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Author Topic: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"  (Read 9464 times)

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Offline FeltzE

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Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« on: July 21, 2003, 05:10:42 AM »
Has anyone bought or found a good source for getting the building plans and shop drawings for timber frames?

Do you have any input on the do's and don'ts for what to ask for or buy?

Were the plans complete enought to take to the zoning board and get your permits?

???

Eric

Offline Wade

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2003, 03:45:21 PM »
Eric,
I'm also searching for some plans. I have called
some of the timberframe co.'s in TF illustrated, and
they do have some standard plans for sale. They were'nt
too cheap :o. Obviously if you wanted something different
the price goes up. If you look in the recent issue of Timber Homes Illustrated they have a bunch of different floor plans
from various co.'s shown. Same for Timber Frame Homes.
 THI has more. I'm sure you could find something there.
Just depends how much you want to spend ;D>. Let me know if you come up with anything else. Thanks. Wade
If it's worth cutting down a tree for, it's worth doing right

Offline logman

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2003, 04:25:45 PM »
On the Timber Frame Business Council's site they list
some companies that you may be able to get plans and
drawings.  It's under the Members section, and then
go to Professional Associates.
             
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Offline ohsoloco

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2003, 05:08:54 PM »
I haven't talked to Goshen about these plans yet, but was wondering how hard it would be to get a building permit with these plans:

http://www.timberframemag.com/TimberFrame-InHouseDesign.htm#PlansfortheSelfBuilder

Offline logman

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2003, 08:22:13 AM »
It all depends on where you are building.  I am building my
timber frame in Salisbury,Md and I didn't have any problems
at all.  I used my own plans and I sort of expected to have
problems getting a permit but they didn't question anything.
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2003, 04:12:25 PM »
There are companies out there that will sell you plans but most are very expensive, and may not comply with your local building codes.
Here in the northeast I've found an engineer who can review and stamp plans. With his associate they can cover most of New England.
I'd be happy to pass on his name and phone number if some one wants it.
I have recently purchased a CAD program that is made to draw timber frames, and I'll be using this engineer to review and stamp my plans.
I've attempted to upload a picture but the file size was too large. I'll have to try to reduce it down to an acceptable size and upload it later.
But any way I'm not sure if I'm allow to say that I will be making custom timber frame drawings on this forum or not. But if not, I'm sorry and I'll review the rules. :P
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Offline Tom

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2003, 01:28:29 PM »

"But any way I'm not sure if I'm allow to say that I will be making custom timber frame drawings on this forum or not. But if not, I'm sorry and I'll review the rules. :P"
------------------------------------------

That's what the forum is all about, Jim.  Tell us about your activities, your interests and expertise.

If you want to sell them you have to go to the commerce section below. :D
extinct

Offline FeltzE

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2003, 03:53:51 PM »
Jim,

What program did you get? How do you like it? How difficult is it to use?

Eric

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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2003, 04:50:22 PM »
Eric:
The story is that I took a workshop threw the "Timber Framers Guild" and if you're interested in timber framing then you should, by far, join. It's only $75 a year, and the amount of information and knowledge gained each year/magazine/monthly newsletter is well worth it.
But any way, back to the workshop, it was held at the Eastern conference last November at Burlington VT. For $175 you got three days of training and then you got to take a sample version of the program home to use and try. It's made in Germany for timber framers and it draws full size beam in one mouse click, just tell it how big and how wide and how long and click it's there. Then tell it where you want the tenon and click it's there, and with the mortise already cut into the adjoining timber. Very fast.
It will out put to dxf, and dwq drawing files, it will produce stock lists and timber cut lists, machining lists (how many mortises and tenon and peg holes need to be drilled/cut), and well as the plans.
The name of the program is D-CAM put out by Dietrichs NA (NA is for North America) a division of Dietrich's AG (but I don't know what the AG stands for). Here is a link to their web site: http://www.dietrichs.com/eng/index.htm. If you go there and under reference you see a link to the D-Cam forum and Gallery of drawings. And thing there with my name on it was drawn by me and posted there. I requested the Gallery from the company and they put it in for us to use, although not many others have used it, yet.
I like it very much.
I've been learn AutoCAD threw a home study program for the last couple of years as I wanted to draw frames and get a program called timberCAD which is a front end loader for AutoCAD so you need to have autocad and know how to use it to use timberCAD. This home study program is good and I've learned a lot about CAD drawing threw this program. If you interested in this home study program, I can list the web page for that. It's from a home study program school out of Scranton Pa. but that's another story all together. But I'm willing to discuss that also.
How difficult is it to use? Well that depends on the user. If you got some basic knowledge of drafting and computers not to bad. If you know autocad or cad drawing very good. If you don't know how to operate a computer or draw a straight line, then very difficult. We had all levels of students at the workshop, from the expert autocad draftsmen to the beginner computer user, non-timber framer. Having some or a lot of knowledge of timber framing is a big plus to using this program.
I have impressed the company reps out of Canada with some of my drawings, as a beginner user, with how fast I got it and how good my drawings look. So much so that they offer me to help them sell it. So if you're interested I can snail mail you some sample cds with some movies of how you use the program to create timber frame drawings.
Just drop me a private email with your name and mailing address and I'll send you out some stuff about it. I'm waiting for my shipment of brochures to come in, but they should be here any day now.
Now the bottom line...... it's not cheap, it's not for beginners or the average home user. It's designed for timber framer and timber framing companies who want to draw their own frames in 3d and rendering of these drawings and make shop drawing and timber lists and all that stuff. So it's a big bite of the bullet at $6500.
Well that's some of the story,,,, not the whole story by this post is getting very long so I'll stop now.
Jim Rogers Sawmill
Georgetown, Ma
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Offline Greg

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2003, 08:18:49 AM »
Quote
Eric:
The story is that I took a workshop threw the "Timber Framers Guild" and if you're interested in timber framing then you should, by far, join. It's only $75 a year, and the amount of information and knowledge gained each year/magazine/monthly newsletter is well worth it.


Hey Jim,

Glad to see you found the forestry forum. Awesome place I think you'll find.

Have you heard from Peter G. lately from Boston? He reminds me alot of myself, a ton of enthusiam and ideas, but requires 48 hour days to get it anything done ;-) I remember some of you guys were going to hook up after Burlington.

Alot more going on over here than on the TFG site. I am currently debating renewing my membership.

Cheers
Greg

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2003, 08:42:21 AM »
Greg:
Peter and I have been working on several projects together since Nov.

He's been coming here to my sawmill yard to my timber framing workshops that I hold twice a month on Saturdays. We are cutting the joints for a 14'x16' shed/barn/cabin.

We're also going next week/month to a barn raising in Vershire VT. He's taking his son, and maybe staying the whole week, I'm just going for raising days the 5th and 6th.

Everyone is so busy with everything in their lives that some seldom have chance to post to the TFG forums. As that forum doesn't have a "read" counter, we never know just how many times it's been visited.

I sometimes get *pithed that the moderator of the forums over there never post anything ever! why are they the moderator if they can't even check the forum once a day/week/month.

I don't know everything about timber framing and I'm always learning, but sometimes it's a simple thing to point the questioner to the where the answer is to his question, and let him go and find it himself, but they can't seem to even find the time to do that. And I don't know where all these answers are and many posts just sit there unanswered by anyone.
I have encouraged Peter to join the guild. The amount of information that come out in monthly newsletters, quarterly magazines is worth the $75 a year.

Some simple little thing you read in these could save you hundreds if you use it and it's often the simple things that are overlooked, or assumed that you knew. But if you're new to timber framing how can you know it?

You can, and I have, read many books on the subject, but not everything is in the books, and new tips come up from time to time. As well as someone discovering some "old" way of doing things which is better than a "new" way.

I don't personaly know what your're up to with timber framing, and or which way you're going with your life, but by being a member you're learning more every month from what you've read in the mag/newsletters. So it's up to you where or not you think it's worth it to rejoin.

With me, and Peter, we feel it's worth it and we are interested in learning more, sharing what we know and have learned with others, and being part of a larger group trying help others learn about timber framing and it's history.
Oh well enough, already.
Jim
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Offline Jeff

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2003, 11:51:03 AM »
Jim, this forum could use a moderator and you seem to be experienced in the subject. If you or another would like a go at it, just say "who" :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2003, 12:29:31 PM »
Jeff B. Thanks for the offer, I'll think about it. Jim
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2003, 08:10:43 AM »
Eric:
Here is a drawing of the shed/cabin/barn we are currently cutting here at the sawmill timber frame workshops.
Jim

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Offline FeltzE

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2003, 03:00:56 PM »
Jim Looks good, I'd like to see the detail of the rafter joints or a verbal reference.

The rest of the frame looks pretty straight forward.

Eric

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2003, 04:11:20 PM »
Eric:
The rafter to plate connection is called a step lap rafter tail and seat. The seat is in the plate and the tail is on the rafter. The tail is cut this way to help shed the rain water off the side of the barn/cabin/shed.

I'll be writing a story for the timber framer guild magazine this fall showing how to layout and cut these joints.

But some time I can tell you about it.

Jim

PS I have several different photos and drawings here is one.




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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2003, 04:29:53 PM »
Here is another:


This the a copy of the actual drawing by the designer. In his drawing and when he makes these cabins/sheds/barns he cuts the tails with this profile to accent the end of the rafter. And he leaves them exposed from the underside. No fascia or soffit boards.
This plan, which I have copies of, is available to buy from me. You can use it to make this shed/cabin/barn. I have permission from the designer to sell them. This is the one plan that I mentioned to you early which is available, now.
Jim

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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2003, 11:29:37 AM »
Eric:
Well my brochures from the company came in.
This morning, while it was raining, I burned a couple of cds for you, made up a package with the cds, brochure, and letter, and had it already to go to the post office.
On the way to lunch, I started early to get there before they closed, for the weekend, I stopped at the post office.
Well the clock in the lobby said 11:55 am and they had already locked the door to the service counter. So I can't mail them out until Monday. I was upset that they locked up before the posted closing time and there were others there just as upset as me.
Well, I'll send it out Monday, on the way to lunch, and I'll get there extra early, and let them know about what happened today.
Jim
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Offline FeltzE

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2003, 07:02:08 AM »
Jim,

Incredible graphics in those last posts. Thanks! I got your email with the demo. ALSO and incredible program. I can see why they can charge what they do for it.

We havn't picked a  basic plan yet for a new house. I think it will be a combination of a large first floor and 3/4 second floor with a balcony looking into the great room. Keeping the construction as relatively simple as possible. I was considering laying the second floor joists on top of the supporting beams securing them by  either lag or bolt to the heavier beams. This would increase the resulting beam strength by reducing the cutaway portion normal to house the joist. I was considering a fairly simple rafter system of 4x6x?  which eliminates having to cut a bunch of perlins. It would however require a support midway up the rafter to allow for a split in the rafter or just stiffen the roof structure if not otherwise needed.

If the company has some basic plans I'd be interested in looking at what designs are available to purchase.

Eric

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Re: Finding Timber Frame "Blue Prints"
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2003, 06:26:53 AM »
Eric:
I'm glad you got the emails ok. Sometimes certain email programs wouldn't let you open things that look like viruses.
Placing the floor joists on top of the supporting girt and fastening them down with a log screw is a standard procedure these days. One type of screw used is called a Timlock screw. These are very long and are usually used to hold panels to frames, but can be used to hold joists to girders.
The rafter system you've described is called common rafters, it's a traditional rafter system. A mid way up the rafter support system would be a prinicpal purlin system, or a purlin plate. Also a traditional support system for two piece rafters.
The guild sells a book of traditional joints by Jack Sobon for $10. You should get this book if you're going to do any type of design work, it has lots of ideas and methods of joining timbers in it. Some more complex than others.
Buy the way, the company doesn't sell plans, just software to draw them.
Jim
here is a shot of one drawing from Jack's book:



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