I just got around to uploading some pictures taken during a selective harvest of Black Walnut and a couple Cherry trees last year at our land in west-central Illinois. Prices for Black Walnut were at record levels at that time and have gone up even higher since then. Many of these logs were veneer quality. The main property where most of the trees were cut had not been harvested in recent history since my family owned the land (40+ years).
There's not enough discussion on this site about the happenings in the midwest forest industry, so I thought I would contribute my share. Hope you enjoy!
http://www.teraprom.com/forest-products/2011-timber-harvest
We cut a few a few walnut tress on our last job. Some brought over $4 a bd foot, the biggest which was 34 feet long & 18" inches on the small end. This was in western KY.
Wow ... logging that close to a brook that wide plus dragging a tree across the brook with the skidder would likely land you in front of a judge around here and be facing some lovely fines.
Some nice trees there and nice to see only the trees that were mature being taken. Those tops will make nice firewood. My parents sold 4 walnut trees a couple years ago and we made the tops into firewood came to about 3 cords as they had big limbs. Some really pretty firewood burned well when dry maybe not as nice as oak but well enough. Cherry is good firewood as well.
Anyone notice the barberchair and stump pull on some stumps?someone needs a good sawyer.
Quote from: saltydog on June 11, 2012, 04:16:17 PM
Anyone notice the barberchair and stump pull on some stumps?someone needs a good sawyer.
Missing some safety equipment as well ....
Quote from: Jamie_C on June 11, 2012, 11:33:15 AM
Wow ... logging that close to a brook that wide plus dragging a tree across the brook with the skidder would likely land you in front of a judge around here and be facing some lovely fines.
I can't speak for every state since since their laws are all different, but in the southeastern United States, you don't commit offense unless you actually damage the water quality. BMPs (Best Management Practices) in my region allow for the harvest of up to 50% of the crown cover within an SMZ (Streamside Management Zone). Skidding is allowed across SMZs, but BMPs require that you cross in as few locations as possible, avoid blocking the stream flow during skidding, and clean out the crossing when it is retired. It doesn't appear that anything asca65290 did would necessarily violate any BMPs for our area, nor does it appear that it should cause any degradation of water quality, provided that due diligence was used in the harvesting process. Nova Scotia must have very restrictive logging regulations.
Nothing like cutting nice walnuts :D see theres plenty of sap wood here in Ohio they scale only the dark wood so sap wood kills me ! Growing on wet bottom ground they grow fast so thats part of a walnut the sap wood ;D But like other fellows have said learn how to swing the heart out and you cut flat clean stumps, pulled wood like that is a no no also with veneer dealers. But still some nice logs thanks for scharing Bill
Nice links and great photos (former Terain Analyst for the Army lots of hours studying aerial pics of Russia), thanks for sharing.
Ironwood
Quote from: Dodgy Loner on June 11, 2012, 05:20:12 PM
Quote from: Jamie_C on June 11, 2012, 11:33:15 AM
Wow ... logging that close to a brook that wide plus dragging a tree across the brook with the skidder would likely land you in front of a judge around here and be facing some lovely fines.
I can't speak for every state since since their laws are all different, but in the southeastern United States, you don't commit offense unless you actually damage the water quality. BMPs (Best Management Practices) in my region allow for the harvest of up to 50% of the crown cover within an SMZ (Streamside Management Zone). Skidding is allowed across SMZs, but BMPs require that you cross in as few locations as possible, avoid blocking the stream flow during skidding, and clean out the crossing when it is retired. It doesn't appear that anything asca65290 did would necessarily violate any BMPs for our area, nor does it appear that it should cause any degradation of water quality, provided that due diligence was used in the harvesting process. Nova Scotia must have very restrictive logging regulations.
On a brook that size we would have a 20m SMZ (no machines within 20m of bank and i believe 20sqm/ha of basal area must be maintained). For us to even consider crossing a brook with a machine you need to have permits from Dept. of Environment, proper bridges, tarps to put under the bridges, logs to enclose the middle of the bridges and to put alongside the bridges. If you want to skid anything across a brook it would be much easier to just shoot yourself and get it over with. There is basically a 0 tolerance for any streambed disturbance of any kind let alone potential skidding damage to the stream banks.
Quote from: Jamie_C on June 12, 2012, 07:44:12 AM
Quote from: Dodgy Loner on June 11, 2012, 05:20:12 PM
Quote from: Jamie_C on June 11, 2012, 11:33:15 AM
Wow ... logging that close to a brook that wide plus dragging a tree across the brook with the skidder would likely land you in front of a judge around here and be facing some lovely fines.
I can't speak for every state since since their laws are all different, but in the southeastern United States, you don't commit offense unless you actually damage the water quality. BMPs (Best Management Practices) in my region allow for the harvest of up to 50% of the crown cover within an SMZ (Streamside Management Zone). Skidding is allowed across SMZs, but BMPs require that you cross in as few locations as possible, avoid blocking the stream flow during skidding, and clean out the crossing when it is retired. It doesn't appear that anything asca65290 did would necessarily violate any BMPs for our area, nor does it appear that it should cause any degradation of water quality, provided that due diligence was used in the harvesting process. Nova Scotia must have very restrictive logging regulations.
On a brook that size we would have a 20m SMZ (no machines within 20m of bank and i believe 20sqm/ha of basal area must be maintained). For us to even consider crossing a brook with a machine you need to have permits from Dept. of Environment, proper bridges, tarps to put under the bridges, logs to enclose the middle of the bridges and to put alongside the bridges. If you want to skid anything across a brook it would be much easier to just shoot yourself and get it over with. There is basically a 0 tolerance for any streambed disturbance of any kind let alone potential skidding damage to the stream banks.
From the website:
QuoteThis one needed to be winched across the creek.
I took that to mean that they used a winch to pull the tree across the creek, rather than crossing the creek with the skidder itself. But in any case, it definitely sounds like the BMPs in my area are much less restrictive than in your area.
I speak for all of us in Illinois when i say we Plead the Fifth! My questions is; Where are your walnut markets because as far as i know they are in the toliet, not going up.
Quote from: Dodgy Loner on June 12, 2012, 05:03:39 PM
Quote from: Jamie_C on June 12, 2012, 07:44:12 AM
Quote from: Dodgy Loner on June 11, 2012, 05:20:12 PM
Quote from: Jamie_C on June 11, 2012, 11:33:15 AM
Wow ... logging that close to a brook that wide plus dragging a tree across the brook with the skidder would likely land you in front of a judge around here and be facing some lovely fines.
I can't speak for every state since since their laws are all different, but in the southeastern United States, you don't commit offense unless you actually damage the water quality. BMPs (Best Management Practices) in my region allow for the harvest of up to 50% of the crown cover within an SMZ (Streamside Management Zone). Skidding is allowed across SMZs, but BMPs require that you cross in as few locations as possible, avoid blocking the stream flow during skidding, and clean out the crossing when it is retired. It doesn't appear that anything asca65290 did would necessarily violate any BMPs for our area, nor does it appear that it should cause any degradation of water quality, provided that due diligence was used in the harvesting process. Nova Scotia must have very restrictive logging regulations.
On a brook that size we would have a 20m SMZ (no machines within 20m of bank and i believe 20sqm/ha of basal area must be maintained). For us to even consider crossing a brook with a machine you need to have permits from Dept. of Environment, proper bridges, tarps to put under the bridges, logs to enclose the middle of the bridges and to put alongside the bridges. If you want to skid anything across a brook it would be much easier to just shoot yourself and get it over with. There is basically a 0 tolerance for any streambed disturbance of any kind let alone potential skidding damage to the stream banks.
From the website:
QuoteThis one needed to be winched across the creek.
I took that to mean that they used a winch to pull the tree across the creek, rather than crossing the creek with the skidder itself. But in any case, it definitely sounds like the BMPs in my area are much less restrictive than in your area.
Your interpretation is correct. It was winched across the creek with the skidder in a stationary position, rather than crossing the creek with the skidder to get the log which would have caused much more damage.
Quote from: craigc on June 12, 2012, 09:13:20 PM
I speak for all of us in Illinois when i say we Plead the Fifth! My questions is; Where are your walnut markets because as far as i know they are in the toliet, not going up.
I have a friend who is a logger and he has been selling black walnut like hotcakes up through March of this year for very good prices. Haven't talked to him in the last couple of months so I'm not sure how it is at this very minute. And, where is the market? China.
You may want to talk to your friend I don't think he would be so upbeat. Just have to hope it comes back this fall.
Quote from: craigc on June 12, 2012, 11:01:38 PM
You may want to talk to your friend I don't think he would be so upbeat. Just have to hope it comes back this fall.
I did just that. He said the market for Black Walnut sawlogs had deteriorated but the market remained strong for veneer quality logs. I don't have any logs to sell at the moment anyway.
When I left ILL the BMP's were suggestions. They were based on western state templates. As a professional I took it on my self to promote wise management. A rule written in one area may not be applicable in another, or practical. it is our responsibility to manage our private lands well.
it was nice to see the big walnuts and cherry. I have not seen spur cuts since I left.
Quote from: woodtroll on June 14, 2012, 12:56:22 AM
When I left ILL the BMP's were suggestions. They were based on western state templates. As a professional I took it on my self to promote wise management. A rule written in one area may not be applicable in another, or practical. it is our responsibility to manage our private lands well.
it was nice to see the big walnuts and cherry. I have not seen spur cuts since I left.
I'm going to show my ignorance here a little. Can someone please explain the purpose of a spur cut? I've always been curious about why loggers do this.
Wow! :o If those are veneer logs I am a rich man 8) ::)
Got to agree with previous post. If you find someone who pays veneer prices for those post it here. I would like to sell some.
I could see some defect in the bark of that cherry, did a forester inspect the trees before they were cut, how were they determined to be veneer?
I had a tough time seeing any veneer in those photos, and while I'm at it, how much you want to bet a year or two from now those photos will be gone, the link will be invalid and this topic will be worthless. I was gone up north sawing logs, so this topic got by me without a warning about off site images. asca65290, if you would, for the benefit of your fellow and future fellow members, please upload the photos to the forestry forum gallery and place the photos in your first post so this topic will be of interest in the future. Thank you.
What did these "veneer" logs average per foot?
Quote from: Jeff on June 14, 2012, 06:34:01 PM
I had a tough time seeing any veneer in those photos, and while I'm at it, how much you want to bet a year or two from now those photos will be gone, the link will be invalid and this topic will be worthless. I was gone up north sawing logs, so this topic got by me without a warning about off site images. asca65290, if you would, for the benefit of your fellow and future fellow members, please upload the photos to the forestry forum gallery and place the photos in your first post so this topic will be of interest in the future. Thank you.
Jeff, I'd be more inclined to listen to you if you didn't insult me and my company in the first sentence of your message. And I'll take that bet with you if you're willing to stand behind it (which I doubt you will be). You might want to read my bio on my website if you think my credibility is lacking.
How in the world is the first line an insult? I said I had a hard time seeing any veneer in the photos? That was eluded to by others way before I said it. I've spent most of my entire working life sawing logs, so my opinion has a little bit of validity behind it. I probably should have used better punctuation and use of smiles. I meant no offense. I was tired when I posted from being gone from home for several days.
I apologize now to you for my not taking sufficient time to write a post that would not offend you, yet let you know that we have rules pertaining to the sharing of photos so that the Forestry Forum content maintains its integrity for years to come. Rules that apply to everyone. People with the best intentions delete content from websites. It happens all the time.
Quote from: Jeff on June 15, 2012, 10:21:04 AM
How in the world is the first line an insult? I said I had a hard time seeing any veneer in the photos? That was eluded to way before I said it. I probably should have used better punctuation and use of smiles. I meant no offense. I was tired when I posted from being gone from home for several days.
I apologize now for my not taking sufficient time to write a post that would not offend you, yet let you know that we have rules pertaining to the sharing of photos so that the Forestry Forum content maintains its integrity for years to come. Rules that apply to everyone. People with the best intentions delete content from websites. It happens all the time.
I was not referring to the veneer part, but the suggestion that my company and website would not be around in a year or two. Anyway, apology accepted and we can move on.
Quote from: tyb525 on June 14, 2012, 06:14:32 PM
I could see some defect in the bark of that cherry, did a forester inspect the trees before they were cut, how were they determined to be veneer?
A few of you have commented about whether these logs are veneer quality or not. The way it worked is that a forester and I walked the woods, determined which trees we thought were mature and ready to be harvested and those logs were marked. A logger cut the marked trees and they were assembled for buyers to look at and bid on. They were sold to the highest bidder (from Iowa) and were hauled off. Not all of those trees were veneer quality, of course, but a number of them were.
Again I'm sorry, I in no way was referring to the company or the website, just the photos. I didn't even know it was your website. Just that it was offsite of the forum server. Time and time again, people simply remove content from websites because they feel it is dated, to make room for more, or inadvertently. My concern is always for the Forestry Forum.
Quotethe suggestion that my company and website would not be around in a year or two
And that can be taken as a challenge to think on, not an insult. ;)
Talk is easy, but walking that walk is what we hope works for you.
From the pics shown, and the mistakes made by whoever dropped the trees, there is a lot to be learned from them and I for one hope it goes well for you (especially the learning part so it can be done safely).