Future Timber frame

[KjBarnwood]

I am hoping to build a timber frame home in about 3 years.  I would like to cut the beams my self, but I have a few questions. 

Is it ok for me to cut the beams, 1-2" over dimension, and leave them air dry for 3+ years?

I was thinking of using Hemlock, N. White Pine, or White Oak - any problems with those? What about Red Oak?  I'd like big beefy beams - 14"x14"

How clear do the beams have to be? Knots etc?

Thanks
Keith

[Dave Shepard]

In my opinion, you should try to cut your joinery ASAP. Woods work their best when green. Red oak will probably check quite a bit in three years, in fact a friend of mine had all his joinery done and stacked for a few years and there was a lot of checking in red and white oak. They were able to use the timbers, but there was a lot of refitting of tenons that had split. Hemlock is known for splinters, so you may not want that in a living area.


Dave

[Brad_bb]

If I were you (and I was 1.5 years ago), I would first take a week long introductory timber framing course.  When I took the foxmaple course (foxmaple.com), I learned about the wood, selecting the timbers and placement of joinery.  I would not saw any timber for your project until you have learned the basics in what to look for. 
   Second, I would not recommend cutting timbers until you know what sized you will need.  So in other words, have the design of your house in hand and the joint stress calculations done so that you have determined what size timbers you will need.  Size is greatly dictated by the design of the structure and how much load is on each joint.  I say this because I have collected some reclaim (at good prices) and now I'm thinking that now all the sizes will be useful in my frames.  Additionally, I may end up with more waste than if I'd ordered the correct size timbers to start with.  Those good prices may not be so good if you end up with material you can't use or scrap you create.  You have to then go back and recalculate how much you paid versus how much you used and that is how much you actually paid.  It may work out that ordering new material from the start would have cost the same and been less running around.
   Third, joinery can be cut into seasoned wood.  There are advantages and disadvantages.  Advantage: the beams are pretty stable and once cut, you can store it withough much fear of movement.  Disadvantage:  Green wood is easier to cut than seasoned wood.  How much easier?  You'd have to test it your self.  I made some bunkbeds with seasoned White oak using timberframe techniques.  It didn't seem bad at all, but once you have to do it on a larger scale and many more joints, I wonder how much harder it would be?  Using power tools to hog out material would be much different, it might even be a bid easier.  It the fine chisel work that might be a little toiugher(not having the lubrication of the green wood).
    Fourth, Are you experienced with drying timbers like oak to minimize checking?  Oak and Hemlock are more known for checking.  Will the natural checks interfere with the joinery if placed after seasoning?  Maybe.  Would cutting the joinery first influence how/where the checks form?  Not sure myself as I do not mill.  I have found beams there were seasoned and have checks that may interfere with joinery.

[Jim_Rogers]

Is it ok for me to cut the beams, 1-2" over dimension, and leave them air dry for 3+ years?

Personally, I think it's a waste of time to season timbers. And it's a lot of work to resize them later. It wastes wood and time.

I was thinking of using Hemlock, N. White Pine, or White Oak - any problems with those?

No problem using any of these.

What about Red Oak?

Fine wood to use in a timber frame.

How clear do the beams have to be? Knots etc?

Grade #2 or better. Download a rule book section and read up on the allowed defects for grade #2 and apply them to your timbers.


Jim Rogers

[Don P]

I certainly prefer to work with fully seasoned material. It has shown the defects that will occur during drying. I would prefer to make all cuts in seasoned material, a 45* cut made above 28%mc in a timber will become a 46 or 47* angle when that timber gets to 12%mc. A 45* angle cut in a 12% timber is still mighty close over the rest of time. Joint slop, especially at drop in dovetails, twist, etc all show themselves more as the wood dries. If a check appears in a face, I might be able to rotate it out of view.

Wood is roughly twice as strong and hard to work with hand edge tools dry as opposed to green, it is half as heavy to move around though. You will lose timbers to drying defects, as likely as not you will lose timbers you would have regretted.

[KjBarnwood]

Thanks for the info guys!  I bought my mill for reclaiming barnwood only, but I am getting an ich for cutting new wood.

I won't be able to build for a least 3 years, and I have been recieving some nice logs lately for free.  I really don't have the time to market them, so I wa hoping to cut them into beams and in a few years I'd have enough for the house frame.

I use Amish to help me with the barn dissembly, and they have built quite a few timber frames before, so I thought I get them to build it for me.  Based on a good set of blue prints.

Will it be a problem to have beams at various stages of drying?  Should I consider making a small log home camp?

Keith

[Brad_bb]

Don,
Intersting point about the angle.  Maybe that means a compromise could be had with seasoned brace stock only and cut the joinery seasoned?  I actually have a bunch of rough sawn oak brace stock seasoning now as I do plan to cut the joinery in them once dry/stable so that they don't change after cutting and storing them.  I will plane and sand them before cutting jointery too.  The idea is to be able to cut the braces ahead of time and have them ready(and not drying and moving).  I also have some reclaimed beech beams that I will try to use for posts (not certain cause design is not finished yet).  What's cool is that they were from a grainery and have no joinery in them-solid.

[matt eddy]

I just finished cutting some timbers for a frame that were white oak, 15 yrs old.  they were dry and very unpleasant to work.  they also moved a lot in 15 yrs and i had to get a bunch re-sawed to get the cup and bow out of them.  They do however look really good now that they are done!  My next advice is to have a timber frame plan before you start.  the oak i just cut was bought by the owner, who had no idea what the frame would look like, he saw a bargain and is now kicking himself.  So know exactly what you need for timbers than when your ready to start working on them order them!  I work with people similar to your situation.  My "business goal" as a independent timber framer is to work with home owners or new-be's to the timber framers world hand and hand to get their frames done.  if your interested in hiring someone to teach/train you while cutting your home give me a shout.  email me at eddymatt84@yahoo.com.  i do travel throughout new england and am fully insured. 
matt

[beenthere]

matt eddy
I looked in your gallery, hoping to see some pics of your work. We like pics... ;D ;D

Your work sounds interesting.

[matt eddy]

ill try to add some!  been working on a web page, but im kinda dumb with these computers!
matt

[Dave Shepard]

Posting photos
Let us know if you need any help.

Dave

[matt eddy]

can't figure out how to add pics to my forum profile.  send me a email and i can send some your way!
matt

[Jim_Rogers]

Click on this link and read:

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,23851.0.html

[Dave Shepard]

matt eddy, they go in your photo gallery. Have you tried the link in my or Jims post? (link to same topic) When making a post you can click on "Upoad or insert photo?" and it will take you to the upload page. It is just below the post window.


Dave