Trees for Windbreaks?

[kwendt]

Part of the property fronts a rural route (road). We're up on a ridge, and the prevailing wind is from the west. Therefore, we're getting a lot of wind across the top part of the property.

This is in Northern Maine, so we have road salt galore, big snow banks, etc. The powerline (on poles) also runs along my property. See picture attached. We are the farm on the east side of the road.   

  

Soil is well to excessively well-drained, pH of 5.3 to 5.6, Thorndike shaly silt loam. Along the roadway is the highest frontage of land, the fields gently slope downward heading east.

What trees would make a good windbreak along the road edge of that west field? (from the buildings...heading south to the property corner) Obviously, not shallow rooted ones, salt or pollution intolerant, or anything over... say... 15' high (cause of the powerlines). (Mods feel free to move if this is posted in the wrong spot.)

[John Mc]

Interesting question. I know there are now American Elm strains available that are resistant to Dutch Elm disease. They are fairly fast growing, and very salt tolerant (there's a reason so many towns in the US have an "Elm Street" - the trees would take the abuse of salt, exhaust, etc. At least until Dutch Elm Disease came along.)

They make great shade trees, but probably not as effective as a windbreak (at least in the winter) as some sort of evergreen.

John Mc

[mesquite buckeye]

At 15 feet max you should be looking for big shrubs rather than trees. Most all the trees will exceed this height all too soon.

I'm thinking wild plum if that will grow there. It would be nice if the windbreak were native, but there are lots of landscape type alternatives.

[John Mc]

How do wild plum (or other fruit trees) hold up to road salt?

A lot of towns around here have started to use brine instead of (or in addition to) their usual sand/rock salt mix.  I don't know how brine is on trees, but it wreaks havoc on cars - rusts them out much more quickly than the rock salt.

[snowstorm]

just dont plant to close to a road or driveway. they will act like a snow fence and all the wind driven snow will land in the road

[Clark]

I would first check with the power company and see if you can plant anything under the lines. And if you do plant something appropriately sized, are they going to mow it down?

I agree with mesquite, you're looking for a large shrub and not a small tree.  My inklings at this point lean towards a yew or juniper.  Creeping juniper (Juniperus horizontalis) has a ton of cultivars, I'm sure there is one that would fit your situation well. I would also check out Canadian yew. If you can keep the deer off it and find the right variety I think it could work well, too.

Clark

[Ron Scott]

Check with your local conservation district forester and other farms in the area as to what has been a good windbreak vegetation species for your area. Lombardy poplar works well in many places.

[OntarioAl]

kwendt
You could consider caragana It is used on the prairies for windbreaks.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex986?opendocument
My thoughts
Al

[beenthere]

Some states consider it invasive... so would be careful with the siberian peabush.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/invasives/terrestrialplants/woody/siberianpeashrub.html

[Chuck White]

In years past, the Russian Olive was used as windbreaks and the fruit was food for the critters!

[GAB]

If my memory serves me correctly I thought someone once told me that yew was poisonous to some domesticated animals.  Can anyone comment on that?
Gerald

[snowstorm]

just plant some fir trees. once they get up in size you have christmass trees and you can pick one every year for a long time

[pineywoods]

I could send ya some chinese privet. Just ask WDH  :

[Corley5]

Blue spruce.

[SwampDonkey]

Northern white cedar. Grows slow, thick, and no need to shape. My cousin planted a row along his frontage on his Christmas tree farm. You probably have no real deer troubles to bother the  cedar too bad. I know around my farm place there is never a deer track in winter. Down here in Woodstock the only deer is in town because people illegally feed them, thus they eat cedar in the yard on the way through. There is also a native juniper that could used that doesn't grow real tall. But traditionally, rows of spruce were used in these parts. If your middle aged, I would not worry about wind on the spruce, they won't get big enough. I have seen yard spruce take some strong wind. Fir is bad for breaking off at the stem, even young healthy ones 20 feet tall with chalk white wood inside. Brittle stuff, worse when froze.

[Phorester]

Two problems I see; underneath a power line and maximum height of 15 feet.

As CLARK said, first check with the power company to see if or what they will allow underneath their lines.  If it was me, to forestall any future problems with the power line decades down the road I'd see if I could locate my windbreak one side or the other of the power line, not underneath it.  That way you could also plant trees that will get taller than your 15 foot max under the power line.

Second, 15 foot maximum height means either low growing shrubs or dwarf trees. I've seen some people plant trees that grow taller than that, thinking that they can keep them pruned to that height.  They are setting themselves up for pruning the rest of their lives (how can you prune 15 feet off the ground anyway - not very easily), and they are setting the trees up to die.  Conifers are very terminally dominant.  Removing the terminal will greatly reduce their health and vigor.

For an effective windbreak all year year long, you need an evergreen.  I would think that the deciduous trees mentioned in previous posts means that you will have no windbreak in the winter.  Here in Virginia, for a low growing evergreen windbreak, I recommend either mountain laurel or rhododendron. They'll get 20 to 25 feet tall in the open. If those are native to your area, I'd consider those, or another native low-growing evergreen shrub in your locality.

For a truly effective windbreak, I recommend at least three rows of trees, staggered in spacing between rows like checkers on a checkerboard.  I also recommend a different tree species in each row, or alternated within a row so if an insect or disease attacks one species, you will not lose the entire windbreak.  I don't mean 3 different pines or 3 different firs.  I mean a spruce, a fir, and a pine.  3 different species.

[SwampDonkey]

I know farmers like to farm every inch of land and like my father, never let a bush or sapling creep out in the field. But there are trade offs. How much land is lost with a row of trees offset from the lines? Short shrubs in front of a back drop of a large open acreage will not do much for wind. Trees in summer will actually create a breeze. When you can stand out in the middle of the field and feel nothing, sit in under a hedge of trees and there is a nice breeze on a 90 degree day due to convection.

[kwendt]

Good discussion guys... Let's see...
1. I have a bunch of saplings I could transplant -- fir, spruce, apple, yellow birch, and white pine. The back 8 acre field is overgrown about 75%... So I have plenty of trees to choose from. Availability is not a problem, lol!

2. Great idea... I will absolutely contact Emera Energy about planting under and by the poles. Right now there are some speckled alder growing up around the poles like brushy bushes. Out those come. And I'll certainly visit around to see what others are using, if anything.

3. If I've done the math right, figuring in the slope, grade, wind direction and strength... 15' heights will protect that front field adequately if I were to plant it in high bush northern blueberries. It's a small field and I'm thinking of converting it to blueberries = the reason for a windbreak.

4. thank you for the spruce versus fir description and note on convection, @SwampDonkey , @Phorester thanks for the windbreak with staggered trees note. I saw that also in my Woodlot management text. Side note: As far back as 1940 pictures, there were no trees or bushes on the west (along the road) boundary. The fields were used only for potatoes, pasture, hay, peas, and maybe corn. Nothing that really needed a windbreak.

I was originally thinking... Small bushy trees that had persistent berries for the birds in winter. Wildlife forage for birds only, not deer... I don't want to encourage deer to come across the whole farm and forage right by the road. (Right now the deer yard up in the far back, lower slope, wet area...) But as someone else pointed out... Most of those berry bush trees are poisonous? . Would love to use small crab apples...the wildlife kind... Pretty in flower, and persistent fruit for birds into January... But I don't think they would survive winters with that ridge line wind for long.

All great thoughts everyone... I'll be sure to ask our forester too... Once I decide on one. Seems like out of the 10 or so Aroostook County Foresters... None are on FF. 😳 😥 😳 so obviously, I'll need to encourage them to join up!

[SwampDonkey]

Wild birds can eat a lot of bush berries that we can't. They can eat red berried elder or mountain ash, but not us. The birds gorge on them. They eat dogwoods berries to. Blueberries are pretty hardy, but it all comes down to where the bushes come from. When you move plants north they do to well. And too far south, it gets too hot for some plants as well.

[kwendt]

Did some more digging. Can't use balsam fir or cedar, they are hosts for diseases of berries and pome fruits. The north border I've got trees,, I'll thin them down to eastern White Pine or mix pine and Spruce.


Anybody try cypress that far north? Not bald cypress... The short Gold Thread Cypress Chamaecyparis pisifera "Filifera Aurea'? I found it in Musser Forest catalog if you want to look it up (I am totally not affiliated with them or any other company).

The west side boundary is all along the road. The cypress would be pretty in a mass line. No berries for deer to want... So they'll stay away from the road. And I don't believe it's poisonous so I don't have to worry so much that visitors to the farm will eat them. They are decidiuos though... Would they make a Windbreak? Zone 3, full sun.

Or Northern Bayberry? Harvest the berries for scented products. Semi evergreen (means what?) and I don't know if the berries are poison or if deer would be attracted to them. Wet? Or Dry?

[SwampDonkey]

Northern white cedar is not a host to apple rust, that's red cedar (we call a juniper up here). Balsam fir is not a carrier of fruit disease that I'm aware of. It's planted on 1000's or acres of farmland up here for Christmas trees.

[kwendt]

Northern white cedar is not a host to apple rust, that's red cedar (we call a juniper up here). Balsam fir is not a carrier of fruit disease that I'm aware of. It's planted on 1000's or acres of farmland up here for Christmas trees.

SD, truly? That is awesome! The Cedar thing. Everyone just says no cedar..... Period.  I love this forum!

Blueberry bushes.... I'm told by the UMaine extension people... Will need an evergreen windbreak on the West and North sides, and it can't be Balsam cause it hosts something. First I'd heard of that. I'll go paw through my notes... Find it and report back.

Okay... UMaine says that balsam fir 'exchanges diseases with blueberries, particularly Witches Broom'. I thought WB was a plant ... So now I'm looking that up.

[SwampDonkey]

It's a obligate hemiparasitic plant called mistletoe that infects branches. But it's not prolific enough to worry about. I have only seen one broom on 50 acres of fir trees. It can be trimmed away and burned when pruning the bushes. If it were a problem blueberries would never have a chance. The forest up here is 30% + percent fir at ground level and canopy level.

[4x4American]

I didn't read through this thread, but around here Norway Spruces work well for windrows.

[Ron Scott]

They also work well here.

[SwampDonkey]

Norways are pretty tough, but we have lots of natural spruce to. You leave a field alone around here and spruce and aspen take over. ;D

[Woodhauler]

My guess is if he plants them under the power lines they won't live long!!! The state still sprays the roadsides to kill brush and thepower company will cut them as soon as they see them. If they are under the power lines its not your property anyhow. Measure the distance from the center of the road that the road right of vway is then you can plant them.

[kwendt]

My guess is if he plants them under the power lines they won't live long!!! The state still sprays the roadsides to kill brush and thepower company will cut them as soon as they see them. If they are under the power lines its not your property anyhow. Measure the distance from the center of the road that the road right of vway is then you can plant them.

Good point, I'll ask the surveyor who is doing our survey... About that.

[kwendt]

Well, I got a lot of spruce and a lot of fir. Mostly white spruce, as it smells ghastly. Lol. SD, up to what size spruce will likely survive transplanting up here? I have some that are 6' to 8' in my fields that have to go. Several hundred. And smaller too. Yes, and aspen.... Lol. I could stagger plant the sizes, later cut the big ones, leave younger ones, plant little ones... Continuous windbreak..

[thecfarm]

Got a good size backhoe? One of my friends had really good luck using one.

[SwampDonkey]

If hand digging, I never transplant bigger than 3 foot spruce and just as soon as the ground is soft before bud break. I usually have 99% survival. I transplanted some wild ones in a spot on my woodlot that I dug in the road ditch. It was taken over by bracken fern, and the trees were 3 footers I put in there. They all survived. I put white pine in with them, the rabbits and moose have destroyed them. :D Bracken are hard on trees and live forever unless shaded out.

[kwendt]

Got a good size backhoe? One of my friends had really good luck using one.

No, but my AMISH Nbr does! It just sits there... I'm gonna ask him if we can 'store it' at my place... Since he's not using it!  8).

[Warped]

Met a guy from Pa. who bought and old Christmas tree farm my way for hunting and told me to take what I wanted. I grabbed around forty white spruce,  a few scotch pines and whatever blue spruce I could find. The BS certainly don't seed like the others, only got two or three. There were more WS seedlings and SP than I could lift with a shovel in a life time. The tallest I could lift by hand were around 5'.
    I didn't want to be greedy and take too many even though he said have at it, he wanted them all gone. Went by the next spring and he had rented a hoe and dozer and leveled the place in a day (retired equipment operator). I couldn't believe it! For a few years a few of us would drop 30' BS and take the top 6' for Christmas, and it always broke my heart. Not anymore, nice beautiful rows all gone!
Anyways, I planted them in two staggered rows 72" inches apart (54" mowing deck) for screening just inside the power lines on state road. Excellent survival rate and NY uses loads of salt. If they interfere with power lines they will just trim them back at no cost to the homeowner. They do it all the time.
Stake'em up good and you should be good to go, but they do grow slow.........

[Warped]

And by lift I mean dig by hand for transplanting. They say only transplant in months with an "R". I did it all year since the price was right and mot everyone survived and are growing nicely.
Also weeping Canadian hemlock make a nice faster growing screen but are an ornamental so may be cost prohibitive.

[kwendt]

And by lift I mean dig by hand for transplanting. They say only transplant in months with an "R". I did it all year since the price was right and mot everyone survived and are growing nicely.

Warped, what hardiness zone are you? And when, in general, is your last frost date? Ours is 4a, last frost date around June something -  gotta check.

[Warped]

Trying to answer

[Warped]

Yikes, thought 4 but had to double check to be sure.....losing my mind.
4/5 depending on map as I'm right on the border.
TBH, I'm not sure about frost date, have to check. Well, thinking about it, it must be around late may. We don't plant annuals until memorial day or so. Often Home Chepot will have to discount petunias e.g. because they got bit a little. I thought June was pretty late, hmmmm, appears it may be similar here in northern New York.

Kept getting an error for nearly an hour.....

[kwendt]

Yes, I kept getting an 'error' too... no worries. Jeff is up to something, I bet <grin> jk

I DID however check with Emera Power company up here... :

,quote from Emera> We adhere to ISA, International Society of Arboriculture and ANSI, American National Standards Institute standards, pruning a fairly large area around power lines to meet the demands of modern equipment. That's because the power lines that deliver today's stronger voltages are more sensitive to trees, wind, and other external elements. As a rule, our tree care experts create ten feet of clearance alongside power lines, with fifteen feet of clearance above and all woody brush and small trees are removed from beneath the lines. By cutting and pruning to these clearances, this should keep your tree limbs away from our lines for about seven years. Our crews will likely return to re-prune trees in five to seven year cycles.

When line clearance work is complete, our crews remove branches and brush from your property and leave behind all substantial wood for your use (as required by law).

You can help us minimize tree-related outages and ensure the beauty of your landscape through thoughtful planting of new trees. Trees planted along your property's border should either be low growing shrubs or tall and narrow trees, planted at least 30 feet from power lines. Spreading trees, such as maples and oaks, are the most common outage-causing culprits and may need to be planted at least 50 feet away from power lines. <End Quote>

Sounds nice in theory, but in practice, I don't think they get out much by us. There's a whole line of brushy, scrubby trees growing right up to the poles, in the ditches, all along the road, under these poles/electric lines. Been there since 1997 (have photo to prove). AND TO BE FAIR, they have millions and zillions of state 2ndary roads, so it's not like they're gonna come around cutting stuff unless there's a problem. So...

So I'm thinking - what am I 'fighting' this for? Stupid of me. Just go ahead, pull out ALL the brushy trees, bushes and burdocks - Leave that western road boundary bare. Let those two front fields be solely for pasture, hay, and the Home Garden, that's a total of about 7 acres. Move the blueberries, strawberries to the Mid farm area, i.e. the next set of twin fields to the east, which has it's own natural windbreak provided by a 100' swathe of mixed hardwood, pines, apples and such. Duh....

[kwendt]

And warped? Some sites are telling me that zone 4a is May 15th, May 23, June 10th. Go figure. So I don't know. lol. It's cold and windy up on the ridge. I'll just figure 'the end of May'...

[SwampDonkey]

If your transplanting from local wild ones you have no worries about frost. Bring something north from the south any significant distance and you have frost hardiness troubles. When you go to Lowes and see a wide spread zone hardiness say from zone 4-7, you better hope it came from zone 4 and not 7 if your in northern Maine. Trees are a little different than annual crops on fields, they have to survive year around. ;)

[kwendt]

If your transplanting from local wild ones you have no worries about frost. Bring something north from the south any significant distance and you have frost hardiness troubles. When you go to Lowes and see a wide spread zone hardiness say from zone 4-7, you better hope it came from zone 4 and not 7 if your in northern Maine. Trees are a little different than annual crops on fields, they have to survive year around. ;)

Same with blueberry bushes/strawberry plugs. I so agree with you, SD. I don't use big box stores for plants. I'll pull them off my own land first if I can. Or there is a nursery up in Presque Isle, one in Caribou, one in Bridgewater that has a few things I'll be looking for. I'll likely want zone 3 grown stuff, since we're up on that ridge saddle. It's colder/harsher in the winter and might cross the line into zone 3, not just zone 4a. Besides, nature tends to know what grows best and where... I should pay attention.

[SwampDonkey]

Your ahead of the 8 ball.  ;D

[kwendt]

Your ahead of the 8 ball.  ;D

Errrr, don't you mean.... "numb'r than a pounded thumb"???? . Too funny. I Give! I Give!

[SwampDonkey]

Crazier than a bag of hammers maybe.  ;D

[kwendt]

Crazier than a bag of hammers maybe.  ;D

.... as a loon!