F.F. pavilion build.

[Don P]

I used to work with a guy, didn't matter what had been done that day "Didn't get much done today but we'll give her heck tomorrow"

Looking good. Thanks for the mockup, I think it would look good, something to keep exploring.

[Bruno of NH]

Jeff
I have installed many sq. off white cedar shingles over the years.
When on a roof always used furring strips or now they have cedar breather a 3/8 thick product to lay them over.
It helps to dry out the shingle they will last much longer.
Bruno

[Jeff]

Okay, i need some instruction. Ive been informed I am being a bit selfish saying alk I care is that the shingles out last me. I have no idea how to do this on lath. Im guessing I need to purchase some, which I didnt want to do, because it probably should not be green.  I dont know how or where to apply it, and i want to know hiw I then keep 10 billion gypsy moths from invading under it and still have airflow.  I planned on getting started today.  

[Jeff]

Bruno, Ive checked everywhere around here for that mesh underlayment. No one carries it, or its a long order time.

[Don P]

Basically its just 1x2 to 1x4 material spaced the same as the exposure set to where the nails hit the laths. I think the shingles were 24's so the exposure would be 6-8" and you'll be nailing 3/4" to 1-1/2" up under the exposure.

[Jeff]

Just measured these shingles. They are 16" shingles

[Don P]

Typical exposure is length minus 1" divided by 3, or 5" for 16's.

Just more stuff, I've got Dad's old handbook out. That is giving triple coverage, typical is triple or quadruple coverage depending on pitch. When laying look down at the previous 2 courses, no breaks should line up in that triple. It is best practice to no line up a break over the cathedral arch point of the shingle below as that is the most likely splitting point in that shingle which can put you break on break if it splits later.

[Jeff]

That would put a lath every 5 inches, or twenty rows per side. 

[Ljohnsaw]

Basically its just 1x2 to 1x4 material spaced

And from what I've heard, you don't want the ends butted up to each other.  A little space like 1/2" to 1".  That way any water that does find its way under can drain.  On my old office building, we had a tile roof with wood lath up tight to each other on top of 15# felt.  After 20 years or so, started developing many leaks.  When they finally redid in metal, they found a mess.  Basic water proofing was provided by the moss growing between the tiles.  The felt had all sorts of dirt built up on the uphill side and the felt was all rotted.

Just my 2 cents, since this is a small building - use 30# felt and overlap each layer to give you at least double coverage.

[Bruno of NH]

Jeff
Home depot has 39" x 61' rolls for $139 with free shipping.
I would still put down 30lb felt.
The matting let's the shingles dry out.
Bruno
It's much faster and cheaper to use the matting.
I have done it many times with the strapping .
You also need strips of roofing felt between each row off shingles using strapping.
That's how I was taught.
Bruno 

[Ljohnsaw]

You also need strips of roofing felt between each row off shingles using strapping. That's how I was taught.

Can you explain how the layers go down?  I can't quite picture it between the felt, the strapping and the shingle where things line up and where the strapping is suppose to hit the shingles.  And how does the starter course look?

[Bruno of NH]

The starter course has 2 rows of strapping.
You lay the first course of shingles keeping your nails above the reveal .
Then snap a line at the 5" reveal . Then take a 16" rip off 30lb roofing felt a 1" above the line. Repeat over the starter course.
Then do start running the 5" reveal up the roof.
Repeating the 16" strip of felt on every course up the roof nailed into the strapping.
Some old buildings just had the strapping and no soild roof deck.
It was called skip sheathing .
The ones I did all had a roof deck with 30lb felt. Then the strapping, shingles ,16" felt strip up the roof.

[btulloh]

Really looking good. Shingle roof is going be the icing on the cake. 

I apologize for jumping ahead while you're in shingle mode, but I'm curious how that runoff from the where the two roofs meet is going to get handled. 

[Don P]

• Interlay shakes with 18" wide No. 30 ASTM Standard felt. Never interlay shingles with felt (it is already a 3-ply system) UNLESS absolutely required by local building code • Do not position the felt lower than double the exposure of the shake. If the felt does extend below this line it is commonly referred to as 'rot felting' since the felt is susceptible to deterioration from the sun's UV rays. Rot felting can also prevent proper drying of shakes and shingles, thus shortening their life. 

The spec is to interweave felt with split shakes but to not interweave with sawn shingles, just put felt on the deck like normal, or like ljohnsaw suggested, lap it just below midline for a double layer.

[Jeff]

Well, here is what im doing. Self sealing ice and snow and water barrier on the entire roof. We are in the midst of a major gypsy moth outbreak, so im not creating air spaces for them to infiltrate. Beleive me,  there would be  thousands. Shingles right on the barrier. If they start looking very weathered, thats cool, the barrier us impervious to fungus and lichen or mold, so the roof itself should last years after the shingles get weather compromised. Right or wrong, thats what is going down.

Took me awhile to get going as i had to improvise a peak at rhe ridge beam.



 

 

 

 

[Walnut Beast]

Looking good 👍👍👍

[Tom King]

Sorry about the Gypsy Moth problem.  

They engineered the life out of wooden shingle roofs, when they started specifying interlaid felt between rows.  I've never seen one of those last over 30 years.

I've seen Cypress Shingle roofs over 150 years old, that would have still been good, but the fasteners were failing.  All these were on open purlins.

I put Cedar Shakes on our roof here, when I built it in 1980.  The roof has plywood, and felt over that, with 1x4 purlins on top of the felt.  The shakes are just on top of the purlins, and are still almost as good as when I put them on.  I'll try to find a picture.

Our Cedar Shakes were put on with galvanized 1/2" crown 2" long staples.  1980 was before I ever saw stainless staples for that gun.

These days, I'm shooting stainless staples, with the drivers in the guns modified so the crown of the staples are not shot down into the surface of the wood.  It doesn't hurt a thing for the crown to be right on top of the shingle.

For the Cypress shingles, we don't make any wider than about 6".  The fasteners are shot right in the middle with one, just like the old roofs I've found.  I use one 2-1/2" 15 ga. stainless staple in the lower position, and come back with a row of 2" 16ga. stainless staples in the row of purlins above.

The $265,000 Cypress shingle roof on the Edenton Courthouse, that was put on in the '90's, has shingles starting to split.  They were hand nailed tight with two nails towards the outsides of each shingle.

I haven't seen any modern "improvements" on the old ways of installing shingles, except for the metalurgy of the fasteners.

There is a Cypress shingle page on my website.

[Tom King]

 <Here's the picture of our 40 year old Cedar Shake roof, right after I pressure washed it last Spring.  I think that was the fourth time it's been pressure washed so far.  It lives under a canopy of huge Pin Oaks, so lichens build up on it after several years.

Shingles on that gable end are 1/2" White Oak pallet lumber.

I'll try to remember to take a picture of the rake tomorrow, where the purlin extensions can be seen.

br>
 

[Don P]

Nice looking roof, I hope to still be able to when I get to that age  ;D, Happy Birthday! Looks like you rounded another decade.

[Tom King]

Here's the picture of the purlins on our Cedar Shake roof.  I forget how much I let them protrude, to get some air circulation under them, but I can't complain about how it's worked out.

When we do a Cypress shingle roof, I use the same exposure that was on the roof originally, but go to four layers.  The material cost is a small part of the overall job, and labor cost is not different to amount to anything.  That one on my website shows 7" exposure, just like the original that there are also pictures of.  The original shingles were 21" long.  I made the new ones 28".

Don, thanks.  As long as I keep having them, I'm good.  I always try to do a good days work on my Birthday, and yesterday was no exception, but I won't take more of Jeff's thread about it.


 

[Jeff]

Any suggestions on how to work on a 8/12 roof? I've got scaffold to get the first few rows, after that, no clue. Its to steep to stay on. For me.

[Don P]

Chicken ladder, the easiest way is to tie two ladders together and flop one on one side of the ridge and the other on the other side.

I've also just put a lag at each end of the ridge and drop ropes down to tie to a cross board that I stand on the edge of.

An 8/12 is right there, you can stick to it but you can't stop on it.

[Tom King]

Roof ladder.  I use them all the time.  I keep one radial arm saw set up with a dado blade, just for that purpose.  The "steps" are made for a specific roof slope, and about 30" apart.

The sides are made from a clear 5/4 decking board, ripped down the middle.  The steps fit in shallow dadoes, and are screwed through the outside.

I make the ridge hook sort of like a shepard's hook, out of plywood, so it can jump over any ridge when upside down, and turn it over to stay in place.

Wooden shingles won't stay in place on their own on a slope over 6-1/2 in 12.  The first old roof I worked on, I couldn't believe that they picked such an odd slope for it, but once we started installing the shingles, I saw exactly their reasoning.

I'll see if I can find a picture of one of my roof ladders.  You don't want it any heavier than it needs to be, and it's nice to have level "steps" to sit on.

I found a picture.  It's on top of that valley.  You can see the hooks on the top.  This is one I had made for another roof, but it worked close enough for this one.  This is why I charge double for working on roofs.  

I never leave the ground without a safety.  The trailer was parked there for a secure belay point.  The lower ladder was to install a screw eye under the soffit, to tie the next ladder to.  I would have to push on that second ladder to help get the roof ladder in place.  Rope over the ridge with a pulley is tied to a tractor on the other side of the house, and my safety line goes through that pulley.  I wouldn't even go up that first ladder without a safety.

[Tom King]

The other way is to cut triangles the slope of the roof, and fasten steel metal flashing strips to the bottom of the triangles.  Fasten them into rafters, and fasten a 2x8 on top of them to work off of.

Leave the metal strips long enough so you can lay shingles over them, and just cut off the protruding part after you finish.

I've done that many times too, but don't think I have a picture.

They sell metal brackets for that purpose, but I've never bought any, preferring to just make them like I want them.  

I screw the triangle, out of 2x material, that leaves the walkboard out away from the roof plane some, for comfortable working, to a 2x4 underneath.  The 2x4 is flat, and helps to stabilize the foot.

I cut a strip of galvanized flashing a couple of inches wide, and longer than you need it.  I put three 1-1/2" roofing tacks through the strip into the underside of the 2x4.  The strip continues up the roof for 18" or so, and is nailed into a rafter with three more of the long tacks.  That allows the bracket to be pretty loose, but once you get the 2x8 screwed to the triangle, the whole assembly is plenty sturdy.

When it comes time to cut the metal, I ruin a new utility knife blade by cutting the flashing right underneath a shingle.

If this is going to be a wooden shingle roof, I use copper strips, since the wooden shingles will last a lot longer than asphalt shingles, and the steel edge may rust, and leave streaks.  I used galvanized strips when I was putting on an asphalt roof.

[Old Greenhorn]

Yeah, that is more sophisticated ladder works than I would want to do, even when I was in the fire department.  But Tom, I have to ask, what is the deal with that chimney on the left in your reply#122? I know there is something here I am not understanding. Please learn me up. I have never seen a chimney that ends before it clears the roof. Is it even a chimney? I am perplexed.