Cedar Logs?

[Jeff]

So, I can't really stand still any longer.  Many times beenthere posts something and people think he is just opinionated. Who is this guy they think?  He never pullls out his card, and hardly any of you know this, and he may even have a problem with me telling you, but I'm going to do it anyhow because I just hate it when his posts don't get the respect they deserve.  Kent is retired from the USDA Forest Products Laboratory.  One of the things that the Forest Products Laboratory does is test utility poles in every way imaginable.  He knows what he is talking about.

[pabst79]

This thread has produced lots of information, that I wasn't aware of before  , the idea of logs is that it would span the 270' of riverbank he has to cover in a more economical manner than all the other ideas people have suggested. Baskets, riprap, concrete etc, would work great, but also are very expensive. As a side note, for years I worked a stone's throw away from the USDA Lab that Jeff speaks of, I don't miss the traffic  ;D.

[Larry]

Kent is retired from the USDA Forest Products Laboratory.  One of the things that the Forest Products Laboratory does is test utility poles in every way imaginable.  He knows what he is talking about.

Well I knew that.  I hope you don't think I was referring to Kent when I made my post.  Actually I was thinking about the past actions of a certain presidential candidate.

I do know Bell Labs tested pole treatments every which way and published volumes of tests made on every treatment known.  I also know none of the treatments we used could be hazardous to ground water per Bell Labs test. 

[Jeff]

Nope, it wasn't Larry.

[John Mc]

Beenthere -

My apologies if my post in this thread seems argumentative or confrontational.  I have a lot of respect for your opinions. I've been on here long enough to know that you are not one of those internet blowhards that thinks they know everything at a glance.  You always seem to know what you are talking about.

The articles I posted were not meant to be proof of the source of contamination (they are basically a local news outlet looking to make a story out of something). I put them up there because I first read your remark as saying "it didn't happen at all". The article links were to show that this wasn't one of those "internet legends" or a case of "my wife's uncles best friend once heard about a guy who..." type story.

I saw this happen, know the the homeowner and the local expert personally (she has a doctorate in this field, and has companies as her clients helping them deal with similar problems. If she had the reputation as someone out looking to bash the "big bad corporations", she would not have most of her clients.) I worked with her on a town committee for about 5 years, and trust her judgement.

I'm well aware of the knee-jerk enviro-nut reaction to issues like this (we have plenty of that here). I'm also well aware of the knee-jerk reaction that often happens from the other side as well, dismissing any environmental concern as a bunch of fringe lunatics with nothing better to do (and no, I'm not implying you are part of that group). Having been in the middle of this, it's clear this was not just a matter of someone with an ax to grind or an issue to publicize. This surprised a lot of people, but the conclusion seemed pretty clear (at least to me as a layman in the field). There was not a lot of push back from anyone involved. The only real controversy I recall is over what type of equipment and tests were going to be used to monitor the results.  If you are interested, I'll see if I can get my hands on copies of the technical documents that came out of the investigation. (I'm not sure if the landowner eventually agreed to non-disclosure or not, but it seems there should be some sort of public documents available.)

[LeeB]

Was there any soil removal done?

[CJennings]

I remember the natural gas pipeline construction in VT was temporarily shut down because of the soil contamination issue from the poles. Even if that chemical is normally safe when properly used, something went wrong somewhere because there was PCP contamination.

[Phorester]

We've done numerous streambank stabilization projects in Virginia over the years, using mostly low cost, "natural" labor intensive methods like these:



Notice these are installed on sloping banks. If it's a vertical bank, it must first be sloped with heavy equipment. These also require maintenance every few years or after every high water event.

However, I feel there are places where only rock, gabions, etc., are the best solution. Especially along big streams and rivers where there is a tremendous water flow and pressure against the banks.  Here's one to show how it can look years after installation.  More expensive to install, but no maintenance whatsoever needed. New vegetation softens the harsh look of bare rock after several years.



I would suggest that his idea of just putting in logs probably will not work over the long haul. I'd recommend your friend explore his particular bank and stream situation and stabilization methods needed for his particular situation.