon. The dogs, of course, took out after it. The boy, told to hold the dogs, was not ready for that, and went down, to be drug by the dogs a short run through the woods and into the creek, where they got the coon. Coon, dogs and boy soaked, and smelled all about the same.
Have you ever heard one of those things snarl? They sound like mad demons from hell
Yes I have. It was because of the group that I was with. I'm glad that my aim was good that day!
Right about the goats!! I am clearing land and I would let them loose. They would run for the cleared land. Have grass in front of the house, but as was mentioned they love the small bushes.
Of all the animals I've had here, I miss the goats the most.
I had 2 goats that was funny little critters. I would let them loose and be working the tractor there too. I would shut the tractor off and be picking rocks of leveling out an area with hand tools. Them goats would wander off and be back to to me and could not see me. They would state a blatting!!! I would have to speak to them and tell them I am right here. They would come running and jumping over to me like they have not seen me for a week. :D Than they would wander off again and start the cycle all over again in about 15 minutes.
I taught the goats to leave something alone by saying out,out,out to them. Yes a few times if there was a piece of paper sticking out on a shelf they would still have it in their mouths as I said out, out, out and they would drag something off the shelf, but they would leave that area.
Sorry, I have been off-line a couple days doing overnight distant sawing jobs.
When my son was about 10 I took him behind our house in NC with his pump up BB gun. I was the squirrel dog looking for squirrels for him to shoot by shaking vines going up to leaf nests and searching likely trees. I had found and he had killed 2 cat squirrels. I came to a medium sized water oak with a likely looking nest and a convenient grape vine running up the tree. I told Sean to get ready and I pulled on the grapevine. The whole nest just sort of unraveled and climbed higher. Evidently it was a sleeping curled up in a nice crotch. I told Sean to shoot it in the head and he got a good rest, shot and the coon fell and got hung on a limb apparently dead. I told Sean not to worry as I'd get it for him and started climbing. (FWWIW I taught John Eubanks how to climb trees.) About half way up Sean started yelling that the coon was alive. I stopped climbing and told him to shoot it again. He zinged a dozen BBs around always hitting the limb the coon was on but not the coon. Several ricocheted dangerously close to me so I told him to stop and I'd go catch it. (Did I ever tell you I am a world class coon catcher with the scars to prove it.) I told Sean to be ready in case the coon fell out. I got up to the limb the coon was on and reached for him. Just as I felt fur he jumped and I watched him fall a good 40' to the ground. Sean immediately stuck his gun barrel to his ribs, shot and both took off running out of my sight but I could still hear a steady "Whack, Whack, Whack." I yelled at Sean "Stop beating that coon with your gun" and in reply I heard "Whack, Whack, Whack - I'm not beating him with my gun. Whack, whack, whack. I'm beating him with a stick." I finally got down from the tree and found Sean with a very well dead coon and a huge grin on his face. We took the coon home and got a picture or two, I cleaned it and Becky made hash from the meat. I tanned the hide and Becky made him a coonskin cap with the face pulled down in front and the tail in back. Sean kept that hat many year and hung it on his bed post. Years later he had a pet coon named Chester and when Chester would misbehave, Sean would point to the cap and say "You better behave! You see what happened to the last coon I had who didn't listen to me."
Did you know Spanish moss is a handy thing to use for lots of projects. It is great for washing dishes when camping, handy for wiping fish slime off your hands or to grab a pesky eel so you can hold and unhook him and it makes great field expedient toilet paper. Warning - it is typically filled with redbugs and sometimes seed ticks and such so make sure you have built up some immunity to those in the area or you may regret that particular choice.
I could see it making a great impromptu rope. Twisted together for a strand for 1 and do that 2 more times and then braid those 3 together. There's got to be better ways than that, but I think I could easily do it.
Makes a heck of a Gilly suit if you need one.
Henry Ford hauled trainloads of Spanish Moss to be used as stuffing for seats in his early automobiles.
When I was a kid growing up on a dairy farm I used to take the baling twine that we pulled (not cut) off bales of hay and braid 3 together, then braid 3 of those together making a strong rope. I then tied it to two of the beams in the barn; made a great swing.
Lynn,
Dad said they cut a lot of big old hickory trees to get the moss when he was a kid to get the moss to sell to Henry and also for mattress stuffing. I think it was a pretty big industry in Louisiana and I am sure in Mississippi too.
In central Fla when I was a kid they did not have any range laws and cows and hogs ran free and were just rounded up to mark the pigs, brand the cows and castrate the boar pigs and bull calves. Then they would round them up and fatten and sell or butcher for their own use. I remember taking my new bride through there 43+ years ago and it was February and the cows had had a hard winter. We'd drive along the old sand and limestone rock roads in Dixie County and see starving cows everywhere then round a bend and see a round fat Braham bull. He might be sleeping in the road and he might move or he might just stand up and paw throwing big clods behind him as he shook his head and debated on charging or not. Sometimes you could drive around him, sometimes you backtracked. The old cows would all eat any Spanish moss they could reach but the bulls could rare up on their hind legs and eat moss 12-15 feet high the smaller cows could not get.
I'll ramble a bit - A local realtor had a live one on the wire from up north somewhere. Remember southern etiquette does not allow dishonest representations but when dealing with northerners such rules do not apply. The realtor was showing them a site with about 100 acres of palmetto scrub (No doubt full of rattlesnakes and yellowjackets) and the yankee asked "Is this plant - pointing to a palmetto - okay for horses as we want to raise some horses?" Billy Bob the realtor replied "Oh it is the finest kid of horse feed known to man." (I don't know any animal that can eat a palmetto - even a goat won't touch it.) Then the Yankee prospect asked "How about all these old stumps - pointing to a bunch of fire blacked lighterd stumps. Are they a problem." Billy Bob replied "No sir, they are some of the finest fertilizer known to man." They rounded a bend in the road and saw a crew of men out there dynamiting and dragging stumps out. Our northern friend asked "If they are such good fertilizer, why are they working so hard to get rid of them?" Billy Bob responded "They are stealing them and as soon as we finish closing on this sale I'm going to go call the sheriff and report them."
KEC,
I save my hay strings too but I do cut mine. We lost a cow when I saw a kid who got one wrapped around her hoof and lost circulation and her hoof so I am paranoid about leaving an uncut hay string around. I used 23 this afternoon to tie up 23 dozen/bundles of tomato stakes I sell to the local nurseries, at flea markets and to individuals. A hay string with several wraps around a dozen tomato stakes works real well to make a neat bundle.
An Uncle of mine stressed to me when I was a young child , "Only use moss found hanging in a tree for T.P.". Poor man was a city slicker married into a family of dirt farmers. He learned this lesson the hard ( and itchy ) way. Red bugs/chiggers ... only thing I truly fear in the woods!
You could always tell a rookie Forester when they would sit on the pine straw. taz-smiley I know where someone will be scratching tonight :D.
Did you know bullfrogs will readily attack an artificial lure? If you happen to spot one on the bank of a lake or river toss him and plastic worm or flip a dry fly or cork popping bug on a fly line over to him. Warning - they are vicious fighters. I was never able to land one on a fly rod but boy did we have a fight for a while before he broke the line. I spotted one in an old gravel lake where we were fishing and I pitched a plastic worm on a bass rod to him. It landed a few inches from him but got hun on a root so I was trying to twitch it loose and the frog slowly turned to face it then attacked, got it free and hooked himself.
I hooked an owl on a live oak limb on the Suwannee River the same way one time. I pulled him to the river with a real surprised look on his face but he got some air under his wings, lifted off broke free.
Bullfrogs will readily attack a bare hook. Bounce it in the air in front of their nose. Enjoy.
I read one article where I guy had a long cane pole with about 1' of line and a gob of worms or a crawfish or just a small piece of colorful cloth on a treble hook. He'd scull slowly through the thick lily pads and when he'd spot a frog he'd drop it in front of him and they would latch on.
My grandmother used a similar outfit she called a "dabbler" to catch big bream under low over hanging bushes. She'd poke it in those tight spaces and maybe jiggle it a bit to attract fish and when they'd grab it she'd pull it out end over end.
I threw over and past an ole Cottonmouth once intending to snag it when I reeled it. Yup, I snagged it and what a fight it put up? :o Now, what da heck do I do now? :o Surely neither PatD nor I wanted it in da boat and thankfully it finally entangled itself enough that I could break da line. Dat won't happen again!!
Lynn,
The first time I went frog gigging I gigged a big old water snake with the same results - now how and I going to get this thing off! It is amazing how many things seemed like a good idea at the time but further down the line you're asking yourself "What was I thinking?" ::) ???
I've done similar. I think that all of us that have done it/that must've gone to different schools together, somehow!
That time in Texas.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10007/asnake.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1619641495)
Did you know an effective way old timers caught big bass was to use a long cane pole with a lure tied on about 6-12 inches of strong line which was also tied back about half way along the pole for insurance in case one broke the pole. They would fish along the banks of the lake at night gently beating the tip of the pole in the water creating ripples that looked like a frog swimming? We used to call this jigger fishing or JoeMoling. My old mentor made one out of a 6" long piece of leather with 5-6 hooks wired to it facing up. Other people used a jitterbug lure and dragged it along the bank and up under the overhanging bushes and such on moonlit nights. The best fishermen I ever knew of to use this technique were a pair of brothers my dad's age. They'd use a big treble hook over a big white rubber skirt and swim it along the bank and around stumps and along the edge of heavy grass. A strike was a near heart attack inducing event and all you could do was drag back on the pole to drag the fish into the boat. They fished in several big gravel borrow pits near where I lived. I was working with them on a summer job at a St. Regis paper mill and asked one of them one night if they had been catching a lot of fish down there lately. He replied "Yeah we are catching lots of 10-12 lbers but not near as many of them old big ones as we usually do." I never did figure out was he meant was a "big one." He did say you had to be super stealthy and he always fished with his brother as he knew how to scull a boat. He said the bass were real spooky when you were that close and even an electric motor was too loud so you had to ease along the bank in complete silence to catch them
Sort of reminds me of when I was a teen I did a lot of fishing. I found that largemouths went for rapalas. But, the most effective way to fish it was to cast out to the edge of some brush, let it sit for 10 seconds and then give it just a light twitch. I think the fish are a little spooked when a lure hits the water so you have to let them calm down for those 10 seconds. The little twitch tells them that the lure is "alive" and they go for it.
KEC,
I think that was the standard way when I was a kid that very good fishermen used a Lucky 13 which was a big topwater lure with a concave mouth. They'd throw it in a likely looking spot and let it sit then twitch it which made a popping sound and indicated a live bait.
Talking about fishing. My WORST day was the day that my friend & I went and on the very first cast (we hadn't even got the motor in the water yet) I made with a top water jig of some sort and got a fairly good strike, fought it for about 8sec and nothing the rest of the day. My buddy that is with me must have landed close to 20 that day. I was so pithed off all day because of that. I believe that was a big cause of me forever going back to hunting instead.
Todd,
I am sure my worse day was when I was a kid and we took and old wooden boat down a rough washed out dirt road to a place called Ralph's Lake which was just a wide spot in a creek. My dad, older brother and me were fishing and I was using a Zebco 22 on about a 3' long stiff el-cheapo rod throwing a Bomber lure. Most places we could not cast very far but we finally got the boat positioned where I was able to make a maximum length cast so I took aim and threw as hard as I could and watched and waited patiently for the lure to land, and I waited, and I waited and it never landed so I turned around and saw my lure hanging from my dad's jaw. I immediately just started crying because I knew I was never going to get to go fishing again - ever! My brother tried to pull it free but could not get it loose. Finally Dad spotted a turkey hunter walking along the bank and yelled over at him and he came a finally wrenched it free with a good chunk of bone in the barb.
Quote from: Tacotodd on April 29, 2021, 02:49:01 PM
Talking about fishing. My WORST day was the day that my friend & I went .............................
My worst day of fishing was much better than my BEST day at work. :D :)
The past few years I've gone fishing a number of places known to have walleyes. I went at the times that they allegedly bite and cast rapalas until my arms were sore, which is supposed to be effective. Not one walleye.
I'd love to come home with a few nice sized walleyes to filet and have a tasty meal or two. Any suggestions? I know there are fishing authorities here.
KEC,
I hope they reply with some help. Don't ask me as I have never caught one in my life although I love to eat them. I well remember a great meal of walleye fillets up around Erie PA when I worked on a project at Kodak HQ in Rhochester NY.
I remember on that trip seeing lots of dead deer along the interstate in PA and thinking "These guys must have a lot more deer than we do as they sure have more dead deer laying around." Then I realized "They don't have more deer, times are just better up here and when they hit a deer they leave it laying while we take it home and eat it."
When we moved in here July 4, 1990 we had a team of teenagers come help us unload our U-Haul and get settled in. I was cleaning up outside and complaining about the junk left behind and one of the teens said "My grandpa has a junk dealership in town and he'd love to have those old electric motors and such in that old log barn" so I told him to send him up. He came and helped us clean up and invited us to come fish at his place on the river in town. His name was E.C. "Carlton" Cox and he had caught the WV state record walleye here in the New River just above the bridge over highway 20 but he said somebody else had beaten him out that year by a few ounces so it was the last year he was listed as the state record holder.
I always wondered if those dead roadkill deer could be of use to maybe farmers for say butchering up and using as heard dog food etc. Basically free meat, dogs wouldn’t care. Maybe they already do this I’m not sure I’m not a farmer, always made me think about it though when I see one, I mean it would make sense if you wanna save money instead of buying dog food... saving a buck is earning a buck.
No pun intended ;D
Hemlock,
I understand around big cities with a large zoo the zoo often works a deal and the county road department call them to collect and feed road kill to their carnivores. In nature the big cats, wolves, hyenas, etc. eat small bones and chew on the big ones and they need such to stay healthy.
Many years ago WV caught a lot of flack from Jay Leno, et.al. when we passed what is called our road kill law. It basically says if we kill an animal we can call it in then take it home and process any salvageable meat. I think it is a very reasonable law. No reasonable man is deliberately going to hit a deer with a car because the repair costs far outweigh the value of the meat but if one is killed I am a firm believer in trying to use it if possible. Besides, if the animal is left on the road or right of way the county has to spend money to clean it up and until it is removed it creates a hazard to other drivers crashing into coyotes, dogs, cats, possums, foxes, hawks, eagles, etc attracted to the kill.
We have hit and picked up and eaten deer and once a turkey hen and I have no shame for doing so. I think it was the responsible thing to do.
Okay - for today's topic: Did you know bamboo/river cane is wonderful stuff with tons of uses but to properly dry it so it does not split and weaken you need to store it completely out of the sun and let is dry? We used to cut canes for fishing poles and the larger ones for gig poles, push poles, etc. We would store them under the house or in the rafters of our shed or such where the sun never hit it for a year or so until it was well seasoned. I assume most fishing poles were dried over heat as any you bought would likely have scortch marks. When dried they would varnish them. Fiberglass has largely replaces bamboo as crappie/bream poles and such.
I’m not so sure about folks avoiding deer because of cost of damage to the vehicle, could rig up a beater from a old Toyota pickup weld up a front bumper and good to go :D :D. It’s probably been done actually, some ppl are hungry
You never know with the general public
Hemlock,
The welding and metal and such would still cost more than the value of a mangled up bloodshot deer in most cases but I live in Redneck Heaven so I'm not saying it couldn't and hasn't been done. :D My son hit a big old doe 20+ years ago about 1/4 miles from our house. He hit her right in the head with a Pontiac Catalina and that front headlight was cock-eyed till the day we got rid of it. She staggered to the neighbor's walkway and died. The meat was not hurt but usually there is a lot of waste.
About the deer, Pennsylvania, for some time had a very high deer population and the roads were strewn with carcasses. Their policy was to let 'em lay there so people could see the extent of the problem and drive more careful. At one time, I drove for an organization where myself and a bunch of others made one trip a day from Syracuse, NY to Scranton, Pa. and back. One driver would combat boredom by counting the road-killed deer. From the state line on I-81 to Scranton he once counted 70. One state I heard about instituted a policy to simply drag the deer to the outer edge of the right-of-way and let the scavengers have them. Made sense to me. Many areas around the world are seeing declines in the numbers of eagles, vultures, etc. and one factor is the insistance of government agencies that people have to "properly dispose of" (bury) large animal carcasses, eliminating a big food source for scavengers. Here in the Eastern US many deer are killed by motor vehicles and they are great food for Bald Eagles, Golden Eagles in the Hudson River Valley, crows, ravens, etc.. Our D.E.C. seems to be moving towards mandating that deer carcasses be landfilled out of concern about cronic wasting disease. I think those carcasses rightfully belong to those scavengers, just put them out away from roads and houses. Then when they are reduced to bones they could bury the skeletons (most of the CWD prions would get buried with the spine). Here you can get a tag to keep a road-killed deer (Last I knew) and that's OK too.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 30, 2021, 11:28:30 AM
Hemlock,
The welding and metal and such would still cost more than the value of a mangled up bloodshot deer in most cases but I live in Redneck Heaven so I'm not saying it couldn't and hasn't been done. :D My son hit a big old doe 20+ years ago about 1/4 miles from our house. He hit her right in the head with a Pontiac Catalina and that front headlight was cock-eyed till the day we got rid of it. She staggered to the neighbor's walkway and died. The meat was not hurt but usually there is a lot of waste.
I got a bunch of things I could make a front bumper out of thanks to all the kind folks who have dumped garbage off on my land over the years :D
I only hit a deer once but I've had many close calls, out here in rural ns people FLY , 100 down 70 barrelling around corners in the dark etc, deers get smoked all the time. One jumped in front of my truck in town one day and I was only going slow so I slammed the brakes and just kissed his rear end with my front bumper and he bounced off the road, "recouped" then darted off into the woods. I was ready to put a axe to it in case I broke it's hip and it would be suffering, I would of taken it home in that case for sure
I have caught many stumpknocker pumpkinseed sunfish (bream to me when growing up) with a cane pole and worms dug out from the rich wet ground at the end of the gray water drain from the house I grew up in. Also fell into that gray water drain (ditch to you country folks) many times trying to pole vault it with a chinaberry pole. Chinaberry makes a poor pole vaulting pole :-\....
Danny,
If you guys were like us we never threw a bream back either. We'd save them the size of your three fingers. Mom and my grandmother would fry them crisp and eat bones, tail, fins and all.
I remember digging up wigglers from the washing machine drain too. Where I grew up was real sandy and worms were hard to find and that was the only spot that stayed wet enough for them to stay with any regularity. Not like here with our nightcrawlers. I caught about 30 last night in 15 minutes which which will last me 3-4 trips catching bait and such.
I never tried pole vaulting with a chinaberry pole. Your observation that a a chinaberry pole makes a poor pole vaulters pole is good information but your comment about you falling into the grey water ditch "many times" did cause me some concern. Lets see - you opined that a chinaberry pole was a poor vaulting pole but you still fell in the ditch multiple times. Were you just a slow learner or something? :D :D :D
Did you know a plastic bucket makes an excellent live bait container? I have made several taking a plastic bucket with a lid and drilling dozens of 1/4" holes in the sides and top. Drill a hole near the edge of the lid and near the top of the bucket to tie the lid and bucket together to keep them from getting separated. I tie my cord to the bucket then run the cord through the hole in the lid stringing them together but still allowing you to slide the lid up to add or remove bait. I use several feet of camo cord so I can tie my bucket out in the lake and hide it. If you don't drill any holes in the bottom 3-4 inches of the bucket it will hold a gallon or so of water when you raise the bucket. I like to use a green or black bucket that does not show up well when staked out in the lake. I like to catch small bluegills and sunfish for catfish bait, keep them in my live well of my boat but I stake them out overnight so they are not stressed by the ride home. I find my bucket is slightly buoyant so I add a small rock or railroad spike to make it sink.
About cooking small sunfish tail, fins attached, I've fished in some places where there were tons of small, overpopulated bullheads. About the size of smelt. Cut the heads off, remove the spiny dorsal fin and any other spines, pull the skin off with pliers (or leave it on) and fry them and eat the bones. One time my wife and I found a stillwater "lake" that held the mother lode of small bullheads. Toss out a hook and line with a small piece of worm and in seconds pull one in. So she's having a ball pulling them in while the fishing guide (me) was taking them off the hook and fixing the bait. So she asks why I'm not fishing. I had to tell her that I'm too busy playing fishing guide.
Did you know fishing for bream such as bluegills with a cane/fiberglass pole is one of the best ways to introduce your kids and grandkids to fishing? Be sure the line is no longer than the pole so it is easier for them to control with they jerk the fish out of the water. A float set from 1-2 feet deep, a BB shot to get the bait down and a number 8 or number 10 long shanked cricket hook with a cricket, worm or similar bait is a perfect starter. Warning - you may want to wear eye protection and a hard hat and be prepared to get slapped in the face, have lines with a flopping fish wrapped around your neck and be prepared to untangle lines from any overhead trees and offending limbs. Remember - it is all about the kids having fun so be patient and tolerant. If/When you find you can't fish for helping them bait hooks, get untangled, replace broken hooks and lines and such, put your rod down and dedicate all your time to the kids. You are making memories - not trying to land a lunker. ;)
Did you know that you will never see more than one eye of a cottontail rabbit at night? I don't know how or why they do it they turn their bodies such that only one reddish orange eye will ever show in the light at night. If you see 2 eyes you are looking at a whip-or-will or nightjar or such.
Did you know that the Gypsy Moth, which has been one of the most destructive invasive species to North American hardwoods, was introduced to the US in the 1860s? A French artist and astronomer named Etienne Trouvelot moved to Massachusetts around the time he was experimenting with hybridization of hardy moths for the purposes of silk production. His interest in this project didn't last too long, but long enough for some moths to escape into local forests and begin the plague that is yet ongoing.
Trouvelot remained and artist and astronomer, combining the two by producing many highly artistic and scientifically valuable drawings and color pastels of planets, the sun, and celestial phenomenon. The muted colors of his illustrations are a reminder of another interesting astronomical fact:
Did you know that the stunning photos of space we've all seen are artificially colored?
Quote from: Will.K on May 03, 2021, 10:54:19 AM
Did you know that the Gypsy Moth, which has been one of the most destructive invasive species to North American hardwoods, was introduced to the US in the 1860s? A French artist and astronomer named Etienne Trouvelot moved to Massachusetts around the time he was experimenting with hybridization of hardy moths for the purposes of silk production. His interest in this project didn't last too long, but long enough for some moths to escape into local forests and begin the plague that is yet ongoing.
Trouvelot remained and artist and astronomer, combining the two by producing many highly artistic and scientifically valuable drawings and color pastels of planets, the sun, and celestial phenomenon. The muted colors of his illustrations are a reminder of another interesting astronomical fact:
Did you know that the stunning photos of space we've all seen are artificially colored?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/65126/EC4F9FED-A6A5-44CE-BF30-D839101F6ACE.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1620054086)
Speaking of space, here’s a photo taken by astronomer Michael Collins, the only man on the other side of that camera, Neil, buzz, were in that capsule. Everything you’ve ever know or will be is on that little blue ball.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on May 03, 2021, 08:19:15 AMyou will never see more than one eye of a cottontail rabbit at night? I don't know how or why they do it they turn their bodies such that only one reddish orange eye will ever show in the light at night
It is because they are watching you.. Because their eye are on each side of their head, they can only see you clearly with one eye. Ducks do same thing -look sideways at things they want to see clearly.
JJ
Will,
My son used to put out Gypsy moth traps for the state of WV when he was in college as a summer job. The good part was he got paid for it and it served as his forestry internship he had to complete to get his AS in Forestry. I don't know if it applied to his BS in Management or not.
On one of his trips - the state gave him a map and a grid to mark where he placed the traps so they could verify and go check them later - he found a small pond or waterfall as a special site. He took his girlfriend, now wife, there to propose to her so good things came come even from unwanted bugs. ;)
Did you know that mink hunt and eat crawfish? Several years back my wife and I were fishing in the headwaters of Bluestone Lake in the New River side and observed a mink on a big log basking in the October sunshine. She as rolling around like a housecat in heat. My wife had taken a number of pictures of her. Suddenly the mink jumped up, ran down the log and stopped at the waters edge about 10' from us for Becky to get a good picture then she jumped in the water and we watched a trail of bubbles go out for about 45 seconds then the bubbles made line for the bank. She came out with a crawfish in her mouth that looked as big as my fist. It had its claws outstretched and as it ran up the log it grabbed a small grapevine and nearly jerked the mink off the log. They had quite a tug of water for a couple of minutes till the mink won and took her hard won meal back to a den to eat. These little unexpected events are what make it so much fun being in the outdoors.
Did you know the African Grey Hornbill builds a nest in a hollow in a tree, lays 2-4 eggs, the female moves in and incubates and feeds the babies after sealing the gap with mud and droppings? The male hornbill brings food to the female and you and feeds them through a narrow slot left in the opening of the den. When the young are big enough to leave the adults remove the seal and the mother and young are free to go live on their own.
The hornbill is an impressive bird with a very long, heavy beak used to crush nuts and hard fruits and such.
And so I understand, the female hornbill undergoes her feather moult while in the nest cavity too.
She might as well - she has plenty of time on her hands with nothing much else to do while incubating and waiting for hubby to bring them a meal. :D
take out! :) :) sketti_1
Did you know birds are very often indicators of other wildlife and people in the area? The most common indicator of lions or other big cats in Africa are hawks, eagles and vultures circling and diving at the kill site. I have had crows warn me when a whitetail buck was headed my way. A Grey Lourie is called a "Go-Away Bird" in Africa because it is such a pest to hunters there. A Bee-Eater bird is used by Pygmies and bushmen to find bee trees in Africa - supposedly the bird deliberately leads them to the hive. The superstition is if the hunter does not leave some honey and larvae for the Bee-eater as tribute for his help he will send a mamba to visit and attack the family of the hunter.
Blue Jays and Crows are the top two "Alarms" in my area...
Quote from: jb616 on May 06, 2021, 11:12:14 AM
Blue Jays and Crows are the top two "Alarms" in my area...
Red squirrel here, also chickadees
You can hear/track a man, deer, or predator here in WV by the squirrels and chipmunks. As someone or a deer, bear or coyote or such walks past the squirrels and chipmunks will start chattering on "munking" as long as the visitor in their area. When they leave one's territory he does a "hand-off" with his neighbor and the next rodent takes over warning everything in his range. You can determine with pretty good accuracy where the person/critter is at any given time.
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Did you know this is supposed to be the year of the Gen X cicada hatch out? Apparently, from what I have been reading, this is supposed to be the year the 13 year and 17 year cicadas hatches coincide. We had a huge hatchout a couple years ago and I can't imagine more of them than we had then. It seemed like every square foot of ground in my pasture had a half inch diameter hole in it and the noise was worse than any jungle I ever worked or vacationed in.
I probably won't notice because my tinnitus sounds like Cicada's 24/7....
Did you know the tallest bird in North America is the Whooping Crane? They are endangered but it is amazing they are around at all as in 1941 there were only 21 wild and 2 captive birds left alive. I remember part of their reintroduction efforts included incubating the eggs in captivity and placing them with sandhill cranes. It took a while for this to work as the cranes imprinted or fell in love with the sand hill cranes and it confused them for a while it seems. The researchers overcame this and the last I read there are over 800 alive today but they are still critically endangered due to loss of habitat, poaching and predators.
You guys who have had poultry probably understand that if you let a hen chicken start a nest and you leave the eggs alone that the hen will lay ~a dozen eggs and then stop laying and start incubation. But, if you let her start laying, let her keep one egg and start taking any additional eggs as she lays them, she will lay an egg every day for weeks or longer. Biologists who want to bolster the population of endangered birds will use this to get them to lay more eggs than they normally would to increase the reproductive rate. California Condors don't nest until they are several years old and then they only nest every two years and (I think) they only lay 1 or 2 eggs. Not exactly a high reproductive rate ! However they learned that they too can be "double clutched" as they call it to speed reproduction and recovery of the birds. Even the condors have come a long way from when their numbers bottomed out a few years back.
Did you know condors are not rapters? They are scavengers in the vulture family and not hunters like raptors (Hawks, Eagles and Owls). They are very large and colorful birds and the largest soaring birds we have in North and South America.
A friend saw them in the Grand Canyon where they had been relocated.
I have never seen one in the USA. We saw some in a Raptor center in Ecuador near the Equator. While they are not Raptors they had them there that they had rescued and they were a pretty good tourist draw.
My neighbors just returned from vacationing out West. They went to some place and saw signs about a place to view the condors. After driving back and forth over a bridge looking for the condors, a local told them that the condors roost under the bridge. Sure enough, they went below the bridge and looked up to see 6 or 7 condors.
Quote from: KEC on May 08, 2021, 11:02:48 AMHowever they learned that they too can be "double clutched" as they call it to speed reproduction and recovery of the birds
Same technique is used with endangered birds here in NZ. The Kakapo is a flightless nocturnal parrot, which was almost wiped out by introduced cats and ferrets. Numbers were down to under 60 by 1995. They rounded up the surviving birds and moved them to predator free Islands, and have been closely monitored. And that's one of the tricks they use to get double clutches. Numbers are now up to ~220 birds.
They also found that if the females were too well fed they produced mostly male chicks, which isn't ideal if you are trying to build up the population. So they have to be very careful about the supplemental feeding. Make sure they have enough food to produce eggs, but not so much that they get fat and produce mostly male offspring.
Ian,
So you are saying fat moms are more likely to produce boy babies? Or is this an Australian and New Zealand thing? :D
That is interesting. I know some reptiles produce gender specific clutches based on the temperature of the nests which has been used to regulate the number of females hatched. The Galapagos tortoise is one such species that comes to mind. Basically since nest temps are pretty consistent in the wild clutches incubate and hatch with either all male or all female young.
Did you know that seals in the cold Atlantic ocean waters along Namibia's Skeleton Coast will lift one flipper out of the water to catch the sunlight like a solar panel and regulate their body temps accordingly?
There is a huge fur seal colony at Cap Cross and it is a neat sight to watch the seals floating on the surface with one flipper raised high like they are waving to the world as the exposed flipper warms the body of the seal.
Did you know there is a pride of lions living on the Skeleton Coast of Namibia who almost never drink water? As I understand they get virtually all their moisture from the blood of the animals they eat. Their main prey are the seals at Cape Cross mentioned earlier. When we visited the seal colony there were plenty of fresh jackal tracks there and they also evidently get their moisture from their prey as there is almost no fresh water along the Skeleton Coast.
Did you know you can twist a stuck vehicle out of a sand or mud hole using a long, heavy rope or nylon strap tied in a loop between a tree and the vehicle? Insert a heavy stick or pipe and start twisting and as the rope tightens you can actually pull the vehicle out. Use a pipe or stick a little longer than the distance between the rope and the ground. Angle the stick when twisting so it will pass under the rope but can be straightened and wedged against the ground to hold it in place if needed.
Warning - this is for emergency use only and can be very dangerous if not properly done. The tension created on the rope can cause the stick or pipe to spin backwards and can seriously injure or kill an unwary user.
Did you know..
That the North Star is 4000 times brighter than our sun? The light we see when we look at the North Star was generated in the year 1587, travelling 434 years through space to reach us.
Did you know that NASA is planning a manned trip to the sun? When asked how they were going to keep from burning up when they reached the sun the current, recently appointed NASA head replied "They are going to land at night." :D
Did you know an elephants trunk is flexible enough to pick up a single leaf like a person using their thumb and index finger? The very tip of the trunk can be opened and closed to grasp and hold items. The top and bottom come together. In Thailand at the various elephant shows you will see elephants painting pictures of flowers, grass, people, hut, etc. with amazing accuracy - I dare say better than I can do.
Totally off topic, but a forklift operator once demonstrated to me his ability to pick up a nickel lying on a concrete floor with a forklift. True story.
I have heard of similar MHE rodeos first from a friend and fishing buddy (I hung a beetle spin in his head one time fishing on Lake Blackshear and told him to be careful getting it free as it was a best lure - your can imagine his reply! :D) who worked with the track department of the John Deere dealership in Albany Ga and again from a Chief Warrant officer who was a USMC counterpart at my last assignment. They would do things like have backhoe operator's pick up an egg from a bed of sand and move it to another one or lift a quarter or such. My USMC buddy said he had some really good operators who were proud to show off. My fishing buddy said they had some good ones and some who were simply "very entertaining" to watch. ;) I love watching a skilled operator no matter what discipline he/she is working.
Did you know the Bakka pygmies in Cameroon and the Central African Republic hunt birds and monkeys with crossbows? I have one I bought from them and it is interesting craftsmanship. They took a piece of wood and basically carved out a board about 4' long and a little over an inch thick and several inches wide . About 6" from the front they bored or burned out a notch about 2" long and 1" wide and inserted a dense, flexible, hard wood for the bow about 28" long centered and secured in the notch. They bend the bow and tie it in a bowed shape using heavy cord they weave from the bark of a local vine. They cut a vertical slot in wood several inches back from the bowstring and cut a notch to hold the string in place under tension when cocked. Inside the slot they carve and insert a trigger that looks like a narrow smooth board that pivots at the rear on a nail or wire. They cut a thin groove the length of the arrow or dart (Actually a bolt in correct terminology) from the tip to the string. When cocked and ready to shoot they aim then push up on the trigger which pushes the string out of the notch causing the bow to fire. The darts I got with it are a foot or so long, about 3/16" in diameter and smoothed with a knife or piece of glass. They cut a slot in the back and insert a small green leaf for fletching to stabilize the bolt in flight. They sharpen and coat the tip with a fast acting poison that affects the nervous system immobilizing any game animal or bird struck by the bolt. I don't remember hearing what they make their poison from. Bushmen further north in Namibia would dig up a particular grub and toss them in a pot and heat and stir to a gooey black mush they dipped their arrows in. The plants the grubs ate had a toxin that affected the nervous system of any game struck.
That grub is one of the many things that I will NOT eat (but sushi is awesome, I like).
Did you know that a whitetail deer can stand on its hind legs to reach overhead food? We raised a little doe fawn many years ago. Her mother was killed by a car when the fawn was about the size of a grown housecat. We had goats at the time and would milk them and give it to her in a bottle. We found if we held the bottle up high she could stand up on her hind legs to nurse from it. When she got older we'd feed her apple slice or fortune cookies and make her stand up on her back legs to get them. I was amazed how well she could balance on only her hind legs.
When I was with Game and Fish I took possession of an "orphaned" ( not really , fawn and doe were behaving as they should ) fawn picked up by ignorant , if well meaning neighbors to the Management Area I supervised . Not equipped to take car of animals , I kept him the trailer I lived in. Mimicking the actions of the doe, I would stimulate the anus area with a paper towel and the fawn would defecate into the paper towel. No training needed , they come house broken! Not having paper towels , in the wild the doe would stimulate the area orally , consume the body waste , thus eliminating the additional scent that would be in the area where the fawn was hidden. This was 40+ years ago , can't remember , but I assume I handled the urine the same way. :D
Spot was never a house deer. We kept her in a dog crate the first night then after that we'd leave her in a stall in the goat barn with the door open so she could come and go. When she was about 4-5 months old I went hunting the first day or antlerless season, walked to the top of the pasture and a couple of yearlings jumped up and ran up the hill. One stopped and I shot it in the head with my 30-06. When I did Spot jumped up about 30' away and I felt so guilty. I would not have shot it if I 'd known it was her friend. I dragged the deer home and cleaned it and Spot followed me home. I gave her an apple and she forgave me.
We could never pick her up or she would kick so violently I was afraid she would kick her hip out of socket. She was worse than any mule if your tried to pull her. If you wanted her to go somewhere we'd put a hand on each hip and push her like a wheelbarrow. You could push her anywhere like that.
When we first got her she'd get milk all over her face eating her milk. Morris, our big yellow cat would lick it off and they became good friends. It was funny later to watch them in the pasture. She'd be feeding and Morris would start stalking like a leopard after an impala. She'd watch him out of the corner of her eye. When he got close enough he'd charge with his paws spread wide. She'd kick a hoof past his ear and they'd chased around the pasture a bit, stop, go sniff noses then go their separate ways. It was obviously a big game to both of them.
I know you've thought about it, what would you have done if it would have been Spot?
Did you know there are several ways to hook a live minnow when fishing with them for crappie or such? We typically us a thin #2 wire hook and I hook the minnow in the soft spot of the lips. Sometimes a crappie will nail it and I land him and find the minnow has slid up the line. I then take him off and run the hook just in front of the eyeball through the eye socket. When the crappie are biting fast they will grab him and sometimes the minnow will still be alive but they tear the hook out. At that point I hook him in the middle of the back and maybe catch a third fish on the same minnow. A back-hooked minnow does not survive nearly as long as a lip hooked or eye socket hooked minnow.
Todd,
Couldn't be Spot. I had a reflective neon pink color on her to prevent such.
Gotcha. I guess that I just missed that somehow, but I did wonder about that!
Todd,
I had not mentioned the collar earlier. We had a neighbor who raised one to become a very big buck. His ran away fairly soon. He had put an ear tag in it so we would know not to shoot it. Ours stayed here till she was over a year old and disappeared in June. I figure someone shot her out of meanness as it was not hunting season or dogs or coyotes got her as she was too dependable to come check in regularly with us. That was what made her such a neat pet as she was always free to come and go. She'd go play with her wild friends then come back here to visit and get a treat or such. She loved to lick kids faces - I guess for the salt but they always thought she was kissing them so we got some great pictures of her with them.
Did you know that if someone falls out of a fairly small boat in open water you may need to help them climb back in from the stern to keep from swamping the boat as you would do if you entered from the side? Keep this in mind if you are by yourself and find yourself in the water. Where possible it may be easier and safer to hold on to the side of the boat and float or swim to shore where you can stand up. If you are too far out or the water is too cold you may not have that long to wait and need to get back in immediately.
When I watch Swamp People and I see them pulling big heavy gators in the boat I keep wondering why they don't all use rollers like the system Frenchie and Gee invented to hang on the side of the boat. It looks like it would be much more stable if mounted on the bow of the boat. It looked like a simple, very effective and inexpensive solution/system. Heck I probably should have several around the sawmill to load heavy stuff over the side of the trailer or such.
Kind of on the same lines. I've heard that when Eskimos who were basically sewn into their kayaks first got hold of guns they didn't know not to unleash a broadside. Since they had to set their paddle down to fire and often hunted alone they lost more than one before they figured out to line up and fire forward.
Did you know most whitetail fawns in WV are bornin May and June? The peak of our rut is about mid November. The gestation period is normally 201 days I understand. I remember seeing very small spotted fawns when hunting in Ala in November. Their rut is apparently more in January. When are most of the fawns born in you area?
No problem here whenever our fawns are dropped.
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Our peak breeding is the last week of December, but if Does aren't bred they repeat back ~30 days later. Apparently this doe missed two cycles because this trail camera pictures was taken March 5th.
MM, our deer have lost their horns by then. Or is their something that I'm missing from the great state of MS?
His antlers were not the only thing that he has not lost yet so you are not missing anything. As long as our WV friends keep sending "product infringement contributions" we will continue to keep our secrets......secret. :D
8) ;) :-X
Nuff said?
After all, I learned a long time ago, KMS.
Keep Mouth Shut 🤐
We took a trip today and I saw my first fawn of the season with a doe out in a field about 20 miles from our home. It was a good ways off but still looked pretty wobbly. Always great to see them every season. I looked at home in a normal nursey area but did not see one. Only a WV Tarpon.
Did you know there are tarpons in WV? I did not realize that when we moved here 30+ years ago. They are fierce fighters and creatures to beware of and have been reported to have eaten small children and pets.
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I spotted this one just outside my pasture fence a couple of days ago while looking for fawns.
I suspect the naming may have something to do with WV language and culture issues. ;)
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They are more accurately identified as a common Box Turtle. The numbers are rapidly increasing in our area and soon we will have to use the additional funds from WV to build enclosures and barriers to prevent human/turtle interaction. :o
Quote from: Magicman on May 20, 2021, 07:43:33 AM
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They are more accurately identified as a common Box Turtle. The numbers are rapidly increasing in our area and soon we will have to use the additional funds from WV to build enclosures and barriers to prevent human/turtle interaction. :o
@Magicman (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=10011) , Do the admins know what kind of pictures you have been posting lately? :D I have Box turtles on my property in Michigan as well. I have never seen one before that as we mostly have Painted and Snapping. The local environmental club put 2' high chain link fences along the highway to keep them from crossing and getting squished.
I think you miss-spell Terrapene carolina
Yes, that Box Turtle picture was first posted here on the FF with Jeff's OK in 2012. The Deer picture was posted here in March, 2020.
Obviously I do need to get out more so PatD and I will be on a 106 mile road trip sawing next week. ;D
The fastest moving box turtles I've seen were three males chasing a female through a cedar thicket. I thought about trailing the parade to see how things turned out, but decided to give them their privacy.
While we're on such topics, did you know that some female mustelids (weasels and such) are sexually mature and actually impregnated while nursing and hairless? I forget which species, or if this is a characteristic many mustelids share. Gestation is delayed for months until an ideal time, at which point the egg implants and pregnancy proper begins.
While most whitetail deer hunters are well of this fact did you know that when in rut the male deer makes a scrape in a well used deer trail under a low hanging bush (4'-5' is typical height), urinates in it then rubs his eyes on the bush which leaves his scent for any passing interested doe? Any doe in heat passing through finding the scrape will wait patiently for the buck to return. The buck typically runs his line of scrapes (I don't remember how many they typically make but they range from the size of a dinner plate to about a square yard) in a circuit from the same direction. Hunters can look at the scrape and see which direction the leaves and dirt have been pawed in and determine the direction the buck will be coming from and be sure to hunt the scrape when the wind is coming from that direction so the buck will not smell them. My grandfather was one of the early game wardens in the state of Fla and he always referred to scrapes as "them pawed places". He never fully understood the details of the scrape but he did know when he saw one there was often a big buck near by.
I remember reading in sister threads about one FF member in Mississippi who said he made his own scrapes by removing the leaves and peeing in it himself. I always wondered if when he checked his personal scrapes if he found more Mississippi State or Ole Miss Co-Eds standing waiting for his return. I think that should be a worthwhile study for some young Mississippi Game Biology grad student or for one's Doctorate thesis.
Use to make false scrapes, under a bush and a few drops of doe urine. It would tend to hold bucks in the area looking for that bright eyed doe. 8)
Did you know that deer, especially whitetails, get really stupid during the rut? This is when most of the big bucks are killed and also probably when the most deer/vehicle accidents occur because the bucks are frantically running their scrapes and chasing the does, even the ones that aren't yet in heat. Our news stations routinely advise motorists to watch as a big buck is just as likely to chase a hot doe across a highway full of fast moving traffic as an empty field.
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This is not a big deer by many of your standards but it was a 175 lb 8 point I shot a couple of years ago. I was riding my ATV up the trail about 2:00 pm to my stand when a doe ran about 20 yards in front of me. I stopped and the buck followed paying me no attention. I grabbed a loaded magazine out of my pocket and unslung my Remington 7600 pump 30-06 and slammed it in and jacked a shell in. I looked up and the buck looked like the MM Mississippi deer on top of the doe about 50 yards away. I waited patiently for him to finish and leave his heir for the next year and when he got off, I shot him.
Did you know a moose is the largest member of the deer family? In Norway a moose is called an Elk (So a Norwegian Elkhound was bred to be a moose hunting dog). Deer have antlers which the male members grow and shed each year while members of the antelope family have horns that both male and females grow and they retain all their lives. Members of the deer family include whitetail (And Key deer which is a sort of pygmy whitetail), blacktail, mule, caribou, elk, reindeer, red deer, fallow deer, and moose and possibly a few others I am leaving out.
An add on to the false scrapes I made. I collected the sheds of the last buck I killed, each year, but never saw the buck till his last day. The three years of horn shown the same pattern of forking, and just got bigger, hunted that land for 30 years.
An Alaskan in Fairbanks told me that all Reindeer are Reindeer as long as they are behind the fence. Leave the gate open and they instantly become Caribou. ::)
TR,
I studied Wildlife Biology at Auburn and on one of our classroom walls we had all the sheds from a buck that was pen raised there on the campus. We had antlers from his first set of small spikes up for 12-14 till years till he died of old age. His antlers varied but every set had the same peculiar twist on one main beam throughout his life. The best racks he had were at about year 4 & 5. He might have more points on some racks later but they were smaller. This deer was pen raised so he had a consistent diet so forage was not an explanation for variance in size and points like you would expect in the wild. The racks still peaked then dropped off on any scoring method you'd have used. You'd have thought they would have gotten bigger to a peak then stayed there till old age set it but they did not. Anyway, our pen raised buck verifies exactly the findings you mention from the sheds on your place.
When I was with Fla. G and F. we trapped deer off of Cape Canaveral (NASA) which is located on an island. The bucks we caught all had the same pattern to the shape of the main beams. We would saw off the antlers before placing the drugged deer in the transfer boxes so that wouldn't damage the box or their skull smashing the inside with there antlers. I still have some of the antlers and from the smallest to the largest they will "nest" inside each other. Tight genetic pool!
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on May 23, 2021, 10:19:32 PM
TR,
I studied Wildlife Biology at Auburn and on one of our classroom walls we had all the sheds from a buck that was pen raised there on the campus. We had antlers from his first set of small spikes up for 12-14 till years till he died of old age. His antlers varied but every set had the same peculiar twist on one main beam throughout his life. The best racks he had were at about year 4 & 5. He might have more points on some racks later but they were smaller. This deer was pen raised so he had a consistent diet so forage was not an explanation for variance in size and points like you would expect in the wild. The racks still peaked then dropped off on any scoring method you'd have used. You'd have thought they would have gotten bigger to a peak then stayed there till old age set it but they did not. Anyway, our pen raised buck verifies exactly the findings you mention from the sheds on your place.
We had a phd at Stephan F. Austin (Dr. Kroll) that worked in deer, had one display where he kept the horns of one deer for a 7 year, or longer, collections. They show the same degradation over the years.
Deer that don't shed their antlers. I got this guy several years ago and he was probably the biggest body deer I've ever taken. Probably close to 130" I had watched him for several years and when I was bow hunting and had the opportunity I took it. His drop tine is 9 1/2 inches, Here is a little bit about them. This condition in whitetail bucks that results in antlers in velvet beyond the normal velvet-shedding date of late August to early September is usually caused by a birth defect known as cryptorchidism. In extreme cases both testicles remain in the abdominal cavity and never descend into the scrotum. The normal production of testosterone is diminished, and the antler cycle of hardening, velvet shedding, and antler casting is altered. These same results can sometimes be produced in a buck that is born normal but subsequently suffers a testicular injury.
In normal bucks, a rise in testosterone levels occurs in late summer with increasing day length. A buck responding to late summer's photoperiod (exposure to daylight) experiences a change in behavior due to the sudden elevation in testosterone in his system. The bachelor groups (https://deerassociation.com/biology-bachelor-groups/) that have been together since early the previous winter begin to separate due to more aggressive attitudes among the individuals. Antlers harden, the velvet is shed, and bucks continue to rub their antlers (and forehead glands) on bushes and small trees as a means of scent communication known as signpost behavior. As days begin to get shorter, a buck's testosterone level declines. Their antlers are shed, and the bucks become much less aggressive, and bachelor groups form again. Having lost his protective headgear, a buck has obvious survival advantages in being a member of a bachelor group
Cryptorchid bucks are different. They don't participate in the seasonal rituals of normal bucks. Because their testosterone levels remain low in early fall, their antler development is not completed, and their velvet is not shed. Cryptorchid bucks don't participate in signpost behavior by making rubs or scrapes. They lack the chemical stimulation to express their dominance and individualism. The tarsal glands (https://deerassociation.com/tarsal-glands-know/) of cryptorchid bucks are rarely stained because the bucks do not rub-urinate. Also, the necks of cryptorchid bucks do not swell as the breeding season approaches. Reproductively, they are in neutral. Antlers are not shed, and they remain in velvet year round. Furthermore, the antlers continue to grow as the animal matures.
Very old cryptorchid bucks often have numerous abnormal points giving them a "cactus" appearance. Also, enlarged antler bases are characteristic of older, cryptorchid bucks. I have seen several with antler bases in excess of 10 inches in circumference.
Cryptorchid bucks are incapable of reproducing. If allowed to mature, obviously they have the potential to provide a memorable, quality hunt.
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Antelope; the horn that you normally see is a sheath. The male certainly sheds the sheath once yearly but I know nothing concerning the female. They also don't have definition horns or antlers in the strictest definition sense, but they do deserve the nickname "speedgoat". They do have some sort of permanent underlying structure that the new horn-like sheath covers yearly, but I'd still like to know exactly what to call these particular animals. I wonder what qualifies them for whatever and exactly what they are. Anybody know?
Did you know a whitetail doe will nurse fawns other than her own? We watched 2 does 2 years ago in our backyard with 3 fawns. All three fawns nursed off both does. I suspect the old doe was mother of some and grandmother of the other and mother to the young doe but I can't prove it.
Did you know that occasionally a whitetail doe deer will grow antlers and a hen turkey will grow a beard? In most such cases the doe or hen will be sterile.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on May 25, 2021, 08:45:19 AM
Did you know that occasionally a whitetail doe deer will grow antlers and a hen turkey will grow a beard? In most such cases the doe or hen will be sterile.
Yup, I've seen photo proof of that before on the deer, but I've not seen it in the turkeys. Of course, I'm just some Turkey myself :D
I've seen both, in fact last hunting season one of my brothers shot a big doe that had 10 inch spikehorns and they still had the velvet on them!
Did you know only the pregnant female mosquito bites? Apparently the mosquito needs the blood to feed her brood. Just another case of the female of the species being the more dangerous member. :D
Arnt the male ones the big suckers that are real docile? We call them daddy long legs locally. Usually can be found hanging out on a blade of grass or house siding etc. Probably as big as a quarter in width
I've always called them mosquito hawks. The male also just finds the water (from what I'm told) and if so he's got some serious hormones making his decisions!
Boy are you guys confused or confusing me. We always called a dragonfly a "skeeter hawk" and a Granddaddy long legs was the critter about the size of a #1 buckshot that looked like a spider. Actually he is a plant eater and only has 6 legs if I remember correctly.
Colloquial terms at their finest. Depends on where you grew up as to how you learned stuff from the "older" crowd, now we're teachers ;)
That time of the year in Texas.
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TR,
Here I was trying to figure what kind of bugs were on the plant when suddenly I realized there was a long scaly creature coming over the gutter. ;)
WV, don't feel bad, cause I was too!
Quote from: Texas Ranger on May 26, 2021, 12:20:16 PM
That time of the year in Texas.
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That appears to be a snakecicle.
Did you know a cottontail rabbit builds a "nest" in a shallow depression on the surface of the ground, lines it with fur from her body and gives birth to and raises the babies in it? We had a neighbor when we first moved to WV with a Jack Russel terrier who would find baby rabbits in the nest but would not harm them. The kids would bring them to my wife who raised several using powdered bitches milk and a 2 ounce glass Evenflo bottle with a soft rubber nipple we'd get from our local vet.
Did you know bears are omnivores? I posted this in more detail on Sawguys Surprise visitor thread.
For those of you who watch Swamp People catching alligators using set hooks baited with rotting meat, fish, chicken, etc. the original way to hunt alligators was primarily to still hunt them? My grandfather was a gator hunter in central Florida and he would find a gator hole or den typically in or near a sinkhole in the limestone riddled country of central Fla. He would ease up to the site and "Set them up" as he described it. He would sit quietly till the gator surfaced then he would shoot it and jump in and pull it out. He also had a pole with a hook he would use to retrieve his dead gators. Sometimes people would hunt on the rivers and lakes at night "Fire-hunting" them looking for their eyes and easing up on them and shooting them. He said about the time he quit gator hunting to become one of Florida's early game wardens people had started putting out hooks with beef "lights" on them for bait. I don't believe he ever used that technique. As a kid we thrilled at listening to him telling of hunting and killing big gators and several near misses he had. He said he was down in a gator hole poking around with a pole trying to find where and the direction of the den when a big gator came out and charged him. He said it grabbed a man sized piece of driftwood beside him and tried to take it back in his den and got it crossways and he jumped on its back and shot it.
Were it not for the fact that we all know that all members of this forum are totally honest and of impecable character, that might be viewed as a fish/gator story. My concern is that WV is a confessed fisherman and some fisherman have at times told some real fish stories. :D :D On the other hand if Grandpa told it it must be true.
Purely for educational and entertainment purposes I may have, on very rare occasions ::), been known to slightly "embellish" certain aspects of my recollections of various events but I never knew my grandfather to engage in such practices. Now when my dad was telling a tall tale ....
I remember Grandpa said he had a lady hide buyer who paid top prices for gator hides but she would always dock him $1/hide for a cut place in the hide. Her prices were still better than other buyers so he always tried to sell to her. He was a little embarrassed (Probably where I got my shy streak from) but he finally explained to the lady that was not a cut, it was the gator's anus and it was always going to be there. She said she had never thought about that and wondered why all the gator hunters were so careless when skinning their catch as she always docked everyone for the cut in the hide. Nobody had ever explained it to her. After that she dropped her purchase price $1/hide but stopped docking everyone for a cut hide.
Sort of like fur buyers who would look at a pretty decent Red Fox pelt and say that they can't pay a good price because the fur was weak on the neck. That is the way all foxes are.
Did you know wildlife can become habituated to humans? A truly wild animal will almost always react to the presence of humans. He will either run or nervously walk away or in some cases he will attack if he feels threatened or thinks of the human as prey. In places where humans and animals frequently come into contact with each other the animals become habituated and basically ignore the people around them. Places like National Parks are good examples of habituated animals. Think of Yellowstone and all the animals coming into contact with humans. The same is true in big game parks like Kruger in Africa.
This does not mean the animals are tame! This is a big mistake many tourists make. They see the animal at very close range and it is ignoring them so they decide to get a selfie with the nice wooly bison, elk, moose, or black or grizzly bear and when they get so close the animal feels threatened it defends itself or its young. You read accounts almost weekly about some foreign tourist (Japanese are a favorite because they seem to want a selfie of everything they see or do) or a dumb American thinking the Park rules on distances to maintain from the animals are a "suggestion" and don't really apply to them and they get trampled, gored or eaten.
We visited The Central African Republic around 2002 and were allowed to go with WWF researchers tracking Lowland Gorillas. The gorillas were habituated as the trackers followed them every day recording what they did and what they ate and such. We were warned if we got too close the silverback would charge and we were to kneel down and not make eye contact because he considered that a threat. Sure enough almost immediately when we got to them one of the trackers got too close to a juvenile (It is very hard to see a coal black, fuzzy animal in the dark shadows in the jungle) and it jumped up, screamed and ran. The massive silverback immediately ran out of the forest ripping up small trees and hooting loudly and beating his chest. He looked to weigh about 500 lbs with 4' long arms and rippling chest muscles. I complied and knelt down got real interested in the bugs around my shoes. He came within about 10-12 feet with his mock charge, stopped after he felt we were well warned and turned around and walked back on his knuckles. My wife got a picture of his butt as he walked away. The week before he had walked up to one of the trackers in a similar incident and "bopped" him on the head with his fist. Not hard enough to hurt him but enough to let him know he was not welcome. From the looks of the silverback I speculated he could have ripped every limb from my body and never broken a sweat.
Sharon, that's gonna leave a mark!
An infamous quote from Ozzy Osborne to his wife Sharon.
Did you know tomato seeds will survive being eaten, passed through the digestive system, processed through a commercial waste treatment plant (WTP) and still sprout and grow?
I shared a company provided house with Fred who ran the WTP on a project in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. He was an avid gardener and would bring home big bags of the treated waste which was light weight, gray and odorless and looked sort of like crumbled charcoal only lighter in color. He always had a large number of tomatoes that sprouted and grew from this treated waste.
The waste was filtered, stirred into a slurry and air was added in a big tank digestor system. The bacteria broke down the waste. The slurry was pumped into sand filled drying beds to a depth of about 18". The sand filtered the water which was collected through a system of perforated piping and the clear odorless IW was used to water the plants on the project.
We had a pair of large, beautiful, Grey Crowned Crane (National Bird of Uganda in case you are ever on a game show - if you win using this info remember 5% of your winnings goes the FF and you can split the rest with me which is much cheaper than if this info came from some of our Mississippi or Kansas members.) who would wade in the drying slurry. One of our resident characters was an Irishman named Joe Cosgrave. He said they were our S__t testing birds and said if you watched one would wade around, lift one foot, shake it vigorously and say to the other bird "This one needs a little more work." Then he would hop over the divider and do the same with the next batch till finally he would tell his mate "Yep, this one is ready" and our Filipino skid steer operator would jump in his machine and go collect the dry, crumbly waste and dump it into a waiting metal dumpster to be taken to the land fill. (They might have had some more scientific method they used to double check the bird's accuracy but I am not aware of it.)
I had assigned a Bangladeshi janitor to work there at the WTP and he decided the birds would fetch a huge price from some wealthy Saudi sheik or such and chased them trying to catch one. He scared them off and the Filipino work force were so mad I had to reassign him for fear he would end up in the digestor tank. I don't know if the Filipino workers were animal lovers or just mad that they had to go back to using their alternate waste treatment testing processes.
I worked at a WW II era sewage plant once upon a time. It was at an Army installation built for training troops, had a huge capacity but we only used part of it. The dried sludge will sure make grass grow! And we had tomato plants in the sludge beds.
I am sure I have mentioned this here on on another thread but did you know a Jack Russel Terrier is one of the more popular dogs in southern Africa? They are excellent snake catchers included really wicked ones there. Also many professional hunters use them to track and bay wounded leopards in the bush. A pack of hounds will find and hold the cat but you can expect to lose a few dogs in the process. The JRTs are so fast they can yip and dodge and annoy and distract the cat till the PH can ease in and dispatch him.
Did you know that many birds, especially when nesting, are very territorial and establish clearly defined boundaries within which the chase off birds of the same species and sometimes expand this protection to other species of birds an animals? I grew up in N. Fla and we had lots of Mockingbirds and when nesting you could watch one fly a circuit from specific points such as a fence post to a powerline to a limb on a tree to a tv antenna, etc. At each point the bird would sing a few notes, move and repeat. Any unwanted visitor was quickly attacked and sent packing.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 02, 2021, 09:42:00 PM
Did you know that many birds, especially when nesting, are very territorial and establish clearly defined boundaries within which the chase off birds of the same species and sometimes expand this protection to other species of birds an animals? I grew up in N. Fla and we had lots of Mockingbirds and when nesting you could watch one fly a circuit from specific points such as a fence post to a powerline to a limb on a tree to a tv antenna, etc. At each point the bird would sing a few notes, move and repeat. Any unwanted visitor was quickly attacked and sent packing.
White breasted nut hatches were freaking out yesterday, looked over and a blue jay was trying to poke inside the nest box to see what was there, birds were having none of it but blue jays are much bigger. I shooed him off for them, as they were pretty stressed :D blue jays are jerks! They have a lot of personality that’s for sure. I’ve seen flocks of chickadees, nutnhatches, blue jays, etc all collude together to chase of bigger birds like crows, Hawks etc. Grackles are fearless too, I routinely watch just one chase off 2-3 ravens every few days, ravens will try to dive bomb and spin to lose em but the grackle always gains ground and nips him :D. Ravens can’t do nothing as the grackle is too small and fast so all they can do is try to escape!
Remember a blue jay is basically a colorful crow and you will understand him better. They are sort of first cousins and in the same small family sub-group in the bird kingdom.
Did you know it is often not advisable (I read it about Blue bird nest boxes IIRC) to install a perch in front of the entrance hole. It looks nice and you think it is a homey touch for your birdy renter but it also allows/makes it easier for predator birds and such, like blue jays to access and kill the young or steal the eggs. Check with the experts about the various specifications before building nest boxes to make you feathered home site as attractive and safe for your guests as possible.
How right you are about the perch!!!
I like jays! They have tons of personality and every family of em makes their own little noises, they sun bath in my yard too :D
The only thing I don't like about blue jays is all the other birds that come to my feeder is scared of them. All the other birds will eat almost side by side. A blue jay come by and all the others disappear.
Quote from: thecfarm on June 03, 2021, 06:12:46 AM
The only thing I don't like about blue jays is all the other birds that come to my feeder is scared of them. All the other birds will eat almost side by side. A blue jay come by and all the others disappear.
I agree, they are feeder hogs. Last summer I had about 25 that would show up, I had at one point 17 in my yard, it was nuts, 3 or 4 families of them battle royal for the feeder
You can all have my share of the world's blue jays! They steal pecans, they eat your figs and other fruit and did I mention they are a first cousin to a crow?
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 03, 2021, 04:42:50 PM
You can all have my share of the world's blue jays! They steal pecans, they eat your figs and other fruit and did I mention they are a first cousin to a crow?
I'll trade my army of squirrels and chipmunks for them lol no shortage of those tree/trunk rats
I have plenty of chipmunks but can always use a few more squirrels. I'm thinking I may trap some munks the next time my GS comes you to "help" me. I figure that is a good project for us to undertake.
Did You Know that chipmunks eat baby birds? Researchers studying nesting Barn Swallows in New Yorks' Adirondack region found that if a baby swallow got bumped out of a crowded nest before it could fly and ended up on the ground, the chipmunks would get it. Red Squirrels are predators of eggs and nestlings as well. WV, you can knock the chipmunks numbers with rat snap traps and peanut butter.
Did not know that but makes sense. I saw a grey squirrel carrying a dead baby bird in front of the library at AU in the mid 70's when I was a student there.
I'd want to live trap the chipmunks with my grandson.
I'm not sure why you'd want squirrels imo they are even more destructive than chipmunks :D
Maybe you guys don't have the red squirrels. They are fiesty little suckers.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 03, 2021, 09:25:03 PM
Did not know that but makes sense. I saw a grey squirrel carrying a dead baby bird in front of the library at AU in the mid 70's when I was a student there.
I'd want to live trap the chipmunks with my grandson.
My grandfather use to catch chipmunks with the classic old stick holding up a box of some sorts, and yanking string tied to the stick when it goes for the bait under the box :D
He would then drive them away and realease them. Yeah I don't have the time for that too many and too much destructiveness
Just carefully dispatch them fudd-smiley :rifle: and then C&C. When done properly, good eating. Done wrong, some of the worst.
It's not always possible due to improper shooting lanes available, not to mention the neighbors safety.
Just a thought laugh_at
Quote from: Tacotodd on June 04, 2021, 06:07:54 AM
Just carefully dispatch them fudd-smiley :rifle: and then C&C. When done properly, good eating. Done wrong, some of the worst.
It's not always possible due to improper shooting lanes available, not to mention the neighbors safety.
Just a thought laugh_at
I actually tried one for the first time about 6 months ago. I cleaned it up boiled the meat then fried it like chicken. I hear dumplings are big too
I have caught several and the ones I caught did not try to bite. I don't know why not as any other squirrel would eat you up. The same is true with cottontail rabbits I have caught. They did not bite but I stuck my finger in the pen of a big tame rabbit wiggling his nose at me one time and he like to took my finger off.
Squirrels were the prototype for gremlins in the movie.
I think I've read somewhere that Red Squirrels take enough bird nestlings in some areas that it impacts bird populations. And there are places in the Rocky Mts. where there are no Red Squirrels (which eat conifer seeds, as do crossbill birds). Areas with no RS have more crossbills. Red Crossbills and White-winged Crossbills occur sporadically in New York. They are nomadic, wandering over wide areas in search of stands of conifers with a good cone crop to feed on.
Did you know fox squirrels come in several color variations based on different regions of the country? Here in this part of WV and where I grew up in NW Fla they were a reddish gray color with a black mask. Around Albany Ga they were a light grey and almost white with a dark mask on their faces. In some areas I understand they are almost completely black.
Here they are a very light gray with black heads.
Danny,
Well they should be! You are only about 75 miles from Albany so I am sure they have common ancestors. The ones that ran and escaped you and your relatives when you were kids with your BB guns, slingshots and .22 rifles made it to Albany a long time ago and started the population there. :D
Exactly! They had to migrate.
Quote from: WDH on June 05, 2021, 08:00:29 AM
Exactly! They had to migrate.
Ya mean run for their lives!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11566/31207F9E-3DB6-4BC5-A88B-3ACB0F689484.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1622925246)
Run for your lives. :D
Speaking of color variants, took this picture of a brown sheep. He is on the far left, the one that Thanksgiving dinner is running toward. It's face is the same shade of caramel brown. Never saw one like that.
Did you know that whitetail deer, especially the does with young around the area, make a loud, wheezing, sneezy call when alarmed? They will repeat this warning several to many times in most cases.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 05, 2021, 10:51:16 PM
Did you know that whitetail deer, especially the does with young around the area, make a loud, wheezing, sneezy call when alarmed? They will repeat this warning several to many times in most cases.
It's a fast exhale through nostrils, I hear this from them often.
They are just clearing their nose because something stinks.
Quote from: WDH on June 06, 2021, 06:25:32 AM
They are just clearing their nose because something stinks.
Makes sense, I'm typically burning grass when they do it :D
Did you know when an old whitetail doe "busts" you she will walk slowly toward you stomping her front foot? I guess when she does this to a predator it makes him nervous and causes him to charge prematurely and she has a much better chance of escaping. Foot stomping is often accompanied by or immediately followed with snorting/sneezing/air intaking because she smelled Danny, etc.
What surprised me was watching a cow waterbuck in Kenya in 12" tall grass doing the same exact technique when she smelled a leopard in the area. I think the leopard had already left or was just not interested in her as it never charged.
On the black squirrels, when we were building a couple of houses just south of Lake Superior almost all the squirrels in the nearby town were jet black, something the locals took pride in pointing out. I just looked it up, interesting reasoning on cold tolerance, it sure got cold up there!
Black squirrel - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_squirrel)
We were working near an old relatively short portage that would connect from the lakes, through a flowage system, to the Mississippi.
I know that almost all of the ones on campus at UALR are black. I was told at one time that it was a different kind of albino-ism, but I don't think that it's true. Does anyone knows one way or the other?
Todd,
I think you are saying the same thing Don P is saying above. It is a genetic condition that causes the black phase just like an albino. It makes sense if that trait helps the animal survive by keeping it warmer in cold climates, helping it hide better in the snow, becoming a protected animal due to social issues or superstitions (It was bad juju to kill a white buffalo or grizzly bear as I remember) it will will pass along those genes and if it mates with a like animal they will breed true to this trait. They will normally breed with other animals of their species but the young will most likely be normal colors.
I think I read somewhere in Africa villagers were plagued with baboons destroying the crops, poultry, etc. so they caught a baboon and painted him white and turned him loose. Being very social animals it kept trying to return to his troop but the other baboons were scared of him so they kept scattering and running away and eventually left the area. I won't swear this is true but it is a good tale.
Did you know a black panther is such a melanistic phase of an African or Asian leopard or a South American jaguar.
an albino lacks all pigment and will have pink eyes with blue sclera (instead of white). the are also white squirrels (not albino) with white fur. The black squirrels have two of the black fur genes (jet black) or 1 gene and have black mixed in the brown. area that have a lot would be due to some natural advantage or good camo in a darker colored habitat. If they survive better than other colors, even though this would be mathematically a smaller proportion, if more of them live then the mutant gene becomes more prev. so kind of the opposite of an albino, and a genetic characteristic.
so 2 black furred squirrels would have all back offspring. 1 back furred parent with a normal (no gene for black fur) parent would have none. a black furred parent with a brown/black parent would have 50% black furred offspring. and a pair of brown/black parents (with only 1 black gene each) would have a 25% of a black furred offspring. now we remember why we did not go into genetics. :P ::) ??? :o :)
Doc,
Now I will have nightmares remembering my genetics class. All my fruit flies died and the teacher gave me fabricated data to use to determine they had curly wing trait. It was a very rough period in my life and I was perfectly happy to never remember it again. Thanks a lot! You're a real pal. >:( "May you discover pinholes in all your right hand rubber gloves. ;D
:) :) :)
Did you know the African waterbuck has a thick shaggy coat of loose hair that sometimes emit a musky, greasy, foul smelling substance that makes it very unattractive to predators? Most predators will not attack one because it is very difficult to get through the loose hair to eat the meat anyway. I guess it would be kind of like us having to eat a skunk or such. It could be done but is not a particularly attractive option if there is any other game around.
Howard, I've known dogs with a coat like that!
Did you know this is the time of year most whitetail fawns are born in WV? Unfortunately it is also the peak of haying season and a significant number are killed during the haying process. Does deliver and park newborn and very young fawns in the tall grass and when very young the fawns will not move until literally stepped on. When the mowers cut the hay the fawns remain in place and are injured or killed by the mowers. I had one neighbor that tried making a "tickler" out of PVC pipe and dangling chains he'd drive in front of the tractor. When the chains touched the fawn it would jump up and run. It had limited success and was costly to operate as it meant another operator and transporting another piece of equipment to and from the fields which were often located far from the farmers home. Many local farmers may cut hay in 10-15 different fields scattered over the county. For the years when weather conditions force hay cutting to be delayed the fawns have a much better chance of survival as older fawns will break and run quicker and survive the haying operation better. My feed dealer told me this week he had 14 fawns killed in one field a year or so back. You will always see vultures and crows circling and landing in the hay fields here eating dead fawns and snakes and such killed during the process.
Did you know that free ranging hogs were marked by cutting specific notches in their ears? These marks were registered with the county and were legal proof of ownership in court. When selling fresh pork my father said the seller had to have the head present to show it was his hog. A stolen hog with such notches was supposedly the start of the Hatfield and McCoy feud a little west and north of here.
Hog traps that looked like Lincoln log structures were built in strategic locations and hogs were fed around them. In the Spring and Fall they would be baited and the hogs caught. In the Spring the new pigs were caught, boar pigs were castrated and all had their ears notched showing ownership. In the Fall adult hogs were trapped, penned and fattened and butchered for the winter meat or sold as appropriate.
My mom has had a couple of instances of skin cancer on her ears over the last several years with surgery and plastic surgery required to remove the cancer and affected skin. I told her she needed to go to the county office and re-register her mark. I am not sure she appreciated the comment.
Did you know Trichinosis is a type of infection where a species of roundworm infects the muscles of the meat eating host? This is why you are always warned not to eat undercooked pork. Bears are also a carrier of Trichinosis so be equally carefully if you are cooking a bear steak or sausage. To be safe be sure to cook bear or pork to temperatures of 165 degrees or more.
In some cases beef or other animals can become infected with Trichinosis by mixing under cooked pork in their feed.
Did you know lights are used as a fish attracter? Throughout the south (and maybe up in the glatiated northern climes) people living along lake shores often attach long fluorescent lights to their docks just a couple of feet above the water level. When they want to fish they turn the lights on at dusk and the lights attract insects which fall in the water attracting small baitfish which in turn attracts crappie, bass, and other such predator fish. There have been heated disputes including shots being fired, between land/dock owners using such lights to attract fish and fishermen in boats who see the lights and come fish there too.
My derelict buddy in Cordele Ga along Lake Blackshear had lights on his docks and it was common to see bass up to 10 lbs just under the surface feeding and resting. He did not worry about other fishermen getting his fish because he had installed a "lure catcher" - a roll of old used field fence nailed under his dock. When a city slicker in a $20K bass boat pitched his $10 gonna catch em all bass lure under there it was not coming out. In January they typically lowered the level of the water to work on the hydro power equipment at the dam and Jack would go out and pick all the lures free from his trap. He'd get hundreds of dollars worth of lures each season.
I remember fishing there with Jack and his wife Patty and got my beetle spin hooked in Jack's jaw and telling him to be very careful getting it free as it was my best lure. I can't repeat here his opinion of my favorite lure but suffice it to say he did not share my opinion of it. It did not help that for the next couple of hours every time Patty would look back she would laugh when she'd see the pink spot in his white beard.
Back to the problem of mowing machines chopping up critters, yes it's a real shame. Many birds and critters get killed that way every year. And, yes, a rainy spell often delays mowing so that the young can grow up and evade the mower. You can't hate the farmer who wants early cut hay that is tender and nutritious. The mower is truly a double-edged sword in that mowing maintains grassland habitat instead of reverting back to shrubs and trees. But it also is rough on creatures whose babies are in the path of the mower. Landowners who want to mow a field just to keep succession from turning it back to shrubs and trees can hold off mowing until late summer when the fawns, rabbits, birds, etc. are grown.
KEC,
I certainly don't blame my farmer neighbors. They do everything they can to prevent it - like the one with the "tickler" on the ATV. They love and respect the wildlife too. They will often start cutting in/from the center and make their cuts to the outside to push the critters out of the fields rather than trapping them in a smaller and smaller patch in the middle. Besides, the critters damage their equipment and cost them time and money on repairs.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 12, 2021, 12:31:12 PM
KEC,
I certainly don't blame my farmer neighbors. They do everything they can to prevent it - like the one with the "tickler" on the ATV. They love and respect the wildlife too. They will often start cutting in/from the center and make their cuts to the outside to push the critters out of the fields rather than trapping them in a smaller and smaller patch in the middle. Besides, the critters damage their equipment and cost them time and money on repairs.
Can't help but wonder maybe a sheep dog or something could be trained to "scan" the area and bark/chase deer out.
WV, I didn't think in any way that you begrudge farmers. Some people might though. I grew up on a dairy farm and we felt bad for the critters.
Hemlock,
That sounds like a great idea but a newborn or very young fawn has very little scent and they will not move from where they are parked until you literally step on one of them. A barking dog in the area would have no effect on a parked fawn. That is part of nature's defense for it. I don't think a sheep dog would ever smell one - if he did a coyote or fox or bobcat would have already smelled and eaten them. Remember these are large fields and many are not near homes where housedogs or such would smell them. I had a fawn that raised just on the other side of my yard fence 2 years ago and within 35 yards of my house. My Rat Terrier, Sampson, was in the back yard the whole time.
KEC,
I never thought you felt I was being critical. If others want to criticize the farmers they should come up with a system to protect the animals. The farmers would thank them for it if it was anywhere near reasonable and cost effective. I want the farmers to keep doing what they do for us. I have several habits I can't break - like eating and drinking milk and I like my ice cream from time to time. The deer park their fawns in the hayfields because they think it is safer than leaving them in the woodline adjacent to it and most of the time they probably are. I don't know what % of the fawns get hurt or killed in this process but it is likely fairly small overall .
And PLEASE teach little ones not to hide from equipment working in those fields. Make sure they understand they have to be seen. There was a tragedy in my family before I was born. Really it goes for any of us on equipment. A shy young special needs boy ducked behind my skidsteer the other week and was walking right behind me, luckily I caught him out of the corner of my eye. We had a friendly conversation and I made sure he understood that he has to see me seeing him. PSA for the day, back to our program :)
We had a tragedy here a few years ago. A good friend of mine backed over his young grandson that was "helping" him with the farm chores. The grandfather never recovered and was an "empty man" for the rest of his life. :'(
Just a thought. If you want to see a bird or animal skeedadle, just get after them with compressed air with the nozzle like you use to blow dirt out of something. So what are the odds that you could have a compressor on the tractor with a line running to a long wand sticking out in front of the mower. And a gadget like on a water sprinkler so that the hissing sound goes off and on. Much might depend on how fast the tractor and mower are moving forward. What do you think?
KEC,
Nice thought. I'm no engineer. How big a compressor would it take to blow a path 10-12 ft wide which is pretty common for these tractors and mowers and haying equipment around here? As to the speed they are moving pretty fast. A deer would have time to jump up and run away of the air were projected 10' in front of the tractor I would think.
I saw a black bear this week down in the bottom below the sawmill, pretty rare to see one in that area. Then it dawned on me how many times I've spooked fawns down there, i'd bet he was looking for dinner.
Several years ago I was running the tractor and bush hog around to a new neighbors place about this time of year. I had it in road gear and running close to wide open on the blacktop when I startled a bear. It hopped up into the road with a fawn in its last twitches. The healthy sized bear dropped the fawn and skeedaddled up the road in front of me. I had an unopened can of Mt Dew for defense and I'm gaining on the bear but also not wanting to change the tone of the tractor for fear it might just turn around. So up the road we go with me right on its heels and he's running flat out :D. After a few hundred feet of that there was a break in the roadbank and he hightailed it up the bank. On my way home that evening the fawn was gone so I assume he circled back. I think that was the same ill fated mowing session where I found an antique cast iron intake manifold that I failed to cut but it sure tore up some parts and deck.
Did you know that skunks have very poor eyesight? If you are very careful you can sneak up behind them and grab them by the tail and lift them quick enough they cannot spray. Warning - when you grab for the tail, don't miss!
Our daughter and SIL and their 2 kids came up this weekend. As the left and I walked back to the house I spotted this fawn in the pasture right behind the yard fence about 35-40 yards from the house. I have seen the doe near there several times over the last couple of weeks and figured she had a fawn nearby but this is the first I have seen of it. I watched it several minutes then my wife and walked down and got a couple of pictures before it ran off.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2583~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1623689152)
I hate the grandkids missed seeing it. I took them fishing and on a boat ride on Bluestone Lake yesterday.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/Quin_first_fish.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1623689248)
My grandson caught his first fish, a real monster as you can see. (Now if I can just get that line free from that tree top before we stir up the wasps nest beside it!)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/Lyric_fishing_with_Grandpa.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1623688234)
His 28 month old sister was pretty full of herself then she had to try and caught a couple about the same size.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/Lyric_in_boat_after_catch_first_fish~0.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1623688384)
Then we took a ride up the lake which she said was "Amazing". Sampson is resting in the background. It was a great trip and I hope for many happy returns.
Beautiful lake!! Looks like a fun time, good memories.
Good on you, Sir.
Did you know when cleaning a catfish there is a nice little fillet or at least a nice catfish nugget on each cheek? When you clean the fish go ahead and split the skin down the center of his head then pull the skin down over his eyes and peel off the meat with a fillet knife or pocketknife. On a large catfish, say 20 lbs or so, it is nice thick fillet. Even on a 3-4 lb fish you can get a chunk of meat off each side the size of a couple of fingers. It is not hard to recover and there is no reason to waste it.
Quote from: Tacotodd on May 24, 2021, 12:04:35 PM
Antelope; the horn that you normally see is a sheath. The male certainly sheds the sheath once yearly but I know nothing concerning the female. They also don't have definition horns or antlers in the strictest definition sense, but they do deserve the nickname "speedgoat". They do have some sort of permanent underlying structure that the new horn-like sheath covers yearly, but I'd still like to know exactly what to call these particular animals. I wonder what qualifies them for whatever and exactly what they are. Anybody know?
Our "antelope" in the USA are not a true antelope, but a whole other species. Where I live they are common, and I've taken a few with my archery equipment. They have bone core that the "horn" sheath made of hair and a glue like substance to hold it together grows around. Many times we've found their "sheds" in early November after the September rut.
@tmarch (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=25417) Well that got me looking where you were from. Crawford, NE, man that sounded familiar... Ft Robinson, Toadstool, The buffalo jump. You've got a few "did you knows" :)
Yep, not much for typing so not much for responding. Kinda a hobby sawmill operator, but I have learned a few things in my 72 years of hunting and wildlife experiences. ;) Interesting things the experts have brought up here, and I appreciate that.
tmarch,
By all means share that wealth of knowledge with us. We'd all love to hear from you on the unusual things you've encountered. One thing I can share again is unless you have always wondered how you'd look with an earring - be sure to put down that skinning or fillet knife before swatting when cleaning fish and game and buzzing and biting insects are in the area. ::)
Did you know they have barbel runs in the Okavango Delta in Botswana when huge schools of barbels (African name for catfish) hunt in packs? Apparently they surround schools of bait fish and demolish them. Lots of tourists come over to fish for them and the locals get out and catch them. I remember one episode of Monster Fish Jeremy Wade went over to try to determine the cause of death for a boatload of local tribesmen and they discussed the barbel run and even showed a bunch of them attacking bait fish. Jeremy was wondering if the barbels turned the boat over and killed the people. I think they finally decided it was more likely hippos than barbels at fault. I was fishing with ultra-light tackle and a small jig spinner catching baby tiger fish till a mother hippo and her calf drifted into the area and we had to leave. I never got another bite after I left that spot.
Did you know that a flathead catfish will normally only bite a live bait? If fishing for them do not use cut bait although they will bite a worm and you will sometimes catch them on an artificial bait that mimics a live bait. Channel and blue catfish will bite a live bait but they will also bite cut bait and we used to even catch them on Camay, Ivory or Octogon bar soap. I guess they are attracted to the oil/fats used in making the soap. My dad used to mostly use shrimp for bait on his bush hooks and sometimes cut mullet till he learned they would bite soap. After that that was all he would use because he did not catch any turtles, eels, gars, bowfins, etc that he considered trash and a nuisance. I used to bait with mullet then I would use the "trash" fish I caught and cut them up for bait so it was a self sustaining project. After the first night I'd catch enough bait to keep running my lines as long as I wanted to do so.
Did you ever encounter a Mayfly hatch on your local lake? Where they are common they hatch by the millions and land in clusters on the bushes over the water. Many fall in the lake where they are consumed by waiting fish. Around here during a big hatch it will look like every square foot of the waters surface will have either a dead mayfly or a mayfly shell.
When the hatch is at its peak a really exciting and fun way to catch bluegills and such feeding on the mayflies is to run your boat next to a bush covered with mayflies and give it a sharp rap with a paddle or long cane pole. The air will be filled with flying mayflies and many fall in the water causing an absolute feeding frenzy on and near the surface. Back off a few feet and toss a topwater fly or cork popping bug on a fly rod under the bush and stand by! Or toss a piece of a worm or cricket on a long shanKed wire #6-10 cricket hook under a float with a bb shot set from 1-2 ft deep. Another option is to toss a jig spinner on ultralite tackle into the mix. I prefer to use a piece of crawfish tail, cut chunk of a minnow, cricket or worm on the jig hook instead of the plastic twisty tail. I find the spinner attracts the fish then the "meat" seals the deal. Good luck and good fishing.
WV, that whole sneak up and catch the blind skunk by the tail bit sounds like, well a tale😂 Can you share with us when you've actually tried the technique? If you're talking about bush hooks I can tell you know plenty about them to be giving advice, however not many stories related about catching skunks by the tail...
Barbender,
I had showed and described the skunk catching to my son and when he was in his teens he was driving home with his buddy and spotted one about a mile from home. There was a high bank there it was having trouble climbing so he jumped out and caught it by the tail and hung it out the passenger window of of our old Pontiac Catalina and let Josh drive home. When he got home he rushed in to show to Ruth a former Norwegian exchange student who was back for a visit. Ruth was less than thrilled and told him to get rid of it. He went back out along the walkway with the dog fences on both sides and the dogs were barking and the skunk started to climb up its tail so he put it down for a better grip. In the process it sprayed the walk and stunk up the whole yard and it bit him on the R index finger then escaped into the pasture. Because it escaped he had to get the Rabies shots in the finger then one a week in each quadrant for 4 weeks. (R arm, L arm, L hip, R hip). After insurance our medical co-pay was $800 so my wife was less than thrilled again.
About a year later he caught 3 baby coons on his way back from fishing and they got loose in the house as soon as he walked in. I grabbed one, he grabbed one and Josh grabbed one. My wife yelled at him "Sean, you're going to mess around and we will all get rabies!" He immediately replied "Not me, I've had my shots." Not the smartest reply he ever made!
The last time I personally caught one was on a field exercise at Camp LeJeune NC near Jacksonville in 1989 not long before I left the USMC. We had several in my supply dump and in the camp and I caught one next to the G-1 tent (A WM LtCol) who wanted it gone. My son caught a baby one here after they had killed the mother. We tried to get it de-musked but the vets would not do it without a permit and DNR would not give us one. They did give Sean one for his pet coon.
EDIT: BTW - it distresses me greatly that you would challenge the veracity of my recollections in such a fashion. :( >:( :D
Did you know whitetail deer have different colored coats in the summer and winter? This time of year they have a very red colored coat. In early Fall their color changes to brownish grey which makes them very hard to see in the winter foliage background colors. I understand the darker color being a good defense mechanism but do not know any advantage of the bright red colors which make them very easy to see this time of year.
WV, that's more like it. Details. I was just looking for details😊 That response of your son's😂😂 My Grandpa had a friend that had a de-musked skunk. He said it kind of acted like a cat, and was quite friendly. Also that the older it got, the wider it got in the hind end and got to be a pretty good wedge shape from nose to butt, it would always get itself wedged in and stuck between stuff in the house and require assistance😂
My dad said he he had a co-worker who offered to sell a de-musked skunk to one of the foremen for a pet. The foreman bought it and put it in his car at work and came back and found it had sprayed his car. They said he tried to get the smell out but never could and finally sold the car because of it. He said they all joked with him about it but said he'd get mad every time somebody mentioned it.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 19, 2021, 04:59:49 PM
My dad said he he had a co-worker who offered to sell a de-musked skunk to one of the foremen for a pet. The foreman bought it and put it in his car at work and came back and found it had sprayed his car. They said he tried to get the smell out but never could and finally sold the car because of it. He said they all joked with him about it but said he'd get mad every time somebody mentioned it.
I’m not sure why anyone would want a pet skunk lol hilarious
Raccoons I sort of understand but they are still horrible as pets imo
From everyone I ever talked to who had a pet skunk they said they make great pets. I think a boiled egg is their favorite treat. We've had coons and squirrels, flying squirrels, possums, rabbits, a red-bellied woodpecker, a screech owl, and a pet deer which was free to come and go. The coons had about the most personality but the deer was the sweetest pet. Possums smile a lot but they drool too much and are really dumb pets.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 19, 2021, 05:20:46 PM
From everyone I ever talked to who had a pet skunk they said they make great pets. I think a boiled egg is their favorite treat. We've had coons and squirrels, flying squirrels, possums, rabbits, a red-bellied woodpecker, a screech owl, and a pet deer which was free to come and go. The coons had about the most personality but the deer was the sweetest pet. Possums smile a lot but they drool too much and are really dumb pets.
The woodpecker and screech owl sound like cool pets, I'm not a fan of red squirrels, gray squirrels are alright because they are quiet lol
There was a guy not far from me who "went viral" on YouTube for feeding about 30 coons at once with a couple pounds of hot dogs. They sounds fierce and savage but they didn't kill him for them lol
I caught another coon in a live trap last night a relocated him up to the lake. He is lucky I did not just send him to Happy Mountain. He is pretty dumb to get caught. I guess he was stealing Sampson's food as that is where I had the traps set. He could have walked 100 yards or so up the creek and had all the catfish heads and guts he could eat and have been doing a community service. The coons, possums, buzzards and bears need to clean it up before my wife finds where I dumped it in the creek instead of back in the woods or she will be all over me.
Did you know the most obvious difference between a moth and a butterfly is their antennae? Butterflies have straight antenna with enlarged clubs that look like of like a match head at the end. A moth's antenna looks like a wide TV antenna with many fingers sticking out. An excellent example of a moth antenna is over on the sister thread Jeff posted about "Something Beautiful" where he posted pictures of a big colorful moth and you can clearly see the antennas.
Did you know that the quills on a baby porcupine and the spines on a hedgehog are soft and flexible at birth? They harden shortly after birth. I guess if not it would be an awful painful childbirth.
I remember hedgehogs from when we lived in West Germany, but have never seen any here in America. Maybe we are too far South?
The only place I ever lived/worked where they were present was in Saudi Arabia. Then again, I am way south and east of any porcupines too. Since I have commented about moose and bears and other critters that don't live here I figured I'd add it here.
The intent of this thread is to list observations about the outdoors (animals, plants, insects, etc) no matter where they come from. If you've noticed we have members here from all over the world and I'd love to see comments from everyone. It is amazing to compare the similarities and differences from other places. I know I was amazed to see a cow waterbuck in Kenya acting exactly the same way our old whitetail does do here.
Did you know malaria is caused by mosquitos biting an infected host, flying to another person and injecting a small amount of the infected blood into the new host causing them to catch the disease too? Did you know people used to think it was caused by breathing swamp air in infected areas and was called Blackwater fever in Africa. In the southern US States it was called ague. Before doctors realized it was caused/carried by mosquitos they thought it came from breathing the "Bad air" hence the Italian name Mala aria which means bad air.
Did you know a bobcat or bear will sometimes get into a parked car searching for food? We had a half-grown bobcat get into a Willy's station wagon in N. Fla we had left an old boat in and evidently it smelled fish and was looking for a meal. I heard one guy said he knew of a bobcat getting into a ragtop Jeep in Alabama then getting scared and ripped the cover to shreds. We had monkeys get into the back of our pick-up in Namibia. I started to load some gear and it charged and I ducked and it jumped right over me to escape. Be careful to be sure to keep those windows and doors closed when you park outdoors.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 23, 2021, 09:20:30 AM
Did you know a bobcat or bear will sometimes get into a parked car searching for food? We had a half-grown bobcat get into a Willy's station wagon in N. Fla we had left an old boat in and evidently it smelled fish and was looking for a meal. I heard one guy said he knew of a bobcat getting into a ragtop Jeep in Alabama then getting scared and ripped the cover to shreds. We had monkeys get into the back of our pick-up in Namibia. I started to load some gear and it charged and I ducked and it jumped right over me to escape. Be careful to be sure to keep those windows and doors closed when you park outdoors.
Phew, good thing I don't got any MONKEYS, just hanging out in my woods! :D
Bobcats are everywhere here you won't ever see one though. Winter time their tracks show.
Hemlock,
Monkeys are bad. Baboons are worse because they are so much stronger and more dangerous. We had monkeys get into our back porch and open a fridge and steal fresh veggies on Kruger when we visited there.
On that same trip the monkey jumped over me we got up and asked our guide what we were doing for breakfast and he said "We have half a liter of milk, one egg, some kudu sausage and 3/4 loaf of bread." I told him "Sounds like French toast to me" He had never heard of it so I mixed the egg and milk, dipped the bread in it, fried the sausage and fried the toast in the same skillet. It was very good. We had eaten all but one piece of toast and one piece of sausage was left. We were all looking at it wanting it but being too polite to take it from the others when a vervet monkey came down and settled the question by stealing both and running up a tree. The owner of the campground would walk through with a paintball gun and as soon as the monkeys saw him they scream and run to the tops of the tall trees. They had a sign in the office "Don't feed the monkeys - they already eat better than the staff."
Haha! That's funny! Thanks for sharing, I chucked lol
It's been awhile since I've travelled abroad and I'm a "home body" in the sense I don't like leaving the community but dang after all that's happened in the past 2 years I could use a vacation down south. Cuba was my favourite. Iirc they opened up to Americans recently.
Did you know woodpeckers can hear the grubs and insects in/chewing on the wood? People get made when woodpeckers peck on their houses and say they are damaging their homes (Which they are) but it was already damaged before he started pecking. He heard the termites or carpenter bee grubs in there before he started pecking.
I read somewhere, maybe here on the FF, where a woodpecker started pecking on a lady's house outside her kitchen. The finally relocated a new electric wall clock to another wall and the woodpeckers quit. They had heard the tiny electric motor in the clock and thought it was grubs chewing in the wood.
You can visually see them listening when they pause, they will tilt their head towards the wood and turn their head different ways, I suspected they could hear them but this confirms it.
Sooo now I need to figure out why they are hammering on my stove pipe. I thought that it was because it made a nice sound, but now I should suspect "rust ants"?? :D
Quote from: Magicman on June 24, 2021, 05:08:30 PM
Sooo now I need to figure out why they are hammering on my stove pipe. I thought that it was because it made a nice sound, but now I should suspect "rust ants"?? :D
Yup sounds like you got a bad case of stove pipe ants! :D
Or stove pipe beetles
Lynn,
Back before the earth's crust had cooled and I was in high school we had a tennis court at the school and we had a red headed woodpecker that used to peck on the metal light covers on the tennis court lights. You could hear a loud "ding, ding, ding, ding, etc." I don't know if he just liked to disturb the rest of us or liked the sound it made. We used comment how stupid he had to be to peck on a metal light cover. I think he was a re-incarnation of a famous politician but I digress...
We have large metal power poles with a flat top, woodpeckers will land on top and hammer away. I have no idea why.
Woodpeckers do not sing like many birds do. When they drum on metal or dry wood it is to advertise territory and attract a mate, much like a singing bird does. Sapsuckers have a very distinct cadence when they are drumming.
I have this one woodpecker that taps for a while every morning on the far top corner. Nuts.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20180623_a.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1530333537)
Pileated wood peckers have a call, I think it sounds kind of funny but like it. I think their call is more territorial though as as one goes off another one will, I think broadcasting "this is my territory". When a female is nearby it's mostly drumming, and if the female gets really close like on the same tree the drumming will get very gentle and slower, just my observation here. Downy woodpeckers don't sing or have a call per they do often per say but they do have a alarm "squeak" they make. Kind of sounds like the swainsons thrush chirp/alarm call, I find it hard to tell apart.
Did you know that when a constrictor type snake kills its prey he wraps his coils lightly around the chest of the prey and every time the prey has to exhale the snake "takes up the slack" and the inability to inhale soon causes the prey to expire from asphyxiation. At that point he starts to swallow the animal from the head down and will unhinge his jaws so he can crawl around the meal.
Quote from: Magicman on June 24, 2021, 05:08:30 PMSooo now I need to figure out why they are hammering on my stove pipe. I thought that it was because it made a nice sound, but now I should suspect "rust ants"??
I had one a few years ago that did that to my boiler exhaust vent whenever the suet feeder was empty for more than a day. Usually at first light, somewhat annoying but it kept the feeder full. :D
I have heard the SapSuckers here, pecking on an old metal poster sign, metal roofs, and metal chimneys, even a mailbox!
They do this in a sound pattern, wait about half a minute, then repeat, all this to attract a mate!
Did you know small crawfish - about 1" long - make perfect bait for almost every fish out there as they are natural prey? Many fish seem to be scared of bigger crawfish so if I use one of them for bait I pull the tail off and use it for bait, often on the jig hook of a small jig spinner.
Small crawfish can often be found in ditches and stagnant pools left after high water. I catch them here in WV at a place called Sandstone Falls where there are natural pools in the rocks and the high water fills them. Except for the deepest ones they sometimes dry up in the summer. I use a long handled shrimp net and scoop/dredge through the pools along the bottom. The crawfish will instinctively scoot backwards into the net. The rocks are hard on the net and they require lots of repair and wear out quickly.
These baby crawfish are great bait for bluegills, crappie, bass, and catfish. I like to pitch them up against steep rock banks, in brushpiles/treetops and under overhanging trees on a fiberglass crappie/bream pole or using a 4'-5' ultralight rod and reel combo. I set them under a float with a BB shot about 18"-24" deep and use about a #6-#8 hook, larger for crappie.
Did you know game farming is becoming increasingly popular in Africa, especially southern Africa? You can go in any grocery store with a meat department over there and find Oryx, Kudu, or Springbok for sale. The same is true on the menu of most restaurants. The price is comparable to beef. The landowners typically have huge fences and they raise the wild game native to and adapted to the area. When they are ready to harvest they bring in mobile abattoirs to butcher and process the meat. They bring in shooters with small caliber rifles (.223 -.243) who go out at night on specially outfitted trucks with extra alternators and bright spotlights and they drive up to a herd and start making head shots. (A shooter who makes a body shot is promptly replaced.) They may kill 20-30 animals before the herd runs away then the skinners and butchers take over while the shooters move to a new spot till they have filled their quota. (Maybe this is a career opening for some outlaw rednecks.)
The beauty of this system is the animals are already adapted to living there and they do minimal damage to the environment while producing the maximum amount of meat per hectare utilizing the native plants.
Moose and reindeer in Norway, and I believe Germany and other parts of Europe, legally harvested may be sold and can be bought in the meat markets over there.
Did you know that on the giant tortoises of the Galapagos, and maybe other species, the male has an indention or cupped area on the plastron or belly plate so that when he mates with the female he can make a more stable connection? I guess a perfectly flat shell would tend to slide off.
Maybe the MagicMan needs to go back and check his erotic pictures of his mating Box Shell Terrapins (Tarpons in WV) and see if he can identify the male by any such indention.
Did you know that fire ants in the south will cluster together to form ant rafts when flooding conditions cover their nests? I assume the queen(s) and eggs and such are protected in the middle but I cannot swear to that. In NW Fla where I grew when we would have a high water event it was not uncommon to see mounds of fire ants looking like of a 1-2 gallon capacity floating in the backwater.
Did you know when a honeybee stings she leaves a pheromone scent that causes other bees to sting in and around the same spot? I am not sure if other stinging insects do the same thing or not.
I was under the impression all wasps and bees etc did that. Especially wasps.(no need to kill bumble bees they leave alone). When you kill a wasp make sure to smush into the dirt as they release pheromones when in distress that tells others to KILL
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 30, 2021, 08:52:31 AM
Did you know when a honeybee stings she leaves a pheromone scent that causes other bees to sting in and around the same spot? I am not sure if other stinging insects do the same thing or not.
Fire ants do.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 29, 2021, 07:14:03 AMDid you know that fire ants in the south will cluster together to form ant rafts when flooding conditions cover their nests?
A few years ago after a hurricane came through here I walked out my back door and waded over to the kiln to see if it was still upright. We did not have electricity and it was an incredibly dark night. I was wearing a customized garbage bag and some shorts. I walked into a wad of floating fire ants and on cue they started stinging.
I live on the edge of the Green Swamp. This is our rainy season. When the water table gets to or near the surface of the ground, fire ants become more of a problem inside the house and other structures as these little imps head for higher ground.
These ants are an incredible annoyance, not native to the U.S. and evidently are partially responsible for the decline of Bob White quail (I'm sure Ellmoe can elaborate). I've read that the ants migrated up from South America.
While this may be a little indelicate, nature can be that way at times so bear with me.
Did you know experienced coon hunters can often identify the more likely candidates to join their pack at a very early age by doing a quick, simple anatomy check? The coon hunter can take a puppy only a few days old and turn him over and check the "bulls-eye" under his tail to see if the dog possess the traits to make him a good coon dog. A puppy with a small, tight "bulls-eye" will typically be rejected out of hand as lacking the heart to ever be a top notch coon dog while a puppy with a very large "bulls-eye" will be earmarked for special attention and training. The centuries old "science" behind this simple check is that it is a well established fact that a coonhound with a large "bulls-eye" will be willing to sit it on the cold ground and hold a coon up a tree for many hours if necessary for the hunter to get to him. A more delicate dog with a small "bulls-eye" is not going to plop his anatomy down on the cold ground for any significant length of time required to hold the coon in the tree. He will rapidly lose attention and wander and the prey will escape.
I am not familiar if anyone has taken this topic on as a graduate study or for his PhD yet. Also I am not sure if surgery or artificial aids such as padded "clothing" can be used to compensate for a deficient "bulls-eye". While I am not sure if bear and lion hunters use this same technology in selecting their future pack leaders or not, I suspect they do as dedicated hounds-men love to talk and compare notes and brag on their animals.
We talked earlier about ants - Did you know there are ant species in the jungles of Africa and South America that are so numerous they look like narrow streams of swiftly flowing water as they trek from place to place carrying leaf matter and other food? There will literally be millions of these ants migrating from place to place. I think in the Amazon jungle they are called leaf cutter ants while in Africa they are Army ants. It is very unnerving to see that many ants in motion when you are walking along game trails in the thick jungle.
I heard you can HEAR them there is so many, obviously you can't cross one of these ant rivers.
Yes, you can hear them but they are easy to step over. They will be in trails only a few inches wide. They do an excellent job of cleaning up the debris on the jungle floor. I remember seeing them in Central African Republic and the ground looked like it had been swept clean but there were these streams of ants passing through. What was really neat to see was where the river of ants would fork off into two or merge just like streams of water would do.
Did you know termites build mounds in Africa that are often up to 6' tall and 15' in diameter? They are often the tallest "structure" in the area so they are used by wildlife to spot game or predators. Animals like cheetas will lay on the top of these mounds and look for game. Bushes will grow in old mounds and lions often drag their kill under them where it is cooler and they try to protect them from scavengers like hyenas, vultures, maribous, jackals, etc.
Native tribesmen will sometimes dig into one of the smaller termite mounds (Mabye a cubic meter or so) and use them as a clay oven.
Driving unexpectedly into an active termite mound can also result in a broken truck axle if it collapses under you.
Did you know the road to Cape Cross along the Skelton Coast of the Atlantic Ocean along northern Namibia is made of salt? The builders laid down a bed of beach sand, graded it smooth then repeatedly dripped sea water from the adjacent Atlantic Ocean on the sand using tanker trucks with spreader bars to evenly distribute the water. The water quickly evaporates and the salt left behind binds with the sand making a hard packed surface that feels as hard and smooth as any asphalt road. While it almost never rains in the area the area is subject to heavy fogs and when they occur the road surface can get damp and is as slick as ice at times.
Did you know the secretary bird in sub-Saharan Africa is an odd and unique member of the Raptor family that has been described as looking like a cross between an eagle head and body on the legs of a crane? It grows to over 4'3" tall and averages about 9 lbs in weight. It hunts mostly on the ground in savannah and semi-desert areas with low or little vegetation as a fast walking bird that stomps the ground and scares mice and snakes and such out of their hiding places where it catches and eats them. The head has a crown of feathers that stick up and has been described a looking like a 1920s era secretary with a selection of pencils sticking out of her bun type hair-do.
We first saw secretary birds in Kenya on our first safari in Africa and saw them in many other parts of southern Africa such as South Africa, Namibia, Ethiopia, Botswana, etc. They were probably my favorite bird in Africa with their big gawky appearance and ground hunting habits.
Did you know in southern Africa you will typically not see the eagles and vultures out early in the morning because they wait till later in the day when it warms up and they can soar on the air currents when they are more active and use less energy to search for food? This is probably true with our large soaring birds in North and South America but my guide in Africa pointed it out to us on a trip to Namibia one time.
Interesting, we used to have turkey vultures that roosted next to a river in our town about a mile north of our mill. Nothing disturbed them as they roosted in fenced in EPA superfund site. We were in steep valley and our stack was 320 feet high. Sometimes around mid morning the turkey vultures would take off and start circling the stack very slowly until they were above the discharge and then they would rapidly rise on the updraft until they were specks. At some point they would all break off the thermal and glide over to the local landfill which was in the hills outside the valley. I never really saw when they returned during the day. The mill is long gone but the boiler was converted to large wood boiler but I am not over in that area often enough to see if they are still catching a lift off the stack. The odd thing was this area didnt have any turkey vultures until around the year 2000.
Sounds like a neat observation. I guess they used the heat from the boiler to get started and then picked up the currents already there. It amazes me how expert animals are on conserving energy.
When I was working in Saudi Arabia I noticed on one trip there was a telephone or power line along the road to the next town. Under the shade of each 8-10 inch diameter pole you would see 1-2 camels. There was not much shade there but that was all there was and they capitalized on it to the max.
As to the turkey vultures we have a public boat landing on the COE lake 8.5 miles from where I live and the vultures hang out at the landing eating garbage, dead fish bait and food people leave but mostly the dead fish people catch and throw on the bank. The light on and crap all over people's cars, trucks and trailers down there.
I built a new house on a lake a few years ago. The neighboring house had just been purchased by a women that moved from New York city. She had lived in the city since birth. When we moved in it was quickly apparent there was a vulture problem . They got on the roof . fences , trees , anywhere there was a perch. I could not figure why they chose to reside in this area. I'm a firm believer in aversion therapy and commenced such a plan. Usually, this has been effective on most every species tried on , but not in this case. Then , one day I came home and found a dozen black vultures having a party in my bass boat! :( They torn the foam out of my seats , ripped up the carpet , and stripped out the LED lighting strips. ! What they didn't destroy , they crapped on! This meant war!!! :snowball: DefCon III . I had one goal at home , send these scavengers to the landfill where they belonged. (Alive of course , they are an internationally protected species , ;) ) . I brought out my A game and after two weeks they were gone. I was very proud of myself! After a couple of months passed , I had a casual conversation with my neighbor. She queried
me as to why the big black birds were no longer around. I asked , " you mean the nasty buzzards ?". "Oh , is that what they are ? I just thought they were birds. I am kinda glad they are gone because they are really messy. That's why I quit feeding them dog food on my shed roof" !!! :o ... You can take the girl out of the city , but you can't take the city out of the girl! Not sure if my actions had anything to do with them leaving . I suspect the lose of a few source was the main cause .Anyway , I don't have to put up with them anymore and the neighbors have quit talking about the crazy guy chasing the " black birds".
Sorry for the long post. Riding out a small hurricane today. ;)
My Dad had a friend near Old Town Fla who found a pair of eggs in the woods and figured they were turkeys or such and he took them home and incubated them and when they hatched it was a pair of turkey vultures. He fed them dry dog food on his back porch and they would come and go.
My last assignment was in Guinea in West Africa and there was an open air meat market a few hundred yards up the road. The guys there fed them meat scraps and trimmings and such and there was a bunch of vultures walking around the yard like a bunch of chickens. There was a huge tropical tree on the banks of the Kissidougoo River.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/DSCF2041.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1625753119)
The big tree in the background is the vulture roost.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/DSCF2045.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1625753238)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/DSCF2044.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1625753236)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/DSCF2042.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1625753235)
Some pictures of the vultures at the meat market.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/DSCF2039.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1625753331)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/DSCF2055.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1625753329)
Some of the local neighbors. I still miss the vibrant colors and the kids. The people were very friendly and photogenic and loved having their pictures made and seeing themselves on the viewer. Sometimes I'd get so many kids following me around the only way to get rid of them was stop at a local bodega and give the shopkeeper a 10K guinea note (About $1.40) and tell him "Une bon bon" (One candy) and point at each kids and I'd walk away while they mobbed him for a change.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2638.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1625753983)
Now I am back to living next door to different neighbors. View from out my window while I was typing this.,
Did you know that the home of the clown fish (remember Nemo?) is an Anemone? The Anemone has a toxin on its arms that is poison to most fish and they avoid it. The clown fish is not affected by this toxin so uses the Anemone as a safe haven.
You can discover this information very easily on many sites on line but what they do not tell you is that while there may be 4-5 clownfish living in a single Anemone - there will never be 2 clownfish of the same size in the group. If you look at them carefully you will find they are stair-stepped in sizes for example 1-4", 1-3", 1-2" and 1-1" long.
I honestly don't know why this is true but after many hours of bottom time in the Red Sea I can attest to the veracity of this observation.
Did you know squid and I seem to remember octopus can change colors to blend in with their background?
Did you know an octopus can lose a leg and it will regrow another? A shark or barracuda or such will often rip off a leg or two and the octopus will take shelter in a cave in the coral and recuperate. It was common to see an octopus with 5-6 long legs and 2-3 only a few inches long that it was in the process of re-growing.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on July 10, 2021, 10:57:42 AM
Did you know squid and I seem to remember octopus can change colors to blend in with their background?
All this squid and octopus talk got me to thinking about this song:
I was a cook
And she was a waitress
Down at the Salty Sam Seafood Café
And somewhere 'tween the clam juice and the seaweed salad
Some little shrimp just lured her away
{Chorus}
Oh, I lobster and never flounder
He wrapped his line around her
And they drove off in his carp
Oh, I lobster and never flounder
I octopus his face in
Eel only break her heart
{Verse 2}
I said, "Just squid and leave me
For that piano tuna
If you want to trout something new"
She was the bass I ever had
Now my life has no porpoise
Oh, my cod, I love her, yes, I do
{Chorus}
Oh, I lobster and never flounder
He wrapped his line around her
And they drove off in his carp
Oh, I lobster and never flounder
I octopus his face in
Eel only break her heart
{Outro}
"Boy, I swordfish she'd come back to me, Sandy
I'd shore her a whale of a time"
"Now, Richard, you know she'd just pull that 'Not tonight, I've got a haddock' routine"
"You're probably right, but y'know, I've kelp her picture in my walleye just for the halibut
I wonder if she's still got mine in her perch"
"Did you, did you say 'perch'"
"Yeah, I'm afraid so"
"That's good, for a moment there, I thought I was losing my
Herring" *audience groans*
"Well, we bass squid all this seahorsing around before these people out here go into a state of shark"
"Yeah, if we get out of here alive, it's going to be a mackerel" "Frankly scallop I don't give a clam"
Pinkard & Bowden - I Lobster But Never Flounder - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuDgIdc118o)
Danny, that is so bad,..it is good! :)
::) steve_smiley :D
Did you know when alarmed octopus and squid squirt out an ink screen to hide from predators? While the predator is temporarily blinded and the squid/octopus is out of sight of the predator the intended victim hides or makes his escape unnoticed.
Did you know squids, cuttlefish and octopus can use a system of jet propulsion for rapid movement under water to escape predators or capture prey or such? They suck in water have a chamber where they compress the water and a controlled exit so the escaping water pushes them along at a healthy clip.
Did you know a handy item to pack with you when you go on a long trip to the jungle or on a desert vacation is powdered Gatorade? This helps keep your overall luggage weight down but is good where you need to drink lots of water and to replace electrolytes. In many cases on our trips to Africa and the Amazon we were drinking boiled, filtered or Iodine treated water that did not taste very good. We needed the fluids and this helped.
Any water at all (when you absolutely MUST) is an absolute necessity, sometimes it's just needing processing to make sure that it's safe and (hopefully) won't kill you.
Always remember the rules of 3.
3 minutes to breathe.
3 days to drink.
3 weeks to eat.
As far as @mike_belben (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=33722) thread of pigs go, swine reproduce quite rampantly, every 3wks & 3 days.
You also must remember that the rules of 3 (mostly) are just guidelines, and some tweaking is always needed for the situation at hand.
I assume you mean the sow will come into season every 3 weeks and 3 days if not bred as it looks like once bred she takes 115 days or so to deliver a litter of pigs.
I remember the joke about the city slicker becoming a farmer and buying a sow but no boar. When he wanted pigs he found he needed to take her to the neighbor's boar. He loaded her up in his wheelbarrow and pushed her over and the boar did his thing. The slicker asked the neighbor how to tell if it took and the experienced pork farmer told him "Check in the morning. If she's laying in the mud, she's pregnant. If she's in the sunshine it did not take and you need to bring her back." He got up the next morning and she was laying in the sun so he loaded her in the wheelbarrow and took her back. That went on every day for the next week. Finally he woke up and asked his wife "I don't have the heart to check. Is the sow in the mud on in the sun?" The wife looked and said "Neither, she's in the wheelbarrow."
Did you know while we call pork "The other White Meat" that the meat from a warthog is red?
I forgot to say: 3mo 3wk 3days; oops 😬
And if pork is like fowl, then the less workout it gets the better chance of it being white.
Take domestic turkeys vs wild; dom breast meat is white, it can't fly, but wild & it can and it's dark meat. I don't remember if that's been talked about in this thread or not. But it has NOW!😇
Todd,
The breast on our wild turkeys is white. It is tougher than tame turkey and can be stringy. I know the life style of the animal determines how tough the meat can be but I never heard of it changing the color of the muscles/meat.
Did you know a preferred game animal for the meat in Africa is a young cow giraffe? She provides an awful lot of meat and it is considered very tasty. She makes a heck of a neck roast too. :D
Since we are talking white vs dark meat did you know that horse meat is very dark meat? I saw plenty of it for sale in open air meat markets in Mongolia. I know it was commonly eaten in France but I did not see it for sale in Norway so likely the rest of Europe is less inclined to eat them. I can't tell you what it tasted like because I never knowingly ate it.
Had it in one meal in Paris lo those many years ago, was not impressed although better than the Argentine beef served there.
Tex,
I don't want to overly offend our French members here but I am convinced French cuisine would be the best diet food imaginable. What I experienced was all show and no substance. My wife and I overnighted in Paris on our way to and from Cameroon in February 2008 and I went to what was supposed to a nice restaurant near our hotel and ordered the biggest steak on the menu. When they served it I found it looked and tasted about like 6 ounces of dried shoe leather. It was all presentation with a teaspoon of side dish in each corner and some kind of sauce drizzled over and connecting everything. I thought I was going to start WWIII when I asked for some steak sauce which evidently highly offended the "chef" who would have been fired as a short order cook from an Omelet Shoppe anywhere in the USA. They never obliged but finally reluctantly found and brought out a bottle thin, watery catsup to eat with my fries pomme frites. I think when we left, weak from hunger, we went and ordered a pizza for sustenance.
As an equal opportunity food critic British food, other than Shepherd's pie, is not a lot better but it is served in larger portions. I think that is why Brits eat so much curry. There has to be something wrong when you open the menu and see the house specialty is steak and kidney pie and spotted dick. I don't eat organs and ...
If you are going on a photo trip of a lifetime to remote areas did you know taking a portable picture printer can get you more pictures and more access to otherwise private and restricted areas than almost anything else?
We learned this on our travels to very remote areas with my free lance photographer wife. Using common courtesy, we always asked and got permission for "people pictures". Many people would initially be reluctant to allow us to photograph them at the start but once one agreed and you could show them their picture on the camera's viewer others in the area opened up and would agree to be photographed.
Adding the printer and stopping and giving someone an actual picture took things to a whole new level. We first did this in Mongolia and we stopped on July 4, 2006 to photograph 2 men training a young horse by riding it around a flock of sheep and goats. National Geographic was set up doing the same thing several hundred yards away. The riders saw us stopped and came to see what we were doing and to talk with us and we asked, took their picture and gave each of them one. Once they saw it the lead herder took the saddle off the old horse, slapped it on the rump to send it home and he got in our SUV and directed us through the mountain trails to his Ger (Yurt - round tent home) and took us inside, introduced his wife and kids, gave us horse milk wine, cheese, and milked a horse for us to try fresh horse milk. He caught a yak and let me ride it, they got dressed in bright holiday colors and we got family pictures of them, gave them more copies and we got photos of everything. National Geographic did not get any of this. We found the same thing in the Amazon jungle in Ecuador and Peru with the Indian tribes there and throughout southern and central Africa, Ethiopia, and such with the remote tribes there. Again, we got personal access to homes and places other photographers did not get, we made close personal friends in the process and we had lots of fun. We sometimes created mob scenes and had to beat a hasty retreat a few times when the crowds would get so big with more and more people wanting to see themselves and get a picture. I saw a family matriarch in Mongolia literally break down and cry when she got her first ever family picture which we printed on the yak cart in the front yard. It was very heartwarming.
The biggest problem we had was power for the printer. In Mongolia we were in an SUV and could use an inverter using the 12V cigarette lighter. When trekking in to camp with the recently first contacted Koma people along the Cameroon/Nigeria border or while in a private canoe tour down the Amazon we took battery packs. We'd recharge as best we could any time we were at a village with a genset or solar power.
Indigenous people often think the tourists are making money at their expense with their photos but when they get a copy they feel well compensated and they or their chief would readily sign a release to publish their pictures. It is a great, fun, personal touch to consider.
Did you know the closer to the equator you are the closer the time between daylight and night becomes? Right on the equator the periods are almost exactly the same all year round. When visiting and camping in Ecuador right along the Equator the sun would rise at almost exactly 6:00 am and set at 6:00 pm every day of the year with only a few minutes variation between summer and winter. The monkeys and birds would provide a wake up call every morning with similar results when were visiting the Central African Republic or Kenya which were also on or very close to the equator.
I worked a project in Kristiansand Norway which was much closer to the North Pole and there were huge differences between daylight and dark. The seagulls would wake us up at 3:00 am for sunrise in the summer and then it would not get dark until nearly midnight. Conversely, we'd have only 5-6 hours of daylight in the winter.
I can't speak for the equator, never been there, but when I spent 3 weeks in Norway the effects on my body and mind were profound in several ways. With regard to daylight I clearly recall sitting on my cousin's porch and reading a newspaper (in so far as I could given the language) at nearly midnight with just the ambient light. Unlike at home where I always have a flashlight in my pocket, I never needed one there. I often took a walk outside before bed, at 1 or 2am with no artificial light. You would sometimes hear somebody mowing their lawn at 11pm. I saw water skiers out on the North Sea after midnight and I was watching them from 2 miles away. Even though it 'got dark' around midnight, it never really 'got dark', it was more like a very long dusk period. I was used to the sun rising in the east and setting in the west back home and never realized how much I instinctively relied on that knowledge to know roughly what time of day it was and which way was North. This messed me up more than anything because the sun traveled pretty much in a circle in the sky and I could never tell the time of day or know which way we were traveling. 3 weeks was not enough time for me to adjust to that. (One of my cousins thought I was a little 'off' because I would ask 'which way is North?' at least 4 or 5 times a day.) My sleep schedule was all messed up. I immediately fell into a habit of going to bed around 2am and getting up at 6, which caught up to me after 2 weeks or so.
All in all what might seem like a little thing turned out to be a fascinating experience for me. I can easily see why there are many human mental health issues that can result from these vast solar cycle swings and often wondered if I made the jump back to the old country if I could adjust. There are a lot of societal effects from these conditions too. For instance my cousins all agreed that they watch a lot of TV in the winter months but almost never turn it on from spring to fall. They are often working outside until midnight, they avoid indoor activities until the weather and darkness force them inside.
I always found it interesting that I had no trouble getting adjusted to the time difference when I went over, but it took me over 3 weeks to 'get normal' when I returned home.
Tom,
You make real good points that even "dark" is more like twilight than what we think of as dark. You had to have heavy blackout type curtains to sleep in the summer, if the stupid gulls and such would let you sleep then since we were in a coastal city. I think you could easily see to walk all the time in the summer. The short daylight in the winter would do other things to your mind/body.
We had a day care center next to our office and I remember commenting to Unn, our secretary, one day "They had those kids (2-3 y/o) out in the snow playing when I came by while ago." She replied "If they did not get them out in the snow they would never get out. There is no such thing as bad weather - just bad clothes." I remember Norway was a very high cost area (think 2-4 times what we pay here in the USA for most things) but winter clothes such as snowsuits were quite reasonable and my wife loved their boots which all the ladies had to wear in winter there. I remember stocking up on ski attire for the grandkids when we were there.
In the jungle when it got dark - it was dark! And it stayed dark till the sun came up.
I would suspect it feels sort of like a full moon night, I can easily walk around without a flash light when it’s full moon! I did visit banf , Alberta summer time and they had daylight until around 10:30-11 which was unusual for me being a east coaster the latest being 9
My sister spent a year in Norway as an exchange student, the pics of her hiking at midnight were fun. She became quite a knitter while there, apparently that was one way girls and ladies passed the long dark time. While there fresh produce was scarce compared to here. When she got home she dug in to fresh garden fare. I guess her system was tuned for lutefisk by then, she foundered in a big way.
I never developed a taste for Lutefish but I was invited to a traditional family dinner one Christmas by a Noggie friend and I remember Rutebegas was one of the side dishes. They called it Kolirabi IIRC. I like rutebega. Seems like smoked dried lamb chops or such were also on the menu. I liked the rutebega better if the truth be told.
Quote from: HemlockKing on July 19, 2021, 06:40:34 PMI would suspect it feels sort of like a full moon night,
More a really long twilight. That time after the sun has certainly set, but it's only just below the horizon. It's not truly dark yet. After a few hours the sun starts approaching the horizon again for sunrise. But it never actually got to the other side of the planet, so no full night.
Probably similar light levels to full moon, but that comes from a point source, like a distant street light. The twilight come from a diffuse glow in the sky, so no shadows and a very different lighting effect.
Darkest I've ever experienced is getting home one night to the home farm. Usually there would be "some" lights, even if it was starlight or city lights on the horizon. Enough to see outlines of objects and walk across the road from the shed to the house. This night it was a thick low cloud / mist and after I turned off the car lights, there was just Black, even with young night adjusted eyes. Walked in from memory and feeling what I was walking on :D
Even in NZ you notice the seasonal day / night difference between the North and South. South has the much shorted Winter days, and longer extended twilight effect, compared to the sub-tropical Northland. Further each way and the effect gets more pronounced. Around the equator the sun never moves far enough from an overhead track to create a Summer / Winter effect.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on July 19, 2021, 08:22:53 PMI remember Rutebegas was one of the side dishes.
Fun fact, Rutebegas are called "Swedes" here in NZ. I imagine they were bought here by Scandinavian emigrants, and the name stuck. ???
Well I will say it's an interesting experience when those little things that you hang your hat on go wonkers.
You 3 fellas triggered more thoughts;
Food. I have always been a picky meat and potatoes guy and not easy to try new things, but when, in the interest of not offending anyone and also maybe expanding my own limited horizons I resolved to try everything when I went over. It was a good plan, when I was taken to a 'VERY SPECIAL PLACE' where they made the best rommegrot that could be found I was more than apprehensive. It's like a sour cream pudding and nothing could have sounded more distasteful to me. BUT I tried it and holy cow that stuff was REALLY good! Also Gamle Ost (Old Cheese, literally translated) which is powerful stuff. My only remaining 1st cousin (93 at the time) in Norway offered me some of his stash, which was kept in a little tiny crock with a gasket seal and compression wire bail latch. THAT was kept inside a Tupperware container to contain the odor, and THAT was placed in the porch refrigerator because his wife would not allow it in the house. Getting the picture? So he shows me how to take a pinky sized piece and spread it all over a rye cracker. He takes small bites relishing each one like a sip of fine bourbon. I make up my cracker and against the strong suggestions by my other cousins to avoid it, I tried it anyway. I found it quite good, but not something you would 'fill up' on. Besides the rommegrot, the Polska was my favorite and I even managed to smuggle a 2' section of it through customs and made it last for a year. Polska is pretty much the same thing as peperoni but made with different meats. The one that got me was Elke Polska which is Moose Pepperoni. I was raised on moose meat and this stuff was super! Lutefisk was never appealing to me and never will be, the smell alone would knock a buzzard of a poop wagon at 1,000 yards. I learned that many of my norsk cousins feel the same as I on this point. :D
HK, have you ever tried to read a newspaper by moonlight? ;D It's just weird and different. I have been in other parts of north America and Canada where the day/night cycles are pretty different, but this was beyond anything I could imagine. I was up in Lillehammer and took a walk at 2am and could identify plants 30' away. It's just an unusual experience. The sun does not 'drop over the horizon' as I was used to, it slowly swings down on a long curve and goes below the horizon and comes up a few hours later a little further east (at least I think it was east). That direction thing REALLY messed me up, bigtime. No kidding. (If I get back, I am bringing a compass instead of a flashlight.)
Howard, that bit about 'no bad weather, just bad clothes' was also something I was raised with. Being outdoors as much as possible is universal with the Norsk, all year long, any time they can. Yes, many things are really expensive (booze, cigarettes, and coffee come to mind first) and the inhabitants will tell you everything is more expensive and on closer questioning I found that they are like us and we feel that we pay too much for most stuff. But I pressed the point late one night in a conversation with a cousin on what they actually paid for a basic like electricity. When we finally boiled it all down through billing cycles and methods, exchange rates I came to learn that what they pay was a VERY small fraction of what I pay here, but they still maintained it was 'very expensive'. :D The reason I pursued this for many conversations was because I noticed EVERY house I stayed at had electric radiant heat in at least the bathroom floor and nearly all had a walk-in refrigerator either in the house or the barn (for household use besides the regular kitchen unit). I also saw some smaller hayfields that had lights strung (like you see at Christmas tree sale lots) so that they could cut hay after the sun went down in the fall or early spring. Those lights were on 24 hours, even in July, barn lighting was similar. That kind of made me wonder and press the question. ;D I did purchase a number of things over there that my cousins thought were 'too expensive' and they could find me a better deal someplace else, but I found those things very reasonable compared to the cost stateside, even cheap. Everything is relative.
Boats were another thing that really hit me as different. Very few of the high powered boats we see in marinas here(almost none), for sure. I think I saw maybe 5 boats that could pull a skier. Most have single cylinder gas or mostly diesel engines at about 5-7HP. That would be on a 18-24' boat. No transom either, a bow shape on both ends to better handle a following sea. The waters are rough, deep, and things pop up to the surface from a hundred fathom depth like rocks and points in the middle of nowhere. I asked my cousin about the small engines as we were putting along. I will never forget his answer "If you are in a hurry, you shouldn't be in a boat". A week later, out with a different cousin in a bigger boat (25', 2 cylinder) and putting along, I asked the same question. He asked me what I knew about boats and could I read a chart. "Sure" I said "you can't be in this family if you can't read a chart, right?". He laughed and reached under the console and pulled out the chart for the water we were in (outside Mandal, headed to town coming around an island that had NATO missile silos on it) and pointed to where we were on the chart and a couple of landmarks to orient me. I looked at the chart and took it into my head, checked the landmarks and confirmed our heading as best I could and realized even though the average depth was between 3 and 30 fathoms the area was a minefield of rocks and barely submerged islands. Anybody running through the area at more than a couple of knots was bound to wreck on something. This is pretty much what the whole coastline is like. Running around these areas at any speed is suicide.
There were other things, like the lasting and still very present effects of the war, which folks don't talk about except in the absolute correct and private circumstances. I had a couple of these conversations and all I will say is that they were not easy for either party and there were some tears shed, because we weren't talking about the effect on the country or a town, we were talking about people my cousins grew up with that did not survive the period, or in some cases my cousins themselves, the Nazi's patrolling our family farms (the very ground we were having that very conversation on) and things like that. I'd rather not relate any other details on that because I am already choking up remembering that part of it and the pain it caused when I asked those questions. We worked through it.
But yeah, 3-4 hours of night, and having the sun do circles in the sky can really mess a boy up. :)
Quote from: Don P on July 19, 2021, 06:49:09 PM
.......... I guess her system was tuned for lutefisk by then, she foundered in a big way.
Don, you know there are intervention programs to handle this sort of thing, right? :D ;D
I did sort of exaggerate, nobody really likes lutefisk :D She could handle most of the fare but really missed fresh fruits and veggies in more than nordic variety and quantity.
The family did take her on a long, strenuous cross country ski trek up to the border. During the war if you could make it through that pass it was downhill to freedom.
Some Swedes on a job up north here got me to try some of their stinky cheese. As Mamma would say "Best left in the goat" :D.
Some Swedes on a job up north here got me to try some of their stinky cheese. As Mamma would say "Best left in the goat" :D.
Can you be more specific? :D They have a lot of 'stinky cheese' but a lot of it is really good. I really enjoyed the gjeytost (brown goat cheese) and found a local source at home for it and began using it in my lunches. Maybe not for everyone though. Also Noogle ost, (I may not have spelled that right) which my father, as a small boy was given for lunch nearly every day and therefore had enough that he lost his appetite for it somehow, but for me I found this REALLY good but can no longer find in any specialty shops around here, but it was great while it lasted.
Geez, I haven't thought about these in a while, maybe I should go shopping again.
%3#&@)*& fat fingered another response into cyber space.
Tom,
I well remember walking the docks at Kristiansand and seeing the seeing the boats exactly as described. My wife was with me there one day on a rock solid concrete dock and she looked over and saw a bunch of jellyfish bobbing and she got seasick just watching. We rode bikes most places because we could not find parking. A parking ticket was 500 to 600 kroner or well over $100. Driving 110+ kph in an 80 kph zone near Oslo will cost you over $1,000 (Don't ask me how I know this) without a cop in sight. The use lots of "Kamera" control station on strategically place poles and when you see a bright red flash (Or so I am told ::)) you are busted and they mail you a ticket (Or you can go on line and look it up and pay before the ticket actually gets to you. They have your picture and it can read the VIIN.)
Most residents I knew owned a boat and a cabin in the mountains. If not the government took the money out of their account so no reason not to own one. OTC medicines are rare as you can go to the doctor for a pittance. I had more trouble treating myself their than in remote villages in Africa where I could buy anything.
We had a Norwegian exchange student, Ruth, who we hosted for a year and we visited often. Her dad worked at a hydo electric plant there and he took us in one night and found the night engineer who gave use the VIP tour. They had a lake on top of the mountain and bored a hole through the mountain and set a series of in-line turbines so you never even knew it was there. At night when they needed less power they actually pumped water back up to refill the lake. It took more energy to pump it up than it generated coming down but by pumping in the off hours they could store unneeded energy for the times when they did need it. The water end in the Fjord about 15-20 meters under the water to keep it from freezing the line shut.
Law suits and such must not have been common. A huge Elm tree fell in a kids play area and they just trimmed the limbs and left it for the kids to climb on. It was great fun but you'd see 4-5 y/o kids walking 10' high along the trunk and nobody was horrified or looking for a lawyer like they would here.
I don't recognize some of the dishes you mention but Ruth loved the goat cheese that looked like peanut butter to us.
As to pricing, a McDonald's happy meal was between $20-$25 in 2007-2008. Norwegian Elk meat (Moose) was readily available in the grocery stores and cost was comparable to beef so I'd buy it instead as I figured it was better and healthier.
Too many other memories to post at this time.
Did you know that mango trees have very soft and brittle limbs? When I was living and working in Douala (Doo Allah) Cameroon, there were huge old mango trees lining the street and when the fruit was ripening every kid in Douala seemed to have a long piece of raffia vine with a short piece tied on to the end to make a 45* angle for a reverse hook. They would reach up and hook the fork over the fruit and pull it down to eat or to try to sell to wayward white expats like me. I asked a local worker why the kids did not simply climb up into the trees, many with low limbs, and pick the mangos. My local friend advised me the limbs would readily break and not hold the weight of even a small child.
Im sure howard knows someone who eats these things ;D
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I know Mopani worms (similar in size to our Catalpa worms) are rated as between a staple food and a delicacy in much of the southern part of Africa but I don't recognize that gnarly looking creature. Maybe if you singe the hairs off he can be eaten?
I have told you folks before about the time my guide in Cameroon saw us eating raisins and asked what they were and I gave him one of the small boxes, he tossed a handful in his mouth, chewed a couple of times then started spitting. When he was confident he had all the nasty out of his mouth he went back to eating his termites.
And as to catalpa worms if you get that nasty juice on your hands when collecting or fishing with them, Dad said from his experience as a cook in the Army the best way to get the juice off was to make a big batch of biscuit batter. He said that worked every time.
LoL
Did you know blister beetles exude an acid compound when threatened and when it contacts your skin it creates painful blisters? We had them in Douala Cameroon and had to be very careful if we came into contact with one. The normal process was to flip/thump them off.
Oww, that's gonna hurt, or at the very least not be fun.
The big problem is like any other bug landing or crawling on your arm or neck the natural reaction is to slap it. Ouch! You better wash the area quickly and thoroughly if you did.
We had a team member's wife who lived in one of our apartments. It was in our highest risk area of town we lived in so we had 12'-15' tall cement block walls topped with razor wire and lights and alarms and such but she'd complain to me, since I was responsible for all the housing maintenance and such, about the blister beetles all along the walls of the fence and building. I reminded her the beetles had wings and could easily crawl over the wall. I told her I could not build an astrodome or such. I asked if they were getting in the apartment and they were not. I was real diligent about sealing the units to keep the malaria skeeters out. She confirmed they were not getting in her apartment but wanted them gone. She'd take a shoe or block of wood and smear them on the white painted walls outside supposedly to spite me and show me how many were there. I did not care - she was the one who lived there, not me. We had to repaint the exterior of all the buildings and walls annually anyway so it did not bother me.
This same woman once asked me to tell the local neighbors to put out their fires because the smoke got in her 3rd floor window. I told her close the window and run the A/C. Our local neighbors did not have indoor kitchens and cooked over open fires. She had her western electric stove and oven and all the conveniences she had at home. She was awful inconsiderate IMHO. She was just another cross I had to bear along life's journey.
Did you know hunting dogs, think hounds, make different sounds when they are chasing different prey and at different phases of the hunt. An experienced houndsman can tell when his dog is working a cold trail, when his on a hot trail, when he can actually see the prey and when they prey has treed or at bay. Experienced hunters can tell exactly which dog in a pack of many is barking and what he is doing. I've even heard them say "He's on the back trail" following the trail backwards then I'd hear the guy say "Okay, he's got it straightened out now."
I had one of the world's best squirrel dogs. She would not bark on trail so when she barked she was generally looking at the squirrel or coon or possum. She also would not go hunt by herself and coursed a hundred yards or so in front of me. If wanted to go coon hunting, pull up and drop the tailgate and sit there, she'd sit there with me all night if I wanted. If I wanted to hunt I'd have to stroll along the river or through the woods and she would walk ahead of me checking the area. Occasionally she would "tree" a snake on the ground and had a very nervous, scared bark. She would walk gingerly through the tall grass watching carefully at every step. One night I heard the same, unusual bark and when I got to her she was digging in a sandy area where a small tree had uprooted. She'd dig, yip and jump back then repeat. When I got closer I finally spotted the culprit - an armadillo buried in and digging deeper in the sand. Evidently she had never encountered one before and did not know what to do with it. I went in a finally got it by the tail and killed it with K-bar knife I had one me.
That woman was Western spoiled spoilt.
Yeah, she was not well loved by them or the rest of the team. We had bandits break into that apartment in January I think 2004. They broke open the gate which the guards did not have properly secured, and stabbed the guard in the butt and legs trying to make him give him the keys to the company vehicles parked on site. He did not have the keys. They broke into the building and got into one apartment where both occupants were on R&R and stole some company electronics and a set of golf clubs which they quickly ditched as too heavy to steal and no market for them anyway. She was in the 3rd floor apartment and opened her door and yelled down "What are you doing down there?" then they rushed her and she got one bolt locked and her husband stood and braced it. I had 2 more deadbolts in it and a safe haven in the rear with another hardened door and extra deadbolts. The apartments with all locks and deadbolts properly shut were not breeched. I suspect if they had broken in and kidnapped her our company would have paid them a reverse ransom to keep her. I'd sure have chipped in.
Did you know that silk is made from the cocoons of silkworm moths? The moths lay their eggs which hatch and the larvae are fed mulberry leaves and the cocoon pupates and spins the cocoon where it stays until it matures into a grown moth. The cocoons are collected and boiled to remove the old casings and unwound into thread and woven into cloth.
Left Okinawa in late December 2086 and stopped over at Osan AFB in Korea for a few days. On Christmas Eve I was watching the sights and listening to a gosh-awful Salvation Army Band made up of Koreans and Americans playing and singing (Actually butchering) assorted Christmas carols on a street corner in Osan. It was a clear cold (maybe 20 degrees F) and I observed a street vendor with a big iron kettle boiling and selling a local delicacy. It looked very much like the boiled peanuts like I grew up with in N. Fla. He was even bagging and selling them in small brown paper bags like we'd buy peanuts from our local peanut boy in every small southern town. I could not tell what they were so I asked a young Korean man who was tagging along supposedly to practice his English (He was probably a N. Korean spy) and he talked to the vendor and told me they were boiled silkworm larvae. People were readily buying them and walking around munching on them. No, I cannot tell you what they tasted like any more than I can tell you what a possum tastes like. Times haven't gotten that hard yet.
Did you know that white mulberry, Morus Alba, was brought over from Asia and planted in US for the silkworm trade? Apparently the worms don't cotton ( ;D) to our native red mulberry, Morus rubra.
Sounds like hubby missed his chance to send her off.
;D
Mike,
They'd probably have taken him and we'd have paid them to keep him too. :D Trust me - they deserved each other. ::)
Did you know a nightcrawler (worm) has a flat spot on its tail that it uses as an anchor to keep itself in the ground? Have you ever watched a robin and a nightcrawler doing a tug-of-war with the robin pulling out as hard as it can and the nightcrawler holding on for dear life and they bob back and forth as the robin pulls out then the nightcrawler retracts any time it gets slack. Sometimes the worm slips free and pulls back totally underground and sometimes the worm's "anchor" slips and the robin pulls it free and eats it. It is really fun to watch. Especially after a rain the nightcrawlers will come nearly all the way out of their burrows in the ground with their tail/anchor in the hole. When you get near he "slurps" back down into the hole with a spaghetti slurping sound. When you grab one you have to hold pressure till his anchor slips. Pull too hard and you will pull him into two.
BTW worms are great for the soil as their tunnels ventilate the soil and they pull soil from below to the surface and vice versa mixing the various soils below and the topsoil above.
Earthworms are great for the soil and they are an important food source for many birds and mammals as well. Raccoons, skunks, foxes and others eat them. Even in the winter, if you get a warm spell and the ground thaws, the worms will come out at night and provide a high protein food source. Doing wildlife control skunk jobs, when the skunks first come out of their winter dens they are focuse on breeding and have to be trapped with sets without bait. Then they get hungry and can be caught with baited sets.....until the nightcrawlers come out. Then they suddenly become harder to catch.
Today I fished in a Missouri stream that I've heard about for many years but never fished. The claim is that the strain of Rainbow trout that inhabits the stream is the only pure population of McCloud River CA Redband rainbow that exists today. They were stocked into the stream by the railroad over 100 years ago and are thriving. I caught at least 20 today from 3" to 15". They were very pretty fish.
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Careful praising the earthworm, they can be a mixed blessing;
Invasive earthworms of North America - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_earthworms_of_North_America)
Back in the day we used to fish the smaller creeks feeding into the rivers in the area around Montauk state park and further north. We would catch "native" trout that had come out of the stocked areas and relocated into the cooler small streams. They would be as you say, 3 inches and up, we never caught any over about 10 inches. Using light fly rods and a knat fly, they were a kick and got us on the rivers. I suspect the creeks are harder to access now due to growth in populations.
Not much growth in those areas really. I've never fished the small creeks feeding into the current river around Montauk, but I have fished numerous small creeks in the state that have wild populations of trout. The one I fished yesterday is southwest of Springfield about 30 minutes. It was the best one I have fished. Another good one, Little Piney Creek, is just south of Rolla on the way down to Montauk. I have caught tiny ones and upto about 18" rainbows.
helped my buddy Dallas get his deer blind to his next location. he always has 3 or 4 sites, and has had cameras here for a few year. in the sand hills, lots of sand plumbs and various other weeds growing on their own.
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the last is on my property. @Old Greenhorn (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=42103)
Did you know the pygmies in the Central African Republic and Cameroon build dome shaped, leaf covered homes and they can build one very quickly? They start by cutting a bunch of limber poles for their framework. They stick one end of a pole in the ground then another opposite it and bend them together and tie the tops together. They move around the circle repeating the process till they have their frame finished taking care to leave a space wide enough for an opening between two of the uprights. Then they weave other sticks or poles horizontal in and out between the uprights for more rigidity and to hold the covering. When the framework is complete they start laying and weaving large leaves in with the stems up between the framework and the wide blade of the leaves facing down. They start at the bottom and work their way to the top so the leaves overlap and shed the water downward. As the leaves die and shrink they keep replacing them in the same framework. They can make a very water tight structure in very short order building it this way.
Did you know a handy trick to use when tracking a wounded deer or other animal is to drop small pieces of toilet paper or such every time you see a spot of blood? Then if you temporary lose the trail you can quickly find the last known point and start over from there. The pieces of paper will also often show you a clear direction of travel that will help you know where to look for the next blood. Sometimes the blood flow gets interrupted by an intestine or something blocking the entrance/exit hole and the blood flow will be reduced to infrequent, small drops. Further along the trail it may shift again giving you a good clear blood trail to follow till you find the animal.
Did you know that face flies that bother cows and horses so much do not like deep shade? This is why during the summer months my horse and my mule always stayed inside the barn/sheds. You would see them galloping across the pasture then run straight into the deeply shaded barn or shed and stay there until dark or cloudy windy days when they might come out.
On the flip side I remember deer flies in NC when I lived there avoided the sun and stayed in the shade of the wood line. I remember mowing the back yard and the last 4'-6' were under overhanging limbs and the fiercely biting deer flies were so bad there I could hardly mow it. A couple feet away in the direct sunlight they would not bother you.
I have a doe deer this year who is consistently bedding in a mud flat about 100 yards from my house. I built a dam between 2 trees by pulling a locust pole between them and put in a pipe and hose to a bathtub to water the stock. It has filled in with sand and mud washing down over the years and is in deep shade and evidently provides a very comfortable, cool bedding area she really likes. I can ride my 4 wheeler on the trail about 40 yards above it and she will just lay there and watch me. She is not alarmed and does not see me as a threat and will not move. She has a fawn running around the area back and forth to her. I am sure the shade helps keep the face flies and such away.
The yard squirrels have disappeared around the house, we could always see at least 5 at a time on the "lawn". The cottontails are still around. I saw a large raptor in the backyard the other morning, a hawk or maybe an owl, I didn't have my specs on, or a camera in my hands.
Did you know you can sometime call in or locate a squirrel by rubbing 2 nuts together which makes the same sound as a squirrel cutting a nut? Walnuts and hickory nut are especially handy for this because of their shape and texture. It is hard to rub a pair of round acorns together and get much volume.
OSF,
I was in a shooting house on the back side of my property several years ago watching a big fox squirrel under my deer feeder 10-15 yards away when suddenly I heard a loud rustling sound of feathers. I thought it was turkeys coming in as they were bad to raid my feeder. Instead it was a big hawk and he was after the fox squirrel. They made a couple of loops around a small hickory tree and I saw the squirrel dart away and I thought he had escaped but he came to a screeching halt. Turned out the hawk had his talons firmly gripped around the base of the squirrel's tail and he reeled him back in. Before he could kill it or fly off he saw me looking out the window of my shooting house and he turned the squirrel loose and flew away. The squirrel was in shock and jumped on a dead limb, ran to one end, sat a couple minutes then turned around and walked off the other way. He still seemed badly shook up but I assume he made it back to his den in good shape.
I once watched a Coopers' Hawk successfully get a Red Squirrel. I'd be happy if they got more of them.
Deer flies here are opposite, avoiding shade, sticking to the sunlight, as soon as you get sun on you, they're on you.
Same here, Hemlock. Get down by the swamp, but still in sunshine, they get fierce. We had a different name for deer flies when we were kids, one which I can't spell out here!
Quote from: wisconsitom on July 29, 2021, 08:56:33 AM
Same here, Hemlock. Get down by the swamp, but still in sunshine, they get fierce. We had a different name for deer flies when we were kids, one which I can't spell out here!
Pick your battle
I guess lol . Skeeters like that shade, deer flies in the sun. Deer flie bites sting a little. They can cut right through shirts with their mouth cutters
I remember the good old days on the rifle range (or anywhere else) on Parris Island at the recruit depot. The skeeters would tote you off till daylight. Then they would clock out at sunrise shift change and the sandflies would clock in but there was always something chewing on you.
Did you know if you get bit by a tick you should pull him out as carefully as possible trying not to squeeze him to much and not to break the head off in the bite? Old timers used to say put a lighter or lit match next to him to make him back out but in fact what that does is most often cause him to regurgitate his stomach contents into the bite just causing more risk of infection. Be alert to the bulls-eye appearance afterward as a possible indicator of Lyme's disease.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on July 29, 2021, 10:10:19 AM
I remember the good old days on the rifle range (or anywhere else) on Parris Island at the recruit depot. The skeeters would tote you off till daylight. Then they would clock out at sunrise shift change and the sandflies would clock in but there was always something chewing on you.
Yeah they can clock out for sure. That's why I wear a bug net these days. Be whatever bug you wanna be(it's 2021) but you ain't bothering me fella. Off onto the next poor victim, if any? I'm the only one around? Good then tire out and die.
Actually I encourage it,if I got a net on, come on there deer
Flies! Tire yer selves out, waste that energy, drop and die.
Another insect that can die is ticks, so they have their place in nature? Not in my
Perfect world. I'll burn and de limb every single one I find on me.
Just don't burn him till you have pulled him out. ;)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on July 29, 2021, 03:53:12 PM
Just don't burn him till you have pulled him out. ;)
I don't know who I've been over this with here but yes they are out of my skin by then lol . To be honest they don't ever make it that far,
I feel them as soon as they "latch"
Good lord I could work
Up a fuss right now. I hate those things so much, I don't care what anyone or any bioloigist says they are USELESS to the food chain. DIE
(Also chipmunks can DIE)
well you know they probably feel the same way about you! :D :D :D
No! When the bugs and ticks see me all they can think of is "yuum" and in the case of chipmunks they say "Whoopie, he's building us some more new homes."
Did you know that snakes and, I think, some lizards such as Gila Monsters and such, smell by tasting the air? That is why you see them flicking their tongue out all the time. They have an organ called a Jacobson's organ that interprets what they "taste/smell".
They also have some really awesome heat receptors, kinda makes me think of infrared. Natures FLIR!
Todd,
I knew that pit vipers had good heat receptors but is that true of other reptiles too?
Here’s one. Did you know woodpeckers tongue wraps around the back of their skull?, cushioning their brain from the blows to trees they do all day
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That's pretty cool and I had never heard that. We used to always joke about feeling like a woodpecker with a headache. :D
That brain cushion would be helpful for a proffessional boxer.
Did you know that geese like to eat two-stroke primer bulbs?
(There's no end to what can be learned on the FF.)
Quote from: btulloh on July 30, 2021, 10:22:17 AM
Did you know that geese like to eat two-stroke primer bulbs?
(There’s no end to what can be learned on the FF.)
Never back down from one of those, once they think they run the place they will keep chasing you or anyone lol you’d end up with a lot of missing primer bulbs, poop everywhere etc
I knew Canada geese would chase you if they had a nest or young nearby but the most aggressive bird I ever saw was a male swan in Norway who swam completely across a lake to chase me and my wife away. He was on the other side of the lake probably 400 yards away and the female and cygnets were on our side of the lake. We stopped for my wife to take pictures and the drake saw us, raised his wings about half way up and was paddling at ramming speed with his neck outstretched the whole way till we beat a hasty retreat. I have no doubt in my military mind we were about to be attacked! I still don't know why he did not just fly over as I am sure it would have been faster.
I've had those experiences with swans. I believe it was a mute swan, anyway, same thing as you, drake saw us, it was nesting on the other side of a pond at a wild life park, it came at us fast, and we
Walked back to the feeders threw some corn it's way and got out of there lol
When I had visited St. John NFLD they had a pond in the city that always had geese and swan, I stirred up some confidence and tried to feed the biggest swan there, it seemed real interested so I gave it a try and fed it right out of my hand lol didnt hurt at all even though he would bite your fingers. This swan was a big guy too probably a 6 foot wing span
Did you know that wild grapes are a dependable and preferred mast item for many animals and birds? The grapes typically get ripe in late summer to early Fall but because of their high sugar content they will not spoil and the fresh grapes not eaten off the vine will dry into raisins and remain a viable food source up into late winter.
Many birds, squirrels, coons, possums, deer, bears, etc will readily eat the fresh or dried grapes. Here in WV almost any wild turkey killed during our Fall turkey hunting seasons will have a crop full of grape seeds. Clusters of dried grapes will fall off the vine in winter and deer will readily eat the whole cluster. I'll munch on them along myself when I find them although many are very tart.
Wild grapes have many local names including fox grapes, possum grapes, etc and most are about the size of a buckshot when ripe.
I think I told this on the FF a while ago. I knew someone who made some jelly with wild grapes. A lot of sugar fixed the tartness, but it was runny. He gave me some and it was very good on pancakes.
KEC,
It sounds like it just needed more cooking to remove more of the water in the juice. I think you are supposed to have a certain amount of acid to help make it set so most recipes I remember call for 1/4 unripe fruit to be used. We use lemon juice or orange juice instead on most of our jelly and jam. I made some peach marmalade a couple years ago and evidently did not cook it down enough and it did not set. My MIL used to do that a lot with blackberry jam which was runny but still very good on a big hot old cathead biscuit. It was perfect on pancakes or French toast.
Some wild grapes are large and make good jelly. Muscadine grapes are just wild scuppernongs and they can be very large and, while the hulls are too tough to eat raw, they are an epicurean delight when cooked into Mucsadine Hull Preserves. When I make mine I squeeze the inside out and boil them several minutes till they break away from the seeds, I strain the cooked insides through a colander to separate the seeds, add the insides back to the hulls, add sugar and lemon/orange juice then cook stirring constantly with a wooden spoon until the preserves start to jell on the spoon or spoon rest then pour it up into jars, seal tightly and let cool. digin_2
We've been enjoying berry sorbets the past few weeks. A simple syrup and lightly smushed black, blue or wineberries, or tooty fruitti. Throw it in the little electric ice cream churn, multiple brain freezes later I still dig in too fast :D. A splash of vodka makes it smoother by breaking up the ice crystals. A friend carries it to the margarita end of that range.
Did you know a baboon is not listed as an ape? He is listed as in the monkey family. Apes are tailless primates and include gorillas, chimps, gibbons, orangutans, and bonobos. Humans are generally not described as apes but I sometimes wonder (especially after our last family reunion). They are in the hominoid family with gorillas and chimps.
I'm probably opening a can of worms or hitting a hornet nest with a short stick, but I believe what some say that humans behave much like chimps. They are prone to trying to gain dominance through violence and intimidation, among other things.
I don't know but if you have ever held and felt the hand and fingers of a 6 month old baby chimp or looked closely into the eyes of a gorilla or chimp you will be shaken. Trust me - there is something there besides animal instincts.
Since I don't like human babies hopefully it wouldn't be to much alike lol as long as there is no screeches or tantrums I guess.
I'm not sure I'd wanna get up close with a adult chimp either, they are known to just absolutely shred prey or animals up just for fun. Recently I seen a video of a raccoon that got into a chimp enclosure at a zoo. Boy was he in for a ride! They threw that thing around at a wall and sure had fun with it!
Did you know gorillas can climb trees? Most people know the small ones readily climb trees but until we had the opportunity to observe gorillas with the WWF researchers in the Central African Republic (CAR) I did not know even a huge 500 lb silverback can and will readily shinny 100' up into a huge jungle tree. We watched the silverback do that to collect some kind of orange fruit that was growing in the CAR jungle. I remember watching the silverback and my wife and some of the other trackers were watching a juvenile about 6 y/o and suddenly they just burst out laughing. Evidently junior climbed way up in a tree, grabbed a vine and did a "George of the Jungle" act and swung right into another tree. When I saw him he was hanging by one arm 40 ft above ground looking sort of embarrassed and trying to catch his breath. It looked just like something a human child of similar age would have done. When he was not climbing trees the juvenile would sit by a termite or ant nest and poke a stick into the entrance and wait a minute till the stick was completely covered with insects then he would casually slide the stick between his lips lick them off then repeat. He looked totally at ease the whole time.
Did you know rainbow trout are considered invasive species in Yellowstone and several years ago we were out there on a vacation and discovered fishermen were advised not to return them to the streams if they should catch one? They were to either keep it or kill it. I think the rainbows were causing problems with the native brown or other trout species.
Brown trout are not native to N America either. Imported from Europe.
JJ
Quote from: JJ on August 03, 2021, 10:46:58 AMBrown trout are not native to N America either.
Hence the full name (at least what we know them as) German Brown Trout
I may have been wrong about the term brown trout. I was not fishing and the fishermen I talked with just said something about native trout and I assumed they were brown trout. I never realized brown trout were imported. Then again, I am not a trout fisherman.
I fish for bream (Mostly bluegills) with a pole, flyrod and cork popping bug, jig and/or spinner and sometime crappie using similar tackle and I use set lines usually with live bream for bait for catfish.
I like to eat rainbow trout when I get the chance. Same with Walleye which I also don't fish for.
There is no comparison between Brown and hatchery Rainbows when evaluating intelligence/cunning and flavor. The hatchery bows are just dumb and bland. Still fun to catch. Now natives, maybe they were talking about brookies. Very prolific and the competition for food amongst them limits their growth. Out here, there is a 5 per day, 10 in possession on all trout except brookies. They have a separate possession limits - like 10 or 15 in some areas - to reduce the numbers.
WV
Cutthroat trout is the native trout for Yellowstone, I believe.
That is what I remember too from all my days as a youth reading Field & Stream.
Did you know that one of the most popular panfish people target in the Everglades is the Oscar - yep, the same one you buy in the pet stores for your aquarium? Evidently they got too big for people's aquariums and they released them into the local streams and canals and such and they seem to be reproducing and thriving. The biggest ones I saw there seemed to be around a pound or so.
The fishing I saw in the Everglades was generally along the cross Florida highway (Highway 41) where they dug up fill along the way for the roadbed leaving canals along side the road that are full of fish, alligators and water birds. In most places the water seemed fairly shallow but we were there in March at the peak of the dry season. People would stop beside the road and most used cane poles with a jig head on a monofilament line and used a worm or piece of cut bait on the jig hook. In most cases they could see the fish in the clear water so they would drop their bait right in front of it. Goggle-eyes and Oscars seemed to be mostly what people were catching although I suspect a lot of small largemouth bass were caught too.
You had to be very careful where you stepped as there seemed to be an alligator sunning himself on the bank every 100' or so as during the dry season the only significant amounts of water seem to be these canals and an occasional water hole out if the grass created by the alligators as a den area.
Did you know native American tribes used to eat acorns? They would collect and hull out the meat, pound and dry it then soak it several times in water to leach out the tannic acid. I visited a nearby reconstructed Indian Village (Wolf Creek Indian Village near Bastion VA) and the guide there once told us local Indians did the same thing with buckeyes. I had never heard of buckeye being eaten but they are a much larger nut with a soft shell.
According to William Bartram, a botanist who traveled thru Georgia in the late 1760's, the native Americans would collect hickory nuts, smash them, boil them, and the oil from the nuts would float on top to be skimmed off. He called it "hickory milk". They added this fat to the acorn flour to make a "johnnycake" type cake/biscuit.
Quote from: WDH on August 05, 2021, 08:56:37 AM
According to William Bartram, a botanist who traveled thru Georgia in the late 1760's, the native Americans would collect hickory nuts, smash them, boil them, and the oil from the nuts would float on top to be skimmed off. He called it "hickory milk". They added this fat to the acorn flour to make a "johnnycake" type cake/biscuit.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 05, 2021, 07:50:01 AM
Did you know native American tribes used to eat acorns? They would collect and hull out the meat, pound and dry it then soak it several times in water to leach out the tannic acid. I visited a nearby reconstructed Indian Village (Wolf Creek Indian Village near Bastion VA) and the guide there once told us local Indians did the same thing with buckeyes. I had never heard of buckeye being eaten but they are a much larger nut with a soft shell.
I have to admit, these 2 are great information. I knew about the acorn trick but not about the hickory nuts, that was great!
This entire thread has been full of interesting stuff, because it's all the facts of life! I LOVE it.
Smashing and boiling the hickory nuts sounds like a good idea if they were able to get the goody out of them that way. Actually the acorn Johnny cake made with hickory nut milk sounds pretty tasty. That with stone ground grits, fresh wild honey and some venison sausage make me wonder how the Europeans ever conquered this country.
I was always convinced a squirrel used more energy cutting a hickory nut than he got out of eating one. Kind of like cutting swamp cabbages.
Which reminds me - When the Europeans moved here they found a society where the men hunted and fished all day and the women did all the rest of the manual labor and the Europeans thought they could improve on this society. What were they thinking! ::)
I don't think your last paragraph will win you any sensitivity awards....
Danny,
I was just pointing out what should have been patently obvious to everyone.
I have told the tale of a day trip up the Dibamba River in Cameroon near Douala where I came across three local Africans who had been running a trotline and were paddling a heavy plank built boat about 20' long up a swift black water jungle river. There were 2 men and one woman and the men were kicked back relaxing while the woman did all the paddling - and she had to have been at least 7 months pregnant.
Since she only needed one paddle, I went ahead about bought one of the others for a souvenir.
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It is still downstairs and is at least 8' long.
Being the true gentleman that I am, I did have my boat captain tow then half a mile up river to their village.
I have thought many times about trading Becky in on an African wife who still retains the proper attitude and training on how to treat a husband! :D
Howard , don't mention this to your wife before I get a chance to meet you . I don't plan on packing funeral clothes! ;D
You are getting worse, not better. Like when one digs one's own hole deeper.
The problem with marrying properly trained Asian and African wives is when you bring them home the other American women take it on as their number one mission in life to change them and before long you you find yourself warming up TV dinners in a microwave, eating canned soup or eating canned biscuits and such. :(
Did you know there are differences in the way people skin a deer in the south/east coast and out west and in the far North? We typically hang the deer by the heels from a convenient tree limb or beam on the barn or shed, tractor fork, and I have even used a ladder. Out west it seems people skin and quarter the animal on the ground using the skin as a ground cloth to keep the meat off the ground. I assume this is mostly because there are fewer convenient trees out west and I know an elk, moose or bison and possibly even a mule deer are much larger than our whitetails and would be much harder to lift without a winch or mechanical equipment. Also we typically hang the animal by its heels while hanging them head up seems popular.
I watched Masai tribesmen in Africa skinning a cow on its hide laying on the ground and Mongolian herders in Mongolia doing the same thing with a sheep they were skinning.
The best skinning rack I ever saw was installed behind the hunting camp I used to hunt at in southern Ala It was mounted on top of cut off telephone poles about 10' above the ground on about a 3" diameter shaft in a pillow block bearing. The end was welded to an old hay rake wheel with 2 open hooks in the middle with 2 braided ropes with loops in one end and S-hooks on the other end. We'd throw the loop on the rope on the hook on the shaft, hook the S-hook in the deer's rear tendons and start rolling the hay rake wheel. We set it up so the rope wound outward as you wound upward which spread the deer apart the higher you lifted. We had a short chain with a hook on the pole and when you wanted to stop you could hook the anchor hook in a hayrake spoke and it would prevent the wheel from unwinding and would hold the deer in place. When you wanted to raise or lower just move the anchor hook and wind up or down as appropriate. A small kid could crank up and very big deer and it would have easily lifted a big cow if we'd wanted to use it for such.
Did you know that male bears mark their territory by scratching marks as high on a tree as they can reach basically to show how big/tall they are? I think some big cats may even do the same thing. Anyway, another male bear comes along and reaches up on the tree and if he can't reach the same height he knows the other bear is bigger and may leave the area to avoid a confrontation. If he can reach higher he makes new marks to tell the upstart to clear out. I guess if they are the same height they hang around and fight for the disputed territory and breeding rights.
I think dogs try the same thing to a degree but we have messed nature up with selective breeding and such creating short-legged dogs like basset hounds and dachshunds and such. They come along and mark their territory and the next dog comes along and smells the bush or fire hydrant to see how tall the last dog could spray. Of course this also does not work well because a Yorkie comes by and sprays the owners car tire then he moves the car and the mark is now at the top and the neighborhood Rottweiler comes along and sprays the tire as high as he can but can't reach but half way up and he determines the Yorkie must be a huge, bad dog and the Rottie goes home with his docked tail tucked between his legs.
About eating hickory nuts, Shagbark Hickory nuts are quite palatable. Bitternut Hickory nuts are aptly named. Are the nuts you guys say are boiled from Bitternut trees ? Some of the bitternut trees here get golf ball size galls on the twigs and big bumps on the trunk. I'll try to post a photo. Can you find Waldo ?
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I suspect both types were used. Maybe Danny can elucidate (and provide us with more info) as he read the article. I know both types are edible. Shagbark, IIRC, are smaller, flatter nuts with thinner shells. The ones I most remember were bigger, more round and with a harder shell.
She'll bark, shag bark, and mockernut hickories bear nuts with palatable meat. Not sure about the other species. Bartram's observations were in Georgia in the late 1760's. Some info about hickory from a Georgia nursery that grows them as nursery stock.
https://www.tytyga.com/America%27s-Historical-Hickory-Trees-a/324.htm (https://www.tytyga.com/America%27s-Historical-Hickory-Trees-a/324.htm)
This southern shagbark hickory tree will be a National Co-champion when I submit it to the National Registry of Champion Trees. It is an 800 acre bottomland hardwood forest that has not been logged or disturbed for many many decades. There are three champions here, the largest being a swamp chestnut oak over 6 feet in diameter.
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I think it was Mockernut hickory I was thinking of that were the big round nuts that were so hard to crack.
Did you know that during the mating season many males make loud calls to alert any females in season in the area which come to him to breed? Examples include Elk bugling, Turkeys gobbling, Bullfrogs croaking/bellowing, alligators bellowing, lions roaring, etc. There are many others but these come to mind.
Hunters use this trait to locate trophy animals and even call many of the animals to their gun/bow by answering like a female of the species. While in nature the female generally comes to the male, an over-anxious male will often carelessly reverse the trend and rush out to meet the female and this leads to his death. I guess he thinks she just can't make up her mind and is being coy with him. He knows once she sees his virile self she will no longer be able to resist his charms. :D
(Maybe/Probably this ties in well with my earlier posts about mis-assigned human work assignments and such among our different societies? ;))
Yes my favourite is the lyre bird! If you’re so lucky you can hear it’s chainsaw sounding mating call!! :D
Superb Lyrebird is the one that mimics chainsaws and many other sounds. Checkem out on YouTube.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C0ZffIh0-NA (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C0ZffIh0-NA)
Did you ever stop to think that animals that mate for life also share parenting responsibilities while the males that mate with multiple partners also do not help with the parenting? Think of eagles, Canada Geese, swans, bluebirds, etc.
My wife was talking with me this week about this fact when she noted the male bluebird in the back yard feeding the 4 young ones in the nest box and even handing off a grasshopper to the female to feed the babies or for her to eat. My wife did not know if the mother ate or passed it along. I had also told her how viciously I was attacked by the male when I opened the top to take updated pictures of the young. Anyway for animals that do not pair the mother bears the total child raising responsibility. Think deer, bears, turkeys, quail, raccoons, possums, etc.
I guess the male may help with some protection issues for troops and harems he oversees but otherwise does not help train or feed the young. Think Silverback gorillas, Bull Elks, Male lions, etc. They will help protect the females from predators and keep other males away but otherwise do not help raise the young.
I guess to a degree the same could be said of humans. ::)
Another fairly common bird that the male helps raise the young is the guinea fowl, or at least the "tame" farm guineas do.
That is big news to me. I thought they were like a rooster spreading pollen and chasing bugs and doing nothing else but warning when a stranger came up. I did not know they helped raise the young. Do yours pair off of does he have a harem of hens?
With Kiwi birds it's the Male that incubates the egg alone. The problem they have is the chick is born large, and leaves the nest right away, but isn't strong enough to fight off introduced predators. They evolved without mammalian predators, and used to be pretty safe at night in the bush( from eagles and falcons). But cats and ferrets take most of the young birds unless they are controlled. With predator control their numbers are increasing in many areas.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 10, 2021, 12:44:07 PM
That is big news to me. I thought they were like a rooster spreading pollen and chasing bugs and doing nothing else but warning when a stranger came up. I did not know they helped raise the young. Do yours pair off of does he have a harem of hens?
Depends on the rooster/hen ratio, generally both will be close together and help with the chicks, but if there is more than 1 pair all the adults will help out it seems.
I guess I am still a little confused on how much parenting a male guinea can/will do. Actually I don't think of the hen doing much other than keeping her chicks close and leading them to feeding areas and bunching them together and covering them under her at night or in the rain till they are big enough to fly up on the roost. I'd be real surprised to see a guinea rooster sitting on a bunch of chicks. I can't imagine either of them catching a bug and taking it to a chick like a bluebird or robin would do for nesting young.
When I originally mentioned parenting I was thinking of them incubating eggs or bringing feed to the young. Nursing babies for mammals is always going to be the mother although a few males will guard and protect their young from predators.
I’ve noticed in dark eyed juncos and grackle that the mother and father will continue feeding the offspring when it follow them around and squawks/flails it’s wings, I seen this as late as a couple days ago, which surprised me because I could hardly tell the difference between the parent and offspring as it was basically a full adult. The fastest adapting bird species I have noticed is nut hatches, the white nuthatches only spent 1-2week after leaving the nest following around the parents, after that they moved into their own territory just out back where they can be found any time.
Did you know birds, especially large birds, frequently are poor judges of the strength of tree limbs they select as a perch? It is funny to see but many times I have seen and my wife has even photographed several instances where an eagle or heron or such will circle a tree then gracefully spread his wings and settle gently on to a dead limb on a tree overlooking a lake or stream - only to have the limb and bird come crashing down toward or even into the water. I have seen herons actually fall into the lake 10-15 below and seen bald eagles scrambling to make a less than graceful recovery from the tops of tall sycamores along the river. It stands to reason it would happen but I have seen it enough to realize it much happen quite regularly. I guess the same thing happens with smaller birds too but it is easier to see with the bigger birds.
Spotted Sandpipers that you see along the edges of lakes, ponds and streams are a bird where the male incubates the eggs and tends to the young until they are independent. WV, you are probably glad you weren't born/hatched a Spotted Sandpiper. Here in Central New York, we've had a lot of rain this summer. Apple trees, Mountain Ash, and other mast trees are loaded with fruit. Spruces are heavy with seed cones. Should bode well for the birds and critters this fall and winter.
Been a good year for vegetation/trees here too. Just the right amount of rain and sun, perfect actually. The only thing that could go wrong from here till fall now is hurricane season or one heatwave or drought but that would need to happen within the week or 2 because we will start cooling down then.
Quote from: KEC on August 11, 2021, 09:48:21 PM
WV, you are probably glad you weren't born/hatched a Spotted Sandpiper.
:D :D :D :D
Did you know most trophy animals have very little impact on the population as a whole because they are normally past the usual breeding age? Other countries find our animal rights groups opposition to hunting over-aged male animals strange. African animals are great examples where the biggest and most desirable antelopes (Eland, Kudu, Impala, etc), lions, elephants and such are past their prime and younger bulls/males have long since taken over their harems/herds/prides and related breeding rights. The same is true for North American animals. A huge bull moose or grizzly bear is an impressive specimen but does he really still have the strength and vigor to defeat younger more aggressive males for breeding rights or is he happy to munch on his Geritol and enjoy his retirement?
Did you know the leaves on the Kudzu vine all die as soon as the first frost hits them? The vine itself will survive the cold weather but not the leaves. Kudzu is an invasive vine/plant brought in from Japan largely as ground cover and for soil conservation. It grows so fast in the southern USA whole towns have been lost to it. ::) It wraps up acres and acres of tall southern yellow pine plantations and I've seen old railroad spurs and rail cars lost under it. It is high in protein and makes good animal browse during the summer. The vines are harvested for crafts like holiday wreaths and such and apparently the flowers can be harvested to make jelly. The vine will run just beneath the surface of the soil and pop up 10-20 feet away from the last known location.
Oddly enough Honeysuckle is another Japanese invasive vine but it is an evergreen and tolerates cold weather very well. Both are good wildlife food but I would not recommend planting either.
Kudzu: The Invasive Vine that Ate the South (https://www.nature.org/en-us/about-us/where-we-work/united-states/indiana/stories-in-indiana/kudzu-invasive-species/)
Do you know what Tung oil is or where it comes from? Tung oil is an extract from a nut from a tree that came from China. It makes a great finish for wood and it is used in paints and varnishes and such. I love the look it brings out in Black Walnut and Cherry woods. I read the Chinese used it as fuel in their vehicles during WWII.
The nut and apparently the leaves, bark and the whole tree is toxic. Supposedly eating one nut is enough to kill a person. The leaf is a large heart shaped leaf similar to a Paulonia in size as I remember. The nuts looked kind of like a large hickory nut in an outer shell but I think the actual nut looked more like a chestnut or buckeye. We had one in our back yard as a kid till the roots got into the drainline and it had to go to Happy Mountain.
When I was a kid there was a town near Tallahassee Fla named Tungston as I remember. There used to be large groves of tung nut trees there that the nuts were harvested and used to make Tung oil. Evidently someone came up with a process to make synthetic tung oil because the groves were abandoned and the trees died then the next time I came through you could not even see the dead trees as the whole place was lost in the kudzu. I looked on line and could not even find the town listed any more so I assume it changed its name. I don't know if tung nuts are even grown commercially anywhere now. I think I heard they used to be common in parts of Louisiana and Mississippi.
Tung Oil | Biloxi Historical Society (https://biloxihistoricalsociety.org/tung-oil#:~:text=Tung%20nuts%20are%20grown%20on%20a%20tree%20indigenous,produce%20approximately%2020-25%20pounds%20of%20nuts%20per%20season.)
Tung Trees | Mississippi Encyclopedia (https://mississippiencyclopedia.org/entries/tung-trees/)
I've heard that a good portion of the Great Wall of China was sealed/finished with tung oil!
Did you know WV whitetails seem to love green cocklebur plants? I spotted several cockleburs around the edge of my yard in my pasture and along the creek bank and all had been heavily browsed by our deer. I don't know if they contain a vitamin or sugars they like but several had only the stalks, larger limbs/shoots, and seeds. I wish they liked them more and would dig up the roots and eat them too.
I have been doing a running battle with cockleburs and readily cut down every one I see as soon as I see it. I even keep a small hatchet in the basket of my ATV for that purpose. I guess the other option would be to let them grow and harvest the mature seeds and sell them to unknowing tourists from down south or such by telling them they are "porcupine eggs". :D
Did you know you are supposed to keep a buckeye in your pocket for luck and medical reasons? It is good luck to keep one on you and it is also supposed to be good for rheumatism and arthritis and such ailments. I am sure my grandfather had one in his pocket till the day he died.
Did you know that Jewelweed, AKA Touch-me-not is supposed to be helpful to treat exposure to poison ivy ? Crush the geen plant and rub the juice on the affected area. Many birds, including fall migrating warblers eat poison ivy seeds.
I did not know that. Looks to be well documented when you look on line. (Actually, I never knew it was called Jewelweed.) We have lots of Touch-me-nots around here. Mostly we use them to amuse the kids by touching the seed pods and watching them "blow up" and scatter seeds.
We encountered a similar plant characteristic in The Central African Republic only it was a tree with long, wide beans. We kept hearing this popping sound and we'd see one side of the bean pod laying on the ground in the trail that looked like the lost sole off someone's boot. We later learned it was the seeds "Exploding" and scattering the seeds. Ain't nature a grand thing sometimes.
Its also good for stinging nettles and they usually grow around each other.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 14, 2021, 08:47:08 AM
Did you know the leaves on the Kudzu vine all die as soon as the first frost hits them? The vine itself will survive the cold weather but not the leaves. Kudzu is an invasive vine/plant brought in from Japan largely as ground cover and for soil conservation. It grows so fast in the southern USA whole towns have been lost to it. ::) It wraps up acres and acres of tall southern yellow pine plantations and I've seen old railroad spurs and rail cars lost under it. It is high in protein and makes good animal browse during the summer. The vines are harvested for crafts like holiday wreaths and such and apparently the flowers can be harvested to make jelly. The vine will run just beneath the surface of the soil and pop up 10-20 feet away from the last known location.
Oddly enough Honeysuckle is another Japanese invasive vine but it is an evergreen and tolerates cold weather very well. Both are good wildlife food but I would not recommend planting either.
Kudzu: The Invasive Vine that Ate the South (https://www.nature.org/en-us/about-us/where-we-work/united-states/indiana/stories-in-indiana/kudzu-invasive-species/)
I was born in ms. In 1958 and have seen deserted farm buildings completely enveloped in kudzu. All while showing the outline of the building inc.uding the chimney.
If I remember correctly kudzu was imported to help control erosion, which it did too well. Problem was once it took roots it stayed and flourished.
Now big government money is being spent on "kudzu eradication"
You never know, going staying thick thin day night winter or summer.
Today's wonder, tomorrow's blight.
Excellent topic for responses. I started at the end going backwards.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 16, 2021, 08:34:36 AM
Did you know WV whitetails seem to love green cocklebur plants? I spotted several cockleburs around the edge of my yard in my pasture and along the creek bank and all had been heavily browsed by our deer. I don't know if they contain a vitamin or sugars they like but several had only the stalks, larger limbs/shoots, and seeds. I wish they liked them more and would dig up the roots and eat them too.
I have been doing a running battle with cockleburs and readily cut down every one I see as soon as I see it. I even keep a small hatchet in the basket of my ATV for that purpose. I guess the other option would be to let them grow and harvest the mature seeds and sell them to unknowing tourists from down south or such by telling them they are "porcupine eggs". :D
Someone has been listening to Jerry clower. Top choice by the way.
I have not listened to his old stories in a while but I certainly grew up listening to Jerry Clower, Windy Bagwell and Justin Wilson and others like them. Many of their tales I had already heard from friends and neighbors. Tall tail telling was a way of life where I grew up and the wilder they were the better. Masters of the art would never crack a smile no matter how outlandish the story because that would have made people challenge the credibility of the storyteller. My dad was a master at the art.
Did you know when telling a tall tale there needs to be enough truth in what you are telling to capture your audience's attention and make them always question "Did that really happen?"
Jerry Clower was raised and is buried at East Fork which is ~35 miles from me. He was a fertilizer salesman before he realized that his other "fertilizer" was much more profitable. Yes, there was enough truth in his stories that made the unbelievable....believable.
I was fortunate enough to eat lunch with Jerry several times and also Justin Wilson was the "camp cook" at my uncle's deer hunting camp so I have personally listened to both of them in a natural setting. Two classics.
Some of the conifers in my yard have cones the pop open to release seeds. For some time I could not fiqure out what I was hearing, it's like a clicking sound.
Did you know a rodent's teeth keep growing his entire life? This is why they constantly chew on hard wood, nuts and other items. If they they don't their teeth will grow so long they curl and they get to the point they can no longer eat. Keep this in mind if you have a rodent for a pet. Be sure not to feed him just soft foods.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 19, 2021, 08:42:55 AM
Did you know a rodent's teeth keep growing his entire life? This is why they constantly chew on hard wood, nuts and other items. If they they don't their teeth will grow so long they curl and they get to the point they can no longer eat. Keep this in mind if you have a rodent for a pet. Be sure not to feed him just soft foods.
I'd reckon it feels like a itch they constantly gotta scratch? Pups like chewing on stuff when their teeth are growing so I'd assume it would be the same feeling for rodents but for life unfortunately for them
Over the years I caught 2-3 woodchucks that had incisors that were mismatched and grew out looking like some sabre-toothed beast. They looked reasonably healthy. I cleaned one of the skulls and gave it to a local college that has a huge collection of wildlife specimens. If you boil a beaver skull and then extract the incisor teeth you might be amazed at how long those teeth are. The surface on the front of their teeth are harder than the rest of the tooth so when they chew it wears in such a way as to sharpen the teeth.
Did you know elephants tusks start growing at about one year old and replace the 2 front teeth that were there? Supposedly the tusks grow about 5" per year. Elephants have molars they use to grind their food that slide forward and replace teeth that wear out and fall out with age. They have several sets of these molars but when the last set finally falls out the elephant can no longer grind its food and he dies of starvation.
Grinding their food is a subjective matter and I have mentioned earlier that we were warned many years ago not to drive over piles of elephant dung because they sometimes contained full length acacia thorns that could puncture a truck tire. I don't know what the stomach and intestines of an elephant are like but they must be like a steel tube to allow some of the undigested foods to pass that you find in their soccer ball + sized dung.
I remember us leaving the Okavango Delta in Botswana and a herd of elephants had passed along the "road" a few hours before and we had to meander around many fallen trees. The elephants had pushed over acacia and mopani trees over one foot in diameter to reach the tender leaves and bark in the tops of the trees.
Did you know that it takes a newborn baby elephant about 6 months to learn how to use and become strong enough to be even moderately proficient with his trunk? It was one of the ways we used to gauge the age of a baby elephant in a herd. If he could reach down and pick up a leaf his mom or big sister had dropped and put it in his mouth we knew he was at least 6 months old. If he just kind of dragged it over the leaf we knew he was under 6 months. I guess that is like a newborn baby who takes a while to learn to focus on objects and become proficient enough to use his hands to pick it up and pull it to him.
Did you know when you say "Caribou" different people think of different animals? To a North American we think of the reindeer like animal in Alaska. When you say it to a Filipino he thinks of a Carabao or their native water buffalo, their national animal, used as a their draft animal for plowing the fields, towing carts, etc. If you say it to an African he probably will think you just mis-pronounced Maribou, their ugly carnivorous/scavenger stork
And if you leave the gate open, Reindeer instantly become Caribou.
??? ??? ???
One man's reindeer is another man's caribou.
??? ??? ???
Like a reindeer
Like a reindeer
Like a reindeer
on the run
Caribou
Years ago a friend was eating at a fancy restaurant in France. He saw caribou on the menu and thought what the heck and ordered it. He was a few bites in and the waiter came over and asked if everything was ok. "Sure, its all good but this isn't caribou, I've had both and this is horse." "The waiter grinned sheepishly "Yes but we cannot sell horse meat, the Americans, they won't eat Trigger".
Don,
If that is supposed to be verses from a famous song or something I guess I am still trying to figure out what the Cartwrights are doing with Rosa. ::)
We're just playing, they are the same species so a lot has to do with which side of the fence the critter is on.
I knew the reindeer are in Europe such as Scandinavia. Our Norwegian daughter says the last remaining wild herd is in her area and she and her dad go hunt them. I think they both use a 6.5 mm rifle. My BIL in Alaska hunts the caribou there. He lived on the remote area of Cold Bay, and old military air base, and they used to get permits based on family size and mostly harvested them as they migrated across the runway so they did not have to drag them too far to process them.
Like the difference between partridge and a grouse in Maine. ;D
Did you know a Ruffed Grouse is called a Native Pheasant and a Pileated Woodpecker is known as a Wood Hen in WV?
Quote from: JJ on August 22, 2021, 11:50:39 PM
Like the difference between partridge and a grouse in Maine. ;D
and wisconsin
Did you know the Harpy eagles in South America eat mostly arboreal mammals like monkeys and sloths while our American eagles eat more fish they catch or steal from other birds? We visited a young Harpy Eagle on the nest in Ecuador in December 2008. A young Indian man knew where the nest was and he guided us in to it after a 2 hour trek through the jungle. The young eagle could fly but was too young to leave the area so he stayed in the tree around the nest. We checked around the bottom of the huge tree with the nest and found a monkey skull and a sloth toenail.
EDIT: Oh yeah, no picture, it didn't happen.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2730.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1629837788)
The dime is for scale - not what I paid for them at the flea market.
Did you know cows don't actually directly get their nutrition from grass, but rather the bacteria that feeds on the grass as it ferments in the cows stomach?
I did not know they were being fed bacteria. I knew there was bacteria that broke down the grass and I figured they got their nutrition from the digested grass. I figured the same is true for meat eaters and omnivores, including humans, who eat their food and it is broken down by bacteria in their stomach into the basic contents that can then be absorbed into their bloodstream, etc. Maybe our resident doctors reading this thread can elucidate (and make it clearer) for us.
WV, it seems as though ALL nutrition is indirect. The only way that "I" know of would have to still be through some form of being a parasite like the human vampire 🧛♂️ although vampires do exist in science, but only in parts of South America IIRC.
Todd,
I think you will find Vampire bats also range at least as far north as Mexico although I thought they even ranged up into Southern Texas. I can't find any verification they range that far north. I knew they had sharp teeth and basically lanced their target animals skin and lapped up the blood as it seeped out. I think they were a big spreader of rabies because of this process of biting a sick then a healthy animal much the same as a mosquito biting someone with Malaria then a healthy person.
About the cattle, I think they get nutrients from the grass after the bacteria break it down and by digesting the bacteria, too. At Cornell University in Ithaca, New York they do research on this subject. I went to an open house there when my neice was a veterinarian student there. They had a cow with what looked like a cap for a gas tank on her side. They could remove the cap and reach into her stomach to take samples. Animal rights types like to tell how some animals are strict vegetarians when, in fact, cattle eat bacteria and many "herbivores" ingest insects and snails and such with the plants they eat. I once heard that people who had captive manitees were trying to get them to breed in captivity, without success. Turns out they were not getting enough protein in their diet of "clean" lettuce that they were being fed. In the wild, manitees eat aquatic plants along with insects and shrimplike critters providing necessary protein.
The USDA had a research farm about 10 miles up the road from me when we first moved here and they had 2 cows they used for digestion research as KEC describes. They had a permanent "door" cut into the sides of their stomachs and a plastic or rubber "donut" with a flap around the incision. One was an angus with a black donut that was very hard to see. The other was a Hereford with a red donut that did not match the color well and was readily visible.
Did you know that nearly all predators will readily steal a meal from other predators and most are also scavengers and will readily eat any dead fish or animal they find? If you want to see large numbers of majestic Bald Eagles in Alaska the best place to go check is probably the local city dump where they will be foraging through the scraps they find and possibly they catch rats and mice. Lions and Hyenas will readily steal a kill from each other based on who is stronger, faster and has the greatest number of helpers. Jackals sneak up and grab small pieces of meat from the kills of other animals. Wolves, bears and coyotes will steal from each other based on size and strength in numbers. Channel and blue catfish eat cut bait but normally catch their own live bait. (A flathead cat is generally an exception and eats only live bait.) Eagles steal a good percentage of their meals from other birds such as ospreys and herons.
This trait is the basis for a predator call. A predator hears what sounds like a dying rabbit or fawn and assumes another animal has caught a prey and they rush over to steal it from him. Trappers use the scavenger trait to bait their traps with meat or hide and catch predators coming for a meal.
Long ago I read an article about the Burnham Brothers, famous for their predator calls here in the USA, going to Africa to see if their dying rabbit calls worked on predators over there. They found they worked just as well there as here and very nearly got eaten by lions in the process! Hunters here in America have reported being attacked by or having to shoot to defend themselves from coyotes, mountain lions, bears and bobcats that came to their call so if you use such a call be sure to watch behind you too.
all energy comes from the sun. some high fiber compounds may be hard to digest. we may use a fungus or bacteria to break it down or convert to storage forms. we turn milk protein into cheese, and grain into beer. we are always trying to store and concentrate the food value of food. many products were developed thousands of years ago to this end. you can take grain and make pasta or bread. plants take energy from the sun and combine CO2 and H2O to make plant material. It makes sugar or starch and gives off O2. the seeds or fruit are often the most concentrated energy in the plant. these tend to be easier to carry or store. Humans also eat other animals as a concentrated energy source. some food trans ports itself. cows can be herded or lead behind a wagon. we can get milk daily, or harvest the meat. We need the O2 to get the energy back out of the food. and we make CO2 and water again. this is the real circle of life, but was too hard to make into a song for the Lion king. :D :D :D
Doc,
You never know what some enterprising FF member may cook up to compete with the Lion King using digestion as a story line. After all Bill Murray and Chris Rock teamed up to make Osmosis Jones that great medical movie with a white blood cell as the hero and just at the direst moment in the film an antibiotic comes to help save the patient. My nurse DIL loves it and my son thought it was funny when the WBC tells someone to go to the anus to hire a good lawyer as that were they all hung out.
Osmosis Jones (2001) Official Trailer - Bill Murray, Chris Rock Movie HD - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hf-3pPkRwY)
:) ;) :D ;D :laugh:
A little more on the ruminants, think of it this way, the cow, deer, moose or whatever eats plant material, chews it up, drinks water and it creates the perfect warm culture for bacteria to grow in. Along with the nutrients derived from this, heat is produced, just like in a pile of sawdust, chips or a bag of cattle grain made by grinding up grains that were not dried. So the critter is helped to stay warm in cold weather. I remember my Dad had grain ground with corn with high moisture and that grain really heated up. The cows loved it until it got too mouldy.
Quote from: doc henderson on August 25, 2021, 08:13:03 AMplants take energy from the sun and combine CO2 and H2O to make plant material. It makes sugar or starch and gives off O2.
Starch, sugar... or cellulose, another twist of the molecule. We don't have the right gut flora to convert cellulose to sugar but other critters do. I had a biology prof who said that if you want to feed the world and become a billionaire crack that nut (so to speak).
NCSU had a few cows with windows as well, pretty neat.
I read somewhere a researcher zapped termites with some type of radiation and it killed the bacteria in their gut and they could eat all the wood they wanted but still starved to death because they could not digest it. Maybe this is the start a new diet fad - take a pill to kill the bugs in your belly, eat all you want and still lose weight. When you reach your target weight you take another pill to restock your system with bacteria and go back to digesting what you eat and holding your own or gaining weight.
Actually, I think this was tried or something similar. :P You'd swallow a little pill, you'd start to lose weight then you'd take another and go back to gaining weight. All was good till some busybody doctor/researcher (I did not say he was from Kansas) examined the pill and found the first one had a hookworm in it which established in your gut and took much of the food you digested. When you hit your target weight you took pill #2 which was basically a de-wormer pill that killed your parasite and you went back to retaining your weight. :) It was supposedly simple, painless and worked then some busybody from the health community ruined it for everybody. :( Actually, I understand there were other negative health issues with hosting a hookworm in your gut. ::)
From my understanding borate disrupts their gut bacteria, wood eating bugs cannot get nutrition from the wood and starve.
I got C diff, a bad bacteria run wild in my gut. That was a really good diet, about 30 lbs but it took a long time to get mamma's good bacteria going again. Maybe Doc can comment but one thing that happened during that is my blood pressure about broke the glass on the doc's gauge. I've heard of the same thing in cows with a messed up gut, they stroke out. I've noticed several times an elderly friend or family member will get C Diff and the cause of death is a heart attack. I think those bugs are tied to us much closer than just breaking down our food.
Don,
My wife got on the C-diff diet plan several years back and also lost about 30 lbs or so. She still fusses about not being able to wear her old clothes and having to get a new outfit every time we have a special event to attend.
we all have c-diff in our gut, along with all kinds of other competing bacteria. If you take an antibiotic, and kill all the other "good" bacteria, the clostridium takes over and produces a toxin. had not heard about the hypertension, heart attach concern.
Did you know most mammals are color blind? The exceptions I can think of who see color are primates like humans, monkeys, chimps, apes, etc. Most diurnal birds see in color while owls and other night birds see mostly black and white.
Did you know wolf spiders can run 2 feet per second? They are great hunters, they mostly hunt during the night, these spiders do not weave webs. I have seen some reach 1.5 " dia
C diff is a serious issue for people with long hospital stays according to what I hear from medical people at the hospital where my wife is having a long stay. She has been tested thrice for it but thankfully she has been negative each time. Special gowns must be worn by people entering the room if the patient is suspected to have C diff and are discarded each time they leave that room.
Danny,
I hope your wife gets out soon with no long term effects.
Like Doc said we all have C-diff. Apparently it is in our noses and such and has little to any effect on us until it gets in the wrong areas of the body or wrong proportions and I have never understood what caused the change but I can assure you it is not fun to have or watch someone you love who has it.
it is the proportion. usually after use of antibiotics, needed or not. the treatment is to take someone else stool, put it in a blender, give it as an enema to re-establish normal bacterial flora. and you wonder why medical people have a off sense of humor. :) you can sample the nose for what is normal flora, to represent what is in the rest of the body. this is why a good doctor does not prescribe antibiotics for every little infection, and certainly not for things the antibiotic will not help, like viruses.
Doc,
In all honesty that is too much information. :D ::) :o Just tell me you are going to make me all better and you can skip telling me about the pooh sniffing and the enema from the guy in the next bed. :-X
Since snakes seem to be popping up in other threads this week did you know that some snakes eat other snakes? The most common snake most of us think of eating other snakes is the King Snake so be careful in determining the species of any snake you find rather than just arbitrarily killing it out of hand. Even snakes that don't kill others often do a great service eating mice and chipmunks and other rodents that do significant damage around the farm and sawmill.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/DSCF0578_Dead_cobra_and_smaller_snake_in_Faranah_camp.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1630067593)
I apologize for the poor photo but this is a picture of two dead snakes I found at Faranah (our construction camp) in Guinea in West Africa. Evidently the larger cobra had crawled into our camp and eaten a smaller snake. Our local security found and killed it and it regurgitated the smaller snake which is also a common defense mechanism when threatened.
This article lists several snakes that eat others. I was surprised to find some of them on the list.
Snakes That Eat Other Snakes (10 Species) - Wildlife Informer (https://wildlifeinformer.com/snakes-that-eat-other-snakes/)
Have you ever tried frying up a snake Howard ?
I have eaten fried rattlesnake a few times but it is no longer on my menu as my foolish youth has expired.
Quote from: WDH on August 27, 2021, 08:53:12 AM
I have eaten fried rattlesnake a few times but it is no longer on my menu as my foolish youth has expired.
It didn't taste like chicken?? :D
Is that a common dish down there or more of a last resort survival
Food type? Would think there is good protein from a snake
HK,
I am with Danny and have eaten rattlesnake and it was okay. Tasted a little dry but could have just been the way it was fixed. Viper and Varans (I assume monitor lizard) was a common item on the menu in most restaurants in Cameroon. A young man who worked for me had to take and cook some bushmeat to his future in-laws in Cameroon when he got married so he bought 70 cm of python, wrapped it in banana leaves, added spices and cooked it slow over a charcoal fire and it was a big hit. Most other snakes just taste to me like a cross between a spotted owl and black-footed ferret so I usually pass on them. ;) :D ???
Quote from: HemlockKing on August 27, 2021, 09:09:16 AM
Quote from: WDH on August 27, 2021, 08:53:12 AM
I have eaten fried rattlesnake a few times but it is no longer on my menu as my foolish youth has expired.
It didn't taste like chicken?? :D
Is that a common dish down there or more of a last resort survival
Food type? Would think there is good protein from a snake
More like a he man strut sort of thing, usually at wild game dinners. Rattlesnake to me smells and tastes bad.
I knew you must had at least tried it being how travelled you are lol
Making up dishes now are with with the spotted owl? What was that spotted owl chowder??! :D :D
For a while we had Spotted Owl Helper around here. 8)
Rattlesnake meat is like white chicken meat, taste like chicken that has fed exclusively on fish, and has a rattlesnake musky smell as you bring the fork to your mouth. That rattlesnake musky smell that makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up when you smell it in the woods but cannot locate it.
Danny,
I know the feeling and I get the same one just watching a big rattlesnake buzzing at me even when he is safely behind glass in a big terrarium or such. Even though I know he cannot reach me the chill bumps are running road races up my spine and getting around a marsh with a big old cottonmouth stinking up the area. I don't know how you describe that to someone who has never smelled an angry snake or heard a rattler buzzing at you in a blackberry patch where you can't see him.
HK,
Sorry but it is an old secret family recipe I am not at liberty to divulge.
I will relate a true family story. When I was 7-8 years old I went hunting with my paternal grandfather in Dixie County Fla in a place named Pumpkin Swamp. As we were hunting a big woodpecker flew by and Grandpa Green changed his shot from buckshot to small shot and he said "Woodpeckers are good eating but you don't hardly ever see them old big ones like we used to shoot around here." Fast forward about 12-13 years and I was studying wildlife biology at Auburn University and I was doing a research paper and chose as my topic Ivory-Billed Woodpeckers. During the course of my research I came across several articles saying, except for a few thought to possibly remain in the hills in Cuba somewhere, the North American Ivory-Billed Woodpecker was thought to be extinct. The last known population recorded was a few birds that had been spotted in Pumpkin Swamp in Dixie County Fla but they had not been seen in over 50 years and I realized my grandfather and his family had almost certainly contributed to the demise of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker.
Did you know that Spanish moss is an epiphyte meaning it lives on a host but does not draw its nutrition or such from the host tree as a parasitic plant would do? This is not to say Spanish moss does not cause damage to its host tree because it definitely puts some strain on it to carry the weight and blocks access to sunlight.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 28, 2021, 07:35:44 AM
Did you know that Spanish moss is an epiphyte meaning it lives on a host but does not draw its nutrition or such from the host tree as a parasitic plant would do? This is not to say Spanish moss does not cause damage to its host tree because it definitely puts some strain on it to carry the weight and blocks access to sunlight.
Same thing as lichen around here, we call it old mans beard, it's whiteish light green.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/65126/98291A0D-714A-43E6-A731-73E6FBA79D1B.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1630169869)Deer love it too!
I did not realize or had forgotten anything ate lichen. Through the fog that is my memory these days it seems like I was supposed to know Reindeer/Caribou ate it.
Dad used to say old range cows in central Fla would eat Spanish moss when times were hard. He said old Brahma range bulls would be round fat eating it while the much smaller mixed breed scrub cows were starving to death. A big old Brahma bull could reach moss 10'-12' off the ground while standing on all four feet and I think some would stand on their hind legs to reach even higher.
From what I can tell the deer here prefer to eat it in winter when there is less available vegetation, their main go to here is oak and red maple(they love those sucker stumps with lots of sprouts). In the winter I will cut down a tree and come back the next day and see deer tracks all around it and lots of the lichen gone lol
HK,
I don't know what the nutritional value of lichen is but it sounds like deer and such may be eating it in the lean periods more for fill than for the actual food value. I've watched whitetail deer here in WV browsing beech leaves on low growing limbs (One of the few that remain on the tree later in the Fall and early winter) or picking up fairly freshly fallen leaves of assorted hardwoods and eating them. I don't think there is much food value but it might be like us eating popcorn or rice cakes or such so we don't pig out on the pizza and chocolate ice cream.
The old mans' beard is Usnea. Northern Parula Warblers are noted for nesting in it. I know nothing of its' nutritional value to deer, but deer will eat mushrooms and, I think that it may not be overly nutritious, but it has various minerals in them.
Do you know how to properly enter a hammock? I am not talking about the backyard version with spreader bars on each end. I am talking about the string version you sometimes see for sale at outdoor outfitters or the kind routinely used by South American Indians. They are versatile and they do keep you up off the ground/jungle floor.
You first tie both ends of the hammock to a secure post or beam to the desired height - normally about 30"-36" - then you straddle the hammock, grab the tops of the hammock on both sides at your hips and pull them apart and slide into it then leaning back will spread the tops further and finally you put your feet up in it. To exit you just reverse the process taking your feet out over both sides and standing up.
We visited Peru in March 2010 and we landed in Iquitos, the city at the most distant point on the Amazon River that ocean going ships can visit. From there we went by ferry up the Amazon River to the most distant point a ferry could pass. On such a trip you would buy "hammock space" on the ferry just like you would a room on a train or larger ship. They had heavy pipes welded parallel to the deck on the sides and in the center of the ferry and you could either rent or buy and use your own hammock and tie it to the pipes. Since most of our journey was at night we spent most of our time in our hammocks after our guide showed us how to safely enter and exit the hammock. He did warn us to keep our shoes on or in the hammock as other people would sometimes steal them. On our return trip we encountered a group of your tourists and a couple of the young women had had their shoes stolen on the ferry we were on. They were walking barefoot and the ships deck was very oily and the soles of their feet were completely black. During our stay we often camped in the Indian villages and they would have hammocks tied to the poles of the huts we stayed in. Most of the time we just stayed in our screened in tent due to the various biting insects.
I had a counterpart when I was a Lt. in the USMC at Parris Island took his hammock out on field training on Page Field training recruits. He strung it between two pine trees and slept well until he got up and when exiting his hammock he stepped down on a 5' rattlesnake who was some displeased and showed how much so by promptly biting him just above the boot top. It must have been a dry bite and he did not have any significant reaction and was released on light duty and just loosened his boot laces. Then again, he was kind of a snake magnet and had been bitten by a cottonmouth in Louisiana as a teen and I think by a Habu (a poisonous Japanese viper) in Okinawa on a previous tour so maybe he had built up some natural resistance.
Did you know there are rabbits in Africa? I knew we had them in America and Europe but did not know they were also native to the southern part of Africa. I remember seeing one hiding under a bush in Namibia while we were touring through there. He was actually a hare similar to a jackrabbit out in the western USA.
Careful, it seems as everything in Africa & Australia is poisonous :D
I can't answer for Australia as I have never been there yet but my observations in Africa did not disclose many more toxic plants and animals in Africa than what I saw where I grew up in NW Fla where we had our share of venomous snakes, spikey vines and briars and even alligators. The big difference I saw in Africa was there were a lot more animals that would rip you apart, stomp you flat or swallow you whole.
The biggest threat between getting bit by a mamba, cobra or Gabon Viper compared to being bitten by a big eastern diamondback was more likely the extra distance to and availability of qualified treatment.
Do you know the old squirrel hunting trick of making the squirrel "turn the tree"? It is best done with at least 2 hunters and works great when you have kids along. It does not require stealth and patience and is basically a leisurely walk through a woodlot where squirrels are likely to be feeding especially in late winter when the leaves are off the trees. Try to pick a sunny, windless day when possible. The squirrels spend much, if not most, of their time on the ground looking for fallen nuts and seeds. In some cases they will be digging up the ones they buried earlier in the year. When alarmed, such as by seeing or hearing someone walking toward them they run up a nearby tree, normally a large one, and hide on the back side out of sight of the threat. To hunt them the hunters both walk up close to the tree. I like to walk up together so the squirrel does not know there are 2 people. Next the "shooter" stops and remains quiet and relatively motionless where he can see the large tree and the "chaser" walks a wide circle around the tree shaking bushes and kicking up dry leaves and such. The squirrel will hide as best he can and will try to keep the tree between him and the "chaser" and slowly turns around up in the tree exposing himself to the shooter who bushwhacks the squirrel when he has a clear shot at the tree-rat. If you have 2 adults you can rotate the duties. If you have a 5-6 y/o he/she makes a great "chaser" as he can make as much noise as he wants. If you have a young or new hunter let him/her be the shooter and the adult can be the chaser. Kids of all ages love this kind of hunting and spending the time with the kids or any new hunter makes for a great day.
If you happen to walk past a tree with a leaf nest and a grapevine running up it be sure to first pull the vine gently then more vigorously to chase out any sleeping squirrel or any that just took cover in the nest. I have run as many as 5 squirrels from one nest and occasionally a coon. Starting gently will often make the squirrel run up the tree a couple of feet and stop while violent shaking often makes him come out and run from tree to tree or even jump out and run away on the ground which makes it very difficult to shoot. Another trick is to rub a rough limb up and down against the tree to vibrate and sound like a predator climbing the tree to make a wary squirrel move and expose himself.
A modified version of this "shooter/chaser" technique when hunting alone can be done by taking a long roll of cord and tying it to a small, preferably noisy, bush then walk to the other side of the tree and pull the cord violently to make the squirrel change sides of the tree. Or you can simply pick up and throw dead limbs into a noisy bush or patch of dry leaves on the other side of a likely tree. You can also walk a couple of circles around a large tree and watch for the squirrel moving and often going higher up the tree where it is harder for him to hide completely. Often a careless squirrel will hide on the back side of a tree but leave the tip of his tail exposed on the back side so watch for such when walking through the woods.
The absolute best case for squirrel hunting is when you have and add a good squirrel dog to chase the squirrel up the tree and hold him there till you walk up and use the technique above. A small mixed breed terrier, feist or cur is a preferred breed but N. elkhounds, shepherds, beagles, even poodles sometimes make good squirrel dogs so if you have a good pet take it along and see what it does. My grandfather had a retired bluetick hound who had gotten too old to hunt coons and a rat terrier. The hound would get on the trail and eventually tree a squirrel a long way off but often on the way to the hound the terrier would spot and tree 3-4 squirrels.
You must not have red squirrels lol . Don't need to try hard to find them, they will get irritated you are in their "territory" and will start making a bunch of alarm calls, even following you around a little lol they are smart, right now the trees like
Balsam and spruce have fat cones, they will climb to the tree and cut loose 5-10 usually to the ground, then retrieve them, pretty smart for a squirrel imo, they know it would be less efficient to knock one loose, go down for it, repeat.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/65126/0A465110-EA4C-4F76-814D-502AC2C5B0C5.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1630418438)
Bonus picture of a rabbit(snowshoe hare) hanging out in the middle of my trail lol he allowed me to get within 3 or 4 ft.
HK,
Our squirrels are all psychic. They know when we are hunting them and when we are doing so, they keep silent. They do know when we are deer or turkey hunting and such and that is when they will jump on a low limb or the side of a tree and chatter loudly and switch their tail and tell everything in the area exactly where you are. ::)
The hare seems to be exhibiting normal rabbit behavior. It is very common for them to freeze next to a small bush or such and let you walk right past them. I don't know how many times I almost stepped on one, sometimes in a bare pasture with sitting next to an isolated clump of weeds or a brier or such, causing me to nearly have a heart attack when he'd jump and run. I've had a covey of quail do the same thing and I'd be trying to swat them out of the air with my shotgun as they buzzed past my ear. For the record I never hit one with such tactics.
When I used to stalk hunt deer a lot I used to carry a folding wrist-rocket type slingshot with a hollow handle filled with #1 buckshot for ammo in case I encountered a rabbit hiding in such a fashion. My plan was to kill the rabbit with my slingshot. I could also use the slingshot to shoot a tree or bush to make noise on the other side of a wary deer to divert him past me. In both cases this was another of my plans that was excellent in theory but lacking in execution. ??? Kind of like the time I put on a pair of waders and eased down the creek to sneak up on the big bucks I knew had to be there. Hey - I did sneak up on and kill a big coon that trip but a 30-06 is overkill for one of them. It took his head right off at the base of his neck.
I’ve been trying to tame the rabbits so I can treat them with tick treatment, have them run around and kill all the ticks that latch on. No ticks on this guy, I haven’t seen a tick since mid July either. So far my plan isn’t working though lol, there is another that doesn’t freeze per say, but just grazes grass and will let me get within 4 feet, then it will dart, it’s not like it’s trying to not be seen and freeze though! So have me
Hope for taming it.
So now I have this vision stuck in my head of all the rabbits and hares in Nova Scotia running around wearing flea collars. :D What's next? Porcupines? Weasels? Wolverines? ;D
Collaring a wolverine reminds me of the article I found while in college and doing research on a paper and came across and read in the Journal of Wildlife Management with the title "Rectal temperatures of hibernating bears in Minnesota". (Look it up - its there!) I don't know who came up with the plan or what it led to. Maybe "Identifying cavities in the teeth of Nile crocodiles and hippos in Africa."
Heck I don’t know I thought there was some droplet stuff you could treat their coat with? lol
That’s quite the paper, I wonder what was the reasoning of needing To know that ??? :)
prob. had 50 PHd candidates on the paper, but only one was able to accept the credit! :)
I wonder if the lone graduate had bite marks, scars and stitches when he accepted his diploma? :D
BTW folks - don't get sidetracked with the rabbits and wolverines wearing flea collars and sleepy bears with thermometers up their poop chutes and forget to read and comment on the squirrel hunting mentioned above. I am confident there are plenty of present and past squirrel hunters with stories and experiences to pass along.
I rarely shoot a squirrel now as I like having them as early warning beacons for my deer hunting but I sure enjoyed it as a kid and young man. My son's "retarded" dog looks to me like he would be perfect for it as he is fast, very alert and seems to have a good nose. A good squirrel dog will see as many, if not more, than he smells out.
Best hunting for squirrels is sitting quiet in a hard wood. Good for the soul.
Squirrel dumplings? How would you guys cook one up
HK,
I'm hoping for some good replies to that question. My old mentor I hunted squirrels with would fry them brown then wrap them loosely in foil and float them on about an inch of water in a pressure cooker and cook them so tender they'd fall off the bone (Which was the idea as he'd already lost his teeth). We'd eat them with home ground coarse yellow grits, hushpuppies and home canned field peas and nothing better. digin1
TR,
You are right too and it is effective and good training for bigger game. If you can see where he lands and are sure he is dead it is often good to just let him lie when you shoot him and another will often come out without knowing where you are and you can shoot several in the same spot. If you question whether it is just wounded I feel I am ethically obligated to get up and go get it so I don't lose it or allow it to suffer.
The walking technique is good for young kids who don't have the patience to sit still for long periods of time. They do not enjoy the still hunting but like walking through the woods with Dad or Grandpa and getting to make as much noise as they like. taz-smiley When they get older you can take them on a still hunting trip.
When I was a young man, I had a redbone hound named Hambone, affectionately known as bone-doggle. I picked him up from the county dog pound as an older puppy. He loved to go squirrel hunting with me. I would pick out a good tree and scrape all the leaves from around it so that I could sit and he could lay quietly. He would quietly scan the surrounding trees just like I was doing looking for squirrels. Very therapeutic and peaceful. He was a loyal companion until he went to Happy Mountain. By then, we had quite a few squirrels under our belt.
Danny,
I have many fond memories of wandering through the woods or out on the water with various K-9 companions. In many ways it is like Texas Ranger talking about peaceful sitting. I've had a Dachshund basset cross, her half beagle pup who turned out to be the worlds best squirrel dog and a great coon dog, a cocker spaniel and currently my catfish hound Sampson.
Your tale reminds me and I'll repeat the tale about when Dad got out of the Army at Ft. Benning and brought home Muggs, the company mascot, a big male boxer dog. They moved into a small rent house near where they eventually settled, had my older brother who was a year or so old and their home became a hangout and rescue center for every stray dog in the community. Eventually they accumulated too many strays and had to thin the pack but my brother played with them all so Dad had to be discrete in his actions. After work he'd decide to go "squirrel hunting" down near the creek behind his house so he would call Muggs and several of the strays, he'd pick up his old 12 gauge Parker double barrel and go hunting. A few hours later he and Muggs would come home. After several such "hunts" the stray dog situation resolved itself. Then one day Dad decided to go squirrel hunting, grabbed his gun, called Muggs and walked out the back gate. Muggs started and when they got to the gate he looked back and saw there were no other dogs coming and he immediately turned around and went home and refused to go. He evidently did not mind playing Judas Dogg but being the sole participant at the party did not appeal to him.
As to the Redbone hounds, my uncle gave my grandfather one when Grandpa was 75 y/o. Red turned out to be exactly the kind of deer dog Grandpa wanted and he went everywhere with him and he was one of the highlights of Grandpa's declining years. When old Red finally died (he'd barely survived a rattlesnake bite, catching a bear but the heartworms got him) my cousin's husband offered to mount him. Grandpa was "highly" offended and said Red was going to get a decent burial.
BTW - did you know there are squirrels in Africa? I did not know they had them till I worked and we vacationed there. On a trip to the Atlantika Mountains along the border of Cameroon and Nigeria our driver, Henry, ran over a grey squirrel similar in size to one of ours. He stopped and got him to cook for dinner. That night we cooked our dinner over an open fire and when we finished cooking we moved the pot and Henry tossed the squirrel directly into the coals, singed all the hair off, scraped the stubs off with the knife blade on my Leatherman, finally gutted the squirrel and made a small X-shaped frame from 2 sticks and cooked the squirrel in front of the fire. He ate half for dinner and saved the rest (No refrigeration) for breakfast.
Henry told us if we had been at home he would have been obligated to give the squirrel to the head men of the village who would have eaten it but since he was off away from his village he was allowed to keep and eat it. He considered the squirrel a rare treat and a feast. It brought home to me how little protein many of the people over there actually get in their diet.
Well that’s one way to skin a squirrel , into the coals!! There was this method I tried last time that was rather quick and easy, a couple slices around the butt end, step on the tail, pull the rear legs up and tear the skin right off to the neck, chop it off at the head. I followed a video I found on YouTube for it. Will probably use that method next time.
Ahh. Here it is: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4c8OyexZ10E (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4c8OyexZ10E)
My mentor showed me and I've used that technique for over 50 years. Our folks always wanted the heads saved so I'd trim a little around the ears then cut the skin off right in front of his nose. I'd cut the back feet off so when I pulled the skin on the belly and down his back legs it came off cleanly. Next I'd split the pelvis open, stick a knife in the chest cavity and rip open to pelvis and pull all the insides out. The heads were fried and my old mentor would rap them with the back of a spoon to open the skull to get the brains out. He'd also save the livers but I never knew anyone else to eat them.
A critical point is to be sure to rest the squirrel's tail on a solid surface such as a board or rock and put your heel right against the squirrel's butt, press down tightly and pull. If you don't have enough weight the tail will slip and pull the hair off the tail.
If there were several of us hunting and a lot of squirrels I'd skin and hand them to 2-3 others to gut them and I could easily stay ahead of them.
Squirrel brains!? This guy never let anything to waste!
I don't remember if he also ate the tongue and cheeks but squirrel heads were very popular with the old timers where I grew up. I assumed it was the same everywhere.
How about it FF team - how many of you eat the heads off your squirrels?
Deep East Texas "Sqrul' head stu"
I never did and do not plan to do it now.
We always kept the heads and ate the cheeks and brains.
I was really looking forward to the World Championship Squirrel Cooking Cook Off right here in Bentonville Arkansas later this month.
World Champion Squirrel Cook Off (https://www.facebook.com/squirrelcookoff/)
Just found out they cancelled this year due to covid.
To complement the squirrel, they would be serving some of the finest beer in the world from Ozark Brewery. The more you drink the better the squirrel tastes! :D
And don't you guys laugh, this is a really big deal!!!!!
I don't care about the beer but I hate to hear the squirrel cook-off got canceled. Do they have a special way to cook the heads?
I got invited to a Harvest Moon Festival in the village of Henoko in Okinawa in October 1986. The locals had a festival and I attended as a USMC rep from from Camp Schwab next door. Among the local dishes was raw sea urchin. They also had what looked like 5 liter bottles of Saki. I noticed most folks did not eat the sea urchin till the saki bottles were nearly empty. I did not drink so I never tried it.
You mentioned Saki, back in 1987 I was elected a Port commissioner for the Oregon International Port of Coos Bay and about 1989 a brand new Chip ship made her maiden voyage to the Roseburg Chip Terminal and we hosted a large catered oriental feast for the Captain, crew and local dignitaries, part of the ceremony was a cask/wooden keg of Saki had the top knocked open and we were given wooden cups (cedar) to dip out and toast the ship, I can tell you that you missed nothing, might as well drink gasoline . Saki was not and will never be my rink of choice just give me a Budwiser or Coors.
On that same tour we had a local contractor start on renovation of a closed down Mess Hall on Camp Schwab. They had a sort of ground breaking ceremony with a Shinto priest throwing salt on the ground, shaking a sash and praying for a safe work place (Which I thought was nice touch) then they had nice lunch for us. They had beer and Saki but we were still on duty and respectfully declined.
The owner of the company was 20-30 years older than us and owned the largest steel workings on the island. As we talked to me and our Facilities officer, a USN Lt., he mentioned he had been in the Navy during the war and everything got real quiet and the Lt asked "Which war?" He said he was about 15-16 y/o and was drafted into service at the end of WWII. He said at that time the war was winding down and he was shipped from island to island but every time before he arrived the Japanese were defeated and he was shipped to another site and never actually saw battle. It was odd to be be breaking bread with him knowing a generation or so earlier and we'd have been shooting at each other.
Cue up "Brothers in Arms." That would be a chilling thought.
Larry, that sounds like a good time. There is a wild game cook off at a gun club near us that Cowboy Bob attended annually. It wasn't about the game. ::)
Roxie,
Did they cook squirrel heads? :D
My Dad had a WW2 airplane calendar hanging on the office wall at our motel, a guy from the US came in to rent a room and looked at the calendar picture (P51 Mustang) and said "I use to do a lot of strafing in Germany with one of those" so they talked airplanes and USAF for a few minutes and dad gave him a key for room #14 on the far end of the building (thats was the end of the motel with the rooms with 1 queen size bed). About an hour later German customer comes in and asks for a room with one queen size bed, he looks at the calendar and says in a thick German accent " P51 Mustang! When I was a kid I would hide behind a big tree as fast as I could when I seen one of those coming!" He got a free up grade to a larger room at opposite end of the building.
I worked a project in Jeddah Saudi Arabia where we had both an RAF and a Luftwaffe pilot on our team. They would sometimes both be invited to a party and would argue over who had the best planes. I used to tell Andy, a Brit, the next time Gerry, a German, made that statement he should agree the Germans had the best planes and just say "If they'd had competent pilots they'd have won the war." That would be a pretty hard comeback to refute.
Did you know the brains of an animal can be used to tan the hide to allow retention of the hair on the hide? If you watch the series Mountain Men, Tom Oar often tans animal hides using a brain mixture. He cooks up the brains into thin mush and paints them on to the stretched, dried hide and it soaks in and the oils and other compounds preserve the hide.
Many years ago my son killed a small deer and saved the brains and the hide and he followed the instructions outlined in one of our Foxfire books. The hide is still on display in our kitchen and the hair remains firmly attached. A critical factor seems to be scraping all the excess fat and meat off the hide before applying the brain mixture.
I always heard it said an animal had enough brains to tan its hide.
Haven't watched mountain men in at least 5 years. My favourite was Tom, was another fella too I think marty. Interesting show for sure.
You probably know of this man and his venture into Alaska in the 50s, if not, I think you would enjoy. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBOBQm3bFI (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBOBQm3bFI)
HK,
Sorry but I can't open the link.
Did you know snakes are one of the most versatile animals on the planet? They swim, they climb trees, they can even glide from tall heights, and they access and survive underground in some of the tightest places imaginable. While they are generally considered warm climate animals they do have at least one viper species in Mongolia.
But remember those "snow snakes" :D
Did you know the King Cobra makes nest for its eggs? It makes repeated loops around leaf matter and such on the jungle floor to make a big pile that looks similar to an alligator nest in Fla. She lays her eggs in the middle of the nest and the decaying leaves generate heat to incubate the eggs. I have never seen or read of any other snake exhibiting similar behavior.
I did hoe up a dozen or so leathery eggs at home one time in N. Fla and, thinking they were turtle eggs or such, I put them in a large mouth gallon jar full of dirt and did have the foresight to put a cover on it of plastic wrap tied tightly. They were about an inch in diameter and about half again as long. I think it was along in September we were eating breakfast and looked over and there was a lot of movement in the jar. Turned out they were snakes about 7-8 inches long. I assume non-venomous but in any case my mom was not somewhat pleased. I think we took them to the HS and turned them over to our science teacher. I'm not sure he was thrilled if the truth be told.
Heey teach, want a jar of snakes?! No? Here you go!!! lol lol
Quote from: Tacotodd on September 04, 2021, 07:52:42 AM
But remember those "snow snakes" :D
Or those sneaky snakes. (RIP Tom T Hall)
Tom T. Hall - Sneaky Snake 1974 HQ - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EYPxlW-luw)
Did you know that while many snakes lay eggs which hatch in the environment there are some snakes which give birth to live young? Examples that have live births include rattlesnakes, boas, anacondas, and garter snakes.
The very poisonous Habu Viper, native to Okinawa, is nocturnal being mostly active at night. We had to be alert for them during our Marine Corp nighttime field activities when on Okinawa.
You seem to have a interest in snakes, have you ever watched "snakes on a plane"? lol With Samuel Jackson
Quote from: Ron Scott on September 05, 2021, 06:16:04 PM
The very poisonous Habu Viper, native to Okinawa, is nocturnal being mostly active at night. We had to be alert for them during our Marine Corp nighttime field activities when on Okinawa.
Anybody you knew of had any incidents with a viper? That would just be horrible! I've been fairly close to a rattler but at least
They warn you?
Yes, as A Marine Corpsman, had to deal with a few snakebites among the troops. We usually took them by ambulance to the Army Hospital in Naha where they had the anti-venom. The shortened Remington 870 12 gauge was my weapon of choice. ;) Though the 45cal 1911 was also used.
Saw the movie "Snakes on a Plane". Scary!
I bet the 12 gauge disappeared them lol . Buck shot?
Luckily I only need to worry about black bears, bobcats, eastern coyote(wolf hybrid) and there have been a few sightings of "eastern cougars" across the province in the last couple years, pretty sure they are common in New Brunswick so wouldn't be out of question for here.
Ron,
I just saw the trailers about "Snakes on a plane" but never saw the movie. I well remember all the tales about the Habus. The first weedeater I ever saw was used over there and we always called them Habu cutters as they were used to cut down the head high or taller grass which we called Habu grass. I think it was the Habus the Japanese put in their whiskey there too.
As I mentioned earlier about how to use a hammock a USM Lt. counterpart of mine at Parris Island had been bitten by a Habu in Oki while deployed/training there. Of course he had been bitten by a cottonmouth in LA and he was the one the rattler bit at Page Field. I know most people get bit by doing something dumb like trying to catch a snake or such but as far as I know he just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
As many as I have stepped on or beside and killed with cane poles and boat paddles it is a thousand wonders I have not been bitten. I started killing them, although truth be told most were actually harmless non-venomous varieties, with a BB gun when I was 5-6 year old if not younger. The closest I have come to getting bit is one bit through the top of my floppy rubber boot Labor Day night 1976 when I stepped on him while coon hunting in the Escambia River swamps but he did not reach my leg. Also I have shot a couple that were striking but fortunately I hit them before they hit me.
And I'm not fascinated by snakes, I just try to add a new topic every day and sometimes I hit a dry spell and have to milk a topic for all its worth before I think of something new. I welcome input from others to trigger moving along a different path so feel free to offer something else and we'll ride it for all its worth too. ;)
The thread doesn't seem dry of topic, you bringing up snakes inspired all the above and rons short story with snakes as well lol
Maybe with some climate change in the future, us in NS could be so blessed to have such snakes up here ;D :D... (sarcasm disclaimer)
I was resting in my kayak in an eddy in the New River gorge. It is miles of rough water, the last thing on my mind but here comes a raised head and he's swimming for all he's worth.
Catching an eddy in fast water is a little bit of a trick. Right behind a rock in the river the current swirls around and is heading upstream. If you dive in behind a rock and everything works right the current will spin you around and you're parked, tucked into a quiet place right behind the rock. Running the river is a series of leapfrogs from eddy to eddy as we would spot one another while playing down the rapids. To exit, you back up and drive hard upstream out of the eddy, turn into the current, it spins you downstream and off you go.
So I'm sitting there in my eddy minding my own business and this watersnake is swimming hard, cuts the eddy line, spins around in the current and draws up alongside. Looks over at me and if snakes could talk he would have been saying "Duuude, did you see that!". I hate a mouthy showoff so I gave him the eddy.
HK,
I'm depending on help from others here to keep this alive and current. We need input for you non-grit eating members from the glaciated north to educate us on the outdoor topics and animals from your area. I know almost nothing about pine martins, wolverines, griselle and polar bears or American porcupines as I have not spent much time up there so we need your input. We need input from our Kiwi and Aussie friends down under.
Which reminds me - I was working a project in Douala, Cameroon and on the same project we had an Adele Green from Scotland and a Chris Green from Australia and me. We were all eating sausages and brochettes at the German Seaman's Mission one Wednesday, our normal weekly routine, and someone commented on three Greens on the same project from different countries. I said "Yeah and we are all related. Our ancestors all came from the UK and one night they were all running from a posse and ran to the docks to catch the first ship out. My grandfather jumped on a departing ship with an upright, sober ships captain so of course he came to America. Chris' grandfather jumped on a ship with a drunk captain who had his map upside down so they ended up in Australia. Adele's grandfather missed the boat and had to stay and fight the posse and spend a little time at the crossbar hotel."
Well I'll tell you what I think about porcupines, don't like them at all, really just started disliking them though when I assumed responsibility of this woodlot 2 years ago and realized just how destructive they are, they will climb red spruces, pines(mostly young), oaks(my favourite tree, this means war) and chew the bark off every branch and the trunk and kill it. And there is SO many of them, because we don't have any other wildlife that will even mess with them, they are dumb as ever too, hardly notice you until you're right up close to them. I've decided everyone I see I need to kill it(if on my land) because I already have spruce beetle, weevil, and hurricanes that already decimated parts of my woodlot. I'm with cfarm now on the whole "if I see one I'll grab anything nearby to send it to happy mountain quickly". We need deer control too really, I like deer, but there are so many of them you can hardly drive anywhere without them trying to claim insurance by jumping out in front of you lol
The only things I know about porcupines is I saw a dead one by the side of the road on a trip to Bar Harbor Maine and he looked as big as a large beaver but he may have been bloated from laying in the sun several days. I've always speculated the guy who hit him may have had some serious tire issues shortly there-after if not on the spot. The other thing is I understand Eustace Conway of Mountain Man TV series fame was hiking the Appalachian trail as a young man and poorly prepared for his trip and had not eaten anything in several days and he spotted one and chased it down and killed it with a limb. He said he was so hungry he ate a pretty good meal off it raw before he got a fire started to cook it.
I saw lots of the African porcupine quills used for decorations and crafts throughout Africa and it was frequently on the menu in local restaurants listed as "Porky-pig". I don't remember it tasting much different than rabbit, groundhog or raccoon.
Porcupine quills also make good fishing floats when crappie or bluegill fishing. Put (tape or glue) a wire "eye" in one end, run your line through it and use a small rubber band (cutting a piece of rubber tubing in 1/4" cross sections works good for this) to hold the line tightly against the quill. You can easily slide the quill/float up and down the line to adjust to different depths. Use either no sinker or a tiny BB shot as the quill float sinks readily when a fish bites the bait.
Those quills don't usually effect tires, they are just hollow and snap fairly easy, if you ever get any or a dog gets any, before pulling out, clip the quill just leaving a good bit to tug on and this Let it collapse a bit and be easier to pull. They do get pretty big, they are strong too, I've chased on with a shovel and before I could get to him he was about chest height up a tree and I had the shovel on the top of his head pushing down with all my strength but couldn't knock him down, said whatever and went for a break, let him climb the tree real good and high, then I came back with a chainsaw and cut it down, felled it down a slope too. Thankfully tree was dead anyway
Growing up we had a little creek flowing through our property in a wooded area about 1/2 mile from the house, so of course this is where me and my friends always wanted to go explore and get into trouble. One time we cut a wild grape vine that was growing up into a tree on the creek bank so we could swing across the creek Tarzan style.
One friend was swinging across the creek when the vine gave way. Unbeknownst to us, there was a cottonmouth moccasin laying in a bush hanging over the water, and as luck would have it, the snake decided at that very opportune moment to drop off the bush into the water. At the same exact instant my friend hit the water in mid-swing from the failing vine.
We all saw it, including him, so he hit the water right on top of the snake, and like a jack-in-the-box, he popped out of the creek back onto the bank in one nanosecond. He had a cut on one of his toes and it was bleeding. He was sure that the snake had bitten him, that he would die, and his mother would whip him (in those days we still got whippings before there was "parental reform").
I told him not to worry because if he died, the whipping would not matter too much. He did not die and apparently one of the sharp rocks in the bottom of the creek was what bit him. We had several cottonmouth moccasin incidents at that creek.
Note to Self: The young members may not even know what a Jack-in-the-Box is :).
Danny,
Isn't the Jack-in-the-box that hamburger chain in Ala and Ga?
My son cut a big wild grapevine when we first moved here and he and his buddy's twisted it around and tied some fence wire into a loop on the bottom and they'd swing out over the draw below. At the peak of their swing they'd be 40' above the ground. A neighbor girl joined them one day and swung out too far and hit a maple tree at the end of her swing. She got scared and grabbed the tree then turned loose of the vine and slid down the tree getting pretty scratched up but otherwise unharmed.
I have mentioned before but while trekking with the WWF researchers in The Central African Republic tracking gorillas. I was watching the silverback high in a big tree and heard a loud thud and my wife started laughing. Evidently a 5-6 y/o juvenile gorilla had swung from tree to tree and done a George of the Jungle Act and whacked a big tree. When I looked he was hanging on the vine by one arm with a confused look on his face.
Anyway I am glad you showed the appropriate level of sympathy to your "snake-bit" friend. I like the idea of telling him the whipping would not hurt if he was dead.
I thought that The Jack in the Box eatery chain was on the West Coast.
Danny,
I checked and you are apparently correct. I guess I was thinking of the Jack's Hamburger chain which is common in Ala but they apparently are not found in Ga. I don't know if they are part of the same larger chain.
Back to snake bites - a buddy of mine said he was in a herpetology class and the professor reached in to pull out or put up a large cottonmouth and it struck and he yelled and pulled his hand out to find the the snake hung by one fang in his hand. The professor had a horrified expression on his face. From the back of the class his deep-throated graduate assistant gruffly but calmly asked "George, can I have yore truck?" It's nice to have true friends!
Quote from: WDH on September 06, 2021, 10:06:20 AM
I thought that The Jack in the Box eatery chain was on the West Coast.
TEXAS!
They were in the news some years back about tainted meat.
Quote from: Texas Ranger on September 06, 2021, 04:29:59 PM
Quote from: WDH on September 06, 2021, 10:06:20 AM
I thought that The Jack in the Box eatery chain was on the West Coast.
TEXAS!
They are everywhere out here! (Kalifornia)
About Porcupines, fishers regularly kill and eat them. Fishers, in recent years, have been expanding their range into more populated areas. I shot a porky once and deboned the meat, took it to a deer processor and had him make summer sausage with it. The guys at our local trappers club ate it; nobody ever accused them of being finicky. My wife and I went camping in the Adirondacks a few years back. Two porcupines would come out of the woods every evening, one was the typical gray/black and the other was blonde. They would come out onto a mowed area above the leach field for a nearby restroom building and selectively eat the leaves off Common Plantain plants. So, nobody told them that that was an anthropomorphic (man-made) habitat (bad) or that Common Plantain is a non-native plant (very bad). The porkies would let you get within 10-12 feet of them before they would move away.
Never kick a porcupine with rubber boots on. It'll ruin a good pair of boots plus maybe a doctor bill. ;)
in 1973 I was told by a lifelong rancher that at one time killing Porkys in Wyoming was illegal except for survival purposes. They were deemed as a food source that someone could kill with a stick if they needed food to survive.
Yes, just hit them on the nose. The exercise was part of our marine corps survival training.
KEC,
I never see fishers on any of the outdoor shows and such. Aren't they about the size of an otter or such and another member of the weasel family? How does he kill a porcupine? Looks to me like that would take some skill. What is his normal prey?
I saw on one of the Mountain Men shows where Tom Oar shot a porcupine and evidently made quite a haul off the quills and such using them for decorating his authentic primitive clothes and crafts he and his wife make and sell. I'm always impressed the way they are supposedly able to take a raw fur and make clothes or a wall-hanging out of it that sells for 10-20 times what the fur buyer would have paid for it. I suspect that is pretty highly specialized market but they are out there if you have the right product and can find them.
I guess it is the same thing many of our members have done converting trees to log to lumber to specialty furniture or crafts and really adding significant value along the way.
"Fishers have quick reflexes and a low-slung body—all the makings of a porcupine killer. First, a fisher will circle the animal, nimbly dodging lashes of the heavily quilled tail. Then it will dart in to bite the porcupine's unquilled face, attacking repeatedly until subdued."
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 06, 2021, 07:40:55 PM
KEC,
I never see fishers on any of the outdoor shows and such. Aren't they about the size of an otter or such and another member of the weasel family? .......
And you likely never will. :D Fishers are mean nasty and effective predators. They are also extremely stealthy and hunt mostly at night. They have pretty big eyes and good vision. You don't want to tangle with one, they aren't afraid of anything. I have only seen one in the woods in 6 decades. I was sitting on a ground deer stand and he never saw me. He moved like a ghost I watched him open up a rotten stump, then move on, or rather, vaporize. He never made a sound. They can also make some gosh awful noises when challenged it will run a shiver of cold sweat down your spine. I did catch one on the trail cam a few years ago just slinking through an area like a ghost in the middle of the night.
The only way you might see one on TV is hanging from a victor trap.
Truth be told, I have never watched a fisher kill anything, but I'd pay a few dollars to watch one kill a porky. They reportedly kill a lot of squirrels and some say they can catch a Red Squirrel up in a tree. Like most predators they are opportunists. The males are much bigger than females, roughly the size of a housecat, males like a very big cat. I've seen them a fair number of times in the Adirondacks. Your first thought is housecat, then you see the loping gait of a weasel. Every one that saw me pulled a fast dissapearing act. At a fur sale in the early 1980's some fisher were sold. Males went for around $ 160.00 and females (which have silkier fur) went for $ 320.00. Now they are a fraction of that. Oh, they say when a fisher kills a porky, they get it on its' back and open up the belly where there are no quills and eat it, leaving the hide lying there quills down. I did see one that a trapper had just removed from a trap and it had quills in its' face. And they eat housecats.
We stocked Fishers on the Ottawa National Forest in Michigan's Upper Peninsula during the mid 1960's to protect the high quality northern hardwoods from excessive porcupine damage. They are still regularly seen on the Ottawa National Forest.
I've had them run into my deer blind several times while deer hunting in the western U.P. and have seen them dispose of a porcupine.
Ron, I bet that you wanted to come unglued when it came in the blind with you! That had to be a wild hunt (pun intended)
Yes, especially when it ran right across my lap. ;)
I'm not sure if fishers are common here, maybe I oughta see if I can let some loose on my land lol
Did you know many plants spread their seed on the coats of animals? The primary examples that come to mind are beggar tick/lice we had all over the southern USA (and probably some species up here) and cockleburs with which I do a running battle up here. The tiny beggar tick is great feed for quail and other birds but is a royal pain to remove from a wool shirt. When you get a cocklebur in a horse's tail or mane you might as well figure on just cutting the hair around it. I am finding the green ones are heavily browsed by my deer around here. Similarly prickly pear cactus is spread by animals but in that case the animal steps in it and the thorns stick in them and the pad breaks off and the animal transports it some distance, gets free of it elsewhere and the broken pads sprouts roots and becomes a new plant.
All I gotta do is a see a motherwort plant and seeds will be stuck all over my pants. Hate that ($&!&% weed.
I think a Fisher is nothing more than a scaled-down Wolverine!
Don't mess with either one unless you're prepared for the fight!
I wonder where they got the name "fisher"? They aren't semi-aqautic or anything like an otter are they. We don't have them in WV or in any points south where I have lived.
I guess they are plentiful in Maine. If Maine has them they could thrive here too as similar climates
How the fisher got its name | Natural History (https://retrieverman.net/2009/04/06/how-the-fisher-got-its-name/#:~:text=The%20French%20word%20for%20a%20polec)
Ron,
Sounds confusing and incorrect. I move we rename them "Jumbo Martens" for clarity and accuracy. What do you think?
All,
For today's post - did you know WV is supposed to own the stats for the highest deer/vehicle accident ratio in the USA? I nearly added to these stats just at dark tonight on the way home when 3 of them decided my lane was a handy place to stop and have a conversation. Squealing brakes, blaring horn and flashing tails and they/I barely survived the encounter. smiley_sweat_drop smiley_sweat_drop smiley_sweat_drop
I have caught and released several fisher before we had a season on them.
Hard but not inposible to release them from a foothold trap. Held them down with a branch. Easy to trap. When we got a season i used body grip traps in a cuby.
Did you know the crescent moon on an old style outhouse indicated it was a women's outhouse? Men evidently had a sun on their outhouses. Maybe I have led a sheltered life but until today I had never heard that.
No, and this is shocking news. Do you have any corroborating evidence to support this allegation? Can you show evidence of a 'sun' on an outhouse? I have never seen one.
Shocking I say. Where is your proof?! :D ;D
Why Do Outhouses Have a Crescent Moon on the Door? (https://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2020/01/why-do-outhouses-have-a-crescent-moon-on-the-door/#:~:text=Supposedly%20before%20the%20adoption%20of%20the%20more%20familiar,the%20moon%20and%20men%20supposedly%20with%20the%20sun).
I did not say I had ever seen a sun on an outhouse just that the crescent moon meant they were designated for women. I suspect in the past there were many suns on outhouses and over the years the 'gentler sex' has sneaked in and replaced them with moon cut-outs. I could be wrong but it seems like a viable explanation. Also the two-holer probably came from women users since it is well documented fact women cannot go to the bathroom in public areas by themselves and always go in pairs. Now - put that in your pipe and smoke it. ;)
If I ever find an outhouse with a sun I will be sure to leave the lid up just for spite!
Well I did read that entire article and the writer himself is dubious about this 'sun thing'. I had never heard of such a thing before, but I suppose anything is possible. If you ever see one, take a photo.
I gotta get down to the mill.....
Out in the backwoods where a outhouse would be in use a pooper is a pooper, who has the time to make 2 of those things? Plus if you had so many people going to it that you figured you needed to label genders maybe you actually need a septic at this point lol
The moon is matriarchal and the sun is patriarchal. Back in ancient times the moon was called the Mother.
Danny,
I think you are making that up. :P I bet you never heard the outhouses had symbols on them to denote gender either. Down in south GA your bunch were probably like mine and stepped behind a clump of palmettos and grabbed a handful of Spanish moss (full of chiggers and seed ticks) for hiney wipe. You know the ancient Romans just peed in the viaducts or against a wall.
HK,
I won't disagree with your separated poopers.
BTW- Did you know the man who invented or at least marketed flush toilets was Thomas Crapper hence the name we hear today.
Why the Toilet is Commonly Known as “The Crapper” (todayifoundout.com) (http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2011/05/why-the-toilet-is-commonly-known-as-the-crapper/)
I don't think Crapper invented the toilet but made much better with several patented improvements.
The more modern vortex flushing toilet was invented in Saint John New Brunswick in 1907 by Thomas Stewart.
Another invention from eastern Canada is the screw propeller, it was invented by John Patch who lived about 5 miles from where I live just south of the town of Yarmouth Nova Scotia. Credit for the invention is often given to John Ericsson because he was able to get a patent in England but it was 4 years after Patch made his first propeller.
Edit to add link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Patch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Patch)
Did you know king cobras can make a moaning growl sort of like a dog? Rather than hissing like many other snakes
HK,
I think I had heard somewhere they can sort of growl. I bet that is the same sound both of us heard about just described from different witnesses. It is definitely an unusual trait for a snake. Thanks for posting that tidbit.
Do they growl as a warning or as a sign of fear?
Quote from: Tacotodd on September 11, 2021, 04:39:21 AM
Do they growl as a warning or as a sign of fear?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4U7j1TeHwM (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4U7j1TeHwM)
Here is one growling. Quite scary
I did not make up the part about the moon being female and the sun being male.
Go mingh assigh! (Japanese for "Sorry about that" or as close as I remember.) Okay, I never doubted that (Well maybe just a little bit :D) but did you know the crescent indicated it was a female toilet and wonder why there was no sunburst for the men? I honestly had never heard that till this week and bet most readers here had not.
I know about the pointers and setters in fancy restyrants (I always have trouble spelling that) cafes.
I did not have the faintest idea that the moon crescent indicated a girl outhouse, but now that you mention it, it makes perfect sense.
I did not know you were even alive back in ancient times, but now that makes sense. :)
I am more ancient than you.
:D :D :D 8)
Did you know that when you go to mount a camel you first make the camel sit down and it is sitting on his legs and belly sort of like a sphynx you get on and he first gets up with his back legs then he rises in the front. When you get off you do everything in reverse and the camel kneels down in front then lowers his back legs and you get off. Of course you better have a good grip so you don't slide off in the process. It is easier on an Asian camel than on an African camel because on the Asian camel you are sitting between the 2 humps and can hold on to the front one. My wife got on one in northern Mongolia and the herders nearly died laughing at her screaming as the camel got up and down. I got pictures of her bear hugging the front hump and yelling.
Did you know the hump on a camel is a good indicator of hydration? A plump, fully erect/upright hump (two humps on Asian Camels) is a sign the camel is well watered. The hump is generally accepted to be a reservoir of fluid for camels to draw down on when they encounter periods of reduced water access. The hump(s) on a poorly hydrated camel will flop over to the side.
One of the days I'll tell the joke about "bricking" a camel but maybe this is not the time and place for it.
Bricking+happy mountain? :D :D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 12, 2021, 06:00:12 PM
Did you know the hump on a camel is a good indicator of hydration? A plump, fully erect/upright hump (two humps on Asian Camels) is a sign the camel is well watered. The hump is generally accepted to be a reservoir of fluid for camels to draw down on when they encounter periods of reduced water access. The hump(s) on a poorly hydrated camel will flop over to the side.
One of the days I'll tell the joke about "bricking" a camel but maybe this is not the time and place for it.
I've heard it, might not wanna post it here! :P
:D :D
Okay, I won't post that or running out of chain with the bear trap joke either.
I may be a little intermittent (late?) at posting or replying for the next week due to my other scheduling issues. Stay safe and healthy. Don't stick your hand in any badger holes this week.
Did you know most birds defecate as they fly off any roost? This is a natural trait intended to lighten the load for flying. It is also a good reason not to startle large flocks of nearby birds into flight especially if you are under their roost tree or when you have any reason to believe you may be in their initial flight path. ::) It might be a good trick to pull on your hunting or fishing buddy if he happens to be near a flock you can scare to fly out over him. :D
That's right Howard!
Quite a few years back I surprised a flock of roosted turkeys early one morning, they all flew and so did the crap, I think they all had to go, and I was lucky, they went the other way!
I was close enough that I could hear the stuff hitting the leaf covered ground!
So all these years I've been eating the constipated one, low and slow :-\
coming in by canoe after dark while trapping the geese cause quite a few splats in the water around me as they fly over
Did you know standard turkey hunting practices for old timers used to be to separate the flock then call them back together? If an old timer could kill the old hen he'd sit there and call in and shoot every single young one. If you've ever scattered them at night as Chuck describes, you can come back at daylight and hear them all clucking and yelping and putting to get back together. Turkeys are very social birds and call to each other constantly to keep the flock together.
A good fall hunting tactic.
Did you know if the residents of Colorado (at least those from the Denver to Ft Collins area) ever visit West Virginia, they will never be happy living in CO again? Sorry guys but once you CO residents see our green, well watered state with real mountains instead of distant canyons and scraggly pine trees you will never be happy in the flat, parched land we have seen the last few days. Actually, some of the area up around Estes National Park is pretty and look like a nice short term vacation spot but not a long term residence area.
My sawmill would starve to death out here.
Guess you don't know CO. :D :D
But there are those in West "by God" Virginia that like WV, and can't help it. ;)
great now we have an east west thing, in addition to the north south grits controversy. :snowball: :)
He likes his mountains small and green.
Doc,
Sorry about that. If the truth hurts sometimes you just have to accept it. My wife has been looking for some exciting topography ever since we landed and all it seems we saw till we went up to Estes was flat, brown, wilted corn crops with big irrigation systems running overhead.
Our niece who is getting married today said people here are not even allowed to have a rain barrel because I guess that prevents the rainwater from reaching the aquifer and getting shared by everyone.
And I have not been able to get grits any place we ate breakfast. No wonder they approved cannabis use out here. :D
Danny,
The mountains we saw yesterday were nice but they were often shear, bare rock with a few scattered, sickly looking, pine trees fighting for their livelihood. The mountains were all brown with what looked like dead or dying brush.
There are some neat things out here and the mule deer doe I saw in the people's yard was a very big, very healthy looking deer and looked a lot bigger than our whitetails. My wife was impressed just to see a prairie dog. That's sad! No telling what these folks would do if they actually saw a big fat woodchuck sitting up beside the road or out in a meadow.
I am glad there are people here who like this area or we would be so overrun with people we would be as crowded as NYC. The guy sitting beside me on the plane had on a Ga Bulldogs hat and was coming out to hunt elk with a bow. He likes to hunt here but then he comes back east to live. My local barber is out here this week elk or mule deer hunting but he is returning to WV after.
At least he wore a nice cap.
Did you know Elk hunters often get trampled by their prey? I knew moose often attacked people especially during the rut or cows (How come they aren't does since moose are in the deer family?) with calves (Ditto calves vs fawns?) when people got too close to them. Evidently it is not uncommon for an elk hunter to cow call a bull elk and it will attack him in the brush especially during bow season when they call them in close.
I knew the big bull elks in Yellowstone in the built up areas of the park sometimes had a ranger with them to protect the tourists who would stupidly walk up for a selfie and find themselves flying, gored and trampled. I guess they all wanted Darwin awards.
Quote from: WDH on September 16, 2021, 09:35:49 AMAt least he wore a nice cap.
Danny,
I congratulated him on Ga's recent win over Clemson only to find his son beside him was a Clemson grad/fan. The head stewardess (Flight attendant?) was a UA fan from Tuscaloosa (Armpit of the south) and had already chastised my wife for wearing her AU sweatshirt on the plane and came back to mediate. She said none of us were getting any drink service on her flight. The lady sitting next to us by the window popped up immediately with "I'm not with them." It was a little unruly at first but we all had a good time and left as new friends.
You should know that a LOT of people from Colorado have migrated there from the other left coast state that starts with a C. The natives are now moving to other mountain states to get out. :)
yes eastern Colorado looks just like Western Kansas. everyone complains about Kansas, so thanks for pointing that out about Co. We have the same mule deer out west. i remember when our friends the Skeels moved to Co, we vacationed there every summer for 8 years. the mountains are mesmerizing, and I would always shoot a whole roll of pictures out the car window on my Kodak instamatic camera, only to realize all the picture looked the same after developed. most of the topography is uninhabitable, but a nice change if you live in neighboring flatter states. the roads follow the rivers, and the towns along the roads unless there is a bit of a meadow. my best friend growing up, met his wife at winter park. I told him how cool it must be living there, and he reminded me they had to plug in cars, and spend half an hour digging out and cleaning the car to go to work every morning. It is fun to visit. Kenny Skeels is who I built houses with growing up, and a big reason you guys are stuck with me on the forum. :snowball: :)
I had to hit the brakes and horn to keep from hitting 2 mule deer bucks on the way home from the wedding tonight. Sort of made me homesick for WV just having to dodge them.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 16, 2021, 11:24:31 PM
I had to hit the brakes and horn to keep from hitting 2 mule deer bucks on the way home from the wedding tonight. Sort of made me homesick for WV just having to dodge them.
How nice of them to make you feel right at home! :) ;D
Did you know the typical food supply for most animals in the Fall and Winter is called Mast? It is a mixture of seeds, nuts and berries from the local plants and trees that the wildlife eats. You will hear hunters and wildlife personnel refer to the food source as mast and say things like "There is going to be a very poor mast crop this year which mean the deer will have a hard time this winter." Or they might say "The acorns are plentiful this year which will help compensate for a poor beech mast crop."
I knew that.
did you know i can jump about 4 feet high when hissed at by a pair of angry otters in my creek culvert?
Mike,
I can relate to that having encountered similar incidents with snakes and other wild animals. Even many harmless wild animals will cause you to hurt yourself when unexpectedly encountered. I am glad no FF members or otters were injured in the making of this memory.
we have had some wind and lots of leaves in the skimmers of the pool. I used to push my son to reach in and just grab stuff, when younger as he would ant to use tongs or some tool due to unknown bugs ect. I was cleaning yesterday and the first handful was great and muscle memory had me going back to the skimmer, and there was a dead large mouse/small pack rat. startled me a bit, so I had to tell my 20 y/o son that. :o :D :)
my son would almost fall and hurt himself if a mud dobber flew within 4 feet of him. he said he was being attacked.
I remember walking along some old gravel pits fishing in N Fla and we had tall weeds. I was watching carefully for big cottonmouths which were common in the area and suddenly a huge bullfrog croaked loudly and jumped a couple feet high clearing the weeds and making big splash in the pond. He was stretched out a couple feet long and nearly stopped my heart in the process.
I've had harmless, non-poisonous snakes rest their tail on a dry leaf and nervously twitch it in the grass sounding just like a big old rattlesnake. That will elevate your heart rate real quick too.
Other than the Tennessee otters that hiss at Mike, did you know otters are very playful and love to find a muddy bank and slide on their bellies into the water? The will climb a steep bank, slide and repeat many times. They will also chirp like birds or ducks or such and many times I'd hear them and mistake them for birds.
A surveyor I know was down in the swamp fox's country doing property lines. Looking through the transit, his rod man all of a sudden goes vertically out of view. He swings the scope down and then back up, water moccasin and the running aftermath of some championship standing pole vaulting :D. He was explaining that is why surveyors know trig in their heads, turn and hit the next pin and come back to that pin later. Some of those surveys were quite old. He described one deed, it read something like "One and one half cigars on horseback north".
While cooling our heels yesterday we decided to take down the old eyesore block wellhouse. It was kind of "waspy" around. We got that knocked down to a tolerable level and got the block cleaned up. Then we needed to jackhammer the slab. The stragglers were buzzing around all day but never stung. They would get friendly while we were running the jackhammer, finally get to be too many friends around, so stop, ease back for the spray can and you would be alone, fire back up and friends would come back again to see what we were up to ::).
And I can't resist. Later in the afternoon we wandered around to the sideyard where there was a chunk of concrete about a yard square. It had not budged when I played with it a little before. When we had finally rolled it out and hammered it apart it was about 2' thick and full of bed frames, bolts, rods, just about any piece of spent hardware they could throw in there. My partner asked "What was this for?" I said "Do you remember the 10' satellite dishes?" He says "Oh, the state flower of West Virginia :D"
I still have the pole from a 10' satellite antenna in my front yard. The Direct TV antenna is on it now. I live ¼ mile off two lane blacktop, no neighbors to complain.
Quote from: doc henderson on September 18, 2021, 06:47:59 AM
my son would almost fall and hurt himself if a mud dobber flew within 4 feet of him. he said he was being attacked.
thats my wife. she will leave a wife shaped hole through the side of a house if a bee crawls across a table. screen doors? no chance, she will tackle that door to escape the common honey bee.
if theres just one mosquito 15 feet away she is being eaten up.
yes dear.
we can be in the middle of a blowout fight and she is as stubborn as they get. if a bee gets into the house she will instantly swallow her pride, call me and beg me to take care of it.
i should stock more bees honestly.
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I haven't gotten stung this year which is really surprising considering I've taken out nearly 15 acres of rotten wood over the summer, which is where Youd typically find nests, no horse/deer fly bites either, 1 tick bite.
Did you know elephants have 3 sets of molars they use to grind their food which is very large, tough forage? As they mature and a set wears out the next set slides down and replaces the previous set of molars. Finally, if they ;live that long, the third set of molars wears out and they can only eat soft foods and ultimately they starve to death.
I was reminded of the elephant's teeth because we stopped at a National Park near Florisant CO on our way to Cripple Creek and they had a fossilized Mastodon tooth on display they had found in the park. It was about the size of a brick looked just like elephants teeth I had seen in other places.
Howard, did you go south out of Cripple Creek down to Cannon City. Nice drive with some fun tunnels. I've
seen tour buses go through them. About .5 MPH. Very tight.
Royal Gorge is a neat place also.
David
No, we went north on 67 then east on 24 to Manitou and caught the Cog railway to the top of Pikes Peak then returned to the outskirts of Centennial to be closer to the airport. We had a very good Indian meal then back to the hotel for very little sleep and left early this morning and landed in WV about 7:30 pm with all bags intact. I'll write up something in the General Board about our trip.
Did you know the African grey hornbill builds a best in a hollow tree, lays 2-4 eggs and the female seals herself in to incubate the eggs leaving only a small slot the male uses to feed her. When the chicks hatch the male continues to feed them until they outgrow the nest and the female removes the wall, comes out and rebuilds it and helps raise the young till they are mature enough to leave and fend for themselves.
All summer long there were squirrels and cottontails everywhere. Now the rabbits are gone and most of the squirrels. This happens every year, what is going on?
OSF,
I am speculating here but of course a lot of the young cottontails and squirrels did not survive predators during the early days which is natural. Changing season mean changes in the food supply and no doubt the squirrels and rabbits are moving to other food sources and are probably less visible in these new locations. Instead of hanging out in and around the grassy meadows and places where we can easily see them they are back in timber eating acorns and beech mast and the squirrels are stocking up on them for their winter feed.
Did you know that whitetail deer have a reddish coat which is much more readily visible during the Spring and Summer while they turn much darker and are harder to see in the Fall and Winter when the leaves are off the trees and bushes. They blend in with the winter colors much better than they do with the summer colors.
Did you know that grey (Cat) squirrels (and probably most other types of squirrels) frantically bury whatever mast is in season for future needs? Squirrels will scurry around mast trees and grab an acorn, muscadine grape, beech nut, hickory nut, etc and run to a site, frantically dig a hole a couple of inches deep, drop the seed/nut/berry in the hole, cover it and repeat. I used to think they buried them in a common area but I dumped a couple gallons of wormy Chinese chestnuts behind my house in Quantico Va when I was stationed there and watched a particular squirrel grab a chestnut, run 6' and bury it then return, grab another and run 75 yards away and bury it. I quickly realized he had no rhyme or reason where he buried them. Since many of these squirrels will be caught by predators or die from other causes probably most of what they planted will be left in ground thereby planting future mast trees, vines and plants for other generations of squirrels. Squirrels can smell the nut/seed and they only bury healthy/viable ones.
Dang tree rats. The red ones are just annoying as ever lol
They are like a chihuahua, tiny, lots of bark. One of those things will sit on a branch just above you, non stop chirping, stomping its feet.
I'm not real fond of Red Squirrels either. They eat songbird nestlings and build nests in my Screech-owl boxes and raid birdseed. On the other hand, they do well in conifer forests and are an important food source for hawks, owls, marten and fishers. I find it interesting that in some place in Colorado there are lots of conifers, but no Red Squirrels. Crossbill birds, which, like Red Squirrels eat seeds from cones do better without Red Squirrels to compete with. With no Red Squirrels, the conifers produce softer cones that crossbills can open easier to get the seeds. Howard, do you know that ?
KEC,
I know there are red squirrels in the conifers in Colorado because I discussed it with the park rangers out there. The red squirrels and some flying squirrels and chipmunks were the ones we discussed as a comparison with what we have on the east coast. I would not be surprised if there are areas with conifers and no red squirrels just like I bet there are pockets of oaks and beeches on the east coast with no squirrels. At some point squirrels may migrate in or otherwise be stocked to fill any appropriate niche that may currently be vacant. That's pretty much nature at work with a little interference from man.
I was not aware of the hard vs soft cone issue.
Did you know that coyotes and wolves can interbreed with domestic dogs. Apparently their offspring can also interbreed with other canines, i.e. they are not sterile hybrids. I assume that means coyotes and wolves can interbreed although I have never seen or read of such cases. In most cases they are all three mortal enemies and will attack or run from each other.
My daughter had a little girl as a patient who was telling her about a wild puppy they found and adopted but it would not bark like the other dogs. They took it to their local NC vet for shots and the vet said he normally would not treat it but as a personal favor he would. When they asked why he told them it was a coyote pup. Evidently it raised with the other pets they had and when grown it bred with one of their dogs and produced a litter of crossbreeds.
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Have you ever seen a glaciated snake ? Can't let the topic drift too far from snakes lol
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 24, 2021, 09:32:44 AM
Did you know that coyotes and wolves can interbreed with domestic dogs. Apparently their offspring can also interbreed with other canines, i.e. they are not sterile hybrids. I assume that means coyotes and wolves can interbreed although I have never seen or read of such cases. In most cases they are all three mortal enemies and will attack or run from each other.
My daughter had a little girl as a patient who was telling her about a wild puppy they found and adopted but it would not bark like the other dogs. They took it to their local NC vet for shots and the vet said he normally would not treat it but as a personal favor he would. When they asked why he told them it was a coyote pup. Evidently it raised with the other pets they had and when grown it bred with one of their dogs and produced a litter of crossbreeds.
Our coyotes have interbred with wolves previously, making our "eastern coyote" a bit larger than the ones you non glaciated folk have
That is true but our snakes are a tad bit larger and a tad bit more ill tempered. They don't cotton to being held much, either.
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This was a small one(garter), I read that they can live up to 5 years(in captivity). I seen one about 3 foot yesterday on my trail which was a ring headed snake, he was much more spry!
HK,
I wonder what the offspring of a wolf and coyote sound like? I wonder if they howl like a wolf, coyote or something totally different. I have heard of a mule braying but never knew one to whinny like a horse. Mine used to do a half bray. He would Hee but would never Haw.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 24, 2021, 01:14:31 PM
HK,
I wonder what the offspring of a wolf and coyote sound like? I wonder if they howl like a wolf, coyote or something totally different. I have heard of a mule braying but never knew one to whinny like a horse. Mine used to do a half bray. He would Hee but would never Haw.
I'm not sure how I'm relation they sound to wolves, but they do howl, mostly during the night, but sometimes you will hear a ambulance siren from off the highway and that will set them off(they think it's another pack), and they will howl until the sirens stop
Here is one that was next to my house calling others, they make all kinds of whiney/yelp sounds when they meet up.
Eastern Coyote - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3MrcUUzKgo)
Quote from: Hilltop366 on September 24, 2021, 05:24:02 PM
Here is one that was next to my house calling others, they make all kinds of whiney/yelp sounds when they meet up.
Eastern Coyote - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3MrcUUzKgo)
Yep. That's how they sound. Puts chill down your bones when your walking way out in the woods in evening and hear that close by ;D
Mostly that's what I hear, the yipping and yapping and whining, though sometimes they bark as well. I think that many people hear them barking and mistakenly think that they're hearing dogs. I was once trying to call in coyotes and one got in quite close and busted me. I was late winter, we'd had deep snow and the coyotes were very hungry. That coyote ran across a path in front of me before I could shoot and ran into some thick cover and then proceeded to bark at me for several minutes. I think he was very frustrated at me for being there and really wanted whatever was sounding like an animal in distress. I also think that if his barking could be translated into words it would not be allowed on this forum. Canis Latrans means barking dog.
My Son found a baby crow this spring & gave it to his neighbor that raised it with his chickens & doves. Now it'll fly over to my Sons & sit up in a tree & make sounds like a chicken or a dove. I told him he should get a video of it,cause i'v never heard of that before. I wouldn't of believed it if I didn't see it.
Quote from: Logger RK on September 24, 2021, 10:49:54 PM
My Son found a baby crow this spring & gave it to his neighbor that raised it with his chickens & doves. Now it'll fly over to my Sons & sit up in a tree & make sounds like a chicken or a dove. I told him he should get a video of it,cause i'v never heard of that before. I wouldn't of believed it if I didn't see it.
He might have a raven, ravens make a all sorts of calls and can learn new ones. Have you ever been way out in the woods and all the sudden it sounds like you heard a old lady in distress yell "AAaaaHHHHHH!!!!"? Raven lol . Another 2 calls I notice often from them is a water drop sound and some kind of clicking sound, but this isn't limited to just those, once in awhile you will hear a weird sound from them
Did you know that baby possums are basically born as preemy babies? They are born as tiny hairless critters after a very short gestation period and crawl around the mother's pouch until they find a nipple and latch on to it then they remain there nursing as they mature until they are old enough to leave the pouch and fend for themselves. It is a common sight to see an overloaded mother possum walking around with the babies hanging on to her back and sides until they actually let go of her. I assume she stops to feed and the babies get off, feed and get back on for several weeks.
Did you know they like selfies?
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The little ones are so ugly they are cute - but they grow out of it. I hear they are a tick eating machine.
Is that your pet possum or just a cat/dog food thief?
The last one we were raising was named Eatmore. He went to Happy Mountain when Brenda Washer sat on him while our neighbors were possum sitting for us for a long weekend. It was a sad day for all.
He's considered a welcome addition to the cat food crowd on the back deck. I put out things like apple cores in his half of the dish.
They don't carry rabies and they are voracious tick eaters. I didn't know he was out there until I saw my pink impatience plants being eaten down the row like you'd eat corn on the cob. The light pink ones are the only ones he bothered. I only plant begonias in the shade areas now.
It's a common trait for marsupials to give birth to very small babies, then nurse them in a pouch. Kangaroos / wombats etc are all the same. We have the related Australian possums here. They are similar sized, but much nicer fur, even their tails are furry, but with a strip of skin underneath for grip when climbing.
The Australian possums are an introduced pest here, with no predators they can multiply out of control, strip the trees of leaves, and eat the eggs and chicks of native birds, not to mention what they will do to your garden and fruit trees. So it's open season on them with any means available. It's a pity as they are actually quite a cute critter, and can even be kept as pets. In their native Australia they are a fully protected native species.
Did you know the opposum is the only native marsupial in North and, I understand, South America? Australia and New Zealand have many species and all mammals there, with the exception of the Dingo (which may have been introduced from elsewhere) were marsupials vs placental mammals. I know rabbits and mice have been introduced and have caused havoc on the continent. Domestic animals such as sheep, goats, pigs, camels, horses and cattle have been introduced with various damages associated. I know goats and pigs are causing problems. The camel seems to have adapted well with less damages I am aware of.
I wonder what is the advantage of an early birth and pouch raised?
that is a good question, and I assume it is to have multiples and get them out of the uterus. I will see if I can find the teleologic reason.
Are Marsupials Mammals? - WorldAtlas (https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-are-marsupials-are-marsupials-mammals.html)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 26, 2021, 07:29:35 AMAustralia and New Zealand have many species and all mammals there, with the exception of the Dingo (which may have been introduced from elsewhere) were marsupials vs placental mammals.
Although we now have possums and wallabies naturalised, the only native mammals from NZ are 2 species of small bat, and some seals. All other mammals have been introduced by humans in the last ~800 years. I don't think there are even any fossil remains of mammals here. One of the reasons that NZ forests are quite different from any other place (no browsing mammals, and seeds couldn't spread via rodents etc)
Aussie is also home to the monotremes, which are mammals that lay eggs. The platypus and echidna are the best known ones.
Did you know that other than the Spring season when the gobblers are hanging out with the hens during breeding season the rest of the year the males mostly hang out in bachelor groups while the hens and young stay together. The young jakes may hang out with the hens for the first year then they will split off and join the other older gobblers. The groups may merge or run together for brief periods when they run into each other at prime feeding locations such as cutover grain fields or such.
I have 8 Jake's and a hen that have been coming in all summer. Today they got a bit confused and were strutting, gobbling and fighting like it was March. Really dumb acting until I feed the chickens then they will come running to within 6 feet of me talking or I should say demanding their feed.
down by the sawmill area yesterday.
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You gonna have them over for Thanks giving? ;D
we have a neighbor thread about these guys and some wild cats. we would be shunned but it is joked about. they are more like family! :)
Did you know woodchuck hide was a preferred skin for drum heads by many of the eastern Indian tribes? It was supposed to be a very tough hide and lasted better than most other hides.
If you are a bow hunter and spending time in the woods this time of year and looking for something to entertain yourself while waiting in your tree stand did you know you can take a pocket full of pebbles along and get even with all the squirrels and chipmunks who drive you crazy scurrying around in the dry leaves? It is great fun. If you are hunting around oaks or hickories or such that are dropping acorns or nuts you may have noticed every time an acorn falls all the squirrels and chipmunks in the area rush over to grab it before the next tree rat finds it. You can take a pebble and from your elevated position you can easily flip it 20-30 feet to your left into the dry leaves and watch the critters rush over and look for it. Then take another pebble and flip it 20-30 feet to your right and watch them rush over. Back and forth, back and forth until you run out of pebbles. You can really run them ragged. :D
no wonder you never get a deer... :D :D :D.
Doc,
If you've ever sat there all day and had the squirrels and chipmunks drive you crazy rustling the leaves behind you and you just knowing it is a big buck only to find after half and hour it is only Alvin and Simon stirring the leaves then when you do finally decide that chipmunks and squirrels is all it is and move and hear a big 6-8 point snort right behind you and run off you will think it is justice to them.
In all honesty some of the best times and memories I have sitting in the woods, I never shot at anything. (And some of the worst was when I did kill something and had to drag it out and clean it in freezing cold weather and such.)
Besides - who's to say a deer won't come to a pebble decoy too!
Oh - I forgot. You don't have trees in Kansas tall enough to use a tree stand anyway.
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Did you know salamanders only come above ground to mate and after a heavy rain? Found this spotted salamander(that's the name) this morning! He seemed lifeless then he sat in my warm palm for a few minutes and he was off to the races. You don't see these ones often.
Do NOT perform a burial at sea! They hibernate! My tragic tale from Tree of the day thread:
Speaking of salamanders, when I was in the second grade, I found a salamander in the basement of the house in which we lived. I wanted to keep it, and against my parents objections I consulted my second grade teacher, Mrs. Henry, about how to take care of it. Armed with what I believed was thorough knowledge on his care, I put my salamander in an old turtle bowl that I had, dug earthworms that I put in his sand for him to eat. He was living a good life on a north facing window sill, until one day he had buried himself in the sand and was dead. It was a cold December day when I carried him into the kitchen crying, and it took some doing on my parents part to convince me that a (flushing) burial at sea would be in everyone's best interest. We gathered round the bowl and I recited 'The Lord's Prayer,' for his tiny soul, and my brother as pallbearer gave the flush. At school, when I began to tell Mrs. Henry that he was dead, before I could say anything more, she said, "Oh, he probably isn't dead honey, salamanders hibernate."
That's funny! :D :D :D
He went for a good nap and probably woke up in the sewage! lol
The one I had today I just put him near where I found him
Well, the salamander found himself/herself with a lifetime amount of organic matter to feast on :).
Did you know baby turkeys often drown in a heavy rainstorm because they look up and the water runs into their nostrils and kills them? At least that is what I have always heard.
Did you know with many birds and some animals the males have brightly colored plumage, markings and coats to attract females while the females tend to be drab and dull so they blend in the background more so they can safely sit on the nest or otherwise protect the young. Think of redbirds, peacocks, mallard and wood ducks, etc. as good examples. An African Kudu antelope is an example of a mammal where this is the case.
(I would suggest this is also true with humans too but I don't want to stir up controversy with any of our female respondents. ::))
Careful, would't want to have to move this over to the "Did something dumb today" thread. :D
WV, the womens groups are already building a file on you, be careful.
Quote from: KEC on October 02, 2021, 08:42:36 PM
WV, the womens groups are already building a file on you, be careful.
:D
Did you know wild grapes will dry into raisins on the vine and will be eaten by wildlife for weeks to come? The high sugar content helps preserve them and they don't rot. Any Fall Season turkey killed around here in WV will almost certainly have dried grapes in his crop. Deer, squirrels, coons, bears, and other birds readily eat them too.
Lil was putting out some rubbish tonight and tells me "there's this monster slug on the side of the house".
It was pretty impressive so I bought it in to show the kids.
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Turns out its a Leopard Slug, a European species that's spread to many places around the world, and can grow to 8" long!!!. So this one is just a baby. :D
It had friend as well.
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Being in a kind mood I took them down the back and let them go in the long grass where they won't cause any more frights.
I think the herb butter was my favorite part of the fancy meal of those things :D
I could relate my politically incorrect snail joke about snails not having a backbone and you are what you eat and such but I will be nice for a change.
What I remember of big snails was waking up all bleary eyed when I had OD in Okinawa and they'd have a comm-ex going on. I'd have to walk next door to the comm center sign for messages in the wee hours of the morning and would be half asleep and I'd step on an egg sized snail on the sidewalk and go slipping sliding all over the concrete for several feet trying to stay upright.
Did you know the preferred fire starter in the southern USA was heart of pine with the sapwood all rotted off and was called "Light'erd or Light'ard" assumedly (Is that a word? Should be.) from the more "sophisticated" term "Light Wood". Light'erd stumps, knots and occasionally a standing pith would be cut or broken off and hauled home and cut into splinter sized pieces for fire starter. Light'erd was so rich in sap a single match touched to it would immediately ignite it. It was very aromatic. Old timers would light a light'erd knot and use it as a torch. It is very hard to saw because the pitch sticks to the blade so bad and is very hard to split because of the tight grain pattern and such.
For me, it is not was but is is....I still start all fires in my wood stoves with light-erd pine.
I use fatwood when I can get it ;D
I heard on the radio a little while ago that they just declared 23 species extinct, most have been gone for years. Among the critters was the ivory bill woodpecker.
Some folks in Texas call it fat pine.
Don,
I bet Fatwood is the same thing just a different name here closer to the Glaciated North. As a small kid I can remember going out with my maternal grandfather in his mule and wagon to collect light'erd knots for his winter kindling.
I saw that about the 23 newly declared extinct species. I hope they are wrong about the IB Woodpecker.
I did a research paper on them in college and that was when I found the big woodpeckers my grandfather talking about shooting and eating from Pumpkin Swamp in Dixie County Fla were the IB woodpeckers. When doing my research I remember reading there was some hope there were some surviving in Cuba. I don't know if it was the same species or a sub-species. I know they spotted/confirmed a sighting of a male bird in a swamp in Arkansas 10-12 years ago but never found a female or the den/nest hole and they had a hurricane or bad tornadoes come through that swap a year or so later and were concerned that might have been the coups de grace for the IBW. I hope they are wrong.
TR,
I think we are all talking the same wood.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 04, 2021, 03:07:51 PM
Don,
I bet Fatwood is the same thing just a different name here closer to the Glaciated North. As a small kid I can remember going out with my maternal grandfather in his mule and wagon to collect light'erd knots for his winter kindling.
I saw that about the 23 newly declared extinct species. I hope they are wrong about the IB Woodpecker.
TR,
I think we are all talking the same wood.
Yep, you hear it all down here, fat pine, fatwood, lighter pine, etc.
One Ivory Bill Woodpecker story. I held one in my hand back in the '60's, it was frozen, and in the freezer of a far out newspaper publisher in a little town in south east Texas. Would have made a good meal, by size.
Might have tasted like spotted owl.
When we moved up here the eastern white pine doesn't really make lighter. The best it'll do is sometimes I'll slice off a streak o' lean around an injury, not that there can't be places full of liquid rosin in a split or break, it just doesn't seem to make much in the way of real fat lighter.
I remember the ivory bill sighting, it was quite a commotion at the time but I never heard of another. After hearing the recording of it, I don't think you would have to set your eyes on one to know it was there.
When they reported Ivory-bills in Arkansas it prompted me to read 2 different books about them. I think one was "Lord God Bird". It is a sad story. Amoung other things, the Singer Sewing Machine Co. clearcut the huge Singer Tract out of fear that they might be told they would have to leave habitat for the birds. Then there were "ornithologists" that went out of their way to shoot some of the last known birds to add them to their personal collection.
As I have related before when I was 7-8 years old I went hunting with my paternal grandfather in Pumpkin Swamp in Dixie County Fla and while we were walking along a big, I assume, Pileated woodpecker flew by and Grandpa changed from buckshot to small shot and said "Them ol woodpeckers are good eating but you don't hardly ever see none of them old big ones any more."
Probably 12-13 years later I was studying Wildlife Biology at Auburn and did a research paper on Ivory Billed Woodpeckers and during my research I found one of the last know locations for IBWs was in Pumpkin Swamp in Dixie County Fla. I have no doubt my grandfather was a contributing factor in the IBW demise. :(
Grandpa was one of the early game wardens in the state of Fla after a career as a plume hunter, alligator hunter and such. To the day he died I think he would still shoot at any Bald Eagle he saw as he swore one tried to catch my dad when he was a baby on a quilt under a shade tree at the edge of the field where Grandma was working. He said a little old Feist dog chased it away. For all we know the eagle might have been trying to catch the dog.
You are just one eagle away from not being born :).
Danny,
There were several gators and many, many rattlesnakes and cottonmouths that could make that same claim.
BTW - did you know that venomous snakes can control the amount of venom they inject into their prey or enemy when they bite? Often they will make what is called a "dry bite" and inject little, if any venom into a bite. Evidently it takes a while for the snake to replace venom used so rather than waste it chasing away a potential threat they will make a dry bite as a sort of warning. I assume they are more likely to make a wet bite on prey they intend to kill.
I also understand snakes that hunt birds and such often have more potent, faster acting venom because they need to make a nearly instant kill or lose the prey. Evidently snakes that hunt ground prey like rodents and rabbits and such can bite then trail it several feet if needed to find it.
Did you know when a constrictor type snake kills its prey it does so by wrapping its coils tightly around it and holding steady pressure? Every time the prey exhales the constrictor tightens its grip and takes up the slack. The prey soon suffocates because it cannot inhale.
Do you know if a chipmunk will bite when caught? You'd think he would but I have caught several and they did not. You'd think he would eat you up and enjoy doing it. I can't say my sample was big enough to qualify as a proper scientific study. I know even an otherwise gentle, pet flying squirrel and it seems like the cat squirrels too, would nip you when you put your hands around their belly.
I caught a chipmunk by hand probably about 60 years ago and once I got a good grip on him, he quickly pierced a hole through the web between my thumb and index finger!
I guess reflex action kicked in and the little bugger was suddenly squashed!
That's what I suspected but the last 2 I caught/rescued only tried to escape and did not bite. I have been very reluctant to try again as it just looks like those little mini-beavers would shred your hand quickly. I still have nightmares of the time I stuck my finger in to touch the wiggly nose of a big tame rabbit and he nearly took off my trigger finger. I've never had a cottontail try to bite me but that tame one sure did.
Did you know the North American porcupine can weigh up to 77 lbs and live up to 15 years? Also, if you care for your oak trees, take a inventory check every couple of days or you may lose some to these beasts.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/65126/1EAADE73-5DC7-4C00-83A0-655328C80F45.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1633620938)
Black blobs in tree crowns? Rid of them before your trees end up like this
I had no idea they could get that big. I thought they were about the size of a coon. The only one I ever saw was a road kill near Bar Harbor Maine on a vacation up there. He looked about the size of a big beaver but I thought he was severely bloated by the sun. A 77 lb porcupine sounds like a good start to a horror movie to me.
I seen one today I tried to catch with a club but it was fast! Ran over into the neighbouring land so I stopped chasing, sure he'll be back. I did not know until today they could run that fast, probably a good jogging speed of a human.
I did not know they could read posted signs either and I see this one figured out how to get away from you. Pretty smart critter if you ask me.
The biggest porcupine I have see was running up a dirt road, I must have startled it the when I drove out my camp driveway. It was big enough that at first I thought it was a bear cub. It was twice the size of any I had seen before.
Very funny VW lol , this was only 25 ft to the edge of my property though, he went off into some new growth spruce/balsam, they logged that 15 year ago so it's perfect for them buggers
Quote from: Hilltop366 on October 07, 2021, 04:40:32 PM
The biggest porcupine I have see was running up a dirt road, I must have startled it the when I drove out my camp driveway. It was big enough that at first I thought it was a bear cub. It was twice the size of any I had seen before.
That one I seen today must have been around 40-50lbs. Probably one of the bigger ones I’ve seen.
I have a very simple rule in dealing with wild animals up close and personal. None of them will bite, unless you give them the opportunity.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 07, 2021, 11:14:41 AMI stuck my finger in to touch the wiggly nose of a big tame rabbit and he nearly took off my trigger finger.
He just thought it was nice juicy carrot!
Did you know that while everyone knows bats carry and transmit rabies they also cause heart attacks, strokes and hearing loss? If you find that hard to believe you should have been downstairs in my basement midafternoon yesterday when my wife opened our sons old bedroom door where she keeps her big quilting machine set up. Somehow a large bat had gotten in the house and he buzzed her pretty good. I am sure the neighbors a quarter mile away heard her screaming at me to come catch this thing. I rushed downstairs and the bat was flying around the utility room then back into the quilting room/bedroom. I closed the door to contain him in that room and I calmly walked over, pulled the curtains open and opened the window. My wife was offering excited suggestions on whether I needed towels or sheets or such to catch him in. While I did get buzzed a few times I never made any attempt to defend myself or catch or harm the bat nor did he attack me. He finally swooped by the open window, spotted the opening and flew out. Problem solved!
I don't know how he got in the house as he seemed like a pretty large bat and hopefully we have seen the last of him at least inside. Bats can be like snakes - they won't hurt you but they will make you hurt yourself. Especially when you have an easily excitable spouse to contend with.
One of these days maybe I'll tell you about the time the cat dropped the chipmunk and it ran up her pants legs.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 08, 2021, 09:53:37 AM
One of these days maybe I'll tell you about the time the cat dropped the chipmunk and it ran up her pants legs.
No need, just made up my own story. 8)
TR,
I'll make a deal with you - you tell me your version and I'll tell you mine. ;) :D
did you know you can boil water in a paper cup. it is a part of a youth group ordeal and i am sworn to secrecy. but you get a cup, and raw egg and water. two matches to start a fire, and a pack of hot chocolate mix. when you are done boiling the egg in the water in the cup, you add the hot chocolate mix. you get a slice of bread so if you are lucky you get a slice of toast, a cup of hot chocolate and a boiled egg, as well as a small fire to warm up with for breakfast. if you knock over the water and put out your fire. you get a pack of dry hot chocolate mix, a piece of bread, and a raw egg. the water in the cup keeps it from catching on fire.
usflag
Did you know that I don't eat boiled eggs so this tip will not do me a lot of good? :D
I did know you could boil liquid in a bark, bamboo, big leaf or other flammable container if you kept the flames low and not above the level of the liquid. Indians and other indigenous group used to use the stomach of their kill to boil soups and stews in the same fashion.
well given your frequency on the did something dumb thread, i guess you like your eggs raw! :D :D :D
Doc,
Why don't you go hard boil a turtle egg! I promise that will keep you busy for a while. :D
I eat my eggs scrambled hard or as an omelet. I have been known to eat a hard fried egg on a ham and egg sandwich but even then it is much better if the yoke were broken early on in cooking.
Over and easy the only way. If I go the scrambled route I just add hot sauce
Quote from: doc henderson on October 08, 2021, 05:04:16 PM
did you know you can boil water in a paper cup. it is a part of a youth group ordeal and i am sworn to secrecy. but you get a cup, and raw egg and water. two matches to start a fire, and a pack of hot chocolate mix. when you are done boiling the egg in the water in the cup, you add the hot chocolate mix. you get a slice of bread so if you are lucky you get a slice of toast, a cup of hot chocolate and a boiled egg, as well as a small fire to warm up with for breakfast. if you knock over the water and put out your fire. you get a pack of dry hot chocolate mix, a piece of bread, and a raw egg. the water in the cup keeps it from catching on fire.
Wow Doc, I hadn't thought about my Ordeal days in many decades! Thanks for that. We didn't get a paper cup, we got a brown paper bag and hoped it wouldn't leak (it was the late 60's). :D Yes, you can also boil water in a brown paper sandwich bag. I ate fine that morning, but was plenty hungry before lunchtime. :) By the way, have you seen the light? I don't really recall what I went through on the second step. But I surely remember that long night when I sat Vigil (20 years ago next month (it was not warm), I just had to check the date). Some very good times, for sure that will always stay with me. As an older youth (ute?) I served on the ceremonial team as Kitchkinet and during the day I was the head taskmaster for the Ordeal during the summer camp sessions. Served as an OA advisor for several stints 2 decades later, really enjoyed those young men, we went all over. The National Leadership Seminar was a highlight for me to bring some young men to and partake in with the National Chief. These days it's just another framed certificate on the wall.
But I like eggs any way they come, except maybe raw, unless it is in a very good German beer. I eat 'em scrambled, but prefer fried, over easy but never had benedict. I hard boil some to take in the woods for the day when I am doing that sort of work, or sliced on a sammich. Nary a day goes by I don't have a least two, sometimes 4. With a free source, it's hard not to like them, and some we get are pretty big (I gotta figure out which hen that is and thank her). My friend Bill just built a 'help yourself' honesty egg stand which will be diagonally across the road and I spent the late afternoon making him a little cashbox which is not quite done. I'd rather buy our eggs from him, but he prefers to give them to us. Now I can finally get my way. :D ;D
Did you know throughout central Africa there are giant fruit bats? They are about the size of crows and eat the assorted tropical fruits in season such as mangos, bananas, figs, etc.
There was a big fruit bat rookery in a couple of huge mango trees in Douala (Doo Allah) Cameroon near where I lived and worked when I was there in the early 2000s. There were easily 10s of thousands, if not more, bats roosting in the trees and at sunset when they started leaving the roost or when disturbed they would look like black volcano circling the trees and would literally blacken the skies. Local residents would sometimes come shoot them with pellet guns and eat them.
We went back for a visit in 2008 and I took my wife over to photograph them and she had great camera and lenses. When she got back to the hotel and checked her pictures on the computer and could blow them up she asked "What are these things on these bats?" I looked and told her "They are male bats." Her cameras and lenses could pick out enough detail to readily identify the sex of the bats.
I'm sure glad one of them never got in my house when my wife was around. fly_smiley smiley_sweat_drop
Did you know that animals that are nocturnal in nature typically are color blind? I can't think of any nocturnal animal that sees in color. Animals that see in color that I can think of are all Diurnal in nature. (Think of humans, monkeys, apes, and diurnal birds.) Night active birds like owls do not see color as far as I know. I assume that is true of the one species of nocturnal night monkey in the Amazon basin.
Quote from: Old Greenhorn on October 08, 2021, 07:40:49 PMWe didn't get a paper cup, we got a brown paper bag and hoped it wouldn't leak (it was the late 60's)
When I did this, we had an orange and a egg, and had to boil the egg in the orange husk/peel. Got the water from the lake.
JJ
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 10, 2021, 10:02:11 PM
Did you know that animals that are nocturnal in nature typically are color blind? I can't think of any nocturnal animal that sees in color. Animals that see in color that I can think of are all Diurnal in nature. (Think of humans, monkeys, apes, and diurnal birds.) Night active birds like owls do not see color as far as I know. I assume that is true of the one species of nocturnal night monkey in the Amazon basin.
I might have to fact check this :D I'm colorblind and I like to be in bed by 9:30 8)
JJ that sounds mmmmmmm good. depends on how hungry you are. xtra protein from the micro organisms in the lake water. :) usflag
Quote from: doc henderson on October 11, 2021, 12:34:56 PM
JJ that sounds mmmmmmm good. depends on how hungry you are. xtra protein from the micro organisms in the lake water. :) usflag
MMMMM water bears!!!
back then, bottled water!?!, unheard of unless by gallon(s) or Perrier..
It was Maine :laugh:
Quote from: jb616 on October 11, 2021, 12:12:02 PM
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 10, 2021, 10:02:11 PMDid you know that animals that are nocturnal in nature typically are color blind? I can't think of any nocturnal animal that sees in color. Animals that see in color that I can think of are all Diurnal in nature. (Think of humans, monkeys, apes, and diurnal birds.) Night active birds like owls do not see color as far as I know. I assume that is true of the one species of nocturnal night monkey in the Amazon basin.
I might have to fact check this :D I'm colorblind and I like to be in bed by 9:30 8)
Please do and let us know what you find. I would be particularly interested if you find a nocturnal animal that is not color blind. The fact you are color blind and are not nocturnal may open you to assorted medical research opportunities. Let us know how you enjoy the rest of your life as guinea pig. :D
Did you know with the increase in access to crossbows and modern compound bows, many people are hunting in the suburbs and woodlots much closer to peoples homes than they were previously allowed to hunt? This is a good thing to help thin the overpopulated deer herds in such areas and help reduce the incidences of lyme disease and deer/car accidents. Many homeowners with sizeable lots will allow you to hunt there because the deer ravage their landscaping and such. Others like to feed the deer and watch them and this often causes disputes between next door neighbors. I used to like to watch the TV show "Chasing tail" (Poor choice of titles if you ask me but the producers did not) filmed in Connecticut I think where the hunters would hunt around wealthy homes and golf courses. Occasionally the arrow shot deer would go die next door in the back yard of the PETA president or one of his members and they would have to sneak over and get him out. (Yeah - I know there are varying thoughts on that but even though my land is posted I have always told my neighbors if they wound a deer and he goes on my place to go get him or call and I'll help them recover it. Anyway, lets not beat that issue up here. There some conflicting moral and legal issues there.)
What I would like to do is remind you mobile sawyers and others working in the woods and fields, if you find you need to "commune with nature" check for nearby feeders, tree stands and maybe even game cameras. I finished a job today and while briefly checking out the adjacent woodlot for a quick sojourn, I noted a deer feeder hanging near where I had just been and had been the day before. It is bow season here so I assume it is or has been in use. I doubt I helped him attract any deer and, if he did have a trail camera out, I doubt he got my good side. ::) (It may actually belong to my customer as there is not active fence from his yard and it is not posted.) Kind of reminds me of the old movie "Doc Hollywood" where they try to scare the deer away with judicious scent markings near where the hunters were setting up their tree stands.
Did you know that a pound of fresh cut softwood sawdust (any species) at 28% moisture content weighs 16 ounces while a pound of kiln dried hardwood sawdust (any species) dried to 4% moisture content weighs the same. ???
A graduating class of UGA foresters were presented with this question on an exam but the professor had to throw it out as the dean told him it was a trick question. I understand a Texas A&M student has taken this on as his doctoral project and his thesis is expected within 12-14 months if all his experiments proceed as planned and he is granted the computer access he needs from his department. ;)
Yes, deer stands everywhere, for the last 2 year, I been going down my trail with someone's unauthorized deer stand right 250meter through the bush, 20 meter or so into my land, with my trees cut and litter everywhere. The kill zone/bait area was pointing directly through the bushes where I normally walk. Found this deer stand trimming the old property lines.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 12, 2021, 12:37:11 PM
Did you know that a pound of fresh cut softwood sawdust (any species) at 28% moisture content weighs 16 ounces while a pound of kiln dried hardwood sawdust (any species) dried to 4% moisture content weighs the same. ???
A graduating class of UGA foresters were presented with this question on an exam but the professor had to throw it out as the dean told him it was a trick question. I understand a Texas A&M student has taken this on as his doctoral project and his thesis is expected within 12-14 months if all his experiments proceed as planned and he is granted the computer access he needs from his department. ;)
And a 1,000 cubic centimeters takes up almost a full liter of space.
Did you know that otters shake like a dog after getting out of the water?
I never really thought about it until I watched one climb on to a rock on the river bank this past weekend.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/_DSC0393.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1634067821)
Quote from: Hilltop366 on October 12, 2021, 03:45:16 PM
Did you know that otters shake like a dog after getting out of the water?
I never really thought about it until I watched one climb on to a rock on the river bank this past weekend.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/_DSC0393.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1634067821)
Otters seem to have a lot of energy!
I never watched an otter shake the water off his coat but if they do like a dog when they shake they start at the front then move down their body shaking the water down their body to their tail until they finally wag their tail to shake the last of the water off. Did you ever notice how a bob-tailed dog ends up shaking his butt with his hind feet off the ground.
BTW - while it is well known a cat will always land on his feet but did you ever watch his technique to do so? If you drop a cat upside down he first twists his upper body till his front feet are pointed down then he twists his back end until it is in line and all 4 feet are pointed down.
I KNEW that our dog (and most dogs) aren't nearly as skilled and careful as our cat, or near as graceful. Of course, cats in general are very independent where as our dog is very "pack oriented" (and most dogs that are raised like my wife raised ours (another issue for another time) wants to be RIGHT UP YOUR BACKSIDE to the point of being annoying. I personally like "some" independence but our cat stays within 50yds of our house and we don't have fenced property. Our dog wants it's people because we're it's "pack"). Enough of MY rambling on the subject, NEXT!
My old vet had a sign in her office "Dogs come when called. Cats say 'Take a message.' " That pretty well describes their personality.
You're not calling a cat right, they only respond to "SPSSS SPSSS SPSSSS SPSS SPSS"
Then they'll come trotting like a dog , helps if you sprinkle your fingers to indicate a pet to the head lol
If a plane crashes on the US/Canadian border. where do they bury the survivors?
On the same side the egg landed on that the rooster laid on ridgeline of the barn centered on the border.
Quote from: doc henderson on October 13, 2021, 07:33:02 AM
If a plane crashes on the US/Canadian border. where do they bury the survivors?
I would think they survivors would complain about being buried anywhere.
Did you know if you shine a light on a spider at night it's eyes will shine? Some are a greenish tint and some are red or orange.
I really noticed the spider eyes a lot more when I started using a head lamp or cap with led lights when coming back from hunting after dark. It's amazing how many eyeballs are looking back at you from the leaf litter. Seems like they're a lot more visible when the light souce is at my eye level.
Quote from: Old Greenhorn on October 13, 2021, 02:25:40 PM
Quote from: doc henderson on October 13, 2021, 07:33:02 AM
If a plane crashes on the US/Canadian border. where do they bury the survivors?
I would think they survivors would complain about being buried anywhere.
After last weeks defeat of Auburn a van load of happy UGA fans were headed north along a rural Alabama highway and due to their over-exuberance, the driver missed a turn and crashed into a a big pine tree. A few minutes later Bubba rounded the turn in his Auburn themed county road maintenance truck with a big front end loader in tow. When he saw the terrible crash and bodies everywhere in their Red and Black UGA attire he stopped and considered the situation. Since he knew the county was going to have to foot the expense for all the burials and being a conscientious and diligent county employee, as is to be expected from a die-hard Auburn fan, he decided it was his duty to help cut costs and save the county money where he could. He parked his truck, set up the safety cones and unloaded the big front loader, dug a big hole in the side of the clay bank, pushed the wrecked van and all the bodies into the hole and filled it back in and tamped the fill dirt tightly. He returned to the office and put away his equipment. Monday morning he went to see LeRoy, his boss/fishing buddy/fellow Auburn fan and reported the incident and actions taken. LeRoy concluded this was the proper course of action and no doubt had saved the county thousands of dollars. He did ask Bubba one question: "Are you sure they were all killed in the wreck?" Bubba replied "Oh yeah they were all killed in the wreck. Nobody could survive that. A couple said were not dead but you know you can't trust a bunch of UGA Dawgs like that."
Well, at least I have been properly insulted.
In many Native American cultures, the might of a man was dependent on the mite of his enemies. You Sir, are a mighty man.
I knew that was a trait common with the mountain men. Maybe they picked it from the Indians they lived with. It was a point of honor to have the meanest horse, ugliest wife, laziest dog, most contrary mule, etc. I have come across several members here who think we need to preserve this heritage and I am glad to help in any way I can.
Did you know that catfish, especially channel catfish, when hooked will twist repeatedly in the same direction on the line? In some cases they actually succeed in twisting the line so much the hook pulls free. An eel is another fish that will often do the same thing. It is common to lift a set hook and find the line completely twisted around the, now, bare hook. If there is a big patch of slime on the line around the hook you know it was an eel.
Use of a swivel will prevent this kind of escape. I personally don't use a swivel due the extra cost, time involved in making up my lines and mostly because the twisty escapees are usually the smaller fish anyway.
Well, the first time I saw her a couple of deer were crossing the road, it was dusky early light and I wasn't positive of what I saw. By the time I got up there all I could see was movement in the brush. But yesterday in full light within a couple of hundred yards of that spot she crossed the road in front of me with her mates and proceeded to put her head down and graze, oblivious enough that I just stopped and watched for a minute. From the head through the shoulders and down her front legs she is a normal colored deer. From there back she is white with brown spots, a paint doe. I imagine its not that uncommon but I've never seen one before.
They are pretty rare. I hope you can get and post some pictures of it. I saw a pied yearling with a normal doe 5-6 years ago near Lewisberg WV while riding with my son. We first thought it was a pair of goats. He even stopped and tried to get a picture or two on his phone but I think it was too far away to get any detail.
I'd have to think about it if one came out while I was hunting. I'd probably pass on it as we have plenty of normal deer and I'm not into trophies or saving skins or such so no real value to me other than the meat which is readily available on normal deer around here.
I'd be curious what percentage of the herd is like that. Must be pretty small, but not rare. They're called piebald deer. Saw my first one a couple years ago. One sighting only. It was a good size buck and even the antlers were partly white. No opportunity for pictures. Haven't seen him since that one time.
Piebald deer (https://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsession/blogs/deer/piebald-and-albino-deer-one-in-thirty-thousand)
Well it says "less than 2%" so that could be any percentage greater than zero. Hmmmm. I don't know how many deer I've seen in my life but it's a pretty big number and only one piebald. I've actually seen albino deer more often, but pretty sure it was the same deer on multiple occasions.
Nature is pretty entertaining if you just keep your eyes open!
I've only seen the one pied/piebald deer among all the ones I've seen. I saw a mount of one somewhere but can't remember when or where. I have never seen an albino deer. I did see and have posted pictures here of an albino coon several years ago. I saw a white squirrel several times one week several years ago in a local state park but it was never close enough for me to see if it was a fox or cat(gray) squirrel or to tell if it was a true albino or a white color phased squirrel. We also had a white robin here at a neighbors and my photographer wife got and provided the neighbor who reported it a picture of it. It came back for 2-3 years which amazed me it even lived that long. We had 2 piebald turkey hens one time on our place for a couple of years but I don't know if that was normal or they just got crossed with a white domestic turkey.
The term sure is bumping the rust on an old gear but if I've seen one its been a long time ago. I have seen it in turkeys here, I've been told it is domestic crosses. There used to be sheep and turkey drives to the little rail stations, bound for points north, and escapees. I don't know for sure but it made sense.
I used to see a piebald doe in my yard quite regularly 10 - 15 years ago then it moved up the road a bit.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/2262/IMG_1476.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1240111728)
I did see a young small deer last fall with a bit of extra white on it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/20201120_115426.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1634248683)
Hilltop,
Boy is that a fat doe! I first thought it was cow. I assume she was pregnant with triplets at the time.
Did you know that while most fish are silent, catfish make a croaking, grunting sound when you pull them out of the water? I assume that is one of the reasons Sampson likes to bark at them so much. Either that or he just doesn't like their whiskers. :D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 15, 2021, 07:28:17 AM
Hilltop,
Boy is that a fat doe! I first thought it was cow. I assume she was pregnant with triplets at the time.
She does look rather plump, the doe was also stockier looking than the rest and it's coat is more furry as well (if that makes sense).
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 15, 2021, 07:30:25 AM
Did you know that while most fish are silent, catfish make a croaking, grunting sound when you pull them out of the water? I assume that is one of the reasons Sampson likes to bark at them so much. Either that or he just doesn't like their whiskers. :D
And herring communicate making a high pitch sound by releasing gas. I'll let you guess where they are releasing gas from. ???
It must come out of their ears which is why they have trouble "herring". :D
Did you know that a whitetail doe, when she "busts" a hunter or predator will walk towards it and stomp her front foot and sometimes snort at it? Apparently this will warn other deer in the area and make the predator nervous and possibly cause a premature charge allowing the deer enough time and distance to escape. I am sure most deer hunters here in America have encountered this if they have spent much time in the woods but did you know African antelope will do exactly the same thing? We watched a cow waterbuck on the Nukuru Game Preserve doing the same thing when she encountered a leopard in the tall grass. It is pretty neat to see identical attributes in different animals in totally different continents.
Today was the start of a 2 day Youth/Senior hunting season where kids 8-14 or seniors (65+) can kill an antlerless deer that does not count against their season bag limit. We are low on deer meat and I usually collect one on this hunt and another or two during the regular season. I went this morning and found my feeder has not been working due to a loose battery wire. I did not see any deer around my shooting house after several houts so I finished reading my last Grisham novel and started home. After about 200 yards in the pasture I saw my horse and a half grown fawn then the doe about 30 yards from me. I stopped the ATV, took my rifle off and grabbed a round and started to insert it and kept looking at the stupid fawn and reslung my rifle and rode home leaving them all there. This is the fawn's first winter and he is probably big enough to survive or would take up with another doe and fawn and do okay but I did not have the heart to shoot the doe and orphan him even though she was very tempting. I should have just shot the fawn! ::) He was legal too. Maybe tomorrow will be better.
Did you ever watch a whitetail deer jump a fence? I think Elk and many types of antelopes use the technique but it is grace in motion. Instead of getting a running start, which would seem to make it easier to clear the obstacle, the deer walks up to the fence, comes to a complete stop then squats part way down and jumps. As he jumps he lifts his front legs against his chest then as his chest clears the fence he lowers his front legs, arches his back, and lifts and tucks his powerful hind legs until his back hooves are practically, if not actually, touching his belly. He touches down first on his front hooves then on his rear ones for a perfect landing.
We once raised an orphan doe and I used to take her to the small creek in the front yard and coax her to jump back and forth over it just to watch her use this same technique.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 15, 2021, 10:02:14 PM
It must come out of their ears which is why they have trouble "herring". :D
Sounds fishy.
I first saw the technique when Rudolf met Clarice in the documentary, "Rudolf the red nosed reindeer".
Clarice Rudolph Girlfriend - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Clarice+Rudolph+Girlfriend&&view=detail&mid=1F7CDB0FAC581C4459351F7CDB0FAC581C445935&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3DClarice%2BRudolph%2BGirlfriend%26Form%3DVDRSCL%26%3D0)
Must be a Kansas thing? :P
Since it is hunting season or will be soon for most of us, did you know that for most animals, including humans, the first thing the eye picks out is motion? A camoflaged hunter moving in the brush will generally be seen before a motionless hunter in an orange vest standing in front of a tree. Think about chipmunks - we see them running in the leaves all the time but as soon as they stop it is nearly impossible to spot them unless they are fully exposed on top of a rock or log or such. A deer or turkey or even a full grown African elephant standing in the brush will not be seen until it flicks a tail, bobs a head or wiggles an ear.
Keep this in mind when hunting and look for small motions and when you detect them key on the area and look for an animal there. Also to keep from being seen when hunting or animal watching, keep your movements slow and not silhouetted. Easing your hand up to scratch your nose is much harder to see than if your hand or arm is out to your side. Sitting in front of a solid surface such as a large tree makes movement harder to spot.
The other things the eye picks out include shape, texture, shine, color and shape. Look for horizontal shapes in the woods to pick out a deer or elk's back. Most trees and such are vertical so horizontal shapes stand out. Animal fur has a different texture and will stand out differently than slick leaves and such. The sun shining off a big buck's antlers can help reveal his location. In the summer our deer have a reddish coat and can be readily seen. In the winter they have a dark brown coat that blends in much better with their surroundings.
Stripes and varying patterns help hide animals by creating a shadow effect that helps them blend in with their surrounding.
All these issues are covered in military camo, cover, and concealment training sessions. Military snipers have to become masters of not being seen and seeing their enemy first. These factors are fully as important to them as accuracy with their rifle. While not as critical to hunters they do make a big difference between whether you are dining on grilled backstraps or fillet of bologna (again).
this is why albino varients tens to do poorly in nature.
Since Doc mentioned the albino coloring he triggered the next topic (I love it when you guys post and help me think of the next topic to post.) Did you know certain animals change colors with the seasons to help them blend in better for protection and to help them sneak up on/ambush their prey? Examples I can think of are snowshoe hares, artic foxes, and Ptarmigan.
I assume these color changes (Generally brown to white then back again) are triggered by the length of the daylight and sometimes if the season change (i.e Snow) is too early coming or too late leaving, these animals are now exposed and at greater risk by wearing the wrong color for their backgrounds.
One thing I just noted is these are all North American animals. If our Kiwis/Aussie, South American, European or Asian members know of any in your area please reply and add them to the list as the rest of us (well, me) would like to know about them.
Ermine also have a white coat in winter.
JJ
Good catch. Thanks.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 19, 2021, 08:51:17 AMOne thing I just noted is these are all North American animals. If our Kiwis/Aussie, South American, European or Asian members know of any in your area please reply and add them to the list as the rest of us (well, me) would like to know about them.
None that I can think of. NZ / Aussie gets snow in the Mountains, but it's localised and temporary except high up, where nothing really lives. There isn't large land areas like Canada / Siberia that are snow covered for months on end. So even the species that live up in the Mts, like the Kea bird, are regular green / red parrots, just quite at home in the snow.
We may see albino or leucistic versions of normal critters, but they don't have any survival advantage, likely more of a disadvantage.
Piebald deer sometimes have genetic abnormaladies like bent lower legs. And they are sometimes shunned by normal deer. About deer jumping fences, I have seen them do that standing jump over a 6' fence and clear it just fine. I once saw a deer that tried to jump a wrought iron fence by a cemetary with those spears sticking up at the top. The deer was slumped over the top of the fence with those spears protruding up out of its' back and DoA. On 2 occaisions I saw deer that panicked and ran full speed into a chain link fence and bounced off only to try try again untill their nose was bloodied. I've seen several deer that got a hind leg caught in a woven wire fence along a highway right-of-way. Poor things were held there untill they died. Fences are not real wildlife friendly.
I approached with a branch stick to try to push hoof out, a whitetail hung up by back hoof in or hard fence had tried to leap, once saw me close ,had a adrenaline surge twisted and got hoof free
our whitetail deer change color with the season. more red in summer gray to dark brown fall and winter.
Ours do the same thing here but it is not as drastic a change as completely brown to white.
The higher peaks here have small remnant ecosystems stranded there when the last ice age retreated. Things like balsam fir, red spruce and snowshoe hares. Places like Whitetop aren't white as much any more. There was an article in the paper a year or two ago about the predators having a much easier time on the hares to the detriment of their remaining population. If you look at a map of their range it comes down the spine of the Appalachian range, for now?
There is one old remnant codger left over from the ice age in those WV peaks that has a penchant for preying on catfish, but he does not change colors, he stands steadfast on blue and orange.
Did you know variants have a greater or lesser chance of survival in changing conditions? Cooler climates with increased snow may mean a lighter colored phased animal will survive and pass along his genes to the next generation. With less snow a darker phase may have a better chance of survival.
In some cases a more visible variant may have a better chance of survival/replacing the more drab variants because it may be seen and breed more readily and spread its genes quicker and over a wider area.
I could say this is the case in humans but the last time I mentioned such I heard I made the ladies here on the FF mad at me and we sure don't want that or I may become the next extinct species. :D
Blue and Orange may be the colors required to attract WV catfish and prevent starvation and vitamin deficiency. I think I'm going to have me a mess of fried catfish fillets and yellow grits for supper. digin1 Its way better eating than a boiled bulldog. ;)
Boiled puppy was served by Native Americans as a special treat for important visitors. Boiled eagle must have been tough, stringy, and unpalatable, although I may try some next Fall.
Quote from: WDH on October 20, 2021, 10:00:03 AM
Boiled puppy was served by Native Americans as a special treat for important visitors. Boiled eagle must have been tough, stringy, and unpalatable, although I may try some next Fall.
much like boiled spotted owl, pepper sauce helps.
I remember Justin Houston used to tell the joke about seeing a little boy walking down the road with a hawk over his shoulder and asked him what he was going to do with him. He said he was going to cook and eat him. Justin was a cook so he asked him "What does a hawk taste like?" He said the little boy replied "Oh, its about like owl."
Did you know that many songbirds stake out a territory and fly from boundary point to boundary point singing to warn other songbirds of the same species to stay away? Ok, we covered that in an earlier thread but did you know the mockingbird does pretty much the same thing only it repeats or "mocks" the songs of other species of birds so, in effect, he is warning multiple species of birds to stay clear of the area?
Did you know the Anole is the south's answer to a chameleon? They are a slender lizard typically 6-8 inches long from the tip of their nose to the very tip of their tail. They change colors back and forth from green to brown/olive based on the background they are on.
You typically see them on screen doors and screened-in porches catching bugs trying to invade the house. They are also found in most vegetation/landscaping and love azaleas and such planted near homes.
Another defense mechanism they have is their tail readily breaks off when a predator, typically a playful housecat, slaps their paw on the tail. They then grow a new tail. It was not uncommon to find a forked tailed Anole where his tail broke partway and a new one started growing at the break.
Males have a large red "dewlap" under their chin that they will display to attract a mate or challenge another male in their territory. As kids we always called this "showing his money" as it was about the size of a typical coin when fully extended. I think @Magicman (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=10011) had posted a video (Along with his pornographic box turtle video) of two Anoles fighting which was pretty impressive. (Lynn - if you can find that lizard fighting video can you please re-post it here).
If you have Anoles in your area, and some pet stores even sell them, you can catch them by setting out baited "traps" of thread, string or fishing line tied to a fly and a limb or nail in the areas the Anoles frequent. They will grab the bug and not turn loose and you can check your trapline and catch them similar to putting out catfish lines.
Anoles make a great pet for kids to play with. They will sometimes open their mouth and bite but cannot hurt a kid. When they were little my son caught a pair and hung them on his little sister's ears as earrings and she was properly traumatized but survived the ordeal with no permanent injuries.
It wasn't a video but here is the topic: LINK (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=50213.msg725559#msg725559)
The amazing thing was how they could increase their apparent size by swelling their bellies, puffing up, and raising the skin up on their backs. After the winner was decided both of them returned to their normal slender size.
Thanks Lynn. Great shots. They sure look vicious for a couple of 6" lizards don't they. :D I guess it is too cold for them here in WV but I sure enjoyed them as a kid. As mentioned, they were great pets for us when we were kids in N. Fla.
Did you know the old Indian word "Vegetarian" meant "Poor Hunter" or in some tribes it meant "Poor Fisherman"? :D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 23, 2021, 09:23:47 AM
Did you know the old Indian word "Vegetarian" meant "Poor Hunter" or in some tribes it meant "Poor Fisherman"? :D
And I thought that it was just a joke, unless you're kidding us Howard.?
I don't know why but that reminded me of this short vegan bacon clip, and I love it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NV8BlBKupHM (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NV8BlBKupHM)
I had always heard if you or your pet got sprayed by a skunk to use tomato juice and one friend used to say he used diesel. Did you know the below is a suggestion to remove skunk smell?
Chemist Paul Krebaum discovered a solution that changes the odorous thiols into odorless acids, thereby chemically neutralizing the skunk odor. The formula is: 1 quart of 3 percent hydrogen peroxide (fresh bottle), • ¼ cup of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate), and • 1-2 teaspoons of liquid dish soap.
I suspect this works better than tomato juice but hope I don't have to try it any time soon.
EDIT: Here is a link I meant to post too.
This is the only effective way to get rid of skunk stink (https://www.yahoo.com/news/only-effective-way-rid-skunk-000500060.html)
I guess War Skunks just doesn't work, even for Auburn.
Hey, don't push it hound dawg! There are videos of the UGA bulldog licking himself where bulldogs are apt to lick themselves. And this is on national TV!
:D. He does it because he can :D.
I can't think of a reply to that that won't have me in the woodshed or banned from the forum. :D
I am somewhat reluctant to post this but since it is public knowledge in some circles and I know it will not be abused here, did you know that crushed walnut, and I understand hickory, nuts and leaves were used to catch fish? Crush up the nuts and leaves in a burlap sack, weight it down and toss it in a deep hole in a creek and stand by to dip up the fish as they float to the surface or come to the surface struggling to breathe. (Hey - its much safer and less destructive than dynamite or a hand grenade. :D)
Did you know that a whitetail deer can smell a worm in an acorn? At Auburn they had some deer in a pen as part of their wildlife program and they collected a bunch of acorns and fed them to the deer. When the deer finished eating the researchers went back and inspected the rejected acorns and found a worm in each one. The deer sniffed through them and ate the good acorns and rejected the wormy ones.
So did the deer "smell the worm" or smell and could tell that the nutmeat was bad? Inquiring minds want to know. I know that it is amazing how many birds and animals can very quickly determine if a nut, seed or whatever is any good. Squirrels with nuts and many birds quickly reject wormy sunflower seeds and such. One time my wife and I went fishing in the St. Lawrence River and caught some round gobies. They are an invasive introduced species so we didn't want to put them back, even though, in the grand scheme of things, it wouldn't make any difference. So I tossed them on the ground, thinking that the numerous Ring-billed Gulls flying around would scarf them up. The gulls only showed a mild interest in the gobies and would not eat them. I later learned that eating raw gobies can give the birds botulism. Ring-billed Gulls and Round Gobies are Old World Species so the gulls have it engrained in their genes to not eat gobies.
Well I had no idea sun flower seeds could get worms...
Quote from: HemlockKing on October 26, 2021, 12:08:03 PM
Well I had no idea sun flower seeds could get worms...
Very small worms.
I think it is some sort of moth that lays eggs either on sunflower seeds or maybe they drill a hole through the seed husk and deposit the egg inside the seed. Leave an open bag of sunflower seed around for a while in warm weather and you get them. The telltale sign of bad seeds is a tiny pinhole in the seed husk which looks like the hole in acorns that are wormy. I'm sure that forum members who collect acorns to plant or eat know to check for those pinholes and reject the acorns with holes. Birds quickly reject wormy sunflower seed; I suspect that they pick up a seed and bite down to feel for the presence of a seed meat. If it crushes easily the seed is not good and they reject it.
I can't answer whether the deer smelled the worm or the acorn smelled bad but he knew not to eat them. I never thought about sunflower seeds getting worms but it make sense they would.
I had a sack of Chinese chestnuts my fishing partner gave me and ate several and they were pretty good but the other day my wife notice little white white worms all over the living room floor. I took the chestnuts outside ad up to the deer feeder when I went hunting. The last I saw there was one busy chipmunk trying to bury them all. I guess the worms did not bother him.
Going back to stunning fish, I heard that pulverized mullen leaves in still water would do the same thing.
I don't think there is a grain that does not get wormy, it seems if there is food there is a mouth or mouths to feed on it.
Quote from: Don P on October 27, 2021, 06:20:29 AM
Going back to stunning fish, I heard that pulverized mullen leaves in still water would do the same thing.
I don't think there is a grain that does not get wormy, it seems if there is food there is a mouth or mouths to feed on it.
I had some weevils show up in the house a few years back. I went through the pantry looking in cereal boxes, oatmeal, flour, etc looking for the culprit. I couldn't find a thing. I had some grass seed in the basement.....Nope. We were planning to have a few friends over and I went to set up my cornhole boards. I found the culprit. My cornhole bags had turned to dust. The natural corn bags now live in the freezer. The synthetics don't.
Wud
I had some crackers I like a lot that have flax seeds in them. I am fine with that, for both flavor, texture, and health reasons, but when some of these seeds on my plate started moving around, I knew we had trouble.
All told, a bit of extra protein that time.
I wouldn't have noticed the movement, I eat from container to mouth as I read or watch the TV.
Wife and I have had issues with moths/worms around a closet where we store dry cereal products in the kitchen. I think that they are Indian Meal Moths. I bought some glue traps labeled for them and didn't have much success. Ended up buying Black Flag brand "Pantry Pest Traps" and put it on the wall right next to the ones that didn't work. The Black Flag caught them hand over fist. No, I'm not a paid endorser.
Did you know that a whitetail deer can stand erect on its hind legs? I know this sounds like a Far Side cartoon but it is common to see a deer standing on its hind legs under an apple tree or such to reach the apples. We raised a pet doe fawn many years ago and found if we held the bottle up Spot would stand on her hind legs to reach it and drink. That was the first I ever knew of them being able to do that. She had amazingly good balance too.
👍⬆️
I knew that after I seen this video a few years ago lol https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b3-jxH1Dm9A (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b3-jxH1Dm9A)
Deers can throw hooves!
Too much doe in heat lure. I spotted it right off. :D
In these parts, white-cedar is a species which although highly desirable, is having difficulty reproducing due to deer. Well, I plant lots of white-cedar and have seen the specs-they can nibble off the tops on these trees until the trees have reached almost ten feet in height! That's hind-leg action for sure.
Did you know that many wild animals come to associate the sounds and smell of humans with food rather than fearing them? Examples are alligators that get fed by thoughtless people or fishermen cleaning their catch near boat docks and landings. Bears out west quickly learn to associate the sound of a rifle shot with a free meal in the form of a gut pile from a field dressed deer, elk, sheep, or such. (You'd think they would normally run from a gunshot but especially since in many states they are protected and the hunter can only shoot one in self-defense they are more likely to get a free meal than to get shot.)
Deer in the south where I was raised learned to associate the sound of chainsaws running from loggers and pulp-wood cutters with easy access to fresh-cut treetops and vines and such that they could not normally access. it was common to see an old worn out single-shot shotgun in a gun rack in a worn out pulpwood truck that looked like it cost less than the gun but those pulpwooders carried that shotgun because they killed a lot of deer around the log landings and such which came when they heard them.
Monkeys and baboons and such are big problems in campgrounds throughout Africa and will get into cars and tents and such. Some even got on the porch and opened the fridge there in our lodge on the Kruger Game Preserve in South Africa and stole our fruit and veggies he had bought. We saw a tourist stop at an overlook on Kruger and they left the car door open and a monkey got in. We told them and they tried to chase it out. The opened the back hatch and a big bag of popcorn fell out and dozens of monkeys swarmed it grabbing handfuls of popcorn and running before the people or other monkeys could steal it from them.
Birds and monkeys would steal food off the outdoor tables in Kenya and the lodges had Masai and Samburu tribesmen in traditional attire with slingshots to chase them off but one still stole our toast, packages of sugar and jelly. I guess toast without jelly would just not be the same. My wife, guide and I were all eye-balling the last piece of French toast and sausage at breakfast at our campground in Namibia. We all wanted it but were too polite to take it from the others but a Vervet monkey ran in and grabbed them both and solved that question of who was going to get it.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 28, 2021, 10:22:19 PMDid you know that many wild animals come to associate the sounds and smell of humans with food rather than fearing them?
100% agree, just from observations, sometimes it's even instinctive.
We have a small bird here called a fantail. it catches insects like mosquitoes etc on the wing. In winter when food is scarcer they will gravitate to any large animal that's wandering past. Cow, horse, human etc, they will flutter around picking off the bugs those big clumsy feet have disturbed. They can get so tame they will land on you sometimes. The native robin is another bird with no fear of humans and they will follow you around in the bush looking for bugs in the leaf litter you disturb as you walk. They are rare though as they have no predator sense and get taken out by cats and stoats etc. Fantails seldom get caught, they never fly in a straight line, so you can't predict where they will go next.
Fish will also learn. Longfin Eels will soon learn if there is food available, and get so "tame" you can hand feed them, or "feed them your hand" if you aren't careful. At a wildlife centre we visited they would feed the "wild" eels in the local stream at the same each day. About 1/2 an hour before feeding time they started arriving and staking out the best spots to grab food. This is maybe 30+ eels, 3 to 5 ft long in a small creek. So they knew not only the feeding spot, but the time of day as well. There is a small park in central New Plymouth that's also home to wild eels, but they know people eat lunch by the stream bank, and they are super keen on and scraps. No digits were lost, but they drew blood from this young fellow.
NZ’s eels New Plymouth - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4lNow3dTNg)
Oscar cichlids are another smart fish. I had one that would recognise me (and beg for food). Anyone else comes up to the tank and he just swam about normally, but if I went up there he acted like an excited puppy. But only for me, not just any random human.
The glass bottom boats in Rarotonga were another classic. They would motor out to a particular spot in a "reserve" section of the lagoon. No fish in sight when they first tie up to the buoy. About 60 seconds later there would be 100s of them appear. Sound of the boat approaching was their cue that lunch was on. They even had a "tame" conger eel that the guides would hand feed.
Here is a video of a catfish that our daughter has 'tamed' and she can pet while it is eating.
IMG 9753 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/o9xh-BcOLEE)
(https://www.youtube.com/shorts/o9xh-BcOLEE)
Lynn,
That was pretty neat but I bet Mr. Whiskers got suspicious when he smelled hushpuppy batter on your daughter's hands and headed for the deep water. :D
Ian,
Thanks for sharing and the prompt for the next topic. I had seen the eels there and on various survival type shows in NZ they would tie some rancid meat or such on a wool sock and catch them when they'd bite and get their eely teeth hung in it.
For today's topic did you know fish can be trained to return to sound? I read where a company was raising sea bream which were a pretty pricey fish for sale. They'd start them in captive pools and ring a bell every time they got ready to feed them. Next they released them in the ocean and would ring the bell and feed them at the same time every day but mostly the bream foraged and fattened on their own. When it came time to harvest them they had their nets ready, rang the bell and maybe threw some feed in the water then netted the bream that came. What amazed me was they said they recovered something like 95% of the fish they had released. I'd have thought they'd have lost much more than that to native predation.
They cut their production costs to almost nothing raising them in this fashion.
Did you know ants in a temp controller can wreck your water heater element, breaker and thermistat?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43722/1029211107a-1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1635556776)
That made for some cold showers and head scratching until i broke the stat apart.
Mike, I saw something similar on Monday. I was looking at a customer's gate opener looking for a "learn" button to program a remote controller. The gate opener has some deck of card sized controllers plugged into it labelled "open", "close" and "middle". Not sure how it works but there was a spare laying on the bottom of the box. There were a couple of ants crawling on it. So I picked it up and brushed them off. Then a couple more appeared and I saw them coming out of it. I quickly dropped it back in the cabinet and a horde of ants came out almost completely covering the spare controller!
I had a boss one time who showed me a 1" square piece of tightly woven copper mesh wire and said that was basis the original computer computer systems so when a bug got into the system he'd short circuit that section of the copper mesh and mess up the program hence the name for a "computer bug" came from an actual bug crawling into the circuits. They'd have to open the computer and find where the bug was on the mesh, blow him out and possibly replace any damaged wiring where arcing had damaged the works. I think the one inch square piece of copper mesh was one bit of memory at the time.
Mike,
Thanks for the inspiration for today's topic.
Did you know wildlife often causes power outages? The most common problems in America are caused by squirrels and snakes crawling up the poles and crossing the lines. In Africa elephants are bad about rubbing against the power poles and often push them over knocking out the power. One technique used to keep them away from them was to make a circle of stones around the poles that hurt the elephant's feet when they step on them so they avoid the poles. Here is a link to a buzzard that lit on the power lines about 1.5 miles from my house and was still smoking when I came by and took the picture.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=112275.msg1760917#msg1760917
This probably should be over in the food thread but the way I heard it was outdoors too. Did you know "Hush puppies" or as some old timers called them "Fried dough" were supposedly invented by southerners hunting and fishing and at the end of the day they would dip their fish in cornmeal and fry them for dinner. After they finished cooking their fish the hunting dogs with them would be howling and wanted to be fed so they would add a little water to the left-over corn meal and fry it in the hot fish grease and throw it to the dogs and tell them "Hush Puppies". I guess it looked pretty good and they tasted it and decided it tasted pretty good so they started improving on it by doing things like maybe adding an egg or two to the batter and a little flour to thicken and help it hold together then started flavoring with a little minced onion and maybe adding some beer for leavening or such. (I was never real clear where they got the beer from as all the associates I knew were teetotalers. :D)
Anyway, traditionally hushpuppies were made from the left-over corn meal used to coat the fish and fried in the fish grease.
I will say this about the temp controller... Those ants were a blessing. I destroyed that one just to see how it worked once it tested dead, then found the ants who prevented contacts from fully closing which arc'd them to death. When it did work it had about a 5 volt drop from input to output, which in hindsight, killed the element and a specialty breaker that was tough to find, all within a few days.
So i go in my waterheatery junk bin and theres the same model controller.. Hmm. Free is for me, im tired of 30-50 mile trips over this mess. Clip back a little plastic to expose the contacts and theyre "shot" the same way. Thats why it was free right?
File them nice and shiny and flat, tape it up antproof and install. No voltage drop and my wimpy water heater now boils me red. I love hot showers and cant stand max temp on it now. It used to run out after 10 minutes then wait 30. Now we are back to back showers as long and hot as ya want. That 5v drop made it so the element couldnt heat at the flow rate during use.
My FIL made Captain Ahab look like a weekend fisherman. If you went out with him you were not coming back empty handed. You might not be coming back. When her older brother was courting he brought home a likely candidate to meet the family. A large seafood dinner was spread and as my wife's mother pointed and identified everything for the girl she got to the hushpuppies and the girl asked "Who caught them?". I only heard the story, never got to meet her.
I never got to meet her; that's hilarious 👍
You story reminds me one of my wife's students who was a real close friend of the entire family came to eat with us and brought his girlfriend, later who became his wife. I don't remember what we were having but the girl asked for the jelly or catsup or steak sauce or such and my wife told her it was in the fridge and she could just go ahead get it out. She opened the fridge and asked where it was and my wife told her "Just move those squirrels and the groundhog out of the way and I think it is behind them." I don't think she ever came back to eat with us again.
I think I have told this but when I was real little we went fishing with my Dad and Uncle on Governor Hill Lake in Dixie County in Central Fla. The fish were not biting so Dad said the way to make them bite was to pee in the lake so he did and it worked (or we moved to a better spot or something). When we got to the landing 2 old ladies were fishing with long cane poles typically used down there (20' plus length cane poles were real commonly used in the area). We asked them if they were catching anything and they said no so we told them they needed to pee in the lake to make them start biting. Dad was very embarrassed and apologized but they just laughed. I never did find out if they made the fish start biting.
Your wife is the kind of mom that I WISH I would've had growing up. My mom would ruin any piece of wild game brought into the house. BUT, it's the reason that I can cook & process game so well. Who woulda thunk.
Speaking of which, I gotta go cook now for me and da missuz :-*
Todd,
I think your mom and mine watched the same cooking shows and had the same home ec teacher growing up. I always took my wild game, mostly squirrels and rabbits in those days, to various neighbors or to my old mentor. Mom had no idea how to cook wild game - and not a lot of domestic meat if the truth be told. I can still remember Dad stirring the pot when he'd refer to dinner as "burnt offerings." It was not the smartest thing he ever said.
We got invited to Thanksgiving dinner with a couple when we were working on the road. It was, different. The smoke alarm would go off and he'd say "Turkey's ready". The air cleared and a few minutes later the alarm "Rolls are ready". Between courses we heard the oven door open, something being slid out and then a crash as the pie hit the floor. "So, how about some after dinner drinks". I suspect they were better than the pie. It was worth gnawing jerky for the comedy on the way home :D.
Was it the Griswold's house?
(I typed this already this morning and lost it due to a lost connection so I'll try again).
Did you know that most catfish are actually more of a predator fish than a scavenger? (Remember the old joke - What's the difference between a lawyer and a catfish? One is a scum sucking bottom dweller and the other is a fish.) While people think catfish hang out on the bottom of the river/lake wating on a dead fish, animal or plant debris to float by they are often more likely to be attacking a school of forage fish. Flathead catfish will almost never bite a cut bait or cheese bait or such and if you are targeting them you better be using an active, live bait such as a shiner, goldfish, shad or bream. They will also hit a smaller catfish but remember "smaller" is a relative term. I spotted a 9 lb flathead in the Flint River near Albany Ga on my trotline against a sand bottom, eased the net down, eased the line up and netted him then he turned loose of the 1 lb channel cat on my hook. He had swallowed and completely skinned it but had not gotten hooked. My son once wrestled a big flathead on a limbline with me here on the New River in WV for several seconds then it turned loose of the 5 lb catfish it had swallowed but not gotten hooked. FWIW - it takes a big catfish to swallow a 5 lb catfish!
Bass and crappie fishermen often catch a big catfish on a live bait imitating lure when fishing for bass or crappie. I watched Bill Dance on an episode where he caught a 40 lb flathead on a spinnerbait while fishing for bass.
While crappie fishing with my son and granddaughters in a treetop on the Bluestone River near here he hooked a 3/4 lb crappie on a 10' fiberglass crappie pole. The fish wrapped around a limb near the surface and he was holding tension hoping the fish would unwind itself. Suddenly there was a loud, commode flushing swirl and the crappie disappeared into the maw of a 25 lb flathead catfish. My son gave him slack but when he applied pressure there was nothing he could do with a 12 lb line and a #2 wire crappie hook.
I use small bream on my limblines and routinely catch large channel, blue and flathead catfish near the surface along the banks. My favorite spots are fallen tree tops that provide structure for bluegills and crappie and the big catfish are feeding on them in that thick brush. I lose a few hooks but catch big fish so if you are fishing for catfish forget the chicken livers and cut bait and use active live bream, shiners, shad or goldfish.
Did you know a North American opossum will play dead to escape a predator it cannot otherwise escape from? It will "sull up" with its mouth open and eyes shut and when you touch it, it will just sort of grimace but will not move. When the predator leaves the possum will wait a while then get up and walk away. A hog nosed snake will use the same tactic.
Did you know you can readily spot deer trails on the side of a steep mountain or hillside after a snow? When the snow starts to melt the snow laying on an angled slope catches the sun and melts first. The snow on the flatter trails catches less sun and lasts longer. Once most of the snow has melted you can look up and see little white fingers of snow all over the hillside that are the deer trails.
I caught a perch but as i lifted it out of the water a bass caught it. When I got it reeled in and lifted up over the canoe they both fell off the hook in the canoe.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/IMG_6799.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1246494631)
So when you fillet that out and bake it, will you have a "Berch" or a "Pass"? Inquiring minds and all that....
Apparently it was a "Pass" because I put them back in the river.
Hilltop,
I once spotted a big northern pickerel (What we always called a Jackfish in N. Fla) in a big gravel lake (a borrow pit left after sand and gravel had been pumped out) I was fishing in. The fish was "tailwalking" and shaking his head like a bass does. I sculled (a lost art allowing the fisherman to propel the boat through the water with one oar leaving the other free to fish) the boat over to check it out. Often a fish will hit a lure and break the line and act like that trying to throw the lure. When I got to it the pickerel was on the surface and I scooped him up in my dip net. When I examined him I found he had swallowed a crappie weighing approximately one pound. He could not swallow the crappie and the crappie had spread its fins and the fish could not regurgitate it either. The pickerel was on his last leg so I gave him last rites and took him home to dinner. A little bony but pretty tasty.
Did you know that when many maple leaves turn yellow in the Fall of the year in WV many of them will have little spots or splashes of red on them? I think that is just to make tracking harder for our bow hunting community. ::)
Who says mother nature doesn't have a sense of humor.
We had a rabies attack here a few days ago. Henry was walking with a couple along a creek when a bobcat attacked them. Henry ran over and grabbed it by a hind leg and was going to sling it in the creek but was moving slower than the bobcat. The crazed cat bit him to the bone in the lower leg which tripped him and then it was all over him shredding. By that point Jon, you remember Jon, the original victim ran over and began pummelling the bobcat and it fell off apparently dead. At that point the focus was on getting a shredded Henry to the road which they did, scrambled everyone and helicoptered him to Bristol for sewing up his arms and legs and rabies shots. He's back home now. When the wildlife and sherriff's department went down to the creek the cat was gone, he had just been stunned. As they checked the neighborhood it had tried to enter the open door of a house earlier and had been seen chasing cattle, out of its head. The next morning a car hit a rabid bobcat on that road so they think they got it, unless there are more. Wild times on Fox Creek.
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backstory/
JJ,
If your comment is directed at me this post was conceived after seeing more maple leaves that are falling rapidly around here and noting the little red spots on some of them. If you have ever hunted much, especially bow hunted, you have no doubt had the occasion to trail a wounded deer. Often you are trailing with just tiny drops of red blood to indicate the trail. Sometimes you get lucky if you can follow those little blood drops long enough to find the frequency and amount of blood increases. Just following the trail will often point the direction the deer was headed and you can sometimes find the dead or wounded deer in a brushpile or thicket or such. I often tear off small pieces of toilet paper to mark the tiny blood drops and eventually a direction and possible destination reveals itself. What is frustration when the trail is small (sometimes an intestine or such shifts and blocks the entrance/exit holes and the trail stops or slows significantly but the animal is mortally wounded and just bleeding internally. Any ethical hunter will do everything possible to recover the animal. Those little red dots on the yellow maple leaves look just like the spots of blood you are looking for and it really makes the search that much more difficult.
Don,
Your tale reminds me my dad worked at a papermill and was in a car pool. One night they were going to or returning from work and the driver hit a bobcat. They stopped to inspect the cat and Dad picked it up by the hind legs to see how big it was. Evidently the cat had just been knocked out and he came to so Dad put his foot on his neck, stretched it out and yelled for someone to grab a tire tool or lug wrench and kill it as he could not even safely turn it loose. One of the members of the carpool was named Sam. Sam was always a nervous type anyway and when the cat came to he yelled "Eeek, Eeek" and jumped back in the car and locked all the doors. The keys to the car were in the ignition and they could not get into the trunk to get a tire tool. Someone finally found a limb or fencepost or such and knocked the cat in the head before he shredded Dad's legs.
My one maternal uncle was a big coonhunter and outdoorsman and was driving down a dirt road and encountered a half-grown bobcat which was blinded by the car lights. Uncle Donald left the high beams on and got out and sneaked around behind the bobcat and successfully caught it. He said he would never try to catch another one! :D
I won't ever try to pet one of those kittys lol , because of Ron Scott's encounter.
That is hilarious, sounds like you had a very energetic and interesting uncle.
Did you know that wood ducks feeding in the Escambia River swamps of North Fla would gorge themselves on large water oak acorns to the point they literally could not swallow another one? We used to shoot them on their way back to the roost in the evening and they would be so full of acorns they would be lined up up like marbles in a row all the way from the tip of his beak all the way down to his stomach. There was no way he could swallow another one until he digested one he had already swallowed earlier.
Another important food for wood ducks are the drupe fruits from the Tupelo's.
Quote from: HemlockKing on November 05, 2021, 07:07:30 AM
I won't ever try to pet one of those kittys lol , because of Ron Scott's encounter.
That is hilarious, sounds like you had a very energetic and interesting uncle.
Don't worry HemlockKing, over here in Canada we just pick those big kittys up and give them a good talking to.
Northern B.C. man scolds lynx for attacking his chickens - Feb. 22, 2021 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-ALUkXV4JQ)
Quote from: Hilltop366 on November 05, 2021, 09:08:14 AM
Quote from: HemlockKing on November 05, 2021, 07:07:30 AM
I won't ever try to pet one of those kittys lol , because of Ron Scott's encounter.
That is hilarious, sounds like you had a very energetic and interesting uncle.
Don't worry HemlockKing, over here in Canada we just pick those big kittys up and give them a good talking to.
Northern B.C. man scolds lynx for attacking his chickens - Feb. 22, 2021 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-ALUkXV4JQ)
Just make sure to pick it up and talk down to it in a scolding manner! lol
Well, small world. I found out today it was the farm hand at the museum's wife that hit the bobcat the next morning.
Did you know it is the start of the whitetail rut in WV and many surrounding states? For the next few weeks it is a good time to sit in a deer stand watching a well used deer trail, especially ones with plenty of well used, active scrapes. It is also the time to be very careful when driving through or near the woods and fields because those big old bucks are acting stupid and chasing the does day and night. This is the peak time for deer/car accidents because they frequently run right across busy highways and they never look before they cross.
Did you know that turkeys will gobble in the Fall and Winter sometimes and not just in the Spring during mating season? I had a big jake or young gobbler (4-5 inch beard) come by my shooting house a week or so back and a few minutes later I heard him gobble behind me.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2823~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1636286950)
Later he and his 2 larger (8" beards) buddies came by.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2821~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1636287002)
Several years ago I scared a flock of 6 big gobblers off the roost over my climbing tree stand on the first day of rifle season in late November. They gobbled 7-8 times till they finally all reassembled.
Turkeys are interesting and wiley creatures. I hunted them hard years back and learned up on quite a bit of their behavior.. In the fall, tryings 'pack up' that is both males and females get together in small 'herds' of around a dozen or so and work their way through the browsing day as a group. If the group becomes separated, either by wandering or disturbance, the males, or head male, will gobble to let them know where to re-assemble. Females will either remain quiet or make a few 'putts' in response. A common fall hunting method is to locate a flock and scatter them just enough that they move out in different directions. Find a spot to sit and observe the area, then wait until it clams down and eventually they male will start calling the flock back in when he decides it is 'safe'. The hunter can then pick the bird he wants as they come in, and is not shooting into a pack.
In the spring, males gobble for two reason's as far as I have observed. First, they gobble to let the females know where they are so they can come an admire what a great looking studly bearded specimen they are and perhaps 'get chummy' with it. Seeing the mating displays the male puts on are pretty cool, I have seen a few. The other reason is to let others know that a male is claiming and area and warning other 'competitors' to find a different place to pick up chicks. They can get very defensive and aggressive in this regard and will often reply to other species just to make the presence be known. In the spring I would walk my hunting pot in the evening around sunset and every hudred yards or so I'd let go with an owl call. The turkeys would gobble right back from up in the roost. This allowed me to mark the areas where the turkeys would be roosted for the night. The night morning I could return and find a spot to sit before it got light, then have my way when they flew down from the roost. I have even had turkeys respond to squirrel calls this way.
Neat birds with extremely keen eyesight, but they fly like drunken sailors. :D
Around here this time of year the hens hang out in separate groups but may have a few young jakes with them. The older jakes and mature gobblers hang out in separate bachelor groups. Occasionally the two groups will meet at a common feeding area but don't seem to socialize and separate again. Yes, if scattered they will call to reassemble. The old lead hen calls her group together. Old timers used to shoot the old hen and would call up every one of the young ones and shoot them one by one.
The bachelor group I scattered also called and reassembled. One gobbler was right below me and gobbled 5-6 times. Finally the other 5 came back in a line and I thought they were going to tie up for a fight but the bird below me thought better of it quickly and went to the end of the line where his pecking order dictated. I went up to saw wood for a guy 8 miles up the road and we drove around a big hay field and cut off a group of 8-10 big gobblers trying to get to the woodline.
Another funny thing is in the spring when 2 or more gobblers are together if you shoot the lead gobbler often instead of flying off as expected the other gobbler(s) will jump on the flopping leader. Evidently he has already whipped them all and now in they are quick to take advantage of his moment of weakness.
It's a turkey eat turkey world.
lol
I have 50 or more coming in to where I feed cattle now and the gobblers have been strutting, fighting and acting like it is spring for a month. Dumb things make a helluva mess and aggravate me to no end.
I think any time you have a warm sunny day in the winter the gobblers will occasionally strut (MY calls it "Fuzzing Out") and show their stuff.
Tom mentioned "Owling" to locate them and that is the most common way to to find a gobbler on the roost in the spring just before daylight but after daylight other calls such as a wood hen (Pileated Woodpecker), crow, hawk or coyote will also work. They will even gobble at a car horn or cow mooing sometimes.
We had a Catholic retreat a mile down the road and they would ring a bell every morning at 6:00 am, I guess to wake the monks up or call them to prayer or such, and it would set every gobbler in hearing distance to gobbling on the roost. Gobblers will also gobble when they fly up on their roost at dark and that was an old timers trick to locate them. When the moon is full they will sometimes gobble all night at it and Springtime thunder will have the woods shaking with turkeys gobbling up along Bluestone Lake where I fish.
Looking outside at a heavy frost reminds me, Did you know wild persimmons are supposed to taste better after the first frost? I assume that is because once the frost hits all remaining fruit stops growing and continues to ripen. Persimmons and grapes, like dates, are so high in sugar they just about never rot and just dry up on the tree/vine and you will find very tasty ripe fruit on the tree weeks after all the leaves have fallen off.
It was always a standing joke to find a tree of ripening persimmons and eat several good ripe one while a newcomer friend watched. When he got brave enough to try one we'd give him one that was about half green and watch him bite into it. He could not swallow, talk or whistle for several minutes while he tried to get the thick coating of persimmon off the roof of his mouth. It is like painting the roof of your mouth with dry, sticky powder.
Did you know that typically the fletching on an arrow has one "feather" that is a different color? This is called the "cock" feather and the arrow is tuned so the cock feather is directly opposite the bow. The purpose is to make sure the arrow passes cleanly beside the bow when shot and the fletching does not hit the bow and deflect the flight of the arrow.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 09, 2021, 09:36:51 AM
Did you know that typically the fletching on an arrow has one "feather" that is a different color? This is called the "cock" feather and the arrow is tuned so the cock feather is directly opposite the bow. The purpose is to make sure the arrow passes cleanly beside the bow when shot and the fletching does not hit the bow and deflect the flight of the arrow.
That is with traditional bows such as recurve and longbows. With modern compounds many now use a drop away rest and align the cock fletching up or with a crossbow many put the cock fletch down to keep the bolt or arrow aligned with the groove it sets in.
Good point. In any case the cock feather is tuned so the arrow is placed in a consistent position to get consistent shooting out of the bow (Compound or recurve) or crossbow.
Did you know the "arrow" in a crossbow was always traditionally called a bolt?
Did you know a chemical in deer bones has been shown to improve memory loss?
Deer Bone Extract Prevents Against Scopolamine-Induced Memory Impairment in Mice (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4312791/)
Maybe thats why when people quit hunting and start living on lattes and wheat grass they forget about unfulfilled political promises to fix the world if just given the keys to it.
Did you know deer have poor short term memories?
Years ago i wanted to study up on stalking and encountered an interesting crowd at bigwoodsbucks who are into simply finding the tracks they want by size at a field or road crossing and chasing that deer down pretty much all day until they get it. It was years ago but it stuck with me that the very successful hunter had blogged about how in 30 minutes or so of not pressuring, a deer would calm down and go to bed even after you chased him all day. So you could chase as long as you want. When you spot him afar off without being seen you just back off and he will eventually bed down, then you can advance to kill range. This wacky crowd prides themselves on being in frigid temps with only a checkered lumberjack flannel and exposed ears. And killing big bucks in their beds on foot. Some kinda maine thing i guess.
Mike,
I assume this is mostly tracking in the snow. It would be much easier to track them then and also you can see a deer half a mile away against the snow and walk right past the same deer within 50' against a bare leaf carpeted background. Other than a few who walked in and bedded down underneath me I believe every deer I ever found in its bed was in the snow.
Tracking in the snow is interesting or just evaluating bed locations is educational. I found many of the preferred bedding locations here in WV are on points on fingers/ridges. Looking at the site they make a lot of sense because the deer has better visibility from the increased elevation of the land, scents tend to be funneled up the ridges so they can smell predators a long way off and also they had multiple escape paths.
Stalking in heavy fallen snow you can approach these bedding areas from behind/above when the wind is right and the falling snow will muffle any sounds you make and you can sneak up within range of bedded deer sometimes if you are careful and lucky.
Based on scat i find bucks tend to choose home based on topography where does tend to base it on food. There are 3 places i can go go right now that will have doe beds sunk in and theyre some real "why here?" spots. When you look harder you see food water and habitat edge are all prevalent but not shelter. Just in the middle of a spot in the woods but typically near low creases as travel lanes to slink around unseen.
With bucks it is always mountain laurel. When the laurel is the only thing on the ground and you cant crawl through it, and youre on a steeeep slope.. Thats a bu k haven. But good luck getting one out.
Every time it snows i put a good 3 miles on my shoes following tracks anywhere they lead to get patterns figured out. We rarely have more than an inch and it doesnt last but a day if i have time to scout. If i dont have time itll last longer!
Did you know there are special Flu Flu arrows designed for hunting birds and such? Their fletching design is made to create more drag so the arrows do not go as far and are easier to find.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flu-flu_arrow
I confess - I am not good enough with a bow to shoot a flying bird on the wing but evidently there are people who can and they also shoot skeet and such with a bow and arrow.
Did you know modern hunting arrows are basically three to four razor blades attached to a pointed head screwed on to the end of a carbon or aluminum, rarely wood, shaft? There are modifications on some that allow the blades to fold down until they hit their target then open up and cut an impressive opening. In many cases on a well placed broadside shot at a whitetail deer the arrow will pass completely through the deer. The deer may hardly feel it and not even know it was shot. I have shot several and had them jump up run a couple of feet at the sound and stop and look around resume feeding then suddenly get rubber-legged and fall over dead. The razor blades slice trough the arteries and veins and the animal bleeds to death internally without even knowing it was shot.
I am not sure if most arrows will pass all the way through a moose, elk or caribou so maybe you guys who have shot them with a bow can chime in on that. I know I would sure like to shoot at an elk or moose just because it is a so much bigger target and should be much easier to hit. :D
WV, Since you only want to arrow a moose or elk to see how the shot goes, I'd be happy to take the meat off your hands.
Gonna need bigger mason jars to can that moose howard!
A flu-flu is also great fun for squirrels. With a simple (same diameter as the arrow shaft and no "adder") they tend to fall through the tree branches amazingly easy. With all white fletching they are quite easy to find. In fact, ALL of my arrows I have purposely fletched white. Holding still while on stand is much more important than being camouflaged, at least when it comes to a color blind animal. It's the movement that attracts attention.
As far as the cock feathers go, I tend to use the kinds of nocks with a "feeler". When I can touch it with my string hand, then I know it's correct and lines up properly. I'm old school with archery tackle and use a recurve. No compound or crossbow for me, but I grew up like this with dad starting me off when I was about 4-5. When you use traditional equipment & you make your own arrows (like I do) and if you want that feather at a 90 to the "riser" (main upright part) of the bow, use left hand fletching for a RH shooter (arrow on the left side of the bow & vise versa or LH people. I'm VERY good (or was when I was practicing twice daily) with my archery tackle. I shoot instinctively (no sights, similar to o throwing a baseball or football) so it's a game of repetition & constant practice.
Did you know that a crow has a pretty wide vocabulary? Instead of just the caw caw sound we think of them those around here spend the day making the most gosh awful squawks and such you ever heard. Every time I hear one I first think it is a great blue heron taking off. They also make a chortle sound among others. The wings make a loud whistle when they fly over and I keep checking to see if it is a flock of geese.
KEC,
I would say I'd shoot the next elk or moose I see here in WV but I better not as I read we do now have a native population of elk who waded the river from Kentucky. Not anywhere near a huntable population and not likely to be in my lifetime but nice to have them back.
Mike.
You don't know how many jars I have on hand and I do have a chest freezer. :D I think I can store him somehow but thanks for pointing that out.
Todd,
I'm not likely to be hunting squirrels with my bow. My son did shoot a big fox squirrel one time because it sat on a limb about 6' from him loudly telling the world he was there. The arrow went through and he climbed a big poplar. Sean said the thought about shooting again but noticed steady drops of blood dripping so he waited and it fell out. I leave the squirrels to tell me when a deer or such is coming.
I am way more likely to go to a crossbow than a recurve at my age.
I've been trying to befriend the crows for awhile and they do have lots of interesting calls, so far they have not friended me but are consistent scraps/garbage disposals lol the ravens are even more interesting, there is one raven call I can actually do well, when I hear a raven flying over making click sounds or weird calls I will do this call (sounds like "GUU-WAHH"), they always do a circle around to fly back over and low to see if I'm another raven, I'm sure to them I must sound like a retarded raven, but none the less gets them curious to come see
I have been involved in a project to map the breeding ranges of the birds of New York called The New York Breeding Bird Atlas III. In 2012 I found where ravens nested in a State DoT highway facility salt shed. So this year another participant and I checked out several highway dept. salt sheds/barns. We found raven nests at 3 locations. Everyone likes a roof over their head. I did some reading up on ravens, which are corvids, which are more intelligent than most birds. Like many birds, they are hostile towards threats around their nest. They have been known to pick up stones and drop them on hawks that come near their nest. As to the crows, a guy could spend a lot of time trying to earn their trust. I think some of the crows around my house know that they are somewhat safe here. A couple years ago a pair nested in a Blue Spruce in my yard 52' from the house. I have a crow food take-out behind the house where I put the mice that I trap in the garage along with other items. The crows check it out all the time and dispose of my offerings.
KEC,
We had ravens in Jeddah in Saudi Arabia and some kind of curly-cue bean tree there in our compound that provided them food and a nest site. One of my diving buddies saw one in his back yard and eased the kitchen window open, slid his spear gun out and shot one. He wounded it and it set up a real racket as he went out and finished it off and recovered his spear. From that day until the day he left Jeddah every time he went to or from his car in daylight hours he did so ducking and dodging as they never forgot or forgave him.
I found we had what I thought were ravens in Guinea in west Africa but looked them up and found they were black and white or Pied crows.
KEC, I don’t doubt they knew they were safe near your house! Very smart birds, just watch them near highways, road kill in the middle of the road and when a car comes flying up they just hop barely off the pavement and right back to the food as soon as you pass, they got it figured !
Here is a really cool raven video, can even be heard making the call I’m talking about at 40 seconds.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hfATurG-xAo (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hfATurG-xAo)
Quote from: HemlockKing on November 13, 2021, 12:54:25 AMKEC, I don't doubt they knew they were safe near your house! Very smart birds, just watch them near highways, road kill in the middle of the road and when a car comes flying up they just hop barely off the pavement and right back to the food as soon as you pass, they got it figured !
Did you hear about the study they did on them out here?
There was a large number of crows dead on the side of the road. So they took the remains to UC Davis to see what might be going on. I think they wanted to rule out Bird Flu. Anyhow, they did notice paint on their beaks and some on their toenails/talons. So they sent off samples to be tested and it turned out to be from paint used by various semi trucks manufactures.
That really confused the researchers. That prompted them to send some personnel out in the field to study the crows. They would see them gathering at road kills on the highway. There would always be a lookout bird to warn the others of danger. When a car came by, they would fly to safety. But when a semi truck came by, they didn't fly up and there would sometimes be a casualty.
Turns out, crows only can call out car, car. Their not so good at calling out semi, semi.
ljohn,
I think you need to start going to bed earlier! :D
Okay, since we are talking sentries, for today's topic: Did you know baboons put out sentries to watch for the troop while they are feeding and such? If you check the area in a tall tree, rock outpost, sometimes even on a wall, pole or fence there will be a big, male if I remember correctly, sentry. I don't know how they do their shift changes to let somebody else take over for a while. Impalas and other African antelope and such like to hang out with baboons for the extra protection they provide.
I drove tractor-trailers for 40 + years and saw plenty of crows jump back and forth from a carcass to a short distance away when a vehicle came by and they dodge the trucks as well as cars. You will rarely see an adult road-killed crow. Around June when the young leave the nest and are not yet street wise you will see some of them get hit. WV, they have proven that crows and ravens recognize individual humans and they carry a grudge against people who caused them harm. In an expiriment, a guy who crows were upset with would get harassed by the crows, but if he went out with a mask (disquise) on, the crows left him alone. Whenever crows come in to feed they case the joint and keep a sentry posted in nearby trees.
When we kept chickens the crows knew my wife's call. If she saw a hawk she would start cawing loudly and within a few moments the crows started coming just about every time. Years before that when we were having crow trouble in the sweet corn I'm pretty sure they knew me as the "bad guy". I'm convinced they knew the difference between a scoped rifle and the shotgun from 200 yards.
Did you know that gators can't count well (or at least that was my grandfather's theory)? My grandfather was a professional gator hunter (Before he became a game warden) and he would "set them up". When I asked him what that meant he said he'd "set" there till the gator came up and he'd shoot it. It would often take a long time because the gator had normally spotted him when he came up to the gator hole area. He said sometimes somebody would walk up on him while he was sitting there. The guy would apologize for messing up his hunt and walk off. Grandpa said very often as soon as the other guy walked out of sight the gator would rise out of the water and he'd shoot him.
Did you know that a squirrel or coon can survive a fall or jumping out of a very tall tree? I am sure I have seen them (squirrels) jump out of trees over 100' high and coons probably half that distance, hit the ground and run off. They do spread their legs wide to catch as much air and slow down their fall as much as possible.
When my son was about 11 years old we were living in Jacksonville NC (I was stationed at Camp LeJeune USMC Base) and I took him out behind our house squirrel hunting. He was using a pump up BB gun. I was the squirrel dog responsible for locating the squirrels and turning them to his side of the tree. I was doing a pretty fair job and he had killed 2 gray squirrels when I came up on a young water oak about 15" in diameter. It had a grapevine running up the tree and a good looking leaf nest up about 35-40 ft above ground. I told my son to get ready and I pulled on the vine. Instead of a squirrel running out it just unwound and started climbing higher and he was yelling excitedly. It was a large coon. It finally stopped so I told him to shoot it in the head. He nailed it the first shot and it dropped like a stone but hung on a limb still a good 40' above ground. I told told him "You got it but its hung so I'll climb up and get it down." I started climbing and about half way up my son started yelling "Its alive. Its alive." I told him to shoot it again and placed myself as much behind the tree as I could. For some reason, probably excitement, he could never hit it again and was zinging BBs all around me. I finally told him to stop and I'd go catch it. I climbed higher and so did the coon. It finally went out on a 1" diameter limb and I climbed up under it and reached for it. The coon peed down on me and I guess when he figured he'd shed enough weight and as I reached for him, about the time I touched fur, it jumped. Sean was waiting with a cocked, fully pumped up BB gun. When the coon hit the ground he stuck the gun in its ribs and shot then both ran out of sight and all I could hear was a loud "Whack, whack, whack" and brush and small trees were shaking. I assume Sean was beating it with his BB gun so I yelled him, "Sean, stop beating that coon with your gun!" He replied "I'm not beating him with my gun." Whack, whack, whack, whack. "I'm beating it with a stick." Whack, whack, whack.
I finally got down and got over too him and he was standing there with about a 3" diameter oak limb and a well dead coon. We took it home and I skinned it, my wife made hash out of it so our son got to eat his kill. I got some chemicals from a local taxidermist (It had a sassafras smell) and we tanned it and my wife made him a had with the tail hanging down the back and the face pulled down in front. I am sure the coon had jumped 60-70 feet. It did knock the breath out of him and Sean shot him as soon as he hit the ground. You'd have thought it would have broken every bone in his body.
We had another flying squirrel in the house last, the third in 6 months. Or the same one for a third go! It was in the bathroom upstairs. The last time we had a flying squirrel it was in the spare bedroom upstairs. I opened a window and the screen and it left out the window shortly. So I opened the bathroom window and screen and shut the door. It gone in a few minutes.
I seen a coon fall from about 30 foot onto really Stoney compact ground and then run off... just recently
I also saw a squirrel run up a telephone pole halfway(20foot ish) then jump off onto the bushes hardly more than 2 foot high. I'm sure porcupine survive very high falls too lol
OSF - Flying squirrels are much better than bats. Trust me!
HF - I never saw a live porcupine but I am surprised they can survive a fall from a great distance. Thanks for the info.
I have shot coons out of 30-40 foot heights, I think their legs are moving as they come down because they are on afterburner when they hit the ground. Not all, mind you.
Especially the ones that have been shot smiley_blue_bounce
Did you know coons will put their paws over their eyes and when they can't see you, they assume you can't see them. Small ones are especially apt to do that. Actually, it works for them in many cases when they are hiding in a tree at night and you are trying to spot their eyes when treed by a pack of dogs.
Did you know that three racoon heads suddenly popping up from behind a big fallen log at a camp site will scare the everlovin beheesus out of one of my friends-a grown man? This guy usually doesn't move that fast but when those heads came up right behind him in the darkness, he cleared the width of the camp site in about one second.
No animals or people were hurt in the making of this posting.
OK, I have probably posted this one before, but it appears to be appropriate. One of the local deputies asked if he and his "kin" could run their coon dogs on our lease, and I agreed and went with them. The lease at the time was half plantation and half old timber. We got to our camp and they turned the dogs loose. They hit immediately and took off through a plantation with the hunters, and me, right behind them. If you have not tried to navigate a 12 year old southern pine plantation at night, you have missed one of the southern hunting thrills. We followed the hounds and they treed on the edge of a pipe line, the hunters illuminated the coon up some 25 or 30 feet and told me, an honor I suppose, to shoot the coon, at the same time the 10 year old son of the deputy was told to hold on to the hounds leashes, and he did. I shot the coon out of the tree, and as I posted, he revved his motor on the way down and hit the ground on a full run, where upon the dogs took after the coon, dragging the boy behind them. The coon, dogs and boy made it about 20 -30 yards to a branch and all went for a swim. The dogs persevered and all emerged from the branch, muddy, wet and one really irritated 10 year old.
With the hunt over, the boy giving his dad what for, and coon in hand, we went back to the trucks, by way of the roads rather than the plantation.
Did you know that a coon will sometimes drown a large grown coon dog if you are not careful? If the coon gets the dog out into deep water he will get on top of the dogs head and hold his face and nose under water until he drowns him. Coon hunters used to have a "Coon on the log" contest where they would tie a grown coon out on a platform on a post is several feet of water and turn individual dogs out to go attack him. It took a very brave dog to go get the coon. I suspect most areas have outlawed this practice as cruelty to animals and prevent it.
Have you ever hunted with dogs? If you have you know that dogs have a different bark when they are chasing different kinds of animals, a different bark when they are treed, a different bark when they see their prey vs just smell it, a different bark when they are working out a cold trail vs a hot one, etc. Experienced houndsmen can tell from the bark which hound is barking and details about what it is doing as it works out the trail.
I had an old beagle one time who howled every time he took a step on a rabbit's trail and he hunted at a dead walk. ::) He would hunt for a few hours and from the racket he made strangers would think he was about to catch the rabbit. He would periodically stop, take a break, come to the house for a drink and a bite to eat and rest in the shade a while then go back and resume the "chase". We used to say he would stick up a stick where he stopped and would return to that spot after his break. I don't think he ever saw a live rabbit. One day I had been listening to him and I spotted a rabbit hop from one brier patch to another. I went in the house, got my 20 gauge Remington wingmaster pump and a couple of shells, walked to the brier patch I had seen him enter and kicked him up and shot him. I decided to just wait and it took my beagle 45 minutes to actually trail up to the dead rabbit although he howled like he was about to catch him the whole time. Finally, he actually bumped into the dead rabbit, yelped, jumped back and circled the rabbit a couple times them grabbed him in his jaws to take home. I think he was thinking "I have trailed you for years and I finally trailed you to death!" I took the rabbit from him and took it home and cleaned it and gave him the head which he carried proudly around the yard for 2 weeks till my mom finally made me take it away from him and go bury it.
One of our previous dogs was a Black and Tan coonhound, all scent hound. I've watched the rabbit backtrack right by him 5 feet off but he had to run the full circuit on his nose. The dogs we kind of inherited now are old but are a pair that grew up together, he is a beagle, all nose, she is a rhodesian ridgeback, a sighthound. They are in their rocking chair years but every now and then, its fun to watch them work.
I had a couple of beagles and a dachshund basset cross for rabbit dogs. I watched them chasing a big swamp rabbit (What we always called a reed cutter) on the other side of a creek. I watched the rabbit jump in and swim the creek to my side of the creek, he made a short circle and jumped up on the other end of the log I was standing on. He sat right there on the log and calmly watched as the dogs crossed the creek and ran within 10' of him. When they got to the point where he turned/circled back, the rabbit jumped off the log and ran back over to the creek where he had crossed and appeared ready to jump back in when I shot him with my Ruger 10/22.
Did you know there are at least 2 basic kinds of bird dogs? One like the pointers or setters locate and hold the birds at bay and the other, like spaniels, flush the birds on command for the hunter to shoot. In a perfect world the hunter would have one of each to work as a team.
My friend had a english setter that was a very good pointer, also trained to flush the bird on command.
Some say don't let them flush too because they will start to break point without you but this one would not do that however if it picked up the bird it would not bring it back, it would run off with it and bury it in a swamp. >:(
Did you know that old timers who used to hunt with a dog who would not bark much, if at all, while chasing his prey would put a bell on the dog so they could hear him coming?
Did you know that a hard pressed rabbit will sometime take shelter in a hole in a tree? My dogs got after a rabbit when the river was high and we were hunting on what was now islands and a hard pressed swamp rabbit jumped up nearly 3' high on a big blackgum to get in a hole there. He is the only rabbit I ever twisted out of a hole. It is much easier with a squirrel who has a long tail.
Did you know a sapsucker can walk down a tree headfirst? We have lots of them here around raiding my deer feeders and they nonchalantly fly from tree to tree and their toe arrangement allows them to just walk straight down a tree. Pretty neat to watch.
Pay Attention! This is real important info I'm sharing here! Did you know that when you start to open a bag of corn or horse, chicken or goat feed, you turn the bag upright so you can read the letttering on the bag and the paper tag sewed into the seam is on the top then start unraveling the string at the opposite end of the bag from the tag? Some people cut off the excess string there but really it is not necessary. Pick a couple loops free and grab one end of the string in both hands and pull them apart and the thread will start to separate. You can partially open the bag if you want to leave a spot or unzip it all if you want to completely open the bag. When done you still have the completely intact nylon, or burlap if anyone still uses it, bag got other use. Opposite end from the tag - remember! :D
Or you can do like my wife and just rip the bag open to get tpo the feed and tear up the bag. ::)
my wifes friend Mary sews, and makes bags for shopping with the good bags. look for bags with neat pictures of a popular product.
I grew up wearing "Momma made" chicken feed sack shirts, and was proud of them. 8)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/90260F83-A331-4D05-8E96-DBAB64330A96.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1637681122)
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Mary was a home ec teacher who became a pharmacist and works with my wife. she finishes many of my wifes projects. she cannot stand to watch. she would share a pattern (if she has or uses one) if anyone is interested. my wife takes them to stores and does not use the plastic.
Lynn,
When I was a kid there is no telling how many tons of cow feed I had to move to get 2 matching feed sacks. Mama could make a dress out of 2 - 100 lb cow feed sacks while one only made a shirt. They were nice printed cotton sacks but there were never 2 matching ones together. She would like one but the mate to it was always on the bottom of the stack of 25-30 100 lb sacks of feed.
Back then a 25 lb sack of flour came in a white pillowcase sewed around the flour with the excess just flopping loose. T think there may have even been a printed border at the top/opening.
I forget what the dishtowels came in but some sort of flour or meal had a dish cloth sewed into the seam. We were always careful to save the string as that was our replacement yoyo strings. I guess the wealthy kids used a piece of kite string but we never had that and the feedsack string was the closest we ever got.
My wife has several of her mom's quilts and they still have the name of the company and identify them as "Hog Feed". We always had burlap sacks that the sweet feed came in to use for tote sacks and possum catching sacks.
You also need those sacks for snipe hunts.
Danny,
Only when poaching them. Us legal snipe hunters ... Well, never mind. :D
Never poached a snipe. Poached an egg, but never a single snipe.
For those of you who have feeders a long way off the road and have to carry corn to them, did you know a method that will make your task easier is to pour half your bag of corn into another empty bag then tie the ends together? When you do this you have created a quick and dirty "saddlebag" that you can throw over your shoulder with roughly equal amounts of weight on the front and back. It is much easier to carry that way. Try it some time.
Did you know that many, if not most, predators will readily steal a meal from another predator if they get the chance? That is why a predator call typically sounds like a dying rabbit or sometimes an injured fawn. Predators think another predator such as a fox or bobcat have caught a rabbit or fawn and they rush in to steal it from them. Coyotes, bobcats, foxes, wolves, bears, mountain lions, and even African big cats, have been known to come to the sound of a dying rabbit they thought was caught by another predator. I even called and killed an old whitetail doe that came to the sound of my predator call. I don't know if she thought it was an injured fawn or what.
Remember to be careful where you set up when you use a predator call because being attacked by a fox or bobcat who thought you were a sick rabbit can be painful but being attacked by a bear, wolf, or mountain lion can be fatal.
Years ago my brother was in a 'Varmint calling Club' (yes, apparently it's a thing) in Colorado. He was out one night and it was really cold and he was calling from his truck cab hoping to get some sightings or photos, I think. He had his window rolled down far enough that he could call and hear anything coming. He used a wounded rabbit call for a while and 'thought' he heard something very faint. He started to reach for his spot light and swung it around but before he could hit the trigger this big paw came flying in through the open window swatting at him. When he collected himself a little and was leaning way over on the passenger seat to avoid the swatting that continued he realized it was a mountain loins arm and that cat meant to collect dinner. He reached under the swings and slowly cranked the window up, the further he got the window up, the less reach the cat had. Eventually he got it up enough to pinch the cats arm and he (the cat) didn't like that much. SO he gave it a good crank and the cat hollered, then he let off and the cat withdrew and he closed it all the way but for an air crack. That cat walked around his truck looking for a way to get at that rabbit for nearly 10 minutes before it gave up.
From what I recall, he changed his calling habits after that. ;D
I read a story once in an outdoor magazine where the Burnham Brothers went to Africa and tested their calls. I think they were one of the main early call makers. They found the calls worked well over there too when they nearly got eaten pretty quickly by lions and/or leopards and such.
I wonder what your brother's mountain lion thought about the rabbit that attacked him? :D Glad he got out okay. I read one tail where a bear responded and the caller jumped up and started yelling but it refused to stop and he shot it with his .243. He reported it to DNR as bears were not legal game in his state and I think they accepted his story and let him go with nothing else said about it. I don't remember who got the bear.
My BIL in Alaska says lots of the residents up there buy a $10 bear stamp even though they have no plans to hunt them. If you have a stamp and have to shoot one in self defense you can report it and keep it but if not you have to report it but cannot keep the hide and/or meat.
I've done some calling where I went out specifically to call foxes and coyotes with some success and then there were times that I saw a critter and lip squeaked to imitate an animal in distress to see the response. I had a mink come in at a dead run to within ~6'. One Great-horned Owl flew in on a course straight at my face and landed in the tree I was in just beyond arms reach, looked at me as to say "yuck!" and flew off. On 3 occaisions I had Long-eared Owls respond with 2 that nearly struck my head. Gray Foxes are very bold and will about jump in your lap. Each time you wish you had someone to share the experiece and vouch for you. A cheap diaphram turkey call makes a good predator call to imitate a canine pup in distress. No batteries needed.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 25, 2021, 06:43:41 PM
I read a story once in an outdoor magazine where the Burnham Brothers went to Africa and tested their calls. I think they were one of the main early call makers. They found the calls worked well over there too when they nearly got eaten pretty quickly by lions and/or leopards and such.
I wonder what your brother's mountain lion thought about the rabbit that attacked him? :D Glad he got out okay. I read one tail where a bear responded and the caller jumped up and started yelling but it refused to stop and he shot it with his .243. He reported it to DNR as bears were not legal game in his state and I think they accepted his story and let him go with nothing else said about it. I don't remember who got the bear.
My BIL in Alaska says lots of the residents up there buy a $10 bear stamp even though they have no plans to hunt them. If you have a stamp and have to shoot one in self defense you can report it and keep it but if not you have to report it but cannot keep the hide and/or meat.
Have you ever tried eating black bear? Hear good about it never tried myself. None the less I'd like to try it once at least and harvest the hide/good fireplace mat
HK,
The only bear I ever ate was some stew from one somebody gave us. It was not very good but may have just been the way it was fixed. I watch these shows about people up in Alaska and they seem to swear by a young black bear. My BIL up there says many of the folks there don't eat the Grizzlies especially where they have been feeding on Salmon. He says they have a fishy taste.
I won't shoot one on my place because I don't want the meat and have it posted so others can't either. I'm not opposed to people bear hunting if they are going to use the meat and now WV law requires all edible parts of a deer, turkey or bear to be harvested. I think it is a good law.
Did you know that there are other native North American plants that cause itching in some people besides Poison Ivy, Poison Oak and Poison Sumac (Which are all Rhus genus and have 3 leaf plants)? Another couple of common ones are Cow itch vines or trumpet vine /Trumpet creeper (Campsis radicans) and even Carolina jasamine (Gelsemiun sempervirens). They can both cause a rash similar to poison ivy toxicity. Both of these are also commonly grown as ornamental plants. The trumpet creeper has pretty orange flowers hummingbirds like and can be trained on a trellis or such to make nice shaded arches and such.
I have not known Poison Sumac to be a 3 leaf plant: LINK (https://www.thespruce.com/poison-sumac-plant-identification-description-2132619)
Ooops! Obviously it is not a common plant around here or I'd be more current on my recollections. Thanks for the catch, MM. Still Rhus. Still poison. More than 3 leaves.
Mango fruit skin can in some people, I think I remember that some are sensitive to the skin of pawpaws?
Years ago, a friend shot a bear in the Adirondacks. He field dressed it right away and it stayed cold until he got it home. He was going to toss the meat so I took it to my house and boned it out into mostly stew meat and roasts. Gave some to him and another friend. I made a big crock pot full of stew and took it to a family Christmas party. Everyone who tried it said it was good, including my father who was a hard man to please. We can legally take bear here where I live, though they are only occaisionally seen. If the opportunity presented itself, I'd take it. I've heard that grizzlies have some huge roundworm parasites in the flesh that pretty much spoil peoples' appetite for eating them.
According to this clip as I remember Daniel Boone used to be pretty popular for his bear bacon. I am sure a properly dressed, butchered and cooked bear would be very good. I prefer herbivores to omnivores if the truth be told.
The Best Bacon Story Ever - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF1uQ57p1hU)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 26, 2021, 09:48:24 PMI prefer herbivores to omnivores if the truth be told.
But a hog is very omnivores and will eat anything that is in front of it's snout. May not can catch and kill it, but it certainly will eat it.
Well, technically I guess that is correct and if we pushed it far enough a chicken will also pretty much eat anything it can choke down. A bear is much more of a carnivore than a herbivore given the chance. I do love my pork though. ;)
Speaking of the predator calls; I was coyote hunting and using a turkey mouth diaphragm call, that way the sounds that you make while slipping around (because you & turkeys both are walking on 2 legs) aren't suspicious of the sound. It's a good plan because once I collected a nice one that was just laying there and sunning it's self and it heard me and the purrs and thought that an easy lunch was coming to it. It's the last "free" meal that it ever thought about. It let me get to within in 25yds and it got a face full of 10ga turkey load then proceeded to roll about 5yds away from me due to the impact. THAT was a fun day with dad about 15yr ago. We both laughed like we were insane that day. ;) ;D!
Quote from: Magicman on November 26, 2021, 10:08:43 PM
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 26, 2021, 09:48:24 PMI prefer herbivores to omnivores if the truth be told.
But a hog is very omnivores and will eat anything that is in front of it's snout. May not can catch and kill it, but it certainly will eat it.
Killed a big boar hog way back in the woods, one of those kill that thing situations, took the head for the teeth and left the rest. We tried to field dress it, the smell and distance to the truck was too great. Several days later we were back in the deep woods an found the hog, my estimate over 300 pound, was only the hide and very few bones. Evidence of hog and coyote feasting on the remains. They eat their own as well.
Had a bluejay pecking on a dead mouse yesterday, it mostly pecked at the head, perhaps it was a zombie bluejay.
Remember a bluejay is a first cousin to a crow, magpie and raven. All in the same birdy (Corvidae ) family.
We have mentioned them but never talked about them in detail so I'll talk a bit about deer feeders. Did you know the primary purpose of a deer feeder is to attract deer to a specific area where a hunter can harvest them? A major advantage to them is besides putting out feed they can be used to help encourage the deer to come as a specific time.
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My typical deer feeder set up in WV.
There are several types of deer feeders. A typical feeder is a plastic case with a timer placed at the bottom of a container, usually a bucket or barrel, filled with feed. The timer can be electronic or manual with setting for the time when the feeder will go off and for how long and with how much force. Some I have had even had a calendar option where I could set it for specific days of the week. (I never used that option - I know deer can learn approximate times the feeder will go off but I doubt they really keep up with the day of the week. ::)) Some feeders have photocells and go off based on daylight and sunset times/light. Some have little pins that you can set and the timer trips and goes off as a little "clock" hand passes the pin. My feeders have had settings so they would run from 1 to 30 seconds to control the amount of feed distributed.
On the top of the feeder is a little spinner which is just a plate hooked to a little, normally 6v, battery. The feed gravity feeds out of the storage container above through a small hole on to the plate about 1/2" to 3/4" below. The feed trickles down and stops until the timer goes off and spins the feed off for the duration set. The height and speed of the feeder determine how far the feed is scattered. Batteries need to be changed regularly unless they are hooked to a solar charger which is a common practice and a good idea as the less you have to tend a feeder the less foreign smell you leave which is also a good reason for a larger hopper/storage container. My current feeders are made by Moiultrie and have a fitting on the bottom of the barrel so I can simply twist counter clockwise to remove it at the end of the season and I leave the barrels there all summer till I set them back up in the Fall.
The most commonly used feed in a feeder is whole kernel corn but they should work with any similar sized grain or pellets should work. I'd think shelled soybeans, shelled peanuts, dry dog feed, etc should work as long as it stays dry and does not swell and stop up the feeder hole. Deer corn is supposed to be cleaner and sells for a higher price but I suspect it is the same corn in a different bag. You would be ahead of the game to strain or winnow the feed to remove any foreign debris which might fall into and stop up the spinner plate.
Other type of feeders are simply gravity containers that drop feed down as it is removed. A common type here is made from 4" to 6" PVC pipe 3'-4' long with a 45* fitting on the bottom with a cap dry fitted on the bottom of the fitting and on the top. It it tied vertically to a tree or such with the fitting end down and filled with corn from the top. As the feed is eaten out of the open end of the 45* fitting, more feed falls down to replace it. I think in Texas and such 55 gallon drums on tripods are set up to feed deer and wild hogs and such.
I set my feeders, as shown in the picture, on a cable between 2 trees. I attach a boat trailer type winch to a convenient tree to raise and lower the feeder to service it. The white or clear plastic barrels are good because you can see the level of the feed and tell when to add more. I set mine to feed about half an hour after sunrise and an hour or so before sunset and run them 4 seconds at a feeding to throw about 1 lb of corn per feeding.
Placing them on a cable between 2 trees allows me to keep them far enough away the bears can't tear them down. I have had squirrels and coons gnaw through the plastic so now put the metal flashing on top to discourage them. I had a fox squirrel chew through one and duct taped the hole closed and sprayed the top with WD40. The next day I saw the squirrel climb up and jump over to the barrel, scramble wildly when he had no traction and fell to the ground. I nearly fell out of my stand laughing at him. I keep a slingshoot a shot in my stands to chase off the doves and once a bear who found she could climb a nearby hickory and reach my feeder. Anybody else out there who ever shot a bear in the butt with a marble? :D
Woodpeckers and other small birds come steal corn out of the spinner but it is a small amount and I don't worry about it. They knock out more than they steal and ensure small amounts are there at off hours. I am sure they get surprised if feeding with the timer sets off the spinner. Squirrels, chipmunks, and coons come get a little feed but are not a big problem. Turkeys and doves will eat up the entire feeding before deer arrive if not chased off.
I've never done it or seen it done but there is no reason the feeders could not be used to attract songbirds around your home. They could also be set up to feed livestock, poultry or pets if someone wanted to do so. A shroud and/or funnel could be attached to drop feed into a pan or trough if you wanted to feed goats, poultry or dogs if in an area that was dry enough.
Feeders should only be used where legal. Some states say you must remove them 2 weeks before hunting the area. WV did not allow them when I moved her 31+ years ago but changed their regs 6-7 years ago to allow them on private land. Some game, such as turkeys and bear cannot be killed here over feeders.
Did you know squirrels eat pine cones or at least the seeds in them? We think of squirrels eating acorns, walnuts, hickory nuts, and other nuts but squirrels will also readily eat the seeds in various pine cones. In many cases under a big pine tree you will see large mounds of pine cone scales, the little tightly packed pieces that make up the cone. They are connected at the core of the pine cone and overlap sort of like an artichoke heart and when ripe they open and spread out and the seeds fall out. The squirrels cut the scales loose at the base/core and eat the seeds leaving behind a pile of light colored scales and completely stripped pine cone cores. I have seen these piles a foot high and several feet in diameter around a cone loaded pine tree.
Pine squirrels, called Fairydiddles here in WV, primary food in many cases is pine nuts.
I've also seen our local grey's eat them when the season was off for the other preferred food. I also know that early spring season tree rats taste a little "unique" because of this. I much prefer the taste of the fall taken ones.
Did you know the fish many people first start on and many never give up on are called Bream (Pronounced Brim) in the south? They are assorted small sunfish. Many only weigh a few ounces and one over a pound is considered a trophy fish by many people. They include some with funny names like Bluegills, shellcrackers, stumpknockers, coon-bream, redbellies, etc. They are readily caught on crickets, small worms, waxworms, catalpa worms, mealworms and various artificial baits such as small spinners, jigs and flies and cork "popping" bugs. They are often caught on straight cane or fiberglass poles with a bobber, small hook and a BB sized sinker. They are caught on fly rods and ultra-light tackle. Most of the fish feed on insects, small minnows, crawfish, and even mussels (in the case of shellcrackers who have a special device to grind open the shell).
They are very tasty fish and great fun to catch. For their size they are very hard fighting fish and can make your line sing and really put a bow in a fly rod or ultra-light rod. There is nothing I can think of more fun than taking a kid fishing and watching him/her jerk a bunch of bream out of a farm pond, public reservoir or stream.
Some people cut small fillets off their bream but we always fried them whole. We'd roll or coat them in a cornmeal, some people use a commercial bread crumb coating, and fry them in oil. To eat a whole fried bream you first pull the row of bones along the backbone (the dorsal fin) out then take your thumb and slide the meat off one side with your thumb, flip him over and repeat on the other side then slide the meat off the tail section. When finished you will have a bare skeleton like you used to see the cartoon cats pulling out of a trash can.
The left over corn meal was typically used to make hushpuppies which were then fried in the fish grease. Some people fried sliced potatoes in the same grease to help clarify it too. In the deep South part of Florida grits and sometimes swamp cabbage also were served as side dishes.
Occasionally someone would swallow or get a small bone stuck in their throat which actually can be serious. The technique we used to clear it often involved eating/swallowing a rolled up piece of bread. Maybe our resident medical experts can offer other/better methods.
we do an x-ray to see if we see a bone there. often a scratch from the bone will feel like a bone still stuck there. most make their way on down. the lore is to eat bread, but by the time you get to us, we are usually past that. It is rare (never seen it) to actually choke (not be able to breath) on a fish bone. the most common thing stuck in an esophagus, is a big chunk of meat not properly chewed, in someone with a stricture. some people get this in public settings more than at home. prob. some spasm from social anxiety. may go to OR to look with a scope, but often nothing there.
Thanks Doc. Yeah, most of the time as I remember the small flexible bones I am talking about don't stop your breathing but they irritate you so you do cough a lot trying to dislodge them. The bread often seems to clear the object.
This is one real old timers used to like to catch an eel. They could feed it to the kids with no worries about any small bones for the kids to choke on.
I know its just a hot dog that delivers but I think I prefer living dangerously.
Don,
???
After reading that last statement a couple of times I think one of us is losing his mind - and I feel pretty normal if the truth be told. :D Am I missing something? Did you choke on a hot dog and have a blackout or something?
How do you hook your minnow or other live bait? I have used several techniques to keep them alive as long as possible. Crappie are notorious for not eating a dead minnow. I like to hook them through both lips with a thin wire hook (usually #2). My next preferred method is to hook them through the eye socket. I push the hook completely through just in front of the eyeball. This way I do not puncture the eyeball. This is the technique I use to hook live bream on by bushhooks/limblines for catfish. The last preferred method I use is to hook them through the body near the tail. If you hook the backbone he will not live long and this way he does not swim as naturally. When they are biting good I have had crappies hit a lip hooked minnow and knock him up the line, I'd land the fish, re-hook the still live minnow in the eye socket, quickly catch another and save the same minnow an rehook him through the tail and catch another before he died. I have even tried taking the same now newly deceased and very shopworn minnow and hook through the head and drag him around hoping a fish would grab him.
I have seen pictures where people attached a big shiner or such to a hook, maybe two, using rubber bands but I never tried that.
Rip them lips ;)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 29, 2021, 12:43:59 PMThis is one real old timers used to like to catch an eel. They could feed it to the kids with no worries about any small bones for the kids to choke on.
Quote from: Don P on November 29, 2021, 05:00:15 PMI know its just a hot dog that delivers but I think I prefer living dangerously.
Not an eel fan :D
Did you know that to clean an eel you skin it similar to skinning a frog or catfish? You can make a simple cut through the skin behind the head, grasp the skin with a pair of pliers or fisherman's pincers and pull towards the tail. The skin peels right off like pulling off a sock.
I confess - I don't think I have ever eaten an eel. The meat is very pretty and white and looks very much like a skinned channel catfish. I have skinned and cut them up and put them on bushhooks and trotlines for catfish bait. They are very slimy and one of the fastest ways to get the slime off your hands is to grab a handful of Spanish moss and rub with it and the slime comes right off on the moss. For those of you fishing in the glaciated northern climes I guess you will have to grab and handfull of dry or wet sand and wipe it off.
Eels, yeah, wow. It was part of our family culture when I lived near the water. I haven't had any ells since I was a kid, they were a very special treat. As I said, it was part of our culture more than just a food. We had a spec ail boat just for eeling that my Dad and his brother built. It had a square front with a small thwart that would hold the lights. The lights were two double mantle Coleman lanterns with a stainless steel reflector. We would go out late at night, perhaps starting around 10pm or so and pole along the bay shoreline about 15' from shore where the water was 3-6'deep. Eels could be seen cruising along the sand on the bottom, attracted by the lights I think and they would be speared and then pulled off the spear using the second seat as a fulcrum. All the ells would just slither around in the bottom of the boat. For the 12 year old in the back seat, this was unpleasant. When we had enough, we would beach the boat and get the eels into buckets. The next morning we would head them, sin them and gut the little that was in there and set them to soaking for dinner in [I don't know what]. My Aunt would take them and cut them into 1 to 1-1/2" long pieces and roll then in corn meal and flour. The men would start a big pot of oil heating on the fire and we would deep fry them and place them on paper towel to drain. It was heaven on a paper plate.
There are two things I miss from my childhood: Deep fried eels and sirloin tip horsemeat fondue. Both of those I could, and did, eat until I could no longer move.
I should note these were saltwater eels. My understanding is that all American eels are the same and they move from salt to freshwater. My Dad knew the migratory patterns and habits, but sadly, I have forgotten them now. For some reason I think they all move to the coast of Africa to breed, but that just strikes me now as impossible.
Tom,
Sounds good and I am not even an eel fan. I am interested if they are the same kinds of eels we find in our freshwater rivers and lakes and such.
I stopped in Osan Korea for a few days in December 1986 on my way home from a tour in Okinawa and eelskin products were on display for sale everywhere over there. Belts, wallets, purses, and shoes. I think about 4" wide was the widest I saw with a seam where 2 pieces were sewed together. I never saw the leather itself so can't confirm the sizes and process. The eelskin products had been dyed different colors and were very attractive and felt real soft to the touch. I don't know how well they held up.
We had Korean contractors working on the project in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia and they would bring in smoked or dried eel to eat and were very fond of it. I saw an old TV series "Filthy Riches" where a guy in New York, I think, had built a weir across a small river there and was catching and selling smoked eels. Sounded like he had a market for all he could produce.
Seems like I heard somewhere once fried though you needed to eat it soon or it got tough on a strong taste. Did you ever encounter that? Inquiring minds want to know. :D
Have fond memories of eating fried eel when I was about 8 or 9 years old. My Granddaddy would take me to Big Indian creek off of the Ocmulgee river to set limb lines. We would catch eels and he would clean them and he would fry them on the creek bank and we would eat them. I remember the taste being unique but good. Sadly, he died when I was 11 years old.
Glad you have memories of the good ol days.
Yes, while I can still remember things :).
Quote from: Old Greenhorn on December 01, 2021, 08:35:58 PMMy understanding is that all American eels are the same and they move from salt to freshwater. My Dad knew the migratory patterns and habits, but sadly, I have forgotten them now.
American eels spawn in the Sargasso Sea, then come back inland as glass eel where they mature, to go back to sea to spawn again.
The glass eels are huge big money fishery in Maine, to be sold in Japan.
JJ
Did you know a 40 lb dog can eat a rabbit in a matter of minutes? My son got home from school and let the dogs out like he always does. When he called them back, the little dog came right away, but the bigger one didn't come right away. When she did come, she was carrying a rabbit head. Luckily my son noticed and didn't let her bring it in the house.
FFOTS,
Reminds me of the story about a guy asking his neighbor to take care of their pet rabbit for the weekend while they were out of town later that week. Saturday he went over to check the rabbit and found his dog dragging around a dirty, dead white rabbit and he was horrified his dog had killed the neighbor's kids pet rabbit so he went to the local pet store and found another the same color and size and put it in the pen and hoped nobody noticed the difference. A couple days later he heard the neighbors drive up so after a few minutes he walked over and looked across the fence to see if his subterfuge had been discovered. The neighbor's kids were running around yelling excitedly "Fluffys back. Fluffys back." The neighbor looked confused so the man asked what was going on and the neighbor said "I forgot to tell you but when I checked on the rabbit Friday it had died so I buried it by the fence in the backyard." I don't remember if the guy ever explained that his dog dug it up and he had replaced it. ::)
That's funny.
My wife called the vet to see if we should do anything about the dog eating the rabbit. They said that if it was a little rabbit, not to worry about it too much, but watch for signs of tapeworm. We decided we should make her vomit her dinner. A dose of hydrogen peroxide and the dog brought it all up. Of course I"m at work when stuff like this happens. My son is convinced that at least 7 legs came out. Tapeworm is still a risk, but at least we won't have to worry about Junebug having bones stuck in her intestine. She was a stray in a previous life and no doubt many rabbits, but she was positive for heart worm too, so we didn't want to take any risks.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36921/received_1960584307616556.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1638491626)
good job, Junebug!
FFOS Don't sweat the tapeworms too much. I use a Heartworm preventative that gets tapes in most of my farm dogs and other chronic offenders. They are mostly gross and seem to cause milder issues than other intestinal parasites. She's just doing her job. :)
FFOS
Dogs in the wild have to eat quick when the pack makes a kill or they miss out. So they have ability to swallow large chunks of meat fairly easily, later they will regurgitate it, chew and swallow it properly for digestion.
Consider it a tenderizing step. smiley_jester
Did you know that a large alligator snapping turtle can crush large river mussels with his powerful jaws? These animals used to be a staple diet item for me when I was stationed in Albany Ga and I fished for them in Lake Worth on the Flint River there. Their stomachs would be full of big crushed up mussel shells they had harvested from muddy bottom of the lake.
Aren't mussels (more or less) freshwater clams? Aren't they both in the monopod class? If my deductive reasoning is halfway sound then I can understand why that "great big, overgrown lizard" would have such a taste for them.
PLEASE inform me if my reasons or other is incorrect. I look upon such actions as someone helping me because of my outlook on life. After coming extremely close to being fertilizer a LARGE handful of times, my outlook on life is MUCH different now than it was when I was 25ish.
Todd,
Yes, I guess mussels are just a big freshwater calm. I never thought about a turtle as an overgrown lizard in body armor.
Did you know an alligator can crush the shell of a freshwater turtle? We visited a commercial alligator and turtle farm 40-50 miles north of New Orleans and while walking around a water bonnet choked, chain link fenced-in, pond, we spotted a gator head sticking up by the edge of the pond. She had about a 12" diameter slider turtle in her jaws who was flapping his legs as if swimming. It looked like the gator waited till she had an audience and when our tour group got up to her then she raised her head, crunched down crushing the shell and gulped it down.
Did you know that a mother gator will build a raised nest of mud and leaves and such where she lays her eggs and they incubate and hatch in the rotting debris. She will stay in the area and viciously guard her nest? So if you are rambling around the swamps in Fla, Ala, Texas, Louisiana or Mississippi or such keep your eyes open for leafy, mud mounds about 18" tall and a couple feet in diameter. Gators can run pretty fast for a short distance and if you've never had a big old mad mama gator come charging up out of a pond at you are in for an adrenaline rush like you've never had! You will likely need to do some laundry too. :D
I bet those gators you guys got in the south aren't as vicious as a mute swan defending its nest lol lol
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 06, 2021, 10:29:54 AM
So if you are rambling around the swamps in Fla, Ala, Texas, Louisiana or Mississippi or such keep your eyes open for leafy, mud mounds about 18" tall and a couple feet in diameter.
And, if you are rambling around in WV, watch out for an old white haired geezer setting limb lines for catfish ;D.
Quote from: HemlockKing on December 06, 2021, 11:37:58 AM
I bet those gators you guys got in the south aren't as vicious as a mute swan defending its nest lol lol
They are the meanest birds I've ever seen. We saw a hen and 5-6 cygnets in Norway on a lake there near Kristiansand in 2007. We stopped and were taking pictures and the drake who was several hundred yards away on the other side of the lake folded his wings back and paddled as hard and fast as he could towards us. I never understood why he didn't just fly. Anyway when he got closer we had to jump back in the car for safety!
Quote from: WDH on December 06, 2021, 01:21:38 PM
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 06, 2021, 10:29:54 AM
So if you are rambling around the swamps in Fla, Ala, Texas, Louisiana or Mississippi or such keep your eyes open for leafy, mud mounds about 18" tall and a couple feet in diameter.
And, if you are rambling around in WV, watch out for an old white haired geezer setting limb lines for catfish ;D.
Don't let him catch you trying to take a catfish off his lines as he is always looking to bait a new, deep, hole in the Bluestone Lake and trying new kinds of bait. ;) If you need a mess of fish just ask him and he'll most likely give you plenty as he gives most of them away anyhow. He'll even show you how to go catch your own any time you want.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 06, 2021, 05:52:31 PM
Quote from: HemlockKing on December 06, 2021, 11:37:58 AM
I bet those gators you guys got in the south aren't as vicious as a mute swan defending its nest lol lol
They are the meanest birds I've ever seen. We saw a hen and 5-6 cygnets in Norway on a lake there near Kristiansand in 2007. We stopped and were taking pictures and the drake who was several hundred yards away on the other side of the lake folded his wings back and paddled as hard and fast as he could towards us. I never understood why he didn't just fly. Anyway when he got closer we had to jump back in the car for safety!
One of the most bravest moments of my life was hand feeding one of those beasts lol lol it seemed to accept me but couldn't differentiate my fingers from food so it kept biting my hand, didn't hurt though
HK,
Yeah, I bet we never got within 50 yards of the ones we were photographing when the drake chased us off. I still don't know why he did not flyover if he really wanted to protect his wife and kids instead of swimming. I would not want to hand feed one!
Did you know there are little birds call ox-pickers that live on and around most African big game animals? They are about the size of a starling or mockingird or such and light on one and walk around the animals and pick off the ticks and catch flies and such that land on the animal. They are very useful and the symbiotic relationship works great for both parties.
We watched one walk up into the nose cavity of a cape buffalo in South Africa who had a runny nose and took a drink. Pretty gross looking if you ask me.
My FIL had a small pond in N. Ala in his pasture that the cows drank out of of. In the summer when the flies were bad the cows would wade out belly deep to keep the flies off their belly which they could not reach. I've seen the bluegills rolling like piranhas and even saw one big bluegill who would jump a foot or more out of the water to catch a big horsefly that landed on the cows back.
Did you know papyrus, as described in the Bible in the story of baby Moses, is a tall buoyant plant that looks similar to sugarcane? It grows in and around the waterways throughout Africa in places like the Nile River and the Okavango Delta. It evidently has a significant sugar content and is a common forage plant for elephants and such. Fishermen in Ethiopia still make traditional raft like canoes or boats from it by tying bundles together and they use them for fishing. I well remember seeing local fishermen in the lakes and rivers around the Mago National Park and Lake Tana (Headwaters of the Blue Nile) sitting in or straddling papyrus rafts while running their trotlines or using cast nets to catch local fish while huge crocodile heads are commonly seen cruising nearby. Evidently periodically such a fisherman does get eaten while fishing. They are braver, crazier or way more desperate than I am.
Did you know there are species of wasps that build paper nests in the Amazon basin that are up to 3' long and 10-12 inches in diameter? They almost look like a big section of a log or bamboo. There are others that looked like an old straw skelp like medieval beekeepers used that looked like they would be 2-3 gallon capacity. I have no idea how many wasps would live in a nest that big but I had no intention of finding out!
We saw these along the Napo River in Ecuador, a/the major tributary of the Amazon River in and below the Cuyo Beuno national park (Ever see the Naked and Afraid series? Several of their episodes were filmed there). We saw them all along the river and along a side river that was the border with Peru.
Did you know that smoking meat, fish and fowl is still very common in many parts of Africa and other remote parts of the world? Many homes in Africa have a separate, outdoor kitchen where the cook their meals over an open fire. They have big pots and pans that the scrub clean with wet sand such. Over many of these fire pits you will find pegs and hooks they use to hang meat or fish or such where the smoke is funneled up over the meat/fish thereby helping preserve it. Many of these homes have little or no electricity and even the ones that do often do not include refrigeration.
Not on topic but you might have some perspectives. I heard the other day the Chinese are negotiating with Equitorial Guinea for an Atlantic military port
The last time I was in Africa was during 2008-2011 and the Chinese were very active in building roads and other infrastructure projects there. I assume they are looking for a much bigger presence there.
Did you know a dik-dik is Africa's smallest antelope? Some species only stand about 12" at the shoulder and weigh 6-10 lbs when fully mature. They may live up to 10 years or so. They have a pair of small pointed horns probably 3-4 inches long. They stay in heavy brush most of the time and are browsers eating mostly leaves and vines. They have big soft, limpid eyes and are generally considered very cute. Pygmies hunt with nets and surround a thick area in the bush then chase the animals, often dik-diks, bush pigs or porcupines out into the nets where they are killed and eaten.
Do you know the difference between antlers and horns? Antlers are grown by members of the deer family that range in size from tiny Fla Key deer (a subspecies of whitetail) to moose in Canada and Alaska. They shed them and grow new ones every year. Horns are like a modified hair substance and are permanent growths. They are found in cows, goats, sheep and antelopes. You can age a big horn sheep from a distance with a good pair of binoculars or a telescope by counting the rings as every year they add a new distinctive ring because of the change in growing seasons just like happens with a tree.
AND, antlers are shed every year.
What exactly are the coverings on a prairie goat, AKA Proghorn Antelope. Aren't those some sort of hair sheath? Those are "close but no cigar" to either explanation.
Quote from: Tacotodd on December 12, 2021, 06:47:52 PM
AND, antlers are shed every year.
What exactly are the coverings on a prairie goat, AKA Proghorn Antelope. Aren't those some sort of hair sheath? Those are "close but no cigar" to either explanation.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 12, 2021, 08:26:24 AM...They shed them and grow new ones every year. Horns are like a modified hair substance and are permanent growths. ...
(https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.biwhPSJk-zL0UPIemGXiZgHaE6&w=200&h=132&rs=1&qlt=80&o=6&dpr=1.25&pid=3.1)
The pronghorn (https://www.bing.com/search?q=Pronghorn&filters=sid%3ae4609b05-bfa4-6cc9-2a6b-3da9b1eaf44a&form=ENTLNK) has horns, not antlers. Its horns are made of two parts: a bony core that is covered by a sheath made of a stiff hair-like material. It is the only animal that has branched horns and it it the only animal that sheds its horns each year! The outer sheath falls of every year in the fall and then grows back in the summer! Did you know the pronghorn antelope is the only antelope with branched horns? (I did not know that till Taco prompted me to look up the above quote) Thinking back to all the different African antelope, goats, sheep, cows and yaks I have seen they all had one straight, hard surfaced, bony looking horn on each side with no forks. I did not realize the pronghorn shed the outer portion of its antlers every year. Apparently the bony core remains.
Also did you know the pronging is the stereotypical bouncing on 2 pairs of legs instead of running flat out on all for. I have seen Springbok and Gemsbok /Oryx in Africa pronging when they were not threatened and just sort of enjoying running/bouncing around but when threatened they were running using all four legs at top speeds which was much faster. (When a lion or cheetah is after you is not the time to take a leisurely happy stroll out of the area.)
I understand that the pronghorn antelope is one of the fastest animals in the world.
Quote from: Tacotodd on December 12, 2021, 06:47:52 PM
AND, antlers are shed every year.
What exactly are the coverings on a prairie goat, AKA Proghorn Antelope. Aren’t those some sort of hair sheath? Those are “close but no cigar” to either explanation.
You can make a soup base with deer antlers and it’s supposedly really healthy/ combats inflammation
Cut the antlers up into slices and boil. Anyone ever tried anything alike?
Eating deer antlers IMHO is like eating a possum - times just ain't got that hard yet! I am sure there is some nutritional value there just like there would be boiling up bones and hooves and hides and such. I'm thinking it is a starvation tactic only.
You've ate possum ??? lol
Possum is a lean alternative to armadillo. Can't say I care much for either one. I remember a dove shoot in Honduras my bird boys got all excited, seems they had cornered an Iguana and wanted me to shoot it. I handed off my shotgun and let them shoot it. They were so proud.
Anybody tried raccoon?
Yep It's kinda tough so a low temperature is best, boil first then drain, corn meal, hot grease.
I have eaten armadillo and liked it and have eaten raccoon many times and generally liked it when properly prepared. The same is true of beaver.
I have not eaten possum yet and have pulled too many out of old cow or mule carcasses to want to eat one. I've eaten some awfully "exotic" foods working and vacationing in Africa and the Amazon jungle so am not particularly squeamish but times have not gotten hard enough to eat a possum yet.
Probably best to trap them ? If no dogs
Use the dog proof traps for the raccoon.
Raccoon tastes fine, IF dressed, prepared, and cooked right.
But the negative is more about the idea than the taste. Some judge without tasting.
Quote from: beenthere on December 13, 2021, 10:55:37 PM
Use the dog proof traps for the raccoon.
Raccoon tastes fine, IF dressed, prepared, and cooked right.
But the negative is more about the idea than the taste. Some judge without tasting.
Yeah I think most people think of them as trash eaters because you always see them around urban settings, around here I don't half to worry so much about raccoons that are full of trash though lol
Did you know bullfrogs will readily attack and can be caught on artificial lures? If you can see the frog you can dangle an artificial fly, cork or foam bug in front of him and he will attack it. A piece of cloth with a hook in it is adequate to catch them. They will also readily attack and plastic worm or grub dangled or crawled past them. WARNING - if you see one on the bank and decide to catch him be ready for a violent strike and you better have some pretty stout tackle and they are fierce fighters once hooked. Old timers used to also catch them in thick bonnet or lily pad beds using a long pole with a short line by dangling a gob of worms or a live crawfish in front of them.
My grandmother used to use a similar technique with a jig or fly she called a "dabbler" on a few inches of line on a long pole and she'd stick it under low bushes and such where there was no other way to present a bait. She would catch big bluegills and redbellies and such hiding there waiting for an unwary insect. Once hooked all you could do was pull it end over end to you or pass it back to the boat handler to unhook.
Do you know how to scull a boat? Old timers down south were experts at it. It propelled the boat with one hand leaving the other hand free to fish. You'd place an oar lock/notch on the back left side of the boat transom and lay an oar in it and make a sort of horizontal figure 8 motion to push the boat forward. If you want to steer left or right you just lift the oar and push more in the opposite direction to turn the board. It was very quiet and the preferred technique to sneak up on bass when jiggerfishing for big bass at night or to sneak up on a spooky bullfrog on the bank. I learned to scull a boat at an early age and had a very light weight juniper oar which was my favorite till I finally wore it in two where it rubbed in the oar lock.
I see the gondoliers in Venice Italy use a similar technique on the canals there only on a larger scale with a 2 handed motion from the rear of their vessels.
I never learned the name but we encountered a tree in the Central African Republic that scattered the seeds by a type of explosion or some sort of high pressure relief. It was a type of bean tree that had a seed pod that was about the size of a man's foot (about 3" wide X 12" long). When I first saw the open pods I thought it was the sole of an old worn out shoe or sandal. While sitting in a hide overlooking a saline meadow frequented by elephants, buffalo (The brown ones, not the black cape buffalo), saiga, bongos and other type of rare antelopes and birds we kept hearing a periodic loud popping or snapping sound. I asked the guide and he explained the seeds in these "beans" would build up pressure till they exploded throwing seeds a long distance. The seeds would be thrown a long way and the 2 halves of the seeds would fall to the ground under the tree.
There are other more local plants in our country such as "touch me nots" and such that are under pressure and spread their seeds by violently throwing them out under the right conditions.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 16, 2021, 08:54:11 AM
Do you know how to scull a boat? Old timers down south were experts at it. It propelled the boat with one hand leaving the other hand free to fish. You'd place an oar lock/notch on the back left side of the boat transom and lay an oar in it and make a sort of horizontal figure 8 motion to push the boat forward. If you want to steer left or right you just lift the oar and push more in the opposite direction to turn the board. It was very quiet and the preferred technique to sneak up on bass when jiggerfishing for big bass at night or to sneak up on a spooky bullfrog on the bank. I learned to scull a boat at an early age and had a very light weight juniper oar which was my favorite till I finally wore it in two where it rubbed in the oar lock.
I see the gondoliers in Venice Italy use a similar technique on the canals there only on a larger scale with a 2 handed motion from the rear of their vessels.
Gunning floats (boats used for duck hunting) have a hole in the center of the transom, just above the waterline used for sculling. My uncle, who lives on Merrymeeting Bay in Bowdoinham, Maine was a hunting guide and used to make several of these boats each year to sell or use himself. My father has had several over the years. I duck hunted as a kid, but didn't pursue it as an adult.
PH,
I'd love a picture if you find one. I am a little confused about the hole just above the waterline and in the center of the transom. The old fishing boats we used had the oarlock or notch placed about 1/4 of the way between the side of the boat on the transom so you could sit pretty much centered on the back seat and scull with your left hand. (Right handed fishermen would have wanted the oar lock on the right hand side of the boat. We generally sculled with our off-hand leaving our dominant hand free for fishing.) I would scull with my left had and fly fish with a popping bug with my right hand or if crappie fishing with minnows or drowning worms or crickets for bluegills using a cane pole with my right hand. I'd ease along the bank dropping the bait in likely pockets or tossing my cork bug under the bushes and along the bank or in pockets in the lily pads or bonnets. I usually fished in lakes but I've seen expert local fishermen sculling up some pretty swift water. It is actually much easier to control the boat when sculling or with a trolling motor, when going upstream rather than downstream.
The oar usually had a rubber collar slid down it to adjust the length it rode in the water and so when you released it to use both hands, your oar did not slide out the rear. Some people just tied a piece of rope around it. I kept a short canoe paddle in the boat as a back up in case my oar fell out and also for sideways motion.
Here's a video I found (no relation that I know of, but same area as my dad's family). My memory may be off - this sculling hole is off-center. It's been years since I laid my eyes on a boat. I'll have to look next time I'm at my folks.
Sculling a gunning float - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YyBezizf0c)
Thanks for the video. Look closely at the operator's hands and you will see the distinctive sideways figure 8 motion like I mentioned earlier and looks just like what we used. Maybe our transom's were lower allowing us to rest the oar in an oar lock on the top but I do remember some old wooden boats had a notch cut out of the top for the oar to rest in. The oar always was placed from above rather than the end like the duck boat shown. I did not see a collar on the users oar so if he is not careful and lets go of the oar he can lose it. (Don't ask how I know that can happen. BTW - have you ever tried to paddle a heavy boat with your hands like an inflatable toy in a pool? ;))
I'd personally prefer the hole in the transom be higher than the water level or be sealed around the oar to prevent waves splashing in through it. I am sure in those conditions they don't use boats like this or bail more often.
BTW - did you know I understand one, and maybe more, outboard motor manufacturers used to include a small flexible hose attached to the motor's cooling system (I assume that was where it hooked in) that created a vacuum and you hooked it up and laid the end in the bottom of the boat and when the motor was running it sucked out any water that had leaked or splashed in. Almost all wooden and probably metal boats leak a little around the seams and rivets and periodically need a little baling.
I once hired a wooden boat in Africa with one operator and 4 people baling. I once went fishing with a buddy in an old borrowed boat that leaked so bad I was hard pressed to keep it baled with a 5 gallon bucket and when I finally went on strike and quit baling we had grown crappie swimming around upright with no dorsal fins exposed. It got so high the styrofoam minnow bucket floated up and turned over. We had to pull the boat on the bank and strain the water through small dip nets to recover enough bait to continue fishing. :D
When not sculling, a cone-shaped piece of wood is pushed in the hole to minimize leaking. But you're right, there is always a coffee can or cut plastic bottle in there to scoop out the water.
Did you know Indians in South America and apparently the Cherokees in North America hunt/hunted with blowguns? In South America they tip the darts with very fast acting poison made from the poison dart frogs. When I asked the guide at the Cherokee village she seemed to think they did not use poison.
I bought a blowgun in Ecuador and the darts were split and smoothed and the fletching was made from Kapok fluff similar to cotton balls. The hunter put the dart in his mouth to wet it and then he rolled it in the Kapok fluff and it looks like a Q-tip/cotton swab.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2952.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1639837766)
This one is about 30" long. The shaft is about 25-26 inches and was made separate from the mouthpiece. The two pieces are joined and wrapped in what I think is eelskin. The bore was sanded smooth. See the fletched dart with the kapock fluff attached. The small gourd is filled with kapock fluff. The darts are in the wooden bamboo tube.
This is evidently a child's blowgun made for the kids to practice on. They could not handle a 10'-12' blowgun as used by adult hunters and I could not get a full size one in my luggage. :D It is very accurate.
I met up with my wife in Charlotte NC and we flew to the Amazon together in December 2008 and I flew directly back to Norway where I was working at the time while she flew back to WV. She brought it home for me and the agriculture or drug dogs in Quito International Airport alerted on her bag and she had to show it to the inspectors. They even checked the darts for poison. Fortunately there was none there and they let her bring it home with her without further issues.
I never got a chance to comment on the sculling subject but tonight I had a meeting at the Maritime meusum and this little tender skiff was out front so I snapped a couple of photos. This was they way I was always using to seeing the sculling hole done, but this is the first one I've seen on the left (starboard) side. The ones I have seen in the past were port side and I always skull on the port side myself, but rarely have a hole or an oarlock to work with. I just hold my left hand on the transom and skull the the right. Works fine.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/52103/IMG_20211218_184525278.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1639877293)
I am not sure what the exact story is on this skiff, but it is of the type that was used as a tender for sailing vessels along the river to shuttle freight and crew to and from shore. I believe this one was made in the boat shop at the museum.
SHe is a pretty little thing.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/52103/IMG_20211218_184538408.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1639877292)
Tom,
You better go review your Starboard and port and make sure you know which is the bow and stern, just in case. ;D
I never saw one on the right (Starboard) side either. Mostly we used metal oarlocks with a screw clamp that could be tightened or loosened and moved to adjust to the most comfortable position. The ones I remember with built in notches were always on the left (port) side. We always sculled with our non-dominant hand leaving our dominant hand free to fish or shoot or whatever. When sculling in swift water or in a hurry such as when towing a skier or two we'd use both hands for the extra power required. ;) :D
Somebody used to market a little manual precursor to an electric trolling motor. You pumped it up and down and it turned a little 2 or 3 blade propeller. As I remember it swiveled in a bracket so you could turn the boat. Those of us who learned to scull with an oar never used them. We had a neighbor with a deformed hand with only a thumb and a finger or two who used one pretty effectively. I confess - I really prefer my foot controlled, bow mounted electric trolling motor as it leaves both hands free to fish or whatever.
You're a better man than me Howard. Try as I might, I could never get a skier quite up on plane by skulling. I would have to park my butt amidship in the center seat and pull hard with both oars, even at that it was hard to keep them up for more than 10 or 15 minutes and I would be pooped out. It is also important to feather those oars as you go to cut down wind resistance and get them back in the water fast.
I never saw the pump gizmos.
Tom,
I have this vision of your great-great grandfather Erik the Awful, the Viking captain, with a crew of captured oarsmen in the dragon headed Viking ship sailing around the Fjords of Norway with your grandpa manning the bullhorn and whip yelling "Ramming speed" and laying out with the lash on a crew of sweating oarsmen while the first mate, your Great Great uncle Thor, skied behind the ship. :D :D :D Great great grandma Ingrid was clad in a scanty reindeer fur bikini pouting and waiting for her turn. :D :D :D :D
Whilst I do so enjoy your flight of fancy there Howard I have to tell you your chronological clock is mis-placed by more than a few generations. My great-great Grandfather was a Norwegian farmer between around 1790- 1830 or so (I am doing this from memory, but could look it up). You would have to go back much further to get back to the Viking age. I could do this and trace my family back to around the Battle Of Hastings (1066) or a little before but it is kind of fuzzy. I have no evidence of such events that you refer to.
However, the sea has always been central in my family and, as was always the case in the mid to late 1800's, my grandfather signed on with a ship at the age of 14 as almost all farm boys did when their schooling was complete. The intent was to spend a year or so at sea and then decide if they were going to farm or stay at sea. My Grandfather was on a 3 masted schooner sailing from England to India (around the Cape). Their vessel was becalmed on the Indian Ocean for 3 weeks sitting adrift. When he finally returned home he decided to stay on land and emigrated to the States in 1890. He loved and built boats and engines for them all his life, but never went to sea again as crew. One of hid Brothers stayed at sea, eventually became a Captain running passengers and cargo from England to the US and was lost at sea. I have also lost of family members at sea, so it is in my blood. I learned to walk on a boat as a toddler (couldn't walk on flat ground until later for some reason, kept falling down). I started learning specific seamanship skills at the age of about 10 (knots, rigging, navigation, charts, boat handling, foul weather skills, etc) but sadly I am one of very few in my family that has never owned a boat (I try not to talk about that). But yeah, I know how to skull a small boat.
Ah, ramming speed.
Did you know we have a western culture because of... ramming speed.
Around 500 BC Leonidas and his token Greek force had fought bravely at Thermopylae. His small army held the "gates" against vastly overwhelming odds until betrayed, encircled and crushed. But he broke Persian king Xerxes stride and plans for a joint land/sea pincer. Xerxes, he was good king Darius's boy. A little big on ambition.
The state of the art military warship of the day was a trireme, both sides had them. They were light, lightly built with a protruding under waterline ramming bow that was bronze clad. Everything about this vessel was about speed, it needed to be able to move and outrun or outmaneuver its opponent.
Typically they were hauled onto the beach every night, a waterlogged boat is slow.
Xerxes captains were a little off their game when they arrived off Salamis. The Greeks were not being pressed from the rear yet and they, with their dry boats, remained onshore overnight, eating and sleeping. The Persian captains kept their men on the water and on station, well there was nowhere else on those 120' long vessels other than a place for your butt in front of an oar. The Persians were largely conscripted sailors and the trireme (tri, 3 tiers of oars, these things were all engine), also had to carry a larger compliment of marines for control of the 170 man crew, more dead weight.
At dawn the battle began. The free Greeks fighting for home, again outnumbered, probably around 300 vessels on their side to 500-1200 Persian boats. The Greeks were fresh, rested, fed and in much lighter boats.
Kicked butt.
As a result of that we have a democratic republic rather than speaking Farsi. If that battle had gone wrong, the world would be an entirely different place.
Ram on :)
Thanks for the family and regular history lessons. I did know they made ships with bronze headed ram heads on the front they used to shatter and sink their enemies ships.
Tom,
Are you sure your ancestors didn't moonlight a little in the off-seasons? :D Those winters in Norway are pretty long and awful cold with a short growing season and they did not have greenhouses back then as I understand. In fact, if you visit the old style Norwegian longhouses you'd find the community built long structures the whole clan lived in with their sheep, cattle and dogs to provide added warmth and to keep everyone and all the stock from freezing. So looking at another long winter living with the cows, sheep and Fjord horses made raiding a few southern countries with warmer climates and curvier shipmates and such pretty appealing. ;D To this day if you watch the women walking around any large city or on the farms in Norway you will see the evidence of successful raids with redheads, brunettes, jet black hair, blonds, almond eyes, etc. ;)
You're trying to make me pull my book off the shelf and go through it to refresh my memory so I can either confirm or deny, aren't you? :D
No doubt that happened, I just can't recall without looking it up if any of mine were in the fray. I get back to around the mid-1700's before if gets grey and would have to go back another 750 years to satisfy the question, which is tricky. I have the names and lines written down, but the tracing of relationships is quite complex when one ventures that far afield. If memory serves, my book goes back to my 16th great grandfather, but as I said, it's fuzzy.
Right now I have wood to split, and am looking at that book on the shelf but am resisting touching it because I know it's a 3 hour rabbit hole if I do.
Tom,
I think you need to open a separate thread and lay out your family history with any great successes, mishaps, and details of life in Norway and coming to America, etc.
I still want to hear more details about Grandpa Eric the Awful. :D
Did you know that certain water birds like Cormorants and Anhingas basically fly under water in pursuit of fish? When they come out of the water their wings are so water soaked they can barely fly. They fly up on a low limb and spread their wings wide so they can dry quickly in the open air.
We went down to the Everglades 7-8 years ago in March on a vacation and discovered we arrived at the perfect time to see the gators and water birds because it was in the height of their dry season and the canals along the cross Fla canal held the most open water so that was where the gators and water birds and such were congregated. We saw thousands of gators and hundreds of cormorant and anhinga on the bushes drying their wings. This was the first time I had ever seen them exhibit this trait.
Turkey Vultures will roost with wings spread to dry off after a rain or to soak up the sun to warm up when it's cold. I have seen other birds sit on the ground in full, hot sunlight with wings spread. I suspect that they were trying to make life short and miserable for parasites such as lice and mites.
Some birds will hold an ant in their bill and preen their feathers. It is thought that the formic acid from the ants makes life hard on parasites.
Large birds like vultures and eagles will also wait till later in the day to fly around in many cases because it is harder to stay aloft in cooler morning air. Later in the day there is often more breeze helping them soar with less effort.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/_DSC2524.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1619558830)
Looks like some deodorant company would pick up on that picture for their logo. :D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 19, 2021, 04:52:47 PM
Looks like some deodorant company would pick up on that picture for their logo. :D
Their armpits must stink and they're airing them out lol
Did you know in India, and possibly other countries, people captured and trained/forced Anhingas or Cormorants to fish for them? A big part of the process was to put a collar around the neck of the bird so when he actually caught a fish he could not actually swallow it.
Just another form of domestication. I have felt like the birds at times too :).
Collars around a fellas neck will do that.
Might work as a new diet plan too. :D
Did you know that when civil engineers find an unexplained seep or wet area, the substance tested for to determine if it is a sanitary sewer leak is caffeine?
Quote from: WDH on December 20, 2021, 11:46:27 AMI have felt like the birds at times too
You need it!! smiley_jester
Did you know old timers in Norway carved what looked like half an hourglass in the footers of their buildings so the mice and rats could not climb up them? Imagine taking a 16" Diameter log then sawing a 4" deep cut all around it then cutting the wood away in an hourglass shape from the bottom up leaving the flat, flange-like area. Mice and rats run up the post but they fall off when they try to climb the upside down spot (|< - imagine this shape was rotated 90* to the right).
Those old Noggies were pretty sharp using efficient and environmentally friendly pest control (When they weren't out on Viking raids and such :D).
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/stabbur.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1615985112)
This one has a lot going on. The posts are sitting on stone piers. The eggcrate lower skirt braces the posts. The tapered post top tucks under the overhanging sill edge to keep critters out of the stabbur. Notice the gap at the stairs as well.
I'm having a deja vu, I have seen that picture before and believe Howard has shared that did you know before lol
The stair gap won't do it. Jeff and I watched a mouse climb stairs with 7" risers faster than any of us could. It simply hopped from tread to tread.
Deer mouse can jump too
HK,
I confess I was having a senior moment and apparently made a duplicate post (although with more detail) of a topic covered previously. I will do that periodically to see if you guys were actually paying attention. :D
Okay - maybe this is a new topic.
Did you know the sap of palm trees in Africa is fermented and drunk as Palm wine? The trees may be tapped similar to tapping them for maple syrup, pine sap for making turpentine, or rubber collection. The sap is collected in containers and consolidated with the sap of other palm trees. Sap may be collected for week or even months in this fashion. Also when palm trees are cut down a container is sometimes placed under the butt of the tree and the sap drains into it.
I couldn't remember from when but knew I had the pic in my gallery, and wasn't about to pass up an opportunity, I really like that building ;D. I was thinking the same thing on their mouse gap at the stairs and then wondered. Do they have coons and squirrels and possums and weasels and ... oh my, in the Scandinavian countries?
I once was at a house where the homeowner said some kind of animal was in the attic. There was a set of mouse tracks in the snow that went up on the entryway by the front door. No snow on the entryway so I extropolated and guessed that it went up an inside corner, across a wall and up around the soffit to the roof. Sure enough, the tracks resumed up on the roof in the snow and went up to a crack into another soffit. How that mouse got up around the first soffit AND around a smooth rain gutter to the roof I'll never know. Never underestimate their climbing ability.
Did you know palm oil is made from the nut of a palm tree? The oil from the nut is reddish orange in color but the kernel in the middle yields a black oil which is often used for medicinal purposes.
We watched a family making palm oil in Cameroon. The seed heads are about half the size of a five gallon bucket and typically bi-colored. The owners cut the stalk with the seed head off the tree then knocked the nuts off with the back side of a machete on to a tarp. The nut were typically about 3/4" in diameter and about 2" long. The nuts were picked up and dumped into a 55 gallon metal drum about half filled with water and a fire was built at the base of the barrel. The nuts were boiled until soft then removed and dumped into the hopper of a big, usually 2 man, press. The press men had a 3" diameter pole or pipe fitted through an eye on the top of a big screw and as they walked in circles the nuts were squeezed dry. The oil ran out a drain hole at the bottom of the press.
The pressed dry remains were removed and the seeds could be picked out if they wanted to salvage the seeds and further process them in a similar but more labor intensive process. The dried husks are generally used to burn to make the next batch of oil so it is pretty self-sustaining.
If you check you will see palm oil is listed as an ingredient in every chocolate bar. In Cameroon it was sold in the local market and used just like we would use corn, vegetable or peanut oil. In the market a lady will have a big container of palm oil and will pour it up into used 1 to 1.5 liter plastic water bottles.
My maid used to moonlight selling some of the worlds best little fried meat pies. I got her to make and freeze me a bunch on cookie sheets that were not cooked and I'd take them out as needed and bake or throw a couple in my deep fryer when I wanted a snack. They were very good but in all honesty the ones she cooked in the artery clogging, heart stopping local palm oil were actually much better tasting than the ones I cooked in vegetable oil. digin1
Especially for you flatland touristers, did you know the easiest and safest way to walk up a steep hill is to walk up at an angle and sort of zig zag back and forth to keep the angle less than going straight up. Also it keeps more of your foot in parallel contact with the ground to provide more traction should you start to slide which is real common in snow or on thick leaves. Using a walking staff or stick makes for much better stability too where possible. If I have a free hand I often find a handy limb or such to use. Walking downhill is much more dangerous than going uphill as if you slip you are likely to get over-balanced and take a tumble or gain momentum and keep going till you hit something, get your feet angled to brake your slide or you can grab a small tree or limb.
If you will notice the game trails almost never go straight up and down a slope. The animals walk along the slope on the side of the hill at a gradual angle up or down. Where possible use them to save energy and walk safely.
Did you know the really long ears on certain hound breeds such as bloodhounds, coon hound, bassets, etc. help them funnel the smell of their prey up to their noses? This is especially important on old/colder trails.
I remember reading about an experiment where the researchers trimmed or pinned back the ears on such long eared hounds and they discovered the dogs lost their ability to follow a cold trail which they had previously been able to easily do.
Did you know it must be mating season for squirrels in WV? I've been in the woods lately trying to get another deer and I am seeing lots of pairs of squirrels chasing each other all over the place. They don't look to be territorial disputes either. I assume that would put the baby squirrels being born in late February or early March.
I was in one of my shooting houses this morning on an antlerless youth/senior hunt and I kept hearing scratching on the walkway to my shooting house. Eventually I heard scratching and finally a nose and face stuck under the door where they have chewed a couple inches off the bottom for better access. I waved at it to chase it back then a minute or so later it came back and a big fuzzy fat fox squirrel climbed right in and sat there about 3' from me till I shooed him away. About an hour later a gray/cat squirrel as we call them, stuck his head in too.
With my previous traumatic experiences with chipmunks in my shooting houses I certainly don't want a much larger and more aggressive cousin sharing the space with me. ::)
Gray squirrels are much more peaceful I find. Nothing like the bug eyed wirey red squirrel that is furiously annoying! They certainly have some type of small mammal syndrome where they ought a act tough often lol they simply do not care , I have some come right up in front of me while actively bucking wood with the saw, like 10 ft away
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 26, 2021, 11:34:36 AMWith my previous traumatic experiences with chipmunks in my shooting houses I certainly don't want a much larger and more aggressive cousin sharing the space with me.
I think you need to keep a sling shot with you. Ping them on the head and they might get the message!
I had one there with me this morning and gave serious thought to using it this morning. Actually, I like having the squirrels in the area as an early warning system when a deer comes into the area.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 26, 2021, 12:53:54 PM
I had one there with me this morning and gave serious thought to using it this morning. Actually, I like having the squirrels in the area as an early warning system when a deer comes into the area.
Fifty eight years of bow and gun hunting white tail deer in ground or tree stands, and don't recall a single time that the surrounding squirrels (fox, gray, red) were ever a warning to deer moving near the stand.
But that was WI, not WV. Our squirrels must not have any fear of deer. ;D :D
Many times I have been able to follow a deer walking for a half a mile in the woods here in WV just by listening to the squirrels and chipmunks. When a deer walks into a squirrels area he will start scolding until it leaves the area. When the deer leaves one squirrels area he moves to the next squirrel or chipmunks area and it starts scolding until it moves to the next rodents home area. One squirrel on chipmunk just hands him off to the next one in like I don't think it is fear of the deer. I think it is just boredom and they find it entertaining. I have seen them do the same thing with predators like foxes or bobcats, hawks and owls, people and once even a possum.
I am amazed a Wisconsin squirrel would not do the same thing as I have seen the same thing in many states. Maybe it's a southern thing. :D
I have even seen crows give a warning when a deer walks by and am sure many other animals in the woods do the same thing.
BTW - at 7:11 a.m. I heard a turkey gobble on the roost. They do not normally do that this time of year and it was memorable in the rarity.
EDIT: I was thinking more about the squirrels giving the alarm while I was waiting on Donner or Blitzen and I have about concluded the reasons the squirrels and chipmunks fuss at the deer as they see them as competition for the same food source as both eat the same acorns, beech nuts, grapes, etc. I think we have addressed before about others here having similar experiences with squirrels and such giving notice when deer or such come in the area.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 26, 2021, 01:14:35 PM
Many times I have been able to follow a deer walking for a half a mile in the woods here in WV just by listening to the squirrels and chipmunks. When a deer walks into a squirrels area he will start scolding until it leaves the area. When the deer leaves one squirrels area he moves to the next squirrel or chipmunks area and it starts scolding until it moves to the next rodents home area. One squirrel on chipmunk just hands him off to the next one in like I don't think it is fear of the deer. I think it is just boredom and they find it entertaining. I have seen them do the same thing with predators like foxes or bobcats, hawks and owls, people and once even a possum.
I am amazed a Wisconsin squirrel would not do the same thing as I have seen the same thing in many states. Maybe it's a southern thing. :D
I have even seen crows give a warning when a deer walks by and am sure many other animals in the woods do the same thing.
BTW - at 7:11 a.m. I heard a turkey gobble on the roost. They do not normally do that this time of year and it was memorable in the rarity.
EDIT: I was thinking more about the squirrels giving the alarm while I was waiting on Donner or Blitzen and I have about concluded the reasons the squirrels and chipmunks fuss at the deer as they see them as competition for the same food source as both eat the same acorns, beech nuts, grapes, etc. I think we have addressed before about others here having similar experiences with squirrels and such giving notice when deer or such come in the area.
Our turkeys have been gobbling and fighting for 3 months like it's spring.
I figured it was a pretty warm morning yesterday was the reason that one gobbled. He only gobbled once that I heard and I was in the same place this morning and did not hear him again.
Did you know they grow tea in Africa? I did not know it till I worked a project in Cameroon and while visiting the surrounding area I found a fairly large, active tea plantation. The people picking the tea wore a special backpack style basket with shoulder and head straps. The tea grew on bushes that were about waist high at the time I saw them and the workers picked only the new, tender leaves. They picked with both hands and the leaves over each shoulder without looking till the basket was full then they would empty it and start over.
I understand there used to be tea plantations around Charleston SC when this country was first settled.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 27, 2021, 12:21:00 PMDid you know they grow tea in Africa?
Well, did you know that they grow tea in Mississippi? Yup, here in the Brookhaven area close to where we live. I'll try to remember to take a few pictures the next time I pass the tea farm.
I did not know they grew tea in Mississippi. Is it a commercial enterprise or more of a hobby farm? More details will be most welcome, entertaining and I suspect, educational. ;)
It is a commercial venture that has been in business for ~10 years. Great Mississippi Tea Co. (https://www.greatmsteacompany.com/)
Interesting concept. I hope it works out. I can't help but wonder how they can even be marginally competitive in an industry that is so labor intensive. When I come to Brookhaven MS I will include this on my must see list of places to go. ;)
I wonder if tea plants even becomes big enough to saw into lumber? :D
Did you know they grow rice in Africa? I did not know it till I got there to Cameroon. I found they even grew it up on the sides of the mountains which really surprised me as I'd have thought it was far too dry to grow it up there. Lake Chad is a big man-made lake on the border with Cameroon and Chad and semi-desert at best but they had set up irrigation systems from the lake to flood the rice paddys and grew a lot of rice there. They would put the rice on tarps or such on roof tops or on the edges of the dusty roads to dry and they would pound it in their log mortars and pestles to knock the husks off. My last assignment was in Guinea and rice was widely grown there.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/DSCF0640.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1640700978)
A field of rice growing in Guinea in West Africa.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/DSCF1275.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1640701340)
Grain drying in a village in Guinea in West Africa
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/DSCF1561.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1640701572)
Women in Guinea - I don't know if they were going to or from the market or their fields.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 28, 2021, 09:26:59 AMDid you know they grow rice in Africa?
Did you know that there are huge rice fields in N. Louisiana and S. Arkansas?
Quote from: Magicman on December 28, 2021, 01:17:44 PM
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 28, 2021, 09:26:59 AMDid you know they grow rice in Africa?
Did you know that there are huge rice fields in N. Louisiana and S. Arkansas?
And Texas. Back in the day I worked for the USDA inspecting crops for crop insurance. One of the largest rice tracts was owned by the Arch Duke of Lichtenstein and grew a rice that smelled like popcorn when cooking, we get a bit of it here, but the Arabs pay a premium for it, so most goes to their marked. It was and is good rice, the name of which eludes me. It is a Basmati rice. It is sold as Texmati, and one of the best. Had to work on that for a while.
Northern California is a huge exporter of rice. Most of it heads to Japan. I bought a 30 or 40lb bag of rice (it was a big bag!) off my favorite bidding site for something like $8. It had a colorful label and Japanese writing on it. Not sure if it was imported from Japan. Down at the bottom, in tiny print, it said "Product of California" :D
I knew they grew rice in Mississippi, LA and Texas. I knew they used to grow it in SC but don't think they do now. I did not know they grew rice in California.
LJohn,
Do they actually grow rice in CA or do they just package and export it from there? I knew the USA exports a significant amount of rice.
Did you know Viet Nam was referred to as the rice owl of the Orient and was one of the main reasons it has been the center of conflict for so long.
BTW - don't they flood the rice fields in the southern USA and raise crawfish after the rice is harvested?
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 28, 2021, 04:47:46 PMBTW - don't they flood the rice fields in the southern USA and raise crawfish after the rice is harvested?
Absolutely but I will admit that I had misplaced that information. Oh yes now I remember, my last birthday ate it. ::)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 28, 2021, 04:47:46 PMLJohn, Do they actually grow rice in CA
The Sacramento airport was once surrounded by rice fields. Now it is housing and all the people are complaining about the noise!::)
Oddly, there is little rice grown south of Sacramento. But going north, there is probably 80 miles (probably more) of patties you see on the sides of I5 and 99/70 and extend out east and west as far as you can see. Lots of water to be had out of the Sacramento river (Lake Shasta up in Redding is huge followed by Lake Orville in Chico). Sacramento has a massive rice silo collection at the Port of Sacramento. There is a deep water canal just for the rice haulers.
My home state of AR has what some call "the rice capital of the world" town of Stuttgart. It also tends to be a duck hunting paradise. I have never had the "right" opportunity to go. I also understand that it's just as much of a social event as a dove hunt would be. Although the duck hunt would be much colder, and you better make sure that your waders don't leak ;D
Did you know they grow peanuts in Africa? They are a staple food item for many of the tribes over there. We watched a Koma tribeswoman wearing only a belt of beads with green leaves stuffed in front and back for attire as she took a short handled hoe as she grubbed through the dry soil digging up peanuts that she had planted there. Her tribe had only been contacted by outsides about 15 years earlier so apparently they had been growing peanuts for hundreds of years before that. We watched a pygmy woman grinding peanuts with a river rock and a flat stone very similar to what MagicMan posted here earlier. She added the ground peanuts to the soup or stew she was cooking as a thickener. In Cameroon peanuts were often called "ground nuts". Women and street venders sold roasted peanuts on nearly every street corner in Douala. They rubbed the husk off with their hands and packed them in 1/5 gallon whiskey bottles and sold them for about 1,000 cfa to foreigners or 500 cfas to locals. They packed them so full there was no room for another single peanut. They used a wire that looked like a piece of a coat hanger. They used this same wire to wash the bottles using run off water from the street drains. When they were not washing bottles or packing peanuts with them they used these same wires to do each other's hair into braids and such. ::)
Did you know in Saudi Arabia and possibly other countries in the mid-East you could buy pretty good salted peanuts off street vendors. The vendor would have a wok filled with salt and they would have a gallon can full of air holes underneath filled with charcoal for a brazier. They would get the salt hot, add the raw peanuts which would cook in the hot salt. When done the vendor would remove the peanuts with a slotted spoon, shaking them well and returning most of the salt to the wok for continued use. The peanuts were poured into a rolled up green and white lined computer print-out made into a tube and sold for one riyal (about 26 cents). They tasted very much like the salted peanuts we buy in the stores here in the USA only better because they were fresh and hot.
BTW - I had been buying peanuts in the shell in the local souqs and roasting them for 5 riyals/kilo (About $1.30 for 2.2 lbs) till one day I happened to ask the vendor how much the shelled peanuts beside them cost. He told me "5 riyals/kilo". Duuuh! My mama didn't raise no fools. From that time on I bought the shelled ones. I still don't understand the economics involved there.
I assume the peanuts were imports as I never saw or heard of them being raised there.
Did you know Castor plants, often referred to as Mole Hill Beans because the seeds were supposed to kill or chase moles away, grew in central Africa. I remember seeing them growing throughout Cameroon when working and living there. I was not sure what other uses they had to justify someone bringing them to America. Reading up on it I see it was used to make castor oil and could also be used to may Ricin. My maternal always had a big one or two growing in his chickenyard.
Popular ornamental plant. Yes seeds contain ricin. There are records of children having eaten whole castor beans and later pooping them out unharmed. Tough seedcoat.
Crack that open though, and enough poison for a very poor outcome.
My grandmother always had a few growing as ornamentals I suppose. When my Dad was little he had a runny nose and fixed the problem by stuffing a castor bean seed up each nostril. A seed meeting warmth and moisture, especially a big one, swells dramatically. Trips to the doctor were rare but this got one and years of being told on :D.
I'm thinking if you drilled a tap hole in each one of those castor beans then screwed in an appropriately sized eye bolt you could tie a strong string to each and pull them out pretty easily. One thing is for sure, after Dr. WVS got through working on your dad's medical issues, he would never stick another castor bean up his snout. :D
Did you know a big cause of flooding issues in this part of the country this time of year comes from dry leaves collecting in street drains and on wire fences and such? This creates a dam effect and holds back the water. I have lost large sections of field fence because it held back the water in run-off areas. Even barbed wired fences can collect and hold back enough water to break or tear up fence posts and such.
The first thing I did this morning was go out to my mail box and make sure the leaves on and upstream from the cover on the street drain beside my mailbox was clear. Its about 30" square and covers a box about that cubed. The slots between the steel bars are about 3" wide. Many times the leaves back up and flood the road 6" deep down there and even get over and flood my log barn down on my lot.
If you look around in your travels, you will see no shortage of proactive maintenance that is not being done. People ignore leaf choked storm drains, tree limbs and debris blocking culverts, trees growing over the road and around power lines, etc.. Many times I've seen people throw sticks and leaves in the ditch by the road. So they say, many of those fires out West were from power lines contacting trees. Here, the local electric company and highway departments do limited proactive tree trimming. They act only when there is a problem or complaints. Power Co. will tell people who call about trimming by the wires to call when the line gets pulled down and then they will come trim the tree and put the wire back up.
Yeah the county road dept is responsible here when these drains get stopped up. I went out one time to clear the drain when I saw it flooding and just before I got there the county road truck came by and dropped his blade in the 6" deep water and washed my mailbox off the post. I can't say much more about that because the statute of limitations has not run out and I hear they are still looking for the body. ::) Usually they do nothing and I clear it when I see it. In this case the truck was supposed to be going somewhere to push some fallen rocks off the road. Creating a Tsunami was interesting and I am sure the guy thought it was funny but it did nothing to clear the drain and stop the problem and I still had to remove the clog with my trusty shovel. Usually I'd just punch a hole in the leaf matter which would start a serious whirlpool and start sucking the debris down and lower the water level till the pavement could be seen and was dry again. I'd just keep moving stuff around to make sure it all got sucked down and out of the way. Truth be told its actually kind of fun but it does solve a serious road hazard.
Do be careful when clearing a choked drain, water is more powerful than we give it credit for. A friend was trying to clear a jam of leaves and branches clogging their little bridge and threatening to cut around it. He got overbalanced in a tug of war with a branch and went in. Luckily he didn't get hung up on anything and could tell the tale.
we had flooding near Albany, NY and the news reported crews trying to rescue a kid swimming in the flooded creek. part of his body got sucked into a culvert and they were not able to recover him alive.
Back in the early '80s, we lived in a small, ground floor apartment. The units were actually built up on a bit of a berm (~3'+) along a wide 2-lane road. There was a torrential rain storm that caused some local flooding. We were at the low spot in all the surrounding roads so the water got up to 2 feet deep at the curbs. Probably 6-9" in the middle of the street. We were high and dry and the rain had stopped so everyone went outside to check it out. Of course, the parked cars got a little wet inside. Someone got the bright idea to pop manhole covers to let the street drain. Like a toilet bowl! I just kept thinking, not a bright idea. No one got sucked down but there were some foolish folks messing around them!
Since you mentioned manhole covers - did you know why a manhole cover is round instead of square? Surely it is easier to cut a square plate out of a sheet of metal than a circle. The reason is a round cover cannot fall through the opening while with a square cover, if you angle the cover from corner to corner it can fall in.
However, WV, I'm pretty sure those covers are cast iron. Sometimes, when scrap iron prices are high, there will be morons who will steal them and sell them as scrap. Some are savy enough to sell them far from where they stole them making it hard to catch them. They have little regard for the dangerous open manholes they leave.
Quote from: KEC on January 02, 2022, 04:20:11 PM
However, WV, I'm pretty sure those covers are cast iron. Sometimes, when scrap iron prices are high, there will be morons who will steal them and sell them as scrap. Some are savy enough to sell them far from where they stole them making it hard to catch them. They have little regard for the dangerous open manholes they leave.
It be good entertainment see a skinny meth head try to pry one of those up then lift it lol i can't recall too well but I believe they are fairly HEAVY
The worst low life scrap dealing meth heads are the ones who go break up the bronze veteran markers on the graves in the cemetery and sell them to the scrap dealer. Well, the scrap dealer who buys them rates pretty low on the low life list too. >:(
Did you know the most hardy domesticated animal in Mongolia is the horse? When the herders take their herds/flocks out into the "pasture" (Miles and miles of grasslands) they send them in this orders - Horses, followed by camels (If they have any), followed by the cows and yaks, followed by the sheep and goats. The horses are smart enough to dig through the snow to expose the buried, cured on the stem, grass below. The herders keep the animals moving so the horses expose but do not eat all the grass then the follow on animals come eat their share. In extreme weather when there is a die-off of the stock it is in the reverse order as listed above with the sheep and goats dying of starvation first and the horses being the last to die.
Did you know animals besides cows and goats are sometimes used for milk production? In Mongolia horses are commonly milked and they also milk sheep and yaks to make cheese and butter and such. In Saudi Arabia I saw some types of cheeses made from sheep so evidently they milk them there too. Camel milk was very popular there too and the locals said it was good to settle your stomach.
I was given some horse milk to drink in Mongolia and found it to be a thin sweet drink. I often drank a 1/2 liter of camel milk in Jeddah with a 100g Cadbury with hazelnut chocolate bar. Very tasty!
I knew that, but I choose to let cows make all the milk I drink. People often ask if I get milk from my goats. I then inform them that I have two castrated males.
We had goats in years past and had a couple of dairy breeds that were good milk producers. I had some that I am sure would give up to a gallon a day. We had a milk cow when I was a kid and I am convinced one good producing dairy goat would produce as much milk as most families would ever need and produce it while eating brush and briers instead of expensive, high protein dairy feed. We had ours as lawnmowers and they do a superb job of clearing brush - if you can keep them in a pasture.
In some places here in the US People rent out their goat herds to people who want to clear an area. Put a fence around it and put the goats in; they eat most everything. I remember the goats we had as kids would eat Bull Thistle.
I have been known to put up temporary fences in areas around my property to have my goats clean it up. I often just let them out and they will keep my grass short. The trouble is that they will also eat my wifes flowers and the trash and come up on the deck and go into the garage and try to eat the chicken feed and go to the neighbors house.
I had a very good milk goat named Sweetheat who loved thistles. She'd eat them like they were ice cream to her. If she'd bred true and I could have perpetuated that trait I'd have become a millionaire.
I saw a news clip one time where a guy, I think it was California, had a contract with the state road department to clear the brush around overpasses and steep ditches where they could not get mechanized equipment in there. He had a big box truck with a narrow door/ramp on one side. He'd pull up to the site lower the ramp and and let the goats out. The key factor in his operation were his highly trained herding dogs who moved the goats to and held them in the area where they were contracted to clean. Once the area was adequately trimmed he'd whistle and point and the dogs took the goats back to the ramp and inside the truck and they loaded up and moved to the next site. Very environmentally friendly and much safer than using any kind of powered equipment.
I bet the goats enjoyed it too if there is joy in a goat.
Did you know goats and sometimes horses and likely other animals will sometimes chew the bark off of trees apparently to get some kind of vitamin present? I have seen goats nip the bark off with their front teeth then they will grab the bottom of the cut part and pull long strips away from the tree. They will walk around the tree doing this and eventually completely girdle and kill the tree if they can access all of the tree trunk. They especially love to do this to fruit trees and such. I have one old volunteer pear that my goats stripped many years ago that survived only because it is growing touching a black locust and they could not get all the bark on the back side. They weakened but did not kill the tree. Elephants will do the same thing using their tusks to make the initial tear in the bark.
I bet you did not know that my wife's deceased aunt Judy once stole a goat in a small town. i bet you also did not know that she and a friend snuck it into a small-town diner/bar and let it loose to roam around. In addition to all the other things you did not know, the patrons had a great time for a while until the Sheriff showed up to remove the goat. i bet you had no idea that it really got the sheriffs goat to find it was his goat in the bar. Did any of you have a clue, that Aunt Judy was a bit of a character, was reportedly only married once for a matter of hours, worked in the aircraft manufacturing industry, smoked too much and died of Liver cancer, and we miss her big smile? I bet you did not! :) God Speed Aunt Judy! The week she was in hospice, she asked me to cut down a standing dead oak in her front yard, and we have made several family projects from that blue stained wood.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/042.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1546898789)
made for our great niece and Judys great, great niece. tree was from the yard originally from Judy's parents then she bought the house, so the tree spanned 5 generations. but I bet you knew that! :D
Doc,
If the truth be known we probably all have some relatives we don't want everyone to know about. Now we know you are descended from a long line of goat rustlers. :D
I had always heard the old cowboys insulting each other calling each other sheep rustlers or saying "he was to sorry to rustle sheep" or such but I can honestly say I never heard of anyone admitting to having a goat rustler in the family. I guess there are worse things to have happen. ;D
I wish your Aunt Judy could have met my Great Aunt Annie. She once sewed the preacher's pants legs shut when he spent the night at her house. (I never got too deeply inquisitive into how she got his pants in the first place.) She once brought a friend over to meet Grandma who was bed ridden at the time. Before she got there she told her "Ada can't hear good but she is sensitive about it so be sure to speak up when you talk to her." Before she got there she sneaked around and told Grandma the same thing about the other lady then she sat out on the front porch and listened to the two of them yelling at each other while both of them could actually hear just fine. ;)
She was my wife's aunt so more of an outlaw/inlaw. :D :D :D
My goats have girdled all of the trees in their enclosure. I even tried to shield the tree that their house is under so they would continue to have shade. They chewed through the wire I used to hold some hardware cloth and they managed to stand up tall enough to eat the bark above the wire.
Deer will sometimes girdle Staghorn Sumac trees in the winter. I don't recall seeing them do this to other trees. I like the story about the guy with goats and herding dogs. I did not know that some of my fellow forum posters come from families with members who committed such high crimes as goat kidnapping.
I like that - Kid napping.
When I was in Iraq I saw a Lt Col there who was our client contact who had a picture of his wife with 2 of their baby goats and he always said it was his wife and kids. It took most people a while to figure that one out.
Doc,
Truth be told I probably have more outlaws on my side of the family, especially Mom's side. than my dad. Dad's bunch were pretty rough and wooly but pretty decent folks.
I told Mom one time I was trying to come to her side of the family reunion. I was going to go to the PO and get copies of all the wanted posters I could find and put them in a 3 ring binder then walk around the get-together and every time I saw someone I'd walk up and look and keep flipping pages. I figured if nothing else it would add a touch of levity and under the best of circumstances I might actually make some money. She got pretty huffy about the proposal and said "All my family are not criminals." I never said they all were. Anyway, after that she quit telling me about the reunions until after they were over and everybody had gone home.
Quote from: doc henderson on January 05, 2022, 03:24:46 PM
She was my wife's aunt so more of an outlaw/inlaw. :D :D :D
Condolences on the loss of of your wife's Aunt. By the way do you know the difference between outlaws and inlaws .....outlaws are WANTED.
It has been about 8 years that she has passed. she was a breath of fresh air. she did not have kids (but for the goats) and adored our kids. thanks.
Somewhere I have a picture of my aunt as a youngster in a goat drawn wagon, in front of one of the public buildings in the nearby town. It was taken by a foreign "tourist". I'm not sure of all the details but the story was that the tourists were actually German spies getting photos of our infrastructure.
Did you know when growing bananas commercially when the stalks of green bananas are nearly full size the growers place a thin plastic bag that looks like what you get covering your clothes from a dry cleaner over the stalk? The bag has a number of cut outs apparently to let the bag breathe. When I first saw the bags on the banana stalks on a Del Monte plantation in Cameroon I thought it was to keep birds or monkeys out of them which did not make sense because the bag was so thin but I was told placing the bag over the bananas keeps them pointed down instead of spreading out and they do when ripening naturally. The bananas of an un-bagged stalk tend to open and spread apart to the point they are almost straight out from the stalk. I assume the bananas are easier to pack and possibly transport better with the bananas pointing down rather than out.
Did you know goats will climb right up a leaning tree to browse on the leaves and tops? I have see them 20-30 feet above ground and have seen pictures of trees with dozens of goats walking out on the limbs and such.
They will routinely stand on their hind legs or walk up small trees and bushes to ride them down so they can reach the tops. We had one named Gumdrop who was bad about that. One day she did not show up with the others at feed time so my wife walked the fence line to make sure she had not gotten her horns hung in the fence. She found Gumdrop had stood up trying to push over a forked tree and her right front leg slipped and was hung in the fork. She had been there possibly overnight and the leg was swollen double the size of the other. My wife go her free and she limped on 3 legs back to the barn. I gave her penicillin shots but she carried that leg and I figured she would die or at least never use it but after a couple months the swelling went down and she started putting a little weight on it and eventually recovered full use of it.
I also heard about a guy who completely restored a classic mustang convertible and parked it in his front yard. He came out to find his goats had gotten out and found several walking around on top of his baby and had ruined the fresh paint job and had punched holes in the new cover. Anybody want to guess what the lunch menu included? :D
He should have know you can't have goats and nice things.
Did you know people living along the Amazon River often build their houses on top of large Balsa logs and which act as pontoons and they tie them along the river and can move them from place to place on the river as needed/desired? We saw many homes like this in Iquitos in Peru. On the negative side the bathrooms are typically just a palm thatch room built on to the back of the home hanging out over the water. ::) I don't know how long such balsa logs last or if they ever rot or become waterlogged.
Did you know one of the most common propulsion systems in use in Peru on the headwaters of the Amazon River is the long tailed motors similar to the Go Devil marketed and used in Louisiana and Mississippi and such? They have a long shaft and look like a weedeater with a propeller on the end. They will work in very shallow water. In the Amazon they called them a "Pucka Pucka" because of the sound the engine made while in use. They also use them in Thailand and if you ever visit the floating market up from Bangkok you will see plenty of them there too.
Did you know the Baobab tree is often called the tree of life? There is one species in Australia and 6-7 in Africa and Madagascar. It has a huge, straight truck that may be 10-12 feet (if not more) in diameter that grows straight up then has a crown that looks like a mass of roots. It is sometimes called the upside down tree because of this appearance. It has a velvety green fruit about the size of a mango. The local people make medicine from the fruit, bark and pulp. In dry spells locals may tap the roots for drinking water. Wildlife eats the leaves and cattle will eat them when they fall to the ground. I think it is actually listed as a succulent plant. I have seen steps or ladders made by people driving a series of parallel hardwood stakes into the tree at convenient points to climb up. We had a big one in the compound in Guinea in West Africa that had a big nest of wild bees. It must have been at least 100' above ground. Pygmies and other local tribesmen climb up and collect the honey in such trees. The center is often hollow with a huge cavity people use for temporary shelter if they can tolerate the mambas and cobras and such who also hide there.
Did you know that peanuts originated in South America, most probably Ecuador. Spaniards took them to the Old World and they spread all the way to Southeast Asia which produces a large share of the world's supply.
Other important foods that originated in the America's are corn, tomatoes, chili peppers, and potatoes. Apples, which people think are so American (as American as apple pie) actually originated in Central Asia in Kazakhstan.
Danny,
I did not know that about peanuts. I did not see any in Ecuador when we visited there in December 2008 but we spent most of our time in the jungle and I'd bet the better place for growing them there would have been higher up on the sides of the mountains and such.
I guess I had never thought about apples coming from America. I thought Johnny Appleseed brought them from Europe somewhere. ;D
Europe by way of the silk road :)
Hard cider was the safe drink of the day in the new colonies. Johnny Appleseed would get a sack full of seed from the pomace, the spent squeezings, at the cider mill and hike out ahead of civilization planting orchards. He wasn't planting sweet dessert apples, they were the hard tart "wild" ones.
Did you know they do contoured, terraced farming in parts of Africa that looks very similar to the famous ones in the Andes Mountains in South America the Incas created? In the northern parts of Cameroon the tribesmen/farmers there have been building and maintaining these terraces for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. The soil is very thin and rocky so they build the outer retaining walls by piling stones along the edges and they haul in dirt, mulch, topsoil and animal manure and such to slowly build up the thickness to grow their crops. This technique also helps hold the limited amount of water as rainfall is very low in this area. I saw some terraces that did not look to be over 6-7 feet wide.
The wildlife in North America owes a huge debt of gratitude to Johnny Appleseed. So many birds and animals relish apples and many birds nest in the trees and eat the insects off the trees. Part of the enjoyment of wandering around outdoors in the fall is in sampling the apples off the many trees growing wild. I once caught a gray fox on New Years Day that had a belly full of apples.
A little off the central theme of this thread but did you know in Japan they typically put a pair of Temple Dogs or Temple Dragons on the gate posts to the home to protect it from evil spirits. The male dragon/dog has his mouth open to roar and scare away the evil spirits while the female dragon/dog has her mouth shut to keep the evil spirts from escaping. They also put these temple dogs/dragons on both ends of bridges to help prevent accidents on them.
We did a renovation of a mess hall in Okinawa in 1986 and used a local contractor and before the start of the work they brought in a Shinto priest to pray for a safe work place with no accidents. I thought this was a nice touch although it would probably not be considered PC in our country.
Did you know an apple tree can keep some green leaves into the middle of January in Missouri?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36921/received_1149139489159293.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1642037226)
Did you that a Mayhaw looks like a tiny apple and makes great jelly? It is a small tree that grows in wet areas in the southern USA. The fruit is about the size of a marble and typically gets ripe around late April and May. They are usually found around slow moving sloughs and boggy areas and often spend a good bit of their life in standing water especially in wet years. I remember my old mentor saw a bunch of Mayhaw blooms in a backwater area and said "When the blooms fall in the water that's about where the haws will fall."
Do you know how whales nurse their young? It is pretty interesting. The mother has an inverted nipple in a sort of slot and when the calf nudges her the slot opens and the nipple is extended and when nursing the mother can actually force the milk out to the calf. Sperm whales actually squirt the milk out into the water for the calf to feed on. Whale milk may be up to 50% fat and in some cases is the consistency of toothpaste. Some is like blubber and it is a very high energy food since the calf needs it for energy and to keep warm in their watery environment.
Milk sludge....consistency of toothpaste? I was eating lunch until I read that :)
musteat_1 musteat_1 musteat_1
Well, so HK can finish his breakfast/lunch this time we will shift topics.
Did you know next month the Bald Eagles here in WV will be laying eggs and starting to incubate them? The young will hatch mid to late March IIRC and they will stay on the nest several months till they are old enough to make training flights and leave the area.
We drove past an eagle nest in a big sycamore tree yesterday on the very tip of an island in the New River. There is an overlook on Highway 20 on the other side of the river from which you can actually look almost straight down a couple hundred yards into the nest and see the nesting parents and the young sticking their heads up once they hatch. From our side of the river you can see it on the road to Sandstone Falls not long after you pass Brooks Falls. The nest has been there many years and is easily over 10' in diameter. They will continue using it many more years and it could get half again the current size as they keep adding on to it. It sat vacant a year or so when the male eagle got hit by a CSX train several years ago but the female either found another mate or one of the eagles hatched there came home to take it over after his dad's funeral. My wife was photographing them from above several years ago and got pictures of the male eagle returning with a 4'-5' snake in his claws which he dropped into the nest.
I read or heard somewhere a group placed an Eagle-Cam on a nest so people could watch the eggs hatch and the young birds grow up. All was well and an elementary school group eagerly watched it every day. Things were fine when the parents would drop off a rat or snake for dinner but the kids got pretty upset when they'd drop off a cute little bunny or two and finally the teacher had to change the channel when the parents came home and fed junior a cute, fluffy kitten.
I was watching an ongoing video last year of a pair of eagles at Tahoe who had laid an egg or two. Lots of video of them bringing back food was interesting to watch. In the end the eggs never hatched. Apparently the unhatchedd eggs just become a part of the nest or maybe at some point while both eagles were away from the nest a critter would come in and eat it.
I remember reading a while back when they were trying to boost production of the California condor they would remove the eggs which prompted the condors to lay another. I think they were able to get a female condor to lay 6-7 eggs a year instead of the 1-2 they normally would lay. They artificially incubated these eggs to increase the size of the very small population.
Nature has a number of options to help a species to survive and laying another clutch of eggs to replace those lost, increasing the number of young a mother has, reducing the breeding age and increasing the frequency of breeding are some of the techniques she uses as needed.
I have looked into boxes that I put up for Eastern Screech-Owls and found feathers of cardinals, Cedar Waxwings, and Blue Jays, amoung others. That technique of taking eggs from a nest to get the female to lay more is called double clutching. Usually, for birds that lay several eggs, you let the bird lay 2 eggs and you take 1 leaving 1 in the nest. You just keep taking new eggs and leaving one. Some people place a fake egg in the nest so there's 1 there. Otherwise the bird will abandon the nest. Flickers (the woodpecker) might normally lay 5-6 eggs. By taking eggs, a researcher got a flicker to lay 29 eggs before quitting.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on January 15, 2022, 11:43:48 AM
I remember reading a while back when they were trying to boost production of the California condor they would remove the eggs which prompted the condors to lay another. I think they were able to get a female condor to lay 6-7 eggs a year instead of the 1-2 they normally would lay. They artificially incubated these eggs to increase the size of the very small population.
Nature has a number of options to help a species to survive and laying another clutch of eggs to replace those lost, increasing the number of young a mother has, reducing the breeding age and increasing the frequency of breeding are some of the techniques she uses as needed.
Yeah, my brother in law works for the US Dept of Fish and Wildlife in California. He has been marginally involved with that process. They seem to be having great success as long as they can keep the birds from getting lead poisoning from eating dead animals that have been shot with lead bullets and then ingesting the bullets.
FFOTS,
We have similar problems here. A rescue group were given a sick, mature bald eagle several years ago who had ingested too much lead eating fish from the local lake/streams.
They tended him for nearly a year and he made a complete recovery. They announced the release date and had a bunch of local tree huggers and even the local press out to watch the eagle turned free. They scheduled the release at a local city park on the banks of the New River just a few hundred yards below the Bluestone Dam. My free lance photographer wife and I went down to watch and she wanted pictures. The rescue lady brought the eagle out in a big fiberglass dog crate and wrapped it in a blanket to get it out of the crate. She set the eagle down and everyone was prepared to watch/photograph/video it as it flew majestically up towards the top of Elk Knob to the west.
Instead the eagle took flight to the east directly over the New River with the dam in the background. All went well till, to the horror and consternation of all watching, about 30 yards from the far bank he crash landed into the river. ::)
He floated on the surface in the swift water for a while then began to flap his wings getting a few feet closer to the bank each time. Finally he reached the overhanging limbs of the trees on the far bank and flapped hard and long enough to fly up to a limb about 20' over the river. He sat there for a long while and finally flew to another, nearby limb.
Evidently he had lost a lot of muscle tone during his months in captivity recuperating. I don't know if he ultimately survived or not.
I heard about this lost eagle the other day. He's apparently about 5,000 miles from home;
Maine Photographer Spots Rare, Lost 'Sea Eagle' In Snowstorm – CBS Boston (cbslocal.com) (https://boston.cbslocal.com/2022/01/07/stellers-sea-eagle-maine-boothbay-harbor/)
Yeah, there was a post about the sea eagle over in the Birds thread. Apparently a whole aviary club were there so it was a real big deal.
Since it is snowing all over parts of the south right now including some places that almost never get snow, did you know a freak snow storm can provide some excellent deer hunting opportunities for those of you where the season is still open? First you can see a deer half a mile against a white background. Second you can spot tracks of any deer who have been moving and track them to their beds. Third the deer are very nervous with this new experience and change to their world and you can set up some man drives with a couple or several of your hunting buddies to push deer out of thickets and such and right past a few waiting guns.
Is is common to not get snow at all during winter where you're at?
We always get a few snow sessions here. The last couple of years have been pretty light. The post above was directed more at the people in Ga, NC, SC, and possibly Ala who very seldom get snow. Our deer get exposed to snow every year. Our season ended 31 December except for a 3 day heritage hunt that ends today for people with sidelock muzzleloaders, crossbows and recurve bows. I don't hunt in those hunts.
A rare snowfall in South Ga for example might have enough to cover the ground every 10 years or so. You will have whole generations of deer who have never seen snow and if the deer season is still open there, it presents real opportunities to go kill some really big, spooky bucks. The smart old bucks that bed in the real thick stuff and watch as hunters walk 25 feet away are now visible. You can see fresh tracks of any who did move around and trail them to their beds and if you don't get a shot you can at least push them out to your partners.
Some of those techniques work here but our terrain makes it a lot harder to do things like sneaking up on them.
Since the MagicMan has been posting a lot of sage marital advice and observations over in the Jokes thread did you know there are some interesting marital customs in Africa? These are observations from various tribes:
It is common for a man to have to pay a bridal price to the father of the bride. Historically this had been cows or goats but now money, whiskey, building supplies etc. may be provided. I had one local worker in Douala Cameroon who paid for his wife by paying for the education her younger sister to a similar amount of that of his wife. In this case they figured the more education she had the more she was worth.
In some tribes the groom has to make a big batch of millet beer for the brides family and if acceptable they can continue negotiation. If they don't like the beer he is rejected. I don't know remember if he can try again later or not.
I think it was our guide in Kenya who said he bought his wife on credit. They determined the number of cows he had to pay and he could pay over time but he did have to have at least one cow to be used to throw a wedding feast for the village. I think it was him who said if he died before the debt was paid their oldest son became responsible for the debt so a grandson could come into this world owing his maternal grandfather for his mother.
If a woman died before the debt was paid she would be taken and buried in her father's cemetery instead of her husband's family.
The women or girls in the Kome (Koo maa) tribes in the Atlantika Mountains on the border between Nigeria and Cameroon pull their two front teeth when they get engaged. I heard one explanation was to make the married women less beautiful so Muslim raiders in the area would not steal them. I don't know how far back this tradition goes and fortunately I never got to observe the engagement party and teeth being extracted under such primitive conditions. I always wonder how many young women and girls (These brides marry as soon as they begin to signs of puberty - 12-13 is not uncommon) have died over the years from infection from their engagement party. We met one 30 y/o woman there who already had 15 children and a number of grandchildren.
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Above picture shows a brides wedding outfit for a bride from the village and area of Rhumsiki (Rum seeky) on the border of Cameroon and Nigeria. (My ATV key is shown for perspective) This is the entire wedding attire except for the string around her waist to hold it up. (Its a little frayed from hanging on a basket on a shelf over my kitchen sink for 20 or so years) I don't know what the bridesmaids wear. I guess she does not need attendants to hold her train. Unfortunately I also never got to witness a traditional Rhumsiki wedding either.
Did you also know it is common to have up to 3 weddings in Africa? The first is a traditional wedding where the groom buys or "Steals" the bride and the village chief performs a bit of a ceremony and records the wedding in his records. The next is a municipal (Probably not the right word) where they go to the courthouse and the judge or JP marries them and documents the wedding. The third is church wedding similar to what we have. The couple can have one or all three depending on their preferences.
Our gardener married my maid and I was invited and was the only white guy there. I think we stood for 2 hours. Monica came dancing down the aisle which was the first time I'd ever seen that. At one point a deacon or associate pastor tried to turn on a 30" pedestal fan but could not find the switch. I was only 6' away on the front row where the other maids had dragged me from my seat in the rear. Ever the helpful soul that I am I stepped forward and turned on the switch and immediately blew the preachers notes off the podium. ::) One white guy in the whole building makes it hard to blend in after something like that.
Well to each their own culture I guess lol.... sounds like a lot of hoops.
I'd like my wife to keep her front teeth.... If you have the right woman you dont need to worry if other men find her attractive or not....not gonna happen.
Yeah but we don't live in a region where they are likely to be forcibly stolen away.
I saw a Himba man in Namibia who had his front bottom teeth knocked out. The put a piece of wood against his teeth and rapped the other end smartly with a big rock.
Many tribes do/did scarification and we saw one pygmy boy in a The CAR who still had the razor blade left in as they were installing the marks in stages.
Did you know bats use a type of sonar called echolocation to identify their prey and objects in their area? They send out a call and the echo bounces off objects and they can find a flying insect or keep from flying into a tree or power line by the return signal they receive.
A good way to test this is go outside on a summer night and find a night light with a lot of bus circling it and watch for bats swooping through catching them. When you find a bat is active in the area pick up small pebbles or twigs and throw them up into the air. The bat will swoop down and catch it in the air in many cases. I have always thought about going out with a fly rod and a cork popping bug and see if I can catch some but I really don't want to hurt them and can't think if an easy, safe way to unhook one if/when I do hook him. ::)
We used to mess with them as kids. It doesn't take them long to figure out you're a wood duck :D.
Knocking out teeth and a comment brought up a memory. The designation 4F, unfit, came from the Civil War. If you didn't have 4 front teeth to bite the end of a paper cartridge off you were at a severe disadvantage.
Don,
I don't know if its the actual origin for 4F classification but it makes a good tale. I guess if they'd had dental implants back then he could still have been drafted and in boot camp they'd have drilled him in some new choppers. :D
Allergy to wool was and may still be listed as an excuse to avoid or get out of military service. I think bedwetting used to be another. ::) I suspect in combat that rule changed. ???
I saw some articles not long ago where there is more and more of a move to get women included in the draft. Apparently this is a result of all the fighting for women to be allowed into all positions including combat roles, on ships, subs, pilots, etc. I think this is another case of those "Unintended consequences".
Actually, I served with many women in the USMC and they were first rate and true professionals. I learned many unexpected things from them including the fact tampons work great to remove excess lubricant from those hard to reach spots on an M-16. A couple of Kotex maxi-pads under your packstraps help keep them from cutting into your shoulders on those long conditioning marches, etc.
A WM LCpl sat me down and showed me how to turn on a PC in 1989. If not for her I wouldn't be able to write this post here today. ;)
That 4F story is just that. The link below will explain that it's just a way labeling the different recruits.
4-F « The Word Detective (http://www.word-detective.com/2007/06/4-f/)
WV Sawmiller
I had women above and below me in rank during my service and just like men there are good and bad. Please no bad puns intended(this time).
K-guy,
I had the same experiences with women I served with. Twice my number two were women and they were top notch.
Okay, for today's topic:
Did you know that some species of fish will guard their nests and even their young once they have hatched. I remember fishing in a small borrow pit in N. Fla left from a sand and gravel operation and I'd hear splashing and see fins breaking the water periodically in a shallow area. I went over to investigate and found about a gallon of newly hatched little black catfish fry about 1/2" long which I would normally have just thought were tadpoles. I think it was a flathead catfish which was a species I had never seen there at that time. (I hear they are very common now.) The mother (I assume) was swimming circles around the group keeping them in a tight circle. She was probably about a 2 lb fish. Periodically a small bass or goggle-eye or other predator fish would approach the fry and she would viciously attack and chase them off. While I am ashamed of it now I caught the mother fish and took her home. Almost immediately predators began attacking and eating the fry. They quickly scattered. I returned that afternoon and there was no recognizable group any more and there would be a catfish fry every few feet around the edge of the pond. I have never seen another fish as diligent about keeping her children together and as well protected.
While scuba diving in in the Red Sea south of Jeddah, Saudi Arabia I accidently swam over and too close to the nest of a Picasso Triggerfish. I guess the fish weighed 5-6 lbs or so. It sneaked up and viciously attacked the tip of my swim fins. I had been warned by others in the area to be alert for them as they would attack.
Did you know that some fish can survive being completely frozen in ice? They basically go into a type of hibernation with all their systems going dormant. When the ices thaws the fish resume its normal activities.
Amazingly there have been cases of people drowning in freezing or very cold water who were revived and survived. The cold water slowing down the body's systems is critical to any chance of revival.
I remember a class when I was in University where we did experiments such as submerging animals, including classmates, in water and monitoring heartbeats and found that when even nonaquatic animals such as a chicken had their heads under water their heartrate slowed. You could expect such in a seal or even a person who spends some time in the water but it was strange in an animal that never swims. You'd have thought such animals heartrates would go through the roof when underwater.
the cold water can slow the heart rate as a result of vagal nerve stimulation. this is what causes vaso-vagal syncope, also known as a "Victorian Constitution" or fainting. any hollow organ distention, or sight of something you are not accustomed to seeing such as blood or child birth, can cause this reaction. your heart rate drops and vascular tone decreases and less blood to the brain makes you faint, unless you put your head down, (fainting accomplishes this, so do not try to hold someone up who has fainted). Survival after submersion in cold water is due to decreased metabolism, so the brain now requires very little O2 to survive. It has to be cold, like near freezing. drownings in our area often to not survive unless in the dead of winter. Now after a resuscitation and the patient does not wake up after, we drop their body temp for a few days, and they survive with brain intact. Did you know the first (very few) girl to survive rabies, did so by being cooled so the brain could weather the storm and brain irritation until the body fought off the virus. this is why the animals act so strange when they are infected. they have one hell of a headache. another virus and that darn immune system. ::) :o :)
The mention about fainting at the sight of blood is interesting. I think it is not always just the sight of blood but whose blood. My dad took my older brother when he was about 5-6 y/o in to have his eyebrow sewed up after it was cut by a falling trash barrel. His younger brother ( ::)) thought it was fun to push it over and big brother tried to stop me him and was too late that time. Dad took him to the doctor who put several stitches in his eyelid and when done, Dad passed out.
Similarly, in 2004 my #2 local Iraqi in Bagdad, while coming to work had the car in front of him at the 17 July Bridge checkpoint blown up by an IED. Anwar stayed and helped pick up body parts for a good while. While working for me his 4-5 y/o son fell and hit the corner of a table or such and cut his eyelid or forehead and he had to take him to the doctor who sewed him up. When finished, Anwar passed out.
We mentioned bats earlier but did you know dolphins use sonar to locate their prey and other animals and objects in the water? They make a high pitched whistling sound and when it bounces off object the dolphins can tell the direction and distance. They will also work together in packs or pods to herd and catch fish. They round them up and push them into shallow water and such so they can catch them.
It is definitely true that who I am dealing changes the way I deal with things. Luckily I have never had to deal with a friend or family member with a gruesome injury and I'm sure that I would be more affected than I am with patients while working. What I do notice is how I deal with poop. Many times I nearly threw up while changing my childrens' diapers, but it has never bothered me at work. Some guys will have to leave the house we are in because of it or put Vicks on their lip to deal with the smell. The respect I have for military medics who are having to treat their comrades with terrible injuries is immense.
I had a friend a few years back that would faint on the sight of blood. He was a otherwise rough around the edges/mean type, so when I witnessed his eyes roll in the back of his head and hit the ground over a gash on his hand it caught me by surprise, and there was another time it happened. each time passed out for about 30 seconds and slowly came to, confused etc..
Did you know that a bobcat will jump off of a river bridge when they feel trapped by the car that is approaching. As i was approaching the bridge this morning I noticed something running along the lane. As I got closer I realized it was a bobcat. This is a 2 lane bridge that crosses the small river right by my house. It originally jumped up to the concrete rail and must have thought better about jumping. It came back down and ran around the bridge a little, but then jumped back up on the rail and leapt off. I'm not certain how far it fell, but we were about 1/3 of the way across the bridge. It may have jumped to a tree below or otherwise I assume it fell about 30 feet to the river bank. I hope it landed on its feet and hadn't done that 8 times previously.
I had an IV for fluids while in med school. I had a kidney stone. I was getting Demerol, as a shot in my hip. the older nurse who had a wart on her nose and apparently did not care much for med students, started in the hallway and ran towards me with the needle each time I got the shot (2 times). that was all fine, but a friend came to visit, and I sat the bed up to visit, and when I looked sown, my IV line backed up with blood, and caught me off guard. I got woozy and laid back. I got nauseated another time in a small-town hospital when a teen arrived in active labor. she was not really prepared for the experience and was screaming like something was trying to get out of her body through a small opening (and it was), I was down the hall. the process was since there was no one else on OB, they left the big double door open (in case the nurse caring for her needed help, she could yell), so her screams led to imagination, but I was not involved with her care. you can always imagine more than is actually happening. I can never just set in a line of cars at an accident, I have to get out and see if I can help, and what is going on. maybe this reaction is natural, and the ones of us that overcome it, end up with PTSD. would be interesting to study. some military guys say that guys that are in for a brief period do not fully adjust to what they have to do, and others in for 20 make the adjustment. I do not know.
Frogs spend the winter in a frozen state as well, at pond bottom in the mud.
I think snakes and many turtles also "hibernate" to some fashion. They may not totally sleep but they certainly doze and don't use much energy.
FFOTS,
On the military medics they sure have my respect. I worked a project in the Gobi desert in Mongolia about 50 miles N of the Chinese border. We were in the middle of nowhere. If we heard or a saw plane it was coming to see us as there was nothing else there. We had a contract for medical support and most of the guys they sent were old military medics which was a perfect fit for the needs we had. We had falls, punctures, explosions, burns, traumatic amputations, etc. The nearest town was an hour away and they'd bring patients to us that were beyond the skill level of their "doctor". I remember our medic had to amputate most of a guys fingers on one hand who had caught it in a motorcycle chain. They brought us an illegal gold miner with a broken back and we made available a seat for him on our 3 times weekly flight to fly him to the capital of Ulaanbaatar.
I worked real closely with our medics as I was the camp manager and we'd have to either get a special medivac or make a seat available for some of our team or even a guest/local almost every week. The special medivacs were rare but getting a seat reserved on our regular flights was a normal routine. Our medics were a confidence booster to me. I knew they were not going to let me die there in in their care. I might die once I got to a big hospital but they were going to keep me alive till then.
Did you know the heart of the sable palm (State Tree of Fla) and possibly many other palm species is edible? In central Fla we called in Swamp Cabbage. It could be eaten raw or cooked. You could boil it like a green cabbage or fry a piece or two of bacon to grease the pan then fry one inch sections in it till tender. The perfect size to cut was about waist high. We'd cut it from all sides with a sharp ax then break it off. Then we'd start cutting and peeling off the sections till we got to the tender heart. Dad used to say a dull knife was best for cutting swamp cabbage. When it got too tough to cut through it was time to peel off a few more sections. If you cut too high up it got a bitter taste from the quinine that was present. It was a staple food item for the Seminole Indians and this quinine was speculated as one of the reasons they did not get malaria. Bears will sometimes pull the bud out and eat it. My grandfather said he had checked and every time he found a bear killed swamp cabbage he'd find a spot on the ground where the bear had fallen out of the tree. Evidently the would climb up, wrap their hind legs around the trunk, push off with their front feet while pulling the bud out with there teeth. When the bud pulled free they would fall backwards onto the ground below. The bud matures in a young cabbage and you would get the same amount of "meat" out of a 3' tall cabbage as one 50' tall.
My uncle who lived in Dixie County Fla used to say if you saw a cabbage the perfect height to cut there was something wrong or someone would have already cut it. It might have a wasp nest in it, an old fence ran through it or there was a rattlesnake den under it.
Many folks would get the idea how easy it would be to cut with a chainsaw but once you stuck the saw tip to the truck the string like fiber would rip free and completely choke down the saw. Maybe this is the same principle use for chainsaw chaps and pants.
Did you know that the tigers and the tide are playing ladies BB now?
Did you know I think watching basketball is about as exciting as watching a mule eat a turnip? Now if it were lady's beach volleyball I might be surfing the channels. :D
great game between the Chiefs and the Bills.
Absolutely incredible!!!! CHIEFS!!!!!!
Did you know that man's best friend may not be? I remember reading about a guy who took his bird dogs out before season for some training, which was legal as such "toughening" was allowed in his state. He took it a step further though and shot a nice mess of quail. He hid the quail in his hubcaps. On the way out the game warden had the road blocked and checked him out. Everything was great as there was no evidence of any violations of the states hunting regs and the hunter and Game Warden were having a nice conversation until Phydeaux (Sound it out) jumped out and pointed the left rear wheel. Busted! ::)
No more kibbles and bits for you, Pal!
Did you know the nut of the beech tree is shaped like a triangle? It is slightly smaller then a shelled peanut and tastes a lot like a raw peanut. It is a preferred mast food for bear, deer, turkeys, coons, squirrels, doves, chipmunks, and many other wild animals. The tree tends to have a hollow heart or cavities from broken limbs and such and makes an excellent den tree for many animals and birds such as squirrels, flying squirrels, racoons, possums, owls, woodpeckers, etc.
There was a big beech tree in Tennessee that was famous for the carved inscription "D. Boone cilled a bar on tree in year 1760". It fell a few years ago and investigators determined it was already over 200 years when old Dan killed his bear.
It is a very dense, heavy wood and makes good firewood but it can bounce a splitting maul right back at your head if you are not careful.
Did you know that Black Bears will climb beech trees to get the nuts. They reach out and pull in small branches, breaking many of them. When they get done it looks like a big stick nest, hence "bear nests." Saw these in the adirondacks once. Only an occaisional bear sighting where I live.
I'd love to see that. I suspect they would do the same with oaks and such too.
They will absolutely tear up a black heart cherry.
Did you know the limbs on a mango tree are pretty brittle? I was working a project in Douala (Doo Alla) Cameroon and the sidewalks were lined with huge mango trees that were loaded with big, sweet mangos every spring. Along about March every kid you saw would be carrying a rattan vine about 20' long with a reverse fork fashioned on the end. They would lift the vine over the limb and slide it down to the clump of mango fruit at the end and give it a jerk and pull the fruit down. I asked a local employee why they did not just climb the trees and climb out the limb to reach the fruit and pick it by hand. He told me the limbs were very brittle and would certainly snap off if they tried that.
Did you know that with many species the leader of the herd/harem spends almost all his time keeping other males of his species chased away but with gorillas the lead silverback protects the females and young from predators and other threats? If threatened a gorilla in the troop sounds the alarm and the other females and young run or climb to safety but the silverback charges toward the threat fully ready and expecting to do battle to the death if necessary. In many cases he will make a mock charge toward the threat and stop a few feet short to allow the person, leopard, hyena, etc. to see the error of their ways and beat a hasty retreat. Trust me! Seeing a huge silverback who is 500 lbs of rippling muscles 10' away and ripping small trees and bushes up by the roots, beating his chest and roaring at the top of his lungs makes you think about business you have elsewhere.
On 23 June 2003 my wife and I were trekking with members of the WWF in the Central Africa Republic on the Dzanga/Sangha Reserve. They were studying gorillas and our trackers inadvertently walked us up the trail right up to a juvenile gorilla about 5 y/o who had been sitting beside a log eating termites on a stick. He'd poke his stick in the termite hole and when the soldier termites rushed out and up the stick, he'd lick then off and repeat. When we walked up within 5-6 feet of him without either seeing the other he jumped up and hooted and ran away. We froze but it was too late as the Silverback charged to within 10-15 feet away and roared at us to leave. We froze and looked at the ground submissively. You never want to make eye contact in such cases as he sees that as a threat. (I'm not sure but I may have been too busy looking at the puddle forming between my feet to look him in the eye anyway. ::))
The week before a similar incident had occurred and the silverback walked up to the kneeling local tracker and "bopped" him lightly on the head with his gorilla fist as a warning then turned and walked away.
Unfortunately poachers know this trait and use it to kill the silverback. They will sneak up and capture a young gorilla who will immediately start screaming then when the silverback charges they will shoot or spear him.
Did you ever study the term White Elephant? It was usually more of a curse than a blessing. In India and Thailand and possibly some other parts of Asia white elephants were considered sacred. They could not be used for work purposes as other domesticated elephants could. To reward faithful service the king or Raji or whoever was in charge would sometimes give a white elephant to his chosen servants. This was a sign of great honor but also ended up being a curse as the white elephant had to be tended, fed, bathed, etc the rest of his life. (Did you know that elephants live a long time?). A relatively poor servant could be bankrupted by such a reward.
BYW, as I understand the white elephant was not necessarily an albino with snow white skin and pink eyes but a white phase with a lot of pink on its trunk and such.
Now we use the term White Elephant to indicate some household item for which we have no use or particular value.
Did you know Himba women in Namibia coat their bodies with a mixture of ground ochre and animal fat? Apparently this gives them some protection from sunburn and keeps their skin from drying out. This gives them a reddish tint to their bodies.
They also make intricate designs with their hair then pack it in mud. They wear a rawhide skin or wool cloth around their waist and nothing else unless they have a wrap for the cool mornings or evenings. Their homes are made with a mixture of sand and cow manure and dry to a consistency of poured in place concrete. The ones I saw were a pretty robust group indicating they have a much higher protein diet than most of the African tribes I saw.
Asian elephants have six sets of teeth in a lifetime. If I recall, each tooth weighs about six pounds.
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Most elephants, that live long enough, starve to death after their last set of teeth wears out. The Ringling Bros. circus elephants are in a retirement home not far from me. We used to take students out there sometimes. The one pictured is on soft food as she is on her last teeth. The males are turned out into 10' high enclosures during the daytime. They have monster truck tires as toys and frequently throw them over the fences (Feld Entertainment owns or owned Ringling and the Monster Truck Franchise).
I did not know it was 6 sets. I thought it was more like 3 but I did know as they wore out a set the new ones slid down and if they lived long enough they could eventually only eat soft food. I think papyrus is one of the softer feeds they can eat in Africa. It looks a lot like sugarcane and is pretty sweet as I understand. I saw a mastodon tooth at a park in Colorado in August and it looked almost identical to a modern elephant tooth.
If you ever go to Thailand and take one of their elephant rides the elephants trek along regular trails and periodically there will be stations looking like a deer blind with a platform in a tree and a vendor sitting up there selling chunks of sugarcane or bananas or such. The elephants automatically walk up to the platform and stop. It is kind of like a toll booth on a highway and you are not going to move till you buy your elephant a treat as he will just stand there till you do. :D
Did you know that eagles are thieves? They will as readily steal a fish or catch from another bird as they will go catch their own. Several times I have watched bald eagles on or around Bluestone Lake near my home steal fish from ospreys. The most memorable was when I was tied up to a brushpile fishing for bluegills and spotted 2 big birds flying toward me. When they were about 75 yards away I watched the bald eagle in back literally crash into the osprey in front who was carrying a fish. Both birds went tumbling through the air and the fish fell into the river below right beside the bank. Both birds recovered themselves in mid-air and the eagle made a tight circle down to the water, lifted up with the fish in his claws and flew away. The osprey followed about 10' behind apparently hoping the eagle might drop the fish. I never saw him attack and try to take it back. I was sorry for the osprey but thrilled to have been able to observe nature at her best.
I watched a pair of ospreys swooping at and harassing a young eagle in a tree one time on the same lake. Neither had any food to steal or protect and the ospreys were probably just angry that another fish stealing eagle was in their neighborhood. That eagle probably had never stolen a fish in his young life (yet) and no doubt that helped cause him to have a complex and hate all ospreys the rest of his life. :D
We're they War Eagles? That is grounds for harassment.
If they were they would have been carrying off a bulldog to drop in the lake then when the dog hit the lake and the fish swam up on the shore to get away from the ugliness they'd have had a fish fry and invited all their friends to come join them. :D
With cheese grits and hushpuppies :D.
I don't know how many of you butcher your own game but did you know many people eat the skins of many animals? Hogs are typically scraped instead of skinned with the hog being dipped in hot water or draped with hot wet cloths to loosen the hair which is then scraped off. Pork rinds are the fried crispy air puffed skins.
I understand possums are often scraped so the skin can be saved and eaten. Many birds are plucked an the skin left on. Dipping in hot water loosens the feathers and sometimes they are passed quickly through a hot flame to singe off small hair like feathers.
My driver in Cameroon in February 2008 ran over a gray squirrel about the same size as one of ours. He stopped and went back and got it and stored it in the car till we cooked supper 4-5 hours later. I had small hot fire made of corn stalks and such and after we heated a pot of something, he spread the coals out and tossed the squirrel into the hot coals and rolled him around a few times then scraped the stubs of the hairs off with my Leatherman blade. Then he split the squirrel and removed the guts and made an X out of two sticks passing them through a back leg then the opposite front leg and placed it in front of the fire to cook turning it several times for even cooking. It cooked pretty quickly and he ate half for dinner and saved the rest for breakfast. He informed us if he were back at his village he would not have been allowed to keep the squirrel to himself but would have had to turn it over to the village elders for them to distribute. Anyway, he did eat the skin along with the meat. He is the only one I ever saw save and eat the skin of a squirrel.
BTW Danny, I watched an old Jimmy Stewart movie - The man from Laramie - last night and one of the supporting actors was John War Eagle. I assume he must have been the fearless Apache war chief.
I checked the other actors to see if Billy Hikes His Leg, the semi-famous UGA alumni was in it but I think he was still in rehab again at the time.
Good that he was a supporting actor. Those War Eagles need a lot of supporting.
Did you know, the wintering eagles are at the South end of Onondaga Lake in Syracuse, New York near the shopping mall. Some are reporting over 50 at a time. Onondaga Lake has a big population of Gizzard Shad. The shad are at the northern edge of their range and many die off in the winter as they can't handle the cold water temperatures. Makes for a big food source for the eagles, Double-crested Cormorants, various gulls, and several kinds of fish-eating waterfowl, mergansers, goldeneye, etc. and a couple of Great Blue Herons. There are now 3 or 4 good places you can go in the area to see them. Just driving around on errands I've seen some eagles the past few days. In winter when the waters are ice-covered they cruise around the landcape looking for deer carcasses, which are an important winter food. There are a few Golden Eagles in New York in the winter and they are on the hunt for dead deer.
If you want to go see eagles in Alaska the best place is usually around the town dump. They will be scavenging and possibly catching small game scavenging there too.
BTW - John War Eagle | Western Series Wiki | Fandom (https://western-series.fandom.com/wiki/John_War_Eagle)
Did you know a kite is a raptor? We had big brown birds in Afghanistan that looked very similar in size and color to golden eagles and I did not know if they were hawks or eagles but I later found they were Kites. I never saw one of them attack or catch any prey and assume they were more of a scavenger than a hunter.
Florida ha a couple kinds of kites. One, the Snail Kite, eats a certain kind of snail and little, if anything else.
Did you know that certain trees and plants require a certain number of cold (and maybe even below freezing is the requirement) days before they bear fruit productively the next season? This largely determines which regions of the country/world where they can be planted productively. I am thinking apple, peaches and cherries are examples. If these are not proper examples please correct me and if you know of others please post some more examples.
Then again other tropical trees cannot stand the cold and lose their fruit or die if it is too cold. Citrus trees and bananas are some that immediately come to mind for this situation.
In some cases scientists have been able to develop new varieties of these trees that require less cold and will grow in warmer temps or that will live and bear in colder climes than their ancestors.
It is called a "Cold Sum".
I think of it as a stress reaction, stress a plant and it will try to produce fruit/seed/runners in order to save itself and the species. What WDH said.
Did you know that many snakes hiss but a King Cobra actually growls? Apparently it has a chamber in its throat that causes its sound to resonate at a lower frequency sounding more like a growl than a higher pitched hiss. There is also a species of ratsnake in SE Asia who growls and has a similar throat arrangement.
The King Cobra can grow to over 19' long and raise up and look you in the eye. You'd think that would would be terrifying enough without him growling at you. ::) She is also the only snake I ever heard of who builds a nest for her eggs. She makes loops around piles of leaf matter and such to make a nest that looks similar in size and shape to an alligator nest and apparently the female hangs around and guards until and maybe shortly after the young hatch. The rotting leaf matter gives off heat and helps incubate the eggs like an alligator nest does.
Have you ever skinned a beaver? I may/probably did not do it right but it was the hardest animal I ever tried to skin at least in respect to the hide pulling free from the muscle. As I remember I had to cut it free the whole way. Most animals have a layer of fat or such between the hide and flesh and the two separate reasonably easy.
I was watching a new episode of swamp people last night and the Edgar family were skinning a big alligator and the elder Edgar commented and pointed out the hide had to be cut away from the meat the entire length and width of the gator. I have never skinned a gator so I was surprised at that. Also they seemed to be ripping the gator up the middle and I thought the belly skin was the preferred hide and was cut on both sides about where it turned from white to black then the belly hide was pulled free and the upper skin was largely waste/by-product.
If there are any gator skinners reading I'd love to see your comments and experiences here.
Skinned a Canadian icon! I didn't even know people ate beavers...
HK,
I thought most trappers ate some, if not all, of the beavers they caught. I have eaten them at wildlife suppers. They should be good eating as they are very clean eating only willow bark and such.
Had a BIL that would take any beaver, his cooking technique made it palatable
I'd definitely be interested in trying one just never known anyone to trap for them. Mostly snowshoe hare
Yes, beavers are tough skinning. I used to cut the feet off with brush shears, split from anus to the chin, then start skinning and free up the back end. Then hang it up by the tail and finish like you would a coon, fox, etc. No need to go to great length to make it palatable, it is very good. And all predators love it so it is great bait. I have a big institutional size cooking pot. I cut the beaver in two after eviscerating and rinsing. Put the whole thing in that pot with water and slow cook on the wood stove for several hours. Discard the water and remove the meat from the bones (like pulled pork). Put the meat in a crock pot to heat through and stir in a bottle of Sweet Baby Ray's Honey & Hickory BBQ sauce. Don't cook after adding sauce, just heat it up. Put it on a hot dog roll. And, while handling the beaver, do not contaminate the meat with the caster or oil glands. Castors are readily bought by fur buyers, worth more than the pelt. Beaver heart and liver are good to eat, too. And dogs love beaver meat. HK, talk to your local game warden to ask who traps beaver. Be cautious about eating beaver from polluted water areas.
The folks I knew who used to eat them mostly quartered them, wrapped them in foil with BBQ sauce, then baked them slow till tender. The only one I ever shot and skinned I left the carcass outside overnight planning on baiting a catfish hole or such with it and when I got up my dogs had eaten all of it. They would not eat a coon so they sure thought it was worth eating.
I don't remember the castor but skinned an otter and gave the hide a jerk to free it from the body around the anus and I got squirted real good from the scent gland. After throwing up a few time and scrubbing half the hide off my body I found all kinds of animals still tried to get real intimate with me for weeks after that when I went in the woods.
I'm still waiting on the alligator skinners to respond BTW. ;D
The Bulldogs skint the Alligator and plucked a War Eaglet, but you already knew that.
:D :D :D
Good one.. in jest, I'm sure.
I concede. :( :'(
Now if anybody else out there knows how to skin an American alligator I'd love to hear from you.
There are two schools of thought depending upon whether you will sell the hide or have it tanned for display:
How to skin an alligator - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHUuajelldA)
This method cuts down the belly and keeps the hide for tannning.
https://www.liveoutdoors.com/hunting/223839-7-steps-to-skin-alligator/
This method preserves the valuable belly hide. Scroll down for the skinning video.
Lynn,
Nice videos. It looks like on both they did have to cut the meat away from the hide.
Have you ever skinned a gator? If so which method did you use?
I ate some camien in Ecuador the hunter had not skinned. He just cut it in chunks and smoked it with other game and such and it tasted like good roast pork but I was surprised he had not skinned it. I have eaten it and American alligator is restaurants and it was very good when properly prepared.
No, my late Brother was the Alligator Hunter.
Did you ever help him skin or butcher one?
My grandfather hunted them up till just before he became one of the early game wardens in the state of Fla. He never did talk about saving the meat and once I asked him and I think he said he used to save and smoke a little to feed his dogs. It was not considered a prime cut of meat back then apparently.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on February 04, 2022, 09:37:18 AMIf there are any gator skinners reading I'd love to see your comments and experiences here.
I have skinned 8-10 gators. Largest was 12'6'. Had the hides tanned from several of them and a shoulder mount made from the 12'6. I cut on the side of the belly, not the center. I sold one gator whole and sold three of the skins I had. The belly is very valuable so you don't want to nick or damage it. Takes a considerable amount of time, does not peel like a deer. I recall the hide has to be completely cut away being careful not to nick or cut too deep. The gators were all legally caught and tagged over several years hunting in Florida. The center strips or tenderloins in the tail are generally thought to be best for eating. There is also a good size piece of cheek/jaw meat about the size of a small cantaloupe that is relatively tender. The legs, shoulders, and tail surrounding the tenderloins are tougher and usually require pounding to tenderize. Some people grind it like burger. I deep fried mine, tasted sort of like a fishy chicken if that makes sense.
Did you know that most deer in the south are hung up to skin while larger animals such as moose, elk and bear that are hunted out west are generally skinned on the ground? I had never seen an animal skinned on the ground till we observed a steer being butchered in a Masai camp in Kenya. They did an excellent job of using the hide to keep the meat off the ground. As they cut it up every member/family of the tribe got a predetermined cut of meat. We watched one little boy about 4-5 y/o was handed a long cut of meat 16-18 inches long that weighed 5-6 lbs I guess. He was carrying it home and dropped it in the dry 12" deep cow manure that was about the consistency of dry sawdust. He picked it up and shook it off and resumed his trip home.
I saw a family in Mongolia skinning a sheep and they also skinned it on the ground being careful to use the hide to keep the meat off the ground.
All the deer I ever saw skinned we hung from a limb, rafter, ladder or skinning rack. If you ever visit Africa and see an elephant hung by his heel with a big rope thrown over a Mopani or Mahogany limb you will know that some southern redneck bought a lottery ticket at the 7-11 and won and took his dream trip of an Africa elephant hunting safari.
Ya, that's how we skinned and butchered out the Moose that our group got up on the Koyukuk River back when I was stationed in Alaska!
Worked pretty good!
Yeah, when you kill an animal that big in brush that is often very small and the nearest tree is that far away that is the only reasonable way to do it I guess.
Since so many of us are experiencing snow, ice and sub-freezing temps and conditions I figured I'd add a nicer summery topic for today. Did you know there are a number of factors that attract mosquitoes (And cold weather is not one of them)? They include dark colors, sweat, breath (CO2), fragrances (Perfumes, body lotions, scented soap, etc.), blood type and possibly even pregnancy.
In Africa where mosquitoes were a serious health issue especially due to malaria, CO2 traps were often used to attract and kill mosquitoes. Some were big ones used outside with a propane gas tank. Others were little plug in units similar to scent stations used in the USA.
Our medical advisor suggested wearing boots and blousing trousers as sweaty socks attracted them to the ankle region. He also suggested using the clothing treatments with pyrethrin which killed or repelled mozzys. Heat from ironing and dryers destroyed the pyrethrin effect.
I have seen ultra-sonic devices sold to repel mosquitoes. Have any of you had any success or have any recommendations for using them?
when our kids were young, we spent a ton on a machine that ran on a 20# LP tank. It produced CO2. and after 24 hours you would have half a handful of dead bugs. it was a lot of effort to take out a few mosquitoes. we use repellant, and occasionally treat the yard before a big family thing.
we try to grade the yard for drainage and dump buckets and such.
Did you know you can tell the sex of a wild turkey by looking at their droppings? A gobbler leaves droppings in the shape of a J.
Betcha never heard of that!
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on February 07, 2022, 09:35:59 AMDid you know you can tell the sex of a wild turkey by looking at their droppings? A gobbler leaves droppings in the shape of a J.
My turkey hunter friend told me that one. I thought he was gonna taste one to tell me the sex of the turkey, just like he did with the deer pellets! :D
This gobbler was a late bloomer.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Tom_strut.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1644247149)
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I w(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/D3EF8842-F033-4EA1-8116-DD4B5FC4B83B.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1644289685)
This picture was taken well over 30 years ago, before I hit 20. I've skinned a few of them but never to reap any value. This little one visited my pond during one spring and evidently hit a plastic worm. If you flip them over, they will go to sleep. We caught some pretty good-sized ones (10-12') over the years. I caught one about 5' in my garage under my 68 Bronco one evening. I know a few folks who are registered and licensed gator catchers. Several years ago, a 13' 2" gator was caught in my neighbor's front yard. This thing was as big around as a barrel.
Cavey,
I never killed or skinned one. A buddy of mine and I caught one about 3' long while gigging frogs on the Flint River near Albany Ga about 1985. It amazed me how flexible he was, We released him unharmed on the spot.
While on a photo safari in the Okavango Delta in Botswana with my wife on June 25th, 2010 we caught a baby Nile crocodile about a foot long, took a few pictures then released him before his mom found he was missing.
Kea are a native alpine parrot here in NZ. They are very intelligent and inquisitive, and kleptomaniacs :D
Dunedin family has holiday break hijacked by kea - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd1jkFUbqvg)
Not only do we now know parrots can be kleptomaniacs did you know they also can live a very long time? I looked up articles on their ages and 50 years seemed common, some up to 75 and one article even reported that one was supposed to have lived 140 years.
This sounds like a good way to get even with your kids. Buy and train an obnoxious parrot then when you die your children and even grandchildren will be stuck with him. I mean, how could anyone refuse to take care of Granny's pet parrot?
That reminds me of a joke I heard one time. A lady asked her old maid friend why she did not get married. The old maid replied "Why do I need to get married? I already have a cat that stays out all night, I have a fireplace that smokes and a parrot that cusses all day."
Did you know that if there are are not enough hollow trees around squirrels will make leaf nests in which they will raise their young? Apparently hollow trees are safer and preferred but in young timber where there are few hollow trees they have to build leaf nests. Squirrels also den in the nests in the winter for insulation from the cold. They will have a hole in one end just big enough to get in and out and I assume they curl up inside with their tail over their nose and may even push a few leaves over to seal the entrance.
An effective way to hunt squirrels where there are plenty of leaf nests is to walk around and if the tree is small enough, shake the tree enough to move the nest. If there is a grapevine or such running up the tree, pull it to shake the nest. If the nest is in a big tree with no vine sometimes you can grab a broken limb and rub it violently on the side of the tree and the squirrel may think a predator is climbing out and they will leave the nest. If possible take along a kid with his BB gun or slingshot to shoot the nest and see if you can chase one out. The kids love this and it is a great way to spend time with them and get them started hunting. Shooting a nest with a shotgun or rifle is illegal in some states and you risk killing the squirrel in the nest and losing him which we would not want to do.
If you can find a big fresh built nest in the fork of a large tree in the sunshine in the winter on a windless day you can expect it to be occupied.
BTW - did you know there is a species of squirrel in southern New Guinea... Oh never mind.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on February 09, 2022, 10:58:27 AM
..........
BTW - did you know there is a species of squirrel in southern New Guinea... Oh never mind.
OH, by all means, please do continue.... :) :D
Did you know that many red and gray squirrels build their nests in houses, usually in the soffit or attic; much to the dismay of the homeowners. The grays enter and stay up high and the reds may enter at any level and may go all through the walls, basement and attic. They generate more complaints and do more dollars in damages than any other animals. They are the most common animal that wildlife control people deal with. Flying squirrels like attics, but are less often encountered.
Wondering around the woods behind my house last weekend I took a picture of a squirrel for WV. ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/_DSC0868.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1644444635)
Quote from: Hilltop366 on February 09, 2022, 05:11:19 PM
Wondering around the woods behind my house last weekend I took a picture of a squirrel for WV. ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/_DSC0868.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1644444635)
That little BUGGER!!
Bird feeder near by? He's plotting...
Have a lot of them reds around. They are persistent :D
Quote from: KEC on February 09, 2022, 03:01:33 PMFlying squirrels like attics, but are less often encountered.
We were reroofing a house last year, stripping off the old onduline mess and putting on metal. When we got to about the end of the ridge tearing off I was below my partner who was right up by the ridge. He was facing down towards me. I just happened to look up as a flying squirrel popped up out of the exposed ridge gap, launched to DB's shoulder and out into space doing a long glide, a good hundred feet. He didn't quite make it to the tree line but he hit the ground like his feet were on fire and his hind end was catching, and back up the first tree in front of him. DB didn't know what had run over him :D
I dealt with a lot of squirrels when I did wildlife control work. Near as I could tell, flying squirrels do not store food in houses/dens and they usually don't have much body fat. I once removed flyers from an attic using rat snap traps and when I checked traps they had eaten part of the ones in the traps. It was during harsh winter weather, cold and snowy and food scarce. Flyers will bore tunnels through snow on the roof. Reds tunnel through snow on the ground. I like them all a lot better when they stay out of buildings, leave the birdseed alone and aren't eating baby birds, which reds do a lot.
When I was stationed at the USMC Logistics center in Albany GA I had a civilian co-worker who was complaining about noises in his attic all night and when he got up there to check he found a bushel or so of pecans stored there. He asked me and I could not understand as squirrels would not be active at night then we later found it was flying squirrels which made sense for the nocturnal activity. He certainly had them storing pecans in his attic.
Hilltop,
Thanks for the picture but my guy is looking for Fox squirrels.
I had to go with my wife to Radford VA to take her sewing machine to the shop for repair. I looked for fresh road kill on the way over and back but the only one I saw was pretty torn up.
Big house catty corner across the street from us, the new young couple owners had tree questions. I'm standing there when hubby informs me that she loves squirrels, wants them in the attic.
They don't live there anymore. They aren't married anymore. As far as I know, the new owner of the crib is not a squirrel fanatic😄
One time I heard noises in my attic. Got a flashlight and looked up though the attic access door. Was met by a mother raccoon and her little one. She had came in through a vent for a kitchen fan that she knocked the duct pipe off. The next morning I managed to scare her and her kit out the vent. Went up there and covered the vent with some heavy screen so she couldn't get back in. Next day after coming home from work found that she had ripped the entire vent out as well as a bunch of shingles and flashing to get back in. Went up to scare her out again. This time there were 2 little ones so I suspect she went back to rescue her 2nd. Momma racoons are quite determined when it comes to their young.
Yes, a mother coon will tear a place up to get to her babies. Rule 1, 2 and 3: make sure all the animals are out before closing up the entry point. I generally recomend removing all of the animals from the building and killing them, they are habituated to life in a building. Then close up the entry hole. Some people will first close the hole. If the animal is outside it will chew its' way back in (doing more damage). If it is inside when they close the hole the animal will chew its' way out or die trying. Hope like heck it dies where you can find and dispose of it. WV, it could be that the nuts in that guys' attic were put there by Red Squirrels; they store a LOT of food inside.
KEC,
As far as I know there are no red squirrels in the Albany Ga area. I never saw or heard of them there. We had grey and fox squirrels there.
When you say "Red Squirrel" I am thinking of what is commonly known as a Pine squirrel or a FairyDiddle is the local name for them here in WV where we do have them. Ours are about half the size of a grey squirrel or roughly twice the size of a chipmunk.
I can't really say I remember seeing how or where a fox squirrel stores his food although it is common to see one bounding across the road with a walnut in his mouth. I have watched Grey (Cat) squirrels furiously burying all kinds of mast - beech, acorns, grapes/muscadines, chestnuts, etc. Since they are nocturnal, I never saw flying squirrels out feeding - I only saw them when I had chased them out of their dens/holes/nests.
Grey squirrels are common in the valley area of NS, they are spreading because they are bigger and out compete the smaller red squirrels although they don't let up easy they're ferocious
Quote from: wisconsitom on February 09, 2022, 06:47:23 PMBig house catty corner across the street from us,
That is known as a "step neighbor in law". :D
Lynn,
I think that may be a Mississippi term. :D I don't remember it being used anywhere I lived.
All,
Since we have been talking about squirrels and chipmunks are a type of squirrel, did you know chipmunks will store a lot of food and sometimes they put it in inconvenient and even dangerous places? Ever go to start a tractor or ATV you have not used in several months and find the air filter or such full of acorns? I find lots of hulls between my stickered lumber rows where they ate a walnut or acorn or such.
We once had a pet chipmunk I rescued from Ugly, our tortoiseshell cat, in October. Simon escaped in the house and was not seen for several months. Then one evening along about the end of December while my wife and son were watching TV, Simon suddenly popped out of the back of the portable dishwasher, ran over to the dog's dish and stuffed his cheeks full of dry dogfood and ran back for the dishwasher. During his sojourn with us with his unlimited supply of dry dogfood he had gotten huge and it was now a very tight squeeze beside the dishwasher hoses so our son made a grab for him and caught and returned him to his long vacant bird cage. Sean got to thinking about it and took the back panel off the dishwasher and found about 25 lbs of dry dog food stored there. Simon had been a very busy boy and what amazed me was that he had not been noticed by us or our obviously lazy dog (No that was pre-Sampson days) and cat. ::) They certainly were not doing their job!
Even chipmunks need to make a living.....
Danny,
Trust me - Simon was in tall cotton.
BTW - as our man on the ground in South Ga, have you ever seen Red/Pine squirrels there as we discussed earlier or just Cat and Fox squirrels?
No red squirrels. They do not naturally range south of the Appalachian mountains as I understand it. I have plenty of gray squirrels and some fox squirrels.
Thanks for the on-site confirmation. I knew I never saw one when I was in the Albany Ga area but I was only there a few years and you have many more years of observation to rely on.
Quote from: HemlockKing on February 09, 2022, 05:24:01 PM
Quote from: Hilltop366 on February 09, 2022, 05:11:19 PM
Wondering around the woods behind my house last weekend I took a picture of a squirrel for WV. ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/_DSC0868.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1644444635)
That little BUGGER!!
Bird feeder near by? He's plotting...
Have a lot of them reds around. They are persistent :D
No feeder near here, I'm about ½km from the house.
So....it may be that flying squirrels do store food. As to the Red/Pine Squirrels, I removed a big garbage bag of Staghorn Sumac seed clusters from a false ceiling in a garage once. Another time I stuck my head up into a big space between 2 interior walls in a house and all the wall voids were filled to the top with Black Walnuts. A nearby water pipe had a slow leak so they didn't even have to go outside for a drink of water. Another time Reds had filled the soffit area of a car port with walnuts, it was June and they were still feeding on that hoard. A common denominator with houses with Red Squirrel problems was an old house with lots of conifers and Black Walnut trees around the yard.
Their affinity for conifers is why we have always referred to Red squirrels as Pine squirrels. Yes they like walnuts and I am sure they eat acorns and beech mast and probably grapes and other fruits and seeds but I think the most dependable food source for red squirrels is pine/conifer seeds.
I don't know where the name came from and I never heard a red/pine squirrel called a Fairy Diddle till I moved to WV.
I just checked on line and see flying squirrels may also be called a Fairydiddle in some areas. I could see a flying squirrel gliding through the air being associated with a fairy more so than a red squirrel.
Since squirrels seem to be the topic du jour, Did you know the fur of the flying squirrel is extremely soft? I would compare it to the fur on a chinchilla while the fur on other squirrels feels pretty rough to the touch. It does not seem to be very thick but is like pure velvet to touch. Also the hair on the tail grows out to the sides making it flat for use as a rudder in flight rather than sticking out in all directions like on other squirrels. The tail looks to be about an inch wide, maybe 1/8" thick and is about 4" long.
I used to have Flying Squirrels glide in from the woods on the hill, and land on the side of the house and then crawl along the siding, over to the bird feeder box on the windowsill.
When they left, they would climb to the peak of the roof and glide their way back to the woods!
It's easy to tell that they are nocturnal, because their eyes are huge compared to other squirrels!
The Marty Feldman of squirrels.
Yes, flying squirrel fur is soft. I shipped a pelt to a place to be tanned and they lost it; sent me back a red fox. I sent that back but never got the flyer. Canadian trappers trap and pelt Red Squirrels, though prices may be low now. Around here, a guy will buy Red Squirrels frozen whole. Taxidermists like to do mounts of predators carrying prey. Like a fisher carrying a squirrel. If you get an animal such as an albino, melanistic or otherwise highly unusual (legally taken, of course), clean it up and freeze it whole. Call a taxidermist and see if they will buy it. If you trap a lot, you may want to make it your business to find a taxidermist who will buy unusual critters. Don't skin it yourself unless you really know how to do it for taxidermy. I know a guy who got a black coyote and skinned it; got about half as much as he would have gotten unskinned. I saw a black coyote while out hunting. It looked so much like a dog that I didn't shoot it.
KEC,
I guess the flying squirrel would be mounted on a piece of leather or red felt or such which should make a pretty mount. I have seen them mounted as if in flight and hung by monofilament fishing line which makes a neat mount. I have seen predators mounted with a squirrel or chipmunk or such in his mouth and agree it would be a neat mount. I am trying to catch or shoot (Even tried to run over one yesterday and been checking for fresh road kill ::)) a pair of fox squirrels for a guy in Michigan. I have till the end of the month before our small game season ends but the weather and a new tenant, a big Cooper's hawk, where I have been looking/hunting has not helped any. I'll try to find him a couple of half eaten walnuts to hold in their claws which also makes a neat mount.
Back in my youthful days, I enjoyed squirrel hunting with my redbone hound named hambone, but mostly I called him bonedoggle. Picked him up as a puppie from the the animal shelter. We would pick a spot and sit and wait for the squirrels to come out before dark. He would lay there beside me and scan the trees for squirrels, just like I would do.
I tanned a large male gray squirrel with chromium sulfate and stitched up a drawstring bag with rawhide to hold my .22 bullets. Gray squirrel skin is tough. It is a beautiful little drawstring bag; I will give it to my grandson when he gets old enough to shoot.
Danny,
Some outdoor magazines used to have ads for deerskin ditty bags with drawstrings similar to what you describe and I always wanted one but was too poor to order one. I used to use a little cloth bag like that which came with Bull Durham tobacco in it. Our old next door neighbor rolled his own cigarettes and those bags were a big hit with the neighborhood kids to keep marbles and .22 bullets and such in. The same was true with Grandpa's old flat Prince Albert cans.
I remember those Prince Albert cans.
Maybe it was a marketing thing. PA flat cans to fit in the back pocket of a pair of overalls. Round metal snuff box cans and the Bull Durham cloth bags with a drawstring and a paper tag on the end for the user to bite and hold with his teeth while the user closed the bag with one hand while holding a cigarette paper folded into tray full of tobacco ready to lick and seal in his other hand.
All the containers were very desirable to the kids and grandkids for storing their valuables. ;)
Did you know the hermit crab does not have a hard shell like others and finds an abandoned shell to occupy? I think he lives there till he gets too big then crawls out and moves to a bigger empty shell. He crawls around dragging his shell with him.
I remember snorkeling with my very pregnant wife in Okinawa in 1978. She was as buoyant as a cork and could not dive down 4' to get a shell or such so when she spotted one she liked in the clear water she'd point it out to me and I'd go get it. She found one real pretty shell like that one day and pointed to it and I dived down and collected it. I did not have a bag or pockets or such so I stuffed it down the front of my swimsuit only to find shortly thereafter it had an occupant. ::) :o I am lucky it was just a hermit crab and not one of the poison snail shells with a poisonous barb they would sting you with. I probably should be posting this in the "Did something dumb" thread instead of here but maybe the statute of limitations has expired. I can assure that was a mistake I never made again.
WV, Careful there, taking wildlife with the aid of a motor vehicle can get you in trouble.
"Officer, I swerved to miss him but he must have zigged when I zagged." ::)
Quote from: Chuck White on February 11, 2022, 06:41:01 PM
I used to have Flying Squirrels glide in from the woods on the hill, and land on the side of the house and then crawl along the siding, over to the bird feeder box on the windowsill.
When they left, they would climb to the peak of the roof and glide their way back to the woods!
It's easy to tell that they are nocturnal, because their eyes are huge compared to other squirrels!
Last year when I was clearing fields I cut down a pine that had been occupied by flying squirrels, pretty sure I posted about it, anyway it was quite something to see 3 of them climb up a tree to glide down multiple times to look for their home that had just been hacked down. They also like to form nests in the witches broom mess of branches up in spruce trees.
If you put a nest box up, bigger than bluebird size, up to Wood Duck size, the flying squirrels are likely to use it. Put some shavings in it and they will take it from there.
I looked up a design for a flying squirrel box. It was pretty neat. I don't remember the exact dimensions but it was about 3' tall and about 8" square and had 3 chambers 10-12 inches tall. It had a 1.5" diameter hole in the bottom and another in the top chamber to the outside and the floors separating the chambers had a 1.5" square cut out of one corner on each floor so the flying squirrels could pass between the "rooms" and if a snake or such came in the bottom the squirrels could climb up and escape out the top exit. I don't remember how high they said to attach it on a tree or if they said put shavings in box for nesting material. I assume rough cut lumber is preferred so the squirrels can climb it easier.
The article did say the bottom chamber was the nursery with mother and baby/infant squirrels and the juvenile/teenagers and adults lived in the upper chambers.
I do know that I have found old dead trees with 6-8 adult squirrels in them so there will be multiple generations living together.
I did end up putting about 12 nest boxes up, put grass clippings and wood shavings in with a twig or 2 to climb up to the hole. I believe 2 or 3 of those to be occupied by flying squirrels, about 7' high. 1 other box was resided by white breasted nut hatches which successfully raised 4 or 5 birds. The others are chickadee stash boxes it seems they come and go periodically but dont seem to reside permanently. I have 3 bigger boxes for wood ducks and such last year mostly grackles took up the boxes but I seen some wood ducks checking them out
Did you know there are some significant difference between buzzards and vultures? Buzzards have a longer neck and feathers on their heads while vultures have bald heads. Buzzards have stronger feet and peaks to help kill their prey while vultures tend to eat mostly dead prey. Vultures rarely live in colder climates. Buzzards tend to migrate more than vultures.
Buzzards are old world birds. The majority of the Turkey Vultures here go south in the winter. I have seen as many a 25 vultures together here in midwinter. A place near here where they put road-killed deer has Turkey Vultures (TVs) all winter, I saw 14 there recently and there are also 3 Black Vultures there, I saw 2 a couple days ago along with 4 eagles. A couple of years ago I found a flying squirrel with 2 babies in a bluebird size box in the hedgerow near the house, box ~4-5' above ground.
We have lots of turkey vultures around our local boat landing where they eat dead carp and dead bait and such. They will light on the vehicles and scratch the paint and crap all over them and are a general nuisance. There will often be several dozen there.
I had an old neighbor about 1.5 miles down the road who fished almost every day when he was in decent health. He'd throw his fish heads and such in the creek behind his house and he had a regular vultures roost established there with dozens in and around his house. His neighbors were not somewhat thrilled.
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This one lit on the power lines a few hundred yards from the neighbor's house but I have been assured he will not do that again.
We used to catch flying squirrels by walking through the planted pines and looking for small dead trees with den holes in them. We have found them as low as 3' high. We'd tap on the tree, he'd stick his nose out and we'd clap our hand over it to keep him in and break off the tree and take it home. We had to be careful not to break the post off at the bottom of his hole or he'd get out the bottom and we'd be scrambling to grab him.
When I was hunting for them I'd take a burlap catch bag but if I happened to come up on one when I wasn't expecting them I'd take my sock off and tie him up in it. If I had a long sleeve shirt I could tie them up in a sleeve if the weather permitted me to remove it.
Did you know many plants are distributed through the droppings of birds and animals that eat them? These plants generally have a very hard to digest seed coating that allows it to pass completely through the digestive system of the bird or animal. Tomatoes will even survive processing through a waste water treatment plant. Trees/Shrubs such as holly, chinaberry, and autumn olive are famous for growing in long rows under fences and powerlines where birds roost and pass the seeds before flying off their roost.
Persimmon and cherry are also common fencerow trees.
So are multi-flora roses and blackberries.
Kentucky coffee tree is now a "stranded species". The one beast big and tough enough to eat the bean-like seeds, then poop them out thus enhancing germination hasn't been seen in a while....the mastodon. Only people planting this tree now, no natural regen.
I think the Ivory palm nut in southern Africa is like that and spread by elephants.
I think honeysuckle is another local invasive spread by birds.
ERC in Ks. famer/ranchers clear the pastures, but not under the fences.
Grapes are another big one.
Glad you bring that up about grapes. Terrible along especially roadside conifers in some areas. And the folks where this is taking over never do anything about it.
Buckthorn is a real bad one here in A-Town. It's creeping north and is just miles from my property up north. I may try to work up some volunteer action to deal with, but it's hard to get people to notice or care. Anyone ever let buckthorn run thru their woods...is all done having any fun with forestry.
Poison ivy is another that birds spread.
We mentioned earlier squirrels, especially grey squirrels, plant a tremendous number of trees by burying mast a couple of inches underground then rushing off to feed a hawk or coyote or such and never returning to dig it up.
There is some kind of tree that occurs where Dodo birds were before they were hunted to extinction. Without the dodos these trees stopped regenerating. The dodos would eat the seeds and the gizzards would grind the shells thinner to help germination. By feeding seeds to turkeys, researchers were able to grow more of the trees. Years ago The New York State DEC offered honeysuckle seedling in wildlife plantings packets. Now we're supposed to treat it as an invasive non-native; bad, real bad. Turkeys, robins, bluebirds, Cedar Waxwings and other birds love the berries, as evidenced by a lot of red blotches from their droppings. Many birds eat poison ivy seeds. Some Yellow-rumped Warblers were seen a few days ago near here eating poison ivy seeds. I've seen it myself in the past.
Yeah several of the big invasives were introduced by the Soil Conservation folks including Kudzu and Multi-flora rose. They will completely take over if not controlled by grazing/browsing, cutting, burning or herbicides.
The non-native invasive honeysuckles do feed a lot of birds, but that's why it spreads so prolifically. Very miserable stuff to have in your woods if you want tree regen. Between that and the buckthorn, ain't gonna happen.
Again, bad down here, not present at my northward property. Not looking to argue, and the topic of invasive plants is nuanced, but I can tell you that where non-native, invasive honeysuckle is on the control list, you've got your hands full.
Wisconsitom we have Buck thorn in our woods and we have cut it sprayed it pulled it and now I think it will win it is every where. Randy
It is possible to rid a tract of these woody invasives but it takes persistence. Then, if neighboring properties are not being managed, the stuff can return.
Cut-stump applications or basal bark, using 50/50 mix of Garlon type herbicide, i.e. triclopyr, with bark oil. Throw in a little dye. Then plan mop-up following seasons. Can do careful foliar spray, with just cheap glyphosate, for small seedlings.
In my working life, we did successfully clear small wooded areas and manage to keep the junk under control. Usually on either side of us, nothing was being done, and that is a problem.
That is what is happening here land all around us has Buckthorn that no one tries to control you can kill it but it just reseeds. but on the bright side the Grouse really like the seeds. Randy
Sorry to hear that, bud. Your area has such good forest land.
Did you know habitat diversity is best for raising and hunting wildlife? In Wildlife Biology we called it the Edge Effect. Think of a power line going through a mature forest, the edge where a planted pine plantation meets with a mature hardwood forest or a clear cut or planted field bordering the forest.
The more mature trees provide seeds, grapes, pine cones, acorns and other nuts and large den trees for denning animals while the more open areas provides open nesting areas for ground nesting birds, annual seeds and grasses, berries like blackberries, etc. The different fruiting and seeding times provide longer access to foods and such. Younger aged plots have more energy directly available to wildlife while the older seral aged plots have more of the energy tied up in tree trunks and such.
Quail and rabbits and such cannot survive in a mature hardwood forest or in a totally open field but combine the two and you will see a population explosion of them if there are brood/start-up stock available.
When I hear of a new power line or gas line going through a big forest and all the tree huggers start ranting and raving I keep thinking about the additional improvements to the quality of life for many of the animals in the area.
I have gone out back in the wintertime and shook the berries off buckthorn. The next day the berries were gone and turkey tracks in the snow. Deer eat the berries too but won't browse it. I've cut and stump treated a lot of buckthorn which yields a little firewood from bigger stems, but I've only scratched the surface. It is like Black Walnut in that it inhibits the growth of other trees.
The Buckthorn leaves look like something I have seen but can't remember when or where. Good luck in controlling it where you guys are encountering it. I see it is on the distribution map here in WV too but I can't remember any complaints about it. I will be keeping my eyes out for it.
Our common invasive plants here that I am most familiar with are Multiflora rose and Autumn olive. Further south a little ways it will be Kudzu but cold weather seems to keep it under control around here.
One way to control invasives is to introduce predators or diseases that control it in its native range but that can easily backfire. Mongeese in Hawaii were introduced to wipe out snakes as I remember which they did but then they started destroying the native Nene Goose and such.
Dutch elm disease that wiped out the bulk of the American Chestnut and the current Emerald Ash borers are pests I am more familiar with.
Buckthorn grows as a small tree with a round crown. The bark resembles Black Cherry as does the wood. The very green leaves persist well into the winter. Has thorns along the stem and branches that love to penetrate under and break off under the skin. You have to dig them out with a needle. I think some have used goats on it as they will eat it.
Goats sound like the ticket to me if you can get a fence up to keep them in or come up with some other control method on them. Goats will eat most anything and they will stand up, push over or climb leaning trees to get to it. If you dumped one in a Kudzu patch he'd think he'd died and gone to heaven but he would still go climb on top of your newly refurbished, cherry red, rag-top Corvette convertible to thank you. :D
They cleared my multiflora roses which had taken over this place before we bought it. They browsed off the leaves and tips of the limbs and in the winter they'd eat the bark and girdled the larger trunks. I had one old mixed milk goat who would eat thistles like they were a candy bar.
Goats eat lots of stuff, and I'll bet buckthorn is on that list. But so will be any regen you want to be there. They will also only at best help control existing plants, not the multitude of new seedlings that are gonna pop, plus buckthorn just resprouts anyway when cut or chewed. Could be useful in some limited, very heavy infestation situations, where little native veg is left. In most situations I encounter, it's better living thru chemistry, folks.👌. Small amounts of active ingredient, applied at the right time of year, in the correct manner, by people who know what they're looking at.
In this part of Wisconsin Goats would be Wolf food if left in the woods where Buckthorn grows. Randy
Did you know excess moisture is one of the big problems is construction of birdhouses? The moisture allows mold and mildew which causes different respiratory diseases and such causing death and reduced viability especially among the baby birds.
I save all my scrap boards that are 6"X10" or longer and make bluebird nest boxes. I don't try to seal the seams and even cut the corners out of the bottoms to allow for air flow. I don't paint my birdhouses which would help them last longer but would also seal the moisture. My nest boxes, when strategically placed, are very successful at attracting Eastern bluebirds and I get very favorable comments from my customers who use them.
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This is one on my back pasture gate post and we raised a clutch there last summer. The top is a simple 1" X 12" X 12" cap using short stickers on each side to hold the top on. The top lifts straight up for cleaning.
Also a perch (A peg under the entrance) attracts predators and I do not add them to my nest boxes.
It is fun to build these especially with the grandkids and very rewarding to see the bluebirds coming and going from them.
WV, you have it right about the nest boxes. Did you ever put up a screech-owl box? I have 4 screech-owl boxes in my yard, but haven't seen one since November 2020. That was a red phase bird; most here are gray. You are most likely to see them sitting in the entrance hole just before dark or on a very cold sunny winter afternoon.
Well, I just lost my whole post here because I tried to upload an attachment with a more modern Word extension than is supported and it ate the rest of the text too. I re-saved the document in an older version and will try again. Oh well, into every life a little rain must fall. ::)
KEC,
I have not built or hung any screech owl boxes yet but I looked at them and would love to put a couple up on my barns. I think I read they needed to be from 10-30 ft above ground and to use shavings as nesting materials to simulate the punky wood they would normally be using. We have them here as well as the big barred/hoot owls. I love to hear the calling. The hoot owls will be on every ridge and you may hear a dozen calling back and forth. My wife does not like the creepy screech owl call but I do. I'd love to have them feeding on the mice in my barn. I'm afraid a chipmunk might be too big for them to handle. They remind me of a grumpy little man every time I see one. I don't remember if they are territorial or how close you can put their nest boxes.
Here is a tongue in cheek info sheet I put up along with my bluebird boxes warning people the fancy, high tech, artsy birdhouses may look good but they attract city birds and unwanted invasive immigrant species instead of native bluebirds and such.
After losing several blue bird young from raccoons, I changed to their nest box on a pipe pole. That ended those marauders. They will wrap around the box and reach in and grab the young as well as manage to get one parent. Learned what was getting them with a trail camera.
Then moved the box away from adjacent trees to give the blue birds better chance of having their nests taken over by sparrows.
Have had a nest box out for the last 52 years here. Usually 2 young hatched every year, and a few times there have been 3. On occasion, none at all for one disaster or another.
Learned that the "family" flocks around for a few days in the fall when returning south for the winter. Will be 20-30 bluebirds around for 2-4 days. They apparently remember their old homestead.
BT,
I had heard about the pipe for post or nailing flashing around the post so critters could not climb it. So far I have been lucky. The first box I put out was 35 yards from my seat on the couch and they occupied it 2 days later and raised 2 clutches of 5 each. The box in the picture was occupied last year and they raised a clutch of 4. The two boxes may be too close for both to be occupied at the same time as I hear they are very territorial. They had no problem chasing me, the horse, deer and an imprudent fox squirrel who climbed on top of the box to eat a cicada. For all I know he may still be running. :D I love it when the young birds graduate and come out and flutter around till they figure this flight thing out. Daddy bird is overhead watching and protecting them till they do.
Did you know that leaves at the bottom of a tree are very often much larger than the leaves at the top of the same tree? Apparently this is to allow the leaves to capture more light from the sun. Leaves at the bottom of the tree are more in the shade and have to work harder to compete for sunlight than its siblings higher up in the tree so they grow larger to present more surface area. Leaves will also turn throughout the day to follow the sun. Some leaves will actually point down or curl to avoid too much sun if the situation dictates. Pretty amazing when you think about it and watch them in action.
There can be different leaf shape from top to bottom as well, water oak a good example, looks like a different species.
In some species, the leaf shape difference is so dramatic that it confuses many people. Black oak is one good example.
I once took just a little guilty pleasure in confusing a know-it-all about what kind of "maple" we were looking at. It was a big bolleana white poplar!
While it is interesting to watch nature and survival shows where the moderator or contestant warns his partners and anyone else in the area to get back because they have found a poisonous snake and tell them it can strike 2-3 times its length this is not true. Did you know most snakes can only strike about half the length of their body and some even less? Striking from a coiled or S- shaped position does increase their range a bit but still the safe distance is much less than often advertised. They do not have to assume such a position to strike so don't assume if he is not coiled you are safe. Big, heavy, slow snakes are less of a threat than some of the slimmer, faster snakes just because they don't have the range. A black mamba for example, IIRC, is the worlds fastest snake and could quickly reduce distance if he wanted. A heavy rattlesnake or Gabon Viper could not move particularly fast so would be easier to avoid.
Staying 2-3 times the snakes length is a reasonable protocol to teach kids and city slickers but if you find yourself 6-8 feet from a 4' copperhead or rattlesnake, don't have a heart attack or soil yourself. You are almost certainly going to survive the encounter intact and unbitten. Getting within striking range does not automatically mean you will be bitten either. I have stepped right beside and even on poisonous snakes and they did not always strike. Some just aren't that aggressive although I never deliberately try to test their mood on any given day or situation.
In a survival situation anyone who accurately can throw a stone or wield a long limber stick can kill a snake if they can get it in the open. We have discussed earlier a snake has a sensitive backbone arrangement that can be broken or damaged with a little effort which is why you will sometimes see even small terriers and such violently shaking and killing snakes. A shotgun or pistol loaded with small shot is very effective for killing a snake from a very safe distance. If I were hunting pythons in the Everglades I'd likely be carrying a short barreled 20 gauge with #8 shot rather than slugs or buckshot. Other than invasive species, unless they present a clear threat to others I now leave them all alone.
We even encountered a 5' juvenile Black mamba in Ethiopia on December 28, 2010 and our local guide asked if we wanted to kill it. I told him since it was not near a village or anything to leave it alone. He went and jumped back in the car as did our daughter after she snapped three pictures of it. I stopped it with a brushy limb and my wife got some more and better pictures and we let it go. Truth be told - I did not know it was a black mamba till I was able to compare the pictures to the internet pix. Otherwise we might have just gotten a long range southbound picture of a northbound snake. ::)
A guy from Arkansas that I was in the Army with said that they had a lot of snakes there so he did some research about snakes. When he got done, he concluded that there were only 4 kinds that he was afraid of: big ones, little ones, live ones and dead ones.
Working the woods brings us into contact with snakes, I usually let them pass if they do not surprise me, or, get to close. I usually carry a cruise stick, yard stick with numbers about a yard long, and have killed several rattle snakes with the stick. A single strike to the spine stops them. Of course, the shot barreled .22 with rat shop works better.
Did you know that baby/young animals playing is actually usually a sort of training for their livelihood? You will see small felines and canines and such stalking and attacking their siblings and such and learning the skills to sneak up attack and hold their prey. Young birds and squirrels and such chase each other and learn the skills to climb, jump, recover from falls and escape predators and such. Fawns and calves of various species push each other and learn the skills they will later use to establish dominance of their own herd or harem. It is great fun to watch them tumbling and falling and recovering and such.
Did you know there is a Pine Snake? I didn't until my buddy came across one while we were clearing a trail. It was huge! Slowly climbed a tree, cool to watch.
Yes I did. The endangered red cockaded woodpecker excavates nest cavities in living old growth pines. They peck the bark away around the cavity hole stimulating the tree to produce the sticky pine sap/resin to drip down the bole that would clog the belly scales on a predatory snake that was after the nestlings.
I had heard of a pine snake but do not ever remember seeing one. I have seen the red cockaded WP dens with the sap running below. I did not remember it was to protect from predators or if it was to catch bugs. May do both. I do know that overaged pine forests are required for RCWPs so they can find hollow for their dens but the trees still need to be live.
Did you know the open lakes and such found in the Okefenokee Swamp on the Fla-Ga line are typically formed by fire? During drought periods lightening would naturally set the dry peat moss on fire and it would burn sometimes for weeks or months until the rains finally came and flooded the area putting out the fires. There are huge areas of floating vegetation. You can stand on a patch of "dry ground" and stomp your foot and watch vegetation 40-45 feet away quivering from the motion.
I have seen that, too, in Eastern North Carolina on the organic histosol soils. Walk on them and the ground ripples.
A friend of mine farmed for a while in Wisconsin. He was renting some land and planted corn on a "field" that looked good. He was out there on a tractor when a long-time resident of the area came over flailing his arms and yelling to get out of the "field". That "field" was actually a floating bog, where there is a buildup of organic material floating on water underneath. If that tractor had broken through it would not have a good outcome. The corn never got harvested; probably some fat deer that winter.
Sounds like a few posted warning signs are in order.
As I understand the name Okefenokee means "Land of the trembling Earth" although I read Oki meant "Trembling" and Fenokee meant "Water" so it actually meant "Land of Trembling Water" or something to that effect.
In Canada they have something called Muskeg and it can be 30 ft deep. I've see Leopard tanks at 50+ mph crossing it and looking like they have a bow wave of grass. The APC's with it did too but they weren't as cool.
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/muskeg
We have muskeg swamps here in the Lake States also. They are swamp lands with Hydric soils featuring a high-water table. They are usually sphagnum bogs with organic peat soil.
We built a house down near where Jim Rogers is years ago. There was a peat fire going in Holly Shelter which we were backed up to, it had been burning and popping up here and there for some time. Up in WI we built in what we called a cranberry bog, it was probably a little better than that but the concrete trucks were pushing a wave and I was sure we were going to see one disappear wrapped in geotextile and gravel :D. I prefer solid ground ::).
The pocosins down east are another cool feature, there is one that I was reading about awhile ago that showed fish evolution over a relatively short time.
We planted trees in the dismal one winter, a whole different world. Early on the crew boss said not to be suprised if you took a step and were all of a sudden waist deep with your tree bags floating. I walked the bottom and planted the top, a dib'l haf to do ;D.
Did you know termites can build mounds up to 30 meters in diameter and the world's record was something like 42' tall? These large mounds are typically found in pretty arid areas such as Africa and Australia. Sometimes the termites dig huge tunnels and the only indication may be the lack of live vegetation in the area. Many people have gotten stuck or broken axles unexpectedly driving into them.
We saw lots of termite mound in the southern half of Africa that were 6'-10' tall and had been abandoned and brush had resumed growing over them. They were the places animals went for height to look for predators or prey. Lions and such would typically pull their kill into the brush covered deserted termite mounds to eat. The brush provided the only shade in the area in some cases and helped allow them to protected it from scavengers like vultures, jackals, hyenas, etc.
Local tribes would sometimes dig into a deserted termite mound and use it as a clay oven to bake bread and such. Many animals would take shelter or make dens in old termite mounds including snakes, wart hogs, honey badgers, meerkats, mongeese, etc.
While the termites killed the vegetation they also turned to soil bringing various mineral to the surface.
Did you know that snail darters make good crappie bait? Well, maybe you should be careful about admitting that. There are other species of darters that live in the creeks of WV and other states that we affectionately refer to as "minners" that are readily caught in minnow traps baited with bread or dry dog food and do make good bait for crappie, smallmouth bass, catfish, etc. (Note: I have never knowingly or intentionally targeted or used any protected species for fish bait.) ::)
Darters can be very colorful little fish only a few inches long. We have them here in the creek in front of my house in WV that live in the little pools of water. Some have bright yellow and others have bright red makings.
My creek often dries up if we don't get enough rain and I assume they live in holes under the streambed or maybe they only live in the few deep holes that don't dry up and quickly repopulate the other area once the creek starts flowing again. Especially during the drier periods blue herons and kingfishers and such come up the creek and catch the darters and other "minnows" trapped in the pools.
Did you know a common fishing technique I observed in the Okefenokee Swamp was a long pole with a short line and a heavy sinker? For bait they would use a gob of earthworms or a crawfish. They would ease a johnboat or canoe along the canals and open water in the swamp and lower the bait into tight spots, hollow stumps, etc. There was not enough clearance to effectively cast a line on a flyrod or spinning reel. I guess they either handed the fish back to the guy in the other end of the boat or sliding the pole down in their hands till they could reach and unhook the fish. The water was typically only a few feet deep at best throughout the swamp.
The fish most commonly caught were largemouth bass, goggle-eye, stumpknockers and such. I am sure lots of Bowfin were caught but most of the time they were regarded as trash fish and killed and discarded as would any gars they caught. In other regions they would have been considered a prize catch.
Did you know there is one fish or animal that a Cajun won't eat? Do you know what it is? I don't either but I am sure there must be something out there. ::) Cajuns are (justifiably) famous for eating just about anything and everything. :D
It is funny what fish people will not eat in one area but are often a preferred fish in others. All along the Gulf coast of Fla if you go into a local fish shack you will likely find the fish of the day is fresh fried mullet. If you go up to North or South Carolina people there will hardly use them for fish bait.
Where I grew up in N. Fla Bowfin/Grinnel (We called them cottonfish or mudfish a little further south) and Gars (Alligator or Long-Nosed types) were common but I never knew anybody who ate them because they were too bony and Bowfin was considered too chewy and hard to eat. I do know from cutting them up for catfish bait that Gar had a very pretty backstrap that looked real tasty. Further south I heard they would grind up Bowfins and make fish balls with them. (There was an old joke a preacher tried some Bowfin and said he had always wondered what the fish were Jesus used to feed the multitude - now he knew because the longer he chewed the bigger it got.) I often see outdoor shows where people in Louisiana and Mississippi target those fish as a preferred food.
We had Chain Pickerel (Locally called Jackfish) and in the spring Suckers would run up to the creeks to spawn in and could legally be gigged in Fla. Most people did not eat either of these fish claiming they were too bony and they did have a lot of small bones. I have heard some folks soaked them in vinegar or lemon juice to dissolve these small bones. Others cut the fish crossways and fried them real brown and ate bones and all. Some people even fried small bream well done and ate bones and tails and such whole. I do remember we used to regularly eat Jackfish and Suckers when we could get them until I got old enough and proficient enough to catch more desirable species.
Catfish has always been a preferred fish in the south but I have heard in other parts of the USA they are considered trash fish. Eels are another fish loved in some areas but shunned in others. They are another fish I have used for catfish bait and found them to be very pretty white meat but I never ate them.
I understand invasive carp species in Louisiana and Mississippi and possibly other states are deemed inedible but I remember one TV show where the owner of a fish market in Louisiana was trying to develop a market for them and had even cut them up with a chunk of meat on a rib and fried or grilled them and they were pretty popular as a snack or appetizer similar to buffalo chicken wings.
Asian Snakehead fish have been introduced into the Potomac and its tributaries and is considered an ugly, nasty fish but also considered very good eating by many.
A fellow Marine used to give me small sharks (Hammerhead and blacktip for the most part) in South Carolina and we found them very good eating and firm enough we could even cook them on the grill. Few people I knew ate them.
We visited Yellowstone Park several years ago and I was surprised that there were Rainbow trout in many of the streams. Fishermen were advised if they caught one not to return it to the stream alive. They were to keep or at least kill it as it was causing problems for native brown trout and such. I don't think anyone considered it a trash fish but it was not welcome.
If you can think of other fish that some people shun in your area but others readily eat please post about them. Also if you have a recipe or technique to compensate or overcome problems such as small bones or such let us know how you prepare them.
vinegar or acetic acid, will combine with and leach out calcium. As an experiment, soak and egg overnight in vinegar, and it can be called a "rubber egg" slipped into a pop bottle with a narrow top as an illusion. "How did they get that egg in there"?
Suckers would be the fish in my area that almost no one eats because they are bottom feeders and very bony. But as @doc henderson (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=41041) said, vinegar will dissolve some of the bones. I know my brother would can/pickle them using vinegar and other ingredients and claimed that they were pretty good...I never tried it :)
JB,
Yeah suckers are bottom feeders but as far as I know it was just algae and other plants and such they were eating so I never saw that as an issue of concern. I never liked pickled anything much so that would have left me out of eating them.
I do know if you want to hear a fishing line sing just catch a good sized sucker on a limber cane pole! That is about as hard a fighting fish as I ever caught for his size.
My grandparents would boil the meat of the bones of suckers (red horse) spice up the meat and make patties for frying. Long process for a fish dinner, but in that day food was food.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on February 24, 2022, 09:14:51 AMDid you know there is one fish or animal that a Cajun won't eat? Do you know what it is? I don't either but I am sure there must be something out there. ::) Cajuns are (justifiably) famous for eating just about anything and everything. :D
It is a documented fact that Adam & Eve were not Cajuns, because it they had been.....they would have eaten the snake.
A good many years back, Fishpharmer brought catfish and fried them on Friday evening at a Pig Roast. I remember that several of the Glaciated Northerners did not cotton to them.
They also do not know what to do with boiled peanuts. ::)
No telling what they'd have done if you'd offered them some boiled okra. ;)
I believe there is one thing a true ragin' cajun would never eat and that is Crow. ;D :D
I would not bet the farm on it! :D
When I was working overseas I remember seeing a British show (I think it was "Return to River Cottage" or such) and they had an episode on it where they were killing and eating crows so evidently some people eat them.
I know the people in Douala Cameroon used to go shoot big fruit bats with a pellet gun out of big mango tree about 1/2 mile from my office to eat them. When they'd shoot one the others would fly off the roost like a big black volcano circling the rookery tree till things got quiet and they would return. If there had been a Cajun around he'd probably have been there giving them cooking suggestions. :D
Do you know anything about spearfishing? It has been a long time but when I was working in Jeddah Saudi Arabia I used to scuba dive and spear fished a lot in the Red Sea there. The long guns varied in length and number of bands they used. The bands were basically surgical tubing connected to a wire V. The V slipped into a notch on the spear itself. The spear was usually from about 3'-5' depending on the size of the gun used. It was just a simple stainless steel rod with 1-2 notches on the rear and a threaded front.
A barbed point that folded down like an anchor bolt used in a hollow wall and was about 2"-3" on each wing was used to hold the fish when shot. The point would pass through the fish then open up and hold him on the spear. Usually when I shot a fish I would put him on a big ring like a 12" safety pin of sorts then I would unscrew the point, pull the spear out then screw the point back on.
The spear was usually attached to the gun with a long, self coiling monofilament fishing line. Some divers did not use the line but risked losing their spear in a large fish or deep water. Sometimes the gun was attached to your wrist with a lanyard. Shooting a very large fish with an attached line could mean you were in for a wild ride if not careful. Most of the fish we'd shoot in the Red Sea were under 10 lbs. Grouper were the preferred prey but they were skittish and would peep out from behind a piece of coral like a squirrel in a tree. The biggest fish I ever shot was a 50 lbs Wrasse and he was in a cave.
When spear fishing we would swim over our hunting area, often a coral covered wall, until we spotted a fish we wanted to shoot. We could point our spear at the fish with one hand and start swimming directly at the fish as fast as we could fin ourselves along. When the fish was deeper than me I'd be pinching my nose with my left hand and blowing into my nose to pop my ears to equalize the pressure every couple of feet. Once we got in range as close as we thought were going to, we'd shoot at the fish's head. When we made a good hit the fish would thrash about wildly for a few seconds then we'd pull him in and put him on a ring, stringer or bag then remove the spear. If you pulled the spear out before securing him a fish might still swim free.
The safe way to carry the fish where sharks or barracudas were around was on a ring or stringer attached to a float that you towed behind you on a long line. Then if a big predator fish smelled the blood and attacked he was away from you. Of course I always carried my ring attached to my weight belt. Predator fish are good to eat too. ::)
What I describe above was typical of day time spear fishing.
Did you know that night time spear fishing is very different that day time spear fishing? I did a lot of night dives and spear fishing in the Red Sea near Jeddah Saudi Arabia between 1991 and 1994 and found there were huge differences in fishing at night and day time. Night time fishing was a lot like gigging frogs. I would dive with a bright light and many fish would simply freeze when you shined a light in their eyes. I mostly used a compressed air spear pistol with about a 12" long spear. I'd put the spear in the barrel of the gun like loading a black powder gun then push down on a rock or a hard plastic device designed for that. Pushing the spear in compressed the air in a cylinder and it locked when fully inserted.
I would spot a fish and keep the light in his eyes being careful not to get the speargun between me and him creating a shadow. If I did he would often dart away just like a blinded bullfrog would do. I would ease the gun up to the point it was nearly touching, always within 6" of his eye, and shoot. I would then pull the fish back to me on the self-coiling line, put him in the big ring I used as a stringer, then remove the spear point and pull the spear out, thread the point back on, recock the gun and look for another fish.
The most common fish I shot were unicorn fish and parrot fish
parrot fish - Bing images (https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=xJnRjJ1D&id=1345D8D5FD65977F4526BB8A81FC3D3B07326146&thid=OIP.xJnRjJ1Dw0trzMbFncAoggHaF7&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.sosuabeachdr.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2018%2f09%2fsosuaparrotfish1.jpg&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.c499d18c9d43c34b6bccc6c59dc02882%3frik%3dRmEyBzs9%252fIGKuw%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=700&expw=875&q=parrot+fish&simid=608014129195581766&FORM=IRPRST&ck=1B9AA50B717986E543CAB317A5B2E9A5&selectedIndex=1&qpvt=parrot+fish&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0) unicorn fish - Bing images (https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=JJX%2fKhbg&id=AE5FEDF9C4B08EB6561CD1A01C960B9DD0EB47CC&thid=OIP.JJX_Khbgw-CjmRkNvgg8AQHaE9&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.2495ff2a16e0c3e0a399190dbe083c01%3frik%3dzEfr0J0Llhyg0Q%26riu%3dhttp%253a%252f%252f1.bp.blogspot.com%252f-WYYzVNgpyjI%252fUDBCjZEUSSI%252fAAAAAAAAAcA%252fT_wZSESF1u8%252fs1600%252fUnicorn-%252bFish-1.jpg%26ehk%3dnlMjV6y2JtRRMm%252fWzzo8OiC96%252fbV%252f%252fPVjJ8VTfz1g7E%253d%26risl%3d%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=536&expw=800&q=unicorn+fish&simid=608037760109077175&FORM=IRPRST&ck=F8F166C2781262EE7422903B315D66D1&selectedIndex=11&qpvt=unicorn+fish&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0) . I'd skin, fillet and eat the unicorn fish which tasted similar to catfish.
In the daytime dives it was nearly impossible to get a shot at a unicorn fish as they were extremely skittish and would not let you get in range. At night they were motionless and I have even caught them by hand like a Mississippi bullfrog (I did not have to worry about a cottonmouth trying to take him away from me).
The parrot fish were a popular fish for sale in the local markets and sold for about $4/lb as I remember. They had big scales and I did not eat them but froze them and took them to work to give to our TCN (Politically incorrect term I am sure for our Filipino and African workers) who loved them but could not afford to buy them. Parrot fish would swim into a small cave in the coral and spit out a spiderweb like substance to cover the entrance to the opening. When something wiggled the spiderweb they would blindly rush out to escape. I have even had them rush out and hit me in the face and knock my mask off and knock my regulator out of my mouth.
The biggest fish I ever killed was a 50 lb humphead wrasse humphead wrasse - Bing images (https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=KMNVdLx5&id=C0FF1EF7F51A45595BC4A19784EBA7721759A0AC&thid=OIP.KMNVdLx5Eo_7iXf7HEriFAE8DF&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fcoralreefpalau.org%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2017%2f03%2fhumphead-wrasse-1.jpg&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.28c35574bc79128ffb8977fb1c4ae214%3frik%3drKBZF3Kn64SXoQ%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=600&expw=960&q=humphead+wrasse&simid=608017316065380829&FORM=IRPRST&ck=71C809A5436716B3858F62670EBAB747&selectedIndex=144&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0) that was sleeping in a coral cave. I swam into the only opening big enough for either of us to enter and shot him in the eye. He went crazy and broke my spear on the side of the cave when I first shot him. My roommate/dive buddy finally got him out but it was a wild time doing so. I do not recommend others trying such an encounter. We did have a fish fry from him and fed the whole compound where we lived.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_20191003_0003~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1645885489)
One of the dumbest things I ever did was shooting about a 4' barracuda that weighed 40-50 lbs. I shot him in the head and he went wild. I grabbed to spear and tried to keep him pointed away from me. (Have you ever seen the teeth on a barracuda?). The spear point was stuck in solid bone and did not pass through enough for the points to open up and he eventually pulled off and swam away. I was afraid he was going to come back and get even. It was a pretty stressful few minutes there!
Another time I shot a big snapper and he got hung under some debris at the end of my line and although I was nearly out of air I crawled in to get him and got my equipment hung on the debris, lost my weight belt and finally had to shed my gear and make an uncontrolled buoyant ascent to the surface about 40' above where you blow out all the way up to keep from blowing up your lungs as the air in them expands as you rise and the pressure decreases. (They teach this technique in PADI training and I am alive to verify it works). I came back the next day and recovered my gear but the fish was gone - dang those crabs and lobsters and such.
Night diving and night spear fishing are hugely different than day dives. With the artificial light you see the true colors and you see species of fish and animals you never see during the day. I truly loved it.
Did you know when doing a night dive in the Red Sea you can turn off your light and see the bioluminescence or phosphorescence coming off anything moving through the water? it looks like little green stars coming up off your dive buddies fins as he/she swims or you can wave your arm through the water and see the sparkles coming off. I used to love it when I'd have my light off and we'd startle a fish and you could see two parallel lines several inches apart that came off the fishes back and belly as it streaked through the water. The sparkles appear with the movement then disappear. I never really understood what made it occur but it was beautiful sight to see. This is probably true in other locations but the Red Sea was the only place I did much night diving.
Which reminds me - it was easy to see when there was a new diver in the group because his light beam looked like a Star Wars light sabre battle swishing back and forth forward and back and side to side and up and down looking for some shark or sea monster to come eat him. Those of us who were experienced would just concentrate on the objects in our light beam and enjoy the amazing colors of the soft corals or nematodes and other such night creatures. My favorite was a Spanish dancer spanish dancer sea slug - Bing images (https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=kDX8BxhO&id=F470B2699A5CC2EBDBB1200218D1A0AF83621BB1&thid=OIP.kDX8BxhOyIwJtZMX-E-aYwHaFj&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.9035fc07184ec88c09b59317f84f9a63%3frik%3dsRtig6%252bg0RgCIA%26riu%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fi.frikkinawesome.com%252f2016%252f11%252fspanish-dancer-hexabranchus-sanguineus.jpg%26ehk%3dfwDu9UXU0n6t%252bN8Qn1TCpXH7FIP3QUIB%252f0jN6%252fLf%252fYc%253d%26risl%3d%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=768&expw=1024&q=spanish+dancer+sea+slug&simid=608029754291535096&FORM=IRPRST&ck=777D9635D9F2EECAE259AFBA975D9893&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0) . These were things you never saw on a day dive.
As to that critter from Jaws I always figured "Why worry? I can't swim faster than him. I can't kill him. Other than stabbing my dive buddy in the leg with my dive knife and hoping it eats him instead of me I have no real defense so I'll just enjoy the scenery." ;D
WV, that reminds me of the time a bear was chasing me and someone else. I didn't have to run fast, I just had to run faster than my late sister.
Yeah, I always took it as a bad sign when a dive buddy would pull off one of my dive fins for the same reason. ::)
Then there's the saying (I think this is close) that the antelope starts each day hoping that they can run faster than the fastest lion. The lion hopes to be faster than the slowest antelope.
Old member but first post on this site. Story that doesn't end well. Here in the UP a fella was picking blueberries, and suddenly two big wolves came charging and he being quite agile was able to climb a tree. Time passed and one wolf left. He figured the other one would soon leave. Then he spotted movement in the undergrowth and here comes the departed one back with his old friend, Benny Beaver!!!!😳
Reminds be of this carving which is one of my favorite from Africa.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3025.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1646015838)
Note that our little African friend has barely escaped the lion and the crocodile but see what is up in the tree with him smiling.
I have had many days when I could relate to this guy. :D
Did you know that the black and white stripes on a zebra helps protect it from lions in a couple of ways? The stripes help it blend in with the tall grass. Since the lion is colorblind it may not even see a zebra that is standing still. Also since the zebras are herd animals traveling in large groups the stripes make it hard for lions to recognize and target a specific zebra. This confusion helps them get away before the lion can single out one animal to attack.
Kind of like the squirrel standing in the road not knowing whether to go left or right. By the time he decides, it is too late. By the time the lion decides which zebra to eat it has escaped.
Did you know you can tell the sex of the zebra from the pattern of the stripes? The females have black and white stripes while the males have white and black stripes. ??? ::) :D
Actually there are several species of zebras. I don't remember the exact differences but I remember one species had 3 types of alternating stripes - Black, white and a reddish brown. Also some have stripes all the way down their legs while some have solid colored legs.
Also they bark like a dog rather than whinny like a horse or bray like a donkey.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on February 28, 2022, 09:22:56 AMDid you know that the black and white stripes on a zebra helps protect it from lions in a couple of ways?
Did you know there was a study conducted that it has more to do with flies? They outfitted horses with several patterns of horse blankets and used high speed cameras. They saw that horseflies would bounce off the zebra pattern much more than solid colors. They speculated that the alternating/contrasting colors caused the horseflies to mis-judge the distance to the landing site, would come in too hot and couldn't stick the landing.
John,
I had never read that but it is an interesting observation. With the Tsetse flies and such over there anything that helps reduce the bites from them would be a helpful genetic trait. I can just envision a horsefly crash landing on a zebra. :D
Maybe I need to paint stripes on our old horse Trigger during the summer months? ;)
I did notice the horses in Mongolia would stand head to toe so when one swished his tail he'd knock the flies off the others face so it was mutually beneficial to both. I also remember seeing my mule swish his tail and knocked a big horsefly to the ground then nonchalantly step right on him before he could get up and fly away. I always wondered if it was pure accident or if he meant to step on him.
I have noticed that when working with white foam insulation outside that flies would run right into it at full speed, it was like they could not see it or perhaps process a solid white object.
Perhaps on the zebra the flies think they are going in-between the black stripes.
Apparently zebras don't have black stripes. They are black, with white stripes. Or is it the other way around?🤔
Did you know the white or light colored belly on most fish is to help provide camouflage from predators swimming below them? The white color is harder to see against the lighter sky/surface above. Their sides and backs may have various colors, stripes, spots, etc to hide them from the sides or above. Combat airplanes are also often painted in similar patterns to hide them from above and below. The gray paint of combat ships makes them harder to see.
Keep that in mind when painting the bottom of you "Ol Stump jumper" johnboat so the fish below don't see you sneaking up on them.
I remember USMC camo for vehicles always included about 5% black stripes/lines to help provide a shadow effect to help them blend in even if sand (Desert) or white (Snow) colors.
Did you know there are soft corals? They often look like trees or other plants. They are very flexible and bend and wave in the current. They are often vibrant colors of red, purple, yellow, etc.
Some species are called fire coral and have stinging tips to stun prey which create a painful, burning rash when touched by bare skin. These are not true corals from what I have read about them but that is their common name.
Some of the color is apparent in shallow water where the light can reach them but to really appreciate the colors you need to see and photograph them using artificial light.
I did not know until recent years that deer will eat black walnut leaves.
But have seen on my trail cam videos that they seem to relish walnut leaves 2-3 days after a storm and enjoy eating them after they have wilted.
BT,
I did not know that. I knew deer were pretty indiscriminate browsers but I'd have thought the chemical Juglone in BW would have been toxic in any significant quantities. I knew old timers used to crush up green BW leaves and nuts and put them in a burlap bag and throw them in a deep hole in the creek and the fish would come floating to the surface. I think it took the oxygen out of the water. Of course I can't personally certify that would work. (I never could get hold of enough green walnut leaves and nuts in my misspent youth. ;))
Did you know that a snake or fish always tries to swallow its prey head first? Apparently it slides down easier that way. I once caught a big chain pickerel using just a landing net. He had caught and attempted to swallow a large crappie and got it crossways in his throat and it strangled him. He would broach the surface of the lake and shake his head in a typical tail-walking effect like a largemouth bass does when hooked. The pickerel was nearly dead when I rescued him to a more glamorous fate - fried and reposing on a plate with side of fries and hushpuppies.
I've seen deer eat buckthorn berries. The latin name for buckthorn alludes to the fact that it will induce heavy duty gastronomical upset, at least for people.
Did you know (https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/429d498749f292c242e1b7bd9e1cf219fd403736) is the way to measure refraction of light? Refraction of light is often referred to as bending. It is caused by light passing through two different medians - light to air. When light hits the water it slows down and looks like it bends to a different direction.
Why should you care? Anybody who has ever looked down into a stream and spotted a fish or turtle or such he wants to gig, spear or shoot with a bow probably missed and speared or shot over the target the first time he tried because the target was not really where it appeared to be unless you happened to be directly above it. In nearly all cases you will spear or shoot right over the back of the animal. To compensate you need to aim low. Aiming at the bottom of a fishes belly should result in a hit to the backbone.
When diving or snorkeling and spearfishing this is not a problem as you are in the water the whole time and no bending appears.
Did you know that light refraction is what makes bluebirds appear to be blue ? There is no pigment in the feathers. If you hold a "blue" feather in front of you and down at waist level it looks blue. If you hold it out and up high so that the light passes through the feather it will look like a washed-out gray. Applies to many birds. There is something about the structure of the feather that blue light is reflected and other colors are dispersed.
I did not know that but I knew that water filtered out the colors in the light rays and the blues were about the last to go. Many times I'd be scuba diving and see a pretty blue grouper down about 60', shoot him and take him to the surface only to find he was actually red or orange. With an artificial light we would see the true colors at any depth.
I wonder if that is a similar effect to what you are describing about the bluebird feathers? ???
I don't know. Keep an eye out for a blue feather, bluebird, Blue Jay and look at it in the light. Did you ever notice that you don't always see the ruby red gorget on a male Ruby-throated Hummingbird ? That red is created by light refraction too. So if the light isn't right, you don't see the red. Any notion that you have that I fully understand it is an illusion.
Did you know that a mule is a very social animal and wants to be with other members of his herd? I am not sure if this is as true with a horse or even a donkey. Our old mule, Blackjack (who died last June) would go absolutely crazy if he was separated from his big horse buddy, Trigger. I'd feed them in separate stalls or the larger, greedy horse would have eaten all the feed. If I let Trigger out of his stall first and he walked out of sight before I freed Blackjack, the mule would run the fence line braying for him till he located him. If the horse had died first I would have had to buy another horse, mule or pony or such to put with him for company. The horse does not seem to care.
If there are others with donkeys or such with similar or diverging experiences with their equine friends (?) let us know what your observations and experiences have been.
Did you know a herd or group of zebras is sometimes called a Dazzle or a Zeal? I came across that term today when reading about a lodge in Kenya. It was the first time I'd ever seen that term for them.
..
Scott,
I don't know what that means?
Did you know that the water magnifies what you see when scuba diving by about 25%? Many people with vision problems can see pretty clearly under water because the view is enlarged. Many of the name brand companies that make scuba masks offer prescription lenses for them. If you take your prescription from your eye doctor they can usually match it and replace the clear lens with new ones. If you have a different prescription in each eye you just need to buy a mask with separate lenses instead of one with a single face plate.
BONUS DYK:
Did you why know the contestants who successfully complete their Naked and Afraid challenges get picked up in a beat up old farm truck and they have ride in the back to their destination instead of riding in an air conditioned limo? Its because they have been out in the bush for 3 weeks or more without toilet paper. :D
We may have to move this to the "Do You Want to Know" thread.
Aw come on. Give me a break. :D
The quality of the topics listed is highly dependent on the input we get here from others so to trigger more interesting and informative reading, if you want more and better topics you need to post more. ;)
happy birthday KEC
Thanks, Doc.
Did you know the Inuit and other Alaskan women used a special knife called an Ulu (Oo Loo)? It has a convex/half moon shaped blade on the front and a handle on the back side. It is an all purpose blade used effectively for many cutting and scaping tasks and was traditionally used by the women of the tribes more so than by the men. It was used as a knife, a cleaver, a scraper, etc. An expert user can fillet a large salmon in seconds, skin a caribou, scale a fish, cut up meat, etc,
Knives used to skin and flesh beavers are very similar. Many trappers strive to "clean skin" beaver to make for easier fleshing chores. Beaver pelt prices have been depressed for a while and, not to get political, the goings on with Russia will probably keep prices down.
I was looking at pictures and videos of them and thinking they looked like they would be perfect for fleshing out a green animal skin/pelt. They look very similar to various fleshing tools I have seen people use for processing skins and hides.
BTW - did I ever mention I thought the beaver was the hardest animal I ever tried to skin because the skin did not separate from the meat and I had to cut it away every step of the way. Recently we talked about skinning gators and that seems to be the case with them too. There must be easier ways than the way I did it but I never got to watch an expert at it.
Beaver are a pain in the neck but skinning a deer neck is worse. With practice it goes faster. You start by slitting from the anus up the belly to the chin. Cut the feet off; brush loppers work well. Lay it on its' back and peel the sides, free it up around the hind legs and tail. The area at the base of the tail is tough. Once the rear half of the pelt is free you can hang it up by the tail much like skinning an animal cased like raccoon.
I don't find skinning a deer neck to be an issue. I hunt on my property and am always close to my skinning rack so I don't even field dress my deer. I throw them on or drag them behind the ATV to my rack, hang them by their heels using a cheap pully to adjust the height a few times in the process, cut off the front legs and head (The loppers sound like an improvement to my method but either way is easy) then I just ring the back feet, slit from R to L across the anus and pull down basically casing the hide off the deer. I will run my open hand between the hide and meat in a few places to loosen it and I touch up a couple spots on the belly with my knife where the hide wants to hang on then maybe ring around the neck 3-4 times if needed. Sometimes I hold the hide and step on it with my heel to pull it down. It is pretty easy to pull right off.
In fact, once that is done I cut off the neck, shoulders, pull the back straps and trim a little meat for grinding off the side and such then I gut the deer. After that I cut the backbone at the hips, trim off the brisket, tenderloin and any trimmings then I work up the hams/back quarters.
I find this process is much faster, easier and cleaner than field dressing. I find the hide hangs to the meat more around the belly and such if the deer has been field dressed but slides right over when intact.
Can blow air under the hide to loosen it from the carcass.
Skinnin' the beaver - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-9trO0eRcI)
For deer, I cape a bit high around the neck, slit the skin on the inner front legs up to the caped neck line, and put a small stone under the hide to tie off a rope or small cable. Lop the lower front legs off.
Tie that neck cape off to a tree or post and then tie the head to the loader on the tractor and pull the hide off. Cut off the legs as the hide strips off.
Slick as can be.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Skinning_Mike_s_buck~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1646796542)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Buck_6pt_skinned.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1646796744)
Quote from: beenthere on March 08, 2022, 10:33:25 PM
Can blow air under the hide to loosen it from the carcass.
Skinnin' the beaver - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-9trO0eRcI)
For deer, I cape a bit high around the neck, slit the skin on the inner front legs up to the caped neck line, and put a small stone under the hide to tie off a rope or small cable. Lop the lower front legs off.
Tie that neck cape off to a tree or post and then tie the head to the loader on the tractor and pull the hide off. Cut off the legs as the hide strips off.
Slick as can be.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Skinning_Mike_s_buck~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1646796542)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Buck_6pt_skinned.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1646796744)
I thought getting taken out behind the wood shed was bad. I sure wouldn't want to get on your bad side after seeing that poor deer 😂
@beenthere (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=180) your pics give a whole different perspective to the terms "drawn & quartered" :D
I bet that Jeremiah Johnson wished that he had an air compressor back in the 1840's.
Back when I hunted we would hang the gutted deer on a 2x6 between a couple of trees, circle cut the hide at the neck, lop off the lower legs, tie a pebble in the neck hide and pull the hide off with a 4 wheeler. then the normal butchering. Had to keep the head with tag until transported to home or where ever. Usually took well less than an hour after the shot.
Love deer meat, lost interest in killing them, supposed to happen to a lot of us old guys.
Quote from: Texas Ranger on March 09, 2022, 09:18:06 AMtie a pebble in the neck hide and pull the hide off with a 4 wheeler.
Had a guy try to teach me that trick one time. When we picked the carcass off the ground, I asked him if we should use a heavier rope.
Quote from: Texas Ranger on March 09, 2022, 09:18:06 AMlost interest in killing them
Yep, happens to most of us old timers. I still take the gun but my binoculars get much more of a workout.
It would be different if our families were going hungry, but they are not.
The pebblestone trick is what I use too.
This year will be the 58th deer season.. recall only getting skunked one year. Hope this year will go well again.
But the hunting has been getting easier with a little planning. The old days in the 60's and 70's, would sit by a tree all day in neg 15-20° from sunup to sundown. Drag the deer out of the swamps of central WI a mile and 3/4 back to the cabin.
Now it is a 300 yard hike to a blind, retrieve with the tractor/loader, and really little to no work involved. Have to have the venison in the freezer, and can't miss a season. Use a crossbow now in the archery season.
Bucks carrying antlers as of the middle of Feb.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Antlers_2_23_4pt.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1646854617)
Earlier showing one that lost the left antler...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Antlers_2_06_double.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1646854698)
Quote from: WDH on March 09, 2022, 07:43:59 AM
I bet that Jeremiah Johnson wished that he had an air compressor back in the 1840's.
I hear tell that the air trick on beaver (and other critters) can result in some disgusting blow-out's if not field dressed and the air supplied for too long.
Trappers have video's that can show the details.
Apparantly, you guys forget that Jeremiah tossed the beaver on the ground and told the young lad to skin it. Easiest way.
KEC,
I think you are getting your characters mixed up. It was Bear Claw (Will Geer) who told Jeremiah (Robert Redford) to skin the grizzly bear but neglected to shoot it first. :D "Skin him pilgrim" is an all time classic line. Maybe he did such a trick on the boy he took in from the crazy woman to raise but I disremember.
I have seen videos but never tried the pebble/rock in the neck hide and a 4 wheeler but I have seen videos of it. I can see where you'd want to double check the rope and the limb the deer was hanging on. I also have not tried the air compressor although I heard the use of one with a basketball needle and such a long time ago. I had never heard of a blowout using HP air but I can see where it could be traumatic.
I still don't see what keeps the meat on the belly from hanging to the hide and tearing off especially if it was field dressed but I may just be overly diligent in trying to save every scrap of meat off the deer I can.
I know some people just save the hams and backstrap and don't try to save even the shoulders or the ribs and such but I feel that is disrespectful of the animal. It is increasingly becoming illegal in many states to waste any edible part of a game animal. I know WV just passed such a law a few years back. Realistically, I doubt nothing much would be said about the ribs or about the organs (Heart, liver, kidneys, etc) which is highly subjective among hunters I know. And in all honesty I don't know of any of my hunting associates who save the mountain oysters.
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I still don't see what keeps the meat on the belly from hanging to the hide and tearing off especially if it was field dressed but I may just be overly diligent in trying to save every scrap of meat off the deer I can.
Know that pulling the hide off front to back will not pull meat off with the hide. Not true if pulling, or skinning from the back forward. The fly muscle will hang with the hide and have to be released (cut) to not stick with the hide.
Did you know that hippos are supposed to kill more people in Africa every year than any animal there? You'd have thought it would be the Nile crocodile catching people fishing, bathing, washing clothes or swimming along the rivers or the elephants who are huge and strong and very protective around their young or the lions who are big aggressive predators and require a large daily diet of fresh meat.
The hippos are very territorial and will readily attack boats that get near them when feeding or when a cow hippo has a young calf. Also many local people are killed walking along the streams at night because the hippos come out to graze on dry land at night and anyone getting between them and the water spooks them and they charge back to the water and directly over anyone in the way.
They have massive canine teeth or tushes and can rip a person or predator apart with them. They have a huge bite radius and can open their huge jaws nearly 180 degrees. Also a big hippo can weigh about 2 tons.
WV, Jeremiah (Robert Redford) plopped a beaver down and told the young boy to skin it. I also well remember the old boy leading the grizzly into the cabin and jumping out the window, leaving Jeremiah to deal with it. I first saw this movie at Rhine Main Air Force Base near Frankfort, West Germany at the movie theatre with some other Army buddies. Can't forget something like that. You stand corrected. :D
Instead of a pebble I use a golf ball and the loader on my Kubota tractor.
I have had the problem of tearing a front shoulder off when doing it alone as I am an impatient sort of fellow.
Much better when you have someone to guide it.
I first read about this in about 68 or 69.
MY Forest Ranger friend and I used the winch on his truck and it worked slick.
I haven't had the time to go back through almost 90 pages of wildlife wisdom but I can share some blood related animal fun facts :)
Mosquitoes prefer type O blood.
Spiders and many crustaceans blood is copper-rich vs. humans which are iron rich. Due to the high copper levels in their blood, it's blue.
Earthworms and leeches have green blood.
Cats have only 3 blood types: A, B and AB
Dogs have 8 blood types and over 13 groups within the types.
Horses have 30 different groups of blood with combinations of at least 8 different antigens.
For the most complicated and fun, we have cows. 11 major blood groups and the B group alone has over 60 different antigens, which makes matching for transfusion tough. After everything is said and done, cows have over 800 blood types.
Happy Friday eve!! :D
Here's a picture of a good boy smiling while doing his part to donate blood for a fellow fur-friend.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53179/dog_donator_blood.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1646928374)
Your updated pic is better (lighter), and I cannot believe that we are using dog blood made in China! :o :D :D :D interesting info.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on January 04, 2021, 09:03:45 AMDid you also know the meat of a warthog is a dark, red flesh rather than white like our American and European pigs.
Do you think this is because of the diet of the warthogs? They are foragers, typically, unlike many of the grain fed hogs here in the USA. I would think it's akin to deer having a deep red color, too.
Quote from: doc henderson on March 10, 2022, 11:16:08 AMdog blood made in China!
The bags are probably manufactured in China... but I think you were joking? :P amiright?
you are correct! ;)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on January 29, 2021, 09:15:09 AMDid you know racoons are famous for washing their food? What they are actually doing is wetting their food, apparently to make it easier to swallow.
Seems odd for a trash panda :D
Quote from: Tacotodd on February 15, 2021, 02:57:03 PMIt's like Sushi. People that will not give it a chance just don't know what they are missing.
Man, I love sushi and sashimi fishin-smiley
Spicy tuna, spicy yellowtail, unagi... give me all of it.
Eons ago, on a first date with a gentleman he brought me for sushi at Ichiban in Hartford. I was (am) quite an enthusiast when it comes to Asian cuisine of any kind, but he insisted on ordering for both of us despite my warnings that a roll consisted of 6 pieces and was quite filling... what came out looked something like this picture but with twice the amount of rolls and sashimi pieces. I think the bill about gave him a heart attack.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53179/Sushi.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1646941894)
** Word of advice: when taking a massive amount of leftover sushi home, do not forget it in the backseat of your car 2 consecutive 90 degree days smiley_sick smiley_sick
SupFellers,
I am thrilled to see some new blood and renewed interest here on this thread. My creative juices tend to run dry at times trying to add something new every day and other members have semi-chastised me accordingly (But I still love them :D).
I knew but had forgotten insects and spiders and such had different colored blood. I never realized there were different blood types for dogs. Our vet had a dog and maybe a cat she kept as a blood donor so I guess I thought they were all the same. Maybe they were of a universal donor type (like a human Type 0 IIFRC).
I did know that horse's are used to make many of the snakebite anti-venom series and many people are allergic to the horse blood which causes them more problems than the snake venom. Eggs are also used for many vaccines. My wife is allergic to eggs and has to be careful with vaccines like yellow fever and TB tests which are made with eggs.
I did not know mosquitos preferred type 0 blood but I knew they would be eating one person up and not bothering the person beside them so that could be part of the problem. (It also makes me glad to be AB+). I think we mentioned somewhere in the distant past here that people who drank sulfur water repelled mosquitos and ticks and redbugs and such.
I don't know if a warthog's diet causes it to be dark meat or if one of our feral domestic hogs (Sus scrofa IIRC) would have darker meat than his pen raised cousins. I do know that migratory birds such as ducks or doves have dark breasts while local mostly terrestrial birds like quail, pheasant and turkeys have white breast meat.
I do like many types of sushi and shasmi but well remember the first time I ate that decorative green after dinner mint (Wasabi) in one bite that it almost stopped my heart. electricuted-smiley Did you take your date to Joe's Bait Shop and Sushi bar for your second date? I hear prices are much more reasonable there but you have to fight the cats for your share. ;)
We're looking forward to more posts, with comments and observations. Great to have you aboard.
Keep on braking for turtles but if they are soft-shelled ones they are probably too fast for you to hit anyway.
the original pcn was made with horse serum and the anaphylaxis that everyone worries about was to foreign horse serum proteins. Now all the grandmothers past down the fear via mothers to the daughters. PCN is manufactured differently and rare to have a reaction. very common to have a rash from a virus under the age of five, and also get thrown on PNC for no good reason (virus), and the saying, "if you ever take it again, you will probably die", just will not go away. Lord give me strength!
Doc,
Thanks for the clarification and update. It is reassuring to know the anti-venoms are safer now but if it is all the same I will continue to avoid getting bitten by a venomous snake. If I have survived this long without doing so chances are good I will continue to avoid such.
not the antivenoms, but the beta lactam antibiotics, Penicillin's and cephalosporins. the ones with the house and garage.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Penicillin_core.svg/180px-Penicillin_core.svg.png)
the house is at the center right (5-sided ring), and is built on a hill in West Virginia, and the garage (4 sides square) has a flat roof to the left of the house.
smiley_carpenter_hit_thumb smiley_fiddler smiley_swinging_board usflag
Doc,
So if I read that right the risk of anti phylactic shock is still present from the anti venom. ::)
BTW - I think the use of chemical symbols as listed above is or certainly should be against FF policy. I will probably wake up screaming tonight from a nightmare that I am back in my permanent seat in Organic chemistry. :(
the old ways are going fast, but I will check on that. we do not use it often. more venomous snakes in western KS. I do not want to misinform. you will likely fair better with anaphylaxis than all the problems with rattle snake bite, however, they are somewhat similar. we can prophylax with steroids and antihistamines. Now I will probably get in trouble for using the term Prophylax... :( :) :) :)
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the house is at the center right (5-sided ring), and is built on a hill in West Virginia, and the garage (4 sides square) has a flat roof to the left of the house.
That's a good one.. 8)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 10, 2022, 04:31:11 PMI don't know if a warthog's diet causes it to be dark meat or if one of our feral domestic hogs (Sus scrofa IIRC) would have darker meat than his pen raised cousins.
I can tell you that a wild hog is not like a domesticated hog. Meat is darker and stronger flavored. Wild turkeys seem to more grayish meat also. From the few I've eaten they are much tougher than a Butterball.
Snake antivenom - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_antivenom)
Antivenom - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antivenom#Side_effects)
look at side effects. as the purification process gets better, we see less side effects.
Wild hogs here, the big ones, are tough as shoe leather and can be nasty. The fat does not taste like domesticated hogs. I don't fool with them. There is one big sounder (what a group of swine are called) of about 25 currently on my homeplace rooting everything up.
Doc,
So with regards to snake anti-venom and rejection issues to antibodies in the host animals used to fabricate the serum, in terms a redneck hillbilly can understand "It'd be a whole lot better iffen we'uns just avoided gettin bit on by any pisen snakes an sech."
Danny & Troy,
Thanks for the update. I knew the meat on a wild hog would likely be leaner just because of the harsher environment in which he has to survive but I had not thought of the fact the fat would be adversely affected. It makes sense it would so we don't want to add it to the sausage grindings. Does the other meat such as the backstrap and tenderloin that we think of as white meat on a domestic hog still appear to be pretty white or would classify it as red meat? I never understood why pork loin lightened in color as it cooked anyway but that is certainly the case for domestic grown pork.
I can understand what a sounder of feral hogs can do rooting as there was one at Mom's house a few years back that had rooted up the field so badly between her house and my brothers place that he said he was tempted to just go plant a couple of acres of turnips and such as the place literally looked like it had been turned and disked. Of course if he had the pigs would have just eaten them too.
I ran into an old classmate who introduced me to her husband and they mentioned having wild hogs on their place. He used a big round heavy wire type trap that he could suspend in the air, bait and watch on wireless with his cell phone and push in a code to drop the trap. He said he routinely caught 20-25 hogs/pigs at a time using it and he said because it was suspended above them they never learned to suspect/fear it and he could use it over and over.
The law there was feral hogs so captured could not be taken out of the county to prevent the spread of various diseases and such. The DNR or actually Fish and Wildlife Dept strongly encouraged people to destroy them on the spot.
Troy,
As to the wild turkeys, yes many people refer to them as being very dry because of the lack of fat. If a wild turkey was as fat as a typical frozen butterball turkey we buy during the holidays he probably could not fly up on his roost and would be dinner for old Wile E Coyote the next time they met up.
Wild hogs do not have the same fat as domesticated hogs. No bacon either. You pretty much treat it like cleaning a deer. There is no white meat on a wild hog, kind of all grayish. The really smelly ones are a challenge to clean. Gotta kind of stay upwind while skinning. Soaking the meat in a salt brine solution for several days will help neutralize a lot of the gaminess in wild hogs. Do not use wild hog fat in your sausage unless you want a LOT of leftovers. Usually the 50-70 lb sows are the most desirable and not quite so strong.
Troy,
Have you every trapped the pen fattened any to see how much that helps?
I am sure that helps if you want to fool with all that.
Some state laws prohibit trapping wild pigs and not killing them. Understand MS is one of them.
Watched this kid in MS posting videos, uses the drop cage to catch pigs, shows night video of the trap dropping, and then gives the pigs away in the community.
CATCHING AND GIVING WILD HOGS TO THE COMMUNITY - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY1RIzuRSCg)
interesting
I recently read that about 50% of the feral hogs are in Texas and it is open season on them 24/7 with no bag limits and no seasons. They have over 2 million of them.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 11, 2022, 08:51:34 PM
Troy,
Have you every trapped the pen fattened any to see how much that helps?
I suspect it's a mix of genetics and diet.
The wild pigs here are all sorts of cross breeds, from the original "Captain Cookers" to basically escaped domestic pigs.
A young sow or juvenile wild pig is good eating, although more red and flavour than domestic pork. Great cooked in a native earth oven (Hangi / Umu). But as mentioned, an older boar is just "nasty".
Quote from: rusticretreater on March 11, 2022, 11:07:34 PM
I recently read that about 50% of the feral hogs are in Texas and it is open season on them 24/7 with no bag limits and no seasons. They have over 2 million of them.
Kinda surprised that with the number of guns and popularity of hunting in the US that they are such a big problem. We have wild pigs in NZ, but between the local hunters and Conservation Dept, they aren't a huge problem.
As you say, no season, no limits, shoot on sight.
They will certainly multiply FAST if the numbers aren't controlled, and are very destructive to both crops and the native ecosystem.
Quote from: WDH on March 11, 2022, 09:46:42 PM
I am sure that helps if you want to fool with all that.
Danny,
I don't see where that would be much different than what our ancestors did. My great grandfather had a big hog claim at the mouth of the Steinhatchee River in North Central Fla. I think he has several square miles of hog claim. The woods were full of feral hogs. They kept permanent hog pens set up and baited around and in them to keep the hogs used to them. They'd trap, mark and castrate the pigs in the spring and release them then catch and fatten and butcher or sell them in the Fall/Winter. I remember my grandfather talking about getting on a horse and throwing a 100 lb bag of corn on it and riding along the old roads and trails throwing out corn. He said the road would be full of hogs. I asked him how he could fatten that many hogs on one bag of corn and he said they had no plans to fatten them with it. The corn was just to gentle them a little and keep them used to people to make them easier to trap later on.
He said when he was 5-6 years old he had a bear foot on a string. His dad or older brothers had trapped and shot the bear and gave him the foot as a toy. He said he dragged it by an old raised log barn with a hog pen underneath where they were fattening a bunch of shoats and he said when they smelled that bear foot they broke out and he said some of those hogs they never did catch again.
G Grandpa would leave a mark for the railroad about how many rail cars to leave at a siding for him to load with hogs. One time he had told them to leave him 2-3 stock cars and when they drove the hogs to the loading chutes they found they only had one stock car so G Grandpa had them cut a bunch of poles and made the first double decker stock car ever seen in that part of the country. Grandpa said it was really a chore loading those big, mean, wild hogs into that car especially the ones on the upper deck. I don't know how many of the boys were with him at the time. G Grandpa had 9 sons but no daughters but one set of twins died at 5-6 years old. One died of measles or such and they said the other one "pined away" for him and died a few days later but not from disease. The two of them were inseparable.
Anyway the hogs just foraged on acorns and berries to survive then they'd trap and fatten as many as they needed for meat or to sell. I don't know how long they had to fatten them to increase the weight and improve the taste.
Anybody selling fresh hog meat back then had to have the head to show the marks on the ears matched his "brand". Not having the head led to more than one actual or suspected meat thief's early demise.
Ian,
Lots of times when they'd trap an old boar the meat would be too rank and they'd either shoot him or just release him as a range boar. A certain number of pigs missed getting trapped, cut and marked every year anyway. Dad said someone in the community had caught a particularly big mean boar and was showing it off an a guy from NC who had a shooting preserve or such up there paid a huge fee (Maybe $25 when a normal meat hog sold for $2-$3) and offered to buy more. Dad said there were some gosh-awful boars trapped and coming out of those swamps for several years after that. The buyer released them on his shooting preserve and charged big fees for wealthy clients to come shoot them.
Feral hogs are not listed as game animals and in many if not most states they can be shot on sight year round and even sometimes at night but they live in remote areas where most of the hunters can't get to them. Most big farmers and ranchers will grant hog hunting access to any respectful hunter who just comes and asks. Mom has a neighbor who is her handyman and he and is kids and grandkids trap and/or shoot several on her place every year there in N. Fla.
Ianab
The tales of guns in the hands of US citizens probably gives a false image of how they are used. ;)
But saw this video of a couple Aussies out for a bit of fun on their ATV's knocking off wild pigs.
Out with the 1887 Cowboy gun n in with the A110 Adler bangin down feral pigs / hogs. - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va8ACVgGtZY)
Quite the riders.. but not like they can get them easily.
Wild hogs are physically a little different than domestic hogs. Nose is longer (Piney Woods Rooter), hair is coarser and thinner, boars will have a thick shield above the shoulders that will stop bullets. Boars have tusk sharp as a knife and can do serious damage. I've heard that it takes a generation or two to get them back to domestication. Feeding one will ease the gaminess but don't think you could feed one to complete domestication. They are very smart and are easily trainable if caught very young.
They are destructive and it looks like a plowed field when they come thru. I get a couple occasionally but not regularly. 30 miles in any direction they become plentiful. Guess people around me keep the numbers down. Many states have no restrictions on hunting them. Texas seems loaded, Florida has a lot.
Most of them are on private land and you can't hunt there without the owners permission. So there is that issue as well.
Quote from: rusticretreater on March 11, 2022, 11:59:32 PM
Most of them are on private land and you can't hunt there without the owners permission. So there is that issue as well.
I guess, if you have absentee landowners that don't even know they have a wild pig problem. That gives them a protected reserve that can breed in, and spread to the neighbours properties,
Like I said they are "shoot on sight" here, and even with that, they are still a pest.
Wild hogs prove, "you are what you eat". To begin with I long ago learned to leave an old boar where he is shot. As described earlier they can be/are quite nasty. My hunting buddies and I made sausage with a not too nasty young boar. The patties smelled ok when cooking, but after eating... I'll just say we had to air out the camp house for a couple of days! I guided hunters along the St. Johns River in Florida where the hogs diet made even the best one's awful smelling to clean, but the young hogs still "ate well". Inland there are some old citrus groves where the hogs would eat grapefruits, leaving a rind that looked like the knocked off cover of a softball. Rather amazing feat actually. Rind would be in one piece with no flesh left on it. Anyway, cleaning those hogs was a pleasure! It was like opening up a citrus air freshener, even the meat smelled better and had a lighter appearance.
Many years ago, I shot a 300lb. barren sow. I had company over for dinner and decided to grill the backstrap. A better use would have been as driveway pavers. I had no idea pork could be so tough! Definitely, should have made sausage out of the whole hog.
I also hunted along the St. Johns in Florida. East of Orlando the Mormon Church owns a whole lot of land. They had over 50 hunting leases of which I hunted on a couple. The Mormon cowboys shot the hogs and let them lay. We paying hunters took a good number but always cleaned ours and managed to give away most of the meat. One of the nastiest boars I took had been living in a cuckleberry sticker thicket. Had to wear leather gloves skinning that one.
Hogs don't see extremely well but you have to sneak up on the from upwind as their sense of smell is remarkable. We used to see how close we could stalk before taking. My first archery hog was pretty close as I'm not much of an archer.
They are smart.
BT,
Neat video of the Aussies on kayaks and ATVs. I know that has to be buckshot but am impressed with some of the distances they are knocking down the pigs. I thought it was funny when the driver ran over one they'd just shot. I'd love to try that but many places where they thrive you could never drive an ATV.
I have seen videos of hunters in Germany where they shoot massive numbers of them and some really impressive shooting.
Best of wild boar hunting | Top kill shots compilation - Ultimate Hunting - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=german+boar+hunting+video&cvid=7086e0b469cf42e582afb67fb2f6f158&aqs=edge..69i57.12963j0j1&pglt=299&PC=U531&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dgerman%2bboar%2bhunting%2bvideo%26cvid%3d7086e0b469cf42e582afb67fb2f6f158%26aqs%3dedge..69i57.12963j0j1%26pglt%3d299%26FORM%3dANSPA1%26PC%3dU531&view=detail&mmscn=vwrc&mid=D295D4E8C60A3FC84B6CD295D4E8C60A3FC84B6C&FORM=WRVORC)
Rustic,
Yes, many are on private land but common courtesy will likely get you access and maybe information and assistance on where and how to hunt them. The landowners are happy to see them gone. Just ask, remove or bury the carcasses, keep the gates closed and take care where you shoot and you'll get all the access you need. The landowner will likely even help keep bait out for you/feeders filled if you are limited in the times you can hunt.
As I mentioned Mom and my brother have them there in Fla and let others hunt them if they just ask.
After a big boar got killed on the road near her I suggested to Mom she might want to lay a heavy trail of corn out to the center median on US HWY 29, a busy 4 lane highway in front of her house (but she and I will both deny it in court if anyone ever asks).
I've only made it to page 12 of reading through this library of knowledge.
I'm sure they'll be many more questions to come 😊
Most of Texas has a shoot to kill on hogs. But a lot of land and a lot of hogs makes it difficult to control them when todays litter has produced 3 litters of their own in a year. Explosive populations in some areas. We can hunt and kill them any way, at any time. meat on young ones edible, much past 50 pounds and the meat becomes questionable.
And they will scare the dickens out of you working the woods and they show up, unexpectedly. Been up a tree a few times in the past.
Did you know when a dog, fox, wolf or coyote goes to lie down they typically walk in a circle (Clockwise as I remember) several times to help push the grass down for a bed? Then when they lay down if the weather is cold they will curl the tip of their tail up over their nose to help keep it warm.
Wild hogs....Here in the hills of north Louisiana, they have become a big problem. They come out of the woods and invade residential areas at night. Legal to take them any way any time except poison bait. I have a neighbor who bought a remote controlled trap fitted with a remote camera. Leave the gate open and bait inside for several nights, watch the camera. When the pen gets full of pigs, trigger the remote gate. He has disposed of around 600 in the last year, mostly within city limits.
Years ago, when just about everybody had free ranging hogs and cows, most folks kept a few special dogs bred to track and corral hogs. Ever hear of a breed named "catahoula hog dog ? Medium size dog, very fast and very agile, but stubborn to the extreme.
Piney,
I did not know about the remote controlled gates but it makes sense. I know some traps trip but more hogs can continue to get in because it has a one way door. They can push their way in but not out.
The trap my old classmate said they used was elevated so the hogs never saw it till they remotely released it which was why they could use it over and over without the hogs ever getting alarmed or scared of it. Sounds like a similar release system to the one you are describing. The only problem I could see with it would be finding a spot they could hang it. I don't know if it hangs from a tree limb or if they can set up some sort of movable frame to hang it.
BTW: I had heard of Catahoula curs and maybe Catahoula Cattle Dogs. I think a neighbor from Texas when I was in USMC had one named Marmaduke who was a brindle colored dog. I can see where they would be good hog dogs.
I heard an old man who knew my Great Grandfather and said he always had a pack of feist dogs (Small mixed breed dogs back then I am sure) that he used for hog dogs. He said he saw them jump an 8 point buck there one time and the dogs were fighting it out in a pond or canal and GGrandpa ran out there and pulled out a big pocketknife and cut the deer's throat with it.
I had a job on an inside Houston city limits 5000 acre Shell tract. Noticed hog tracks all over the place. This tract is surrounded by sub divisions, some high dollar. I asked my company contact man about the hogs. He said no hunting or fire arms on the tract, and the hogs were over running the subdivisions because the folks were feeding the "cute little piggies" over the years and were now complaining about yard damage. No hunting or shooting in the sub divisions, either. The subs had to hire trappers to come in, but they did little good.
Shell saw no reason to control the pests.
Did you know an effective way to catch a lot of crawfish quickly for fish bait is by using a long handled shrimp net (About 12" diameter with 1/4" mesh on a 5' handle) and drag it through a bedding area such as a shallow, warm water ditch full of leaves? In the summer the crawfish lay their eggs in these ditches and they hatch out massive numbers of baby crawfish. You can easily see if there are crawfish present because when you walk near them they start scooting away and under cover. When you put your net in and scrap forward the crawfish will instinctively scoot backwards into your net. I found a ditch like this near our church in Albany Ga and every Sunday after church I would stop and make a few passes and catch several hundred 1" long crawfish. I'd keep them in the shade in a cool shed in a styrofoam bait bucket and they would easily keep all week. The 1" size was perfect as every fish out there would nail him. This included bream, crappie, bass, and catfish. Many fish were scared of a larger (2"-3") crawfish so any of them I caught I would pull the tail off and use the meat of it on a jig spinner in place of the plastic grub with ultralight tackle. Especially in moving water the spinner would attract the fish and when they smelled the fresh meat they'd grab it.
Did you know a hyena is not a member of the canine family? In fact it is closer to felines than canines but that limb off the evolutionary tree got broken a long time ago and hyenas have their own unique family with 4 species IIRC.
BTW - did you know hyena clans are led by females instead of an alpha male? I won't comment more on that as I have already burned enough bridges with the ladies here on the FF. ::) ;) :D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 14, 2022, 10:11:57 AM
I won't comment more on that as I have already burned enough bridges with the ladies here on the FF. ::) ;) :D
Not only knowledgeable but starting to get wise too. :D
Nope. Just waiting for the bruises to heal first. :D
Did you know one of the biggest current threats to Bald and Golden Eagles is lead poisoning? The eagles catch wounded ducks and such or scavenge the dead ones and they ingest (That's a fancy word for swallow for most of us) the lead pellets which build up in their digestive systems and slowly poison them. No doubt other raptors such as owls, hawks and ospreys and such as similarly affected as are large fish eating birds such as great blue herons who eat fish with lead fishing weights and lures inside them.
Raptors, crows, ravens, vultures and buzzards eating gut piles of deer, elk, moose and antelope and such are also sometimes affected by eating fragments of rifle bullets in the remains.
This is why there is a big push to restrict the use of lead shot in shotgun shells in favor of copper jacketed and other types of shot but this move is often rejected by hunters because the lighter weight of such shot reduces the range, penetration and effectiveness of such shot.
Lead has been outlawed for waterfowl hunting for many years. Only steel shot is legal for any migratory bird hunting.
I've read about the Tungsten Super Shot. Said to be the rage among turkey hunters these days, but it works on ducks and geese, too. The extreme density of TSS (50 percent denser than lead) changes shot size selection radically because small, dense pellets penetrate deeply.
Expensive
$10 per round, called heavy steel.
There was a very well respected old turkey hunter where I grew up in N. Fla who always used #8 shot for his turkey hunting. He always said you only needed one good pellet in the head to kill a turkey and there were a whole lot more pellets in an ounce of #8 shot than #4. (Looks like approximately 410 #8 pellets vs 135 #4 pellets per ounce.)
Quote from: Magicman on March 15, 2022, 06:55:47 PM
Lead has been outlawed for waterfowl hunting for many years. Only steel shot is legal for any migratory bird hunting.
MM,
Thanks for the reminder. I had read about steel shot for waterfowl but have not really hunted them in nearly 50 years and even then all we had in N. Fla were a few wood ducks. (I don't even think there was any such thing as steel shot back then.) We were not on any kind of significant flyway like I am sure you guys are.
Other than an occasional turkey hunt every few years behind my house I have not used much of anything except a rifle or bow for 30 years. My 2 fox squirrels this year for the taxidermist was the first time I've had my shotgun out for years.
Quote from: beenthere on March 15, 2022, 07:37:06 PMTungsten
Funny story about tungsten.
About 20 years ago I saw an ad for a Craftsman metal lathe and lots of other stuff for sale starting at 8am. I got there at 7 and camped out at the gate. The guy let me in early (no one else was around) and I gave him $100 to hold it while I ran to the bank for the rest. When I came back with a buddy to pick it up, he said I could have whatever metal was around it as well.
There was a cylinder about the size of a soda can sitting on the bench. I went to pick it up and I thought it was stuck to the paint. It weighed something like 15 pounds, IIRC. A shocking amount for that size.
A couple months later, I had it sitting on
my workbench when my brother came to visit (ex- machinist). I told him to pick it up. He did and quickly set it down and stepped back. He asked if it was Plutonium! :D
Since waterfowl are migratory, they are managed by federal law and only non-toxic shot can be in your possession while hunting them. I think this may even extend to sidearm ammo.
I once hunted ducks quite a lot, and have used Bismuth shot which is heaver than lead, but at the time it was like $5 every time you pull the trigger, vs about $1 for steel.
I look now and premium steel shot is about $20/box, Heavy shot (W matrix) is $40/box and Bismuth is $45/box.. So now the steel is 80c, W-matrix $1.60, and Bi is $1.80 (bargain compared to what I remember).
I always just used #2 steel because I was poor, and with steel I was not tempted to take low% long shots, always waited until I could see the color on the feet so would be close enough for hard hit, and few lost/wounded ducks.
Here is a table with the shot weights:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18492/periodic_table.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1647438889)
You can also get mixed steel with Bismuth shot.
Back in my teens I only had a 20 gauge Wingmaster pump to hunt ducks with and I could not buy #2 shot for it so I bought a little Lee Loader hand loader and made my own. That also allowed me to make some double ought and #1 buckshot loads whereas only #3 buckshot was available commercially for 20 gauge loads.
I don't know if you can buy tungsten shot for reloading but assume it is out there somewhere. Of course these last few years finding any kind of reloading or black powder or other hunting supplies has been a real challenge and real pricey. I probably have not used my loader in 40+ years.
I don't know what happens when an Eagle eats steel or tungsten shot. Maybe it passes through their system much faster with little if any harm.
I know when you bite into a steel shot, your teeth hurt.. I wonder how a beak feels on steel? the larger diameter and lighter steel doesn't always pass through the duck meat.
JJ
Did you know that "Shell Pearls" are made oyster and clam shells? The color of the lining of the shell determines the color of the pearl. Shells are sawed into strips like long narrow triangles or thin wedges then sawed crossways into blocks then polished and made into round pieces that are drilled and strung. The wider end makes for bigger pearls while the ones on the little end make the smaller diameter beads. They shine and work just like natural pearls when given the teeth test. I saw white, black, and grey ones and even some with a gold looking tint to them.
We watched how they made them in a jewelry store in Thailand back about 10-12 years ago while on vacation there. I was stationed in Okinawa all of 1986 and bought a lot for my wife and other lady members of the family while I was there. I bought most of them at the USO on base and hit several jackpots on the 25 cent slot machines in the club one night and immediately went over and bought all the ladies their Christmas presents as shell pearls. (I knew my wife was not going to let me keep the money anyway. :D) I had been mostly buying 8 mm necklaces and bracelets and such and sending them to my wife and I saw some 3 mm ones and threw in a couple of pieces made from them. The smaller ones were much cheaper than the bigger ones. Of course you know which ones the wife liked best. Yep, she loved the little one but only after I had loaded her up on the bigger ones. There ain't no figuring them wimmin out. ::)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 16, 2022, 11:28:04 AM
There ain't no figuring them wimmin out. ::)
You seem to have been rehabilitated, don't go back there :). Just say No.
Danny,
I say a lot more than no. I get on my knees, I promise I will never do it again, I ask her to forgive me then if she seems to be willing to accept my apology I ask what I did. ::)
Did you know deer, especially does with young ones nearby, give signals with their tail as to what their mood is. You can watch the tail to see if it is alarmed, content, nervous, curious, etc.
Apparently bucks do not give off as many signals as they are not keyed to warn other deer in their area.
I can remember my grandfather talking about shooting at a nice buck and said something to the effect "Then I seen his flag drop and I knew I had him" so one indicator is a mortally wounded deer will tuck his tail as a dying reflex.
Here is a link to some of the deer tail signals to watch for:
https://www.outdoorlife.com/8-ways-whitetails-communicate-with-their-tails-and-what-each-means-for-hunters/
Did you know that different fish move to different water levels throughout the year, month and even throughout the day based on light, temperature, moon phases, dissolved oxygen levels in the water, food availability, available cover, bottom conditions, and other factors?
We think of catfish as a bottom dwelling fish but I routinely fill my freezer by catching them on limblines that are rarely 2' and often less than 1' from the surface. We tend to think of them as scavengers but I catch mine on live bait.
Bass, crappie and bream move into shallow waters to bed in the spring and summer months. Where I grew up in N. Fla I fished old gravel borrow pits and bluegills would bed on the shallow sandy points between April-September and sometimes as early as March and as late as October. I've seen bass and bluegills making nests in water so shallow their tails would stick out of the water in the process. The bream bed (move to and lay their eggs in shallow sandy depressions) on the full moon each month. That was also a good time to catch them at night on a flyrod using a rubber legged floating cork bug. That worked best a few days before the full moon.
At and after the full moon they got skittish and if you eased over their nest they would actually jump out of the water and hit or land in your boat. That may sound like a good way to catch them but if you've ever had one hit your hand resting on the side of the boat or land in your lap in an area famous for big, contrary cottonmouths you will discover there are probably easier and more comfortable ways to collect your dinner.
In the Spring and Fall Crappie often feed in 2-4 ft depths while at other times they tend to be deeper.
High tech modern fishermen use fish finders to determine depth of the water, structure (brushpiles, rocky outcrops, etc.), and even see individual or schools of fish at times. They also use gauges to determine temperature and oxygen levels and such and adjust their fishing accordingly.
Did you know fish eggs are called Roe? Many, if not all, species are good to eat and at certain times of the year some fish are targeted for their row. I remember going to a fish market in Cross City Fla as a kid and dad stocked up on Roe mullet and the roe was preferred over the meat of the fish itself.
In summer months I am really careful when cleaning bream so as not to puncture the egg sack. The bellies of the bream will be really swollen. We would meal and fry them just like the rest of the fish. One reason they were preferred was the fact there were no bones. ;)
I don't remember us ever saving the roe from catfish or even the larger bass. I know catfish had blood filled arteries or veins running through them. Maybe we did not cook them because they were so big it would be hard to get them cooked done. You could not slice them into smaller pieces like you would the fish itself.
I saw one show where a guy in Louisiana was catching bowfin for the roe to make what he called Cajun caviar so I assume he served to raw.
If any of you cook and eat the catfish or bass roe please pass along any cooking tips you have learned about it.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 19, 2022, 09:10:04 AM
Did you know fish eggs are called Roe? Many, if not all, species are good to eat and at certain times of the year some fish are targeted for their row. I remember going to a fish market in Cross City Fla as a kid and dad stocked up on Roe mullet and the roe was preferred over the meat of the fish itself.
In summer months I am really careful when cleaning bream so as not to puncture the egg sack. The bellies of the bream will be really swollen. We would meal and fry them just like the rest of the fish. One reason they were preferred was the fact there were no bones. ;)
I don't remember us ever saving the roe from catfish or even the larger bass. I know catfish had blood filled arteries or veins running through them. Maybe we did not cook them because they were so big it would be hard to get them cooked done. You could not slice them into smaller pieces like you would the fish itself.
I saw one show where a guy in Louisiana was catching bowfin for the roe to make what he called Cajun caviar so I assume he served to raw.
If any of you cook and eat the catfish or bass roe please pass along any cooking tips you have learned about it.
True but if it's from the Sturgeon family it's Caviar
We ate the roe from trout we would catch in the cold waters in Missouri. we would fish in the morning and mom would go down stream to a park area and we would pull out there for breakfast, eggs, trout, trout eggs and bacon.
Herring roe is big business around here, I got some relatives that were in it 30 years ago they got in it and out of it at just the right time it seems, some of them retired in their early thirties.
How most of it is caught.
Video Docudrama #2 Seine Fishing Off Shore Halifax Nova Scotia - YouTube (https://youtu.be/A-UuxHHpJdk)
How it is processed.
Herring Roe Processing Yarmouth Nova Scotia - YouTube (https://youtu.be/V05yRtIXTLg)
Thanks for the videos. I have several questions and observations as follows:
1. Herring are bigger than I thought they were. (I thought they were sardine sized only).
2. I never knew they harvested the roe out of herrings. (Those looked like pretty nice sized roe and look real tasty.)
3. I did not see anyone scaling the fish but I assume they were run through a scaler before or after they were gutted in the fish processing line.
4. Was that water in the bottom of the big plastic crates they were filling with fish?
5. If someone didn't remember to pick up the fish that fell between the crates that was not going to be a real fun place to work in a day or so.
6. I am reminded again that I never wanted to be a fish monger. ::)
Seeing the fish fall between the crates reminds me of an old wood boat Dad used to leave at the local boat landing on the river when I was a kid and before people got so destructive and thieves were so bad. The last thing he would do after a day of fishing was to slip a couple of small bream under the catwalks. I asked him one day why he did that and he said he figured it would make his boat stink worse than the others at the landing so if someone was going to try to steal or borrow one they'd get the other's first. I reminded him that we might want to use it too. I guess since he worked at a paper mill he could tolerate the smell better than others anyway. ::)
Being a fish has to be very bad.
A couple of us friends used to run around quite a bit together-mostly fishing. Jimmy, my current ag teaching partner, was the last of the group to get married, build/buy a house and have children. He would make it a point to show up while we were building our houses or doing some other laborious tasks to show off his big bass or livewell packed with speckled perch.
After he got married, his mother gave me a key to his house. We redecorated for him, changed his answering machine, put his boat and truck on the market for sale (he was also a bass guide), pulled all of the labels off of his canned goods, turned off his water heater, pulled line off of a few of his reels, snipped the line and respooled it on the reel, switched the salt and sugar container contents, filled the ice trays with vinegar, hid the toilet paper in the oven, created a dummy to sit on the toilet holding an SKS rifle and to top it off we allegedly placed several large bass carcasses in the livewell of his boat and under the tool box in his truck.
He eventually got over it. We even filmed it all in Super8 video. My children loved to watch it when they were younger as all of the participants were wearing masks. I showed Jimmy a year or so later. His wife still has not seen it and after 20 years it is still a bit of a sore subject with her. They were evidently not fans of fish and rice.
Very funny
Remember
Payback is sweetest when served up cold
;D ;D
Cheers
Al
Cavey,
Sounds like a great trick but I'd be leery of the TP in the oven for safety concerns.
Okay for today I'm reaching out to our experienced readers for information.
Do you know if circle hooks work well for crappie fishing? I have gone to them exclusively for limblines and catch big catfish on them. I am still not exactly sure how they work but they do! They hook a lot better than my old J style hooks and a big advantage is they hook in the tough mouth/lip of the catfish and it is easier to unhook the fish. But a crappie has such a big, tender mouth I don't know if a circle hook would still hook him and, if it does, will it hold or will it tear out? Any experienced users and if so any recommendations as to hook sizes to use.
If they work how come nobody has invented a jig using a circle hook? (Is Bill Dance out there reading this thread? If you use this idea and invent a circle hook crappie jig and make a ton of money, I'll send to address to send my check and Jeff can let you know where to send the FF share. :D)
I cannot believe that you are not filthy rich by now with all your almost inventions :D.
Quote from: WDH on March 20, 2022, 09:00:17 AMI cannot believe that you are not filthy rich by now.....
Sooooo, you are saying that he is not ?? ??? :o ::)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 19, 2022, 06:53:45 PM3. I did not see anyone scaling the fish but I assume they were run through a scaler before or after they were gutted in the fish processing line.
4. Was that water in the bottom of the big plastic crates they were filling with fish?
5. If someone didn't remember to pick up the fish that fell between the crates that was not going to be a real fun place to work in a day or so.
I have never worked in the fish business but my wife worked "cutting roe" in a fish plant 30 years ago so I asked her for more info.
#3: The fish are not descaled, they are processed the same as they come out of the ocean. In the processing they are sorted (male or female) you may have noticed the workers putting some fish in the lower troth without cutting them. Some fish plants have a machine to sort the fish before it gets to the roe cutters.
#4: That would have been chipped ice & water in the bottom of the fish tubs, the tubs are insulated but the ice will melt some before the fish gets put in.
#5: The fish tubs won't be on the truck long, sometimes the fish processing plant will only be down the street a few hundred feet, sometimes a few hundred miles, some fish plants use tanker trailers instead of fish tubs on flat decks.
Quote from: Magicman on March 20, 2022, 09:31:14 AM
Quote from: WDH on March 20, 2022, 09:00:17 AMI cannot believe that you are not filthy rich by now.....
Sooooo, you are saying that he is not ?? ??? :o ::)
Danny,
Its all in my Accounts Receivable file waiting for various multi-millionaires to get a severe enough attack of conscience to get off their wallets and clear their accounts. It is amazing how long some people can go and how little attention they can pay to those little those nagging little voices in their brains.
Lynn,
I am wealthy. Just spent the weekend with all 5 grandkids. I was able to show the 3 y/o GD and our 5 y/o GS their first crawfish from our creek. The GS protected his little sister staying between her and the mudbug till it dropped back in the creek. Then last night they put on a show for us with the 3 y/o doing repeat renditions of the theme song to batman. Then the GS did several "shows" the all time best was his moves and version to Twisted Sister.
Your browser is deprecated. Please upgrade. (https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=V9AbeALNVkk&list=RDAMVMV9AbeALNVkk)
This morning the 3 y/o was singing it too.
Then we spent several hours at our son's place where we all attended the 10 y/o's birthday party. You can't buy that kind of wealth with money.
WV, I've never used circle hooks for specks (crappie) but have used them for grouper, snapper, bass, tarpon, snook, and speckled trout (spotted weakfish) among others. Speckled trout have fragile mouths also and when fishing live bait with inexperienced fishermen, they usually get a circle hook.
I have seen jigs with circle hooks used for tarpon and grouper (several ounces of lead and 6/0-8/0 hooks), but I do not recall seeing any small circle hook jigs. There is no reason that they should not work. The hooking action of the circle hook seems to work based on leverage and the turning action of the bent point when there is a steady pull on the line. Steady pressure seems to bury a circle hook better than a jerk to set the hook as is common with a J hook. The only time I prefer to use a circle hook is when fishing for grouper in deep water with live or cut bait.
Cavey,
Thanks for the info. I knew circle hooks worked well for fish with a tough mouth and lips but had never heard of anyone using them for tender mouth fish like crappie. I may try some this year if I do any crappie fishing for a change.
Did you know that a crawfish has 10 legs? He has 4 pairs of walking legs with tiny, weak pincers on the end and a big pair of pincers on the front that he uses for tearing his food apart and for defense as they are pretty powerful. Crawfish are largely scavengers and eat dead meat and fish they smell in the water and apparently they eat decaying plant matter.
I guess I always thought they had 8 legs and did not remember ever counting them till this weekend when I put out a couple of minnow traps in the creek in the front yard to show the visiting grandkids. They were scared of the big "snappers" and were excited to check the traps during the day but pretty anxious to return them to the water once caught. They had no intention of handling them but these were pretty big and probably best that they did not do so till they were a little older.
Two pot belly pigs take on bear
https://www.avclub.com/angry-pot-bellied-pigs-fight-bear-1848680403 (https://www.avclub.com/angry-pot-bellied-pigs-fight-bear-1848680403)
I saw that one and was surprised at the ending.
Definitely funny how the bear looked back after he got out 😂
Did you know that a crawfish will regrow a lost pincer? The same is true of a stone crab and many other species. In some states only one claw from a stone crab can be saved and then the crab must be released.
It is interesting that many primitive animals lower on the evolutionary scale can regenerate lost limbs while animals higher on the scale cannot. A crawfish or crab is about as high on the scale as any animal I can think of that can regenerate.
Scientists and doctors have been studying this trait in hopes they can use it to somehow trigger the human body to regenerate lost limbs and digits and such.
Did you know that many fish and shellfish, particularly squid and octopus, change colors to match their surroundings? Stonefish will match the color of the coral where they are laying in ambush for their prey and be nearly impossible to see. A squid, cuttlefish or octopus will do the same thing.
While spearfishing in the Red Sea one time I shot at a fish and missed (Yeah, I found that hard believe too :D) but I noticed my spear was wiggling. When I pulled it out of the bottom, I noticed I had impaled a small stonefish. This was actually a problem as they are covered with poisonous spines making him very hard to remove. Kind of like the first time I went frog gigging and gigged a big angry water snake. and had to pull it off. Another less brilliant idea of mine but the stonefish was purely unintentional.
Did you know some people stock their livestock water tanks with goldfish to help control the algae and mosquito larva that try to raise in them? I put a few minnows/darters in my lower tank a couple days ago and am going to put a few more up in the upper tank as I see wiggletails in it. If this works I'll have cleaner stock tanks (One is an old cast iron bathtub and the other is a big, black, rubber tank) and maybe a ready source for crappie and catfish minnows.
I remember we had a big concrete tank in our waste treatment plant in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia and our Filipino workers said in their country they would put carp in such tanks. They would raise and grow on the nutrients in the effluent and they would harvest and eat them. We would not do so for fear of toxins and heavy metals present.
I recall back when we were kids on the farm, we most always kept a half dozen or so Bullhead in our cattle watering tank.
Kind of funny during the winter, when we let the cattle out to drink, at times they would empty the tank and the fish would be flopping around on their sides until the incoming water was enough so they could swim again!
One winter we even had a 3-foot freshwater eel in there, but he survived.
When Michelle was an ag tech at State one of the experiments she took care of was a vegetable greenhouse with the plants in sandbeds in benches. It was originally intended for arid regions. The slatted floor had been dug out underneath into several ponds that they raised tilapia in. There were timed pumps that sucked off the bottom of the tanks and watered the plants, which filtered the water and used the nutrients. The water, filtered by plants and sand, would drain back to the fish tanks below.
Did you know that river mussels seem to prefer areas with a lot of gravel instead of just sand? I grew up fishing on the Escambia River in N. Fla and it was a pretty swift river with lots of curves and turns and such which created lots of big sandbars. While we would find a few small mussels in the sand the most and the biggest mussels were always on the bars with a lot of gravel. I assume this is a preferred place to spawn and the eggs hold on the the rocks and gravel better than the sand.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 25, 2022, 11:25:44 AMI assume this is a preferred place to spawn and the eggs hold on the the rocks and gravel better than the sand.
Interesting. Or maybe the predators have a harder time extracting them from the gravel?
Did you know that once sockeye salmon head upriver from the ocean they are caught by snag hooking them in the mouth? Seems the fish don't feed during their final journey. They swim upriver open and closing their mouth. They are caught by drifting a weighted bare hook with streamers or flies tied on them and as the leader encounters the open mouth the hook will hopefully hang in the jaw of the salmon.
Troy,
i knew in some cases salmon were snagged but I never heard of or realized people were trying to snag them in the mouth. From your description I understand the fish are swimming upstream with their mouths open and fishermen are basically trying to toss a stream or such into their mouth and hook them.
I wonder if a J hook or circle hook works better in this case?
Sacramento is a long way from the ocean. And Redding (Lake Shasta) is even further. When the salmon enter fresh water, they stop feeding. We use a "lure" called a flat fish. It has a big bill that causes it to wobble in the current. You rig it with a big drop weight to keep it near the bottom (6" to 18"). You let it out slow an "walk" it back away from your boat. The salmon come along and see these "fish" and attack them to protect the reds. Sometimes you will snag the side of their head as they hit it - those have to be let go. Others will use a big jig. They drop it to the bottom and rip it up 2 or 3 feet and repeat. Those guys will often get an illegal snag in the gut or tail. Lots of fun trying to steer a tail hooked 30-35 pound fish!!
Did you know a potato rake is commonly used to rake clams along the South Carolina coast? I learned this technique from our MWR rep at Parris Island Recruit Depot when I was stationed there in the USMC.
We would got to The Jean Ribault Monument at the end of the road next to the golf course on Parris Island SC at low tide. We would walk along the edge of the golf course and the wives, when they went alone, would take our son's little red wagon then climb down the slick mud bank to the marsh 20' below. We would rake through the oyster shells in the shallow water and the clams would turn and slip between the fingers of the potato rakes and hang. Often when the muddy water cleared up we would spot other clams we had exposed and rake them in.
We only had an hour or so of low tide before the tide started coming back in and flooded us out. The wives got real good at reading the tidal tables, one would baby sit the small children and the rest would go rake clams. They would often fill a 5 gallon bucket. one problem was a 5 gallon bucket full of clams is heavy.
It was like trying to walk/climb back up that greasy mud bank carrying a couple of cinder blocks. We/They would have to cut steps into the bank and work our way back up to the top. Once on top the ladies would go to a golf ball washing station there on the golf course and wash the worst of the mud off themselves and and their gear and return home and share their clams with the lady on baby sitting duty - as task which they would rotate amongst themselves.
We would keep the clams in a bucket of water in the shade and they would live and stay fresh a week or more like that. We would typically cook them by putting a dozen or so on a BBQ grill over hot coals or on a shallow pan in the oven and they would cook in their shells. Once done the shells would pop open inndicating they were ready to eat.
Those old potatoe rakes are also useful for opening up a beaver dam where you either don't have a machine or can't get to that dam with a machine.
Quote from: KEC on March 26, 2022, 03:45:27 PM
Those old potatoe rakes are also useful for opening up a beaver dam where you either don't have a machine or can't get to that dam with a machine.
Dynamite has to be the preferred beaver dam modification tool. Those logs are so tied together from every direction and packed with mud it is almost impossible to take one apart and if you are down south there is always a swarm of mosquitoes and deerflies and handful of cottonmouths who don't appreciate you messing with their home too. ::)
Deer flies? Mosquitos? Sure enough, got them up here in good supply. We had a job to do on a muggy buggy day down in the swamp a few years back. I'm not an insect repellent guy too much,but that day I was just about spraying DEET in my mouth!
But you're right WV, not too many cottonmouths....
Did you know that some, if not many/most fish can feed on items on the surface without ever breaking the surface of the water? Yes, sometimes you will see a fish jump completely out of the water after a flying insect or such. I once saw a largemouth bass jump out of the water nearly 2' trying to catch bird on a cypress knee.
But a common way of feeding especially on surface insects such as mosquitoes and especially in a big Mayfly hatch is for the fish to ease up to a couple of inches from the bug then force the water through his gills creating a vacuum pulling the insect into his mouth. In fact during a Mayfly hatch on our local lake you can approach any low hanging bush or limb where the Mayflies are swarming and falling into the lake and you will hear little popping or slurping sounds and see little ripples emanate in a circle about the size of a dinner plate as they pull the bug under. The fish never break the surface of the water.
It is fun to watch when fishing with a fly line and a floating cork or foam bug with little rubber legs. I toss the bug into a likely looking spot then twitch it a time or two to simulate a swimming bug and attract local fish. It is common when the water is fairly clear to see the fish ease up to a few inches under the bug and stop and watch sometimes for several seconds. Sometimes they will slap at it as if to kill it but when you hear the loud slurp he has sucked it down. When you land the fish you will almost always find the bug hooked several inches in the fish's throat rather than in the lip.
Case Fishing Knife | Duluth Trading Company (https://www.duluthtrading.com/case-fishing-knife-54838.html?srccode=BPSMART&ogmap=ogmap=PLA%7CNB%7CBING%7C%7C%7C%7C%7CBing%20Shopping%20-%20Prospect%20-%20Smart_Out_Region%7CAd%20group%7C%7C396571661%7C1257841876478574&src=&admkt=&mkwid=s_dc&pcrid=&pkw=&pmt=e&productid=54838&msclkid=5d4cfe4b569e1e2fe8259c0bc79a27ee)
The link shows a style of fish knife where one blade has a combination scaler and hook disengorger. The narrow blade and the notch in the end of the blade is the best tool I have found to unhook such a deeply hooked fish with a small mouth such as a bluegill. I keep several of these in my boat. Don't worry about the brand. Many companies make them and the $2 Chinese special works just as well as the most expensive one on the market.
Anyway, the next time you hear a slight popping noise on the lake grab your fly rod and go have some fun. I often keep a long pole in my boat and go bang it against leafy overhanging bushes and vines during a Mayfly hatch to make them swarm and fall in the water. I ease back a few feet and toss a baited hook with a BB shot under a float a foot or so deep and catch a bluegill or two. They will be slashing the water like Piranhas at time. Often I use a pinch of night crawler or just put a Mayfly or two on a long shanked #8 or #6 cricket hook.
I am really surprised we did not get any comments to the last past - there was some really good information there. ???
Did you know that bream, especially bluegills go to their beds (little depressions in the sand) every full moon in the summer (Late Spring to early Fall) and lay more eggs? About 3 days before the full moon is often a very good time to go catch them with a flyrod and floating cork or foam bug as described in the last post. I prefer a white or lime green round bug but that just me. I find the bream will bite much further from structure and such at night than in the day time and that I'd catch lots of fish in places I'd never catch them in the daylight. I generally make shorter casts. Let the bug lay a longer time before I try to wiggle the legs and listen closely. Often you will never hear the strike and just feel the fish on the line and sometimes when you start to make your next cast you find a fish on or snatch a small surprised bluegill out of the lake to come sailing past your ear.
You need pretty much a dead calm night for this kind of fishing. Any light chop on the water will prevent the fish from seeing and hearing the bug land and you will not hear the strike. I assume a lot more bugs are out at night and are falling into the water and the fish are out looking for them.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 25, 2022, 09:22:18 PMi knew in some cases salmon were snagged but I never heard of or realized people were trying to snag them in the mouth.
The fish are opening and closing their mouth as they swim upstream in the current. Legally you have to hook them in the mouth or let them go. A 'foul hooked' fish will sometimes break your rod if not your line. "Combat Fishing" as it is called is where you use a hook ( required to have a fly or ribbon on it) with a split shot about 2 feet above it. Use just enough weight to take the hook to the bottom but it must bounce along in the current, The line is cast 45 degrees upstream and as the line drifts down, it will sometimes get caught in a open fish mouth. When you pull the line in, it hooks the mouth as you are pulling the leader through the fish's mouth. Then the battle is on! In Alaska you line up in the river, knee deep, almost shoulder to shoulder, and most use a heavy weight fly rod with 20-30 lb mono to catch the 8 lb sockeye. Everyone has to throw and retrieve in unison or everyone gets tangled. A holler of "Fish ON!" and the two people on either side pull their line in so you can battle your catch. It is not uncommon for a hook to pull out and the hook and sinker send someone to the emergency room. They are usually back that afternoon with a couple stitches and a 'trophy hook'. Google combat fishing for some interesting watching.
I have foul hooked a few fish when they'd slap at a lure or such and get hooked in the belly, side of the head or the tail. Its hard for me to imagine deliberately and successfully foul hooking one in the mouth as I understand here. I wonder what is your cast to hook ratio or do you just cast and leave it out there till one sucks it in?
I don't think I have the personality or patience to fish with that many people on both sides of me especially if they are strangers. I don't do well on party boats and such.
I do know the sockeye or red salmon as we always called them were pretty good eating. My BIL in Alaska sent us some as frozen freight and my wife and daughter went up on a trip for pink and silver salmon. My daughter had won the fishing trip but the guide and pilots and such quickly found they were happier to go around taking pictures than fishing.
Did you know Razor Clams (in Alaska) are highly sought after? They look sort of like a big hot dog about 4" or so long and are quite tasty. Around the Cook Inlet area, the tide goes out and exposes quite a bit of beach. The clams are 6" or so down in the mud but they leave a bubble hole in the wet mud. You look for the bubble hole. You use a 6" tube about a foot long with a T handle on the end. The handle has a hole so when you push the tube over the clam (very quickly as they can go thru the mud amazingly fast) you cover the hole with your finger and as you pull the plug of mud up the suction causes the plug to come straight up inside the tube. Release the hole and the plug drops out hopefully with a clam. There is a season and limit on clams you can harvest.
Sockeye is great, almost as good as King Salmon but I never caught a King. In Alaska during the salmon season it is daylight about 23 hours a day. I did a lot of my salmon fishing late night to avoid the crowds. 2 AM there is like 3PM in the south.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 28, 2022, 09:57:10 AMI wonder what is your cast to hook ratio or do you just cast and leave it out there till one sucks it in?
You are continually drifting and retrieving your line. Your hookup ratio improves with you skills. You might cast and drift 20-30 times before connection or you may be in a good spot and hook one every 5-10 cast. Location is important as the fish can be funneled around obstacles such as boulders that will increase your chances.
Troy,
If I remember Razor clams are long and thin and I guess they were named after old straight razors and might have even been used by indigenous tribes as razors to shave their heads and such.
It sounds like a fun way to fish for them. I wonder if a long narrow trenching shovel/spade with about a 4" wide X 16" long blade would work? Maybe press it down from just past the hole and hope to slide the blade under the clam so he can't scoot back then pry up the load and hope he is in it.
I did know that clams are able to move a lot more and a lot faster than many people give them credit for. I think they use hydraulics pushing the water out to propel themselves.
Quote from: TroyC on March 28, 2022, 10:02:56 AMSockeye is great, almost as good as King Salmon but I never caught a King.
I've only had one ocean-caught Sockeye that I got on a party boat in the sound south of Seattle. BBQ'd it for lunch, yumm. Down here, I've caught King in the Sacramento and American rivers. Quite a fight and quite tasty. I also lake fish and we have planted Kings in Folsom lake (very good eating) and further up the hill (6,000' ele) Sockeye are planted (called Kokanee) in Stampede and neighboring reservoirs. They don't get big (17" is huge) but make up for it with phenomenal fighting and superior taste!
Here in New York they planted Coho and Chinook Salmon in Lake Ontario which swim up numerous rivers and streams to spawn. For a period of years, people were using big weighted treble hooks, casting and retrieving and hooking fish in all parts of the body. It was carnage and sparked a lot of outrage. Now, for a fish to be legal, it must be hooked in the mouth. As I understand it, people are catching them in the mouth with flies. Even though the fish are not feeding, if a fly gets near their mouth, they instinctively will bite. I have not fished there. Maybe this is force of feeding habit or maybe they are annoyed by the fly or are programmed to attack anything that might be a threat to their eggs.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 28, 2022, 10:57:44 AMI wonder if a long narrow trenching shovel/spade with about a 4" wide X 16" long blade would work?
Don't know about the shovel but the tube sort of traps the clam so it doesn't move through the mud and get away. They can go thru the sandy mud almost like a fish swimming in the water so you do have to be fast. They do have a long sharp edge along the two halves so I guess that's where they get their name.
Quote from: ljohnsaw on March 28, 2022, 10:57:44 AMI've only had one ocean-caught Sockeye that I got on a party boat in the sound south of Seattle.
They do troll for sockeye in Alaska before the fish head up into the freshwater rivers. They use big flashy lures and side planers. I only fished the rivers and was quite humbled. When I first got to Alaska I did not know you had to be there when the fish came thru. Depending where you are they may be there a week or so and then be gone.
I am not a huge fan of the way salmon taste. My daughter really like them. My favorite eating fish is a bluegill. Rainbow trout and Walleye are good too as well as catfish.
I have said before the best fish I ever ate was Tilipa cooked over a small charcoal fire that I bought off a street vendor in a small village in Cameroon in West Africa.
When I was about 10 years old, while staying with my Papa in Mulberry, we would often rig up the biggest surf rods we could find with big treble hooks (snatch hooks) and head for one of the many phosphate pits. With a heavy weight below the hooks, we could cast quite a long distance. We would work the rig like a big jig. When you hit a big tilapia (we called them Nile Perch), you knew you had a fight on your hands.
We would also spend quite a bit of time searching between the crossties on the tracks for fossils and riding slow moving freight trains.
If you can ever find a dock where people feed fish and tilapia are around, they are suckers for a 1/4 slice of bread pinched onto and floating a small hook. We used to catch them up to five or six pounds on ultralite spinning reels. Imagine catching a six-pound shellcracker on light tackle.
At night they can be gigged with homemade of store-bought gigs. When gigging them, we would cut a 1"x6" notch in the top side of a plastic drum. Snatching the gig through the notch would pull the fish off of the gig and it could fall into the ice in the bottom of the barrel.
Tilapia are not my favorite fish to eat but we have caught and cleaned a bunch of them that we sold to pay for our fishing habit for other species (back when we had time to fish frequently).
Cavey,
I never heard a Tilapia called a Nile Perch. We had Nile Perch in Africa and they looked more like a trout or such while a Tilapia looked more like a bluegill in shape. In Cameroon Nile Perch were locally referred to as El Capitan. Nile Perch can become very big fish. I don't know that Tilapia ever get over a few pounds.
Then again, in mid to southern Fla people call a Crappie a Speckled Perch or Specs. Where I grew up in N. Fla we used to call them a Chinquapin.
The Cajuns call crappie Sac-au-lait or, sack of milk. and sac-au-lait Coubion is wonderful stuff. Deep South Dish: Cajun Coubion - Courtbouillon (https://www.deepsouthdish.com/2010/03/cajun-courtbouillon.html#:~:text=Cajun%20Coubion%20-%20Courtbouillon%20A%20court%20bouillon%20is,generally%20fish%20is%20cooked.%20But%20that%27s%20the%20French.?msclkid=ca0af2a6af6011ecafbfc3671023a940)
Did you know isolated lakes and ponds with no inlet from other streams sometimes get stocked with fish from the eggs that stick to the feed of wading birds such as herons and ducks and such.
We visited a pair of twin lakes in a volcanic crater in Cameroon in West Africa many years ago. It was apparently spring fed with no other inlet or outlet but one of the lakes was filled with Tilapia. We were told the other lake, the one referred to as the male lake, supposedly had no fish. The lakes were separated by a narrow strip of land and they would even appear at different levels so there was no connection below to the Female lake. I always wondered if there really weren't fish in them both or if there was something in the water in the Male Lake that inhibited fish life or such.
Anyway, newly formed farm ponds and such that have never been stocked often have fish suddenly just appear in them apparently from the birds.
Caveman,
Do you know if the phosphate mines/borrow pits you mentioned in a previous post being full of big tilapia were stocked or do you think birds or such brought them in? I grew up fishing in big sand and gravel lakes left by the dredging/pumping out the sand and gravel and they were full of local fish but they flooded every year or so and the Escambia River stocked them.
I love fish, but the one fish that I do not care for and do not eat is tilapia.
Any time that fish appear in bodies of water that were thought to not have fish you have to consider that someone put them in there. There are many small lakes and ponds in New York that state fisheries people killed all the fish and then stocked it with trout. They put up signs telling people not to use fish as bait and to not put any fish in from other waters. Along comes someone who thinks he's doing a great thing and dumps bullheads in, dooming the trout. I have talked to people who admitted to doing this. I do think that the theory of wading birds bringing in eggs is plausable.
Sorry you feel that way and no doubt some fish are smuggled in by do-gooders or miscreants. My friends and I have on occasion discussed stocking trash fish such as gars or bowfin or such in neighborhood ponds or such but the lakes I saw in Africa were too hard to access for me to believe any tribesman smuggled them in on their back.
While the vast majority of the eggs might not survive the journey, just a few hatching in a lake with no predators, a nearly endless supply of food and cover, could and would be expected to rapidly increase.
I know on occasion birds will drop a fish they have been carrying and if was a gravid female that is another likely source for transplanting fish. I know I have seen herons and ospreys and such drop fish they were carrying.
If nothing else Occam's Razor applies.
Did you ever watch a wet dog shake the water out of his coat? He has a specific sequence he follows starting at his head and sort of rippling down his neck, shoulders, mid section, hips, then finally he shakes his tail vigorously to get rid of the water. It is pretty effective and reminds me of ringing out a wet towel where you start at one end and twist and push it to the other end.
Did you know (I've heard this but never witnessed it) that some animals will get in water to drive off fleas? I heard a story that fox or maybe coyotes will grab a cotton ball or something in their mouth and go swimming. As the fleas head to the cotton or whatever, the animal will release it to the water and crawl out out the water leaving the fleas to float way. Fact or fiction.... you decide :)
Troy,
My old mentor used to tell the tale that there in N. Fla he once saw a fox wade slowly deeper and deeper into a stream or pond. He said as it got to the point only the neck and head were out of the water you could start to see fleas climbing up and darkening the fur. Finally the fox had only his nose above the water and stuck his nose up to a stick and the fleas hopped off on to it then finally the fox dipped his head, I guess to rinse away any remaining fleas then waded out of the stream.
Sounds pretty similar to the tale you heard so maybe there is some basis in fact there.
I also heard swimming in salt water would cause chiggers/redbugs to leave. I got into a bunch in Dixie Count Fla so bad one time I'd have probably climbed into a 55 gallon drum of diesel and set it on fire if that would have gotten rid of them.
BTW - did you know that a chigger or redbug is naturally a parasite of reptiles like snakes and turtles and the chigger is an intermediate phase that will also get on warm bodied animals - including people.
Chiggers- did you know that fingernail polish and other such remedies are are useless? I read up on chiggers a few years ago and if I remember correctly, the chigger feeds and leaves relatively quickly. The red dot that itches so bad is a result of the bite and feeding, sort of like a mosquito bite. The red dot is not the chigger as is widely believed. Based on this, I'd be surprised if salt water would help much after the bite.
Here's a fact- when I was a kid, grandpa would sometimes take me to his 'farm' and we'd shoot and walk in the woods. Upon exiting the car he'd tie a strip of cloth around my sleeves or pants legs to keep the chiggers out. Soon as we got home, I'd be put in a bathtub with a little bleach. Seems the bleach would get the chiggers before they could actually do the boring and biting. I guess it worked to some degree as I'd get a bit or two but nothing overwhelming.
Did you know the old timers would take sulfur pills? They would also line up at artesian wells for sulfur water. The sulfur would exit with perspiration and help repel mosquitoes, ticks, and chiggers. I was able to find sulfur tablets at the pharmacy years ago but I doubt they are there anymore.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 31, 2022, 09:08:04 AMMy old mentor used to tell the tale that there in N. Fla he once saw a fox wade slowly deeper and deeper into a stream or pond. He said as it got to the point only the neck and head were out of the water you could start to see fleas climbing up and darkening the fur. Finally the fox had only his nose above the water and stuck his nose up to a stick and the fleas hopped off on to it then finally the fox dipped his head, I guess to rinse away any remaining fleas then waded out of the stream.
Your story sounds better than mine, and since he actually saw it, I'd believe it more than mine! 8)
Quote from: TroyC on March 31, 2022, 09:55:24 AM. . . guess it worked to some degree ass I'd get a bit or two . . .
Sometimes a typo make for the best punchline. 😂
Quote from: KEC on March 29, 2022, 11:42:13 AMI do think that the theory of wading birds bringing in eggs is plausable.
I'm pretty sure the birds transferring fish and other eggs is factual. I've read this from other sources.
Quote from: TroyC on March 31, 2022, 09:59:43 AM
Did you know the old timers would take sulfur pills? They would also line up at artesian wells for sulfur water. The sulfur would exit with perspiration and help repel mosquitoes, ticks, and chiggers. I was able to find sulfur tablets at the pharmacy years ago but I doubt they are there anymore.
I think it is back earlier in this thread about the sulfur. My grandfather spent most of his time in the woods in central Fla and he would dust sulfur in his shoes like foot powder and he said his skin absorbed enough to help keep the skeeters, ticks and redbugs away. He would also drip syrup into sulfur and roll it around to make a pill and swallow one every day or so for the same reason.
There was an artesian well in the middle of the community of Pollard Ala there in Escambia County Ala across the state line from where I was raised and it had a good bit of sulfur. I remember standing there at sunset fighting skeeters and the locals who drank from that well every day did not seem to notice any so I figure that it worked for them.
(Of course I always figured it was just because I was naturally so sweet anyway. ;D)
re: waterfowl bringing in fish eggs, etc...seems like accepted fact in my experience.
In my working life, we built lots of ponds, constructed wetlands, and stream restorations. Always amazing too to see how frogs seemed to magically appear more or less immediately after completion of project.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 31, 2022, 10:13:00 AMOf course I always figured it was just because I was naturally so sweet anyway. ;D
Well, that may attract honeybees and such, but mosquitoes, really? :D
Some birds are known to take an ant in their bill and preen their feathers with it. Theory is that the ant has formic acid and helps kill or repel parasites. As to animals going into water to get rid of fleas, I won't discount that. But beavers and mink get fleas. Understand that when the animal goes under water the fleas can take refuge in the layer of air trapped in the fur by the skin, which protects semi-aquatic animal from the cold water. I have watched birds sit in direct hot sunlight and spread their wings as if to expose themselves to the sun which is probably rough on fleas or mites. Reckon I'd do the same if it would help get rid of parasites, if I had them !
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 29, 2022, 09:19:18 AMCaveman, Do you know if the phosphate mines/borrow pits you mentioned in a previous post being full of big tilapia were stocked or do you think birds or such brought them in? I grew up fishing in big sand and gravel lakes left by the dredging/pumping out the sand and gravel and they were full of local fish but they flooded every year or so and the Escambia River stocked them.
I don't know if the talapia are stocked or not. They are commercially fished in a lot of local lakes and pits so it is possible that some were stocked. I remember old timers telling me that fish fell during heavy rainstorms but your theory of eggs being transported by birds seems more plausible. We have tons of ospreys around. I suppose some of them may occasionally drop live fish into other water bodies.
Quote from: KEC on March 31, 2022, 08:43:58 PMSome birds are known to take an ant in their bill and preen their feathers with it. Theory is that the ant has formic acid and helps kill or repel parasites. As to animals going into water to get rid of fleas, I won't discount that. But beavers and mink get fleas. Understand that when the animal goes under water the fleas can take refuge in the layer of air trapped in the fur by the skin, which protects semi-aquatic animal from the cold water. I have watched birds sit in direct hot sunlight and spread their wings as if to expose themselves to the sun which is probably rough on fleas or mites. Reckon I'd do the same if it would help get rid of parasites, if I had them !
Great info. I never thought about aquatic mammals like beavers, otters, mink, muskrats or nutria or such getting ticks or fleas. I never thought about it but just assumed the fleas drowned of couldn't hold their breath any more and turned loose and headed for the surface. :D
I had never heard of birds preening their feathers with an ant or that the formic acid killed parasites. I have seen movies where people in the jungle used ants as sutures. Seems like Rambo and others used them in some of their movies. Can't verify if it is true but sounds like the rumor must have come from somewhere so might be some truth there.
(I know my son put a pair of Anole - Southern Chameleons - on his younger sister as earrings. :D She survived but was duly traumatized. The lizards would readily open their mouth and clamp down on anything in their mouth but did not have teeth or enough bite power to really hurt anything.)
Anhingas and Cormorants will often be seen with their wings spread to dry their feathers as you describe. I don't think it has anything to do with parasites. I think they lack oil in their feathers which would prevent them from diving and staying under water any length of time and when they come to the surface they dry them in the breeze looking like a deodorant commercial The most I saw was in March several years back in the canals across the everglades.
Quote from: caveman on March 31, 2022, 10:41:41 PMI don't know if the talapia are stocked or not. They are commercially fished in a lot of local lakes and pits so it is possible that some were stocked. I remember old timers telling me that fish fell during heavy rainstorms but your theory of eggs being transported by birds seems more plausible. We have tons of ospreys around. I suppose some of them may occasionally drop live fish into other water bodies.
I'd heard about fish falling in severe rainstorms but never saw that. I did find small fish in my back yard at 212 Kitamae in Okinawa Japan on the morning of 29 July, 1978 while stationed there in the USMC. I lived out on the economy about 50' from the sea wall and at high tide the water would lap the bottom of the sea wall. My son was born just before midnight 27 July 1978, I had to go in to work the next day to get disaster rations distributed to the troops in lockdown as we had a typhoon coming. I finished about noon, went to see my wife at the Camp Kuwae Naval Hospital but before I saw our son they declared Typhoon Condition I Emergency and kicked all non-essential personnel, including new dads, out of the hospital. I went home and watched old John Wayne movies on AFRTS (Military Station) on my 9" B&W TV the rest of the night while the typhoon raged outside. I got up 29 July and found the fish in my yard but assumed they got too close to the surface and and blew over the wall.
I rode out another Typhoon in August (I think it was) 1986 on my next tour to Okinawa and remember afterwards the beaches up at Camp Schwab on the northern part of the the island where I was stationed were covered with banded sea snakes that had washed up and could not get back to the Pacific Ocean. We had to be careful as they were poisonous and some lived several days up there out of the water till dehydration finished them off.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 31, 2022, 11:26:52 PMI'd heard about fish falling in severe rainstorms but never saw that
It's thought that a waterspout forming under a thundercloud could suck up smaller fish from the water, and later deposit them miles away. "Raining fish" (or frogs) has been reported often enough that it seems a real thing.
Add in the birds carrying fish eggs, and the occasional flood temporarily connecting otherwise isolated bodies of water, there are multiple ways fish could colonise a new spot.
One interesting case is here in NZ. We have various small migratory fish called Galaxids that live in the local rivers and lakes. They generally migrate down the river mouths to spawn, and new hatched fty wash out to sea at the next king tide. Then the small "whitebait" swim back up the rivers to fresh water. Rinse and repeat, but because part of their life cycle is in the sea, you can see how they could colonise a new river or stream system.
But in the South Island slightly different species live in some landlocked lakes, and can't reach the sea. It's thought that in the past the lakes were connected to a river system, but over time they have been cut of by geological or glacier action. The fish trapped there changed their breeding pattern and continued to live in the lake, with the isolated population gradually evolving into a slightly different species.
There is also a species that seems to think water is optional. The Mudfish lives in swamps, often with only temporary water. If things get too dry it wriggles under a log and just waits for rain. As long as the soil it's hiding in stays damp, it can survive. So you can see how a fish like that could reach new spots.
Brown mudfish: NZ native fish (https://www.doc.govt.nz/nature/native-animals/freshwater-fish/mudfish/brown-mudfish/)
Ian,
Thanks for the info. I never thought about a waterspout but that would surely cause fish, frogs and misplaced boaters to come raining down in other places. :D
We have various fish that also migrate short distances. Our walking catfish which came from Asia is one of our most famous.
We have a bowfin fish that is commonly called a mudfish in central fla. Other places it is called a cottonfish, cypress bass, grinnel, dogfish, and choupique (Shoe Pick), etc. It is funny where some of the common names come from.
The lake I mentioned in Cameroon was never subject to flooding and had no other source in or out but still had Tilapia. I hardly believe they were introduced by people because the tribes in the area were too primitive and the distance to transport them would have been too far. I still think the wading birds is the most plausible explanation for them being there.
Re the birds using ants to preen, I don't know that it is believed to kill ants, maybe more likely to repel; I said in a recent post "kill or repel". Vultures and Anhingas are thought to spread their wings to the sun to dry off or warm up. Many birds fluff up to keep warm. I once watched a Great-crested Flycatcher sitting on a boardwalk with wings and tail spread in full hot sun on a hot day. I think it was most likely trying to make life miserable for parasites. Did you Know that in Northern Quebec or maybe Nunavit there are lakes that have landlocked cod ? I think that they are protected as they develope slowly and could be easily overfished. I'll try to add a photo soon of a Turkey Vulture fluffed up on a very cold day. Now tell me, is this not the most beautiful bird ever?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/50283/RSCN1088~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1648834800)
Yes, that is the most beautiful vulture I have ever seen. ::) :D
I have seen birds fluff up their feathers but never thought of just why they did it. I guess I'd have thought they would cool down more by doing so and would certainly dry off more and quicker.
I can't see how fluffing feathers or warming in the sun would repel or harass parasites. Seems like I remember the professor in my parasitology course stating when your are sick your parasites are sick. I don't know if it is a stretch to think if you're uncomfortable, your parasite is uncomfortable.
I know earlier in this thread we posted about vultures and eagles and other soaring birds often stay on their perches longer in the morning until the temperature rises and the winds become stronger to help them in flight. Our guide in southern Africa pointed this out to us on a game drive on Etosha Game Park in Namibia.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 01, 2022, 09:58:06 AMThe lake I mentioned in Cameroon was never subject to flooding and had no other source in or out but still had Tilapia. I hardly believe they were introduced by people because the tribes in the area were too primitive and the distance to transport them would have been too far. I still think the wading birds is the most plausible explanation for them being there.
Can't rule out birds / eggs of course, and I also wouldn't rule out people. NZ was first colonised by "stone age" technology. They introduced Kumara (a sweet potato) that's originally from South America. How did it get to NZ? In a canoe.
Just because no one remembers there being a flood, doesn't mean there hasn't been one thousands of years ago. Or rivers change course over time etc.
When birds fluff their feathers it traps more air (not moving air) and insulates them. Same as fiberglass traps air and prevents convection cooling. Same thing when you first take a blanket out of the clothes dryer and the fibers are fluffed up, blanket feels warmer. Not just because the dryer heats it up.
Ian,
Yeah I don't know when the lake was formed but it is in a volcanic crater with no stream coming in or out. It, or I should say they as there are 2 of them, appear to be spring fed but for all I know it could be an underground river but there does not seem to be any current as I remember. What was it they said on Jurassic Park "Life finds a way." ;)
I know I touched on this in an earlier post but did you know one of the hardest of the African Big Five to spot is the leopard? He is the smallest of the big 5 and well camouflaged with his spots to break up his outline. The best way to spot a leopard is to watch likely looking trees as the leopard is an ambush predator and likes to rest well above ground on large limbs over game trails. The most likely tell-tale is his tail. You look for it like a short, thick rope hanging from large limbs parallel to the ground. Like all cats, the leopard likes to twitch his so the movement is the first indication you will normally see.
Did you know, when a leopard, or for that matter, a bear is chasing you, you don't have to run fast, you just have to run faster than your sister?
Yes and you carry a dive knife for protection from sharks - if an aggressive shark shows up you pull out your dive knife and stab your dive buddy in the leg and swim away while the shark is distracted eating him.
Did you know that bamboo can explode? It sounds pretty obvious but if you've ever gone camping with a real city slicker you can tell them how good bamboo or switch cane is for kindling and firewood and when he puts a load on the fire and it gets hot the air and any water in the individual cells will expand and eventually blow up.
If you tell the same city slicker he can heat beans in the can, be sure to remind him to open the can at least part way or your whole camping party can be wearing hot beans, if not worse. ::)
Did you know if you suddenly find a bird nest being built on your front porch, in a plastic bag hanging on a nail in your shed, in a flower pot, old hard hat or even in your laundry hanging on the line and you live east of the Mississippi and south of New England, you probably have a little Carolina Wren in residence. These little brown birds seem to have very little fear of people and live right there with you and will startle you when you reach in a feed sack or tool box to get something and have them fly off their nest and up your arm.
I had a neighbor who kept finding sticks in her jean pockets hanging on the clothes line where one was trying to build. We found one this week building in the open dog food sack on the front porch. I had one last year who built one in a feed sack full of hay strings in my barn. One nested in my old hard hat on a shelf on the front porch then in a flower vase next to it.
They visit me in my deer blinds a lot too. I've had them come land on my boot top, the bill of my cap, on the window ledge of my deer blinds and once even on my arrow while bow hunting.
According to my range map I consulted they are smart enough to stay out of northern New York but that could be suspect.
A pair nested under the roof of my front porch a few years ago. They are around here, but not in great numbers.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/50283/RSCN1662.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1588735264)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/50283/RSCN1662.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1588735264)
I was working outside once, stopped to take a break for lunch and hung my nail /tool bag on a 4 ft step ladder.
A wren had a nest nearby.
After my lunch, I go out, and the wren was super agitated as I went to get my tool belt. I leaned on the ladder for a bit to watch, then realized that I wasn't the problem.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12217/IMG_20150612_115810_063.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1649114708)
If it is there, I don't see it.
Not long after we moved here an an old USMC couple of friends came by to visit and they gave us a hanging plant as a housewarming gift. We drilled a little hook into the porch framing and hung the plant and stepped back to see how it looked. Before the plant ever stopped swinging a wren came and brought the first stick and frantically started building the nest. She had it finished by the next day and eggs in it by the next. She had to have been sitting out there watching us hang it. While she was incubating the eggs we'd water the plant and she would sit there on the nest while we poured water into the peat moss 3-4 inches behind her.
Quote from: beenthere on April 04, 2022, 07:47:15 PM
If it is there, I don't see it.
Looks like a black snake.
Quote from: WDH on April 04, 2022, 09:36:46 PM
Quote from: beenthere on April 04, 2022, 07:47:15 PM
If it is there, I don't see it.
Looks like a black snake.
When he/she stuck its head out at me, I about filled up my drawers.
If you come down here, your snake awareness needs to be high. If not, it soon will be :) :).
Since Dan brought up the topic of them, Did you know snakes unhinge their jaws to swallow large prey? This allows the skin to stretch his mouth very, very wide. They start at the head of their prey whether it be a rat, squirrel, deer, alligator, or another snake and basically crawl around their meal slowly swallowing and pulling it down inch by inch. I think I have seen old videos of the snake unhinging and rehinging his jaws and he looked like a passenger on an airplane shifting his jaw from side to side to equalize the pressure in his body as the plane rises or descends. I had never given it much thought but when you consider it, it is an amazing trait.
What was it they used to tell troops going to Viet Nam? "There are 100 kinds of snake in Viet Nam. Of them 99 are poisonous and the other one just swallows you whole." ::)
Did you know a Gila monster is one of a few venomous lizards? Apparently the venom is used mostly for defense rather than hunting or immobilizing prey. The venom is in the saliva and is "injected" by a chewing bite. There was no recorded fatalities of humans from any Gila Monster bite that I could find.
I don't figure that I would let one chew on me for very long :).
Ray mentioned in another thread that it was nice to hear the birds singing.
Did you know that Gonadal Recrudescence is the reason they are singing? The males get hormoned up and sing not because they are happy but to announce their presence to the girls and to let the other males know that, "This is my territory and keep your feathered butt out!!"
I had never head of Godadal Recrudescence and am a little reluctant to open up an inquiry on it so I will accept it as gospel and when a Yankee Brown tweety bird lights on my new composting toilet and starts singing, I will recognize he is saying "Hey ladies, I found a new party pad. Come on down and let's boogey. And BTW (birds like to use abbreviations like that) guys, keep your northern feathered, grit hating butts away from my place!"
Did you know that meat eating lizards often have bacteria in their mouths that make bites from them very serious and in some cases is used to help subdue their prey. If you get bit by an alligator or crocodile the rotting fish and meat they have been eating is likely going to give you a serious infection.
I watched a special where a Komodo dragon ambushed and bit a big buffalo in the hind leg. The bite itself was not incapacitating but it immediately started infecting the leg. The dragon followed his trail tasting the molecules with his long forked tongue for several days. The buffalo got weaker and weaker and finally collapsed, the dragon and several of his friends who had joined the chase found him and ate him.
Gonadal Recrudescence. Dr. Ernie Provost taught us that back in 1975 in the mandatory Wildlife Biology Class that we Timber Management people had to take in Forestry School at the University of Georgia.
Apparently that was not mandatory material at Auburn in 1975. That is all that I have to say about that. But, I am empathetic and considerate and hope that a Komodo Dragon never bites you in the leg.
Danny,
I am sure Dr. Dusi covered that in his Ornithology class at AU but I remember more about being careful when reaching into a blue heron nest to count the eggs at Lake Eufala area not to fall off your ladder when you encountered a scaly Mr. No-shoulders. I also learned birds have a very weak vascular system due to thin veins to keep their overall weight down and when trapping and banding songbirds, if you encountered unwanted and pesky Blue Jays (First cousins to a crow), if you gave his thoracic cavity a good squeeze just before you released him, he would fly off, light on a distant limb then fall off dead from a heart attack. This was handy when you had busy-body UGA neighbors who were PETA members watching your every move.
While we had lots of botany classes in common I am sure with the forestry guys the only Forestry Class I had to take was Dr. DeBruner's Forest Fire Control And Use class. It was a very useful tool for us wildlife management students who did a lot of controlled burns for management of quail and such. (Besides it was nice to have an easy Forestry type course to pull up your GPA. ;))
Now you got me wondering if I haven't maybe gone through recrudescence a couple times.
Did you know what the sadist in hell said when the masochist in hell asked the sadist to please torture him?
"No"
Did you know that when an alligator or crocodile bites into a large prey they often go into a death roll to drown their prey? They roll over and over and in some cases they will twist a limb off their prey in the process. If you happen to get bit by an alligator and have the presence of mind to do it hold on tight and roll with the gator in hopes you can get free before he twists your arm or leg off. Of course it is kind of hard to think of things like that under such conditions. (It is easy to plan what you'd do under such emergency conditions but kind of hard to remember those plans when your life is actually at stake.)
Did you know a cheetah uses his long tail as a rudder when he is chasing his prey? It helps give him stability to make sharp turns and such as his prey tries to duck and dodge and elude him. Without a tail the cheetah would be off balance and would likely fall over or have to make a much wider circle when trying to turn so quickly to make its stereotypical "knockdown" blow of prey.
Did you know when burning a brush pile one of the handiest tools you can have is a leaf blower? To have a fire the fire triangle conditions (Heat - Fuel- Oxygen) must all be present. To put out a fire remove one leg of the triangle and it goes out. A leaf blower is great for adding O2 and burns the pile lots faster than without it.
I have seen where a crew was clearing a treed area and they dug a trench and pushed the trees into it. They had the equivalent of a giant leaf blower with a pipe to blow the air under the fire. They had one very hot fire. The leaf blower sounds like a great tool. Right now, New York has their annual ban on outdoor brush burning; runs from mid-March to mid-May. When there's a lot of dead debris from last year, people who get a little careless have fires that get out of control. Once the new growth vegetation comes in the risk goes down.
My son said when he was in the WV National Guard and assigned firefighting duties here in WV one year in November they used leaf blowers to create fire lanes. We used fire rakes to scrape out to bare soil but it makes sense a powerful leaf blower would work just about as well and much faster.
We're in our no-burn season till 31 May when we can only burn after 5:00 pm and the fire has to be out by 7:00 am.
Yeah, for large open brush burns a leaf blower is nice. I like to maintain a contained burn that runs while I am doing other things like splitting. SO I tried a smaller blower that works just fine.
How to reduce the smoke from a fire and get a good and effective burn - YouTube (https://youtu.be/d7EHzqw6_Wk)
For wildland firefighting we used blowers in the right conditions: creeping fires, low wind, earlier stages. You can at the very least create a quick cleared area so the grubbing crews coming behind you can get into the ground easier. You can also blow the already ignited materials INTO the fire leaving bare ground unburned (until it gets into the root structures). This is a common practice in Eastern fires where we have higher humidity and therefore a lot of 'creeping fires', that is, fires that travel along the ground brush and take some effort to engage and burn full trees. When the fires get more aggressive and they start to involve trees, move fast and burn higher, this is not so effective. But for creating fire breaks ahead of the fire, a leaf blower, especially a big one can make a good first pass in front of following crews.
Since we're talking fires did you know controlled burning is used to reduce the amount of flammable debris readily available on the ground and to reset the seral stage to an earlier one? This keeps the property covered more in species like grass and briers and such rather than brush, then species like pines and eventually hardwoods, or at least that is the normal sequence in the southern USA. Early seral stages are good for animals like quail, rabbits, deer and even turkeys and such as long as there is enough periodic ground cover for them to nest and hide from predators. Food/Energy from the plants is much more readily available to wildlife in the form of seeds, berries and tender browse and such than it would be if tied up in mature trees. Plowing and such do much the same thing but are not practical or cost effective in wooded areas.
The advantage to controlled burns is the owner can pick a time when the weather conditions are better to generate a slow ground burn that can be managed rather than an out of control crown fire.
Military bases where they do a lot of training on the ground must burn frequently because part/much of their training and ordnance used involves a higher risk to starting fires and they want to be sure the debris has already been burned/reduced so out of control fires are prevented.
Under perfect conditions fire breaks are plowed taking advantage of roads and streams and such and backfires set along them increase the width of the safety zones then fires are set to use very slow wind to push the fire to the next fire break. Ideally you would probably prefer to just use a slow back fire from one break to the next but realistically this usually takes too long to complete so a slow head fire is faster to complete the task.
Did you know "Pronging" is when antelope bounce around with their feet together. It is popular with our pronghorn antelope in the western USA but various African antelope will also do it when they are feeling happy, safe and contended. It is not their top speed and while it was fun to watch a Springbok or Gemsbok or such happily bouncing across the plain when there was a hungry lion or cheetah around you'd see them running flat out and all four feet would be hitting the ground at different times. I have not been around our American pronghorns enough to see how they run when scared but I suspect they also have another, faster speed they also use.
Aren't our pronghorns about the 2nd fastest animal on the planet (not counting humans in sports cars in Atlanta :))?
Quote from: WDH on April 12, 2022, 02:03:34 PM
Aren't our pronghorns about the 2nd fastest animal on the planet (not counting humans in sports cars in Atlanta :))?
I think that's correct for land animals. Pronghorns and African Springboks can both sprint about 50 mph. That explains why cheetah have to be even quicker. :D
But the Sailfish can reach ~68 mph
Several years ago, I took two of my uncles offshore fishing for snapper and grouper. It was an unusually calm and slow fishing day. We ended up about 35 miles WSW of Egmont Key in the Gulf in 133' of water. The water was cobalt blue and did not even have a ripple. Probably 50' behind the transom a big, purple form came into view. I immediately dipped a couple of bait nets full of greenbacks, gave them a squeeze to cripple them a bit and hurled them behind the boat. The sailfish began picking them off like they made him angry.
I then hooked one on a 5/0 hook attached to a spinning reel full of 20 lb test neon green line with a short Bimini twist leader. The sailfish ate it almost immediately and after it realized it was hooked, did its best to go to Texas, Belize or somewhere other than where we were. This was the first sailfish that I'd hooked, and it greyhounded across the calm Gulf for several hundreds of yards until the Penn reel's drag wore him down.
Since we are talking about fire ants over in the food section (We do tend to wander around here a bit) I figured I'd post a trick I learned to get rid of them from my old mentor a couple hundred years ago.
Did you know if you have several big fire ant beds close together you can mix them and they will kill each other? Use a long handle sharp pointed shovel if available. Dig in and grab a big spade full of nest full of ants off of bed #1 and throw it on bed #2. Next grab a big load from bed #2 and throw it on bed #1. I guess each bed has its own pheromone smell like a bee hive does. The ants each start defending their bed from the "foreign invaders" and they kill each other. This in environmentally friendly, pretty much free and highly effective. If you come back and check a few days later you will normally find the first two beds are deserted/dead. You may find a new small bed starting nearby where the survivors are starting over.
One word of caution - do not hold on to the shovel long after you dig up that first scoop because you can bet a plate full of hot buttered grits there is going to be some very angry ants climbing up looking for you!
Did you know that an ox-picker bird makes its living eating ticks and flies and such off of large wild African animals including rhinos, Cape Buffalo, elephants, giraffes, etc. It is fun to watch the small robin sized or smaller birds walking along the backbone or climbing around the head and neck of the animal pecking here and there as it finds a juicy tick. This symbiotic relationship between the birds and the animals works very well to the benefit of both species.
We watched one such bird walking along a huge Cape Buffalo bull in South Africa one time and he walked down the head and drank a beak full of buffalo snot from its nose.
I remember watching my FIL's cows wade out belly deep in his small farm pond. That kept the flies off their belly and the bluegills were boiling and jumping completely out of the water catching flies and such. I watched one large bluegill jump completely over a cows back and nabbed a big horsefly on the way.
Did you know that oxpeckers aren't always doing the big animals a favor? They will peck at wounds and drink blood and aggravate the wound so it doesn't heal as soon as it would if the oxpeckers left it alone.
Did you know that especially in the Spring when he is feeling his oats a turkey gobbler will sometimes gobble at the full moon almost all night long? I guess it is like some dogs that bark at it.
Since Spring turkey season opens here in WV Monday (Its actually youth day today) I'll continue with the turkey theme. Did you know a typical way to locate a turkey is to go to likely roosting areas before daylight and shock him into giving away his location? Typical methods include hooting like an owl which will make every fired up gobbler in the area gobble. And once one gobbles the others in hearing will often answer and the whole woods can be shaking from them. Other sounds that will make a turkey gobble is a crow call, coyote call, sometimes even a cow mooing, honking a car horn or slamming a door will set them off.
I have been on the local COE lake fishing and had a thunderstorm come up on me. Every time it would thunder I'd hear a dozen or more turkeys gobble. It seemed like there was one up every holler.
We had a Catholic retreat about a mile from my home and they would ring a bell at 6:00 A.M. every morning and that would fire them off. I would watch the time and be quiet waiting to locate them. I've heard banging a tuning fork will do the same thing.
Yelping like a hen will usually do the trick but be careful because he may also be heading your way and may catch you unawares or before you can get set up. Turkeys prefer to come to a call uphill rather than down the slope. Calling a gobbler away from a bunch of hens is much harder than having him come when he is alone or just hanging out with a bunch of his hairy-legged hardtails.
Once located the hunter tries to set up close and with cover and start yelping like a frustrated hen. When done right and the turkey is in the right mood he will often fly right off the roost and land in easy shotgun range. Setting up a few decoys helps distract the gobbler and helps get them in range. Fired up gobblers have been known to attack a rubber Jake (Young gobbler) decoy or sexually assault fake hens, Turkeys are very alert so you must be very careful not to let them spot you.
It is also a good idea to set up with a large tree at your back in case there are Greenhorn (Sorry Tom) hunters in the area who try to stalk and shoot at the sound of any turkey they hear.
Turkey populations in my area collapsed a few years ago. The Ga Legislature recently passed a law allowing hunting of possums and raccoons year round in an attempt to reduce predatory populations. I am sure the wild hogs on my property pillaged and destroyed many turkey nests. We had one large flock of about 20 hens pus a good number of gobblers, just 5 years ago on the 115 acres here on the homeplace. Now there are none.
It is also postulated that the use of chicken manure on local farm field has introduced poultry diseases like black head disease that has infected the local wild turkey populations. Another factor here has to be development and loss of habitat from people building houses, new subdivisions, and overall human growth.
Although I never hunted them, I miss the turkeys.
Our turkey almost totally collapsed in 1989 after a gradual population buildup that boggled the mind. I stopped counting at 100 while looking at a flock during deer season. Opening day 1990, nothing....and I mean nothing. I kept getting up early and going but still nothing.
It took probably 10 years for the population to recover and by then I had simply quit turkey hunting and I have not hunted since. We have now recovered and have a normal population that is sustaining the hunting season with plenty of two year old birds being passed over for future year's hunting. The property that I own and lease would probably be described a perfect turkey habitat with about 400+ acres of mature hardwood, some pine plantation, and mixed with open areas, edges and woodland roads & trails. I am hopeful that we can retain/maintain our turkey as well as our deer population.
I would bet that in the area where you have feral hogs they are a much bigger threat to the wild turkey, and any other ground nesting bird and even baby rabbits in the nests, than foxes, coon, coyotes or possums.
Yes, spreading chicken fertilize and sawdust/chips from chicken houses is a high risk idea for wild turkeys.
We have large flocks (rafters) of turkeys nearby. Easy to count 40 - 50 together in one field and over the hill in the valley count another 40 - 50.
Toms are getting excited as it is the season. Whole lotta struttin goin on.
BT,
This is the first time I ever heard a flock of turkeys called a rafter. I wonder if that is more of a northern thing? ;)
In addition to all those mentioned, I've had turkeys respond to the "squeak" of a clipboard cover while cruising timber.
Their numbers appear to be down here again this year, so I didn't apply for a permit but continue to be a member of the NWTF and attended their spring banquet and fund raiser.
Ron,
If you run into Dr. James Earl Kennamer at any of your NWTF functions tell him I said Hi. He was one of my Wildlife Professors while I was at AU. Get him to tell you about trying to raise a record size Copperhead when he was a grad student at Mississippi and scaring the janitor so bad he refused to clean the biology dept. :D
In New York turkey numbers have had their ups and downs. Suspect factors include West Nile Virus, coyotes, our expanding fisher population and rainy cold weather during the nesting season.
Quote from: Ron Scott on April 17, 2022, 06:38:31 PM
In addition to all those mentioned, I've had turkeys respond to the "squeak" of a clipboard cover while cruising timber.
Their numbers appear to be down here again this year, so I didn't apply for a permit but continue to be a member of the NWTF and attended their spring banquet and fund raiser.
I think turkeys will respond to any kind of a "quick-unexpected" noise, such as a car door slam, a sneeze, and so on!
My son and his buddy went turkey hunting one day and came back near noon. I asked where the turkey was and they said "He'd have come if he could have." They got on a gobbler right off the bat and he'd answer every time they yelped but he would not come. He'd even gobble every time the farmers cows mooed. Finally they started slipping closer and he kept replying but not coming. Finally they got sight of him - in a farmer's pen. ::)
My granddaughter got spoiled. last year on her first youth hunt my son called in a large tom and she shot it. Yesterday she had a flock with several jakes and she wouldnt shoot.
Good for her. Jakes are next years toms and are illegal to kill in Mississippi, except maybe youth season. We always try to spare the 7"-8" bearded toms with ½" spurs because they are typically two year olds. Kinda like shooting a 1½ year old legal buck deer. Let them grow at least another year.
MM
i.e. Let 'em toughen up some. :D :D
I like both on the more tender side.
Lynn,
I'm with BT on this one. I'm a meat hunter and never want to shoot what I am not going to eat (Coyotes and coons/possums on my front porch stealing Sampson's food are the only exceptions).
Jakes are legal here in WV and I will readily take one and am happier with a jake than a longbeard. He tastes better and then I continue to get to watch the longbeard strutting and putting on a show for me and his lady friends. The entire turkey flock benefits as the big old gobbler readily spreads much more pollen amongst the hens and is more likely to survive to do so again next year.
Looks like the turkeys got together and did a rain dance last night to help protect them on opening day and it is working well. Looks like it will be Wednesday before I might go harass one. Our turkeys have been very effective in eluding me in very creative ways for many years and I am mostly used to the embarrassment.
While driving in western Maine yesterday, came across a Tom standing on the yellow line in the middle of the road, gobbling at every car that went by (one in front of us and two or so behind us) which had slowed to maybe 15-20mph. On the side of the road in the ditch I spotted a hen. Perhaps there were more. I'm guessing if any of us had stopped it would have attacked our vehicles.
Quote from: beenthere on April 17, 2022, 11:08:53 PMI like both on the more tender side.
Couldn't if we wanted to. Mississippi's game laws prevent shooting jakes and bucks with less than certain antler beam lengths and spread (generally 1½ year old) depending upon the region/location.
On the other hand, in WI only can shoot one buck a year.. may be different in MS. ;)
Yeah in parts of the south the limits are real liberal. Part of SC had no limit when I was there and season started 15 August. Not sure if that is the same now. In Ala limit was one per day.
Here in WV it is 3 bucks per year but you do have to use a combination of bow/crossbow, rifle and black powder. Two per weapon type is the limit and you have to buy extra stamp before that type season starts. We can also kill similar number of antlerless defined as doe or antlers less than 3". I normally take 2-3 per year so I suspect I really am not taking more than we end up raising on my property each year.
Turkeys are 2 per year including Fall (When we have a Fall season) and Spring.
Its a juggling act trying to keep the herd/flock (Rafter) healthy and still give the residents a chance to harvest game.
We even have 4 days of antlerless season where seniors or kids 8-14 accompanied with a licensed hunter, can kill a deer each day that does not count against their limit. Other areas have urban hunts with bow or crossbow in urban areas and these deer don't count against limits.
And of course there are damage tags you can get for farmers and such who prove they need them which even allows night hunting till 10:00pm in special cases.
Here 1 buck with gun 1 with bow or crossbow. seperate license for bow or crossbow. One doe tag with each license. Doe tags can be used with any weapon. Many areas extra doe tags can be purchased.
Our general deer bag limit is 3 bucks and 5 does per year. There are some variations in the bag limit and antler restrictions in some deer management units, youth, private vs public land, and also method of kill.
Turkeys are 3 per year, Spring only.
Quote from: beenthere on April 18, 2022, 06:22:54 PM
On the other hand, in WI only can shoot one buck a year.. may be different in MS. ;)
That's why you guys have some big ones there
We have no Winter kill, so our bag limits are geared toward population control.
We once had a 'buck-a-day' limit but it had to be changed because it was deemed (by some) that we had an unlimited deer herd. We do not have deer harvest tags so there is really no control over how many deer any individual actually takes.
We do have turkey tags and a requirement that each turkey harvested must be reported that day. Our game officers watch fb, etc. and try very hard to enforce the turkey laws.
In Central Georgia the limits are very (too) generous, 2 bucks and 10 does per license. One lesser buck and one trophy, or two trophy bucks as defined by points per side. My feeling is that if you have 10,000 acres and one hunter, that is great! However, a guy can have 10 acres, feed and pull deer from all his neighbors, he and his family can basically wipe out a deer population in short time.
I generally take a deer or two, depending on how much meat I want to share. My neighbor and his kids down the road hunt an equal acreage and they take at least 10-15 deer. Since Georgia has a 'call it in and report it' system, many of those harvest go unreported. Personally, I think 12 deer per year is much too generous and leads to a lot of deer being taken that should be let to grow another couple years. How much venison can you eat in a year?
I don't know how much venison you can eat in a year. Lots of people here give deer to friends and neighbors who can't hunt and they have a deer for the hungry program where donated deer are processed into burger and given to needy families.
My BIL in Alaska was part of a group who used to butcher road killed moose and caribou and such and had a similar program to distribute the meat.
He was stationed on a remote outpost several years with the FAA and they got caribou tags based on family size. He said most folks waited till the herds migrated across the runway and shot them then rather than wasting time chasing them out in the bush. They had a canning plant there and meat and salmon and such were actually canned like buying canned salmon in tins in the stores.
We can a little deer meat every year or so in jars and it keeps good. It makes great BBQ or hash. I just pack the raw trimmings into pint jars and cook on 15 lbs pressure 75 minutes and that makes plenty for a meal for us. I've thought about and may try using 1/2 pint jars and wish I could find good spice mix to make canned, corned venison during the canning process. I corn and freeze but never canned any. I might should just take my corned fresh venison, cut it up and can it. I'm afraid it would cook all to pieces during canning as corned deer is real tender.
Man is an unnatural hunter. All other predators take the sick, weak, young and old animals first while we try to kill the biggest gobbler or buck or bull in the herd.
In Africa this is not such a problem as the big bull antelopes and mature lions and such hunters want are typically already past their prime and can no longer maintain a harem of females so are not part of the breeding population anyway and removing them has little effect on the following years populations. Meat killed by trophy hunters is generally used by the local villagers from which the safari/hunting staff typically originate anyway. Hunting is a big business and provides a lot of income to the areas and many have conservatives where they work together to preserve and protect the game and agree on harvest and share the income and meat from such decisions.
Hunters licenses here in the USA are used to buy and protect land and the hunters have done more to protect and preserve animals than any other group out there.
Did you know fish and game are such an important part of many Alaskans diet that the state allows proxy hunting and fishing? An elderly or incapacitated resident can buy a hunting and fishing license and appoint a friend to use it for them to go kill game or catch fish in their name. The hunter has to complete some forms recording the kill or catch which I assume gets turned in to the state.
Several years ago we were vacationing in Alaska and visited a Falls on the Russian River. The Salmon were running and one man there had a long dip net and was proxy fishing for a friend. I talked with him a good while and watched him catching, stringing and recording his catch. I think I grabbed the stringer for him one time and some tree hugger threatened to turn me in for fishing without a license. She was mad because the guy was dip netting which she did not agree with but was a legal method of fishing in Alaska and she could not stop him.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 20, 2022, 09:38:21 AMSeveral years ago we were vacationing in Alaska and visited a Falls on the Russian River.
I fished the salmon run on the Russian River in 2013. It was so crowded during the day that I would wait until about 10 pm to walk to the confluence with the Kenai. There was a nice sandbar there that you could wade to. Bears were quite plentiful so you had to be cautious. The sun set about 4 AM then came right back up. Didn't need a flashlight to tie a fly on even at 4AM.
Troy,
My wife and daughter had been to that spot with the falls a couple years before and there were plenty of bears catching salmon there. My daughter climbed down and got some real good pictures of some 200 lb cubs learning to fish. Mama bear was not happy and gave her the real stink-eye but nothing more. My BIL who lives up there chastised her most severe when he saw the pictures and realized how close she had been.
Most of the tourists we saw carried bear spray. The locals all carried .44 -.50 caliber pistols or shotguns with slugs. The guy doing the dip netting had brought along a nice little wagon to pull the heavy load of fish back down the trail.
Also met one of my neighbor's old friend over on the Copper River. He had a fishwheel and could subsistence fish. We got a few Copper River salmon and he showed me how he smoked them in an old oven converted into a smoker left over from the days of the Alaskan Highway construction. I really like making fish dip with the smoked salmon. I canned several cases of smoked salmon on the trip.
Did you know the Copper River is so milky the salmon's eyes are almost useless in the river? The Copper River salmon in Alaska are highly prized.
WV, I did not do the falls hike, just fished along the campground walks. A friend I met in Homer loaned me his .357 and a holster. I had a shotgun to carry but that was rather bulky while fly fishing. The friend said "Don't shoot the bears, just use the gun to scare them if you have to. If you shoot a bear you'll really get in trouble unless you are torn up pretty good". He said they have attacks occasionally in the parking lots there. I took his advice, did not have to shoot anything. There were bears alongside the river catching carcasses from the 'fillet and release' people. It is customary to throw your carcasses back in the river after cleaning. One fellow near me decided to wade the river, going right at a bear. He was acting like his flyrod would protect him. Got the video. Next day the bear people were looking for him. I showed them the video, they were not impressed.
I remember hearing about the Copper River but no details. I saw many of those Glacial Rivers they were completely gray and looked like run-off from a greywater operation such as a laundry. They said there were fish in them but I don't see how they could see or smell anything in that water. I remember the one you had to walk across to McCarthy was like that. I don't know if that was the Copper River as McCarthy was an old copper mine site.
On the bears my BIL said many residents bought a bear stamp but never intended to hunt them. I think a permit cost $10 for a resident. If they had one and killed a bear in self defense they could keep it but if they did not have a stamp they had to turn it in to the state. They bought one just for insurance.
The fishwheel I saw was in Chitina. We made about half of the drive to McCarthy but turned back due to the gravel road and lack of time. Don't know how those fish navigate in that milky water, guess they just keep heading upstream. Did see some locals there using the huge dip nets.
I think most of the roads we traveled in Alaska were gravel. The road to McCarthy was an old railroad bed IIRC.
I remember Avis and Hertz said their cars could not be driven off the paved roads so my daughter found an Israeli used car dealer there in Anchorage who rented cars. If it was on the lot and not sold it was for rent. I picked out a beat up old Dodge Durango with a cracked windshield and rented it so there would be no big issues of nicks and dings when we returned it. It worked fine and the dealer never batted an eye when we brought it back. I think they should only sell used former military vehicles in Alaska. :D
Did you know the different ways plants spread their seeds? There are air borne seeds with wings such as maple, pine and tulip poplar. Many seeds are spread by animals which eat them, digest the outer part and drop the seeds under their favorite spots like fence lines, power lines and such. Autumn olive, blackberries and others fall in this category. Squirrels collect and bury acorns, grapes, walnuts, beech, etc. for future meals then get killed or never return for them. I believe it is the ivory palm that is eaten by elephants and planted in the dung. The digestive actions are sometimes required to make such seeds germinate. Some plants deposit sticky/hairy seeds on animals such as beggar lice/tick or cockleburs which get hung in their coats or tails and get distributed elsewhere. (In fact the velcro system was pattered after beggar tick IIRC.) Prickly pear are a type of cactus with spines that stick in animals and the entire pad breaks off and grows wherever the animal drops it. Some seeds are explosive such as "touch ne not" which throw seeds when touched. We encountered a tree in Central African Republic with big bean (Like the size of an adult foot) and when ripe they exploded with a loud crack and scattered seed for several meters under the tree. Water carries many seeds to new locations. Mayhaws are a type of wild apple that often drop their fruit in the water. Walnuts, sycamore and other trees typically are found around water or in run-offs from water courses.
These are just samples and there are many other methods I have not touched on here.
Then there are the "stranded" species, like Kentucky coffee tree, whose big tough seed pods could only be eaten (and the hard seeds pooped back out) by the mastodon.
Dodo birds used to eat some kind of hard tree seeds and their gizzard would thin the shell and allow it to germinate. When the Dodo was hunted to extinction the tree could no longer regenerate. Someone fiqured this out and fed seeds from that tree to, I think, turkeys and the seeds germinated.
I meant to mention tomatoes too. My housemate in Saudi ran the waste treatment plant on our project and brought some of the fully treated sludge home to fertilize his flowers. It had been completely treated and dried, had no odor, and was a gravel sized grey chunky material. He had hundreds of tomatoes come up among his flowers from it.
Did you know many squirrels and woodchucks get killed on the roads this time of year while they are licking the salt off the roads?
Did you know that some sea turtles never leave the ocean except for the females to lay their eggs? The males never leave the water their entire lives. The green sea turtle that nests in the Galapagos islands is one example. The baby turtles hatch at night and make their way to the ocean in the dark to avoid predators.
Did you know for an animal to have the name Galapagos as part of its name it cannot exist anywhere else? I remember a Galapagos hawk there that was only found on the Galapagos Islands. Gulls and pelicans and such that migrate between the islands and the mainland and such cannot share the name.
I see Moosehunter mooseherder (Okay - is that better :D) posted a nice video of otters eating tilapia today. Did you know otters make a sound like birds chirping? I remember fishing with my BIL in a small river in SC near Savannah Ga and we kept hearing what we thought were ducks chirping to each other. When we got closer we found a family of otters playing and a mud slide on the bank where they would climb up and slide on their bellies in the mud into the river. Another time here in WV my wife and I were fishing with the two oldest GDs and a family of 2 adults and 2 curious young ones swam down the river to us playing and chirping. The young ones would rise up over half their length in the water and look at us then submerge and come up somewhere else for another look. We followed them for 1/4 mile or so watching and taking pictures. They finally disappeared under a washed out bank somewhere along the river.
my wife loves Otters. she has one named Pretzel (stuffed) and now she wants to see the pictures, video if you have it. 8) :) :) :)
Doc,
Show her Mooseherder's sister thread here then. She should enjoy that.
When I was in my late teens I killed an otter while duck hunting in N. Fla. I was parked in my boat up in some flooded willows and he swam up and I thought he was a beaver and I shot him with a load of #4 duck shot. My buddy wanted any beaver we could kill. When I saw him thrash and saw the tail I realized it was an otter. I probably would not have killed him if I'd realized it was an otter.
I skinned it and got the musk sprayed all over the side of my face when I pulled the hide at the wrong time and place. When I got done puking and scrubbed as much off as I could I resumed skinning it. It seemed like every critter in the woods wanted to get friendly with me for the next couple of weeks after that. I finally gave the hide to my old mentor and he used it to put a new hide bottom seat in an old straight backed kitchen chair he had.
I had posted this picture last fall.
I had never seen otters in the wild until a few years ago, they are fun to watch.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/_DSC0393.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1634067821)
They are amazingly graceful in the water if you get to see them in zoo or such with an underwater view but they have an awkward gait when running on land. I saw a family of them on land last year one night while checking my catfish lines. I don't know why they had left the lake.
What a treat hilltop
Did you know that a river otter has a rounded head and face similar to a cat rather than an elongated snout more typical of a dog or fox or such? I assume this helps him catch and eat fish which is his primary diet.
Did you know an armadillo has very poor eyesight? In the past I have chased them and had them run into trees and fences and such. Once in SC north of Charleston we spotted one in a nature reserve in the piney woods. I placed my photography passengers in a good spot for a picture and walked around and herded him slowly back to them for a picture. He got excited and ran right into the front right tire of my wife's truck. He got up and did it again. (Did I mention they are also not real smart?)
Back when I still smoked cigs, I was standing near a drainage ditch in Fort Myers one night puffing and had a little armadillo darn near run across my toes.
WTom,
Skunks also have poor eyesight and will do similar things but it is best not to get them excited. :D
They also jump straight up when startled. Does not bode well when crossing the road.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3074.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1651285627)
Do you know if these grasshoppers will be good bluegill bait? I am seriously considering doing a pseudo-scientific study to see if bluegills in WV will eat them even though they have probably never seen one. These are currently living (Infesting?) my mom's place in N. Fla. She has thousands of them in her yard and fields. We always called them Ga Hoppers and if I understand correctly they are a juvenile phase that grows to several inches long. These are between .5-.75 inches long and I should have put a penny or dime beside them for perspective.
Eastern Lubber Grasshoppers - Gardening Solutions - University of Florida, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences (ufl.edu) (https://gardeningsolutions.ifas.ufl.edu/care/pests-and-diseases/pests/eastern-lubber-grasshoppers.html)
I am thinking of harvesting several hundred and freezing them to take back to WV and try them as fish bait.
I've caught a lot of fish on crickets, but I can't recall ever catching any on grasshoppers. Grasshopper juice is pretty foul stuff. When I was a teenager, I was riding my XR 200 Honda wide open down a dirt road (we used to have them around here) and a flying grasshopper (one of those 3-4" yellow/green/orange/black grown ones) and my forehead met. Wow, that was like getting hit with a smelly rock.
Four or five otters would get into our pond every once in a while. Those rascals could deplete the fish population in a small body of water with the quickness.
Did you know another semi-scientific study was conducted to determine the most common species of roadkill and the results turned out to be a skunk? OTR truckers were asked to report the different roadkill animals the found on their trips and the skunks exceeded all other species by a margin of at least 2:1.
Further review of this study found the results were severely flawed because other species such as deer, squirrels, rabbits and such were also more often killed but the driver would often stop and pick it up and take it home to eat of the nearby residents or county road dept would removed them. Skunks were always left where killed forever. :D
Cavey,
The grasshoppers and black crickets and such I have been able to catch and use for bait in WV have been readily eaten by our famished bluegills very readily. I just never had any of these "Ga Hoppers" to try. I'll let you know if it works. Grey fish bait crickets are common bait in the south but are not sold in our bait shops in WV.
The "GA Hoppers" must be better than those "Florida Hoppers". I doubt the the "Gators" will even eat them.
We will find out but I will have to be discrete as wifey does not want me to bring them home even though I assure her they will be dead. (She must be remembering that last time I brought bait back with me and the crawfish got out in the house and she stepped on a big one on the way to the bathroom in the wee hours of the night time.)
I thought a gator would eat anything. Kind of like a Cajun with a longer body, wider mouth and better teeth. (I heard once there was one thing a Cajun would not eat but nobody I have talked to can remember what it was. Maybe the MM remembers. ???)
Did you know the trick to catching baby Ga Hoppers as shown previously is to take a zip-lock bag, find a cluster of the hoppers with a dozen or so, open the bag wide and place it against them. They all jump off their perch and most end up in the bag although a few escape. This is much faster and cleaner than catching them individually and often getting grasshopper spittle on your hands. Shake them down in the bag and repeat with the next cluster. I managed to catch several hundred in a few minutes this way.
As to the grasshopper juice on your hands it is like Catalpa worm juice. It is hard to get off and the most effective way to remove it, according to my dad who was a former Army cook, was to make a big batch of biscuit dough. ;)
Did you know crows and jays and other birds often attack raptors such as hawks, owls and eagles. The raptors are typically much bigger and stronger than the other birds but they are more nimble and the raptors cannot catch or avoid them.
I watched a hawk today near Cullman Ala chasing a hawk. Many years ago while here with my FIL we observed several hundred crows circling and cawing and right in the middle of the huge flock was a red-tailed hawk. I don't see any way it could have escaped that many enemies.
I have also watched mockingbirds and other small songbirds chasing crows. They were more agile and the crow could not catch or avoid them.
Did you know armadillos have moved steadily north over the years? I saw a dozen or so dead ones in N Ala over the last few days. They never ranged that far when I was growing up. They seemed to prefer the warmer climate of S. Ala and Fla and also the sandy soil but they are in some pretty dense clay areas now. I saw on a few years ago north of Charleston SC which was also a significant extension from S. Ga and Fla where they were common. I don't know if they have made it in to N Ga or NC yet.
we have them commonly in Ks, as well as now growing cotton. next will be GRITS! :o :o :o 8) 8) 8) :snowball: :snowball: :snowball: :)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on May 03, 2022, 10:05:30 PMDid you know crows and jays and other birds often attack raptors such as hawks, owls and eagles. The raptors are typically much bigger and stronger than the other birds but they are more nimble and the raptors cannot catch or avoid the
We see that with the local Magpies. They will "buzz" a native hawk that strays into their nesting territory. Actually that will buzz any human that gets too close as well.
The Magpie is the Australian version of the crow, not directly related, but similar size and habits. Luckily they aren't native / protected, so you can still shoot them if necessary. But like crows they are very smart, and also vocal. Pets ones are really cool
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/_DSC4095.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1651838170)
Did you know ravens have a very good memory and are very vengeful? I had a co-worker and sometimes dive partner in Jeddah in Saudi Arabia who had several ravens nesting in some kind of curly bean tree around his house. One morning he spotted one on the ground in the back yard behind his kitchen and he eased the window open, slid his spear gun out and shot it. It was badly wounded and screaming to beat the band till he went out and finished it off. Till the day he left the project every time he left his house it was at a dead run to his car where he'd duck in to avoid the attacking raven swooping at him from all sides. When he returned he'd have to run from the car to the house with his keys in his hand to quickly open the door to avoid them. They never forgot or forgave him for shooting their buddy/brother.
I took a walk out behind the house a few days ago and heard some crows mobbing so I worked my way over and got a good look at the Great Horned Owl they were tormenting. A pair of crows have a nest in a Blue Spruce in my front yard. They strictly enforce a no-fly zone for Other crows, hawks and occaisional raven. Ravens in this area have been nesting in highway department salt barns/sheds. Great photo, Hilltop !
Have had a crows nest with young a couple times in the past. And even when 100 yards away, the cries of the young were loud and relentless as they were always hungry, I'm thinking. Finally had to remove that nest (shotgun time) in order to get some peace and quiet.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on May 05, 2022, 09:50:09 PMDid you know armadillos have moved steadily north over the years?
They have been common in central Georgia for a while.
Did you know that many species of wasps are meat eaters and are actually good for the environment because they eat many species of insect larvae, especially when they are in the caterpillar stage? I'd prefer to use the caterpillars for fish bait and do away with the wasps but that's probably not going to happen. ::)
Did you know when bees get overcrowded in their hive (Natural or manmade) they prepare to swarm and make a new queen and send out scout bees to find a new home? The scout bees are looking for cavity of several gallons capacity and a small entrance they can defend. A hollow tree with a knothole for an entrance is ideal. Sometimes they find a crack in the side of a rocky mountain face. Sometimes it is a tiny hole under the eaves of a building and the cavity between the walls of the home or an old barn is used to raise brood and store honey.
Beekeepers often put out pressed wood or paper containers with pheromone lures to attract the scout bees. If the swarm moves in the beekeeper moves them to a hive body.
In Africa various tribesmen make baskets from palm fronds, bamboo or wooden slats and hang them in likely looking trees from 6' to 15' above ground. One style I saw looked like and old Horn of Plenty. A palm frond about 5'-6' long would be cut off the tree. The frond would be split into 4 ribs leaving the last 10"-12" as a handle. They would pull the ribs apart and add more ribs and weave material to close in the sides. The big end was typically about 12"-14" in diameter. In the end they would make a plug. One tribe used fresh cow manure to seal the end. They would leave a small entrance hole in the plug. The bees would glue and seal every crack when they moved in.
I once asked my guide in Ethiopia what kept people from stealing other people's hives and he told me the owner would find footprints afterward or take precautions in advance and have the local witch put a curse on the hives and anyone who had or late stole the hives and anyone who had eaten the honey would be bitten by a mamba snake.
My daughter keeps bees. She tells me when they swarm they are very docile and can be manipulated easily without a bee suit. She has sent me pictures of people covered in bees from a swarm. Evidently the bees are not protecting anything and do not sting during the swarming season.
When they get in a house, a 'cutout' is required to remove the bees and honey. Just spraying them will result in dead stuff in your walls that attracts all kinds of bad stuff.
Don't trust them late in the summer though, they are protecting honey and will nail you in a heartbeat!
Yes, bees are pretty docile when they swarm. They soak up all the honey they can hold to carry them through till they get settled into their new home and can start foraging again. Move slowly and carefully not to mash one and it is even possible to lift the whole swarm but I don't recommend that practice/technique.
Where you can reach them if you encounter a swarm on a low limb or such the easy way to hive them is to place a hive body with frames of wax (Drawn our brood frames are better and the best is to include a frame of live brood) and the bees will melt down into the hive body between the frames then put a top and bottom on and place them where wanted. Some people rap the limb they are on with an ax or such. When swarming on higher limbs a rope around the hive body thrown on a higher limb and raised to the swarm then lowered when they enter also works well.
I have seen people put a hive body with frames over a cut off bee tree and in some cases the queen will move up into it and start laying then and top and body can be put on to start a new hive.
While at AU I was out foraging for plants in bloom or with fruit for a Systematic Botany class and smelled old honey like a bee tree. I was in an area with all young growth and not a likely spot for a bee tree which are usually overaged. I followed the smell till I found a large swarm on a low sweetgum limb. I went back to my '69 Buick LeSabre and got an empty ice chest, placed it under the hive, rapped the limb sharply and shook them off into the cooler and closed the lid. I took them back then went to a local beekeeper I knew of and bought an empty hive, brought the bees back and dumped them into it only to find they were all dead from the heat. Note to self: Never store live bees in a closed container in the back of a car in Ala during the warmer months. ::)
Did you know a mosquito injects an anesthetic and blood thinner into their victim when they bite? This way the blood cells start breaking down, are partially digested and are easier for them to draw up into their proboscis or beak and the victim does not feel them bite as readily. When they inject this into the victim they also inject parasite such as malaria and heartworms and such. The injected fluid also causes an allergic reaction with swelling and itching and such.
Yes WV, I'm reminded of these facts frequently, as I swat🦟.
Did you know that honey made at different seasons and from different plants will have different viscosities? I learned this several years ago when I had some partially filled jars of Spring and Fall honey and I combined them into one jar. A little while later I looked and there were 2 distinct layers of different colors in the jar. I think you can heat the honey and they will mix.
My daughter says the August honey is called 'Mother-in-law' honey because of the things blooming then. Not as good as the spring flow.
Troy,
When you open a hive you can often see different colors of capped honey in the same frame based on what was blooming at the time the workers collected it. Fall flowers are often a mix of asters and often make very dark honey with a strong taste. It is often left for the bees for their winter feed but I find it to be very good. Local honey is often recommended for people with various allergies because it exposes them to small amounts of local, seasonal irritants. If you have allergies to Fall flowers it makes sense you should be eating Fall Honey.
Yeah, she has shown me the different colors on the frames based on the kind of pollen brought in. I've got a hive at my camp that she tends for me, just as a novelty mostly. We did get a few bottles out of it last year and it was surprisingly good. She is into keeping pretty deep, and the honey she gives me varies in color from year to year. She says the fall honey is what you "give to your mother-in-law'. :D
Did you know that in a 'Honey Contest', taste is only one of the judging criteria. Presentation, jar filling, moisture content, finger prints, and other things she explained to me weigh heavily on the score.
Did you know estimates are that it takes the equivalent of 7 lbs of honey to make one pound of beeswax? This is one of the reasons beekeepers re-use drawn out frames that the bees can simply refill. The beekeeper takes the frames with the capped honey, cuts off the cappings with a hot knife or scratches them open with a wire comb like tool then slings honey out in an extractor. The honey runs down the side and is emptied at a gate valve in the bottom and the empty frames are put back on the hives to be cleaned up and refilled. A handy tool to salvage all the honey possible from the extractor is a simple rubber cake spatula used to scrape the honey off the sides. I'd get an extra jar or so of honey just with the spatula. I used to open the gate valve on the extractor and let the honey flow into a 5 gallon bucket covered with cheesecloth to screen off any wax or dead bees and such. I had a plastic gate valve in the bucket I'd open to fill my jars.
The cappings and such would be melted down to recover the wax which could be sold, used for crafts or other projects or returned to various companies to be pressed into sheets of starter wax to put in the new frames for the bees to draw out and fill with brood or honey.
I think I remember that each worker makes one little "flake" of wax per day.
Y'all were talking about how docile engorged swarming bees are. We were working on a house when my helper came in and said "There is something going on in in the tree line over by the garden". They had a couple of hives and sure enough one had swarmed. I let the owner know and he came out with a doctored hive in the back of the truck. Standing in the bed he could just cut off the branch and then he was going to shake them into the hive. He slipped and fell in the bed, dumped them all over him. He never got a sting, hung around laying there and got her into the hive and life was good.
Did you know you can make a very good live bait bucket by taking a 5 gallon plastic bucket with a good fitting lid and drilling 1/4" holes all through the bucket and lid? Be sure to drill several holes in the bottom and lid so they don't catch air.
I use such a bucket to keep small bream alive in the lake where I catch and use them for catfish bait on my limblines. I keep the bait in my livewell of my boat during the day but when I get ready to leave for the day I take any extra bait and put them in the bucket and sink them in the lake in a convenient spot. I make sure the lid is snapped tight and has a nylon cord from the bucket through the lid. I tie them out 3'-4' deep to a convenient stump or treetop at or below the waterline where they will not be seen using a dark green or black cord and I use a green or black bucket that is hard to see. Often I add a railroad spike or small stone to overcome any neutral or positive buoyancy of the bucket.
I used to have a lot of my bait die on the trip to or from the lake. I'd stake them out in the creek in my front yard. This system is easier and no loss of any healthy bait. it is too hard and takes too much time to catch them to lose them.
If you don't catch any catfish, in a bind you can eat the bait. Once we went fishing on lake Hartwell in early Spring. The day turned out very cold and windy. No luck fishing at all, so we built a fire on the shore and cooked and ate the chicken livers we had took with us for catfish bait.
Danny,
I have used a few nice bluegills for bait and if nothing hit them and they were still lively at the end of the trip I'd take them off, clean and eat them. We used to use frozen shrimp for catfish bait with our rods and reels. We take them out 1 at a time to use for bait. If we had a slow day at the end of the day I have often taken the partially thawed shrimp and made shrimp friend rice out of them.
My grandfather used to boil his shrimp for bait. He'd go sit on the bank of the Suwannee River and bottom fish with his boiled shrimp. If the fish were biting he'd use up his bait. If not he'd get to munching on it and eat it all up himself.
We had an old on-armed neighbor who used to hunt and fish and was the world's tallest tale teller. He always used a cane pole (Duuhh - what else could he use?) and lots of times he'd sit on a 5 gallon bucket in about 10" of water where the bluegills were bedding in our local gravel lakes on the full moon and catch big bluegills. He'd toss them back behind him to his wife who would take the fish off and rebait for him. She used a rod and reel to reach the fish. He used to crack us kids up talking about baiting a hook when fishing by himself. He said you had to hold either the hook or the bait in your teeth while you baited with the one hand. He said it was hard to use minnows because they were slimy and flopped around so much you'd swallow one pretty regularly. Crickets legs would break and get between your teeth and scratched your throat when you swallowed one. Worms were hard to hold and tasted awful when you'd bust one.
I've made bait buckets out of 5 gallon buckets like you mentioned but usually cut round plywood tops for them and drill 1/2" holes. We also use pool noodles, zip ties, laundry bags and romex (for weight and to form the bottom hoop) for bait bags to use when wading. The bags don't work well when fishing strong current. We've also used large Rubbermaid type garbage cans for bait storage at the dock.
When we used to have leftover live shrimp, sometimes we would cook them but often we would cut them into small pieces, peel them and put them into a butter tub filled with salt. They can then be kept in a tackle box without smelling and are great for tipping a jig or using as bait to catch bigger bait. The salt will make them tough and a much hardier bait.
Cavey,
Very good point on beefing up a jig. I like to use an ultralight spinning rig with a jig spinner (Beetle Spin type lure) for fishing for bluegills or crappie or such but I always found the fish would tap at the rubber jig tails more than they'd get hooked. I replace the rubber tail or grub with a cricket, crawfish tail, chunk of a minnow or even a worm if nothing else and I have much better luck with it. I feel the spinner attracts them then when they smell the meat they attack. I also find they are much more aggressive in moving water because they realize they have to grab it before it is gone. I can easily see where a piece of salted shrimp would work well. They sell pieces of tough meatskin for that but I never tried them and just used fresh bait.
The bait buckets you mention seem to be used in accompanied or secure areas. Mine are left out in a public lake a people could either steal them or turn the bait loose if they found them so I hide them. I used to also hide the end of my trotlines to help prevent theft. The law generally says the lines have to be marked with your name and info but they do not say they have to be visible all the time so mine are on the end of the line under water for compliance and theft prevention. On limblines they are easily visible especially when there is a big angry catfish beating a limber green limb into the water. Hard core thieves will see it and throw the fish in the boat and just cut the line rather than unhooking it. Fortunately most folks around here tend to be pretty honest and don't mess with them. I do often have a fisherman see me checking my lines and tell me "You have a big one shaking a limb in that next cove". Of course "big one" to them may not be the same as I am expecting. I'll get to him in due course but it is nice to know they have seen and left him alone. I often show others my set up in case they ever want to try it.
Those bait buckets we were using would hold 15 or so whitebait, pinfish or grunts that we would use to fish the west coast (Gulf) passes for snook during the summer months. Generally, the current is pretty swift when they are feeding (usually an afternoon outgoing tide). I have not fished for them in several years.
Did you know it is the season for fawns in WV right now? I saw an old doe 4-5 days ago that looked like she was ready to drop just any minute. I went up in the woods yesterday in my pasture to retrieve a 40' poplar log I'd cut and and left there and there were 9 does and yearlings in the edge of the woods. They went over and investigated where I dragged down a couple of tops for future firewood and to clear the trails with and for my ATV. They were not alarmed at all by me being there. I'd say 2-3 were adult does who should drop fawns any day and the rest were born this time last year.
We may have mentioned this but did you know whitetail does will often nurse fawns from other deer. I watched 3 fawns nurse 2 different does in the back yard last year. Of course they could have been the fawns mom and grandmother from what I could tell. I remember had 2 cats once that both went into labor at the same time and delivered both litters in the same box on the porch and jointly raised them. They were a mother/daughter pair but never knew who the mom was for each kitten nor apparently did the kittens and they did not care.
Did you know there are 2 main types of skunks? The larger striped skunk is what most people typically think about. Sometimes they do not have a stripe and are completely black and on other rare occasions they are nearly all white. The other species is the spotted skunk which is smaller and some people think have a more pungent odor. The spotted skunk is often called a Polecat although that term may be used for both types by some people.
Over the years I have seen a couple of Striped Skunks that were white and beige or tan. I once caught one that was really beautiful. It was late fall and the fur prime and dollars signs flashed in my eyes. I then tried to tranfer it into another cage trap and I got careless and it made good its' escape. Tried to catch it again with no success. I hate when that happens.
Sorry it escaped but are you sure it would have been more valuable? I understand odd colors are rare but if it takes several pelts to make a garment will the buyer even want it?
Does are ready to drop fawns in central Georgia also. I watch them on a live camera at the feeder. The doe will disappear a few days and when she comes back the fawn will be with her. Raccoon got my camera and feeder couple days ago so repair work in order tomorrow. Going to install the shocker feeder.
I had a really pretty skunk in my garage a few years ago. It sprayed my cur dog and left a pungent odor for a few days. I think most folks refer to the one we had as a civic cat. It was probably 3-4 pounds and had splotches rather than a stripe. I caught it with a landing net zip tied to a ten-foot bamboo pole. When I dumped it out in the front yard, it stood on its front legs and pointed the business end towards me. We agreed to part ways without any further confrontation.
As a child, I do remember smelling skunks quite often. Now it is a rarity. Our part of the world is becoming more populated every day. Land that used to sell for $100 acre is now getting $10K or more.
Are any of the rest of you having more rat problems than ever before this year? If any of you have any rat killing/catching ninja skills, I'd appreciate you sharing.
Cavey,
Yes, spotted skunks are often called Civet cats although they are not felines.
Sorry about the rat problem. I'd suggest more snakes but that is not always acceptable. If you can find their food source and shut it off they will leave for easier hunting grounds. I'd suggest plenty of bait traps (D-con and such) and maybe glue boards.
When I was a kid we'd get together at my maternal grandparents and us cousins would move the corn in Grandpa's crib and kill a bunch. Also at night we'd get out with bb guns or .22 with rat shot and shoot them.
Good luck getting rid of them.
Did you know goat milk makes a good substitute for deer milk if necessary? Several years ago friends gave us a newborn fawn about the size of our cat. The mother had been killed by a car. We had goats at the time and tried to get one old nanny who had adopted orphan kids before to raise her. The goat would accept goat kids but not a deer so we had to milk her and feed the deer. The deer did real well on the goat milk.
Did you know Black locust (often called Yellow locust around here) makes very good honey? I see my trees are hanging heavy with blooms now. I lost my bees years ago but remember having a heavy honey flow from from the locust. It was very clear, sweet honey and I remember my bees completely refilling a super in less than a week. Other popular honey sources are sourwood, basswood, clover and tupelo.
The skunk that I caught would be worth the most money sold to a taxidermist. If you catch an exceptional animal, freeze it whole and contact a taxidermist. He will want to skin it very carefully and oftentimes you will get more than if it went into the traditional fur market, sometimes considerably more.
KEC,
Are you married? If so been married long? I am not sure how many brides will tolerate finding a dead, frozen skunk in the freezer under the frozen pizzas when looking for the green beans for supper. :D
Once I killed a rattlesnake, skinned it, cleaned it, and cut it into strips with the intent of cooking it at a wildlife supper that we were going to have. I put it in my sister's freezer. She had a lady that came over and helped her around the house occasionally that was deathly afraid of snakes. My sister told her to go the freezer and she get some catfish that was in there to take home as the lady loved fish. Well, you guessed it. She got the rattlesnake instead of the catfish. I never said a word :). If she knew that she had eaten a rattlesnake, it would have killed her. Sometimes ignorance is better than full disclosure.
I had a lady eat a bunch of racoon made into BBQ at a church supper we went to one time in Albany Ga because she thought it was deer. She got very upset when she found out it was a coon. I have knowingly eaten some strange things on my jobs and travels overseas and enjoyed most of them. I still believe it is mostly food handling and preparation.
I'd have had to ask the lady how the "fish" tasted. :D
It is all protein, but you are what you eat. so fish is fish, and cow we are used to is kinda plain meat.
Did you know a groundhog has a very tough hide and used to be the preferred skin for a drumhead by many of the American Indians?
And banjo heads, shoelaces, etc. The fat when rendered remains liquid at room temperature.
We have a guy at the farm doing some community service hours. He took home today's baby groundhog capture. I'm not sure if they can be broken, never heard of it.
Don,
Around here I have heard of several people talking about digging up baby groundhogs and keeping them for pets and they swore they were great pets. A buddy of mine said he had one that loved to sit up and eat corn chips.
I did not know anyone ever rendered the fat or that it was liquid at rood temps.
WV, It is helpful if you want a happy marraige to have a dedicated freezer in the garage for furs, trapping bait and dead skunks. I can tell you, if you are looking for a way to cinch the deal on a divorce, there is a way that is much more effective than the skunk in the freezer. I once conducted an experiment to test a carcass digester to dispose of carcasses. In a minor lapse of judgment I put it too close to the house. The needle on the stenchometer was pegged to the maximum. Luckily the marraige survived.
a friend that worked as a grounds maintenance guy at fort hays university, took home several baby animals. a squirrel was quite tame and came when called, and would shake hands (fingers) with Al.
My baby sister asked my mother whether she could have a squirrel if she caught one. Well that was easy "Sure".
Not 5 minutes later she came in with a baby squirrel :D. She kept it for awhile but we had a cat and they never quite warmed up to each other. It could have been that the cat ate about half of the little squirrel's tail off. Little Sis turned it loose and it would come check in every now and then for a year or two.
As kids we were down in Central Fla at my great grandfathers old place and there were several wild hogs around so we asked Dad who they belonged to. He told us there were wild so we asked if we could have one if we could catch it. he said sure so we took off. I found a single lost pig and chased it into a wire fence and caught it by the tail before it could get completely through. My brother climbed the fence and got it and handed it back to me then he saw a sow with a litter of real small piglets. He chased them into an old rusty roll of fence wire and caught one. It squealed and the sow turned around and chased him till the threw it up in the air and it landed in her face while he escaped. She checked it out and all was well till mine squealed and she took out after me - an mine was not even her pig. I ran up a a leaning dead live oak and got about 10' high with the pig still under my arm. She tried several times to climb the leaning tree but would fall off about half way to me. Finally she did a nose count and decided she had all her brood and left the area and I climbed down with my pig only to find Dad tell me I could not keep it. He only told us we could keep them because he knew we'd never catch one. Never tell a kid he can have any critter if he can catch it as be sure he will.
I hope not to insult anyone but do you know that a rodent's teeth are constantly growing and they have to keep chewing on hard wood or other surfaces to keep them worn down? Many people make the mistake of getting a hamster or such as a pet then feeding it soft food and their teeth grow into a full curl that eventually will cause the animal to starve to death.
I caught a couple of woodchucks over the years that had mis-aligned incisors and they looked like little mammoths. Both looked healthy. At least with beaver, the front surface of their incisors are harder than the rest of the tooth so when they bite the softer part wears faster and puts a bevel on the end of the tooth. Self sharpening. Boil a beaver skull until the incisors loosen and work them out of the skull. They are amazingly long.
Did you know the old time elephant hunters only hunted the big old tuskers with huge tusks? These old bruisers were at the end of their life cycle, on their last set of molars and would have died of natural causes in a short while and carrying the heavy load meant they were in pain all the time anyway. The local villagers would help the hunters locate the elephants because when he shot one the whole village came and had a big party and feast.
In later years the greed set in and people began shooting the young bulls and cows and started decimating the population.
I am not a fan of the ivory trade and in no way support it but I have no problems with selective harvesting of overaged trophy animals which are destined to become food for predators and scavengers anyway. I think they serve a much more useful purpose funding the local population and species.
I'm reading the life and history of Wilbur Smith, one of my favorite African writers and he mentions this topic in his book.
In parts of Africa the wardens tranquilize young elephants whose tusks are starting and knock/cut them off. This has greatly cut down poaching.
I knew they cut off rhino horns to protect the animals but did not know they cut the tusks off the elephants but it makes sense it should help. In some cases the poachers kill the animals anyway just for spite.
Did you know male members of the deer family produce and shed their antlers every year while antelope, goats, sheep, buffalo, musk ox, and other horned animals produce horns which continue to grow and that they maintain for their entire lifetime?
Deer produce different sized antlers with varying number of points each year and the biggest antlers and largest number of points may not be at the oldest point in his life. This depends on food and stress and other factors as they change each year. We had a lifetime of sheds from a pen raised deer at Auburn which started as a small pair of spikes then for the next 15-16 years or so that he lived. The most impressive racks for a hunter actually occurred at the 3.5 and 4.5 year marks. After that he sometimes had more points but smaller main beams. This deer had a stable and consistent food supply and very little changes in stress his entire natural life. You may actually find a very old buck deer with a single gnarly spike or such as he is no longer able to produce an impressive set of antlers.
Antelopes, especially African antelope, continue to grow their horns their entire life so, unless damaged, the older they get the bigger the trophy. A Kudu or Oryx or such with a huge set of horns may actually no longer be a member of the breeding pool as a younger, stronger bull with smaller horns (but bigger muscles and more stamina) takes over his harem and chases him away from the herd.
Animals like sheep can actually be aged from a distance with a good pair of optics by counting the rings on the ram's horns. Each year a distinct new growth ring is added to his horns. Various states even specify sheep below a certain age are illegal to harvest.
I knew that.
Did you know that when attacking an Oryx a lion or two will sometimes get killed? They have those huge, scimitar shaped, needle sharp horns that are 3' or more long. It is not uncommon to find a dead oryx with a lion impaled on his horns. Sometimes a cocky bull oryx will walk right down to a water hole where lions are watering and just sort of push their way in like "I'm Bad. Get outta my way!" - and the lions generally move over.
We have also watched them use those long horns to walk under a tight barb wire fence. The oryx will walk up to the fence, stick his head under and just start walking. The fence will slide right along the horns till it slides off the end. It does look like the fence slaps the oryx on the rump and must scratch or cut him but he does not seem to mind.
Did you know the hump on a camel stands erect when he is well hydrated but will flop over to the side when he is not? The hump is apparently mostly fat but it does serve as a water reservoir which allows the camel to go longer periods between drinking.
A camel is an amazing animal and would get fat in areas where a billy goat would starve to death. He can carry huge loads across the desert with feet that spread out and also do very little damage to the area he is walking across. He is also very contrary and will bite or spit on you.
Did you know there is a type of wood boring beetle called a "Death Watch Beetle"? They bore into old wood and lay their eggs. To attract a mate they make a clicking noise. Late at night and in the early hours of the morning people sitting up with the dead, which was a common custom, would hear them and superstitions began to develop around them being a harbinger of future deaths in the family and area.
Did you know the African civet is a fairly large animal about the size of a coyote? It looks like a medium sized dog, a raccoon and a leopard crossed up. It produces musk like a skunk which is used to make perfumes and such. It is eaten as bushmeat and I often used to see them hanging on poles beside the main roads for sale. The hide is saved for fur and the meat is supposed to be white in color (although looking at one would prevent me from having any appetite.) It is an omnivore and in its own class of animals - not a feline or canine although similar in looks to both.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_civet
Kopi Luwak anyone :D?
My partner gave a serious coffee lover client some. I took a pass.
Quote from: Don P on May 25, 2022, 05:19:32 PM
Kopi Luwak anyone :D?
My partner gave a serious coffee lover client some. I took a pass.
That ain't right. If I want good stuff I go to the black rifle.
Since I don't drink coffee this is one more thing I don't have to worry about. :D
I'm fuzzy, this isn't pc but I think is correct, maybe someone knows more. The coffee workers in Dutch Indonesia were effectively slaves. They were denied the beans they picked. No one was going to argue if they took home cat scat and so they could have the beans in the poop and the owners got the "good stuff". Sometime recently someone, who must have had a degree in marketing decided that the gut altered coffee was the "good stuff". The report I got was "nothing special".
As an aside the Indonesian influence on Dutch cuisine was pretty profound. My wife can source ingredients from Holland or places here and makes some good Indonesian dishes. One of my first meals with her family, her mother made nasi goreng, a fried rice dish with spiced vegetables and meat, an egg and a small bowl of sambal to taste, their hot chili paste. I did not realize how hot or the continuing build. I made it intact with her brother about to bust a gut watching my suitor's self inflicted misery.
Don,
I did not know the history of the Dutch Indonesian coffee workers. It sounds sort of like the southern black slaves who got the off cuts of the pig like the ribs and shoulders and such while the owners got the hams and loins and backstraps and such. The slaves had to cook their meat slowly to make it tender enough to eat and seasoned it to make it edible. When the owners tasted it they liked it and things like ribs became popular.
Think of chicken wings which used to be dirt cheap till somebody figured how good they were when cut at the joint and fried as a snack or appetizer.
I do know Indonesians use some of the worlds hottest spices. I think they have some that rate easily double the "temperature" of a habanero pepper. Some are downright dangerous and will jsut about stop your heart.
Did you know in many parts of the USA now is the time to go hunting for whitetail fawns? You ask "Why would anybody hunt a fawn?" Why, they are extremely tender and delicious and can be a real challenge to hunt with small arms as they zig and zag when they do run.
Actually, I am not talking about harming the fawns but looking for them to photograph and show the kids and grandkids. That can be some of the best quality time you can imagine wandering slowly through the woods and fields looking for the elusive and extremely cute little animals. I often do it with my local granddaughters and my 2 in Charlotte are just the right age to enjoy the search.
To start look in places where you have found them before. I have one short ridge in my pasture that is a popular nursery for fawns. I guess the smells are funneled up the ridge and the deer have good visibility and escape paths. Look for places where you see does feeding as new moms like to keep their babies resting places in sight. If you happen to see a fawn following a doe and suddenly lose sight of it you can be certain the fawn is nesting real close to where you last saw it.
The younger the fawn the tighter they hold. Be careful not to step on them. When they are a few weeks old they will flush and run when you get close to them but not newborns. Some farmers make a "tickler" tool with short chains on a piece of pipe that the put on an ATV and ride on front of the tractor. If the chain touches the hidden fawn he will often jump up and run instead of getting cut by the mower blades. Ride by any hay field this time of year and you will likely see buzzards/vultures circling the field or feeding on dead fawns and snakes killed by the mowers.
If looking for fawns on a slope try to walk along the slope paying particular attention to the uphill side where you can see better under the weeds and bushes. A small leafy weed can completely hide a small fawn. Look closely at the base of trees and beside fallen limbs and logs as the fawns like to nestle up against them. When you find well used deer trails walk carefully along them watching closely along both sides as the does will often park the fawns beside the trail.
When you do find a fawn be careful to teach the kids to look but not touch. Remember many does have twins and hang out with others so take care not to step on one fawn while watching another as it is common to have several bedded close together. I have found fawns in completely bare areas and nearly stepped on them before I saw them. Afterwards I asked myself "How did I not see that deer sooner?" Older fawns will sometimes bolt when you make eye contact with them and they realize they have been seen.
If you have the chance there is nothing more fun and exciting than taking young kids out and helping them find fawns. In the process they often find box turtles, wood frogs, snakes, bird nest and such and it is a great teaching experience you and they will remember forever.
Do you mean like these two little guys Howard?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/52103/DSCF2707.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1561295796)
BTW, these are brown with white spots.
Not in Wisconsin...
QuoteGetting too close or disturbing a fawn is very stressful for the animals . And remember , it is against Wisconsin law for people or pets to chase , harass , molest , or otherwise harm wildlife .
They's all over my postage stamp right now. Was mowing tall stuff the other day and got right to a couple before they bugged. I was creeping as slow as the shuttle lever on that big old Simplicity hydrostatic would go, which is very slow indeed, so the little spotted guys were never in danger.
Tom,
If those are this year's fawns I believe your season is earlier than ours as those look bigger than ours right now. I am glad you got your monitor adjusted to finally see true brown (Ok., reddish brown) colors for a change.
BT,
Please note that I never said to disturb the fawns. I am very careful not to intentionally do so and have diligently cautioned the girls to look but not touch. We have all probably accidentally spooked fawns of different ages by cutting a tree that landed beside them or almost stepped on them or such. I don't think anyone wants to intentionally hurt or scare them. They are super neat little animals. Even my farmer friends get real distressed when they hurt one and do all the can not to do so.
Down here if you went looking for fawns you would probably not see many but you would sure see some ticks. Lots and lots of ticks.
Quote from: WDH on May 27, 2022, 06:46:46 AMDown here if you went looking for fawns you would probably not see many
Saw a newborn day before yesterday. Mama still comes to the feeder daily but she is keeping baby in the woods for now. She was pregnant few days ago, and the day I saw the fawn she wasn't anymore. Thought it was a rabbit when it first jumped up.
Did you know how a deer or most antelopes jump a fence or other obstruction? Instead of getting a running start like you would think they walk up to it, stop, squat down and leap up like a bullfrog jumping. They tuck their front legs against their chest and they carefully lift their back feet as they clear the fence. This technique is used by whitetail deer, elk, Kudus, moose, etc.
In most cases the animal will prefer to crawl under the fence if possible and will walk a quarter mile to find a low spot to crawl under rather than jumping a fence they could easily jump anywhere along it.
Did you know when elephants make a friendly greeting they will walk up face to face with each other and entertwine their trunks kind of like people shaking hands?
But as with handshakes, we really don't know if it is a friendly greeting or a test of strength and dominance.
the traditional greeting is for two potential enemies to shake each other's dominant hand, making them unable to get their sword/weapon. so, an offering of peace/respect. I guess it would be an advantage for a left-handed scoundrel.
I knew showing the empty palm was traditional and I think the basis for the military salute which was basically a sign of respect and professional courtesy. I know the term "Turncoat" was used when soldiers would reverse their coats to match the color of the enemy and they would do this to change to the winning side and avoid being killed. I know Arabs and I think there were cases of turning coats in the American Civil War.
I know dominant male animals of various species do a lot of posturing and strutting around and often avoid actually fights by scaring off their adversary or maybe just bluffing them enough. It is why many animals have big feathers and fur that fluffs up to make them look bigger and more dangerous. "Experts" (?) advise this technique in many cases to defend yourself from aggressive or threatening predators.
Of course this reminds me of the old joke about the big bad bull and all the young bulls trying to be meek and submissive except one who bellows and snorts and paws the dirt and the others ask him what he is doing and he says he just wants to be sure the big mean bull to knows he is a bull and not a cow. :D
BT,
As to the question about the strength involved the first time I ever saw two elephants greet as described was at a water hole on Kruger Game Park in South Africa. This was 21 December 2011 and here is my journal entry:
A few miles further along I spot another herd of elephants bathing and playing in a large water hole to our right. We pull over to watch them. They are spraying themselves and spraying each other. One is rolling in the mud. All are soaked and muddy. Off to the side are a very large tusker and another young bull elephant. There must be around 30 elephants in the herd. The herd starts moving around the water hole and the separate young bull walks over to meet the matriarch. Koos tells us to watch as when they meet they will intertwine their trunks as a form of “handshake”. Sure enough they do so. From the back of the herd the young herd bull sees the other bull and he is evidently not happy. He strides quickly forward and all the other elephants step aside. The young bull who just greeted the matriarch wheels around and runs away - towards us! The old tusker packs his freight and high tails it off in the other direction. The young upstart trots past us and the herd bull follows. The herd bull sees us with Sharon standing in the open sunroof and abruptly changes course and comes our way. He flares his ears and charges us. As he passes a mud puddle he reaches down and scoops up a trunk full of mud. Koos yells at Sharon to get back in the car then cranks up and drives away before we get trampled. The bull was mad at the other bull but was ready to take it out on anything in his path, including us. At first Koos starts out in reverse towards the bull and we yell at him to go the other way! Evidently he had parked right next to a big stump and had to back up to get enough clearance to drive around it. As we pick up speed it finally becomes apparent we are outrunning the bull and in complete frustration and disgust, the bull throws the trunk full of mud at us. This was the most exciting thing to happen on the trip! I don’t know what happened to the young upstart bull elephant that started the whole issue or whether he deliberately led the herd bull towards us as a distraction for him to escape.
Did you know there are small birds that sometimes fly or walk into an open crocodile mouth to feed on the small pieces of fish and meat left there? The amazing thing is the crocodile sits there patiently and lets the bird walk around instead of snapping his jaws shut for a quick snack.
Did you know the three-toed sloth in the Amazon jungle prefers certain trees to others and a knowledgeable guide will start his search for them by finding the right type of tree? Also a sloth looks brown from a distance but when you get closer you will see he is two toned with a light brown and a darker, chocolate brown color. (No purple though.) ;)
Did you know the fruit of the Cacao tree/plant from which we make chocolate has a large (Fist sized) yellow/orange (when ripe) fruit that grows along the trunk or from the larger limbs rather than from the tips of the limbs as do most trees? Figs grow in a similar configuration.
Following up on the fawn conversation of last week, I went out in my swamp to assess how much more brush I left have to burn up. I should be at that again tomorrow. So when I walked out behind the shop I found myself face to face with this pretty little girl.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/52103/IMG_20220531_162211403.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1654033631)
She startled me a bit, but I just talked to her calmly and she didn't seem agitated at all. No tail flicks. She was patient. I backed off and went around the shed and came in from another angle. She hadn't moved and just stood there watching me, I kept talking and she went back to browsing as I moved around with no concern. I checked the little bit of smoking fire I had left and she never spooked. Not one single tail flick. I did look for fawns, but in the past if I have found a momma near her fawn she stands her ground but is agitated and does the 'foot stomp thing'. When I left the swamp she was still browsing around. They seem very calm this time of year, the does anyway, not so much the bucks. Those guys need to take a chill pill. ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/52103/IMG_20220531_162335977.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1654033629)
Tom,
Two days ago I rode my ATV along the trail above a spring and looked down and spotted a doe bedded down. I rode around and came up below to the closest point to her. Last year there was frequently a deer bedded down in that spot - it is cool and they seem to like it. She stood up and finally trotted off as I walked up. I looked all over for a fawn but did not see one.
Yesterday I went up into a spruce patch (Overaged planted Christmas trees) and cut a big dead ash tree and found it was much more solid than I was expecting. I bucked it into logs and while I was doing that I looked up and spotted a big old doe walking below me in the open pasture about 60 yards away. The chainsaw running and tree falling did not seem to disturb her at all. It is common for them to calmly walk around me while I am doing things like that and I even had one come bed down 30 yards away from me while I was running the sawmill. Most years I watch a couple of does raise 2-3 fawns in the pasture and they mostly just ignore me.
Last year during antlerless season I had not seen anything to shoot and walked back to my ATV, rode about 100 yards and a big old doe and a 6 month old fawn were standing about 30 yards away just watching. I stopped, took my rifle off my back loaded it, aimed at the doe and looked at the fawn and just lowered it, unloaded it and rode home leaving them standing there. I just did not have the heart to shoot them when they are that tame. They did that 5-6 more times throughout the season and for all I know the deer I saw yesterday may be the same one as I never shot her.
good on you. if you and your family are hungry/starving a different story.
There's about a 3' dropoff to my side as I get out of the truck. As I got out of the truck this afternoon, there lay a fawn on the pile of bark and debris I sweep over that side.
Back in the day of fire control we would have deer walk the new fire line not too far behind the plow.
Pulp wooders working in South Ala near where I grew up and where I first started hunting deer always had a single shot .12 gauge shotgun in rack in their beat up old trucks. It was common for deer to come to the landings where/while they were cutting pulp wood and they would shoot them.
These were the days when pulp wood was cut in 8' lengths and loaded perpendicular to the bed of old trucks that had already been worn out from any other use. If you saw a pulpwood truck coming you gave it the road because you knew the brakes did not work, the turn signals did not work, it probably had no fenders, cracked windshields, etc. and you certainly knew the owner had no insurance. ::)
Still it was amazing to me that deer would walk into these busy landings with chainsaws running, loaders running around, etc. I guess the deer also knew they had access to vines and tree tops with leafy green leaves and such and would come feast on them.
The short pulpwood around here was cut 5.25 feet long and most of it was loaded by hand on those old Pepsi Cola trucks that had been modified, and it was hauled to pulpwood yards where it was loaded onto train cars for delivery to the pulpmill. I was buying 100 train cars of it a week in the early 1980's, but with the advent of tree length "longwood", the short pulpwood era for our mill was over by 1985.
Did you know the Hoatzin bird in the Amazon Jungle is called a "Stinky Turkey"? It looks a lot like a very large grouse and looked to me like it weighed about 7-8 lbs. It is a very pretty bird. It has a loud raucous call and is very common in the jungle along the Amazon River and its tributaries. It is found in the tops of small trees and eats the leaves. It has a very foul odor so the local tribes do not hunt and eat it. Apparently nesting young will sometimes jump out of the nest into the water below to escape predators. They have a sort of hook or claw on their feet that allows them to climb back into the nest tree so it is not a suicidal gesture.
Hoatzin - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoatzin)
A running chain saw is the best deer call there is. ;)
Apparently a harp being played works too.
A deer turned my harp session into a Disney movie - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xd8xq06FCw)
I had a big doe come to a predator call several years ago. She was a couple hundred yards away and I was fixing to go home so I got out my call to see if there might be a coyote in the area. As soon as I blew it she came straight to me. I don't know if she thought it was a fawn in destress or why she came. I was able to watch her the whole time.
Did you know there is a big green species of tree frog in Peru that is used for medicinal and cultural (Magical) purposes? This frog is from 6-11 inches long, looks like a giant version of our small rain frogs you sometimes see on glass doors and windows after a rain.
The local Indian tribes catch the frogs, agitate them which makes them produce a milky looking secretion that the Indians dry and burn a spot on their chest with a red hot coal and rub the frog sweat into the wound. The result is they have visions and supposedly in this state they "see" where the game is to be found. I am told it also temporarily corrects vision problems and other ailments.
On April 7, 2010 while on a private tour up the Amazon River in Peru our guide and crew caught a couple the frogs and tied them out "at the stake" with 4 pegs in the ground and spread eagle. Then they repeatedly tickled the frogs nose with a leaf and he began to sweat a milky fluid all over his back. Our guide scraped the "sweat" off the frog with a flat stick like a popsicle stick. This is what they would use to produce visions and such. They also collect this "sweat", dry it, and sell it to different pharmaceutical companies in the USA who are using it for research purposes.
Once finished they released the frogs unharmed. We were told attempts to "farm" the frogs for repeated milking have failed. Evidently in captivity the frogs are not eating the same diet and they soon stop producing "sweat" with the proper toxicity to be of any value.
https://amazonaid.org/species/giant-waxy-tree-frog/
Rumor has it there's a frog sweat licking cult somewhere in the wilds of W. Virginia.
What rumor you ask? Why, the one I just started 😁.
Tom,
I have "visions" of that too. Every time we have a local school board election they just seem to come out of the woodwork. ;) :D
Did you know most of the meat off ground birds tends to be white meat while birds that fly a lot like migratory birds tend to have mostly all dark meat? Think of birds that walk most of the time like turkeys, quail, grouse, chickens, etc. They have a breast that is white meat. Think of migratory birds like ducks and geese and such where their meat is mostly dark.
I'd love to some of our down under members or others familiar with big ground birds like ostrich and emu and such to chime in and update or correct the above generalization if it is wrong. I don't honestly know which kind of meat they are. I don't ever remember eating either of them which is strange considering some of the other things I have eaten overseas and down south.
Emu is a "red" meat, more similar to beef or lamb.
Meat is red if it contains myoglobin, which is a protein that stores and supplies oxygen for the muscle cells around it. It's especially high in whales and seals, because it can store oxygen while they are underwater, so they can hold their breath much longer.
It also makes sense that it's present in muscles that are built for long long term exertion, like migrating birds. Chicken breast muscles aren't designed for much use at all, so no myoglobin needed. Chicken legs do have some colour, as they actually get some extended use.
Emus on the other hand are mostly "leg" meat, and are able to run fast, and travel long distance, so red meat muscle.
Day late and a dollar short, I remember a wildcrafting camp cook saying that witches "flew" by rubbing the head of toads on the thin skin of their forearms. That is where those protective glands are on the toad.
Ian,
Thanks for the info. Maybe I can re-generalize as "birds that spend most of their lives on the ground but can and sometimes do fly tend to have more white meat while birds that fly a lot such as migratory birds have mostly dark meat and birds that never fly have more red meat." I wonder where that leaves us with penguins? ???
Don,
Whatever you're drinking, please put the bottle or can down immediately and do not imbibe any more. Please surrender your car keys to a trusted friend and do not ask for them back for at least 24 hours. :D
Never tried penguin. :-\ :D
At a guess I'd think they were like the whales and seals, and would want to be able to store oxygen in their muscles to improve their dive time? They are are also pretty energetic swimmers and can cover long distances.
Penguins are actually fascinating birds. The common species here is the Little Blue Penguin. It's a small bird, only about a foot long. They are relatively common, but only come ashore to their nests at night after spending the day out at sea. So you seldom see one. Some places around Wellington they actually nest under peoples houses and road signs warn to look out for them crossing the road.
This is Taylor looking for them at the port in Timaru. They nest there in the boulders that protect the breakwater. It's a public road, and lit up by the port floodlights, so it's a good place to see them. They are used to the lights, port noise and people, so just carry on as usual. They are a protected species, and the locals keep an eye on the area. Wandering dogs are a problem for them. They have ~100 nest spots tagged along the breakwater. But if you walk there in the day, the only clue they are there is a "fishy smell".
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/20200823_191124.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1598173901)
Since we have drifted into food and penguins did you know that only one species of penguin lives in the northern Hemisphere - the Galapagos Penguin which only lives in the Galapagos Islands? The rest live in the Southern Hemisphere. Further did you know most penguins are smaller than most people think? The most well known penguin (Think "Happy Feet") is probably the emperor penguin at over 3' tall and the smallest is the little blue penguin Ian described previously in and around New Zealand. There is a Jackass penguin in and around Capetown South Africa that sounds like a donkey braying.
They pretty much "fly" through the water and eat the fish they catch on the run. They have specially adapted tongues to help hold the slippery, slimy wiggly fish, squid and krill as they catch and swallow them.
As to things that store oxygen, snapping turtles store it. Doing summer beaver control work, I have caught snappers in body-gripping traps that had them held under water until I released them. You put them up on the bank and they seem to be dead. By the time you get the trap reset, that turtle has come back around and starting to crawl away.
KEC,
From my experience with snapping turtles (Mostly Alligator snappers I used to catch and eat in Albany Ga) your snapping turtle may actually have been dead as you thought. He just wasn't smart enough to know it. :D
I've cooked a couple of Common Snapping Turtles, the second try resulted in a good soup. I'm not keen on eating it again as some of them are quite old and can have a lot of accumulated toxins in them. They recomend against eating the fat or eggs. Might stunt my growth.
We caught and ate them regularly in Albany. My wife even started grinding them up and mixing with cheap hamburger for burgers. I never tried to save the fat which was pretty much in clumps rather than in the flesh. I did catch a big one full of eggs one time and my wife made a batch of cookie dough with them and baked them and sent them to school with the kids who enjoyed giving them to friends, teachers and telling them to try their turtle egg brownies. All I caught were alligator snappers.
Alligator snappers can live to be ancient.
Their sunny disposition does not improve with age!
Quite a few years ago I attened a talk given by Ward Stone who was the NY State DECs Wildlife pathologist. He said that a big Common Snapping Turtle in a PCB contaminated area could have enough PCBs in it to make a visible puddle if rendered out. Cured me of wanting to eat it again and I'm not a rabid environmentalist type. Even if you get one from a clean area with no old industrial contamination you may get one that someone brought there and released.
Did you know a 75 lb alligator snapping turtle can bite completely through an 8/0 stainless steel hook? I caught one on a trotline in Albany Ga one time and while trying to land him he got the hook in the corner of his mouth, lunged and snapped and bit the hook right in two! I wrestled him on over into my johnboat then he turned around facing me while I was seeking higher ground. I finally ended up with one foot on top of my 20 hp Johnson outboard and the other on the corner of my boat. He lunged and bit the corner out of my upholstered pedestal seat. I finally got behind him and grabbed him by the shell right behind his head where he could not bite me and I held him there while he lunged and bit at the air trying to get me. I finally got my old motor started and eased out of the slough I was in while he kept snapping. As I entered the main body of the Flint River a skier came by and cut me off with his dragging ski line and I had to shut my motor off to keep from fouling with it. When clear I had to restart my contrary motor. I was not singing high praises to skiers in general if the truth be told. >:(
WV, you have lead a colorful life. I have tried to pick up common snappers by the shell and was amazed at how long their neck can reach out and around and how fast I could let go. I had the best luck by distracting them with a stick and then grabbing them by the base of the tail to pick them up. Be SURE to hold them out away from you. Did you know they can jump? I put one in the back of my stepside pickup years ago thinking that the 2 foot vertical sides would keep it contained. My brother got upset and was worried that it would escape and go to a nearby house of a woman who would surely not want it around. I told him I thought it would be OK and left it unattended for a while. We came back out and, you guessed it, old hook-bill was headed right towards that womans' house.
Yeah KEC I was thinking the same thing. They have incredibly long necks and quite the reach. The claws are impressive also. It is nesting season here and we have a lot of them crossing roads. Twice in the past week I have nearly had accidents coming around a curve and finding a prius stopped in the middle of the road while a lady was 'guiding' one across the road. Just Friday I saw this and there were two fully loaded triaxle dump trailers coming the other way that had to stand on the brakes to avoid flattening the folks in the road 'helping' the turtle. As I told one woman 'That's a huge turtle, nobody is gonna run it over, he'll do fine just let him go and don't distract him.'
Truth is, I did run one over 7 or 8 years ago. I was driving the fire engine on the way to a working structure fire at 5:30 in the morning. I had no option. There was no way I was going to risk rolling a 30,000 pound truck for a turtle, sorry and I was not going to cross the double yellow line on a curve. I was rounding a curve and there he was. I did feel bad. It was a big one and even with that rig's weight I felt it as I went over it. He should have heeded my sirens and yielded. ;D
KEC,
Yes, it has been interesting and I have the aches and scars to prove it. I did know snapping turtles can jump/lunge very quickly and surprisingly far. I kept a short paddle in my boat and would normally tap the turtle on whichever side I wanted him to turn toward (I.e. Away from me! The 75 lb turtle described above ignored the tapping and was very focused on getting a chunk of my anatomy so I had to move. I really seriously thought at one point about going into the water and just letting him have the boat.)
I am told the common snappers are actually more aggressive than Alligator snappers which may be like saying it hurts less to get run over by a tractor trailer than a train. If you get some digits in the mouth of either species you are probably going to lose them or wish you had.
Grabbing them by the shell right behind the head over their neck or by the tail is the only way I have found to hold them and even then his head slides uncomfortably close to your arm! In my comparative anatomy classes at Auburn our professor said you could hurt their backs holding them by the tail. Since I was going to eat them I did not extend much sympathy for their future geriatric ailments.
Tom,
You are right about the claws too. They are wicked and can tear big chunks out of you if they get them into you. Sorry about the mishap but I agree you made the right decision not to avoid the turtle. I had a very dear friend there in Ga who lost a daughter when she swerved to miss a deer. They found her and the dead deer in the ditch. After that he never swerved for any animal. My fear was running over a big alligator at high speed.
They also have very powerful jaws and I routinely found very large river mussels crushed into pieces in their stomach when I'd clean one.
Since we have been talking about snapping turtles (Which are fascinating reptiles!) Did you know supposedly Cajuns used to catch them by wading in the sloughs and bayous and looking for their bubbles? When they spotted some they would walk over to the spot and feel around in the mud with their bare feet until they felt one. Supposedly the turtle would instinctively pull into his shell for protection. The Cajun would feel around with his toes for the ridges on its back to determine the direction the turtle was facing then he would reach down and grab the tail and pull the turtle out of the mud and take him home for dinner.
Apparently they were pretty successful at catching them using this technique - well, except for old Two-Fingers LeBeaux who mis-judged the direction of the head and tail that one time. ::)
Years ago I knew a guy who "noodled" snappers by feeling around under the cut banks of a creek to catch them by hand. I never got a chance to hear him tell the details. He didn't have to worry about rubbing elbows with me while doing that. I used to catch them with a large raccoon cage trap with a chicken drumstick for bait wired to the linkage on the trip pan. They would go in and pull on the drumstick and trip the trap. I would put the trap with the open end in 3-4" of water along the edge of a pond. Snappers were an unprotected species in New York for a long time. Now there's a season with bag limits and the only legal way to take them is to shoot them. You can't legally trap them or catch them by hand. I don't think the DEC people know just how many are out there. I think that they are a big mortality factor for baby ducks and even adult ducks and geese.
KEC,
He won't find me noodling for snapping turtles either. I am well aware of their fishing technique where they lay there with their mouth open and a built in "lure" at the base of their tongue that looks a worm. The fish swims after the lure and the turtle lunges and bites down hard and half a fish floats away while the turtle eats the rest. A friend up here used to help do recovery diving swimming along the lake and river bottoms feeling for drowning victims in water so murky there is basically zero visibility. She stuck her hand into and open snapping turtle mouth, he chomped down and she has not volunteered as a recovery diver since.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hz45zW_US8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hz45zW_US8)
This guy was internet famous a bunch of years ago. Cracks me up!
Cool Hand Luke he ain't!
Did you know the wood under the bark of tulip poplar and basswood and possibly many others is fluted? The next time you cut some tulip poplar go ahead and peel the bark off and you will find instead of a perfectly round log you will find all kinds over little flat spots. I've been cutting poplar lately and this time of year the bark readily peels off.
The log underneath feels like it has been greased. Be careful with that bark! If you happen to step on it when fresh cut you may find yourself looking at your feet over your head and wondering how they got there. ::) :o
You mean like this?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/52103/IMG_20200715_121808753_HDR.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1594863076)
Peeling that log was a bit of a bear.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/52103/IMG_20200714_152509128_HDR.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1594767712)
That stuff is slicker than deer guts on a door knob and I did make the mistake of walking on the bark....once. :D ;D
If you slide a bare hand in there between the bark and tree those little branch nubs are as sharp as any nail
Tom,
Thanks for adding the picture which clearly shows what I described. Here is the tool I use to remove bark when needed. Works pretty good.
https://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-mutt-with-wood-handle-95005.html
Don,
Good point.
Yeah, I used something like that to break the fibers between the wedges, but that log was tough. I have several of those tools, we call them "ice choppers" and they are wider than a bark spud you show. We deal with a lot more ice than bark up this way. I have one at each mill and one in the truck bed for some reason.
Take a chainsaw and run the end of the bar the length of the log cutting just through the bark on a Basswood cut this time of year. A single bit axe to get it started and that bark will come off in one big sheath. Scoring the bark into strips will work well on other trees as well, Red Oak, and even hickory (not Shagbark).
Did you know lions like to stalk their prey in the tall grass on the Savannahs in Africa? Their color blends in well with the yellowish color of the grass and typically the only thing exposed is the tips of their ears which is how hunters, photographers and local herders and tribesmen spot them. It is amazing how difficult it can be to see a whole pride of lions in 1' tall grass as they creep along on their bellies with only the black tips of their round ear sticking up a couple of inches above the top of the grass. They will be within a few feet of an an unsuspecting zebra, wildebeest or impala before it even knows there is any danger around them and often only when it pounces on them.
I have known they were around but I spotted my first fawn of 2022 on the way back from town today. It was down in a big field near a creek with a big doe. I love seeing them out like that.
As to predators stalking prey, I never pass up a chance to watch a predator that does not know I'm watching. I have watched Eastern Coyotes working grassy fields and when they detect a meadow vole they lock onto it and go into stealth stalk mode. Sometimes, they look like a trained pointer dog standing frozen in place.
One of my fondest memories was watching an Irish Setter stalking a grey squirrel on the lawn in front of the library at AU while I was there about mid-70's. I came out of the library and there was a big crowd watching. The setter was as still as a statue. The squirrel would make a couple of hops and start digging in the grass for an acorn or such and the setter would ease one foot ahead and freeze again. If the squirrel turn while the dog was moving the dog froze with the foot lifted in the classic pointing position. The squirrel would look at him but saw no threat. Finally, the dog decided he was close enough and rushed forward to catch the squirrel before it could get up a 1' diameter tree. The squirrel ran a couple of loops around the tree with the dog in hot pursuit. Finally it got enough traction or elevation to run out of reach of the dog but left a mouthful of tail hairs in the dog's mouth. The squirrel ran to the very top of the tree and the dog walked away wagging his tail and a satisfied smile on his face. Half the crowd had been rooting for the dog and half for the squirrel but I think everyone was happy in the end. It was a blast watching the instinct of the dog's breeding at work.
Did you know if you are missing a tool, just blame someone, and it will show up exactly were you left it.
I am not going to say a word about War Eagles, dogs, or squirrels from the Mid-70's. Not a word :).
Danny,
Is that because you can't remember the 70's? :D
:D :D :D.
Did you know a leading cause of death and serious injury to foreign and urban tourists in our national parks is the cell phone with a selfie-stick? It was bad before when tourists would have to hand their instamatic camera to a friend or passerby and say "Would you take a picture of me standing in front of this big agitated bull elk in rut or this mama bison and her calf or mother grisly bear with her 3 cubs" but at least then there was a second party to say "I don't think that's a good idea". Now lone idiots routinely ignore all the posted warnings and walk to to the wild animal, face about a snap a picture they will remember the rest of their life - which may be only a few seconds. ::)
It is an almost daily occurrence to read where someone was gored by a bison or trampled by an elk in Yellowstone or Glacier Park or such. The fact these large animals are used to seeing people around their environment does not mean they are tame but ...
Survival of the Fittest through Natural Selection. Some people are just destined to be "Naturally Selected".
Also called the Darwin Awards for selectively removing people with unfit genes in their brains from the general population. ;)
Did you know the family of birds known as raptors generally includes eagles, owls, hawks and falcons all of whom are predatory birds of prey even those some will scavenge carrion on occasion? Some people even include vultures and condors in the group because they sometimes kill prey although condors are probably more closely related to storks.
A Skeeter hawk is not a raptor. Its a bug. (Dragonfly). :D
Natural selection only works if said culling takes place prior to procreation🥴.
Speaking of vultures, they appear to be the best of all at soaring for long periods without flapping their wings. Seems like they've moved northward-didnt used to see so many.
On vacation in Africa we visited Etosha Game Park in Namibia and our guide pointed out to me at the start of our drive how the vultures were all roosted in a big tree or two in the distance. He said they did that at that time of day because it was cool in the mornings and the winds had not picked up allowing the vultures and hawks and such to soar. They had to fly and use/flap their wings more to stay aloft then. Later in the day the winds would pick up and would do the work for them.
There are also two legged vultures without wings that also hang around and wait for people to give them money. Just drive in Atlanta and stop at a red light in the downtown area.
Quote from: rjwoelk on June 09, 2022, 01:34:23 PMDid you know if you are missing a tool, just blame someone, and it will show up exactly were you left it.
So true. Did you also know, said tool will be found in the last place you look? I make a point of always looking in the last place first. 8)
Of course you find it in the last place you look! Who's gonna keep looking after you found it. :D :D (Sorry - the devil made me say that)
Did you know many predators will bring small live prey to their young to help teach them to hunt and kill their food? Even domestic cats will do this and bring mice, chipmunks, moles, shrews or such to their young. The same is true with wolves, foxes, coyotes, bobcats and larger predators like lions and leopards and such who will bring rabbits or deer or antelope fawns to their young. Often the prey is injured or so exhausted it cannot escape. We sometimes see this and think it is cruel but it is just nature at work.
I always try to look in the last place first but seldom know where that might be. Said missing item usually shows up in my son or daughters work trucks oddly enough.
I confess I have never started a friction fire but I have watched primitive tribes and enactors do it and did you know the basics seem to be a combination of hard and soft wood? The spindle generally is a hardwood and the baseplate is a soft wood. A notch or cup is cut in the plate and the spindle is placed in the notch and spun by hand or with a bow. (A bow seems to work much better as less effort is required to get a harder and faster spin.) Sometimes a little sand is added for more friction.
The spindle is spun generating heat and eventually a coal or ember in the bottom which is then dumped into a tinder bundle of very fine, dry material. Usually you press down on the spindle to help create friction and generate heat. Cedar bark, fiber from palm trees, an old bird nest, etc. is used for tinder. The ember is dropped on the tinder which is loosely closed around it and blow gently through. If you have done everything correctly flames shoot up and you add more small wood and have a campfire.
Very dry wood is pretty much essential for all of this to work. A fire saw is similar only the spindle is pushed rapidly back and forth to generate the heat.
Did you know the longest single arch bridge in the Western Hemisphere is on US Highway 19 crossing the New River near Fayetteville, WV? It was the longest in the world till they built one somewhere in South America China a few years ago.
There is a big welcome center adjacent to the bridge with an overlook to the river and a movie explained how the New River Valley below was formed. The New River is the second oldest river in the world (behind the Nile) and one of the few that flows north. There is a boardwalk down the side of the mountain with several overlooks where people can come and see and photograph the bridge.
Every year in October the state of WV has a big "Bridge Day" event where they close one side of the bridge and set up booths and sell crafts and such. People jump off the bridge and parachute and paraglide to the river below with photographers taking pictures. They used to bungee jump off but I think they stopped that. It is internationally known and my landlord's adventure junkie FIL in Kristiansand Norway told me he had come over and jumped off the bridge a few years before on Bridge Day.
Yesterday my wife and GD #1 & GD #3 went over for a day trip and photo shoot. We walked down the boardwalk and I pointed out different plants and trees to the GDs and I talked to visitors from Minnesota, Virginia, new Jersey, etc. When we came back up at the top of the boardwalk I spotted a Wild Sweet Cherry, what we call a Blackheart Cherry around here locally, that was full of ripe fruit so I stopped and pulled a limb down and started picking and eating the cherries. Of course several other tourists saw this and came over to talk and ask questions. One sad-faced couple from New Jersey saw me and walked over and were dead serious when they said "We have food if you need some." I laughed and declined their kind offer and told them about the cherries and how I figured they were like dessert. They and several others came over and tried and liked them.
If you happen to be passing through WV near Fayetteville be sure to stop at the visitor center there and take a look at the bridge and such. Pick up some brochures and go on over to Badcock State Park nearby and see the old Water Wheel/Grist mill. I think they do demos on Sundays in the summer. Come on down to Talcott and see the John Henry Park and the tunnel John Henry dig for the CSX railroad here in Summers County. Stop by the Tamarack Center/Travel area outside Beckley on I-77/I-64 and see and buy some of the WV crafts and such for there. We try to be sure tourists coming through the State are not over-burdened with excess cash when they leave.
I always thought that South America was in the Western Hemisphere. It sure ain't in the Eastern one.
Danny,
Thanks for the catch. The new longest single arch bridge is actually in China and apparently opened in 2020. One source said South America was in the Southern Hemisphere. Anyway, the most important single arch bridge is in WV.
BTW - it is not but a few miles from the 38th parallel which crosses the state nearby.
You are welcome to personally come fact-check any other comments and observations posted here in this thread. Be sure to bring along a bushel of fresh picked green peanuts and stop in Cordele Ga on the way and bring a truck/trailer load of big fresh watermelons. (I'm okay on grits as we stocked up in Fla/Ala on our trip home the end of April/Early May.) ;) If the water level drops a little we will check out the catfishing.
I don't care where dat bridge is, I/we have crossed it and have also been beneath it. We drove to it from War, WV. move_it
Ironic I would see this today. A firewood customer stopped by today to stock up for a camping trip at nearby Summersville Lake in WV. Its roughly 2.5 hrs from where I'm at and close to the gorge. We have stopped at the New River Gorge a few times on trips south. It is something to see.
A guy who used to log with us would go down in the fall when they let water out of the dam for the whitewater experience. He was a real adrenaline junky whether it was tipping big timber or heading down a high water river on a raft. Miss that guy. (it wasnt the river or the trees that got him)
Lynn,
Well, we were glad to have you and I hope you left plenty of cash along the way. ;) If your GPS routed you from War to Brookhaven MS via Fayetteville WV you probably need to get a new GPS because War is 50 miles or so SW of here and Fayetteville WV is 50 or so miles the opposite direction - neither headed west and south toward Mississippi . :D I hope you got to stop at the Tamarack Center and spend some money there too. ;D You probably passed within 10-15 miles of my house but that was long before I ever heard of something called a Forestry Forum.
One time there was a big full moon coming and my wife got the great idea to go get pictures of the moon coming up behind the bridge so we drove to Fayetteville and walked about two miles down a steep trail, me being the pack mule, to a bare ridge called "Long Point" to be there at sunset. ("Note: To Self - when listening to wife about photo opportunities, check compass first.") She got a beautiful shot at sunset when the bridge turned orange for about one minute. She has won several photo contests with that unique shot. A few minutes later the moon came - right behind us instead of in front where the bridge was. Oops! ::)
Bert,
I think it is around October when they release the extra water and the white water rafting in the New River Gorge there is rated like #6 or #7 in the world as I heard it. It is not for the inexperienced or the faint of heart.
A young lady was a river guide there and she hired my free lance photographer wife to take pictures of her for a brochure she was putting together. My wife had an underwater housing for her camera from her scuba diving days in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia on/in the Red Sea which they figured would work on the rafting trip through the rough water and such. She rode down with them and took pictures including having to park on a beach for an hour or so while a chopper medivacced a guy in another raft out of the gorge when he got hurt. My wife said she had no business being on that trip and would not be taking another.
A few days later they did some posed shots of her here at Sandstone Falls. My son and his best friend were in their late teens and budding photographers and went to help. The lady chose 2 of the staged shots - one from my son and one from his friend. They both told my wife "See, it takes a man to get the best picture of a woman in a bikini." :D
EDIT/ADD-On: Summersville Lake you mention is where my son and daughter did their scuba training there before they came and spent the summer with me in Jeddah the summer they turned 17 & 15. I apologized on the first dive because there in the Red Sea there was construction upstream and they could only see about 25-30 feet. They said "We thought it was great. We were never able to see over 6' before and the water here is 75 degrees instead of 45-50". It is good to keep things in perspective. ;D
No, Fayetteville was not between War and home but that was the route that we took. That War, WV adventure won Wood-Mizer's Personal Best and also the People's Choice Awards :
My Wood-Mizer Story: Lynn Davis - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdlc3y3tvzE)
Lynn,
Thanks for re-posting and the help you and your Mississippi brethren provided during our time of need here. I had read it before. IIRC my son was in the Nat'l Guard and worked in areas near where you guys were. He drove a skid steer cleaning up mud and working at warehouses where donations came in and were distributed.
I sawed 2 days for a guy last year down there about 100 miles from here. I begged him to get someone closer but he could not find them so I agreed and had 2 real good days of sawing big pine lumber with one of the best helpers I ever had - except every time he got a break in the process he'd go smoke a joint. Now I know what burning pot smells like (Smells like a burning stink tree - Tree of Heaven). I think War was about 15 miles off the route down. I hope you guys got to visit Pinnacle Rock there near Bramwell WV. I drove through it on that and a couple of other jobs. It is a beautiful site.
Pinnacle Rock State Park - West Virginia State Parks - West Virginia State Parks (wvstateparks.com) (https://wvstateparks.com/park/pinnacle-rock-state-park/)
Great stories! That's a great area in central WV.
It is only a few miles from the big plot of land the Boy Scouts bought a few years ago and they have held International Jamborees there. I think one day of the year during the Jamboree they close the New River Gorge to other rafters and only let the Boy Scouts run that portion of the river.
I should correct that - I think they refer themselves as Scouts (Although the logo still says Boy Scouts) as they do have girls coming too. I stay confused with that but that is just me.
boy scouts and girl scouts were unrelated, and girl scouts was always more of a club, and like FFA doing all sorts of interests. the BSA started when young boys wanted to join the military after WW1. started in Europe and in USA 1910. sort of paramilitary to get boys ready when old enough. mostly camping and survival. If an Eagle scout you advance two ranks after boot camp.
a skit at camp from a girl group was a song called "I am a boy scout as you can plainly see" and was one of the funniest one done. Some have quit over it, but the girls fit in better than expected.
Yes, Howard, we know you are confused by some of this stuff, but it's OK. :D First off, it is a National Jamboree and it is held every 4 years. The International one bounces around the globe and has been held in many different countries. (Much Like the Olympics.) My Pop went to the one in Norway and I still kick myself for not joining him.
Yes, the Boy Scouts have girls now too and have done so with their Venturing programs (which used to be called Explorers and now may be called something else) for several decades. Now they admit girls into the younger programs which I think is long overdue. For 30 years I saw little sisters at cub and boy scout meetings and events and I thought it was a shame they could not officially join. In my units, all family members were welcome and included and the girls always held their own even if their brothers resented it. ;D We had some great young gals on our camp staffs over the years that turned into very impressive women as did many of the young men.
Jamborees were never my thing. I always preferred time backpacking and on the trails or in camps. The nice thing about Scouting is that it provides a wide range of opportunities and you do have to make choices, you can't ever do it all.
Tom,
Now I am even more confused if this was a "National Jamboree" since I distinctly remember meeting young women from the UK and young men from other European countries in a BK in Beckley who said that was why they were there that week. ???
Yeah, I get that. The BSA, along with Scouting organizations all over the world have exchange Scout programs with each other. This allows older Scouts from different countries to participate in international travel and exchange programs with other countries. Often these Scouts find opportunities serving on staff at National Jamborees. It is good for those Scouts as well as providing exposure to people from different countries for our younger Scouts. Most council summer camps have one or more Scouts from another country working on their staff. It is a growth experience on both sides. I have worked at Summer camps that had staffers from the UK, Sweden, Denmark, and Germany that I can recall. Scouting is pretty much and 'open borders thing' unless the government gets involved. ;D
Did you know that in Norway, and possibly the other Scandinavian countries, school kids are taught some basic survival skills in case they get stranded by an unexpected breakdown or such? They teach them to make a bed or snow cave by stacking stones and lining it with peat moss and such to provide insulation from the cold and make a windbreak and such. People there routinely keep a blanket or two, a small shovel, water, snacks/food, matches/lighter and a simple throw away charcoal grill as a survival kit in case they get stranded overnight or such. Those of us in the north and west where severe snow storms are possible should probably do the same thing and those in desert climates modify to be prepared for the heat. A few simple items can mean the difference between life and death.
I read yesterday where a 67 or so y/o man was the second to be found dead in Death Valley area and they are looking for a third who has been missing several weeks. The man had run out of gas and walked about 3 miles to where they found his body.
The desert is an unforgiving place. If you breakdown, get under cover out of the sun to minimize ,moisture loss, wait till dark and then try to walk out. You can go much further with less suffering that way.
This should go without saying but always carry lots of water(not soda) just in case.
Yes, stay under the shade and as cool as you can but the advice I have always heard was to stay with the vehicle if possible. The guy who died and the one missing had both left their vehicles which were found but not them or at least not before they died. Make yourself as visible as possible. Burning a spare tire or such is one such option. (Don't tell AOC and her other GND idiots I said that. ::)) You have to be alive to pay the fine for air pollution but I can live with that. ;)
On the other side of things if you are stuck in the frozen north. Always carry a bunch of 4-6" household candles and a tin plate or dish. Crack a car window open a bit for fresh air and burn the candles one at a time. Between the candles and body heat you will keep from freezing. If you want to signal for help or more heat, burn the spare tire but away from the vehicle.
Good point with the candles. I think that was what the Noggies used the disposable charcoal grill for but I doubt you could use that in the car like you could a candle. A candle or oil/paraffin/kerosene lamp provides a lot more heat than most people realize. A sleeping bag and a partner is probably a goof idea. :D
No, I had to think about that. Now I'm having visions of being stranded for several days in the desert or the frozen North and the whole time listening to my wife saying "I told you fill up at that last gas station!" ::) I'd probably get out and start walking too. >:( ;D
Maybe you better just take a couple of faithful pooches along instead. Isn't that where the term "Two-dog night" or such came from? ;)
Did you know that multi-flora roses make great wildlife food and cover? When we moved here to WV 32 years ago our place was overgrown with roses and we had lots of cottontails and woodchucks. After several years getting them under control including mowing, chainsaw work, fencing and goats, the rabbits and woodchucks disappeared too.
My guess the two are not related.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 18, 2022, 10:19:48 PMDid you know that multi-flora roses make great wildlife food and cover?
I can sure see the "cover" thing being a factor.
Here in NZ we have an insect called the Giant Weta. It's like an overgrown cricket (about 3x the weight of a mouse). But introduced predators have decimated them, and they are very rare. Anyway, Conservation Dept discovered a bunch of them living in the gorse bushes on abandoned farmland. Gorse is a noxious introduced weed here (because it grows about 100X faster then it did back in Scotland). But it also gave the Weta a safe hiding spot from birds and rats, so they were thriving in this big gorse patch.
DOC ended up having to buy (and maintain) this big gorse patch to protect the bugs. The irony is how much money they have to put into weed control in other areas.
The Giant Weta is a different species to the smaller common tree weta, those are still common as, even here in town. They do quite well in suburban gardens, and have enough attitude to fight off most predators. Cats will often catch them, but then aren't sure what to do with a mouse size ball of spiky kicking legs. So they usually leave them beside the bed for Lil to find. :D
Years ago the New York State Conservation Dept. ( now the NYS Dept of Environmental Conservvation or DEC) would offer plants to plant for wildlife (they still do). They offered, amoung other plants, Multiflora Rose. Now it is on the list of invasive species. Many invasive species are utilized by many birds and animals.
Quote from: beenthere on June 18, 2022, 10:33:51 PMMy guess the two are not related.
Why? Before they had plenty of places to duck under cover and dodge predators and avoid overhead attacks from hawks and owls and such. Also the leaves and fruit were a significant food source for them. They both almost immediately disappeared when the roses/cover was removed. Other places nearby with such cover still had them in large numbers.
Did you know one of the major factors involved in Wildlife Management is the management of the habitat? You can bring in/stock any wildlife species you want to raise but if the plant and habitat conditions are not right, it will not thrive. Sometimes you can assist artificially for a time by building and providing nest boxes to substitute for over mature trees with natural cavities for birds or animals that need such or bring in feed for replacement of plants that are not there but such measure are temporary and will ultimately fail unless continued forever.
A successful plan includes looking at the habitat and encouraging wildlife who need and use what is available or modifying the habitat to include what they need. Burning keeps an early seral stage with lots of annual grasses and such for quail and rabbits so if there is nesting and cover patches it may help. I understand the introduction of cheatgrass out west helped the Hungarian partridge thrive. Both were introduced species for the area but they went hand in hand.
If we have an invasive species we can look for an animal that uses it but take extreme care not to bring one that damages or replaces desirable native species. When we visited Yellowstone we found the fishermen were told to keep or kill any rainbow trout they caught because they were detrimental to the native brown trout.
In 2005, I bought my property that had been my family's farmland since 1899. I immediately planted Pine trees on all of the open pasture land and very soon it was covered with blackberry vines, etc. The rabbit population exploded. As the Pine canopy closed the blackberry vines died out so the rabbits had no cover and they disappeared. I hate it because I love to eat rabbit.
Lynn,
Yes and if you bushogged or burned off the pines to keep the understory low you'd encourage quail and rabbits. Ideally something like mowing every other row every 2-3 years would be perfect to keep new growth coming and cover nearby and also to keep the plants small enough you could still get a tractor in.
Think about old pastures where the livestock kept trails and certain areas open. Fencerows, wet areas, brush piles, fallen treetops, etc. provided cover which was great for wildlife.
Military bases burn regularly to keep the understory low and it encourages things like quail and rabbits. The military use ordnance and flares and such and things are going to burn so they have to keep the fires low by reducing the fuel at opportune times. Areas that are wet and never burn help provide the cover area for deer and some predators and such.
Also where there was lots of livestock deer hunting and such could be easier because the deer were not as alarmed by large animal/human movement and breaking sticks and other such noises were common. In fact, you could ride a horse or mule right up to a deer. How many times have you ridden on your tractor right up to deer or turkeys and they were not alarmed?
I did not think that brown trout were native to the US.
They aren't. They were brought from Europe hundreds of years ago.
Since Lynn mentioned how good they are to eat (and Lapin was on the menu of most cafes in Cameroon in West Africa) have you ever hunted rabbits? I can't confirm hunting snowshoe hares or Jack Rabbits out west since I have never hunted them but those of you who have please chime in. Where I grew up in N. Fla and other parts of the south we had cottontails and swamp rabbits (Often called Cane cutters). The swamp or marsh rabbits were much bigger than the cottontail and the difference was sort of like comparing shooting grey/cat squirrels vs Fox squirrels.
As expected swamp rabbits preferred low lying damp areas such as along the creek bottoms. Cottontails lived around open areas such as planted fields and pastures especially in the blackberry thickets and weedy/brushy fence rows. From my experience the swamp rabbit seemed to be more active in the day time than the cottontail but that is not science - just opinion and personal observation. Both could be hunted easily with a pack of dogs.
The most popular (and most effective) method of hunting rabbits was with dogs. Usually beagles but small mixed breeds such as dachshunds and terriers also were used if that was what you had and they had the instinct. Small dogs were preferred because of the tight, low areas in the briers and brushpiles where the rabbits hid and the dogs needed to go in and root them out. The larger the pack of dogs the more exciting the rabbit hunt in most cases. A single beagle could push a rabbit past you but if you had 5-6 good ones you'd know what it felt like to be sitting in the middle of a pinball machine with rabbits going everywhere. Shotguns with small shot were usually preferred. It did not take a heavy shot to kill or break a rabbits leg and the dogs quickly found and injured ones. Also they could be a fast moving target in tight spaces. Surprisingly a .22 rifle or even pistol could be effective because while the rabbit being chased was a fast moving bouncing zigzag, there were often others who would sit motionless like a deer fawn hiding and sitting head shots from 3-4 ft ranges were common. We sometimes let the kids hunt with shotguns and the adults used rifles where the rabbits were thick.
In many cases the dog would jump a rabbit and the others would line up behind him nose to tail chasing it. We had one old dog who could not keep up and he'd go ahead and wait in ambush - and occasionally he'd catch a rabbit the others ran past him. I have seen hawks join in and sit in nearby trees on a low limb waiting for their chance to catch a distracted rabbit in the open. In some cases multiple races would be going on with each dog chasing a different rabbit and causing the others to be moving around too. That's when it really got exciting.
If you did not have dogs you could try brush busting and walking into the thick weeds and jumping on top of treetops and brush piles and hope to scare a rabbit out where you could see and shoot him. This is pretty low percentage hunting because it is amazing how tight they will hold and not move and how canny they are about only moving when you are out of position and off balance at the same time. Still if you are returning from squirrel hunting or such and see and pass a likely brush pile it is worth a try. It works better with a youth and an old timer parent or grandpa to act as the dog and the kid as the shooter and you still make great memories even if you end up eating more bologna.
Another little used technique (at least for me) was still hunting where you went to a likely area at sunrise or sunset or during a drizzly rainy day and sat and watched hoping to spot a rabbit moving around you could ambush it but rabbits are hard to see and do not move much during the daylight hours.
It used to be common to be walking across a very clear pasture with small clumps of cow patties with a weed or brier sticking up and suddenly have a rabbit would jump out from under your feet and bounce hither and yon as he escaped and he did escape many more times than he got shot. I wonder how many I walked past that simply did not even move and I walked right past him? (A covey of quail used to do that from time to time and I'd be trying to bat them out of the air with my gun barrel and can't honestly remember actually getting to shoot one down even though I tried.)
When growing up in Fla there was no season or limit on rabbits as I remember. When we'd have a drizzly day I'd grab my beagle and several mixed breeds and go hunting rabbits. I found in the day time in the rain I seemed to stir up more swamp rabbits so I assume they were more active then while the cottontails were more active at night.
From what I have seen on TV and read, people hunting with trained hawks and falcons generally used a flushing dog to scare the rabbit out of the brush where the raptor could catch him.
In the past I have "heard" people used walk or drive around planted fields at night and spotlight rabbits and shoot them. You will never see but one red eye on a rabbit at night. As the deer population increased people's tolerance and that of the local possum sheriff greatly diminished and this is not legal or recommended.
I used to carry a folded wrist rocket slingshot with a handle full of #1 buckshot in my pocket when stalking deer because when doing so I'd often have a big swamp rabbit jump up and stop and sit there 6' away. I never killed one that way but it was a great plan and way cheaper and less disruptive to the deer hunting than shooting their heads off with my 30-06. Also I figured I might use the slingshot to turn a buck past me for a shot in the right circumstances. Again, a great plan in theory even if it never panned out. (It was better than the time I put on a pair of hip waders and waded down the creek trying to stalk deer.)
Anyway, if you some great rabbit hunting tales please share them with us here.
Quote from: K-Guy on June 21, 2022, 08:00:28 AM
They aren't. They were brought from Europe hundreds of years ago.
Boy I can't get anything past your guys can I? Maybe it was the rare Yellowstone Darter or carp they were trying to protect. :D I just know the fishermen told me they were instructed to not return the rainbow trout they caught. I was not fishing. I was just trying to keep myself and my wife from getting gored by bison, trampled by rutting elk or eaten by bears and in that respect I was successful and lived to tell about it.
When I was a kid growing up on the farm, an old guy drove up to the farm one day and told my Daddy (nicknamed Buster), "Mr. Buster, eyes got a rabbit bedded but I sho' don't have no shotgun shells to shoot him. Could you sell me a shotgun shell for a dime? I sho' do need me a shell as I don't have none. I sho' would preciate it." My Daddy went into the house and came out with a 12 gauge shotgun shell. I always wondered if he got that rabbit.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 21, 2022, 08:36:03 AMBoy I can't get anything past your guys can I
It's not me but when Admin types demand answers somebody better answer quick. Blame it on Danny, Howard!! smiley_jester
Danny,
Our family tale is even funnier. During the depression a road gang of convicts were were on the road in front of my grandparents house. One of the convicts came to the door, knocked and when Grandma came to the door he told her he had seen a rabbit run into a brush pile where they were working and if she would loan him a gun and a shell he'd shoot and clean it for her. ::) Being the trusting soul she was, she did and he did go shoot the rabbit and brought it and the gun back, returned the gun, cleaned the rabbit and gave it to her then went back to his regular duties. ;D When Grandpa got home to a nice dinner of fresh rabbit he asked where she got it from and she told him. He was pretty alarmed and told her not to ever do that again. >:(
I used to see the Road Crew Convicts working picking up trash and stuff but I don't see that anymore. There was always a guard with a shotgun watching over them. I guess the rabbits are relieved.
Yeah I have not seen a road gang since I was a kid. Dad said back when he was a kid in the Depression and such many on the road gang were not bad people. They had just gotten crossways with the law in some small way. I also understand the guards knew many of the people in their charge were not really bad folks and obviously did not watch them as close as the ones I saw who were always working in small, tight groups. I can't remember if any I saw were true chain gangs in shackles and chains and such. As I remember many volunteered to be on the chain gang because they got to work outside and I think they earned a little spending money. Only the more trustworthy member would even be allowed such work. The real hardcore criminals were never allowed out of the prison walls/fences.
Atmore Ala was a big prison farm about 20-30 miles from my home and you'd see prisoners driving tractors and working with no guard in sight so those certainly were trustees. At one point the prison was pretty self sufficient growing all their own food, beef, milk, chicken, eggs, and had shops making furniture and such.
I believe that the fish they want to protect around Yellowstone were probably Cutthroat Trout.
I was the kid on the brushpile and my father did the shooting.. Now I just box trap them. Had over 60 a couple years ago. They are on a down cycle the last 2 years.
Well, there must not be many rabbit hunters on this forum or they are all busy RV'ing or sawing lumber or something since they have not chimed in.
Further to Trapper's comment about trapping rabbits I'll discuss that a bit and hopefully he will chime in and correct or update the comments as I am sure he is a better and more experienced rabbit trapper than I will ever be.
Did you know simple wooden boxes and even hollow logs have been used for years to trap rabbits and other small animals? There are many designs and you can look on line to see the one you like best.
The basic design on nearly all is a gravity fed door held up by a a trip stick or connected to a pedal with a string that releases the door when bumped or stepped on by the prey. The weight of the door causes it to drop and hold he animal inside. Newer metal traps typically use a spring to close the door but in other respects the design has not changed a lot.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_2116~0.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1655902343)
You start with a long box sized for the prey you are after from a chipmunk to a bobcat or bigger if you like.
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The ones I build have a counter balance with a forked stick as a balance point with a stick holding up a the door. The other end of the stick is tied to a trigger stick with a notch cut into it as shown here. Pulling down on the back of the stick raises the door which is guided by rails so it drops straight down. The trigger stick is fed/pushed down through a hole bored in the top of the trap pulling the door up. The notch in the stick is placed over the side of the hole. The trigger stick is pushed down into the trap and can have bait on the end or just be placed so the animal walking will bump it and cause it to slip out of the notch and the weight of the door causes it to fall. A piece of apple is commonly used to trap rabbits but meat or fish could be used to catch coons or possums or such. A nut can be used for squirrels.
The old boxes I saw as a kid had a solid wooden end. I use half inch square hardware cloth so the animal can see through it. Some animals such as squirrels are more reluctant to go into a closed box than an apparently open one - plus I can see inside to determine if it is rubberbutt or skunk. (This is always a good thing to know!)
I always heard if you caught a possum in a trap a rabbit would never go back in it unless it were smoked to remove the smell. Some people suspended the box over a smoky fire. Other simply packed a handful of dry leaves or pine straw inside and lit it for a flash burn to stink up the inside.
I have read of but never built box traps with a treadle or pedal connected to a string holding up the door. The animal stepped on the pad and the string released or pulled a pin out of the door releasing it.
I had coons getting on my porch stealing Sampson's dog food and they had figured how to open the door and get out of my metal traps so I built the one above and caught them in it. Some finally figured how to open the door so I made a lock out of a bent wire. When the door shut it bent in slightly and slid past the bar on top but when lifted it blocked the animal raising it.
I'd love to see some of Trapper's traps and hear his tales on how he uses them.
Building a simple box trap out of scrap lumber with your son/daughter or grandkids is a great way to build memories with the kids. Simple 1X4s for catching a chimpmunk or 1X8s and 1X10s to catch a nefarious coon can be used.
The first one I ever built was in Jeddah,Saudi Arabia to catch the feral cats getting into our flowers. I used sardines for bait and had a heavy gunny sack I'd place in front and open the door. The cats would jump into the sack, I'd tie it shut and relocate them to a trash dumpster on the way to work every morning. All worked well till I had a particularly wicked Tom cat slice that bag open like he had razor blades for claws. Fortunately he was not in the trunk of my car at the time.
I built rabbit box traps with the trigger stick just like yours.
Yes - but did you catch any rabbits? :D
I have never used one for rabbits - just cats, coons, possums and squirrels. Did you use apples for bait? Did you catch cottontails or marsh rabbits?
There is no reason they would not work for a grizzly bear if you had a big enough and strong enough box. I am not going to be the one holding the tater sack in front for him to jump out into though! ;D
We had a neighbor who kept losing young goats. He finally put a chicken in wire cage in the pasture with steel traps all around it. I think he caught a fox or two and several possums or coons then finally he caught a 19 lb bobcat and after that he quit losing goats.
The trap I use has a door on hinges and a screen door spring to close and hold it shut.the pic need to be rotated 90 degree to right they show trap open closed and the trigger _ baitstick on yellow rototiller the trigger is a screw on the baitstick and a small nail on the st
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15228/20220622_142348.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1655926549)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15228/20220622_142320~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1655926529)
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stick that holds the door open
I caught a whack of them, but mainly in my early years. Now that I am old and more mellow, I just like to see them when we ride around the firebreaks on the John Deere gator with my beagle Sadie. She loves to watch them. I don't let her chase them because my wife sees Sadie as a child, not a dog. Sadie gets all the special treatment :).
A fella might want to check the fish and game regulations. You can hunt rabbits in New York, but not trap them for food. Many times the best bait for cage trapping is no bait at all. Use a double door wire mesh trap and place it in the target animals' line of travel. Bait oftentimes just attracts non-target animals. Cottontail Rabbit numbers are not what they once were due to less brushland habitat and more mature forest. Numerous other animals also are best caught without bait.
We used those same type of traps, but preferred shotgun. More productive, if hazardous to the teeth.
I rarely used bait. The rabbits would check out the traps as they looked like good places to hide out.
For today I have a "Do you know" question for you guys.
Do you know if a long bodied, short legged dog like a Dachshund or possibly a basset will curl up when they sleep? Most dogs, coyotes, wolves and foxes will curl into a tight ball to sleep and often cover their nose in cold weather. We have been dog-sitting my son's "Retarded" Dachshund mix and we have noticed he never curls up. He just sprawls out flat and plops down on his belly. Thinking back on the several Dachshunds and mixes we had I do not remember if they curled up either. Maybe they physically cannot do so?
If you have one of those bandy-legged canines please watch him and let me know if he curls up like other dogs.
Inquiring minds need to know these things.
My low slung pocket beagle is a curler.
Yeah but he is basically just a cut down version of a hound dog with legs and back/length still proportional. My rat terrier is very much a curler but I can't remember seeing a really short legged, long backed dog like a Dachshund curling.
Okay, back to traps.
Did you know a common trap used for birds and some small game was basically a wire box with a wire floor with a hole several inches in diameter in the center? A tunnel several inches deep was dug under the trap from the outside to the hole in the center. Bait was placed in the tunnel and around the edge of the trap inside it. The birds or animal would simply walk under the trap in the tunnel and come out into the trap through the hole then get excited and run around the edge inside and were not smart enough to go back to the middle and back down the tunnel. Often a rabbit or squirrel would actually jump and move the trap off tunnel so they could not go out it anyway.
In a survival situation a similar trap could be made with small sticks or vines similar to making a rough basket and turning it upside down over the tunnel dug which was covered with a board or piece of wide bark.
Check and comply with your local hunting and trapping regulations before use of use of such traps.
I caught a whole covey of quail that way with a trap like that back in my more youthful days. I did not check at the time with any regulations and highly suspect that at the time I did not comply with any such details :) :). I am subsequently reformed.
Danny,
I have done much the same and seen them lift the trap off the ground when they all flew at once. I too have joined the truly reformed but people should know these things for survival emergencies should they every crash land in a remote area and end up staying there a few months.
Besides, some of the younger members may become Game Biologists and need to know how to use such to trap and tag game animals and birds for scientific reasons.
I've been told that you can catch ringneck pheasants with a piece of 6" stove pipe with a cap on one one end and some seed, story goes that they can't back up once in the pipe, apparently you leave a hole in the end cap so the pheasant can stick his head out.
They don't call them bird brains for nothing.
I'm still waiting for more input on the Dachshund curling up or not but for another one: Do you know if birds are raised by anyone other than their parents? I have a box with 5 baby bluebirds and I am pretty certain I am seeing more than 2 adults feeding them. I know I should do a more scientific study to confirm exactly which ones are going in and out but I suspect older siblings from an earlier clutch are also helping raise the brood. I remember previously when they'd raise a second clutch when I'd see 3-4 birds hanging around the box and I thought they were all going and coming so the older siblings seem to be helping to raise their baby brothers and sisters.
BTW - when placing a bluebird box it is a good idea to place it in an area with short grass, such as a lawn, and with a nearby overhanging limb or utility wire as a perch. When building a nest or raising a clutch of baby birds my observations have been the adults like to fly up and light nearby and observe the box for a little while, then they fly down to it. I do not put a peg on the front of my boxes as I understand predator birds like blue jays and such light on the perch and raid the box for the eggs or baby birds. In nature it is unlikely an old woodpecker den used by bluebirds would have a handy perch at the entrance.
I love to watch the birds fly down light momentarily at the entrance with their bright blue back showing then scoot inside to feed the babies. When they leave they also light on the nearby limb or wire then fly off to look for another meal or more nest material.
Young bluebirds are known to help the adults feed a second or third brood. Boxes for bluebirds should not be in the shade or too close to thick cover to avoid House Wrens which will trash others birds' eggs. And try to avoid areas with House Sparrows; they will kill nestling and adult bluebirds and Tree Swallows. A male House Sparrow killed baby Tree Swallows in 2 of my boxes recently. Bluebirds like lots of overhead perches to keep watch on their nest. And they get insects by spotting them from a perch and dropping down to the ground to get them. Short grass or barren ground is conducive to this. When cutting firewood I sometimes cut a hollow log full of black rotten wood that has big insect larvae in it. Or I may debark wood that has been down for a while with larvae under the bark. I have gathered up these larvae (some are huge) and tossed them on a bare spot on the ground near a bluebird nest with babies. Those sharp-eyed birds immediately start scarfing and feeding them to the babies. Bluebirds also are parasitized by blowfly larvae that attach to the feet and wings of nestlings. Those larvae hide in the bottom of the nest. I have removed them from the nest and tossed them on the ground and the bluebirds scarf them up too, giving the baby birds back the nutrients that were stolen from them. Those huge larvae are good fish bait too; though labor intensive to collect.
The back of our house is mostly glass and in daylight it is a mirror. Daily birds will leave the feeders and fly into the mirror, occasionally have to pick them up and place them out of reach of the feral cats that I have not managed to "relocate". In my youth Missouri we would have quail fly into the windows, down here fire ants have eliminated quail. We used to set out line traps in my youthful days, fishing line with a loop in the rabbit runs. I think only the dumb ones were caught this way, but gave us something to do on cold winter days.
Texas Ranger, You could try a couple things to reduce bird window strikes. Tossing some soapy water on the outside will reduce the mirror effect. Hang some netting over the outside. Some suggest putting a hawk-shaped sihlouette (sp) on the window. Researchers estimate that millions of bird are killed in window strikes every year. Many birds, including warblers, migrate at night and are attracted to city lights. They end up flying at full speed into the big windows of tall buildings. Years ago at a TV and microwave tower near my home, someone found dead birds on the ground that had collided with the tower and guy cables. He picked up 1,100 birds and went back a couple days later and found ~800 more. When they stopped using the microwave technology the problem stopped. Something about it attracted the birds. I went there with a friend and saw it for myself, unsettling.
KEC,
Further to your tower remark the head of the wildlife department at AU when I went there had done his doctoral thesis on "Wild Dogs in Alabama". While doing some research for a wildlife class I was thumbing through the Journal of Wildlife Management and I found and read his thesis there. As I remember his conclusions were wild dogs were no longer able to totally survive on their own and required at least periodic supplemental feeding from other sources. I think he found a county dump was a source for one group of dogs but another lived near a TV or Radio tower with long guy wires and a significant number of birds flew into the guy wires and killed themselves or broke their wings and the dogs were feeding on them too.
You look on the sidewalk near the big towers in big cities and see dead song birds.
It's a real shame. Hopefully someone is finding ways to reduce the carnage.
Did you know an atlatl is a primitive tool used by tribes from almost every continent for hunting and protection? It is a spear thrower which basically extends the length of the throwers arm allowing them to throw a lighter spear or dart much longer distances and with greater force than is possible without it. I know various American Indians as well as several African tribes and the Australian Aborigines used them. I understand they were typically made from wood or bone and properly measured probably were tailored to the length of the user's forearm. Some even use some counter weight for balance and extra force.
I have not tried making or using one but it could well be an untapped market many wood workers and outdoorsmen here on the FF are missing. I bet if I made and took several to my next flea market trip some WV redneck would have to have them for carp fishing or deer hunting.
Might be a good project for the boy scouts out in Kansas too if there are not too many liability issues (such as using scoutmasters as moving targets). ;)
If I remember correctly, it wasn't that many years ago that, at least in one state, it was legal to hunt deer with that weapon. Maybe PA ?
Anyone who hunts with an atlatl is pretty hardcore, just saying...............We all look for different challenges. Hunting with an atlatl is not one for me :). I like to eat regularly :D.
Missouri is one of three states that allow hunting with an atlatl. I'm not sure how many deer and turkey have been taken with the weapon in MO, but I'd wager its not many. Nebraska and Alabama are the other two states.
I've not hunted with an Alati, but I've gigged a variety of creatures with store bought and homemade gigs. Some of these include frogs, rats, gators (up to over 8'), moccasins, stingrays, and a variety of fish. One of my heavier gigs was made out of 60d nails with barbs fashioned on the points. The gig was attached to a 10' section of EMT.
My best ever gig shot was in Palmasola Bay, between Bradenton and Anna Maria Island. A friend and I were fishing in a shark tournament, and we were getting stingrays for chum and bait. Over the course of the morning, we had gigged probably 15-20 good sized rays (20-30" span) and then we saw a big one that was roughly 4' across the wings. Every time we would get just about close enough to thrust the gig and drive it through the ray into the sandy bottom, the ray would scoot off. After pursuing this thing for way too long, I heaved the gig, which was attached to 12-14' heavy bamboo pole, through the air like a javelin. The gig hit its mark. The ray swam off with our gig and the red electrical tap we had wrapped around the end helped us keep an eye on it as the ray swam all over the shallows of the bay. We eventually got close enough to grab the pole and gaff the ray. The ray gigging was more adventurous than the shark tournament.
I have heard that circular chunks cut out of ray wings have been sold by unscrupulous seafood purveyors as "sea scallops".
Danny,
I had heard the same thing about the sting ray wings but really do not care which if they taste the same.
I never tried the flounder gigging. I gigged a few suckers in the Spring when they'd be running in the local creeks and I used to be a world class frog gigger. My frog gig was about 3" square with a point in each corner and one in the middle. I'd use a bamboo gig pole 2' longer than my boat. I hunted them on the river where they were used to outboard motor noises and I'd blind them with a 6 volt light hooked to the battery borrowed from the old Avery tractor. I'd just point the boat at them and idle up to them till my gig was within 6" then give a little short jab and he was mine. The main thing was to never move the light or get anything between it and the frogs eyes or he'd jump. I also gigged one big water snake and immediately realized that was not a good idea as he was not happy and he was not easy to get off.
I had heard people talking about gigging flounders and shuffling in the sand to make them move or whatever then they'd spot one and gig it only to find they had just gigged themselves in the foot.
I used to spear fish a lot in the Red Sea when I was working a project there in Jeddah. I used a compressed air spear pistol with a 12" pot metal spear at night and a long band gun during the day when the shots were much longer. At night it was just like gigging frogs.
My uncle (fishing captain) would always order scallops when travelling just so he could trip the restaurant up on the fake ones, more than once he ended up with the chef at his table educating them on how to tell the difference.
The price difference might make you feel ripped off even if they tasted the same, we got some local caught ones for seafood chowder a few weeks ago, it worked out to around $1.00 each @ around 1¼" size.
The "grain" in the scallops will be vertical, just like cutting log cookies. I have been told that the fake ones the grain is usually horizontal like a board.
The same fishing captain uncle went to a red lobster in Texas once, when he sat down at the table there were pictures of fishing boats on the wall, the picture right next to him was a picture of the boat he was captain of here in SW Nova Scotia.
He told the waitress but said he doesn't think the waitress ever believed him.
Did you know circle hooks tend to catch fish in the jaw/lip instead of deeper in the gut? I don't understand the rationale but several years I changed from J style hooks to circle hooks and started catching more fish and catching them in the lip where they are easier to remove and live longer.
During todays catch 2 small flatheads actually swallowed the hook but everything over about 5 lbs were hooked in the lip. I don't know why the smaller fish swallowed it while the bigger ones did not.
Did you know the secret to properly drying bamboo poles for fishing poles, gig pole or push poles is to put it in a place out of the sun to dry? People use to store them in the crawl space under their house or in the rafters of their barn or such. I think the commercial fishing poles sold at most southern bait shops were dried with a torch as they usually has scorch marks on them. Bamboo left to dry in the sun typically cracks very badly.
Bamboo is a very handy plant useful for many projects but it can get away from you and be a real problem to control.
Bamboo is very hard, flooring is even made from it, but bamboo is not wood, it is a grass :). Bamboo does not have a cambium which produces xylem on the inside (water conducting wood) and bark on the outside. It is actually a culm which is the hollow stem of a grass.
I saw bamboo used for flooring in Indian villages the Amazon and I think I saw it in parts of Asia as I remember. Stalks of bamboo were scored about 1" apart so it would lay flat. It was very strong and very springy with lots of bounce. It was very comfortable to walk on.
Did you know bananas only bear one stalk of fruit? After that the plant is cut down and a sucker off the root or main plant is allowed to grow into the next plant. The ones I saw growing commercially in Cameroon were tied off with nylon cord like guy wires on a utility pole. Also when nearly mature a clear plastic bag similar to a dry cleaning bag is placed over the fruit stalk to keep the fruit growing down instead of horizontal.
Did you know there is an ice cream tree? The Inga edulis is a tree that grows in the Amazon region that has long beans (like nearly 3' long and over 1" in diameter) that grows on trees and is nicknamed the Ice Cream plant. Inside the bean pod is a white cottony fluff surrounding the beans which is chewed and are sweet and taste like sugar water. Some people describe it as a vanilla taste.
Our guide on a trip down the Napo River on 19 December 2008 stopped at a local Indian village had his 16 year old BIL who was traveling with us climb a tree and pick several of the pods which he split open and we chewed the pulp. I see in my journal I described it as something like a thin sugar cane taste.
Did you know in the Amazon there is a big ant called a bullet ant because the bite hurts like the strike of a bullet? They are very common on all the trees and bushes in the jungle. If you watch any of the survival type reality shows on TV you have probably seen the contestants get bitten or warn their partner about them.
Our guide pointed them out and warned us about them when we did a trip from the Napo River in Ecuador and Peru in December 2008. Fortunately, I cannot personally attest if the description is right. I am a very trusting person and when a knowledgeable person from the region gives me such a warning I tend to believe them. (Now the snake head roasting on stick over a slow fire in the pygmy village in Cameroon for snake bite cure maybe not so much. ::))
Did you know the Gaboon Viper is the largest viper in Africa? It can grow to 6' long, can weigh up to 45 lbs and its head can be up to 6" wide. (WOW!) It also has the longest fangs of any viper at up to 2" long. Its color pattern is similar to our copperhead only it has lighter and darker color and less brown than a copperhead. It is very venomous but fortunately it is not particularly aggressive. It hides in the leaf matter in jungle type terrain and ambushes unwary prey getting too close.
Did you know that while crawfish (Crayfish to some?) are a very popular food for most freshwater fish and I have found lots of them in the guts of large bass, catfish, etc. I have found them to be very poor bait on a rod or set lines? I assume the fish are scared of the large claws. I have even removed the big front pincers hoping the fish would think them helpless and attack them with little change in the effectiveness. A preferred bait is a softshell which is a phase when the crawfish has just molted and is very weak and readily attacked by his normal predators. I don't know how the fish can detect the difference between a hardshell and a softshell crawfish. Bait shops sometimes take hardshell crawfish and keep them in tanks feeding them oatmeal and such to make them grow which in turn makes them molt. As I have discussed earlier I have had very good luck using small crawfish about 1" long as every fish out there seems ready to attack them but if I have larger ones to use I pull the tail off and use the meat inside as bait. I have had some success with that especially when using it on a small jig spinner for bream and crappie. I just put a chunk of crawfish tail meat on the hook of the jig and the spinner attracts them and the meat smell seals the deal.
Did you know that eelskin is made into leather and is very popular in Korea? I assume they must catch and eat a lot of eels there. I came home via Osan in December 1985 and the local markets were full of very attractive leather good made from eelskin which was very soft, buttery feeling leather. Shoes, belt, purses, wallets and I think I even saw coats on display. The eelskin did not seem to be over 4-5 inches wide so it was sewed together to make the larger pieces. The most popular colors were black and maroon. I did not buy any so I cannot verify how well it actually holds up.
I did not see the tanning process but would love to watch it. Eels are easy to skin sort of like pulling a sock off leaving a tube. I would think would be easy to reverse on a stretching form just like casing a coon or otter or such. I don't know if they salted the hide or what other chemicals were used to tan it.
I also have a child's blowgun I brought back from Ecuador that is covered in eelskin. The agriculture dog at the airport alerted on it but once the inspector's saw what he'd found they cleared it with no issue.
It is a wonder that you did not get arrested for carrying a concealed weapon.
Danny,
No problem. I had met my wife for a vacation there and I was returning to Norway while she was coming back to the US. The blowgun was in her bag. :D
It was 1985. :)
Doc,
I missed something there about 1985. ???
Actually it was December 29, 2008 according to my journal:
Becky got up on Monday and returned to the airport. After she got her bags checked she was called by Security to open a bag which the dogs had alerted to. She said for some reason the Golden Retriever alerted on my blowgun. They took it out and checked the darts with some chemicals and decided everything was okay. She said she was afraid someone had stuck some drugs or something in our bags but everything was okay.
We had both loaded to leave on Sunday 28 December but there was a problem with her plane so they unloaded and put her up in a nearby hotel for the night and flew her the next day. I think on Sunday when she first tried to leave the dogs did not alert on the blowgun so I don't know why they did the next day. They did check the darts to make sure there was no poison on them. My flight was later than hers but I did not know she had been delayed till the next day when I called from Norway.
the beginning of the post said 1985. did not know this was a later trip. things have gotten worse, but esp after 9-11-01.
Sorry, Doc. Separate parts of the post. 1985 was when I was talking about eelskin leather products in Korea. I was still in USMC and returned home from Okinawa via Korea. I got out of the Corps in 1989 and started my new career with more overseas travel and such. The trip to the Amazon and eelskin covered blowgun was in 2008.
Did you know deer are excellent swimmers? I think their hair is filled with air which makes it a popular fly making material. Several years ago I spotted what I thought was a goose swimming in the middle of the lake where it is 1/4 mile or more wide. When I got to it I found a whitetail doe swimming about halfway across at the wide part of the lake. She was floating very high in the water. I and another boat followed her to the other shore to make sure she could make it but she finished in fine shape. Late that summer in almost the same spot my mom was fishing with me and we found a spotted fawn swimming across and we did the same thing. In both cases I had a rope ready to toss over them to tow them if needed but both of them made it across in good shape then trotted off. I assume coyotes or dogs or something chased the fawn into the lake. I did not see her mom and I'd bet she never saw her again either.
Knew that.
But they don't do ice very well. Front legs splay out and it causes injury.
The only time I saw our dog take deer was in snow. He was too slow on dry ground but once it was deep enough that he floated on top and they punched through, he had the upper hand and knew it.
BT,
I have seen deer here on ice and yes it is a problem for them. Pavement can be nearly as bad and I have seen many fall when they got excited and scrambled on a macadam surface.
We got home from a trip to town half an hour ago and spotted a young doe with her spotted fawn in the creek about 2.5 mile downstream from us. It would have made a great photo but my wife had left her camera at home.
I think that deer winter coats have hollow hairs. I'd guess that in summer or winter that they would get a floatation benefit from air trapped by their skin by the hair. Air thus trapped is what protects semi-aquatic animals from cold water temps in winter, though they can only stay in the water for so long and then they get wet. I once saw a doe nursing her fawns while they stood in a creek; no camera handy, of course.
Did you know that 3 good sized crawfish in a kiddy pool can really liven things up for them? My 3 & 5 y/o are visiting and their mom blew up the pool and put a few inches of water in it and their 10 & 14 y/o cousins were fixing to join them in it.
Did you know there are weasels in WV? I have lived here 32 years this week and today driving on the way home from our local COE lake with my 10 y/o gd, I saw my first one. From the description I have read it had to be a long tailed weasel. I first thought it was a gray squirrel but it was more slender and a lighter color with a long, black tipped tail. It ran right across the state highway leaving the lake side towards the tall rock banks and forest on the other side.
I knew there were and have seen other members of the weasel family such as skunks, otters, and mink around here. It amazes me how many animals like this are around but people who have lived here their whole life have never seen them and, sadly, many never will see one either because they don't get out in the woods and on the water or worse, because they don't know what to look for.
When I did wildlife control I'd get calls from people with a bird inside their house. They were clueless as to what kind of bird it was. I'd ask if it was the size of a robin or crow and they didn't know what that is. When I went there I'd ask if they grew up here (understandable if they were recent immigrants) and they said they've lived here all their life. Usually the bird turned out to be a European Starling. I am constantly amazed at how unaware many people are about the natural world, and many don't care.
Did you know a small electric trolling motor mounted on the front of a boat generally is much more effective than one mounted on the rear? Add a foot control and you are really set for hands free fishing all day long. In the old days especially down south (and as previously discussed in this thread) people used to scull the boat from the back with a single oar and sideways 8 motion to propel and steer the boat and still have one hand free to fish but the foot controlled electric takes it up to 2 hands free fishing.
A big aspect is the front mounted motor pulls the boat along instead of pushing it and the wind and current do not affect it nearly as much. Another way to think of it is pulling a donut with a string vs pushing one with a pencil. (Yes, these threads do always eventually get back to food. :D)
A man's gotta eat to keep up his strength.
Did you know how an old fashioned live well works in a boat? A live well is simply a watertight box, often built into or as a bench seat, connected to the bottom of the boat. A hole is bored into the bottom of the boat so the water the boat is floating in flows into the box to the level the boat is riding in the water. I.e. If the boat draws 4" (Floats 4" deep) in the water, the water will rise to 4" deep in the live well. If the boat draws 6", the water in the livewell will be 6" deep. If the livewell is a double paneled box a second hole is bored into the livewell and a sealed tube between the hole in the livewell and the hole in the bottom of the boat is inserted to prevent the water from running out into the rest of the boat.
When moving the boat any distance at speed on the water the boat draws less water and the level in the livewell drops and drains back into the lake/river so before moving any distance a plug is inserted to prevent the water from draining back into the lake/river. The plug can also be inserted and water left in the livewell with the boat is loaded for transport home. In some cases pumps are installed to add air to help keep the fish alive.
My live well had intermittent and continuous pump to a spray tube with holes in top of tank, and both through transom drain and through hull overflow at top of tank. Boat had two of them, one for bow fisherman and one under rear seat for stern fisherman. I never fished bass tournaments, so had no need for the live wells, bait was put into a floating bucket along side of boat.
When I sold the boat to folks from PA they were tournament bass fishermen, so demanded to see the wells function. I kept life jackets and kids beach toys in the 2 live wells, and had a bit of panic when the wells would not fill fro circulation pump, then remembered about the shutoff valves inside the tanks to prevent accidental filling of the tanks if circulation/fill pump was accidentally turned on.
Like you described, I had rubber plug in bottom of tanks to prevent them from filling to water line, and soaking/ making mildew on my life jackets.
Bigger and more expensive boat, but think was typical of an 18' Lund and others.
I remember when I was a kid we had an old wooden boat with a plywood bottom and Dad hit a snag in the river and knocked a hole in the bottom under the live well. Since the water did not leak into the boat he never worried about it. One time a co-worker of his borrowed the boat and he and his son took it on a fishing trip. The man came back and told Dad they had caught the most fish ever on a trip but got back to the landing and found they had all escaped out the hole in the live well. Dad told them he was sorry he had never gotten around to fixing it but since it did not leak into the boat and nothing over 3" could get out so he had not worried about fixing it. :D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on July 11, 2022, 10:48:50 PMThe man came back and told Dad they had caught the most fish ever on a trip but got back to the landing and found they had all escaped out the hole in the live well.
Sounds pretty fishy to me. :D
I have told this story before, but. My dad and I were fishing down the Meramac River in Missouri, along a limestone bluff covered in trees and brush. We were in an aluminum john boat, probably 12 footer. We were in opposite ends of the boat when a snake fell into the center of the boat. In that moment my dad invented the live well with his oar, and I learned every word of profanity that serve me to this day.
I have made live wells in ice while ice fishing.
With 18" or so of ice, we would drill partial and chisel out a rectangular tub in the ice about 16" deep, then poke a small hole in bottom of the tub, which would fill up to top level of the ice.
You could put your fish in there and they would stay lively, but had to keep an eye on it. On very cold days, need to keep skimming it or it could freeze solid very quickly, and on warm days melt water would run into it making your hole in bottom bigger, letting the fish out.
Be careful of state laws, some states you must kill the fish you intend to keep or release them immediately.
I know I posted this but I guess the cyber monster ate it so I'll try again:
Did you know drift piles on the lake and river left after a flood can be fun to search but can also be very dangerous? In my late teens my hunting buddy's old uncle and his fishing partner were fishing in Alabama and tied up next to a big drift pile to fish and one of the old men leaned up against the pile and it fell into the boat sinking it and both of them nearly drowned.
I used to ride around our local COE lake in the spring after the winter floods and collect pressure treated lumber out of the piles. The floods destroy docks and such and the lumber comes down and settles in the drift piles. On one such trip my son collected 2- 40 gallon and one 80 gallon tank. The 80 gallon tank was full of propane and I think he is still using.
You can find all kind of interesting things in such drift piles. They are great sources for interesting craft wood pieces too.
Did you know that when an alligator or crocodile grabs hold of a live prey they typically go into what is called a death roll and roll over and over to drown their prey? Many people have had an arm or leg twisted off by such attacks. If multiple gators or crocs are around they may work as a team and each will grab a limb and tear them off.
About the only hope a person has to survive is grab hold of the body and roll with the animal but that is awful hard to remember to do when you life is in immediate danger and you are probably in the worst pain of your life.
If I'm in a brawl with a Croc 🐊 or Gator 🐊 I'm going to get my rubber bands out. All the their power is on the bite down
This is true. They have pretty much a one way hinge and you can hold their mouth shut with 2 fingers. The problem is getting your arm or leg out of his mouth to close it so you can get your rubber band around it. :D
Now keeping them from closing it is a real problem. We visited an alligator and turtle farm north of New Orleans back in July 1998 and in the alligator breeding pond we came across about a 10' long alligator with a 12-14 inch long water turtle in her jaws. She seemed to be waiting on us all to get next to the fence to watch then when we were all there she raised her head and crunched down through the turtle's hard shell completely shattering it then swallowed it whole. I don't know how much force it takes to crush a turtle shell that size but it was a lot.
You definitely bring a lot of interesting information Howard 👍
Did you ever think of how a fish rises and lowers himself in the water? The main feature they use is a swim bladder which is connected to their gills. They breathe through their gills and divert a certain amount of oxygen into the bladder. As the bladder gets filled like a balloon and the fish rises in the water. To go lower it just empties some of the air till it starts to sink. Using their fins and tail for locomotion helps regulate its depth.
Some fish like puffer fish (blowfish) take it to another level and hide in a crack in the rocks or coral and blow their whole body up and wedge themselves so tightly in the crevice the predators can't get them out. Some puffer fish (Porcupine puffers) even have spikes that stick out when they expand and the predator can't swallow them. Sometimes you will find a dead predator fish with an inflated puffer stuck in its throat.
Scuba diving uses the same principle with a bladder in the diver's vest that the diver inflates by mouth or from air in his tank by pushing a button. You add air to rise and dump air to sink. When you get to the desired depth and add just enough air for neutral buoyancy you stay at that depth. Since your lungs are a bladder, during normal breathing inhaling deeply causes you to rise and exhaling deeply causes you to sink.
If the weight of the water that would displace a particular volume is more that the weight of the actual item, it floats. true for people and boats. also fat is less dense that water and floats, and muscle is heavier. that is why the fat floats on the top and after a roast is cooled, you can pull the solid fat off the top. fat has 9 calories per gram and what makes it a good energy storage form, compared to carbs and protein at 4 calories per gram. a swim survival method is to take off your pants and tie a knot in both legs, and float on them filled with air.
Submarines use similar methods to control their depth as was described for fish. During normal operations they will pump water out of ballast tanks or allow it in to control buoyancy (mostly for water temperature changes as they move to different locations or to a different depth). They will also move water to and from the bow and stern to help level as necessary. Normal depth changes are done with the planes (water "wings" if you will) as the sub moves through the water. The location of these planes differ with different classes of subs, but there are always rear planes, similar to the rear wings of a plane.
To surface, they are near the water surface and raise a snorkel to suck air using air pump that pushes water out of the main ballast tanks (different than the ballast tanks to fine tune buoyancy). The main ballast tanks surround the exterior of the submarine and are open on the bottom of the sub. To submerge, they simply open valves on the top of the ballast tanks (the surface of the sub that can be walked on) and the air is pushed out as water comes in from the open bottom.
An emergency surface uses large tanks of compressed air that rapidly push out the water in the main ballast tanks. This can be done from any depth, since their is no snorkel needed to suck air from the surface. This emergency blow was what sank the USS Thresher. The rapidly expanding air froze moisture in the air lines, blocking the compressed air and it wasn't able to surface. After that, onboard compressed air was dried with an air dryer - which is commonplace now for larger compressed air systems.
Good points on the subs and calories in fat. :D It is much easier to maintain desired depth when moving than when sitting still. While swimming and scuba diving or in a moving sub minor adjustments compensate in true buoyancy. In real life most stationary objects in the water are either slowly rising or sinking and as you change depths the speed will increase.
I tell people to think of neutral buoyancy and a fishing float attached on a piece of line to a lead sinker. If the weight and water displacement perfectly match the sinker and float will neither rise or sink. In real life that is very hard to perfectly achieve. I don't know how the fish can tell when to add or dump air from their bladder but if you see one floating perfectly still if you look I bet you still see small movements from his small pectoral fins.
Doc,
Further to your post I am reminded that when I worked with recruits at Parris Island USMC base a couple generations ago one of the statistics everyone tracked was swim qualifications. Women recruits (And as a disclaimer I never trained WM recruits but the WMs I worked with in the Corps were top notch) almost always passed their swim qualifications. Their body fat was naturally higher than the male recruits. In many cases the women could not sink without added weight.
If we started a training series of say 200 male recruits at the end of training we would typically have 184-185 pass their swim qual and 15-16 who did not and those would typically be a mix like 15 black and 1 Hispanic. At the time I was told it was because their bones and muscles were more dense and they did not float as well. I believed that analysis until 20-21 years later I was working in Cameroon in West Africa and visited the local fishing villages and I'd see 3-4 year old African kids swimming naked in the jungle rivers like a bunch of otters. That was when I realized it was not physical differences in their anatomy but simple demographics. Those male recruits I had seen were probably from the inner cities and had never had the opportunity to swim in private or neighborhood pools or visit the beaches and such like more of their more affluent Caucasian teammates had access to when growing up.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on July 14, 2022, 05:17:56 PMI don't know how the fish can tell when to add or dump air from their bladder but if you see one floating perfectly still if you look I bet you still see small movements from his small pectoral fins.
Some fish will actually swallow a bubble of air to adjust their buoyancy (and get extra oxygen if needed). I used to have a big plecostomus (sucking catfish) in my tank, and every so often he would let out a big "burp" and dart to the surface for a fresh gulp of air. They are naturally negatively buoyant even with the air, and tend to rest on the bottom when not actively swimming. Gourami and betta fish have a special lung like sac they breathe air into, helps them survive in shallow low oxygen water.
Also relates to those fancy thermometers with the floats. Each one is a slightly different weight, with a temp printed on it. As the water heats or cools it's density changes, and the balls float or sink accordingly. So just a degree or temp change can turn something just "just floating" to "just sinking". A fish or submarine is going to experience the same effects with different temp (or salinity), but the fine adjust would be done via fins (in both cases).
Did you know catfish are predator fish? I hope this is not an insulting question but many people think of catfish as piscatorial lawyers (scavengers and bottom feeders ::)) who forage for dead and rotting fish and debris on the bottom of the lake and use cut bait, cheese, chicken livers, shrimp, squid, assorted stink baits and soap and such to catch them. In all actuality, you will likely be just as successful, if not more so, by using nightcrawlers, live minnows, bream or chubs for big channel or blue cats and some species of catfish, like flatheads, almost exclusively feed on live bait and will ignore dead baits. You may be surprised by a very hard strike and a strong fight on your hands when fishing artificial baits for bass, crappie, pike or musky or such to finally get the fish to the boat or bank and find a big catfish on your hook.
Did you know beech mast is very popular and a valuable food for wildlife - and pretty tasty eating? The beech seeds grow in a little burr which opens up to yield 2 triangle shaped nuts about the size of a raw peanut. They taste to me very much like a green peanut. They get ripe in late summer to early Fall and are a preferred food for many birds, squirrels, turkeys, grouse, deer, bear, etc. The shells are pretty thin and easily crushed when chewed and I assume are pretty easy to digest for birds. I find the triangle shape of the nut one of their most unique features and can't think of any other triangle shaped nut out there.
Alligators can be aggressive. I saw on the news this morning that a woman was attacked and killed by gators in a pond on an Englewood, Fl. golf course. When Jmoore and I were in high school, he and our other friends would often wade fish for bass in Lake Gibson. We would see gators while wading and occasionally they would start stalking us. One time we climbed up onto a dock to wait for the gator to leave us alone. The lady who lived in the house that had the dock came out and implored us to get off of the dock or she was going to call the law. We suggested that she go ahead and call and assured her that we would leave as soon as we felt it was safe.
One evening, while fishing by myself, wading along in chest deep water through the cattails, I heard a gator nearby. It was nearly dark, and I had a stringer of seven good bass tied to my waist. I was probably 100 yards from the shore, and I reluctantly decided it was in my best interest to release the bass and move as quietly and calmly towards the shore. If you have ever seen a gator following something, you know they will just speed up and usually attack when what they are following flees. I've caught a bunch over the years on jitterbug plugs and plastic worms.
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We have a terrapin digging a hole in our flower bed to lay her eggs. She has been digging for over an hour.
That's neat. Be sure to send pictures of the babies when they hatch. They are real cute little guys about the size of a 50 cent piece around here.
Oh yeah - around here they are called "Tarpons". When we moved to WV 32 years ago last week my neighbors kept talking about 'Tarpons" and I kept thinking about big sliver fish people catch around the coast and keys of Fla. Boy was I confused. :D
She dug the hole, laid her eggs, covered the hole, and then spent the night there. Still there.
Did you know pretty much from the beginning of time a successful fishing technique was to club the fish in shallow water and stun or kill them? The fish was then quickly thrown out on the bank to keep it from coming to and escaping. When I see various survival shows with contestants in the jungle with carp or eels coming up into shallow water or a drying water hole in an African desert full of big catfish and see them try to spear them with a dull pointed stick I think of how foolish that is. I have speared fish with good metal spears/gigs and I know how hard it is to penetrate their bony skulls and scales.
The two simple ways I can think of to catch fish in such a survival situation with limited equipment is simply clubbing them or bow fishing. A very primitive bow and arrows will penetrate the fish in shallow water.
If we see you out on your lake clubbing catfish, we will know that you are hungry.
I guess dynamite was the natural next level. smiley_idea smiley_clapping
Mullen thrown in a blocked backwater is one I've heard :)
My MIL was apparently good at grenade fishing :D
In my glorious misspent youth, I was known to shoot them in shallow water with a ,22. We had a farm on the banks of the Meramac River in Missouri, when the river would flood it would fill old drains and pot holes in the bottom, stream would go back in bank and there would be fish, usually catfish and/or carp, stranded. Too much of an opportunity for a kid.
I don't know what the statute of limitations is on shooting fish so I won't go into any great detail there but I did have a JC college professor who studied parasites in fish and I brought him a couple of suckers to test and he did ask about some missing scales on one side. I guess they came off in the freezer. ::)
Did you know a fishing technique (with questionably sanity?) is noodling or hand fishing for big catfish? The fisherman wades around in shallow water and feels around in holes in the rocks, under trees and stumps and other cavities in the bank. If a big catfish is present he will attack the fisherman when he sticks his paw up in the hole and the fisherman then grabs the fish by the lips and holds on for dear life and pulls the fish out and ties on a rope or stringer. As you can imagine pulling out a 50-70 lb fish can be a pretty wild ride.
I grew up in Fla with huge alligator snapping turtles, cottonmouths, alligators and some man-sized gars (Although I don't think gars are big on using such dens) and in spite of some incredibly questionable acts with wild animals, I never felt the urge to try noodling there. WV just made hand fishing legal in the summer months here. (I can't imagine anyone wanting to try it in the winter with our water temps then.)
Not sure if noodling just takes courage or a Death Wish. There are a lot of ways that one can kill oneself, but I have never heard of suicide by catfish :D. I like my catfish fried, not hanging off my arm.
You should check out Hannah Barron from Alabama a 5ft tall 25 year old known for catching catfish by hand
Hannah
Catfish Noodling: Grabbing Flatheads with the LEGENDS! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCuKHdGq6Ks)
Did you know sea salt is typically made by evaporating the water from sea water mostly using solar power? The water is typically pulled from the ocean, strained to remove any sand or other impurities then placed in various containers ranging from open canals to glass lined tanks, etc where the wind and sun evaporate off the water. I read somewhere a gallon of sea water yields about 4 ounces of salt. Sea salt is often preferred because it contains other minerals which enhances flavor and may be a healthier option because of the trace minerals included.
I saw big sea salt operation south of Jeddah Saudi Arabia along the Red Sea. What I first thought was a Bedouin tent camp turned out to huge mounds of salt piled up with skid steers after it had dried. We saw another sea salt operation was on the Skeleton Coast of Namibia, Western Africa near Swakomund (Angelina Jolie's preferred location for birth of her children). I remember seeing partially evaporated canals full of sea water that was so dense foam blowing off the operation seemed to just roll across the surface rather than bursting as would normally have been expected.
I like the whole sea salt thing... as if Mortons came from the salt factory. At some point in time it was all sea salt, the minerals didn't evaporate. About the only enhancement is maybe a little bunker crude in modern yuppified sea salt :D
we get our salt from the ocean as well. Is has dried over millions of years and is 600 feet below our town. the weather and conditions do not change. many old films and documents are stored in "vaults" (just room carved out of the salt), with pillars left for support. it now boasts a second elevator and has a museum. My wife and daughter spent the night as girl scouts down there. The new vineyard I help out with wood and engraving is Inland Ocean as the sand and the mineral are good for grapes and came from years past. part of why the plains are so flat I guess.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strataca
We have an old cast iron kettle that hung from 3 chains and was supposedly an old salt kettle used to boil the water out of sea water. I think my grandparents used to use it when butchering hogs to scald them to get the hairs off and it was also used as a syrup kettle to boil the water out of the sugar cane juice. Supposedly our ancestors brought it from Wales but I always figured they left at night ahead of a posse and suspect they were traveling too light (I.e. Clothes on their back) to be hauling a heavy cast iron salt kettle. ;)
Quote from: Don P on July 19, 2022, 01:40:47 PM
I like the whole sea salt thing... as if Mortons came from the salt factory. At some point in time it was all sea salt, the minerals didn't evaporate. About the only enhancement is maybe a little bunker crude in modern yuppified sea salt :D
In NZs case, the local stuff is all sea salt, from evaporated sea water from a shallow lake in a drier part of the South Island. "Rock Salt" is the expensive imported stuff. :D
Salt from Lake Grassmere - Roadside Stories - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9uplbIegtI)
The clever part is crystallising just the salt, and not the other minerals dissolved in sea water.
we have a salt flats nearby in Oklahoma. you can dig in the sand and find softball sized crystals. only takes a few weeks. high salt content.
Quote from: doc henderson on July 18, 2022, 07:30:35 AM
I guess dynamite was the natural next level. smiley_idea smiley_clapping
Dupont Lures ;D
Cheers
Al
I prefer Dyno Nobel, they just seem to have that certain something. :D ;D
Dynamite for fishing is not recommended as it makes the fish hard to fillet because of all the small bone fragments. Or so I have heard. ::)
I had a Cajun co-worker on a project who described an instance where someone had baited ducks to come to an area and the man piled gravel on dynamite and when the ducks landed he remotely detonated it. I forget how many ducks expired or how many trips to the dentist resulted from the people trying to eat them.
Look up punt guns from back in the days of market "hunting" for duck.
Saltville is nearby. When the coastlines fell it became the salt source of the south. Sea salt from here in the mountains. This is the other shore of Doc's great inland ocean. They injected water into the salt domes, pumped the brine and then boiled it off. At one point each southern state had their "works" in that bottom.
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PatD and I went down into the Morton Salt Mine at Avery Island, Louisiana in 1963. Later an oil well drilled into it and caused the lake above it to collapse into and flood the mine. It was truly a once a lifetime experience.
The trollys were pulled by mules that were lowered into the mine and spent their entire lifetime there.
Some days I feel like those mules must have felt :).
Quote from: Magicman on July 19, 2022, 09:53:12 PMThe trollys were pulled by mules that were lowered into the mine and spent their entire lifetime there.
Did you ever try to housebreak a mule? Now I know why my salt has been tasting funny lately. steve_smiley
Quote from: Magicman on July 19, 2022, 09:53:12 PM.
The trollys were pulled by mules that were lowered into the mine and spent their entire lifetime there.
Hmm, could create a specialty salt, like the Himalayan pink.
Yeah or the special "Dark Roast" salt. ::)
Did you know that natural salt water springs occur when natural springs bubble up through a salt deposit making the water hypersalinated. The salt comes to the surface and the water naturally evaporates leaving salt crystals natives used to season and preserve their foods.
As I understand salt, and sometimes sugar, were used to cure meat or fish by removing the moisture from the flesh which slowed or prevented bacterial growth. When combined with heat, smoke and air drying the meat could be naturally preserved for long periods of time.
Quote from: Texas Ranger on July 20, 2022, 08:52:44 AMHmm, could create a specialty salt, like the Himalayan pink.
My wife buys the Himalayan salt sometimes, I usually wonder out loud if someone one in the Himalayans is selling a special imported salt that is mined in Nova Scotia.
Quote from: Magicman on July 19, 2022, 09:53:12 PMThe trollys were pulled by mules that were lowered into the mine and spent their entire lifetime there.
And I guess when the mules died they just packed them in salt and they are still down there, right? :D
no, they then sold them to people in WV ass bacon. :) (yes I did) :D
Doc,
I'm not talking to you no more. >:(
maybe that was what i was going for! :o :o :o just kidding, we love ya buddy! :)
WV, I am surprised to see you eating mule bacon. But, I guess you gotta do what it takes to survive like eating mule bacon and clubbing catfish. Growing up in North Florida apparently prepared you well for this.
There is a guy on the west coast drying sea salt with a kiln. Specially modified though.
Did you know if you go to make stuffed sausage using pork or other intestines as casing one of the most common ways to package them is in salt?
Last year I made my first stuffed, smoked deer sausage and bought a stuffer then found the pork casings in the sporting goods department at a local Wal Mart. They were in a small sealed foil or plastic envelope packed in salt. To use them the instructions were to soak them in fresh water, separate them, then individually rinse the salt out. I assume as packed in the salt they should last nearly indefinitely.
I bought 2.5 pounds of local sausage in natural skins, cheap. I thought well OK, don't like it I can make a lot of other stuff with it and not waste it. I did not buy enough of it, and when I went back, no more. No name sausage was the best ever.
I shot a big doe Dec 26 last year (Special Youth/Senior hunt day with a free deer for seniors and youth to take an antlerless deer that did not count against your bag limit) and ground most of it up for sausage. I mixed about 4:1 venison to pork and made a little summer sausage but made most into smoked breakfast sausage. I only have a pack or two left and will make more next time. I may grind up 2 of them next year if conditions permit.
Did you know smoking fish is a good way to preserve them and properly done you have a real tasty treat? I suspect salmon is the most commonly smoked fish available and if you watch any of the outdoor shows about Alaska you will see them smoking salmon. I have eaten smoked crappie that was very good and on a trip down a tributary of the Amazon in Ecuador our guide and crew speared a bunch of local fish including piranhas, Peacock bass, etc and laid them out and covered them with palm fronds and smoked them over a homemade wooden rack while we had breakfast and broke camp and we ate on them the rest of the day. After that I tried smoking bluegills and other local bream. They were good but small with lots of bones to navigate around.
Grand dad used to smoke carp, then remove as many bones as possible and make patties to quick fry at a later date. Not my favorite but edible.
TR,
How did he store the smoked carp? Did he can it, freeze it or was it preserved well enough from the smoking alone to keep?
I have never knowingly eaten carp but would not be hugely opposed to it. Dad said they used to eat Bowfin (They called them mudfish in central Fla, Cottonfish in N. Fla, Chupe (sp) in La, etc) when he was a kid. My uncle said they later used to catch and grind them and make fish patties out of them. I have seen gar balls made on outdoor shows around LA and MS. We never ate gar as kids but it sure had a pretty piece of meat for a backstrap I used to use for cut bait on my catfish lines.
I never knew of anybody trying to smoke it.
We lived on a small river and the carp were not abundant enough to keep past the table, may have canned some, they never had a freezer, memory error.
We have talked about them throughout this thread but did you know Catalpa worms make great fish bait? They are a large greenish-yellow caterpillar with black lines and/or spots from a species of moth that lays eggs on the catalpa leaves. The tiny eggs hatch and they are protected from the rain by staying on the underside of the leaf plus it makes it harder for predators to spot them. A couple of the main predators are wasps and Rain crows. The caterpillars eat the leaves leaving only the ribs of the leaves. These ribs then fall, new leaves grow back quickly and in some cases a Catalpa tree will produce 2 crops of worms per year. When the caterpillars have stripped the leaves from the tree they climb down the tree and and burrow into the ground and pupate, hatch as a moth, lay eggs and restart the process.
When fully mature simply touching a catalpa worm (actually a caterpillar) will cause him to turn loose of the leaf he is on and fall to the ground. This is great way to collect them by simply touching them with the tip of a long, limber fishing pole. Be careful though because if you wait a day or two too long they will have already climbed down and burrowed into the ground.
Once collected they are kept in screen wire cages and fed fresh green catalpa leaves. Some people store them in a bag full of corn meal in their fridge in a paper grocery sack (Yes - They are probably bachelors). My old mentor used to freeze them in white Karo syrup.
It is one of the large sphinx moths;
Catalpa Worm or Catalpa Sphinx | NC State Extension Publications (ncsu.edu) (https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/catalpa-worm-or-catalpa-sphinx#:~:text=The%20catalpa%20worm%20or%20catawba%20worm%2C%20Ceratomia%20catalpae%2C,with%20irregular%20dark%20and%20light%20bands%20and%20markings.)
One of the best fish baits that I've tried are the big black crickets that you find by flipping over boards laying on the ground. However, there seems to be a direct correlation between how good a bait is and how labor intensive it is to procure. Another is those huge green grasshoppers.
Since you are talking about crickets did you know there is a cricket called a mole cricket? They are from 1.2-2 inches long, grey in color and have a pair of wide front flippers used for digging in soft, usually sandy soil. I used to find them sometimes at night in Florida around parking lots and such. Apparently they would dig up out of their burrow and on to the pavement or concrete and could not find their way back underground.
When you can find them trapped above ground they are easy to catch and should be equally as good for fish bait as the black crickets described above. I have also had good luck catching bluegills with black crickets but they are hard for me to catch. I should try more of the pop bottle type and pit type traps described in several places on line.
Did you know there are many kinds of traps? There are leg hold, metal jaw-type traps with a pan or wire for a trigger that the animal steps in and releases the jaws which slam shut on his foot, leg or head. Some are even designed to jump up to get a better hold.
There are wire or rope snares that catch the animal by the neck or foot. There are deadfall traps that cause a heavy weight to drop on and kill the animal. There are live traps with a narrow funnel the animal crawls through but it is harder to get back out. Some have a tunnel and a hole in the middle that the animal climbs out in then is not smart enough to find the exit again. Some have doors that trip and fall. Some even have a one way hinged door that allows multiple animals to get in the trap.
Many use a figure 4 trigger that holds the door or snare open or weight above under pressure but releases when bumped.
Some kill traps even use a bullet or shotgun shell hooked to a mouse trap that hits a tack or nail that hit the primer firing the bullet/shell. Some were made using arrows on a crawn bow arrangement.
Monkeys were trapped using a heavy clay jug with a narrow handle and when the monkey reached in, grabbed the bait or lure, he would not pull his closed fist out and he was too greedy and not smart enough to release the object and stayed caught.
Recently I have seen ancient bird traps where a snare is put on a perch and when the bird lights with his foot in the snare, the perch falls and he is trapped.
Coons used to be caught by drilling a hole in a log, putting a shiny lure in the bottom and driving a sharp nail in at an angle. When the coon stuck his front foot in it would get hung on the point on the way out.
If you can think of others add them here.
Did you know how many reptiles "Smell"? Many like snakes and some large lizards have a small duct in the nasal cavity called a Jacobson's Organ that they use to distinguish smells. They use their long forked tongue to reach out and pick up moisture laden molecules and pull them back into their mouth and drop them off where they are "analyzed". A poisonous snake will strike its prey which may run off a distance before it dies from the effect of the venom. The snake crawls along the trail flicking its tongue in and out and "tasting" the air trailing the prey. A Komodo dragon will ambush its prey which may be as big as a water buffalo and the nasty bacteria in its bite causes infection which eventually kills the animal. Meanwhile trailing behind is the dragon tasting the air till he finds his dead or immobilized prey.
Also as a side note/more trivia, when you see a name spelled with a "son" (such as Jacobson) it generally denotes Swedish or Danish ancestry while if you see it spelled with an "sen" such as as Jacobsen, it denotes Norwegian ancestors. Because of intermingling among the Scandinavians this does not always hold true but it was the case in the past.
we taste the same way. taste and smell senses are nearly the same. one is eaten and one is suspended in the air. think about that neat time you are second in line and walk into a smelly bathroom. :o 8) :snowball: :)
Doc,
Are you suggesting Covid may be a defense mechanism against smelly toilets? ;) My 10 y/o gd got it last year and the loss of smell was the only symptom they had. She recovered quickly.
Seriously though, how does the Covid block our sense of smell and taste?
If affects the brain and nervous system. long covid and brain fog is more cognitive stuff. just like the original had a propensity for lung tissue like a few other viruses (sars), it also got the nervous system in some. vision, hearing, taste and smell have receptors and send info to the brain. skin also. It seems to go for taste and smell. prob. better than sight and hearing loss.
I personally found the best weapon against the wasps are my German Shepard Diesel. He has been putting a hurting on them! Watch out if your around! He is going through the air and catches them and eats them! I think it makes him more mad when he is getting stung 😂
About different traps, have you ever heard of the collarum snare trap for coyotes? When the coyote bites onto and pulls on a piece of bait it throws a snare onto its' neck and holds them as though on a leash. Safe for dogs that get caught.
KEC,
I had never heard of a lasso throwing snare trap for coyotes. Sounds pretty neat.
I know they make a coon trap that will not catch other animals. It looks like a piece of pipe and the coon sticks his front foot in to get the bait and it catches him. Other animals can't get their foot in to get caught.
I did not mention pit traps but that was one of the earliest. They are too much trouble to build to be of much use in most cases.
I know beaver traps were typically hooked to a heavy wire and and had a kink placed in it so when trapped the beaver immediately dove for the deeper water, the ring on the end of the chain slid down the wire but the kink kept him from being able to come back above the surface so he drowned pretty quickly.
Traps for wild hogs are like a big wire pen and some of them have the one way gate in an entrance as I mentioned earlier. More pigs can push their way in but once in the door drops back behind them and they can't lift the gate so you can catch multiple animals in the same trap at the same time.
I talked to the husband of an old HS classmate in N Fla a couple of years ago and they had a big round pen they lifted, placed bait inside and had a remote camera set up and could observe the trap from anywhere on their cell phone and call a number to release it. He said they would often catch 25-30 pigs at a time and because it was suspended they never got used to it or scared of it as they do permanent traps on the ground.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on July 27, 2022, 08:40:52 AM
KEC,
I talked to the husband of an old HS classmate in N Fla a couple of years ago and they had a big round pen they lifted, placed bait inside and had a remote camera set up and could observe the trap from anywhere on their cell phone and call a number to release it. He said they would often catch 25-30 pigs at a time and because it was suspended they never got used to it or scared of it as they do permanent traps on the ground.
That is a real common trap down here, the hogs like to kill them selves running into the trap after it drops.
And if you guys feel about wild hogs like most people I know, if they did kill themselves it would not hurt your feelings one little but would it. :D
For today's topic: Did you know a common hunting technique used by many primitive tribes all over the world was to drive herd animals over a cliff where they were killed or injured to the point they could not escape. Hundreds of animals might be killed when only a dozen or so could be processed for actual use. The same location would be used year after year. The tribes would wait till the wind and weather conditions were right and the animals were in the right position and the tribesmen would use fire and noise to scare the animals which would run over the cliff or embankment and break their legs or kill themselves. The meat and hides would be processed often providing their winter food supplies. The whole tribe including the women and children would be involved with butchering, drying and smoking the meat and tanning the hides and such.
This was very common with the plains Indians harvesting bison, African tribes would harvest various antelope or buffalo and I think I read in some cases elephants were killed this way in Africa or Asia. I think there is evidence mammoths or mastodons may have been hunted in this fashion.
The "dog proof" coon trap, unfortunately, is not housecat proof. If it was, it would do a lot for trapper/public relations. It is my understanding that Native Americans became so efficient at hunting Mastadons and/or Wooly Mammoths that it contributed to their extinction. Or so some believe. A few of these animals have been found over the years frozen in the ice and remarkably well preserved. They even toyed with the idea of getting eggs and sperm from them and fertilizing them in a lab and implanting the fertilized egg into an elephant. Must not have been a success or we would have head about it. Jurrasic Park would have paid a premium for one of those!
WV, that must be where the idea for ground beef came from. :)
KEC,
I had never heard of a cat sticking its paw up in there but I guess Tabby could if she wanted to.
I know they have found live DNA in some of the frozen carcasses in the Artic and Siberia and places. I read somewhere a group of explorers found a tribe of Eskimos or such cooking and eating red meat and they could not figure the source so they asked and were told something like "It came from the ice" and they went where shown and found it was a frozen mammoth in a block of ice and the meat was still edible.
I think it is highly feasible they can pretty much bring back the mastodon or mammoth by using the DNA to fertilize and elephant egg then keep back breeding till they get a nearly pure species.
I think I read there is big money in mammoth ivory when found in Alaska but the sale is limited to to the native American tribesmen. I think the Narwhal tusk (?) is the same way.
prob. soon, if not already, (ethical/morale concerns) can take the DNA and start from scratch. more of a twin than a sibling or progeny.
Did you know another type trap not mentioned above was a drawstring net arrangement? I saw some made by the Bakka pygmies in central Africa. I had read an account years before of a similar trap used in the UK to catch rabbits. A net with a drawstring was placed along a well used trail or in the UK they were placed over rabbit dens. The animal was chased and when he hit the net it tightened the string behind him tying him up in a neat ball. In the UK rabbits were chased into the hole and net using beagles and later were chased out of the hole and into the net by turning trained ferrets loose in the dens. The net worked the same from either direction.
Pygmies also hunted with nets setting them up to surround a very thick area then a hunter when into the thicket and chased the game out and when it hit the net it was trapped and standers would come kill it with a club or machete.
On a much larger scale are fish weirs, they are a set of poles with netting on them that are arranged to let fish in at high tide and make it difficult for the fish to get out, at low tide the fish are picked up with dip nets.
Some people still do this kind of fishing but I don't know of any around here. Flying around a few years back I could see remnants of fish weirs off the shore in a place called Church Point.
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This is similar to the method used by the natives in the pacific. The tribes would have nets extending from shore out into a cove. Then natives in the canoes would drive fish into the cove by swinging rocks held in a sling into the water. Then the natives would close the opening and keep drawing the net tighter and tighter until they had a nice pool of fish.
Another related Island fishing method is to get everyone in the water of the lagoon with palm tree leaves. A big semi-circle then drives the fish into the shallows, and the guys with the best reflexes go into the school and start flicking them on to the beach.
No nets or even canoes needed, just palm fronds and the rest of the tribe.
I like the simplicity of the weir. I think I saw one show where a man made one on a river in New York to catch eels.
Did you know another method of trapping fish used in Alaska and probably other places is a fish wheel? It looks sort of like an old fashioned water wheel used to grind meal or saw lumber or such. It is anchored in a prime location and turns in the current. As I understand migrating fish heading upstream swim into the boxes on the wheel and as the wheel turns it dumps them into a holding tank from which they are collected by the fisherman. The placement location is determined by experience, current, and underwater topography that forces or encourages the fish to pass through that particular location.
We saw these wheels in use in Alaska and I understand they are used for many, many years. I gather during the off peak season the owner makes repairs and in some if not most cases pulls the wheel to a safe location so seasonal flooding does not damage or destroy it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3228.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1659180117)
Since we have been talking about trapping fish I decided to photograph and show a picture of a Crevette (Crawfish or shrimp in French) trap I bought in Cameroon on 30 May 2004. A group of women sitting under an open sided palm thatched shed were making these traps from thin strips of wood, bamboo or raffia palm they had split into pieces about 2' long X 3/8" wide. They were weaving them together using nylon cord. They would basically make a mat then roll it into a tube about 8" in diameter.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3229.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1659180116)
On one end a funnel was made and tied in place which allows the fish or crustacean to enter but is harder to exit. Near the center of the tube a second funnel is tied in place. The other end is squeezed shut and tied with cord. Bait (Meat or fish) is placed in the trap and it is sunk in a likely spot in a local stream or lake and the crawfish enter and get trapped. The traps are pulled, the end is untied, the catch is emptied into a bucket or such, the end is tied shut again and the trap is put back in the water to continue its work.
The live crawfish are taken home, cooked and eaten or sold in the market. Along the main highways in Cameroon are periodic toll booths and check stations. Enterprising kids run along side your car as you slow down and stop and try to sell you a sack full of "Crevettes". People also sell fresh bread, fruit, nuts and veggies at these choke points.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3230.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1659181219)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3231.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1659181200)
Above are a couple of pictures of minnow traps I keep along the creek in my front yard. I hang them in overhanging trees and bait and set them in the creek when I plan to go fishing. I catch local minnows and chubs and a few crawfish get in after the bait and the minnows. Often a small water snake goes in after the minnows, drowns and becomes more bait for the crawfish.
The concept is identical with a funnel design. In this case there is a funnel on each end and it breaks open in the middle to remove the catch.
This same concept with the wire or wooden trap with funnels is in use all over the world to catch fish, crabs, lobsters, etc. The only difference is the size of the trap/basket and the funnel which is based on the size of the expected catch whether it is a catfish in Louisiana or Mississippi (Where legal to use) or a king crab in the Gulf of Alaska.
On a trip to Bar Harbor Maine a few years back on a lobster boat tour the operator did explain the law there that requires the lobster baskets to have at least one biodegradable/organic part of the trap so that if is lost, the part rots creating an opening and lobsters and fish getting trapped can escape. Otherwise it would continue to be a death trap for years on the bottom of the ocean. As I remember jute cord was typically used to hold the door in place or such to meet this requirement.
I checked and here are picture of the women making the traps above.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/Petite_Batanga_036.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1659182393)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/Petite_Batanga_034.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1659182392)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/Petite_Batanga_032.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1659182392)
EDIT/ADD-ON:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/056.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1659183778)
While surfing down memory lane I came across this picture of crab or fish traps on the dock in Dubai. I took this picture on 23 August 2011 while there on medical leave after shedding some body parts (Gall bladder and kidney cyst) in a Dubai hospital on Emergency Leave from Afghanistan.
(A few minutes after I took this picture a bunch of guys invited me aboard their Dhow for a visit and tour. They were very friendly and we had a great time. If I had known they were Iranian before I got on I might have declined the offer. They would come to Dubai, load up and go back to Iran and return. I think it was about a one week turn around for each trip. Nice folks - nervous politically. I probably should not have been there.)
"Hello, is this the State Department? My name is Howard and I am a prisoner in Iran. I was just taking a picture of crab traps when these nice people invited me on their Dhow."
Danny,
Actually the conversation was more like:
"Hello, is this the State Department? This is Howard again..."
Did you know that remote tribespeople make and use backpacks similar to our old fashioned trappers baskets?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/Yaounde_trip_013.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1659289343)
This is a picture I took of a lady in Cameroon between Douala (Economic capital of the country on the Atlantic Ocean) and Yaounde (Actual capital city of the country) taken in May 2004. This is a typical scene of a woman carrying such a basket with shoulder straps woven into the basket as she goes to and from the fields to work. I can't tell from this picture if she has a machete or a short handled hoe the people use there inside the basket.
My wife and I returned in February 2008 and bought two of these baskets from a woman in a village along the way for our porters to use to carry our camping supplies up into the Atlantika Mountains along the border with Nigeria. We trekked in and camped with the Kome (Koo Mah) tribe who were first contacted by outsiders around 1985 IIRC.
The craftsmanship to make such a basket is superb. They used dry grass similar to Broomsedge which they wove into rope then as they wove the baskets from Raffia palm, rattan, or bamboo like our southern ancestors used to weave white oak into baskets and such, they would weave the rope into the basket corners to make shoulder straps. Sometimes they weave a headband into the construction that is worn across the forehead for extra support and stability.
It is typical to see village women walking too and from the fields with a backpack basket on their back full of their harvest or such. As likely as not they will also have a load of firewood or laundry or dishes washed in a local stream balanced on their heads as they return home. Anyway, I bought 2 such baskets for about $3 each as I remember. The lady only wanted to sell me one as she needed the other for her daily chores but I needed and pressed her for 2 and the lure of so much money overwhelmed her and she sold both. No doubt she started weaving another that same day for her use. We used ours on our trip and brought them home as part of our checked baggage.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3234.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1659364729)
This is one of my most prized possessions - a handmade backpack and machete I bought off a pygmy hunter 26 June 2004 two days before I left Cameroon. My guide and a co-worker were making a day trip through the community of Bella and where 2 dirt tracks met there was a small community store made from a 20' connex with a small porch attached. Sitting on the porch were 2 pygmies and 3 taller African tribesmen. Evidently they had been out in the bush hunting for several days and met at the store.
One of the pygmies had this pack with his camping/cooking gear or such wrapped up in plastic inside. The backpack seems to be made of rattan vine. There are 3 main panels made sort of like a homemade snowshoe. The pieces are joined by tightly woven bamboo or raffia strips to make the sides. Then the 3 main pieces were tied together with maroon nylon cord in the shape of a triangle. The nylon cord is also laced across the bottom to form a bottom to keep gear from falling out. The contents were wrapped in plastic and jammed inside. The flat side is worn against the back with the seam of the other two facing away from the wearer's back. Two wire loops of baling wire or such were placed on one side and the well worn, electrical taped handle, blade is held in place by the wire.
When I asked, using my co-worker and by-standers, who spoke more French and local dialects than me, if he would sell it, he said if I would come back next week and he'd have me a new one. I told him I was leaving in 2 days and the movers were coming tomorrow - which was true. He said he'd sell the pack for 3,000 cfas (About $5) and I immediately agreed. He removed his belongings then the machete and I stopped him and asked how much for the machete and he said 2,000 cfas and I agreed knowing I could buy a brand new machete at my builder's supply I used for 1,500 cfas. The old used machete is much more valuable to me than a new one.
While we were talking the owner of the store saw us and came out and she opened the store. I guess a white guy in her neighborhood was pretty rare so she opened for us - also African business people do not want to lose a sale! We went in and I bought everyone a soda or beer (My driver and I got cokes, the rest got big bottle of a local "Export 33" beer which was cheaper than cokes anyway). I am sure I spent more on the round of beer than the backpack but it was still dirt cheap. We all left happy. The pygmy probably thought he had really conned the crazy white guy out of 5,000 cfas (Probably over a week's salary if he could get work) for something he made in a few hours from free materials from the bush and he could probably buy 2 new machetes for what he got from his worn out one. The by-standers got to meet a white American and got a free beer or two. The store owner made a big sale. I got my favorite souvenir from 3.5 years working in Cameroon.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3235.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1659366233)
As worn. Flat against the back, machete in the wire loop fasteners.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3236.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1659366231)
Standing upright with the bottom on the floor. Hard to see but note the loops on each side which are flexible bark tied to the pack frame the proper length to make shoulder straps. You can see a little of the weaving on the back. Very hard to see is another piece of flexible bark at the top which forms a headband.
Nice treasures! And always interesting stories 👍
One of your best stories so far. very nice Howard.
Dragging us backwards about 30 pages, remember the discussion about yucca? I was reading a book from 1875 online;
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/adamsneedle.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1659405947)
Carry on :)
Don,
I never heard yucca called Adam's Needle although that makes sense if you have ever backed into one. :o I have heard it called Spanish bayonet.
The native yucca on my property is Yucca filamentosa, and it is also called Adam's needle. Probably the same plant as you are referencing, Don.
Danny,
That is the same yucca I grew up around. Dad said when he was a kid they cut it in 1/4" wide strips and used it to hang meat in the smokehouse as it was very flexible and very strong. I remember it had little wild threads growing out of the leaf periodically. We always called it "Bear Grass" but I never heard it called Adam's Needle. Of course 100 miles travel will result in a totally different name for the same plant.
Wild scuppernongs (Vitis rotundafolia - IIRC) were called Bullices where I grew up but they are more commonly call muscadines everywhere else I lived.
That is amazing. I also knew the yucca as bear grass and had not heard of it called Adam's needle. It is even hard to cut with a bushhog because of the white filament and very tough fibrous leaves. It has a long flower spike four or 5 feet tall that is quite beautiful with showy white flowers.
Also, my Dad called the wild grapes/muscadines the same as you did, bullices. I used to climb up in a big pine that had the vines growing up in the limbs and sit on a limb and eat them. The skins are tough and I found them to be inedible, but the juice from the grape was sweet and flavorful. The seeds were encased in a firm jelly-like sac that did not have much taste so I just crushed the grape in my mouth and sucked out the sweet juice and spit out the tough skin and the jelly like seed sac.
In keeping with the "Did you know" theme:
Both Muscadine and Scuppernong grapes are indigenous to the Southeast region of the U.S. They grow both wild and domestically in backyards and on farms from Arkansas to the Carolina's and everywhere South of there.
Muscadine and Scuppernong are a couple of names that are sometimes used loosely to mean the same grape, but in reality, a Scuppernong (white) is a particular variety of Muscadine (purple). So, technically you could call any Scuppernong grape a Muscadine, but you couldn't call any Muscadine grape a Scuppernong.
Back to the Pygmy backpack, on that same trip my co-worker, Louis, was familiar with the area and knew and was known by the people including many of the pygmies and was serving as my guide. He related the below tale from my journal about the time he was chained up and left for days by a corrupt Gendarme but the pygmies fed and protected and ultimately helped free him.
On one such trip Louis said they had been cutting boards and beams from trees in the bush and stacking them close to the road. They rented a large truck to haul the lumber back to the church site in Douala. While doing so four Gendarmes and four forest rangers came to the site on their motorcycles and demanded to see their permits. From what I gather they were working with verbal approval only so I could understand the Gendarmes arresting or detaining someone as suspected timber poachers. Louis said they demanded money from him. Such shakedowns are common, if not the norm, here in Cameroon. Louis has a temper and knew he was not doing anything wrong so he refused to pay. The Gendarmes handcuffed Louis standing up to the door handle of the truck. They took the two truck drivers back to their headquarters many miles away. They left Louis chained to the truck for the next two days. Louis said he could not sit or lay down and could not rip the door handle off to get free. He said Pygmies from the area found him chained to the truck. They knew him as they had met him and knew Louis as a friend to Father Penda who had grown up in this area and was well liked and respected by all tribes in the area. The Pygmies brought Louis water, cassava and bush meat (antelope heart or liver) they had killed in the area. They did not have tools to free him but they stayed in the area to look out for him.
Some two days later the Gendarmes returned to check on Louis and see if he had reconsidered their previous shakedown offer. Louis said when the Gendarmes got near the Pygmies hid in the bush nearby. One of the Pygmies spoke enough French to threaten the Gendarmes that if they did not release Louis they would kill them all. The Pygmies were armed with poison tipped spears and arrows and their threats were serious and sincere. The Pygmies prudently never stepped out where the Gendarmes could see them or use their guns on them. The Gendarmes unlocked Louis and he immediately and angrily attacked the man Sergeant in charge. In his weakened condition Louis could not stand well and the Gendarme escaped. He and his cohorts immediately fled the area. Louis returned to Douala and reported the incident to the Gendarme Commissioner and the Gendarmes involved were disciplined including reducing the NCOIC from Sergeant to Corporal. This was the corporal I had met a few weeks before guarding the entrance to Petite Batanga and shaking down passengers in the bush taxis heading to the market.
Okay, a new basket for today - this one is a design used by people picking tea in the tea plantations (Yes, they grow tea in Cameroon) north of Douala, Cameroon.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3240.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1659446491)
This is a wide mouth basket with a built-in pack frame made of two riven sticks. Holes were drilled or burned into the sticks and they were placed as shown sort of angled and parallel to each other. The basket was woven with the material passing through the holes in the sticks.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3241.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1659446752)
I was told the loop is worn like a headband to hold the basket in place. An experienced tea picker would walk down a row of tea bushes picking the young leaves with both hands and tossing them over each shoulder into the basket. When full the basket would be emptied into a larger container.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3243.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1659447482)
Here is a close-up of the weaving and where the slats go through the holes in the wood. I am constantly amazed at the skill of these "primitive" people. The sad part is since the materials are "free" from the bush and they do not value their time so they sell these pieces for a very low price. Other locals seldom buy them because there are so many of them who know how to make them and everyone knows how or has a family member who makes these.
Lynn,
Danny may chime in and correct us both but they are all a sub-species of the same grape. I have found the bronze or white scuppernongs growing wild as well as the black ones. Of course with squirrels, birds, coons and possums eating them they spread the seeds over a wide area. I found wild ones up a creek near Albany Ga that were at least an inch in diameter. They were dead ripe and just touching them would cause them to fall in the water below. I pulled the boat under the limb/vine and gave it a good shake and the bottom of my boat was covered with them. My BIL was with me for the weekend. He was stationed in Germany in the Army and going through a special school over at Ft. Benning at Columbus Ga and was spending the weekend with us. He had not had muscadines for many years and was craving them and ate so many I knew he'd pay the price but seemed to have no effect on him.
In fact when I was living or stationed down south when the muscadines got ripe I would hunt for them along the waterways in my boat. I'd look for trees that had washed out root systems and had fallen in the water with a big muscadine vine running up it. Often the tree would be dead but the vine remained alive. You could run the boat right up under the vine and start picking. You need to check closely for dinner plate sized red wasp nests and snakes. I feared the wasps more than the snakes. This was also a good place to set a bush hook as big catfish would be waiting below to eat the scuppernongs falling in the water.
Unfortunately I think we are about 100 miles too far north for them to grow here in southern WV. They do grow down in Va. Around here we have lots of assorted wild possum or fox grapes but no muscadines.
Danny,
I think I bought 37 lbs of cultivated black scuppernongs from a grower in Poarch Ala (near the Poarch Indian reservation) in mid August on a trip home to see Mom. We made them into scuppernong hull preserves. As you mention, when raw the hulls are too tough to eat and normally you pop the insides into your mouth, strain the seeds out through the gap in your teeth (What - no gap. Bless your heart.), chew and swallow the pulp, toss the hulls and spit the seeds out. Cooking the hulls makes them tender and edible. I squeeze the insides out, set the hulls aside, boil the inside about 5-6 minutes, mush them up a bit and strain the seeds through a colander, add the insides to the hulls, add a nearly equal amount of sugar and a cup of lemon or orange juice and cook them till they jell and pack them hot in fruit jars. On a fresh hot biscuit there ain't nothin better!
That is very interesting. I have heard about but never had any hull preserves.
Danny,
When you come up and cook the hushpuppies at the next fish fry I will send a pint back with you. :D
I would tell you to ask the old timers in your area and you will likely find someone who is familiar with making them but, at our age, we are the old timers. ::)
If you look them up on the internet you will find plenty of references and even some for sale. Some recipes use pectin (Sure-jell) but my MIL never did and we use her recipe. You do need to add some acid in the form of lemon or orange juice to help them "set". Most recipes call for 1/4 unripe fruit to provide the acid. Since we always used ripe fruit we just add the lemon or orange juice.
I used to grow scuppernongs on a chain length fence at the old house, lovely stuff. Made a really good wine that did not last long in the bottle.
Some beautiful pieces 👍
TR, I am sure that you knew how to remedy the short shelf life of that wine :D.
Okay, back to trapping, or maybe its fishing? Did you know a fun project to do with the kids is to put out lizard traps? If you have an old wooden fence or wood pile or such that has a lot of fence lizards or Anoles (Southern Chameleons) or such you can tie a live bug to a piece of twine and stake him out on the lizard's highway and the lizard will grab the bug and hold on refusing to let go and you can catch them that way.
Probably not going to help you in a survival situation but... :D
(BTW - if you're not catching any lizards you are probably using the wrong kind of bug. :D :D)
Not as good as beating catfish with a club, but better than nothing.
Danny,
I had considered posting about how to catch a python using a split rail fence with two chickens by tying out one on each side of the rail fence. The snake eats the first chicken, crawls through the fence and swallows the second chicken and is then caught between the rails by the two lumps. That is supposed to be a technique used in Africa. Would that have been a better choice? :D
I would leave the snake alone and eat the chickens :D.
They just ain't no pleasin' some folks is they? :D
I have eaten snake in my disturbed youth. But, rattlesnake, not python. I much prefer the chicken.
Did you know huge clams grow in the coral in the Red Sea? They completely fill the space in the coral or more likely the coral just grows in around them. The ones I saw were over a foot wide in some cases and had bright beautiful blue lips or mantel which seems to be the proper term. They would open their shells 3-4 inches wide and the blue "skin" would completely cover the opening. There would be a hole in it maybe an inch in diameter. When disturbed the clams would close for protection and you could feel the water pressure several feet away as it was forced out of this opening sort of like a hydraulic valve.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxima_clam
I've never seen or eaten the giant clams, but I have dug and eaten a lot of sun ray clams and some quahogs. We had it on the FFA officer retreat agenda earlier this week to dig clams, clean and fry them. The bacteria count was too high in the gulf and bay to take someone else's children into the water. The way we find the sun ray clams is to go to the bay at low tide and get in two or so feet of water and drag a knife through the sand (6" blade) and when you hit something that stops the knife, dig down beside the blade and it is usually a clam. The bigger ones are harvested and the smaller are left to grow.
When they farm clams, they generally take them off of feed a couple of days before harvesting, resulting in cleaner clams.
They have those giant clams in Rarotonga, but they are pretty rare now as they are apparently quite tasty. They are slow to repopulate because the small ones are usually eaten by the trigger and parrot fish in the lagoon, so probably only the ones hiding deep in a crack in the coral grow big enough to resist the fish crunching them.
In the marine reserves (where the glass bottom / snorkel tours go) they are growing them in wire cages. Basically collect some tiny clams, stick them on a likely chunk of coral rock, and peg a cage over top. Nothing big enough to eat the baby clam can get in, but they have full water flow and food / light etc. After a few years they can remove the cage. As they have been doing this for a while they have a number of them around the buoys that the glass bottom boats moor to. The fish also know the spot, the sound of the boats, and that the guides throw a bit of food in each trip. I think they know most of the larger fish by name now. :D
Cavey,
The clams we saw in the Red Sea did not seem to have enough meat on them to justify the effort of harvesting them. We opened a few to feed the fish and they did not not get a hearty meal. I think I got more meat out of the clams we used to dig at Parris Island USMC base and they were only 3-4 inches in diameter.
My wife and her friends would go collect them using potato rakes at low tide. We could keep in a 5 gallon bucket of water and steam them in the shell on BBQ grill, in the oven or over a bucket of boiling water. Our Korean SIL stayed with us the last month of my tour there and she'd get up and fix herself a meal of them every day.
I think some people added corn meal to the water holding the clams supposedly to help clean them out. I can't say if it worked or not. Maybe other can chime in to confirm or refute that rumor.
Did you know a common technique for catching rattlesnakes was to find their dens, run a garden hose down it then pour a little gasoline in it and blow the fumes down the hose? Some people used to squeeze the juice from an orange, pour a little gas in it and roll it down the den. The snakes come out where they were caught or killed. One of the most common dens in the south were gopher tortoise holes which the snakes often shared with the tortoise. Some expert snake hunters would run the hose down the den and listen to it like using a stethoscope and could hear the tortoise blowing or the rattles clicking to decide whether to gas the den or not.
Some people used CO2 instead of gasoline and hooked a hose up to the exhaust of their vehicle or a small GenSet or such and chased them out with the exhaust fumes. I well remember an old Jerry Clower tape where Jerry described running such a hose down a rathole and killing the woozy rats as they came out.
In many cases this practice is illegal now because many snakes and gophers were gassed to death following this practice. Gopher tortoises are highly protected in Fla to the point major construction projects will be delayed during certain seasons and/or until the tortoises have been relocated.
In my younger days if a slab had rats under it we would block all holes except for one on each side. Run a car exhaust hose down one hole and let it run. We youngens would be one per side with a .22 of some nature and pop the rats as then came out. A wild minute.
TR,
What is slap that gets rats under it?
Oh. I see said the blind man to the deaf wife on the telephone :D
My neighbor used to hook a hose to the exhaust pipe of a lawn mower and put the other end down holes made by meadow voles. When the voles bailed out the crows would make short work of them. I never got a chance to watch, but likely it would be better than anything on TV.
Did you know the highest storage volume with the least amount of building material is a circle (or at least that is how I remember reading it somewhere - or maybe it was in a physics or math class)? Bees seem to know this and they compromised with their hexagon shaped cells. While an individual circle would hold slightly more honey, hexagons have the advantage of adjoining, shared walls with no wasted space in between. I challenge anyone to show a storage plan that will support more liquid using less building material than a honeycomb. Add in the extra strength and support and them little bees look awful smart.
USDA APHIS | USDA Begins 2022 Oral Rabies Vaccine Efforts in Eastern United States (https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/newsroom/news/sa_by_date/sa-2022/orv-efforts)
Did you know the USDA has a program to vaccinate raccoons against rabies by air dropping rabies vaccine in bait by airplane over areas with suspected high densities of raccoons. We heard about this starting in our area soon on the radio in my truck on our way home a while ago so I checked it out.
I mentioned rabies in the last post but did you know another common disease raccoons get in our area is distemper? The symptoms are similar and if you see a raccoon walking around staggering and not scared of people in the daylight it could be either. The last time I saw one in such shape I shot it and called DNR and they said they knew we had rabies in our area so no reason to check it. They just told me to not handle it with bare hands and bury it deep enough other animals would not get to it and possibly get infected.
If a rabid animal dies and cools quickly, the rabies virus can live for a while. If it freezes, the virus can live for a very long time. If a rabid animal dies and stays warm, the virus dies within 24 hours. This according to a former wildlife pathologist. When I did wildlife control, I would sometimes put a suspected rabid animal in a plastic bag and leave it in a secure place overnight and then bury it the next day. Want to ensure that a carcass decomposes fast? Dump some water over it in the hole before you cover it.
lots of lore and good rules about rabies. there is one girl that survived rabies by being placed in an induced coma and cooled, to preserve brain function. we do this for people after a code (heart stops) and let them recover some. Not all animals get sick even if they carry rabies and the extension agent or your vet will know which animals are endemic in you area. racoons and bats are common carriers. It is also thought that possums cannot get rabies due to the lower body temp, but in theory all mammals can. there can be a long delay in symptoms after exposure like months later you could get sick. if you have racoons in your yard you may be tempted to let you dog out to chase them off. If you have only one and it acts sick, spare your dog, and shoot the animal. If a doc gets sick, they can be quarantined and watched. If they are stray the head will be removed and sent to a vet lab. K-State here. Kind of like the old Witch trials where if the woman survived drowning, they were known to be a which, if they drown oops. Remember Ol Yeller, and the song about Ol Shep.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Yeller
I was reminded of this song at a recent Vince Gill concert. do not watch this if you are a sentimental old fart, like most of us are.
Johnny Cash - Old Shep - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km0zHbxvwZQ)
currently vaccinated dog, cat, or ferret is unlikely to become infected with rabies. When an exposure has occurred, the likelihood of rabies infection varies with the nature and extent of that exposure. Under most circumstances, two categories of exposure — bite and nonbite — should be considered.
Did you know that rabies treatments are normally intra muscular now instead of the 21-23 shots to the stomach that used to be given? When my son was in his teens he caught a skunk and brought it home and messed around and it bit him on the tip of the finger then escaped. Because it got away when we called the local hospital to see what to do they said bring our son in the next day for shots. They were not worried about time sensitivity too much. They gave him a shot in the finger and right arm. A week later he came back and got a shot in the left arm. A week later he came back and got a shot in the R hip. A week later he came back and got his final shot in the L hip. After insurance our cost was $800.
A year later he came home from fishing with three babies coons he had caught in the road on the way home. When he got in the house they escaped. I grabbed one, he grabbed one and his buddy grabbed one. All three were squalling at the top of their lungs and hiding their eyes with their front paws. (A coon seem to think if he can't see you then you can't see him.) Our German exchange student had run to her room and locked the door. Our daughter and my wife were standing on the couch. My wife yelled at our son "Sean, you're gonna mess around and we are all going to get rabies." His instant and imprudent reply was "Not me, I've had my shots."
We gave two of the coons to friends and he got a permit from DNR and Chester went everywhere with him including the run of the house he rented at college. My daughter had a friend in the Vet school at WVU and they neutered and gave him the coon his shots. He The coon had a lot of personality and liked to play chase and such but would always bite if he had food. They used to toss him the coon a small crappie when fishing and he'd run under the bow and eat and snarl. He'd fish in the minnow bucket to steal minnows. He'd use a litter box but never learned to cover his waste.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 10, 2022, 10:00:22 AMMy daughter had a friend in the Vet school at WVU and they neutered and gave him his shots.
If your daughter does that to her friends, I'd be reluctant to hang out with her, no matter how nice she is or who her Daddy is.
Luke said that he was never going to WV !! :o
Boy are you guys a hoot. :D You should go ahead and start yourselves a new religion. I can only imagine the things you can do if you take parts of the Bible out of context like you do my stuff. ;) ;D
Poor guy. He probably never saw it coming.
Now we know.. could add this to the indoor edition too. Am sure others want to know.
Especially Tom...
Wonder where they shot him? :snowball:
Dad grabs record 104-pound Mississippi catfish ?by the gills? to catch it, he says (https://www.yahoo.com/news/dad-grabs-record-104-pound-233421528.html)
Did you know Mississippi now has a new state record Blue catfish? Apparently the man caught it 31 July on a Trotline in the Mississippi River. I don't know why the fish would not also apply to Louisiana since it was caught in a border river. Many states do not allow fish to be a state record unless caught on a rod. I suspect Mississippi also has another record for ones caught on a rod but apparently any legal method is allowed in Mississippi - which I think is a great idea/policy.
The man who caught the fish said it was very tasty. I noticed the other day the MM was having catfish for lunch. Looks oddly coincidental to me but I digress.
Yes the Catfish that we were eating came out of the Mississippi River. A Grandson and his "crew" regularly enter tournaments where the 5 best fish are weighed. Mine came from his last entry of 5 White & Blue catfish weighing 175 lbs. They were fishing the Mississippi side so they were Mississippi fish.
There is a Thai Restaurant in Decatur, GA with a spicy catfish dish that has a generous amount of green peppercorns that is one of the best dishes that I have ever had. Top 5 of the best fish dishes that I have ever had. I love catfish.
And then there is........LINK (https://middendorfsrestaurant.com/)
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I did a project at Murphy Oil there in Chalmette LA and stayed at Slidell and used to eat at the old ice house restaurant who had some good catfish. Thinking back though that was 20 years ago. It looks like it has been shut down and may be opening again. I did learn to love Oyster Po Boy sandwiches on that project. Shrimp and Crawfish were good but oyster were the best IMHO.
That thin catfish at Middendorf's is right up there too.
Since we have drifted back over to food/catfish again, do you know the difference between trotlines and limblines/bush hooks/drop lines?
Both are considered "set hooks" because they are baited, set and left out in likely spots unattended and the fisherman comes back to check, rebait and remove any fish he has caught. Each state has specific regulations as to if, where, how many hooks, bait, types of line and types of hooks to be used. Pretty much all states will require the users name and maybe license details to be attached to the line. The line will have to be checked regularly so the catch does not die and go to waste. In some states live bait cannot be used, others will not allow game fish or parts to be used for bait, some states require any game fish that get caught to be released/returned alive, some states will not allow wire or cable to be used, here in WV multi-point hooks are not allowed. In some states a trotline cannot be used over half the width of a stream.
A trotline is a single main line that is tied to a tree, limb, or stump in the water or on the bank and the other end is tied to another stump or a heavy weight. Alternating weights and floats are used to keep the line near the bottom or to raise it off the bottom as desired. Leads or drops are added every 4-5 feet in most cases. These are usually about 12-16 inches long. You do not want your leads close enough 2 adjacent fish can get tangled. There is stretch in the line itself that helps allows a powerful fish some play to wear itself out when hooked rather than tearing free.
The advantage of a trotline is you can set a lot of hooks in the same area where a lot of fish are present allowing you to catch a lot at one time. Also you can bait with different baits to help determine what they are biting and you can adjust the depth with floats and weights and help determine where they are biting and adjust your line when you determine the best place/depth to be fishing. I love putting a trotline across the mouth of a creek or a slow bend in the river.
Trotlines can be dangerous especially in fast current as you have sharp hooks and stretched lines and where there is a lot of boat traffic. Hooks have all kind of bacteria on them and cuts and punctures are common and slow to heal. I have had them break and have had boaters come by and cut them with their prop while I was working them and had them near the surface.
Bush hooks/droplines/limblines are a single line with a hook and sometimes a sinker and/or a swivel. They are tied near the bank to green, limber overhanging tree limbs and usually set about 1'-4' deep and adjusted to the current and conditions. The fish bites the bait, gets hooked and wears himself out on the limber line. They are placed in likely areas and checked daily or more often and rebaited or fish removed. Bush hooks are used to cover a big area and you can find which spots are producing and move or adjust other lines to the same kind of spots. They are generally safer to use than trotlines and can be pretty fast to put out and take up. I use a quick release knot, have a loop on the free end and roll them up on a board at the end of a fishing trip till the next use. Mine are usually about 8'-10' long and I set them with a bait (a live bream here in WV where it is legal) about 1'-2' deep. I love to tie them just above a big submerged log or rock and may tie several on a fallen tree top. Basically if there is cover for crappies and bluegills the catfish are coming to dinner too.
Catfish mostly feed at night so I try to bait my hooks just before dark and run them right at daylight. When camping or such along the river/lake running your lines a couple of times in the night can be very productive as you are there during the peak feeding times and not only can you catch multiple fish on the same hook, you replace the bait on hooks the small fish had stolen.
Common bait used is cut fish, crawfish, goldfish, chicken or beef livers, worms, minnows, live bream, cheese/stink baits, soap, etc. Check your state's regulations before you use any of these as some of these items are not legal in all states. I used to use "trash" fish I caught on my lines that I was not going to eat for my bait. I used eels, gars, bowfins and carp for bait as we did not eat them. They were good cut bait.
Do any of you know how to make and use a snag line? I once met a man who showed us a technique he said he used to catch catfish and said he was going to use it in the Alabama River. He called it a snag line and what I remember looked like a trotline only he tied his leads on with a special knot directly to the main line. He used single point J hooks and I remember he had sharpened them till they were razor sharp. I thought he said he tied them on about 2" apart but I could be mistaken. He said he tied out the line and did not use any bait - the fish swam into the line and got hooked and apparently multiple hooks would embed themselves in the fish. I don't know how deep he set the line or what kind of location he looked for. I have always wondered how the fish got hooked in a single point hook like that.
If any of you have experience making and using a snag line please post any details especially with any pictures you have to the materials, process and fish you caught on it.
Did you know the thick, fleshy outer husk of Black walnuts get infested with small white worms or larvae? I do not know what the parents look like but it is very common when removing the outer walnut husks to kind white worms or grubs that are about 1/2" long. As far as I can tell they do penetrate the actual hull of the walnut. In the Fall when the mature walnuts I often roll the walnuts around in the grass and gravel drive to scrape the husks off then pile them up to dry some and collect them later. Several species of small birds follow behind me and scratch through the broken husks and readily grab the little worms/grubs from the husks.
Did you know many lakefront property owners, especially in the south, install 4' or longer fluorescent lights on their docks just above the water level (Maybe 1' or so) and use these as fish attractors? When they want to fish they turn on the lights an hour or so ahead of time, bugs come to the lights, fall into the water and small baitfish eat them and the larger predator fish come to catch the bait fish. Many people also combine this with structure such a brushpile for the smaller fish to hide in.
An old buddy of mine on Lake Blackshear near Cordele Ga took it one step further with a roll of old fence wire which he called his lure attractor. When people came and fished under his dock they get hung and lost their expensive lures. In the winter the power company lowered the water level to work on their equipment and he'd go out and collect the lures hung there.
Five years sitting around and most are good and some bad. Never did husk these. Just let the elements do it.
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I saw in another thread someone was worried a heron will fly up and steal Jeff's catfish or bullhead out of his pond - and he may. Did you know a blue heron can swallow a 2 lb bass? Probably even a bigger fish. I saw a video of one down on the Amazon who was dragging around a 5 lb catfish. I never saw him eat it so I don't know if he tore it into pieces or choked it down whole.
On 13 March 2013 we were on a trip to the Everglades in Fla and I saw a bass beside a slough or canal with a largemouth bass that looked to weigh nearly 2 lbs in its beak. When I saw it I laughed and said to myself it had caught more fish than it could eat but the heron started tossing it up in the air and finally got the head in its mouth and, then with a lot of twisting and turning, he choked it all the way down.
I saw a Great Blue Heron catch a meadow vole once. I've talked to people who have seen them eat chipmunks. Utube has videos of them swallowing gray squirrels and Norway Rats; and huge fish. If I remember correctly, years ago when people were trying to get rich raising emus I heard that the emus were sudden death on mice.
My in laws retired to the Gulf Coast years ago. Her Dad always kept a couple of freezers full of fish and had made friends with Pete the heron. Pete would hang out across the canal most of the time, especially if we or any other guests were there. He would watch what was going on inside as well as out. He must have forgotten we were there one time and we met at the downstairs door early in the morning. i opened the door and we were eye to eye, Pete was waiting on his morning fish. Needless to say we both flapped off to our corner for a minute.
Herons don't tend to be fussy eaters :D
The small local ones are often stalking around paddocks looking for worm and crickets etc, but they won't pass up fish or frogs of course.
Birds are dinosaurs.
I can see UGA with a new mascot - Old Blue the heron. :D
I wonder if a large blue heron could swallow a war eagle?
Green Heron Identification, All About Birds, Cornell Lab of Ornithology (https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Green_Heron/id)
Did you know there is a Little Green Heron? Many people see them and never realize what they are. There are many on our local rivers and COE lake. They are one of my favorite birds because they have "personality". They remind me of a grumpy old man. (So does a screech owl.) Often they will fly off when you get too close but the bolder ones may stay longer. They love to hang around drift piles and walk on partially submerged logs and hunt for minnows, small fish, frogs, etc. They use the typical heron stalk, freeze, lunge hunting technique. Several years ago my wife and I were in the New River above where it becomes the COE Bluestone Lake and the water level was pretty low. Where a local creek entered the river was a wide mud flat. The water was so low we saw a couple of small mud turtles crawling around with their backs exposed. There were 2-3 young (That year's hatch) LGH feeding in the shallow water. They had very short tails and could only fly short distances so they let us get pretty close and watch them. One caught a good sized crawfish and my wife got a good picture of it. She brought the picture home and blew it up to 8X10 or 11X14 size and she uses really good professional camera equipment so we did not lose any detail. In the picture you can see the bug eyes and spread claws of the crawfish. In the picture you can practically see the the thoughts of the crawfish like a cartoon and the crawfish was thinking "Oh Crap! I'm in big trouble." And he was.
Quote from: WDH on August 17, 2022, 09:46:30 AM
I wonder if a large blue heron could swallow a war eagle?
I routinely see eagles taking the prize away from GBHs around here. Its like a daily occurrence so be prepared. I can hear the new UGA battle cry - Squawwwk.
Did you ever watch a heron fishing? No ballet is more precise or could be more beautiful. He will ever so slowly ease forward one slow step at time sometimes pausing with one foot in the air for several seconds. Then when he spots his prey he points his beak towards it, eases forward one last step while simultaneously drawing his neck back into an S shaped curve then he lunges forward with his face and beak completely under water. He may or may not come up with a fish or frog or crawfish. Sometimes the prey will move and he slowly relaxes the tension in the S- curve and resumes his slow and methodical stalk.
We watched and my wife photographed a big white heron here on Bluestone Lake yesterday along a shallow muddy beach behind an island. The water was calm and she was getting a nice, complete reflection in the water. I guess the heron walked 40-50 feet while we watched. About half the time he missed his attack but the others were successful and on one case he had a pretty large fish flopping as he swallowed it down.
My daughter and grandkids came up from Charlotte NC for an overnight stay and my wife and I met them at the boat landing and spent 5-6 hours easing along the lake and river above and finally stopping to let the kids fish for small bream with 10' fiberglass poles. The water was up and muddy from lots of recent rain and fishing was not great but they still caught 10-12 which was plenty for them. We laughed at the kids and my wife when the 3 y/o gd dropped a tiny fish in the boat and it flopped under her seat and it took them 30 minutes before they were able to grab it and throw it in the live well. I guess there was enough water there at the back to keep it alive till they caught it.
We saw kingfishers, lots of blue herons, several white herons, probably a dozen deer in and along the water, one early rising coon walking the bank and finally running up a walnut tree, dozens of Canada geese, red-headed ducks, an anhinga or two, one mature bald eagle, one young eagle who had just hatched in February/March of this year, 10-12 osprey including one pair who were fishing and made several failed attempts to land dinner by diving/crashing into the lake, several Little Green Herons, a red-tailed hawk and even spotted an eagles nest in a distant dead pine I had never seen before. It was a great day to be on the water and I will treasure the memories forever.
https://extension.psu.edu/cyanide-poisoning-of-livestock-from-cherry-tree-leaves#:~:text=When%20the%20cherry%20trees%20blow,will%20easily%20consume%20these%20leaves.
Did you know that wild cherry leaves contain cyanide and when the tree is cut or blown over in or around a pasture the livestock can become sick or killed by eating the wilted leaves?
Many farmers/ranchers try to cut down every wild cherry tree they find in their pasture but they try to do it in the winter after the leaves have fallen off.
I think that was the cause of death of several fine horses in KY a few years ago.
It's only the wilted leaves that are actually toxic. Fresh green is OK, and dry ones aren't toxic either. But wilted ones, say from a broken off limb after a day, are toxic, and animals dont realise.
But yes the risk is a real one
Cyanide, Arsenic, and Other Toxins in Fruit: Apple Seeds, Peach Pits, Cherry Pits, etc.: Facts, Mythes and Old Wive's Tales. Find Out ther Truth! (pickyourown.org) (https://pickyourown.org/apple-seeds-cyanide-arsenic.php)
Ian,
Thanks for mentioning that. I think I have seem our cows and horses eating fresh cherry leaves with no apparent ill effect. I don't understand why as surely there is the same amount of cyanide in a fresh and a wilted leaf.
Did you know there is a difference between Bison and Buffalo? We call our American Bison buffalo but the are not. Bison are native to North America and Europe. Buffalo are native to Asia and Africa (Think water buffalo/carabou in Philippines and Vietnam which have been domesticated. Think Cape buffalo and a smaller brown buffalo in Africa.) Bison have humps, beards, stubby horns and bigger heads and are smaller than buffalo. Buffalo have curved horns and smaller heads. Both can breed with cattle and produce young called Beefalo.
Buffalo in Australia had to have been imported and I think they are the Asian species. If our upside down residents there can confirm or correct that opinion it would be helpful. ;)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 20, 2022, 07:08:40 PMI don't understand why as surely there is the same amount of cyanide in a fresh and a wilted leaf.
It's a process that happens when the leaves are still attached to the broken branch or downed tree: LINK (https://extension.psu.edu/cyanide-poisoning-of-livestock-from-cherry-tree-leaves)
Did you know Hoyt Axton wrote "Joy To The World" (Jeremiah was a bullfrog)? Sorry - I hit a dry spell there. (BTW - Ray Stevens wrote "Everything is beautiful.")
If Buffalo and Bison can both mate with cattle and produce viable young (Beefalo), I wonder if they can interbreed and what would a Bison/Buffalo cross be called? A Bisalo?
Did you know Yaks can cross with domestic cattle and the females are fertile but the males are sterile.
I think it is a breakdown product of a parent compound. so fresh (like me) is ok, and old (like MM) is ok, but not the middle (like old greenhorn) of the two.
...
oops forgot the smile emoji. :)
Did you know different breeds of dogs have been bred and trained to hunt different prey in different fashions? Some dogs chase their prey past hunters who shoot the prey - think of rabbit beagles and deer dogs. Some dogs trail and chase their prey till it trees - think of squirrel, coon and lion dogs. Some dogs trail and chase their prey and hold it at bay - think of hog dogs and possibly bear dogs if the bear will not tree. A fox hound might fall into this category. Some dogs like setters track and point out their prey when it freezes like quail or pheasant or hold it at bay and flush it when directed to do so like spaniels. Some dogs chase, catch and kill their prey like wolf hounds or African lion hounds. Dachshunds were bred to go into badger dens and drag out the badger - they can largely twist their bodies in their skin for more free play to bite and hold their prey. Some dogs just retrieve the prey after the hunter shoots it such as most waterfowl dogs like Golden and Labrador retrievers.
My rat terrier, Sampson, comes from a breed trained to catch and kill vermin or tree small rodents like squirrels but his favorite creature to tree is a catfish. Who'd of thunk it?
We have have been dog sitting my sons new puppy and I am thinking of entering her in the next ugly dog contest. As near as I can tell she has the makings of a world class watermelon hound as she bumped one on the floor and it moved and she barked at it to hold it a bay till we came to protect her from it. ::)
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I have contacted Disney to see if they have any movies in the works about Pluto or Goofy and if she can't get the starring roll she can certainly get one as a supporting actress.
You must think that all Dogs are ugly, especially those from Georgia. I think that I understand why. Nobody likes a whipping, so it is understandable that you would build up resentment against Dogs. Along with Sensitivity Training, maybe some Counseling would help. Or, maybe you should try getting some cats. I am just concerned for you.
Danny,
I think you are getting a chip on your shoulder and maybe you need to take my seat in sensitivity training. I did not say all dogs are ugly - but that one is. Now all Dawgs are ugly but that is a different matter..
Sampson is a very handsome little knock around buddy. My son's Dachshund mix is cute - he's just retarded.
As far as sensitivity training it it kind of like being sued for slander where truth is a legitimate defense.
Since we have been discussing dogs (and Dawgs) did you know the most common method to train drug, agriculture or explosive detection dogs is to make it a big game for them? Their favorite toys or articles are stored with the item(s) you want them to search for and the owner/handler hides it and they go play hide and seek. When the dog finds the toy/article he gets praised, gets a treat and gets to play. By using different kinds of items and getting different smells the dog learns to search for multiple items.
When I was in the USMC at the Logistics Base in Albany Ga (Yeah - that's Dawg country) I ran the ammo point and had to get a selection of common explosives such as Det cord, phosphates, nitrates, commercial dynamite, C-4, etc. I ended up making little pens for each as they could not be stored together. The handler reported aboard with his explosive dog and every day he would work with him by hiding his toys in different bins to absorb the smell.
My wife used to train dogs (Shtzhund) and drug detection dogs. She'd get Marijuana from our local police or sheriff's department and store it with tennis balls in the tubes they came in. Then she'd go hide the balls and tell the dog to go search and when they found it they got to play.
In Bagdad we had a Brit with a working springer spaniel who was our bomb dog. I saw her point a side box on an incoming truck just like it was a covey of quail. Turned out the box was empty but in the past something she was trained to find had been there. Small spaniels worked well over there because of the heat where larger dogs suffered more. Also the small dogs tended to live longer and had a longer working life expectancy than bigger dogs such as shepherds.
I remember my wife taking her dog to a show for the 2nd grade class my daughter attended. They kept the dog out of sight and let Sharon lay a winding trail around the playground then she hid in the middle of a group of her classmates. My wife let her dog out then showed her Sharon's little stuffed bear and told her to seek and she trailed everywhere Sharon had been then pushed her way through the crowd to find her. Was the same thing they would do with a lost child or senior or such.
49 pages, finally got caught up. OK, Ill be the first to bite:
No, i didn't know that. :D
Do you know why Zebras are not trained to ride or pull wagons or such? The answer I have always gotten is they are not as strong as horses and could not carry the weight of a man nearly as well as a horse. They could possibly be used to pull wagons or carriages but they have short memories and are much harder to train than horses. Also they have a natural system of dominance and if multiple zebra were used at the same time they would have to be placed in harness according to this system of dominance. I am not certain if that would mean the dominant male would be placed in front to lead or at the rear to push the others along. I did not see anything about what gelding them does to this dominance trait or such.
Did you know the largest member of the weasel family is the wolverine? Other members of the weasel family include skunks, badgers, fishers, otters, weasels, martins, ermine, and ferrets. All are short legged generally slender predators and can be quite ferocious fighters for their size. As I remember all have a strong scent gland they use to mark their territory and in the case of skunks and polecats, for protection.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 25, 2022, 04:36:59 PMOther members of the weasel family include skunks, badgers, fishers, otters, weasels, martins, ermine, and ferrets.
You forgot politicians.
Oh No! And now this topic is in danger of being move to the Restricted Board... :o :D :D
Oh, I guess I forgot lawyers too? :D
That's funny just yesterday I was debating a 330 conibear just inside the jobsite fence as weasel repellant :D
Did you know... I have a bunch of old blue jeans that I wear when working up on my cabin (hence 'outdoor'). They are all sap and oil stained but I don't "go out" in them - just use them up on the site. One pair I've patched a number of times but now this pair is just threads holding on to patches and I'm done with them. So, rather than take them home an throw them out, I tossed them in the fire pit.
Did you know that they turn a VERY bright red just before they burn? I was amazed. I guess the dye used has a red base?
From what I have seen on American Pickers and various fashion shows they were probably worth at least $150/pair. :D
I am bad about wearing patched pants and shirts around here working on the mill all the time and my wife chastises me most severe when I forget and wear one of them to town.
A little off the normal (but close enough for government work): Did you know that gourds are grown for use as storage containers? The small necked versions are used for storing liquids and round ones, which can be up to 2' in diameter, are used for bowls. The outer rind grows very hard and the soft inner liner is scraped clean on the round ones after they are cut in half. The slender necked versions typically have the end cut off, small rocks are poured in and shaken vigorously to remove the soft dry liner. A wooden plug is inserted in the end to seal it. In Africa I often saw slings made of locally made cord woven to fit the gourd and used to carry the "calabashes", as they are called, like a canteen.
Small gourds are commonly used for decoration in America but in Africa and South America and such some are cut in half lengthways and used as soup spoons or ladles.
BTW - Did you know the national currency in Haiti is the Gourde? ;)
Giant clams were mentioned a few pages back. Found a small one in the lagoon in front of our holiday rental. Not really "giant", the fish with it are only little 4-6" reef fish. But this is what they actually look like.
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Not sure what is a clam (or clams) in the pic. Think I can make out the fish. Need some help. But you are having a good time. The girls catching clams for dinner?
Quote from: beenthere on August 27, 2022, 12:40:21 AMNot sure what is a clam (or clams) in the pic.
The black zigzag above the fish is the clam's lips. If I disturbed the water, they closed up. The shells are covered with the sponges and algae that cover all the rocks, so they aren't obvious, and you have to just look for the "lips". They aren't common in the lagoon (past collecting for food?) and seem slow to recover numbers because of their natural predators.
This is a small shell the kids found on the beach. You can see the profile. There are shells on display close to 3ft across. The one in the pic might be 12" across?
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Good point on the clam. If they had brown or gray lips you would almost never see them. Their bright blue lips was how we always spotted them. They are really pretty and typically a big slash of contrasting color in the rock like hard coral.
Thanks for the post Ian. ;)
Did you know many of the big cats around the world are not well loved by their human neighbors? Here safe in America or on a vacation to Africa or Asia or South America we are thrilled to see a big cat like a leopard, lion, tiger, etc. We go to great lengths to protest anyone hunting or trapping and killing them. The local tribesmen living a subsistence lifestyle herding their cattle, sheep and goats and such do not hold them in such high regard. ::) They think of them much like we would a coyote and have no problem watching them get killed.
A dentist in Minnesota killed a famous lion, Cecil, a few years back and was quickly an international pariah. From everything I read the hunter killed the lion in good faith he was doing everything legally. I think his guides may have run afoul of the local constabulary for not having all the proper permits they claimed they had but at the end I think the hunter was pretty much cleared of wrong-doing. The lion was a popular tourist attraction in a nearby game refuge but when he was killed he was outside the refuge and drawn in by bait which is a legal hunting technique in the area. The local tribesmen were pretty confused by all the furor as they just saw Cecil as a hazard and a nuisance.
I'm not sure from the hunting shows and such I see if they are as popular up north, out west or in Alaska and Canada but did you know one of the most common deer hunting techniques in the southern USA is through use of elevated tree stands? There are 3 basic types:
Ladder stands - these look like an extension ladder with a little platform on the top. The ladder is raised and the platform, which is generally notched to fit the tree, is rested against the tree. The top and sometimes midway is tied to the tree for stability. You do not want to be 15'-20' in the air when your stand falls out from under you. In some cases these platforms are built large enough to fit 2 people in it.
Lock on stands - these are generally single seat affairs with a little platform you can stand on and a small, hopefully padded seat. These are normally attached to the tree with cable or chain. Access to the stand can be by a series of metal steps screwed into the tree at convenient heights to climb up them. In other cases climbing sticks are used. Climbing sticks are usually aluminum with off setting/alternating steps 6"-8" long welded to the main stick. These sticks are usually about 6' long and firmly attached to the tree with ratchet straps. Multiple sticks can be attached to the tree till you have the height you need to to reach your stand.
The third type is a 2 part climbing stand. These have a platform on the front and a cable or bar that attaches around the back side of the tree and is adjusted to the diameter of the tree. As you stand on the platform the cable or bar bites into the back side of the tree. The upper half is a climber and is smaller. You push down with your elbows supporting your weight on them and raise the lower half with your feet, stand up locking the stand against the tree by counterbalancing, stand up and raise the upper seat potion and repeat basically ratcheting your self up the tree. The trick here is not to try to go too high at each movement. Hold yourself with your elbows, raise your knees 8-10 inches, stand up, raise the upper piece, bear down with your elbows and repeat till you are at the desired height. The disadvantage is this type stand only works on straight trees with fairly uniform diameter and no limbs. You want to pick good healthy tree - a dead pine with slipping bark is less than ideal. ::) You climb down by doing the same process in reverse.
Many of these stands have rails you add for safety and to help steady your shot.
The advantage of the elevated stands is you can see much further and it seems to keep more of your scent away from the prey. Also the deer do not normally look up as much as they look at their level height. You place the stand near normal crossing and feeding areas. Camo netting to help hide you movement also helps reduce the chances you will be seen.
With all these type stands you need to use a good safety harness or belt both to help stabilize you when you stand or lean out to shoot but mostly in case you fall out. People do fall asleep in their stands and fall out. Sometimes welds, chains or cables break or slip and the stand falls. Recommendations are to use the belt as you climb rather than just after you are in the stand. I have had the bottom of a climbing stand fall out from under me. I use a short rope to tie the two pieces together to prevent this.
Normally you tie your gun or bow to a string and raise and lower it after you are in the stand or before climbing down, especially with climbing stands.
While elevated stands are great for hunting you need to use them carefully and as designed. I helped pack out a hunter with a broken back who fell out of a permanent structure he had built in a tree on Ft. Benning - he leaned against a dead limb before he belted in and the limb broke. Another USMC friend and co-worker fell out at the end of the day and broke his back and had to be medically retired from the Corps. I have a neighbor who said he had a climbing stand fall with him then the upper portion hit him and knocked him out.
On the positive side you can place the portable stands in great hunting spots and the sights you can see from them are amazing. Many of my best hunts were up in a stand watching the wildlife going about its normal activities and I never shot anything. I have been guilty of taking a pocket full of rocks and flip them from side to side and watch the squirrels and chipmunks running to and fro looking for the acorns that aren't there. :D
I like staying down close to Mother Earth anymore, but when I used tree stands it was nice watching birds and other critters that came along. It's neat to have a Pileated Woodpecker land on a nearby tree and not seem alarmed.
Yeah and there are those times when a squirrel or coon or such runs up your tree and across your feet or a small bird lights on your arrow, cap or boot and I have had them light on me in all three places. Or when you stay up in the tree till dark and a big flock of turkeys come roost in your tree with you.
My son was up in a tree stand and a bear decided to climb up with him.
Did you know many species of turtles like to climb up on logs and rocks in lakes and streams and bask in the sunshine? This trait has been used to help catch them as traps have been designed with a slanted surface at to the water's edge. The traps are basically a wire box which contain a hinged trap door on top. The turtles climb up and are dumped into the box of the trap below resetting the trap. Another technique my dad says was used when he was a kid was simply to nail fishhooks to likely looking logs with the open hook end up. The turtles got hooked with they climbed up the log. I suspect this this may no longer be legal in many states.
Turtle Basking (https://www.allturtles.com/turtle-basking/)
I see them once in a while while canoeing.
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Basking in Georgia in August is also known as severe sunburning :).
Going back to the tree stands for a second. I was probably 14/15 bowhunting from a ladder stand around dusk when I noticed something flying around. At first I though it was a bat, but then a flying squirrel landed on the tree right next to my head. I stayed as still as possible trying to observe it. Eventually it glided off. At the time, I didn't know we had flying squirrels in Wisconsin. It was a great experience.
Otis,
Most people never see a flying squirrel. We used to catch and keep them for pets. We'd go through planted pine plantations and look for small dead trees with likely looking 1.5" -2" diameter holes. Sometimes they would be in a dead limb in a healthy tree. Sometimes they would build or take over nests from other squirrels. A dead tree with split a couple inches wide was also a likely spot. We'd shake the tree or rub a rough limb on it like something climbing it. Sometimes they would stick their face out to see what was there. Often they would run out a foot or so and stop. If we were quiet they would often go back in the hole. Where possible we would climb and put a burlap bag over the hole and chase them out into it. Or if they left often they would climb then glide into another hole or down low on another tree and we'd keep the tree between them and us and grab them before they could climb out of reach.
Be careful shaking dead trees with den holes in them as they are very weak and the whole top might break off and fall on you.
There are designs for making boxes about 6-8 inches square and about 3' long with chambers about 10" apart. You install a hole in the bottom, cut out about 1.5" corner on the upper and middle chambers so the FS can pass between the levels, another hole at the top and the FS can escape out the top if a snake or such gets in. As I remember the bottom chamber is the nursery with mother and newborn and infants. Older adults stay in the upper chambers. You may have a dozen or more squirrels in one box and similar to large trees we'd find with large groups living there.
When I'd unexpectedly find and catch a FS when I was in the woods for other purposes I'd often take off my sock and tie them up in it till I could better accommodations. Socks work for squirrels and baby coons and such in a pinch too. Make sure they are good quality with no holes. :D
I've seen a few now. I was marking trees for a timber sale and was thinking about marking a tree when one popped his head out of a hole and then circled around the trunk a couple times. I left that tree alone, no point in marking a hollow tree with no good wood in it anyway.
I often leave hollow/ den trees and other trees that have signs of wildlife use. Loggers don't want to cut that crap anyway unless maybe its a safety concern.
Maybe it's a northerner thing, but I prefer my socks on my feet.
Howard likely rarely wore shoes growing up so he probably found other uses for socks like flying squirrel carriers and to carry extra june bugs until he could get home and raid his Mom's sewing cabinet for thread as he also probably flew a few june bugs in his youth.
I hate to admit Danny was right but shoes were for church wear only and it was sometimes hard to find them after a week of non-use. I think when we started high school shoes were required but not so in our local elementary school.
Otis,
Emergency situations require desperate measures! The other option is to take your shirt off and tie them up in your sleeve - if you have long sleeves. (But if we had on long sleeves it was probably cold weather. Cold feet or cold body - decisions, decisions!)
I guess if it is a big coon you will have to use your pants legs but walking through the swamp in your drawers (hopefully you remembered to wear some) carrying a squirming, squawling critter tied up in your britches might get you a visit to the local funny farm - unless you are in south Ga where the residents will likely see you from a distance and say "I see Auburn Beat UGA again this week and Danny lost another bet." :D
Did you know some of the most successful feral animals able to live on their own away from humans include pigs, goats, cats, horses, donkeys and camels in Australia?
In some cases dogs go feral but most have to have some food source from people to supplement their diet. There was a herd of goats that went wild on one of the Galapagos islands that survived by adapting to drink brackish water. I think they were later destroyed to prevent more damage to the native wildlife species.
The feral camels the US Cavalry released in Arizona did not fare as well although there may still be a law on the books there prohibiting shooting them. ::)
I remember reading about a guy who came up on a city slicker hunter out west. The slicker had killed a wild burro and was dragging it back to his vehicle. The writer of the article said the city slicker thought it was mule deer and said he even helped him drag it out and always wondered how it tasted. :D
Quote from: WDH on August 30, 2022, 08:05:31 AM... and raid his Mom's sewing cabinet for thread as he also probably flew a few june bugs in his youth.
No, I don't remember playing much with June bugs. We used the thread to tie out large horse flies we'd catch off Sweetheart, the family milk cow.
You have to be careful and not tighten the knot too much or you cut the head off them and they would fly around like a bulldog fan at an AU football game. :D
You take a 6 or 8 foot piece of thread and tie it to the june bug's leg. It takes off and flies in circles around you while you hold onto the other end of the thread. We also used to take cane syrup cans, put a hole in the lid and in the bottom, fill the can with sand, put the top back on (the top fit on like on a paint can. You could also use paint cans), run a wire through the hole in the top, then through the sand in the can and then out the hole in the bottom. We would tie the wire in a loop and attach a wood handle on the end and run down the dirt road pulling the can. It rolled like a mini compactor.
We also made slingshots out of an ash fork, tied a strip of rubber cut from an inner tube on each fork and attached a pouch made from leather cut out of a shoe tongue. I never hauled any coons in my pants, though.
We tied thread to big horseflies and flew them around (if we did not cut their heads off pulling the knot too tight). I don't remember doing that with June bugs. I well remember the old cane syrup cans with the snap on lids like paint cans but we never made construction toys out of them.
Kids don't know about making homemade toys any more. Below is a picture of a toy truck I saw and bought off a kid in Guinea in West Africa. He wanted 1,000 Guinea francs (14 cents at the time) and I gave him 10,000 guinea francs ($1.40) so he was a happy little boy. The wheels are plastic pop bottle wheels with wire for axles.
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I guess it is a tanker truck. :D The cargo (the used Pet milk can) comes out. The engine is a piece of string tied to a stick.
While I was getting it out to take the picture I decided to add a shot of my 4 monkeys carving. Everybody knows the see, hear and speak no evil. This artist took it to the next level. ;)
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Tip Tyler tied a thread pulled from his cross-country sweats and tied it to a house fly leg. on the bus ride home it could barely fly so flew along hovering in the air dangling the string. high school fun.
Back when we had our horse ranch, we would get pine shavings delivered for bedding. The smell from the fresh pine would attract pine boring beetles. They were about 3" long with nearly as long antenna and could fly. At work, we had "desk top" computers but usually had the CPU down on the floor under the desk. You would have to reach under to turn it on. Sooo, I took one and tied on a thin piece of wire and anchored it near the switch of one of my co-workers. Boy, was he surprised! :D Later, he was walking around the office holding the loose end of the wire while the beetle flew in circles above his head.
I didnt know any of these things either. :(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Camel_Corps#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20Camel%20Corps,adopt%20them%20for%20military%20use.
I mentioned above but did you know experiments were on-going using camels for transport and other use in the American desert when the War for Southern Independence broke out and the efforts were abandoned?
Camels are amazing animals and will get fat and thrive where a billy goat would starve to death. They will eat rough forage other animals will not or cannot eat. A big camel can probably carry 400-600 lbs of supplies. Their padded feet let them travel across soft sand and do not dig in or do as much damage as hoofed animals. My understanding is many have gone feral in Australia and have not done nearly the damage goats and pigs have done. They pretty much fit into the environment.
While I was working a project in Saudi Arabia I drove along a remote road with a power line on the side. Under the narrow shade of every power pole you would find a camel or two resting. It was not much shade but it was all there was and they did not waste it.
Did you know baboons are omnivores and will readily eat eggs, small birds, insects, grubs, small mammals and anything else they can catch?
I had a friend who told me once he saw a big chicken house in Saudi with chain link fence wire around it to protect the chickens inside. He said he'd pass by and he'd see several baboons hanging on the wire drooling at the thought of a fresh chicken dinner. I bet a scientific study would have proved the chickens would lay more eggs without the baboons staring at them like that. :D
Did you know monkeys have long memories? They had a small zoo near Albany Ga with monkeys in a cage and a buddy of mine came by and saw them begging for food and treats with their paws outstretched. He said he had one of those hot cinnamon "Atomic Bomb" candies in his mouth. He said he had worked it long enough the sweet coating was dissolved and it was down to the hot part. Jack tossed it to the biggest monkey and all the others started chasing him trying to steal it so he popped it in his mouth and swallowed it then he really started screaming. Jack said for many years if he came back through that zoo when he walked near the monkey pen that old monkey would see him and start screaming and throwing things and jumping around in the pen.
Did you know that before the Spanish introduced the horse to North America the Indian tribes were limited to living along the dependable waterways. They could not travel over a day or two walk from water because they could not carry enough water to survive. By using the horse they were able to expand their range exponentially.
Did you know old timers always said not to get the meat wet when butchering game or livestock. I understand water water encourages E coli bacteria growth but I am not sure the benefits are not out-weighed when cleaning up blood shot or gut shot animals. Anyone with knowledge and experience in this area are invited to comment. ???
Absolutely right! Keep it dry as possible unless you gut shot then you need to pretty much rinse out before it becomes tainted
Did you know that clams and scallops can move in the sand and water? Clams have a sort of false foot they can extend out and pull/push themselves along in the sand. Scallops use something like jet propulsion by flapping their shell haves to force water water outward allowing them to "swim".
The Tigers do that like the scallops do trying to get away when the Dawgs come to town.
Did you know that when a bird lays an egg the blunt end comes out first? Looks like it would be easier if the pointy end came out first doesn't it?
Keeps the oviduct from snapping shut. Thought you knew that. :snowball: ;D
Did you know some species of fish have flat bodies and typically they hide in the sand at the bottom of the ocean? Flounders, skates, angel sharks, and rays lie in wait for their prey hidden in the sand till their prey comes by and they lunge out and catch them when they get in range.
Did you know a common practice to harvest flounders in shallow water is to gig them with a small diameter spear or gig on a short handled pole? The gig does not typically have a barb on it as most fish or frog gigs have. You walk walk around in shallow water shining a bright light down and when you spot the flounder's eye or body shape you gig straight down and pin it to the bottom then reach underneath and push him up onto the gig so he doesn't slide off. Once out of the water the fish is placed in a tub or small boat towed by the fisherman and the spear is removed. Some people use an old tractor tire tube with a washtub in the center and tow it behind them for their catch. I assume use of a boat or tub/tube is to keep the smell of the blood away from sharks in the area. Similarly when scuba diving and spear fishing one technique commonly used to carry the fish was to have then on stringer or a big clip like a safety pin looking affair attached to a float on a long line the diver towed behind him. If a shark came after the fish they were a good way off and the diver was safer.
Be careful identifying the flounders body shape as I always heard of people who gigged their feet in the sand. ::)
Did you know the old mountain men used to make a small round boat called a bull boat to cross streams and lakes when needed? They used limber willow limbs/shoots to make a frame and covered it with a buffalo hide. I understand they were not particularly stable, steering was non-existent and they certainly were not built for speed but they were very quick to build. I don't know what they used for paddles. I assume they mostly just used a pole to push and paddle the boat across the water.
Did you know a Granddady long legs is not a spider? He is in a group called Harvestmen.
Did you know game trails invariably lead to water, food or sheltering areas for the animals that make them? Many, such as deer trails, may only be a few inches wide while others such as elephant trails may be wide enough to ride an ATV down them. The trails nearly always follow the easiest terrain available for the area as wild animals do not waste any excess energy if they can help it. Many of the roads in America started as narrow game trails that widened to horse or pack animal trails, then cart and wagon trails and finally the modern highways we have today.
What used to amaze me was to be out in desert in Saudi on Namibia somewhere and to see the distinct 8-10 inch wide, well beaten down path of a game trail through the dry clay, sand and rocks. To the untrained eye the whole area looked the same but the animals had made and used clear trails over the years.
Also here in the mountains of WV I have found many deer trails after a snowfall. When the snow starts to melt the last place it melts will be where it built up on the flatter deer trails. I have stood below and looked up and could see trails on the side of the slope I did know existed. It looked like they had been painted in place.
The Calf-Path (https://poets.org/poem/calf-path)
Lynn,
Must have been a Mississippi calf as ours here head straight home. :D
Nice poem and thought provoking in many ways. ;)
In 1973, my Manager presented that poem to this newly promoted Supervisor.
Did you know the V shaped formation ducks and geese make when migrating helps create a wind draft so the birds in the rear do not have to work as hard as if they were flying alone? The bird behind encounters less wind resistance. Apparently they switch places from time to time as they get tired and the leaders fall back into the ranks to rest a bit.
Did you know the wind coming off migrating ducks often makes a whistling sound? I don't know the physics behind it but it is pretty neat to hear.
Did you know that animals, humans included, digest the food they eat through use of bacteria in their stomach and gut? I remember when I was in college hearing about a study they did with termites. They zapped the termite with enough radiation to kill the bacteria in his gut but not enough to harm the bug. They said the termite could still eat all the wood he wanted but still starved to death. Maybe we can use this fact to develop a new diet plan. Take a pill or get zapped then go eat anything you want for a long as you want and still lose weight. I guess we better figure a way to turn the bacteria back on before we market the idea. ::)
I know someone did that with a chocolate covered hookworm then used a second pill to kill the worm but the USDA found out about the "active ingredient" and killed that plan. I think I remember reading where people did eat or get exposed to something that killed the good bugs in our belly and had to have them re-started. As I remember it was not a real pleasant idea.
fecal transplant with someone else's poo.
Eating live culture yogurt helps restore bacteria to your gut.
FWIW - if I start unexplainedly losing weight I'm going to KEC for treatment instead of to an unnamed doctor in Kansas. :D
Did you know that animals and birds that live in communal societies often develop various calls and sounds especially to warn others in the community of danger? Prairie dogs have a special call to let others know when a rattlesnake, hawk, eagle or owl are in the area. Baboons keep an active sentry on a high perch overlooking the troop and warn the rest when a leopard or such is spotted. Anyone who has hunted turkeys knows the excited yelps and gobbles an excited gobbler makes when calling to a hen but the hunter is also probably familiar with the loud/raucous and distinct "Putt, Putt, Putt" of a turkey who has spotted the hunter and is telling all the other turkeys in the area it is time to go! He is normally heard making this sound at a dead run away from your blind. ::) Squirrels jump up on a limb and violently swish their tail at chatter and hunters, predators and unwelcome visitors in their area and warn any others in the area.
I noticed when my wife would call the crows to come help with a hawk eyeing her chickens, when one picked up the call he came in then went up to let the world know. They weren't running, it was pin the tail on the donkey time :D
Did you know that some animals have very poor eyesight? Examples include elephants, rhinos, hogs, armadillos and skunks.
I have seen armadillos run into stumps, truck tires and fences when alarmed. Hogs have a very good sense of smell but if you are quiet and stay downwind of them you can stalk them within gun range. Skunks will try to run but if they realize they can't outrun the threat they stop and stand their ground. I always took it as an article of faith about elephants and rhinos and never attempted to encroach on their area.
I would argue that skunks have better eyesight than many think. They don't get too exited about your presence (usually) until you get close, but that doesn't mean they don't see you. I got a call once about a skunk that was frantically trying to claw its' way into a dog kennel to get at the dog. When I pulled up I saw the skunk which, at first, ignored me. As soon as I started toward it it came at me at a dead run from ~30 yards. I had a single shot .22 in one hand and a re-rod stake in the other. Got him with the .22 at about 10'; probably rabid. I think Black Bears can see better than some think but also don't percieve you to be a problem until you're close. I have run up to skunks and raccoons in order to get them to stand their ground, then put a pole snare on the coon or shoot the skunk or administer blunt force trauma.
KEC,
Since I have never personally administered an eye chart to a skunk I will not challenge your assessment/opinion about whether they are near-sighted or not. :D
As far as him charging you I have had many animals run at me when excited so I would not rule that out as an option. I know of a couple of deer I shot that charged after my first shot. In one case I got there to find 2 laying 10' apart. On the other case I questioned if it was the same deer and walked to where I thought I had seen the deer and found a blood trail and trailed it 80 yards before I found it. After the shot I briefly lost eyes on the target as I rode out the recoil. In neither case had I seen more than one deer. BTW - in both cases fortunately I had legal tags for both pairs of deer and legally tagged both of them.
I have a friend who said he shot 3 bucks like that one time. He shot and the deer went down behind a small brush pile then jumped back up and he shot again then the deer would go down and jump up again and he shot again. He walked over and found 3 dead bucks piled up side by side.
I have had several friends talk about getting run over by hogs when they got in too tight with them. I don't know if they were attacking or just looking for an escape route.
Did you know you just about need to wear a hard hat to walk through the woods here in WV right now because of all the acorns and walnuts falling? I have several White and Chestnut oaks over my barn and several walnuts in the yard. The acorns are dropping really steadily and the walnuts are falling in my drive. I have to be careful where I park my truck and when I go to the trash bin or mail box. I've posted before I used to take a pocket full of rocks up in my climbing tree stand while bow hunting and when I was bored I'd flip them from side to side to make the squirrels and chipmunks run back and forth to look for the "Acorn" fell. In some cases you can nearly get a fight started when 2 arrive at the same time and one thinks the other beat him to the nut. :D
Did you know that baby bobwhite quail and several other species of birds take cover including even pulling a dry leaf over them and freeze when they are threatened? Often the parents will try to lure the predator away by acting like they are injured. I have seen quail, killdeer, wild turkeys, Ostriches, huge cranes in Mongolia and other birds pull the "broken wing" act. I have seen domestic (?) guinea peeps hide just like baby quail, They were also naturally camoflaged and very hard to spot. I have found baby quail hiding only because I spotted a tiny hint of their yellow beaks.
Grouse are really good at the broken wing act. I've had them come running back if I continue to go where I was headed, "No wrong way, I'm the one with the pretend broken wing :D"
I looked back through this thread and did not see where we had specifically talked about squirrel hunting although we talked about them in several cases. Since our WV squirrel season is open maybe this is a good time.
Did you know there are several methods to hunt squirrels? One tried and true method is to still hunt them like deer or other game. You find a likely spot, preferably near a preferred food source like an oak full of acorns or a hickory full of nuts and you simply sit on a comfortable stump or log and sit still and wait for the squirrel to come out and feed then you shoot him. You can rub 2 hickory nuts or walnuts together to make the sound of a squirrel eating a nut and call others in the area.
Another technique is to walk through like woodlots and such with a pair of hunters and when you see a sizeable tree one hunter stands still and the other walks a wide circle around the tree. The squirrel tries to keep the tree the tree between himself and the moving person below. You can do this a kid as a helper and let the kid walk around kicking leaves and shaking small bushes and such then the shooter watches the tree and bushwhacks the squirrel when he sees it. With old hunting age kids let the kid be the shooter and the adult walks around exposing the squirrel and letting the kid watch and shoot the squirrel when he sees it. This often works better late in the season when the leaves are off the trees. When hunting alone look for the tips of a squirrel's tail exposed on your side of the tree as they often forget or don't know it is visible and gives away their position.
While walking around look for leaf nests, especially well maintained one ones in wind resistant spots with a grapevine running up the tree. Have a shooter ready and pull the vine or shake small trees to hit the tree with the nest. If no vine is available you can rub the bottom of the tree with a dead limb and the squirrel thinks a predator is climbing the tree and will jump out of the nest. Start off slow shaking or rubbing and increase the force used if nothing comes out. Using the gentle approach often the squirrel will jump out on a limb for a look presenting a shot. With a more violent shake he will likely come out running and may even jump out of the tree to the ground for some difficult shots.
The most effective way to hunt squirrels is with a trained dog who walks through the woods ahead of the hunter and when he sees or smells the squirrel he chases it up a tree and sits at the base barking at it till the hunters comes and shoot the squirrel. Many squirrel dogs are small terrier or mixed breeds but almost any breed will sometimes turn out a good squirrel dog. Old coonhounds often make good squirrel dogs but they sometimes take too long working out a trail of a single squirrel while a small mixed breed who hunts by sight and smell may tree 3-4 to every one the hounds finally trees. The best squirrel dog I ever saw was a 17 lb smooth haired, curly tail mix I owned/raised with a dachshund/basset mix for a mother and a beagle (or a good fence climber) for a father. She would not trail a rabbit like both of her parents but if a leaf moved in a tree she saw it and found as many squirrels by sight as smell. She also turned out to be a great coon and possum dog.
WV, have you ever eaten opposum; if so how would you rate it ?
KEC,
I have not eaten possum. Times have not gotten that hard yet. I have pulled too many out of old rotting cow or mule carcasses to ever develop and desire to try them. Old timers where I lived used to pen them up and feed them sweet potatoes for a couple of weeks and such to "clean them out" before eating them. I think most folks wanted the skin on and dipped them in scalding water and scraped the hair off and ate the skin too.
Sow if you want to know about armadillo, coon, squirrel, rabbit, gopher tortoise, alligator/camian/crocodile, monitor lizard, porcupine, etc, I can give you a taste analysis. :D
Note to self - we just returned from grocery shopping. I may have to rethink eating that possum. ::)
Did you know that most raptors have a preferred food source? Ospreys and Bald eagles mostly catch fish. Red tailed and Cooper's Hawks prefer small mammals such as squirrels, chipmunks, rabbits, etc. Golden eagles prefer small to medium mammals such as rabbits, lambs and kids from mountain sheep and goats and such but will sometimes take foxes. I gather owls mostly catch nocturnal mammals such as rabbits, mice and rats. I have seen both hawks and eagles flying over with snakes in their claws.
I watched an episode on the Outdoor Channel filmed in Alabama where they divided up into teams and were hunting squirrels with good squirrel dogs and high end air rifle pellet guns. There were also two people in the group with trained red-tailed hawks. When the dog would tree a squirrel they would release a hawk and he'd fly up and circle the tree and grab the squirrel. One squirrel ran into a nest and the hawk tore that nest apart but came out with the squirrel in his claws. Another time the squirrel jumped out of the tree and the hawk flew after him and actually jumped around on the ground a few hops before he grabbed it.
I have seen them while hunting swoop in and grab chipmunks and one circled a tree in front of me a couple of times after a bug red fox squirrel. I thought the squirrel had escaped then saw the hawk had him securely in his claws by the base of his tail. The hawk settled down then looked up and spotted me and dropped the squirrel and flew away. A couple of minutes later the squirrel jumped up. Hopped on a fallen log and rested a few seconds then ran off on the ground. I assume he totally recovered as the states luckiest fox squirrel. :D
Coopers Hawks are classified as accipiters, as such they eat a lot of birds. I did watch a Coopers Hawk get a Red Squirrel once. Around here they seem to have a sweet tooth for Mourning Doves and pigeons (Rock Pigeons). The similar, though smaller Sharp-shinned Hawk I think is more of a strict bird eater. I throw bird seed under an old picnic table in the back yard in the winter. I like to think that they are safer feeding there. One time a Red-bellied Woodpecker went up under the table to cling to a brace and rest. I felt so gratified that I kept that table to keep the birds safe. Suddenly, out of nowhere, A Sharp-shinned came in like a missile with a cutting edge guidance system and went under the table and snatched the woodpecker out onto the lawn, then flew off with it. I was deflated.
KEC,
I wish someone would tell the Cooper's Hawks around here they are supposed to be eating the doves. I have several Coopers visiting my place regularly and the bane of my existence is doves eating the corn from my deer feeders. They will eat it before the deer ever get a chance. I will have dozens of them stealing it every time it feeds. I keep a slingshot in each shooting house to chase them away but that still scares the deer in the area. I have even placed a plastic hawk as a scarecrow on site but they ignore him. My Coopers hawks always hang out where the squirrels and chipmunks are feeding.
Did you know crows and blue jays and some other birds will gang up and attack raptors? I have seen them chase owls, hawks and eagles. Once in north Alabama there must have been 200-300 crows flying a big circle and calling loudly. Right in the middle I finally spotted a red-tailed hawk. Different crows would periodically swoop at him as he soared in a big circle. I never saw what happened to him but I don't see how any bird could have survived that many attacking crows.
More on food preferences for raptors. A few years ago I went with my neighbor over to Utica, NY and it turned out that the building we went to had a Peregrine Falcon nest in a man-made box on a high ledge. Some local people keep watch on the nest and we talked to them. They said that the Peregrines were bringing a surprising number of both Black-billed and Yellow-billed Cuckoos to the nest to feed the nestlings. I commented that maybe that's because cuckoos tend to fly in a very straight line from one place to another and the perigrines could plot their course to intercept them. Other birders thought the same. Cuckoos are common but they tend to stick to thick cover and are hard to see, though every once in a while one will land in plain sight as if to say " what ? never seen a cuckoo before ?" I think that sometimes they are so accustomed to people not seeing them that they get careless. They will come out of the center of the densest part of a tree, fly in a very direct flight across a road or opening then go into the center of another very dense tree and vanish. They like to eat hairy caterpillars like tent caterpillars and gypsy moth larvae.
KEC,
Good point about the straight flying on birds that dart around. I think seed eaters like doves, quail ducks, geese, etc. tend to fly pretty straight while smaller insect eaters like mockingbirds, warblers or bluebirds and such tend to dart around a lot.
Did you know that small agile birds like mockingbirds and jays and such will chase much larger birds like crows, hawks and owls? It is funny seeing a bird less than 1/4th his size chasing a bigger bird but a little mockingbird will be knocking feathers out and sending a much larger crow running for his life.
Did you know parrot fish are brightly colored (like a parrot) coral eating fish (with buck teeth) that live in tropical waters such as the Red Sea? They are diurnal and at night they find a crack or cavity in a big chunk of coral to bed down. They spit out a sort of spider web across the opening of the crack/cavity. A predator trying to get to them while they are sleeping at night will shake the "web" and warn the parrot fish and they will quickly swim away.
I have found sleeping parrot fish like this and messed with them and have had them rush out and knock my mask off my face and my regulator our of my mouth. I don't know where they found a new bedding area once they left their bed (kind of like where do wild turkeys go when they are scared off a roost at night).
I found that parrot fish was a preferred local fish for eating and sold for 15 Saudi Riyals/kilogram in the local markets so I used to shoot them with a 12" spear in a compressed air spear pistol I wore strapped to my leg when diving and I'd freeze them and give them to our Filipino and African workers who could not afford to buy them.
Back to the mockingbirds, yes they are very hostile to anything that gets near their nest. We've all heard the phrase "in the catbird seat". The bird that the phrase was based on was actually none other than our Northern Mockingbird.
Those parrot and trigger fish are cool. The smaller Picasso ones can be super aggressive though and will defend their breeding territory from anything, divers included. The locals in Raro call them Reef Piranha :D. They are only about 12" long, but will attack a person, and as their usual diet is coral, they can bite.
Ian,
I had a Picasso trigger fish bite a chunk out of my flipper on a dive in the Red Sea south of Jeddah one time. I had not noticed him on or near his nest and he let me know real quick I was not welcome. :D
Yeah, most fish swim away from you when you are snorkelling. Picassos are different. I've swum in the opposite direction a couple of times. :D
I had to give some butterfly fish a stern talking to as they kept photo-bombing my pics.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/DSCF6927.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1663920742)
Seriously I've got a picture of you. No zoom, no cropping the image, just sitting a foot in front of the camera :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/DSCF6925.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1663922625)
This was in a local marine reserve and snorkel spot. The fish were used to swimmers and probably expected food.
Paddling out further I found this freaking huge blue triggerfish (Red Tooth?) digging for something in the sand (a crab?) It was picking up fist sized rocks and carrying them away, and blowing sand in every direction. All the nearby smaller fish were attracted hoping for some leftovers from the carnage. The picasso and wrasse in the foreground are nearly 12" long, so the big blue boy was a decent sized fish. Probably spent 10 mins and 1/2 my camera battery just lazy paddling watching this circus.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/DSCF6978.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1663921053)
This isn't even exotic reef stuff, just the lagoon. The butterfly fish were in waist deep water ~10 yards from the beach. The Triggers and Moorish Idols maybe 50 yards out in 5ft deep water. Just park on the beachfront and paddle out to see them.
Did you know that clown fish are also called anemone fish because they live in an anemone as a host? The anemone is deadly to other types of fish but the clown fish lives safely in it.
BTW - if you look at a family of clown fish in an anemone you will never find 2 the same size? They will be progressively stair stepped down in size such as a 4" a 3" a 2" and a 1" clown fish living in the same anemone. You will never see two 3" or two 2" long clown fish living in the same anemone.
I have no idea why this occurs like this in nature but I can assure you after hundreds of hours of bottom time mostly in the Red Sea and careful observation that this is the case.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 23, 2022, 01:05:06 PMI have no idea why this occurs like this in nature but I can assure you after hundreds of hours of bottom time mostly in the Red Sea and careful observation that this is the case.
Clownfish are all born as males but the largest and dominant in a group becomes a female, and pairs with the next biggest male. The other fish are juvenile males. If the female dies, the largest male will change to be the new dominant female and the smaller males all move up a step.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphiprioninae#Reproduction
Ian,
I did not know that any animal, fish or bird could change sexes. Maybe they can make a new Jurassic Park movie using that info as the basis for their show.
Just think - they don't even have to go to Thailand. I wonder if they have a piscatorial version of a Ladyboy show? :D
They mention the juvenile males waiting their turn in the barrel but they did not mention that no 2 were ever the same size.
Did you know some tropical fish such as surgeonfish and unicorn fish have a horizontal knife-like projection near the base of their tail that can inflict a nasty cut?
After a night dive in the Red Sea I was cleaning a fairly large unicorn fish (which reminded me of catfish in flavor) and he flopped and stabbed me nearly 3/4" in the meaty part of my left hand pretty deeply. I flushed it as well as I could and slowed the bleeding with a pressure bandage then stopped at an all night pharmacy and communicated with the attendant that I had a fish cut (I pointed to my bloody hand and kept repeating Sa mock, Sa mock,) and he went and got me a spray on antiseptic and bandage called Op-Site and it healed without any infection. The more layers you sprayed on the thicker the plastic, breathable bandage it made. I have never found the spray in the USA but the treatment and the spray worked well for me in that case.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 23, 2022, 08:32:04 PMThey mention the juvenile males waiting their turn in the barrel but they did not mention that no 2 were ever the same size.
Wonder if it's a case of 2 similar sized fish would fight for their place in the pecking order? The loser would then probably swim off to either find a slot in another anemone (or get eaten). The stable colony was one where the fish understood their place in the order. So 99% of the time there were decent steps between the fish.
Did you know that some unicorn fish do not have a horn? There is a species of smooth unicorn fish that do not have a projection on their head. I am sure the scientists can tell why they are classified in the same family. The horned unicorn fish I saw in the Red Sea were generally much bigger than their smooth unicorn cousins. (The smaller, smooth unicorn fish were more tender and tasted better if the truth be told.) They all yielded 4 fillets - 2 above a center line of bones and t below on each fish. I skinned them like a catfish rather than scaling them like a bass or crappie or such.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 23, 2022, 08:32:04 PMMaybe they can make a new Jurassic Park movie using that info as the basis for their show.
I think the second movie where they found some babies they brought up that they use frog DNA to fill in some gaps. And someone said that some frogs can change sexes.
Yeah but if I remember correctly they changed sexes in the development stage not after they were grown. (I could be wrong about that.) I do know that with many reptiles the sex of the hatchling is determined by the incubation temperature so that all the baby gators or tortoises in a nest are the same sex at hatching. The clown fish changing sex after maturity was the first case I have heard of such sex changes in nature.
I thought the concept on the JP movies was that since all the dinosaurs were female they could never produce fertile eggs so maybe the males did produce after hatching.
Did you know that a deer can smell a worm in an acorn and will reject the bad ones? We had some pen raised deer at Auburn managed by the wildlife department and the handlers would go collect acorns to feed them. They did an experiment and checked the rejected acorns and found all of them were housing a worm while the clear acorns had been eaten.
Just read this article about antler growth. How do deer grow antlers so fast (https://getpocket.com/explore/item/how-do-deer-grow-antlers-so-quickly?utm_source=pocket-newtab) and it also mentioned a study down in MM's home state. They found that deer body size is controlled by food supply more than genetics. If small breed of deer were feed well, the first gen did not get bigger but the gen after did. Petty interesting read.
John,
Good article. I did not realize female caribou had antlers. I thought only the males in the deer family had antlers. I had not given much thought about how much energy and minerals and such it took especially for big members of the deer family like Moose and Elk and such.
We had a lifetime of sheds from one pen raised buck there at AU. From the first 3" spikes up to nice 10-12 point sheds. The biggest rack was when it was 3.5 & 4.5 years old. After that sometimes he had more points but the main beams were smaller. And this was deer fed a steady diet and did not have to scrounge and depend on varying mast crops so varying diet did not cause it. One neat feature was there was a specific twist in one antler and every year that made main beam on that side had the same twist even though the size and number of points varied.
Did you know sea urchins are edible?
How to Prepare Live Sea Urchin - Uni - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=how+to+prepare+a+sea+urchin+for+eating&view=detail&mid=54399D7C7EC119458D2654399D7C7EC119458D26&FORM=VIRE)
On my first assignment to Okinawa in 1977-1978 while in the USMC we lived next to a sea wall and we'd climb on it and watch the sunset and the tides come and go. At low tide the coral would be exposed and the local residents would walk around picking up sea urchins left in the tidal pools.
On my next assignment for all of 1986 I was stationed near the town of Henoko and I and a couple of others from the base were invited to a Harvest Moon Festival around October. The local villagers prepared various seafood dishes from fish and shellfish and sea urchins they had collected. One dish was raw sea urchin which I did not try. I also noticed the locals did not eat it until they had reached the bottom of a 5 liter bottle of Saki. Another dish was a local fish cleaned and gutted and stuffed with a rice and sea urchin mix, the fish was then wrapped in a banana leaf and cooked on a BBQ grill. I did try that one and went back for seconds as it was the best dish I tried. digin1
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 27, 2022, 12:23:33 PMDid you know sea urchins are edible
They are a commercial species here in NZ, local name is Kina.
Traditional method is to just take a knife and teaspoon to the beach at low tide, find some kina in the rockpools, split them open and scoop out the juicy goodness. Never really been that hungry. :D But you can buy "Kina in a tub" from most supermarkets or online.
https://www.sunzkina.co.nz/shop
Ian,
I'm with you on the raw sea urchin. Even the Okinawans I saw did not eat it till they had nearly finished a big 5 liter bottle of Saki. Since I don't drink I never got that bold, drunk or hard up to try it. :D
How to eat kina and urchins - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U2g3GN49BE)
Another version of me dove Uni commercially, among other things quite a while back. :)
Did you know an old whitetail doe who sees or suspects a predator is near will take actions to make the culprit reveal itself? If you've ever been "busted" by a deer you know what I mean. The deer will look intently at you and repeatedly stamp her front foot. Sometimes she will also snort at you with that loud distinctive wheeze through her nose. I assume this is instinctive and will often cause a natural predator such as a bobcat or mountain lion or such who are already pretty high strung, to charge prematurely giving the deer more time and distance to escape.
Did you know African antelopes do exactly the same thing with the front foot stomping and such? While on a tour in Kenya we saw a cow waterbuck walking through knee high grass stomping and snorting. A leopard had just walked through the area and she smelling him and was trying to make him charge so she could positively identify his location and escape.
It amazed me to see the same behavior in animals on two separate continents like that.
Domestic sheep will sometimes act the same way towards a herding dog. Like you say it's probably an instinctive behaviour as the sheep see the dog as a potential predator, and want to provoke a reaction. ???
Ian,
Good point. I think I may have seen goats do that too.
Did you know cattle, especially a big dominant bull, will paw at the ground and throw dirt behind him while shaking his head and snorting at someone or something he does not like.
smiley_bull_stomp
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 29, 2022, 01:24:57 PMDid you know cattle, especially a big dominant bull, will paw at the ground and throw dirt behind him while shaking his head and snorting at someone or something he does not like
Yup, it's then that you find out how dedicated to it's job your cattle dog is. :D A good one will rush in snapping at whatever it can reach. A smart one will look at you with a "You want me to do What?" expression.
I've seen a Border Collie taking a "helicopter ride" on a bull's tail. Bull got a couple of spins in before the dog let go and flew through the air. But the dog won and the bull moved.
At one time in the US someone was getting seriously injured or killed by a bull on average every 3-4 days. That was one factor in farmers switching to having their cows artificially inseminated. I don't trust any bull as far as I can throw him. In New York it used to be illegal to run a bull in a pasture if the bull was over a year old; don't know if that law is still in effect. Mature bulls' behavior is ruled by a lot of testosterone coursing through their veins.
Which is why you send the dog in first, and a good working dog truly is you best friend. ;)
Did you know catfish sometimes escape a predator but end up with a broken backbone and survive and their backbone grows back together leaving a distinct hump or curve in their backbone?
I caught and cleaned a channel catfish from the local COE lake yesterday with such a healed backbone. I know I have caught at least 2 others with similar healed injuries over the last couple of years. I don't know what kind of predators have been causing the injuries. The most likely ones I can think of common in our area are eagles, osprey, otters, or snapping turtles (and I think the damage from a turtle would be more severe). Possibly mink could be the cause if the injuries occurred when the fish was much smaller. These fish have typically been in the 3-5 lb range.
The fused area of the backbone has always been 2-3 times the thickness of the surrounding bone and looked kind of like a knuckle joint.
Fish get bent spine disease.
There would be a few salmon that would have it in each cage when I worked at the salmon farm in Eastport.
I don't know if spine would fuse or knot but they would swim crooked.
JJ
On the subject of bulls, bull hippos in Africa are well known to be very dangerous. A program on TV told a story of a guy who had a bull hippo as his "pet." Many people had warned him to get rid of it as they get more dangerous with age, especially around age 6 years. That hippo that his "owner" swore would never hurt him killed him.
KEC,
While vacationing in southern Africa my guide advised me that when a cow hippo has a calf if it is a female calf she stays with the pod but if it is a bull calf she leaves for protection of the calf as the adult bulls will kill a male calf but apparently have no problem with a female calf. Of course a cow hippo with a calf is something you never want to mess around with too. I was fishing on the Okavango Delta in Botswana and a cow hippo with a calf (I assume a male as there were no other hippos around) swam up close to us and my guide cranked the motor on our boat and beat feet out of there telling me there were very dangerous.
Further to the topic of mean bulls when my grandfather was 17-18 or so he and his brother, Uncle Jeff, who was 2 years older, were going somewhere and were planning on crossing through a neighbor's pasture/field and he had a bad bull who was pretty well known. They discussed what they would do if the bull saw them and got after him. They were both strapping young men who had grown up there in central Fla catching gators and trapping bears and such and catching and working mostly feral hogs they raised in the scrub for a living. Their semi-brilliant plan was when the bull charged to wait till the last minute when got to them then step to each side and grab a horn, stick it in the ground and run like the devil was after them, which he likely would be. Sure enough half way across an open field they heard and saw the bull who charged them. They implemented their plan exactly as discussed and miracle of miracles, it worked. They stabbed the horns in the ground as the bull ran at them and he flopped on his back and was kicking up a storm while they ran and got away. A couple days later they were at the local community store and the neighbor who owned the bull was talking to the store owner or some others. He said he'd spotted buzzards circling and he went out in the field and found his bull with his horns in the ground and a broken neck. Grandpa and Uncle Jeff went over and apologized and told him what they had done and offered to pay for the bull but the neighbor never would believe them.
I am not sure what to think either Howard! :) :) :)
Another tall tale.. 8) :D :D
It was a very wild and wooly time and area to live.
I think Great Uncle Jeff died before I was born. He had a big black dog he took everywhere with him. He was driving too fast on an old sand and limestone rock road there in Dixie County Fla and wrecked his Model T and got pinned under it. When they found him there was a sounder of wild hogs trying to get to him and that old black dog kept them at bay but then the dog would not let anyone else tend to Uncle Jeff either. The sheriff came along and finally had to shoot the dog so they could get Uncle Jeff out from under the car. The sheriff said that was one of the hardest things he ever had to do as he knew Uncle Jeff would have been killed before he got there except for the dog. Uncle Jeff ultimately died from the wreck.
Did you know cows and other livestock often eat acorns when they have access to them? In fact they will eat enough to founder themselves if enough acorns are available.
My barber is a local cattle farmer and said last week he took a bunch of yearlings to the sale and had one who had eaten so many acorns he had foundered himself and he pulled him from the load and did not know if he would make it. He also told me he had heard cattle could eat all the chestnuts they wanted with no ill effects. If any of you have experiences with cattle eating acorns and chestnuts please chime in with what you have learned.
I do know my horse and my mule used to love to get in the lot under the big chestnut oak trees and eat the acorns from them and I never saw any ill effect on them. Maybe they just never ate enough to hurt them.
Cattle will also eat pecans. Matter of fact, they will clean up your crop. :-\
Good point. I saw our old pet milk cow earing some overaged pecans we had thrown out. It looked like she was chewing and the hulls were rolling out one side of her mouth.
I always suspected Pet milk came from a special (condensed) cow! now I know cause I got it from the man who owns one!
Tom,
If it adds to your disabusement of me her name was Sweetheart and we raised her on a bottle after a rattlesnake bit and killed her mom so she was always part of the family and not just another piece of livestock.
Well I don't think I ever abused anyone and I don't even know what disabusement means, let alone have done it. ;D At least, I don't think so.
I just always knew that Pet milk had to come from somewhere.
Since some of us are talking about milking cows, did you know the Masai tribes in Kenya bring their calves into the owner's home at night to protect them from any hyenas, leopards or lions that might get into the brush fenced Kraal at night and mostly so the calves don't get all the milk from the cows? The women catch and milk the cows the first thing every morning then they release the calves to stay with their mothers all day while the cattle are out grazing. I would be surprised if the women get a quart of milk from their best milk cow.
The family homes are low roofed structures made with poles in the corners and brush woven tightly for walls and roofs. The walls are then covered with fresh cow manure collected every morning. The cow manure has no smell once it dries. The first 1/3 of the house is partitioned off for the calves and the back 2/3 is where the family cook, eat and sleep.
Since the area is very arid (and does not get much rain ;)) the manure coating lasts a long time and is easily repaired from readily available building material and time they need to do do. The homes are cool in a very hot area and provide a wind break from the hot dusty winds.
Did you read about the Walleye tournament in Ohio where the repeat winners were busted for stuffing their winning catch with heavy lead weights? They had won under suspicious circumstances before and while most anglers at such tournaments leave their fish for cleaning and donation by volunteers, they always took their catch home with them. ::) Since these tournaments are big money events the two are in trouble with the regular legal system as well as the DNR possum sheriff.
A little friendly joking around at a local free tournament might be expected and tolerated I think these two are in real hot water and will be lucky if they don't end up walleye food with boat anchors for ankle bracelets.
The wild story of the fishing cheating scandal that could lead to anglers being arrested - SBNation.com (https://www.sbnation.com/2022/10/3/23385120/fishing-cheating-scandal-weights-video-explained)
Does anyone here have a good cod tongue recipe?
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 03, 2022, 09:02:19 AMfenced Kraal at night
Hmm, corral, there must be a story there?
White oak acorns are a good bit lower in tannin than red oak. I wonder if that makes a difference in founder.
I can't think of the name of the spanish acorn fed ham. Chestnut would put that to shame I'd imagine.
Don,
Kraal is the African term generally used for a fenced in compound in Kenya and other parts of southern Africa. The fence/walls is made with brush, especially thorny Acacia to repel predators. There are a number of openings in the wall that are closed at night by pulling brush tops in to close the opening. The Masai build their huts into the wall and each wife has her own hut and her own gate. When a woman becomes engaged, or maybe it is after she is married, they find a likely spot in the wall a decent distance from the next home and make break in the wall and build a new home which becomes part of the wall/fence.
When someone dies they are normally taken a few hundred yards away and left for the hyenas and lions to eat. In some cases if the person is particularly well respected they will place the body in the hut and burn it down on top of him/her cremating them.
The cattle are brought ion every night for safety and let out with herd boys to watch over them in the morning. As mentioned previously the calves are placed in the hut with the owners at night for protection and so they don't get all the milk. After milking in the morning the calves are released to their moms and taken out to graze.
Quote from: tule peak timber on October 04, 2022, 08:21:52 PM
Does anyone here have a good cod tongue recipe?
New one on me.
But chasing it, found this recipe.
Cod Tongues (Traditional Newfoundland Recipe) | Girl Heart Food® (https://girlheartfood.com/cod-tongues/)
Thanks, something I want to try.
I never heard of eating fish tongues. I saw zebra tongue on menus in Africa but did not try it. I knew people ate the cheeks off cod and halibut. I save the steaks or nuggets off my catfish. I think that is the same piece of meat people call the cheeks on a halibut. They are a little tough but pretty good eating.
Did you know a handy way to carry corn/feed or such to a remote feeder or other location is to split the feed (normally sold in 50 lb bags) into 2 separate bags, tie the ends together and carry them across your ATV seat or your shoulder like a saddlebag.
I have one feeder I have to transport feed several hundred yards up and across a hill to a shooting house. I made up two "saddlebags" out of 2- 50 lb bags of whole corn and took the first up to my shooting house with the feeder which mounts with a simple twist on the 15 gallon plastic barrel there hung on a cable between 2 trees. I am really late int he season getting them put out but there is so much acorn and beech mast in the woods now I don't think the corn will attract them much till later in the season anyway. When I got there I found a tree fell this summer and broke my cable and pulled the eyebolt out of the poplar tree it was in. I staged the corn and feeder unit in my raised shooting house and hope the coons and squirrels don't do too much damage but the deer, turkeys and bears can't get into it. I went home and gathered some tools, cable and got my climbing tree stand but then had to cancel because my wife came out and wanted to go early to an eye appointment. I am sawing tomorrow so hopefully I can get the feeder re-hung Friday before I have to leave for Ohio for the Paul Bunyun show.
Did you know that driving over a pile of elephant dung can result in a flat tire? One of the principle food items for elephants is/are Acacia foliage. They will rip off arm sized limbs and eat them including 1-2 inch long thorns. They will digest the forage and the thorns will pass completely through their digestive tract intact. The thorns are sharp enough, long enough and strong enough they will actually pass through a car or truck tire causing a flat.
Did you know many mother animals will adopt a baby from another species, even a predator or prey species? This is especially true with new mothers. We had a cat one time who was an excellent hunter and was constantly bringing in chipmunks, moles, shrews, baby rabbits, etc. that she had caught. Once she had a new litter of kittens and our neighbors brought up a baby rabbit their dog had found in the nest on the ground. The dog would find but not kill them. The rabbit did not have its eyes open yet. We put the rabbit in the box with the kittens and the cat readily accepted it and it nursed with its feline siblings. All went well till it jumped out of the nursery box a week or so later and our other cat found it and hurt and finally killed it playing too rough with it.
I have seen where a pair of bald eagles were raising a red-tailed hawk chick they had caught. I saw where a lioness in Africa kept stealing and trying to raise oryx fawns. I don't think she would nurse them but she would protect them from the other lions but invariably at some point she would be away and the other lions would kill and eat it then the lioness would go steal another fawn.
This goes back a few posts about crows and birds of prey. Up at my cabin project there are big ravens (double sized crows). They are quite talkative and fun to listen call each other.
As I was leaving today, a big Red Tailed Hawk flew low through the trees and crossed the road. Right on his tail was a pair of ravens. I looked in the woods as I kept driving and saw in a thick group of cedars, the hawk landed on one dead branch and the ravens landed on dead branches in adjoining trees just above the hawk and about 10' on either side. The hawk didn't look too happy.
We talked a while back about color phases in squirrels and we are visiting with my wife's family in Mogadore OH near Akron and I spotted a black squirrel here yesterday. I remember my wife's aunt talking about them. This one was a black pine squirrel which is normally red rather than a gray/cat or larger fox squirrel. Maybe we can get a picture while we are here.
I, for one would like to see a black (melanistic) Red Squirrel.
KEC,
Sorry but my camera died this morning and I could not get a picture of the black squirrels but a pair came to the feeder at my wife's cousin's home and they were close enough I could se they were black phase gray (S. carolinensis) and not pine squirrels.
I see the sister thread about Texas hunting is talking about feral hogs so I'll chime in. Did you know there are feral hogs in Ohio? I did not know this but there was a booth at the Paul Bunyan show run by the Ohio branch of the USDA talking about them. They had a map of Ohio showing where they had been found or were considered common. They also said their program, as I understood it, was the landowner could report the hogs and the USDA would come trap them and vaccinate them and the landowner could continue to raise or butcher or sell them as they chose. I was surprised to hear that as I understood most states pretty much had a shoot on site and prohibited movement beyond the county or even the site where captured.
They are probably not as plentiful as many of the southern and western states. One local hunter heard us talking and said he'd hunted deer all over the place where the hogs are supposed to be but had never seen any.
They are mostly nocturnal.
That's definitely a factor but you'd think he'd have seen sign of them rooting and rubbing, their droppings and such and from our discussion I got the idea he had not seen any sign of them as well as not seeing the actually animal.
You can go days in the woods and never see a hog, then they are all over the place. Story was hogs would never migrate to west Texas, to dry, problem was, nobody told the hogs.
Did you know the surest way to be alerted about another animal coming into the area is to keep a close watch on the other animals as they will see and let you know as soon as they see it? Even watching domestic animals is a good give-away. Cows and horses will stare at a deer or fox or coyote or such so if you see them staring intently be sure to identify what they have spotted.
I went bow hunting today and a pair of yearlings, one spike and a doe, came out and suddenly they raised their heads and I kept watching and finally an old doe came out. Once I saw a pair of fawns start looking behind me and when I checked it out it was an old sow bear with her 3 coon sized cubs.
Which means that you had a very successful hunt! 8)
Lynn,
If you mean did I have a very nice time in one of my favorite places - yes I did. I did not get a shot at a deer as none of the three I saw came into bow range but it was fun to watch the squirrels and birds. One old corn stealing dove may be coming back today to look for some feathers he left behind. (I really need to replace the rubber on my slingshot up there as it is badly dry rotted.) There was a yearling spike there I'd love to shoot and may get more changes in the days ahead. Saturday and Sunday are youth hunt days which allow kids 8-14 and seniors over 65 to shoot an antlerless deer each day and I may go back and shoot one or two those days for the freezer. I could not shoot the spike unless I went back and got him with a bow.
I really need to look more into a crossbow as my age and sore shoulders are catching up with me and I don't know how much longer I can pull a bow. Makes me appreciate people like Fred Bear who I think shot a recurve bow up into his 80's.
Did you know that feral hogs are omnivores? They will readily eat grain, nuts, fruit, roots, grubs, worms, meat including fawns and young calves, carrion and just about anything else they find.
This trait makes them much better survivors in almost any environment but also contributes to them being the threat and nuisance they generally are considered to be.
Did you know that wild turkeys will gobble sometimes in the Fall and Winter and not just in the Spring during mating season? I don't know why they do that but they do. I went bow hunting this morning and heard 2 distinct gobbles right at sunrise. I don't if it was 2 different turkeys or the same one gobbled twice.
If it was breakfast time, maybe they were gobbling there cereal grains! smiley_turkey_dancing :D :D :D 8)
Did you know that, IIRC, the Army and USMC found that young men who were raised in the outdoors hunting, trapping and tracking and such were able to use those skills successfully in combat to help identify targets, ambushes and booby-traps and such? Well that seems reasonable but did you know that they also found that many young men raised is dangerous inner city environments with drug dealers, muggings and drive-by shootings, also possessed many of those same skills pertaining to situational awareness and self-defense.
BTW - the turkeys were gobbling again this morning and I had a yearling bear cub that looked to weigh maybe 60-70 lbs hanging around my in, around and directly under shooting house. He was funny to watch as it seemed like every tree he walked past or every log he walked under he would scratch his back on it and he sat on his butt at one point looking at his paws. My camera is the shop for repair and I did get several shots on my phone but I don't have the hardware/cables or knowledge yet to download them.
Did you know that fires (Grasslands, brush and forest fires) can be started by glass bottles or a piece of broken glass? If the bottle is out in direct sunlight at the correct angle to the sun and the right tinder is in position the sun shining through the glass can concentrate or focus the light like a magnifying lenses and set the tinder on fire. On many official fire reports "glass bottles" is a checklist item for cause of fire.
I have watched various survival shows where they used a plastic bag partially filled with liquid (water or urine for dramatic effect) and used as a lens to start a fire. One old Anthony Hopkins show indicated ice could be formed to do the same thing. I have not tried it but the theory seems sound.
WV, About the young bear scratching his back on a log, did you know that sometimes they get mange? I haven't seen anything about it recently and they probably get lice too. I wouldn't wish mange on any critter.
I knew coyotes and foxes got mange like dogs do. The bear's coat looked think and glossy and I did not see any bare patches like mange be he had something that itched.
Did you know people can get mange? I think it is called Scabies in people and maybe Doc H can chime in and confirm or correct that.
In Cameroon if traveling in country and staying at local hotels many of my co-workers carried their own bed linens to help avoid it as apparently the local hotels did not wash the sheets between every user.
I'm sharing some pics my friend Richard just sent me from Alaska. Looks like a freezer filler. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/alaska_richard_2_fall_2022.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1666012686)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/alaska_richard_fall_2022.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1666012726)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mange
There were cases of scabies in my Army barracks, among other things picked up while on leave. Pretty nasty stuff
among a few other things I would guess! :o :o :o 8) 8) 8) :)
Yes, self-propelled wildlife of various description :o
Thanks, Doc.
Did you know beavers are herbivores? They only eat bark and plant material but I have run into people who thought they ate fish and thought they should be killed to help the fish population. They have the same problems in the amazon with the Amazonian manatee which is a plant eater but many local tribesmen want to destroy them thinking they eat the fish. Environmentalists trying to protect the manatees concentrate on teaching the kids who in turn educate their parents to varying degrees.
Did you know the Gerenuk is an odd shaped antelope in East Africa that looks sort of like a Pronghorn body with a long slender neck and an ET looking face? The long neck helps it browse in the tops of brush that other similar sized animals cannot reach. It also has excellent balance and can stand on its back legs for the extra height/reach.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerenuk
Did you know the gauge of a shotgun, with the exception of a .410, is the number of round lead balls that would fit down its bore if made from one pound of lead? For example a 12 gauge shotgun would make 12 balls per pound, a 16 gauge would make 16 balls, a 20 gauge 20 balls and a 28 gauge would make 28 balls per pound.
The .410 is actually the diameter of the bore or the caliber so a .410 shotgun should shoot a .41 caliber bullet.
While losing popularity in the USA a 16 gauge was still the most common shotgun I saw in use in the Amazon region of South America.
A .410 would be a 67.62 gauge if calculated that way.
I had used a few different size shot guns for upland bird hunting, started with a (borrowed) 20 gauge side by side then a 12 pump then I had my own .410 side by side.
I much preferred the .410 except for the extra cost of the shells. The .410 was lighter, quieter and longer range than the others.
My first shotgun was a .20 gauge Remington Wingmaster 870 pump that Dad bought 2nd hand from a co-worker. I got it when I was 7 y/o so I have had it 62 years now. It still works fine. I may try to kill a deer with it this year just for the novelty of it.
The Ithaca 12 gauge pump I used was my uncle's, he bought it in Yellowknife NWT in the 50's. If I recall he said he paid $125.00 for it at the time and said he could have got one with the sides gold plated and engraved for $1200.00, not sure where he got the Stevens 20 ga.
I think .410 was a IGA, it wasn't very expensive but fit me well. I rarely missed a bird or clay with it. I also would shoot clays with a .22 for fun. (there were no houses for miles in that direction).
A few years ago I inherited my late older brothers little 20 gauge Stevens double barrel. I may have to dig it out and see it we have the same model. Maybe I should kill a deer with it in his memory.
I've been wanting to buy a Model 870 20 gauge pump youth gun for a long time, but I can't find one.
KEC,
Mine is not the youth model which I guess is just a shorter stock. Mine is the adult model. When I first got it I used to have to hold it under my arm to shoot till I got bigger.
When we had been married a few years I got my wife a 3" vent rib 870 Remington Wingmaster because she was using mine for squirrel hunting and had started referring to it as her gun and I had to stop that.
Did you know in Europe a popular hunting gun was called a "Drilling" which was a side by side with a centerfire rifle underneath? A buddy of mine had one. I think it was a 16 gauge rabbit earred shotgun and a 7 X something mm rifle underneath. When you flipped the selector for the rifle a rear sight popped up. I guess that was their answer to an over and under stack barrel used in the USA. As I remember the over and under generally puts the rifle on top and the shotgun underneath.
Yes, I got my wife a Ruger red label over under 12 g... but it was too big for her so now it is mine. It can work both ways Howard.
In line with the hunting and shooting.
A local guy the my brother use to work for had moved to England for a while when he moved back he was telling of how he went pheasant shooting, apparently it is on land that they raise and release pheasants for the well to do to go shooting on. Each shooter has a minder and after they are set up at their spots some other people called beaters go in the bush and beat the bush with sticks. The guy thought it was a bit odd that beaters were in the general direction of the shooting even though they were shooting well above their heads so he asked the minder if anyone had shot a beater to which the minder replied in his thick upper class British accent "oh no sir they are much to tough to eat"
On with the hunting theme I am reminded of the tale of a bunch of guys in S. Ga who came in from the hunt and one pair had not returned. It got pretty late and finally LeRoy came in dragging a big 8 point buck he had killed. They all complimented him for his success then one asked "Wasn't Bubba hunting near you? Have you seen him?" LeRoy replied "Yeah, he was hunting in the next stand and came to help me drag this deer for a while then he suddenly grabbed his chest and collapsed on the ground. I reckon he had a stroke or something." The first hunter said "You mean you left Bubba in the woods and dragged the deer out instead?" LeRoy sagely replied "Yeah, I thought about it a little bit but I decided wouldn't nobody steal Bubba."
Did you know that the male Maned Wolf from South America marks his territory with Urine that smells almost identical to a skunk? We visited the zoo in the Science Center at Greensboro NC today and long before I got to the Wolf's pen I had commented that someone had stirred up a skunk. When we got to the wolf pen one of the Factoids posted on the outside was the fact his spray smells like a skunk.
Did you know beech trees tend to hold on to their leaves longer than almost any hardwood we have in WV? The leaves will turn brown and leathery but stay on the trees. They are a common deer browse food because they are often low to the ground and all that is left. I doubt they have much nutrition but they help provide fill to help eliminate the deer's hunger.
Ya, I think the new leaves developing in the Spring actually pushes the old leaves off!
Did you know in Mongolia severe winter storms with hurricane force winds and temperatures down to or below -25* F called a Zud (Dzud) sometimes occur? The local herders build shelters in sheltered draws and run-offs using locally harvested poles (Mostly pines) covered with earth, sod and animal manure. Horses, camels, yaks, sheep, etc. take shelter in these enclosure due to the windbreaks they provide. The body heat of large flock/herd of livestock helps keep the animals from freezing to death. Animals caught out in the open without ready access to such shelters often freeze to death.
I've always read that beech browse is a deer starvation food. I can't recall ever seeing beech that appeared to have been browsed by deer. Small beech trees with the leaves still on make it hard to see through the woods.
I have the same problem with the beech foliage right now. It is really hard to see through but it will clear somewhat in a few weeks with colder weather. Right now many still have green leaves even though we have had a mild frost or two. I don't remember seeing the tips being browsed either. They seem pretty efficient at picking the leaves off the shrubs.
Did you know a squirrel can reverse his ankles 180 degrees which allows him to climb down a tree in a face down direction or up a tree head up? That's a pretty neat feature for a critter that lives in the trees so much of his time.
Did you know whitetail deer use their tail to indicate if they are alarmed or at ease by the position they hold it? I assume other deer readily see the white tail and know if their counterparts are alarmed or feeding comfortably.
I can remember my grandfather talking about shooting deer and he'd say "I seen him drop his flag when I shot him so I knew I had killed him."
Yes WV. I've heard those tails too. :snowball:
Did you know that bobcats and domestic housecats sometimes mate but they do not produce any young as a result? Apparently they are similar enough to mate but not genetically similar to produce offspring.
Did you know that the North American opossum (Sometimes referred to as Virginia possum) has the most teeth of any land animal in North America? He is an omnivore and will eat just about anything he can find or catch including carrion. He has several defense mechanisms but the best know is playing dead. One article I read said his drooling is another because other, prey animals see it and assume he is sick and don't want to chance eating him. I honestly doubt that as all prey animals I ever saw or heard about typically culled the sick, injured, old or very young prey animals first then tried to catch the faster, healthier, dumber animals when that was all that was left. It just doesn't make sense to use up the energy to chase a healthy antelope and leave one with a broken leg standing there watching. Man is the only predator I know of who prefers to hunt the biggest, healthiest animals rather than the weaker ones.
They definitely do play dead very well. Diesel man worked one over one night until I got him off. He looked dead. I thought he might be playing dead. I put the poor guy in the grass and 1/2 hour later he was gone.
Did you know-A bar-tailed godwit has flown for 11 days nonstop, at a distance of 8,425 miles (13,560 km) from Alaska to Tasmania, Australia. This sets the new world record for longest nonstop bird flight.
(https://earthsky.org/upl/2022/10/Limosa_lapponica-bar-tailed-godwit-Wikimedia-Commons-CC-2.0-e1666718857830.jpg)
That's amazing! He must have had a good tail wind heling him along. I heard that he left his watch and had to turn around nd go back and get it after he arrived. :D :D
Actually I had never even heard of a bar-tailed goodwit. ???
In the same vein I heard on PBR this morning that scientists had tagged Frigate birds in Madagascar and found some stayed aloft as much as 45 days. Wow! They were soaring and in some cases would go for over 30 minutes without flapping a wing. I assume these birds were flying over their home territories so did not get the distance record of the bar-tailed goodwit.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 30, 2022, 10:35:47 AMThey were soaring and in some cases would go for over 30 minutes without flapping a wing. I assume these birds were flying over their home territories so did not get the distance record of the bar-tailed goodwit.
Royal Albatross are the real experts at that. They are amazing to watch out at sea when there is a bit of swell and wind. They are like slope soaring gliders and will skim along the crest of a big swell with a wingtip just about skimming the water, then pull up, trading the speed they have gained for some altitude to glide to the next swell. Rinse and repeat, Zero wing flapping, and not really enough wing or tail movement to notice. Been lucky enough to watch them do this on a rough day at one of the offshore platforms
Some of the NZ birds they are currently tracking are now over the other side of the Pacific off the coast of Chile, while others have stayed closer to home around NZ and the Tasman Sea, and others are over by the East coast of Australia. They also mate for life and return to the same nesting site year after year.
You can look up each tagged bird on this map and see where it's been over the year. Some are close to 100,000 km travelled.
Albatross Tracker (https://docnewzealand.shinyapps.io/antipodeanalbatross/)
Our guide in Africa pointed out one morning on Etosha Game Park in Namibia how the vultures and eagles and such were all perched in big tree around the park instead of flying around looking for a meal. He advised us it was still too cool and when the temperature warmed up the winds would pick up and the birds could soar instead of flying and save the energy so they were waiting.
Our Turkey Vultures will sometimes not leave their roost for a whole day if there is no wind or thermals. Some shorebirds, such as the Hudsonian Godwit will go on a feeding binge just before leaving on migration to put on fat for fuel for the trip. And, their heart and lungs become enlarged. During the trip they will make stopovers to feed and sometime stay a few days to fatten up if the food is plentiful. During spring migration, many stop in the Chespeak Bay to gorge themselves on the eggs of Horseshoe Crabs.
If you live where maples are a common tree in your forest did you ever notice that while many maple leaves turn yellow before they fall off the tree in Autumn , if you look closer you will see they have small spots of bright red on them? If you've ever tried to track a wounded deer in a maple forest I bet you've seen it because it makes such tracking much harder especially if the blood trail is tiny drops such as when an intestine has shifted and blocked the blood flow and most of the bleeding is internal. If there is a good open wound the big drops/splashes are easy to follow but sometimes you have to track tiny pin pricks of blood before the trial opens up again.
Did you know that some birds will use a tree fork or split as a vice and put a nut or kernel of corn or such to hold it while they peck on it to open or break it up into bite sized pieces? Blue jays and crow (I think) will do this with pecans and I have been watching various woodpeckers stealing the corn out of my feeders nd taking them to a split or fork and placing it and pecking it apart,
Oftentimes, birds will put seeds into cracks and crevices to stash for later use. While sitting in my chair just inside the overhead door of my garage watching birds at the feeders, a Red-breasted Nuthatch on 2 different days flew into the garage. It flew past at arms length away and stashed a sunflower seed in the tire tread of my zero turn mower and another time put a seed under the edge of a piece of lumber on the floor. Better entertainment is hard to come by.
Did you know old timers used to save the penis bone off of male raccoons to make into toothpicks? Apparently the crook allowed them to access those hard to reach spots between their back teeth. They were supposed to be a high class item and apparently brought good luck. Owners carried them around in fancy little cases. If the TV show is correct, moonshiners also used them to direct the flow of liquor out of the condensation spout to the catch jar below.
Did you know you can still buy them on Amazon? ::) ::)
Yet another reason not to drink moonshine. :-\
I am surprised the coon toothpicks did not generate more interest. I guess it was already common knowledge and everybody already had one. Well, at least everybody who wanted one. :D With Christmas just around the corner, I was just posting the fact they are available on Amazon in case you were looking for just the right stocking stuffer for that special someone. ;) :D ;D
Did you know that both Kudzu and Honeysuckle vine are both native plants from Asia/Japan? Kudzu dies at the first frost. Well the leaves die. The vine is alive and sprouts leaves in the spring. Honeysuckle is evergreen and is pretty cold tolerant. Both are excellent wildlife foods and high in protein but kudzu is by far the bigger problem due to its rapid grow. Whole southern cities have been covered with kudzu - that may be a mild exaggeration but not by far. I have certainly seen old homesites and even old rail car siding full of boxcars covered by it.
Did you know nuthatches often land on trees and walk upside down down the tree? I see them often around my deer feeders and it is fun to watch their antics.
For those of you who are not bowhunters, did you know that most bow hunters use some sort of mechanical release for improved consistency and accuracy when shooting their bow?
The most simple release are simple leather finger tip gloves and tabs. The gloves fit over the tips of the 3 middle fingers and when pulling the string the hunter either places all three fingers on the string under the arrow and pulls the string or he may put the index finger above the arrow and the other 2 below to draw. The leather tab has a button on the back side that fits between the fingers and across the tip of the three middle fingers. The hunter catches the string on the tab against his fingers, draws and releases. Mine still had the hair on the side against the string for a smoother surface. Both the tab and finger tip gloves save wear and tear on the shooter's fingers and help prevent blisters. Some people use a short piece of rope to pull the string and release one end of the rope. I never tried this so can't say much about it
Most modern hunters use a trigger activated release. They have a smooth polished pin that locks onto the string when pushed on to it, it clicks locked and is slid below the nock or on to a small loop added behind the nock on the string. One type looks like a round metal bar with the clip on the end and a trigger like a gun. It straps to the shooter's wrist and he pulls back and when ready to shoot pulls the trigger with his index finger like with a gun and the pin unlocks and releases the string. Another type (the one I happen to use) is curved to fit in the closed palm of my shooting hand and has a button that sticks out which releases the pin when pushed down with the shooter's thumb.
Okay more archery tips for the non-bowhunter. Did you know the bow string is a series of smaller cords rather than a single cord? The typical sight is a peep and post/pin arrangement where the bowstring is unraveled and a small plastic oval with grooves on the outside for the string and a round hole in the middle is inserted into the cords of the bowstring. The pin or pins (most sights have several pins that can be set for multiple yardages) are attached to the bow handle and most project out horizontally. Screwing them in or out shifts the strike of the arrow left or right. Adjusting them up or down adjusts the elevation of the arrow strike. The peep is adjusted up or down till it is comfortable for your shooting eye. The peep sight is lined up with the fine tip of the pin like sighting in a peep and post sight on a rifle. The tips of the pins are often different colors or painted with a fluorescent paint for better visibility and to define different yardage settings. The peep sight has a small projection and another attached to the bow or cable with a piece of 1/8" rubber tubing attached so when you pull the bowstring back the opening in the peep sight automatically lines up with the pin so you can align the two on your target. (Otherwise the opening in the sight might be 90 degrees out for the shooter's eye and he could not see through it
One neat sight used a vertical pin on a pendulum and you sighted it in for a preset yardage on level ground then when you climbed up in a tree stand the sight adjusted for different yardage based on the angle at which you were shooting.
Peep sights come with different size openings. I'd suggest the smaller the opening the more precise your shooting should be - i.e. you should be shooting smaller groups. On the flip side the larger peep lets you shoot in lower light. I had to let a herd of deer 15 yards away go one time because it was at the end of legal shooting time and I could not see them in my sight. I discovered and switched to the larger peep sight and can now see them much better for a longer time.
Some bow sights use a reticle arrangement like the scope on a rife. The sight is attached to the bow handle and the vertical line on the reticle sets windage left and right a series of horizontal reticle lines are used for various ranges. I assume but cannot confirm, this is used with a peep sight for proper alignment. If any readers use such a sight on your bow, please chime in and confirm or correct this observation.
Sticking with the archery theme till somebody comes up with something better: Did you know most modern hunting bows have a quiver that mounts to the handle of bow? This is especially true of compound bows where a little plastic mount about 3-4 inches long, about half an inch thick and an inch or so wide is screwed into mounting holes on the bow handle. The mount has 2 holes and the quiver is made of plastic and typically holds from 4-7 arrows. It has 2 bosses that stick out and are rotated into or out to remove, from the matching holes on the mount. The quiver usually has a pouch like affair on one end where the arrow points are placed in a slot or hole and sometimes they have rubber or foam to keep them tight and not let them rattle. Usually about 9-12 inches away the quiver has a horizontal bar with a row or two of holes the diameter of the arrow. The point of the arrow is slid into the pouch and the side is snapped into the tight fitting hole on the bar for a snug and secure fit.
Many hunters remove the quiver when they are sitting in their stand but leave it on their bow when traveling or stalking game. Sometimes if the hunter misses his shot the animal will not even know there was a shot or will go a short distance and return and the hunter can quietly remove another arrow and get a second shot. I have killed suicidal deer in this fashion.
If you plan to hunt with your quiver and arrows on your bow you should practice shooting with it in place as it will affect your shooting. The same is true with the clothes your wear or if you wear a hat. Wear them in practice if you will have them on while hunting and get used to them. Also if you will be shooting while sitting down, practice that.
I am going to attempt to accompany a friend of mine on an archery hunt later in the week. He got a doe this morning so we are down to one buck and as many hogs as we can get between now and Sunday. The way this management area works, the hunter can bring one guest but they must arrive and leave together and share the opportunities (one buck with at least 10" of antler and one doe). The weatherman is predicting some sporty weather for us later in the week. It will be Thursday or later before I'll be able to go due to work obligations.
I love to archery hunt but have not gone in years. I made a mount on my climber to mount my quiver and another to hold my bow. I am able to be much more still without holding the bow constantly and without the quiver attached, many more shots are possible. The bow I'm shooting is probably 25 years old as are my arrows and broadheads. My son in law's newer Hoyt is so much shorter and still shoots fast with a lot less draw weight. He practice shoots out to 90-100 yards. I like to hunt tight areas and generally won't shoot over 30 yards.
Many years ago, the old Browning compound bow I used was turned up to over 90 pounds of draw weight just to have a reasonably flat shooting arrow. These days I'd struggle to draw and hold that old pile of plunder.
Howard, do you have any tales of shooting fish with a bow? We never did it in any serious fashion, but we used to zip tie a Zebco to our stabilizer, push the cast button and have some heavyish monofilament tied to a fiberglass fish arrow. Generally, we went after tilapia. There are laws against hunting manatees or sea turtles now, even while using primative weapons :).
I have never tried bow fishing. I know people here who do. Around here it is carp shooting and they shoot lots of 20+ lb fish. State law prevents returning them to the water once shot with an arrow. Where I grew up it would more likely be gar fishing on the surface in the sloughs and oxbow lakes especially where they run into the rivers.
I have watched TV shows where the folks in Louisiana and Mississippi and such wingshooting at those Asian carp that like to go airborne. Seems like I was watching one guy trying to shoot one and another jumped out and smacked him in the back of the head. (Maybe that is what MM does when he and his posse are not harassing poor innocent elk out west. :D)
As a wayward youth I was tempted to try to shoot mullet in the Escambia river as they would come upstream and would sometimes make 3 jumps out of the water (always facing upstream?) and some of us figured by the 3rd jump we'd know where he was going to surface and had a better than fair shot at them with dove loads. I don't remember any of us ever trying it.
I have heard of folks shooting bullfrogs with a bow and I have shot them in daytime with a .22 with some success. I don't see why it would not work. I'd think softshell turtles could be killed with a bowfishing rig.
My grandfather used to shoot bass in the Suwannee River and clear sinkholes in Fla. He said he spotted a baby gator swimming circles in a sinkhole of the Steinhatchee River one time and decided that was too tempting meal to get away with it so he got out his .38 Long Colt revolver and kept a bead on the baby gator and when the water erupted in a splash, he shot and killed an 8 lb bass. (Such tactics now would land you in the crossbar hotel and a hefty fine.) I never asked but I assume the baby gator did not fare well in the event.
I watch some of the survival shows and always wondered why the contestants did not make a bow and bow fish for piranhas and such as they are plentiful, close range and a very primitive bow would work. My guide and crew got out with a primitive bamboo spear and machetes and killed a good mess of fish one night in Ecuador in a small river/backwater along the Peruvian border in December 2008. I am confident they could have killed even more with a bow and arrow outfit.
BTW - good luck on your deer and pig hunts with your bow.
(More archery stuff) Did you know that most hunting arrows are made of aluminum or carbon fiber? Some purists may still use wood and I think you may find a few fiberglass arrows for bow fishing still around. The aluminum and carbon are much more consistent in size, weight and strength. Arrows are matched to the draw weight of the bow based on the stiffness/flex of the arrow. The stronger the draw weight, the stiffer the arrow IIRC. Carbon arrows are lighter and faster but can put more strain on the bow due to their faster release being more like dry-firing your bow. One advantage, and the main reason I use carbon, is they stay straight. They do not bend - they either remain intact or they break while aluminum can bend and affect your accuracy.
The length of the arrow is matched to your draw length. A taller person with longer arms is more likely going to have a longer draw and would use a longer arrow.
Arrows are hollow and a threaded insert is generally hot glued into the tip and the arrowhead screws into this insert. Arrows can be tuned by heating the glue and rotating the insert with an arrowhead in it so the blades are aligned with the fletching. Not all hunters know or will do this and the fletching generally stabilizes the flight to compensate.
Unless they hit a large bone or such many arrows pass completely through the kill zone of a deer. You will see hunting shows where the hunter shoots a deer and goes over and finds his bloody arrow which has passed through the deer. The color of the blood or smell from a gut shot deer can tell the hunter more precisely where he hit the deer. Often the deer does not even seem to realize he has been shot. They will sometimes run a few feet and turn and look back with a "What was that look" on their face. In some cases I have had them stand there and get wobbly in the knees and fall over dead or lay down and lick the wound a few times then die from internal bleeding. In bowhunting the animal dies from blood loss rather than shock like from a heavy bullet.
I don't know if an arrow typically passes through a larger animal like a bear, moose, elk or caribou. I'd sure like to be able to shoot at bigger animals like that simply because they are a so much bigger target and should be easier to hit. :D
yes but then you just make them mad! :o :o :o
Another good reason I hunt from an elevated position! :D
OK, I know bears can climb but by the time he finds me he will probably be too weak to do so.
My buddy, Jimmy, who I'm still planning to hunt with later in the week if the storm does not mess us up too bad came down this afternoon for me to sharpen a few of his knives. Yesterday morning he stuck a doe. Today, he told me he hunted until around noon and saw a spotted fawn, five otters swimming in a creek/ditch and a gator swimming from one flooded head to another along with a small group of Osceola turkeys while sitting in his tree stand. Swamp hunting in Florida when it is close to 90° is a different experience than the hunting I've done in Georgia, Alabama or western Kentucky. You have to be prepared to get wet, deal with copious amounts of skeeters and yellow flies and you may see anything. Heck, I had my tree stand in a palm tree on public land several years ago and saw 20 or more hogs in two groups, three does, a bunch of turkeys and a bobcat in one day. Another time, I bow hunted early in the season until 9a.m. and later in the day counted over 170 mosquito bites on my left hand (I was holding my bow ungloved).
This is on a management area that he had to be drawn to hunt, Richloam, Baird Unit. He was one of three hunters to show up today. Evidently, according to the biologist he was talking to at the check station, bunny huggers put in for these hunts to lock up as many permits and prevent hunting. The place is overrun with hogs, and they should open it up to hunting with dogs, trapping and a hog only gun season. I have a couple of old broadheads and beater arrows that are intended for pork.
Yeah that is real different than up here. We are having unusually warm weather with temps up near 70 as our highs. I saw a bachelor group of 5 turkeys a couple days ago. All had 8-9 inch beards. Lots of squirrels and chipmunks. Too many doves stealing my corn from my feeders.
I missed a real nice 6-8 point about 3:30 pm today. My windage was perfect but my elevation sucked and I slid an arrow about 4" under his chest. It was a very steep downhill shot and I aimed real low - too low as it turns out. I guess he was 25-30 yards away. I shot an azimuth from my shooting house on my compass and will go look for the arrow in a day or two but I don't have high hopes to find it. This deer was not one of the suicidal ones I mentioned earlier who came back for a second shot. When I shot he suddenly remembered a dinner date he had with a lady friend in the next county and has not shown any indication of breaking it.
EDIT: I just took Sampson out to go Potty and had 2 white flags waving at me from the behind my well house - 35 yards away. I probably should be hunting closer to home.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 08, 2022, 07:53:51 AM
(More archery stuff) Did you know that most hunting arrows are made of aluminum or carbon fiber? Some purists may still use wood and I think you may find a few fiberglass arrows for bow fishing still around. The aluminum and carbon are much more consistent in size, weight and strength. Arrows are matched to the draw weight of the bow based on the stiffness/flex of the arrow. The stronger the draw weight, the stiffer the arrow IIRC. Carbon arrows are lighter and faster but can put more strain on the bow due to their faster release being more like dry-firing your bow. One advantage, and the main reason I use carbon, is they stay straight. They do not bend - they either remain intact or they break while aluminum can bend and affect your accuracy.
The length of the arrow is matched to your draw length. A taller person with longer arms is more likely going to have a longer draw and would use a longer arrow.
Arrows are hollow and a threaded insert is generally hot glued into the tip and the arrowhead screws into this insert. Arrows can be tuned by heating the glue and rotating the insert with an arrowhead in it so the blades are aligned with the fletching. Not all hunters know or will do this and the fletching generally stabilizes the flight to compensate.
Unless they hit a large bone or such many arrows pass completely through the kill zone of a deer. You will see hunting shows where the hunter shoots a deer and goes over and finds his bloody arrow which has passed through the deer. The color of the blood or smell from a gut shot deer can tell the hunter more precisely where he hit the deer. Often the deer does not even seem to realize he has been shot. They will sometimes run a few feet and turn and look back with a "What was that look" on their face. In some cases I have had them stand there and get wobbly in the knees and fall over dead or lay down and lick the wound a few times then die from internal bleeding. In bowhunting the animal dies from blood loss rather than shock like from a heavy bullet.
I don't know if an arrow typically passes through a larger animal like a bear, moose, elk or caribou. I'd sure like to be able to shoot at bigger animals like that simply because they are a so much bigger target and should be easier to hit. :D
Carbon/ Aluminum arrows are the best out there. Downside is they are expensive. ACC and FMJ are tops.
https://eastonarchery.com/2014/08/the-difference-in-aluminum-and-carbon-hunting-arrows/ (https://eastonarchery.com/2014/08/the-difference-in-aluminum-and-carbon-hunting-arrows/)
Easton FMJ will be a little over 200 bucks for bare shafts a dozen.
The 4MM FMJ offers the most penetration and is precision-made in USA for the most accurate hunting arrow on the market. The 4MM Full Metal Jacket has been updated with a new spine configuration, an all-new 8-32 point outsert system, and a redesigned graphics. The standard 8-32 thread point outsert optimizes front-of-center for easier broadhead tuning and more durability. FMJ starts with an advanced carbon core foundation for lightweight strength. A full metal jacket adds kinetic energy, enhances accuracy, and pulls easier from targets. The combination provides the deepest penetration and more pass-through impacts for quicker kills and heavier blood trails.
Boy is the rut in full swing here in WV! I think I much have seen a dozen deer on our place today including either 2 very nice bucks or the same one twice this afternoon as well as a couple of smaller bucks and a bunch of does. All are still safe in the woods although one heard a strange whistling sound pass a couple of inches over his back. ::) One of the little bucks was hassling like a dog he was so worn out from running his scrapes. I went with my son late morning to put a ramp on a new shooting house and while he went back for more wood a 6 pt crossed 75 yards away checking his scrapes then an 8 point chased a big doe 40 yards from us followed by another big doe then a few minutes later a smaller 4-6 point came by on the same path. My sone killed a big doe a couple days ago with his Silverado to the tune of $3500 for repairs to broken plastic and bent bumper. He said he has dodged several more including several nice bucks.
Back to the archery - Did you know most modern arrowheads are called broadheads which imply they are flat 2 sided points but most are actually 3 bladed? Some purists may still use the old stereotypical looking, flat, sharp on 2 sides points but these have a tendency to want to fly off center and may less accurate. Most hunting tips have 3 blades at 120 degree angles and are basically thin razor blades inserted and locked into the tip. Different states have different rules but for example WV requires at least 2 sharp edges at least 3/4" wide. Most tips cut a much wider path than that and some cut several inches. Some actually fold down and are held in place with a little rubber band or such which releases when it hits a solid object. One advantage to this type is the point shoots like practice points.+
The tips/arrowheads are threaded and screw into the insert in the tip of the arrow. Caution: Use a proper arrowhead wrench to tighten the points to avoid a nasty cut from the razor tipped points. I have 2 types of such wrenches - one is a flat piece of plastic with a straight opening for the old style 2 blade broadheads and another with slots at 120 degree for the 3 blade points. I have another wrench which is a tube with a whole bunch of slots that will fit any arrow type.
They make a special fishing arrow with a fold down barb that passes through the fish and holds it on the the arrow. There are special hunting points for small game designed to kill with shock rather than cutting through them. Target points are rounded on pointed, some are flat, and you can buy them in different weights to match the weight of your hunting tips.
I use 125 grain hunting points. Some people use 100 grain.
I'm looking forward to seeing some pictures when you get that big buck! 🍀
WB,
So am I. I wish someone would tell him. I only saw one deer this morning at it was 6:21 am. It walked 15 yards from and past my elevated shooting house. We both checked our watches and agreed it was 8 minutes before legal shooting light and let it go. I could not tell if it was a large doe or a young buck. I would have shot either. I could not see any obvious antlers. It never came back when there was enough light to see/shoot.
Did you know the "grain" is a unit of measurement for weight? You see bullets and arrow points listed in grains. For example my go-to hunting bullet for my 30-06 is a 150 grain soft point. My hunting arrow use a 125 grain broadhead so my arrow points are actually lighter than the bullets on my rifle.
A grain was supposed to be the weight of a single grain of seed. I read somewhere it was a grain of dry wheat from the middle of the ear. Officially now it is 1/7000 of a pound avoirdupois or .065 grams.
Also Happy Birthday USMC. Many happy returns. Semper Fi.
A bit of topic, but not too long ago I think the topic was around flying squirrels. I have been fortunate enough to have seen them a couple times.
Well today I got to see one up close in my home office. I had a rain day today, so I was working at home. Around 9 this morning I went to get a cup of coffee and there was a flying squirrel staring at me from the top of the open door. It startled me for a second, then I realized I had to catch it and get it out of my house. Tried a cardboard box, then a fishing net, then put some small live traps with dog food and water. Had a few sporadic sightings with unsuccessful catch attempts throughout the day. Finally about an hour ago one of my dogs finally flushed it out and up some door trim where I caught it with a net and safely released outside.
I know, pics or it didn't happen. My wife tried but it was too quick on the release. I don't think this is squirrels in the attic, as I've never heard anything before and I've lived in places with that problem. I think this is just a random that snuck in while a door was open or one of my dogs caught it and brought it in. But I think that is unlikely. I have checked my house for openings and I haven't found anything. I know they can fit through some incredibly small spaces.
This is not in the country, but small town. I'm fortunate to have a small woodlot (~3/4 acre) owned by a church as my backyard neighbor.
I love flying squirrels. As a kid I caught and kept them for pets and caught a few for my kids. I used to catch them and tie them up in my sock if I cam on them unexpectedly. A long sleeve shirt sleeve works good for a field expedient catch bag if necessary. Since they are nocturnal they are not the best choice. The last one I caught was trapped in my deer feeder barrel. I caught and released him in the same area so he could find his stored food and home. My wife got a nice picture of him.
I bet there are more in suburbs than people realize. Most people never see one anyway. I could see them living in attics and outbuildings and raising bird feeders at night. A friend in Albany Ga kept finding stored pecans in his attic and hearing them at night and it took a while to figure what it was. As you mention they can get in a very small opening.
Thanks for sharing. I hope they do not become a problem and you can watch them outside with no damage to your home.
BYW - there are designs on line for FS houses. The ones I saw were about 3' long with 3 chambers, lower and upper entrance/exit holes and access between chambers. The babies raise in the bottom chamber and the juveniles and adults stay in the upper ones.
I also love flying squirrels. This is probably about verbatim from last time this topic came up, but when I am marking trees I leave almost every tree that has wildlife cavities in it. Flying squirrels, cavity nesting birds, racoons, possums... they all need a home and there's usually no good wood in those trees anyway.
Thanks for the suggestion, I just looked up FS houses. I had already been thinking about bat boxes. I think my next project is to build one of each. The designs I saw said to place facing away from prevailing wind which is perfect in my case for viewing any activity. Apparently they will sometimes use wood duck boxes or boxes designed for other species.
What I found was neat on the FS boxes were the chambers and learning the nursery was the bottom chamber. I have found den trees with 10-15 FS in them so they will live with several generations in the same home if the situation permits. The design I saw had a 1.5" opening at the bottom and another at the top and you notched the floor/ceiling separation boards with 1.5" cutouts in one corner so they could move up and down. I think they were made from rough 3' long 1" boards and I think anything from 6" to 10" would work so they could be square or rectangle and work just fine. I guess if climbing snakes getting in would be an issue you could put some flashing around the tree so snakes could not climb it.
More boring bow hunting info - Do you know the difference between a recurve, longbow and a compound bow?
A longbow is the most simple design. It is basically a long stick bent in the middle with the string tied to the ends. It is a simple arc. The thicker and heavier the bow the harder it is to pull back and the further/harder it will shoot. This also means the further you pull back the harder it is to draw and hold.
A recurve bow has a small curve near each end like an old fashioned handlebar mustache. The recurve apparently adds more weight to the pull or draw weight. This also means the further you pull back the harder it is to draw and hold.
A compound bow has a pulley arrangement on each end with cables wrapped around them to hold the bow in a bent position. The big advantage of the compound bow is there is a maximum point in the draw that determines the distance the bow will shoot an arrow. As you pull back past this point the weight becomes less and easier to pull and hold. This is the holding weight or let-off weight and some bows have as much 90% let-off so if you were shooting a 60 lb hunting bow you would only be holding 6 lbs of holding weight. My bow has a 50% let off so while I am shooting 60 lbs of draw weight I am only holding 30 lbs while I am aiming and such.
Old fashioned wooden bow makers preferred Osage Orange (Hedge) and which in French was called Bois d'arc which translates to "Wood of the Bow". Hickory was another preferred wood for bow. Bow shafts were always split or riven rather than sawed to preserve the fibers and strength intact. Modern wooden bows are more likely made from laminated strips of wood for greater strength and durability.
Did you know that shot sizes for shotgun are described by numbers and the larger the number, the smaller the shot size? The only formula I found said to take the number of the shot size, subtract that from 17 then divide by 100 to determine the diameter of the shot in inches. So a number 8 shot should be: 17-8=9/100 = .09" (Sounds hokey and complicated to me).
The smallest commonly used hunting/skeet/trap shooting size is #8 shot. It is popular for quail and dove shooting. There was one old man in my community as a kid who was a semi-famous wild turkey hunter and he used #8 shot and said "You only have to hit it in the head with one pellet and there are a whole lot more pellets in an ounce of #8 shot than an ounce of #4 shot like most turkey hunters preferred." He was the only one I knew who used #8 for turkeys.
I used to see #9 shot and have heard of "dust" which was smaller than #12. I heard quail hunters used to fire a dust round into a rising covey of quail and knock them all down. Unfortunately they would then all get up and fly off. I assume they died somewhere else.
The smallest I have used is #12 shot called "Rat Shot" in .22 rifle long rifle. They are long brass shells crimped at the end. They work great for shooting rats in a barn at night and for shooting snakes at uncomfortably close range or shooting trash fish on catfish lines and such like large feisty gars or or carp, where legal. I once killed a woodcock on the wing at about 15 yards with one pellet to the head. That is well outside the normal effective range they are used. I used to keep a cheap short barreled .22 pistol in my tackle box loaded with rat shot for snakes and such.
I don't remember buying shot bigger than #2 shot and if you get bigger than 0 size the nomenclature changes to B or BB or buckshot. I've never seen B shot but BB used to be common and it was very popular in the Amazon used to deer, big birds, monkeys, caimans, etc. The most common shotgun I saw there was a single shot .16 gauge - usually badly rusted and with a cracked stock wrapped in electrical tape.
Buckshot is commonly used down south for deer hunting where shots are often close and brush is thick. It is numbered or with 0's such as 0,00, 000 referred to as single aught, double aught and triple aught. I think a 000 buckshot is about .33" diameter/caliber, 00 is about .30" diameter/caliber. #3 buckshot is popular with 20 gauge because it fits with 5 pellets in a row on a shell IIRC. #4 buckshot is for close in jumpshooting. (IMHO #4 buckshot is a great personal defense round for home use if the situation ever requires such. I think the military used 00 buckshot for security and defense purposes.)
I had a very depressing day bow hunting. We had a steady soaking rain yesterday and the woods are quiet and wet. I saw a nice unicorn buck about 1:15 pm. He had a nice 3-4 point on his left side and I did not see an antler on the right. He never got closer than about 50 yard in the brush. About 2:45 pm a nice young buck passed by then turned and came right to my feeder. I shot him at about 10 yards but hit about 3" behind his lungs. The arrow did not pass through and I watched him for about 400 yards. Because of the threat of more rain I packed up and walked over and jumped him or anther deer near where I had seen him. I found blood near there and went home and came back with Sampson and tried to get him to take the track but he never did. Because of the wet leaves I could not find much blood and never found him. I checked the run off at the bottom of the ridge and my pasture fence line which are the normal places I would expect to find one piled up. I guess the coyotes and buzzards will feast well on him. They will nearly always run downhill in such situations.
That's to bad to hear. Sounds like you made a good effort at looking
A little bit of a fringe topic but did you know the Longhorn cattle, often called Texas longhorns, developed from a mixture of Iberian cattle brought over by the early Spanish conquistadores and other breeds of cattle early American settlers brought from Europe, including the English longhorn? Reading their history is interesting. The Spanish cattle were basically the same ones used for their fighting bulls. The feral cattle thrived in conditions modern cattle could not tolerate. They had few predators and the Indians preferred buffalo (Bison) which apparently were easier to hunt and generally considered better eating plus the by-products of the buffalo were maximized. The feral longhorns bred with other cattle that were released or escaped. The Longhorn was very shy and had a very bad temper so they were hard to catch, hunt and wolves and bears generally steered clear of them.
After the Civil war Confederate veterans often gathered herds and drove them to the northern markets. A lead steer would generally sort of take charge and a good lead steer was seldom sold but would be returned to make more trips. The longhorns on such drives were very temperamental and it took little to make them stampede and many cowboys and cattle died in such stampedes.
The Longhorn was nearly bred out of existence with more modern farming and ranching techniques but a few purists rescued the breed more for nostalgic purposes than for any economic reasons.
About buckshot, did you know that #4 buckshot is very good for coyotes called in. Sometimes the pellets will stop just short of exiting so there are fewer exit holes in the pelt. And I concur that it could be a good self-defence round.
KEC,
I would think BB shot would also be a very good coyote load from your description.
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Did you know you can cut a hickory down and have a quality working bow in a few hours with a hatchet a draw knife spoke shave? Believe I'll string it up and try not to pith off a bear.
I like the looks of where that is headed. How long and under what conditions do you need to let it dry before you figure you can use it? I'd think because of the size it should dry pretty quick.
I've watched Tom Oar on Mountain Men make a couple and have always enjoyed the skill and craftsmanship involved. I have seen a few handmade bows and they did not always have the picture perfect shape like a factory built ones but were beautiful tools/piece of art.
My shoulders are getting too banged up to ever shoot one and I am seriously considering buying a crossbow. Keep us posted on how it turns out and you can note in your will it goes to WV Sawmiller in the event of a mismatch with a pithed off Tennessee Bear. :D
That is beautiful.
I recently paid for 3 days for firing the 12 ga at a coon, old dudes can't win :D.
A friend mentioned this morning, we've had a hard frost, the birds are hitting the now sweet dogwood berries.
Did you know dogwood is considered one of the best foods for wildlife in the southern USA? Deer browse the leaves and love the berries as do turkeys, squirrels, coons, and almost all the seed eating birds. It is a strong wood although it does not get real big so I used to climb them for deer hunting and killed a nice 8 point out of one on Ft. Benning. It was pretty forgiving and if you overloaded a limb it would start cracking and slowly break rather than just snapping and dropping you like most softwoods or some soft hardwoods would have done. It is the one of the first trees to flower and last to have fruit still on it after the leaves dropped. It makes a nice little shade tree and almost never gets big enough to cause damage falling on your house as a yard tree. It is strong and was a preferred wood for making gluts or wedges. Dad said they nearly wiped it out in Central Fla when he was a kid because it was the preferred wood for making spools for thread.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 14, 2022, 08:03:12 AM
I like the looks of where that is headed. How long and under what conditions do you need to let it dry before you figure you can use it? I'd think because of the size it should dry pretty quick.
I've watched Tom Oar on Mountain Men make a couple and have always enjoyed the skill and craftsmanship involved. I have seen a few handmade bows and they did not always have the picture perfect shape like a factory built ones but were beautiful tools/piece of art.
My shoulders are getting too banged up to ever shoot one and I am seriously considering buying a crossbow. Keep us posted on how it turns out and you can note in your will it goes to WV Sawmiller in the event of a mismatch with a pithed off Tennessee Bear. :D
Have made many Hickory bows over the years. Gifts for friends and family.
The interesting thing about Hickory self bows is you can use them immediately upon completion of tillering.
Believe Clay Hayes down in FL. has classes on self bow making. He also produces videos. Although he makes Hickory bows I think he primarily focuses on Osage bows, which requires proper drying prior to working.
Building the Hickory Self Bow - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60We2S2B1iY)
What is tillering?
Does the draw weight change as the bow dries? For some reason I'm wanting to think dry hickory would be harder to bend than green hickory.
There's now a disturbing image of Howard perched a good 6' up atop a poor quivering dogwood etched in my brain.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 14, 2022, 06:19:00 PM
What is tillering?
Does the draw weight change as the bow dries? For some reason I'm wanting to think dry hickory would be harder to bend than green hickory.
Draw weight can change a little. Some use steam to set the bow. Some use heat over a fire. Youtube has many videos on this. Posted one. Suggest you watch Clay make a Hickory bow.
Tillering a bow is the measured process of removing (Scraping, feathering) wood away from inside of the bow to accomplish a desired pull weight and equal movement of each side of the bow.
These are considered some of the best recurve and long bows built since 1957 in Nixa Missouri. They use all different woods to whatever taste you have.
http://www.blackwidowbows.com/ (http://www.blackwidowbows.com/)
Fire hardening white wood self bows:
Fire Hardened White Wood Self Bows - my BEST hickory SELF BOW yet! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxTXrEVXE1M)
Did you know that arrowheads historically were made of flint, obsidian, bone and I think I read of some made of hardened wood? They were secured to the arrow with sinew and glue made of animal products (I think hooves made good glue) and pitch from trees. As technology improved they were made of metal like bronze then steel. Modern hunting tips are made almost entirely of steel and are basically just razor blades. Most are replaceable and no longer sharpened like they would have been in the past. They are pretty much designed for a one time use and very few hunters expect to get multiple uses out of them. In fact, while sometimes recovered normally the entire arrow is destroyed when shooting into a large game animal. I did recover an arrow yesterday I had shot completely through a young buck but that is rare and unexpected.
The head cuts arteries and veins as it passes through or into the animal. My son described a video he saw where they tested the difference between sharp new arrowheads and dull used ones. The experiment was set up with rubber tubing filled with colored liquid was stretched closely over a frame and a hunting arrow was shot through it to simulate the arteries and veins in an animal. Everywhere the edge passed cut through the tubing and leaked. They did the same thing with a dull arrow and he said there was a huge and graphic difference in the effectiveness. The dull arrow passed through without cutting many of the tubes while the sharp one cut every one it contacted.
The desired target area on an animal is typically the lungs and heart area because the arteries and veins converge there and the likelihood of impacted a larger number of them exists. A poor hit into the butt or gut will likely kill the animal but it takes a lot longer for the animal to bleed to death and increase the risk of not finding it as it will travel further for expiring.
I know Mississippi used to and may still allow use of drug tipped arrows. The compound was injected into the animal when the arrow hit and it stopped the heart quickly when it reached the bloodstream. I don't know if others do or did allow use of such. It was not a poison and did not affect the use of the meat. Primitive hunters in Africa such as the Bushmen and in the Amazon (Various Indian tribes) used poisons from insect larvae (Bushmen) and frogs (Amazon Indians) which quickly paralyzed any prey it hit.
I finally got a chance to watch the bowmaking videos. Very interesting. He makes it look much easier than I am sure it actually is. I thought it was interesting the woods his buddies used including the sweetgum and they cut up one of my dogwoods so I see I just lost another potential tree to hunt from.
I did not hear them mention anything about persimmon so I wonder how it works. I am not sure it is listed as a white which is what they were talking about.
I really liked seeing his vise arrangement where he draws his bows and how he measures the backset and such.
I liked his demo with the broken bow and the worm hole. That made me wonder if you could epoxy fill such a hole and restore the strength.
I am sure I will never make one but I enjoyed watching a true craftsman explain and show the process.
Did you know that a mortally wounded big game animal will usually run downhill? There may be cases where there is other refuge closer that he will head to but I'd wager 80-90 percent of the time he will head downhill if there is much slope to the terrain. I assume it is just because it is faster and easier. I have heard friends say they will head to water but I think it is just because the closest water is likely downhill. If you lose the blood trail I'd suggest concentrating on the downhill from the last known location. Check obstacles like streams, pasture fences and gullies along the route as often they will get to one and not have the strength to jump it or climb out. Check thick brush and old brushpiles and such.
I guess for you flatland hunters you'll just have to flip a coin.
Did you know even a half inch of snow on the ground on the first day of rifle/buck season can make a huge difference in the number of deer killed in WV and similar states? I guess the colder weather is a factor in encouraging the deer to move around and it certainly makes tracking a wounded deer much easier and more certain of finding him but mostly it is because of the extra contrast and visibility it provides. A deer standing in the woods full of dead brown leaves is very difficult to see from even 50 yards away. That same deer standing with a white background can be almost immediately seen from 500 yards away. Also the white background greatly increases the ambient light on cloudy days and at the first and last legal shooting hours at daylight and dusk when the deer are more active.
Did you know, if I remember my history lessons correctly, the crossbow was probably the most powerful individual weapon in the inventory prior to the invention of the firearm? For some reason I am thinking maybe the French invented it and it was capable of casting a bolt (Crossbows use bolts not baby arrows) with enough force to penetrate the metal armor in use by medieval knights. The problem was it was very slow to reload. The English longbow was developed about the same time and was also capable of piercing steel armor and it was much faster to reload so it helped the English defeat the French in their battles at the time. The preferred wood for the English longbow IIRC was yew.
Did you ever listen closely to the sounds of the various animals in the wood especially during the Fall and early winter when there are lots of dry leaves on the ground? If you hear a scurrying/fast stop and go rustle of the leaves it is likely a squirrel or chipmunk of other small animal. A steady crunch, crunch of the leaves is often the sound of a larger more confident animal such as a deer although it could be a bear, another hunter, a turkey walking by something like or even a possum with insomnia or a coon. If you hear limbs and twigs breaking it is like another hunter as wildlife very seldom break twigs or limbs when walking. A stealthy crunch and stop may be very cautious deer or it could be a predator like a fox, coyote or bobcat stalking a small prey animal. A squirrel chattering loudly may be a warning to others a predator (mammal or raptor) is nearby or another hunter. A squirrel whine may be the same thing or just talking to another squirrel. A steady Munk, Munk, Munk from a chipmunk can mean the same thing. Turkeys feeding will be scratching and throwing leaves several feet but they will also usually be putting, yelping and purring to each other. Unless alarmed birds will be chirping and pecking at the bark on trees and such. When alarmed they have different calls. A hawk or eagle will give a screeching alarm call when threatened or angry and warning its mate or young. I heard a crow calling today and had to listen to him several times to distinguish whether it was a crow or an old doe that had busted someone or even a squawking blue heron.
Every area and every animal sounds different and many of the sounds overlap or are similar to others. I remember bow hunting in early October and behind me (always the case) I heard a steady crunch, crunch stop int he dry leaves followed by the distinct crunching of acorns and repeated several time. I just knew it was a big buck walking, stopping, eating, watching and repeating. When it finally walked into my line of sight it turned out to be a big fat old woodchuck.
Speaking of sounds, I'm wondering if it is a local dialect of the raven out here or if they all sound like this across the country. They make the usual Caw Caw call (like crows) but then they make a very different sound. They will do a call that is a cross between rain drops and a bamboo xylophone. Or maybe rain falling on a xylophone. :D A very quick succession of notes, 8-16?, too quick to count and kind of pleasant during the day. In the evening, rather spooky. :o More like bones rattling.
The crows I was hearing today commonly make these calls but they are far different than what I remember hearing from them as a kid. Also as a kid crows would normally be seen in groups of 4 with one on watch and the other 3 feeding. I don't see that any more either.
And I bever heard such a variety of calls from Hoot Owls (Barred owls) as what I hear up her in WV. Maybe in the swamps of Fla they were different?
John, our ravens would understand your ravens perfectly, I've used almost the same description before.
Crows still have one on watch here. A deer gut pile has a few crows feeding and at least one watching. See it every year.
Mentioning sounds in the woods, here is a short compilation of a couple trail cams, with the rutting grunting sounds of some bucks and some noisy turkey's. Also a coyote with a badly injured (broken) front leg.
Compilation of two cams (https://rumble.com/v1uju8q-compilation-of-two-cams.html)
Nice compilation, I'd like to try some trail cams.
Do you know how to read a topographical map? They are a great tool for anyone hunting or hiking in new country. Looking at one of the area where you hunt may identify overlooked areas you may want to consider for your hunting and travel. The ones I am most familiar with were the old 1:50,000 military maps. The scale of 1:50,000 means one inch on the map equals 50,000 inches on the ground so a 1:10,000 map is a much larger scale with more detail than a 1:50,000 map.
Elevation lines are shown following the contour of the ground. Smaller lines might mean 10' of elevation change with darker lines at 100' increments. Lines very close together means steep elevation changes while more distance between them means flatter land or more gentle slopes. A circle of elevation lines typically means you have reached a hill top or lake at the bottom of a hill/mountain. Sharp Vee shaped lines are typical of draws or ravines between two hills/mountains. Blue colors means water or streams but keep in mind the water flow may be seasonal so you may find a dry creek bed but the slope of the ground will be the same.
A dip in the middle of a ridge is called a saddle. A fairly level area on the side of a hill or mountain is called a bench. A ridgeline heading down a hill or mountain is called a finger.
Learning to read a topo map and recognizing the features game animals use to travel, where they like to bed or roost, natural feeding areas, etc can save you a lot of shoe leather.
You can also visit your local soil service office and buy arial photographs of any location in the USA which may provide even more detail.
I had this batch open on the puter. A few times I've used some 3d drawing programs to help clients visualize what the contour lines are telling them. This was an existing springhouse. The topo map is laying there flat. I've pulled up the contour lines the appropriate amount for each elevation change and then colored in between so they could see what the lines mean. The water starting its journey from this little spring ends up in New Orleans about 2500 vertical feet below this point.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/countours1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1668989308)
WV, about the Barred Owl calls, I was once in Northern New Brunswick and they sounded really different there. Interesting, eh? The ravens have quite a few calls. They didn't used to be around my home area, but have established themselves here in recent years. The literature used to tell how they occur in remote wilderness areas and nest on remote cliffs. Here, now, they are nesting on cell phone towers, bridges, farm silos (on the platform at the top of the ladder) and in the roof rafters inside highway department salt storage sheds/barns.
Did you know the swollen necks on whitetail bucks is generally attributed to the increase in testosterone associated with the breeding instinct this time of year? You should also consider he has been carrying around his heaviest set of antlers at the end of the year so the muscles in his neck would naturally be larger just like a weight lifter lifting weights.
It also helps when they are pushin' and shovin' eachother and rubbin' trees. Workout time!
By the end of the year you wouldn't recognize the same buck deer of the weight they lost from the first and second rut from chasing and hunting the does to do their job breeding
Did you know a 50 lb nylon feed sack with about 2 gallons of sawdust with the end tied tightly against the sawdust makes a very handy and effective rest for your rifle the next time you go to the range or need to sight it in before a big hunt. I know lots of people use sand but sawdust is readily available for many of us. I guess you could use an old pillowcase or maybe a plastic garbage bag if you don't have a feed sack.
Maybe I can get my wife to sew the end shut with the sawdust inside and make 3-4 out of each sack and market them at flea markets and gun shows.
The bag of sawdust has an attractive price, but I really like my lead sled rest. It really holds the gun steady, you burn up less ammo and it takes a lot of recoil off your shoulder
I know either will work but I actually find the sawdust is easier to form around my rifle make it lay dead stable.
This should be obvious to anyone who has ever sighted in a scope but did you know a scope has adjustments for up and down (Elevation) and left and right (Windage). To adjust from a known distance and a very steady rest, you shoot a target, normally 2-3 rounds, and find the center of the group then remove the cover to the adjustments and use a thin coin (like a dime or penny) a screwdriver or the rim of a bullet to turn the adjustment in the bezel. The rings are marked showing which direction moving them will move the bullet and will make click every time they are moved one notch. Most big game rifle scopes indicate they move the strike of the bullet 1/4" at 100 yards so if the center of your group is 2" left and 3" low at 100 yards you would start by moving the windage adjustment 8 clicks towards the arrow to the right and 12 clicks up. Fire another test group and verify the point of aim is now the point of impact. Adjust again if necessary. If sighting in at 200 yards use half the number of adjustments, at 50 yards, double them.
Be sure to verify the direction and intensity of the wind before making adjustments. At a shooting range there is normally a flag flying that indicates the wind direction and intensity. If no flag you can use the waving grass or leaves or smoke to estimate the wind direction and force. Head and tail winds pretty much have a negligible effect on the bullet in flight. Winds from 45 degrees have half the effect of direct crosswinds.
Remember when you have your rifle scope zeroed to hit correctly remember that zero is only for that style and weight of bullet from that manufacturer so using a heavier, lighter different bullet shape or even a different manufacturer will probably strike the target slightly to significantly different so be sure to sight in your rifle using the round you hunt with. If for some reason you will be using different bullet types zero for the most common round you will be using then test fire a few of the other rounds to know how/where they hit and make adjustments in your aiming point in the field if you have to use them.
Even temperature and humidity can affect the bullets path but unless you are a military sniper it is probably not going to make a difference to you.
Remember to only take shots at ranges and conditions you are comfortable and confident about.
Here is what I use to do.
I take one shot at bullseye then put rifle in a padded vise and re-aim at bullseye and carefully adjust scope cross hairs to bullet hole. Take a second shot to confirm results.
Now the scope is aimed were the bullet goes.
Yep, that is a quick and easy way to do it. Just be sure to use the same round you will be using for hunting.
A bore sighter is light device that you can use to initially get the scope sighted to hit a target then you can fine tune it using actual ammo and the descriptions/procedures previously identified. They can save you using a lot of expensive ammo at the start.
When handloading ammo you start with a known and fixed amount of gunpowder and add and reduce the amount of powder a few grains at a time checking the bullets performance. More or less powder will tighten or loosen the strike of the group.
The scope thing reminded me of the time I was at our backwoods camp with a couple of friends/co-owners.
One guy brought a .22 with a scope to do a bit of plinking with. So after a couple of meals it was time to do the dishes, some how we came up with the plan to target shoot one shot each and the winner did't have to do dishes. We nailed a cedar shingle on a tree and drew a bullseye on it then I got the first shot, as i picked up the rifle and put a shell in it I bumped the scope with my thumb and noticed that the scope would move a tiny bit to the right on the rear mount so not saying anything I bumped it back to the left and took my shot hitting the dot on the shingle then bumped the scope to the right and passed on, neither of the other guys could hit the shingle and were saying there must be something wrong so I said maybe you guys are just really bad so I put another shell in the .22 and bumped the scope back and shot again. They said see you missed too, I said I don't think so, lets go look. On closer inspection you could see were my two shots overlapped about ¼ of the bullet. No dishes for me that night but later in the evening the subject came up and I got to laughing and confessed what had happened.
Did you know a good scope pulls in a lot of light allowing you to see clearly in low light conditions and make ethical shots you otherwise could not? I used to hunt squirrels and rabbits with my little Ruger 10/22 rifle with a 2.5 power weaver scope on it during the day but would take it off to go hunt coons at night thinking I could not be able to see them in the scope in the dark. Dumb move! I finally took it one light with the scope still mounted and found it was much, much easier to spot the one orange eye of a wary coon up in the tree and if I could spot it I could hit it. A smart coon will hide one eye in many cases and one eye was often all you could see. I immediately found the low power scope made finding that eye so much easier. After that first trip I I never took my scope off again.
Did you know that different species of rattlesnakes in America are credited with having distinctly different personalities? A pygmy rattlesnake is supposed to be among the most ill-tempered with a western diamond or sidewinder the next most ornery. A canebrake/timber rattler and eastern diamondback, while much larger and scary critters to encounter unexpectedly, are much more likely to lay quietly when you step beside them if they do not feel threatened or to just issue a severe warning even though they are well within striking distance.
I have killed several canebrake/timber rattler and eastern diamondback with a cruise stick on the job. Normally I would not, but when they are really close or moving towards me I feel the need to terminate. They are more docile, but, big ones can kill. Had a doc friend that would take any recent kill for dinner. I suspected that guy.
When I was in my teens, we went canoeing/fishing on a remote reservoir. There was a low rock dam and a stone overflow/outlet works about 30' from the dam in the water. The outlet was a cube with the top about 20" above the water. There were 3 or 4 copper heads sunning themselves on top of the outlet and many more on the dam. Kind of wondered how they got up there. As we approached to get a better look, the ones on the outlet jumped off into the water and started swimming towards us. :o We paddled away pretty quickly! Our canoe sat lower than the outlet!
Over Spring break 1989 (March or April I guess) my then 11 y/o son and I met my dad at Old Town Fla for a week of fishing on the Suwannee River. It was very memorable as my son and dad had never spent that much time together before and became very close for the rest of Dad's life. Dad taught him the art of the Big Windy and telling tall tails. Mostly they just ganged up on me. It was Dad's last fishing trip as later that year they found he had throat cancer and removed his larynx and he was scared to get out on the water with that open stoma in his throat.
Anyway, one day after running our catfish lines we were fishing for bream and such with cane poles and rod and reel. The fish were not biting and it was a warm sunny day so we decided to go up to where the railroad crossed the river and see about shooting snakes that liked to hang out in the rocks there. The water was deep and swift there and made a fast eddy. We rode under the trestle looking in the rocks for snakes but did not see any. There were high limestone banks and one point stuck out with a chunk of limestone about 3' in diameter and 4-5 feet out in the river. As we passed it I stood up and looked on the rock and I saw a couple feet of a cottonmouth but did not see the head. The eddy pushed me past before I could get a shot with my .22 Saturday night special filled with rat shot. I made another circle and spotted the snake but while following the body looking for the head it crossed over a 2nd snake which followed over a 3rd and 4th snake. I made another circle standing on the bench seat and just fired as quickly as I could with the double action pistol into the bodies of the snakes and 7-8 30" cottonmouths just erupted off that rock into the water below right beside the boat. One came up swimming 4-5 feet away so I pointed the pistol at him not knowing if I even had a round left in the chamber. I shot and it made a wedge shape that started about a foot wide and opened up to about 3' with the snake's head in the middle. I don't know how many of the #12 shot hit him but he rolled up and slowly sunk to the bottom. I did not see any of the others and don't know if the shot in the bodies of the other snakes killed any or if they just irritated them and the next fisherman coming by had to deal with them.
I had heard of wads of snakes in a big ball but this is the closest I have ever actually seen to such and they were all young snakes about 30" long.
I used to think about the wads of moccasins when we used to wade fish some of the lakes here, especially when we were in the cattails. Sometimes we would wade through the deep cattails flipping a Texas rigged worm for bass. Thankfully, I never bumped into a mass of them while wading.
Did you know a field expedient walking staff makes walking up and down steep, slippery hills much easier and safer when hunting or hiking? A 5' stick works fine. If you don't see one handy at the start of your journey just pull out your Leatherman or Gerber handy tool, select the saw blade and make one by cutting a handy small tree. If you are selecting dead stick test it to make sure it is plenty stout.
When walking uphill you can use it as an anchor to help pull yourself up or brace yourself if you start to slide. On the downhill portions, which are typically where you are more likely to loose your balance and fall, you can brace yourself before stepping down and getting overbalanced.
If you are stalk hunting with a pair/set of shooting sticks they may double as a walking staff.
When you get older or are injured with a sore hoof or broken ribs ::) a walking staff can be a life-saver to help keep from from sliding off a slick, narrow deer trail on the way to your shooting blind.
There are some hornbeam growing out back, AKA blue beech or musclewood. I've thought about how a small one would make a neat looking cane/walking stick.
Yeah, I can see where an ironwood would make a neat walking staff. A real popular staff is made from a small tree that had a grape vine growing tightly around it leaving the circular indentions. The guy who does my Lictenberg engraving for me sells a lot of cut off bamboo at his flea market booth. From the number I see walking around the market with them it must be a very good seller.
I have not hunted without a walking/shooting staff for many years. My favorite is a no longer available Stoney Point Pole Cat monopod which has a "Y" at the top and quick adjustable length.
It is a tradition in out troop for the dad to make a walking stick to be given to the young man at his eagle ceremony. In keeping with the times, I have helped a few dads, and made some for boys with dads not involved with scouts (single Mom). the symbol is a staff to guide the way. like the "spare the rod, spoil the child". the rod can be a punishment (whip) or a guide (shepherd guiding flocks).
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/20438672-20D6-410C-BF60-84AECC6EC486.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616821189)
Quote from: Magicman on November 27, 2022, 09:39:43 PM
I have not hunted without a walking/shooting staff for many years. My favorite is a no longer available Stoney Point Pole Cat monopod which has a "Y" at the top and quick adjustable length.
Here you go. This company is popular.
https://www.boghunt.com/pods/monopods/adrenaline-monopod/1100480.html#gclid=Cj0KCQiA1ZGcBhCoARIsAGQ0kkpP9LBexM47SHJRx7e3XEQSplZOCEVzT8RNGs7t15nq7hsfMjJyz6caAh8TEALw_wcB&start=1 (https://www.boghunt.com/pods/monopods/adrenaline-monopod/1100480.html#gclid=Cj0KCQiA1ZGcBhCoARIsAGQ0kkpP9LBexM47SHJRx7e3XEQSplZOCEVzT8RNGs7t15nq7hsfMjJyz6caAh8TEALw_wcB&start=1)
Amazing Skybridge Michigan
https://www.boynemountain.com/skybridge-michigan (https://www.boynemountain.com/skybridge-michigan)
Quote from: Walnut Beast on November 28, 2022, 03:03:50 AMHere you go.
Nope, I looked at that and it's not the same as my Stoney Point. Mine is twist lock.
(Your long link is blowing the page.)
I have walking sticks made from the internal rods of a Saguaro Cactus after they die and open up. Strong and light. I was going to cut a section, post a picture, and see if anyone could guess what kind of "wood" it was.
Did you know that if you own or have permanent access to a piece of hunting property one of the best investments you may make is to build a permanent deer blind/shooting house if possible. The most important consideration about a shooting house is the proper location and safety. You need to place it such that you can see and shoot safely in the areas you know or reasonably can expect the game to travel. Keep in mind whether you will be shooting a high powered rifle, a shotgun with slugs or shot, a bow or crossbow.
The design, locations, sizes and style of shooting windows will be affected - shooting with a rifle may allow you to build and use a very small window placed at chest level when seated or standing while a bow or crossbow typically requires a bigger and often lower window.
Will you want to keep the window closed to retain heat in very cold conditions? If not a simple opening may be adequate while if you want to hunt with closed windows you need to be able to open them discretely and quietly. When using a rifle to shoot game 75-100 yards away this may not be a problem but shooting a bow at a deer 10 yards away makes this more challenging. If you plan to use a propane heater keep proper ventilation and fire safety in mind.
Elevation is your friend both to allow you to see game further and prevent them from seeing or hearing you as easily. I have one shooting house built on the side of a steep slope and another up on poles such that the bottom is about 8' above the ground. Be sure the ladder, steps or ramp is carefully designed and built with safety in mind. Swinging the doors inward may help keep you from scaring away a big buck you had not seen before an still give you a shot at him.
How many people will be hunting in it at one time? If just one person you may be happy with a 5' square building. I have a 6X6 blind that is okay for 2 people. I have a 6X8 that I feel is too big. I like to be able to sit in the corners where I cannot be seen and drop down and stand at the back as needed to shoot.
Building and using a shooting house with your kids and grandkids can provide great memories. A well built shooting house should easily last 20+ years with decent maintenance. It is sort of like building a play house or fort for adults. You can use scrap lumber that you can't sell but is fit for this purpose. I use treated lumber/bracing for the floor and accept I can replace the siding as needed. You need good roofing whether metal or shingles so you don't have to re-do them very often, if ever. Sound proof the the floor as much a possible using carpeting or rubber mats but keep it simple to maintain. In some circles hunters will argue over who has the ugliest shooting house (think of Steve Martin in "The Jerk").
Add a couple of rough shelves, nail a short 2X4 between the studs to place your coffee cup, calls, rattling antlers, spare ammo, etc. Hammer or screw in a bunch of long nails or screws to hang coats, slingshots bows, gun racks, etc on. Drill a hole and run a hose with a homemade funnel down into a gravel filled pit for a urinal if you are so inclined. Keep some heavy plastic or metal cans or old military ammo boxes to store TP, hunting regs, snacks, and any gear you may want to leave overnight or long term so the mice, chipmunks and such can't get into it. Keep a cheap dollar store broom and dustpan in a corner or across a couple of pegs to sweep out any blown in leaves and such. Keep a sharpie in your box and write on the walls the date and kill info on every trophy taken including the name or initials of the hunter. Hang up the spent round your grandson killed his first or biggest deer with. It is a great trip down memory lane when the kids are sitting in the blind they helped Grandpa build and hunt out of.
I am surprised this topic did not generate more comments and suggestions. I was hoping for a few pictures of people's prize shooting houses. I remember on Duck Dynasty where they took an old camper or such and put it up on metal posts for their high class duck blind. I have even heard of flatland touristers who lack proper elevation I guess who have made them on trailers so they could tow/haul them around to different spots. ;) My son and his best friend just finished a Cadillac model that is about 8' square, rubber flooring, a couple old wheel chair to sit and roll around from window to window and they have already killed several bucks out of it last week. He had me saw the siding 1/2" thick, one live edge and we used a lap siding design and took some short left over pieces and used as shakes to close the gaps between the roof and the last board on the walls. (He used some to patch big knotholes as it was not high quality RO/WO he had for logs). They used an old metal shop door and I ripped a 16' long 2X12 into 2X6 plywood joists or such I'd salvaged from a drift pile on the lake to make a ramp instead of steps and the owner does not have great balance so my son joked with him that it was "Handicap accessible". The used cheap roll roofing and I predict they will have to replace it in a very few years.
I have seen some very Redneck shooting houses. All you really need it a good post or rock footers and a sturdy floor frame, decent wall framing and a good roof. The siding on many used to be plywood back when it was cheaper than gold but it could be B&B lumber, lap siding, tar paper, old metal roofing (tends to get a little noisy) or even just camo netting. You can be as simple or a fancy as your budget allows and as long as it provides a safe dry and hopefully out of the wind place to hide where the deer will be crossing it will provide great times and memories for you and even better for the kids and grandkids. I go sit in mine for hours at a time and read books and periodically check out the windows. (No telling how many deer have walked past without me ever seeing them when I was at a good part on my book).
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3351.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1669767163)
Here is my favorite spot. Built in place on the edge of a wide bench on the fork/point between two deep draws. Bottom is 8' above the ground. Built on locust poles cut in the area. 6X6 building with 8X8 roof with shingles - with a leak ::) so I need to either add another row of shingles but I am inclined to add 3 sheets of 8'6" X 3' metal roofing with 4-5 1X4 nailers underneath. The windows are probably too big and they are wide and low because I use it a lot for bow hunting. If/When I get a crossbow I may close them in some more. The ladder butts up to and is lag screwed to a small landing there at the door and I almost cut off the excess length which would have a very bad mistake as they are critical to hold on to when entering and leaving the shooting house. Siding is Norway Spruce a neighbor sawed for me before I ever thought of buying a mill. I see I have taken 13 deer from it since I built it about half with a bow.
Did you know you can age Grey/"Cat" squirrels to a degree by looking for a reddish orange tint to their fur and tail? A young (under one year old) will be completely grey. Older squirrels will have spent more time in the sun and as a result have a reddish tint. The older the squirrel, the redder the tint. Keep that in mind if you are trying to choose between which squirrel to shoot for the pot or how long to par-boil if you have already shot them. Apparently squirrels spent a lot of time laying on limbs in the sun relaxing so their hair color reflects how much time they have been around on this earth and hanging out in the sun.
Another age check is the testicles on a male squirrel. A nearly empty sack it this years young, marble sized with complete hair coverage is probably about a year old. Big enough to make a boar hog envious and with most, if not all, of the hair worn off is an old, old squirrel. From what I have seen a squirrels testicles never seem to stop growing. ::)
yes, but how do they taste Howard? :D
I would be cautious about aging a squirrel by the hair color. I once shot a deer that field dressed 144 lbs. and had a lot of gray hair on his muzzle. An old timer (to me at the time) looked at it and said it was an old deer. Took it to a deer check station and they aged it at 1yr 6months.
They are kind or like eating a possum - Times ain't got that hard yet!
Yes, there can be color phases that change this generality but its a safe bet to assume the squirrel with the red sides is older than the grey one. I guess there are exceptions with the testicle sizes too but I don't think I will go there. ::)
goodness gracious great balls of fire. what do you do with the rest of the squirrel? :snowball: food3 :)
The generally accepted procedure is to eat it. My old mentor would flour and fry them brown in a little oil then wrap them loosely in foil and float them on about an inch of water in a pressure cooker and cook them on 10 lbs pressure for about 10-15 minutes IIRC and the meat would just fall off the bones. He'd serve them with coarse, home grown/ground yellow grits with a pat of butter, hushpuppies and canned field peas he'd grown and canned himself. Very good eating.
On a Cat squirrel as I remember you had 7 pieces - 2 hind legs, 2 front legs, the back was cut into 2 pieces and the head. His favorite piece was the head. He'd eat the brain, cheeks and tongue. I never begrudged him that tidbit. ;)
When I did wildlife control, gray squirrel control made up much of my calls and I trapped and killed a LOT of them. It is incredible how much variation there is in hair color. Black, black with rusty tinge, gray, gray with rusty tinge and combinations of colors. I would wager that the rusty tinge is largely hereditary. Any individual hairs are constantly falling out and being replaced so they would not turn red over years of time. Just my opinion, WV. I do believe, though, that older males are well endowed.
Quote from: doc henderson on December 01, 2022, 09:39:36 AM
goodness gracious great balls of fire. what do you do with the rest of the squirrel? :snowball: food3 :)
Maybe get ideas from molasses manufacturers? :laugh:
KEC,
Thanks for your input. I wonder if we are speaking about the same species (S. carolinensis IIRC).
I know I killed hundreds of them in my youth and there was not much color variation in the ones I killed except the older larger adults commonly had the reddish tint we always attributed to the sun - at least per my maternal grandfather and my experience has not seen anything to refute it.
I don't know if any Wildlife grad student has taken on the "Testicular growth and hair covering in Carolina Grey Squirrels" as his doctorate thesis. Its probably one of those studies that would take many years to reach to a scientific conclusion to follow the growth over many years and they have not been willing to invest the time and energy to do so. You have to know only a very small percentage pf your test subjects are going to reach a ripe old age and every time you see a red-tailed hawk flying off with lunch you will wonder if he just screwed up years of your research. >:( Anesthesia in small rodents is dangerous and has to be minimized and the squirrels become very irate when you try to handle and measure the Squirrel family jewels. Besides, what young man or woman, when invited to a party with all your old college and HS buddies, wants to explain the exciting news he/she has been uncovering about squirrel gonads. ::) In fact, as long as I have known about it, look how long it has taken me to bring it to light and many other members here are still reluctant to comment for fear of latent embarrassment. :D
WV Sawmiller
Are you thinking anyone is doubting your "outdoor" knowledge in "did you know" ?? :D :D
BT,
I have had a number of my observations and comments justifiably challenged and sometimes corrected. It does my heart good when others add comments and observations from their time on the water and in the woods and even sometimes from other continents. As we all know nothing is ever set in stone with the outdoors and wildlife and I love to learn and compare notes with others. :) :)
I hope these observations trigger comments and discussion with the members kids and grandkids and our young folks learn to enjoy the outdoors as much as many of us have done. ;)
WV you do a nice job posting 👍
WV did you know there is/was a band called Squirrel Nut Zippers, for some reason your last few posts jogged my memory of this. ;D
I readily confess - I did not know that. :D
Did you know the San/Bushmen of Namibia use Ostrich eggs as canteens? They chip a small hole in the end of the egg and extract the egg itself then they clean and save the empty egg shell as a container. They make a sort of basket or net using twine made from bark, vines or other local fiber to hold the egg and make a sort of strap to go across their shoulder as a carrier. They make a plug of come local wood to keep the water from spilling or splashing out. I'd guess an ostrich egg shell canteen would hold nearly a quart of water.
Thanks to Beenthere I now know that a flock of wild turkeys is also called a "Rafter".
Did you know a young gobbler is called a Jake? I'd heard that but read today that a young hen is called a Jennie. Never heard that term - maybe because nobody would admit to killing a hen.
Did you know that a flock of crows is called a murder?
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What do you call a pair of crows?
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An attempted murder! ;)
And a group of owls is called a Wisdom, a parliament, a hooting or a stare.
BTW - I had heard the term "A raft of something" to mean a lot. I wonder if that term came a Rafter.
I also wonder where the term rafter came for a flock of turkeys. Maybe a flock lit on the rafters of a barn some farmer was building?
I wonder if anything beside quail group together in coveys?
People often refer to a group of waterfowl on the water as "a raft of ducks" or geese, etc. Did you know that in the winter, Long-eared Owls and Short-eared owls gather in flocks? The Short-eareds hunt in flocks over grassy fields for voles. The Long-eareds also hunt for voles, but they spread out to hunt. The Long-eareds roost during the day in dense stands of conifers, sometimes in large numbers in a single roost. In Kikinda, Serbia, right in town is the largest known roost of Long-eared Owls. One year, that single flock of birds roosting together numbered over 700! My former FIL told once of seeing 12 in a pine stand behind his house. I was skeptical when he told me until I learned that they roost in flocks.
Did you know the San/Bushmen of Namibia make jewelry out of ostrich eggs? They break the eggs with a stick or mallet of some type then take the small pieces and nip the corners off with a nail clipper then drill a small hole in the middle with a hand awl and string the pieces into necklaces and bracelets and such. They alter the color in some pieces to a dark brown by heating them in a frying pan. I did not know egg shells turned color when heated but the ostrich egg shells did.
Here in the UP, a few partridges together is called a covey. A few in hand is called a brace.Haven't seen a covey in recent years. Don't know why. Sharp tail grouse used to be in flocks of a dozen or more. Have disappeared maybe thirty years ago. Maybe because of habitat and no more small family farms. Same with the prairie chicken.
Going back to elevated hunting stands, I have determined to make one out of the old sawver's box from a now scrapped Frick Timber Tiger mill I had. It is the perfect size, metal body, with a solid roof, window openings on the sides and a door in the back. I'll have to replace the windows with some kind of sliders, but that should be all. I'll also need a machine to lift it in the air. I do believe it will be the only mill cab converted to such duty.
Dan W,
I had read the term brace but thought that was a pair. Can it be more than 2?
Google says: A brace of game birds is a pair of birds of the same type taken by a hunter.
Says the term dates back to the year 1400.
Did you know a handy tool to have available and use when skinning and processing a deer (and probably other game) is a pair of fisherman's pincers? Those are the wide, flat bladed pincers used to skin a catfish and such. They work well to grab a thin piece of meat to pull it away from the hide or you can grab the hide from the underside and pull while cutting the meat free in those tight spaces around the neck or where the hide wants to cling to the meat around the belly and such. You can also use them to grab and separate fat and sinew you want to remove from the hide or meat.
I have a skinning rack and fish cleaning station built on to the back of my boathouse where I clean all my fish and game and keep a couple of pair of pinchers and fish scalers there. I was reminded last night while skinning a young buck that the pincers work just as well to help grab a hold of met or hide to help separate them as needed. Try them next time.
Interesting terminologies from different eras and different parts of the country! As Yogi Berra would say: " Our similarities are different!" I vaguely recall a picture in an outdoor type magazine of a couple of ruffed grouse hunters with several pats calling it a brace. But that's ok.
Actually, I have just read the term "brace" relating to game harvested and nobody I knew actually used that term.
Where I grew up in the deep South everything would have been a "mess". We have had a mess of fish, a mess of turnips, a mess of quail, etc. :D
We touched briefly on them a while back and I must admit I do not use them but did you know shooting sticks are used as a rest to help steady a shooter's aim? The first ones I ever saw and the most simple design is simply a pair of sticks about head high tied together near the top - maybe 6"-12" from the top. When the shooter goes to use them he simply spreads them apart to make a fork at the top which he uses to rest his rifle on. To adjust the height for slope or such he can pull the sticks closer together or spread them further apart thereby quickly adjusting the height of the fork to allow the shooter to aim more uphill, downhill or level as needed. They are more commonly used for shooters walking around stalk hunting rather than for hunters in a stationary blind where they can rest they rifle on the side of the shooting house/blind or portable deer stand. Some climbing and ladder stands have an optional rifle rest for that purpose.
Some of the fancier store bought shooting sticks may be a tripod arrangement with an attachment to clip to upper sling mount. I think they are more commonly used out west for elk or mule deer hunting possibly at longer distances that than we usually shoot in the east.
If you watch people hunting in Africa and such shooting sticks are commonly used to shoot big dangerous game out there.
BTW - who ever thought up the idea of a gun-bearer carrying your rifle for you? I can see me on the veldt in Africa somewhere stalking a massive Kudu Ram when suddenly an angry Elephant/Rhino/Cape Buffalo/Lion/Hippo (You pick one) comes charging out of the brush at me and I calmly and sternly say "Mbobo, hand me my rifle and shooting sticks. Mbobo? Mbobo? Has anyone seen Mbobo?" :o
Anyway, if you have experience using shooting sticks please chime in with your observations, opinions and suggestions.
I've used a shooting stick for years. I've had several types; most were height adjustable. I've used one for hunting with a rifle or crossbow in a soft sided ground blind, tree stand, or when walking while hunting. They provide a solid noise free rest for the weapon.
Ron,
Are your shooting sticks factory or home made? What kind of attachments do they use? What changes would you make to them after using them if you could do so or are they perfect as is?
Does the same shooting sticks work for both gun and crossbow?
I use the Primos stick for both gun and crossbow. No changes needed, IMO. Perfect as is.
I've gotten mine from Cabela's over the years. Now they are readily available at most sports stores. I have not had to make any modifications to them. They have automatic height adjustments which can be easily set for whatever position you are in.
They also have attachments where they can be mounted on the weapon, but I just rest the weapon on the "Y" top end at the height needed for a good sight picture.
I've seen some hand made from a crouched stick years back, but the height was precut to your liking. Now they are plastic made, very durable, and easily adjusted for height desired. I'd be lost without one, especially when my old age requires a walking stick. ;)
Do you know why a tight string or rope would not work well as a rifle rest? I think I have heard my son talk about tying a loop in a string and hanging it from a shooting house roof and putting the rifle barrel in as a rest. I have not tried it yet but I don't see why a tightly stretched line would not work.
I looked on line and never found where anybody suggested or showed them using string or rope as a rifle rest.
It would do little to suppress lateral movement but would probably be better than "offhand".
Being that you said "barrel" it could change the point of impact so I would have to verify the zero.
I'm thinking a "U" shape would be more sturdy and easier to use which I guess would be a "V" shape once you rest a rifle on it.
A "V" shape is guaranteed to fit any rifle forearm as it settles down whereas the "U" would have to be larger to accommodate the various forearm sizes.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN0423.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1382227684)
My shooting stick is seen on the right in the above picture. It is a manufacture discontinued Stoney Point Pole Cat that has a twist lock adjustable length and is at least 20 years old.
MM,
Strange/Unexpected picture there. I was envisioning you in your typical shorts, boots, and welder's apron chasing those pore defenseless elk in Colorado. :D :D
Did you know a raccoon skull seems to be much thicker on the front than from the back or maybe the sides? I caught 3 half grown ones then the next night the mother on my porch where they had been stealing Sampson's dog food last week. I dispatched them with my .177 breakdown pellet rifle. The young ones were no problem but several times the pellets just bounced off the adult skull from a front on shot. Finally she turned around and the pellet readily penetrated from the rear. I'll have to remember that next time I get another one.
I remember my grandfather talking about shooting trapped bears in Fla when he was a teen (they had a hog claim of several thousand free range hogs in the Steinhatchee River Swamp and bears were a constant problem for them) he said you needed to shoot them in "that thin spot" on the side of the skull. In anatomy class many, many years later I found that was the temporal bone and it really was much thinner than the front of the skull. I remember close combat classes in the USMC also identified that as a preferred target area.
I guess another option for the coons would be use a .22 rifle but the pellet gun is quieter and cheaper.
Our foreheads are thick, as they contain the frontal sinuses. these do not develop in humans till about the age of 5 years. then they have a hollow air cell area. If you have a sinusitis, it should be focal. like an ice pick going through the skull. if on the right forehead, you have a right frontal sinusitis. many folks come to the ED with a runny nose, and if it starts to get cloudy, or yellow green, they think they have a sinus infection. Most infection in the ears and sinuses are when something get clogged due to inflammation say from virus (cold) then fill with fluid, and that in turn gets infected from bacteria in the mouth and nose. this is why with recurrent ear infection, kids get tubes so the fluid cannot build up when the eustachian tube gets swollen shut. mastoids are in your cheek bones and you have ethmoid and sphenoid sinusitis that gives the pain "behind the eyes". Mastoids are behind each ear and not considered a sinus, but you can get mastoiditis, and I had one case that had eroded into the brain. young patient did ok in the hospital. Did you know that my middle name starts with a K? :) :) :)
roof of the mouth and temples are good spots for animals in need of moving on to the next life.
Kansas?
Quote from: Hilltop366 on December 08, 2022, 08:24:50 AM
I'm thinking a "U" shape would be more sturdy and easier to use which I guess would be a "V" shape once you rest a rifle on it.
To clarify I was referring to the string / rope idea in the post previous to mine shown below. :)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 07, 2022, 10:23:40 PM
Do you know why a tight string or rope would not work well as a rifle rest? I think I have heard my son talk about tying a loop in a string and hanging it from a shooting house roof and putting the rifle barrel in as a rest. I have not tried it yet but I don't see why a tightly stretched line would not work.
I looked on line and never found where anybody suggested or showed them using string or rope as a rifle rest.
even a wire would be a bit springy drawn side to side, but with some triangulated support to the roof as well, and you have a suspension bridge.
Quote from: Magicman on December 08, 2022, 08:55:06 AM
A "V" shape is guaranteed to fit any rifle forearm as it settles down whereas the "U" would have to be larger to accommodate the various forearm sizes.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN0423.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1382227684)
My shooting stick is seen on the right in the above picture. It is a manufacture discontinued Stoney Point Pole Cat that has a twist lock adjustable length and is at least 20 years old.
Check out Will Primos products, Jackson, MS
I am familiar with Will's trigger stick. Primos Trigger Stick (https://www.primos.com/shooting-sticks/trigger-sticks-mono-pods/trigger-stick-gen3-tall-monopod-shooting-stick/PO-65813.html)
I have met and talked with Will several times and the Primos turkey call factory is here in Brookhaven.
Did you know WV muzzleloading deer season opens next week? Do you hunt with a muzzleloader? Have you used and do you understand how a muzzleloader works?
There are different features and options on modern muzzleloaders but the basics are that the gunpowder (loose powder or in pelletized form) is dropped down from the muzzle end of the gun then a bullet (A patched round ball, a miniball or a sabotted modern hunting bullet) is pushed down the barrel using a bullet starter and ramrod and seated tightly against the powder. An igniter, normally a percussion cap, sometimes an old fashioned flint, sometimes a modern rifle or shotgun shell primer or even an electrical spark system, is placed over a nipple or pan. When the trigger is pulled the igniter is activated creating a small flame or spark which goes through a tiny hole in the nipple or bore and ignites the powder in the barrel of the gun pushing the bullet out the barrel.
Breech loaders like modern weapons combine the powder, primer (igniter) and bullet/shot into a prepackaged shell or cartridge that is loaded from the breech end of the gun for a cleaner, simpler operation.
Do not get the impression muzzle loaders are not as accurate. I have an inexpensive .50 caliber Thompson Thunderhawk model muzzleloader that, with a 240 grain .45 caliber copper jacketed pistol bullet in a plastic sabot consistently shoots better groups at 100 yards than my Remington 7600 pump 30-06 rifle. The cause may be me and not the guns but it is still a fact.
I have a cva wolf which is their entry level gun. Verry accurate. with 100 grains blackhorn 209 it is 1 inch high at 100 yards and 3 in low at 165 yards I use 165 yards as that is the farthest I can shoot where I sit. Break action like a single shot shotgun. Have dropped a deer in in its tracks at 115 yards. Shot several with it and never had to track one which is more than I can say using a centerfire rifle.
What bullet type and weight are you using? Round ball? Miniball? Sabotted hunting bullet?
Mine was a gift but if I were buying one or recommending one for a new ML hunter I'd suggest a stainless steel breakdown because they seem so much easier to maintain and clean.
Knight disc extreme 52. Muzzleloader here
Bullet type and weight and powder load? Comments on accuracy and effectiveness?
It's been years since I shot the bad boy. Knight had and still do have guaranteed accuracy. MOA to 200 yards. I'll look and take a few pictures of it and see what grain bullets I have. I used three pyro pellets but you can use two. It is accurate with open sights at 100 yards. I was always going to put a scope on and just might do that this season. 100% made in the USA
Knight Rifles is an American manufacturer of modern muzzleloading rifles and shotguns that pioneered the in-line muzzleloader in the mid-1980s. The company was founded in 1985 by Tony Knight, a gunsmith from rural Worthington, Missouri, and is now owned by PI, Inc.
...
WB,
I use 2- 50 grain Pyrodex pellets in mine. I also replaced the nipple that used a #11 percussion cap and replaced it with one using musket caps which shoot a lot hotter. I have had #11 caps misfire/fail to ignite the powder charge.
Did you know a #11 percussion cap is a little brass cap just a little bigger than the non-writing/clicker end of a ballpoint pen? It has a tiny amount of gunpowder in it similar to a kids cap gun cap. When struck with the hammer or bolt of the muzzleloader it explodes and the flame goes through a tiny hole in the nipple setting off the gunpowder in the barrel. A musket cap does the same thing only in looks more like the end of a .22 cartridge.
With my fat fingers I had trouble placing the tiny #11 percussion cap over the nipple and often had to use my needle-nosed pliers on my Leatherman tool or a plastic loader designed for that. The musket caps are bigger and easier to place on the nipple and shoot something like 400 times hotter than a #11 cap IIRC so they are much more effective in igniting the gunpowder. Both #11 and musket caps come in little cans kind of like a snuff can.
Thompson Center .45. Use the .45-70 load
TR,
I don't know what a .45-70 load is. Can you elucidate (and explain ;))?
EDIT: Ooops - cerebral flatulence at work. .45-70 means a .45 caliber bullet and 70 grains of black powder. Just as .45-90 means 90 grains of black powder. I don't know what the bullet weight was but remembered the second number is the black powder load. ::)
300 grain hornady sst sabot. 209 shotgun primer, break action cva wolf, 100 grains blackhorn 209 powder. breach plug has always screwed out easy. Had an early knight and didnt like the way it came apart to clean. I like easy and simple. Also had good luck with american pioneer powder.
Re: the 45-70 case is 2.105" long, while the 45-90 case is 2.40" long.
Therefore, the 45-70 cartridge can be fired in a 45-90 rifle, but not vice versa!
Did you know probably the most important implement used with a muzzleloader is the ramrod? They were originally made of hard, strong wood but now are often made of fiberglass or some other composite. The ramrod fits in a set of rings under the rifle. It is used to push the bullet down the barrel and to seat the bullet tightly against the powder charge. It is usually tapped and an assortment of fittings can be screwed into the tip for cleaning and maintenance. The most common attachment is probably the one used to run a patch down the barrel to clean the bore. Another attachment has a couple of wire like prongs on it that is used to retrieve a patch that comes off in the bore. Another attachment is a bullet puller. It has a screw arrangement on the tip and if the powder gets wet or damaged and will not fire the shooter attaches the bullet puller to the ramrod, runs it down the barrel then screws it into the soft lead bullet. Once screwed into the bullet the bullet is pulled out, the powder is emptied out the end and the bore is cleaned, new powder is added and you start over.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 10, 2022, 11:40:56 AM
TR,
I don't know what a .45-70 load is. Can you elucidate (and explain ;))?
EDIT: Ooops - cerebral flatulence at work. .45-70 means a .45 caliber bullet and 70 grains of black powder. Just as .45-90 means 90 grains of black powder. I don't know what the bullet weight was but remembered the second number is the black powder load. ::)
There were several weights, I think I used a 200 grain for large critters, and the lightest with a reduced charge for squirrels
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3353.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1670850019)
Here are the implements I mentioned before. The metal end of the ramrod is threaded to accept them. The first is a bullet puller you screw into the lead bullet to remove it if the powder fails to ignite. The second is the attachment for a cleaning patch. The third is another bullet puller - I don't know why I have two of them. The fourth is the little jag to remove a patch that gets stuck in the barrel. The last tool is a nipple wrench. It is welded to a 6" 1/4" drive. Normally it is on a T wrench affair.
Did you know most muzzleloader hunters carry speed loaders which is basically a plastic holder where you pre-stage the components needed to load and fire your muzzleloader.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3354.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1670850470)
This speed loader a bullet in the end. In my case there is a .45 caliber 240 grain copper jacketed pistol ball in the green .50 caliber sabot. Behind that it has a compartment where you pour a premeasured load of black powder or place powder pellets. The little side space is for a #11 percussion cap - I have not been able to find one for a musket cap since I changed the nipple. I leave the musket cap in the same compartment with a powder pellets.
The first deer I ever killed with a muzzleloader was a suicidal doe under my feeder about 40 yards away. When I went to shoot her I found my front sight had fallen off so I aimed the best I could, fired missed and she kept feeding so I grabbed a speed loader and reloaded from my climbing stand. I tried and missed again. I grabbed a second speed loader and reloader, again. This time I aimed much lower and compensated correctly and dropped her on the spotd
I replaced the front sight but the next one also fell off so when WV started allowing use of scopes on muzzleloaders, I added a scope and have used it ever since.
I was out deer hunting in 1994. Had my Rem 870 with a Hastings retrofit rifled barrel. I knocked the front bead sight on a sapling and it was over to one side. Not wanting to quit hunting, I reached down and slid it over in the dovetail to where I thought it should be. Maybe 15 minutes later I shot a 3 1/2 year old 8pt that scored 106 at about 60 yards offhand and drilled in through the heart. I felt pretty smug.
yes, but what were you shooting at? :)
Doc,
I don't know who that question is directed to.
Back on topic:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3355.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1670948313)
As mentioned previously here are a couple of percussion caps with a dime for scale. The little one on the right is a #11 cap and the larger one on the left is a musket cap. All I had to do to change them was change the nipple they fit over. As you can see the musket cap is larger and easier to handle and obviously has a much larger powder charge to ignite the powder in the bore.
Did you know that black powder is very dirty and corrosive and you often need to swab the bore after just a shot or two just to get the next load down the bore? Also it does not like hydrocarbons and contact with oil or WD-40 and such will cause it not to ignite so after you clean the bore and nipple and surrounding area with a special bore cleaner, some folks even use hot soapy water, you need to dry and lube the bore and components with "Bore Butter" which is a vegetable oil or animal fat based lubricant. My son just uses Crisco vegetable shortening (I'll have to ask him if regular or butter flavored works better. :D) on a patch to lube the bore and he wipes the bolt and nipple down good with it. It is also a good idea to grease your sabot, mini-ball or lube the patch good if using a patched round ball. For example my .50 caliber shoots a .49 caliber round ball and I use a greased cotton patch about 1" in diameter behind it to seal it good. I think during old timey battles the shooters often spit on the patch and may have used paper as wadding.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3357.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1670948958)
Here is my tube of bore butter I have been using to lube my bullets, bore, bolt and nipple.
KEC said he did a field repair to the fore sight, and shot, and hit a deer. He did not say what he was aiming at. :)
Oh, I see (said the blind man to the deaf wife on the telephone).
Which reminds me:
One sunny day in the middle of the night, two deaf boys stepped out to fight.
Back to back they faced each other, drew their knives and shot each other.
Now if you don't believe that this lie is true.
Ask the blind man because he saw it too.
It's also good to have a "bullet starter" in your muzzle loader kit. I have 3 50 caliber Thompsons: the Thompson Renegade Hunter, Thunderhawk, and Triumph.
Mine is a Knight Disc, I guess the original. Have had it probably 20 years. Shoots well. I use 2 Pyrodex pellets, .50 caliber ut I use .45 handgun projectiles with sabots, 209 shotgun primer, scope. Gets cleaned and lubed every time I use it so have had no problems with things coming apart.
Ron,
Good point. And also don't get in a hurry forcing the bullet down the bore with the ramrod.
Several years ago I was up in a climbing stand on the back corner of my property during ML season. A couple of does came out under me and I shot the biggest one in the head. She ran 20 yards and stood there all spraddle-legged and her yearling was beside her. I thought about shooting it but did not feel like processing 2 deer in one day. The doe would not fall so I decided to put another round in her. I loaded 2 pellets of Pyrodex then started a saboted bullet down the bore but got careless and broke my ramrod halfway down. There I was in a tree and could not finish loading or shoot so I lowered my ML on a cord and started climbing down. The doe and yearling ran down the hill. I went home to get my .22 and come back with Sampson to find her. I was confident I would as there was 2-3 inches of snow on the ground and she had a massive blood trail. I got home and my son was there after successful hunt at his friends place. He had a spare ramrod so I finished loading the ML and we went back to track her down. We got up the ridge and found a big pool of blood and started tracking then we came across a patch of turned up snow where a big flock of turkeys had torn everything up and we lost the trail. To make matter worse my son stepped in the pool of blood and every step he made he made a new blood trail and we did not find the doe. About a week later I spotted a dead deer in the lot next door. I went down and checked and sure enough there was a .44 caliber hole in her head. She had run straight down the hill, crossed the pasture fence and creek and fell dead 200 yards from my house.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3359.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1670976669)
I hunted my lower stand from daylight till 1000 this morning and saw nothing but a bunch of amorous squirrels. I guess it is mating season. at least for the fox squirrels. My feeder battery barely spun the plate.
I came in, had lunch, packaged a batch of corned deer from my last deer then went back to hunt this afternoon. I was going to put a fresh battery in the feeder then go hunt my upper shooting house. About half way up the pasture a doe and yearling jumped up so I shut the ATV off, took my ML off my back and pulled a musket cap out of my pocket and primed it. The doe had stopped then was walking about 80 yards above me so I centered my crosshair on her heart and shot. She ran like she was hit so I rode up and started looking for a blood trail but first did not see any so I went back and started over and found blood at my cross fence then looked down to the pasture below and spotted her laying there dead. She had run about 200 yards. The .44 copper jacketed 240 grain bullet had passed through both front legs and cut a furrow across her heart. I went and put the battery in the feeder then came back and dragged this 126 lb doe to my skinning rack.
I got her skinned and gutted and pulled the shoulders and backstraps and trimmed a gallon of meat off the sides. I'll finish trimming the backbone and ribs tomorrow and will de-bone the hams and shoulders. I have the loins, tenderloins and some of the brisket corning now, the shoulders and neck are soaking overnight and will leave the bone in the neck for a roast and will grind, stuff and smoke the rest of the deer for sausage and maybe some summer sausage.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3356.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1671025928)
We have been talking about bullets and Sabots but do you use or know what a sabot is? The picture above shows the load I use in my .50 caliber muzzleloader. The green plastic piece is a factory sabot that perfectly fits my .50 caliber diameter of the bore. I use a .44, 240 grain copper jacketed bullet (Basically a .44 magnum pistol round) that is placed in the opening of the sabot, lubed then pushed down the bore on top of 2-50 grain Pyrodex pellets. The sabot keeps the smaller diameter bullet perfectly centered as it goes down the bore. The outside dimeter of the sabot makes a tight seal so the escaping gases push it forward instead of rushing out around it. The sabot allows you to shoot a smaller diameter bullet that can shoot faster. The sabot separates from the bullet once it leaves the muzzle so the energy is used to propel the bullet faster and further.
Another advantage of the sabot is you can use it to convert your big game rifle into a varmint rifle by using the same gun to shoot heavy big game loads for deer, elk, moose or bear, then change to lighter, faster varmint loads for groundhogs, prairie dogs, coyotes, etc. I know you can load 30-06 rounds up to 220 grains for big game but with a sabot you can use the same gun to shoot .22 caliber bullets.
BTW - if you use sabots in your ML you can buy them in bulk at a much better rate than buying the prepacked cards with 5-10 bullets. The ones above were from a bag of 100 sabots and a box of 100 bullets I bought at a reloading supply place. I don't think I paid more than if I'd bought 10-15 prepacked. Bullets like these by the box used to be about 5 cents each. They are stupid money now if you can find them but still cheaper in bulk.
I suspect most modern sabots are made of plastic but paper and other materials were used as a patch to adjust to fit different bore sizes.
Yes, I've heard some sad stories about broken ramrods. Especially before they went to the carbon, fiberglass ones.
That is the same bullet and sabot I use in my Knight Disc. 2 pellets and you are good to go!
Troy,
Yeah. I was surprised the doe above ran as far as she did with that round right through her heart area. Another odd thing was when I found her she was facing back towards the direction she had come from instead of the in the direction she had been running. The bullet had passed through both front legs and out the other side. There was a lot of boodshot/bruising in the muscles of both front legs indicating a lot of trauma.
I've seen heart-shot deer run 80-100 yds more than once. That's why I only do neck shots now. They go straight down. Upper neck shot saves most all the meat on the deer. I am in a shooting shed with a rest or brace on a tree. It's a mess opening one up shot broadside, not so neck shot.
My muzzleloader is a Thompson Center (TC) Encore, labeled 209x50 Magnum.
I have always used the black TC magnum sabots and my 240 grain cast SWC bullets with good results.
Never had a deer go much more than out of sight, most dropped in sight!
This rifle will handle 150 grains of powder, I use two 50 grain Pyradex pellets.
I use a peep sight vs scope, and have taken deer out to 140 yards.
A bullet that passes through both shoulders is a bit too far forward. Deer that die running will often flip.
I've shot a few in the neck and several in the head. I thought about shooting this one in the neck but liked the heart shot from where I was positioned. I lost the doe I mentioned earlier with a head shot and shot another who ran a few yards and stood there addled. I killed a small buck in Ga one time that had been shot in the jaw and was starving to death. I don't know if it was a rifle or buckshot. Mine was a mercy shot as I did not check or process him. He was very thin and obviously in great pain.
The best shot I ever made was a head shot on one about 100 yards away. I could see most of the body but not much of the kill area. I could see the neck and nose in a 4" gap between 2 forks on a tree. I cranked my scope up to 9 power and got a rock solid rest on the window of my shooting house and squeezed off the shot using a 150 grain soft point in my Remington 7600 30-06. I figured I'd kill it graveyard dead or hit a tree. The deer dropped on the spot.
Well, actually my best shot was as described below in the attachment. :D
Lynn,
The bullet passed through the meat on the back side of both front legs. It did not hit or break a bone in either leg which would have dropped her quicker but messed up a lot more meat. It cut a groove through the heart but did not shatter it like it would have if an inch lower.
She was in the upper edge of my pasture in the woodline about 20 yards from the fence and ran over the ridge and down into the clear pasture area. Yes, she may have flipped end over end when she died.
They don't get any easier to access or tow out than where she fell.
Jim Zumbo knows a thing or to about hunting.
https://www.americanhunter.org/content/are-neck-shots-on-big-game-a-good-idea/ (https://www.americanhunter.org/content/are-neck-shots-on-big-game-a-good-idea/)
Did you know a flintlock muzzleloader has the powder and ball loaded down the bore then has a small pan with a nipple arrangement for the spark and a small pan holds a small measure of fine powder. A small flint on the end of the hammer strikes metal and creates a spark when fired which lights the powder in the pan which in turn sets off the powder in the bore. If you watch there is typically a flash and a puff of smoke and flame then a slight delay then the second explosion as the powder in the bore fires off.
Sometimes there is a significant delay between the powder in the pan lighting and setting off the load in the bore and the hunter has to keep his rifle aimed at the target area till it finally goes off.
In very early guns instead of a flint they used what was called "slow match" which was a piece of slow burning string with a red coal on the tip that made contact with the flash powder to set it off. I read a tale where a group of Indians figured that out in a supposed trade the chief told the leader of the mountain men, or whomever, the red glow scared his men and the traders put out the slow match. Then the Indians killed them all. ::)
"Keep your powder dry!"
Troy,
That expression evidently came from the old flintlock days when the powder in the pan would get damp. I think the shooters back then used to wrap a greased cloth around the hammer and pan area to keep it dry. I think another problem was when shooting in high wind a gust could blow the powder out of the pan.
In WV a loaded muzzleloader can be transported and is consider "unloaded" as long as there is no cap on the nipple, flint on the hammer, shotshell primer in the nipple or a battery in the guns that use a spark for ignition.
Many hunters simply fire their gun at the end of the day as the easiest and safest way to unload it. If you listen you will hear guns going off every day during muzzleloader season at or just after sunset. I just remove the percussion cap until the last day then fire out the round/load then clean and lube and put it away till next year.
That saying came around for anyone using black powder. You couldn't fire a cannon, flintlock or musket with damp powder. I do some black powder shooting contests and am a Rev War reenactor with a musket.
Shooting in damp conditions is really tough as the powder doesn't burn all that well due to moisture uptake and your gun will foul rapidly as well. I have seen my powder in the pan turn into a clump on hot humid days if not fired immediately after pouring it and have also had hand-rolled cartridges turn fairly solid.
If I don't shoot mine, I just remove the primer, unscrew the plug, toss the pellets and sabot, save the bullet for next year. Cleaning time is reduced to almost nothing!
I'm not firing or unloading my muzzleloader every night. It's in there for three or four days before it gets unloaded. No problem
Troy,
I assume you are shooting a breakdown ML and can empty the load easier than ones like mine. I can remove the nipple from the rear but cannot remove the powder pellets or bullet from the rear. If I remove the load from the muzzle end I destroy/damage the bullet and would probably not want to re-use the bullet, powder pellet or bullet.
As I said I just remove the percussion cap to make sure the weapon is safe. I leave the same load in my ML for the whole week then the last day I shoot the load out. That sounds like what WB is doing too. If my ML were of a different design I'd do it differently.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 15, 2022, 09:07:48 AM
Did you know a flintlock muzzleloader has the powder and ball loaded down the bore then has a small pan with a nipple arrangement for the spark and a small pan holds a small measure of fine powder. A small flint on the end of the hammer strikes metal and creates a spark when fired which lights the powder in the pan which in turn sets off the powder in the bore. If you watch there is typically a flash and a puff of smoke and flame then a slight delay then the second explosion as the powder in the bore fires off.
Sometimes there is a significant delay between the powder in the pan lighting and setting off the load in the bore and the hunter has to keep his rifle aimed at the target area till it finally goes off.
In very early guns instead of a flint they used what was called "slow match" which was a piece of slow burning string with a red coal on the tip that made contact with the flash powder to set it off. I read a tale where a group of Indians figured that out in a supposed trade the chief told the leader of the mountain men, or whomever, the red glow scared his men and the traders put out the slow match. Then the Indians killed them all. ::)
Sometimes the primer in the pan would light but the fire in the pan would fail to light the charge. All show and no go, just a "flash in the pan".
I think Troy has a Knight also. On the in line there is the bolt you take out and breach plug. That's it. Just push everything out. You actually have two safeties also. Your regular one and on the bolt there is a screw in and out on the end for the cap pin to fire
Fun stuff talking about the muzzleloaders. It's been a long time but it is pretty cool shooting them!
If I were buying one I would definitely look at the breakdown version with the shotshell primer instead of a percussion cap (assuming you can find shotgun or rifle primers these days) just because of the ease of maintenance.
Mine is a royal pain to clean. Remove the gun from the stock (2 screws), unscrew the rear cap and pull the spring, bolt and bolt pin/lever, unscrew and remove the nipple with the nipple wrench then install a special nipple attached to a 2 oz bottle with bore cleaner. The nipple and bottle are connected with a flexible hose, wet a patch with bore cleaner and swab the bore a few times which pulls the bore cleaner from the bottle with the vacuum created. Remove the bottle and nipple, swab the bore dry then lube it with bore butter. Clean the receiver and bolt/components with bore cleaner and swabs and pipe cleaner then lube with bore butter and reassemble then reattach to the stock. It kills the better part of an hour.
But the gun was a gift and it is very accurate and fun to shoot - just no fun to clean. ::)
It's fun hunting with them, but I dislike the cleaning part also. ;)
Quote from: Walnut Beast on December 15, 2022, 05:23:31 PMOn the in line there is the bolt you take out and breach plug. That's it. Just push everything out. You actually have two safeties also. Your regular one and on the bolt there is a screw in and out on the end for the cap pin to fire
Yes. The Knight I have has a bolt, remove a small screw on the receiver and the bolt comes completely out. I remove the screw on the bottom of the stock and the barrel comes off. The breech plug unscrews, then use ramrod to push sabot and bullet out the breech plug end. The pellets of powder crumbles so is unusable. I see no safety issues in this process. If unfired, I swab and lube barrel and other parts, reassemble. 10 minutes tops. If fired, I scrub, well....., see post above, that's what I do.
Did you know that you can wear out a firing pin? I just got back from the trap range and last few weeks I've started having misfires from poor primer impressions. 5 last week, 3 tonight. Buddy shot my failed rounds tonight, fine in his gun. Think maybe my firing pin is worn.....
Don't know how many rounds firing pins are good for but this trap gun was acquired in the early 90's so it has burnt a little powder. Hope I can find a pin....
I came across an old Marlin .22 years ago. Similar issue, fired inconsistently. Replaced pin, no issues since.
Originally to "shoot your wad" was a phrase from around the time of the civil war, referring to shooting nothing but a patch, you were spent. Over time the meaning certainly changed.
Senator Hatch was probably a wee lad during the aforementioned unpleasantness and in some debate or other on the floor of the senate used that phrase while making his point. Nobody remembers what his point was but the proper little old ladies were beside themselves :D
Do you know how to tell if your muzzleloader is loaded? I have not seen it happen but I imagine it would be pretty traumatic if you double loaded your ML and fired it.
The most common practice to check is by marking your ramrod. Most people would load their ML then insert the ramrod and mark a ring around it at the end of the barrel. If the ramrod is inserted and does not go past the park it has a load in it. It seems a better way might be to insert the ramrod in an empty bore then mark it. Then if you inserted your ramrod in a loaded rifle the mark would be clearly showing. There is no reason you could not make 2 marks and mark an E and L on them for empty or loaded.
My son told me last night another technique he uses is to remove the percussion cap and blow down the barrel. If the rifle is empty air will pass through the nipple/breech plug at the opposite end of the barrel. If the ML is loaded the air will not pass through.
If you do this be sure to remove the percussion cap, primer, flint or battery to the electric starter so you don't blow the back of your head off. You could also remove the nipple or breech plug and hold the rifle up to the light and see if you can see light through it. If you can, it is empty.
My son often buys, sells and trades firearms and military surplus items and has bought several ML people thought were empty but when he checked he found they were loaded. I sometimes watch old episodes of Pawn Stars and people often bring in ML there only to find it they are loaded with a charge and ball in the bore.
Another trick my son uses it to use 2 ramrods. One is cut to the length of his rifle barrel and stays on the ML. Another is a much longer uncut ramrod he leaves at home and uses for cleaning and maintenance, He swears the extra length makes it much easier to use. An uncut fiberglass ramrod is readily available at most gun shops and are not very expensive so having a spare makes good sense.
A hard ball or "T" handle which can be easily made placed over the end of the ramrod also makes it easier to push the ramrod into the barrel and also prevent a possible hand injury from the small ramrod end.
Ron,
My bullet starter was designed as you describe above - a T handle with about a 4" pusher bar but I broke it at some point and have not gotten a new one yet. My son made me one with a deer antler but it only seats the bullet about an inch and I really need a longer one. It seems the first 3-4 inches is the hardest to get the bullet past then it seems to slide down much easier. I often use a folded up glove on top to push the ramrod down. It's not feasible for hunting but a person would be well served with a set of 3-4 progressively longer ramrods to push the bullet down in stages.
I just finished grinding and mixing the deer meat from the doe pictured above. I am corning 7.5 lbs of meat off the backstraps, loins, tenderloins and brisket. I packaged the neck as a bone-in roast as too much trouble to de-bone IMHO. I ended up with 33 lbs of venison to grind so the deboned 125 lb live weight deer returned just over 40 lbs of boneless meat which track with my previous experience of about 1/3 boneless meat off a deer. I ground and added about 14 lbs pork stew and loin for added fat. Grinding was always my hardest task with my old hand crank grinder but I bought a second hand Oster 1/3 hp grinder last year and it worked like a champ. It never stopped or got pieces of fat or sinew wrapped around the cutter blade or stopped up the plates. I see I don't have to trim the meat nearly as close in the future. I ground it with a coarse plate alternating pork and deer. I added the spices and mixed in 4-5 pans and a bucket then reground with the fine plate alternating pulling meat from different pans to ensure the ratio of spices and pork to deer was as uniform as possible. Tomorrow I'll stuff the cases and start smoking. That may be 2 years worth of breakfast sausage by the time I am done. Instead of hot dogs I may be using a lot of venison sausage next year. We will see.
I think my bullet starter has a 2.5" or so round ball and is about 4" long. Also have one of the T handle things that can be used to push the ramrod.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 16, 2022, 08:45:32 PMIt never stopped or got pieces of fat or sinew wrapped around the cutter blade or stopped up the plates. I see I don't have to trim the meat nearly as close in the future. I ground it with a coarse plate alternating pork and deer.
Do you get your grinding meat almost frozen before grinding? I cut all mine up, then place it in the freezer until it starts to harden up a little. Grind it quick before it thaws or it mushes up. Made my sausage with pork belly as that's what I could find at the time. Legg's Seasoning, natural casings and you are good to go!
Troy,
I work the meat a cool as possible and did put as much of this in the freezer to chill it before grinding as I could. I am seriously running out of freezer space and will have to move some stored ice and such to freeze the finished sausages. I may even have to go on a serious ice cream eating binge to make some more space - "Okay, okay, quit twisting my arm. I'll go ahead and eat another bowl of butter pecan." :D
I probably should be working on building an old fashioned smoke house to store this in. ::) My son's MIL makes and cans sausage but it is bulk sausage I am pretty sure.
Let me see what this is costing me:
Pork - $42 (The store only had 5 lbs of pork stew so Pork loin was the next cheapest cut at around $3/lb)
Casings - $20
Seasoning - $18
Okay - that's about $80 for about 45 lb before smoking or about $1.80/lb plus all the time and effort. So I guess this proves again hunting and fishing is for recreation and not for the cost savings people like to think it is. (Let's not even consider adding the price of grinder, sausage stuffer, guns, ATV, special hunting clothes and equipment, etc.)
Yeah, I agree. The seasoning, fat, and casings make the homemade sausage sort of pricey. That's not even counting the day of labor that it takes. I tell my friends that deer hunting is an expensive hobby but they just don't understand. Most people think you take a gun out and get a deer, maybe a dollar or two for the bullet. Food plots, tractors, corn, feeders, it adds up! I figure it cost upwards of 1200.00 (or more) to process and get a deer in the freezer. Mounting a buck adds about another 500 or so to the mix. Makes one think carefully before pulling the trigger.
I go for lobster every summer in the Keys. Some years buying them at the store really makes them look cheap! Of course, it's not the venison or lobster (well, it helps), it's the fun that counts and makes it worthwhile!
I'm can relate to running out of freezer space. I was told upon leaving for my last hunting adventure not to bring back anything.....
WV Sawmiller
I don't know anything about making sausage, but I can easily agree with eating a bowl of butter pecan ice cream!!!!😁
Maybe this should be in the food section but because of Dan's comment I'll post it here.
Do you know how to make sausage out of your wild game? If you've never tried it you will appreciate it a lot more the next time you eat a jerky stick or some breakfast or summer sausage.
First you have to debone the meat off your kill. I save all the trimmings and small pieces of meat I get and either make sausage or can it. Many people use the shoulders and neck as it is a tougher, less preferred cut than the loins, tenderloin and hams which are usually cut into steaks. The hardest part is cutting out the sinew and fascia (silverskin) and fat. At least with deer the fat tends to stick to the roof of your mouth like eating a green persimmon. The generally accepted procedure is to add some pork or beef fat or some cheap burger or sausage. I usually use about one part pork to 3-4 parts deer. I get ground pork, pork stew, a Boston butt or if those are not available I use a pork loin which, amazingly, is cheaper than many other cuts.
The next step is to cut the meat into chunks your grinder will accept. A good electric grinder is worth its weight in gold here. A cheap manual grinder works but it is a lot of work. Make sure your blades are sharp and the meat is chilled nearly to freezing. Cold meat cuts much cleaner and easier as discussed previously. Your grinder normally comes with a coarse and a fine plate to cut larger or smaller pieces of meat. I find it is easier to grind using the coarse plate then regrind with the smaller plate. I like to grind the pork at the same time as the game to help mix it. In any case mix the game and pork or beef then add the seasonings. You can look on line for various recipes or simply buy pre-measured mixes. The premixed packages tell you how much meat it will season so weigh and add accordingly. I like to add the pork and deer and seasoning and mix then regrind with the smaller plate.
If you want bulk sausage at this stage you can package the sausage now or press into patties and bag. We like to make little meatballs with an ice cream scoop, put them in a vacuum bag, then press into patties in the bag then vacuum and seal.
If you want to case and smoke the sausage you need to buy and prep the cases. I buy hog cases packed in salt, empty them into a bowl of warm water to soften them then I unravel them, run water through them to remove and remaining salt and help unravel them, then store them in a bowl of cold water.
Many grinders have an attachment to stuff the cases. You put the meat in the grinder, slide a casing over the spout (basically a funnel), tie the end of the case then grind the meat again and it slides out into the casing. Be sure to leave enough room on the case to tie the end. Another option is to buy a stuffer. You put the meat in the hopper with the size spout to match the size sausages you want (Snack sticks, breakfast sausage or larger summer sausage). Crank the handle or push down on it depending on the style, and the meat comes out in the casing.
For summer sausage they need to go in a low temp oven for cooking till they reach 165* IIRC and are safe to eat. For smoked sausage put them in the smoker or smoke house if you have one and apply heat and smoke to dry out and season the meat till it is safe to store then package accordingly.
It is a lot of work but the results can be spectacular.
I'm tired out just reading all that.
I've always ground my venison without fillers of other meat or fat and it's just fine from burger for deer chili to burgers on the grill. But I understand some of the variables with taste and being to lean for some people
My dad used to make Polish sausage around Thanksgiving (Grandma's recipe) and we'd have it then and again at Christmas. It's been 50 years since I've had that :-\
Speaking of freezing meat. Years ago I had a big buck where he froze solid while hanging and I stood him on all fours just like he was standing there 😂
WB, that story reminds me of something pretty unrelated which I have not thought about in decades. Many years ago we were tent camping in February on 3 foot of snowpack, but we had a weird front come through and it rained on us most of the day, then a cold front came in behind it. We could not avoid getting wet and conditions were less than favorable all around. ;D I had been wearing my Dad's old 'brush pants' from the 50's which were very tough, but not very waterproof. By bedtime I didn't realize it, but I was entering my first ever bout of hypothermia (which is a fascinating experience really). I needed help getting my pants off in the tent before I could get in my bag. Well that cold front worked and the temp had dropped to about 5° and my wet pants froze solid. The guy that helped me get them off just stood them there in the corner. They were still standing when I woke the next morning, but I was so messed up I couldn't even walk without help (and yeah, we put those pants back on me). That was a bit scary, but no worries. Medical help was a mile away. It was quite the learning experience. 25 years later, when it happened again (August this time above the tree line) I knew it right away and we were 10 miles from any help, but I knew what it was and what to do and by the morning I was pretty much fine because my crew took great care of me, just a bit wobbly.
Anyway, I pictured your standing deer and thought of those dang old pants and off my brain went. Sorry.
While we're telling those. A friend and I made it to the takeout on the New river right at dusk, late in the season. I was young so underdressed and we had been wet for some time. Luckily there happened to be some emt's at the takeout, one look and they piled me into their truck. I was "fine". in my opinion. I was on the stoopid side of fine :D.
I met a young man who was studying to be a missionary at a local Bible College who was from Medicine Bow Wyoming. He spotted my door sign and they had a wood working business in Wyoming. He said they would kill a lot of deer every year and they would hang them in the big tree in the front yard. He said they would be frozen solid and it sometimes looked like Santa had lost all his reindeer there.
I made the mistake of hanging one on my skinning rack when it got down too cold and it was 4-5 days before he thawed enough for me to work him up. Now if the weather is going to be below freezing I hang them in my log barn and even leave some lights on there to keep it above freezing.
Now I butcher them faster and worst case I may leave the hams in the fridge in the barn if too cold or too warm.
Interesting stories guys! Especially Greenhorn! WOW!
Quote from: Don P on December 17, 2022, 10:02:12 PM..... I was on the stoopid side of fine :D.
That's the fascinating thing about hypothermia. Your brain starts to shut down, coordination and motor skills fall of quickly, and untreated, things go downhill quickly after that. Decision making skills are one of the first things to slip, I learned. I was not aware of the possibility of getting hit by it in August weather so that added a new dimension for me. We were backpacking and were above tree line in NM at around 9,000ft. or so. A hail storm opened up on us and we had no where to hide. It was scary event, barely had time to get rain gear on it was so fast. Temp dropped 20° in no time at all. When it was done, the trail was covered in a couple inches of hail, tough climbing and another 30 minutes walk to our campsite. As soon as we started setting up[ tents and I had trouble driving stakes, I knew what was going on and with 2 other EMT's on the crew we had a quick eval and started treatment. I sure don't remember a lot about that night though. :D ;D
Tom,
We went to Glacier National Park in late September for our daughter and SIL wedding and walked out on a long boardwalk to see a small lake and mountain goats. About the time we got to the far end a sleet storm came through and covered the boardwalk with ice. It was so slippery my wife and I got off the boardwalk and walked beside it most of the way for better traction. A young family friend was traveling with us and a little Asian girl met and asked to tag along as she was alone and felt safer with a family group. She needed lots of help keeping upright on the trip back and our young friend was loving it. I thought they might become more than passing friends but it was not to be. Cupid's arrow missed again.
Anyway, those weather conditions can change quickly and I bet most of us have been caught in different degrees of unpreparedness at one time or another. Glad you survived and lived to help warn us all about the dangers out there.
Did you know making stuffed sausage is pretty much a 2 person job? One person needs to run and feed the grinder or stuffer while the other one guides the sausages gently away from the machine as they fill or they will back up and put pressure on the sausage and burst out of the casing. (Yeah, I know YH would look back and study this operation and figure our a rolling belt line or something to move the sausages automatically to save that step. :D Actually I bet commercial operations have something like that but with a small hobby operation it is easier to just use 2 people. ;))
Sausages made with natural hog casings can be from 2' to 4' long depending on the length of the casing. The normal practice after the sausages are stuffed is to make shorter sections by squeezing the meat in the middle and twisting a knot in it or tying it with a string. I make mine about 6" long. Our local butcher (Who made the best smoked pork sausage I ever ate) where I grew up made his about 10-12 inches long.
You can smoke them on you home smoker to help dry them out and flavor them with that nice hickory, apple, mesquite, etc. wood flavor. I put foil on my old rusty homemade racks which actually slows and retards the process. More air flow is better. Hanging them in a smokehouse on wooden pegs with much better air flow would be a better way to completely smoke and help preserve them. Unless you have tested the meat with a meat thermometer and are sure they are safe to eat I caution you to be sure to cook them before eating them. I also freeze mine while properly smoked and dried to that nice wrinkly condition would allow you to store them in a smokehouse for months without extra precautions.
You are right about the two people requirement when stuffing. You sort of have to adjust your grinding speed and pulling speed to get them nice and uniform without breaking out. I like the links placed in a hot dog bun with all the trimmings, but they are just as good plain from the grill with a little mustard.
Think I'll try the smoked sausage next year, pretty much done for this year. I had some a friend gave me and it was pretty good. He also had some 'snack stix' made, boy, they were pricey from the processor. Looked like Slim Jims, I put them on the grill while waiting for other things to cook and everyone liked them. I suspect they are finely ground sausage in small casings, probably smoked up to correct meat temperature. Guess we are flirting with the "Food" section here.........
Did you know sausage and burger each have their percentage of fat specified? I weigh it out when doing a grind. I know some do their venison without adding anything, but venison is very lean and dry and adding beef fat helps it cook better and not stick to the pan. If I do a brisket I save the fat trimmings and grind with the venison. Brisket tends to have a lot of fat on it.
About sausage making, a farmer down the road from here (he's been gone for a while now) belonged to a civic organization that held pancake breakfasts. So he was talking to one of the other members and mentioned that he was going to make the sausage for the breakfast. The other guy suddenly had a look of bewilderment on his face and asked "make sausage??, how do make sausage"? He could not grasp that someone would/could do that. After all, sausage comes from the grocery store, right?
Troy,
Were the snack sticks cased or not? I have a jerky gun (looks like a caulking gun if you ask me :-\) that makes sticks like that but my sausage stuffer has a small tube about 3/8" diameter that apparently can be used to make them. I think you use the same casings just pull them faster to keep the size down as you mentioned above. It has another funnel about 3/4" diameter that makes what I consider normal sized breakfast sausage (About an inch or so). It also has a big funnel about 1.5" to make bigger summer sausage and such. I have only made the one size and this is only second deer I have used it on. Mine has a hopper or "Horn" that holds about 5 lbs of meat and a long handle you press down to push the meat out the funnel. I always have some that blows back so maybe it is not sealing properly.
I did not mention but once the casings are stuffed most people go along and twist or tie them into shorter lengths. My old local butcher used to make his about 10-12 inches long. I make mine about 6" long. He also said people expected hickory smoke so that is what he used but he swore red oak made a better flavor so I may try that some time. I have a school bus stop/shed full of bags of hickory chunks I cut on my RAS and bagged and tried to sell with no luck yet so I have been using them. As sure as I use them up someone will be calling wanting a truck load. I just cut the outer slabs into small pieces and bagged them in feed sacks.
I don't know how they estimate the fat to lean in burger and sausage. I guess they weigh the lean meat then add fat. It used to be the local butchers would save beef and pork fat for hunters to use. The last I checked you could buy fillet mignon about as cheap as their beef or pork fat. I just use the cheapest, fattest cuts of pork I can find and mix about 4:1 but should use more fat I am sur.
KEC,
It is funny how people don't understand where their food comes from. I guess that is the same with their lumber, electricity and gas. ::) Its a sad state of affairs.
The snack sticks were cased, I figured he found small casings somewhere, maybe not natural casings. I tried the Jerkey Shooter couple of times but never was happy with what I did . I friend of mine in Georgia makes some really good Jerkey Shooter sticks but I could not figure what I was doing differently. I use the sausage stuffers on the end of the grinder, have 3 sizes like you talked about.
I weigh the lean and the fat to get close proportions.
When smoking, I use a lot of cherry since I have a lot of limbs and small stuff I can chunk up. I tried oak a couple times and it was tangy!
Hypothermia can sneak up on one fast during a quick weather change from normal to damp and cooler temperatures.
When I was with the USFS on the Monongahela NF, Gauley Ranger District in West Virginia, we would be called out often for rescues of backpackers in the higher elevations of the Cranberry Back Country who weren't prepared for the quick weather changes and encountered hypothermia.
Some were so quickly overtaken that they had to be carried out of the Mountains. Fortunately, they were reached in time.
Troy,
The second hand Oster grinder I bought has the different size funnels too. I was tempted to try it but the hopper is so small I think it would take forever. I can load the hopper on my Weston stuffer and fill a 4' case without having to refill it.
My stuffer has the long handle. Another type has a screw press sort of like an old fashioned cheese or apple cider press you crank down. The ones I have seen have a much bigger hopper and look like they should be much easier to use.
Ron,
Sounds like you were just up the road from me. The famous bridge there is about 45 miles from my house and is a normal day trip when we have visitors then we take them to Babcock State Park and the old mill there.
I can remember when I was in the USMC we had a troop got a bad case of hypothermia on a fairly warm summer day when he got wet and his squad were all riding back to the barracks in the back of an open truck. The wet clothes and wind were enough to chill him quickly and seriously.
Did you know there appears to be a shortage of replacement slingshot bands for most common wrist rocket and regular slingshots? You know - the ones that use the cheap rubber surgical tubing. The Daisy people seem to be the most common supplier in our area.
(Maybe this is a temporary or regional problem and not national yet. I don't want to start a run on slingshot bands like the big TP shortages. :D)
I keep a slingshot in each of my shooting houses to shoo away the doves (Sometimes permanently), coons and even bears and a chipmunk chewed the pouch in two on one. I have been checking for a replacement for several weeks and could not find them at the normal places they were always available including WalMart, TSC, Rural King, Dunhams (A large local sporting hoods chain), and several local shops. Finally today I found 3 of them at a Dicks Sporting goods store and I bought 2 of them.
Of course when I went to check out the bill was $12.70. I gave the clerk a $20 then 3- $1 bills and he said "That's okay - the 20 will cover it." I told him "Yeah but I bet I get $10 & 30 cents back instead of a pocket full of 1's". Its a shame the math skills our young folks don't have these days. ::)
My daughter (17 years old) works part time at a clothing store evenings and weekends, after working there about 6 months they gave her a title of co-assistant manager and a key so she could open and close the store which I thought was a bit premature but the other day one of her similar aged coworkers was at the cash and had to run to the back to ask my daughter how to give back 15¢ change. :o
Now I know why they gave her the key.
I once went in an auto parts shop, gave the cashier the odd change to round it up to getting a few whole dollars as change. The manager was called, and by the time they figured it out, they were going to give me back 23.00 more than the part cost. Took me about 10 minutes to explain all I needed was about 3.00.
As a career I was a high school teacher, Industrial Arts. These kids nowadays are taught all kinds of useless math. They want to use a calculator on my exam, sure buddy, cause I know with that calculator you ain't got a chance. Ask any high schooler today, what is 3/5 of a dollar? Grab a drink and get ready.......... :D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 19, 2022, 05:53:13 PMDid you know there appears to be a shortage of replacement slingshot bands for most common wrist rocket and regular slingshots?
Aren't those just plain pieces of surgical tubing?
I got a roll of that! 8)
Troy,
Yes and no. The band comes with 2 pieces of rubber tubing about 8" long and a leather pouch about an inch wide and 3" long. The trick is the pouch has a hole cut in each end and they cut part way through the rubber tube near the end and push the tube through that hole then pull the rest of the tube through that cut with each side. They used to make them with a split plastic peg that went through. When you went to replace the rubber you spit in the end and slid one end over the plastic peg and the other over the metal tip of the slingshot. The wet end on the peg and prong created a vacuum that held it in place when stretched. You still do that with the type band sold now only on the slingshot end. The problem is connecting it to the pouch. I have not tried making the partial cut and inverting the tube through itself on the pouch end but should try it with one my old broken bands. The problem, until this chipmunk event, was the rubber try rots and breaks. Often it breaks at the tip of the slingshot prong and if so you can cut the other end and shorten the sling and keep using it.
We used to use inner tube rubber but it does not have enough elasticity. It is not live rubber like the old red rubber or the type currently used in the hospitals. When I was in Africa red rubber strips about 3/8" wide X 1/4" thick was commonly sold in every little street kiosk you saw and the kids used it with a forked stick to make an old Dennis the Menace style slingshot (like lots of us did).
Doc,
The tubing you have is no doubt much better than the yellow "stuff" sold by Daisy but then again, Daisy would never sell replacements is they used better materials.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/7ACEB51D-DECE-491B-A421-E1C1B9EE00F0.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1671501622)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/BA315644-ADF9-496B-BDDF-45705BD192DE.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1671501632)
I still have about 30 to 40 feet in the roll. used it to make a big slingshot for water balloons with a funnel. yes I had a little fun in a previous life. :snowball: :)
Howard, I have not launched a projectile from a slingshot in a long time, but I was thinking (Pop used to tell me that "every time you think, the other team scores") that if you could find the appropriately sized crimps for the tubing, that that (Tom) may work better than trying to tie it.
There is a tool used to turn larger bulls into stags/steers called a calicrate bander that uses surgical tubing and crimps. I've used it to repair dozens of rectal prolapses on show hogs. The crimps hold the tubing and do not slip. Callicrate Bander Kit (circlecsupply.com) (https://www.circlecsupply.com/callicrate-bander-kit.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiA14WdBhD8ARIsANao07g3YTfMnv2nU6t41p915ozr2UIUdTMhiFbSKRCGTZfYjDWglKPLO-oaAhIVEALw_wcB)
Back when I was a boy and dinosaurs roamed the earth and smelled of molten sulfur, my granddaddy used to help keep me well-supplied in homemade slingshots. The first wrist rocket slingshot he got with steel shot put us at the top of the heap in the neighborhood arms race. They were so much more powerful than the homemade ones from wood and innertubes.
Anyway, sometime while in elementary school, we started making small slingshots out of wire clothes hangers, a small piece of leather and the long, relatively thick rubber bands my daddy used to hold file folders together with. With a pocketful of BB's and these, a lot of mischief could be created at the schoolhouse or anywhere else a 10-year-old would find himself.
Cavey,
I checked online last night and I can buy several years supply of replacement bands for what I paid for the 2 yesterday so when those are used up that will be my source in the future. I could probably take regular tubing like Doc shows and just run the end through the pouch and fold it back and tie them tight with dental floss instead of crimping as you describe.
I remember the spitball days with a good medium duty rubber band looped between the thumb and index finger and shooting folded spitballs with it.
I used to have a slingshot with just one band made out of an old inner tube. The handle was a singe stick about an inch square like a cut off stack sticker. It worked pretty well. I think I broke the handle and would just fold the rubber over the top of my thumb and hold the end int he palm of my hand. I could launch a piece of gravel pretty well and accurately with that. The gravel would fly right over the end of my thumb till that day it didn't. ::) After that I found a new wooden handle!
You're closing in on the only use I could make of a slide rule nowadays :).
I guess eraser bag wars are gone too :D
Don,
I had to think about that eraser bag comment. We never used bags but eraser wars were common and it was common to come to class after recess and see the guy sitting next to you with a 3" X 6" yellow dust stain on the side of his head. I guess white boards ended those days. ::)
You'd think we never studied but through it all we did graduate with the skills to make change!
Okay, back on topic.
Did you know there is a big difference between a sling and a slingshot? Many young people apparently do not know that. A slingshot uses elastic (Usually rubber as discussed previously) with a forked handle to propel a relatively small ball or rock. A marble sized shot is about as effective as you can get. Glass marbles, ball bearings, 1/4" -3/8" steel or lead balls, gravel, etc are the normal ammo. Some people use .177 diameter BBs but I was never successful with them as they lacked the weight or I did not pull back the bands far enough.
A sling, sometimes called a rock sling or shepherd's sling, is an ancient weapon used for hunting, protecting the flocks from predators and for warfare. It is a simple pouch, apparently about 3" wide X 6" long, with a cord tied on each end. The length of the two cords can be about the width of your outspread arms or as short as about 2' on a side. The sling is used to hurl larger rocks or lead balls for warfare. I never understood how they worked till the wee hours of this morning when I could not sleep and looked them up. Apparently you tie a loop in one end and slide it over your index or second finger (I saw examples of both) and on the other end you tie a simple knot that you pinch tight between your thumb and index finger.
A golf ball sized rock seems to be about the normal size used. You place the rock in the pouch and swing the loaded sling around to get some momentum (and I saw several variations to do that) then you throw like throwing a baseball and release at the appropriate point. The sling opens up with the free end flying away you from while the stationary end with the loop over your finger keeps it in place. The sling basically serves as an extension of your arm and allows you to throw the projectile further just like an atlatl allows you to throw a spear/dart much further.
Apparently the longer the cords on the sling, the greater distance you get but you sacrifice accuracy. The shorter cords are more accurate but you sacrifice distance/power.
Apparently slings are still commonly used in Israel and the mideast to protect the flocks from wolves and jackals and such.
I remember a sermon in church one time where the preacher talked about David and Goliath and read where David went and collected 5 smooth stones before he went to battle Goliath. It turns out David was not worried about his accuracy and ability. Goliath had 4 brothers and David came prepared for them to enter the fray too!
Anyway I am about ready to find some paracord and make me a sling and try it even at my advanced age. With all the rocks we have here in WV I will never run short of ammo. I can throw them south to Don and he can send them further south to Patrick and Ted and the other NC members. :D
One note of caution - if you watch the old Mountain Men episodes on TV and you see the ones where Eustice Conway was always worried about making payments to the tax man - IIRC it was not property taxes he was battling. He was showing a group of tourists at his Turtle Island workshops how a sling worked and a stone flew loose and hit a lady in the eye and put it out and he lost the law suit and the State put a lien on his place till it was paid. At least that is the gist of the way I read about it. So if you see me practicing with a sling wear your safety glasses and hard hat.
EDIT/Add on:
BTW - if you have any experience using a sling please reply even if it is to 'fess up to broken windows or such. ;)
Hmm, stretching it a bit. This is just an evolution. The arm get's longer and stronger but it's just a sling.
This is a trebuchet.
bigtreb - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHohp_8z94k)
One string of the sling is tied to the throwing arm the other is a loop slipped over a bent nail. The release point is tuned by bending the hook angle of the nail, that determines where in the arc the loop slips off the nail and releases the projectile from the pocket.
The last time we drug this out and got it working the sling was rotted but an old pocketbook and some parachord and we got it dialed in to throw those little watermelons... as skeet ;D.
Yeah, that is stretching it a bit. ::) :-\ :D
Did you know you can make your own ammo for a sling using a wet clay and a mold? I spotted one trick on a website where a guy had a hemisphere shaped cup about 2" in diameter. He could fill and empty it twice with wet clay and press the two pieces together and let them air dry or even better kiln dry them like making small round bricks. I am assuming in medieval times these were made and stockpiled for ammo for defense or offensive purposes.
I guess if you had a bigger 2 sided mold like used for casting bullets or lead fish fishing weights you could really turn out a lot of them quickly and I assume that is the technique they used in the past.
Okay, since nobody but Don P even wants to comment about slings (and I am not sure he did not just return from a recreational weekend trip to Colorado ::)) I will move on to something new and see if we can generate some interest:
Did you know choke sizes on shotguns indicate the degree of constriction of the bore? As I understand the choke is applied to the end of the barrel. The more constriction the more the shot holds together after it leaves the barrel of the shotgun. So if you know the type game you are hunting and normal shot ranges you would buy or set the choke for that range. The most common choke sizes I always heard of were Full, Modified, Improved Cylinder and Cylinder (Open bore - no constriction).
While reading about them I also found several others and that Europe has even different ones. I came across Trap, Extra full, Improved Modified, etc.
Anyway a full choke has tighter constriction and would hold the shot pattern together for longer distances and is preferred for hunting game like turkeys, doves, and ducks. It is not ideal for buckshot or slugs and may even distort a solid slug and make it fly off center and slugs could even damage the choke.
Modified holds the shot together less but is probably a good all around choice if you are shooting small game at various ranges. It will accept slugs but will not give the best performance with them.
Improved cylinder is more open and used for game like quail where the shots a closer and you need a wider shot pattern up close. It works well with slugs and buckshot.
Skeet or Trap is the next with a wide shot patten for killing tasteless clay disks.
Cylinder is no constriction and shoots a very open pattern and is preferred for slugs and buckshot.
I know it was common on side by side double barrel shotguns to have 2 chokes so the hunter could select which barrel to use for different ranges. Some Old timers used to keep a buckshot load in the left barrel and small small shot in the right and shoot small with the small shot and be ready for a deer if one jumped up. (That was fine till they'd forget and shoot a rabbit 10' away with the wrong barrel and demolish him with a load of double ought buckshot).
Many shotguns now have adjustable chokes that can be screwed into the end of the barrel to change to different choke sizes. My first shotgun was an 870 Remington 20 gauge pump and a ventilated rib and a Poly choke on the end. I could just rotate the Poly choke to change the choke sizes on the fly.
(I lost that barrel out the window of a Chevy II in a canal in Dixie County Fla on Christmas Day when we had a blowout and sunk the car with us in it but that is another story).
A buddy of mine said with steel shot you need to use an open choke to prevent damage to the barrel but several articles I read indicated that is not the case. I have not used steel shot so I cannot verify one way or another.
well tell about "losing the barrel".
That was a few years ago. As I was towing that to the field the news on the truck radio that day was about a mexican drug bust. They were using a catapult to throw bags over the border. I'm thinking, "This looks bad!" about then I passed a deputy :D. Look closer, that thing is just a sling flinger. I guess it would be the end of that line of development.
Shot always brings this to mind since it is in the neighborhood.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/shottower.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1671725896)
OK. We were visiting my grandparents and had catfish lines out in the Suwannee River but I was going squirrel hunting up in Old Town Hammock. I went to load the tube magazine on my shotgun and did not push the shell far enough in and it slipped back behind the loading gate. We could not figure how to get it out and removed the barrel but still could not access the shell. I also could not get the barrel back on so I had the gun on the back shelf of the car. We dropped my younger brother off in the woods and I went with Dad and older brother to run the catfish lines. We caught a good mess of catfish and loaded them in the trunk of the car. We started home and were driving down a typical limestone rock road with a canal on the right. My older brother was about 15 and had his learners permit and was driving. He evidently had a blowout on the front right tire and the car swerved hard to the right into the canal which was about 8' deep. My shotgun barrel went out the open right passenger window - it was a warm day even for Christmas. The car was floating and when it got close to the road side bank I crawled out, grabbed my gun and a shot sack full of shells then said to myself - Naah, they're plastic (which was a fairly new improvement back then when most shells were paper) and threw them back in the floor.
The car floated back out in the middle and my brother tried to open the driver's door but more water rushed in so he and Dad crawled over into the back seat. They finally opened the left rear door and water was rushing in and my brother got out. As Dad got out the car had sunk till his nose was just above the water level. The car sunk nose down with only the trunk floating. A pocket of air trapped there kept it above water. They went back to the fish camp we had just left and called around and found someone with a log skidder who came and pulled it out. Dad drained and replaced the oil and the car cranked. He took it to his first cousin's garage and changed the oil again.
They got in Grandpa's car and went back to Old Town Hammock to look for my younger brother. I remember my grandmother called someone and told them we had run the car off in the lake and Dad, my brother and I had gotten out okay now were were going to look for my younger brother. I am sure whoever she was talking too were convinced he was drowned back at the canal.
We got the car running but it had the old 4 on the tree shifter and we could either get it in Reverse and 2nd or 1st & 3rd so we opted for the 1st and third and skipped second and made sure to park where we could circle out. We had a 300 mile trip home in it. When we got home Dad sold it as he figured there were plenty of problems ahead.
On the shotgun I learned it was a simple task to free the shell. You just pop 2 pins on the trigger assembly and pull it out and the shell fell free. Actually we could have removed plug and magazine spring and slid the shell out but at 12 y/o I did not know that.
We went back and looked for the barrel with a rake and extended handle but no luck. I really needed one of those big magnets. Dad bought me a 28" modified barrel for my gun which I still have to this day but I sure miss that polychoke with the vent rib.
BTW - the catfish in the trunk were in good shape.
Don,
I think I remember reading about the drug runners throwing the drugs over the wall or river or such with their catapult. I don't remember how they stopped them.
I think I have passed the sign to that park above on I-77 as we go south and back to Charlotte. Maybe we will have to swing by and check it out. You need to check out Wolf Creek Indian Village at Exit 58 behind the Loves truck stop some time. It is well marked and run by the county.
BTW - in Africa the locals called their slingshots Catapults. My wife's redneck uncle in north Ala used to call his a "Flip".
I've heard the forked stick slingshot called a flip a time or two but can't recall where.
Yup, that's the same shot tower. Take some time and wander around to the iron furnace, Foster Falls on the river and the childrens home, all down there near the tower.
I stopped at Wolf Creek years ago when it was just starting out, i need to go again. When they were building 77, right in there was an old burial ground.
WV I'm surprised you guys didn't just harness up those catfish to pull the car to shore. :D
Hilltop,
They were Fla catfish, not WV catfish. :D
Don,
I don't know about a burial ground but there were several graves found at the old village site. It was a palisaded village and they mapped it out and reconstructed it at the current site.
We have been to it many times and learn something new every time. Last time I asked about DNA testing of the bones they recovered because they don't know which tribe was there. They said if they do the DNA test and can identify the tribe the county could have to turn over the site to the tribe and the county would lose it.
Wisconsin also has a shot tower.
History | Tower Hill State Park | Wisconsin DNR (https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/parks/towerhill/history)
Dang, I've been within a mile of that and never knew it was around the corner. I've heard the hot lead has to fall for 3 seconds.
Howard, I can't recall us ever giving land back even when we knew good and darn well who owned it :D.
I've heard that was probably Cherokee or Shawnee and some say the Shawnee come from the oldest people. The survey the village is based on was the one done in 1970 when they built the road. I'm pretty sure our old loader is a stranded relic from that period :D
*Others say we all come from the oldest people, but what do i know :)
They found the village while widening I-77 then called in the archeologists who mapped it out exactly where every hut, cairn, grave, and perimeter pole was located then went and reconstructed it about 1/4 mile or so away. Some of the graves were found inside the village and some outside including one canine. They speculate the graves outside may have been enemy warriors. They indicated on each reconstructed grave it it was an adult male, juvenile female. etc and the position and direction it was found. From the size of the huts they can speculate if it was a family hut or a community building. They don't know if the huts were covered with bark or skins or what was used.
After the mapping the roadwork on I-77 resumed and destroyed the original site.
In each hut they have a display. One will be about pottery making, another about basket making, another about the foods and plants grown and used, another would have animal skins. one for weapons, fire starting etc. It is entertaining for the kids and interesting/educational for the adults.
I don't want to get off track or make this political but returning sites like this are falling under new rules than they used to do. ::) Anyway the site is well worth a visit if you have a couple hours and the weather is decent.
I don't know that DNA testing could identify a specific tribe anyways. A tribe is a social construct that has genetic implications, but Native tribes very freely captured women and children from other tribes to replace ones they had lost themselves. So there was a pretty constant flow of genes between any that were in close proximity to each other.
What DNA testing would show is a relationship to any living descendants. But it might also show the descendants aren't the current local tribe or some other "inconvenient" fact. Like you say there was the mingling of related tribes and home territories weren't 100% fixed either. So maybe it's a potential can-o-worms that no one is really that keen to open. ???
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 22, 2022, 09:53:47 AMSkeet or Trap is the next with a wide shot patten for killing tasteless clay disks.
Not to be picky, but skeet and trap are two different games. Different guns, different chokes. Skeet is shot with an open choke as the birds are close up. Skeet barrels are in the 28" range. Think shorter barrel to swing fast, wide pattern, smaller shot size.
Trap entails a bird thrown basically away from the shooter and is going away, albeit at slight left/right, up/down angles. Trap guns typically have around 32" barrels and full chokes to 'reach out there'. They don't need to swing as fast as a skeet gun.
Either game uses 'clay pigeons' and they do require special cooking techniques.
Troy,
I shot skeet a time or two while I was in the USMC and related it more to dove shooting and it was as you described passing from left to right. I saw the trap house at the same range but there was nobody to operate it when we were there. I was under the impression it was more like shooting at a covey of quail rising in front of you and would have thought shorter barrels and more open chokes. From your description it sounds like shooters shoot them at longer ranges than I thought. Maybe it is more like shooting pheasant which would be at longer ranges and heavier shot.
I went back and checked my sources and mispoke when I listed "Trap" as the charts I just looked up only showed Skeet as slightly more constricted than cylinder and more open than improved cylinder. There is not an actual choke size listed as Trap that I could find.
What I have not checked would be how the barrel length affects the shot pattern so if you wingshooters can chime in this is a good time.
My understanding is the longer the barrel the more the shot holds together. I don't think it has any overall effect on the actual range of the shot. If that is correct how would a 26" barrel with a full choke compare to a 30" barrel with a modified choke? It sounds like you'd be better served to buy a shorter barrel with an adjustable choke. Of course it is probably a little more accurate to sight down a longer barrel.
My old neighbor used to have a "Long Tom" 12 gauge which IIRC had a 36" barrel. He died and his widow traded it for a small pistol she figured she could use. I always hated I did not know she was interested as I'd love to have had it and she'd have wanted me to have it. I used to shoot squirrels and give to her husband and she'd make me chocolate cake in return. She also had a standing order for a channel catfish "that big" (about 2 lbs) so when I'd catch one that size I'd set it aside for them. I told her I fished specifically for that size but of course it was generally what hit the bait first.
Ian,
You pretty much nailed the DNA issue. I doubt anybody in America is 100% anything. (I tell everybody my DNA showed 10% Scotch/Irish, 30% Neanderthal, 35% Sasquatch, and 25% Unknown ::)).
Anyway with our current social issues it would open a big can of worms. They would not have to surrender the land as it is a reconstructed site anyway but I think it was the bones they said they would have to surrender if the DNA showed a clear origin. There are all kind of rights groups and such who would love to stir up hate and discontent and just looking for any excuse. Right now the bones are being treated with dignity and respect and held for scientific purposes.
Some of the graves/skeletons found outside the wall may have been captured slaves who did not rate burial inside the camp but had enough status and were respected enough to be buried instead of just dragged away and left in the elements.
Purdey shotguns are some of the most expensive in the world. Absolutely beautiful but very expensive. A new one starts in the six figures. I've seen them at a show.
My son now has my dad's old Parker 12 gauge double barrel. It has 30" barrels both full choke. It has Damascus/Twisted barrels and is not safe to shoot with modern powder but we used to use it mostly with low brass shells. We should have used old black powder shells with less breech pressure but did not have means to reload them and I don't know of any commercial source.
The stock was cracked and loose and he left it with an old German master gunsmith who rebuilt/replaced the stock but probably decreased the value in the process. It is a very high end gun.
Yes indeed those are nice!
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 23, 2022, 09:56:21 AMWhat I have not checked would be how the barrel length affects the shot pattern so if you wingshooters can chime in this is a good time. My understanding is the longer the barrel the more the shot holds together. I don't think it has any overall effect on the actual range of the shot. If that is correct how would a 26" barrel with a full choke compare to a 30" barrel with a modified choke? It sounds like you'd be better served to buy a shorter barrel with an adjustable choke. Of course it is probably a little more accurate to sight down a longer barrel.
The shorter barrels on the skeet guns allow the gun to swing faster as you get crossing birds on skeet. Short and long barrels pretty much shoot the same distance (until you get the 36" Goose guns), but the shorter ones swing faster and usually are designed for more open chokes. Dense patterns are necessary in trap: if the pattern opens up too much, the pellets will go all around the bird and not strike it. There will be slight velocity differences between short and long barrels, just as in rifles and pistols. One reason the Goose guns reach out there is the extra lenght gives the shot a little more velocity. In trap, all the birds are going away so the full choke keeps the shot pattern tighter/denser for the longer distance to the target. Trap I shoot is one bird per pull, but there are double trap games. My trap gun only has 1 tube, 32" full choke. A trap gun is designed to impact about 6-8" high if you shoot a paper target at 25 yards: that is because you are usually shooting at a rising bird as it comes out of the house. Skeet guns are designed to shoot point of impact as aimed, the birds are usually crossing sideways so you don't want your gun helping you shoot over them. Trap guns usually have an offset stock, it is 'canted' to the right usually. Look down the gun from the shoulder pad and you will see the offset. Skeet and field grade guns will be straight.
Most newer shotguns now have interchangeable choke 'tubes' which screws into the end of the barrel. There was at on time a "Polychoke system" that allowed you to turn the choke to tighten or loosen it. Also, barrels are 'ported' (Think holes drilled into the sides of the barrel at the end) to reduce the upward movement of the barrel for recoil, this aids the shooter in acquiring the second target quicker as the barrel does not rise as much.
WV, when you shot skeet you were probably at a range that had high/low skeet houses and in the middle of the field the trap house was located. Skeet involves singles and doubles, mostly sideways or crossing, trap is usually 1 bird at a time going 90 degrees from where the skeet birds would be traveling.
Troy,
I was at a remote USMC site on the north end of Okinawa Japan at an MWR site co-located at the rifle range and the operators were laymen who had been pulled from their regular duties (i.e the sick, lame, lazy and crazy) who had no idea what they were doing and we were no doubt using the same 870 Remington and Mossburg open cylinder pump shotguns with 26-28 inch barrels that were used on guard duty. (MWR probably got them from disposal once they were turned in as worn out/unusable or undependable for normal military use :D.) I'm not sure what the shot size we were using - probably #8 and when we ran out of that it was 00 buckshot. :D I promise you it was not the skeet and trap shooting you are used to or describing. ;)
As I mentioned above I had the Polychoke you described on the 20 gauge 870 barrel I lost on Christmas Day 1965. It seemed to be a much easier system to use than the tubes you also mention.
we had a hospital skeet club and would play "knock out" at the end of the eve. it was getting dusk, and I pulled out my 10-gage browning pump. everyone else on 3 areas stopped shooting because they wanted to watch the 4 feet of flame come out the barrel. fudd-smiley
Doc, did that 10 Ga actually give you advantage? I shoot a very light load, as do most experienced trap shooters. 7/8 oz at 1140 fps works fine for normal shooting. We used to play 'Chips' after normal shooting, then I would go to 1 1/8 oz, little faster also. As I age, I get more recoil sensitive.
It is heavy and long. one doc I recruited from my residency from the city, could not hand it back to me fast enough and said I will never shoor that again. It was meant to be a joke, and if I was able to be the third shot, that was the plan. It got too dark to play "knock out" as we were next in line, so we were down the line warming up and everyone want to shoot big bertha". It got everyone's attention. I would shoot half a box of shells so I could adjust my pull into the shoulder so it would be more comfortable to shoot. :rifle:
Sounds like that was one of those Goose Guns. Had a friend that bought one of those 3" high powered Turkey shotguns. After a couple of shots he asked if I wanted to buy it. Nope, thanks....
Sounds like your 'knock out' game is what we called 'Oakley'. Three shooters. First misses, second tries. Second misses, third can shoot. If successful, first two are 'knocked out'. Can't shoot at chipped bird or you are out.
Did you know that not all lead shotgun pellets are created equal? Standard pellets are 'soft' lead. They can deform as they pass thru the choke in the barrel and that creates 'flyers' that do not maintain pattern density. Magnum Lead Shot is shot that is made harder so as to resist the deforming when being squeezed in the barrel. There are numerous metals used in shotgun pellets nowadays. Steel shot is required in many waterfowl hunting areas. Steel and lead shot have their respective choke tubes also. Game wardens in those areas carry a magnet.
Did you ever go to an old fashioned turkey shoot? I have not been to one in many years. The ones I attended were more luck than skill. Usually they were fund raisers for various local civic groups. Sometimes an individual would put one on. The ones I remember typically had 10 targets set up at something like 35-40 yards. Each target had about a 6" square with a simple X on it. The organization would sell chances and each shooter would be given a designated target to shoot at. They generally provided the shells to be used and they were usually #8 dove loads. The shooter would pay something like a $5 fee and shot against 9 others so you had a 1:10 chance to win and the organization collected $50 for every turkey "shot". If it was an individual he might have you shoot against as many people as would buy a ticket so your chances were greatly reduced. The shooter with a pellet closest to the X won the turkey. If it was a tie those 2 shot again till one of them won. With the organizations they normally gave the winner a certificate to take to the local grocery store to pick up a frozen turkey. With an individual he might have 5-6 frozen turkeys in a cooler and give the winner his on the spot. I never saw a live turkey at such an event. A smart shooter would use a 12 gauge or 10 gauge if he had one with a tight choke to increase his chances of putting a pellet at the X. I used a 20 gauge and was at a disadvantage because my shells usually had 3/4 or 7/8 ounce loads while the the 12 gauges shooters had 1 or 1-1/8 oz loads and many more pellets so had a much better chance of a pellet landing on the X.
I bever attended one where rifles were used. They were generally lots of fun and the money usually went to a worthwhile organization.
If they do turkey shoots differently where you are from please jump in and let us know the differences.
I've shot many turkey shoots. Trap guns do well, as long as you aim 6" or so below the center of the paper. Shells are provided so you can't load cheater rounds.
At my gun club, our turkey shoots would involve many games. Regular, closest pellet to center, most pellets in the 0 ring, hidden ring on back of paper (total luck), and we even did a rifle event. I managed to hit the small black dot using a Ruger .22, 25 yards, kept the target :)
Did you know the original turkey shoots of long ago involved a real turkey? At least that's what my grandpa told me. Seems you had to wait your turn for the turkey to stick his head up until you could shoot.
Troy,
I remember seeing the turkey shoot in the Sgt York movie where Alvin York, played by Gary Cooper, had to gobble to get the turkey to stick his head up so he cold shoot it, a trick he later used when capturing a battalion of German soldiers with a squad of men.
Did you know where the expression Catty Corner came from. we all know what it means. It came from the French word quatre for 4 corners or like 4 dots on a die. It was formed from the English misspelling of the French word. It was then Caddy corner, and now catty or cater or Kitty are more examples. you no longer should use the caddy spelling unless you have a golf person holding a bag of clubs in one of four corners in a room. so next time you find yourself in an intersection say at the French quarter you will remember this story! Merry Christmas from the ED in Hutchinson, Ks.
So you are saying that no cats were killed nor injured in this tail of wit??
Wait, what about Cattywampus??
Are you telling me that cattywampus is actually kittywampus? The original term is catawampus and it means "askew" or "off-center." While both cater-corner and catawampus use the obscure definition of cater for "diagonal," they're slightly different. A lamp positioned cater-corner to a table looks neat and purposeful, while a lamp positioned catawampus to a table looks sloppy and haphazard.
Anyone that has ever had cats know exactly what they will do in a corner !!! :o
Well, if we are going to give out French lessons when you hear someone say something is "so Gauche" or untidy or unacceptable or such remember Gauche is French for Left. Left handed people appear clumsy at times simply because most people are right handed and build and situate something for right handed people. Think of a door hung for a right handed person and when opened with the left hand you smack yourself in the face. Since Gauche is not right it is considered wrong. ::)
Doc, I know you are working so there is no "Christmas cheer' available in bottle form, and I know Howard doesn't drink, Lynn I'm not so sure about, but the preceding 3 posts remind me of 3 guys at a bar trying to one up the other guys story. Just sayin'. :D :D
Thanks for the giggle.
Quote from: Ianab on December 23, 2022, 01:03:07 AM
What DNA testing would show is a relationship to any living descendants. But it might also show the descendants aren't the current local tribe or some other "inconvenient" fact. Like you say there was the mingling of related tribes and home territories weren't 100% fixed either. So maybe it's a potential can-o-worms that no one is really that keen to open. ???
Ian, my understanding of genetics is by no means complete. I understand the basics of how genetic info is transferred, yet I still have many holes in my comprehension of the subject.
One thing that I think I read correctly, yet I don't completely understand- if you go back 4-5 generations, you can have ancestors that you have zero genetic information from. So in that, how would anyone prove ancestry when we are talking about DNA from over 1000 years ago? I mean, if you dug up bones from an early Native American burial, one of the first ones across the Bering Strait, I may well have some matching DNA since I am one quarter Native. But wouldn't I be so far removed so as to obscure my exact relationship, other than that I am descended from them in some form? In that, it would be kind of tough to establish that I am from the same "tribe" I would think.
It would be different if the burial sites were recent enough that it could be established that a current tribe has members that are great great great grandchildren or something along those lines.
On another note, I often wonder when with science, the activity crosses from archaeology/anthropology to grave robbing, or vice versa. Personally, I don't think anyone's bones should end up in a museum to be used by science, just because they are old enough there is no one left to complain about it.
Quote from: Old Greenhorn on December 24, 2022, 10:41:02 PMbut the preceding 3 posts remind me of 3 guys at a bar
Since I did not understand any of those last few post I have to agree. My drink was caddy corner so I'll go retrieve it......
Tom,
Merry Christmas to you. Three guys in a bar? Really? I am sure this is just a case of one member making a post which triggers another FFs memory of a similar or sometimes totally unrelated incident and they post for others to share. What if your post reminds me of Christmas Dinner in Norway with smoked lamb chops, rutabagas and lutefish? Dont you think that would be appropriate to post? :D
Troy,
That was a gauche suggestion. ;)
How about we switch gears here. It seems to me that when the subject of slingshots and different launchers came up, we should have also talked about the air cannons used in pumpkin chunkin contests. I went to an event where they shot pumpkins out into the St. Lawrence River and it is nothing short of amazing how far those pumpkins go. Some of the compressed air cannons were very, very impressive. They actually closed off boat traffic on a section of the river lest someone fall victim to a pumpkin cannonball.
KEC,
I knew they had "punkin chunkin" events that used cannons and some used huge slingshots but I have never been to one. My son has made a few potato guns with PVC pipe and fittings and some some kind of sparking system for ignition. I think he'd spray a shot of brake fluid cleaner or some other highly flammable aerosol in there and hit the switch to light it and he could send a potato or similar sized object a pretty impressive distance.
Potato Launcher DIY : Super Dangerous !!! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z6amELU0LY)
Did you know a manta ray can jump completely out of the water and turn summersaults in the air? While on a small boat tour to the Galapagos Islands one afternoon right at sunset I saw a large manta ray that must have weighed several hundred pounds jump 5-10 feet high out of the water and turned a complete flip in the air. Our guy for the tour told me they would sometimes do that to shed themselves of parasites. From his description the parasites he was talking about seemed to be remoras or some other similar fish.
I once saw a group of rays jump and belly flop. Sounded like a shotgun when they landed. In the Keys in the summer, we often see rays jump. At night we are fortunate enough to see spotted eagle rays, they are really beautiful!
I was on a night dive in the Red Sea near Jeddah and my dive partner started flashing her light at me to let me know to look out for something. I turned around and a spotted eagle ray about 45" wide was swimming right at me and was about to hit me. I poked it in the mouth with my flashlight and pushed it away from me. I guess it could not see me. It was at least 10-12 feet long to the tip of its stinger. Fortunately it did not try to defend itself like with Steve Ervin.
Did you know that lobsters (and crabs) grow larger by molting? They literally withdraw the soft bodies from their shell. For a few hours they are rubbery and can barely move. This is when they are extremely vulnerable. Also where softshell crabs come from. Crabs are put in a shallow tank and are watched for molting. When they molt they are harvested for sandwiches.
I once had 8 lobsters in the livewell. Got back to the campsite and had 9. I recounted, yep, 9! Well, one of those shells looked exactly like a whole lobster but it was hollow. Had an opening on the bottom where the lobster climbed out. There was a 'softie' in the livewell, tasted fine!
Same thing with freshwater crawfish. "Softshells" are preferred fish bait around here. Some bait dealers keep regular hard shell crawfish in tanks and feed them oatmeal and when they molt they separate them and raise the price.
Aren't softshell crabs called "she Crabs"?
I've always heard them called peelers.
I think she crabs are females. In Florida you can harvest males or females. In Maryland/Delaware you can only harvest males. I crab along the St Johns in Florida. We put a large rectangular trap out with bait in it. Let it soak overnight.
I also crab with a friend in Maryland. Crabs there taste different than our river crabs. They use long trot lines or traps with triangular sides up there. They cannot use the traps we use in Florida.
I have read or heard the term Peelers used for softshell crawfish.
Here is a recipe I looked up for she crab soup:
She Crab Soup {South Carolina Crab Bisque} - What A Girl Eats (https://whatagirleats.com/she-crab-bisque/)
Here is another one for softshell crab sandwiches:
https://www.sizzlefish.com/blogs/soft-shell-crab/soft-shell-crab-sandwiches
(Funny how we always work our way back around to food here somehow :D)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 18, 2021, 09:09:00 PM
Tom,
You better go review your Starboard and port and make sure you know which is the bow and stern, just in case. ;D
I never saw one on the right (Starboard) side either. Mostly we used metal oarlocks with a screw clamp that could be tightened or loosened and moved to adjust to the most comfortable position. The ones I remember with built in notches were always on the left (port) side. We always sculled with our non-dominant hand leaving our dominant hand free to fish or shoot or whatever. When sculling in swift water or in a hurry such as when towing a skier or two we'd use both hands for the extra power required. ;) :D
Somebody used to market a little manual precursor to an electric trolling motor. You pumped it up and down and it turned a little 2 or 3 blade propeller. As I remember it swiveled in a bracket so you could turn the boat. Those of us who learned to scull with an oar never used them. We had a neighbor with a deformed hand with only a thumb and a finger or two who used one pretty effectively. I confess - I really prefer my foot controlled, bow mounted electric trolling motor as it leaves both hands free to fish or whatever.
This is an old electric trolling motor that I came by somewhere along the way. I gave it to my son-in-law as one of his Christmas gifts. He has several old tools and other items hanging up in his barn. They use their barn for a lot of get togethers.
Trolling motors have come a long way since the one pictured. I have a 36volt model that was given to me by a cousin. The motor is fine but the navigation component of it does not work. Some of the bigger ones are used by offshore fishermen now on boats 30' or longer. Anchors are becoming a thing of the past for a lot of bottom fishermen. The "spot lock" type motors can be controlled remotely and are linked to a GPS. Combined with a high-quality color graph and a captain that is good at "video game fishing", a lot of fish can be put on the deck that in the past would have been much more challenging.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/86930AB0-4898-40F6-8C9C-25E3D47BEA28.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1672109493)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/26729422-5220-4755-91FB-7971A4F406B2.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1672108653)
That old trolling motor is way cool! Grandpa used to have an old Minn kota, probably from the late 50's that had a bronze hammer tone painted motor at the top and a black rotary speed selector switch at the end of the red tiller. It looked like it was used very little, but may have been used a lot as Grandpa took very good care of his stuff, especially anything boating related. My uncle who was the first to have a lake house, absorbed most of the boating stuff when Grandpa passed and it was time to clean out the garage so I suspect he got it, but he's not too sentimental on random stuff occupying space that isn't being put to work on a regular basis. I suspect if he did have it, he doesn't any more. As much as I like cool old stuff that occupies space and isn't being regularly put to work, I'm not sure that's something I'd have room for as it wasn't very small and had a bit of mass to it.
That is a neat old trolling motor. Dad used to use a 2 hp Johnson or Evenrude outboard which was probably slower than many modern trolling motors. He also used a lot of 4 HP Johnsons. There were a poor design because they had a separate tank instead of the little tank on top of the motor but they did not have a forward and reverse so to back up you had to spin the motor around and the hose got tangled. The little 2 & 3 hp motors with the tank on top you spun around to back up but without the hose that was no problem.
He and I were fishing on the Escambia River in N. Fla one day and he ran out of gas and refilled from the can he carried with us. He spilled some when he filled it, which was normal, but when he pulled the starter cord the gas caught fire and was shooting 3' high out the top of the air vent in fill cap. I think the little copper fuel line had broken. He tried turning off the fuel shutoff on the side but had no luck. It burned for about 25 -30 minutes with him sitting on the front seat with me and both of us hoping it would not blow up. He finally took his shirt off and dipped it in the river and threw it over the motor and smothered the flames and we sculled back down to the landing a mile or so downstream.
Did you know a trolling motor mounted on the front of the boat generally works better than one on the rear? You can pull the boat easier and more accurately into tight spots than pushing it. Think of pulling a donut on a string vs pushing it with a pencil. (Yep, we're back to food again. ;))
Did you know that in Minnesota, some boats that are set up with tiller steer outboards are also set up for, "back trolling"? Back trolling, as the name implies, is trolling in reverse. But the boat needs set up with "wave wackers", which are plastic shields on the transom that keep waves from coming over the back.
Did you know that ash wood is considered to be a preferred firewood because it is naturally dry/retains minimal moisture and does not create a lot of smoke as it burns? It will even burn when green/fresh cut while most hardwoods will not.
It is straight grained and splits easily and makes some beautiful lumber for making furniture and such.
It seems it would not be very good wood for smoking and preserving meat and fish and such.
But Ash does leave a mound of ashes. ::)
Ironic, ain't it?! :D ;D
Yeah, I use a lot of dead ash but lately have been burning a bunch of maple and it does not seem to produce nearly as much ash.
Have to say I burned nothing but white ash firewood for at least 15 years, after burning nothing but red and white oak for 25 years. That was burning in my indoor boiler for hot water heating. This boiler did not have an ash pan so all ashes had to be removed by shovel. Did notice some more ash, but not a game changer.
The positive to burning ash wood was having live embers ready and available after a few stirs with a poker and then lay one or two pieces of ash firewood on them for a quick fire. Could do similar with the oak if there were at least 3 or more good drying seasons on the oak.
Main reason I didn't burn walnut was because of the build-up of ash. Still it would burn fine and just require poking with a poker to bring up the live embers.
I don't see the concern about ashes. I see them as a resource and spread them around to go back in the soil from whence they came. Some on the garden and some around my favored trees.
We have 2 ash species up here- green and black. Green ash is very low moisture, black ash is not. Black ash is similar in moisture content to red oak. Black ash grows exclusively in swamps and low lying areas. Green ash seems to grow wherever it dang well pleases, from in the swamp alongside black ash, to on top of red hills of iron ore mine tailings and everywhere in between.
My Dad used to use Black Ash for smoking Whitefish, and that turned out wonderful.
It sure doesn't last long if mistreated. I have a healthy pile of ash styrofoam :D
The locust in the same heap was drying while the ash was rotting.
I'm the same way, I've never paid attention to how much ash one or another wood makes. Maybe after I get an accurate count of the flowers on the wall :D. Plus, I'll burn about anything. I threw some spicebush on awhile ago, It made a few chunks that I quartered with the splitter. It made good dense firewood.
Did you know potash was made from the ashes of hardwood trees? It is mostly used for fertilizer but is also used in making soap and I think it is part of some glass making processes. Evidently the wood is burned, the ashes are leached with water and the water is boiled out/evaporated and the residue in the pot is potash. Potash is another name for Potassium.
I've got a little I made dripping water through ashes in a paint strainer down in the shop, just playing with the woodstove ashes. If I get enough I'll give it to my wife.
That lye is potassium hydroxide. The lye my wife buys to make soap is I believe sodium hydroxide. Some say the wood lye soap is softer. Dad says Grandma's was not :D. She used a wing feather to test her soap. If it came back as just a stump it probably needed more tallow. She would add fat to feed the lye till it did not harm a feather. It is at that point ready to mold but it is still chemically hot, it'll burn the fire out of you for at least 6 weeks till it finishes working the fat. You want the lye hot enough to clean you but you want most of it already tied up in other fat or it'll strip it all from you.
Someone blew the drains clean out of their joints with lye, it is powerful stuff.
Did you know Potash was used to make hominy (IIRC)? As I remember you used dry corn and soaked it in potash or I think Lye (Sodium hydroxide) was used to soften it and remove the husks. You had to rinse the lye several times to make it safe to eat. I assume you had to do the same thing with potash.
Don't get hominy and hominy grits mixed up. Hominy is large kernels of softened corn and grits are dried corn that is cooked in boiling salted water to soften before serving with a pat of butter or gravy but never with milk and sugar by a true southerner. ::)
This is one of those cases of, bless our hearts, we didn't know just how much we didn't know. It's why southerners starved on grits and cornbread. Pellagra is caused by a vitamin B deficiency, niacin. We can't get the niacin from corn without treating it with a caustic. calcium hydroxide, Mexicans call it Cal, we call it pickling lime.
That process is known as nixtamalization and it makes the niacin available to us. Nixtli-ashes. Where we grind corn dry they grind hominy wet to make masa, directly from the nixtamal process. When masa gets shipped here to the States they dehydrate it and you have masa harina. It makes an inferior tortilla to those who know. That's staff of life stuff, that is opportunity.
If you are worried about your Vit B levels, stir a spoon of Marmite into your grits. ;D
I've tried, I'm not sure which affliction is to be feared more.
Nowadays it would be difficult to be that far off, I'll enjoy my grits and cornbread sans marmite :D
Since it is December 31 I am reminded of our tradition when I was in Jeddah in Saudi Arabia on the Red Sea. We would do a night scuba dive and time it by entering a little before midnight so we would go under in one year and come up in the next. :D
Did you know gourds were/are often grown by remote tribes to make an assortment of household utensils? Large round gourds are cut in half to make bowls - some hold up to several gallons. Small gourds are often cut in half lengthways to make spoons. Large small neck gourds are used to make containers to carry liquids similar to a canteen. The top is cut off an small rocks are poured in and shaken vigorously to remove the soft pith lining and a stopper is made from wood or such. A net of local fiber is made to form a carrying case with a shoulder strap. In many parts of Africa these are called Calibashes.
In Haiti the local currency is the Gourde.
Did you know a group of whales or dolphins is called a Pod? Also did you know a killer whale is more of dolphin than a type of whale?
Did you know dolphins use a type of sonar to locate their prey and other objects in the water where it is too turbid and dark to see? They bounce sound ways off objects and can determine the exact distances to them. Bats use a similar systemin the air. I wonder if you could make a sound device with the same frequency in the water or air and make dolphins swim into the bottom or bats fly into telephone poles?
Sperm whales also use echolocation, they hunt so deep in the ocean there is no light. They are also so loud it's thought they actually stun their prey (sharks and squid) with the volume alone. They can emit sounds up to 230 db. Human eardrums burst around 150, and 200 db sound is probably fatal.
especially in water.. there is no compression in liquids to buffer anything.. pistol shrimp use sound to stun pray as well with a shock wave at 210 dB :o
But the energy will need to be focused at the prey to be most effective.
Did you know that some dogs that chase their prey will not bark when they are trailing? Where I grew up in the South it was common practice to hunt deer with dogs. If they had a dog that would not bark on trail they would sometimes put a bell on the dog's collar so they could hear him coming. The hunter typically did not have as much reaction time as with a barking dog but it was a way to compensate for a good tracking dog that would not bark. It was common with deer, fox and rabbit dogs and I have even heard of people doing that with squirrel dogs that would not bark on tree.
Hmm, sounds like rejects. A really well trained one only goes dark on posted land ;)
Well, these dogs had to learn to pad the clapper on the bell till they got to the the property line. :D
Did you know most hunting dogs were bred to hunt a specific game animal? Bird dogs were trained to track and point/hold or flush birds for the hunter. Hounds were trained to trail and sometimes tree/hold their prey at bay. Greyhounds and wolfhounds were trained to chase by sight and catch their prey.
That does not mean the dog can't be trained to hunt other prey. I have seen bird dogs that were used to point or chase deer or tree squirrels. I once watched a 6 lb chihuahua chase a nice 6 point buck across a chain link fence I was installing. The owner had brought several nig hounds along to train and while they were chasing one deer PeeWee/Pedro was after another on his own. :D I still wonder why a 150 lb deer would run from a 6 lb ankle biter.
Ya'll know the dog can't read!
Don't tell Sampson that. If he had fingers and a thumb to type like I do he'd even send you a nasty note telling you what he thinks of you for even saying something like that.
People don't give dogs enough credit. When I was a teenager I had an old hound who was so smart I could just show him what size possum I wanted based on the size of the skinning board. He'd go back in the woods behind the house and would not return till he had a possum that size. One day I came home from school and Old Blue was not there to meet me so I asked my mom "Mama, have you seen Blue?" She said "Yeah, he was here about noon when Miz Elsie came over to return my ironing board. He ran around looking at me and the ironing board and scratched his head and the last I saw he was shaking his head and headed for the woods." We never saw old Blue again. :(
Paul Ott was a very good friend of mine who was also a very talented musician, conservationist, outdoorsman, and radio and television host ...His Son Paul Jr. LINK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Ott_Carruth) played football for Alabama/Bear Bryant.
Paul Ott - Ole Blue - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njGcwH7bhHo)
RIP: Paul Ott Carruth.
Lynn,
Nice song. I sure get homesick hearing that hound barking in the background although my best squirrel dog was a small mixed breed with a much higher voice.
Makes me remember old Blue Sue a beautiful bluetick hound I had that I left in Albany Ga in January 1986 when I reported for duty in Okinawa while was in the USMC. When I left Sue started digging out and my wife could not control her so she gave her to Dad's best friend Lewis from their time in Korea in 1948 in the Army. Lewis had remarried and they had a little girl even later - like after 20 years and lived in Cordele Ga about 25-30 miles away.. Sue was a very good natured and gentle dog and made a great companion for the little girl who was a toddler at the time. I can still see old Blue Sue standing looking up the tall pine trees with her head thrown back and long ears dangling as she howled at a squirrel in the tree on base house at Turner Field Housing.
I will forgive Paul's son his poor choice of schools in this case. ;)
Do you know why dogs usually circle before lying down or going to poop? Some theories are they want to align themselves magnetically to the north and south. Other speculation is they want to take one last look around for any threat in the area and another is simply to "make a bed" by pressing the grass down flat so it will be more comfortable to sleep on.
And the dogs ain't talking to tell us why.
And, do you know why a male dog lifts his hind leg when he does number one, it's to disengage the rear end so he don't do number two.
Do you know why dogs, especially bird dogs and such, do not make good python hunting dogs for helping rid the Everglades of these invasive predators? I have seen a couple of outdoor shows where locals used some small dogs to help find these snakes but I am surprised their use is not more common. I'd think bird dogs that are trained to hunt and point out their prey would be a great fit. You don't want a dog that will attack the snake because the snakes can pretty readily kill them.
I know a lot of it is for TV watching the folks catching the pythons by hand but since they are going to kill them in the end anyway I never understood why try to bring them back alive? I'd be out there with a lightweight, short barreled .20 gauge with #8- #6 shot or large caliber pistol with a similar shot load.
I learned Jack Russell terriers were very popular in southern Africa because they found and actually killed many small snakes over there including some very deadly vipers and such. They were also popular with Professional Hunters to go find and hold at bay wounded leopards and such. The PFs with hounds do the same thing but they can expect to lose a dog or two while the JRTs are fast and agile enough to survive the encounter.
I wonder if you could train a pointer to look for something else, the one my friend had pointed birds as a pup, no training and never been hunting with another dog. I have seen a deer run away from it only 20 feet from him and the dog never even looked up or showed any interest, another time a rabbit ran across it's path right under it's chin the dog almost kicked it but he never payed any attention to the rabbit, just looking for birds.
I think that some of those snake hunters in Florida drive the roads and look for snakes that come out and lay in the warm road. Anybody know ?
On some of the shows they show them road hunting them like that at times especially in cooler weather.
We visited the everglades in March 10 years ago and did not see any pythons but we talked to lots of locals who had seen and caught/killed them. They had even started the annual hunts for them. A driver on one of the tours to an observation tower said there were lots of real greenhorns in the hunts. He said one guy would walk out into the Glades looking for snakes but would stop every few feet to click his car remote. He made sure he never got out of hearing of his parked car so he did not get lost. ::)
BTW - March was a perfect time for us to see and photograph the gators and birds because it was the dry season and all the critters were hanging out in the canals they had dug to get fill for the roadbed. You had to be careful every time you stepped out of your car or you'd step on a big gator.
Hilltop,
I am confident bird dogs can be trained to hunt other animals. While at Auburn my old wildlife professor, James Earl Kennamar of Wild Turkey foundation fame, used to have a bird dog he hunted quail with but it would act different if it smelled a deer. He used to hunt with a buckshot load in the chamber followed by 4 loads of birdshot and if the dog pointed a covey of qual he'd jerk the buckshot out then flush the birds. On one outing the dog was acting deery and jumped a nice 8 point buck that Dr. K killed on the spot.
I have seen other bird dogs used to point deer in gallberry thickets and such. We had one that used to chase deer. He did not bark much and usually was in sight of the deer but you better shoot fast because it would be running wide open.
I walked out of the library at AU one time and there was a big crowd watching an Irish Setter and a cat squirrel. The squirrel was running around on the lawn doing typical squirrelly things. The IS was locked up in a perfect point. Periodically when the squirrel was not looking it would creep forward ever so slowly then lock up again. Finally it got close enough it charged and it and the squirrel made a couple of circles around a tree and the squirrel escaped but left a mouthful of tail hairs in the IS mouth. I wish I'd had a video of it. Half the crowd were rooting for the dog and half for the squirrel but all were happy to watch and at the results.
I guess they are all different, the dog my friend had was a english setter.
The only Irish setters I have ever seen were doing about 30 mph. :D
Quote from: Hilltop366 on January 07, 2023, 02:39:27 PM
I wonder if you could train a pointer to look for something else, the one my friend had pointed birds as a pup, no training and never been hunting with another dog. I have seen a deer run away from it only 20 feet from him and the dog never even looked up or showed any interest, another time a rabbit ran across it's path right under it's chin the dog almost kicked it but he never payed any attention to the rabbit, just looking for birds.
If no steadiness training was done it had to be extraordinary genetics to have that laser focus!
To answer your question, some train bird dogs to hunt shed antlers too, however if it were mine I would want it focused on birds :D :D
Yeah but there is no closed season on pythons in the glades and you could make some money on the bounties, skins and meat.
Did you know sweetgum sap has been used as chewing gum? It has a sweet taste some people like.
Did you know it can also be found in Mongolia and evidently had some medicinal uses there. We were doing a tour around Ulaanbataar, the capital of Mongolia, and visited a local museum of sorts with a medicinal display and I spotted a sweetgum leaf on display. I could not read the uses but it was an unexpected find.
Did you know that coyotes will lock onto something and stand stock still much like a pointer dog. I've watched them do this while hunting meadow voles.
I think that is very common behavior in many predators including foxes, coyotes, wolves, mountain lions and most all African predators.
Have you ever watched a hawk, owl, or heron looking at prey and squat down like they are ready to pounce then stop and relax then repeat a few seconds later. Finally when the prey is in the right position the predator lunges.
From a sister thread, did you know an ostrich can kill a lion with its kick? They are very big birds with massive drumsticks that you don't want to mess around with.
One of the ag departments in my county had some emus. They, too, can be formidable adversaries. When they butchered the feathered foes, the process involved a livestock trailer, gloves, loppers, an ag teacher and a few high school students. If I recall correctly, emu was on the annual banquet menu that year. (I am not the one who orchestrated this ordeal, but I did hear about it from the one who did)
I don't recall if we ever got into an elephant discussion on this thread, but the retired Ringling Bros. and Barnum and Bailey Circus elephants live about 20 minutes from my house. I've been out there a few times with students. Feld Entertainment owns them. They are the same group that owns or at least the last time I was there, owned the monster truck circuit. The elephants have 10' high fenced enclosures. Sometimes they will throw their monster truck tires (toys) over the fences.
I did not know elephants would throw truck tires around but I could see that happening. I used to love to watch them at waterholes in Africa blowing bubbles under water. They would wash out 3' deep holes in the sand doing so.
My favorite elephant story is:
M'jobo was a young Masai herder tending his father's cattle in Kenya when he saw a herd of elephants walk past in the distance. An hour later he saw a young bull elephant limping badly on the trail of the other elephants. He was close by so he walked over and spotted the elephant had a large acacia thorn in the pad of his front foot. He knew it was dangerous but he had always loved elephants so he walked closer talking quietly as he did. The elephant stopped but did not seem threatening so M'jobo eased over, slowly lifted the elephant's food and with his belt knife he eased the thorn out of the elephant's foot. The young elephant slowly lowered his foot and took a few tentative steps and turned around and reached out with his trunk and gently smelled and felt of him from head to foot while M'jobo stood motionless. The elephant turned and walked along the trail of the the other elephants with no sign of pain from the sore foot. M'jobo returned to his duties proud of himself for his successful treatment of the elephant.
Several years later M'jobo was offered the chance to go to America and study as an international exchange student. He completed high school and attended college in Chicago where he met, fell in love with and married a beautiful American lady. They stayed in the Chicago area and had 3 wonderful children.
Approximately 15 years after M'jobo had rescued the elephant he was visiting the Chicago zoo with his children. As they approached the elephant pen the wind shifted and blew from him to the elephants and an adult bull elephant suddenly raised his trunk and smelled the air, tumpeted loudly and ran to the fence next to where M'jobo and his children were standing. M'jobo could not believe it. Could this be the same elephant he had rescued so long ago? It certainly looked like him and the sign said he was newly arrived from central Kenya where he had come from. M'jobo walked over and climbed the fence and walked over to the elephant which gently reached out his trunk and touched his face and arms and smelled him all over. Suddenly the elephant grabbed M'jobo around the waist and picked him up and threw him to the ground and trampled him with his feet and gored him with his long tusks.
The general consensus is - it probably was not the same elephant.
Did you know the cassowary from Indonesia is considered the most dangerous bird to raise by people? They are a large bird nearly as big as an Emu with a bad temper and have been known to kill a number of people who tried to raise and handle them.
Did you know many species of mammals, birds and even fish will establish and guard specific territories? They do this to protect their food source, maintain breeding rights in the area or protect their young. They identify their territory by establishing scent signposts along the perimeter, singing along the perimeter, constantly circling the area and chasing away intruders, or even scratching trees and such to indicate their height/size.
And some fish can get quite feisty when defending their territory. If you snorkel into a Reef Triggerfish's space, back away.... They aren't a big fish, less than 12" long, but they have very powerful jaws and aren't scared of you.
Others are rather cute to watch. The local freshwater bullys are only a little 3" long thing. But the male stakes out a likely looking rock and entices a female to lay eggs. The male then cleans and defends the egg patch until they hatch. If he's got a good spot he can have several broods on the go at once.
Ian,
I remember scuba diving over a Picasso Triggerfish on it's nest in the Red Sea just south of Jeddah and it took a chunk out of my flipper/fin as I swam over. You are right - they are very aggressive and pretty dang fearless.
This reminds me - Did you know when various fish are bedding they will chase other fish and aquatic animals away from their nest? Fish often scoop out a shallow bowl shaped depression, usually in a sandy type bottom, where they will lay their eggs. I watched a 3-4 lb largemouth bass making such a nest in an old gravel borrow pit. She was near the bank in about 16-18 inch deep water and I heard a thrashing and looked over and saw her tail completely out of the water.
Bluegills in that same lake would make beds on sandy points that were typically in 1'-2' deep water. Every full moon from about April through October they would return and lay eggs in the nest.
Often if you can find such a bed and carefully place a bait in it the fish will pick it up and move it even if they would not eat the bait and eventually you would hook them. My friends dad found such a nest in a grassy gravel pit and repeatedly tossed a plastic worm in it. It was at about the max distance he could cast and missing to either side meant it would get fouled in the grass. Many times he hit the target and the bass would pick up the worm by the tail and remove it from the bed and not get hooked when he set the hook. Finally he succeeded in hooking and landing her - an 8 lb bass.
Another time I took my mom and a neighbor lady/friend fishing in the gravel lakes and we located a bluegill bed under a sweetgum limb. The water was dark and we could not see it but there was a dinner plate sized bed under there and that was the only place the fish would bite. Once we hit the target we would always catch a half lb+ bluegill. At times you would see 3 floats within 6" of each other as we all tried to hit that exact spot. We were using cane poles.
Did you know fish can see birds and animals above but near the water and will sometimes jump completely out of the water and catch them? I once saw about a 4 lb bass jump completely out of the water trying to catch a warbler over a foot above the water who had landed on a cypress knee. I have also seen bass and possibly other fish jump up through a thick patch of floating lily pads or bonnets trying to catch/catching red wing blackbirds that often land on and walk around on top of the lily pads and bonnets.
Bird vs Fish | Blue Planet II - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4pxLHG0Wzs)
Those trevally are 100+ pounds and have learnt to take large seabirds on the wing!!!
Ian,
Great video. I loved seeing the loose feathers floating in the water after a successful attack. I loved watching the bulge in the water getting bigger and closer to the low flying bird.
I have heard of people talking about fish eating ducks and bears and such tasting "fishy". I wonder if these fish taste "birdy"? :D
Did you know that a Florida panther and a mountain lion from out west are the same species? In some circles the Fla panther is listed as a subspecies but they can readily interbreed. In fact some years back in the 1980s the state of Fla brought in 8 female mountain lions from Texas to breed with the Fla panthers to provide more genetic diversity. The number of Fla panthers had gotten so low they were interbreeding and the new outside genes helped the species improve and survive.
A major mortality factor for the cougars in Florida is road kill. New York once considered re-introducing cougars into the Adirondacks and the College of Environmental Science and Forestry (ESF) did a feasability study on it. Knowing of the high road kill for cougars in Florida, they looked at the number of miles of highway per square mile in the Florida cougar area and the number of miles of highway per square mile in the Adirondacks. The Adirondacks has more miles of highways; they concluded that the cougars would not be able to sustain all the loses on the road and maintain a viable population.
I have not seen reports yet but I fear the pythons may be the final straw for the extinction of the Fla panther. Not because of threats to the adult panthers but for the cubs. I hope I am wrong.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on January 14, 2023, 06:55:39 PMI fear the pythons may be the final straw for the extinction of the Fla panther
That's the reason NZ has such strict border controls and restrictions on exotic pets. NO snakes are allowed to be imported for ANY reason, not even as zoo animals. The pests that did get in, by accident or deliberately are bad enough for the local wildlife.
The bad thing about the pythons and such are that they mostly started from people releasing snakes they had as pets that had gotten too big to maintain or had gotten to the point they could be dangerous to other pets or small children.
Did you know there is no such species as a black panther? What people see and call a black panther is actually a melanistic (Black) phase of an Asian or African Leopard or in South America a black Jaguar. As I read there are no reported black mountain lions or Fla panthers although you would think there would be one born once in a while.
I have seen black panthers in the zoos and if you look closely you will see the darker spots just like their yellow skinned relatives have.
But we have "Wolfalards" on my property and I have a skull hanging over the shop door at the Cabin. I believe that they are somehow related to the Chupacabra. They mostly live and stay under and around the back bridge and are the most ferocious at night so none of the Grandchildren would ever go back there after sundown without a light. :o
Lynn,
Don't Wolfalards primarily prey on Jackelopes? We used to have them here but they were wiped out by the elusive Nauga cats which denned in the dense laurel/Rhododenron thickets along the mountain streams. Since the Nauga cats have been largely wiped out by the furniture companies for their hydes the State of WV is thinking about reintroducing them to the state.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/61033/IMG_20230115_194344441_HDR.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1673829898)
The Jackelope is a very elusive species. They are vicious, and will go for the kneecaps. I took this one in Montana. I was lucky to survive and tell about it. When I go back to Montana now, I'm known as the Fearless Jackelope Slayer.
My Brother in CO bought me a Jackalope hunting permit for Christmas one year around the early 70's. I went out there but could not get a tag to hunt the area I wanted. So I took what I could get, but never saw one with a big enough spread.
It's takes a certain amount of mental lubrication before you can see those guys clearly, or so I was told.
We have no Jackalopes so the principal food source for Wolfalards are Orges and Chimeras. The kill site will be a bloody mess but no remains are ever found. No hides, bones, or anything. It's a total mystery. smiley_headscratch
Lynn,
I don't want to burst your bubble but I think that is a rare horned doe Jackalope - like a doe deer with horns which happens occasionally. I do not see the distinct 3" protruding canines from the upper lip or the 6" curved lower tusks from the bottom jaw for which they are so famous for slashing packs of dogs like I would expect to see from a mature male Jackalope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clouded_leopard
Did you know there is a small leopard in parts of Asia called a clouded leopard? It seems to be about the size of our North American bobcat with females weighing from 25-35 lbs and a big male weighing maybe 50 lbs. They hunt small mammals and birds in their native habitat.
I just learned about these leopards last week reading about how someone cut a hole in the enclosure in the Dallas Zoo where 2 female leopards were kept. One escaped but never left the grounds while the other stayed in her enclosure. The zoo was shut down when they found her gone and they found and safely recaptured her later that same day.
Did you know the first cattle, other than possibly milk cows and a few oxen, were actually introduced to the America in Fla by Ponce de Leon and other Spanish explorers? Also the term cowboy was used more for herders out west riding horses and using lassos while in Fla and Ga and such they were called Cow Hunters and largely used whips and herding dogs to gather the wild cattle from the thick brush where roping them was much more difficult.
There are a number of interesting books out there called Cracker Westerns which are particularly good reading for those interested in life in the early southern USA, mostly Fla. They are fiction but but contain some good historical facts about the period.
I believe bull whips still used in Texas brush/mesquite country. Went to school with a guy from south Texas that could whip a fly off the wall, said the whip was the only way for them, drag it alongside the horse as they chased cows. Rope was a mess. Of course, that was years before chaining and herbicides.
What amazed me when I looked on line was how little info there was about the use of dogs during the rounding up and herding the cattle from Texas to the markets mostly to the north. A dog getting an unruly cow or steer out of the brush has to be much more effective than riding in there with a rope or whip.
BTW - one explanation for the term Fla Cracker came from the use of whips when they were collecting and herding cattle out of the brush there. The other suggested source is that they cracked their corn to make their grits which was a staple food item for them.
Florida does have a lot of forgotten but fascinating history from the Spanish period. I listened to an audio book about some of the early explorers. I can't remember his name, but he organized people to start a colony in Florida. This was after the Incas and Aztecs had been conquered, and the Spanish were figuring on another big gold and silver stockpile. Didn't happen, the natives they found didn't have gold and their population was pretty sparse. The terrain was horrible with swamps and impassable brush choked forests. They lost 90% of the expedition, the survivors put out on rafts. They blew across the Gulf of Mexico, landed around current Galveston, Texas. They made friends with some natives who at first befriended them, but then enslaved them. They were there several years before they escaped, made their way across Mexico to the Gulf of California where they ran into some Spanish slave raiders who thought they were natives at first. Around 10 years had passed, no one could believe they were still alive. I'm leaving a ton out but it was an incredible story. Also, maybe some of those Florida cattle came from them😁
Since we were talking of cows, herding, ropes, etrc. did you know many of our American words came from other languages and the Lasso or Lariat apparently came from the Spanish words La Riata for rope? Lots of times we change the accent from the original language.
The word "Clear" in French is "Transparent" but they pronounce it Trans Pear Aunt while we typically pronounce it Trans parent. Chauffer is French for Driver. If you have a pretty good vocabulary you can often get the gist of much of a foreign language although they sometimes get the order of the words all jumbled up. :D
I had bought a used Ford f150 Lariat one time, I was showing it to my Dad and said "it's a lariat, what ever that means" to which he replied " it means lasso but in this case it probably means tow rope". :D
I can see your dad was clearly a Dodge fan like me. :D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on January 18, 2023, 09:55:57 AMAmerican words came from other languages
Actually 40% plus of the English language is French based and 30-40% German based. It probably has something to do with all these lands being Roman at some time and proximity.
I see several threads here now about shedding of antlers. Did you know shed antlers are pretty quickly gnawed to nothingness by any rodents and such in the area? Examples include mice, squirrels, chipmunks, porcupines, and I suspect rabbits and hares eat them too. They gnaw them to obtain the minerals the antlers provide and the animals need. If you are looking for sheds you better find them pretty quickly or they will be severely damaged with points chewed off and chunks missing from the min beams, etc.
Good point! Usually in my experience the closer it gets to spring and warms up the chances are much higher the squirrels 🐿 will really chew on them. I've found them with a few chews and some completely destroyed.
I've taken some of my not-so-great antlers from the garage and tossed them back in the woods to let the critters have them. Some areas have precious little available calcium. I regularly take eggshells and crush them in my gravel driveway and they go fast. Birds in many calcium poor areas can benefit. They use it in their gizzards to grind food and in nesting season to make eggs of their own. Birds in areas like New Yorks' Adirondacks have been found to have trouble getting enough calcium during nesting season.
Thanks to KEC reminder to prompt today's topic. Did you know birds need some gravel or grit in their craw to help digest seeds and such? Crushed seashells like are fed to chickens are readily picked by wild turkeys. I knew an old experienced turkey hunter that routinely located and hunted turkeys in N. Fla in areas around old gravel roads where the turkeys would go to pick gravel.
Not too far from my home there is a state forest area that was planted to larch and spruces many years ago by the Civilian Conservation Corp (CCC). It is the one place around here where you have a reasonable chance of finding/seeing Red Crossbills and maybe White-winged Crossbills. A while back you needed only drive there to a parking lot and look along the edge of the road to see crossbills picking grit and not being that wary. When driving dirt/gravel roads through heavily forested areas, watch for various kinds of birds down in the road, oftentimes either gritting or dust bathing. At times when there is a lot of snow, watch for birds working the bare ground along the edge of the road that were scaped bare by the wing on the snowplows. I've seen Pine Grosbeaks that way and many Horned Larks and Snow Buntings.
Did you know a male hog is called a boar but if he has been neutered he is a barrow or more often called a bar hog? A young female is called a gilt but after she has had pigs she is called a sow.
Did you know that rodent's teeth constantly grow and they must chew hard materials to keep them worn down? If not the teeth will grow very long and curl to the point the animal cannot eat and will starve to death. This is a mistake many people make when they make a pet of a squirrel, beaver or woodchuck or such. They feed the animal soft foods and his teeth do not get worn down as they would in nature.
I've caught 2 woodchucks over the years that had their incisor teeth that did not wear properly. The teeth were long and curled like a wooly mammoth or something. Both appeared to be healthy.
They must have had access to a decent supply of soft food they could eat and survive on. I had heard of the same thing with woodchucks but have never seen it myself.
Elephants have 3 sets of molars with each replacing the other till the last one wears out. When that happens they have to eat bananas and soft papyrus stalks instead of woody fiber like they normally eat.
Did you know Guinea pigs did not come from Guinea and they are not pigs? They are a south American rodent that was originally domesticated for food and eventually they have been bred into the present day animal primarily raised for pets.
Did you know that an oyster is made up of about 40% gonad? (I think I heard when I was in school it was 80% - suffice it to say its a lot.) I think this is where the term Rocky Mountain Oysters came from or at least a contributing factor.
The cavies will have to speak up for themselves :D.
so much for oysters.
I did not know any of this so Google provided some interesting reading. I do not eat oysters but still interesting.
Did you know snakes coil for several reasons - some of these are fact and some are speculation? You can try to figure which is which.
A snake can strike further and faster from a coiled position.
A snake coils to protect its vulnerable tail area. (Did you ever watch an experienced dog, fox, coyote, mongoose, etc. catch a snake? They dance around in front of it tempting it to strike and when it does and is out of position the predator strikes,) If you watch the snake hunters in the everglades or old Crocodile Hunter shows they almost always move around till they can get the snake by the tail then they can control and catch it by the head later.
A coiled snake presents a smaller footprint and can hide in ambush better.
A coiled snake retains any body heat better.
For climbing snakes, a coiled position spreads out the body across limbs and such for a more stable position.
Did you know Black Widow spiders actually rarely eat their mates? They will eat other spiders that get caught in their webs and in some species the newly hatched spiders may eat their unhatched siblings. The common black widow most of us know is about 1/2" long with the stereotypical red hourglass marking on her abdomen. The male is about half the size of the female and lighter in color. I can't say that I have ever recognized a male black widow.
The bite is poisonous and you should seek medical attention if bitten. They hang out around woodpiles and old wooden structures so most of us need to remember to be careful and wear gloves.
Most bites in the old days came from people using old outhouses and such. I cannot imagine a much more embarrassing reason than having to go to Crystal, my lady doctor, and tell her I was bit by a black widow spider on my mountain oysters. ::)
guys were tougher in the old days, and would have never sought help for a little poisonous spider bite! :o :o :o 8) 8) 8) :D :D :D
mostly we see folks worried about brown recluse bites. nothing to do unless you feel sick (rare) or the skin is necrosing or infected. half the folks show up with some other insect bite, or 5 minutes after seeing one in the house (that they think might have been one).
Did you know they have spotted a rare leopard in Turkey that had not been seen in 45 years and had been though to be extinct? I had never even thought about leopards living in Turkey. I m always glad to hear about a discovery like this where an "extinct" species suddenly reappears.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/article271692037.html
Did you know that snakes come out in the winter? While they are not very active since they are cold blooded they are still awake and will come out to sun themselves on warmer sunny days. They tend to crawl under things or go into holes in the ground where the temperature does not fluctuate as much but you need to be careful moving old logs and board piles and such. I read where a dog in Charlotte NC was bitten last week apparently by a copperhead.
I remember hunting wood ducks one day in N Fla and we had a real cold spell come through. It was 20* with ice along the edge of the pond formed by a beaver dam when a large cottonmouth suddenly came swimming by. He ended up with a load of #4 shot in his head. I suspect something had disturbed him but I have no idea what it could have been.
Did you know? Woodchucks are one of few true hibernator. In northern Great Lakes region, its from October to April. The body temperature will go as low as 35 degrees. During the sleep heart will beat 4 to 10 per minute. The breathing rate a little as one breath every 6 minutes. How much does a woodchuck chuck, very little at this time
And now I can't remember if it is them, do they wake in Feb, go courting and then wander back for a nap?
Don,
We will see next week. :D
Did you know woodchucks (Marmots) are common in Mongolia? We did a tour over there at the end of my work assignment in the Gobi Desert in 2006 and found they were quite common in the hills and grasslands of central and northern Mongolia. Eastern Indian tribes used Woodchuck hides for drum heads as they are very tough skins.
Did you know that the type of gator hunting you see on Swamp People was late in coming into practice before gator hunting in Fla was outlawed? My grandfather was a professional gator hunter and he said just before he had to quit people were starting to hang lines out over the water with beef "lights" and such to catch them.
I don't know whether Grandpa Green loved gator hunting that much or whether us grandkids just loved to here him tell about it and conned him into telling about it more than his other adventures. He was a plume hunter for a while and did not know they had passed a law against it till he sent his bundle to his 3rd buyer. The first 2 sent them back immediately with no comment. The third buyer said it was now a federal offense to possess them and not to send him any more, He said he wished either of the first two had told him and saved him the postage.
Grandma was bedridden so we'd all gather in their big joint bedroom where she could listen too. Grandpa had string pull light fixtures with cords stretched to the bedposts so he could pull them from anywhere without having to get up from the bed. He sit up against the headboard with several pillows to prop him up and we'd gather at the foot of the bed or on the floor to listen to his tales.
He said when he hunted gators mostly he'd "Set them up". I asked him what that meant and he said he'd find a gator hole (Den) in a sinkhole or stream somewhere and try to find the direction of the entrance and get on the back side of it and "Set" there till he came up and then he'd shoot him. He evidently had a long pole with a hook on it he'd use to retrieve the dead gator. He told us a gator could stay under water an hour or more without breathing and if they knew he was there the gator would often come up behind a stick or such and just stick his nose out of the water and take a quick snort of air then he was good for another hour or two of bottom time. Grandpa said if he could just shoot the nose it would injure and agitate and cause the gator to use up his air quicker and he'd come back up quicker.
He speculated that a gator could not count past 2. He said he'd be hunting and some other hunter would walk up and see him and apologize for messing up his hunting and walk away and it would be a long wait for the gator to come up. He said if 2 or more people came up on him, as soon as they left the gator would pop up and he'd shoot it. (I don't know why he never got 2 hunting buddies to come with him then let them walk away if that was true - but he did believe it whether it was right or not.)
Grandpa said he'd found a gator den in a sinkhole one time and was poking around in it with his pole trying to find the direction it went and he said a big old bull gator busted out of there and grabbed 5-6 ft long piece of driftwood in his jaws and turned and tried to take it back in his den but it was too long and he could not get it with it crossways to the entrance like it was so Grandpa jumped on top of him and shot him.
As I remember only the belly hides were sold although he said something about the "buttons" from the back were sometime sold. One lady buyer would dock him $1 for a cut in the hide on every gator he sold. She paid top dollar so he still bring them to her. Finally one day he explained to her that hole was the gator's anus and it was going to be on every gator. She dropped her buying price by a dollar but no longer penalized her buyers for a cut hide.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3407.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1675089548)
Grandpa finally had to quit his by then illegal gator hunting and several other activities when he joined the Fla Fish and Game Department and became one of their early Game Wardens. In the picture above he was probably about 60 years old in his uniform (Looks like an Army Uniform and this was not long after WWII and Korea so it may have been they had them in excess) and his department jeep. He said they gave him the Jeep and told him to use it like his own and he did till they made him quit plowing his garden with it. He explained to the department if it was his jeep he'd be out there plowing with it but they told him it was inappropriate use of State property and he had to quit.
I saw some old Randolph Scott movies recently and Grandpa always seemed to have the same craggy face Randolph did.
I have mentioned but Grandpa hated the Seminole Indians because they raped and scalped his grandmother during the second Seminole Indian wars while his grandfather was away fighting the Seminoles. My Aunt did some research and said Great-Great Grandma was a Seminole herself. We think her name was Moon and her father was Osceola.
Grandpa caught a man firehunting out of season and confiscated a deer he had killed and gave it to the local school. They had deer stew for lunch the next day and the man's son told several classmates "We would not be having this deer stew if it weren't for my dad." Dad's older brother, Uncle Junior replied "You might be having deer stew but we would not be having it if not for my dad".
Grandpa Green was the patriarch of the family and we all lowed to spend time with him.
Did you know that some birds can live to be over 100 years old? Act now - buy an obnoxious parrot or macaw, train it to talk using embarrassing phrases and will it to your grandkids and get even with them for not coming to visit.
When she was a kid my wife's local vet, who was obviously an Auburn grad, had a pet parrot and a bunch of his derelict buddies there in N. Alabama (I think one ran a sawmill near Huntsville) taught the bird to yell "Roll Tide". Fortunately the vet had a sense of humor and did not remove the birds vocal cords.
In some quick research I discovered birds do not age like people and many other animals do and it is very hard for scientists to tell the actual age of a bird once it reaches full maturity.
https://abcbirds.org/blog21/bird-longevity/#:~:text=Whether%20you%20want%20to%20ace,years%2C%20depending%20on%20the%20species.
Did you know birds preen to clean, straighten and protect their feathers? They spend much of their day preening. Most birds have a type of oil secreting gland at the base of the feathers and a few others have a number of down producing feathers that serves the same purpose. The birds evenly spread the oil or dust on their feathers to help make them waterproof and reduce wind resistance. During this process they also remove parasites and broken feather and other debris. Each feather gets individually preened cleaning and fluffing and arranging it.
Ducks have an oil gland by their butt; when you see one rubbing its' bill there and then on their feathers they are transferring oil to the feathers so that water beads up and runs off. I think that birds that get into petroleum that rehabilitators wash with soapy water have to be held captive until they can replenish their feather oil. If released just after being washed they can get waterlogged and or succumb to hyperthermia. Some birds will hold an ant in their bill and run it through their feathers. Ants produce formic acid and this may be a way to make life hard on parasites. I once watched a Great Crested Flycatcher laying on its' back on a hot sunny day with its' wings open. I suspect that it had something to do with parasites.
I don't know about flycatchers but Anhingas and Cormorants will often be seen on low limbs over and around the water with their wings spread as you describe. They are nearly always drying their feathers after a dip/fishing trip in the water. I never saw a bird doing that laying on his back though.
Since we drifted off into threshing material on a sister thread I am reminded of seeing old leftover millet stalks and such used for roofing materials on huts in remote African villages. Did you know how a round African mud (Sometimes stone or cow manure but usually clay) hut/home were built?
The builder basically starts with a stake in the middle of the new hut. He then takes a piece of rope the desired radius (half the diameter) and with one end connected to the stake he scribes a circle with the other end like using an old style compass like we used as kids in school. Instead of a rope a small diameter stick could have been used.
Once the outer floor is marked a foundation is built using stones or mud bricks/blocks. In some cases short poles will be inserted in the foundation for extra support. These are not very tall as I do not remember the walls of a mud hut ever being over about 5' tall. These poles, IIRC, will be completely covered in mud, clay, cow manure, etc. during the building process.
The walls are built on the foundation leaving spaces for doors and windows. Casings of local materials (Wood, raffia palm fronds, bamboo, etc.) are made to support the sides and a lintel of sorts is places across the top. In dry, rocky areas flat stones are collected and stacked. These may be the finished walls or covered with other building materials. If covered the stones are often just used for fill to reduce the amount of other material used. If stones are not readily available small brush may be woven in the wall to help hold the wet clay and manure or such used. As I remember the walls were typically 6"-8" thick.
Long, straight, small diameter poles are connected at the center like on an American Indian TeePee with the other end resting on the wall. In many cases these are Raffia Palm frond stems or Indian Bamboo if available. Often these "Rafters" extend past the wall 2'-3'. Thick vines or ropes of thin limber twisted brush or grass are placed and tied to the rafters in concentric circles around the roof. These are placed in parallel rings about 18"-20" apart. The actual roofing varies but is whatever is readily available. Millet stalks, local grass (similar to our broom sedge), or palm fronds are place and tied into place starting at the bottom and overlapping like our shingles to shed the rain. These materials last from a few (2-3) to several (5-8 years) before they have to be replaced. Where possible now many tribesmen cover the roof with corrugated roofing materials. The natural materials are cooler.
At the very peak where the straw and such meet it is tied together like a bundle of oats or such and an inverted clay pot is often place over the knot to keep rain from falling into the hut. In several cases I saw old metal chamber pots used for this purpose.
BTW - did you know one reason the African's like round huts is they believe evil spirits are little men who hide in the corners and work their evil magic. The tribesmen also sleep on raised beds so the little demons cannot jump up and reach them while sleeping.
Did you know that different animals eyes shine in different colors when you shine a bright light on them at night? The different colors are caused by mineral content in the eyes and especially the retina. People's eyes do not shine partly because we are diurnal instead of nocturnal and we lack certain features in our eyes night active animals have.
Did you know that many snakes eat other snakes? King snakes are famous for eating other snakes and IIRC several species of cobras eat other snakes. Now if we can just super size a king snake and turn him loose in the Everglades to eat the pythons there we will be in business. Of course when they eat all the pythons they will probably shift to other animal and bird species and do as much damage as the pythons. ::)
That reminded me. I was rummaging in the barn upstairs today and this backed me up for a second :D. It's about 6' long, happily it was well below freezing up there.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/ratSnake.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1675560881)
That skin reminds me of the old adage "He won't hurt you but he will make you hurt yourself." Usually that was when a harmless water snake would fall into the boat with you.
I don't know how many times an old broken fanbelt, a rope or an old bike tire nearly caused me to have a heart attack or run into something getting away from it.
I still have about a 6-7 inch long keloid/scar on my right side from when I was a kid swimming in a local creek and walking along the bank when a big old cottonmouth slid off the bank through the dry leaves. He was several feet in front of me and crawling away from me and no real threat but I jumped back, something stopped me so I jumped back again before I realized it was a good tight barbed wire fence and I had a 12"+ gash in my side. I should have gone to the doctor and gotten stitches but I had this vision of Mom pumping the treadle on her old Singer sewing machine and refused to go. I did get in front of a big old box fan before I started applying alcohol or iodine or whatever antiseptic we had in the house.
Did you ever think of how painful it must be for a mother porcupine or hedgehog to give birth? Actually it is not as bad as you might think because the baby porcupine and hedgies have soft spines/quills before they are born. Evidently the points lay flat away from the direction of the birth canal and pass though easier that way. The quills and spines get hard after they come into contact with the air.
When I did wildlife control I once got a call from a guy who said there was a snake in his toilet. When I looked into the toilet it looked like it might be a snake but a closer look revealed a spoon handle. He was happy to pay for a service call charge. Did you know that some birds like to incorporate a snake skin in their nest material, such as the Great-crested Flycatcher ? Don, hopefully the snakeskin was from a black rat snake and he's helping you with rodent control.
I had not thought of it but I have seen dry snake skin in bird nests. I poisoned/dusted some paper wasp nests last year and in very short order the local birds had torn the nest to shreds for their nesting materials. They might have been getting the grubs too.
That is a black rat snake skin and the barn is full of mice so we have an agreement not to see one another even when we do :D. They do not have the best disposition. I'm not saying they are aggressive, but... I had one last summer crawl right across my walking path while I was planing and set up housekeeping under the planer, while its running. After a few minutes of that nonsense I could either get into a battle or, I gave the snake the planer for the afternoon :D
WV, porcupines have to make those babies while loaded with quills, too😬
I've read that many porcupines that have been examined have healed broken bones, likely from falling out of trees.
That is a good point I had not considered. Do you know how porcupines mate? The article below describes best as "Conventional but very careful". :D
https://www.zooniverse.org/talk/1485/1330923?comment=2161393&page=1
In a sister thread someone mentioned Otters have a designated toilet area. I did not know they did that but did you know other animals may do the same thing? It is common for dogs in a fenced yard to have an area they use for their bathroom. I visited a small zoo in Arizona one time and they had a lama in one of the pens and it had a regular mound several feet high of accumulated droppings.
Did you know that some animals cover their droppings apparently to hide their presence from other predators? Domestic cats are famous for this but you will see some dogs scratch dirt, leaves and grass over their droppings. I gather other wild canines do the same thing.
Not sure but the canines digging/scratching might be due to their having glands on the pads of their feet; leaves their calling card.
Yup, cats cover, dogs scratch off. :D
That is probably a better description. I know when Sampson finishes his business and starts kicking leaves and grass he is pretty cocky about it rather than like he is trying to hide something. :D
Did you know that predators eyes generally look forward while prey species tend to have more of an all around and side view? Predators tend to focus on their prey while the prey animals need to be on the look out for danger from all sides. Think of a deer or rabbit compared to a wolf or coyote.
Did you know that in India people go into tiger reserves to collect firewood and they sometimes get eaten by tigers. They found that, because tigers attack when you are looking the other way that by wearing a mask on the back of their head, they were less likely to be attacked and the death rate dropped.
I knew that in India and Bangladesh wood gathers get killed by tigers but I had not heard about the masks. I know some moths and such have designs on their wings and such that mimic eyes and faces that help protect them from predators.
Did you know that some animals use tools? Primates are the most famous for it. They use stones to crack open nuts and shellfish and such. I watched a young gorilla in The Central African Republic poking a stick in a termite mound and when it was covered with termites he'd lick them off the stick and repeat. Sea otters use rocks to break open shellfish. Some birds use thorns to poke into holes and impale insect larvae and such. Elephants will grab a palm frond or pile of brush to use as a fly swatter or such. Crows and Blue Jays and such will place a nut in the fork of a tree to use as a vice to hold it while they break it open with their beaks.
Did you know that a dog was recently rescued in Nevada who had been living with a pack of coyotes? Speculation is that the dog had been lost or abandoned as a puppy then found and raised by the coyotes. As I remember the dog was not particularly aggressive to the people who captured and treated him. For a pack of coyotes to accept a dog is very unusual as normally they would have killed and even eaten him. I find it odd he did not become more aggressive to humans while living as a wild animal. Strange things do happen.
Friendly Ghost: white dog adopted by coyotes gets help from rescue group | Nevada | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/09/coyote-dog-ghost-nevada-desert-rescued)
Did you know the Egyptian plover is known as a Crocodile Bird because of its habit of walking around in the open mouth of crocodiles in Africa and eating small bits of fish and meat left behind when the crocodile eats? This is considered a symbiotic relationship because both the bird and the crocodile benefit from the relationship with no harm to either.
https://smallscience.hbcse.tifr.res.in/crocodile-and-the-plover-bird/
Did you know in the ocean there is an equivalent to the crocodile bird known as the cleaner shrimp? This shrimp walks into the open mouth and cleans away parasites and debris which is helpful to the fish and provides a living for the shrimp. You'd think he would end up being a snack.
Pederson's Cleaner Shrimp (https://www.lamar.edu/arts-sciences/biology/study-abroad-belize/marine-critters/marine-critters-3/perdersons-cleaner-shrimp.html#:~:text=The%20cleaner%20shrimp%20has%20a,gill%20coverings%20of%20the%20fish).
Did you know that in southern Africa they have a hardwood tree called a Mopani tree? This tree has a species of caterpillar that attacks them. The grubs are about 3" long and half an inch or so in diameter so are very similar to our Catalpa worms. They are a staple food item to the local tribes in the area. When there is an infestation you will see people running around with gunny sacks collecting them and you will find bins full of dry, blackened grubs in the local outdoor markets.
Sort of like when we had a 17 year Cicada emergence I was in an area where they were thick. Many birds were feasting on the adult Cicadas and they would just eat their favorite part and drop the rest on the ground. There was a constant din of Cicada sounds in the air like a Sci-fi movie. I did not try them.
When I was stationed in Thailand, I saw a lot of locals eat Cicada Locusts.
Pick the wings, legs, and head off and eat the rest!
I never tried them either.
Did you know in Korea they eat silkworm larva? I left Okinawa just before Christmas 1986 at the end of my tour and came home via Korea. I was staying at the BOQ at Osan Air Base and I walked outside shopping and sight-seeing on Christmas Eve. I picked up a local guide of sorts who wanted to practice his English (Probably a North Korea Spy :D) and at a street corner I saw pots suspended over an open fire with what looked like an old fashioned southern peanut boiling. The seller was bagging them in small paper bags like we did our peanuts. I asked my guide what they were and he talked to the seller and she told him it was silkworm larva. I did not try them either.
Street Vendor in Bangkok Thailand, where I was last September
digin1
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18492/FA99355B-D6AE-4759-920F-122CD8072449.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676472758)
digin_2
digin_2
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18492/8EC3A2EC-6C78-4C91-98D8-EA6C42BA36CB.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676472792)
No, I did not try them
steve_smiley
JJ
Prolly no different than grits. Just taste like whatever spices, sweets, or condiments are added to them. Consistency may differ by the cooking method.. fried, boiled, baked.. ??
To sell that many bug on nightly basis, there must be a bug farm somewhere.
They look well fed and healthy aside from being crispy.
In 2006 I did a project in Mongolia and afterwards my wife and I took a 2 week private tour through the central and northern area. While driving across the grasslands we encountered huge swarms of large grasshoppers jumping up in front of our SUV and our guide said he took a Japanese group through there one time and they wanted to get out and catch and eat them. I suggested to him that he could make a big net and mount on the front of his SUV and drive through the grass and catch them. He was getting excited about the idea and I don't know if he ever came back and tried it later.
WV, I'm surprised you didn't try to figure out how to ship a ton of those hoppers home for fish bait.
KEC,
My wife is scared of all bugs. ::) She would rather use a slimy worm for fish bait than a nice clean cricket. :( She would not let me put them in our suitcases. :o :D :D
So you did contemplete taking them home. Guilty as charged.
Did you know in addition to the Nile Crocodile you see in most movies and documentaries about Africa there is also a Pygmy Crocodile which is very common in many of the streams? Crocodile is on the menu in most local restaurants so the crocodiles are more likely to be eaten by people than the people are to be eaten by crocodiles.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/Petite_Batanga_040.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1676645451)
This is a picture of a pygmy crocodile that had been caught and was for sale at an open air market at Petit Batanga near Kribi Cameroon in early 2004. Pygmy crocodiles grow up to about 6' long while a Nile crocodile may grow to close to 20' long and weigh half a ton or more.
Petit Batanga was a market at a river crossing where people brought goods from the river to sell or trade to people who came in by road with their products to sell and trade. I loved going there to visit.
Did you know there is a rare subspecies of Black Bears in southeast Alaska and part of western Canada known as a glacier bear or also called a Blue bear? They are a bluish grey color phase.
Unraveling the Mystery of the Glacier Bear (U.S. National Park Service) (https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/glacierbearmystery.htm)
I knew that.
I did not know that but I do know there is a white bear in BC known as the Spirit Bear.
The Spirit Bear - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IRxdk6m17s)
I think I had seen articles about the spirit bear. Apparently American Indians used to say the same thing about "Spirit Bison" when a white Bison calf would be born.
Did you know that Salmon have special features in their gills that pump sodium into their cells when they are in freshwater but pumps it out when they are int he ocean? This allows the salmon to spawn in fresh water then the frwy migrate to and mature in the ocean then return to the freshwater stream they were hatched in and spawn when mature.
We were working near Pine Ridge in the early 90's when a white bison was born elsewhere. It was The news for a little while. It was a very rare thing at the time. Looking it up the story is here;
White buffalo - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_buffalo)
Remember we discussed here on reply 1575 that a white elephant was basically a curse because they were sacred and when gifted to someone the new owner had to care and maintain them the rest of their life (and elephants live a long time) and they could not use them for work purposes.
Did you know a white elephant was not really white? It is more of a pink phase and IIRC they are subject to sunburn.
White-tailed deer are sometimes white, either albino or piebald. Some places they are not legal to harvest. They oftentimes have genetic abnormalities. There was one just down the road from here several years ago. I drove down to see it and it was lying down in an open pasture in the cold and snow. Its' front feet were deformed as though they got broken and healed a little crooked. My guess is that it was shunned by the other deer, which can happen to birds and animals that are white.
There use to be a few around here but have not seen any for a while.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/2262/IMG_1476.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1240111728)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/20201120_115426.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1634248683)
At first glance that deer could pass for an ayrshire or short-horn calf, especially if you don't look at the head.
Did you know, IIRC, Salmon eggs can be collected from fish in one stream and hatched in a hatchery and released in another stream and when the fry leave and mature in the ocean they will return to the stream they were released into rather than the stream their parents were caught in?
Did you know the white on a fishes belly and dark on the back is a form of natural camouflage? From underneath especially with a the sun shining above it is hard to see that light color while a dark color would be seen while looking down at the dark color from above makes him harder to see. The military typically does the same thing with even camouflage on top to blend in to the tree pattern below.
If they were smart, commercial airlines would reverse that pattern and have a dark bottom color and a light color on top so other airplanes above or below could more readily see them.
Did you know that there are commercial enterprises that hatch out salmon eggs and put a chemical "marker" in the water prior to releasing the fry into a river. When it is time for those fish to come back to spawn they release that chemical at some facility on the river and the salmon follow that odor to that place and they are harvested and sold. Far as I know they still do this. Imagine releasing calves onto open range and when they are grown they all come back to the ranch and climb into the cattle trucks to go to slaughter !
I did not know that. I did know they used to raise sea bream - an expensive fish - and they'd ring a bell when they'd feed them. They'd release them in the ocean and continue to feed and ring the bell at regular intervals to keep the fish used to the stations but the fish mostly raised on natural food from the ocean. Finally when they got big enough they would ring the bell and close the trap. They said they had about a 95% recovery rate which I thought was amazing for fish running wild in the ocean!
Did you know the Yurt or Ger as it is actually called in Mongolia, is designed and built to be portable housing? The walls are wooden lattice panels similar to what you would find at any building supply store. Where the lattice strips overlap they are drilled with an awl and a piece of rawhide cord is pushed through and a special knot is tied at each intersection. When constructed this way the panels will fold up like an accordion for easy transport. Gers are built is various standard sizes and are referred to as a 5 panel ger or an 8 panel ger, etc.
I assume the only reason the lattice you buy at Lowes or Home Depot does not fold up is because the intersections are fastened with staples instead of nails or rawhide strings.
I mentioned yesterday how the Ger or Yurt "walls" are made like Lattice panels. Did you know the next level or layer on a ger is a felt lining which insulates the ger from the extreme cold weather in Mongolia and other places where used? The felt historically was made by the herders saving the hair and wool off the horses, camels, sheep, yaks and goats and weaving it into felt. I never got to witness this process but I assume it was pretty time consuming. The felt was cut into sheets or panels that would fit perfectly over the rounded sides and top of the ger. In transit the felt would be rolled up like a big household rug. Once the frame of the ger was erected the felt was draped over it to make the siding. Over that the next level was a thin canvas cover that would shed any rain they did happen to get. During nice weather the bottom the canvas and felt would be rolled up a foot or so to allow ventilation. At night or in cold weather the canvas and felt was rolled down and dirt was piled around and on the edges to keep cold air from entering the ger.
Did you know that, if you have a successful night as a frog gigger, kitchen food disposals are not well suited to grinding up bullfrog heads and skins and getting rid of the remains? (Well, at least that is what I have heard - not that I would ever try something like that. ::))
Did you know you don't just save the back legs off a big bullfrog? The front legs and backs are also good eating too. If the frog was not big enough to eat the front legs and back I left him in the swamp to grow bigger and got him on another trip.
Did you know the old timers in Norway figured out a way to help keep mice and such out of their homes and storage buildings by designing footer posts as shown below?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3470.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1677522542)
The half-hourglass/half flange design meant when Mickey sneaked up the post holding up the house he would get to the "flange" overhead and he would fall off and could not get in.
Some of those old Noggies were pretty sharp. (I think they exported the rest to New York. :D)
Well even us 'not so sharp' Nordman are smarter than a lot of other folks on a relative basis.
Maybe the "Norway" mice have yet to figure it out, but doesn't look like an obstacle for a normal mouse. :snowball:
Well, my drawing is not to scale. It was a much wider flat overhead area than in my drawing. I assume you could also grease the area or put some sticky goop of some kind on there to help make a barrier to stop them vermin. The design looked like it would keep most of them back.
In Saudi we had a guy parking on our street, which was open to the public, then he'd climb a utility pole and jump a cinderblock wall to go see his girlfriend. We were short on parking anyway but our Yemini guard, Saad, could not catch him. Finally Saad just greased the pole with old burnt motor oil and the problem was solved.
Along the same lines, this was the traditional Maori food storage. Same idea, it was on a pole, and had large overhangs to prevent rats getting in.
https://teara.govt.nz/en/artwork/23447/pataka
Ian,
I have seen similar cashes shown on various reality shows about Alaska and such. The would either put up a pole or cut the top off a tree and build there where it would be difficult for critters to get to. Usually they were more worried about bears or wolverines or birds or such. The same principle applies especially if they installed some other barrier to block them climbing the pole. It is common to see inverted cones on pean trees and such to keep squirrels from getting the nuts. My daughter lives in Charlotte and they have a problem caterpillars climbing the oak trees so they wrap a wide band of sticky backed material around the tree about chest high.
I think that building is called a Stabbur, a grainery. Notice the interlocking pieces bracing those piers. And I would have a hard time keeping that from being a leaf filled tinder box.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/stabbur.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1615985112)
You have the right name Don, in norse that means "storehouse". The example you've shown is a little unusual in that most I saw over there, including original ones, were on short stilts, narrower on the bottom as Howard showed. The stairs are never attached to the building also to keep vermin from access. Usually important possessions and clothing were kept upstairs and food good were hung on the lower floor. I seem to remember a historian over there tell me the stilts were coated heavy with pitch to discourage critters. That building was usually the only one on the farmstead that had a lock and the mistress of the house held the one key traditionally.
I was never told this, but I think a secondary reason for the elevated height was to keep it at or above the snow. The lack of windows I know were to keep out the summer heat (which they ain't got much of anyway) and also keep the extreme colds to a minimum. They were shooting for airtight as much as possible.
Thanks for posting. That one is way fancier than the one I remember which was built for utility and not to show off.
Below is a link to an old farm in Aurland at the head of the world's longest Fjoird. My Noggie daughter did and may still be working there.
OTTERNES BYGDETUN (fjords.com) (https://www.fjords.com/no/otternes-bygdetun/#bwg392/6446)
Well with Spring time just around the corner I see my peach tree is budding out. I didn't check the apple but I bet they are too. Did you know that many seeds require help to sprout and grow? Some seeds have to be swallowed and pass through a digestive system like of an elephant or some other animal before they will grow. Some have to be washed down swift water streams and be beaten up by the rocks to thin them enough to grow. Some require fire to prepare a seed bed for them. In many cases these will lay in wait until they get a fire or flood or some unusual climate event before they grow.
Where the now extinct dodo bird once lived, there is a tree that,for a period of time, was not regenerating. Long story short, they fiqured out that the dodo birds used to eat the seeds of that tree and the grinding action in their gizzard would thin the seed shells. IIRC, they fed some of those seeds to turkeys and the seeds sprouted. The poor dodos were dumber'n a box of rocks as they evolved with no predators and were not wary. Explorers in ships found them and made short work of killing them all for food.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 01, 2023, 08:38:34 AMDid you know that many seeds require help to sprout and grow? Some seeds have to be swallowed and pass through a digestive system like of an elephant or some other animal before they will grow
The Rimu tree here in NZ is a Podocarp softwood that seeds in drupes (like small berries). What they have found is the seeds germinate much better if the drupe was eaten by a Weta (big cricket-like bug), and then pooped out. I think the same applies when birds eat them.
Did you know that the hummingbird has such a high metabolic rate that when he stops and roosts at night he basically goes into a coma?
I vaguely remember that a lot of birds run on half their brain at a time, the other half is asleep. That is how they can stay aloft over oceans and for long migrations.
Did you know that male ruby throated hummingbirds are very territorial and will violently chase away any other male RTH from their food source? They will allow all the females who want to come to the feeder or plant but seem to spend most of their day chasing the other males away.
Hummingbird nests are about the size of a red pine cone, about 2 in diameter and relatively round. A friend of mine had one in his yard in a red pine out towards the end of a branch about 8 feet up from the ground. It was perfect camouflage and a good spot to avoid predators I think.
I don't know if they prefer to nest in conifers but that's where I saw one.
Did you know the social weaver birds in Southern Africa make nests that can weigh over a ton?
https://www.audubon.org/magazine/march-april-2014/africas-social-weaverbirds-take-communal
Many of these birds live in the same nest as well as being home to other birds and animals. Cobras and Mambas and other snakes take up residence. Some falcons and other birds piggyback on these structures. IIRC our guide also told us during periods of extreme drought and such some herders would cut down the trees with the weaver bird nests for fodder for their livestock.
Did you know that the House Sparrows that are now all over North America are not sparrows. They are in the weaver finch family. Their nests are shaped somewhat like the weaver finch nests in Africa. Some of the same people who were instrumental in introducing them here lived to regret it as the House Sparrows displace bluebirds and other native cavity nesters.
KEC
I don't know if that is the ones that found the bluebird house in my front yard 2 years ago and raised a clutch of you. One died in the box. After they left I cleaned out the box and my bluebirds raised a clutch in there too.
Did you know when building an old fashioned haystack the typical procedure was to erect a pole in the middle of the field and throw the hay up around it? A long handled pitchfork was used to get the hay up 15-20 feet tall. I have an old neighbor who bought a haystack pitchfork and without thinking about it cut the handle off to a more normal length. He said he kicked himself after he did it when he realized how much he had hurt the value of it.
If you are more familiar with a different way to erect haystacks please chime in here.
The Acadians that cut hay in the salt marsh along the coast made their haystacks (une barge) on elevated platforms (staddle).
Argyle Archives: Acadian Traditions - Making Salt Haystacks - English - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqVxQhx3LKU)
Neat vid. I assume that marsh gets flooded and they protect the hay by keeping it off the ground.
Did you know if you make a screech owl box you need to put sawdust or shavings in for bedding as the owls do not bring in any nesting material? They normally nest in old woodpecker dens and the trees are usually full of punky rotting wood material.
Yes, the higher tides and storm surge will flood it, I use to help a dairy farmer take in bailed hay from a marsh but the marsh had a dike and under ground drainage. He also had a hay wagon with large and wide aircraft tires on it that did not sink in the ground.
Good info and that prompts my next topic for the day.
Did you know that many, if not most, of the windmills in Holland were hooked to pumps? The low land was surrounded by dykes and the water would seep in to a landowners field and the windmill/pump lifted and moved the water from one side of the dyke to the other. In essence a landowner would often be pumping water from his field over the dyke to his neighbors property and that neighbor would pump it to his neighbor on the other side till finally the last landowner in the process pumped it over the dyke into the ocean.
I ate at a resturaunt in Holland once and looked out the window and counted 17 of those windmills. I used to haul air freight from Rhine Main Air Force base and sometimes to Holland. The first time they sent me I thought about going up and seeing White Storks nesting on houses and chimneys. Never saw any in Holland, but did see 1 in northern West Germany near Bremerhaven. I understand that the storks were in serious decline but are doing a little better now in some places. I saw a bunch of Eurasian Coots in Holland.
Did you know an lynx and a bobcat can mate and produce hybrid offspring? It does not happen often in the wild but can occur if there are a shortage of lynx in the area.
One of the more unique ways I've seen of putting hay up is local to southwest Montana. They used what was called a "beaverslide", I'll try to find a link to the process rather than trying to describe it. It's not much used anymore. But they built some towering mounds of hay, I think they were 40-50' high.
I just linked to a Wikipedia article on them, if you do a search on beaverslide there's lots of articles and videos.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaverslide
One of the crazy contraptions that worked with the Beaverslide were the rigs they had for pushing the hay long distances across the field, to the stacker. I don't remember what they called them but they were a automobile that was stripped and reversed, think kind of like a doodlebug but with everything turned around like the old reversed tractors that were made into forklifts and loaders. I remember seeing one on a piece of property my Uncle had just purchased adjacent to his ranch in northeast Wyoming, right on the Montana border.
All of the pictures I found of the contraption, which is known as a buckrake, are copyrighted. Do a search of "beaverslide buckrake" and you'll see some examples.
Before my time but a "buckrake" here was a big comb sort of thing on the back of a tractor. It would have been used to push the cut grass into a silage pit, and had a trip lever to dump the load. We still had one on the farm, but hay was being dried and baled by that time.
Silage is a thing again, but it's now wilted and baled, then wrapped in plastic to ferment, sauerkraut styles.
Like this?
Stacking Hay in The Big Hole Valley Montana - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-y4hhQmInQ&t=19s)
Pretty neat operation. I assume that is salt or some kind of mineral supplement the guy at the bottom is throwing on each stack before they raise it.
The narrative on the video said it was salt being tossed on the hay.
When I was a kid in Central New York you'd see the old retired dump rakes, which were no longer used. My father baled hay with a New Holland Model 77 baler which was powered by a Wisconsin air cooled motor.
Seeing an almond commercial on TV reminds me: Did you know almonds are one of the big crops that require bees for pollination? Beekeepers bring flatbed trailers full of bees in and rent them to the almond growers. The common method I always saw had them packing 4 hives to a standard 40" X 48" (100 cm X 120 cm) pallet. As I remember they typically load and transport the bees at night. If they pack and transport during the day the foraging bees are lost - they come back and find the family has moved off and left them. From personal experience (My parents moved while I was in college and had not told me yet) that can be kind of distressing. :( For the field bees it is typically fatal.
Did you know for many species the male is generally significantly bigger than he female but for hyenas the female is the larger of the two?
I think your reference is specific to mammals
Birds are typically the same size (my observation). Spiders and many insects the female much bigger.
JJ
Kentucky coffee tree, native to a big chunk of the eastern US, is a stranded species. Only the mastodon could handle those big rough seedpods, which they would indeed eat, then poop out the rock hard seeds, now softened up and ready to germinate. No mastodons, no natural regen, just landscape trees being moved around on trucks and trailers.
JJ,
Are you sure about the birds? Male turkeys are typically much bigger than the hens as are Ostriches and such. The songbirds do seem to be about the same size. Good point about the spiders and bugs.
Tom,
Thanks for the coffee tree info. I knew there was some plant that mastodons had to process the seeds to make them grow. Where are they native and what makes them germinate there? The last I heard the Mastodons were extinct worldwide and not just Kentucky. :D
Most male hawks are smaller than females, as well as, at least, some owls.
I'm not an expert on kct's original range, except for the detail that it included only this state's most southeastern county-Kenosha. I'd expect though, the bulk of the eastern deciduous forest would have been potential home to the tree.
I bought my house from a guy who now lives in the next house. He and his father planted Kentucky Coffee Trees in both yards. Makes a topic of conversation as they don't normally occur here. One grew by my driveway from seed and I let it grow. Starting to regret that as it will soon be a challenge to get down. They have a habit of developing a deep seam where there is a crotch and the wind gets them. It is decent firewood. A few years back a couple blew down in the road and I got as much of it as I could before the county highway dept. hauled it off.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 10, 2023, 11:42:52 AMThanks for the coffee tree info. I knew there was some plant that mastodons had to process the seeds to make them grow. Where are they native and what makes them germinate there? The last I heard the Mastodons were extinct worldwide and not just Kentucky
That would be their main "seed distribution" method. The seeds probably grow (at a much lower germination rate), but if nothing caries the seed away from the original tree, it's got little chance of spreading and multiplying.
It's like NZ has no "nut" bearing trees, possibly because there are no squirrels etc to collect / hide / spread nuts. If trees like that did exist in the past, they died out. Or they never actually reached NZ. So NZ trees rely on birds, insects or wind to spread seeds.
Female Rattlesnakes and Cottonmouths and probably others are larger.
EDIT: LINK (https://reptilecraze.com/are-female-reptiles-bigger-than-males-the-differences/)
I started a bunch of kct's years ago;. Seeds were removed from the pods and placed in scalding hot water. When water had cooled, or next day, seeds were planted in individual pots and germination followed shortly after . Worked well.
Lynn,
The female being larger may be true with most snakes. I know Anacondas and Pythons have large females than the male. That is not a common reptile trait though because with alligators the males get bigger. I guess the general statement we can make is "Male vs Female size differences are specific to each species." :D
Did you know the world's largest rodent is the Capybara in South America? It is a semi-aquatic herbivore. The last site I visited said they can grow from something like 77 to 143 lbs.
Did you know that Nutria are an invasive rodent species from South America that have become very prevalent especially in the Gulf States in the southern USA? They were apparently brought in to the USA in the late 1800s for the fur trade but later when the fur trade dropped off the nutria farms released the animals they could no longer afford to feed and they thrived in the swamps and lowlands especially in places like Louisiana and Mississippi. They are about the size of a racoon (up to about 15 lbs) and are semi aquatic living in and around the water. They are often mistaken for beavers when swimming.
I've read that the state of Maryland underwent a nutria eradication program and they now believe that they were successful. Fur is very low value.
I read that the state of Maryland underwent a Nutria eradication program and that they believe that it was a success. The fur is very low value.
It is now but so is racoon and other furs that used to be pretty pricey. Apparently around 1890 when they brought them up they were pretty profitable then the market dropped out and not worth feeding them.
Now when possum hides become valuable again and the genetic engineers can cross them with the pythons in Fla so they shed their own hides we can all make a lot of money. Possums eat anything including road kill so it will cost hardly anything to feed them and the workers handling them will be happy all the time. Who wouldn't be if you went to work all day and watched the possums smiling at you all the time. :D :D :D
We milled what was probably a champion coffeetree a few years ago. Although mastodons were one method of dispersal (I wasn't there), there were hundreds, or more, sprouts in the plant beds around the tree and house. It looked a lot like black locust sprouting everywhere. Poor germination perhaps but lots of seed! Native Americans also planted it for an, umm, black drink, not coffee. A fine wood, American Mahogany is another common name, also known as the dead tree, for lawns, not so good, it drops lots of trash and looks dead for half the year.
Highly valuable, just call :)
Like black locust, that unusually thin strap of sapwood is one help with the wood id.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/coffeetree~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1558351276)
Since we have a sister thread going about rainbow trout, Did you know rainbow trout are considered invasive species in Yellowstone National Park and fishermen catching one are directed to keep it or kill it before returning it to the waters? Apparently they are very harmful to the native brown trout and maybe other local species.
I don't think the Browns are native either. At least in Michigan I am told that they originated in Germany. If I am not mistaken, Cutthroat Trout are Native in Yellowstone. I will have to get out there and help them with their Rainbow problem. 8)
Browns are from Europe. The problem would be rainbows and cutthroat as they will spawn with each other. Usually you have one or the other, I think the rainbows are more aggressive and take over.
Thanks for the corrections guys. I knew the rainbows were competing with the native trout. I think we should put together a GoFundMe account to send JB out there to help get rid of those pesky rainbows. If he gets to many I think he could host a FF fish fry. :D
I think rainbows got stocked at lot partly because they are easier to propagate in hatcheries.
If you look at a rainbow and a cutthroat, the only difference is the red slashes on the cutthroat's lower jaw. Both are a lot of fun to catch. My favorite to fish for are rainbows.
Rainbows are nice Stan, but how do you feel about unicorns? :) :) :)
Doc,
I assume you meant unicorn fish since they are a subgroup of the Surgeonfishes and that should be right up your alley. :D
Did you know there is such a fish as a unicorn fish? They were common in the Red Sea and I think in the South Pacific. (Ian can probably help verify that) They (most) have a prong on the front of their head. There are smooth unicorn fish that did not have a horn. At least where we were diving Unicorn fish were very wary and it was hard to get a shot on them during daylight hours. During night dives it was like gigging frogs and they would remain motionless when blinded by the light and I would shoot them with a compressed air spear pistol from normal ranges of 4-6 inches. They were very good to eat with flesh similar to a catfish. They had to be skinned and had a horizontal row of ribs down the middle so I would get a fillet above and below the ribs on each side - 4 fillets per fish.
They also have a sharp tang like a backward pointed knife on each side near their tail. I was cleaning one on the pier behind the Pizza Hut one night and it flounced and stabbed me about 3/4" deep in the palm of my hand. It was bleeding badly so I flushed it as good as I could with sea water and stuffed my diver glove full of TP to make a pressure bandage and stopped at an all night Pharmacy near where I dropped off my dive buddy. I showed the wound to the pharmacist who spoke no English and said "Samok, Samok" (Fish in Arabic) and he took me to an aisle and sold me a tube of aerosol bandage named Op-Site that made a breathable plastic bandage. I used it is and it never even got infected. Great stuff. I can't find it here in the USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naso_(fish)
Quote from: doc henderson on March 13, 2023, 08:42:59 PMhow do you feel about unicorns?
Delicious if they are cooked right!! smiley_jester
Serve them with fried fairies on the side and spotted owl gravy and they are very tasty. ;)
Did you know, that we have a lot of wolves in Northern MN? I got a picture of this young one 1/2 mile from the house next to the highway last night. It was out there again this morning. I haven't seen a dead deer in the ditch so I don't know what it's up to, but its behavior is odd.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11286/20230313_181549.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1678819732)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11286/20230313_18154928029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1678819758)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11286/20230313_181550.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1678819749)
How far were you away when you got those pictures. Maybe he's wounded
Walt is looking for a buddy!
Have seen similar pics of wolves on trapping video's, but that is when one leg is in a trap. Maybe the case here??
They sit like that until someone approaches, then they fight the leg trap to get away.
It's about 20-30 yards away, I took the picture from my vehicle on the highway and the wolf is on the edge of the right of way. It's not in a trap, it was just out in the middle of the highway just before I took the picture. This is the third time I've seen what is I assume the same animal, do the same thing in this spot. It runs into the highway from the north side, sees cars and turns around and runs back where it came from🤷
Believe me, Walt was ready to take care of business😂
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11286/20230313_192020.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1678832199)
Walt rocks!!!! Love seeing pictures of that little guy!!
Howard mentioned invasive fish species a few posts ago. We have several here. Last Saturday morning a buddy and I went bass fishing. It was difficult to find the bass beds due to all of the talapia beds (both are spawning now).
This time of the year, we used to cast net talapia to sell to school employees for their "Friday Fish Days". This would help fund our fishing habit for other species. While netting talapia, an invasive species here, we would often catch armored catfish, Plecostomus, another invasive species. The Plecostomus are sold as aquarium fish and now inhabit most of our freshwater bodies. The talapia are cichlids, which are a huge family of fish. Most of them are native to Africa or South America.
If you need invasive plants, aquatic or terrestrial, we have an abundance of those too.
Here in Maine in some lakes have bass as an invasive species(live bait dumped by ignorant fishermen) and they compete with the trout for food. These lakes will have no catch limits for bass, so I encourage you bass fishermen to come and get them out of these lakes.
When my wife was an ag tech at State she ran an experiment for one of the grad students. It was a greenhouse over small "ponds" with sand filled plant benches above the slatted floor. Tilapia... St Peter's fish is another name for them, were the fish in the ponds. Their bottom waste water was pumped up to the plant beds for irrigation and fertilizer and the plant beds cleaned and recycled the water. It was intended for water starved places to provide meat and veggies without using much water. The early learning curve was straight up. Tilapia are tough, more than once while correcting the water she was sure she had killed them all. By the next morning they would be swimming again. I'm pretty much good on tilapia :D.
Since we are talking about invasive fish now: Did you know the Oscars like people raise in their aquariums are a popular fish found in the Everglades? The canals beside the cross Florida roadway is full of them and you see people fishing with cane poles and light spinning tackle for them just like native bream. I think they catch them up to a pound or so routinely and maybe even bigger. The common technique I saw people using was to use a regular lead head jig with about a #4 hook with a chunk of work or crawfish tail or such.
As Caveman mentioned the Plecostomus were also common in the same canals and I saw several that weighed 4-5 lbs I'd guess. On our trip to the Amazon in Ecuador several years ago our guide and crew got out one night with spears and machetes and speared/killed a mess of local fish which included a couple of Plecostomus. They smoked most of the fish over a rough built wooden rack and we munched on them the rest of the day. Our guide boiled and ate the Plecostomus for breakfast. He said they were a preferred fish for pregnant women those who had just given birth because they were high in iron which the women needed to replace.
JMoore's uncle, only a few years older than John and me, was growing lettuce in his garden that was fertilized with the waste form talapia he was growing in a repurposed chemical container. The container had an air lift system and a filter of some sort. He fed the talapia the lettuce from the garden. If I recall correctly, he was able to grow 40 or 50 fish to eating size in the 250 or so gallon containers. We have them in the pond where we keep the logs. I think the folks who raise them in ponds for eating usually put all of the same sex fish in the same water to prevent them from reproducing, overpopulating and stunting growth. Fishpharmer could probably set me straight on some of this.
The wolf in the road reminded me of an incident a few years back. I was driving on a well-used state highway and there was a coyote right next to the road. As I went by it ran off, but looking in the mirror, it came right back as soon as I got by. I turned around and went back and saw that there was a deer carcass in the ditch. It was winter and Wiley was, no doubt, very hungry.
Did you know that larger dogs do not typically live or have as long a working life as smaller ones? A big male German Shepherd or Rottweiler working as a Shtzhund dog or as a working police dog cannot typically work as long or as hard as a smaller female or other smaller species especially in hot weather.
On my last tour in Iraq we had a Brit with a bomb dog - a Springer spaniel. He said the smaller dogs had a much longer working life than a bigger dog especially in the heat we were working in. The dog searched a big truck wanting to enter the camp and alerted on the driver's side box as if it were a covey of quail. The handler took the dog away and returned from a different direction and the dog did the same thing. When they checked the side box it was clear but no doubt the driver had previously had some item in the side box the dog was trained to identify. I don't know if the dogs alerted on Propane or not but most drivers had a small propane stove to make their tea and cook their meals so I wondered if that might have been the source.
Anyway, with a highly trained expensive dog like the bomb dog a longer working life was very desirable.
Did you know the Basenji is an old breed of dogs from Africa that does not bark? As I recall they make sort of a yodel. They are small to medium dogs with a short coat and are very alert and were used as hunting dogs and to help keep rodents out of the village. They are listed as a member of the hound breed but with their short, upright ears they look more like a terrier.
Did you know one way tribesmen and hunters in the Amazon lure Jaguars in to shoot or photograph is by using a pair of roosters staked out near each other? The roosters will crow back and forth and when the jaguar hears them he stalks them and will kill an eat them. Another method is to use a staked out puppy who's cries do the same thing.
On a trip to Peru up the Amazon in March 2010 our guide told us he took a client into the jungle to photograph a jaguar. When he got to the local villages they did not have any extra roosters to sell him so he bought a young puppy and ties it out. IIRC the had trail cameras out to photograph the cat. The first night the puppy chewed through the rope they had him tied out with and they woke up with the puppy back in camp with them. The next night they left him out the Jaguar came by but the puppy wisely kept silent and was not spotted. The happy ending was the client finally fell in love with the puppy, took him to a vet in Peru and got him vaccinated, rabies shots, wormed, etc. and brought him home to the USA.
I wonder if South American dogs can understand North American dogs when they bark at each other?
Did you know all egg laying animals have to have a temporary egg tooth to punch a hole in the egg to escape at birth? This includes birds, snakes/lizards, and alligators/crocodiles. Even egg laying mammals (Monotremes) have to have an egg tooth. I knew about them in birds but had never thought about the fact the other egg layers had to have some way to get out.
Did you know the only native Marsupial in North America is the Opossum - typically called the Virginia Opossum? Apparently there are several species of opossum in South America.
Did you know that when baby marsupials are born they are very premature and must crawl around in the mother's pouch until they find a teat to latch on to? They stay there and mature until they are big enough to leave the pouch. When older they may leave then return to the pouch for warmth and security and to feed. Baby marsupials in species like opossums which have multiple young who do not find a teat to latch on will die.
Did you know it is rumored that possums eat ticks? I tried to verify this rumor and found it is quite common but did not find anywhere that it was based in fact. ::) That's sad because something as ugly as a possum needs all the help he can get to survive. ;)
Another questionable claim is that Guinea Hens eat a lot of ticks. I would not dispute that they would eat them but it's doubtful that they target ticks. Here in Central New York they did a study where they captured song birds with mist nets as part of lime disease research. They looked at Song Sparrows, Northern Cardinals, Eastern Towhees, and a couple other species. IIRC, one of the Song Sparrows had around 50 Ticks on it, mostly on its' head.
Did you know that constrictor type snakes kill by suffocating their prey? The way they do this is they wrap around the prey and squeeze tightly. When the prey breathes out and exhales the snake tightens to take up the slack and the prey cannot inhale ultimately causing death through suffocation.
The same basic technique works if you need to kill a chicken or other fowl without a lot of flopping and squawking and such. Take the chicken in your arms and stroke it gently and calmly till it calms down then place it on the floor and sit on it. After a few minutes you can get up and you will find the chicken has quietly expired and you can go ahead and clean it for Sunday dinner.
I've heard of "sat on a duck" before but not a chicken. smiley_trap_drummer
Did you know that an octopus can change its color and shape to help it hide from its prey and from the predators that would eat it? An octopus hiding in and among rough, brightly colored coral is almost impossible to see.
How does an octopus camouflage itself? (https://www.pressconnects.com/story/news/education/2016/06/01/how-does-octopus-camouflage-itself/85256950/#:~:text=The%20first%20way%20that%20octopuses,to%20match%20the%20plant's%20bumpiness).
Did you know that an octopus will regenerate lost legs? I guess that is part of their defense mechanism. When I was first learning to scuba dive I was diving int he Pacific Ocean off the coast of Okinawa where I was stationed in the USMC. I spotted a basketball sized ball of white in the coral and picked it up and rotated it around trying to figure out what it was. I finally spotted a big eye and realized it was a very large octopus with only 2 legs remaining. The legs were about 3" diameter where they joined the body. Something had eaten the other 6 legs. I put the octopus down and it limped off and pulled itself into a cavity in the coral hopefully to recover. Only after I swam away several minutes later did it dawn on me to question "What ate those legs?"
Getting back to tick eating creatures- I have a friend that used to keep ducks free range in the yard, no problems with ticks in yard as long as the ducks were alive.
When they met their demise on the highway the ticks moved in.
Just sayin'.
After I read about possums eating ticks and that 99% of them are immune to rabies I suffer their existence. After all, what else is going to eat the mice I trap in the vehicles?
the theory I think is that they run a lower body temp.
We had 60 ducks, chickens and a few geese out in Hays. we lived in a development in the country with about 50 houses. We had 5 acres. the neighbors labs would take our ducks and bury then in the owners garden, and the neighbors would leave a message (remember answering machines?) that they had a duck alive in the back of their truck in their garage. "just come get it when you get home".
Did you know most octopi and squids have an ink sac that squirts out ink like a smoke screen to protect the animal when chased by predators? They squirt a cloud of ink which hides them while they go get in a hole in the coral or swim away and the predator loses sight of them momentarily. Usually the ink is black but sometimes it is brown or reddish and some octopi do not even have this feature.
Did you know that a beeline was the straight line bees flew from their water or food source to their hive? Old timers used to find bee hives (and westerners used to find water in the desert) by watching the direction bees flew when leaving a water source. They would walk in that direction as far as they could see the bee and when they lost sight of her they would watch for another one to be sure they were on the right path. My maternal grandfather once told me he used to sprinkle flour on bees at the water hole so he could see them in flight easier. I did not ask but I assume he had a helper dusting more bees for him.
Finding water in the desert was generally done by following the direction the bee was seen coming from instead of where she was going.
Remember the bees would always find and travel to and from the closest water source so the actual distances involved were not necessarily always that far.
Do you know your state tree?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_and_territory_trees
I see several states list the sugar maple as their state tree - probably the most common tree listed. The tulip poplar is another "popular" state tree. I think it was Arkansas who just listed the Pine tree and did not bother to detail which of its 8 native pine trees it was. Correction - it was North Carolina.
Virginia's state tree is the Dogwood.
Yep, that's what the link said too. I see Missouri also lists the flowering dogwood as their state tree too.
I grew up in Fla and the Sabal palm was our state tree but I always wondered if a palm was actually a tree.
Nova Scotia's tree is the red spruce.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 29, 2023, 07:32:32 PMgrew up in Fla and the Sabal palm was our state tree but I always wondered if a palm was actually a tree.
It's not, but the Coconut tree is the National Tree of most smaller pacific Islands. :D
NC is dogwood unless they changed it.
My research says NC state tree has been the pine since 1963. Do you have other references? I just checked State flowers and the State Flower for NC is the flowering dogwood.
ours is the sunflower. Jeff grows them up in the UP. I think @Magicman (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=10011) had a picture of a dogwood once.
To be honest Howard, I cannot remember my third grade teacher's name. Dogwood as NC state flower, I believe you are right :)
North Carolina State Flower (https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-is-the-state-flower-of-north-carolina.html)
That article mentioned the Carolina Lilly as the state wildflower, not one I knew. Looking it up, I have been calling both a carolina and a close look alike both a turk's cap lilly, cool, I'm off the hook for the rest of the day :).
This was a standing joke back when I was stationed in South Dakota:
NOTE: The North Dakota state tree is a telephone pole!
Did you know the Saudi National Bird is the plastic bag? They were thrown around indiscriminately and when one of their Shamalls or strong windstorms occurred they would fill the air. The huge dust devils were like tornados with trash and debris flying up to several hundred yards in the air. In some cases so many plastic bags would blow up against chain link fences it would actually stop enough wind to actually blow them over.
Interesting that the dogwood is the provincial flower of British Columbia, it really gets around!
The state tree of Virginia is the Flowering Dogwood. The state flower of Virginia is the blossom of the Flowering Dogwood.
Mississippi is the Magnolia State so obviously the state tree and flower are the Magnolia Tree and Flower.
State Flowers (https://www.50states.com/tree/mississippi.htm)
Did you know the largest gorge east of the Mississippi is Tallulah Gorge in north Georgia? It is near the North Carolina and Tennessee lines. It is about 2 miles long and over 1,000 feet deep. The State Park there is a popular tourist location with many activities including hiking, swimming, etc.
The Gorge is home to a unique trillium flower found nowhere else. (Note: This plant was first discovered by a botany professor from Auburn University but he made a mistake and excitedly told his "friend" and counterpart at The University of Tennessee who promptly went and registered it and named it after himself. ::))
Tallulah Gorge - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tallulah_Gorge#:~:text=The%20Tallulah%20Gorge%20is%20a%20gorge%20formed%20by,next%20to%20the%20town%20of%20Tallulah%20Falls%2C%20Georgia.)
The woods in this area are loaded with Trillium flowers, white ones, pink ones and dark red ones!
Most people here refer to them as "stink pots", they don't really have a pleasant smell as most flowers do!
When I was a kid the woods had LOTS of White Trilliums and some red too. More recently, they've become scarce, I think because the deer like them.
I always called the White Trillium 'Stinking Benjamin' as a kid. I seem to recall being told it smelled like rotten meat to attract ants and flies for pollination.
JJ
Due to the obvious prompt now for today' topic: Did you know that some plants have flowers with a very foul smelling perfume to attract flies and such to pollinate them? I remember one was called a "corpse flower".
The Corpse Flower: Description, Life Cycle, Facts (treehugger.com) (https://www.treehugger.com/corpse-flower-amorphophallus-titanum-5095935)
I do not remember a trillium being one of those plants but it sounds like some species must have been in that category.
I guess by google 'Stinking Benjamin' was in reference to Red Trillium, but there are whitish ones that stink too..
US Wildflower - Red Trillium, Stinking Benjamin, Red Wakerobin, Wet Dog Trillium, Purple Wakerobin - Trillium erectum (https://uswildflowers.com/detail.php?SName=Trillium%20erectum)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trillium_erectum
I once had a left over toilet, which I planted stinking benjamins in the tank and bowl, and made an ornamental planter on an old forwarding trail left on my old property in Maine. Wish I had a picture of it in the spring when all the flowers popped out.
It also made a nice seat while deer hunting, for the first/last stand at dawn & dusk
JJ
Quote from: KEC on April 02, 2023, 09:24:49 PM
When I was a kid the woods had LOTS of White Trilliums and some red too. More recently, they've become scarce, I think because the deer like them.
Deer weren't in my area until 1890s, they have really played a big part in changing the forest, they like the red oaks big time
QuoteDeer weren't in my area until 1890s,
WhitePineJunkyWhere is your "area" ? Help us by updating your profile so we have an idea of location in mind. thanks
Did you know there are supposedly more deer here in the USA now than when the first settlers arrived? Deer are very adaptable and live well in any small brushy areas in subdivisions and along streams and borders of the big farms.
In Fla the Screwfly was a limiting factor. Any cut or scratch that could get infected with screwworms and weaken the deer to the point predators and disease finished them off pretty soon. Of course I assume the predators were also infected regularly. I don't know if they were better able to survive them or not. Irradicating the screwfly had an immediate effect on helping the deer herd. Also market hunting and poaching kept the numbers low for a while but they are thriving to the point they are a nuisance and auto hazard in many areas.
Do you know the purpose of a turkey's beard? That's okay, scientists don't know either. They speculate it helps a gobbler attract hens. The longer and thicker the beard the older and often healthier the gobbler. They seldom grow to over about 12" because after that they tend to drag the ground and wear off. It is not uncommon to find a gobbler with several beards and even a hen will sometimes have a beard. A hen with beard is often sterile (Like a doe deer with antlers) but now always.
Because the turkey beard drags on the ground and wears off, its length is dependent upon the length of their legs.
Did you know wild turkeys will often gobble at night in the Spring when the moon is full/very bright? Thunder in the afternoon will also make them gobble like crazy at times too.
Did you know that many species of animals, especially prey type that have little to no defense once caught, readily go into shock when captured? Wild turkeys are subject to such when wildlife officials capture them with rocket or cannon nets that make a loud noise. Their overall health has a big effect on this trait too and if they are not in very good health they are much more subject to shock.
I know in two cases I caught cottontail rabbits after I had shot at them and just hit them in the ear with a single shotgun pellet or .22 bullet. The wound was nowhere near fatal or even a serious injury. I shot the rabbits then picked them up and finished killing them then later when I cleaned them I found absolutely no other injury on them to account for their demise. The incidents occurred years apart.
Howard you cause great fear in the animal kingdom, you name is enough to create widespread panic among them! So when you hunt them, they just give up!!! :rifle: lol
or maybe should work on marksmanship :snowball: . :D do you skin them using the sawmill?... :o :o :o :)
Doc,
I know in the case of the single pellet I had deliberately aimed high so as not to mess up the meat. I aimed a little too high and almost missed him (For all intents and purposes it should have been a miss but as K-guy suggested once he realized who the shooter was he just froze and went into the game bag. :D) Both cases were pre-USMC when I learned proper marksmanship skills if that makes any difference.
My wife's first deer was around the corner off the porch. It ran off, I thought it went high. She was unwinding and I said, there's one frozen 5 yards beyond where it was. It was stunned. She dropped that one and I went looking. The other had not made it far. I've seen what you are talking about in prey animals .. and humans all depending on how you define "caught" :D
I am sure and all in fun of course! :)
I know a couple of times I doubled up on deer shooting one and losing sight of it then it jumped up and I shot it again only to walk up to it and find a dead deer and a blood trail leading to a second one near by . Fortunately in both cases I had multiple tags for them. I have a friend who said he shot a buck down 3 times. It was behind a brushy patch, he'd shoot, it would go down then jump back up till the 3rd shot. When he walked around the brush pile there were 3 bucks about the same size piled up there.
And "Caught" for me meant physically in hand and in the game bag not just frozen in terror.
Did you know the scuppernong/muscadine grape (Vitis rotundifolia) is a wild or domesticated grape that grows singular fruits instead of clusters like most grapes? It has a very tough skin that is normally not eaten by humans. You squeeze the fruit till it bursts and spits the sweet juicy center into your mouth, strain out the seeds in the gap between your front teeth if anatomically blessed, spit out the seeds, and chew and swallow the pulp. When cooked into jam/marmalade, the hulls soften and are truly excellent on a hot biscuit. The fruit can grow up to nearly 2" in diameter.
They grow in most of south but here in southern WV we are about 100 miles north of their most extreme range. I used to harvest them along waterways in my boat. I'd find a tree along the bank of a stream with a vine growing in it where the roots had washed away and the tree had fallen into the water. The tree would often be dead but the grape vine survived and you could run the boat under the tree and pick the fruit without having to climb high in a tree. If you caught them at the peak of ripeness you could put the boat under the vine and give a good shake and the fruit would fall into the boat. Warning: Check for cottonmouths and wasp nests before disturbing the vine and especially before driving the boat under it!
My Grandpa used to advise finding a gal anatomically blessed with that gap between the teeth. No muscadines up here to strain the seeds out of, but Grandpa said they could split firewood for you😂
I've had turkeys gobble to the squeak of my clipboard while opening and closing it while cruising timber.
Yes. It takes very little to make them gobble. I've heard them gobble at car horns, dogs barking, cows mooing, hawks screeching, owls hooting (The preferred locator), thunder, crows cawing, woodpeckers calling, doors slamming, etc.
My son and his buddy hunting one all morning. It would gobble every time they would yelp or a cow would moo but would not come. They decided to sneak closer and finally located it - in a farmers pen. :D They'd spent all morning talking to a tame turkey. ;D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 08, 2023, 06:51:43 PM
Yes. It takes very little to make them gobble. I've heard them gobble at car horns, dogs barking, cows mooing, hawks screeching, owls hooting (The preferred locator), thunder, crows cawing, woodpeckers calling, doors slamming, etc.
My son and his buddy hunting one all morning. It would gobble every time they would yelp or a cow would moo but would not come. They decided to sneak closer and finally located it - in a farmers pen. :D They'd spent all morning talking to a tame turkey. ;D
Sort of related reminds me of my rooster that will crow back at ambulance sirens, horns, and coyote howls. In the coyotes aspect of it he's lucky he's locked up at night he's basically ringing the dinner bell on himself lol
Did you know one of the most common scavengers. at least in the South, is the yellowjacket? I had to do a carrion study for one of my wildlife or biology classes while I was at Auburn and most of the class was provided with a dead rat from an anatomy class or such but I brought my own - a fresh killed possum. (I had a good squirrel/coon/possum dog ay the time and figured it would be easier to track the larger carrion.) I think we had to watch it for one hour then come back every 24 hours and report the results. Within 60 seconds of placing the possum in a vacant lot a yellow jacket found it and by the end of the hour there was a steady stream of them coming and going. As I remember fire ants were not far behind the yellowjackets. Maybe I happened to place it close to the yellowjackets den.
The next day my carcass was moved about 50-60 yards but being the experienced tracker I was ;D I was able to track the patches of hair and disturbed grass and leaves and such to the new site. Most of my classmates just reported their rat was gone the next morning which was very normal. I think I was able to find parts of mine for about 3 days till it was totally eaten or removed.
Around here the Fall season seems to have more yellowjackets than any other time of the year. I have to be real careful cleaning Fall catfish or early season deer with the weather is still moderately warm.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 09, 2023, 09:51:31 PMAround here the Fall season seems to have more yellowjackets than any other time of the year. I have to be real careful cleaning Fall catfish or early season deer with the weather is still moderately warm.
In the fall, we call them Meat Bees. Typically, we see them getting into sweet stuff in the spring, like an open soda or beer. Some excitement when the owner takes a swig! :D Then in the summer, not so much activity. BUT come fall, they are in my BBQ checking out any drops of food and might even venture in while I'm cooking! You can't eat outside at the height of Meat Bee season.
Did you know many farmers and ranchers keep a donkey or two in with their sheep and cattle for protection from coyotes and wolves? Donkeys are fierce fighters and hate the canines and will readily attack and chase or kill them if they get near them.
I read an article this morning where a rancher in northern Colorado had brought in a herd of feral donkeys to keep with his cattle after wolves crossed over from Wyoming and killed 8 of his cows. In Wyoming the wolves could be shot on sight but they were protected in Colorado and he could only shoot one in self defense.
I have also heard of people keeping Llamas with their sheep for the the same reason.
I had a customer that kept a few donkeys with his cattle for coyote protection. It worked well until on old jack decided that the new-born calves needed killing. Old jack didn't make it either. :-X
My mule used to chase the cows and bit the tails off a couple of newborn calves. He killed a baby goat or two who were laying in the hallway of the barn but that could have been an accident. Once I got the horse he never bothered anything else. He stayed wherever the horse was all the time and would get very upset if they got separated.
My understanding is that, if you want to protect a flock of sheep with a donkey, you put just one donkey in with the sheep. If you put 2 or more, the donkeys will hang out together and not protect the sheep. A friend of mine was out in Montana and a rancher had a donkey in with the sheep. Some guy who didn't know better went in the pasture and the ranch hands did not warn him. That guy barely got out of there and back over the fence before the donkey got him. He did not see the humor. A little unrelated to this, I once drove by a pasture and there was a big draft horse standing in the rain with a goat standing directly under him. You had to see it to appreciate it.
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/5hY5IoJ4Y58 (https://m.youtube.com/shorts/5hY5IoJ4Y58)
One excited donkey!
KEC,
You may be correct. I have never seen but one donkey in with the sheep around here.
It's all fun and games till Dolly's ears go back. The llamas let me pass but I don't trust those things further than I can throw a llama, which isn't far.
Did you know that Giant Pandas are herbivores and eat almost exclusively bamboo shoots? I know they look like a bear that is an omnivore eating meat, fish, nuts, fruit and plant material they do not eat those items.
IIRC all Pandas belong to China and the government there will sometimes loan them to zoos around the world but they never give up ownership of them. They are very slow breeders and it is very difficult to get them to reproduce.
Did you know that in the western USA bovine herders/collectors were called cowboys and they primarily used ropes to capture the cows. Back in the southeastern USA. primarily Florida, they were called Cow Hunters and their main tool was a whip? This is supposed to be one of the origins for the term Fla or Ga Crackers because of the loud cracking sound their whips made as they chased the wild scrub cows. (Another origin is they cracked their corn to make their grits which was a staple food for them.) The thick brush and trees made it nearly impossible to use a rope effectively.
There is a series of Cracker Westerns which are good reading and shed a lot of light on the terrain, culture and people of the early days in Florida. Pick them up if you get a chance.
It's ironic that you mention that, Howard. I had written something about the Crackers, the Cracker Cattle and the arsenic vats a week or so ago when you or someone wrote about screwflies or screw worms. I deleted it without posting. Some of paternal ancestors were Cracker cattlemen down in what is now Manatee and Hardee Counties.
One of the books worth reading is Taters and Biscuits (it may be Biscuits and Taters). Anyway, it is about the Cracker Cattle and Cracker experience. Several of my relatives are mentioned in it.
Sorry for no topic yesterday - we were traveling.
Seeing the pecan groves/orchards here around Jakes reminds me about them. (BTW - what is the difference between a grove and an orchard? I suspect the one produces fruit or nuts while the other may just be a similar stand of trees.) Do you know how the meat is removed from pecans from the hard outer shell? The common way for people cracking a few under the tree was to simply take two pecans in your hand and squeeze them together. The weaker pecan would break first and you'd pick out the meat and discard the shell.
Most homes in the south had a set of shiny metal crackers like a pair of pliers that were hinged on one end with a flat spot with teeth to hold the shell similar to what people use to crack crab legs. You put the pecan on one end with the nut in the middle and squeeze and break the shell then you remove the meat from the shell. Both these methods tend to break the pecan kernels into small pieces. A set of nut crackers always included a pick to remove the fine pieces of shell or such from between the grooves on the kernel.
A better cracker was shaped like a tube and you placed the pecan in lengthways and adjusted the collar on the tub to the length of the pecan then pulled down on the handle and the shell would split lengthways Properly adjusted the kernels stayed whole length. Some of these crackers used rubber bands to snap and crack the pecan. I don't know what was used on the commercial crackers so if anyone has experience with them please chime in. I do know you could take your pecans to the "Crackers" and they would crack them for you or big producers would sell cracked pecans and you could remove the shells yourself. That was a good job for the kids.
watched a vendor crack pecans with a machine at the flea market in webster Florida
Did you know that commercial pecan growers typically use a machine to harvest the fallen nuts? I saw them in use around Albany Ga that looked a lot like a small Wayne parking lot or sidewalk sweeper. They had wide, low pressure tires so as to not damage the nuts they drove over. I don't know but assume they used a combination of brushes and vacuum to lift the nuts from the ground into thee machine which winnowed off the leaves and small twigs, The nuts went into a big hopper to be emptied when full and the leaves, loose pouter hulls and sticks were thrown out behind the sweeper in a nice neat windrow. I have seen videos of other styles that were much larger and were pulled behind a tractor.
I'm blaming Howard if I get throttled early this month, I've been watching nutcracker videos :D. We've come close on a small walnut cracker.
One of my early public work jobs was in a component shop. The bread and butter contract for that year was the wood parts for a million Texas inertia nutcrackers. They had tooled up. The planer was a 1904, the molder was a Berlin, I think they changed to American in 1917, I bought the multi spindle boring machine at the end of the run, it was a 1912... good shop :D. Anyway it was interesting to do the different machining operations, for the first thousand or so.
We visited a little hazelnut grove, hmm I wonder what an olive is, that's a grove. He was sizing the nuts into ranges with screens. Then processing with a corn sheller modified a little and it dumped into a vertical air duct, the meats dropped thru the column of air and the chaff blew out the top elbow for the chickens to scratch any bits out of. There was still a lot of hand picking.
Turkeys are gobbling out the window.
Or one of the neighbors :D
Ever wonder why squirrels are called squirrels?
Well, according to the book Word and Phrase Origins (https://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Phrase-Origins-Writers-Library/dp/0816059926?dchild=1&keywords=word+and+phrase+origins&qid=1618602309&sr=8-4&linkCode=ll1&tag=rvtravel-e-20&linkId=d9dadf28d691ab1a3d83313c5e97ee6f&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl), here's why: "The Greeks were impressed not so much by this bright-eyed rodent's acrobatic performances in trees as by its bushy tail, which they believed the animal wrapped around it like a parasol when the sun was too strong. So they named the animal skiouros, 'shadow-tail,' from their words for shade, skia, and tail, oura, meaning shadytail, the animal that makes shade with its tail. The allusion was pleasant, poetic, but the road to our world, squirrel, proved difficult. Skiouros became sciurus in Latin and then escureul in French before going through nearly a score of English spellings and becoming the squirrel that we know today."
Lynn,
I can see some romantic Greek Adonis calling his sweetheart his little squirrel and he has to use a term she will appreciate. If he just called her his little "tree rat" the love affair would probably be over. :D :D
Did you know pecan shells are used for various purposes too? In Albany Ga it was often used as mulch in the flower beds as it was readily available, free and plentiful there. I remember seeing it used as media instead of sand for sandblasting special projects. Apparently it does less damage to the equipment and such. I remember seeing ground pecan shell flour in big paper drums at the plywood plant that was my first paying job at 17 y/o. (I already had 12-13 years unpaid experience in a forced apprenticeship for my father but that is another story. ;)). The pecan shell flour was used in a glue mixture and I think it was used on high end plywood that needed extra waterproof/resistance. I still remember a barrel of it turned over on top of our forklift driver. His cage protected him from the weight but the barrel lid came off and he was completely coated in the dark brown dust
Log home restoration companies use a shell media for sandblasting log homes for refinishing.
More pecans - Did you k ow big commercial pecan growers have attachments they hook to their tractors to shake the nuts out of the tree? The ones I have seen have rubber coated arms like a grapple (Which may be all they are) that the wrap loosely around the trunk of the three and shale or sometimes bump the tree using the hydraulics on the front end loader attachment to shake the tree.
Poor farmers and residents with a personal pecan tree or so have to wait for the pecans to naturally fall or send an agile youth (One they could afford to lose) up the tree to shake the tree. Where I grew up pickers were paid by the pound to harvest the fallen nuts but harvesting on shares was also a common practice. In those cases the picker either sold his share or kept them for his family use.
At one time when I was a kid a guy paid me to gather butternuts and dry them. His wife would use them in the batter to make cakes.
I love Butternuts, but sadly they're a dieing breed of trees.
Very few of them left in this area!
I remember back when I was still in the service (USAF), at Christmas time the Russell Womens Democratic Club would make cookies with Butternut chips in them and send out to all of the local GI's stationed around the world!
Oh, at first, I thought we were talking about squash.
Around here they are sometimes called white walnuts. They have a more oblong shape and a thinner shell as I remember. I have a few trees in the front yard.
Do you know the difference between a turtle, a terrapin and a tortoise? That's okay. If you read much about them you will conclude the experts don't either. Apparently it is okay to call all of them turtles as a general category.
The tortoise is a dry land animal and is generally vegetarian. The shell may be more rounded than a water turtle or terrapin who needs to be flatter, have flippers and need to be more designed for easier travel in water. In the southern USA we had gopher tortoises who did have big front flippers and dug and lived in burrows. They live in fairly sandy soil which is easier digging and drains water easier.
Turtles are generally water animals and are generally omnivores. Most articles I read about them talked about salt water turtles but we had Alligator and common snapping turtles, soft-shelled turtles and sliders and cooters that lived in fresh water.
Terrapins apparently are generally mostly aquatic, smaller creatures that live in fresh or brackish water. They are usually omnivores.
We have Box turtles that I often heard called terrapins but the descriptions I read did not seem to include them in this group.
We have 3 salt water, 4 fresh water turtles/terrapin and no tortoise here in Nova Scotia, the most common is the Eastern Painted Turtle. I see them sometimes while canoeing.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/_DSC1284.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1681853193)
I know in Maine we have snapping turtles because my wife caught one by mistake years ago, he weighed somewhere between 5-10 lbs and wasn't very friendly. Is there a species called road turtles that live on asphalt? :D
Did you know that Armadillos must be dumber than possums - especially in South Carolina? When I was stationed at Beaufort SC (Parris Island) in the early 80's you never saw an armadillo. I don't know exactly when they arrived. On our trip back from Jake's at the Sawmill Project last week it seemed like we would see a road killed armadillo every mile or so in SC. I saw way more in the parts of SC than I did in Fla or Ga. Maybe the ones in those states have gotten smarter over the years and the new immigrant armadillos in SC have still not figured out the traffic patterns. ::)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 19, 2023, 11:42:52 AMDid you know that Armadillos must be dumber than possums - especially in South Carolina?[/quote
Not just in Carolina. We're cursed with the stupid things down here too. Luckily their eyesight is pretty poor also.
RT,
You nailed it on the armadillo's eyesight. They should carry a white cane! I have chased them and watched them run into barb wire fences, stumps, trees, etc.
Several years ago we were at a state park above Charleston SC where I saw my first armadillo in SC. We saw one rambling through the pines and I told the other 3 with me to get ready with their cameras and I walked around it and herded it back towards them. It shuffled along till it got between my wife and a young man who traveled all over the world with us and I guess it smelled them then it took off running and ran right into the tire on my wife's parked truck. It jumped back up and ran off through the pines.
Possum on the half shell :)
They sure smell like a possum.
Our "pest" possums are the Australian ones. They are actually really cute and furry. As long as they are tame, they actually make good pets. A wild one is more like the Loony Tunes Taz, a random cloud of fur / claws / teeth. :D
It's a pity as they didn't ask to migrate here where there are no natural predators, but lots of tasty trees and bird eggs to eat. If we could pick them all up and ship them back to Aussie where they are legally protected, it would be a Win / Win.
Quote from: Ianab on April 20, 2023, 06:27:20 AMIf we could pick them all up and ship them back to Aussie where they are legally protected, it would be a Win / Win.
Australian possums are protected? Must have been a slow law day. ::)
In Aussie they are, as usually all they have to eat is Gum trees, and they have to fight off the Dingos, so they are native and protected. not considered a pest.
Here they are "open season", and introducing them to start a "fur trade" goes down as one of the dumbest ideas ever.
It is unfortunate that there are numerous examples of animals being introduced to new areas for the purpose of harvesting them for fur. Nutria from S. America to the US, foxes introduced on islands that decimated bird nesting colonies, American Mink and muskrats to Europe, beaver from N. America to South America, and on and on. Not to mention all the birds and animals unintentionally introduced and non-furbearers intentionally. Introduced house cats, rats, goats, hogs,etc.
Excellent point on introduced invasives. Generally not a good idea! But, did you know one invasive that has been introduced which does not seem to have created a problem (Hey guys, for those of you who live there, correct me if I am wrong) is the introduction of the Arabic camel to Australia. Their soft pads on their feet do not seem to tear up the soil or cause erosion problems. They seem well adapted to the native vegetation and I have not heard of them causing over-grazing problems. They survive well in the very arid areas of the country. In fact, IIRC many Arab countries actually import Australian camels back into Arabic countries.
Reminds me about an article I read somewhere about the truckers in Austrailia that drive long-distance through desolate country pulling 3 trailers and they don't drive slow. They have custom animal gaurds on the front of the tractors for things like camels. One driver reported hitting a whole herd of camels.
Quote from: Don P on April 20, 2023, 05:51:39 AMPossum on the half shel
Pencil Pork. I also believe the armadillo can be a carrier of leprosy.
Yeah your right. I don't know that they have any redeeming characteristics. Had to dispatch one this morning that has been digging in front of the container. I hope he doesn't have kin out there.
Brown trout and ring necked pheasants have been a success for introduced species in the US for the most part. Although Browns are considered invasive in some areas where they have been introduced, if they begin to displace native trouts.
However, there have been so many problems from introduced species, I don't like to even think about it. We've lost so many tree populations to introduced pests, it is sickening. Dutch Elm disease, White pine blister rust, Chestnut blight, Emerald Ash borer, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
KEC,
IIRC those were call land trains in Australia.
Troy,
I had heard Armadillos can carry leprosy. I can attest to the fact that properly prepared they taste like good roast pork.
About the invasives, there was a wealthy man in the Hudson River valley who had many bird boxes on his estate. When he heard that people were introducing House Sparrows he was all in to have them at his place. When free-roaming house cats started getting some of "his" House Sparrows, he ordered his coachman to "take care of" the cats. When the House Sparrows started wreaking havoc with bluebirds, Tree Swallows and Purple Martins he ordered the coachman to take care of the House Sparrows. House Sparrows are still a limiting factor for bluebirds in many areas.
Did you know this is the time of year in WV that people look for and collect morel mushrooms? Around here they are often called Merkles or Muggins.. Their flavor always reminded me of a good fried oyster. Many turkey hunters find them on their way back to their truck or ATV after a morning of turkey hunting. Old timers used to take an onion sack along to collect them. The open mesh of the onion sack allowed them to shake the sack and scatter the mushroom spores to plant more for the next season Wildlife like them too so often the best places to find them are in the thick brush or around a bunch of multi-flora roses where the deer and turkeys have a harder time getting to them.
I found some morels in my back yard under some spruce trees a few years ago. To be safe I got a mushroom expert to look at them and tell me they were safe to eat. I gave him some and sauteed some in butter for myself. They were fine, but not up to what I expected given all the rave reviews.
Over the years I've occasionally gotten a few from my back yard.
I usually picked them and cooked them up, but they just don't seem to have much of a flavor.
So, not really impressed, but I will pick and use them.
Okay - here's a tricky one. ;) Do you know what it means to get a boat up on plane? Basically it means you get up enough speed that the bottom of the boat is just barely skimming the top of the water and only the foot of the motor on powerboats is actually under water and the boat is riding on top of the water rather than pushing the boat through the water. It significantly reduces the drag on the boat because you are riding on top of instead of through the water so you get there faster and use less fuel. I have an attachment on the foot of my motor that looks like a horizontal fin or dolphin tail that is supposed to help me get my boat up on plane much faster.
True- there are two types of hulls, displacement and planning. The fins on the bottom of the motor can be quite helpful as they can add significant adjustment to the motor trim. Some will also help reduce cavitation. I have the fins on my boats and they work well.
Did you know if you plan to dry bamboo for long term use you need to store it out of the sun? Old timers where I grew up in N. Fla used to store it under the house or in a barn attic or such. Bamboo stored in direct sunlight gets vertical crack between the sections which weakens it. Drying in the shade allows the bamboo to dry slowly without cracking.
We used to us long pieces of bamboo/river cane for gig pole, push poles and fishing poles. They make great frog or fish gig poles because they are light weight and very strong. We'd cut the end off right at a joint then insert a rounded stick or dowel that was a tight fit in the hollow section and shape it and put the gig or a cross piece for a push pole on it.
For fishing poles we always wanted a very fine tip on the pole so we just cut the limbs off as close to the pole as we could without damaging the pole.
Did you know little brown Carolina wrens will nest almost anywhere? I have a nest with 5-6 eggs in it now on the front porch in an old coffee creamer can. I had them nest in old hard hats, a plastic bag hanging on a nail and a neighbor kept finding sticks in the pants legs of jeans she left hanging on the clothes line.
Did you know that when turkey hunting if there are a group of gobblers and you shoot one, one or more of the others will sometimes jump on the downed bird while he is flopping? You would think they would all fly/run away as soon as they hear the gunshot but that is not always the case. Apparently it is a dominance thing and others in the flock will take the opportunity to try to "get even" with another in the flock when it is injured. Kind of like dogs jumping on an injured dog I guess.
They see it as an opportunity to become the boss gobbler. Or at least move up a rung or two.
People do that, too🤷
Do you know what "Showing his money" or similar terms means? At least in the southern USA we had many Anoles (often called chameleons) which were small lizards that changed between brown to green colors depending on the background they were perched on. I assume it was territorial or mating behavior for the male lizards to extend their throat muscles out in a red, moon shaped position. The red, round shape was always referred to as the lizards "money" because it looked sort of like a coin.
EDIT-ADD-ON:
I see that area is called the Anole's dewlap.
Anole | lizard | Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/animal/anole)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 23, 2023, 01:09:42 PM
Did you know if you plan to dry bamboo for long term use you need to store it out of the sun? Old timers where I grew up in N. Fla used to store it under the house or in a barn attic or such. Bamboo stored in direct sunlight gets vertical crack between the sections which weakens it. Drying in the shade allows the bamboo to dry slowly without cracking.
We used to us long pieces of bamboo/river cane for gig pole, push poles and fishing poles. They make great frog or fish gig poles because they are light weight and very strong. We'd cut the end off right at a joint then insert a rounded stick or dowel that was a tight fit in the hollow section and shape it and put the gig or a cross piece for a push pole on it.
For fishing poles we always wanted a very fine tip on the pole so we just cut the limbs off as close to the pole as we could without damaging the pole.
I had been taught to cure a bamboo pole for fishing you should always hang it in a barn or some building where it could hang with fishing line attached to the tip with the butt straight down. That way it would cure straight. Always worked well.
JD,
That sounds like a very reasonable suggestion. The pole I am curing now is just one I will use to lift my catfish lines as I motor by them so it does not have to be very straight. I drive by and lift the line to see if it it has a dead or missing a bait or if there is a big sneaky flathead catfish resting on the bottom and not moving the line or shaking the limb the line is tied to.
Did you know that anhingas or cormorants (I can't remember which and may be both) were used in India and other such countries to catch fish for their owners? The owner would capture an Anhinga/Cormorant and put a snug collar around the birds neck that prevented the bird from swallowing the fish he'd catch. The owner would release the bird it would catch fish but could not swallow it so the owner would remove the fish and turn the bird loose to repeat. Obviously eventually he'd have to remove the collar to let the bird eat.
I think Ping's owner cut his food small enough to swallow? It's been awhile since I read it :D.
We went through a crop of developers coming through around the disco times, open big collars, sporting a gold coin on a heavy gold chain. It was the first time I heard the term. Dad had been all the way to Greenville to college so he knew these things. He referred to that as a dewlap.
Which I guess gets back around to "show me the money"
I'm fairly sure that the birds used by fishermen are cormorants. I saw something about that and IIRC it was in Japan.
Now we know why sushi is so expensive. :D
So I understand, the most expensive sushi comes from big Bluefin Tuna. When someone catches one it goes on ice and is dashed to the docks, then to the airport and to Japan. The best ones fetch a LOT of money. No matter that the big fish have bioaccumulated a lot of toxins. They are sold by the pound so a lot of mercury just adds to the value, I guess! :D
They have a tuna tournament every year near here https://www.wedgeporttuna.ca (https://www.wedgeporttuna.ca) .
There is also a museum about it there, the original tournament was a large international affair with people from all over the world entering teams.
Sorry, Charlie. ;) (I assume people still remember those commercials.)
Did you know that most hunting projectiles are designed to spin in flight because spinning helps stabilize the projectile for greater accuracy? Arrows and crossbow bolts typically have 3 fletchings made of feathers or plastic and these are positioned at 120 degree angles on the shaft which make the arrow/bolt spin in flight. Rifle barrels have rifled/angled grooves that makes the bullet spin inside the barrel so they are spinning in flight when they exit. Mini-balls in muzzleloaders have angled grooves that make them spin in and after they leave the barrel. Some muzzleloaders actually have a few rifled grooves although not as many or as sharply grooved as modern hunting rifles.
Did you know that a hogs tusks or tushes are his canine teeth? One article I read said they grow out about 1/4" per month and continue growing his whole life so even if clipped off when a small piglet they will eventually grow out if not continually trimmed off. Also the large bottom tushes are called cutters and are sharpened against the uppers which are called whetters or wettters. In some cases where the tushes are not worn down enough they will completely curl back like a rodents teeth when it does not have enough hard food or such to chew and wear down his teeth.
Did you know that as a rule of thumb of you find an "abandoned" baby wild animal, it is generally best to leave it where it is unless it is in eminent danger? Keep your dogs and cats away as they may attack and harm it.
I read recently where in the case of baby birds if it has feathers it is a fledgling and probably left the nest on its own and is probably learning to fly. If a predator (including your dog or cat) does not see it, it has a good chance of survival. If it has no feathers it probably blew out of its nest which should be nearby. If you can safely do so put it back in the nest. I have tried to put fledglings back in the nest with its 4-5 siblings and just had to whole brood jump out so that did not work as planned.
If you see a baby deer the mother is probably very near and leave it where she parked it and she'll come back for it.
Great Post! So many people think that they are "rescuing" the fawn when in actuality they may be signing its death certificate. Not to mention the doe that is full of milk and is frantically trying to find the fawn.
In most states it is illegal for the average person to keep a wild animal as a pet. There are designated rescue and rehabilitation personnel who are contacted by DNR/Fish and Game when someone reports an injured or abandoned wild animal.
In his late teens my son caught a baby coon and DNR gave him a permit to keep it but they would not do so now. We were given a pet fawn that same summer to raise. She was found next to her road killed mom. We raised her on goat milk from several of our nanny goats but always let her run free as DNR would not give us a permit for her. She would go play with the wild deer and then come see us for a bottle then go back with her friends.
DNR told us deer would nurse fawns from others. I did not believe it at the time but several years later I watched 3 fawns near the back yard nurse 2 different does with no resistance. Now I do believe the does were siblings or mother and daughter but they did nurse each others fawns.
We had a dead adult skunk then caught a baby by it a day or so later but DNR would not give us a permit for it and the local vet would not de-scent it without one.
Did you know a hazard to cattle farmers here in WV is the steep hills? Many of the pastures fence in some real steep hillsides and last year we had a new born calf born on the slope across the road from us and the calf rolled down the hill, under a a high spot in the fence (It is actually a game crossing and a bear shut off my natural gas valve there and cost me a new hot water heater but that is another story) and ended up on the road by my mailbox. When Sampson spotted him and started barking we investigated and brought it over to the yard then, after contacting the owner who could not come at the time, we took it in the ATV cart to the neighbor's pasture and back to its mom. The neighbor said he had a second calf fall on another section of the fence and this morning my feed dealer, who is a big cattle rancher, said he has lost several calves that way.
Did you know that when people say "The woodpeckers are destroying my trees" that in most cases their trees were already sick and dying? In most cases the trees were infected with insect pests or some kind of fungus or such. The woodpeckers hear the insects chewing the dead wood and they are pecking holes in the trees to get the bugs/larva.
I even heard one case where people had woodpeckers pecking holes in their house and finally moved an electric clock and the woodpeckers left. Apparently the clock motor sounded like bugs in the wood.
Did you know the moon phase affects animals activity habits? I am speculating that the full moon tonight was the reason I saw so many cottontail rabbits and deer out this afternoon on my return trip from a sawing job a couple counties away. These are nocturnal animals and will often come out on cloudy days but it was bright and sunny and they were out at least 2 hours before sunset. I can only attribute this activity to the current moon phase.
Did you know a 40 lb springer spaniel can swallow 5 baby rabbits whole and then try to have one more? I found her laying in the grass amond rabbit fur. I went to look around for where they came from and heard a squeak. Turned around to see her grab another one from the nest. Yelled at her to drop it, which she did. Due to the risk of worms we make her swallow hydrogen peroxide and vomit. Thats how I know she ate 5. Poor dog...her day went from average to excellent to not so good.
If you know or think you know where a rabbit nest is, it is best not to go near it. Your dog will come along behind you later, following your scent trail and raid the nest. Today I was mowing the lawn and was trying to see any rabbit nests so I could avoid them as we've been seeing adults daily. A baby rabbit around 6" long flushed out out in front of me and made good his escape.
Did you know wide 4+ lane highways and interstates are a preferred hunting ground for hawks, owls and even some eagles? The wide, mowed area allows them to see small mammals and catch them. Also many small mammals and birds and even some large game animals and such get hit and killed or injured by fast moving vehicles and the raptors can dine on fresh road kill. Unfortunately this is probably also the leading cause of death for many such birds of prey as they are concentrating on their next meal instead of a fast moving Chevy. ::)
Those mowed right of ways also provide ideal grassy habitat for meadow voles, which is preffered prey for many predators. Did you know that vole populations can sometimes reach many hundreds per acre. In winter that can attract a lot of hawks, owls and other predators. I once went to a place that had an "irruption" of meadow voles in winter with a couple of other birders. We drove around the area and saw a Northern Harrier, an American Kestrel, a Red-tailed Hawk, 4 Snowy Owls, 30-40 Short-eared Owls, 1 Long-eared Owl and 87 Rough-legged Hawks. I used to drive trucks from Syracuse, NY to Rochester and back a couple times a week. On one one-way trip I counted 27 Red-tailed Hawks. I did hit a red-tail with a truck once on I-90.
Years ago I was returning from a week of business in Orlando and driving home on the NY Thruway. I saw this Hawk up at about 300' or so and was watching him fly over because he had something wriggling and squirming in his claws and there seemed to be quite a fight going on up there. All of a sudden the 'thing' managed to break loose from the Hawk. That was good for him, but, well, maybe not, and I watched the thing descend and accelerate right smack over the centerline of my driving lane. I knew he would be a dead 'thing' when he met terminal velocity but I might hit him with my windshield, so I took my foot off the gas for a second to avoid that, which I did, or so I thought. I thought the whole episode was kind of once in a lifetime thing, but forgot about it when I stopped at the shop before heading home. I wanted to get my travel paperwork don and start clean on Monday.
As I was leaving to go home, the guys in the shop were just coming back in the building after break time outside. One of the guys said, as he passed me "Nice grille ornament, very realistic" without a thought I said "thanks" but had no idea what he meant and figured my truck needed to be washed. I thought about his comment on the 15 minute drive home and so I got out and looked at my grille before I even took my suitcase out.
There, stuck in the middle of my truck grille and folded between the fins was a grey squirrel, head facing forward with a gruesome look on it. The rest was just a lot of fur and um, mess. Think of the probability of that happening. :D ;D
Mmmm, biscuits-n-gravy. :D
I should have known you would have a recipe. :D
I heard a piece on the radio the other day talking about rats, they went on to talk to one of the raptor rescue people. She was saying a large number of raptors they get are poisoned from eating poisoned rodents.
Mentioning that projectiles are made to spin so they will fly further. Mother nature beat us to it. Tree of heaven and many other seeds have a spiral to their wing that propels them further. Uhh, samara I think is the name of that wing?
Further to Tom's squirrel hood ornament, did you know every well appointed redneck-mobile always had a fox, coon or a couple of squirrel tails tied to the radio antenna? I guess the new cars with the antenna built into the windshield was a secret ploy of the PETA folks to prevent such nefarious activities and protect small, bushy-tailed mammals.
I wonder if Australia had rednecks and if they hung possum tails on their antennas of their "utes"? :D
Are you gonna eat all of that ?
??? ???
Further to our WV Bigfoot thread, did you know that nocturnal animals typically have eyes that shine/glow in the dark while diurnal animals eyes do not shine/glow or reflect light? The shine is a reflection of the light shined on them and a special membrane in their eye makes them shine. Diurnal animals like humans, gorillas, etc. that do not typically get out at night and lack this membrane so they do not shine. Different minerals in the eyes cause different species of eyes to glow different colors.
Based on this if the next picture we see of a Sasquatch, if his eyes are glowing we will know he is a nocturnal creature. If not we know he travels mostly in the daylight.
Did you know that an Alpaca and a Llama are both in the camel family?
Did you know the full moon is Spring and Summer through early Fall seems to trigger the bluegills to go on the beds? At least it did in N. Fla. Night fishing with a fly rod and cork popping bug with rubber legs was very effective starting about 3 days before the full moon.
I wonder if it is true with other fish? We bought a very pregnant Fancy Tail Guppy 12 April just before we left for Jake's workshop. We put her in a nursery net and had our son check on her. She had 30-50 babies the next day. This month's full moon she was obviously gravid (How do you like that fancy term? :D) so we put her back in solitary and she had several babies yesterday but I think she may have eaten them as they are not visible now. ::)
Fish are certainly influenced by the moon phase, even fresh water ones. We have a small freshwater fish here in NZ called the inaunga. They live in most of the streams and rivers, along with some some other Galaxid species. When there is a king tide they move down to the river mouth and spawn in the vegetation in the lower reaches / estuary area when the tide is at it's peak. The eggs stick to the grass etc as the tide drops and are left there for the next month, away from any water based predators. Next king tide the water comes up again, the eggs hatch, and the new fry wash out to sea with the tide. They grow a bit in the ocean, then come back up the river as whitebait, almost transparent and only about an inch long. They then live in the river until it's time to spawn again. Rinse and repeat.
Did you know that snakes and some lizards taste the air using an organ on their tongue called a Jacobson's Organ? That is why they are constantly flicking their tongue out to taste the air. Pit vipers bite their prey and inject it with venom then trail the prey till they find and swallow it. A Komodo dragon bites its prey and the nasty bacteria in his mouth causes infection which eventually kills it. The dragon trails it till he finds it. By then other dragons may have come across the trail and compete for the meal.
Did you know they have snakes in Mongolia? There are a couple of species of adders and vipers and several constrictors. They are not over about 3' long IIRC. They are not as plentiful as places like the jungle or more temperate regions but it is pretty amazing they can survive the brutal winters at all IMHO.
Did you know there are species of snakes that fly? Well actually they glide from high points in the trees and such. I read where some can glide up to 100 meters at a time.
18 Chrysopelea (Flying Snakes) Facts - Fact Animal (https://factanimal.com/chrysopelea/)
I know of some that get elected!! :D
Did you know that most reptiles do no parenting and do nothing to protect their eggs or young once the eggs are laid?
There are a few exceptions such as mother alligators and crocodiles that aggressively protect and defend their nest, eggs and newly hatched young.
King cobras actually build a nest by raking together leaves and grass and lay the eggs and stay to protect the eggs. This includes both parents. Some snakes carry their eggs in their bodies until they hatch however once hatched they have little to do to protect them. Newly hatched snakes are basically fully capable of protecting themselves including possessing venom for venomous species.
Did you know there are animals that eat turtles and are capable of breaking the shell to do so?
Alligators and crocodiles have a strong enough bite to crush the shell of fresh water turtles. Some of them don't like the taste of the shell and let the turtles swim undisturbed around them.
Honey badgers in Africa have a strong enough bite to puncture the shell and eat turtles they find.
Jaguars in South America have a strong enough bite to crush the shell of turtles and will eat them.
Some large birds such as eagles can/will pick up a turtle and fly high enough to drop it so that the fall breaks the shell allowing the eagle to eat the meat of the turtle.
Did you know male mosquitos do not transmit diseases? They eat only nectar so they do not bite people or animals. Female mosquitos need the protein from blood for the eggs to form/hatch so they bite people and animals. In doing so they pass diseases from the first to later victims.
Further to a sister thread here: Did you know that a Fisher Cat is not a cat? He is a member of the weasel family and not a feline. The reference says he eats mostly eats small mammals like snowshoe hares but is also one of the few animals to be able to kill and feed on porcupines. Sounds like a tough little animal!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher_(animal)
My wife is wearing the last one I caught on her head in the winter. Sent it to a furrier in Duluth mn to be made.
Did you know that many insects have an affinity or aversion to light? Around here flies are bad to bother the cows and my horse in the bright sunlight so my horse stays in the stable during brightest parts of the day and they do not follow him in.
On the flip side, when I lived in NC I remember the back 6' or so of my yard was in heavy shade and in the summer months when I mowed it, the biting deer flies would be so bad you could not tolerate them and you just about had to have a beekeepers head net on to work in that area. Out in the sunshine a couple feet away they would not bother you.
?Iconic? bird was feared extinct for decades ? until appearing on Louisiana trail cam (https://www.yahoo.com/news/iconic-bird-feared-extinct-decades-164405962.html)
Did you know there are still credible sightings of the Ivory Billed Woodpecker? It was thought to be extinct then there were sightings and photos of a male bird in a swamp in Arkansas now it appears there have been sightings in Louisiana. Lets all keep our fingers crossed that the bird makes it through all of the habitat and other challenges it faces.
I always thought they tasted a lot like chicken. ::)
Lynn,
I have shared this before but when I was 7-8 y/o I went hunting with my paternal grandfather in Dixie County Fla and he took us to a place called Pumpkin Swamp. While we were stalking along a big woodpecker flew past and Grandpa changed to a smaller shot load and said "Woodpeckers are good eating but you don't seen none of them old big ones like you used to." Fast forward about 14-15 years and in one of my wildlife biology classes as a college student at AU I did a research paper and picked the Ivory-billed Woodpecker for my topic. During my research at the time (1976) they were thought to be extinct but they said one of the last known colonies of them had been reported in Pumpkin Swamp in Dixie County Fla so no doubt my grandfather and his family helped contribute to their demise.
Did you know there is a creature called a wolf spider? It is a large solitary hunter that ambushes or chases down its prey. The article below says the body can be over 1-1/3" in diameter. The legs can be several inches long. Some live in burrows and pounce on passing prey. They rarely spin any kind of web and they carry their egg sacs on their bodies with them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_spider
We got 'em here. Buddy of mine got nailed by one and tried to ignore it. Spent 10 days in the hospital and nearly didn't come out of it.
Many wolf spiders here. Have a couple that hangout in the roof on the chicken barn. Seen two fight to the death, once in a life time event to witness I'd suspect. They get about 1.5" dia
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/72879/2E7393F1-F540-4575-8A71-BDEF1B15E3BE.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1684712287)
Tom,
Was your buddy certain he was bitten by a wolf spider? I never heard of anyone actually being bitten by one. They are big and scary looking but I never really heard of them being particularly aggressive. Any chance he was bitten by a black widow or brown recluse instead?
Howard, you are in fact correct. It was a brown recluse. I was mistaken. I got my spiders mixed up, but yes we have both here. I have rolled a few logs and found some of those Wolf Spiders while working and they really get one's attention, but they are in fact pretty shy, despite the way they look which is anything but 'shy'.
Thanks for the clarification. Actually as I understand all spiders are pretty shy. Even the bites from brown recluses and black widows I think are normally defensive when someone mashes them by mistake or such. Most black widow bites occurred in outdoor toilets when someone sat on or mashed them. I think brown recluse bites are more often in sheds or such or from one hiding in a shoe or such.
Did your friend ever say how and where he was bitten?
Most of the wolf spiders I see are tall grass and occur when I am mowing or such.
I think the main problem with spider bites isn't actually venom, apart for the actual venomous spiders (looking at you Australia). But the fact that the venom they do have kills and basically digests a small spot of flesh around the bite spot. Now you have a patch of dead flesh (necrosis) under the skin, and that can get infected and spread, and that can certainly kill you (gangrene). It relates back to how the hunt, where they bite their small prey, paralyse them, and predigest them. If they happen to do that to your toe, a minor bite can end up serious over time.
We have various Wolf Spiders here, but apart from their scary size they are considered harmless.
Another interesting group is the "Fishing" spiders. They are generally found near water, and usually hunt by using the water surface like a web. They can feel an insect landing on it and run across the surface tension to capture it. Some of them will also catch small fish / tadpoles / aquatic insects, and one local species can live underwater for 30 mins via air bubbles trapped in it's hairs. They will run and hide underwater to escape predators / curious humans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolomedes_dondalei
The most common locally is probably the nursery web spider. It's a pretty large spider, and only spins web to make a nursery for it's young. Although they will hunt over water, they don't need it, and are quite happy living (and nesting) in peoples gardens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolomedes_minor
Various fishing spiders are found all over the World, but most are nocturnal, so seldom seen.
I don't know what it was, but I didn't want to find out. Twenty years ago now, we were vacationing on Manasota Key, southwest Florida. In a round vacation rental. Underneath was a bedroom on one side and a laundry room on the other. Stairs down but also went to the garage.
Anyhow, did a load of laundry and went down at night to put in the dryer. As I'm about to go through the door into the laundry room, I look up. There is a spider on the wall above about 5 inches in diameter with thick legs.
I didn't want him dropping on me. I paused, slowly took off one flip-flop and raised it up to smack him. He saw me when I was about 2 feet away and ran off in the blink of an eye.
I never went down there again after dark!
In December 2008 we did a private boat tour in the Amazon in Ecuador at Cuya Beuno Reserve (Where several of the Naked and Afraid Episodes were filmed). We stayed at a lodge the first couple nights, left a week or so then stayed again on our return. The lodges were elevated above the normal high water mark and made of rough sawed local lumber and palm thatch roof. Nothing was sealed and the first 2 nights we found thousands of bugs any time we got out from under our bed nets at night. (On our second stay we moved the bed and put our tent in the lodge to avoid the bugs.) In the second lodge we found a big mother tarantula several inches in diameter, a blonde juvenile a couple inches in diameter and dozens of not hundreds of newly hatched baby tarantulas. We left them all alone to provide pes control and there were very few bugs in that hootch. I'd much rather have had the tarantulas than the bugs.
I keep firewood in the basement and, as you guys know, in spite of taking measures to minimize bringing in bugs, many get in. I see spiders and leave them alone to help eat the bugs; I think it helps. At one time I read that in China they sometimes leave strips of tall grass on the edge of crop fields. The spiders make webs in the grass and catch and eat pest bugs/insects.
We touched on this earlier but did you know the wolf spider and some other species carry their egg sac with them? The ones I have seen on our wolf spiders look like a light brown, half inch diameter fuzzy cotton ball. If you happen to break one open you may find many dozens of mite sized spiders running around. I assume the mother spider carries the sac so she can defend the eggs until they hatch and leave on their own.
Many Wolf Spiders around here. I don't bother them or the black snakes.
Did you know bats sleep upside down because they cannot take flight from an upright position like a bird can do? By sleeping upside down they can simply let go of their perch and when they start falling it gives them the momentum to start their flight.
Did you know that bats have a special one way valve in their arteries that allows them to sleep head down? Without this feature the blood would rush to their head and they would eventually pass out.
we have them in our veins.
That is why I was surprised to read they are in the arteries of a bat.
Did you know that bats normally relieve themselves during flight? When you are hanging upside down with your anus on top that is a pretty good idea! Sometimes one might roost upright temporarily and dump a load but normally it is easier to just make an in-flight bombing run. ::)
They regularly leave their droppings below where they roost here. Turds a little smaller than chicken feed.
Here, it's most always like Lynn mentioned, but it does make sense to let it go inflight.
Birds do that too, take a look at some of the cars and trucks out there.
I think we mentioned this earlier in this thread but did you know birds typically relieve themselves as soon as they leave the roost if they have been there any length of time? This lightens the load to make it easier to take flight. It is also a good reason not to get under a bunch of roosting birds and make any loud noises or do anything else to startle them. ::)
Since we're on the subject of the toilet habits of birds and critters, many birds remove the fecal sacs of their nestlings and carry it away from the nest. Some birds eat the fecal sacs (the excrement is in a little membrane sac to facilitate removal) though many carry it away. Some will land on a tree branch and set it on the branch, most just drop it from the air. Common Grackles like to carry them off and drop them in water. I knew a guy who had spruce trees in his yard that grackles like to nest in and the grackles were dropping the fecal sacs in his swimming pool. He'd be out there with a .22 rifle shooting grackles with many nearby houses. A school principal, no less. I've seen robins eat the fecal sacks of their young. Many adult birds get lax about removing the sacs just before the young leave the nest.
Did you know there is a bird called a Shrike that catches and stores its prey on spikes for future use? It will store insects and grubs and such on barbed wire fences and thorns from hawthorns, cactus, Spanish bayonet, etc.
https://blog.nature.org/2020/01/27/shrikes-meet-the-bird-that-impales-prey-on-spikes/
We see them here once in a while, commonly called the Butcherbird.
It's common to see their prey on Locust and Thornapple thorns, even barbed wire fences.
Yes, they are called a butcherbird. I think they will even hang baby birds and the article mentioned small lizards being impaled and left on fences and such.
There are 2 kinds of shrikes in Eastern North America, Northern Shrike and Loggerhead Shrike. In New York if you see one in the winter it will be a Northern Shrike, they nest in Canada. Loggerheads used to nest in New York and Chucks' area (St. Lawrence River Valley and St. Lawrence County) is one of their last known nesting areas. Loggerheads are doing OK in some southern states. One possible reason for their dissappearance is that they say that when baby loggerheads leave the nest they like to sit in the road and wait to be fed. Chucks' area has pastures with rock outcrops and hawthorn trees, which is favored nesting habitat. Chuck, I would really appreciate it if you would let me know if you see any shrikes in the next couple of months.
Will do, KEC.
Haven't seen any real recently though.
Thanks, Chuck. Lunch is on me at the diner of your choice if you can put me onto a Loggerhead Shrike in June or July.
Ok, but no guarantees, remember they're shy AND not plentiful
Did you know that some birds have been proven to use tools? Some finches use small twigs or thorns to reach into crevices and holes to pull grubs out to the edge where they can reach them with their short beaks and tongues. Some even bent the twigs to make a sort of hook. Crows have been proven to drop hard nuts on the roadway for cars to run over and crack them. Income cases they would even land and move the nuts over if not in the correct path path of the passing cars. Gulls and other sea birds have been proven to drop shellfish on to rocks break them open.
In the lab birds in cages were given a straight and a bent wire with food out of reach so they quickly learned to use the crooked wire to move the food into reach. In one case they forgot to include a bent wire and placed 2 straight wires. The birds simply bent the wire to make their own hook to get the food.
A couple of clips about Kea. A species of alpine parrot.
The parrots that understand probabilities - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj718A7_s4A)
That's One Smart Bird | Animal All-Stars - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W7hEUGtv4U)
So not just tool use, but also manipulating simple mechanisms, predicting probabilities and learning to predict outcomes based on which human is conducting the test.
Kea aren't common and only live in the Mts of the South Island. But they aren't hard to find. Just stop at any layoff in the Mts and some will come and see what you have that's worth stealing. :D
This is Lil practising her wildlife photography skills with a wild kea on the road to Milford Sound.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/IMG_0252.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1685427617)
So when you see those amazing cellphone pictures of wildlife, it's not always as it seems. The subject may just have been trying to steal the camera. We left when it flew onto the car roof and started eyeing up the radio antenna.
A bit further up the road and we got to some road works (in the snow) and a stop go sign man. His day seemed to be remove the road cone, shoo a kea bird off the road, and Then turn his sign to go. After we pass he puts the road cone back, and kea walks back into place beside it. :D
Ian,
That picture of Lil photographing the Kea reminded me of the time 5-6 years ago we went to a small zoo in a park at Roanoke Va and they had a walk-in aviary. You'd walk through a hanging strip type door and inside the aviary were several species of exotic birds. One was some kind of Egyptian quail IIRC and my wife was watching it and commented to our then 6-7 y/o granddaughter Molly "That bird looks like he is looking for something."
With no hesitation Molly immediately and sagely replied "Yeah, the way out."
Neat videos Ian. I loved watching the kea figure out how to get the peanut out of the cage.
Did you know that that some birds have figured out that they can drop bread crumbs or such in the water to attract fish which they then catch? Pretty long range planning for a pea brained critter isn't it?
One of our road trips we stopped at a small zoo like that, with some walk in aviaries.
One had a large parrot (cockatoo I think), that would sit by the entrance and climb on any friendly looking visitor. Lady in front of us had a kid in a pushchair, and the parrot jumped onto the push handle of the chair and was just sitting there. Lady didn't really seem to be a fan of birds and didn't know what to do. Lil stepped up and offered the bird her arm, which it hopped on, climbed to her shoulder and then rode through the aviary to the exit. Once there it hopped off and flew back to the entrance to find a new ride.
That seemed to be how it filled in it's day. :D
Did you know that there is a species of freshwater snapping turtle native to Australia that can breathe through its anus? Now that's different!
Critically Endangered Snapping Turtles Found in New Australian Habitat (https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/critically-endangered-snapping-turtles-found-120500851.html)
"Down Under", go figure! LOL ;D :D
Now what an ability to have. Well actually I don't know, there are large groups of people I suspect use the same breathing apparatus. A very large percentage of those in the U.S. Congress seem to have the gift.
Did you know castrating a male deer will affect it's antler growth in several ways depending upon the age of the deer at the time and whether he had antlers and at what stage they were at. Here is info from a Virginia.gov site:
"Because the testosterone plays such an important part of the antler cycle, castration in deer can have a profound effect on antlers. If a male fawn is castrated early, he will never grow pedicels or antlers. If a deer is in hard antler and is castrated, he will lose his antlers normally and grow a new set, which will never shed their velvet. If a deer is in velvet and is castrated, he will never shed his velvet or lose his antlers."
This is also an explanation of some very strange non-typical bucks people have seen or harvested. If the buck was neutered through an accident his subsequent antler growth will be affected depending on what stage of antler growth he was at the time of the accident.
https://dwr.virginia.gov/blog/all-about-antlers/#:~:text=If%20a%20male%20fawn%20is,velvet%20or%20lose%20his%20antlers.
On my Uncle's ranch in NE Wyoming, he pointed out to me what he referred to as "stags", bucks that had somehow lost their testicles and grew antlers that they never lost, and stayed in velvet.
I was struck by the fact that there were a few of them around- they aren't as rare as you would think. It also added another reason to never try out for that, "Naked and Afraid" show. It's a dangerous world out there, fellas😁
Yeah, just ask EJ Synder about his experiences in the Amazon. :o
BB,
I guess jumping barbed wire fences at your uncle's ranch in Wyoming is riskier than one would think too. ::)
That's what I'm thinking. Maybe that's why the pronghorns crawl underneath, instead😁
Did you know one often used technique to harvest a crop from a large field is to drive to the center of the field and start harvesting in circles progressively from the center to the outer edges? This may be cutting and baling hay, combining wheat, etc. The rationale for this practice is it helps protect any wildlife (usually small animals like skunks, possums, groundhogs, rabbits, etc.) that may be hiding in the field. If harvesting from outside in the animals are driven to the center where they are often hurt or killed by the farm equipment. Starting in the middle and working your way outward helps drive the animals out of the field into the adjacent better covered areas where they can escape.
Hadn't heard anything like that before, and never witnessed a crop being harvested "inside-out". Back in the day when harvesting crops, never witnessed a concentration of critters and such in the center.
Seems one would be driving over the crops getting to the middle and driving out with the yield, losing (or loosing as some like to spell it) a lot of money.
But we hear about different things like this here on the FF. ::) 8)
As I recall the process is to drive to the center while harvesting then start the outward concentric circles. It is easy when cutting hay or any crop where a wagon is towed directly behind the tractor/combine.
A friend from Minnesota said he only ate whole kernel corn and never cream style corn. He said when they harvested in concentric circles to the middle the critters got trapped in the middle and the ones that got caught in the equipment and that corn was used to make the cream style corn.
Now I admit I was not there at the corn harvest or processing center and people have lied to me in the past but I have no reason to doubt the veracity of his tale. ;)
Maybe another WV-Sawmiller-ism ?? :D :D ;D
Cream style Possum anyone? musteat_1 :D
Did you know early season hay cutting is a greater risk to the fawn crop than later cutting? Very young fawns are often parked in the tall grass by their mothers and they will hold tight until they are killed or injured by the tractors and haying equipment. A few weeks later they will be older and will be much more likely to jump up and run when such equipment get s close.
I have a neighbor who often has someone ride an ATV in front to the tractor doing the mowing. On the front of the ATV he has a long piece of PVC pipe with short pieces of chain dangling down toughing/dragging the ground. As the ATV rides through the tall grass any fawn "tickled" by the chains will jump up and run which gets them out of the path of the mower and protects them.
I almost any large hayfield in my area if you drive by shortly after the hay has been cut and while it is drying you will see buzzards and crows circling the fields. They are feeding on fawns and snakes and such killed by the mowers.
The mowing machine is a double-edged sword. On one hand, it maintains grassland habitat for critters and birds. On the other hand it is rough on birds and critters that are too small to get out of the path of the mower. Many birds nests get destroyed. The lucky birds manage to raise young before mowing. Many conservationists want the farmers to delay mowing 'till later in the summer but by then the hay is no good. Many farmers would like to not mow the critters, but there is no way to do it and harvest quality, high protein and palatable hay and get a second cutting. If someone has a field and just wants to mow it and leave the cut grass to keep it from growing into brush, then late mowing would be great.
Mowing from the center outward and using lead tickler vehicles/equipment can help but stationary bird nests, slow moving turtles and snakes and such are still going to be toast. No conscientious farmer wants to hurt them and doing so can harm the equipment and quality of the hay but they have to remain profitable. As mentioned above the farmers are creating and maintaining this habitat but it does come at a price.
Yes, I've had the misfortune of hitting a fawn or two while cutting hay and it is something that truly bothers me. You can be super watchful and still have it happen. Agee thought that if you wait for the fawns to be more mobile you have missed the opportunity for premium hay.
I have some pastures to cut (not haying) just to keep them healthy and weed free but have the luxury of waiting until later in the month so it will be less likely to hit one.
I've never tried cutting fields from the inside out but I can confirm that when working outside in the last few passes will congregate an awful lot of field mice :D
Yes, the avian and terrestrial predators eat well when the Meadow Voles are deprived of their protective cover when you take the hay off the fields. When I was a kid we were collecting the bales of hay and loading them on wagons when one of my brothers rolled over a bale to pick it up by the twine and there was a vole under it. Deprived of a place to hide the vole ran up his pantleg whereupon a new dance jig was invented. Next thing he did was to drop his pants, then his underwear, at which point the vole leaped out. You guys are all now sworn to secrecy not to repeat this story as my brother has never been able to see the humor in it. And I'm to keep on good terms with family.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 03, 2023, 03:08:27 PM
Did you know early season hay cutting is a greater risk to the fawn crop than later cutting? Very young fawns are often parked in the tall grass by their mothers and they will hold tight until they are killed or injured by the tractors and haying equipment. A few weeks later they will be older and will be much more likely to jump up and run when such equipment get s close.
yes it is!
One of my brothers leases his fields to a local farmer, and after seeing a couple of fawns mangled by their disc mowers has laid down the law to them.
If you can't cut before the 15th of May, you will have to wait until after the 4th of July!
This gives the fawns a little time to mature, and so far it has been working well!
I can relate to the vole story from a couple of incidents.
My older helper and I were finishing up work on a monument job in a local cemetery and were loading our tools. I was standing beside our running Chevy p/u and noticed something running up my britches leg. I'd vigorously shake my leg but noting fell out. I'd put my leg down and see the rippling motion going up again. Finally we realized I was standing next to the muffler and the Put Put Put was shaking my jeans legs. ::)
More appropriate was the time my wife stepped out on the porch and when she opened the screen door she hit Ugly, our old Tortoise shell cat, who was walking by with a live/lively fresh caught chipmunk in her mouth. It startled her and she dropped Alvin who immediately took cover in the dark opening of my wife's pants legs. She was doing a war dance out there while I was envisioning Ray Stevens Mississippi Squirrel Revival. Anyway the chipmunk finally fell out and she accidentally stepped on him causing the poor rodents early departure from planet Earth. :(
Fawns at my place in central Georgia were born a couple days ago. Moms are still coming to the feeder but are not pregnant anymore. They are leaving fawns in the woods for now. In a week or two mom will bring them to the feeder and introduce them. I have a group I've been watching for at least 3 years, Grandma, 2 daughters, 2 granddaughters. The grandma and daughters were the pregnant ones so I'm looking forward to 4-5 offspring. Graandma was big, she had twins last 2 years.
Did you know watching animals is a good way to spot other animals? It is common when watching an old doe or fawn feeding around your stand to see them suddenly raise their head and stare at something in the distance. If you look where they are you may see another deer (Hopefully a big buck), a turkey or even a squirrel. If the animal does not perceive a threat it will go back to feeding but if it is a predator or competition it may keep watching or react in other ways. We have talked before how squirrels and other small game will often alert you to other animals int he area. Even farm animals will tell you when something is moving. I've had cows point out rabbit to me and my horse and mule used to identify deer or such in the pasture or wood line.
I read recently where a criminal running from the police, I think it was in NC, and the man abandoned the get-away car and ran into a nearby pasture but the cows all ran towards him and the police saw and captured him. For all we know the cows might have thought it was the farmer bringing them more feed. :D
That was on the facebook of the local feed mill here, those cows got sweet feed that night :D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 04, 2023, 08:46:51 PMI read recently where a criminal running from the police, I think it was in NC, and the man abandoned the get-away car and ran into a nearby pasture but the cows all ran towards him and the police saw and captured him. For all we know the cows might have thought it was the farmer bringing them more fee
I did see that on the news. Cows do act like that for sure. If something strange (but not threatening) comes into (or even near) their paddock, they will all wander over the see what the heck is going on. If it's a mob of 18 month heifers, they are even more curious.
It can be hilarious if you take someone that doesn't know cattle through a paddock of them. By the time you get to the gate on the other side, you have a semicircle of cows looking at you from about 10ft away. :D
I can just imagine the guy trying to hide in a ditch and 100 heifers gathering around. Whispering "Shhoo.. Shoo.... you're going to blow my cover...." That would just attract more of them. :D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 02, 2023, 10:55:51 PMA friend from Minnesota said he only ate whole kernel corn and never cream style corn. He said when they harvested in concentric circles to the middle the critters got trapped in the middle and the ones that got caught in the equipment and that corn was used to make the cream style corn.
Extra Protein!!! Yum smiley_jester
I haven't heard one in many years nor heard anyone talk about them, but when I was a kid you could buy a horn to put on a car, truck, tractor, etc. and it immitated a bull calling in his harem. The cows out in the pasture would come running to that sound like firemen to a house fire. You did not want to be in their way. Must see to believe.
KEC
I did it in field on exercise with the army using a bullhorn at night. I don't know who was more upset the recruit trainees I was trying run them into or the cows when the trainees started firing blanks at them.
Did you know that a catfish, especially channel catfish or blue catfish, will often roll repeatedly when hooked? It is common when checking set hooks left overnight to find a catfish on the line and find the line has been twisted in a tight knot and in some cases you will find the line has been untwisted when the fish twisted in the right (wrong?) direction. Once they start twisting they apparently twist in the same direction and sometimes you will just find the line tightly twisted around a bare hook where the fish successfully escaped. Many fishermen actually use a swivel to prevent this from happening.
IMHO this twisting is more common with the smaller fish than the very large ones which is one of the reasons I don't go to the extra trouble and expense of using swivels.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3636.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1686100908)
Here is a good example of what I was describing in the previous post. While baiting up and checking catfish lines this afternoon I found this small (2-3 lb) channel catfish had gotten hooked on my line sometime today and had twisted well over a foot of length out of the line. The sinker in front of his mouth is typically about 6-8 inches above the hook. He had twisted so much it is touching the hook. In fact he had practically twisted himself up out of the water. If he had only been hooked in the fleshy part of his lip there is a good chance he would have widened the hole in his lip and escaped.
Pretty basic but did you know catfish are predators? Many people think of them as scum sucking bottom feeders (No - that is lawyers) but they are very much a predatory fish and will bite a live bait or an artificial lure that mimics a live bait. Some catfish, such as flatheads, will almost never eat anything except a live bait. Others, like channel and blue catfish, will eat some pretty disgusting dead baits.
,
Until I moved to WV we always used cut bait, shrimp, or soap for catfish bait. Mostly this was because live bait was illegal on set hooks in my states but in other areas and especially here in WV live bait was legal on set hooks and I immediately found that channel and blue cats would readily attack live bream used for bait.
When snakeheads first showed up in the Potomac River, there was talk that they would destroy the ecosystem. I was talking to a fisheries biologist at a conference and told him that I didn't think there would be that much impact. The snakehead would just be another snack for a blue cat. I once caught a 3 pound channel cat with a nice moon shaped scar mid body where something had just tried to eat him. My local fishing hole gives up 70 pound blues fairly regularly. I know of a few that topped 100 including the current world record of 143 pounds. They are eating machines.
Wud
Wuddy,
The first couple I gave a mess of fish to yesterday the lady said she grew up along the Potomac and they used to catch big blue cats out of there. She said she did not think you could eat them where she was from now. She said her mom was a small lady and would duct tape the rod to her hand and her dad would tie her to the boat so they did not pull the rod out of her hand or pull her out of the boat. Now I know that sounds like a little exaggeration but she was talking about fishing and we all know people would never lie when talking about fishing. :D
I catch an occasional blue cat but would rather not. We have a limit of 2 and they have to be 24" long to keep them here in WV and I'd rather not fool with them.
Did you know one technique to catch gar is to take a big eyed hook and thread a big piece of nylon cord maybe 18" long through the middle and unravel it so the tiny fibers are fuzzed out everywhere? Then use a chunk of cut bait and set a float 1-2 feet deep and pitch it at the mouth of where an oxbow lake or such joins the river. You can often see gars feeding or broaching the surface where they are plentiful. The fish gars have a real bony mouth and it is hard to set a hook on them. They have hundreds of tiny sharp teeth and when they grab the bait they will get the line tangled in those tiny teeth. When you reel him in you will likely have the hook sticking outside his mouth and just be tangled in the line. Where it is legal and safe to do a .22 rifle or pistol is a handy tool to get them in especially where you are catching 50 lb and larger gars. Pulling one that big in the boat can be a real experience when he starts flopping around and open tackle boxes and coolers start flying everywhere. Plan ahead what to do with them as I remember bringing home a 4' gar for my 6-7 y/o son to show his buddy how pretty its eye was. All that was fine but afterwards I had to dig a long ditch in the garden to get rid of him.
Where I grew up we did not eat gars and considered them a trash fish although I cut some up for bait and the big boneless roll of a backstrap on a big gar looked like it was as pretty a piece of fish meat as you'd ever want to eat. Over in Mississippi and Louisiana I later learned garfish was a popular treat.
Howard, you probably mentioned this previously, but do you use circle hooks on your bush lines? I have enjoyed seeing your catfish pictures the past few days.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 08, 2023, 09:58:59 AMOver in Mississippi and Louisiana I later learned garfish was a popular treat.
My aunt used to make the best smoked gar you ever tasted. It was indeed a treat.
Cavey,
Yes, I use Circle hooks exclusively on my bush hooks now. I tried a few several years back and found they were catching many more fish than the J hooks and they catch the fish in the lip or jaw instead of in the gut so the fish are easier to un-hook and they survive longer. I have completely transitioned to them.
I am going to see if I can get some small circle hooks to use to catch my bait because deep hooking my bream I catch for bait kills many of them and a dead bait is of no use to me. A flathead won't bite a dead bait and channel and blue cats seem to prefer live ones too.
Do you know how to tell the difference between a blue and a channel catfish? While a flathead is easily identified it can be difficult to tell the difference between blue and channel catfish especially when they are in the 6-10 lb range. According to the article below the long anal fin on the bottom of the fish between his anus and tail is the most accurate way to quickly tell the difference. If there are less than 30 rays or ribs in the fin it is a channel cat. If there are more than 30 rays or ribs it is a blue cat. The blue cat also has a more squared off fin while the channel cat has a rounded shape on his. This can be good to know especially in states like mine where there is a 2 fish limit and they have to be over 24" long for blues but no limit on channel cats. You do not want to run afoul of the possum sheriff having too many of the wrong kind of fish.
Channel Catfish Fish | #1 Best Guide To Channel Catfish Fish (https://bassonline.com/freshwater-species/channel-catfish/#:~:text=The%20best%20way%20to%20distinguish,has%20a%20rounded%20anal%20fin).
I hope our medical expert members will chime in here to provide proper guidance.
Did you know the old timey treatment when someone ate a small fish bone which got stuck in their throat was to have the victim swallow a piece of bread? Many times I have seen or even been given a balled up piece of light bread or hushpuppy to swallow when a fish bone got stuck in my or their mouth. We grew up catching and eating small bream with fine bones and it was common to get a fine flexible bone stuck in one's throat. I do know in my case it must have worked as I am still here. Of course I also survived stings from assorted bees and wasps when Good Samaritans applied a snuff or chewing tobacco poultice which also seems questionable treatment.
It would seem if you have something stuck in your throat the last thing you would want the victim to do would be to swallow something else. It was not the treatment I was taught in various CPR classes over the years. Admittedly the fish bone typically did not stop the person's breathing. They just could not swallow or expel it.
If any qualified experts out there can chime in on this topic it would be greatly appreciated.
OK. so you have two pipes going down your "throat". one for air the traches, and one for food and drink, the esophagus. when you breath you create negative pressure in the chest sucking air in. the trachea has cartilaginous rings to make it rigid so it does not collapse under negative pressure. the front and sides are rigid, and the back of the trachea is membranous and this is the front wall of the esophagus. the esophagus is all membranous and can stretch some. people swallow all kinds of stuff. the esophagus can accommodate most. If it makes it to the stomach, the next restriction is the pylorus. it is the valve at the bottom of the stomach to only let mostly digested stuff through. after that it is Scott free trip through the bowels and out the anus. I have seen many coins, a retainer and screws that make it all the way through. the most common thing to get stuck is a big bite of steak or meat. some people have strictures (narrowing) of the esophagus. some have social anxiety and so this happens when they go out to eat. "chew your food". The food bolus sticks in the mid esophagus. we will try meds like glucagon the relaxes the esophagus. If that does not work they go to the OR and a doc takes a scope and pushes the food down. they may need the esophagus dilated if there is a stricture. A fish or small chicken bone may stick because it is long and pokey. bread may carry it on down. when we have gone to look with a scope we usually never find anything. It is often a scratch that feels like something is there. Danny (WDH) actually pulled me aside last time w were at Jakes with this problem. he waited and all was fine. so breathing is not usually affected. If a coin is oriented side to side it is not a problem. If it turns front to back, it can stretch the mutual membrane and protrude into the airway from the membrane on the back of the trachea. our sophisticated test to see if the esophagus is blocked is to have you drink water. It is not good if it comes back up. many are spiting cause they cannot swallow saliva. A doc friends kid had this happen. we sent him to Wichita. when they spoke about an iv for the sleepy meds, he got upset the vomited. no more obstruction. all this can be a problem with cancer and radiation treatments. also reflux with acid going up and down the esophagus can create scarring. the bottom of the esophagus can handle acid like the stomach, the upper part cannot. there is a theory not yet proven in controlled studies, that guys that trim bench legs on a sawmill are full of it, but it does not usually affect their swallowing. :D :D :D :snowball:. true choking you learn about in cpr is when something is in the trachea or back of the throat.
A few snakehead have been caught in MO recently, so I guess it won't be long before they will be everywhere in the state.
I can see it now - a patient comes into the ER with something stuck in his throat. Our favorite doctor picks up a big spikey looking tube and wipes it on his pants leg and says "Lets see if we can have a look. We were able to see real well on the last 2 drunks that came in but we were checking the other end on them." That should make the patient upchuck and clear the obstacle himself. :D
WV, we must have been raised by folks with the same upbringing. A ball of bread to clear a fish bone and I've had more tobacco poultices and hog fat poultices rubbed on me than I care to remember.
I've found some very small circle hooks. A quick look online says that they are available to size #30. Is it legal for you to set fish traps to catch your bluegill? JMoore made some traps several years ago to trap pinfish. They were wire cylinders with a cone/funnel on one end. They worked pretty well.
It made me angry to read about the folks who messed with your lines a week or so ago. If that became a regular occurrence, it might not end well for them. It could be an excuse for some creative and memorable pranks to be applied.
QuoteI can see it now - a patient comes into the ER with something stuck in his throat.
That method works for those from WV 8)
Cavey,
I bought some #4 circle hooks today and re-rigged my bait catching poles this afternoon. I will try them out the first chance I get. That was the smallest size our local bait shop had. Mostly I am catching Little Green Sunfish. I never saw them till I got up here. They have a pretty big mouth similar to a goggle-eye back where I was raised. They are very aggressive little feeders.
I use the wire tubes with funnels in both ends to catch minnows and chubs in the creek in my front yard. They break open in the middle into mirror image pairs and have a big safety pin looking affair to keep them closed. I also catch my share of crawfish and a water snake trying to steal them is not uncommon. I think the opening is limited to a 1" diameter to prevent catching gamefish like bluegills. If you do catch a gamefish in one you are required to release them. There are no bluegills in my creek. You pretty much have to catch your little bream on hook and line then you can use them, up to you bag limit, on set hooks or a rod and reel. I think you can use a cast net to catch shad and such but can't even keep game fish caught in a net.
In many states (like Fla)if you catch a gamefish on a bushhook or trotline you are required to release it. Occasionally I will catch a largemouth, smallmouth or striped bass or a crappie on my lines here. In WV I have not seen any restriction on keeping such game fish. In some states it is illegal to use live bait on set hooks to help prevent game fish getting hooked.
My dad used to only use Camay soap on his bush hooks he set in the Suwannee River because he only caught Channel and Blue catfish on it. No gars, eels, mudfish, turtles or other trash fish to contend with. The down side was he also did not catch any Flatheads but back then live bait was not legal in Fla. Now I understand you can use it but not game fish.
Hopefully the stolen lines were a one-off occurrence from a disgruntled "Nature Lover". I cannot comment on what happens if it happens again and he gets caught at it.
Ian may be able to help us out with confirming or correcting mistakes is this topic. Did you know the Thylacine or Tasmanian Devil/Tasmanian wolf was a large marsupial dog like predator native to Australia and Tasmania. They are believed to be extinct with the last one known about dying in a zoo. It had stripes which probably lead to it being called the T. Tiger. The introduction of the Dingo helped lead to their downfall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thylacine
Tasmanian tiger / wolf. The Tasmanian devil is a smaller critter that isn't extinct.
What is interesting is how the Thylacine evolved to look very much like a wolf or tiger, but has no close relationship to either cats or dogs. It's more related to possums or Tasmanian devils. But it's a bit like how seals / dolphins / penguins all ended up looking a bit the same, but very different family trees.
I suspect that the introduction of the dingo with the first humans ~50,000 years ago did lead to their decline, but what finished them off was their taste for sheep once the European farmers arrived.
Ian,
I read several articles indicating the dingo was introduced about 3500 years ago from the New Guinea area. It is apparently a very primitive dog with no significant change to the breed. Apparently they pretty much co-existed with the humans. As I understand they were not so much pets or working animals just neighbors. I don't ever remember seeing dingos with groups of people like other herding or hunting dogs or pets.
Related to the Dingo were various breeds of Polynesian dog. They would have originated in the New Guinea area around that same time, and were spread to the Pacific Islands between NZ and Hawaii over the years. They never went feral as the Island forests are short on food to support dogs. The breeds basically disappeared once they started breeding with more recently introduced European breeds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_Dog
As Ian touched on did you know the Tasmanian Devil is a small predatory marsupial native to the the island of Tasmania? Apparently it is a very cute little guy but has the temperament of a badger. It is pretty much on the threatened list as I remember.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3659.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1686854631)
Did you know you can make an excellent live bait bucket by taking a good plastic bucket with a well fitting lid and drill a bunch of 1/4" holes in all sides, bottom and top? Tie a heavy cord or small rope through a hole at the top of the bucket and run it through a hole in the lid. Be sure the cord is long enough to tie the bucket to a handy limb, root or partially submerged snag in your favorite lake or stream. Put your remaining live bait in the bucket at the end of the day/fishing trip and snap the lid on tight. Tie the bucket to a convenient tie off point and toss it in the water. Be sure the water is deep enough to completely submerge the bucket. Also be sure the bucket is negatively buoyant. If it does not sink add a small weight inside.
I have used the bucket in the picture for many years. I used to catch small bream for bait and bring them home and put in my creek. Many of the bait died during transport as I did not have a good aeration system. Now I catch my bait and keep in in the live well in my boat. When I am done every day I scoop the remaining bait into the bucket and tie them just below the surface to a convenient snag or tree limb using a camo cord. I use a green or black bucket to make it harder for other fishermen to see so people don't steal or release my bait. My bucket requires a rock or railroad spike in it to make it sink. When I return my bait is nearly always in very good shape and ready to use.
Did you know a catfish typically has 3 spines it uses for protection? There are 2 spines on the pectoral fins right behind the jaw/gills and another spine on its dorsal fins. These fins have a venom which will cause swelling/edema if you get punctured by the fins. The fins on the smaller fish are typically much more dangerous then those on a large fish simply because they are so much sharper. The fins dull with age and growth so the tips on a fish over a few pounds is not nearly as dangerous as say one of half a pound.
Getting punctured or "stung" by a catfish is immediately and severely painful. An old wives tale was to rub slime from the belly on the sting and it will quit hurting. Many people believe this but I am sure doctors will routinely disagree with such treatment. It just makes sense that rubbing bacteria laden slime into a fresh wound cannot help but there are still many who believe in it.
When we were kids if my dad caught a catfish he always broke the spines for safety reasons. I no longer break them and even find they are convenient to use to hold on to the fish. When I clean a catfish the 2 pectoral spines come off with the head and the dorsal spine remains on the backbone of the filleted fish. An Equine rectum at our local lake recently caught a bunch of catfish and threw them on the bank where many of us launch our boats. I do not know if he even filleted any of the meat off the fish as the local buzzards have pretty much cleaned up everything but the skeletons. A big concern I have as many kids swim in that area and the spines would readily puncture a bare foot or if soft flip flops pr beach shoes. I don't know why the #%)*^!) did nots just throw then remains into the lake where they would have been eaten or at least washed away.
Did you know a common minnow trap is made from two pieces of 1/4" hardware cloth soldered to a couple of metal hoops? On each end there is a funnel with an approximately 1" opening. The two pieces are mirror image with a male and female connection so they snap together and there are 2 loops on the opposite side of the connection that is locked in place with a big safety pin looking device. You snap the 2 pieces together, lock with the pin, bait with bread or dry dog food and tie it out after dropping it in a likely spot in a stream or lake. Most states limit the size of the opening so larger, game fish cannot be caught in it. Most states dictate that any small game fish or other protected species caught in such a trap must immediately be released. Crawfish and an occasional water snake or even a frog will sometimes get in after the bait or minnows inside the trap.
You empty the trap by releasing the pin in the middle and breaking the 2 parts apart and dumping the minnows into a bait bucket.
Howard, I once caught a Chipmunk in a trap just like you described!
I left it assembled, and hung it on the wall in the garage, it was hanging there quite a while, then one day when I opened the door the critter started making quite the ruckus, so I opened the trap then nested the two halves and hung it back on the wall.
Chuck,
I did the same thing. I leave my minnow traps tied out and hanging in convenient bushes near and over my creek. I had one hanging in a willow and I guess it had some dry dog food in it and Alvin got caught trying to get it. Fortunately I spotted him and released him in time.
Did you know that fish, crab or lobster traps are pretty much made the same way as a minnow trap only on a larger scale? They are are made of wire, wooden slats or thin metal rods/bars/slats. They have one or more funnels in the end(s) or side(s) the the fish, crab or lobster enter. The size of the opening determines how big an animal can enter. Bait is typically placed in the middle of the trap to attract the prey which squeezes through the funnel then cannot find its way out. Some are square or rectangle. others are a long tube, etc.
On a lobster tour in Bar Harbor Maine a few years back the tour guide told and showed us how an opening had to be included and made of a rapidly degrading material such as jute cord or such. This was to ensure if the trap was lost it did not become a permanent death trap on the sea bed for sea creatures forever. Once the cord rotted there was an opening the prey could escape from.
Here in NY you have to have a fishing license if you set out a minnow trap for your bait fish!
Might sound stupid, but it's the law.
(Okay - we're getting real basic now due to dry spell in my thought processes so you guys help me out and trigger some more interesting topics) Did you know that when you are operating a tiller operated outboard motor you push the tiller to the left to make the boat go to the right? When going in reverse you point the tiller in the direction you want the boat to go. You are basically changing the direction of the propeller and it is like pushing a donut with a pencil when going forward or pulling it with a string when going in reverse.
On many small outboard motors they had a small (1-2 qt) fuel tank on top of the motor and when you went forward you just pushed the tiller (a short handle connected to the motor) left or right to make the boat go right or left. To go in reverse you spun/spin the whole motor around and point it in the direction you want to go. On larger motor you have a forward and reverse lever and only the foot or lower portion of the outboard turns. The larger motors typically have a separate fuel tank with a flexible hose you connect at the motor and at the tank. The hose has a priming bulb you squeeze a couple of times to pump oil from the tank to the motor. (Don't get the direction of the hose ends/connections mixed up as the fuel only flows in one direction and "I have heard" you will quickly shut down on the lake with a big pontoon boat and an inexperienced driver coming your way. ::))
A poor design I feel Johnson/Evinrude (They are both OMC and parts are identical) made was a 4 hp outboard. It had the advantages of a separate fuel tank but did not have a forward and reverse so to reverse the direction you had to spin the motor around with that long flexible hose connected and in the way. The motor can spin completely around wrapping the hose around it if you have a long enough hose Dad liked small motors and bought a couple of the 4 hp Johnsons as I remember.
I use 2- 6 gallon tanks with my 25 hp Johnson outboard and when my outboard first starts to sputter from an empty tank, I quickly switch the hose to the other tank. I like this system because the proper fuel/oil mixture on my outboard is 50:1 (50 parts gas to 1 part oil) which works out basically to about one pint of oil to 6 gallons of gas. That is a hair heavy on the oil (48:1) but certainly close enough.
Chuck,
I think that fishing license requirement may be the same here in WV for minnow baskets. Seems like the last time I read it you needed one to catch crawfish which get in the same kind of trap as well as other more specially designed ones. Seems like you have to have your name and license number on your trap.
We have to have our name and license number or address on every trotline or bush hook we put out. That is common in many states. I just write "H. Green" and my 6 digit WV license number on a piece of plastic flagging tape with a sharpie and tie them to my lines to make them legal. The flagging actually makes it much easier to see them. In most states that is required and you have a limit of something like 25 hooks per license so the possum sheriff can count to see if you are exceeding that or putting them in prohibited areas like docks or buoys or such, using wire or multiple point hooks which is illegal, and also verify you are checking the lines every 24 hours per state law. We don't have limit on the number of lines here in WV but it is still good to be able to prove ownership. Unfortunately fish thieves just check the area when they see a shaking line and if nobody is around they go throw the catfish in the boat, cut the line and keep moving.
One thing here is we are not allowed to keep any darters. (Remember the famous snail darter that stopped construction of a big power dam and lake out west somewhere. I think the spotted owl finally ate the last of the snail darters. ::) ) Our creek has lots of darters so when I put out my minnow traps I have to be careful to sort through the catch to keep the chubs and minnows and return the darters. I have heard catfish and crappie and such cannot tell a darter from a creek chub.
Mostly a repeat from our sister thread but did you know that while wild turkeys have excellent eyesight they have little or no sense of smell? A turkey is nearly impossible to sneak up on and the slightest motion is spotted when you try to ambush one.
Five Senses of the Wild Turkey - The National Wild Turkey Federation (https://www.nwtf.org/content-hub/five-senses-of-the-wild-turkey)
Do you know how to repair a broken trotline once it has been set? As a reminder a trotline is a heavy cord tied between 2 points in a lake or stream with short lines (drops) with hooks on them every few feet. You use a series of weights and sometimes floats to adjust the depth of the line. Sometimes they get hung on the bottom and break while you are pulling them up, sometimes a disgruntled fisherman will get hung on the and cut them for spite, sometimes a passing boat motor will cut one if you are working it near the surface and once I had one to break while working it because of the build up of Fall leaves in the water. I usually tie mine to 2 fixed points but some people tie one end then sink the other end on a heavy weight out in the water.
One option is just to take up the trotline starting at each fixed end, pulling it up and removing the drops, weights, and floats, go to the other end and repeat then reconnect it and put it back out.
The more common method is you need a spare roll of heavy cord or rope roughly the length of the trotline. Start on one end of the broken trotline and pull it up as you go till you reach the broken end. Tie that broken end to your rope or roll of cord then unroll enough slack to reach the other end. Navigate to the other fixed end of the broken trotline and start pulling it up till you get to the break then pull on the roll of cord to raise the other end. Pull the two broken ends together and tie them back together. This can be difficult if the trotline is very long and if there is much current causing resistance from the water.
If one broken end is tied to a weight you will have to make a snag line using whatever hooks and line you have available to hook into it and raise it.
Another option would be to find the shortest broken end and just untie and retrieve it. I'd remove the drops but if yours are permanently affixed you would have to roll them up carefully so they don't tangle. Once retrieved go to long end and work it till you get to the break, tie the two main lines together then re-stretch and re-tie the line to your anchor point.
It is usually difficult and can be dangerous to repair a broken trotline so be very careful. If you have ever had a trotline break while under tension you will realize how traumatic it can be as you have a flying line with hooks passing across your boat and through your hands.
My trotlines were made of heavy cord for the main line and I tied a loop in the line every 4-6 feet that I attached my drops to. I'd put the main line out and tie to likely looking fixed objects on the bank or a tree limb. I'd often cut my main line where convenient for the length I wanted then I'd tie a new loop in the cut end. I would sometimes tie 2-3 short trotlines together using my quick disconnect knot to make a long line so there was nothing sacred to me about the length of my lines. I'd add enough weight to sink the line as I was putting it out to avoid any passing boat motors. Then I'd come back and add and bait the drops. I'd take them up in reverse by removing the drops on one pass then untying and rolling up the main line in the next pass.
WV, did you hear about a cricket population explosion in Utah or Nevada ? Going by what they showed on the news you could go there with a battery run shop vac and clean up and get enough fish bait to last a lifetime! They are missing a chance to make money selling them for bait, pet lizard food or bird food.
KEC,
That is real tempting. I love fishing with crickets and am anxious to try them on a circle hook. Where I grew up in the south every bait store and most country stores had a cricket box and you'd buy crickets by the tube full. They are excellent bluegill bait especially in moving water. We had a mechanic in our area who opened a country store then got more and more into the fish bait and finally built a cricket house and started raising and selling them to other dealers. As he got older he got out of the mechanics work and fixing tires and such. Dad sort of partnered with him and provided him a lead melter and molds and he used up his old tire weights making weights for Dad's bushhooks and eventually selling them. I used to see places in Fla and such where they had paved parking areas that after a rain would be infested with big grey mole crockets and I always wanted to get a bunch of them.
Did you know for some real fun and productive fishing take a little light weight rod and reel and use a small jig spinner to catch bream and crappies and such? Replace the plastic or rubber grub on the jig with a live cricket and pitch it along the bank and under low hanging bushes along your favorite stream. The fish are attracted to the shiny, noisy spinner but will often bite short on a rubber grub. When the see and smell the cricket they attack if viciously. And every now and then you will hook a 2-3 lb bass or channel cat and really have a fight on your hands.
I just read an article from Wyoming on population explosions of what are called Mormon crickets. How they got the name I have no idea.
Here is what Wikipedia says about the name:
The Mormon cricket takes its common name from the prominent role it played in the miracle of the gulls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_gulls), after the Mormon settlers in Utah had encountered them while pushing westward.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_cricket#cite_note-Hartley-2)
(Ian unknowingly prompted this one) Did you know there is a difference between a possum and an Opossum? Possums live in Australia and New Zealand and Opossums live in North and South America. They are different species. Who'd a'thunk it!
Opossum vs. Possum?Is It the Same Animal? | Grammarly (https://www.grammarly.com/blog/opossum-vs-possum/#:~:text=Here's%20a%20tip%3A%20Opossums%20and,in%20Australia%20and%20other%20countries).
For someone who calls Red Squirrels fairydiddles, WV is getting pretty proper in the use of names. Next thing you know, he'll tell us we can't call Virginia Opposums grinners. :D
;D ;D ;D
I was just on the way home and had to slow down to be led astray by a grouse. That was nice to see, it has become all too rare.
(I know I have touched on this before but will feature it today) Did you know an effective way to catch bream like big bluegills and such is to use something my grandmother used to call a dabbler? It is a long limber pole with a short line, maybe a foot or so, and a fly, jig or piece of work or crickets or such. You push the pole up under low hanging bushes and limbs and wiggle the bait up and down to attract the fish. When the fish strikes you pull the pole back to the boat to remove the fish.
An expanded version of this is used to catch very big bass at night and you scull the boat quietly long the bank and drag a Jitterbug lure on a very short line or use a big treble hook with a light colored rubber skirt and wiggle the tip of the pole up and down in the water making little splashes and leave a V trail like a swimming bullfrog jumping off the bank and swimming. We called this Jigger fishing or Jomoling when I was a kid. You needed a long, strong pole and you'd tie it back further on the pole in case the tip broke. The experts I talked to were 2 brothers and they said you needed to be very quiet and an electric trolling motor was too loud so you had to scull the boat. When I last asked how they had been doing one brother said "We have been catching lots of 10-12 lb fish but have not caught as many of those old big ones as we used to".
As I understand it is not a technique you want to try if you have a heart condition!
I will stick with the dabbling and see what I can do with big bluegills.
When I was growing up we called them cane poles and ours were made from what I think was bamboo. Each summer we would rent a cabin for a week for our vacation so we would pack up the car for our trip, except the cane poles were too long. The back was tied to the back of the car with string around the hinge of the trunk, and the front of the poles rested on the passenger side mirror. The whole trip we could only use the driver's side doors because the cane poles were on the others side.
They worked great for panfish. Dad use to say that sometimes if you get a big one on, you just thrown the cane pole in and follow it around the lake until the fish tired out.
Cane poles were also good with kids because dad wouldn't spend all day untangling lines. :)
Fluid,
I had forgotten but the fancy neighbors had pole holders which were a C-clamp affair with little bungees or cords to tie a bundle of cane poles on to the roof of the car. Most of the rest of us would roll the back window down and slide the poles in between the front passenger door and the seat. As you describe you could not use the rear passenger door and rarely used to front passenger door.
Dad grew up in Dixie county Fla along the Suwannee River and in that area you could buy 20'- 30' long cane poles that people used to fish in the lakes and way out in the river. I have never seen cane poles that long used anywhere else.
We never tried to throw the pole in and chase it down but probably should a few times when you would hook a really big one who generally broke the line or straightened the hook. I might have to try that here when I hook a big catfish or carp when I am fishing for bait or bluegills.
Very seldom did a pole break. They were very strong and very flexible. If you got a big fish on there they would really make the line sing in the water. I saw a couple catching big mullets and sometimes a sucker in the run-off from Hart Springs where it ran like a crystal clear creek from the big boiling spring to the Suwannee River. They were using those long cane poles, a #8 hook and about an inch of earthworm and would drop the bait right in front of the fish coming up into the spring run. I know of very few fish that fight as hard as a large sucker so it was exciting to watch when they did hook one. The mullet were a salt water fish but evidently came up the river and possibly into the springs to spawn. I remember catching tiny baby flounders in the sand in the spring runs. I never saw an adult but if it was not a flounder it was some other species of flat fish. We were probably 50 miles or so up from the Gulf of Mexico where the Suwannee entered the Gulf.
I have lots of good memories fishing with a cane pole. Only later did I realize how efficient they are. You can be fishing 8 ft down with a regular bobber and when you pull it up the fish is right there at your waist. (Ours were about 12ft long.) No need for a slip bobber.
Of course when I was using one I wanted a casting reel because no matter where we were fishing, l always thought that the big ones were just out of reach!
When I got older I inherited one of Dads Zebco 202's and he then had an excuse to upgrade to a 404.
Fluid,
My first rod and reel was a Zebco 22. You pushed a button on top to release the line and held a big round, spinning button on the front of the reel and cast and released the button. You could feather the spinning round button to slow down the cast if you needed to do so. I had about a 2' long rod with either 2 or 3 eyes. I remember fishing with my old mentor (my first overnight camping trip) in the 5th grade. He pulled the old wooden johnboat up against a fallen tree by a tall clay bank. There was an opening between the bank and a drift pile where he was fishing. I just had a big drift pile in front of me and asked him where I was supposed to fish and he told me to just throw out in that pile. I knew my bait would never get through it so I took the little rod and reel and dropped the line right over the side of the boat and under the pile and immediately started catching bream. I caught 4-5 while he did not catch anything so he decided we needed to move. I told him "But I'm catching fish here." He decided it was time to go fix dinner so we left. We were in a competition to see who could catch the most. He would not let me count the little channel cat I caught off the sandbar while he was cooking dinner either. :D
Another time Dad and my older brother and I were fishing in a narrow creek/lake area and we finally got the boat positioned where I could make a long cast so I drew back and cast my Bomber lure the hardest I had ever thrown and I waited and waited for it to hit the water. It did not. I turned around and it was hung up past the barb in Dad's lower jaw. I busted out crying on the spot because I knew I was never going to get to go fishing again! :( My older brother tried to pull it out with a pair of pliers but could not do it. A turkey hunter came out of the woods and Dad got him to pull it free, I think there was a hunk of bone hung in the barb. It was a very traumatic event in my life but eventually I did get to go fishing again. :)
I bought 2 - 10' take down bamboo poles last week from a Rural King and a 12' one today. The guy had a 14' pole too but that is hard to work under the trees here so I declined it. I prefer fiberglass but these were cheap and great for the grandkids to use.
Oh Howard😂😂 Biggest cast ever!
BB,
Have a heart! >:( I was just a kid! :D :D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 25, 2023, 07:20:55 PM
Fluid,
My first rod and reel was a Zebco 22. You pushed a button on top to release the line and held a big round, spinning button on the front of the reel and cast and released the button.
My first Zebco was before the push button. It just had an opening in the back where if you put your thumb on it a flywheel was just under the cover and would hold it in position until you let off. It was on a steel pole. I still have it to this day. An interesting note is that these reels when taken off the rod would show the real name of Zebco which is the Zero Hour Bomb Company. I believe they were made inTexas. An engineer of the Bomb company had an idea for a new reel and that is how it started. If i have time tomorrow i will post some pics.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on June 24, 2023, 09:47:30 AM
(Ian unknowingly prompted this one) Did you know there is a difference between a possum and an Opossum? Possums live in Australia and New Zealand and Opossums live in North and South America. They are different species. Who'd a'thunk it!
Opossum vs. Possum?Is It the Same Animal? | Grammarly (https://www.grammarly.com/blog/opossum-vs-possum/#:~:text=Here's%20a%20tip%3A%20Opossums%20and,in%20Australia%20and%20other%20countries).
Wait what?! I just thought it's the way aussies spell opossum...
There are actually dozens of different possum species from Australia and SE Asia.
This is the Common Brushtail that is an introduced pest here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_brushtail_possum
You can see how it has some resemblance to the opossum, but is only a distant relative.
They are actually a cute critter, and you can even tame a young one and keep it as a pet. Just watch those claws. ;) They have a thick soft fur, which is why they were (unwisely) introduced here. But with the lush evergreen forest and no natural enemies the numbers soon got our of hand.
Quote from: Ianab on June 26, 2023, 04:53:45 AMYou can see how it has some resemblance to the opossum, but is only a distant relative. They are actually a cute critter, and you can even tame a young one and keep it as a pet. Just watch those claws. They have a thick soft fur, which is why they were (unwisely) introduced here. But with the lush evergreen forest and no natural enemies the numbers soon got our of hand.
Oooh, I've seen those in some videos as pets. Wouldn't even think that those are related to our NA opossums to be fair! You learn something new everyday :D
P.s Relocatted a family of possums today(folks at local hunting store (https://gritroutdoors.com/) gave me a phone of good service, apparently they drive him really far away!)
The immediate difference I see between the American Opossum and the Australian/New Zealand possum is the hairy tails down under. I read somewhere the range of the opossum was to the north to the point the tips of their tails would freeze off in the winter. Thinking about it - that does not make sense! The possum lives in a generally warm climate and has a furry tail and the Opossum live in a region that can be very cold in the northern extreme but has a hairless tail. I wonder if the possums grin like ours do?
Pretty sure opossums are hibernators.
I would not doubt they hibernate for varying periods of time in the extreme northern range to a degree but not in the more temperate regions. Like bears in Fla or such who never hibernate as the weather never gets that cold.
BTW - Terminix does not seem to think they hibernate. I bet they do not move in extreme conditions like our wild turkeys who will not leave the roost if doing so is likely to require more energy than they will gain from doing so. I feel like that myself at times.
Where Do Opossums Live In The Winter? | Terminix (https://www.terminix.com/blog/education/where-opossums-live-in-winter/#:~:text=When%20Are%20Opossums%20Active%3F,search%20for%20nourishment%20year%2Dround).
Did you know that nightcrawler worms typically leave the tip of their tail securely anchored in a hole in the ground? When frightened they rapidly pull themselves back to safety inside their hole. In fact on a quiet wet/damp night you can hear them "slurping" back into their holes as you walk around. Unlike frogs, fish and many animals that are blinded and freeze when you shine a bright light on them, nightcrawlers are scared of bright lights and will retreat quickly when you you shine a bright light directly at them.
To catch nightcrawlers for fish bait and such (The last I bought were about $4/dozen from my local bait shop) go to a short grass area that has been watered recently by rain or a sprinkler. Use a dim light and look for the worms outside their holes in the perimeter of your light beam. I have read and am going to try using a red beam and see if that helps. Walk slowly and quietly and when you see a worm out of his hole reach down and pin him securely with your index finger. Usually you cannot see the entire worm but if you can see which end is closest to the hole pin him down there. Grab the worm with your other hand and hold steady pressure until the worm comes out of his tail. Pulling too hard or from the wrong angle can easily break the worm in two. Store the worms in damp composted sawdust if available and and in the refrigerator if it is not set too cold and your wife does not find out.
The idea of using a big fat juicy worm for bait is appealing but if you are fishing for panfish such as bluegills an inch or so of worm is likely all you need. Remember these small panfish feed on mosquitoes and other small insects and crustations and such so they typically eat very small meals.
guess I am wrong, opossums do not hibernate :P
https://northamericannature.com/how-do-opossums-survive-winter/
:snowball:
JJ
JJ,
Maybe the ones you saw in the winter were just "playing possum" and you thought they were hibernating. :D :D
Did you know it is very easy to unload even a heavy boat off a trailer by yourself? All you need is a long rope tied to the bow of the boat.
Where I unload mine is usually in a local COE lake and we have a nice sloping shoreline we can back the boat and trailer into. I drive to the lake, start backing to get the boat and truck pointed for unloading and back it to a within few feet from the lake. I unhook the winch and safety hook connecting the boat to the trailer. I unhook the straps on the back doing the same thing. I tie a long rope tied to the bow of the boat to the high point on my trailer, make sure the rope is coiled on the bow of the boat to uncoil freely and not tangled in my trolling motor or any gear, unhook my trailer lights from the truck, then I back the boat into the lake until it floats of the trailer at the back then I stop abruptly and gravity pulls the boat back into the lake. I pull the trailer far enough forward so the ramps on the trailer are just the right height to drive up on when I return.
I park my truck leaving the trailer in the water and get out and go grab the rope and pull the boat to the shore and get in and away I go. If I am unloading at a dock I get out and tie the boat to the dock then go park the truck.
Two critical things to check before unloading the boat is that the drain plug is in the boat and the rope is tied securely to the trailer and the boat. Oh yeah - be sure the safety cable is unhooked so the boat can slide free. I am sure glad I have never made any of those mistakes. ::)
It is safer for me to tie the the trailer than have someone hold the rope in most cases. I have had my wife volunteer to help then when I stop and the boat slides off the trailer she would lose her grip on the rope and watch the boat float freely into the lake. Depending on the wind direction it can be a minor inconvenience or a nice day for a swim. ::) It is much easier to just tie off the rope.
Howard- let me know how your method works when you switch from a bunk trailer to a roller trailer. I found out the hard way, that it isn't the same🤦
Most trailers' bunks are covered with carpet. Years ago I started covering mine with canvas firehose. About once a year I'll rub Gulf wax on the bunks after the trailer has been sitting in full sun, unloaded for a while. You will think your trailer bunks are rollers the next time you load or unload.
I much prefer bunks to rollers.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/image~359.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1497884034)
The heavy boat wore through the carpet on the bunks. The hose, as seen here, is durable and will last a long time. I need to roll the trailer out and see if the engine will still start and run. It has been too long.
I think i prefer bunks to rollers, too. They do a better job of guiding the boat up on the trailer. Rollers, just kind of roll😊
BB,
I assume I just won't have to stop as abruptly to unload if I switch to rollers. I added the side bunks a few years ago and they help. I wish they were tighter so they would push my boat better on to the slides. Right now my R side slide is broken.( It is just a carpet covered 8' long 2X4. You'd think I would have or could make one of those easy enough wouldn't you? ::)) I think it just has 2 carriage bolts holding it on. It is an easy fix when the boat is off but that is always at the lake. I have studied that and think I can unload the boat on to 2 of my 15" X 4' sawhorse I used to use to stack lumber and slabs. They are available since I built the shed extension and bins earlier this year.
Right now if I load and the slides end up on the wrong side of the ridges in the boat I had to lift and slide the heavy boat back into place. As I am getting older I find that is getting harder for some reason. Maybe I should just go fix that. Another trick would be to put some fill on the side bunks to help center the boat better so it would land in the center. It is a Semi-V boat. The side bunks won't adjust in any further but shimming them up should be easy. I might could just use a dock bumper to do the same thing.
You guys have got me thinking now (which usually entails more work and costs me more money ::)).
I did have a fine mess of bluegills for lunch though! digin1 digin1
Well, you guys shamed me into it and I went out and fixed my boat trailer today. I was trying to figure how to get the boat up off the trailer and I had an epiphany (and I thought of something) and remembered my little tractor has and FEL. Duuhh! I just barely had enough clearance from it to lift the back of the boat off the trailer but any was enough. I loosened 2 bolts in the brackets and removed the broken runner, removed the carpet and stapled it on to a new 8' dimensional 2X4 and replaced the screws in the bracket. Since I was using the old carpet/covering the spots for the holes were already marked and I had an impact wrench handy to reinstall the screws. I put the bolts back in the brackets and tightened them then added a carpet wrapped 4' piece of the same 2X4 and screwed that on to the side bunks narrowing the space about 4" so now when I run the boat on the trailer it should just slide right into place forcing it perfectly to fit and no more shifting a heavy boat on the trailer. Just another project I'd been putting off that was an easy fix with materials and equipment on hand.
Did you know fish roe (eggs) is very tasty? Well, it is off bream like bluegills and crappie and such. I have not tried it from larger fish like bass or catfish. I know at certain times of the year we used to get roe mullet from our local Fla fish markets. As I remember the mullet seemed to be 5-6 inches long and 1-2 inches in diameter. When the fish monger cleaned the mullet he was careful with gutting them and left the mullet intact in the fish.
I had 5-6 nice little roe packets in the mess of bream I caught yesterday so when I gutted them I inserted my knife carefully not to cut or break them and I mealed and fried them with a mess of the fish for lunch today and the roe was the best part.
I tried some deep fried fish roe my Uncle made once. It wasn't for me, but it could've been the way he cooked it. Just breaded and thrown in the fryer with the filets. It was like biting into a packet of flour😂
I was earlier alluding to a very embarrassing incident I had the first time I used a roller trailer. My wife and I borrowed her Grandpa's deep and wide 16' walleye boat. We brought it to a local landing, that is fairly busy, with a nice concrete ramp. Well my only experience was with a bunk trailer, and I proceeded the same way as always, which is the same method Howard described. Well, I started backing in and unfortunately the boat came off the trailer before I even made it to the water. Rolled right off. I had just topped the gas off, and gas was pouring out the overflow🤦🤦 As it so happened, a friend was fishing on the dock there and ran over and helped me get it back on the trailer. The embarrassment meter was pegged right out🤦 After that, I always left the front hooked up, backed in and walked the trailer out to release it. A roller trailer would probably be ok on a less steep landing, but how do you find the limit?
BB,
I have seen many embarrassing incidents at boat docks. Usually it was someone putting a boat in with the drain plug removed and the frantic rush to find and install it. I've seen people toss their buddy the keys and watched them miss catching them and have them land/sink in the lake.
I watched 2 old men who appeared to have a new large boat trying to load it. One backed the trailer into the water while the other tried to drive it up on the trailer. Usually to do this you get the boat lined up and started on the trailer then gun the engine to slide the boat the rest of the way up the trailer. In this case the boat captain started the boat up the trailer then gunned it but hit the wheel hard to the right and drove the bow of the boat under the dock and was going fast enough it pulled the motor/prop completely out of the water so the boat was well and truly stuck pretty much completely out of the water cross ways on the trailer with the bow wedged under the dock. Of course it was a busy day and there was a large crowd waiting to use the dock and able to watch. I had to tell my wife to stop laughing as those people were having trouble enough. The boat was too heavy to lift off the trailer and the solution they used was finally to back the car and trailer further back into the lake to to float it off the trailer. As I remember he backed down to the point water was coming up to or into the back door of the vehicle. He was able to float the boat off and get the bow unstuck then repositioned the trailer and loaded it normally and cautiously. This happened at Lake Worth ion the Flint River n Albany Ga in the early 1980's
Did you know there is an automatic fish scaler you simply tow behind your boat? You put the fish inside the wire/metal cage and tow it behind your boat on the return trip to the landing. The scaler spins in the water and has rough edges or fins inside that knocks the scales off the fish in motion. I have not seen them used in many years and saw one at a flea market a while back. I had one friend who said if you slit the bellies first it would even gut the fish for you and all you had to do was cut the heads off. I never tried it so cannot swear that would work. Below is one example I found still on the market. This is not an endorsement of this brand just an example.
https://rockitfishscaler.com/
I'm not biting on that, but I sent it to a friend of mine that loves to fish. Maybe he will get it and give us a report. ;D
RT,
I am sorely wounded that you seem to question the veracity of my posts. ::) :( :D Surely you know no true outdoorsman (Fisherman, hunter, etc.) would ever stretch the limits of the truth. ;D
The only problem I seem to remember with the automatic fish scaler was people putting them out on too long a rope and cutting them with their boat props. Of course every time you hear of that happening it was always when they had a record catch of the biggest mess of crappie, bass or bluegills they had ever caught.
Dad loaned a boat to a co-worker one time and the man returned it and said he and his son had caught the most and biggest fish they had ever caught but they found there was a hole in the live well and they had all escaped. Dad did not tell them but he knew about the hole in the live well but had never bothered to fix it because he figured anything bigger than a 4" redbelly could not get out anyway. :-[
There were too many swivels breaking and folks loosing an entire basket of fish here.
I used to see a lot of wire baskets used here and had heard that they would scale your fish for you. We found that a tablespoon was about the most efficient fish scaler.
We've also used electric knives to fillet fish for years. The old Black and Deckers were pretty good but there are now better options. On our dock at Anna Maria, which I have not been to in way too long, I have a four-way outlet and a couple of holes for beach umbrellas to go into. The sink is surrounded on four sides with a cleaning table. I prefer to clean fish in the shade.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/IMG_0626.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1408501192)
This is JMoore's daughter with some mangrove snapper one night several years ago, at the cleaning table. I prefer to fillet/clean fish after they have been iced for a few hours.
I have used and like the collapsible live baskets but I dropped one of them overboard several years ago when fishing here with my mom. We had a pretty decent mess of fish in there and never recovered it. I have a live well in my boat that does pretty good but it was easier to throw them in the basket till I lost it and did not have it tied off. I'd just been skipping a loop in the cord over the tie offs on the boat.
I should list this in the did something dumb as I forgot to put my tie down straps back on my boat yesterday after I replaced the runner and modified the side bunks. My wife and I went fishing this afternoon and we were lucky the boat is heavy enough, the lake is only 8 miles away and a good road so we arrived safely. The new runner and bunk mods work good. 8)
Fishing was slow and we only kept 8-10 bluegills that I threw back at the landing. She got some nice pictures of a couple of deer in the lake, one adult bald eagle, an osprey, lots of geese, several herons. lots of baby ducks following their moms around and several anhingas. It was a nice laid back trip.
Lynn,
I assume you are talking about the swivel that comes with the scaler basket. I never thought about it but it makes sense they would use one. If I even buy one I will keep a watch out on them
If that is Jmoore's daughter cleaning those mangrove snapper I feel like I failed a a parent as I never got my daughter that well trained. ::)
Yes scaler basket swivel. Of course it probably also had something to do with speed. ::)
Did you know the fish scaler shown below works very well for scaling most fish. You can typically find them for sale for about $1 each at Wal-Mart or cheap fishing supply places.
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/bass-pro-shops-fish-scaler
We grew up scaling fish with a knife blade, a butter knife and I know some people who used a tablespoon as mentioned earlier. I keep 2-3 of these little hand scalers hanging on a nail at my game and fish cleaning station.
Overseas (in Cameroon, West Africa) I lived near an open air fish market and there were always fish mongers hanging around who would clean any fish you bought (for a price of course). They mostly used a homemade scaler that was a board cut into a paddle shape (Kind of like school principals used to use) with dozens of nails driven through with 1/2 to 3/4 inch of point sticking through. The pointed side did a very good job of removing the scales of most fish.
Did you know that birds typically lay eggs over several days but the baby birds normally hatch at approximately the same time? The reason this happens is the eggs sort of sit dormant until the mother bird actually starts to sit on/incubate the eggs after she has laid the entire clutch. The incubation process starts the embryo growing so the eggs hatch with minutes or a few hours of each other even though there is often several days between the time the first and last egg were laid.
That's how turkeys do it.. lay a clutch of a dozen or so eggs a day at a time, then sit on them to hatch.
https://myodfw.com/learn/tip/lifecycle-wild-turkey
Did you know that one of the African waterbuck's natural defenses is that it shed's massive amount of loose hair when a predator attacks or tries to eat it? This makes him a pretty low priority prey item as the predators don't like getting big wads of hair in their mouths when they try to eat it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3671.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1688411608)
Did you know if you fish for any small mouthed fish, especially with small hooks that they often swallow, you would be well advised to buy yourself one of these folding fishermen's knives? The knife has about a 5" cutting blade that I never use but the other blade is the best designed hook disengorger I have ever found. It is only about 3/8" wide and the notch in the tip fits perfectly under the hook of a fly or small bait hook to push it free in a deeply hooked fish. You may need to hold tension on the line or leader to slide the tool down to the hook then give it a little push to free the hook normally without harming the fish. It is also a fish scaler that works pretty well for most panfish like bluegills or crappie. The wide hand held scaler discussed earlier works better but in a pinch this one is pretty good. I see it even has a bottle opener which I also never use but can't hurt to have one available.
I keep mine in my plastic box with my flies and fly line dressing and such. I would not recommend buying an expensive model as any cheap one you find will work just as well and you will get many years of service out of it. You will lose it before you wear one out.
Oh how I would love to have all the pocket knives that I lost over the years!
Did you know that worms have both male and female organs and when they successfully mate they both end up pregnant and produce a bunch of baby worms? I occasionally see pairs of night crawlers mating but only after a pretty heavy rain shower. With night crawlers both worms keep their tail anchored in a hole in the ground and if disturbed they separate and both slurp back into their holes quick and in a hurry. We had a thunderstorm yesterday afternoon and I had used up my last 5-6 worms that morning in our local lake so I went out last night to resupply my bait larder. Of the 40-50 worms I saw (Many escaped before I could get close and my mower is in the shop so the grass was not an ideal height) I only found 2-3 mating pairs. I collected about 3 dozen nightcrawlers which should be enough to catch between 2,000-3,000 local bluegills and green sunfish of which 50-60 should be eating size. :D
Earthworm Reproduction | HowStuffWorks (https://animals.howstuffworks.com/animal-facts/earthworm3.htm)
Now this one will have you up all night just thinking about it! Did you know that a centipede always has an odd number of pairs of legs? He may have 15 legs on each side or 17 or 23 but he will never have 16, 18, 20, etc. legs on a side.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centipede
Now I didn't know that.
Holidaying in the Cook Islands there is basically one native critter to watch for. A freaking big 4" centipede. They aren't actually dangerous, but they can bite.
So I will tell the kids to count the legs on either side. That way it will have scuttled away before it's problem. :D
Ian,
Just make sure it is not a "traumatic amputee" with missing limbs to mess up the count. :D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on July 03, 2023, 03:24:30 PMthe other blade is the best designed hook disengorger I have ever found.
I bought a cheap narrow flathead screwdriver and used a grinder to notch and it has worked great for years.
I wonder who it was that had so little to do and so much time on his hands to count those legs, was it you WV ?
I think I heard it on the news the other day. It was the result of a congressional study IIRC. ::) :D
Did you know we are in the middle of a huge mayfly hatch here on the Bluestone Lake and surrounding area? Mayflies don't just hatch in May but hatch throughout the summer months. I would estimate we have billions of Mayflies in a normal hatch. Every green limb and bush over the water's edge will be black with mayflies and if you bump a bush or limb you will immediately covered in a rising cloud of mayflies. They don't sting and are not dangerous but especially women and girls around here can be seen swatting and running from them. If you pitch almost any small bait, fly or lure under a low hanging limb it will disappear in a boil as various fish attack it. The sound of popping on the surface is a constant sound as sunfish slurp down these tasty morsels. According to the article below mayflies go through 2 winged phases and I know on our local lake the surface of the lake along the windward side will be covered so thick with the shells it is hard to get a hook into the water through them.
Birds are frantically feeding on them in the bushes over the lake and the water is boiling below and frequently you will see fish jumping completely out of the water to catch mayflies on low limbs.
The only problem catching a mess of fish in a mayfly hatch is getting the hook to an eating size fish before the small ones grab it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayfly
Did you know there is a popular sunfish called a shellcracker that feeds largely on snails and small mussels and such and has the ability to crack or crush the shells of their food source? They are in the sunfish family like bluegills and grow to respectable sizes and are very tasty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redear_sunfish
Did you know a common technique when flyfishing for bluegills and other relatively small panfish is once hooked to simply keep the rod up enough to keep tension on the line and strip the line in by hand and let it pile up under you in the boat or water if you are wade fishing? When I am fishing for bluegills I hook the line under my right index finger and hold it tight against the rod, pull in a few more feet of line with my left hand and repeat grabbing the line under my right hand until the fish is at the boat and I pull him in and unhook him. Then I just make a few false casts to cast and straighten the line back out in the water for my next presentation. Some people simply reel this fish in but this is much slower to recover the fish and then you still have to strip the line back out when you are ready to fish again. On larger fish that take longer to land reeling the fish in is more common.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on July 07, 2023, 09:20:59 PM
Did you know there is a popular sunfish called a shellcracker that feeds largely on snails and small mussels and such and has the ability to crack or crush the shells of their food source? They are in the sunfish family like bluegills and grow to respectable sizes and are very tasty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redear_sunfish
We used to catch quite a few shellcrackers when we lived in the lakes we fished around Shreveport, LA.
Edit: when we fished the lakes around where we lived in Shreveport :)
Do you know what a screech owl sounds like? If you lived here in southern WV last night you would certainly have heard them. In fact they have been calling during the day for a couple of weeks or more. A screech owl is only about 6" tall and looks like a grumpy old man but he can certainly let the world know he is around.
Eastern Screech Owl Sounds: Learn their TWO haunting calls! (2023) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqWWWfB9Ee4)
I've never caught a fish of any type that required me to use my fly reel. I just strip the line in like you describe, Howard.
Here in Central NY I hear screech-owls mid-to-late summer and later in the Fall, haven't heard them yet this year. I have nesting/roost boxes up and sometimes see them at the entry hole in the winter. Strangely, where I used to live they used the boxes to roost in in the winter, sometimes I would have 2. One year they nested and fledged young and a licensed bander banded them. Yet I don't recall ever hearing them there. Somewhere I read that the ones that are heard are often young that have recently dispersed from their parents' territory. One of my favorite birds. Did you know that they come in a gray phase, red phase and brown?
I did not know they came in different color phases. Do they change colors throughout the year or do they stay the same color their whole life?
I should clarify- what I meant by my earlier comment is that I've never caught anything big enough on my fly rod that I had to use the fly reel😁
BB,
I am with you. The biggest fish I have landed here in WV on a flyrod was probably a 10 lb carp that I spotted and tossed a cork popping bug to him and he slurped it down. I did not have to use the reel to land him. I just pulled line in by hand, held the tension between the rod and line with my index finger till I landed the fish, ripped his belly open and sent him back swimming in the lake.
Did you know a common item used in fly fishing is a small, barbed, metal eyelet that it inserted into the hollow fly line and is used to tie the leader on to the line? It looks like a small bream hook with barbs pointed toward the eye and the curved hook cut off. You insert the eyelet into the center of the hollow line and you then have an eye to tie the leader line on to. This eyelet slides through the rod eyes much easier and has less water resistance on retrieval than tying a knot to the leader and larger fly line.
Leaders are a whole 'nother topic with tapered leaders and double taper and straight leaders. I don't know what most of you use but for my simply fly fishing I use about 5'-6' of common monofilament fishing line. I usually use about 8 lb monofilament with one end tied to the eyelet and the other to the fly, bug or jig head.
Do you know the difference between a creek and a brook? That's okay, there does not appear to be any official definition between the two. A brook seems to be a little smaller and generally a small, clear, fast flowing stream and seems to be a more northerly term. A creek seems to be a little larger and maybe a little slower, deeper and maybe less clear. I have seen many rivers that looked to be smaller than other creeks I had seen. Now the difference between a creek and a crick is probably just a semantics issue.
To continue babbling about brooks, I recall a saying from the past. You can walk across a brook, jump over a creek, wade through a stream and swim across a river.
Of course this is also not entirely true, but I always thought of a brook as quite shallow and somewhat rocky. Creeks can flow for hundreds of miles before they become a river. Some don't and just end in a larger body of water such as a lake or a bay or empty into a river. In geological terminology, any flowing water can be referred to as a stream. Sometimes streams are within other bodies of water as in the gulfstream current.
So, where does a crick fall in that category? I always thought a crick was a little smaller than a creek. Brooks have to babble......
A crick is probably a brook in the south or mountains of Appalachia. ;)
Da crick is that funny lingo them there southers use when they ain't got much use for book learnin. The crick would be a brook or a creek. It arose out of the southern accents and their mangling of vowels.
In Maori a river is an Awa.
A stream is an Awaiti. Iti simply means "little".
Quite logical when you think about it. :)
Quote from: rusticretreater on July 11, 2023, 06:43:19 PMDa crick is that funny lingo them there southers use when they ain't got much use for book learnin. The crick would be a brook or a creek. It arose out of the southern accents and their mangling of vowels.
Book larnin can be way over-rated. How many people have you met in your life who were educated way beyond their intelligence?
Reminds me of the tale of the college professor who had a flat tire along the highway in front of the State Institute for the insane. He changed the tire but kicked over the hubcap with the lug nuts and they all fell in the storm drain and he could not get them out. He was standing there trying to figure what to do and afraid he would be late for the conference where he was presenting when a guy with a uniform of the institute was watching and spoke up and said "You know you can take one nut off each of the other three tires and use them till you get you to a parts place to get some more." The professor did as suggested and was ready to resume his journey. He thanked the man and said "That was a brilliant idea. Do you work here?" The man replied "No I'm a patient." The man said "But you were able to solve my problem when I could not." The inmate nonchalantly replied "I may be crazy but I ain't stupid."
Quote from: rusticretreater on July 11, 2023, 06:43:19 PMThe crick would be a brook or a creek. It arose out of the southern accents and their mangling of vowels.
The very first time I ever heard the term "crick" used was in NW Wyoming in 1973. I had no idea what he was talking about and he had never been to the "South". smiley_headscratch
MM,
Same here. The first time I heard the term crick (other than a sore neck) was either out west somewhere or up in Alaska. We always had rivers, creeks, sloughs and bayous.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on July 11, 2023, 05:58:16 PM
A crick is probably a brook in the south or mountains of Appalachia. ;)
Grew up in Iowa and we had cricks. In Wisconsin, the same was referred to as a creek. But nothing official either place, just local lingo.
In the area of Wyoming that I love to hang out, a crick is a seasonal stream but a creek is perennial. Crazy Woman Creek flows all the time, Squaw Crick only has water in it after a good rain.
That is the only place I've been where creek and crick have a meaningful distinction🤷
And a bourne only in winter, more of an upper freshet
There's little wet weather springs here that pop out at various elevations according to the water table in the mountain.
The Bourne Stream – Bourne Conservation Group (http://bourneconservation.org.uk/bournestream/)
Did you know that a slough (pronounced SLEW) is a stagnant or slow moving stream that connects to a river or lake? During periods of wet weather they can be fast flowing, alternate water courses to the river. Around home in N. Fla oxbow lakes were often called sloughs. In Australia an oxbow stream is called a Billabong.
Up here in the Adirondack Region we have rivers, streams, brooks and cricks!
It might say "creek" in most of the literature, but verbally with most people it's "crick"!
shall we begin route and pecan pronunciations? :D
Did you know another common item used in fly fishing is a small float or strike indictor? The last I bought were brightly color cork balls about the size of a 00 buckshot with a slit to the center on one side and several small pieces of wooden toothpicks. You tie your fly or small jig on to the leader then slip the strike indicator on to the line/leader, insert a piece of toothpick to keep the strike indicator from slipping off the line/leader. When using a sinking fly or a jig the indicator serves as a float to limit the depth of the presentation and also you can see the bright colored indicator moving showing a strike occurred under water.
The downside I have seen to using a strike indicator is it makes it much harder to cast the line and may adversely affect the presentation of your bait.
Quote from: doc henderson on July 12, 2023, 03:51:03 PM
shall we begin route and pecan pronunciations? :D
Doc,
I would address routes/roots but as to Pecans those of us I grew up solved that question long ago as follows:
Pecan (Pee Con) - a tasty nut in the hickory family used for pies and as an addition to brownies, cookies and cakes.
Pee Can - the white metal can/bucket with a lid a poor girl keeps under her bed. Irreverently referred to in some circles as a slop jar.
So what does the dictionary say:
"Pecan" is from an Algonquian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algonquian_languages) word, variously referring to pecans, walnuts, and hickory nuts.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecan#cite_note-6) There are many pronunciations, some regional and others not.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecan#cite_note-wikt-7)
The most common American pronunciation is one syllable: puckcon'.
There is little agreement in the United States regarding the "correct" pronunciation, even regionally.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecan#cite_note-8)
Being from the frozen north, I have no business commenting on pronunciation of pecan.
In regards to the fly fishing though I have a little experience.
I have used those barbed leader attachment things before, they work well for panfish but I think there are some concerns with bigger fish. There are also braided slip on loops to attach a leader with a square knot. They basically slip over the fly line like the old finger cuffs using some shrink wrap to secure it. Somewhat difficult to get through the eyelets.
These days, I tie a tapered leader directly to the fly line with a nail knot. As it gets shorter I tie on additional tippet as necessary. It is somewhat slow but it goes through the rod eyelets easily.
Strike indicators come in a wide variety of sizes and shapes. The simplest and probably lightest is just a piece of brightly colored synthetic yarn. I have also used some that look like tiny balloons and they definitely affect long casts.
I tried one of those barbed leader eyes once, I didn't care for it. The weight of it messed with the cast, and believe me, it doesn't take much to ruin my fly casting😂
BB,
You sound like one of those fly fishing purists with a vest and hat covered in assorted hand tied flies in every color and size. I bet you even use a tapered leader for more exact presentation. Them fish probably grab your fly first when it lands 4" from the real thing. :D
You probably should be the one doing the fly fishing "Do You know section here." ;)
BTW - did you know they make an automatic rewind fly reel? It has a spring under the cover similar to a smaller version of recoil spring on a chain saw or lawn mower. You tighten the spring by rotating the cover to determine how fast and how much line it recovers at a time. It has a little lever you depress with you little finger to activate.
I started out using one of these then many years later found how much heavier they actually are than a simple manual fly reel and I switched to manual and never looked back. When I got a manual hand crank fly reel was when I learned I needed to strip the line in when landing a fish rather than winding the reel which was very slow. I only fish for bluegills and other panfish and when the occasional small bass or such get hooked it is a real treat. I learned how to use the jig and float/indicator since I moved here to WV which also allows me to fish for crappie when they are biting near the surface.
Ha! I am certainly not that type of fisherman. Catching largemouth bass on a cork popper is a fun and exciting battle. In WI, and I know a lot of other places people fly fish for Musky, it's on my bucket list to try.
A common method of fishing for trout is to use a "dry-dropper" two flies, the dry fly acts as a strike indicator and a nymph below it. It can get interesting if you get two fish on, it can also get real messy casting.
And you've got it spot on with stripping line vs. reeling.
WV, I do use a tapered leader. But in flyfishing, as in most of my pursuits, my gear exceeds my abilities. I'm just trying to make the most out of the skill I do have😊
I was born in Wyoming at the foot of the Bighorn Mountains. I've lived in Minnesota since I was just 2, but I spent many a summer back out west as a kid staying with family. Even though I didn't fish out there much when I was young, those mountain streams just got in my head and did things to me. I'm surrounded by some of the finest walleye, bass, panfish, pike and musky fishing in the world and all I want to do is go catch 9"-10" brook trout up in the mountains🤷 That's ok, I have an uncle out there that dreams about catching walleyes. Grass is always greener on the other side I guess😊
Otis,
Yeah, casting double baits or using a strike indicator or a jig or such can be a real challenge. It is hard to make those back casts and stuff to strip out the proper amount of line to reach your target and if you are not careful when you make your forward cast you won't see your bait hit the water because it is hooked in the back of your ear. I can't personally certify that ::) but I have heard those things are hard to reach and unhook by yourself. ;)
I use a rolling forward cast more often to flip the bait to the next spot when using such.
Did you ever get out in a brier patch picking blackberries or be walking through a patch of tall broom sedge and suddenly hear the loud buzzing of an angry rattlesnake that you could not see? The chill bumps will be racing up and down your spine as you stand there rock steady scared to move. It is nerve wracking to say the least. Not knowing where the snake is you don't want to step forward, you don't want to back up and mostly you don't want to stay there! If I can't find him I will usually eventually back up using the thought process I have already passed there once and he didn't bite me so I might get by with it again.
A big diamondback or canebrake rattler has one pretty deep tone/pitch while a pygmy rattler has a much higher buzzing. Actually a diamondback or canebrake is probably more even tempered and possibly less likely to strike than a pygmy ratter who seems to act like he has chip on his shoulder.
Did you know that a non-venomous snake will often imitate a rattlesnake by rapidly twitching his tail against a dry leave making a rattling sound very similar to a rattlesnake? I don't know whether this is by design or just a nervous reaction when threatened or alarmed but the result is very much the same and sends those same chills racing up and down your down your spine. I have seen harmless black racers and other snakes do this and if they happen to encounter the right dry leaf to buzz against the sound can hardly be distinguished between that of a rattlesnake.
WV, Several years ago I was taking a nice long walk through wooded area on our property, it was a warm fall day. Nice and quiet so I sat down next to a large poplar tree to do some deep thinking (day dreaming) :D. Shortly I heard this buzzing sound right behind me, didn't sound like any bee or wasp I'd ever heard. I immediately thought rattler. We have them here though not often seen and my heart rate went up about 1000%! As I slowly began to turn my head around I couldn't spot anything, but then rolled away quickly. Then spotted a black snake doing exactly as you described. Took awhile for my heart rate to return to normal :D
Did you know that a hog nosed snaked will spread his neck wide and hiss and make false strikes at a threatening person or animal (Dad used to call them a "Spread'n Adder/Spred'nadder") then if that does not scare off the threat he will bite himself and roll over on his back and play dead? You can roll him back upright and he will just roll back over on his back. As I remember he has his mouth open to help with the act. If you catch one for a pet before long it will no longer do the playing possum act.
Did you know there are dolphins that live in fresh water and even a specific Amazon River species of pink dolphins? In December 2008 we did a tour of the Napo River which is a main tributary of the Amazon River in Ecuador and visited a remote lake along the border between Ecuador and Peru and encountered the pink Amazon dolphins. Pretty neat critters to see and very unexpected for me who did not know such animals existed.
Amazon River Dolphin (Pink Dolphins) | Species | WWF (https://www.worldwildlife.org/species/amazon-river-dolphin)
(Maybe this should be in the food thread?) Did you know there is a species of fish called a Sutchi? We had dinner in Daphne Ala this afternoon with my wife's cousin and aunt and they (Kraver's Seafood) had a fish listed on the menu as a mild, flaky white fish called a Sutchi. I thought it was just a UA grad who owned the restaurant and could not spell Sushi. I went ahead and ordered a combo plate with Sutchi and it was a decent tasting fish. From what I just read it is a SE Asian catfish. I probably should have known better than to order it as Daphne is just across the border a few miles from Mississippi and I am sure they have their share of Cajuns who will eat anything. ;) :D
It was actually pretty tasty. Maybe this is a new trend.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0308814608001787
Possibly a bit like those invasive Asian Carp? Apparently they are also quite good eating, but are going to need a fancy marketing name before they really catch on.
But that's been done before. Which would you rather sample... Kiwifruit or Chinese Gooseberries? Inventing that name was some marketing genius.
Ian,
As far as I could tell in my reding the sutchi are not being raised in this area. I assume they are just importing the frozen fillets. I hope we are not adding another invasive fish.
As to the name Did you know early in the colonization of India there was a large antelope which had exceeded the carrying capacity of the area and was causing big problems with the local population? The local name meant something to the effect of a "Blue Cow" so the Hindus would not kill or harm them and thought they were sacred. The simple solution by the British colonizers was to simply rename it a "Blue Horse". After that it was fair game to kill them and they solved the problem.
Sorry, we have been on the road 8 days and just got back in last night so I've missed a few postings here.
Back to the India scene also did you know the Brits were training local Indian troops and the practice at the time for speed loading their weapons was to put several cartridges in their mouth then spit them out into their hand or the chamber of the rifles? Unfortunately they greased the bullets with pork and beef tallow so they ticked off both the Muslims who would not eat pork and the Hindus who would not eat beef.
Did you know magnolia blooms have a nice lemony smell and are almost snow white but so sensitive if you touch them the petals will turn brown and die?
Did you know there are evergreen and deciduous species of Magnolias? The most famous species (Mississippi state flower - Magnolia grandiflora) is an evergreen with thick waxy leaves. Other species including Cucumber tree, Tulip poplar, Bigleaf magnolia, etc. are deciduous. Thinking back I guess the Bay tree which is a magnolia species and used as seasoning in many foods is evergreen too.
Did you know I saw a cottontail rabbit in my front yard last night? That may not be earth-shattering news in most quarters but it has been at least 5 years since I have seen on on our property. Cottontails and woodchucks were everywhere when we first moved here and the place was overgrown with multi-flora roses and they had plenty of places to hide from predators. After many years with a chainsaw, ax, Gravely mower/bush hog and goats we finally got rid of the roses but in the process lost the rabbits and groundhogs.
Hopefully they are making a return. It may just be a sign I need to mow my yard. ::) I've been traveling and sick since I returned and my fenced in yard is starting to look like a hay field.
WV, hope your're feeling better. If you have a field and mow it, then abandon it, the period of 3-5 years after abandonment is said to be best for cottontails, IIRC. The entire NE US has become largely long past this stage. Brushy areas have reverted to forests of large trees where rabbits don't do well. Around my house is a nice mix of lawns, shrubs and hedgerow and there are rabbits. Go just a few hundred yards out back where it is forested and they are very scarce.
First time I ever heard someone wish for groundhogs to show up! :o :o
I will be glad to send all mine to your house if you would like. lol
Woodchucks that come close to my house find themselves getting fed to the crows and vultures.
Did you know an old timers trick for removing the small bones in fish like suckers or chain pickerel was to soak or marinade the raw fish in vinegar or lemon or orange juice for several hours or overnight? Supposedly the acid on the vinegar or juice would dissolve the tiny bones in such fish.
If any of you have heard and tried this and can comment on the result, please do.
Not done it specifically to soften bones, but I've made ika mata, which is raw fish marinated in lemon or lime juice, then adding coconut cream etc. It's basically "cooked" and tender to eat, so I imagine it would have a similar effect on those smaller bones in those species.
A bit of research out of a Chinese university. about vinegar and bones in Silver Carp, seems to indicate it's a real thing, and explains the chemistry behind in.
Foods | Free Full-Text | Diluted Acetic Acid Softened Intermuscular Bones from Silver Carp (Hypophthalmichthys molitrix) by Dissolving Hydroxyapatite and Collagen (https://www.mdpi.com/2304-8158/11/1/1)
QuoteDiluted Acetic Acid Softened Intermuscular Bones from Silver Carp (Hypophthalmichthys molitrix) by Dissolving Hydroxyapatite and Collagen
Other sources suggest drinking diluted vinegar if you have a small fish bone caught in your throat. Again the theory is that it may soften it enough that you can then swallow it, and then stomach acids with deal with it completely.
I've had ceviche conch and fish, it makes sense that it would work. As the extension agent was preaching about food safety, cooking times and temps last week I mentioned lime juice cooked seafood. She didn't even want to go there :D.
A fun old science experiment for kids, is to soak an egg overnight in vinegar, and then it becomes a rubber egg.
UM, you may want to hard boil that egg first. :D ;D
actually you can then plop them in a narrow mouthed jar, like a pop bottle. 8) :o :o :o
Doc,
I was thinking about that same thing while I made this post. I don't know if they still teach that in HS science classes.
Oh...and you can plop them on top of your head, and they will not break!!! ;) :)
Yeah, try that. Take a picture and go post over on the "Did something dumb today" thread. :D
I did have a buddy who used to periodically dye a raw egg or two and include in the easter eggs.
Did you know if you are picking any wild or domestic fruit, berries, grapes, etc for making jelly, jam or marmalade you are supposed to pick approximately 1/4 of the fruit as unripe according to old standard canning recipes? Apparently the acid in the unripe fruit is required to make the mix "set" or "jell" or stiffen. Without the acid it is hard to cook the mux down to more than a heavy syrup. Since most of us only pick or can buy ripe fruit to compensate for the unripe fruit we often add lemon or sometimes orange juice to the mix. Of course this also changes the flavor of the finished product a little.
I didn't know that, but it makes sense now why my Chilli Jam recipe calls for 1/3 cup of white vinegar. That will be to adjust the pH, without changing the flavour too much. It boiled and thickened up quite nicely, maybe a bit on the runny side, but that makes it easier to spread thin. (You don't need much ;) )
Ian,
I can relate to that. My MIL always made great blackberry jam but it was more sauce/juice than jelly. Of course you can pretty much always thicken it more with more boiling time and I just figured she preferred it that way. They were very good but it was many years later before I tried making any and learned more about the process and ingredients. My mom had made lots from berries we picked but she always used powdered Pectin - Sure-Jel in hers.
Pickled fish is a popular old time recipe in Minnesota, and probably surrounding states. It is a way to not only preserve fish, but also deal with the bones in small fish as they soften or dissolve in the vinegar based solution. It is almost universally made with small northern pike.
Northerns as we call them, are nearly impossible to eat when less than 2 pounds because of the many y shaped bones in the filets that are tough to get out without destroying the filet (there are methods that deal with them but you need a bigger fish). The problem is, many lakes are just full of 1 pound northerns. They are aggressive and have razor sharp teeth, so they are really good at cutting your line😊
Because of this, northerns have gotten a bad rap. Names like snakes, slimers, and gators are common (they are really slimy). Everyone and their brother is after the MN state fish, the walleye, and the little northerns love to eat the same stuff walleyes do. So you tend to catch a ton of them when walleye fishing.
Back to the pickled fish- it is the perfect way to deal with small northerns, that are almost not edible otherwise because of the bones. The fish are fileted, cut into about 1" chunks, and pickled. There are lots of seasonings, onion and garlic added. There are many old family recipes, I would guess it is Scandinavian in origin. They had northern pike back there as well so a lot of those old country traditions transferred very well to Minnesota.
BB,
Your description is perfect for the chain pickerel of "jackfish" where I grew up in N. Fla which look almost identical to a northern pike. I have watched them suddenly appear out of nowhere in a clear creek and show up under my float where a small live bream had been seconds before. When I'd pull on the line I'd find it was already cut cleanly in two and the jackfish apparently never felt a thing. They were very boney fish and the people who tried to eat them often cut them cross-ways to cut the tiny bones like you describe into smaller pieces. They are one of the fish my maternal grandfather used to suggest soaking in vinegar to dissolve the bones.
I remember pickled fish as you describe were very common in Norway when I was assigned to a project there. I never developed a fondness for them.
Can you fry the post-marinated fish after the vinegar bath or does the vinegar have a real negative impact on the taste of the fish? Remember, those of us from the south want everything fried. :D
Pickled fish is not really my thing, either. It's just too much vinegar. It changes the consistency of the flesh, too, and makes it a bit rubbery.
I think the pickling permanently alters the taste of the fish. If there is a way to de-pickle and fry it, I've never seen it😊
Lutefisk goes the other way doesn't it, lye?
Quote from: Don P on July 31, 2023, 01:09:12 PM
Lutefisk goes the other way doesn't it, lye?
Lutefisk does go the other way, all the way to the trash can. :D Sorry, it's sacrilegious for me to say being a Nordmann, but frankly in my defense, many of my relations back in the homeland feel the same way. Just as they dislike Gammelost (some with extreme predjedous). I, on the other hand do tolerate Gammelost nicely, thank yo very much. Wish we could get it stateside, the real stuff that is. Mostly now it is only consumed by the older Norwegians, those who were raised on farms and know where the good stuff is. ;D Gammelost and Gjetost are two of my favorite cheeses but neither are to be taken in great quantities at a sitting like the milder modern stuff.
I always figured Lutefisk was one of the major reasons for the mass exodus from the various Scandinavian countries to America. :D
Speaking of Northerns, did you know that if you catch one, the scent of the northern on the lure we cause other fish to shy away from it. It will need to be washed to get other fish biting it again.
My dad's family from Sweden always had lutefisk and potato bologna (more like a pork sausage) at Christmas. The fish by itself really doesn't have much taste but with some cream white sauce, salt and pepper you could get past the consistency and it wasn't that bad :D
Other than the taste and the texture it ain't half bad.
So you're suggesting like grits? ::) ;)
Actually BT, you may have hit on a new taste sensation that will replace the sausage biscuit. I would bet a plate of properly prepared grits would make even Lutefisk edible - maybe not good but edible.
I wonder if there are scientific studies about feeding Lutefisk to long term hardened criminals and how successful it has been in reducing the number of repeat offenders. ::) :D (If I knew I was going back to prison and being fed Lutefiske every meal I would never repeat the crime or at least make sure the police never took me alive. ;D)
Hmm, sounds to me like a preseasoned dish. Batter dip and deep fry. Serve it with french fries and call it Authentic English style Fish & Chips with vinegar seasoning already added! 😜
John
That might work. :D
You'd have to serve with plenty of hot sauce available for seasoning.
A lot of this stuff was the only way to preserve food back in the day. It was the difference between going hungry or not, well in those situations I guess things can grow on you a little. However, my waistline indicates I am far from starving so I have no tendency towards survival dishes.
If you all want a real potent preserved fish, check out the "Surstromming Challenge". I thought about ordering my BIL a can of that stuff, because I knew he would pop it right open. But, I love my sister and didn't want to put her through that😬😁
Stinky Fish Challenge - Surstromming - Joe McCloskey Jr - Colorado Springs - YouTube (https://youtu.be/e-qflm0APTk)
Quote from: barbender on August 01, 2023, 01:15:32 AMA lot of this stuff was the only way to preserve food back in the day. It was the difference between going hungry or not, well in those situations I guess things can grow on you a little
Reminds me of a TV show that aired here a couple of years back, called "Intrepid Journeys". It was basically a couple of outdoors types that went out and re-enacted some of the early explorers journeys.
One I especially remember was a couple of guys that set out to explore the top part of the South Island. their plan was to go up-river from the Nelson area, and they hoped to discover some great new territory there, before reaching the upper West Coast near what is now Westport. Turns out it's mostly hills and gorges, although there is now a road there.
Anyway, they wanted to hire a couple of local Maori guides, and found a couple of locals willing to sign on. The Maori's condition was, their wives came along, and they would gather food along the way, as opposed to humping months of European supplies with them. The locals knew how to find food in the bush, and the explorers journals noted that some days they made little progress as the guides had found a great patch of bracken fern, and were digging up the roots to make flour, or were off catching eels or pigeons.
So after months of this, they reached the river mouth on the West Coast, and no one was there. The local tribe had headed North for the Winter. So they had to trek back up the river, over the Mt pass to get home. A couple of days from home the main guy ended up having a stoke, and is guides were loyal enough to carry him back to town. Bear in mind, they and their wives were fine and healthy on the food they had gathered along the way. He did recover and went on to become quite famous.
Seems a lot of those early expeditions did tend to ignore local knowledge about food supplies. Another one was a "Survivor" series. Cook Islands. A couple of weeks in, one of the challenges got you a free fishing lesson from some locals. Couple of local Maori rock up in a canoe, got down to the end of the Island, and hook up ~20 fish in as many minutes with a basic handline and crab for bait. Lil did a day trip to the same Atoll, and the guides caught them a fish fry up lunch in the same way, so it wan't put on for the camera. Likely it was the same guys as in Survivor? Anyway, the fish were there the whole time, and can be caught with a primitive (bone /shell / wood) hook. Their saying is that if there is coconut trees on an Island, they can survive there. They even have a method of fishing that Only needs coconut fronds (and a bunch of people).
Earlier K-Guy posted that if you catch a Northern Pike you need to thoroughly wash your lure to remove the scent before any other fish will bite/strike that lure. I did not know that but did you know along the same lines if you catch a possum in a box trap, you will not catch any more rabbits in that trap until it has been de-scented and the old timers always smoked it? I have seen a couple ways to smoke a box trap. One is to build a nice smokey fire and suspend the trap over it for a period of time to get the smoke smell. A simpler way was often to just cram the box full of dry hardwood (I don't know if pine needles world work equally well) and do a sort of flash burn. You would char the inside of the box slightly but not enough to harm any structural integrity.
that was funny BB.
Did you know that gravity works perfectly well in WV and large rocks periodically seek lower levels with impressive results?
I came back from our local Flea market Sunday and when I passed my local small engine shop, where I had just been talking to the owner 30 minutes earlier, I saw a large boulder sitting in the middle of his drive. I assumed the owner had placed there to keep people from parking in the area. Yesterday I took a sick chain saw to him and as I left I noticed the rock was gone so I asked him "What was up with the big rock in your drive? Did you decide to move it again?" He replied "No, I never put it there. It just fell off the mountain and you can see the path where it rolled down. I'm just glad it stopped where it was as 10' more and it would have knocked a hole in my shop and torn up some equipment." He was very lucky and had moved it to one side with his forklift.
I remember 7-8 years ago a similar incident occurred when a big rock rolled off the mountain, across highway 20 and through the brick wall and picture window of what at the time was our lone, Mexican restaurant. Fortunately it was at an off time and nobody was sitting there eating when it rolled through.
Not far from here there is a house down near the creek with a see-ment pond in the yard. Some guys were working on the hill out back and rolled a rather large new feature off into the pool :D
Did you know the main causes for rock falls/slides is trees, rain and freezing weather? Trees and shrubs grow on the side of steep slopes and the tiny roots get into every natural crack in the rocks and as the root grows it spreads the crack wider. Sometimes this is enough to crack the rock further. Often it allows rain water and snow runoff to get in the crack which then freezes and spreads the crack. Eventually the ice will force the crack to completely split the rock and depending on the angle where it is perched it will fall. The shape of the rock and the angle of the slope helps determine if it slides or starts rolling. As it hits other rocks on the way down it will either stop, bounce over or break more rocks free. As more break free they add more weight and break off more rocks and take down large trees and such. Rain loosened soil followed be freezing rain is the worse possible combination and as the trees break free and fall they are like dominos taking down more below and often a slide will take down wide strips of vegetation exposing even more rocks to rain, water and ice and start future rockfalls.
A number of years ago we have a prolonged rain which saturated the ground. A few miles from here a large section of a big hillside came down in a mudslide which took out some houses and maybe blocked a road. Can't remember all the details.
For us the worst is several days of slow, soaking rain which saturates the ground followed by a freezing rain where the rain sticks to the tree limbs and freezes and the weight breaks or pulls the trees over. Breaking limbs are bad but uprooted trees are worse. One at the top of the slope will fall and take out 2 below it and they in turn take out the 4 below them and you get a long wedge shaped mudslide. Black locust trees are among the worst culprits because they are shallow rooted and will uproot rather than limbs and tops breaking off like poplar, maple or oaks are more likely to do. Pines and other evergreens are bad because they have more needles to catch and hold the rain and ice but they are more likely to break off than uproot than a locust is.
I had a pet possum named Eatmore. I think if I ever get a pet baby groundhog I will name him Sausage.
Did you know that Velcro was designed after the inventor noticed Burdock seeds stuck to his wool socks? It is the same system of hooks and loops used by beggar tick and other clinging seeds that stick to cloth or an animals fur for transport.
My niece's husband is a decadent of Gorge de Mestral the inventor of velcro, he (niece's husband) is a biomedical engineer who has made a few medical inventions, one is a miniature ultrasound that he made for the ear (ear drum if I recall correctly). He and my nephew who is a computer engineer are now working for a company that is developing a lobster trap buoy system that the buoy goes to the bottom with the traps and is released to the top when signalled. The idea is to prevent the buoy ropes from entanglement in other marine life such as whales and sea turtles.
Did you know a large group of tortoises is called a creep?
Do they move very slow?
Did you know a group of skunks is called a Surfeit, an Array or a Stench? (I know - I thought they would be called politicians. ::))
https://a-z-animals.com/blog/what-is-a-group-of-skunks-called/
EDIT: Actually I would like to apologize to all the skunks out there for my previous comment. It was thoughtless and inconsiderate.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 06, 2023, 12:38:49 PM
Did you know a group of skunks is called a Surfeit, an Array or a Stench? (I know - I thought they would be called politicians. ::))
https://a-z-animals.com/blog/what-is-a-group-of-skunks-called/
EDIT: Actually I would like to apologize to all the skunks out there for my previous comment. It was thoughtless and inconsiderate.
This just made my day!! smiley_clapping smiley_clapping
Did you know a group of squirrels is called a Scurry or a Dray? A dray is also the term often used for a mother squirrel and her young.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 06, 2023, 12:38:49 PM
Did you know a group of skunks is called a Surfeit, an Array or a Stench? (I know - I thought they would be called politicians. ::))
https://a-z-animals.com/blog/what-is-a-group-of-skunks-called/
EDIT: Actually I would like to apologize to all the skunks out there for my previous comment. It was thoughtless and inconsiderate.
I don't think you need to apologize. I actually thought a group of skunks would (appropriately) be called a 'congress', but that term is used to describe a group of crows on the roost. Which I guess also fits, because both groups are sitting on they haunches, making occasional squawks about nothing, and accomplishing little if anything. ;D
What bothers me is when they do accomplish something😬
Yeah, crows can be real rascals when they get into something and they can make a racket while doing it.
Oh wait, you meant the other group. Well yeah, that's rarely good.
Did you know that when there is a sharp decline in a population of animals such as after a big die-off or such and the carrying capacity of the area far exceeds the population, the animals will breed at an earlier age and often have more litters per year than in normal times? Part of the reason for this is the young that do raise have a greater food supply and mature sooner.
.
Studies I have seen indicate that is carrying over into the human population with young girls with excess food and heavier weights starting to ovulate at younger ages than in poor regions. For example in Europe, America, or other wealthier regions the girls often ovulate before their teens while in poor regions of the world they mature later. This would also hold true for children of wealthy families in otherwise poorer regions of the world.
Maybe our resident doctors and medical experts can comment on more official studies and their observations than those I am referencing.
Did you know that deer in WV turn very red in the summer months then turn dark gray or brown in the winter months? I do not know the advantage of them turning red as it makes them much more visible to people anyway. Their winter coats blend in very well with the surrounding Fall and Winter colors but they really stand out in the summer greenery.
While sawing today a big old doe and the neighbor's gray cat came out a few feet from the mill after I had left it for a minute or two. The cat ran off quickly the doe just stood there while I talked to her. She walked a few feet and started browsing till I I cranked the mill then she left but not at a very high rate of speed and apparently not very far. Two of the were feeding 75' away on the top of a poplar I had felled and was bucking into logs. The chainsaw running did not bother them at all.
Over the years I have read many accounts of deer learning that the sound of a chainsaw is a dinner bell. Especially in areas of heavy woods and high deer numbers and in the winter when food is scarce. Loggers in New Yorks' Tug Hill area reported deer in winter browsing on Black Cherry tops. DEC deer biologists did not believe that deer would browse cherry until the loggers took the biologists out and showed them.
I know every beat up, rundown pulpwood and log truck I used to see in N. Fla and S. Alabama growing up had an old single shot .12 gauge shotgun on a rack in the back window and they got used. Those guys knew their chainsaw was a dinner bell for local deer and they took advantage of it.
Did you know there are some written and many unwritten rules of etiquette when driving on narrow mountain roads in WV? Many of our local roads are not wide enough to pass another vehicle when you meet. Typical will be a sheer mountain face on one side and a sharp drop off on the other. Often there will not be any guardrail. Also there will frequently be one paved lane down the middle with half a lane of graded/gravel on each side. You drive down the middle of the road till you meet someone coming then you slow down and pull your right wheel off on the right side on the graded area if it is wide enough to do so. If you see another vehicle coming the first one to come to a wider shoulder pulls off to let the other driver pass because there may not be a spot on his side of the road wide enough for him to do so. If you meet unexpectedly without room for either to pull off the driver on the downhill side backs up until he comes to a wide spot because it is easier to back downhill than uphill. If the driver on the downhill slope is pulling a trailer or such then the uphill driver will back up. Don't forget to wave to the other driver to acknowledge their courtesy.
I met a lady at a flea market a week or so back and she was not from around here. She said she pulled off on the grass somewhere and got stuck and almost immediately 5-6 locals in pick up trucks stopped, each with a cable, chain or tow strap and offered to pull her out. That is normal here as almost everyone carries a chain or tow cable in their truck.
These days you have to hope that the stuck vehicle has something to hook the chain or strap to. I carry a 4" wide nylon strap like they use to pick up stuff with overhead cranes. I keep a smaller strap in our Jeep Patriot.
I assume you are talking about a choker or sling. Handy item to have.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 10, 2023, 01:05:15 PMrules of etiquette when driving
Glad to hear there are still some places where driving etiquette is still applied. I'm frequently aggravated by rude drivers that tailgate, swerve in and out of traffic or won't let someone else merge over into "their" lane. It's not just in the city anymore either. I was nearly headended by another pickup on a gravel road recently. He came around a blind curve so fast he was sliding sideways. When I saw him coming I pulled as far off the road as I could and stopped. He barley regained enough control to miss hitting the front of my truck. It was so close that his side mirror hit mine when he passed. He never even slowed down and was gone in a cloud of dust.
A big factor for good driving etiquette up here is if you wreck or slide off the road you are not simply sliding over on to a shoulder or into a ditch. It may be a couple hundred feet before you stop rolling and flipping unless you are lucky enough to land in a big tree on the way down.
The truckers say that "one hasn't driven until they have driven in
West Virginia".
We are (Actually just me) are drifting a little far afield here but since we are talking about driving issues Did you know when you see big tractor trailer rigs parked on the entrance or exit ramps of the interstate highways that they are parked illegally? They are not supposed to park there but the number of trucks on the road any given night far exceeds the safe parking spots at truck stops and rest areas. If a trucker is not parked in a rest area or truck stop well before midnight there is a very good chance they will not find one and will have to drive all night, if they have the hours to drive and are physically safe to do so. If not they may just have to pull over on to the next entrance/exit ramp and hope the diesel cops are understanding (and most are). I think most of the cops realize it is safer to have a sleepy trucker illegally parked on an entrance/exit ramp of the interstate than driving on it.
I think we mentioned this before but did you know skunks like to dig up and eat yellowjackets?
I was reminded today as I was stacking wood and general clean up around the barn. Right in front of my tractor shed door I spotted several large pieces of paper nests scattered around on the ground then behind them next to/between a small walnut and a section of wood fence there was a fresh dug hole where the skunk had evidently dug them up. In this case having a skunk around is a good thing as my wife and I walk past that spot several times a week and she is allergic to such stings and I ain't real fond of them.
:D :D :D
They do it for the larvae and honeycomb, but not sure that they like digging them up. ;)
I don't know if they like the digging but that is the only way they can get to the larva. (I don't think there is any honeycomb in a yellowjacket nest.) Skunks will stand at the front of a bee hive eat the adult bees coming and going into/from the hive.
This hole was well over a foot deep and I have seen them several feet deep.
Quote(I don't think there is any honeycomb in a yellowjacket nest.)
True that.. do not store honey. My bad
Very often it seems to happen the night after I have accidentally "discovered" the nest and caused it to uproar. I've wondered if it leaves a scent when they get excited that the skunk picks up.
The pup got into his first nest a week or so ago. I saw him confused running around and rubbing his face in the ground when it dawned on me. Had to call him to me and then we both went for a run :D.
I think there may be a pheromone that gets the hive on attack mode. maybe other animals can smell it.
Hornet - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornet)
Doc,
The article talks about hornets nesting in dead trees and underground but I have never seen them do that. We just find them in the football shaped nests. We also find smaller wasps that look like yellowjackets in the football shaped nest sometimes and I don't know if they built them or steal them from our larger white faced hornets.
I knew that bees emit a pheromone when they sting and other bees will attack the same spot. I had not thought about the wasps emitting a pheromone to stir up the whole nest of them but it makes sense they would.
Did you know Flathead catfish are not native to Fla and are considered invasives there? I have a good friend who fishes with her son in catfish tournaments in S. Ala and N. Fla and she said if they catch a flathead in Fla they are told not to return it to the water.
I read an article recently where some Flatheads were coming in from rivers that originate in Ga and some had been released by local fishermen trying to "help". High water and flooding in the area had helped spread the flatheads to other nearby streams.
Over the years in New York, our DEC manages some small lakes and ponds for trout. Every now and then, someone will toss bullheads or something in there and destroy the trout population. In some cases, DEC will poison all the fish and re-stock more trout. In some cases it's just a matter of time before someone tosses in more bullheads.
In some cases here they will also stock ponds on private property, but there is a catch and you will be required to allow public access.
Not to many people go for that! ::)
I was told in Maine you have a private fish pond but it can't be over a certain acreage. I was told 7 acres, how accurate that is, i don't know.
Also there are lakes here being manage for trout that have had bass put in the and if you catch a bass they want it kept out.
Did you know that armored catfish is another invasive species of fish that is becoming a problem in Florida and I saw an article last week where they are becoming a big problem in Mexico?
These are the same fish you buy in pet stores to eat the algae in your aquarium. The problem is they outgrow their space and people release them into local streams and then they really start growing. We visited the Everglades several years ago. It was the dry season and most of the open water was in the canals dug as borrow pits to build the roadbed for the cross Fla highway and we saw several that looked to weigh several pounds swimming in the clear water of the canals.
The article I saw in Mexico said they had been imported from Brazil and had taken over the local streams. Local fishermen were using long gill nets and the one I saw had dozens of not hundreds in his net. Many of the locals called them "Devil-fish" and would noy buy or eat them.
They are edible and our guide and crew on our trip to the Amazon in Ecuador got out and speared and caught a bunch of fish one night in a remote area and included a couple of the armored catfish. Our guide cut them into large chunks and boiled them and ate them for breakfast. He said in that area people liked to catch them to feed to pregnant women and those who had just had a baby because the armored catfish was supposed to high in iron and was good for them. It sounds like the folks in Mexico need to do a good marketing program to develop a market for them. They do look like they would be very hard to clean.
I have one in our 30-40 gallon aquarium who has grown from a couple inches to a big fat 6" fish. He is doing a great job but looks like he will outgrow our tank. I don't know if our pet store will take him back or we will have to destroy him as I won't release him into our stream but hate to destroy him after all the hard work he has done and hours of enjoyment watching him.
https://www.solitudelakemanagement.com/invasive-species-spotlight-armored-catfish/
Ya, in the pet-stores they call them a Black Plecostomus.
Their skin feels like sandpaper!
That particular one is known as a Sailfin Pleco (Pterygoplichthys gibbiceps). Mine died a few years back, but was at least 15 years old at the time, and about a foot long. They are a cool fish to keep in a large enough tank as they are relatively peaceful, but armoured and able to defend themselves as well. As long as tankmates can't swallow them whole they are safe. As they get older they need more than algae to live on, and like fresh veges or small vege tablets that sink to bottom of the tank. Otherwise if they get hungry enough they may start eyeing up smaller tankmates.
Part of the reason they have become invasive is because they are freaking tough. They can actually breath air through their gut if the water gets stagnant, and can survive lower temperatures than most tropical fish.
A better species for a smaller tank is the Bristlenose pleco. They only grow to 3-5" max.
This is my old guy, fighting with an Oscar for the floating cichlid pellets on the surface.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/fish250210.jpg)
Did you know Oscars are another common invasive tropical freshwater fish found in the canals of the Everglades that people evidently released after they outgrew their aquariums? I saw a number of people specifically fishing for them in the canals along the road. The most common rig I saw was either a long cane pole or a spinning reel both using about a 1/8 oz jig head with a piece of nightcrawler, wiggler or earthworm on the hook. Apparently fish up to about one lb were pretty common and considered tasty eating.
Going out for the Oscars😊
A buddy of mine and I used to castnet blue tilapia in the springtime to sell in order to help support our fishing habit. In some lakes we would catch a lot of plecos, some were pretty good sized, maybe 20" or so. We would generally just toss them up on the bank. They are in just about every public body of water here.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 14, 2023, 09:38:41 AMDid you know that armored catfish is another invasive species of fish that is becoming a problem in Florida and I saw an article last week where they are becoming a big problem in Mexico?
They are plentiful in the St John's River in Florida. I've caught several in my canal and in crab traps. They can live an incredible amount of time out of the water and they are hard to kill. They tunnel under boat ramps and dig holes in the bank, very destructive. I don't think the alligators eat them.
Troy,
I had read they damage dams and such with their burrowing. I would be surprised if the gators don't eat them. I watched a gator in Louisiana eating a cooter turtle and he just munched right through the shell and swallowed it all. I think the problem is the gators just can't eat enough of them fast enough.
Several years ago I was around the river near Sanford. Saw a school of something and it turned out to be a school of armored catfish near the surface swimming around. Hundreds of them....
Caught one in a crab trap, threw it in the yard. Thing was still alive the next day. Sometimes I see them laying on the boat ramp and I try to gig them. They're tough! Got gators in the canal but still have the armored catfish. Wish the gators would eat more of them.
I imagine a gator would munch on one given the chance, but they generally hide under cover, or can put on a fair burst of speed if they need to. They come from the Amazon river area, which naturally has Caimen (a type of Alligator), so they must have some ability to avoid being eaten.
Did you know the gopher tortoise in Fla is a protected species? They dig a burrow in the sandy soil and live there. It is easy to recognize a fresh burrow by the tracks/drag marks in the fresh sand at the entrance and from fresh digging. A big tell if it is active will be the absence of spider webs across the front. When found on a proposed building site the gopher has to be relocated and if at the wrong time of the year that may be delayed to allow the eggs to hatch. This can be very costly to builders who may have to wait 6 months or more to move the tortoise before they can build their new condo or strip mall.
It is not that hard to catch the gopher using a simple pit trap, often a five gallon bucket buried level or slightly below the level of the ground at the entrance of the hole. Cover the pit with paper or thin cardboard and Mr T comes right out and falls in.
Warning - I did this in Albany Ga and used a nearby 30 gallon trash can from a dump site and Mr. T's rattlesnake roommate fell in and my wife was not some happy when she went to check it for me with my then 6 y/o son and 4 y/o daughter.
Ooops - posted in wrong thread. Plz disregard. Corrections made.
I mentioned pitting gophers in a previous thread but did you know the old timers used to also snare or hook them?
A snare was a heavy cord with simple loop tied to a peg draped across the front of the hole/den. The gopher would generally get his neck and one flipper/front foot caught in it when he crawled out or back into his den. The risk was he would struggle and strangle himself.
A hook was usually made out of the round wire off an old mattress. The wire was about 3/8" thick IIRC. A loop was made in one end to hold when pulling. The other end had a hook made in it and the tip/point was sharpened. You'd push the heavy wire down hole and it would bend around the curves and such. At the bottom you'd push and pull till the point hooked under the shell under a leg or above/below the head. Then you pull hard to drag the gopher out. With both front flippers dug into the sides of the den a big gopher is very hard to pull out. My old mento told about hooking the truck or mule to one they could not get out and pulling him in two. Besides the hard work the hook was almost certainly going to injure or kill the gopher.
BTW - there is every reason to expect you would occasionally hook and pull out an angry rattlesnake, possum or armadillo too. The possum and armadillo would be okay but if you pulled out a 6' diamondback rattler things could get real interesting real quick!
The easiest and safest way to catch the gopher was with a pit trap. The ground is usually soft sand and easy digging and a 5 gallon bucket is usually pig enough for most big gophers. A gallon coffee can would work for smaller ones. You can gauge from the hole size the size bucket you need. Just be care when digging and working around a gopher den as they are often used by rattlesnakes.
In Fla you should check and you probably need a permit to capture and relocate a gopher tortoise and you can no longer keep them as pet as we used to do or eat them as old timers used to do.
We will wander a little more for today's topic. Did you know a fairly simple way to save your venison and other wild game is to can it using a pressure cooker and mason style fruit jars?
Canned meat prepared this way is very good and quick to use. The meat is cooked and preserved in the jar. You can open and drain the juice from a jar, toss it in a skillet, chip up a little onion add BBQ sauce and heat through and serve on a bun for BBQ. Peel and dice up 5-6 taters and a big onion, brown this in a cast iron skillet or Dutch oven and add a jar of drained deer meat, season with salt, pepper and Worcestershire sauce for hash. Drain, heat, add a can of mushroom soup and serve over rice or mashed potatoes sort of like a stroganoff. Drain and heat and make sandwiches out of it.
To can venison, and I assume most any other wild meat, debone it and pack tightly into canning jars up to the rim and tighten the lids and rings on the jars. You'll have about 1/2" of air space between the meat and the lid. We use pints because more is too much for the 2 of us most of the time. I normally just can the trimmings I get off of my deer but you could cut up and can the other cuts too. I don't add anything to mine but some people add a touch of salt, pepper or other seasoning. Put the jars in a pressure cooker per manufacturer instructions, close, seal the top, heat and bring up to 10 lb pressure and reduce the heat to just hold the pressure. Cook 75 minutes for pints and 90 minutes for quarts. Take off the heat allow the temp and pressure to drop, open the cover of the cooker, Tighten the rings and set them aside. Make sure they have all sealed and the lid stays down.
Meat prepared this way will last for years and is very tasty and handy to use. Many sites I visited do not recommend hot water bath style canning of meat as it does not get the temps high enough to safely kill all the bacteria.
I saw some fruit jars in our local grocery last week and they were priced well over double what I've ever paid for them. One good thing about them is that with proper care and handling they can be used many, many times
.
I usually can a few jars of venison every year.
I use the old pressure cooker that Mom gave me a long time ago, it's a small one, it will do four regular pint jars, not wide mouth at a time.
I remember back in the winter of 2016, I found a quart jar of venison that I had canned back in 1996, that's 20 years before, and it was the same flavor and texture as last years canning, and just as good!
I fill my jars tight, and up to the bottom of the neck!
The book for my pressure cooker says once it's reached pressure, cook for an additional 45 minutes.
Chuck,
I bet you a bowl of grits if you check you will find you are cooking at 15 lbs of pressure instead of 10 lbs which would be cooking at a hotter temp and require less cooking time. My pressure cooker does 7 quarts or 10 regular pints/8 wide mouth pints.
We had canned corned deer hash for lunch. I killed a big doe during ML season last year to make smoked sausage and corned the backstrap, tenderloin and brisket and once they finished the corning processing I canned them in pint jars just like I do raw deer. I will likely do those parts on all of my deer that way in the future. The only difference is I may use half pints and that is a better size for me and my wife. That way avoids using up freezer space and it is instantly ready to eat.
Picture of a gopher I saw today in my neighbor's yard.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/IMG_7382.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1692493814)
This was a medium sized one, probably 12" long (shell). He was a little shy and pulled his head in. I've had them walk right through my shop while working.
Cavey,
Good looking gopher. I hope he is a resident and not a captive neighbor. We had many as kids and I had a few for my kids when they were growing up and we were stationed in Albany Ga. They are totally harmless, gentle creatures and except for the burrows and sometimes snacking on somebodies pes or peanut vines I don't know of any harm they do.
Did you know that rattlesnakes will swim across parts of the ocean? The below article talks about confirming an adult eastern diamondback rattlesnake swam at least 5 miles from Parris Island Marine Base to Hilton Head Island. When I was stationed at Parris Island in the early 1980's I heard people talking about seeing one swimming out to sea while they were fishing near there. We knew there were rattlesnakes and a fellow Lt got bit while in the field with his series. He'd taken a hammock and tied it between 2 young pine trees and when he got up in the morning a big rattler bit him just above the boot top. (He had also been bitten by a cottonmouth in La so was a bit of a magnet for them). It apparently was a dry bite and after seeing the corpsman and being released he just loosened his boot strings and went on with training.
Our Series Gunnery Sgt was out for a run one day at lunch and caught a 5-6 ft eastern diamondback and draped it across his shoulders and ran another 3-4 miles till he finished his workout. There was no risk the snake would twist free as I remember it had suffocated or he had broken it's neck by the time he finished his workout. As I remember he ate it.
I was amazed to read in the article they have caught and tagged a big /giant female they nicknamed "Hussie" that is over 15' long! I thought 8' was about the biggest on record. I bet the recruiters don't tell many of their recruits about Hussie when trying to get them to enlist!
World?s biggest rattlesnakes can swim from Parris Island to Hilton Head (https://www.yahoo.com/news/world-biggest-rattlesnakes-swim-parris-090000102.html)
Wow! A 15' Eastern diamondback rattlesnake on Parris Island USMC Base and nobody comments?
If I saw one that I'd probably think it was a python and probably do somethinn stupid like try to catch it or something.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 21, 2023, 12:45:20 PMWow! A 15' Eastern diamondback rattlesnake on Parris Island USMC Base and nobody comments?
Trying not to think about it. :D
If you rush down to your local USMC recruiting office they may be able to sign you up for the next summer class. That should put you out at Page Field training area before the weather starts to cool off and "Hussy" should still be active.
I'm with Hilltop. I ain't got time for that stuff. Our rattlers are 'protected' here. Was working a bif forest fire a half dozen years ago and one guy on the crew had a sidearm for snakes, and we saw plenty coming out of the burn area. One of the State DEC guys saw it and asked. The guy said "for snakes if they get too close". The DEC guy said, 'if you shoot a rattler I gotta give you a summons'. The Firefighter says 'if he comes too close I'm gonna shoot him anyway. Your paper is easier to deal with.' Me, I just step out of the way.
I noticed at the county fair the recruiters don't even look up when I walk by, maybe I just hadn't noticed before :D.
I suspect at 15' he must have been getting pretty thin. IIRC this one was about 7'
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/rattlersm.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1192055722)
Did you know the common practice to catch rattlesnakes in Fla, Ala and Ga and possibly other areas where gopher tortoise lived was to chase the snakes from the gopher holes where they often shared housing with the tortoises? A garden hose would be run down the hole and used like a stethoscope to listen to see if they heard a gopher blowing or rattles clicking down in the hole. If they heard rattles they would pour a spoonful of gasoline into the hole and blow the fumes down into the hose which would chase the snake out of the hole. I have heard of people squeezing the juice from an orange, refilling the orange with gasoline and rolling it down the hole. Once the snake left the hole he could be caught by hand (Not me!) or with a pair of snake grabs (How long a handle did you say I could put on one of these grabs?).
Before you attempt such check local regulations as I know Fla has pretty much outlawed such as the gopher tortoises were being killed on injured in the process.
You cross near where that one was caught pretty often, he was up on Big Walker Mt. near the tunnels.
Don,
I'd bet it was a big canebrake/timber rattler as we are too far north for the Eastern diamondback IIRC.
Yes, he was a timber rattler if I remember right, one of those guys was our plumber on the job at the time. It's been awhile, that was back when we really had to shrink our pics to store them. You'd probably be dealing with that snake's grandbabies by now. Hmm, must be something about that mountain and plumbers. It made me remember a job several years before that, our plumber came in late, bedraggled, worn out. He had shot a big bear up on Walker and he said every time he tried to move it, it went further down the mountain where he did not want it to go. He had spent all day cutting and packing out.
Not being a plumber, I'm kinda scared to go up there.
Did you know the rattlesnakes with the worst temper appear to me western diamondback and the pygmy rattlesnake? I have never been around western diamondbacks but hear they are responsible for most bite in the western USA. The pygmy rattlesnake seems to have a Napoleon complex with a real chip on his shoulder and seems to want to make up for his small size with an aggressive attitude. Both seem to be species better left alone.
You will hear of many tales of people stepping right beside an eastern diamondback or timber rattler and it either did nothing, crawled away or finally started to rattle as a warning but made no attempt to strike.
I agree about the pygmy.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0951.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1278712111)
That rattle is no more than a quarter inch long.(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0958.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1278712113)
This, probably female, had the worst attitude that I have ever seen a snake have. I wish that we had opened her up to see if she was pregnant.
Is that different than the little prairie rattler we ran into in the NE sandhiils?
Don,
I think the western diamondback is much larger than the prairie rattler. Isn't it pretty ill-tempered too?
Lynn,
I have heard the pygmy rattler buzzing described as very high pitched and people think its an insect or such where an eastern diamondback or canebrake with have the chills racing each other up and down your back. I don't even like to hear them buzzing in a glass cage!
I have never heard a rattlesnake rattle.
we had big rattlers in western Ks. Here in the Wichita area, I have only seen Massasauga. I had one in the yard my dog alerted me to. I have seen several dead and brought to the hospital after a snake bite for ID. the one in my yard, got injured as I dethatched the yard. was resting on the sidewalk. it had rattles but made no sound.
We get a rattler every other year or so. To me, they sound like a sprinkler hissing. I stop and think, the sprinklers shouldn't be running now or, there isn't a sprinkler over there!
Quote from: Magicman on August 22, 2023, 08:52:18 PM
I have never heard a rattlesnake rattle.
I am amazed. I figured they were common and you'd have heard many of them in your area.
I've encountered and heard them while picking blackberries and could not see them in the briers. I remember one in tall broom sage along the narrow, overgrown path to my grandfather's garden in Dixie County Fla when I was a kid. I could never see them. I did not want to go forward or backward but sure didn't want to stay there! I think in both cases I retreated backwards figuring I'd already passed that way once and he didn't bite me the first time so maybe he wouldn't on the way out.
They sounded a lot like a box of wooden matches shaking. I know they sometimes lose their rattles when they shed or get them hung on something and they break off and the snake will shake his tail but no sound.
Did you know that snake venom is a modified form of saliva used primarily to immobilize/kill its prey and also aids in the digestion of the prey? It is also used for defense. The nature of the prey often determines how toxic it is in the snake. For example a snake that primarily eats ground dwelling mammals like rats, squirrels and rabbits will likely have a less toxic venom than some jungle snake that mainly eats birds. The birds must be killed or immobilized almost immediately or the snake will lose the prey while ground mammals can be tracked and found after they are bitten. The snake gets on the animals trail using it forked tongue type organ to taste the air where the prey passed until it finds and eats the dead or dying prey.
Snake venom is used in many medical applications and is very valuable for that. (It better be valuable and high paying if they expect me to be milking a king cobra!!!)
Do you know the difference between a raven and a crow? A raven is bigger, about the size of a red-tailed hawk with a wingspread of 3.5'-4' and has a bigger beak. A raven also has a bit of a point to its tail as seen when flying. A crow is smaller and about the size of a pigeon with a smaller beak. His tail looks sort of squared off when flying.
Common Raven and American Crow Identification - NatureMapping (http://naturemappingfoundation.org/natmap/facts/crow_vs_raven.html#:~:text=Ravens%20differ%20from%20crows%20in,inches%20from%20head%20to%20tail).
Plus the Raven walks around saying "Nevermore".
Ravens have feathers that come farther down it's bill. They are a really neat bird. One unique thing about them- on a really cold northern Minnesota day, you can look up into the sky and see a lone raven flying over. At -20°F, I just think about how cold it has to be up there, and then I wonder where it's going? Where could it be traveling on such a cold day when all of the other birds are hunkered down, with their feathers fluffed up?
Quote from: barbender on August 24, 2023, 04:38:42 PM
Ravens have feathers that come farther down it's bill. They are a really neat bird. One unique thing about them- on a really cold northern Minnesota day, you can look up into the sky and see a lone raven flying over. At -20°F, I just think about how cold it has to be up there, and then I wonder where it's going? Where could it be traveling on such a cold day when all of the other birds are hunkered down, with their feathers fluffed up?
Ravens are much better than crows, have lots of different sounds they make and they're not just "caw caw caw"ing all day lol
Crows can't glide like a raven can they're quite a lot bigger than a crow, many people can't tell the difference between a raven or crow though
Magpies and Ravens, favorites of mine.
They stick around in the winter, can eat or hunt almost anything and are jokers with a sassy sense of humour. Watching three ravens gang up on a tethered husky is better than anything on Netflix. That dog won't know that its favourite meat bone is gone until the ravens are cackling at it from fifty feet up.
Ravens have many different vocal sounds, depending on the time of year and what's going on in their life, one sound is like "awk", and another is like a metalic sound, plus many others!
Ravens will also compete with Eagles over carrion, but the Eagle being the biggest, strongest, and deadliest WINS!
Also, Ravens don't walk when they're on the ground, they hop!
In the winter I put out offerings for the scavengers. Red-tailed Hawks are a notch above the ravens for their turn to feed. It's commical how a raven will work its' way up close to the hawk, then snatch a morsel then back off. While working as a volunteer on a nesting bird survey, a friend and I have found them nesting inside the salt sheds at highway departments. In the past 11 years I know of 7 different sheds used by ravens, some 2-3 years in a row.
Did You Know? In the most recent issue of New York Outdoor News is an article about chronic wasting disease. Some reasearchers fed deer meat with the prions that cause CWD in it to captive cougars and bobcats. When the waste came out the other end of the animals' digestive system, most of the prions were gone. Those prions are a kind of protein so maybe the cats digest it or possibly retain the prions in their bodies.
That is interesting.
I wonder if they retained the prions or broke them down during the digestion process?
WV, that's one of the $ 64,000 questions. I'm sure the researchers will work on fiquring that out.
This one may be a bit of a stretch so bear with me. Do you know if various mother mammals have the instinctive urge to nurse their young when they hear a hungry young one crying?
I remember we were visiting a pygmy village in the Central African Republic in June 2003. The women were all half naked and I heard a baby cry and noticed every nursing mother in the tribe suddenly started automatically leaking milk from their breasts. I wonder if this is true of all mammals or just humans?
Did you know historically that Pygmies did not farm? They primarily hunted and gathered. They were not big on fishing. They were experts in knowing what plants were edible and could be used for building materials and medicines. They typical build relatively temporary houses and moved often when resources in an area had been depleted. Attempts to settle them into permanent locations and have them farm and take on steady jobs have generally been dismal failures with the pygmies becoming alcoholics, drug users and beggars. Previously they were self sufficient.
Did you know pygmies in Africa make their homes out of limber poles and leaves? They start by cutting a bunch of limber poles and stick both ends in the ground to make an igloo shaped dome. They leave space in the front for an opening but cross and weave the other poles between each other for strength. They lace them at the top and weave in and out and add parallel poles to strengthen the frame and attach the covering to. Once the framework is up they collect a bunch of large leaves and start tying and weaving them into the frame starting at the bottom and overlapping them like our shingles or shakes so they shed the rain. A quick temporary hunters hut may only be about 5-6 ft in diameter. and maybe 4' tall at the center while a permanent hut may be 12-15 ft in diameter and 8-10 feet tall in the middle. For their permanent huts in their villages they keep adding leaves to reinforce and improve the watertightness of their dwellings and to replace leaves that dry out and shrink.
A pygmy can throw together a serviceable hunting hut in pretty quick order.
Did you know that sand and cow manure are often mixed and used as building material for huts in African villages? Properly mixed and applied you would swear it is poured in place concrete. It is durable and easy to repair or replace if the need ever arises. I assume they make a form work of limber brush for the wall and apply the mixture like the Masai do with fresh cow manure when building their huts in Kenya.
Did you know a lot of the foods dishes from Norway traditionally involved preserved meats, fish and vegetables such as smoked or pickled items? Apparently this was because the growing season was so short they had to collect as much food as they could when the weather permitted and preserve it to see them through the long winters/non-growing seasons.
Did you know that the name for a moose in Norway is an Elk? The first time I visited Norway our Noggie daughter's dad was showing me a big "Deer" head he had mounted in the living room. It looked like one of our elk so I asked him" If this is a deer, what is an elk?" He found and hunting magazine with a picture of a moose and said "That is an elk." Keep that in mind - a Norwegien Elkhound is a moose hunting dog (at least that is what it was bred to do to chase the moose out of the brush to the hunters.
My sister foundered on fresh garden fare when she returned from her exchange year in Trondheim. I think the great joy had been the orange she got at Christmas.
On 3rd world building with manure. Well, don't go licking the chink on an old cabin is all I'm gonna say :D.
Don,
Thanks for that Chink licking advice but I think most of us readers are pretty safe from that hazard (but it never hurts to know such things :D).
Moose is an Algonquin Native American language family word. So the word for moose in the Ojibwe tribe that I am descended from, is moose😊 There was a Chief Mosomo who lived locally in the late 1800-early 1900's, his name is would be pronounced moose-uh-moo. There are still place names named after him, (Mosomo Point, Mosomo Campground) but everyone pronounces it moe-suh-moe now, because of how it was spelled.
There was never any standardized spelling for Ojibwe words, so the same word may be spelled several different ways depending on whoever heard it and wrote it down. Not to mention, in a non-written language there were a lot of different dialects.
I've seen it theorized the the Ojibwe name "Gichii Zhiibii" or "Great River" for the primary water course up here may have gotten twisted into, Mississippi.
Here is a fun little Ojibwe word-
"miini-baashkiminasigani-biitoosijigani-bakwezhigan"
That's how you say blueberry pie. Some of you guys would have the pie eaten before I got done saying what it was😂
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on August 30, 2023, 11:40:43 AM
Did you know that the name for a moose in Norway is an Elk? ......
Took me a day or two to get that one straight when I was over there, but the one that really the me for a confusing and slightly embarrassing experience was "Oxen". My cousin kept mentioning the 'oxen' they raised on their farm which I thought was somewhat odd in my perception of Norsk agriculture. I asked what they raised them for and she said "meat". So when I stayed at their farm I asked to see the barn and these oxen. Imagine my surprise when the door opened and there stood a mess of beef cattle. ;D :D
The Norwegian word for "queue' and 'cow' sound pretty similar and one of my cousin's in law that was Canadian had a lot of trouble with that one. They use the word queue to describe any line and particularly backed up traffic. He was late for a meeting one day and apologized for being late by saying (in his best norsk) something like 'I'm very sorry I am late but you can't imagine how big that queue was getting through the roundabout.' but strictly translated it came out as ".. how huge that cow was blocking the roundabout." :D :D
Incidentally, Norwegians make an excellent Moose Peperoni type thing they call Elkapolska (spelling is likely wrong) and I loved that so much that I may or may not have snuck some of it home with me. Good Stuff. ;D
So much can be lost (or at least misunderstood) in translation. In Norway we have "elg" (=moose) and we also have "hjort" (=red deer Cervus elaphus), which is closely related to the elk/wapiti (Cervus canadensis) in N. America. In the Germanic languages, some variation of elg/elk has traditionally, on this side of the pond, referred to a moose.
We also have reinsdyr (=reindeer/=caribou), and we have rådyr (=roe deer) for which there is no N. American equivalent (a Bambi-sized deer). The roe deer are the ones that eat you flowers and vegetables, if not fenced-in (the flowers and vegetables, that is ;D).
All of these "deer" are hunted in Norway. Moose season begins in much of the country in a little over 3 weeks.
Twar beat me to today's topic I was considering. 8)
Now you know when you talk about deer in Norway you are probably talking about a subspecies of the European Red Deer which is much larger than our whitetail or mule deer and closer to our USA western elk. In fact it bugles when in rut to contact a mate like our western elk do. As I read about them they are a little smaller than the rest of the European Red Deer/Stag from which they are descended.
Our Norwegian daughter (Former Exchange student from 1991-1992 school year) who is visiting with us says when they kill a male with over 12 points they refer to that as a crown. She and her dad hunt them in her home area.
The Norwegian reindeer do look very much like our caribou from Canada and Alaska but I think they are a little smaller and do not think they are closely enough related they can interbreed but it is possible they can.
The Roe deer are similar in size to the Fla key deer. Ruth said she killed one a few years back that weighed about 20 kg or 40-45 lbs.
thanks for the firsthand info twar.
Did you know the Red Deer/Stag of New Zealand were not native and were originally established from herds brought from England and Scotland to establish a huntable population? The history of them is interesting with them becoming too plentiful and culls conducted with the deer air lifted to slaughterhouses/processing plants and the meat being sold and eventually deer farms being set up to raise them for sale and export more economically and efficiently. Maybe @Ianab (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=460) came chime in as our expert on the scene about more history and personal observations of how the Red Deer has impacted the people and country.
https://www.deernz.org/home/the-deer-difference/our-history/#:~:text=Deer%20are%20not%20native%20to,soon%20established%20in%20both%20islands.
Yeah, deer are a pest species here (apart from the farmed ones). The natural forest has never evolved with browsing mammals present (only birds). So a large deer / goat / pig population has a pretty devastating effect. There are also no natural predators for those introdiced species, so they tend to multiply out of control. Basically you can get a Canopy Collapse, where all the seedlings are eaten, so as mature trees die off, nothing is there to replace them.
Thanks Ian.
Did you know, the last I read, that Australia exports camels back to the mid-east, especially to Saudi Arabia? The Arabic camel was an introduced species to Australia and it seems to have thrived and the articles I read indicated they had adapted well with minimal damage to the environment. Their soft pads spread out on the soft desert sand areas and do not contribute much to erosion and such like hoofed mammals would have done.
In some case they have become too populous and have had to be culled. There are mixed feeling about camels in Australia.
Australia's wild camel dilemma: to cull or cultivate? - Nikkei Asia (https://asia.nikkei.com/Life-Arts/Life/Australia-s-wild-camel-dilemma-to-cull-or-cultivate#:~:text=About%201%2C300%20are%20part%20of,Arab%20Emirates%20in%20recent%20years).
Did you know there was a law on the books in Arizona making it illegal to kill a camel? In the 1800's Arabic camels were brought to America and experiments on their use for military and mining use were conducted with relatively negative results. Some camels were released and they and others were protected by law to keep them from being accidentally shot in some cases. As I understand any feral camels pretty much died out and as far as I know there are no herds of wild camels still running around the American west.
https://www.obscurehistories.com/post/the-law-against-killing-camels-in-arizona
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22511/DSCN2524.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1345596796)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22511/DSCN2531.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1345597094)
The red deer do get big. Have a farm in the next town over. They sell the meat and horns.
Looking it up, there are ~14,000 deer farms around NZ, with about 830,000 head. So yeah, farming deer is a thing. Main thing is deer proof fencing, like you can see in Peter's pictures. About 7ft tall netting, they laugh at anything less.
Since Ian mentioned the height of fences required to keep deer inside an area did you ever watch a deer or African antelope jump a fence? You'd probably think they would want to get a good running start and get their speed up then as they approach the obstacle jump over it. More often than not they will walk casually to the fence, come to a complete stop with the fence practically brushing their chest, kind of squat down and leap up propelling themselves up and over the fence with their powerful hind legs while lifting their front feet tightly against their chest. Just as they reach the center point they lift their hind legs to clear the top of the fence. It is a very graceful maneuver and thrilling to watch.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 04, 2023, 08:42:55 AMIt is a very graceful maneuver and thrilling to watch.
Yes, but less thrilling when the fence is the one around your vegetable garden.
Did you know that instead of jumping a fence as described above an African Oryx, the ones with the meter+ long horns, will walk along a tight barbed wire fence until he finds the spot he likes and lower his head under the bottom wire and just push his way on through the fence? The sharp barb wire fence just slides along his long, curved horns until it reaches the tips and slides off. It may slap him on the rump as he passes through but he is already through the fence by then.
Did you know that whitetail deer can smell a worm in an acorn? When I was studying Wildlife Biology at AU they had some pen raised deer and they fed them a bunch of acorns from local oak trees. The deer readily ate many but rejected some. Some poor grad student had to re-collect those rejected acorns and open them up and in every case they found a worm in them.
maybe they could hear them? My dogs can hear a mole underground and pounce their nose into the hole. 8)
I don't want to appear argumentative but I would bet that almost every acorn had a worm in it. It would be interesting to know why they rejected some acorns but it's going to require a more rigorous study. I'm sure that a government grant could be obtained to support the research, as long as it employed a lot of people and required a new headquarters building in DC and several new facilities in other parts of the U.S.
Doc, I do know that dogs (and cats) can smell moles and also hear them digging. (I think there were several govt funded research projects that confirmed that. lol)
I know for certain some if not many of our acorns do not have worms in them but I am sure if they sit long enough they are much more likely to get one in them.
How do I apply for one of those government grants and tap into that funding? :D
When you fill out the application, you will get approval quicker if you add that you checking to see if the worms cause them to create more methane gas. smiley_jester
Did you know that if you go through the back issues of The Journal of Wildlife Management, there is one article in there about Rectal Temperatures of Hibernating Bears in Minnesota. I am sure that author/researcher is working for the government somewhere today (quite possibly in an elected position somewhere, :D)
(The previous comments about Gov't funded projects reminded me about seeing that article. :P ::))
Funny thing is, the guy that did that study probably wrote a some papers and then a grant application to do that study. I can just see the folks on the grant review board reading it a passing it around. "Oh yeah, we GOTTA give this guy the grant and see how THIS turns out." :D :D
It is kind of amazing how fast some animals and birds can determine if a nut or seed is good or not. I suspect that birds will bite down on a sunflower seed and tell if it is good. The ones that were wormy will be soft and the good ones will be firm. I think it's true that dogs hear voles underground. I've watched Short-eared Owls fly around over a snow covered field and plunge through the snow and come up with a meadow vole.
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A tour company in Akaroa have "Dolphin Dogs". Well regular dogs, but trained to alert on the sonar and chatter of the small local dolphins. We can't hear them as they are too high pitched, but dogs can. So they run to that side of the boat and alert to let the skipper know where the dolphins are. Of course they get a doggy treat when they spot dolphins, so are excited to see them, especially when they come and play in the bow wave or wake.
This is Albie, from one of our Sth Island trips.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/IMG_0622.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1599470265)
Did you know Victor, the people who make most common snap traps for rats and mice and probably steel traps for fur-bearers, make a trap for moles? My paternal grandfather had the first one I ever saw. It is a pretty slick design. It is a square that slips over a mole run with spears to skewer the mole when he trips it. You find an active mole run where the mole has pushed the dirt up in your yard, stomp down a section with your foot, set the trap by pulling it up and locking it up in the notch. Push the 4 legs of the trap down into the ground over the stomped down portion of the raised mole run with the trigger over the flattened spot and wait. Usually during the night the mole comes along his run and when he reaches the flattened area he pushes ahead raising the dirt on the runback up but also triggering the trap. When triggered the spears in the trap impale the blind brigand. In the morning you remove the mole and reset the trap in case he has relatives in the area.
https://www.amazon.com/Victor-Plunger-Style-Quick-Clean/dp/B00004RAMS/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=Mole+Trap&qid=1694183843&sr=8-7
A far better trap, in my opinion, is the "No-Mole" trap. Smaller, lighter, easier to use. Cut out an area in the tunnel, set one trap and put it in the tunnel and the other trap in the other side. Then cover the hole with grass clippings. After trying them, I threw my other mole traps into a scrap steel bin. Moles are active day and night so a trap can be set early in the day and have a mole before the end of the day.
Did you know that old timers thought the beans from the castor plant would kill or repel moles? My maternal grandfather always had a few Castor plants in the chicken yard in N. Fla and was the first to tell me the beans would get rid of moles when placed in their runs. Many, many years later I was surprised to see the plant growing in Africa (where it apparently originated from).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricinus
I was surprised reading about it for this post to find it was used to make castor oil and also that it contained Ricin and how toxic it really was. Some of the articles I read indicated there was no scientific proof that the beans kill or repel moles. Maybe this is another Government research topic waiting funding. :D
When I did wildlife control work I had people look me straight in the eye and tell me that if you put a piece of juicy fruit gum in the mole tunnel that the moles eat it and it mucks up their digestive system. Moles live at a depth in the ground above the water table and below the surface. When the water table is high they seek higher ground and are up near the suface. When it gets dry they follow the earthworms down where it is moist. So it gets wet and the moles tunnel around by the surface and joe homeowner freaks out and tries some silly "remedy". The moles go back down as it dries, stops working at the surface so there's no new damage. Joe Homeowner proudly boasts of his success.
KEC,
Did you ever hear the tale about getting rid of seagulls by feeding them an Alka-Seltzer? Gulls are a problem around outdoor dining areas near the ocean because people feed them then they just start grabbing it off the table or out of your hand. Supposedly they cannot burp so they "steal" the Alka-Seltzer but when they eat it, it starts to bubble in their stomach and they explode. I never tried it but sounds like another good research project. ;)
No need for research, just another bogus method. I've done pigeon control jobs and had people ask why I went to the lengths I did to get rid of pigeons, "all you have to do is give them pieces of alka seltzer and they'll blow up". So I ask them how many pigeon jobs they solved that way. Utter silence. But they insisted that it works.
I was working a project in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia and we had a large Conference and Ceremonial Hall building on campus that was home to many pigeons. We had a big storm and almost lost the building because of all the pigeon crap stopped up the roof drains. The roof was in a huge V shape and we calculated how many tons of water was up there before we got it cleared. It did flood the building and we had to remove the theater seats and carpet to dry and reinstall the carpet.
Afterwards the local building engineer asked me if I could do something about the pigeons (which he called Big uns since the Arabic language has no P letter) and I discussed with my pest control guru and he said he could poison them. When I suggested this the Engineer was in total shock and vehemently stopped me. He said somewhere in the Koran it talked about how Muhammed fed the Pigeons so they were somewhat sacred to Muslims. I told him he'd have to seek help elsewhere then as that was my only option. I think he discussed with my counterpart in Maintenance and they may have come up with some kind of screen to help jeep them out .
Exclusion, screening off openings to keep things out of a building, is often a very important part of resolving a problem. To get the optimum outcome other steps need to be taken, all in the right cronological order. Some big operators will exclude a large number of pigeons from one location only to have them go to someone elses building and no regard is given to nests full of young inside the building.
Did you know that Reindeer are used as pack animals and sometimes even pull sleds in Mongolia, Siberia and Scandinavia? We visited a lady Shaman in Northern Mongolia and they used a herd of reindeer to haul their belongings in packs., on sleds and I think one was even ridden by the members of the nomadic tribe as they moved around the country. The Sami tribesmen in Norway. Finland and Sweden do the same thing with their reindeer IIRC.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 09, 2023, 02:38:50 PMDid you ever hear the tale about getting rid of seagulls by feeding them an Alka-Seltzer?
I have heard that if you put tabasco sauce on a slice of bread, it will cause their digestive tract to be destroyed. I can't say if it is true or not.
Did you know that shed deer antlers, preferably mule deer or elk, can be used to make gelatin such as used in canning, can be used to make leavening for baking (similar to baking soda) or as doggie chews?
Large matched sets can be sold for much higher prices for mounts.
5 Unique Uses for Shed Antlers - Petersen's Hunting (https://www.petersenshunting.com/editorial/5-unique-uses-for-shed-antlers/272452)
K-Guy, I can't say for sure but I doubt that the hot sauce will destroy a gulls' digestive tract.
I'm in favor of feeding the Jalapeno or Ghost peppers and watch/listen to the squawk every time they crap on somebody afterwards. :D
Birds don't actually the pain receptors that chillies activate, so they don't "feel the burn" at all.
If you want to feed wild birds, but squirrels keep raiding the food, one solution is actually mix in hot sauce. The squirrels, being mammals like us, are put off by the heat. The birds don't care.
Wild Birds Unlimited - Nature Shop (https://eugene.wbu.com/birds-and-hot-pepper)
Drat! And I was really looking forward to the expression on the faces of the flying rats who crapped on my windshield the last time I went to an outdoor restaurant on the coat!
It's thought that the capsaicin deters mammals like rats and squirrels from eating the fruit. If they do, they chew the seeds, and don't poop them out as viable seeds. Birds either swallow them whole or at least don't chew them. So they poop out viable seed.
So it's a survival plus for the fruit to be "hot".
Did you know that Llamas are used as pack animals? They can apparently carry about 1/3 of their body weight, they are very sure-footed which makes them handy on steep narrow mountain trails. They are also very alert and will often spot other wildlife before the people in the party do. Below is an ad for a company in Montana who uses them. (This not an endorsement for the company.) Apparently Alpacas are more often raised for their fiber to make clothing and such.
montana llama guides - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=montana+llama+guides&rlz=1C1JJTC_enUS1025US1025&oq=&aqs=chrome.1.69i59i450l8.2925293453j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
Did you know that palm oil is made from the nuts of the oil palm? The nuts grow in clumps on a stalk from about the size of a gallon jar to the size of a 5 gallon bucket or maybe slightly larger. The individual nuts are red and orange in color and are about 1" in diameter and maybe 3" long. Groves of the trees are planted and start bearing when the palm trees are about 3' tall and the trees continue to grow to heights of 20' or more and the nuts have to be harvested with long handled pruning shears similar to what we use to prune limbs on tall trees. The stalk with the nuts is lopped or sawed off. After the trees get about 20' tall they are too tall to harvest from so they are often cut down and the sap is tapped to make palm wine and replacement trees are planted.
I watched a family run operation in Cameroon on February 17, 2008 (A week or so before we got caught in the coups attempt there) and the family had already collected the stalks of palm nuts. They spread a tarp in front of them and knocked the ripe nuts off the stalk using the back side of their machetes on to the tarp. The nuts were then dumped in a 55 gallon drum and boiled to extract the reddish colored oil. Once boiled until soft a press was placed on top of the barrel. The press was screw jack kind of affair with a loop/eye in the top for a pole about 3-4 inches in diameter and 6' or so long. One to two men got on either side of the pole in the eye and started walking in circles which screwed the press down forcing the oil from the nuts. I don't remember if the oil floated to the top and was poured off or how they did the next step. The oil was then poured into 3-5 gallon plastic jugs and taken to the local market on the back of a 100 cc or there-abouts motorcycle. The squeezed out husks of the kernels was used for fuel to heat the next batch of oil nuts. In some cases the hard kernel, about the size of a date pit or almond, would be further processed to remove the black oil found in it. The red oil was used for every day cooking and the black oil was used more as a medicine.
At the local markets the large jugs would often be emptied into a big pan or pot and poured up into 1-1.5 liter bottles for retail sales. Usually 1.5 liter water bottles were used and often the purchaser brought their own bottle which was forced into the open container until it filled.
Palm oil is an ingredient found in chocolate bars and many other common foods we buy. It probably is not very healthy for you but I can vouch for the fact that little meat filled pastries or plantains cooked in it by local African street venders were very tasty.
Did you know that camels in Mongolia are mounted from the camel in a sitting position? When the camel starts to get up he stands up with first his back feet then his front feet and when getting off he gets back down by first kneeling in front then lowering his hind end till his belly is on the ground.
On 7 July, 2006 my wife found this out greatly to her surprise as that unexpectedly put her at about a 45* angle as the camel got up then got back down. Each time she grabbed the front hump for dear life and screamed which greatly amused the camel's owner/handler.
We were on vacation in Northern Mongolia and stopped to take pictures of about 100 camels in and around a river. The herders saw us and came to see what we were up to. We took pictures of them and printed and gave them copies from a small portable printer we took for that purpose so they offered to let my wife ride one. I stood back and watched as she screamed and they laughed. Everyone had a real good time. They next put on a rodeo with a 19 year old man mounting an unbroken 3 y/o horse, holding the mane and he stayed on way past the count of 8 before he kicked free.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/Khanbogdh___camp_113.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1694702677)
Camels are very big so her feet were easily 5'-6' about ground when mounted.
Did you know that in one of the most modern cities in the world you will still see ancient Dhow very much in use at the port to bring in supplies and equipment for the inhabitants and visitors?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/039.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1694784617)
The port will be lined up often with these old wooden vessels 3 deep. In fact to load or unload the 3rd Dhow furtherest from the dock sections of the rails from the first two are removed and walkways are place between the ships and a ladder against the first Dhow at the dock.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/068.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1694784894)
Ramps are often jury-rigged to help load or unload the cargo bays and open areas on the deck that are filled with everything from rice to refrigerators to roller blades. Stevedores typically from Bangladesh, Pakistan, Shri Lanka, India, etc. typically provide the manual labor to load and unload the ships. They will often be wearing a skirt like affair around their waist and have no shirt. All are dark complected from the ancestry and working in the sun all day.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/067.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1694785420)
Rickedty homemade wooden, bamboo and steel ladders lean against the ships for access.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/071.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1694785571)
Assorted sea birds hang around the docks and in the sea to catch fish or mooch tidbits from the workers and visitors.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/066.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1694785696)
Fully loaded the Dhows can carry a lot of cargo, usually for relatively short distances up and down the coast of Africa or the mideast. I don't know if any still use sails. All I saw had diesel engines.
I spent several weeks in Dubai in August 2011 on emergency/medical leave from Afghanistan after parting ways with my Gall Bladder there in Dubai. When I was able to hobble around I'd visit the docks where these pix came from. On one such visit on August 24, 2011 some of the crew members on a Dhow saw me looking and taking pictures and invited me aboard so I climbed a highly questionable steel ladder and went and met the captain and the crew. They offered me tea even though it was Ramadan and actually forbidden until sunset and talked a while. They made a weekly trip to Dubai then back to Iran (Iran? Maybe this Canadian is on the wrong boat!). It took them about 3 days each way with one day off each week to deliver supplies. This may have been a way to get around many of the embargos placed on Iran for their other misdeeds. The crew asked me if I had ever visited Iran or planned to and I laughed and said no but I would love to do so if the political situation ever stabilized. They said the same thing about coming to America.
Howard
I didn't know you were Canadian. I'm from Calgary originally, Where did you hale from?
I was born and raised in NW Fla just below the Ala line but when I am unexpectedly sitting at the Captain's table on an Iranian vessel with a strange Iranian crew in the Mideast, I can produce a Maple Leaf tattoo with the best of them! :D :D
Dang... Now they are going to think all Canadians are like that! ::) :D
Sorry for dragging you guys into that but that is what you get for having a reputation for being so nice!
I confess - I had a similar thought on my citizenship status on June 22, 2002 in the village of Mora in North Cameroon. My wife and I visited an open air market and we were probably the only white faces within 100 miles in a predominantly Muslim area of the country. I suddenly noticed I was seeing an awful lot of T-shirts with Osama bin Laden's picture on them and none of them had crosshairs overlaid on them like I was used to seeing. Suddenly old Toronto and Quebec looked pretty good and I suggested to my guide and driver we should do our shopping and sight-seeing elsewhere.
That area is now dead center in Boko Haram territory and I would not think of visiting without a platoon (preferably a company) of well armed Jarheads to back me up. :o
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 16, 2023, 02:03:36 AMSorry for dragging you guys into that
Sounding more Canadian all the time! ;)
Maybe I should tell them I am Swiss but if I get a Swiss cross tattooed on my arm or butt they may think it is a Christian logo and I will still be in trouble.
(Or maybe I need to vacation in better neighborhoods - Naaah. That would be boring.)
Did you know the largest fish species alive today is the whale shark? They are filter feeders and suck up large quantities of krill and such to eat. They are a very gentle species considered harmless to man but I have seen an article or two where a scuba diver got to close to them and accidentally got sucked into their maw. I suspect that left a stain on the diver's wetsuit - I know it would have mine!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_shark
June 27, 2011 my wife and I were vacationing in Thailand and I went on a scuba dive while she went to the dentist. We were diving along a wall from an upthrust rock structure when my Italian dive master Francesco Ferrari suddenly tapped me on the shoulder and pointed out to the open ocean so I followed him. Suddenly a 30' long whale shark circled close enough I could have reached out and touched her. As she swam away I looked back and 20' male followed also right next to me. It was an amazing sight. When we surfaced Francesco said "I have over 1,000 dives under my belt here and that is the first time I have ever seen one. They see them other places where we dive but never here." I guess I was just his good luck charm.
Did you know there are Spanish Dancers (Sometimes called Flamingo Dancers) in the Red Sea?
Google (https://www.google.com/search?gs_ssp=eJzj4tTP1TcwLok3yzZg9OIrLkjMyyzOUEhJzEtOLQIAcJwIwg&q=spanish+dancer&rlz=1C1JJTC_enUS1025US1025&oq=spanish+dancer&aqs=chrome.1.0i271j46i433i512j46i175i199i512j0i512l2j185i395i512i622i623j0i512l4.8603j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:beb45316,vid:xeOuumcKO7I,st:0)
These beautiful creatures are a type sea slug. I never saw one during a day time dive but they were pretty common to see on night dives. They generally just crawl along the ocean floor but if you pick one up and release it then it spreads out to about the size of a dinner starts to swim by twisting its body up and down. It is hard to see when it is crawling but when swimming you can see a fine white edge that looks like the white lace on a flamingo dancers spinning skirts.
They were one of my favorite forms of sea life I saw while diving in the Red Sea near Jeddah Saudi Arabia,
Did you know Jewelweed or Touch Me Not is a fun weed to use to play with the kids? They are common and should be ripe around here now and when the seeds are ripe if you touch the pod the pod explodes and scatter the seeds.
Jewelweed (https://www.fs.usda.gov/wildflowers/plant-of-the-week/impatiens_capensis.shtml)
Did you know, you can crush the foilage of jewelweed and rub it on your skin to releive poison ivy ? And, I think deer eat it.
There's lots of it growing on the far edge of the back yard.
I usually test it out on the grandkids, and tell them that they are supposed to catch the seeds!
We visited the Central African Republic in 2003 or so and we were sitting it a huge blind overlooking a saline meadow where the elephants and buffalo and various antelopes came to drink and periodically I kept hearing loud snapping noises. I asked our local guide and he showed me a nearby tree that looked very much like a mimosa and was certainly in the bean family. It had a long bean for a seed pod that was about 12" long and 3" wide and about 5/8" thick. The seeds were getting ripe and they were of the exploding type like a Jewelweed. I don't know what triggered them to open but when they did so you could hear them several hundred yards so I assume they were throwing seeds for a long way. I had seen some of the seed pods/shells on the way in but thought they were old soles from worn out shoes or something. Below is a video I found that is either from these same seeds or some that are similar. The ones I saw actually looked bigger than the ones in the video and we were in the jungle not woodlands. The pods I saw did not curl.
Beware! Exploding Seed Pods of the Miombo Woodlands - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxmJpAYVIpA)
Here are a portion of my journal notes from that trip. We were on a trek that day with a couple of World Wildlife Fund researchers who were doing research on lowland gorillas in the area. This was for June 26, 2003:
We walk along in near complete silence for another 30-40 minutes until suddenly Becky coughs. This startles a huge cow elephant about 30 yards away that we had not seen. She has a newborn or very young calf and I guess she takes the cough as a threat and she charges. M'Bongo yells and we all run along different side paths to escape her wrath. Baduma evidently has a blowout on his shower shoe and trips. The elephant grabs him in her trunk and begins to thrash him violently to and fro. Becky rushes back in and begins taking pictures of the whole event which is an opportunity of a lifetime for any professional photographer worth her salt. Suddenly she realizes how serious this is and screams "Stop her. She's going to ruin all my camera stuff." This is true. Baduma has been packing Becky's customized camera back pack with all her spare lenses and extra film and such. I hand M'Bongo my camera and rush back to the elephant calf and grab its ear and twist violently until it screams in pain. The mother elephant responds by turning Baduma loose and rushing back to her calf. I run away as soon as she starts back towards me. She stops to investigate her calf inspecting every inch of him with her trunk and I circle back up the trail in the direction we were heading. I see Baduma get up and hobble away.
We all muster in a small clearing a couple of hundred yards ahead. Baduma has a couple of broken ribs and a broken wrist as well as nearly having had his right ear scraped off on tree trunk but he will live. Becky does a quick inventory and we decide everything will be okay as none of her camera stuff is broken except one lens cover and a couple of rolls of unexposed film so we can continue our outing.
Actually, none of the previous two paragraphs occurred but if you knew Becky's zeal for photography and concern over her camera gear you would know it is all entirely believable.
Did you know the number of stupid people getting gored, trampled, clawed and chewed on seems to grow every year? I don't know if there are more stupid people in this world or if reporting is getting better. It amazes me, who admittedly has done some stupid things in my life, how many idiots go out to Yellowstone or Yosemite or other national parks and decide it would be so cool to get a selfie with/petting an angry bull elk in rut or a bison bull or a mama grizzly with cubs or cow moose with a calf then get all upset when, in spite of all the warning signs and people telling them to stay back, the animal attacks them. I guess the problem is with modern medicine and such most survive and pass along their stupid genes.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/yellowstone-tourist-suffers-consequences-getting-093000137.html
The bad part is the animal is sometimes blamed and is killed or transplanted to another area outside his comfortable home range for protecting himself or doing what was natural.
IIRC Do you know more people are injured or killed by moose than by bears? Mother moose are very protective of their calves and bull moose in the rut are particularly ill-tempered. Keep this in mind when working or hiking in areas commonly frequented by moose and make sure you take along a slower friend.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/moose-headbutts-stomps-woman-walking-131200727.html
I think they are most dangerous when they are in rut AND also drunk. This is a big problem every year in the Scandinavian countries.
Drunken Moose | Wild Case Files - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GmWnn20-JY)
At the beginning of our recent 2 week vacation, we stayed up in the the Bighorn Mountains in north central Wyoming for a couple of nights. My aunt and uncle have a place up there where we park our camper. There is a resident cow moose who has a calf every year, well the kids were outside in the morning and the moose were trying to find a route through where our camper was parked, which apparently was in their way. My son was standing there and looked up to have the calf within petting distance (which he wisely refrained from doing). My cousin just told him to hold still and the moose would keep moving, which they did. Then Momma bedded down about 20' behind our camper and chewed her cud😊
If seeing a moose is on your bucket list, Burgess Junction, Wyoming has a very high concentration of the animals in an environment where they end up fairly visible because of the park "western meadow" landscape. You will frequently see moose leaving the creek bottom where they feed, heading uphill into the timber to bed for the day, and then returning in the evening. They have to cross open country to do so, and that's when you have a good chance of spotting them.
Another aspect of the Bighorns, is that there aren't a lot of large predators. A few black bears and mountain lions, but no wolves or grizzlies (yet). Both wolves and grizzlies have been seen making their way across the Bighorn Basin from the Absaroka Mountains to the west. There was a grizzly spotted in the Pryor Mountains recently, which are really an extension of the Bighorns that lie across the Bighorn River Canyon.
Below is my journal entry regarding moose at Glacier park in September 2015. My daughter and SIL went there to get married and the below event was 2 days before their wedding:
I remember we went to a trailhead, behind the Glacier Lodge that lead to a shallow lake off in the woods a mile or so from the parking lot. The lake was supposed to be a very popular place to look for moose which liked to come out at sunset so we went there one evening and stayed till sunset without seeing any moose. We decided we had better head back as it was not safe to be out in the park after dark in bear country like we were. A couple of local ladies who had come out for an afternoon or day trip joined us. I remember before they joined us they were sort of talking about greenhorn tourists as if they knew so much more than we did.
Suddenly off the trail about 30-35 yards to our left we heard a loud moan and looked and Chris spotted a big cow moose lying down. Evidently she was in heat and looking for a mate. Becky began taking pictures when suddenly a flash went off beside her from one of the local lady's camera. Her partner had her cell phone held high recording the calls. Becky hissed at the lady to shut her flash off or she would get us all killed. Becky had adjusted the light setting on her camera to compensate for the low light. The local lady told Becky "I don't know how to turn off the flash." Becky told her "I will give you a copy of my pictures."
Suddenly there was a loud crashing in the brush and a big bull moose came out and began nuzzling the cow moose to get up. She finally did and they began to walk parallel to our trail and we followed them for another 50-60 yards or so then decided it really was getting too dark to be out there so we turned around and headed back to the parking lot. The local lady with the cell phone turned it on and began re-playing the recorded call of the cow moose in estrus. I quickly told her "Shut that off or you are going to get us all killed. Bears do come to that sound you know." The lady quickly complied. We made it safely to the parking lot and the ladies recorded our e-mail addresses and phone numbers and we said our good-byes.
A couple of months later I was at home in WV and the phone rang and the lady on the other end introduced herself and told me she was the lady we met on the trail in Glacier the evening we saw the moose. She wanted to talk to Becky about getting a copy of the pictures so I yelled downstairs for Becky to pick up the phone. Of course she yelled back asking who it was and I replied "It's the moose lady from Glacier Park" and I could hear the lady laughing at that on the other end of the phone. I handed off the phone and she and Becky talked and Becky got her address and sent her several of the pictures as promised.
Did you know that arachnids are nots just spiders? They include Daddy long legs, tarantulas, scorpions. ticks and a few other species.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachnid
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 20, 2023, 09:22:52 AMI don't know if there are more stupid people in this world or if reporting is getting better.
In regards to reply 3620 I hate to report that as the number of people in the world increases the number of stupid people increase disproportionately. Many of them have good educations.
I recall my Dad referring to some college graduates as "Educated Fools", meaning they have very little or no common sense!
Chuck,
I have seen the terms used as "Educated beyond his abilities" or "Educated beyond his raisin' "
My dad had a chain link fence business on the side when we were growing up and we put up a short line fence for a well respected dentist in a nearby town. He called us back and wanted us to lower the fence in one spot. There was a small runoff and in one spot near the center of 2 posts where there was about a 6" clearance. He wanted us to lower the fence so his neighbors cat could not walk under it and showed us as it walked between the 2 yards. We could have just cut off the 2 adjacent posts and lowered the fence leaving a distinct sag but closing the gap and he was okay with that but we pointed out "You know cats can climb and it is only 50' in either direction and the cat could walk around as it is only a single straight section." While we were talking the cat jumped up and climbed the fence further down and jumped over as the fence did not even have the points facing up. The dentist scratched his head and said "I never thought about that. Go ahead and leave it as it is."
My BIL is a mechanical engineer. Brilliant guy. On paper 😂 My sister still has me babysit him when they visit, the common sense is not strong with that one😬😊
A lot of the time I think it is just different opportunities as we go through life, think city mouse/country mouse.
Now think of all the things we learned the hard way (so far) and wonder how you are still alive.
A lot of those bandages, stitches, casts and near miss holy "shoot" moments could have been the "that boy doesn't/didn't have much common sense" for someone else to say.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 20, 2023, 09:22:52 AM
Did you know the number of stupid people getting gored, trampled, clawed and chewed on seems to grow every year? I don't know if there are more stupid people in this world or if reporting is getting better. It amazes me, who admittedly has done some stupid things in my life, how many idiots go out to Yellowstone or Yosemite or other national parks and decide it would be so cool to get a selfie with/petting an angry bull elk in rut or a bison bull or a mama grizzly with cubs or cow moose with a calf then get all upset when, in spite of all the warning signs and people telling them to stay back, the animal attacks them. I guess the problem is with modern medicine and such most survive and pass along their stupid genes.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/yellowstone-tourist-suffers-consequences-getting-093000137.html
The bad part is the animal is sometimes blamed and is killed or transplanted to another area outside his comfortable home range for protecting himself or doing what was natural.
There literally is more stupid people yes considering 1980 4.5b people to today 8b lol
Nah, at least with my BIL his thinking is just on a different plane. He's a great guy, we all love him. We also don't let him take our kids on ATVs, boats, and such. He just doesn't think things through🤷 Yes he is a city boy, but that's not the issue. I also have a friend who moved to the woods up here from California. He grew up in Compton, right in the hood. He had a steep learning curve with a lot of stuff up here, but he's very level headed and gets on just fine.
Quote from: barbender on September 23, 2023, 03:38:45 PM
Nah, at least with my BIL his thinking is just on a different plane. He's a great guy, we all love him. We also don't let him take our kids on ATVs, boats, and such. He just doesn't think things through🤷 Yes he is a city boy, but that's not the issue. I also have a friend who moved to the woods up here from California. He grew up in Compton, right in the hood. He had a steep learning curve with a lot of stuff up here, but he's very level headed and gets on just fine.
He grew up with Dre and ice cube lol
Did you ever examine a squirrels leaf nest? They often use twigs and tougher outer leaves and such for the outer edges but the inside will be soft, partially green, leathery leaves or even Spanish moss where available for the inner nest materials. They are typically about 12" in diameter but I have seen them up to nearly 3' in diameter. I know I have chased as many as 5 individuals out of a big nest.
Did you know that a centipede does not have 100 legs? In fact they all have an odd number of legs ranging from 15 to 191 pairs of legs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centipede
Did you know that Millipedes do not actually have 1,000 legs as the name implies? They do have 2 pairs of legs per body segment. They often roll up into a ball to protect their tender underbelly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millipede
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 24, 2023, 07:34:07 PMIn fact they all have an odd number of legs
Trying to understand I look at images of centipedes and concluded that the legs are matched pairs, so even number of legs (pairs), with odd number of segments.
say_what -JJ
Sorry for the misunderstanding. They always have an odd number of segments but yes, unless one has a tiny peg leg from a naval boarding incident, they will have an even number of legs.
Did you know yellowjackets do not only nest in the ground but also sometimes make football shaped nests above ground like hornets do?
https://a-z-animals.com/blog/where-do-yellow-jackets-nest/
Yellowjackets tend to tolerate cooler weather than other stinging wasps and they tend to become hungrier and more aggressive in the Fall of the year. They are a common problem for early season bow hunters and late season catfish fishermen. They are very much a meat eater and seem to smell blood in the air very quickly and become a real nuisance and are very dangerous.
Did you know that sharp arrows are much more effective than dull blades? Now that sounds pretty obvious but since bow hunting kills the animal more through blood loss than through shock. My son told me about a test he saw where the tester set up a series of rubber tubes very close together and filled the tubes with brightly colored liquid and shot a pair of arrows through the tubes. The first arrow had very sharp edges while the second was deliberately dulled.
Both arrows passed through the tubes easily but the first/sharp arrow cleanly cut each tube it contacted while the second/dull arrow basically pushed the rubber tubes aside and passed on through. The same would be true with a deer or other game animal and while a very sharp arrow will cut the arteries and veins it contacts causing massive and immediate blood loss and a quick death, a dull arrow could quite possibly pass completely through a game animal while inflicting minimal damage to the blood vessels it passes and pushes past.
I butchered chickens in the fall one time, and got SWARMED by hornets! I was going nuts trying to keep them away from me, but then I finally realized they really weren't being their normal jerk aggressive selves...they were just after the blood and none were aggressive towards me. I finally started to ignore them🤷
Normally I'm after those things right away. If I get stung, I'm not allergic but get a "local" reaction. However, every time I get stung I get a little bit sicker than I did the time before. Aches, chills, and flu like symptoms in addition to the throbbing swollen area where I actually got stung.
Barbender, you gotta get you some MSG meat tenderizer and keep it handy. When you get stung, wet the area and pour that stuff on and rub it it. It breaks down the enzymes in the venom very quickly and the problem goes away... quickly. It should also keep your immune system from reacting to the stings, if you are quick enough. I've been using it for years and it works like a charm.
BB,
You made a good point when you talk about hornets (and I think you mean yellowjackets) being plentiful but not particularly aggressive. I find that is common here with our yellowjackets this time of year when I kill and skin/butcher an early season deer or tap into those late season catfish I encounter large numbers of yellowjackets in a frenzied state to feed but not attack. Most of the stings I get this time of year come by accident when I reach for a better hold on my game/fish and accidentally grab or pinch one of them.
I've always heard about the meat tenderizer and believe in but have not tried it. I do know the sting is an acid so if you can get a strong base on it quick enough you can neutralize the sting. I've used a spot of bleach or alcohol. I once solved a hornet sting to the forehead with a cotton ball soaked in bleach but ended up with a worse bleach burn so be careful with it. Old timers put chewing tobacco or chewed up a cigar or cigarette and put that on the sting. I have grabbed a couple of juicy green leaves and crushed them and put the sap on the sting and that seemed to give me some relief.
Howard, I probably do mean yellow jackets, the terms are interchangeable up here.
OG, I will certainly keep the MSG in mind👍
Howard, those other 'treatments' you mention are just things to reduce the after effect pain, like putting wet mud on, it may fell slightly better than leaving it alone, but it doesn't eliminate the problem. Some treatments I have tried over the decades are old wives tales and do nothing but keep you occupied or distracted while you are moaning.
The MSG actually breaks down the venom proteins or enzymes, or whatever they are and literally make the pain disappear. The only way you can believe it is to actually have it happen to you. The key is that it has to be applied immediately, the longer you wait the further the venom travels. If you can get it on properly within a minute or two you have a good change that there will be nearly zero effect of the sting at all. The downside is that you have to have it handy when you get stung. I used to have a bunch of small plastic bottles with screw tops I would fill with Adolf's every year or so and stick them all over, like first aid kits, glove boxes in vehicles, shop, and places like that. I have lost or given away all of them and now just keep one container in a kit in the truck med bag. I treat about a dozen or so stings every year on other people at the Festivals I do medical coverage for and get to see it work all the time. But again, quick application is the key. The further it spreads, the less effective the MSG is. Even used it on myself a couple of weeks ago (pithed off yellow jacket).
Barbender, around here we (I at least) do not lump them all together. Our 3 primaries are yellow jackets, white faced hornets, and paper wasps. All have different attack methods and dispositions. The Hornets are the very worst and 2 or 3 stings can put a real hurtin' on a full grown man, and a couple more can bring a man to his knees.
About 35 years ago I was doing yard work and my cousin's from Texas were here helping. I stuck my hand into the back of a steel box to pull it out of the swamp and there was a paper wasp nest in there I could not see. They saw my hand and covered it. I had 15 or more stings before I realized something was not quite right. I looked at my hand and realized my work day was done, and for something like this I might need an emergency room. My cousin ran to his camper and came back with the Adolf's and had me spit on my hand and spread it around. Then he sprinkled it liberally, the whole time I am thinking this is the stupidest thing I ever heard of. Well just as the major throbbing in my hand began to take hold and I drew in a deep breath, the whole thing just faded away. I mean it went away to nothing except a few red stinger dots on my hand. 15 minutes later I was back to work and never even thought about it the rest of the day. Ever since then I am a convert, but I will admit you really have to experience it to believe how well it works. It's pretty amazing.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on September 23, 2023, 08:52:18 AMI have seen the terms used as "Educated beyond his abilities" or "Educated beyond his raisin' "
Years ago I was working driving rock truck doing site prep for a gold processing plant in the interior of British Columbia when one of the other drivers had PO'd the hoe operator so bad that as I pulled up and bad driver left, he swung the hoe around so he could open the door and talk to me. He said" That boy must of gone to college because you have to go to school for a long time to be that stupid!!" :D
I have given a few the label, "arrogant for no apparent reason!" some are family members. :)
Did you know the term for an eagle or falcon nest high in a tree or on a cliff is an Eyrie?
How do you skin your caribou, bison, musk ox, elk or moose? I was watching the Mountain Men TV series last night and one of the actors involved and his wife had shot a couple of cow elk. I know on the east coast when we kill a deer or such we typically hang it from a tree limb or rack and rip open the belly when skinning it. I knew bigger game was typically skinned and quartered on the ground leaving the animal on its own hide to keep it off the dirt but I thought they always ripped open the belly and skinned the hide back, pulled the quarters and backstrap on top then flipped the animal over on the hide and did the same with the other side.
This guy just ripped the elk up the middle of the back and pulled the hide down and quartered the cow elk. Then he flipped it over and did the other side. One advantage is he did not seem to have the legs in the way while working it up.
It did not appear he was trying to save the hide so that may have been a factor.
Those you you who hunt and skin these larger game animals - do you rip open the belly or down the back?
Everyone I have hunted with or talked to always did the skinning belly up. The ones that buckskin would leave the legs off the body hide and remove that hide for laces and tassels.
I never gut an animal, just cut the hide down the back and do as you described. If I am at camp I hang it or in the field, I handle it on the ground. You can easily get the tenderloins so nothing is wasted. Lay the quarters in bags on some limbs, etc. to keep them off of the ground. Drag the carcass away from the quarters and open the belly so that bears probably will not bother your meat.
Depends on the size of the elk, the location, and a number of other things. Generally the technique mentioned works. But not always. ;)
@barbender (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1286) Just thinking a bit more on your increasing reactions to wasp stings. You might want to have a conversation with your doctor and see if he would recommend keeping Benadryl or even a EpiPen within reach.
Quote from: beenthere on September 29, 2023, 05:20:26 PM
Depends on the size of the elk, the location, and a number of other things. Generally the technique mentioned works. But not always. ;)
When would it not work?
This show I was watching was the first I'd ever seen it done. I watched an Innuit lady hunter on one show cleaning a moose and she ripped the belly and had to use a winch or ropes or such to move the legs out of the way for access. Looks like cutting down the back would eliminate that.
JD Guy has a good point. Anaphylaxis is a 'learned response' by your immune system. Each time it encounters the 'assault' it responds with a bit more of that undesirable stuff with the intent of combating the insult to your system. This can include restricting blood vessels and constricting the throat which can make living difficult. Each time there is a reaction the responses increase and at some point can get untenable. Best to check in with a Doc and talk this over before it gets any worse. The fever and chills are a new set of symptoms in my experience and might be something you want to understand better. Allergists are really good at that stuff.
My Mother had never had a bad reaction to bee or wasp stings for maybe 70 years. Then she was stung by a wasp and went into shock in about a minute. If my nephew hadn't been there, called paramedics, AND told then it was a sting, she would have died. Was in ICU for a couple of days and Drs were worried about brain damage as her heartbeat and BP were almost nothing. She carries an EpiPen now.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/larry-copas-white-snakeroot-20230930.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1696125924)
White snakeroot, a pretty native flower is in full bloom here. Usually found in rich woods soil. It can be toxic if eaten but who would ever eat it? Cows do if ran in the woods. Causes something called milk sickness in the time and Abraham Lincoln's mother died from it. Scientists figured it out. What we learn from the past can have application in today's world......
Did you know when people are allergic to shellfish it is often the iodine in the shellfish that causes the reaction?
Our daughter had a bad reaction when she was 16 and ate some lobster off the buffet and had to be ventilated. Our doctor warned her about the iodine being the likely cause and years later she was going to have a kidney function test using radiated iodine and warned them and they did a test and immediately she had a serious reaction so they used an alternate compound or procedure.
Did you know that most flu vaccines are made using eggs? The egg is injected and produces antibodies that are extracted and processed and used in the vaccine. I think yellow fever is another grown in eggs. People with allergies to eggs either cannot take such vaccines or have to be monitored when they get vaccinated for the severity of the reaction.
My wife is mildly allergic to eggs (She sneezes a number of times after eating foods with eggs) and generally does not take the flu shots. She took the yellow fever shot which is required for access to most of Africa and some other countries but had wait in the nurses office till the reaction passed.
How Influenza (Flu) Vaccines Are Made | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/how-fluvaccine-made.htm)
the egg actually is used to grow and replicate the virus that is then made inactive and injected (antigen) and your body makes antibodies in advance of you contacting the virus during the season, so you are already immune.
I understand snake anti-venom is typically made by injecting venom into horses and often the reaction to the horse blood is worse on the bite victim than the venom of the snake bite. Of course in some cases the bite could have even been a dry bite with little or no venom injected.
We visited a Pygmy camp near the town of Kribi in southern Cameroon in the early 2000's and the chief/medicine man/woman had a viper head on a stick slowly roasting over a slow fire. They said when it was dry they would grind it into powder to use in case of snake bites. I figured then the reason that might work was because it might have been a dry bite. If it did not work the witch doctor could always say it was evil spirits that killed the guy.
I remember on that trip I met the worlds best negotiator - my boat captain. He had negotiated with our guide to take us upriver to the pygmy camp and back and I'd pay him when we got back. After an hour or so up this remote jungle river with the captain running the 15 hp outboard and three deckhands bailing the water that was leaking in his old wooden pirogue, we tied up at the mouth of a creek at the village for a couple of hours then when we returned to leave the captain said he had decided he needed his money "Now". I laughed because he knew we were not going to stiff him or try to renegotiate for a lower fee! Since I am here to write this tale it is obvious I paid him on the spot.
antivenom is premade antibodies to inactivate the toxin. you would not have time to make the antibodies yourself as you would sadly die first. With tetanus, we give a shot to prepare your body but if you have neglected to get the shot, and have a bad wound, you get tet vaccine or booster, and antibody injections. There is no commonly given vaccine for rabies but for the folks at risk. kind of like the folks like Howard that go to remote spots in less developed areas.
Snake antivenom - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_antivenom)
Doc,
I tried to get the rabies vaccine when I was in the USMC and had a good little squirrel and coon dog and was all the time catching critters. They would not give it to me and only gave it to the vets I think. They said if I got bit or scratched I'd still have to take the series of shots. Our company used to give the vaccine to workers on the pipeline in Cameroon in case they got but by a monkey or rat or such while they were working in remote areas because it might take a long time to medevac them.
My son got the shots when he got bit by a skunk he had caught. After insurance our co-pay was $800 and my wife was not some happy about it. When he told her "Mom, Dad will understand" then when I called (as I was working away from home) and told her "Don't be too hard on him as I did show him how to catch them" then she really blew up and was mad at both of us. About a year later he came home with 3 baby coons he had caught while fishing at our local COE lake. They got loose in the house, I grabbed one, his buddy grabbed one and he grabbed the third. Our German Exchange student ran in her room and locked the door and my wife and daughter were standing on the couch. My wife said "Sean, we are all going to get rabies from them!" He imprudently replied "No me, I've had my shots." Correct but not the best answer to give!
30 or more years ago my daughter and I got the rabies vaccine. It was set up by a member of our trappers group, You had to buy a vile it and all used at once as it would not keep.
The last time I got a Yellow Fever shot I had to do the same thing and round up enough other people to use up the whole vile vial.
I had never thought about trappers needing the vaccine but it certainly makes sense when you think about it. Thanks for sharing.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/leprosy-spreading-domestically-us-experts-100108589.html
Did you know that armadillos often carry the bacteria that causes leprosy? It is questionable whether they can spread it to humans since there is little direct contact between humans and them (although I can personally certify that a properly prepared armadillo tastes like good roast pork).
I was surprised from the above article how far north they have spread which includes Tennessee and I believe they said Indiana or Illinois (one of them furin cold weather states). I was surprised several years ago to find in them in SC north of Charleston as when we were stationed in Beaufort in the late 70's/early 80's there were none to be seen in the state. We spotted one in a park in a pine plantation and I herded it back to my wife, daughter and Patrick to photograph and it ran between them, stopped at the back wheel of my wife's truck then jumped up and ran right smack into the wheel. (Did you know armadillos are not very smart and have poor eyesight?)
Leprosy has largely been irradicated around the world but there was a leper colony/compound run by a little French nun outside of Douala, Cameroon and my wife and I visited it in 2001 or 2002. The patients in some cases had lost fingers or toes and one was blind but they were in amazingly good spirits and wanted their pictures made including the blind man. His friends explained to him how he looked on the viewer of Becky's camera and they laughed and joked and it made my day to watch them.
Anyway, if you do decide to have roast armadillo for Sunday dinner when the in-laws come over you might be well advised to wear rubber gloves while cleaning it.
My veterinarian friend agrees Howard. 'Pencil Pork'. He pulled into camp one time with a road killed pig. Claimed he hit is so he knew it was fresh.....
Do you know the traditional spear gun uses rubber tubing for propulsion? In face many guns have several sets of bands. The rubber tube is attached to a wire on each side. The spear is typically a 1/4"-5/16" stainless or chrome plated rod with notches cut in the end of the rod and the wire is pulled back and locked in the notch similar to a crossbow. The front end of the rod is threaded and a barbed point. You put the spear in the groove on top if the gun, pull the band(s) back and place the wire in the notch. When you shoot a fish it typically shoots all the way through the fish and the barbs (often 3-4 inches wide) open up to keep the fish on the spear. The spear may or may not have a coiled line on it attached to the spear gun to keep the fish from swimming away with your spear. (Caution - if you have such a line attached to the gun and you have a lanyard on your wrist to the gun and you shoot a 500 lb fish, you could be in for a wild ride!) You typically pull the fish in and secure it on a ring, line or in a bag, unscrew the barbed point and pull the spear back through, reattach the point and start over.
Howard
If you wanted a tetanus shot from the military, all you had to do was get a couple small surface cuts on you somewhere and say it was from a something rusty. Then as a precaution they will give you one, at least that is how I got one in Canada but I really did cut my hand on a rusty barrel.
K-Guy,
Tetanus shots were no problem to get. What I wanted was the rabies vaccines and they would only give them to the base Vet.
By the time I stopped traveling my International shot record had long run out of spaces to add more shots and vaccinations. I think I got vaccinated against everything except Mange - and Rabies.
Did you know that in addition to the rubber band powered spearguns you can also buy compressed air guns? I guess it has a little compressed air cylinder inside similar to an old fashioned BB gun. I used one that was a pistol and shot about a 12" long spear and had about 12' of coiled monofilament line attached to it. I cocked it with a plastic piece in my hand that I put over the point and pressed the spear in the barrel, like a muzzleloader, till it cocked and locked. You could also push straight down on the spear against a hard piece of coral till it locked. I wore it on my leg in a rubber holster and it was very convenient to carry around. I mostly used it at night when I had blinded the fish like gigging frogs. I'd put the spear tip up to within about 6" of the fish's eye and shoot then put the fish on a ring like a big safety pin on my weight belt (Yeah - I know, it would have been safer to keep them on a line floating overhead to prevent sharks or barracudas from trying to get them but I could ditch that belt with the flick of a quick release button and I didn't need it at the speed I was going to be heading away from Jaws. No doubt I'd have blown my lungs out in the process with the air expanding in them as I surfaced too quickly. ::)). After I had strung up the fish I'd unscrew the tip, pull the shaft out and screw it back on and look for my next fish.
The compressed air gun did not have the range and accuracy of the long band guns which I used during daytime trips when the fish were wary. I still remember groupers (our preferred fish to hunt) peeping over a chink of coral at me like squirrels looking around a limb on a tree at me.
I did kill a 50 lb wrasse in a cave one night in the Red Sea near Jeddah but that was not a smart thing to do and not something I recommend to others. I shot him from a range of 2' in the R eye and he went crazy and broke the pot metal spear on the side of the cave. I was blocking the only entrance out. It took a while to get him out. I'd go in after him and when I'd get tangled up in my gear or when he charged and knocked my mask off and my regulator out of my mouth my dive buddy would pull me out by my heels and I'd get resituated and go back in. I finally stabbed the fish in the head to the hilt with my dive knife and got a stringer on him and finally pulled him out. Fred had the stringer tied to his wrist and when we pulled him out of the cave he made one last run for freedom and was towing Fred towards the coast of Sudan at a pretty brisk pace till Fred got the brakes on and we towed the exhausted, dying fish back to shore. We fed our whole compound off that fish.
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I had my nurses trained. if I ordered a tet. booster but the person changed their minds my nurse would not say a word and lift my L sleeve and I got the booster.
Did you know the Fall Foliage season on the east coast is much prettier than on the west coast? In the east we have vibrant red, yellows, oranges, browns and some hardheaded green all mingled together. We went to Colorado for a wedding in August a few years ago and everyone was talking about how pretty the Fall Foliage was becoming and that we had come at just the right time. I'm sorry but all I saw was a bunch of yellow aspens and cottonwoods in the valleys and if somebody saw a splash of orange they had to take a picture for the local newspaper.
We are peaking out on our colors right now and it is a really pretty sight to see a yellow maple or poplar with a bright garnish of red from a Virginia creeper or poison ivy vine wrapped around the tree.
Going back to post 3641 (wasp stings, etc) I just had and incident that was pertinent, if not belated.
So it's pouring out and I am working in the shop on a commission job. Got a good start and I was at a beak (thinking before I cut the wrong thing) and I took my safety glasses off to relax and think. I didn't even have time to throw the glasses on the bench when out of nowhere this paper (black) wasp comes straight at me and nails me between the bridge of my nose and my left eye. I whacked him right quick and didn't think he had time to sting me, but in a few seconds I knew full well he had scored. My truck was in the other driveway so I threw on a holy raincoat and got my MSG. Not wanting to shake the stuff into my eye I wetted a folded paper towel and put the Adolfs on that and then held it on. Pain gone for n 20 seconds. So at least I know my 'stuff' isn't too old. No I gotta figure out where that dang wasp came from, maybe lighting the stove had something to do with it? All I know is that guy was mad and headed right for me. I got a bad feeling this isn't over yet.
Did you know there are coyotes in Ohio? Well at least one because I passed him at mile marker 10 on I-77 at 6:40 am on my way to the Paul Bunyan show today.
Tom,
I glad your MSG worked on your wasp sting and hope he was the only one in the shop.
Maybe it was the blessed raincoat that stopped the pain. a miracle. :) :) :) :o :o :o ;)
Armadillos have been here in MO for about 10 years at least. I imagine they were in southern MO long before that. They arent a huge problem for us, but they do like to dig little holes in the yard where they are looking for a meal.
Old Greenhorn, only one? ???
Seem like every time I disturb a nest, I get nailed by one and there are 3-4-5 more around me wanting to do the same thing as the first one!!! 3-4-5 might be on the low side too. :o
Then there are a bunch around the nest!!!!
Did you know when bees sting they emit a pheramone at the site of the sting and other bees will become agitated by the smell and sting in the same site. I am not sure if wasps and hornets and other stinging insects do the same thing or not. Also wasps can sting multiple times while honeybees can only sting once because their entire abdomen rips off and the barbed stinger remains pulses pumping more venom into the sting.
Did you know that ground bees can prove that an old phart can run. ;D
Did you know that most (about 70%) of the bees are ground nesting insects rather than in above ground hives? I did not know this till I looked it up after Chuck's last comment got me to thinking. Most are docile according to the article below but I think most of us have found those few exceptions.
Bees that nest in the ground - Currents | UW-La Crosse (https://www.uwlax.edu/currents/bees-that-nest-in-the-ground/)
Did you know circle hooks are designed to catch fish in the jaw/side of the mouth rather than having the fish swallow the hook and get hooked in the gut? I have started using small circle hooks to catch small bait fish for use on my catfish lines. I am not sure I catch as many bait fish but I was using #10 long shanked cricket hooks while the smallest circle hook I have found locally is a #4 but all of bait survive being caught. You also don't "Set the Hook" with circle hooks but just pull steady tension on the line.
Did you know stingrays will sometimes jump completely out of the water? Apparently they will do this to rid themselves of parasites including remoras. It is very impressive to see a 10' wide manta ray jump completely out of the water.
Even more impressive when a ~50 ft / 40 ton whale does it. Possibly for the same reason, or maybe they just like making a BIG splash :D
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Neither are much fun to watch if you are in a small boat where they land! ::) ::)
Did you know a graduated baby bottle is handy for measuring mixing oil for your chainsaw, outboard motor, weedeater, etc?
I have a bottle with the ounces marked on the side. For my 25 hp Johnson outboard I have 2 separate 6 gallon fuel tanks. That is convenient as that outboard uses a 50:1 mixture or 50 parts gasoline to one part of oil. I run a tank till it runs dry then switch the hose to the other tank. I add one pint of oil to the empty tank then fill with exactly 6 gallons of gasoline. That is actually a 48:1 mixture and a little heavier than Johnson recommends but I'd lots rather run a little heavy than a little light on the oil.
On my graduated bottle I use to measure oil I have marked it as 16 oz(1 pint) makes 6 gallons. 8 oz (1 cup) makes 3 gallons, 4 oz makes 1.5 gallons and about 2.5 oz makes a gallon of mixed gas for my 50:1 uses.
I prefer to leave the can empty till I add the oil then add the gasoline instead of adding gas then add the oil because if I forget and use the gas without oil I can burn up an engine. If I forget and double up on the oil later it will just be hard to start and foul the plugs but not damage the engine.
Be sure and rinse the bottle out well before you give back to the mother! :snowball: :D :D :D
I've seen big rays jump and apparently land on bait schools to stun them to make them easier prey.
A good friend of mine recently retired from teaching and is working at a resort as a fishing guide. They are fishing phosphate pits a little south of here. Many of his clients are not exceptionally adept at bass fishing. He has been having a lot of success with using drop shot weights with a circle 3/0 circle hook and a curly tailed grub. The hook is tied 12"-18" above the weight. His inexperienced clients are catching a lot of quality fish on this rig. More splash, more cash for Jimmy. He gets 20% auto gratuity on all corporate trips but often he'll get $100 cash tip from the customers. This aint bad for two-hour trips.
Did you know catfish in North America (and maybe worldwide) have 3 main fins or spikes they use for defense? There is one on each side right behind the gills and another on his back. They are very sharp and can be very dangerous. Small catfish are more dangerous than the big ones because the small ones have sharper fins and are harder to hold. On a big catfish the tips tend to be blunted. Be very careful with the old heads as the side fins are on the head when the fish are cleaned and people can step on them and the spikes can penetrate pretty stout footware. I would not be surprised if they would puncture tire.
Did you know WV Fall Turkey season started today? In my region it is open for a week and we can take one either sex turkey. Some other regions will be open for several weeks. I have no plans to hunt them but may try to crossbow a deer next week now that the weather is right to hang one overnight to chill.
Did you know the three most common ways to hook live bait like minnows for crappie or catfish are through the eye socket, through the lips or through the back? Hooking a minnow through the lips makes a nice presentation but it is very easy for a fish to knock them off. My preferred method is to hook my live bream or minnows through the eye socket. Properly done the hook slides in right in front of the eyeballs and out the other side in the same space with very little damage to the bait. They present a natural swimming motion this way and stay on the hook very well. I have had bream live for several days on catfish lines if they did not get knocked off by a fish. The last method I have used in the past was to hook the bait through the middle of the back. This hinders the fish from swimming and damages internal organs and the bait does not live very well this way so I no longer use this method except rarely with crappie minnows when the fish are biting really good and I happen to reuse a live bait that has previously been hooked in the lips and through the eye sockets. Yes, a minnow will often survive the first and sometimes second strike of crappies which push the bait up the line and he is still alive and can be re-hooked and re-used.
Did you know that if the hole in the middle of your 1/2 oz egg shaped lead sinker is too small to insert your #24 nylon cord to make a new limb line that you can hold it firmly in your Leatherman pliers and drill a larger hole in the soft lead with your cordless drill? Did you know that when you do and pick it up immediately afterwards you are probably going to put it right back down as it gets really hot in the process. ::)
When we used to bottom fish in the Gulf a lot, JMoore and I would melt lead pipe, dive weights and just about any other clean source of lead down to make egg sinkers. We bought a mold for 6-ounce weights. I liked the holes to be smaller than those made by the wires that came with the mold. We would cut stainless steel tig welding wire to make the weights fit nicely on 100 lb test mono or fluorocarbon leaders.
After a couple of pours, the mold would get hot, and the weights would be consistently better. We would dump the freshly molded weights into a 5-gallon bucket of water. In a short time, we could make a bunch of weights. A gallon bean can of 6-ounce weights would last us awhile. A quart or so of 1/2 ounce and 1-ounce weights would last us a long time.
I guess the point of all of this is that if you make your own weights, you can make the holes any size you want.
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There's one of our 1-ounce weights from 25 or more years ago with a good gag grouper on 20 lb. line. I spent way too much time trying to get that one out of the rocks.
Did you know old tire weights also make pretty decent sinkers if you have a mold as Cavey mentions above?
My dad bought a mold and talked to our neighborhood mechanic who had slowly quit mechanic and tire work and opened a small community store, bait shop and eventually built a cricket house. Dad took him the mold and got him to melt down a bunch of 1/2-1 oz lead weights to use on Dad's bushhooks. The style he used had a split down the middle and ears to fold over the line. He made dad a lifetime supply then started making and selling them in his store. I think he bought some other size molds but he had a bunch of leftover tire weights left to use up. I still have a handful of Dad's old weights on my bushhooks I used last week.
I have a 5-gallon pail full and rounded up of used wheel weights out in my garage, once in a while I'll go out and cast up a few .430 240 gr or .358 158 gr bullets.
The pail is obviously heavy enough that I cannot pick it up, so it's home is on the floor.
Did you know a handy way to carry a heavy sack of grain is to divide the load equally between 2 bags, tie the ends together and carry it over you shoulder like a saddlebag?
Deer feeders are legal in WV and I have one at a shooting house/deer blind that I have to carry corn to it about 250-300 yard from my ATV which includes crossing a run-off and up the hill (Everything is uphill in WV). To avoid multiple trips I remember carrying 2 100 lb bags of cow feed at a time as a teenager but carrying a single 50 lb bag of corn now wears me out. Carrying the load as described like a saddle bag holds it in place much better than a single sack and distributes the load better making the work a lot easier.
Do you know the science (Art?) of tracking down mortally wounded game animals? Every ethical hunter needs to know and practice these. If you have other hints and pointers please add them to this thread as it is very important.
The type of game animal and weapon used will often determine the distance a game animal will travel from the point where shot to the final resting spot. Game shot with a heavy caliber bullet with a well placed shot will not travel as far as the same animal shot with a bow or crossbow. Ideally the animal drops in his tracks and there is no need to track him but most big game animals are very hardy animals and even a well hit animal will often run quite a distance.
If the animal is at a different elevation and you see where it falls, if there are 2 hunters available have one stay at the spot and "walk the other one" in to the kill site even if it is only a few hundred feet. Even a pretty large animal makes a small bundle on the ground and it is easy to walk past the dead animal.
If you don't have a helper a good practice is to take out your compass and shoot an azimuth from your known point to the fallen animal then walk straight to the animal. Even if you have a compass be sure to identify objects near the fallen animal to help locate. Take note that is to the left of a funny looking rock or stump and the big pine is about 20' past it so if you walk too far you can stop and backtrack from a closer point. (I used the same technique with doing land navigation in the USMC and would identify a known point beyond my target to stop and shoot a shorter azimuth till I found it if I missed on the first try.)
If you do not see where the animal fell it is a great time to have a trained tracking dog to go help locate it. In Norway the government requires use of and certifies such tracking dogs. If you don't have one you're going to have to track it yourself.
The generally accepted practice is to wait 30-60 minutes after shooting the animal to start tracking. This allows the animal to bleed out closer to where it was shot. In some cases you cannot wait because of impending snow or rain which will remove the trail or impending darkness means it will be much harder to find. Coming back the next day is not an option in warm areas where the meat will spoil and in areas where predators such as coyotes are common as if they pick up the scent they will likely trail and eat the animal before you return,
If you have a helper it is better but since we often hunt alone this is not an option. First go the the last place you saw the animal and look for signs of blood. If you do not find any go back to the point where you first shot the animal and start looking for blood there. Blood trails can be very clear with big splashes of blood on the ground and on trees and bushes where the animal rubbed against them or it can be tiny drops scattered several feet to yards apart. Blood trails can completely or partially stop by an intestine or organ shifting to close the entry hole to the wound making the animal bleed internally but with no external signs. Often the trail is a combination of splashes and drops.
If you have a helper leapfrog from one blood spot to the next with one staying at the known spot and the other making semi-circles ahead looking for the next spot. When you find it, stop and let your partner repeat and search. Look for tracks and signs of torn or ground or leaves. In the eastern USA such search are often hindered by frequent yellow maple leaves with tiny red dots that look just like blood and you have to be sure it is blood before you continue. A handy tip is to take pieces of white toilet paper or paper towels and drop them on the blood as you find it. This will often point out a trail when you look back at the pieces so you know the general direction the animal was heading. A severely wounded/dying animal is much more likely to run downhill and will try to use established game trails in many cases. If it gets off the trail you are more likely to see the torn up earth and leaves and blood on the bushes. If you are by yourself and don't have paper or other markers put a stick or your hat or such at the last known blood and search in front till you find more, mark it, go get your hat and repeat leap frogging and searching till you find the animal of completely lose sign of any more blood.
Look at the color or the blood. Bright red means a lung was hit especially if you see air bubbles. You may find patches of hair, bone or flesh/fat along the trail. It can be a very long, tedious and slow process. If you finally just lose all signs of more blood, mark the last spot and look for likely hiding spots such as brush piles or brier patches where an injured animal would likely choose to hide. If there are none as a last resort continue downhill and search very carefully along any streams or run-offs or for any other natural or manmade obstacles such as fences that an injured animal could not jump or climb.
I shot a nice doe with my crossbow yesterday and had to trail her about 400-500 yards for 2 hours doing the stop and mark, search till I found a spot then repeat till finally the trail ended at a sheer drop off. After an imprudent climb/slide/roll down a 70-80 degree leaf covered slope I came to rest about 20-30 feet from my dead deer. It was a noteworthy tracking event but I should have chosen a safer descent.
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"The type of game animal and weapon used will often determine the distance a game animal will travel from the point where shot to the final resting spot. Game shot with a heavy caliber bullet with a well placed shot will not travel as far as the same animal shot with a bow or crossbow. Ideally the animal drops in his tracks and there is no need to track him but most big game animals are very hardy animals and even a well hit animal will often run quite a distance."
My experience generally has been different. I have dropped a deer on occasion with a bullet but with a crossbow, every deer that i have shot has dropped within sight. the last one only 30 yards from my tree. It could be that i aim for the lungs no matter what weapon i use and i feel that they bleed out faster from a broadhead than from a bullet. Just my 2 cents.
No argument just different experiences. This is the first crossbow kill I have made so I can't gauge it well yet. I have shot them with a bow and watched them fall within 50 yards and I shot one in the head with a muzzleloader with a 240 grain sabot pistol bullet and lost it to find it a week later 400 yards away. I shot a yearling with a 150 softpoint from my 30-06 where it looked like it sucked all the lungs out the exit hole and still had to trial it 80-90 yards before finding it behind a brush pile. Most of my rifle kills I have watched them fall within a few yards.
I was shooting at the heart and did not get the lungs on this one. Looks like the lungs would have been a better option and at least easier tracking.
Something tells me that on that head-shot, you more-or-less just shot the lower jaw off!
Headshots are not generally a good idea!
Just straight through the middle of the lungs is always good.
Chuck,
I have finished off deer shot in the jaw by others as you describe but this was from above and directly down into the skull. I still don't know why it did not scramble her brain.
Did you know that a lone wild turkey will sometimes stop and sit motionless for 30-40 minutes at a time? I've been watching a couple of solitary turkey hens visiting my deer feeders lately and they will just stop and sit. I don't know if they are looking for predators or warming in the sun or what they are doing. One sat there for half an hour and another solitary hen came up and she raised her wings to half mast like an angry swan and sent that upstart packing! And I bet the one she chased off was at least half again as big as she was.
Do you butcher your own big game? There are several techniques to learn but be aware it can be a lot of work and take a long time. After you break the animal down (Skin and quarter it) in many cases you will want to separate the muscle groups and you can often do this by inserting your hand/fingers and tearing them apart with just a little knife work to cut the major tendons and such. For better tasting meat the generally accepted practice is to remove as many of the tendons, sinew and silverskin as possible. These certainly clog up your grinder and cuber/tenderizer and do not taste good.
A good sharp boning knife is essential. In many cases you will simply hold the knife and slide the meat around to separate it from tendons or the silverskin. Muscles such as those on the lower legs have many such tendons. I often cut down till I feel one of these tendons then side the knife forward or backwards separate flesh from tenons. Another example is the backstrap or loin which typical is pretty much or entirely pulled free from the backbone but there is a thick covering of sinew on it. You can cut down through the meat then rotate your knife 90 degrees and pull the meat and separate the sinew from the meat with all the meat pulling free. When you reach the end, reverse the knife and do the other side. The knife blade is pretty much laid flat against the cutting boards.
Another point is when you go to grind meat for use as burger or sausage have it very near freezing temperature so it cuts better int he grinder.
It is rewarding and you get a lot of self satisfaction cutting up your own meat but it is a lot of work and you develop a lot more respect for a good butcher.
Do you know in many cases ER doctors and surgeons do not make good butcher because they are reluctant to make large cuts that normally thy have to close back up. :D
Actually I have a bunch of rubber surgical gloves my son gave me from his work after they disposed of them for passing their shelf life. I like to were them because it protects my hands from getting blood and such in many nicks and cuts on my hands from a contact dermatitis problem I have.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 22, 2023, 05:08:04 PM
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Do you know in many cases ER doctors and surgeons do not make good butcher because they are reluctant to make large cuts that normally thy have to close back up. :D
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Hmmm, Interesting point. In my Dad's moose hunting group (years ago), the guy that specialized and did all the butchering work for the crew was a Dentist by profession. I wonder what that says. :) ;D
Butchered my own every year but one, since the second year I hunted in 1964. Learn by doing. Last several years pull the hide off from neck down using the tractor. Works like a charm. The elk were a different story.
I've always processed my own game. I enjoy the process, as long as I have the time.
I've used a lot of different blades, but I've settled on several lengths of Rapala filet knives for boning and breaking down meat, and getting the silverskin off- which is really a fileting process. They work for me.
All mammals (well anything I care to eat anyhow) are pretty much put together the same. So once you understand the muscle groups it gets easier to make sense of things and take a methodical approach to breaking them down. Pigs are put together similar to elk, etc.
We processed a bison a couple years back...now I did learn a few things (read that as got humbled) on that beast. First, bison hide doesn't peel off. You get to cut every square inch of that hide loose😬
Second, a bison's hump is not fat. Well, it contains fat, but most importantly the hump is comprised of long rib like bones that extend from the vertebrae. IIRC, they were 13" long on this animal, which was a young heifer (not that big). So I learned I wasn't going to get to split the animal in half with my handy little sawzall🤦 We ended up just cutting around the hump, removing it and boning it out for roasts.
The hump is a mass of muscle, fat, and sinew. Large tendons from the neck come all the way back and anchor to the hump, and all of those muscles are what enable the bison to dig through deep snow to reach grass underneath. It was pretty fascinating to get to dissect that animal and see how it was put together!
The hump was regarded as a prime cut of meat back in the day. When I looked at our buffalo hump, I was confused because all of the gristle and intertwined sinews and fat was something I would've passed up if it was on the shelf in the grocery store. After reading some historical accounts, I learned that the reason it was considered prime was because it is marbled with fat.
Bison meat, while tasting similar to beef, has no marbling. It looks more like venison in that regard. So that hump was considered a delicacy because of all the fat it contained.
I read other accounts of how the early explorers would sometimes shoot a bison only to discover that it was what they considered "very poor" condition and they might only take the tongue and perhaps the hump. When you read more, you discover that they considered it "very poor" simply because the animal lacked body fat.
Those early explorers (well pretty much anyone that didn't have our modern diet) didn't have any body fat themselves, so every day they weren't taking fat in from an animal they were losing their physical condition- so fat was the name of the game. If they were feeding on a lean animal when they were on the move, with the meat being their only diet, they were losing ground. So if there were other animals to choose from, they would take another.
Me and the family got into "binge watching" the reality TV show, "Alone". There are 10 contestants that are dropped off in a remote location, seperated from each other. Iirc, they each get to select 10 survival items to bring with them. Tarp, axe, firestarter are common items. Last person to give upwind $500k.
Anyways, every episode I've watched, there may be a few people who hit the button on their provided satellite phone and tap out because they are lonely, scared, etc. But for the ones that make it to later stages, it is just a starvation contest. So you get to see how critical fat intake is for them to not lose body weight rapidly.
One guy was able to kill a moose. He was eating a good ration of moose meat daily, but losing an alarming amount of weight. He was also able to net some nice fatty lake trout through the ice. He built a cache for his moose meat and lake trout. He also had fat off the mouse's back iirc. A wolverine broke into his cache, guess what it took? All of the fat, and the lake trout. Didn't bother the moose meat🤷
That guy ended up killing a wolverine with an ax handle, he was a beast! 😂 He ended up winning the contest.
Sorry this turned into a bit of a ramble. I know this, the early explorers would've found me to be in "prime" physical condition, at least by buffalo standards😁
some of us are multi-talented! ::) :o :snowball: :)
barbender
Similar to the account of the biologist dropped off in northern Canada to learn what the wolves ate to survive. The account led to the movie Never Cry Wolf.
In short, the biologist saw the wolves eating mice, not caribou which was thought to be their diet. So the biologist tried catching and eating mice, but couldn't sustain his weight. Not until he stopped gutting the mice, and eating them cooked but whole.
Good movie, but how close to being true, I didn't read the book.
Seems like I read somewhere that you would starve to death if you only had quail or rabbit to eat.
I know on the Alaska shows they talk about the main need is for fat. I also read about starving to death eating a steady diet of rabbit. I remember reading old mountain men and such would roast the bison hump and preferred the tongue but did not know it was because of the fat found there. I did hear on the survival shows where the main source of fat was the fish there in Canada where they were competing in most cases.
BB,
I was surprised to learn the bison hide did not separate from the meat easily. I have watched several skinned on Mountain Man TV series and thought it came right off. I know the hardest animal I ever skinned was a beaver because it did not separate as you describe and from what I gather the same is true with an alligator.
All,
Thanks for the comments and tips here.
I am surprised there were not some more comments and suggestions on tracking wounded game as I figured that was a very worthwhile post and would love to hear of any other pointers I left out.
Quote from: Magicman on October 23, 2023, 08:17:00 AM
Seems like I read somewhere that you would starve to death if you only had quail or rabbit to eat.
Lynn,
That was from people up in the glatiated northern climes. In the south we'd be okay because we'd probably be cooking them in hog lard and eating them with grits and red-eye gravy. :D
WV, I thought you covered all of the bases on tracking, or at least nothing I could add too. I think the biggest thing with a questionably hit animal, is to leave it lay. "When in doubt, get out." Oftentimes they will bed down not far from where they were shot, and if you try and track them right away all you end up doing is jumping them out of their bed and then they will run a long ways. Whereas, if left alone they may have died in their bed.
Sometimes that doesn't work, like an impending storm is going to wash out or cover all the sign.
It's really hard to track an animal that isn't bleeding anymore. I've followed trails where the sign got less and less, and eventually the deer's tracks started to mingle with other deer tracks in the leaves. Without a drop of blood here and there, it becomes impossible to distinguish which tracks are which. At least at my tracking skill level.
Beenthere, I think I remember watching Never Cry Wolf when I was a kid on the Disney Channel at the time.
I've read how Natives in Canada and Alaska ate some parts of the entrails of moose and caribou that are pretty off-putting to me. But it was the only way they could get some of the necessary nutrients in their diet. The interior organ fat was prized as well, IIRC.
Wolves often devour the entrails of prey first. There are some sort of nutrients in them that they are needing, no doubt.
While on the subject, one of the most striking accounts in the Lewis and Clark journals to me was when they first came into contact with the Shoshone tribe, one of the Corp's hunters shot a deer. The whole tribe ran to the kill site, and while they were careful to not touch any of the edible meat, they proceeded to devour the gut pile😬 The Corps hadn't realized these people were starving.
The mountain tribes were terrified of the Blackfeet who ruled the plains, where all of the game was. So they had to wait for a chance to sneak out to hunt buffalo.
BB,
Spooking the wounded deer is exactly what I did in this case. It was laying about100 yards from where I shot it till I walked out with Sampson in the lead and he jumped it and chased it till it fell off the cliff. And he did bay at it there a couple of times but then he left.
That is a good topic for today:
Did you know that an inexperienced dog will readily learn when hunted with an experienced dog? I have had pretty good dogs that would chase squirrels but would not bark at them when they treed. After hunting them with a good treeing dog they learned to stand at the tree and bark too. That is one reason good houndsmen seem to always want to keep a pack of young dogs coming along with a good experienced dog or two to help teach them. Some dogs will naturally bark on trail and on the tree but others need to be shown. I assume that is the same with pointing and flushing bird dogs.
Interesting. I've only had one bird dog, and that poor guy had to learn from me. In spite of that, he turned into a heck of a hunter. RIP Cody, he was a great dog.
I enjoyed watching that dog work, more than I did the actual hunting. It is amazing the "program" they have. Cody was the dopiest, lazy goofball around the house. But when we hit the woods, he transformed! All business, his ears squared off with a stern countenance- let's hunt! He wouldn't eat his favorite treats, and wouldn't let you pet him.
He'd work an area, back and forth with his nose on the ground. When he picked up the scent of a rabbit or squirrel, he'd notice but not be distracted by it. However, when he picked up grouse scent his body language changed and you knew to get ready! And within seconds he'd put them up.
All of this in a dog we got from the pound, took a chance on him because he looked like a "bird dog". I'm fairly certain he was a lab/German shorthair cross. We had some trials with neither of us knowing what we were doing, but he figured things out and those few seasons we had together are some of my fondest hunting memories.
Regarding the subject of nutrients gained from eating game animals, some early explorers looking for the northern passage suffered miserably from lack of certain nurtients/vitamins. Then they learned from the eskimos/inuits that it was better to eat meat raw. Cooking meat destroys important nutrients.
Back to non-barking hunting dogs - Did you know a common technique used with dogs tat would not bark on trail or at the tree was to put a bell on their collar. You could hear them running along a trail and you'd better be ready to shoot as there was a good chance the animal was practically in sight and not far ahead as it would be with a barking dog. With treeing dogs the bell ringing in the same area was an indicator it was treed. Of course you could not hear the dog as far away as if it was barking but it was better than nothing.
Now many hunters use GPS tracking collars to locate and follow their dogs. Unfortunately several coon hunters who used to hunt with my uncle in N. Fla and were "having their best dogs getting stolen" found the collars in the belly of a large gator. :(
Did you know that even a blunt decocking arrow used in a 415 fps crossbow will penetrate the hide of a big gnarly racoon at a range of 15 yards? Did you know that even a mortally wounded big gnarly racoon will still run off with your decocking arrow stuck in him? Did you know that even an inexpensive replacement decocking arrow costs between $15-$20? ::)
Did you know that even a mostly lap dog rat terrier can still locate a dead racoon 50 yards from where it was shot and allow you to recover your decocking arrow? thumbs-up
You can easily break a decocking arrow by shooting it into frozen or rocky ground. ;)
Yeah but at least you can find it. :D
I don't know what the shaft is made of but the head just screws on to a standard arrow insert. I assume you could remove it and use it with any old arrow/bolt.
Did you know that people used to say coons were real clean animals because they liked to wash their food? In fact what the coon is doing is wetting the food apparently to make it easier to swallow. If water is available he will "wash" his food first. If not available he wills till eat.
My cousin had a pet coon and gave him a sugar cube. He was really surprised when he washed it and it disappeared. The next one they gave him he thought about it then ate it dry. :D
We had some pet coons when I was a kid. They would "wash" their food in the liquid in the barn gutter (think cattle urine and excrement).
Did you know coons can be very temperamental as pets? My old mentor told of one a family had and they left him at home alone one day. They came home and found he had gotten into the dish cabinet and pulled down and broken every dish in there except one heavy China bowl that would not break and he'd taken a dump in it.
My son had one in his late teens he took to college with him. It would play tag and run from you and hassle like a dog. When you stopped, he'd stop and when you turned and ran he'd chase you. He was actually a lot of fun except his dang teeth were so sharp when he'd nip at your socked feet hen he wanted to play. He would use the litter box but would not cover his piles. He was always vicious when he had food and you never messed with him when he was eating.
He liked to fish for the minnows in the bait bucket. He'd grab a half eaten can of cat food and run behind the TV to eat it. My wife made a halter out of 2 dog collars with a small one around the neck and a bigger one around his hips. She sewed it together and put a D ring on or the leash. My son had a proper permit from DNR to own him and he was a real "chick magnet" as he'd take him for a walk and all the girls and young women wanted to come pet him.
Did you know you need to be careful burning those Autumn leaves because if you have poison ivy in the area and their leaves get mixed it with the others the toxins/allergens in them can be concentrated in the smoke? Breathing smoke from poison ivy leaves gets the "bad stuff" into your lungs and eyes and can have serious consequences. Be careful out there.
How true that is. My brother got a job with the town. They were burning a banken that had poison ivy in it. He was out of work for a while from that.
He was lucky it did not get into his lungs.
That is some awful stuff to do that.
I could find it if I looked, but read in Reader's Digest many year's ago, one drop could infest 1000 people. :o
And yet there are birds that eat poison ivy seeds. I've watched Yellow-rumped warblers eat the seeds in the fall. Do a search for wildlife use of poison ivy. Deer eat the leaves with no ill effects.
Goats love it too. I don't! I'm pretty sensitive to it.
well KEC, maybe that is why they warble and have a yellow rump! 8) :o :snowball: :) :) :)
Smart Allec! ;D
Did you know that a powerful leaf blower is a great tool to use for fire fighting? When my son was in the WV National Guard he would sometimes be activated to go fight forest fires this time of year. They would use high quality leaf blowers to blow clear a line in the leaves. Then a back fire was started to create an even wider line with no flammable material so when the fire reached this point it died out. When I took a Forest Fire Control and use class at AU we were given fire rakes made from old farm machinery and we would rake clear a 5-6 ft wide path for this purpose. A leaf blower would be much faster and easier to use than what we did.
Of course a tractor or dozer with a plow or blade did a great job of creating such fire breaks and natural features such as streams of water would be used where available.
A leaf blower is also very handy for speeding up the burning of a brush pile by adding extra O2 to the fire.
The new battery-operated ones work great for this.
Ron,
I've got a 20V battery powered one from HF (Bauer brand) I use with the mill and I really like it but I would not think it would last long enough to clear a very long trail /firebreak through the woods. I'd think the big backpack Stihl type blowers would be more in order for that application.
Did you know that instead of raking or blowing Autumn leaves into piles and bagging or burning them that you can chop them up with your lawn mower and mulch them returning the nutrients to the soil?
Did you know that when doing so the dry leaves can overflow the mower deck and get lodged between the moving deck belt and the pulley? Did you know that moving deck belts create friction and that friction generates heat? Did you know that dry Autumn leaves are excellent tinder and ignite and burn quickly when sufficient heat is applied? Did you know that the 54" mower deck on an MTD brand mower is located directly under the gas tank?
Did you know that even an old man can exit a "burning chariot" quickly to break the fire triangle (Fuel-Heat-O2) by removing sufficient dry Autumn leaves and put out the fire if he is lucky? smiley_sweat_drop
(Maybe this needs to be in the Did something Dumb thread? ::))
New Twist (sorta outdoorsy) - Bible Trivia (Back to Sunday School with you) -
1. How many smooth round stones did David collect before going into battle with Goliath?
2. Why?
Howard, I think we should all chip in on a Gopro for you so we can have video documentation of some of your misadventures😂
I don't remember how many stones David collected.
Howard I was struggling to figure which part of the fire triad you were as you removed yourself. :D :o 8) then I read on. glad/hope you saved the mower. .. glad you are OK as well ;) I had some dry leaf stuff fall through the guard on my exhaust on my walker. you tip the bagger to dump, and it actually caught fire. I blew to move the leaf debris and it went out.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 30, 2023, 12:40:52 PM1. How many smooth round stones did David collect before going into battle with Goliath?
5 stones
Why? I'd guess it was time to restock his ammo bag?
Glad you got the fire out.
One stone.
Because he knew that's was all he needed.
RT,
Five is right. Why is wrong.
Ray,
Wrong. Sorry.
Any more guesses on why he took 5 stones?
(1) Faith; (2) Trust; (3) Courage; (4) Obedience; and (5) Praise.
BT,
Nice answer but not the one I'm looking for.
Any answer is subjective, as the Bible simply states he took 5 smooth stones from the brook.
There's speculation that Goliath had 4 brothers, as David and his army killed 4 more giants in time. But the Bible doesn't say that David knew that when he picked up the stones.
How long will the Riddler keep us in suspense?😁
BB,
I am glad somebody stayed awake in Sunday School. You came up with the answer I was looking for. I wasn't there but did hear in a sermon that Goliath had 4 brothers. (I either heard it or it was one of the sermons I slept through and I dreamed it. ;))
If that is correct David was very confident in his abilities and his "Support Network".
Did you know a compass still points north even if you are in the southern hemisphere? Seems confusing as you'd think it would point to the closest pole and would go crazy on the equator.
I did not know that🤔
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on October 31, 2023, 08:38:36 PM
Did you know a compass still points north even if you are in the southern hemisphere? Seems confusing as you'd think it would point to the closest pole and would go crazy on the equator.
Well technically one end of the Compass points Nth, while the other end points Sth. The magnetic needle has it's own Nth and Sth ends, and swings to line up with the Earth's field. Think of it like holding 2 bar magnets in your hand. If they are matching polarity, they repel each other. If the Ends are opposite, they stick together. So one magnet is the Earth, the other is the needle, and because the needle is a zillion times lighter than the Earth, it's the one that moves into alignment.
Only time it would freak out is if you were at either magnetic pole (which isn't exactly at the geographic pole) Then the compass wouldn't do anything much, no clear magnetic field for it to align with.
What does reverse over the equator is storm directions. In the Nth you have Hurricanes / Typhoons that spin counter clockwise. In the South they are called Cyclones, and spin Clockwise. Same sort of storm, but opposite spin direction.
Ian,
Good point. That was the old "Intelligence Question - where are you if everywhere you turn your compass points north? Answer: The South Pole.)
Did you know there there is a Magnetic north and a true north? It varies where you are in the world but it is a few degrees difference. I am thinking 6-7 degrees left or right. The needle on your compass points to Magnetic north and true north will be left or right of that line.
Did YOU know that magnetic north is moving all the time? In 1964 the declination (the difference between true north and magnetic north) was 12°w where I am sitting right now, and today that declination is 12°48'w. It moves about 3' every year.
NOAA has a calculator that will give the declination for your location FOUND HERE (https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/calculators/magcalc.shtml?).
How much correction you need to apply between magnetic and true North depends on exactly where on the globe you are. There will be places where the Mag and True actually align, and other areas (close to the poles) where it could be off by any number.
As well as the magnetic poles moving, its also able to reverse polarity, for reasons that aren't fully explained. Its happened hundreds of times, with the last one being ~48,000 years ago. At that time the poles reversed and stayed flipped for about 500 years before flipping back to "normal".
They track this by looking at the alignment of magnetic material in sediment layers and lava. Some tiny crystals act like compass needles as they settle in sediment, so you can trace the magnetic field that was in place as the sediment was laid down.
Also, apart from compasses going haywire there is no evidence that pole reversals create any great problems for the Earth. They have happened before, and will probably happen again.
Tom,
I did not know but am not surprised magnetic north keeps shifting every year.
Ian,
I did know the difference between true and magnetic north varied based on your location. I did not know the poles periodically flip-flop and I bet that causes havoc the next time it happens.
All,
Depending on what we are using it for the difference between magnetic and true North may not matter especially for relatively short distances. If you are just shooting an azimuth line to intersect a river, road or railroad to find your way out of the woods either are probably close enough. The same is true if you are shooting a line to a fallen game animal from your tree stand or such either will work as long as you use the same line and backline for both if you have to start over.
Anytime that I've gone off the beaten path out hunting, say in the Adirondacks, I study a topographic map and make sure that I can aim for a long road or stretch of river to get out. Not only does it negate the need to worry about the difference between magnetic North and true North, but it is nearly impossible to move in a straight line. Too many wetholes, fallen trees, huge boulders etc. to work around. Having a lot of margin for error is important.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 01, 2023, 07:20:44 PMDepending on what we are using it for the difference between magnetic and true North may not matter especially for relatively short distances.
Back in the day if you wanted to sail from say NZ to Rarotonga, it's almost 1500 miles of open ocean, and you are looking for an Island that's only ~10 miles across. Exact navigation becomes important.
In the local National Park it's basically one big hill. If you got lost, follow a river and keep going downhill, and you will get to farmland / roads. Out East in the hill country the terrain is a lot more broken, and it's possible to get yourself "turned around". Think you are following a ridge, but in the undergrowth you walk in a U. Checking your compass helps there, but with GPS it both puts you on it's map, and tells you which way you are facing.
I went coon hunting one night and the dogs immediately crossed the slough after a coon. I waded out waist deep after them but they came back without treeing so I resumed my hunt. My planned tourn around point was a big slough ahead that I normally could not cross. It had been very dry and the slough was just a slight dip and I overshot it. Finally the dog treed and I killed a big coon and was carrying it back. I did not remember the place so I got out my compass.
Did you know that most compasses do not work when they are full of water?
Since I could not use my waterlogged compass I had to use other survival/navigational skills. I heard highway noises to my left so knowing the highway was west of me and the railroad was halfway there running north and south. I figured I'd walk to the railroad then south to a getting off point close to my truck. I did that for another hour lugging the big dead coon. Finally the moon came up - straight in my face!
Did you know the moon rises in the east and sets in the west just like the sun does?
What I was hearing and thinking were highway sounds were noise from the door plant east of me just outside of town. The noise was carrying down the river to my right which was why I could hear it. I had to turn around and re-trace my steps the whole way. I finally got back to my truck a worn out puppy dog. My dog did tree and I killed another coon within 30' of my truck. He was overhead eating wild muscadine grapes.
Navigating across hundreds of miles of ocean to a small island and navigating in the woods are definately two entirely different things. Following a stream to get out of the woods carrys some risks. That stream might take you a long way in the wrong direction. And you will learn how many alder swamps, beaver ponds and dense spruce stands are there. Unfortunately, even if you have a map and the compass points you to your destination, the compass does not tell you how wet the ground is or how thick the spruce or alders are; nor will the map. Or so I've heard. I read once of a guy out hunting in Canada with a Cree guide. They got turned around in an area of low, flat terrain. When it got dark, the guide looked up and could see light reflecting off a lake he was familiar with and was able to fiqure out which way they needed to go. I am sometimes struck by how my instincts tell me which way I should go but the compass proves otherwise. I sometimes use the compass in areas where I don't need it just to be comfortable with it and learn to trust it better. Maintaining your composure when you're having trouble navigating is crucial. My 2 cents.
Did you know that at high noon your shadow points north? That is because the sun hits on the south side and why they say moss grows in the shady north side of trees. Unfortunately where I live there are many shaded hollers and the sun does not reach much and moss grows on all sides of the tree so that does not help much.
Iaanab, I looked at a map of NZ and Rarotonga. If you were thinking of making that trip, for your safety and well being, you should delete me from the list of potential navigator candidates. :D
KEC, I agree. In northern MN if you just try to follow a compass bearing you will at best get wet and at worst end up under water😬
My daughter and I were elk hunting out in the mountains out West. We climbed out of a canyon we didn't belong in at the end of the day. By the time we got to the top, it was pitch black and I was shot. I knew I needed to go dead west, the problem was that following the compass would drop us into another arm of the canyon. There was no way I was doing that.
So we stayed up high, in a nice long park. Even though I knew we weren't going the right direction. We had to stop, collect ourselves, have a little prayer, and then finally figure out where we were. We made it back to camp about 11:00 that night, good and wore out. That's the closest I've got to having to spend a night out in the woods because I couldn't find my way out.
Did you know there are apparently far more whitetail deer in the USA today than when the first settlers arrived? Modern agricultural methods, elimination of predators and diseases, and other factors have allowed their population to explode in many cases.
Did you know that most states have a whitetail deer management plan that includes culling or removing a certain percentage of the does every year to help maintain the deer herd at a healthy/sustainable level. For example here in WV some counties will require a hunter to shoot an antlerless deer before they can harvest a second antlered buck. I remember when I hunted in GA in the mid 1980's we got 3 deer tags with our license. One was for an antlered buck, one was either sex and one was for antlerless so to tag out you had to to kill at least one antlerless deer. Another technique to control the doe herd here in WV is youth/senior hunts that allow youths 8-14 and seniors over 65 on selected days to kill an antlerless deer that does not count against their season bag limit. Only antlerless deer can be harvested on these hunts. It encourages people taking young people hunting as the youth has to be accompanied by a non-hunting licensed adult and seniors can stock their freezers. Currently is is possible for these hunters to take 4 "free" deer if they connect on each of the 4 days allowed.
Many urban areas allow special hunts that do not count against your season bag limit. In many cases these deer have to be harvested with a bow or crossbow due to the proximity of residences and such.
Did you know squirrels instinctively know to hide behind their tree and to keep the tree between them and the hunters so the hunters can't see them? If you are hunting in pairs or groups this is an easy fix. You walk up to the tree together, find a good spot to see the entire tree well and post the shooter there then the other hunter walks a wide circle around the tree and the squirrel will keep turning the tree keeping the trunk between him and the walker. Eventually the squirrel will be clearly exposed to the shooter who can bushwhack him from behind. Use silent hand and arm signals for this because if the shooter is talking to the walker the squirrel still knows he is there.
This technique is a fun trip with the kids and novice hunters. If they are old enough to shoot safely post them as the shooter then you walk around the tree kicking dry leaves and shaking small noisy bushes until the shooter sees and can shoot the squirrel. If your kids are too young to shoot you take a post as the shooter and they can walk around the tree making all the noise they want and they will expose the squirrel to you. Squirrel hunting is a great start for young hunters as they don't have to sit still and they don't have to be quiet unless you are still hunting.
If you are by yourself this is more complicated. You can walk circles around the tree hoping the squirrel keeps going higher till eventually you see enough of him to shoot. You can sometimes throw dead limbs and rocks from one side of the tree to the other and make him think there is someone there and he will move. Some people take a roll of string and tie to a noisy bush on one side of the tree then walk to the other and pull the string to fool the squirrel into moving. You can sit quietly and eventually he will come out but that could be a long wait.
If you have a small companion dog they can sometimes walk around the other side and make the squirrel expose himself but if you toss a stick the dog will likely run get it and maybe expose the squirrel but being an obedient fetcher, when he brings you back the stick the squirrel will likely duck back so you better be ready and shoot quickly when you first see him. :D
Did you know that turtles don't hibernate - they brumate? It is pretty much the same process in that the turtles, such as box turtles. dig a burrow in the soft soil and chill out till it warms up outside. They may even dig deeper as the temps get colder.
I have seen at least one snapping turtle moving under the ice in the winter. Some turtles have some adaptation (Beyond my comprehension) where their bodies can freeze without killing them.
My local taxidermist caught a live rattlesnake to mount. He did not want any damage to the skin so he dropped it in his freezer to kill it so he could later skin it out. Several months later when he thawed it out.....yup, still alive.
Quote from: KEC on November 06, 2023, 09:45:25 PM
I have seen at least one snapping turtle moving under the ice in the winter. Some turtles have some adaptation (Beyond my comprehension) where their bodies can freeze without killing them.
My dad said when he was a kid ( born in 1922) they would often spear turtles just after there was enough ice on a shallow lake by there house. He said they would walk out on the ice and if it had frozen clear, they could see the turtles on the bottom of the lake. They would chop a hole and then spear them with a long spear. Growing up during the great depression, you get creative.
I killed a large cottonmouth while duck hunting one time when it was 20 degrees outside and there was ice all along the edges of the stream. He was swimming right down the middle of a stream. I have no idea why he was active in conditions like that.
I had a friend who had a brother who worked with the movie industry and was the snake wrangler. He would set up scenes in westerns and such where the rattlesnake was coiled and ready to strike. He'd keep several in a cooler pretty much on ice so he could set them up safely. You can bet the actors wanted to get that scene right the first time with no re-takes before the snake thawed out enough to get active.
Did you know beech trees are about the last hardwoods to lose their leaves in WV in the Fall? Right now almost all the other hardwoods have lost their leaves but the beech trees still have a fair number left and will hold on to some through the entire winter. I have watched deer browsing on them late in the season. I don't think they have much nutritional value but they provide some fill - I guess they are equivalent to deer as popcorn is to us.
That is the same in Wisconsin, I was walking in some oak stands today that have a lot of sapling and pole size beech. We really only have beech within about 50-75 miles of Lake Michigan in the east part of the state. The northern red oak also likes to keep it's leaves on longer than other northern hardwoods.
Edit: Ash seems to be about the first to lose it's leaves here.
Ash- grows them last and drops them first. I think they have leaves for about 3 weeks😁
Buckeye is about the first to turn and start losing their leaves around here.
Black Gum is our first tree to show color and to drop their leaves.
Basically the only trees that lose leaves over winter in NZ are introduced species. So we have some of the various maple / poplar / walnut / cherry that give the Autumn colours. There are a couple of species that might get pretty bare, but otherwise it all stays green, even the hardwoods.
But then we don't get the extended cold winter. The sub-alpine trees up on the Mt might get covered in snow, and some hard frosts. but they don't drop their leaves. They are more like the "live oak" species, and don'd drop most of their leaves until the new ones sprout.
Did you know the fruit of the Pecan is not actually a nut but is a drupe? :o :o ???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecan
Add the other members of the Hickory family to the list; Hickory nuts and Walnuts.
Interesting. My son has a mild allergy to "tree nuts". Walnuts, pecans and hazelnuts, all drupes. He can eat almonds (true nut?) as well as peanuts (legume).
How about other drupes like plums and peaches and such? How does he do with coconut?
Well, never got him to eat peaches or plums. He reacts to coconut as well. So, maybe he just has a drupe allergy? He also reacts to macadamia nuts.
Did you know if you don't have any more rail lube for your crossbow you can use Chap stick/lip balm in a pinch?
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 07, 2023, 06:44:03 PM
Did you know beech trees are about the last hardwoods to lose their leaves in WV in the Fall? Right now almost all the other hardwoods have lost their leaves but the beech trees still have a fair number left and will hold on to some through the entire winter. I have watched deer browsing on them late in the season. I don't think they have much nutritional value but they provide some fill - I guess they are equivalent to deer as popcorn is to us.
Beech nuts are actually very popular with deer once they get a pod open there are 2 fair size nuts worthy of taking. Most beech trees here have succumbed to beech bark disease and leaf disease there aren't many around. I did collect 100 some seeds from a few massive trees in the graveyard this fall, I potted all of them so I hope for a decent turn out
And will plant most sporadically on my land, some gifted to friends
Beech have triangle shaped nuts in a little burr. Turkey, squirrels, doves and deer love them. I can't think of many animals that don't love them. Actually they are very tasty and remind me of eating a fresh picked peanut.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 09, 2023, 04:13:50 PMyou can use Chap stick/lip balm in a pinch?
I am told that it is also good for hemorrhoids..........in a pinch. :D
Just a pinch between your cheek and....
I've heard the same, Magic. But I just decided to leave it alone. At least you didn't share pictures😂
Quote from: Magicman on November 09, 2023, 09:44:34 PM
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 09, 2023, 04:13:50 PMyou can use Chap stick/lip balm in a pinch?
I am told that it is also good for hemorrhoids..........in a pinch. :D
Reminder - this is coming from an Army veteran not a former Marine. :D :D
True story:
Several years ago while hunting in Wyoming my x-son in law developed badly chapped lips. He knew full well that I always carry a Chap Stick so he finally asked if he could borrow mine so I handed it to him. He later commented on how much the Chap Stick helped his lips. I deadpanned that it also helped my hemorrhoids. He spat and never ever asked to use my Chap Stick again. He knew that I was joking, but was I? He could not take a joke. The juicy part was that Marty and a friend witnessed the whole episode. :D
Reminds me of a meeting we had in Saudi. My boss had a bad cold and was hacking and wheezing and finally the project director pulled out some kind of horse pill and tossed to him and said "Here, take this before you kill us all." Joe swallowed it right down then Ron, the construction manager sitting next to him. said "Joe, that was a suppository."
Joe never forgave him for that.
Quoteyou can use Chap stick/lip balm in a pinch?
Didn't think that Marines would use chap stick..
I think it could be made into an explosive. petrol based. :snowball: :D :D :D
According to my first exchange student, a Swede, did you know the Swedish military issue a big tube of a multi-purpose chapstick that doubles as cooking grease and such? She said her brother brought some back from his training and said if you went to cook something you greased the pan with it first. I assume it was something like Crisco but they used it for chapped lips, cooking, might have lubed their weapons and I would not doubt it would have worked for hemorrhoids.
That's kinda cool, as long as the hemorrhoid tube is kept seperate😬
BB,
I think they only got issued one tube. I guess you'd have to remember which end you used for what purpose. ::) :D
Did you know that petroleum based lubricants will "kill" a primer or powder on a cartridge or bullet or a primer cap on a muzzleloader? You can't let oil or WD40 or such come into contact with them. Crisco works as well as "bore butter" on a muzzleloader.
Did you know bamboo grows in large clumps rather than as individual plants? In Africa they called it Indian Bamboo and clumps of bamboo 10-12 feet in diameter were common with individual stalks over 5-6 inches in diameter common. IITC they were growing or at least started from a common root stalk.
Did you know that one technique used to make a blowgun was to take a hollow plant like a bamboo section, spilt it into 2 halves down the middle, cut/grind out the joint sections, put the two pieces back together and wrap them tightly so they are air tight?
I have a small blowgun, about 2' long, I bought in Ecuador near Cuya Beuno (Where they have done several of the Naked and Afraid episodes since we left there) on an Amazon trip there in December 2008. The 2 halves were rejoined using eelskin. They tell me it would have been a starter blowgun for a child to learn on before graduating to a longer adult hunting blowgun. I could not get a 12' blowgun in my luggage but I could fit this one in my suitcase. Since I had met my wife there for the trip and I was going back to Norway where I was working she had packed it to bring home. The agriculture dogs in the airport alerted on her bag I guess because of the eelskin or whatever but the officials took it out and checked it and even tested the darts to make sure they did not have any poison frog poison on the tps then they let her pack and take it home.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3830.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1699885372)
The blowgun with a ballpoint pen for scale. The bamboo section is a holder for the darts. Most have no "fletching". One dart is shown. They take the slender, sharpened wooden dart, place one end in their mouth to moisten it and roll it in Kapok fluff (like making a Q-tip) so it will seal in the blowgun and provide balance in flight. They then tip the sharp end in poison made from the sweat glands of a bunch of tiny poison dart frogs. (Caution: Remember to put the fletching on before putting the poison on in case you put the wrong end in your mouth). The little gourd is stuffed with Kapok fluff they collect from huge trees along the river. It looks like cotton balls.
Interesting. :P
Johnny Cash - The Legend of John Henry's Hammer (Official Audio) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQaIMRxIbfw)
Did you know the legend of John Henry is based on truth and occurred here near Talcott WV when they dug/drilled the tunnel for the CSX railroad. A John Henry historical park is at the entrance to the tunnel today. A new tunnel has been built to the side and is currently in use.
John Henry was a former slave and did beat an early steam engine in a contest driving drill steel in the hard rock. John Henry apparently used 2 smaller hammers instead of one large hammer. He must have had a brave helper to hold and rotate the drill bits as he drove it with a windmill rhythm with his hammers.
John's wife Polly is buried in the nearby Simpson Methodist Church cemetery but there is no record of where John is buried.
The post office did commemorative stamps to American legends including Paul Bunyan, Casey at the Bat, Pecos Bill and John Henry but John was the only one who was based on a real live person.
That is the first time that I have ever heard/listened to Johnny Cash's "John Henry". 8)
Haven't heard it in some time.
The Ballad of John Henry is a traditional folk tune covered by so many artists over the years and there are a plethora of versions. Hanging out with folkies I have heard a lot of them. Still one of my favorites was from the Smothers brothers. It was also one of the first versions I had heard so it stuck in my head and I can still sing along with it. I have this album and used to listen to it a lot growing up.
The Saga Of The John Henry - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHJC5IZ7GiQ)
I like Johnny Cash's version, but it seems the production and arranging could have been smoother for a big star like John.
These days I have this version on my play list in the truck and hear it often enough. This is by my neighbors, The Mammals. The lead vocals on this are sung by Tao Rodreguez Seeger (yeah, Pete's grandson) and he also plays banjo on it.
John Henry - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSFtsyXDc7Q)
Either way, or whatever version, it's a great tune, but a tough one to call at a sing ci5rcle because EVERYBODY has a different version. :D
John Henry Park, Talcott, WV (U.S. National Park Service) (https://www.nps.gov/places/john-henry-park-talcott-wv.htm)
At the entrance to the tunnel area they have a little shed with information and a player with several versions of the John Henry Ballad. You can push a button and listen to each.
It is about 13-14 miles from my house. I'm scheduled to saw logs the next 2 days probably within 2 miles of it along the Greenbrier River.
Geez, I hope they left out the Joe Bonamassa version. That one I really don't care for much. It seems like heavy appropriation.
What is the world's most dangerous bird? | Library of Congress (https://www.loc.gov/everyday-mysteries/zoology/item/worlds-most-dangerous-bird/)
Did you know a Cassowary is considered the world's most dangerous bird? It is native to Australia and New Guinea and the surrounding areas. It can be as tall as a human and when cornered has been know to kill people.
Did you know you can cook over an open fire using flammable materials as a pot? You can put a section of bamboo filled with liquid over hot coals and it will boil the liquid without burning the bamboo. In fact American Indians and some other tribes used to cook food using the animals stomachs as a pot by filling them with liquid and suspending them over a bed of coals.
you can boil an egg in a paper cup full of water in coals.
Yeah but I don't eat boiled eggs. :D
People also used to place hot stones in containers to make soup or stew or just to sterilize the water for drinking.
Geez Louise Howard, you don't drink beer or coffee, you don't smoke, and now we learn you don't eat boiled eggs either! ??? That also leaves out egg salad and deviled eggs too. It's a wonder you have any meat of your bones at all. :D
I found that you can only do one egg in a paper cup, but you can do 2 or 3 in a little brown sandwich bag. I often take a couple of hard boiled eggs to the mill or woods for lunch. Fit in a pocket real easy.
Yes Tom. My only bad habit is my overwhelming modesty. ;)
Okay - on to todays topic.
Did you know Orienteering is a sport involving navigation and normally is a race to find selected points using a map ad/or aerial photographs? The contestants use a map and a compass and are given map coordinates to find. The first contestant to correctly find all the selected points and return to the finish line wins. I assume GPS units are not allowed. :D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orienteering
I remember land navigation classes we had to take as a young USMC Lt and one of the instructors was the first I ever heard talk about Orienteering. They had a club there at Quantico and he was a member and advised in favor of it.
I well remember our final land Nav we were given a map, a compass and an aerial photograph. We had to find 5 map coordinates and 3 from the aerial photograph. They dropped us off on a paved road and gave us our starting grid coordinate and a list with the 8 points to find. We had to compare the map to the aerial photograph to determine the scale. We did that by finding recognizable points on both and computing the scale using the ratio of distances on the and photograph. The map which was a known distance/scale. Looking at the terrain it might be easier/faster to just run down the road or follow a creek or such.
I knew I was not good at dead reckoning (Counting your paces to determine distances) for long distances so I would shoot an azimuth line from where I was to where I wanted to go and if I did not encounter my mark where I estimated I went to another known point (A bend in a creek, a hill top, a fork in the trail, etc ) close by and shot a new azimuth and dead reckoned again from there and then when I thought I was close I stopped and hung my shirt or hat on a bush and started making circles till I found the control point and wrote the verification code down. Often it was only 5-10 yards away but it was August and the foliage was thick. Classes doing the same thing in the winter in the snow and no leaves on the trees/bushes could sometimes see their market 500-600 meters ahead plus pretty soon there were trails in the snow heading to the mark from others ahead of you. I think most of my points were within a kilometer of my last point. They told us we typically traveled about 10 miles finding the 8 points.
The biggest thing I learned from the exercise was to establish a stop point in case I overshot my mark (A creek or trail or such) then find another closer location for dead reckoning. Nobody completed the Basic School without becoming very familiar with a map and a compass.
The guys in Orienteering get better at locating other terrain features and typically find their way on the run through often very rough terrain.
A common task for a forester. Have also done a lot underwater which is a little more difficult with the water depth factor.
So by that Howard you are implying that drinking coffee, beer, smoking, and eating hard boiled eggs are all bad habits? :D ;D I'll take my vices, thank you very much. They may shorten my life, but at least I have an enjoyable ride. ;D 8) Geez, you must find it very hard to be humble, but yet you do manage it. Kudos on you! :D :)
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Now on today's subject, Orienteering is quite the sport worldwide, particularly in northern Europe where they are crazy about it, it would seem. Lots of courses and coemptions here in the USA too. Those folks don't mess around and they do those courses at running speeds. I had a good friend who just passed away last week who was a navigation nut, among other passions I found endearing. He spent years studying celestial navigation and we also brought him in as a land navigation instructor. Given the right tools, I do believe he could find a needle in a haystack.
Ron,
I never did underwater mapping. The closest I ever came was when I did my Advanced Open Water Diver's course I had to do a compass bearing from point to point. Of course the current could throw you off in that kind of work The closest I ever came to using it was once in the Red Sea south of Jeddah the water was so murky I had to use a compass bearing to find the beach. Basically the beach ran N-S so all I had to do was go East to hit it. I was not looking to hit a specific spot as distance was not that critical. (If worst came to worst I could surface and look for the coast but the surf was rough and it was easier/safer swimming underwater.)
Of course when doing land nav if you hit impassable water you'd often have to turn 90 degrees for a distance, cross the lake/stream then go 270 degrees the same amount and continue. It was not hugely accurate so you'd have to adjust based on other terrain features in the area.
I find navigation if flat land much harder than hilly/mountainous regions because there is so little difference in what you see.
Tom,
Remember - the goal is not to arrive early at the Pearly Gates in pristine condition but to come sliding up in a cloud of smoke and dust at the last minute and say "Wow! What a ride!".
I think our instructor pushing Orienteering said it was Scandinavian and maybe even said it was Norwegian in origin. The guys doing it had very large scale maps and photos IIRC but it was an excellent sport for anyone un the woods and especially military.
Orienteering is something I'd really like to have a good working knowledge of.
BB,
See if there are any clubs in your area and attend their next meeting. Good luck.
orienteering and pioneering are still taught and practiced in boy scouts. BB be sure and get good directions to the meetings. 8) We practice how many steps to known distances, reading compass, and pick way points. all of camp Alaska in February is done by compass to find each "town" and part of the points is getting to them in order.
Doc,
I thought about you this afternoon as I was driving past the Boy Scout Jamboree/Camp Headquarters on Hwy 19 between Beckley and Fayetteville. They hold international BS Jamborees there frequently.
Yes, counting your steps to learn have many paces you use to do something like walking 100 meters (Dead reckoning) is a great thing to know. However, I bet your measured courses are not on the side of a steep slope with deadfalls, briers and watercourses to cross. That is why I found I was not accurate for long distances. Yes, I could get pretty close if my waypoint was 50-70 meters ahead but me counting and trying to find a point 800-900 meters away was just not that accurate. Often the terrain features are more accurate such as looking for a hilltop or stream or such.
Did you know when looking for terrain features on a map or aerial photo you need to consider the weather conditions? When looking at a map you may see a stream but if you are there in the dry season it may just be a dip on the ground or a low marsh may be a pond or lake if it has been a wet year.
My final project in Wildlife Biology at AU we received a photo and were told to sample the land between the main road and 2 logging roads about half a mile apart with a creek as the boundary on the 4th side. We figured our survey running a line 100 meters then going 90 degrees and doing a sample every 100 meter and count the stems and ground cover and such. When we got to the next boundary we turned 90 degrees, went 100 meters and repeated. We estimated 8 such sample lines but when we hit #10 we did further investigation and found the photo was taken in January when the creek was out of its banks and we were doing our sample in July/August when the creek was well back in its banks so we had a much larger area to sample than we first thought and were told.
Do you know if a buttonbuck sheds its buttons? I was thinking about that this afternoon while watching my regular visitor under my feeder. I am confident they do but where do they go?
I read on one thread they do and it suggested asking a deer farmer. Since the buttons don't break the skin if they shed - where would they go?
I have shot antlerless deer late in the season and discovered instead of a big doe it was buck that had already shed his antlers. My son shot a buck one time in ML season and when it dropped both antlers fell off so it was ready to shed.
I have seen plenty of buttonbucks, which are normally this years fawns, and small spikes with pencil sized 3-4 inch spikes, that were normally last years fawns, but I remember shooting antlerless deer on Ft. Benning one time the day before Thanksgiving only to find it was a real roly poly little buck with 1" spikes but were nearly an inch in diameter.
Did you know that many, if not most, modern hunting scopes are variable power? A variable power scope allows you to change the magnification of the scope by simply twisting a bezel on the scope from a range of available settings. A typical scope my be a 3 to 9 power which means you can have magnification from 3 times up to 9 times the actual size. The higher power settings are typically used and real handy for sighting in your rifle and are used for long range shots with a steady rest. The lower power magnifications make it easier to find your target and are used for finding game quickly and off-hand shots.
One big advantage of the higher power magnification is you can see how steady you are actually holding your rifle by how much movement you see in the crosshairs while aiming.
Most of us have made the mistake of sighting in our rifles at 9-10 power magnification then forgetting to set the scope back to a low power setting when hunting only to have a nice game animal step out 10-20 yards in front and when we look through the scope all we see is a patch of fur instead of the whole animal.
Did you know white oak acorns have less tannic acid in them than red oak acorns and are sweeter so deer prefer to eat them first? They tend to eat the red oak acorns later in the year when more of the tannic acid has leached out - and the white oak acorns have already been eaten.
Did you know that kudzu and honeysuckle are both invasive import plants from Asia, Japan I think? The odd part is kudzu wilts and drops its leaves at the first sign of a frost while the honeysuckle is pretty much an evergreen and very cold tolerant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellbender
Did you know the largest salamander in North America is the hellbender - an aquatic salamander?
These salamanders are present in our local section of the New River and locally they are often called Mud Puppies. I have never caught one but my son and his buddies used to catch them below the Bluestone dam. I think the salamanders are harmless but they are big and they are ugly and many people seem to think they are dangerous and they not.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 17, 2023, 06:51:41 PMI think our instructor pushing Orienteering said it was Scandinavian and maybe even said it was Norwegian in origin.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 17, 2023, 04:11:04 PMThe guys in Orienteering get better at locating other terrain features and typically find their way on the run through often very rough terrain.
I don't know if orienteering is of Norwegian origin, but I can say the country is 96% "very rough terrian", and people love to hike and x-country ski. So navigating with map/compass/GPS is considered to be an important skill.
Twar,
Norway looks a lot like WV. Our Norwegian daughter, Ruth, said she felt right at home when she came as an exchange student to stay with us. The only difference here is when you get to the bottom of the mountain you will likely find a whitewater stream instead of a Fjord. You are a little further north and it gets colder there than we do.
Yes, similar indeed. You're either going uphill or downhill, lots of tunnels and no straight roads. Lots of mountains, forest and you're never too far from water. Far more small towns than cities.
Sounds like my kind of place👍
Did you know the Candy Darter is a small, endangered, bottom dwelling fish unique to a handful of WV and VA rivers and watersheds? It is very colorful and looks more like a tropical fish than what you would expect in this region of the USA.
Protecting our Native Candy Darter - Gauley River National Recreation Area (U.S. National Park Service) (https://www.nps.gov/gari/learn/nature/protecting-our-native-candy-darter.htm)
That's interesting👍 Sounds like a name you came up with yourself, Howard😁
Naah. I'd probably have named it "streaked fish bait" or "colorful sushi" and really upset them environmental folks. ::)
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 17, 2023, 04:11:04 PMDid you know Orienteering is a sport involving navigation and normally is a race to find selected points using a map ad/or aerial photographs?
Rogaining is a version of orienteering that Lara has done with her schoolmates. As opposed to following a set route past checkpoints it's a competition to see who can tick off the most checkpoints in a certain time. The team can plan any route based on the map, and knowing that the shortest distances might not be the quickest. The social grade events might only be 2 hours, but top level ones have 24 hour times, so a real endurance sport. Seems it's a thing in the US too as the World Champs have been held there a couple of time now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogaining
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 24, 2023, 07:49:19 PMid you know the Candy Darter is a small, endangered, bottom dwelling fish
Yeah, that's something that I'd expect to see lurking in the lagoon around Rarotonga.
Parallel evolution? We don't have Darters here, but the local streams have a similar size and look fish called a Bully. They occupy the same sort of ecological niche, but aren't really related. Our fish are related to the marine goby species, which would be how they reached isolated Islands like NZ. The Darters are in the freshwater Perch family.
Ours are also mostly dull coloured, with maybe a flash of red or blue to show off to potential mates. Unlike their more flashy tropical relations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobiomorphus
Always wondered about the trade off of colour vs camo for animals. Need the colours to attract a mate, but camo lowers your chances of being eaten. Maybe the Candy Darters have found that limit and that's why they are rare?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3840.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1700954406)
Do you know if the picture above is:
A. A deer scrape
B. A deer rub
C. Aussie toilet paper
D. None of the above
For better perspective here is another picture with a deer rifle for scale.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3838.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1700954601)
As an added hint here is another nearby example:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/38064/IMG_3839.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1700954687)
If you guessed A you are wrong. A deer scrape is a patch of bare earth along a well used deer trail with a low hanging limb overhead. Buck deer scrape the leaves away from the the patch which ranges from the size of a dinner plate to up to a yard in diameter. He urinates in it to leave his scent and rubs more scent from glands around his eyes on the limb above. If a doe in heat comes along she will wait at the scrape and the buck will find her there as he checks these markers regularly and often. I have seen bucks running their scrapes at a very fast trot. If you notice carefully you can see see which direction he is heading by the direction he moves the leaves out of his scrape and use this info to help set up an ambush.
If you answered B you are correct this is a deer rub. Bucks scrape the bark off small trees to clear the velvet off their antlers and also to shed excess testosterone during the rut. You can gauge the size of the bucks antlers by the size of the rub. This rub was made by a decent buck. A monster buck might be using a much larger tree. My small engine mechanic says he has one tearing up his peach tree and he said he is going to have to shoot it soon or lose the tree. Evergreen trees seem to be preferred where they are plentiful. Around here striped maple are another preferred tree for rubs. The second, smaller tree is a striped maple.
If you guessed C you have been watching too many old Crocodile Dundee movies. :D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 25, 2023, 06:37:30 PMwith a deer rifle for scale
That ain't no deer rifle, it's a Remington 760.
Close. It is actually a Remington 7600 chambered in 30-06. I think they made some upgrades in the chambering mechanism on the 760 to make the 7600.
I was thinking about that today and remembered I bought it at a KMart in Albany Ga while I was stationed there 40 years ago. I have an inexpensive 3X-9X Tasco scope on it. I think I had a different scope at one point but I can't remember what it was. I have long ago lost count of the number of deer I have killed with it.
Correction: The main differences between the 760 and 7600 seem to be mostly cosmetic with a little fancier stock checkering and engraving and such.
I have trees like that on my land.
Very common to find scrapes on my land too.
Did you know muzzle energy or muzzle velocity makes a difference in the echo from the sound of the shot? Around here in the land of hills and hollers you can hear the neighbors shooting and get a good idea of the type and size of gun they are using. A shotgun or muzzleloader makes a short flat sound with no noticeable echo. A typical deer rifle will echo and a very large caliber rifle makes a loud and sometimes double or triple echo.
In line with a sister thread today's topic is on tree stands.
Did you know hunting from an elevated stand can be very dangerous or even fatal?
I had a co-worker in the USMC who fell out of his stand exiting it at the end of the day on a family hunt over thanksgiving many years ago. He had so many broken bones and so much permanent damage he had to medically retire from the USMC.
On another hunt my wife and neighbor and I went hunting on Ft. Benning GA (I forget what the new name may be but don't get me started on that) in 1985 and a man flagged us down and took us into the woods to his BIL who had fallen out of this permanent stand in a tree. My friend and I made a stretcher from a metal ladder stand and packed him out of the woods while my wife went and called for a chopper to medivac him out. He was a retired Army Sgt Major. He had 3 broken vertebrae in his back - one was crushed. He came to visit us 7-8 months and fortunately had made a near complete recovery just wearing a fiberglass back brace for several months.
I have a friend here in WV who had the bottom of his climbing tree stand fall and he fell with it then the top fell and knocked him out and he got a concussion from that but survived. (Since he was a native of WV his whole life there was no way to tell if there was brain damage. ;))
Seriously though people do get killed or seriously injured every year hunting from elevated stands whether they be permanently built in the tree, ladder stands leaning against the tree, climbing tree stands or elevated lock on stands using a ladder stick or screw in steps. The biggest cause of such injuries is failure to use a safety strap/fall protection harness. Actually you are supposed to use the fall protection as you climb up and down from the tree. Failure to properly secure a ladder, climbing or lock on stand can allow them to fall. I don't know about the rest of you but I find every year I don't bounce was well as I used to and recovery is taking longer every time.
Other injuries/fatalities occur from bowhunters falling on their arrows or hunters pulling or lowering a loaded rifle to/from their stands and shooting themselves.
As mentioned in the other thread - be careful out there.
Stands are very dangerous. I've been up in platform, hang on stands about 3 times in my life. I decided it wasn't for me.
The safety harnesses that ship with deer stands leave a lit to be desired, and I suspect in a lot of cases will do as much damage as just falling.
There have been a couple of guys locally that fell out of stands and ended up paralyzed from the waist down.
The new safety vests and safety systems are highly recommended.
Use care and be well familiar in the use of any climbing tree stand, especially when climbing a frozen aspen tree during the late season when their grip to the tree can quickly let loose.
Since we are talking about tree stands lets start with the most simple type - a lock on stand. This is generally a simple padded seat attached to a back piece with a platform to stand on. Think of a vertical 2X4 about 2' long nailed to a 16-18 inch wide piece of plywood with a 6" wide bicycle seat nailed to the top of the 2X4. These are usually made of light weight metal like aluminum or a frame with an expanded metal for the floor/stand portion. Normally there are cable or metal strips for braces from the front sides of the floor at a 45 degree angle to the top of the "2X4". Chains, cables or ratchet straps go through the 2X4 near the top and bottom and are adjusted to wrap around the tree and tightened so the 2X4 is snug against the tree so it does not slip or rotate in use. I have seen lock on stands where a back is fastened to the tree at the desired height/location and the rest of the stand slips securely into the back. Often these stand fold up for reduced space and ease of transport.
Once installed a good safety strap/harness/fall protection system is connected to the tree when in use. Actually, such a system should be used while climbing, hanging and removing the stand.
To install a lock on stand you have to have a ladder, a climbing stick or screw in steps to climb the tree then fasten the stand to the tree. The most dangerous time IMHO is when you are entering or exiting the stand. Some stands may have a safety rail about waist height but most do not.
In some cases a lock on stand can be carried around and locked to a tree at ground level just to have a dry, comfortable and convenient place to sit while hunting.
The next tree stand I'll talk about is a ladder stand. That is basically what it is/looks like. It is a simple straight ladder with a 2-3 ft wide platform mounted horizontal at the top . The back of the stand portion has a notch in it that rests against the tree. A ratchet strap typically goes from one side of the platform around the tree to the other side and is tightened to secure the stand to the tree. Often a center brace goes from the ladder about center way tot he tree and is tied or ratcheted to the tree to keep the ladder from flexing. There will normally be angled/45* braces from the back of the platform to the ladder for extra strength and weight supporting ability.
These stands are typically about 15'-16' from the bottom to the top of the ladder so the hunter is standing about 15'-16' about ground. Many of these have a safety/shooting rail around them about waist high when seated. These help prevent falls and are used to brace against when shooting. The hunter can either sit on the stand and rest his feet on a rung of the ladder, can use a stool or such on the platform or mount a seat to the tree and keep his feet on the stand
Some of these stands can be quite heavy and 2 person models are available to allow a parent to hunt with their child/partner. Often the ladder will be in 2 sections and the stand is another section that slip inside each other or bolt on at the site to make transport easier.
To enter/exit the hunter simply climbs the ladder, tuns around and stands or sits on the platform. A safety strap/fall protection system is typically tied around the tree or a large limb/fork if one is convenient.
Have had a couple of acquaintances fall out of tree stands. They were both hurt bad. That's one of the reasons most of my hunting is in a shooting house sitting in a lawn chair (keeps me dry also). Falling out of a tree stand is one of the highest rated deer hunting injuries.
Okay, on to climbing stands. These are 2 piece stands. Both sections have a metal band or cable that connects to both sides and goes around the back side of the tree. These metal bands/cables are adjustable based on the size of the tree you are climbing.
Typically a bolt and wing nut is used on one or both sides of the band to allow the user to adjust to different size trees. Be sure to take extra/spare bolts and wing nuts in case one gets lost. Make sure the stand is certified/safe for the weight of you and your gear and inspect the cables, bands, bolts/nuts and that the welds/connections are secure each time you use it.
On the front side are spikes or teeth to grip the tree. As you push down the band/cable in the back grips the tree while the spike/teeth hold the front side. When you lift up the pressure is removed from both sides and you can lift that section while keeping your weight on the other section. The tree has to be free of limbs or big knots and must be live and sturdy. The lower section is the stand with a platform about 2 square feet and a climber has a section about a foot square and serves as the seat. You put units around the tree about 4' apart. You place your feet under a bar or straps on the larger, lower stand and with your elbows resting on the upper climber section locking it to the tree, and lift the stand portion 6-12 inches with your feet. When you lower your feet the stand locks to the tree as you stand up on it. Then you raise the upper, climber/seat unit with your hands to about chest height then bear down with your elbows locking the upper unit to the tree. When secure you raise the lower unit and repeat slowly ratcheting yourself up the tree. Proper safety protocol means you have the fall protection strap and around the tree so if the stand falls the strap keeps you from falling. Also the 2 stand units have a heavy cord, sometimes 2, tying them together so if the lower unit falls it cannot fall all the way down leaving you stranded holding on to the upper unit. You can retrieve the lower unit and resume climbing. Basically you ratchet your way up and down the tree.
When you get to the desired hunting height you secure your fall protection strap at that height then lower the upper climber/seat unit till it is about knee high above the lower unit (comfortable seating height/distance)and sit there.
For safety you need to have tied a heavy cord to your unloaded gun or bow and when securely seating and tied off, raise your weapon to you to hunt with it. Many hunters use screw in holders to hold their gun, bow, arrows or gear or tie them to a convenient limb if available.
The tree has to be sturdy and a certain size. As mentioned earlier some trees are not suitable. I think Frozen Aspen was mentioned. Thin barked trees such as cypress may not work. Never climb a dead tree as the soft bark can give way or the tree itself might be weak and fall with you tied to it. The tree has to be large enough for the rear band and front teeth to hold securely. Too small and they won't grip or could rotate letting the unit fall. Too large and you can't get the unit around the tree or secure the band around the back side and still raise the units to climb.
Most falls occur by the lower unit falling when climbing up or down the tree. I had that happen once and could not raise it so I had to bear hug the tree and shinny down and come back with another stand to climb back up and retrieve my stand.
Climbing stands are lighter and more portable than ladder stands and you can often backpack them in to new areas to use and remove at the end of the day so you don't have to leave them in the woods to possibly be stolen or vandalized. They often allow you better access to prime hunting territory. It is a great feeling to find that perfect spot and the right tree and get settled and watch a big buck walk right under your stand an hour or so later.
They are also probably the cause of must injuries and deaths from falls while hunting when they are not properly used and/or proper fall protection is not used.
BTW - understand if your stand does fall out from under and your fall protection system works properly you will be safe and unharmed but you are going to find yourself dangling above the ground and you are still going to have to either call for help, which could mean dangling a long time, or rotating yourself around and bear hugging the tree and shinny down to the ground or to wherever your stand is hung and re-position and use it to get down. This is probably not going to be easy or comfortable. If you are not strong enough or healthy enough to do this, I strongly recommend you do not use a climbing tree stand.
Also many stands damage the trees, especially with repeated heavy use, so keep that in mind.
I highly recommend. One of the most comfortable, high and safe ladder stands out there. I've got four of them from years ago.
https://millennium-outdoors.com/product/l110-21ft-single-ladder-2/ (https://millennium-outdoors.com/product/l110-21ft-single-ladder-2/)
Good looking stand but that 92 lb weight is a kick in the teeth. You're going to be pretty particular where you place it because you are not going to want to be moving it around too much.
The last tree stand I plan to discuss is the permanent built-in stand. These used to be more common and their design and safety features depended on the builder, his design and materials used. Some were as simple as a medium to wide board with a V on each end that slipped down on both sides of a fork in the tree. Some were 2 pieces of parallel framing (Think 2X4s) nailed across both, or more, sides of a fork in a tree and a platform of short boards built across them.
Another design typically used in a tall limbless tree had 2 pieces of framing nailed on both sides of a tree extending several feet and a platform of short boards nailed across these with a couple of 45* degree braces nailed from the tree to the ends of the platform. These looked kind of like a diving board nailed to a tree.
Typically the access to these stands was a series of rungs made from short, scrap boards nailed to the tree 12-16 inches apart that the climber used as a ladder then entered/exited the stand.
Some of these stands had additional safety/shooting rails nailed to the tree about waist high.
If you had a convenient tree with good, sturdy limb structure near a good feeding site or well used trail these stands are/were very effective. They normally do damage of varying degrees to the tree so they need to be carefully inspected every year to make sure the materials used (Lumber and fasteners) are still safe to use and that the tree is still healthy and safe. Addition of some burlap or camo netting can help hide the hunter's movement and make them even better. This is true of all the other stands discussed but it is hard to add camo to many of the temporary stands. A gallon milk jug or such was often left on site for a urinal. A permanent cord might be left hanging to lift your gun/bow/gear up or you may climb with it on a sling.
Many of these platforms built in large crotches were very secure and safer to use than the temporary stands previously discussed especially when good quality, rot resistant lumber and proper fasteners were used. In many cases they can be quite large and accommodate teams of hunters and are great for parent/child hunter teams. Depending on the location/features a permanent seat might be built on or moveable stool, bucket or chair might be used.
The diving board stand was always unsafe IMHO. Access/Exit was always dangerous. Another real danger was the steps built up the tree and many hunters are/were hurt or killed when those short scrap boards broke or pulled out of the tree.
These stands typically had to be built on private/authorized land and it is not practical to build them on public land where other hunters may use them and disputes over use can arise.
Fall protection should be used properly with these stands too. The case where I described us packing out a hunter with the broken back on Ft. Benning came in 1985 when he fell from a very solid, well built permanent tree stand but before he put his safety strap on he leaned against a rotten limb and it broke and he fell 15-20 feet.
The early climbing tree stands were especially hazardous, and the cause of numerous hunters near misses and falls and injuries.
1,000 dollar tree climber & 700 hang on one 😮. Lone Wolf. These are the best hang on and climbing stands hands down for years. Don't know the whole story but he doesn't carry a couple of his original climbers because of selling the company or a portion and restarting it back up.
https://www.lonewolfcustomgear.com/collections/treestands (https://www.lonewolfcustomgear.com/collections/treestands)
Wow, they get a lot of $$$ for some of them, I got some from the Iron pile at the dump that looks a little like them. There are always 3 or 4 every year, All work just a little rusty.
Still on deer stands but I'll shift from tree stands.
Did you know there are portable blinds and permanent installed blinds that are very popular?
The portable blinds are basically small camo printed pop up nylon tents with a door and windows to shoot out of. Some even look like a hay bale for use in hay fields and such. The hunter places these where he wants to hunt and when the deer gets in range he shoots it out of a window. They are lightweight and help keep the wind and rain off. I am not sure they are actually waterproof.
The permanent blinds or shooting houses are often the Cadillac of hunting. These are permanent structures (although I have "heard rumors" some hunters put them on a trailer and tow them to the site where he and his dog want to hunt ;)) normally placed in an elevated location or built up on pilings overlooking a large area such as a hay field or pasture, food plots or open range. They are typically sturdy little houses with steps or ladders, warm, waterproof, have assorted built in features for all creature comforts. Many accommodate multiple hunters. These are the kind of hunting blind a shooter would use if he were hunting with a "custom rifle" designed to shoot 1,000 yards or more. ;D The hunter sits in a comfortable chair with his heater operating while he eats his lunch and when a deer appears he slides the double insulated window open, rests his rifle on the shooting bench or sticks and dispatches it with ease.
These are custom built by the owner but some are commercially available and designed to be towed or set in place with heavy equipment. I find these are more popular with long range shooters and less so for archery hunting. The deer get used to these buildings and largely ignore them. There is often a feeder or foot plot adjacent to them to attract the deer.
I have two of these on my property. One is 6' X 6' and the floor is about 8' above ground. It overlooks the point on 2 draws, has an oak ridge 100 yards away with a 60-80 yard wide bench on the other side and is built at a natural crossing where several deer trails meet. I also have a feeder there to attract deer into bow range. Access it up a ladder with a little landing between the ladder and the shooting house. I sit in the corners and peek out the 4 windows and shoot when appropriate.
The other is 8' X 6' and built on a steep slope overlooking a wide bench where the deer feed and bed. It also has a feeder. Access is by a ramp on the upper side for easy egress. My grandkids and dog can easily get into it.
A local country/community store started making and selling shooting houses made of un-painted plywood this year that were 4' deep X 8' wide and had nice sliding windows. I assume the user places them on the edge of a field. They did not have pilings to raise them but I guess the user could add them if he can raise it. They were selling for over $1,000 each. Apparently they sold several at the start of the season.
I have thought about making some about 5' square similar to my composting toilets with pre-fabbed walls and such. Half inch live edge lumber could help keep the weight down but they would still be heavy. I may do that before next season. I thought about using vertical waste slabs but that would be too heavy. Besides, if a hunter put one in the woods he'd probably never be able to find it again. :D
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Dallas just started his second round bale blind.
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Doc,
I think they are really cool! I never thought about making them with wire for the form.
Reminds me of the show Moonshiners" where Tim Smith sawed a plug out of the end of a bale of hay by the road and stored 50-100 gallons of moonshine in it and nobody suspected a thing. Then Josh down in SC built a raised platform like a shooting house and made moonshine up in it for a while.
I do think if those of us with sawmills who hunt in hardwood forests would save our slabs and make ground blinds out of them we would be golden - if we could find them. :D
he said two guys can carry these things. I may unfortunately be volunteered for this. I recommended forks for the back of his tractor. ::) That is section of wire fence panel, and it will be covered with the straw blankets used to stop erosion along roadways under construction. a buddy gave him a whole roll.
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the first one he built.
Really well done!
I think I need to make and market one made and covered with one way mirrors. Perfect camo any time/every time. ;) :D
The only problems may be with big bucks trying to fight the one in the mirror and tearing it up or breaking the panels. ::)
Yes indeed WV. Shooting houses are extremely nice! Especially from the elements! And a safety standpoint! The self built custom insulated ones are awesome! For guys and gals that don't want to mess with that and want one of the two best out there that will last for years maintenance free because of the construction the Banks and Redneck blinds are tops. My friend in Kansas has 18 banks shooting houses 😮. He fell out of a tree stand years ago and got jacked up. Never went back to that way of hunting. On my new farm in Kansas I have a Redneck blind with the metal frame and steps going up to it I haven't hunted in yet. Not a great picture of it but it's in the red circle. I will definitely be doing a few more.
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As long as nobody fires a round at that "round bale of hay" :o
might need an orange hat on top! lol they look pretty real from a distance. yeah, or a farmer with a bale spear running into it. most around here park a truck within a 1/4 to 1/2 mile, and others drive by saying "there is a hunter, there is another". I would worry about a younger hunter not aware and using it for target practice.
Now you guys have me with visions of bow hunters coming up and placing a target on one of those hay blinds and the guys inside sliding the window open and yelling at him. The farmer with a hay spear cracked me up - but it is a real hazard.
Shooting houses seem real popular with hunting cubs a such. I have a couple buddies who are each a member of a club on the Fla/Ala line and the club has community shooting houses on pipelines such and and a procedure for members to schedule when they will use them.
most hunters have a lease, and the farmer sees and knows about the house/blind. there is always the chance.
I still have this picture in my head of somebody sighting in their rifle or bow or the farmer coming on his tractor with his hay spear and seeing a stick with white flag come out of the hay bale and start waving vigorously! :o ::) :D :D
I would put a "glue on" orange banner of some sort, visible from all 4 sides, on the blind, and probably still be nervous!
Do you know why properly placed deer blinds are so effective?
There are many reasons. An elevated stand allows the hunter a much wider, longer view so he can spot the game much further away and get ready for a well placed shot. The permanent, and many of the climbing or ladder, stands have shooting/safety rails that can be used to brace against and get a better and more stable/accurate shot.
The extra height helps keep the hunter above the normal line of sight so the animal does not pick up on his small movements as quickly. The elevation helps disburse his smell so he is not as readily detected.
As much or more than any other reason the stands allow, or sometimes force, the hunter to remain in a good spot longer. This forces the hunter to be more patient and wait rather than moving around more on the ground where the deer has the advantage of detecting him. The permanent stands allow the hunter to comfortably remain in bad weather such as rain or snow and still be dry and warm with his movements undetected. I sit in all my stands and generally take a book to read and periodically look up and around. Yes, sometimes a deer walks past while I am so distracted but since I am not bored I spend more time there in a comfortable chair or seat in the area where the deer lives and travels.
When I am in a climbing or ladder stand and more exposed I try to minimize my movements and try to keep my hands and arms in line with my body so they are harder to detect especially if the deer is in line with me. Movement is the first thing an animal or person detects.
The main disadvantage is, as discussed, they can be dangerous if not properly used. The portable ones can be heavy and awkward and time consuming to set up. The biggest disadvantage is if they happen to be in an area where there is no game on that particular day or if they are set up improperly where you can't see or get a shot at the game. If the wind shifts, too bad. You can't just easily move 50-100 yards to the other side of the trail. Deer and other game remember and if they ever bust you in a permanent stand it can be a long time before that deer returns - if ever.
Quote from: Chuck White on December 05, 2023, 08:42:07 AMI would put a "glue on" orange banner of some sort, visible from all 4 sides, on the blind, and probably still be nervous!
I guess you could put a sign up on/over it saying "This is a fake hay bale. Do not shoot or move it" and hope the deer can't read. :D
I don't think the deer would pay much attention to an orange banner on the bale blind as long as it isn't fluttering in the wind!
Chuck,
I was not worrying about the deer noticing the orange banner - I would be worried other shooters and the farmer would not pay attention to it either. whiteflag_smiley whiteflag_smiley whiteflag_smiley
This year, MN made it a law that you have to have a 12"x12" iirc patch of blaze orange visible from all sides on hunting blinds, and it's a good idea imo.
Did you know that if you are hunting, especially on the ground where the game can see you quickly, the goal is either not to be seen or not to be recognized? Not being seen means you are above, below or behind something to hide yourself and especially your movements. Not being recognized means the animal sees you but does not see you as a threat because you look like something that is harmless and is supposed to be there. Sitting against a tree may mean the deer does not see you if he is coming straight at you but from the side you may still look like a hunter with a rifle. Adding a little brush and such to help break up your outline means now you look like clump of bushes growing near a tree - which is normal.
If you have to move, do so slowly and keep your hands and arms in line with your body as much as possible so such movement is harder to detect. Any movement that is skylined against open space behind is quicker to be seen.
Using a small section of camo netting or burlap hung between a couple of bushes or field expedient poles made from limbs helps break up your outline and hides your movement and is not too heavy to carry with you or too much trouble to set up and break down.
Did you know WV Fall Fire Season is from 1 Oct through 31 December. All outdoor burning is banned from 7am to 5 pm. Of course this related to our leaf fall season. By January the leaves will pretty much be rained and snowed on and flattened down so there is no air flow to allow or encourage fires. I remember during dry years the time around Thanksgiving could have several big forest fires going throughout the state.
Many people pile up brush through the year and wait till winter when the ground is covered by snow to burn the piles.
Did you know deer will sometimes come to a predator call? That seems counter-intuitive as you'd think that would frighten them away but old experienced predator hunters tell me it is true. I don't know if they think it is a fawn in distress or why they come. I was at the end of my hunt one time and up in a climbing tree stand on the back side of my property and decided just for giggles I'd blow my predator call and see if I could coax out a coyote or such. I have always passed on shooting foxes and bobcats on my place as they don't bother anything I have. I saw an old doe on the next property over a couple hundred yards away. When I blew my dying rabbit call she picked her ears up and immediately headed my way. I was not looking for a big doe at the time but I had another rag and as much for the novelty as anything else I decided if she came on my property I'd harvest her. She did and I did.
I remember when I was a kid reading an Outdoor Life or Field and Stream article about the Burnham Brothers going to Africa and testing out their predator calls they used in the US for small predators. When they got there they found their calls did work - very well! They nearly gotten eaten by lions, leopards and such.
I think deer are just nosey, especially those old does😊
Yeah, always good to consider the size of the local predators before you go blasting on the dying rabbit call. It would be kinda hard to explain to a hungry grizzly that you were just trying to call a coyote😂
Yeah, I have heard tales of well hidden predator hunters getting jumped by bobcats, foxes, coyotes, cougars, etc. I read one article where a bear (I don't remember if it was a black or grizzly bear) came to him and the hunter started yelling at it but it kept coming anyway and I think he was in a tree and it started climbing (so it must have been a black bear) and he had to shoot it. I remember he was using a .243 but killed the bear. He reported the incident and DNR absolved him from any wrong-doing.
Quote from: barbender on December 08, 2023, 08:08:19 PM
....Yeah, always good to consider the size of the local predators before you go blasting on the dying rabbit call.......
This one made me spit beer through my nose, because you reminded me of a very funny, yet true story I had long forgotten. Bear with me here...
So my older (and only) brother, for some reason, grew up as much more the sportsman that I was in those early years. As a teenager he didn't drink or party and on the weekends but he would be out the door at oh-dark-thirty to go hunt whatever was in season, wherever it was, and he would return home hours after dark with stories of the day and sometimes a full game bag which I had to help him skin, pluck, or butcher, He was nearly 10 years my senior. He was drafted in the 60's and after his discharge he moved out to Colorado with his new wife he married during his service, he seldom came east again (different story).
But he loved CO and over the decades he tried every sporting thing a person could find, bow fishing, Elk hunting, antelope, fly fishing, gold panning, enduro racing, motocross, rattle snake wrangling, and yes, varmint calling.
He belonged to a club that just did varmint calling around the time he was working in a mine 80 miles from home doing 12 hour shifts. So one day, he is on his way home from work at around 2am and to take a break from the drive he pulls into a national forest and drives up a jeep road to try out some new things he learned at the last club meeting and maybe take a short nap. It's cold, around 10°, and very, very dark. So he pulls out his spot light and lays a .22 pistol on the seat. He is not hunting, nor does he have any intent of shooting anything, but he always kept that pistol handy, you never know, right?
So he starts calling and trying out this new trick, whatever it was, to see if it made a difference. Nothing. He waits a while and calls again. Nothing. He has his window rolled about halfway down, but the truck is off so he can hear and it's getting pretty cold in the cab. He calls again after a while and swings his spotting light around....... nothing moving. But just then BAMM! the whole world got rocked, the truck shutters a bit and my brother has no idea what is going on because it was all a blur with the big sound of something hitting the truck side, dropping the light, and the confusion of the sounds. It take a few seconds to take it all in. He just got pounded by something heavy, and he feels something brush his coat, he instinctively leans AWAY from the window, finds the light, and points it at the window where he sees a big furry arm madly sweeping around in every and any direction blindly trying to find his 'quarry'. It's a pretty big cat no doubt, but now what? He can't sit back up to reach the window crank, he'll get cut to pieces. He can't start and move the truck without getting his left foot on the clutch which means siting up more than he is 'comfortable' doing. He doesn't feel like he has a lot of time for internal debate in this situation either because rather than give up, the cat seems to be self-motivating.
So he (my brother, not the cat) works his whole body over the the passenger seat, the cat is now shoulder deep through the window and thinking he is making ground. My brother finds a long handled ice scraper under the seat and uses it to slowly, 1/4 turn at a time, get that window crank to raise the window, the cat is pushing to get the window further open, so it's not easy and the cat whacked the ice scraper a few times making his blind reaching rounds through the window but eventually my brother gains some ground and the cat loses ground and can't get his shoulder back in, eventually my brother has his paw pretty much pinched in the window. He tries letting it open enough for the cat to pull it out, but no, the cat shoves his whole paw in again. So when he got back to where he had the paw pinched, he gets back in the drivers seat and starts the truck, then gets it moving and the cat starts making different noises, so he opens the window just a bit and the cat falls off and he closes the window quick. But the cat is still chasing the truck for about 1/2 mile and finally gives up. My brother had no trouble staying awake for the rest of his ride home that morning.
I asked my brother how long this whole thing went on for and he said 'somewhere between 5 minutes and 5 years.' I also asked him if he ever tried using the 'new tricks' again and he said "yeah, I did, but never in the dark, in fact I don't really go out and call on dark nights at all anymore, doesn't seem like as much fun as it used to be.' :D
That's a great one, OG!😂😂😂 I've heard other stories similar to that, maybe not quite that exciting! It seems like once the predator goes into kill mode, their instinct overrides their natural fear of humans and they don't scare off!
Tom,
That's rich!!! I love it.
I thoughts you were fixing to tell me it was a Sasquatch! :D Did he ever figure out if it was a bobcat, Lynx (Do they have Lynx in Colorado?) or a Mountain Lion?
If he had his pistol on the seat why didn't he shoot it?
Did you know that nearly all predators will readily steal a meal from another if they get the chance and most look for such chances? Eagles often steal fish from Ospreys and Herons. Lions steal kills from leopards or hyenas and a pack of wild dogs or hyenas will steal from lions. Bears steal kills from wolves and vice versa.
That is why predator calls that mimic a dying rabbit or injured fawn attract predators. They are coming to steal the kill from whoever caught it. I am not much of a predator hunter but love listening to my friends who are and watching TV shows where knowledgeable hunters are calling them in and shooting them. I see in many cases they will use motion activated decoys that look like a hawk or fox or such fighting to hold on to a prey so this helps distract the predator the hunter is after and he can get a closer and better shot on him.
As we mentioned above and best illustrated by Tom's brother's example, be careful where you set up and make sure you can see and protect your six o'clock because small predators can be very aggressive and big dangerous and big dangerous predators like bears, cougars and wolves will come to such calls expecting an easy meal too.
And those big predators have the art of stealth down when they're coming in on something like that!
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 08, 2023, 04:19:03 PMDid you know deer will sometimes come to a predator call?
I wonder if it's actually a "smart" reaction from the deer. They hear a predator but don't know where it is, that makes it a bigger danger than one they have actually located.
A predator you can see is a predator you can avoid.
One you can't see is one that might be about to leap from the bushes and grab you.
Old Greenhorn, good story.
You're not from WV are ya? :D
My father use to drive the Old Ford tractor,1954 to The Farm to mow the fields or haul out wood.
He would often see a deer. They was curious on the sound of the tractor.
Did you know that in addition to predator calls that sound like a dying rabbit or fawn many times predators will come to a turkey call too? Many turkey hunters have set up in a hidden blind or next to a big tree and clucked, putted and purred like an old seductive hen trying to bring an aroused gobbler into range suddenly find themselves confronted with a fox, bobcat or coyote sneaking in to grab a meal. If the hunter was lucky he spotted the predator in time to shoot or shoo it away but it is not uncommon for them to be watching a gobbler or several in front and suddenly have a bobcat or fox jump on them from behind.
I don't shoot the foxes and bobcats but have had them come to me when I was calling. Of course I am not a very good turkey caller and my seductive hen may sound more like a dying hen as I notice I have also had hawks and buzzards circling overhead as I called, ::)
WV, maybe the vultures saw you not moving and were looking at you for a meal. I have had some close encounters with owls while calling predators. I was in a guys' tree stand trying to call coyotes making sounds like a puppy being killed with a turkey diaphram call once. I saw a big bird coming in and as it got closer I saw that it was a Great Horned Owl whose guidance system was locked onto my face. It came in and landed on a limb and just as quickly flew off. Horned Owls fiqure out a ruse very quickly. While still standing in the same spot, I held onto the pistol grip of my .22 Mag rifle and reached over and touched the spot where the owl landed with the muzzle of the rifle. Another time I was outside my house after dark and shine a 14 volt flashlight into the neighbors' old pasture and saw eyes. I lip sqeaked to see if it was a coyote and a Long-eared Owl swooped at my head from behind nearly hitting me,. then landed ~15' away. They hunt rodents by ear a lot. Another Long-eared flew in and overhead when I was headed to the house after calling out back; I lip sqeaked and it instinctively swooped at my head. I put my arm up to block it off and it also landed in a nearby tree and looked at me trying to fiqure out what happened. I've called in and gotten coyotes, but my interactions with owls are really cool experiences.
This is a topic that may generate some interest (one way or another) - Did you know that a popular method of hunting deer in the south is/was by using dogs? This is also done in many countries in Europe. (Did you know a Norwegian Elk is a Moose and a Norwegian Elkhound was a moose dog bred and used to find and chase moose out of heavy brush and such?)
I first grew up hunting deer this way in North Fla and S. Ala and the normal practice was one experienced hunter would place the standers on a location/stand typically along an old logging road, power line or clear cut or such where each could see a good ways. Each stander was advised where the next hunter was located and you could not leave your designated stand for safety reasons and so you did not interfere with hunters on either side.
Once all the standers were in place someone/the dog handler would take the pack of dogs and start from the other side of the place to be hunted and typically walk through the woods with the dogs till they hit a hot track or jumped a deer and hopefully they would push it past one or more of the standers who would get a shot at it. If the deer was a doe or got past the stander was often told to catch the dogs so they could be used to go make another drive somewhere else. That sounded like a good idea but in actuality have you ever tried to catch an excited, fast moving hound dog? It rarely happened.
With the folks I hunted with one man had a pack of yard dogs as everyone knew if you had a dog you didn't want to just drop it at his place. After the first drive often all we had for the next drive would be a beagle that we could catch, a bird dog who only chased deer by sight (and if he was chasing it the deer was usually running too fast to hit it anyway :D ) and his poodle Boo who never left his side anyway.
With an experienced pack of dogs often the dog handler could just drop them and they'd go hunt on their own but usually someone had to take them through the woods.
In many cases hunters preferred beagles as deer dogs as they did not push the deer as fast. A pack of Walker hounds would run a deer 2 counties away while a pack of beagles might run them in a 40 acre patch all day and you could catch them at the end of the hunt.
Often the dog handler would lay his coat down where he put the dogs out and they would come back and stay there. Where we hunted we had some experienced dogs that knew the area and often we'd get up the next morning and the whole pack would be back on the porch. We spent many nights driving the back roads stopping and calling for lost dogs.
I don't think I ever killed a deer the dogs were chasing. I missed a few fast movers but the ones I killed were just out moving because of the activity in the area.
Hunting with dogs could be very effective in moving deer out of thick, wet and heavily wooded areas where access was poor and visibility was nearly non-existent.
I think this is a dying practice due to the high cost of maintaining a pack of dogs for limited hunting periods. Also access to large tracts of land where free ranging dogs are allowed is much less common and authorized hunting areas for them is greatly reduced. Many landowners simply will not allow people to hunt with dogs on their property. Most dogs cant read ::) :D and deer often get on posted land it gets real dicey about getting your dogs back and deadly disputes have arisen over hunters climbing fences and such to get their dogs.
Hunting with dogs is typically not allowed in snow country because under the right conditions the deer break through the snow and the dogs can run on top of it and catch and kill the deer. In such cases dogs may actually be legally killed.
Hunting deer with dogs is an experience to be treasured under the right circumstances but I suspect it's day is about done in the USA and my kids and grandkids will never experience it.
Howard, you can get a pack of dogs together and head up by Southside's place. They seem to encourage running dogs over there😁
I always wondered if taking a running deer (along with the possibility of a poorly placed shot) contributed to a lot of people tasting "gamey" venison. Of course, I guess many of those deer spent hours being paraded around on the trunk of the hunting vehicle which probably didn't help either. :)
I always liked to have my deer well ran, and after the kill make sure and leave them hanging in the garage where I would idle my old diesel pickup. Premium venison!😂
If the deer was still breathing, the carbon monoxide would kill them but also make the meat look redder. some meat is packaged with CO to improve the look through the plastic.
I don't know about CO in the meat to make it redder but I know in Africa the people buying fish would always look at the gills to see how red they were which supposedly told them how fresh it was. Of course some people thump their watermelons to see how ripe they are but I could never do that either.
My neighbor to my west has a pack of Walker hounds, probably a dozen or more. When we get west winds or NW winds, especially after a rain, the pungent smell of dog crap permeates the area around our mill. A customer of ours got shot in the chest while hunting with dogs in Ocala National Forest (30/06). He lived and still runs dogs. I used to go with some friends but every time we saw a buck and the shooting started, I'd duck behind a truck. It seemed like the wild west up there.
A good friend of mine and I used to take his father-in-law and his friend hunting down in Manatee County. Neither of the old men were in good shape. Mr. Jones, the one I usually tended to, was on his second heart transplant and Mr. Thornhill weighed about 330 and was on 02. He had an old Redbone Hound and a couple of others. He put bells on their collars and would dump them out when we came across fresh sign. It seemed like most of the time, we'd dump the dogs out and we'd spend the rest of the day trying to catch them- unless it was lunchtime. At lunchtime, it was mandatory to get the camp stove out and cook something that usually was barely edible (salt with a little deer heart sprinkled on or something of the like), eat it and talk about how good it was. After that, it was time to go gather up the dogs. I do miss doing that with those old men.
I was going to wait to post to this but I will do so now. MM posted a version of the same thing a while back so we must have hunted with some of the same derelicts or their relatives. Actually a Mr. Jim from Mississippi used to come hunt with us some in S. Ala and was full of big windys and this may have been from him.
Uncle Elmer
Uncle Elmer loved to hunt but Uncle Elmer used to love to drink. He was bad to go out and get drunk while hunting and several times he messed up the trip for the others so all the hunters in the family agreed they were not going to let Uncle Elmer go with them any more. The biggest hunt of the year was Saturday after Thanksgiving and all the family and friends were gathered up to go deer hunting. Uncle Elmer showed up and when we told him he could not go because of his drinking. Uncle Elmer broke down and cried and swore he would not drink any more. He was so pitiful we finally agreed to let him go.
We went to our hunting grounds and Fred Earl was the drive master putting the standers out. He put Uncle Elmer out by the big sawdust pile which was a real good stand. Fred Earl had barely gotten out of sight when Uncle Elmer reached in his back pack and got his bottle out and started drinking. Within an hour he had nearly finished the bottle and passed out.
Tommy Ray was the dog handler that day and they jumped a big 12 point we had been after for years. He took off and right past Uncle Elmer's stand within 30 yards of him. Of course the deer got away and the dogs chased him all the way to Black Swamp and we did not get to make a second drive with them that day. Tommy Ray walked past a gallberry patch and a little buttonbuck jumped up. Tommy Ray had a tag for an antlerless deer and they were legal that week so he shot it. It was so small he did not field dress it and just threw it over his back and headed for the camp. He walked out of the woods right at Uncle Elmer's stand and several of us were there looking at him.
Tommy Ray was a real joker and he was really ticked off so he said "I'll fix his little red wagon". He reached down and pulled his skinning knife off his belt and gutted the deer. He loosened Uncle Elmer's belt and pulled his britches down and rolled the guts in his drawers and pulled Uncle Elmer's pants up and snugged his belt up good. After that we all walked to the truck and drove back to camp.
Just before sunset we looked down the road and saw someone heading our way wobbling badly and using a crooked stick as a walking cane. When he got in sight we saw it was Uncle Elmer but before anybody said a word Uncle Elmer started crying and when we asked him what was wrong. He said "Boys I'm sorry. I swear fo' God I ain't never takin' another drink!" We asked him why not and he said "Well, I been bad drunk before but this was the worst. I got so drunk I s__t all my guts out but with the good Lord's help and this crooked stick, I got them all back in!"
So you're saying he wasn't just wobbling from the liquor😂😂
Also, to the question of whether the deer being run by dogs affects the flavor of the meat, reading all of these stories I'm wondering if any deer are actually ever harvested by this method😊
Knowing how fast deer run, I'd suggest not many. Dogs work for hunting pigs, because they can run them down and corner them. But deer are evolved to be able to escape predators like wolves / coyotes etc, by outrunning them. A pack might be able to run them down eventually, but how many miles away will they be by then?
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 11, 2023, 10:54:27 AMThis is a topic that may generate some interest (one way or another) - Did you know that a popular method of hunting deer in the south is/was by using dogs? This is also done in many countries in Europe. (Did you know a Norwegian Elk is a Moose and a Norwegian Elkhound was a moose dog bred and used to find and chase moose out of heavy brush and such?)
Just adding to this,,,Moose here in Norway are almost always hunted using a (single) dog. Without an "elghund" you can walk or sit in the woods all day, all season and never see a moose, even in an area with lots of moose. Moose are hunted in much the same way you describe, but the dog is on a leash, pulling the handler along following the scent of the moose, which is not so much being chased as being "pushed" towards the line of hunters positioned up ahead.
Some do hunt by letting the dog run loose. A moose will stand its ground for a single barking dog. The hunter's challenge is to locate the bark and sneak in close enough for a shot. If the moose catches wind of the hunter, however, it will take off. This form of hunting with a loose dag has become more difficult, however, because our wolf population has grown. Wolves learn quickly that a barking dog may mean a good meal, either a moose or more likely a dog. Today, most hunting dogs wear a GPS collar. It's a sad day when you find the collar, but not the healthy dog that was wearing it.
TWAR,
I was working on the Elkem Solar project there in Kriistiansand in 2007-2008 and a local co-worker, Anderson, was a avid hunter. He and his partners were hunting and someone had invited a friend along he did not know. They jumped and shot a big moose and it ran off with his dog in hot pursuit. It could not go far before the dog bayed it. The moose was mortally wounded and could not go further but was still fighting at the dog. The moose was near where the new guy/visitor was hunting and before the rest of the team could get there he shot at the moose to finish it off and instead hit the dog and shot off both front legs and the dog had to be destroyed. Anderson said it took all he could do to keep from shooting the man who had killed his dog. I don't know if I would have been able to stop myself.
Our Norwegian daughter Ruth lives near Aurland and has at least one Elhound she has trained and it is certified with the state to track down wounded game. She has had the local law call her to come bring her dog to help them track down animals hit by cars. I think she gets a fee or a share of the meat, which she can use or sell, in those cases. I think her dog is getting some age on him and I do not know if she will try to train another.
Yes, the dogs are quite valueable and they are super important for the hunt. They are also quite vulnerable. In addition to being killed by wolves or accidentally shot, even more often, they can be charged and kicked by moose.
To hunt moose, we are required to have reasonable access to a dog in the region that is trained to track injured animals. It doesn't have to be your dog and you don't have to have it with you on the hunt, but you have to know who to call if needed. Some people, who may or may not hunt themselves, own and train tracking dogs (and as you mention, there is a certification process) and then make the dog and the tracking service available to hunters and game managers for a fee (or meat).
One of the big hazards to dogs here in the USA is common field fence. The deer easily jumps a standard 47" high field fence even with a strand or two of barbed wire on top. The dogs can usually climb it but sometimes their hind leg slips between the wire and the twist in the the dogs leg and the design of the fence means sometimes their leg slips between the wires and gets wrapped around the vertical wire. They get hung and can die there if someone does not find and rescue them in time.
Ruth had told me that hunt clubs and such either had to own or have on contract one of the certified tracking dogs to go find wounded game. I think she said to get her dog certified she had to give the Game Warden a pint or so of sheep's blood she got from the local butcher shop and he laid a trail with it. After 24 hours he took her and her dog to the start of the trail and the dog had to find the end of the trail. The trail had to be a certain length and may have so many turns in it to add to the difficulty.
Here in WV we can not use dogs to chase deer. A couple years back they made it legal to track mortally wounded game with a dog on a leash. The dog handler has to have a valid hunting license and if he is charging for his service he has to have an outfitters/guide's license. (I don't agree with the license requirement because I think a person should be able to take his pooch and go help his neighbor track down a deer if he can whether he has a license or not. I would be glad to take Sampson and go help anyone who asked. He has helped me a couple times to track mortally wounded deer.)
My wife used to train dogs for Schtzhund and for the tracking part of the certification she had to lay a trail like that and place an article at the end then go get the dog who was out of sight and the dog had to find and indicate the article.
Did you know meat and fish killed/caught by groups of hunters and fishermen were often divided by chance?
Most of the places where I hunted the meat was shared as equally as possible at the end of the hunt. I remember hunting with groups of other hunters on Camp LeJeune when I was stationed there when I was first married. We would gather and register/check in before the hunt with the designated admin guru and at the end of the hunt there were butchers in the group who would cut the deer up and put piles of meat in bins at the club built for that purpose. They tried to put a decent mess of meat in each bin. The cards for all the hunters who hunted that day were pulled. The ones who had killed a deer each got a ham (which was considered the choice cut) and their cards were set aside. Once each shooter had his ham the cards for the other hunters were shuffled and drawn. As a name was called that hunter got the meat in the next bin. It might be a ham or a backstrap or a neck or such. Once all the meat was gone the lottery was over. If every hunter had gotten a batch of meat and there were still meat in the bins, the cards were reshuffled and they started drawing again until all the meat was gone. In those cases some people got 2 batches of meat and others only one but it was fair and nobody got to pick which pile they got nor did they get left out.
With family and local hunting clubs and such it was less formal but pretty similar with the meat divided into the same number of piles as the number of hunters participating that day. Maybe each pile was numbered and each hunter reached in the hat and drew a number and that was the pile he got that day.
Fish caught by groups could be divided the same way.
If your group did it significantly differently feel free to comment.
Just a suggestion about this. I don't hunt in groups so divying up meat is a non-issue. But when people are going hunting with a group there should be a very clear policy about who gets what. Everyone in the group needs to be on the same page BEFORE the hunting commences. I took a small deer last week and my daughter put in her order for some venison knowing I can't so no. And a package for the landowner is SOP.
Good point. Clarity, fairness, transparency and understanding is always the best policy whether hunting, fishing, or sawing lumber.
I used to fish for Salmon on the Sacramento River, at the mouth of the American or Feather rivers. I'd take one, two or three others if I could convince them to get up at 4am :D
The standing rule was, it's my boat and we share whatever is caught. Most times it's only one (20-30 lbs) but we did get 3 one day.
Do you know how the deer meat is divided between the shooter and the dog owner? Neither do I.
If you are hunting as a group the division is usually pretty much as mentioned above but if the dog chases a deer past another hunter not in the group and he kills it then it can get pretty dicey. Dad used to say in that case the dog owner got half the deer. I had friends who ran deer with beagles as a family there in N. Fla and they said if someone else shot a deer over their dogs the shooter got a ham, the hide and horns and they as the dog owner got everything else. I suspect in most cases the dog owner gets nothing and probably never knows or can prove his dogs were the one chasing the deer. If the dog chases a deer on to adjoining private land and the owner shoots it then it would be hard to force him to share. In fact it is not uncommon for landowners to shoot dogs chasing deer on their property even is areas where dog hunting is legal.
As mentioned above discussing and agreeing to hunting rules and division of the meat and sharing the workload is a good idea and generally if loosely done among hunting groups but when the dogs chase the deer past someone not in the group such as an adjacent landowner, none of this take place so what do you do?
For those of you who live and are familiar with hunting deer with dogs in your area please help educate the rest of us. How is the kill divided in such cases where you are from?
Again, my situation was different. Dogs cannot be used to hunt deer in New York, though a licensed tracker with a trained dog can be used to recover a wounded deer. My dearly departed dog had a standing policy that I was expected to share some of the deer with her. And, unlike my wife, she appreciated fried liver.
Sampson sure gets his share and more and I like to leave the leg bones and such in the yard for him for several days to chew on. I leave them there till he gets all the meat off or my wife yells at me to get them out of her yard, whichever comes first. ::)
Did you know that when hunting deer with dogs the deer will generally run in a big circle to avoid leaving its home range? The size of the circle will vary with the speed of the dogs chasing it. Slow moving beagles will keep the deer in a much smaller area than a fast moving pack of Walker hounds.
Late in life my uncle gave my paternal grandfather a redbone hound puppy. Grandpa raised and took old Red with him everywhere and he became a very good deer dog. Grandpa would put Red out and he'd jump a deer and Grandpa would drive around to a spot on a dirt road or trail where he thought the deer would cross and he'd ambush it. Hunting by himself the deer usually got away from him but Grandpa did not care as long as he and Red had a good time. Often other hunters in the area would kill the deer and sometimes share the meat with him, sometimes he'd never find who had shot the deer because they'd load it and leave before he got there.
Red knew better than to chase the feral hogs that were everywhere there in Dixie County in Central Fla but sometimes he could not help himself. One day he jumped a big black hog and took it on a merry chase. Grandpa said he heard several people shoot at it as it passed them but it finally circled by him and he saw what it was and let it go. When Red got to Grandpa he saw him and quit chasing the hog and slunk up to Grandpa with his tail between his legs and they went home. Grandpa said for weeks he heard about how big this old buck was that Red had chased past other hunters in Old Town Hammock but he knew it was just a big old boar hog.
In his last year or so Red caught a bear and got the crap beat of him. Grandpa said after that when he'd take him out in the woods he'd run up to a fire blackened lighterd stump and start baying. A rattlesnake bit him and he barely survived that. Finally the heartworms killed him. I had a first cousin near there married to a taxidermist and he once told Grandpa when Red died he'd mount him for him if he liked. Grandpa told him no that Red would get a decent burial. I don't think he ever forgave my CIL for suggesting that.
I never heard this one before. :D
Ray Stevens - Deerslayer - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f4U32KlH5g)
So you know what animals do during very unusual weather conditions? I remember reading about a freak snow storm hitting South Ga and it was during hunting season. The folks down there went out and did some man drives and chased some big bucks out to standers and killed them. It had been 10-12 years since there had been enough snow to cover the ground and most deer had never even seen it so they were pretty spooky and easy to chase from their beds. Also deer are much more visible in the snow. Around here we can see a deer over 1/4 mile away in the white snow when we would walk 50' from him and not see him against the brown leaves.
Early in my marriage and USMC assignments I was going through school in NC and had a very good squirrel dog. I remember letting Bertha out in the back yard during an ice storm and she spotted a gray squirrel at the wood line at back of our yard and she gave chase. It ran up a large oak and jumped from limb to limb and could not hold on with the ice on the limb and fell right in front of Bertha and she nearly caught him - close enough she had a mouthful of tail hair before it got back up a tree. The squirrel got up tot he first fork and refused to go higher or change trees after that experience.
Howard, up here our deer got smart and roll in the snow so they are covered in it. Makes them hard to see😁
:D
We have varying deer here, this one is a little late changing back to brown for the summer. ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/2262/IMG_1476.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1240111728)
Hilltop, If you don't look at that deers' head it could pass for an Aryshire calf.
Did you know the Key Deer in the Florida keys are just scaled down Whitetail Deer? For various reasons it was beneficial for the deer on the keys to get smaller and smaller and they basically became a Pygmy Whitetail. They can successfully interbreed with normal whitetail if the opportunity arises and bear young just like an African pygmy tribes man/woman can mate and bear young with other people.
The whitetail deer in Florida were imported from Wisconsin in the 30's to establish a herd different from the pygmy whitetail.
I always thought that the key deer are a sub-species of whitetail. And they're an example of Bergmanns' rule that animals in a given species tend to be bigger as you get farther from the equator.
Never heard of Bergman's rule. If it is true how big would an elephant, giraffe, or rhino be in Alaska? ;)
There is a survival advantage to having a bulkier body in a cold climate. Less surface area compared to body mass. Stone age man seems to have killed off the Woolly Mammoths, and the 8ft tall "chickens" that used to inhabit NZ.
With the deer though, I wonder if a lighter weight animal has an advantage in thick vegetation and softer swampy ground? A bit like being a Pygmy was good in the Jungle, but being a 6'6" Masai with long legs and a fast sprint was an advantage out on the open plains?
The selection is gradual (thousands of years), but if there is an advantage to being bigger (or smaller) that gradually gets selected over time.
The reason the Moa bird was so big was that the apex predator was a freaking big eagle. Small moa got eaten, big ones survived. Kiwi birds stayed small but became nocturnal, because eagles don't hunt at night. It's suggested that the eagle and moa were actually in an "arms race", as they were MUCH bigger than a closely related eagle species from Australia. So only the biggest eagles could take down the smaller moa. Survival pressure favoured both getting bigger. That all fell apart when humans arrived ~1300AD, and basically ate the moa, which starved off the eagles as well.
Since we have a fire safety reminder in another thread I'll add to it:
Did you know many fires have been started by farmers hauling a load of hay and flipping a cigarette butt out the window while driving? The lighted cigarette butt would normally just go out in most conditions but when it lands against a very combustible haybale and with the extra O2 provided from the moving truck it would catch up and set the whole load on fire. To make it worse this creates a very hot fire and it is nearly impossible to extinguish such a fire on the road where they typically occur. Unless the farmer can get stopped and get the hay kicked off the truck and separated quickly enough the whole truck truck/trailer will be lost which is often the case.
A long long time ago I flicked a cigarette out the window while motoring down the road with a trailer load of logs. Darn thing went into the hollow butt of an ash log and it caught fire. I got some water from a wet ditch with a coffee cup and put it out. A good lesson learned and one of the many reasons I quit smoking over 47 years ago.
Sticking with fire issues:
Do you know how fire spotters locate forest fires especially out west? As I understand they have towers strategically located on various mountain tops. The spotters scan their area using high power optics and when they spot a patch of smoke they call it in and the counterpart spotter in a tower on top of another mountain looks for it too. Both spotters call in the azimuth line from their location to where they see the smoke. Since they are both on well defined locations the intersection of their azimuths is where the smoke is coming from and they send firefighters/investigators to that location to resolve the issue.
Here on the East coast fire towers are typically tall metal structures (Lighting rods?) with a long spiral staircase for access. I talked with a classmate one time who had worked all summer in one n Montana and he said his was a simple stone building about 20' tall.
A fire tower on the highest peak almost due north of my cabin. Probably 8 or 9 miles?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/PXL_20230817_173018454.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1692322499)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/PXL_20230817_173012877.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1692322464)
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Fire towers aren't manned much anymore, if at all. I don't know of any in the areas I like to explore out West that are still manned. Some you can go to and are boarded up, others are available to rent if you want to stay on the mountain😊
I think the fire spotting is done aerially now.
Here's a fire tower that you can drive to, and rent, up in the Bighorn Mountains in Wyoming, west of Buffalo-
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11286/20220801_172159.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1703094180)
This is an abandoned fire tower on Black Mountain in the Bighorns, west of Sheridan. This one is a fairly strenuous hike to get to-
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11286/20220805_112212.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1703094273)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11286/20220805_113226.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1703094217)
Obviously, the view is great from every fire tower.
There were quite a few fire towers in my area of northern MN as well. I suppose most forested regions had them. I know where the old concrete bases are for many of them, but they had all been decommissioned and dismantled before my time.
There are still a few intact ones, that are boarded up and fenced to keep people off of them. The difference between ours and the ones out West- out West they could pick a high mountain that provided a commanding view. Here, they selected the highest hill available, but that just got you above the surrounding trees. So the tower itself was usually built at least 100' tall to get a good view. So there is a steep set of stairs/ladder to get to the top.
I need to go to the lookout I pictured above and get some pictures looking back to my cabin! You can drive part way but hike the rest. Might be able to ride my ATV the remaining 3 or 4 miles.
They use satellites and heat imaging to pick up fires. Most, if not all of the manned towers are volunteers out here. They run news stories about that at the beginning of the fire season every year.
Did you know today is the Winter Solstice and the shortest day/longest night of the year?
(Yes, Tom, I know in NY all days have 24 hours but I am talking about the amount of daylight/sunlight)
From now on every day will have a little more daylight each day until the Summer solstice when the daylight peaks and starts the other direction again.
Three blonde ladies were fishing in Washington state when the Game Warden suddenly appeared. He asked them for their fishing licenses and they told him they did not need one. He told them to reel in their lines so he could check to see what kind of bait and hooks they were using. When they reeled them in he found all had a magnet on the end of their line. He decided they must be some kind of whacky environmentalists up from California so he told them they were okay and let them go.
As he got out of hearing the first lady laughed and said "We sure fooled him didn't we?" The seconded said "Yes we really put one over on him." The third blonde said "Yep, I guess he never heard of "Steelhead."
Did you know that a steelhead trout is the same species as a rainbow trout? Both are hatched in fresh water streams but the steel head goes out to sea to feed. It comes back to the freshwater stream where it hatched to spawn and unlike salmon which only make one spawning trip then die, the steelhead may make several such spawning trips in its lifetime. The steelheads get much larger than the rainbow trout apparently because of the better feed supply it gets at sea.
I don't fish for either and never knew they were the same till I heard it last night on an episode of Mountain Men Alasaka. I looked it up and verified they were the same.
Steelhead have been transplanted into the Great Lakes, where they make runs up into tributary streams to spawn. They are very, very popular sport fish.
Even when planted in lakes, rainbows will run up streams to spawn if they are available.
Most lakes in Minnesota that are planted for trout are "potholes", small spring fed lakes in the glacial topography with no inlet and not much of an outlet.
Rainbows are common as a hatchery fish, and are often the go to for "put and take" fisheries.
BB,
Since the transplanted fish in the Great Lakes are now spending their whole life in fresh water does that make them Steelhead or Rainbow trout?
They are considered steelhead, as they were originally steelhead that were transplanted and have retained the anadromous behavior. Even though steelhead are rainbows, I'm sure there are some genetic differences between them and resident high country rainbows.
Rainbows are my favorite fish to catch due to the top water action you get but it makes landing them tough as going back into the water the pressure helps push the hook out. They can easily get over 20 lbs in the right water but are usually caught in smaller sizes. The unrecognized record is a fish caught in British Columbia in the 20's in a photograph analyzed and estimated to be around 53 lbs. They typically live 4-5 years but there is a strain that lives in Kootenay lake and spawn near the town of Gerard that live 5-6 years and are known for producing large fish in that lake.
Back to the varying deer for a minute, I was looking for a picture on the computer and came across this one taken at the end of august, one deer has changed from summer to fall coat but the other has not.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18975/_DSC0051.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1703299428)
Thanks for the deer pix. I understand them changing to the dark phase as that helps them blend into the background which is a definite safety feature. I don't understand the value of the summer red coat which makes them stand out and looks like it would put them at much greater risk of predation?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/72288529367__3752BE4A-5F2B-4991-BF6C-D30E1229BFE4.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1701198725)
that red matches our brome pretty well, and you can be looking right at them and not see them unless they move.
Deer summer coats have more hairs on each square inch of skin than the winter coats. The winter hairs are hollow so they are better insulation. I wonder if those dark winter coats help a deer absorb more heat from the sun. (?)
Around here in the summer with the lush green leaves and grasses the red makes the deer stand out like a sore thumb. In the winter you can walk up and almost step on one before you see see him.
In the winter here, they stand out like a sore thumb in the snow.
Good, logical guesses as to why the colors are what they are, but have a feeling has nothing to do with "blending in" and that they have any chameleon effect to make the changes in hair color. Just my thoughts.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/12-uses-fireplace-ashes-suitable-210000481.html
Did you know fireplace ashes can be used for a number of purposes including soap making, removing odors from your fridge, polishing silver, adjusting soil ph, etc.
They also work great for cleaning the glass on the wood stove doors when making a slurry of water and the ashes.
I'll sometimes sprinkle some ashes on some snow or ice that I want gone. When the sun hits the dark ashes they absorb heat and speed up melting. I don't do it where the ashes will get tracked into the house. When sand is put on snow & ice you get the same effect. Ever see where someone threw a rock out on the ice of a frozen pond/lake and when the sun shines on it the rock will melt its' way down through the ice? I mostly like to sprinkle ashes around trees like apple or oak or other "Preffered" trees.
Good comments. I think both those uses were included in the link I posted above. I have used them in lieu of salt on ice for non-skid.
Running two woodstoves full time through the season, I have plenty. During years or much ice on the driveway or packed snow the plow doesn't peel I also use it out there just avoiding being within a dozen feet or so of any entry doors. I save a bucket under the deck during those periods just for that, but otherwise it goes in the compost pile after sitting 2 days to burn out first in a steel pail. Many fires are started by ash buckets improperly handled or dumped before they have burned out. A friend nearly lost his house from one that was placed too close to his house and rekindled and caught some trash on fire, then the siding on his house, then the deck. What a mess.
I put a little around the garden, but not a lot, the acid content is pretty high, one must be careful. Spreading in the winter gives it time to dissipate a bit.
Just be careful with those ashes when you clean out the stove folks.
I have also heard of people vacuuming the ashes and catching the vacuum cleaner on fire. Let's see - fine, highly combustible materials, hot coals and loads of O2 in a tight spot.. Now what could go wrong with that? ::)
I dump mine in a bare spot by the drive where I needed some fill. I have had dry leaves blow on top of hot ashes and smoke or briefly flare up.
Seems like I heard or read somewhere ashes are used in glass making too - maybe I dreamed it.
I started some duff on fire when spreading ashes years ago. Now I scoop some ashes out when the fire is out or burned down and just ash just inside the door of the stove. I have very, very few coals in the ashes that way and when the ashes are cold there will not be ashes becoming airborne in the house.
The lye made from the ashes was strong enough when it would float an egg. That was the handy dandy hillbilly hygrometer.
When my grandmother made soap she would use a chicken feather to check her fat/lye ratio. If it came back nekkid after dragging through the mix it was still a little "hot" and would probbly clean you right down to bleached bones. She would pass some that was close :D. If you've ever made soap, it has to season for a bit or it'll have the same effect, the fat has to work with the lye for a few months to calm it down, saponification.
Did you know several days of light to moderate rain will often bring wild turkeys out of the woods and into the fields where they especially like to scratch around the run-off areas to find worms, salamanders and maybe even a lost crawfish or two? We looked out the window this morning and spotted 3 big hens busily searching below a draw where the rain drains out of the woods.
Wife use to make homemade soap. Put your tongue on the bar of soap, if it bites you like a 9 volt battery, it was not ready.
We have mentioned it before but did you know soap makes good catfish bait? I assume it is the oil in the soap. We used to use Camay and Ivory was a back up. I always heard Octagon was good but never tried it. I saw it used on trotlines in Africa and I have seen it used on episodes of River Monsters all over the world so it is not a USA tip. The big problem with ivory was it was brittle and hard to cut. Warming it in a warm oven was supposed to soften and help it cut better but I have heard ( ::) ) you should not try to microwave it. I heard ( ::) ) it just swells up many times its original diameter in a microwave. I'd put a piece of Camay soap about 3/4" X 3/4" X 3/8" on a hook and if a fish did not get hooked or knock it off and the water was not too swift it would swell up to nearly 2" in diameter.
I assume homemade lye soap would make good fish bait. We only caught Channel and Blue Catfish on it. Flatheads will not bite it (They only prefer live bait) but that also prevents you catching undesirable "trash fish" on your lines. I've even heard of commercial catfishermen throwing a bar of soap in their fish traps/baskets.
In line with another beaver thread Did you know beavers sometimes cut down a tree which falls on to them and kills them? It is not a daily sight to see but is really not that uncommon to find a dead beaver or a beaver skeleton under an obviously beaver cut tree.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=1886.msg23189#msg23189
Did you know beaver tails have been used to make knife sheaths? I know I have seen episodes on Mountain Men where Tom Oar made them. I don't know how he prepares them. I used to read about old Mountain Men eating beaver tail but I never tried one and it only looks like skin and gristle to me.
Tried beaver tail once all fat and gristle. Have a trapper friend and his favorite meat is beaver.
Did you know the regular deer for WV ended today at 30 minutes after sunset?
For people who have unused tags they can still hunt in a special Mountaineer Heritage Hunt from 11-14 January. That is restricted to conventional bow and arrow and primitive muzzleloaders.
(I suspect the real reason for this special hunt is to encourage people to buy their hunting licenses early as our hunting and fishing licenses are good for a calendar year and many people won't start fishing till late spring or summer and, except for spring turkey hunters, won't hunt again till September or later.)
Trapper,
Thanks for beaver tail report. I could not see how it could be very good. I have eaten beaver and when properly prepared it is very good. I left the first one I ever killed and skinned in the yard overnight and my dogs ate it all. They would not eat a coon or possum or such. Then when you think about it a beaver is very clean and eats only bark and twigs and such.
Did you know beavers are monogamous and mate for life with the female beaver choosing the home site and such? If one of the pair dies the surviving beaver may take another mate.
Family Life - Gates Of The Arctic National Park & Preserve (U.S. National Park Service) (https://www.nps.gov/gaar/learn/nature/beaver-family-life.htm#:~:text=A%20beaver's%20social%20life%20centers,for%20life%20and%20are%20monogamous).
Did you know, per the reference in the last post, the beavers biggest predator is the wolf although coyotes, lynx, wolverines, etc will kill and eat an unwary beaver? Also I did not know a beaver hut had 2 exits but apparently it is to escape river otters who no doubt could kill a young beaver and could easily enter any place a beaver could go. I doubt a smart otter would attack a grown beaver or face an angry mama beaver defending her young.
Did you know that in addition to building excellent dams to hold back and raise the water level that beavers also dig extensive networks of canals to float heavy logs and keep them from being exposed on or near the surface of the water? I guess it makes sense the beaver has to get the mud from somewhere to build and patch dams and dikes and such but they apparently are very systematic in where they collect their mud from and while they are packing mud on a dam to raise the water level at the same time they are digging a canal in the desired area to keep them deeper.
The next time you see a big mud packed beaver dam or dike remember the beavers had to first dig up that mud one handful at a time, hold it tightly against their chest and swim to the site where they then place and pack the mud to do the most good to raise/hold back the water. I can't think of a harder working animal.
I am amazed every time I'm around a beaver dam.
Did you know in addition to building dams beavers will build dikes to raise the level of the water in their impoundments?
Where I used to coon hunt in N. Fla we had an old ox-bow that was dammed up by the beavers. It had a long high bank on one side that held the water back but the other side was very, very flat and allowed to water to escape/spread if it got above the banks there. The beavers built a dike nearly 1/4 of a mile long and over a foot high to hold back a huge amount of water. Remember they did this by digging and placing mud and leaves held against their chests and probably could not carry over about a cup at a time.
I repeat - beavers are the hardest working animals I know of.
Yes, but they are still a PITA.
We've been fighting them since last Spring!
Chuck,
They are only a PITA if they make their dam/pond where you don't want it. :D
They dammed up the highway run-off in a wet weather branch next to where Mom lives and she did a (losing) running battle with them for years. (My brother and I were rooting for the beavers. ;) ) They had permanent water where before it was only a periodic trickle. She'd go clean out the honeysuckle and brambles around a little bay tree or red maple she found and liked then she'd come back the next morning and find a pencil shaped stump with the tree down in the dam somewhere. My brother and I told her they just thought she was clearing a path to their food for them. And they'd walk 100 yards or so up the bank to do it sometimes. Finally the road department paid some trapper a $75/beaver bounty to come trap them out and he removed them. I guess they decided they were about to flood the 4 lane highway there. I figure another will return and resume operations one of these years.
I've seen where many times people will destroy beaver dams repeatedly, often at great expense, but not kill the beaver and end the dam re-building. Beaver haters take solice. Pelt prices are improving. And most are going to the hatter market, so some pelt damage is not a big deal.
We had Beaver move in on a Perennial stream and impounded
3/4 acre for about 10 yrs before moving on. Ate up all the Poplar and then some. About 60' across and 5' tall toward the end. Breached now from lack of maintenance
Got to watch alot of the process hiding in the bushes.
But they have a great sense of smell and would always sniff me out and
start slapping the water.
Very cool critters if you don't mind where they
flood the land.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on January 04, 2024, 11:33:34 AM
Chuck,
They are only a PITA if they make their dam/pond where you don't want it. :D
The only problem we have with them is that they keep wanting to flood the only road (ATV) we have to access a 100+ acre that we hunt on!
Chuck,
I can see where that would be a significant inconvenience. :D
Okay, for today's post:
Did you know that in the 1990's up through the early 2000's a log jam (helped by beavers in the area) developed on the Big Escambia Creek where it ran into the Conecuh/Escambia River at the Alabama/Florida line. In Alabama it is named the Conecuh River but once in Florida it changes to the Escambia River. One of the problems was the bulk of the actual log jam was in Florida but all the backwater was actually in Alabama. The rising water eventually flooded parts of Flomaton Ala right at the line and even flooded Railroad Street to the point it was about 5-6 feet under water. As a teenager I remember driving across Railroad Street when it was a foot or so under water. The log jam continued to grow and I forget how many acre feet of water were held back.
Eventually the Army Corps of Engineers got involved because Florida was not interested in removing the log jam because it did not cause them any problem. Alabama wanted the log jam cleared but it was in Florida and they did not have access. In the early/mid 2000's the COE got funding and approval and removed the log jam and the water levels returned to previous levels and Railroad Street in Flomaton was exposed again.
Did you know this time of year turkeys are separated into bachelor groups for the gobblers and older jakes while the hens and younger jakes are together in separate flocks? In a few months the Spring Gobbler/Mating season will cause the gobblers to seek out and hang out with the hens for a while.
I was returning home from town yesterday about 3:00 pm and rounded the bend and saw a couple of turkeys on the edge of my road jumping and flopping across a small creek (Pinch Creek FWIW) and looked to see if they had beards. They did and when I looked across the creek I saw 5-6 more. All had beards 6" or longer that I saw so it was a bachelor group.
I am not sure at what age a jake actually leaves the hens and joins up with the older gobblers. I assume it is at about one year old.
My Uncle told me some of the perennial creeks on the ranch he worked on in NE Wyoming/SE Montana used to run year round when there were beaver present. Lax predator control by the ranch led to the disappearance of the beaver. Now the creeks only run when it rains.
When I'm up in the mountains trout fishing, I'm always happy when I happen upon a beaver dam. They almost always provide excellent fishing.
In Minnesota, beaver are considered bad for trout streams, because the dams warm the water. Since our streams tend to be marginal temperature-wise, a beaver dam can warm the water enough to where the trout can't survive.
Pre-settlement, when the creeks were lined and shaded by the canopy of old growth timber, that probably wouldn't have been a problem. There is a river in NW Wisconsin named the Bois Brule. It is still one of the finest trout and lake run salmon/trout rivers in the Midwest, but at the time of exploration it was supposed to be full of big brook trout. Enough that it supported a commercial fishery for a time, they apparently shipped "specks" to Chicago salted in barrels out of the Brule. It was also choked with down timber and beaver dams that provided a lot more cover for trout.
I don't mean to insult anyone here and while this may be obvious to many of us this is an international forum with members all over the world and many people are not familiar with many of the animals and wildlife we are familiar with are not known by others.
So, Did you know that a turkey's beard does not grow from his chin or on his face at all? It is a long series of very thick coarse, black hair-like threads growing from the middle of his upper chest. It looks like a stiff brush in many cases. And in some cases a turkey gobbler will grow several beards. Hens sometimes even have beards like doe deer sometimes grow antlers. In those cases more often than not the female is sterile.
I was sitting here watching 3 nice gobblers out my living room window and watching their beards swinging underneath their chests when they'd bend over to pick up a juicy morsel. In fact a turkey's beard rarely grows over about a foot long as it drags the ground and wears off the tips once it reaches that length. When the turkeys stand erect the beards lay flat against their chest and it is hard to see.
Did you know that a hooked fish will often attract another fish? I have often hooked a bass and while fighting it and it comes to the surface I will see another bass trying to take the lure away from him. This is especially true with plastic worms and such where the lure slides up the line and is on the outside of the fish's mouth. The second fish will try to steal the lure from the hooked fish. It is very disappointing to hook a 2 lb bass and have it come to the surface trying to shake the lure and see and 5-7 lb bass trying to take it away from him and the hook is in the first fish's jaw instead of in the larger fish.
Keep that in mind and if you have a second rod rigged and ready to fish or another fisherman is in the boat when you hook a bass have your partner toss right over next to the hooked fish and you may hook a second fish.
WV, those Northern Pike I have described before are very attracted to hooked fish. And they ain't after the lure, either. They really like to grab on to crappies. And once they do, you can lift them right out of the water and they won't let go, as if they are saying "mine!"😂
There have been people bitten by large pike and muskies, usually water skiing. Something about the speed triggers them.
I can't remember the Northern Pike Minnesota Record, Muskie is 54 pounds I think.
Wisconsin muskie record is listed at 69 lb, 11 oz
I have had large predator fish attack hooked prey fish I had on the line.
I was crappie fishing with my son dunking minnows in treetops in our local lake and he hooked a large crappie on a limber 10' fiberglass pole. While attempting to land the fish it wrapped around a limb in the treetop where we were fishing. My son held steady pressure on it hoping it would unwrap itself as they often will do. It was flopping near the surface when suddenly a sound and swirl like a giant commode flushing occurred when a 25+ lb flathead catfish engulfed the crappie. My son gave him slack and let him swallow the crappie but when he tightened the line we had a few seconds of excitement but the inevitable result was the catfish broke free.
Reminds me of something I saw a while back on TV; maybe the River Monsters show. They showed how sharks will hang out under a fishing boat. When someone hooks a fish and tries to reel it in the shark grabs its' share and the fisherman ends up with a fish head. Some sharks swim considerable distances up freshwater rivers. A shark once was found in the Mississipi River in Illinois.
KEC,
Did you know the species of shark that frequents fresh water as you described is the bull shark and is considered one of the more dangerous sharks to man? As you noted, their system allows them a greater tolerance to swim in non-saline or low saline conditions so they are common in brackish waters and can swim long distances up freshwater streams. I think one of the things that make them so deadly is they do appear in areas people do not expect to see sharks and they will readily attack a man in the water. They apparently also come in to very shallow water along the beaches so they attack people wading in areas they don't think sharks will be.
Some friends and I were catching blacktip sharks near Egmont Key on mackerel several years ago. Two of us were catching mackerel and the other two were using the cut mackerel on 20 lb spinning gear to hook 3-5' blacktips. I was fighting a good sized blacktip that was ripping drag when all of a sudden it was different- still pulling drag but slow and it seemed heavier, then just dead weight. I reeled in what felt like a sack of feed. When I pulled the dead, bleeding blacktip out of the water, he had 16" wide bite marks on him. Everything is bait. A big bull shark is the prime suspect.
If you really want some excitement, have a 100+lb tarpon on and watch a hammerhead with a 3' of dorsal fin out of the water chasing him down and treating him like a sardine snack.
WV, yes I did know that they are Bull Sharks. I also heard that they sometimes swim up the St. Lawrence River, but I don't know how far. It just ain't safe out there ! Dang !
Did you know that barracuda are popular fish for the table in some parts of the world? I think the first one I ever ate was one I had speared in the Red Sea near Jeddah Saudi Arabia. I frequently saw them for sale in the open air markets and on the menus in local restaurants in Cameroon in West Africa. The ones I saw and ate were typically smaller one of 2-3 lbs or so. The only really big one I ever remember spearing was on a night dive in the Red Sea. I had just speared and strung another fish when I looked up and saw one that was easily 4' long. I shot it in the head with a compressed air spear pistol and the point went in several inches but not enough for the barbs to open. I remember all I could see were teeth - big very sharp teeth. I remember holding on to the spear shaft and keeping the fish pointed away from me as he swam circles around me. Finally he pulled free and disappeared. I kept expecting him to return for his revenge and take a chunk out of my leg or backside. It was not one of my smarter moves.
I do not recommend trying this but sitting here watching Swamp People on the History Channel I watched one clip where Pickle had the barrel of her rifle (.22) under the water. I could not see if she shot the alligator with the barrel under water. I can remember old outlaw fishermen talking about shooting big bluegills under water by shining a light on them to locate and freeze them in place (like gigging frogs) and sticking the barrel under the water next to them and shooting. Evidently the pressure is not as great and/or the barrels are stronger for their size. I'd bet a shotgun or high powered rifle would split the barrel if you shot it while it was under water.
I'll bet it would split or worse also, Howard!
A 22LR "most likely" wouldn't, due to the strength of the barrel and diminutive power of the cartridge compared to some of the High Powered centerfires!
Now there's a myth busters episode :D
My favorite part of Myth Busters is when they get frustrated if they can't get repeatable results, and call in the explosives expert. The episode where they were trying to break up a load of concrete they allowed to set in a mixer truck drum was classic. They were trying dynamite, and I think some C4 charges too. They all just went, "poink"inside the drum with zero effect. So they took it out to a gravel pit in a remote area and put a really big charge of C4 on it, I think they were over 1/2 mile away where they detonated it from. That basically vaporized that truck! Sent a shock wave out for miles!😂
just big kids with someone else's money. :D :D :D
Did you know that in his doctoral thesis Dr. Keith Causey, former head of the wildlife department at AU, concluded that Feral Dogs in Alabama did not totally revert to self sufficient hunting animals? First he had to define the difference between a free ranging dog which had some association with humans and a feral dog that had absolutely no contact with humans and ran at the first site of a human. As I remember he studied feral dogs in a couple of locations and one group supplemented their diet with food from a local landfill and another group supplemented their diet with birds that were killed or injured by flying into the guy wires of a tall radio tower.
I remember coming across and reading the thesis in the Journal of Wildlife Management while I was a student there at AU. I remember Dr. Causey commented how frustrating it was to identify an apparently total feral dog, and spend a lot of time and effort to trap and radio tag it then track it to its home under some redneck's front porch. (Actually I don't think he used the term "Redneck" in his thesis. :D )
Howard, are you familiar with American Dingos, also known as Carolina Wild Dogs I think? We were at an apple orchard last fall, and the owner had a unique looking, tan dog. When I asked it's breed, he told me an American Dingo. I assumed thet were an Australian Dingo that was bred in America (it looked similar), but I had to get on the Web and learn about them.
First thing I learned, these are not Australian Dingos. These dogs were apparently present in America at first European contact. So they were an existing breed/landrace of feral dogs in the American Southeast. Genetic tests have pointed towards a Southeast Asan origin (similar to Australian Dingos). These dogs bark though, which Australian Dingos do not.
BB,
Somewhere in the dim reaches of my memory I seem to have heard or read about the Carolina wild dog but I had never read up on them. They are an interesting dog and look similar to small dogs I saw in every village in Africa and in the Amazon. I still remember a pygmy toddler pouring old fireplace ashes on to a sleeping puppy in the middle of the village in Central African Republic. The dog would lazily flick an ear occasionally as the ashes tickled them. Here is the link to the Wikipedia account of the Carolina dog.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Dog
If you read any account of the American Indians you will find accounts of dogs in the villages. They were used as guard dogs and possibly hunting dogs and they were eaten. I assume they were here long before the Europeans came to America.
I checked my journal and found this entry for 23 June, 2003 regarding our trip to a Pygmy Village in Central African Village.
Each dwelling is dirt floored hut or house. There are traditional rounded pygmy huts and rectangular houses which they are learning or encouraged by other groups to build and use. Each has a small fire in front of it with blacked pots and Dutch ovens. One woman is grinding peanuts into a paste with an old wooden mortar and pestle. Her baby is crawling around in front of her and keeps placing small twigs or leaves on a skinny, flea bitten sleeping puppy who unconsciously keeps flicking them off his head and ears.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/image~366.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1705238165)
The snaggled teeth a barracuda are amazingly sharp and effective at slashing fish in half. We've had 30 lb. king mackerel cut in half at the boat by them in less than a second. This is one my youngest daughter caught several years ago. We were fishing for mangrove snapper in a pass (called an inlet on the east coast) and as she was reeling in a 1-2 lb mangrove snapper on 12 lb. test and a 1/0 hook, this barracuda ate the snapper. 9/10 times, the sharp teeth would have instantly cut the 20 leader, but this time she was able to hook the barracuda on the small 1/0 hook and get it to the boat 20-30 minutes later. There was also a strong outgoing tide she had to contend with in addition to the tenacious fish on the end of the line.
We never eat barracuda due to the danger of ciguatera poisoning. I've cut them up and used them for bait to catch Jewfish (Goliath Grouper now).
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Cavey,
Great picture and story and wonderful memories!
BTW - the ones we ate in Saudi were the smaller ones if that makes a difference and IIRC in Cameroon when they had them on the menu they called them Bar.
Howard, I always enjoy stories of your experiences from afar.
I hunted with a fella one time that ran oil exploration rigs internationally. He had some great adventures to share as well!
BB,
I can assure you that many of my experiences are far better enjoyed from a distance! ;) Many were very exciting at the time but they were also hot, dusty, sweaty, insect laden, dirty, smelly and sometimes painful.
I still remember going hunting with 8 pygmies riding in the cargo area of our SUV In The Central African Republic. They were excited to get to ride in a "Moto" and singing clapping their hands, and having a grand time. They were also unwashed and pretty ripe. We paid them one kilo of salt which they divided into 8 piles on large green leaves, each got a box of matches and we gave each a plastic whistle to use to help scare the game into the nets after they made a surround of a thick area in the jungle. After the hunt I bought 2 of their nets made from string made from the bark of a local vine. There were 4 men and 4 women. All were barefoot with only a short skirt or shorts on and no shirts or tops.
Oh I can only imagine. There is usually some pain, suffering, or at least general discomfort that goes into making good memories!
Yeah. If I had not worked overseas I would probably have never learned about Immodium. ::)
I still think it deserves the Nobel Prize for Medicine.
Is That a Rat Burrow in My Yard? | Catseye (https://www.catseyepest.com/rat-control/rat-burrow-yard/#:~:text=These%20pests%20can%20create%20burrows,are%20six%20to%20eight%20members).
Did you know that rats dig burrows? Anyone who has worked around a barn with animal feed and such probably knows this. Apparently they also make them with multiple exits so they can escape predators and such. If you've ever moved a sheet of plywood or old roofing tin or a hay bale that has sat under a barn for a while you have probably seen rats run out from under it. It is not uncommon for them to try to run up the nearest vertical object to escape and any dark opening is a potential escape path which is a reason you may not want to wear loose fitting jeans or overalls when moving stuff in the barn. ::)
When I was a kid we would sometime gather at my maternal grandparents for Sunday dinner with a bunch of similar aged cousins and Grandpa would supervise a rat-killing. He'd station us in and out of the corn crib and mule stalls and such with sticks or pipes or ax handles and such and another team would go inside and start moving the corn away from the two sides of the peeled pole corn crib. The front was open so we did not move the corn there. We'd throw the corn to the center of the crib. Periodically a rat would jump up and run a few feet and run back into the corn ahead or sometimes he'd try to escape the crib and the nearest defender would try to bash him with his club. Sometimes we'd get him but as often as not he'd escape. Occasionally we'd dig up a nest of hairless newborn rats which Grandpa would toss out in the yard and the chickens would grab them and chase each other around the yard trying to steal them from each other. When the digging cousins got to the corners, and they tried to dig out both sides at about the same speed, things really got interesting and lots of rats would run out, many back where we'd just dug, some to the outsides and some up into the loft filled with fodder. (Grandpa would strip the leaves off his corn when he harvested it. let it dry a day or two and tie it into bundles using the corn leaves for cordage so the bundles were usually and consistently about 10" diameter. These were stored in the loft on loose boards laid across the top side poles.) As the diggers turn and started towards the center on the back rats would quickly appear and die or escape as fate willed it. Grandpa had Cricket, his little Jack Russel or Rat Terrier squirrel dog running around outside and under the crib and she'd make short work of any rat foolish enough to run anywhere near her.
As the diggers were finishing movement of the corn along the back wall often the rats who congregated along the wall would often pile up and sometimes their bare, scaly, and thoroughly disgusting tails would hang down between the rough boards Grandpa had nailed across the small peeled pine pole stacked like Lincoln logs to hold the corn in. The clubber outside would see that and grab the tail and hold un till the digger inside could remove more corn to expose and bash the rat with a hammer handle or other club we usually carried. Unfortunately as often as not the skin on the rat's tail would often tear off in the holder's hand and the rat would pull free and you'd see bloody red naked tail bones when it jumped out of the corn.
Sometimes we'd find the holes they were darting into and run a garden hose down it. If the water started bubbling we'd get ready for a muddy wet rat to dart out. Sometimes after flooding a hole till it filled and no rats we'd kick over an old board and have 8-10 rats run out where they'd had just their noses above the water in an alternate exit we did not know about.
I don't remember us ever running a hose from an exhaust of a running vehicle or such like Jerry Clower described. I think we suggested gasoline a few times but adults in the group always nixxed that plan. We'd probably have had flaming rat bombs running out of the holes into every combustible surface in the area if we didn't simply blow up the corn crib.
Kids today just don't know what they are missing.
My son showed me a video the other day of somebody with a pack of terriers, Dachshunds and mixed breed dogs out catching rats at a hog pen or barn. The owner would lift the heavy feed trough or hay bale with the FEL or Hay Spear and rats would run everywhere but very few escaped the quick dogs. I have seen videos of teams doing the same thing in the big cities by shaking the trash dumpsters and such in the alleys behind popular restaurants. I heard in many cases that was illegal as it was considered cruelty to animals but the police generally turned a blind eye to them. Who'd of thunk it. ::)
With horses, chickens, and turkeys we get rats sometimes
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45188/IMG_0840~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1705344889)
. I keep traps in the barn and shop but they burrow under the chicken coop. So for fun the pictured group will come to your farm to eradicate them with their Russell's and Rat Dogs. They smoke them out and all hell cuts lose as the dogs grab them and give them a kill shake.
333 rats destroyed ratting with terriers - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_qUdwfxBVQ)
Enjoy this one!
Have any of you ever visited the Galapagos Islands? Did you know they are very tightly regulated. Groups have to enter and exit the various Islands at designated points and the guide will advise you if it will be a wet or dry landing. Wet landings mean you have to wade ashore. Dry landings have a dock. If there is any surf dry landings can be pretty hairy. Except on the main island where people live the islands are unoccupied and have designated paths that you cannot leave. Groups must be with a registered guide and a guide cannot take a group of more than 15 tourists. Guides are required to watch each other and if another guide sees one letting members of his group leave the path or other violations and the government would pull the license of the offending/mom-compliant guide.
On the trip we took we were on a boat with 7 other tourists, a guide and a crew of 5 on the boat. We would travel after dark and anchor in a secluded bay somewhere, we'd go to the island early, come back and have breakfast then go back for swim or travel to the next site. We normally visited 2 sites a day, Sometimes it was 2 separate islands and sometimes it would be 2 different locations on one of the larger islands.
My birding mentor, (now deceased), took a trip to the Galapogos. The group was watching 2 pairs of Blue-footed Boobies engaged in courtship, which is real entertainment in itself. Suddenly the two pairs swapped mates and resumed their courtship ritual. Everyone in the group of people roared laughing.
Speed dating for seabirds? ??? :D
KEC,
Did you know the Blue-Footed Booby on the Galapagos had black feet the first year or so then they turn blue and when he gets old they begin to turn purple? The BF Booby typically lives to about 15-16 y/o then dies of a broken neck because he gets cataracts on his eyes and he can't judge the depth of the water any more and dives after a fish in too shallow water and kills himself hitting the bottom.
I did not know that. What's so bad about a quick death when it's time to go, though?
Like the guy that told his wife that when he died, he wanted to die having sex. She commented that at least it would be quick.
I hope to die peacefully in my sleep - like my Uncle Will. Not yelling and screaming like the other 5 people riding in the car he was driving at the time. ::)
Did you know Ruby-Throated Hummingbirds are very territorial? The males will chase other males from the feeders but will allow all the females who come to feed as long as they want. They are also pretty loud with the thrumming of their wings and will startle you when they buzz by you.
Did you know that horses are better adapted to live in snow country than cows, sheep, goats, etc.?
Horses will paws through the snow better to find the grass underneath than other livestock. In Mongolia the herders there first run their horses through an area and they expose the grasses underneath then the follow closely with the cows, sheep, yaks, etc. They keep the horses moving slowly so they do not get to eat all the grass before the other stock gets to it.
In a severe winter the horses are the last animals to die of starvation and the cold weather.
Somewhere I once read about hunting guides/outfitters in the northern Rocky Mts. who would turn their pack horses loose to fend for themselves over the winter. They said that those horses learned to deal harshly with attacking wolves.
Did you know that 6-8 inches of snow is very helpful in keeping a short dog with bad aim from peeing on his front leg? Don't ask me how I know this. :D
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on January 18, 2024, 05:52:12 PM
Did you know Ruby-Throated Hummingbirds are very territorial? The males will chase other males from the feeders but will allow all the females who come to feed as long as they want.
I've seen this when I was feeding them.
It's fun to watch him do it.
It sort of puzzles me that at my house, only one hummer will be at the feeder at one time. Yet some people will have several at a small feeder like mine at one time. I got a photo of 6 on a small feeder in the southern Adirondacks. If you see a male flying up and down in a U shaped path he is being territorial. In heavily forested areas, Ruby-throated Hummingbirds will follow Yellowbellied Sapsuckers around and drink sap from the sapsuckers' sap wells (holes) in trees.
I have not put feeders out the last few years but used to keep 3 out at one time on our front porch. Each were about 10' apart. Each feeder would have 4-5 birds at a time - all females - feeding and 2-3 males flying around busy chasing the other males away. I know I have had 30+ hummingbirds at a time during peak feeding periods. I don't know what flowers attract them but it seems like Trumpet (cow itch) vine was one and I know Mimosa was another.
I have never got a lot of hummingbirds.
But had to put out another suet feeder for the birds. Seem like they were fighting over just one.
Did you know if you paint the end of a shotgun barrel bright red, the hummingbirds will put their beaks in it looking for nectar?
Did you know that there isn't much meat on a hummingbird drumstick? :D :D
:o :o
IMHO eating a hummingbird is like eating a possum - Times ain't got that bad (yet). ;)
Did you know in flood situations fire ants will make rafts of their bodies to protect the queen and eggs/larva? I have seen them many times in the backwater and main river course of the Escambia River in N. Fla as a child. Clumps of ants from the size of a couple of quarts to a gallon size or more would be floating down the backwater. It would have been a great time to have a can of bug spray or a cup of gas to throw on and light to watch the pests go bye-bye.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/watch-5-000-fire-ants-140002598.html
Yes, I definitely knew that, as I was wading one time and didn't notice one of the floating fire ant balls brush up to me and perform a beach head invasion up my side. That was not a good day. I was early fall teal duck hunting, was in waders, carrying a shotgun, and besides the delightful feeling of the little beasties crawling down the inside of my waders, me running to the shoreline pushing up a wake like Godzilla coming ashore at Tokyo Harbor, except I had a loaded shotgun, was the laughter of my hunting buddies at the spectacle.
Yes, I can testify to that one...
Did you know that in extreme cold situations alligators and possibly similar reptiles will brumate or basically go into a sort of suspended animation? They will stick their snouts up out of the water/ice so they can breathe and basically do nothing until the water warms up. Below is an article showing alligators in NC/SC who have been brumating this past week during our current cold spell.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/deep-freeze-grips-south-north-182911812.html
That is what I did last week but I did not know that it had a name. ::)
and I did not realize you were and alligator MM. :) smiley_deadheader_ride_alligat smiley_deadheaders_buddy smiley_deadheader alligator
https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-alligator-found-breathing-frozen-134000044.html
Here is another article from Texas about the same thing with alligators there.
Quote from: doc henderson on January 22, 2024, 06:10:37 PMI did not realize you were and alligator MM.
If it defines being completely worthless and accomplishing nothing, then I am what I is.
Did you know that in addition to the alligators "brumating" in cold weather they have serious problems in S. Fla with the green iguanas doing something similar and falling out of the trees? I would not want a 5-10 lb frozen lizard falling from 30' up on to my head. I wonder if anyone has been killed or seriously injured by them? As I understand in most cases if not picked up and captured or dispatched most of the iguanas thaw out and survive the encounter with no particularly ill effect.
we all deserve a few days like that especially when it blows, rains or freezes. Even the 80 somethings that put the rest of us to shame. :o :o :o :)
NZ has a small reptile called a Tuatara, it looks like a lizard, but isn't actually related to them. It doesn't technically hibernate, but just slows down in the cooler weather. It can take it's breathing down to about 1 breath per hour, and might not eat for 6 months. Basically it seems to live in "slow motion". They only breed about every 4 years, as it takes that long for the females to develop a clutch of eggs, but they are thought to be able to live for about 100 years. So there seems to be some advantage to taking things slow.
Lets see, Marty is 55 years old so it has been that long since I bred. That means that things are looking better for me all along. ::) ;D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuatara
QuoteWild tuatara are known to be still reproducing at about 60 years of age; "Henry", a male tuatara at Southland Museum in Invercargill, New Zealand, became a father (possibly for the first time) on 23 January 2009, at age 111, with an 80 year-old female.
My 5yo grandson likes to try to catch lizards, most of which are Cuban Anoles. During the warmer time of the years, he chases a bunch of lizards. Lately, with some cooler weather, he has been more successful, as they slow down considerably.
I flew out of Miami nine or ten years ago and I noticed a bunch of big iguanas roaming around in city parks and yards. I was tempted to go back with a spinning reel and some grapes and other fruit for iguana bait. I think that would be a hoot to catch an iguana on light tackle. On another note, I had a student several years ago that spoke of putting a mouse on a hook and sending it down a gopher tortoise hole attempting to catch a rattlesnake. I don't know if he actually did this or not.
It has been in the 40's and 50's here quite a bit in the mornings the past month. As the sun comes up, the snakes and gators are soaking up the warmth on the banks. I walked up on a 6' gator sunning by my pond last weekend.
It is no fun to snag-hook a Water Moccasin while fishing. Actually getting rid of it is the no fun part. :-\
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47671/ERMINE.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=352280)
Apologies if this has already been posted elsewhere in this thread.
OH, that's funny right there!
It made me smile and chuckle for sure. :)
Cavey,
Did you know your GS may catch some lizards/Anoles (I don't know if Cuban Anoles is the same as we had in NW Fla) by tying a fly to a fence or other likely lizard path. The lizard will bite the bug and hold on till your GS removes him.
Lynn,
The first time I ever went frog gigging I gigged a big water snake about 4-5 feet long. He was not easy to get off - and he was not even poisonous. I have never gigged another one.
Poisonous or not, a big old diamond back water snake will scare the crap out of you. In a defensive mode they can really put on a bluff. I have had them to slide out from under the boat seat and cause you to completely destroy your boat paddle.
Yes, and I have heard of several people shooting holes in the bottoms of their boats for the same reason where I grew up.
I ripped a 12" slice into my R side as a kid getting away from a big cottonmouth sliding off the creek bank where I was swimming. Turned out that vine or limb I was backed into and trying to push down was actually a shiny new (tight) barb wire fence. :-\
A little hook with a bug on it may be a fun way for him to catch some lizards. The Cuban Anoles are a little bigger than the Green Anoles. The Cubans are brown with darker brown splotches. The Green Anoles change color from brown to bright green. The green variety tend to be more arboreal than the Cubans. I sometimes watch them eat bugs at night on my bathroom window, which are attracted to the light in the bathroom.
Does anyone know why different members of the deer family are referred to using different terms? For example Moose, Elk, Caribou, etc are called Bulls Cows and calves while the smaller to midsized deer like Whitetails and Muleys are called Bucks, Does and Fawns?
Also the smaller member include the word Deer such as a Whitetail Deer or Mule Deer while the larger members are just called a Moose, an Elk, a Caribou, etc? (Okay - I understand if you just said a Mule people would think of an equine animal. :-\ )
Quote from: caveman on February 09, 2024, 05:42:59 AMThe Cuban Anoles are a little bigger than the Green Anoles. The Cubans are brown with darker brown splotches. The Green Anoles change color from brown to bright green.
I saw a green anole today and thought about this topic from a few days ago. The three pictures of the green anole are of the same lizard only minute or so apart. Notice the live oak wood that it is on. The Cuban Anole is a male.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/IMG_2573.jpeg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=352412)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/IMG_2572.jpeg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=352413)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/IMG_2571.jpeg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=352414)
Cuban Anole
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/IMG_2538.jpeg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=352415)
https://www.yahoo.com/news/charlotte-stingray-no-male-companion-232457706.html
Did you know that sometime birds, fish, reptiles and amphibians will reproduce without a mate? Mammals never do. The article is for a sting ray in the mountains in NC who is pregnant with no hubby or boyfriend.